WEBVTT 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:24.140 Hello and welcome back to the Business Abundance 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:28.760 Podcast. I am here with Rowan and Ian. Hello. 00:00:29.019 --> 00:00:33.280 Hello. And we're talking today about the motivation 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:38.039 of employees and how we can I guess help employees 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:43.060 and also help yourself to get the best output 00:00:43.060 --> 00:00:46.259 of your employees. How can we all achieve more? 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:49.240 And also we're going to have a quick little review 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:51.539 in there of if you're a micromanager. So you 00:00:51.539 --> 00:00:55.219 can ask yourself some questions. Look yourself 00:00:55.219 --> 00:00:57.000 in the mirror. I wish we could have like a little 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:59.359 live thing here and we put your hand up. If you're 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.280 a micromanager, we can't. We should start filming 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.280 this. Maybe just think to yourself, do you think 00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:06.200 you're a micromanager? Yes or no? There's no 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:08.680 maybes. There's no 80 % says you are, you aren't. 00:01:08.780 --> 00:01:10.060 I wonder how many people would honestly say, 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.840 yes, yes, I'm definitely a micromanager. Or no, 00:01:12.939 --> 00:01:14.680 and then they're going to think later. So, you 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:16.879 know, just think about that. Yes or no, lock 00:01:16.879 --> 00:01:22.260 that in and we'll see you later. Review at the 00:01:22.260 --> 00:01:27.189 end of this podcast. Keeping in mind the book 00:01:27.189 --> 00:01:31.069 that most of our conversation is based off is 00:01:31.069 --> 00:01:33.769 drive the surprising truth about what motivates 00:01:33.769 --> 00:01:38.829 us by Daniel Pink and he explores the science 00:01:38.829 --> 00:01:42.510 behind motivation and challenges of How people 00:01:42.510 --> 00:01:46.310 are driven in the traditional sense I guess and 00:01:46.310 --> 00:01:50.590 he talks about it being based on autonomy mastery 00:01:50.590 --> 00:01:56.040 and purpose so Rowan Out of those three, which 00:01:56.040 --> 00:02:01.239 one do you think best suits you? I don't think 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:04.840 there is a... I'd say all three, to be honest. 00:02:05.379 --> 00:02:08.759 I like to improve, which is mastery, and feel 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:11.960 like I'm better than things that I was before. 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:14.620 Then their purpose is important. I don't like 00:02:14.620 --> 00:02:16.539 to do things for no reason. I don't like to do 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:19.479 things that I don't like. Or for people I don't 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:23.250 like. And autonomy. Yeah, I'd like to be in control 00:02:23.250 --> 00:02:24.889 of my own destiny. I don't have to be in control 00:02:24.889 --> 00:02:26.409 of everyone, but I like to be in control of what 00:02:26.409 --> 00:02:28.909 I'm doing. So yeah, it's probably all three for 00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:32.490 me, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. Um, he also talks, 00:02:32.490 --> 00:02:35.030 I guess, on a second layer, being you're either 00:02:35.030 --> 00:02:38.370 motivated by external rewards, like bonuses, 00:02:39.729 --> 00:02:45.270 uh, or the fear of punishment. So there's two 00:02:45.270 --> 00:02:48.250 layers. The stick or the carrot. Yeah. Yeah. 00:02:48.650 --> 00:02:51.020 Probably more of a stick. I'm just processed 00:02:51.020 --> 00:02:53.680 for elimination there, like am I motivated by 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:56.840 punishment? No. No, probably anti -motivated. 00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:59.439 So I must be the other one. The carrot. Yeah. 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:01.580 Even though I don't really feel like the carrot, 00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:05.800 but. Sometimes carrots are delicious. Cook them 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:08.719 up with a bit of sugar. Uh, yeah, it changes. 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:13.860 Uh, as you, as, as you, as us Gen X's not quite 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:18.939 boomers. Um. As you get a bit older, your motivations 00:03:18.939 --> 00:03:22.860 change and I would have said when I was younger 00:03:22.860 --> 00:03:25.719 that autonomy was very important to me. I wanted 00:03:25.719 --> 00:03:30.120 to be in control of my own destiny while also 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:32.479 being told what to do. I worked in a few factories. 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:40.039 But purpose is a big motivator for me with a 00:03:40.039 --> 00:03:43.590 family and having the freedom. Having the freedom 00:03:43.590 --> 00:03:46.310 to work on projects that I think are making a 00:03:46.310 --> 00:03:51.750 difference is a massive motivator for me, almost 00:03:51.750 --> 00:03:54.490 beyond motivation and going into inspiration. 00:03:58.289 --> 00:04:01.090 I guess if you could identify that better, do 00:04:01.090 --> 00:04:02.729 you reckon you could improve your performance 00:04:02.729 --> 00:04:07.750 at work? I think undoubtedly. If you're inspired 00:04:07.750 --> 00:04:13.280 to work by your job, I've probably said it before, 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:16.459 but motivation needs to be topped up and inspiration 00:04:16.459 --> 00:04:19.839 comes from within and is always going to be there. 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:23.060 So find something that inspires you. Whereas 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:25.420 motivation generally does need a stick or a carrot. 00:04:27.899 --> 00:04:31.480 So find a happy medium in a workplace. And then 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:36.000 if you are motivated and repeatedly motivated 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:38.660 by whatever it takes to motivate you, I imagine 00:04:38.660 --> 00:04:40.870 you're going to be a much better employee. Um, 00:04:41.269 --> 00:04:44.089 but if you're inspired, the world's your oyster. 00:04:44.589 --> 00:04:48.290 Yep. Yeah. Outside of this podcast episode, I 00:04:48.290 --> 00:04:51.589 guess we were talking about autonomy in the workplace. 