Welcome to the Business Abundance Podcast, providing
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www .businessabundance .online. Hello and welcome
back to the Business Abundance Podcast. I am
here with Rowan and Ian today. Hello. Hello.
And today we're going to be chatting about something
a bit interesting when it comes to understanding
people, but that is about personality types and
how you can work with that in your business.
Everyone obviously has different personalities,
different styles of communication. And I guess
we're going to be talking about this because
that can cause conflict within your business
and it can or personal life or personal life.
But it also serves as a bit of an opportunity
to make that work for your business as well,
whether that be through employment, efficiency
or productivity and also retention. So we're
going to run through a few case studies, whether
we're right or wrong. We're just going to base
these off. Yeah, discuss. Now we're doing this
from the point of view of the way using Enneagram
style. So you might or might not have heard of
them, but essentially it's that you'll find them
all over the internet and there's free tests
you can take. There's a million different types,
but they all land back in the same area. If you
just take a test. Are you put in a box? You do
get put in a box. You can't label me, man. If
you look at one by the Enneagram Institute, you
will be numbered from one to nine. And those,
those different numbers have different personality
types assigned. And it's scored within those
categories as well. All I can think of is that
70s show. I'm not a number, I'm a human being.
You're a five in. You are a five. Both of you
are fives. It was pretty accurate actually. I
didn't want to admit it, but it was pretty accurate.
Yeah, mine was a little different summary I didn't
relate with. But then you look at the strengths
and weaknesses and relate to that. But I was
like a five and an eight with a lot of one. And
then you go put them together and like, yeah,
that's probably fair. Yeah, I was five, eight
and seven I think. Yeah. And it was uncanny.
Yeah, so just had no six and like Z was also
yeah The people who don't understand why we're
talking about numbers like this essentially you
just take a test it talks about your preferences
of communication conflict how you perform tasks
and It will help determine what kind of personality
you have It will label your strengths and weaknesses
how you deal with conflict how you it even puts
you down as With people that you collaborate
better with or who you will feel a lot of tension
with which is particularly interesting should
you go into a great project and. not like someone
even though it's undeserved. You might just grind
up. Why can't I get along with this one person?
It doesn't make sense. They might be the nicest
person. It's amazing how often you're both exactly
the same personality type. Something about myself
I hate about you. If you want to jump on to the
website and just do an Enneagram. Test now and
then you'll have a bit of an understanding. Oh,
yeah hit pause do it now. Yeah, I'll be great
and then you understand I get bit of context
moving forward, but I know it's out forever do
To our best to explain as we go through these
podcast case studies Cool. Yep. The first one
let's just say we've got a Production line employee
who just go back a little bit because I just
want to butt in and be annoying go for it, but
Such a seven thing to do. You're a six. No, you're
a six. So it's probably said several times, like
the number one problem we ever get with people
is like, oh, I've got cash, I've got problems,
I've got no money, whatever, I've got profit.
But the number one problem probably everyone
has, just whether they admit it or not, is people.
I hate those guys. Yeah, you just might not know
you've got a problem because no one tells you.
But there's always stuff going on behind the
scenes that you don't get, you don't understand.
People are fighting, whether that's your friends,
whether that's a club, whether that's a work.
And you've probably come across a person that
just gets people, like, how do you get along
with people? So I just get them, you know, like,
I just can read people really well. I go, how?
And they're like, I just do, I just feel it.