00:04:52.009 --> 00:04:55.750 And generally you can say that you can give people 00:04:55.750 --> 00:04:57.930 autonomy and they'll work better. But Rowan, 00:04:58.050 --> 00:05:00.730 you were mentioning that some people don't want 00:05:00.730 --> 00:05:03.680 autonomy. It's actually. the exact opposite of 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:06.300 what they want. Yeah. So if we look at autonomy, 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:08.899 that's just been self -directed, basically, the 00:05:08.899 --> 00:05:11.000 ability to choose what you're doing. What were 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:15.639 the three things, Z? Mastery. I know for autonomy, 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:18.120 so I was like, sort of choose your task, how 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:20.639 you do your task and when you do your task. I 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.600 think was what you were saying. So for a lot 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.259 of people like me, that's 100 % what I'm looking 00:05:26.259 --> 00:05:29.529 for. And then I think you're similar, Z. And, 00:05:29.529 --> 00:05:31.430 um, you know, various people and probably in 00:05:31.430 --> 00:05:32.889 our organisation, it's probably more that way. 00:05:33.610 --> 00:05:36.910 But then you've also got people that don't want 00:05:36.910 --> 00:05:39.370 to make the decision. So they might be fantastic. 00:05:39.410 --> 00:05:41.689 They might be super clever. They might do a fantastic 00:05:41.689 --> 00:05:44.089 job, but they want to be told what to do, when 00:05:44.089 --> 00:05:46.009 to do it and how to do it. Because then they 00:05:46.009 --> 00:05:48.430 can go take, I did my job and go home. They can 00:05:48.430 --> 00:05:53.569 also, uh, psychology of sales stuff from many, 00:05:53.569 --> 00:05:57.290 many moons ago back when I was a boy. People 00:05:57.290 --> 00:05:58.689 do want to be told what to do because then they 00:05:58.689 --> 00:06:01.149 don't have to think. Most people are quite lazy 00:06:01.149 --> 00:06:04.910 thinkers. So from a sales perspective, the sales 00:06:04.910 --> 00:06:06.689 process is, I'm going to tell you about the product, 00:06:06.769 --> 00:06:08.589 I'm going to answer the questions that you have. 00:06:09.589 --> 00:06:11.569 Now it's time to buy, sir, so please hand over 00:06:11.569 --> 00:06:14.509 your credit card. It's amazing how many salesmen 00:06:14.509 --> 00:06:18.430 don't ask for the sale or tell the person that 00:06:18.430 --> 00:06:21.560 it's time to buy. We've covered all your objections. 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:23.839 We've covered all the risk now It's time to buy 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.300 and the person feels more comfortable and sometimes 00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:28.160 that feels awkward as a salesperson when you're 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:30.480 first starting out But then when you do it you 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.639 go, actually people do really want to be told 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.240 what to do So we're talking again before mr. 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:37.480 Pink and what's his first name? Daniel and Daniel 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:42.879 Pink talking about he can be motivated by Autonomy 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:47.100 or purpose or mastery? So let's say you're motivated 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:52.110 by purpose you autonomy might be the direct opposite 00:06:52.110 --> 00:06:56.089 of that. So I'm looking to learn stuff, do things, 00:06:56.149 --> 00:06:58.189 you know, be sort of stimulated. That's fundamentally, 00:06:58.189 --> 00:07:01.410 you know, I want some, something going on. I 00:07:01.410 --> 00:07:03.949 think most people do, but is that with their 00:07:03.949 --> 00:07:07.230 family at home or is that at work? So some people 00:07:07.230 --> 00:07:09.350 are professional, like they want that sort of 00:07:09.350 --> 00:07:11.290 thing. Some people want it to be in sporting 00:07:11.290 --> 00:07:13.310 context or a hobby or whatever that is. Some 00:07:13.310 --> 00:07:15.290 people might be the family. So then if you're 00:07:15.290 --> 00:07:16.870 telling them to use all their brain power, make 00:07:16.870 --> 00:07:19.019 all the decisions, do everything. blah, blah, 00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:21.759 blah, at work, that's actually stopping them 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:24.160 from having go home and enjoy the family, which 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:25.839 is what they want to do. Play with the grandkids. 00:07:25.899 --> 00:07:28.819 Only got so much bandwidth. Yeah. So that's in 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:32.600 a case where, you know, picking the right motivator, 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:34.899 um, you know, could be autonomy is great and 00:07:34.899 --> 00:07:36.399 always sounds great for everyone. But at the 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:38.120 end of the day, what are they actually prioritizing 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.379 their limited amount of time and brainpower for? 00:07:42.100 --> 00:07:44.519 Um, still do a good job. They might be the person 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:46.100 at home that has to make all the decisions and 00:07:46.100 --> 00:07:47.779 they go to work to get away from that. Yeah. 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:51.060 So I think like the three categories to me, I 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:53.720 haven't read the book, but I think apply to everyone, 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.939 but it's not in a work context. So it might be 00:07:57.939 --> 00:08:00.500 picking that in the work context. Yeah. Let's 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:05.560 focus on autonomy in the work context now. So 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.899 it talks about employees being able to have control. 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:13.339 over four aspects in their work, which is task, 00:08:13.579 --> 00:08:16.560 what they work on time when they work technique, 00:08:16.639 --> 00:08:19.579 how they approach it and team who they work with. 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:23.300 So having control over these makes them feel 00:08:23.300 --> 00:08:26.480 empowered and makes them feel as though they 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.860 are having a meaningful contribution. I say makes 00:08:29.860 --> 00:08:32.200 them feel like that seems like it's just a bit 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.960 of us versus them in control of their own destiny. 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:41.139 Well, yeah, it does mean that they will end up 00:08:41.139 --> 00:08:43.480 with greater creativity because they're given 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:48.559 the flexibility and they're able to figure out 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:51.860 what works best for them, which likely will end 00:08:51.860 --> 00:08:53.899 up in a better outcome. Do you think that could 00:08:53.899 --> 00:08:58.019 be a positive of the recent pandemic? Well, it's 00:08:58.019 --> 00:08:59.700 probably not recent anymore. It's four years 00:08:59.700 --> 00:09:03.120 ago. But people were forced into an autonomous 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.799 situation in their workplaces where Okay, you're 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:12.179 working from home now or students were having 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:14.899 to learn from home and there's one thing I learnt 00:09:14.899 --> 00:09:17.500 that teenagers and pre -teens aren't very good 00:09:17.500 --> 00:09:21.059 at autonomously doing their schoolwork without 00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:22.759 someone standing in front of the classroom saying, 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.500 you need to do this. And at the end of the day, 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:31.100 we're all just grown up children. Some of us 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:33.700 grow up quicker than others. Some of us take 00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:39.100 50 years and still aren't grown up. But a lot 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:45.700 of people had to adapt to, here's my day. I didn't 00:09:45.700 --> 00:09:49.179 clock in today. I woke up and now I have to do 00:09:49.179 --> 00:09:53.580 my job. And then now we're seeing a lot of businesses 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:55.480 are trying to call their workforces back into 00:09:55.480 --> 00:10:00.179 the office. I think you said Amazon. And there's 00:10:00.179 --> 00:10:02.100 a bit of pushback because people have had that 00:10:02.100 --> 00:10:06.759 freedom to design their work days. or not do 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:09.480 their work days as well. Well, that too. But 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.100 those that were successful in an autonomous situation, 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.100 you may see that there'll be some movement in 00:10:18.100 --> 00:10:20.559 the workforce. You want me to now do this when 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:24.059 I'm really good at doing it like this? I don't 00:10:24.059 --> 00:10:27.779 know if I want to work like that anymore. I think 00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:31.940 the autonomy is quite an interesting one because 00:10:31.940 --> 00:10:34.360 you can get people that are very good at it and 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:36.990 people that are very bad at it. but we're talking 00:10:36.990 --> 00:10:39.929 about micromanagement at the same time. So if 00:10:39.929 --> 00:10:42.389 we're looking at it from that point of view, 00:10:44.929 --> 00:10:47.870 what's stopping you from letting people be autonomous 00:10:47.870 --> 00:10:50.370 in your business? I think that would be the question 00:10:50.370 --> 00:10:53.409 that Amazon would need to ask is, have we had 00:10:53.409 --> 00:10:55.529 a drop in productivity because people are working 00:10:55.529 --> 00:10:58.870 from home and then measure it after they bring 00:10:58.870 --> 00:11:03.710 people back into the office? Some valuable metrics. 00:11:05.289 --> 00:11:08.289 they can measure against there. So I think why 00:11:08.289 --> 00:11:10.149 would a business owner not want people to be 00:11:10.149 --> 00:11:12.610 autonomous? Is it the question they're asking? 00:11:12.970 --> 00:11:14.789 Is it they don't trust their employees to do 00:11:14.789 --> 00:11:16.549 it or they feel like something will go wrong? 00:11:16.809 --> 00:11:19.730 Yeah. And is that the conclusion that your employers 00:11:19.730 --> 00:11:22.429 would jump to straight away? Yeah, it might go 00:11:22.429 --> 00:11:25.190 wrong. Now I'm afraid if I do it, I might get 00:11:25.190 --> 00:11:27.110 it wrong and then I'll be in trouble or the business 00:11:27.110 --> 00:11:31.090 will be in trouble. Not so much I. So, you know, 00:11:31.190 --> 00:11:34.840 with a business, a small business, they sort 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:36.240 of stay small because there aren't systems and 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:38.299 processes to be repeated to make sure that things 00:11:38.299 --> 00:11:40.019 go right. And we've talked about that in the 00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:42.460 past, but I think there's a bit more to that. 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:45.519 The more you think about it, which is not necessarily 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:47.139 systems and processes, because a small business 00:11:47.139 --> 00:11:49.279 has that. If you look at a lot of big businesses, 00:11:49.299 --> 00:11:50.960 they have the systems of process and the training, 00:11:51.019 --> 00:11:53.139 but it's a piece of paper with a dot points on 00:11:53.139 --> 00:11:55.240 it. There's a fair bit of interpretation to have 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.019 it. And that goes to someone who's been in the 00:11:57.019 --> 00:11:58.519 role for a week and then they start doing the 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:02.409 job. So what's the difference there? I think 00:12:02.409 --> 00:12:04.830 in the small business is that the owner is a 00:12:04.830 --> 00:12:06.990 micromanager, whether they sort of see themselves 00:12:06.990 --> 00:12:11.570 as or not, and they require that, oh, this might 00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:13.870 go wrong, it might cost me $500, I need that 00:12:13.870 --> 00:12:17.529 $500, or I'm the business owner, I need to know 00:12:17.529 --> 00:12:19.570 what's happening, it's my business, so I tick 00:12:19.570 --> 00:12:22.409 boxes. So they're not actually letting people, 00:12:23.129 --> 00:12:25.149 what's the four things in autonomy you mentioned 00:12:25.149 --> 00:12:29.830 before? It's about task, time, technique, team. 00:12:30.090 --> 00:12:33.250 Yep. So I'm not letting that person decide all 00:12:33.250 --> 00:12:35.870 of those things. I'm having input at some stage 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:39.570 or all stages of that and then suddenly my business 00:12:39.570 --> 00:12:42.429 can't grow because I'm becoming an essential 00:12:42.429 --> 00:12:45.769 cog in all wheels. It'd be safe to say that if 00:12:45.769 --> 00:12:47.970 you can't have a six month holiday and not touch 00:12:47.970 --> 00:12:51.929 base with your business and the business collapses, 00:12:53.090 --> 00:12:56.710 you're probably a micro manager. Not necessarily 00:12:56.710 --> 00:12:57.850 true. You might have a role in that business. 00:12:57.929 --> 00:12:59.830 So you could be the business owner and the salesperson. 00:12:59.919 --> 00:13:04.419 Yeah, because we all have jobs too. But I think, 00:13:04.700 --> 00:13:07.139 yeah, if you have some key people leave and you 00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:09.379 can't replace them in your business, then you 00:13:09.379 --> 00:13:16.860 probably, yeah. So I think if we're talking about 00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:23.419 micromanaging, mentioned it before, but you're 00:13:23.419 --> 00:13:26.320 afraid of things going wrong, but potentially 00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.799 you're stopping a lot of things from going right. 00:13:31.650 --> 00:13:34.549 and you're stopping a lot of growth. And innovation? 