Probably a really good listener. Yeah. And, you
know, I mentioned before that if you want someone
who's good at sales and talking to people, you
need someone that's talked to a lot of people
because they get that experience. But understanding
the personalities that, like you said, it doesn't
matter which way you tackle it or which bit of
methodology, just understanding people are different
and how to interact with them makes a big, big
impact. And then within your team, being able
to go, okay, well, this person's not liking this
or is liking this, or this person has a problem
with this person, understanding who you're talking
to, not just Ian, but this personality, then
it can help both people and you understand like
how to move forward in a way that everyone like
naturally is going to be happy with, not just
logically, okay, I just got to suck it up. When
you're talking about customer acquisition and
retention, which we've covered in podcasts before,
if you know personality types and you have a
little bit of nefarious intent, you can also
manipulate your audience into going, I definitely
need that product. I don't know why, but they'll
have a limbic. purchase as opposed to a cognitive
purchase and then walk out of the store and go,
why did I just buy that? Because you have used,
that's what marketing is at the end of the day,
is utilising the tools that are readily available
to have someone bereft of their senses long enough
to spend some money. Yeah. And we've mentioned
several times before that, you know, marketing
and people, you know, acquiring clients and acquiring
people was similar. And knowing that when I put
an ad out, who am I appealing to? what personality
type is going to love this ad. Just because I
love the detail and all these tech specs about
this product doesn't mean like 100 % of people
do, it's only a quarter. If I make this button
orange on my website you're 90 % more likely
to click buy now. Stuff like that that is behind
the scenes of quality marketing that this is
the tip of the iceberg. But we'll leave it to
you to interpret how you want to but we're just
making you aware that it's not just Some people
get people and some people don't, but there are
ways you can see and get some information and
help you have more intent about what you're doing.
Yeah. I just also want to, probably before we
get into the case studies, explain what kind
of different personality types there are. That'll
be useful. Well, we know there's a five. Yeah,
if we go through the Enneagram Institute, we're
going to... keep it as simple as possible with
four. Yep. Now I... Just for my benefit. Give
it real simple. There's a book. that I would
recommend you read, which is called Surrounded
by Idiots, the Four Types of Human Behaviour.
Written by Zahara. By Thomas Erickson. Zahara
trying to deal with compliance and government
organizations. Or podcasts. You, both of you.
Thomas breaks it down into four, which is distinct
by Colors, which is red yellow green and blue
and moderate this red being dominant and task
oriented yellow being social and enthusiastic
Green being calm and harmonious and blue being
analytical and precise So those are the four
personality types we wanted We're going to discuss.
Yeah, we're going to discuss. Help skip context.
I'm going to introduce them a different way as
well. Because there's more. Things with the personality
test, everyone's done their own reason and they've
all got their own names for it, so I'm just going
to say some words and they're going to be different
to yours. Let's run with yours. They're exactly
the same thing. A dove is peaceful, a peacock
showy and people flashy, ours wise. So that's
your detail orientated. Yep. And then an eagle
is bold, you know, so they're the same four things.
Yeah, the categories are the same. We use different
words. It's still the same categories. Yep. There's
a heap of personality tests that have been out
there for the best part of half a century that
have been used for that half a century. And They
kind of get a refresh every five years or so
and someone will come along and they'll rebrand
it as peacocks and birds or they'll regroup.
Take my test for $10. Exactly. You can do it
for free though. Yes, always free. And the information
that came out of that short enneagram that we
did before the podcast today is some of the better
information that I've seen and businesses used
to pay consulting firms $1 ,200 to profile their
employees when you can just get it done for free
now. Yep. Yeah, good way to make money, just
approach your local not -for -profit and sell
them personalities for everyone. Easy way to
make 25 grand. That's a business there. Hang
on. Moving on. So. Case studies. So let's say
we have a production line employee who is constantly
unhappy and we'll let that be known to anyone
who listens. Cool. So everyone's probably had
someone like that in their life. work or not
and we don't have that person here so we don't
know exactly what they're thinking but um we
can assume they're unhappy yeah every behavior
has a reason yep so if they're speaking out about
how unhappy they are yeah they're trying to communicate
something cool I'm gonna be the unhappy employee
so cool you two can bring me in for a quick chat
if you like we should probably fire that guy
Fire him. I think we should learn about it. Ask
him why he feels the way he does. So Rowan, we
hear you're unhappy and you're letting your employees
or your co -workers know. Can I ask what is the
root cause of this? I'm just sick of it. Like
it's the same thing every day. Come in, do my
job, go home. Like what's the point of being
here? Like I've got to do it for the money. Did
you think the job was going to be something different
when you applied for it? But what do you want
me to do? Like come in and just move this thing
along? You're so much more confrontational. I
was going to turn around and be like, I hear
that you don't like repetitive tasks. You're
like, so what did you expect? It's like you're
a production line employee. Can I please be performance
managed by Z? No, good example of different personalities
there. Right then though. But yeah, no, I'm just
like, what do you want me to do? It's boring.