00:13:35.190 --> 00:13:36.190 Yeah, which is something I've been trying to 00:13:36.190 --> 00:13:40.710 work on. So I did a coaching course for cricket 00:13:40.710 --> 00:13:42.769 and they showed wicket keepers, wicket keepers 00:13:42.769 --> 00:13:45.149 catch the ball, Ian's a wicket keeper, a bit 00:13:45.149 --> 00:13:47.129 of an old one now, but you know, still, yeah. 00:13:47.490 --> 00:13:50.509 So they catch the ball and it showed at five 00:13:50.509 --> 00:13:52.929 people from international level, so top of their 00:13:52.929 --> 00:13:55.789 game, you know, very successful and showed their 00:13:55.789 --> 00:13:57.730 techniques and they all look completely different 00:13:57.730 --> 00:14:01.230 to the eye. like completely different and so 00:14:01.230 --> 00:14:03.429 when we teach things this is how you do it this 00:14:03.429 --> 00:14:05.169 is how I've done it you should do this and this 00:14:05.169 --> 00:14:06.570 and this and oh this step you did a little bit 00:14:06.570 --> 00:14:08.610 wrong correct and so whether that's with a child 00:14:08.610 --> 00:14:11.309 or with a with a person or with an employee whatever 00:14:11.309 --> 00:14:16.149 that's generally how we teach um and they broke 00:14:16.149 --> 00:14:18.409 it back down to a few things so you've got to 00:14:18.409 --> 00:14:21.029 at all times be able to see the ball so if someone's 00:14:21.029 --> 00:14:22.649 in your way what do you do you move your head 00:14:22.649 --> 00:14:24.049 doesn't matter where you move no you just need 00:14:24.049 --> 00:14:25.610 to be able to see the ball and you need your 00:14:25.610 --> 00:14:26.870 hands to be able to touch the ground and stay 00:14:26.870 --> 00:14:30.320 low at all times and then I can't remember what 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.379 the last one was, hands out in front of you so 00:14:32.379 --> 00:14:34.240 that when the ball hits it you can cushion it 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:36.240 and catch it instead of fumble it. That was pretty 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:37.840 much the... and then when you look back at the 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:40.580 five pictures they all had those things. But 00:14:40.580 --> 00:14:42.440 looked drastically different. Massively different. 00:14:42.899 --> 00:14:45.279 So outcomes are more important than process. 00:14:45.460 --> 00:14:47.440 Yes and at various times they're all best in 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.000 the world. Yep. So if we think about how we teach 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.879 things often we are this is how we do it here 00:14:54.169 --> 00:14:56.909 do this this this this to the nth degree but 00:14:56.909 --> 00:14:59.750 can you break that back into some three or four 00:14:59.750 --> 00:15:02.649 core things that think about that larger business 00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:05.289 they have the tick box you know yeah it's pretty 00:15:05.289 --> 00:15:08.769 basic but they're allowing that person to make 00:15:08.769 --> 00:15:14.549 it put their mark on it as a wicket keeper i 00:15:14.549 --> 00:15:17.289 think you've just created the ultimate metaphor 00:15:17.289 --> 00:15:19.649 for success in business by using wicket keepers 00:15:19.649 --> 00:15:24.700 and we are quite amazing well done And then I 00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:27.539 have a couple of other stories, but... About 00:15:27.539 --> 00:15:30.639 Wikipedia? No. Oh, I'm bored now. Just in different 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.840 sort of frames, but I think it helps you think 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.320 about the concept. But my son, two and a half 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.200 years old, had a conversation with me the other 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.019 day, and so it wasn't the whole dad juice, you 00:15:42.019 --> 00:15:44.080 know, or I'd like some orange juice, please, 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.500 and that sort of conversation. He's sitting there 00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:51.159 and he goes, Daddy, what's that noise? The only 00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:53.000 thing, the only noise was the shower. So I said, 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:55.519 Dad, Mum's in the shower. Yeah, both of us. Mum's 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.320 in the shower. He just ignored me. Two minutes 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.720 later. Daddy, what's that noise? It's the shower, 00:16:02.179 --> 00:16:06.059 buddy. Ignored me again. Two minutes later. Daddy, 00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.840 what's that noise? So it was raining. So, okay. 00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:12.720 Do you mean the rain? Ignored me. And then another 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:14.840 two minutes goes by. Daddy, what's that noise? 00:16:15.980 --> 00:16:17.980 Thinking about it and I'm trying to personally 00:16:17.980 --> 00:16:20.980 get out of people's way. and not tell people 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:27.379 what to do. I said, you tell me. He's Bailey 00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:30.399 farted. So he's been like for a two and a half 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.320 year old sitting on that for 10 minutes. But 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.940 so now I learnt that he can actually have a conversation. 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.440 He can go, I'd like to talk about this. He had 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:38.799 a little bit of a sense of humour. That was a 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.320 bit of abstract as well. And you know, most parents 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.740 and me as well on that example, just answer the 00:16:45.740 --> 00:16:48.779 question. And then they keep asking and you keep 00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:51.429 answering. But if we just get out of the way, 00:16:51.429 --> 00:16:54.610 what happens? He's learning how to impart his 00:16:54.610 --> 00:16:57.009 knowledge on the world. Yeah. And if we keep 00:16:57.009 --> 00:16:59.970 answering those questions. Correct. We stifle 00:16:59.970 --> 00:17:04.869 that. And then another example from a sports 00:17:04.869 --> 00:17:07.690 club, which is probably more business related. 00:17:08.190 --> 00:17:10.869 Wiki keepers? No, no, no. So that's personal 00:17:10.869 --> 00:17:14.349 performance. But, you know, obviously run a business 00:17:14.349 --> 00:17:16.309 that helps businesses do things. So I know a 00:17:16.309 --> 00:17:19.400 couple things. about how to do things in certain 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.180 ways but um there's two two young guys for both 00:17:22.180 --> 00:17:25.599 18 running a program at the club and um they're 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:27.940 really keen to get a lot of people there so you 00:17:27.940 --> 00:17:30.779 know i could seriously help with that um but 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:32.619 i thought oh we'll see how they go let them be 00:17:32.619 --> 00:17:34.640 in charge they'll reap the rewards they'll learn 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.240 something and this is the junior program it's 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.500 junior but for you know four to seven year olds 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:45.869 young youngs anyway so once really really keen 00:17:45.869 --> 00:17:47.789 he's like I'd like to like to market this more 00:17:47.789 --> 00:17:49.470 than last year and I like to do this what's her 00:17:49.470 --> 00:17:51.809 budget $300 what can we do can we do this so 00:17:51.809 --> 00:17:53.470 you can do whatever you want I'll help you but 00:17:53.470 --> 00:17:55.230 just you know tell me what you want to do now 00:17:55.230 --> 00:17:57.849 you're in charge and so he wanted to do a social 00:17:57.849 --> 00:17:59.690 media post he said we're gonna take a photo of 00:17:59.690 --> 00:18:02.890 us and that photo is gonna be big and then I'm 00:18:02.890 --> 00:18:04.369 gonna have I'll send you the words I want on 00:18:04.369 --> 00:18:06.369 it but that's we want that posted up on social 00:18:06.369 --> 00:18:09.809 media and it's gonna be great so I've taken a 00:18:09.809 --> 00:18:11.589 photo of two eight -year -old guys with dirty 00:18:11.589 --> 00:18:13.789 mustaches you know you and I were talking about, 00:18:13.930 --> 00:18:16.269 I'm thinking, appearance with small children, 00:18:16.869 --> 00:18:19.509 like, how's this appealing to them? And you're 00:18:19.509 --> 00:18:21.769 saying that with your filter? Oh, 100%. Yep. 00:18:21.930 --> 00:18:24.410 Yep. So if I was putting XYZ system and procedure 00:18:24.410 --> 00:18:26.509 in, you know, I understand engagement, I understand 00:18:26.509 --> 00:18:28.470 this, yeah, authenticity and all that sort of 00:18:28.470 --> 00:18:30.849 stuff. Right. But like, no, it's fine. They're 00:18:30.849 --> 00:18:33.349 in charge. We're doing it their way. The sky's 00:18:33.349 --> 00:18:35.710 not going to fall if we post this. Not at all. 00:18:35.849 --> 00:18:39.730 it'll be fine. We'll see how it goes. So anyway, 00:18:40.589 --> 00:18:42.730 the week before we had a big club function and 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:44.950 it was season launched. There was a hundred people 00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:48.390 there. This is the premier of the state, the 00:18:48.390 --> 00:18:51.609 mayor. So it was pretty big. A professional photographer 00:18:51.609 --> 00:18:53.589 there taking photos of people and it was nice. 00:18:53.890 --> 00:18:56.109 There were photos, portraits of a lot of club 00:18:56.109 --> 00:18:58.309 members, old and young. And obviously when that 00:18:58.309 --> 00:19:00.150 goes up on social media, you get a lot of engagement, 00:19:00.349 --> 00:19:02.690 people tagging, sharing and seeing faces they 00:19:02.690 --> 00:19:05.690 hadn't seen for a long time. So that's... Everyone 00:19:05.690 --> 00:19:07.490 gets the warm and fuzzies. Yeah, like that's 00:19:07.490 --> 00:19:10.410 a pretty big standard good engagement social 00:19:10.410 --> 00:19:12.450 media post. So that had been up for a week by 00:19:12.450 --> 00:19:15.750 the time we posted this little flyer with their 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:19.730 face on it. And in 12 hours it had more views, 00:19:19.829 --> 00:19:22.549 impressions and engagements than the photos did 00:19:22.549 --> 00:19:26.490 in a whole week. And I wouldn't have expected 00:19:26.490 --> 00:19:30.769 that. They didn't know anything about what was 00:19:30.769 --> 00:19:33.230 going on, but they had rough guidelines and they 00:19:33.230 --> 00:19:35.690 achieved an outcome that they can now use for 00:19:35.690 --> 00:19:40.349 the rest of their life and great example. And 00:19:40.349 --> 00:19:43.589 what could have happened if you you weren't able 00:19:43.589 --> 00:19:45.529 to step back there and go oh I don't think this 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:46.910 is going to work I think we better do it a different 00:19:46.910 --> 00:19:48.529 way. Might have been better might have been worse. 00:19:48.670 --> 00:19:51.279 Yeah exactly. but yeah we will never know and 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.220 everyone was involved and now they're like oh 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:54.680 how many people we've got registered i've got 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:56.579 this and i'm really keen to get more people there 00:19:56.579 --> 00:19:58.460 but if i was taking control they wouldn't be 00:19:58.460 --> 00:20:00.180 keen to do it but like oh we want more people 00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:03.079 what can we do so you've given them you've empowered 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.539 them they have ownership of the program and autonomy 00:20:05.539 --> 00:20:09.920 and autonomy and probably purpose yeah and they 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:12.859 get to enjoy that yeah so that's a relatively 00:20:12.859 --> 00:20:16.650 young age yeah Anyway, I talked a lot there so 00:20:16.650 --> 00:20:19.690 sorry for my voice but that was you asking about 00:20:19.690 --> 00:20:22.970 my thoughts on autonomy and I think there's three 00:20:22.970 --> 00:20:24.829 examples there that they're completely different 00:20:24.829 --> 00:20:27.210 but come back to that core if you don't know 00:20:27.210 --> 00:20:28.509 what's going to happen until you get out of the 00:20:28.509 --> 00:20:30.549 way. I was going to say the highlight for me 00:20:30.549 --> 00:20:32.509 was how you turned Wicked Keepers into a metaphor 00:20:32.509 --> 00:20:34.430 but actually the highlight is how you worked 00:20:34.430 --> 00:20:36.789 your son farting into an awesome story for the 00:20:36.789 --> 00:20:44.920 podcast. So good. There's lessons everywhere. 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.720 Who knew? He had a sense of humour and he could 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:50.000 carry conversation. He is quite eloquent. Smart 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.380 kid. Does that answer your question, Zee? It 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:55.339 does, always. What was the question? So we're 00:20:55.339 --> 00:21:00.799 looking at if people need to... Can they recognise 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:05.079 if they are a micromanager, essentially? And 00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:08.579 we've got some points. We went around the table, 00:21:08.619 --> 00:21:10.859 didn't we? We sort of thought that people probably 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:14.200 couldn't. Yeah. Yeah, probably couldn't recognise 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:15.819 that they are micromanagers. Quick show of hands, 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.259 who said yes they are? Not I. I have a few so 00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:20.839 I'll let you finish my hand, but yeah, maybe 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.819 in some areas of life. Yeah, it's definitely 00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:26.700 like we all have things that we are and not like, 00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:28.680 I can think about lots of things on micromanaging, 00:21:29.019 --> 00:21:33.839 micromanaging half the podcast. But there's things 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.990 that we always like, our comfort zone. We like 00:21:36.990 --> 00:21:39.009 things done in a certain way because we're human. 00:21:39.369 --> 00:21:41.630 I'm not just going to hand over money to someone 00:21:41.630 --> 00:21:44.849 and be like, oh yes, have free reign. Yeah, correct. 