Do you want me to clap, but I can't, but I've
got to move things along the line. Can you make
it more fun for me? Can I ask why you applied
to this position? What attracted you to this
position? I just needed a job. And I'm doing
my job though. I'm hitting on my targets. Perfect.
It's like he's perfect for the ride. So you probably
need a little bit more mental stimulation. Is
that what I'm hearing? Yeah. make my life better
how how would you like us to accommodate that
in an ideal world if if cost was no issue how
could we achieve that in your role can we get
like some more music or like just stuff like
more people around or you know it's just pretty
much we're ahead like our earmuffs on and there's
no one near me it's boring like can we just have
something like would job rotation help Well,
actually a bit of variety would be better. It's
all the same thing. Absolutely. It's fine working
here, need for the money, but it's just boring.
Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is that you need,
you need like remove ourselves from that conversation,
but what you are asking for is a change in environment
from Just doing the same old thing over and over
and over again. That's the personality type that
we're looking at. And for someone who is, who
enjoys different things like music, different
stimulation, that that's probably not the role.
Even if we did add music or add other people,
the main issue is that you're doing the same
thing over and over again. And if we were to
look at your personality type without doing any
sort of test, it would be. Social and enthusiastic.
You're a creative person. Which is a pretty key
point to make actually because your numbers are
still up according to the little role play that
we did. So you're still doing your job. You've
indicated that the reason you're here is because
you need the money. And there are times in your
life where, okay, I've just got to do the crappy
job. to get by. I'm telling everyone because
I'm a talkative person. So potentially, I mean,
again, personality style, but you could pivot
that to, okay, here's the positives of what we're
seeing. Yes, you are achieving your targets.
If we were to rotate you to a different job,
absolutely, you'd probably still achieve your
targets. That's maybe going to give you your
mental stimulation. And having worked in production
myself for many, many years, they are the things
that people did in production lines to alleviate
that stress on their employees was to okay, we
need to rotate jobs every hour. Otherwise, we're
just going to churn through people. And it could
be if I was a dove or which is the color for
the dove so peaceful, we don't like change. I
agree. We like calm and harmonious. Yep. So if
I was a dove, and then you said you can change
jobs every day, I'm going to be upset about that.
So now, this is where businesses can go, oh,
I tried to fix that, but then, you know, it didn't
work. That's what we hear. But it's like, okay,
well, people are bored, people are complaining.
I hear the people that talk all the time complaining.
I don't hear the others. So then I fix it for
the people that are talking all the time. But
then I'm upsetting all these other people and
then I leave. They don't tell me why because
they want to keep the peace and say, I appreciate
the job and it's not for me anymore. See you
later. So that extra level of understanding is
powerful. Yeah. So then they can go, okay, well,
you've got three people that want to rotate,
you've got two people that don't, let's just
let them go there, go nuts, hit your targets,
and these things rotate, and they're like, why
can't we rotate their dogs? Look, they just really
like doing the same thing, they don't like rotating.
It's the same as we can go, no one changes jobs,
or everyone changes jobs, they're gonna hate
one, you're gonna hate one. You three swap, you
don't. So it's a really good example of how we
can... You just understand how a person might
resolve a situation. And another factor is, it
could be we can't do any of those things. This
person shouldn't have been employed in the first
place. We knew they didn't like it. They needed
a job. So, they shouldn't have applied for it.
They needed money. They had family to feed. So,
of course, they're going to do what needs to
happen to feed themselves and their family. But
we probably shouldn't as a business have taken
them on. So, sometimes you free up their future.
They'll go to something else. They'll love it.
It'll be great. You'll find someone better for
the role. Everyone's happy. There's that classic
scene in that George Clooney movie where he flies
around the country and he's the guy who has to
go in and fire people. I can never remember the
actor's name, but he played Spider -Man's nemesis,
the newspaper guy who's always trying to get
photos of Spider -Man and victimize, demonize
Spider -Man. Anyway, that guy, he's got to go
in and fire him and he's middle to elderly. And
he's starting to get upset. It's easy for you
to say rah rah rah rah and blah blah blah. And
then George Clooney comes out and he has a chat
and he says, so what did you want to be when
you were at college? And I had dreams of being
a chef, I think it was. So how much did they
have to pay you in this job to make you give
up on your dream? So good. Yeah. And it's just
brilliant. One of the most powerful scenes I've
ever seen in a movie. And this guy has compromised
what he actually wanted to do. because he needed
the money. And then five years in, you're now
in that lifestyle of, okay, I've got this income,
I don't want to lose the safety blanket. Perfect
example there with your production line employee.
I mean, no one wants to be a production line
employee. Yeah. Well, we don't know that. Well,
that's a sure thing. We've got personnel. So
there is actually one that says they probably
would be suited to change their competitive tasks.
They don't want to break any rules. In my experience
in production lines, the majority of people there
are there because they need the money. They didn't
wake up at five years old and go, I can't wait
to work for Holden's. This is going to be awesome.
I'm going to put seats on a car. I'm saying that
though. Probably most of the stories you hear
about people working their whole lives for businesses
are for the car manufacturers or those. Yeah,
absolutely. So we say they might not like it,
but they do. Yeah, security. Yeah. And it's no
different than, I remember having a flatmate
once and, and, um, I shouldn't say it like that
in case I identify it, but no, no, no, it's fine.
Maybe I, maybe I double bluffed. I had a flatmate
once and like, he had made up for it. Like, like
she's the worst person in the world. Like she's
so mean to him. Like so mean. And he loved it.
Yep. Like he didn't sound like he loved it. He's
still with her. Yeah. That was a long time ago.
So, you know, like, just because they complain
about something doesn't mean they don't deep
down like it. I think that's where you see they've
been there their whole life working for a business
and you've said, look, I've been in there and
they don't like it. They need it for the money.
But they love the security it brings. Or they
love the consistency. They know what they're
doing each day. And even though they don't like
some other stuff, and maybe they don't have enough
money to travel, the security is more important
to them than the thrill of the travel. and that's
probably the personality reference. When you
say it like that, it was a destination place.
If you could have, where I grew up, if you could
have got into the Holden's manufacturing plant,
that was the place, that was the job. It was
unskilled labour, so most people could do your
aptitude test, do your personality test, do a
bit of a physical, and get in there. But that
was the peak. It was pretty good money. And you
had that job security, which was what a lot of
people in that socioeconomic environment were
very much after. And we've had people apply with
us and they're like, oh, we love the perks. This
is amazing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And
they're like, oh, but I'm just really secure
in my job right now. I've been there six years
and I just feel like I can't give that up. Yeah.
Even though everything points to I'm better off.
They know it, whatever. Better than the devil
they know. But yes, it's the confidence and that
security and the consistency and the fear of
change that's far greater than the rest. So that's
why you've got the dove or the green, I think
it was. They get along well, but security is
a huge thing to them. So it doesn't matter what
carrots you dangle or anything else, at the end
of the day, you just need to be talking security.
Yep. Um, so anyway, well, let's get, it's a good
example there. So we'll go on to the next one.
Second one. We've got a service technician who's
on the road by themselves. Cool. Who wants to
be a service technician? Me. I'll do it. Cool.
Um. With your personality? No, I don't recommend.
So on the road. That's why I want to do it. So
we don't actually know what Zee's problem is
right now. Um, so we just know she, we just heard
she's unhappy. Yeah. So we'd be good to have
a chat in. Okay. Cool. Yep. Right. Hey Zee. Hey
guys, how you doing? Would you like to be performance
managed by Rowan or Ian today? Oh, you're both
the same person, so I can't wait for this. Anyway,
yes, hi guys. How can I help? Just heard, you
know, you have a few comments to make to us,
but we haven't heard them from you, so we just
thought we'd get you in for a chat and just find
out if there's anything we can do for you. Yeah,
no worries. Yeah, I've noticed that I'm feeling
a bit flat lately. I don't like... how little
time I get to spend with my family, I guess.