00:21:45.930 --> 00:21:48.150 There's just some things that obviously you want 00:21:48.150 --> 00:21:51.589 to know details about. However, if we're looking 00:21:51.589 --> 00:21:56.890 at getting the best out of your employees, there's 00:21:56.890 --> 00:21:58.819 some things you shouldn't be doing. essentially, 00:21:59.019 --> 00:22:02.339 like being involved in every single detail or 00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:05.759 not delegating tasks. There's some tasks you 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.279 can hold on to because you don't feel comfortable 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.119 handing that responsibility over to people. But 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:14.539 if you've employed them to do it, then... Let 00:22:14.539 --> 00:22:15.859 them do it, get out of the way. And if they can't 00:22:15.859 --> 00:22:17.559 do it, if you literally can never trust anyone 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:19.019 with anything, then you employ the wrong people. 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:21.480 And that could be a mindset thing as well. So 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:23.420 you might not be able to trust them yet. They 00:22:23.420 --> 00:22:25.299 might not be quite there yet, but if you've got 00:22:25.299 --> 00:22:27.440 that open mind to say that person actually could 00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.000 do this, I just need to refine that a little 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.339 bit. Yeah, you can slowly transition them into 00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:35.019 that role. But if you're sitting there feeling 00:22:35.019 --> 00:22:38.539 anxious when you're not in control, something's 00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:40.599 not quite right. That might be a you problem. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.519 Make a list of what would need to change for 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:46.019 me to be able to do that. That's a really good 00:22:46.019 --> 00:22:48.859 idea. So everything's possible. The world's a 00:22:48.859 --> 00:22:50.539 big place. Lots of people achieve a lot of things. 00:22:50.819 --> 00:22:52.940 Just what would need to change for me to feel 00:22:52.940 --> 00:22:55.339 differently about that and then work on that. 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.839 Yeah. Yeah. The same, I guess this is reflecting 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:02.619 on the story you're told about the guys with 00:23:02.619 --> 00:23:04.900 the social media posts. You need to focus on 00:23:04.900 --> 00:23:08.319 how you can't focus. I'm losing my voice now. 00:23:08.539 --> 00:23:13.519 You can't focus on how tasks are done. Yeah, 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:15.940 you've got to look at the outcome. So set those 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:18.420 guidelines. But the question is to ask yourself, 00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:21.440 should you figure out if you're a micromanager? 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:25.119 Do I trust my team to get their work done without 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:29.200 constant input? So if you're unsure of your team's 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:33.640 abilities or need to step in often, you might 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.299 be micromanaging. If you find yourself giving 00:23:38.299 --> 00:23:43.019 specific tasks, so very detailed tasks on how 00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:45.819 to do something, You're not letting your team 00:23:45.819 --> 00:23:48.900 figure out their own approach because you want 00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:53.519 things to be done your way. This can be suffocating 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:56.539 for the people trying to get something done. 00:23:56.900 --> 00:23:59.940 How annoying is it when someone says, can you 00:23:59.940 --> 00:24:01.579 pick this up and can you just grab that? Make 00:24:01.579 --> 00:24:02.880 sure you don't do that on the way when you've 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:08.799 done it a hundred times. Yeah, like you can sit. 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.180 That's why processes exist but when I encourage 00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:14.220 people to make processes I always say give it 00:24:14.220 --> 00:24:16.259 to the person who's going to be doing it because 00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:19.700 they'll tell you if it's realistic or not. You 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:22.319 can set the expectations of how you want things 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.180 to be done, how clean you want the area to be 00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:28.740 but let them figure it out. It's a fine line 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:31.240 between here's a process and here's me teaching 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:36.400 you how to suck eggs. You have to allow for some 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:39.339 common sense and I know that the people older 00:24:39.339 --> 00:24:42.160 than me still maintain that common sense died 00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.700 with their generation. But it's out there and 00:24:46.700 --> 00:24:48.839 the kids coming through are the same as we were. 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:53.680 You just need to find it. They've still got common 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:56.180 sense. Get out of the way. Exactly, get out of 00:24:56.180 --> 00:24:56.660 the way. You mentioned that when we were talking 00:24:56.660 --> 00:24:58.960 before and you said your son, like, you know, 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.559 he doesn't know how to use utensils and you're 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:02.259 always on to him about that, but he's got a job 00:25:02.259 --> 00:25:06.640 now. Yep. Yeah, he's in fast food, which is a 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.869 perfect example of autonomy and systems and processes. 00:25:11.589 --> 00:25:14.869 Anyone who's seen the founder, the Ray Kroc story, 00:25:15.230 --> 00:25:18.289 McDonald's, they started out as massive micromanagers. 00:25:18.349 --> 00:25:20.269 It had to be done this way. The burgers will 00:25:20.269 --> 00:25:23.069 be flipped at X amount of minutes. You'll be 00:25:23.069 --> 00:25:26.309 making the fries at X amount of minutes and the 00:25:26.309 --> 00:25:30.289 temperature will be X amount of degrees. And 00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:32.470 then you will move like this and this is exactly 00:25:32.470 --> 00:25:34.799 how it will happen. And then that developed into 00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:38.279 processes which then developed into a seamless 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:43.480 automation of a process that used to take half 00:25:43.480 --> 00:25:46.339 an hour to make a burger was done in a minute. 00:25:47.019 --> 00:25:49.779 And now that's replicated and duplicated across 00:25:49.779 --> 00:25:53.720 the entire world that if you walk into a burger 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:58.259 franchise it will be done the same here in Tasmania 00:25:58.259 --> 00:26:02.319 as it will be done in New York. and you can teach 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.640 a 14 year old kid to do that and he will still 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.980 feel autonomous once he knows how to do his job. 00:26:08.610 --> 00:26:11.329 You talk about, you know, they have logic and 00:26:11.329 --> 00:26:13.569 old fellas and ladies don't think that kids these 00:26:13.569 --> 00:26:15.910 days have logic. But going to the utensils thing, 00:26:16.009 --> 00:26:17.930 when you said it, I may be thinking, it's like, 00:26:18.529 --> 00:26:19.890 well, you know, what are we doing? We're telling 00:26:19.890 --> 00:26:21.109 them they need to use the utensils, we're showing 00:26:21.109 --> 00:26:22.509 them how to use the utensils, but he keeps not 00:26:22.509 --> 00:26:23.970 doing it. But it's probably logical to him because 00:26:23.970 --> 00:26:26.289 he doesn't know why, like it still works. So 00:26:26.289 --> 00:26:27.769 he hasn't had a reason to do it your way. It's 00:26:27.769 --> 00:26:29.569 still ending up in my mouth. Yeah, he's like, 00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:30.950 why should I do it your way? It doesn't make 00:26:30.950 --> 00:26:33.180 sense. So that is the logic fundamentally. Yeah, 00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:35.619 absolutely. And I guess the thing is to find 00:26:35.619 --> 00:26:38.500 a way to let that person learn this is why you 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.900 do it this way and come to that conclusion themselves. 00:26:41.380 --> 00:26:44.619 Anyone? Sometimes I just feel good that I can 00:26:44.619 --> 00:26:46.180 look at him and go, God, you're an idiot. You're 00:26:46.180 --> 00:26:50.599 not an idiot on the floor. Yeah, exactly. I've 00:26:50.599 --> 00:26:52.359 still got something I do better than you, son. 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:57.480 Sorry, Z. Are you frequently stressed about project 00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:01.740 details that other people are handling? So if 00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:06.259 you feel you need to detail everything. I guess 00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:07.779 that's the thing that's going through my mind. 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.440 You can set expectations, but don't set expectations 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.240 for how you open your laptop and then how you 00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:16.339 turn it on and then how to, like that, that's 00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:18.460 micromanaging. That will drive you barmy. Level 00:27:18.460 --> 00:27:20.599 off from that. You give me someone. to manage 00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:23.579 a project, the project manager, and then you're 00:27:23.579 --> 00:27:25.000 getting involved in how that project's managed. 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:27.740 So that's well past, how do you open your laptop? 00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:28.940 And it's like, okay, what have you got? Have 00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:30.339 you done this? Have you looked in the, can you 00:27:30.339 --> 00:27:31.759 show me the project? Like you've got to get, 00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:33.660 well, that's your project. If you've given them 00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:38.269 that responsibility means they're capable. So 00:27:38.269 --> 00:27:39.990 you don't give to someone that's not capable. 00:27:40.289 --> 00:27:41.630 So they let the other way because they'll make 00:27:41.630 --> 00:27:43.690 some mistakes and you've got to let people make 00:27:43.690 --> 00:27:46.410 mistakes and people are okay when mistakes happen. 00:27:46.529 --> 00:27:47.970 So they get fixed. But if you're not letting 00:27:47.970 --> 00:27:50.430 that person make a mistake, then fix that themselves. 00:27:50.609 --> 00:27:51.710 They're not going to learn to do that in the 00:27:51.710 --> 00:27:53.670 future. Yeah. And are you still getting the outcomes 00:27:53.670 --> 00:27:57.190 when you do step back? Yeah. There's the two 00:27:57.190 --> 00:28:00.049 scores of thought. Like you don't fall to the 00:28:00.049 --> 00:28:02.009 top of a mountain in success. Like you don't 00:28:02.009 --> 00:28:03.430 take the helicopter up. You have to climb the 00:28:03.430 --> 00:28:05.029 mountain. So the process is the most important 00:28:05.029 --> 00:28:09.339 part. But At the same same token, there's more 00:28:09.339 --> 00:28:11.960 than one way up the mountain Some people might 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:13.880 find if they walk around the side of the mountain. 00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.480 There's an elevator And now we're up the mountain 00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:20.700 a lot quicker You could even look at that as 00:28:20.700 --> 00:28:22.539 the mountain is just one of those key things 00:28:22.539 --> 00:28:23.759 here, right? You've got to walk up the mountain 00:28:23.759 --> 00:28:26.200 Yeah, but how you fit enough to get up the mountain 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:28.220 everyone would do that different way. Yep So, 00:28:28.220 --> 00:28:29.680 you know, you don't have to get that involved. 00:28:30.059 --> 00:28:33.200 Can that help you then as a potential micromanager 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:35.160 to step back and go? Okay, what's the outcome 00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:39.720 we desire here? Joe blogs over there and Mary 00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:41.420 blogs over there are gonna get to the outcome 00:28:41.420 --> 00:28:43.400 in two different ways and that's perfectly okay 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.960 And it's not my way so set expectations on the 00:28:46.960 --> 00:28:49.900 outcome not necessarily the process and key milestones 00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:53.720 Yeah, and and the final question is how often 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.839 do I give feedback on the process first the outcome? 00:28:57.160 --> 00:29:01.720 So if you're not Yeah, yeah same thing expectations 00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.579 on the outcome not the process. So if you figure 00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:09.140 out that you are a micromanager, if you started 00:29:09.140 --> 00:29:11.519 this podcast and said, no, no, not a micromanager, 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.859 but then you're like, oh yeah, no, definitely 00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:17.079 a micromanager. Micromanaging tendencies. Yes, 00:29:17.299 --> 00:29:19.160 micromanaging tendencies. If you've been sitting 00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:20.920 here listening to this podcast and going, geez, 00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:23.180 I would have done that differently, you're probably 00:29:23.180 --> 00:29:28.259 a micromanager. So you need to set clear expectations 00:29:28.259 --> 00:29:32.180 for outcomes and take a step back. That will 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.119 Feel very anxiety provoking and I know it's kind 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.859 of contradictory to the fact that we talked about 00:29:39.859 --> 00:29:45.059 in earlier Conversation about are you stressed 00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.859 about project details? You will be stressed when 00:29:47.859 --> 00:29:49.960 you set clear expectations for the outcome and 00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:53.720 not involved in the process So that will be a 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:56.230 bit contradictory, but it will wear off when 00:29:56.230 --> 00:29:59.390 you see that the outcome is not as terrible as 00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:01.369 you expected it to be without your input. And 00:30:01.369 --> 00:30:02.630 you'll find a lot of people do things better 00:30:02.630 --> 00:30:05.109 than you anyway. Especially if you've employed 00:30:05.109 --> 00:30:07.230 them to do that job. Get out of their way and 00:30:07.230 --> 00:30:11.529 let them do it. Delegate the tasks fully. So 00:30:11.529 --> 00:30:15.130 start with small tasks because it will feel overwhelming 00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:18.400 and gradually... Delegate to larger projects 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:20.819 and this doesn't have to happen over two days. 00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:24.000 It can happen over months Any progress is good 00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.819 progress. Just a brief one on that overwhelm. 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:28.680 So you got that overwhelms good. I mean a lot 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:32.519 of people look at that Overwhelm was being a 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:39.529 pain pain point and anxiety causing have a look 00:30:39.529 --> 00:30:41.930 at that from a different lens and go, can that 00:30:41.930 --> 00:30:43.369 overwhelm what I'm feeling right now or that 00:30:43.369 --> 00:30:46.289 anxiety I'm feeling right now is actually my 00:30:46.289 --> 00:30:52.769 brain resisting some change. And if I can embrace 00:30:52.769 --> 00:30:56.490 that, I'm creating new neural pathways. So it's 00:30:56.490 --> 00:30:58.509 not just a benefit to my business, it's a benefit 00:30:58.509 --> 00:31:03.089 to me as a person. You're growing. Getting that 00:31:03.089 --> 00:31:06.589 mastery. You're in the mastery, 100%. That was 00:31:06.589 --> 00:31:09.170 a good segue. She's something segwaying like 00:31:09.170 --> 00:31:13.250 crazy. Focus on feedback and development and 00:31:13.250 --> 00:31:18.329 encourage your team to make decisions. And then 00:31:18.329 --> 00:31:21.710 at the end, just regularly reflect on your management 00:31:21.710 --> 00:31:24.789 style because you will fall back in. I say you 00:31:24.789 --> 00:31:28.630 will, but likely. No, they will. You'll fall 00:31:28.630 --> 00:31:30.410 back. Everyone will. There's always improvement. 00:31:30.490 --> 00:31:32.950 We all do. There's always times you'll look at 00:31:32.950 --> 00:31:35.670 something and learn more. Don't gloss over the 00:31:35.670 --> 00:31:39.059 feedback either. The number one reason a customer 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:42.000 leaves a business is apathy. They feel like you 00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:43.880 don't care anymore. And the number one reason 00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:47.619 that employees leave a business is apathy. If 00:31:47.619 --> 00:31:49.640 someone's doing a good job, and they're doing 00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:51.240 it differently to you, but they're doing a good 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:54.480 job, let them know. You don't need to give them 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:57.359 $5 an hour extra. You can simply say, thanks, 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.440 you're doing a great job. And people will come 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:05.539 back. Yeah, so I guess... When you employ people, 00:32:05.859 --> 00:32:08.640 allow them to do their jobs, do give them the 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.700 autonomy, recognise that they are capable, that 00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:15.180 you employed them because they are capable, and 00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:19.000 if you find yourself slipping into some micromanaging 00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.180 tendencies with these people, recognise that 00:32:21.180 --> 00:32:25.279 they won't find that very comfortable. And slap 00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:28.450 yourself. You're only hurting yourself. If you 00:32:28.450 --> 00:32:30.329 want some freedom, if you want a successful business, 00:32:30.349 --> 00:32:33.369 if you want it to work when you're not directly 00:32:33.369 --> 00:32:35.289 involved in everything, if you want people to 00:32:35.289 --> 00:32:38.430 enjoy going there, then get out of the way. It's 00:32:38.430 --> 00:32:39.890 okay to get it wrong while you're doing that 00:32:39.890 --> 00:32:43.509 as well because you're changing things. If you 00:32:43.509 --> 00:32:45.170 are one of the people that started this podcast 00:32:45.170 --> 00:32:47.130 and said, no, no, there's no way I'm a micromanager, 00:32:47.250 --> 00:32:50.329 and then you're like, oh, actually, maybe I am. 00:32:50.829 --> 00:32:54.549 That's the first step of an amazing self -reflection 00:32:54.549 --> 00:32:57.640 moment. And it's not an easy thing to do. And 00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.539 then when you start to try and change things 00:32:59.539 --> 00:33:02.480 for yourself, to try and grow, you're going to 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:04.900 get it wrong. And guess what? It's okay to get 00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:08.420 it wrong. It's okay to fail. It's okay to fail. 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.400 As long as you're failing forwards. There's an 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:12.299 old saying, I can't even remember who said it. 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:14.319 It's probably someone like a Zig Ziglar. Fail 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:20.599 forwards, fail often. It's... Don't take things 00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:22.720 so seriously like, you know, you fail at school 00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.079 when you fail tests and you fail learning this, 00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:27.759 you fail to cook the pavlova, you fail with this, 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:29.380 blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, if you play 00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:31.240 sport, how many times you fail on that all the 00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:32.680 time, but you're just always learning and getting 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:35.480 better. So if you're not failing, you're not 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:39.839 trying anything new. So grow, people, grow. God 00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:45.259 damn it. Good luck All right, we'll wrap it up 00:33:45.259 --> 00:33:48.980 here and we'll see you all in the next podcast 00:33:48.980 --> 00:33:49.700 so long