And, you know, I'm just, my mood's really dampened.
I know I've been here for six months and thought
I could do it, but I don't know. I just, I'm
not really sure. I find I finished the day and
I'm just not happy. And I'm finding it really,
like really hard to wake up and get to work each
day. Yep. So what makes you happy? I really like
being involved with other people. Yeah. And so
when you applied for the job, what did you think
it was going to be? I'm going to pause there
for a second. So we heard she likes people. Bang,
we've got another peacock. All right. So we're
not giving you too much variety here. But then
we've also got Ian going, what do you think it's
going to be? He's done this twice now. So if
we go in colors, what's Ian? And is a red I think
I've got red traits. Yeah dominant red dominant.
All right, so red eagle in control. Yeah results
Direct likes challenge his blood. He's stubborn
loses track of the big picture He's like a bull
in a china shop and he's insensitive to other
people Sounds real rough, but there's some really
good leadership qualities there You need to do
to just you know, make decisions and actually
lead the way. Yeah So, you know, I'm just saying
hey What's going on? Yeah, that's all I'm doing.
So we don't know who I am. You've said straight
away I love people that makes me happy. We know
you're a peacock now boom We don't even need
to look at anything else because that's pretty
obvious and Ian's come and gone. What'd you expect?
We need to rein in back in right? Yeah, because
you like people he doesn't care. Yeah All right,
so we go back to it. Yeah. All right. See if
that ran through yours you're out in the road
providing service all day, fixing things obviously.
You love people. I'd imagine you get to see a
lot of people in your role. So what's your issue?
Do you not actually get to spend any time talking?
I don't get to build relationships with them
and I know little bits about them. So for example,
when I go and speak to the guy I drop all the
stuff off at, I get to hear about his life, but
it feels so impersonal and I can't. Can't spend
the time getting to know him and I you know,
but like I feel like that would be really good
for business Yeah. Yeah. All right. So that's
really hurting my ears to hear it sounds all
la -di -da and boring, right? A lot of people
are gonna relate to that. So, okay. We're learning
about Rowan now. He's called bad cop instead.
I was bad cop. I'm sure I was bad cop We've all
got natural tendencies, right? Okay. So look
I understand what you're saying You know, so
now I'm being a good good manager here. I'm not
giving you my opinion You're giving the impression
that you're listening about that? I am listening.
I definitely heard her. I don't have to agree,
but she is a person. So if we want her around,
then we need to listen to her. So, yeah, understand
what you're saying. We've got two types of teams,
as you know, like we've got we've got bands with
two people to do some types of jobs. And we've
got fans of one people, one person. And we've
got you in the band by yourself because you're
one of our best technicians. And we sort of.
We can't send out the trainees by themselves.
And obviously being by yourself, you generate
a bit more money for us and you get paid a bit
more. But I guess, would you prefer to be around
someone else all day, working together? Is that
something that's going to make you happier in
the role? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's have
a chat about... changing your role. Obviously
we just changed your package a little bit, but
we'll get you back in the van with someone else.
Did you enjoy that when you did that before you
moved to one? Yeah. Cool. I felt like I was able
to support people. Yeah. We'll get you back in
a van with two people and then we'll figure out,
we'll talk in three months and just see how you
feel. Yeah. Perhaps we could, perhaps we could
do a couple of personality tests and make sure
that she's coupled up with someone that is, it's
going to work. Not you. No, obviously. Yeah.
Pro tips. So then you can take that to the next
level. You've got teams of people. who works
well. So if you put a whole bunch of dominant
people together, like the Ian's, and they're
all just going, like, they'll be able to take
it, but they're not going to get anywhere. You
know, so how do you find a good mix of someone
that's going to hold everyone together, someone
that's going to think, you know, think ahead
and use their brain, someone that's going to
be able to talk and communicate to other people
about what they're doing and someone that's,
you know, brave enough to make decisions. I'm
going to start communicating in grunts, I think.
You don't have to start. How did this turn into
a bashing Ian thing? So I guess that kind of
personality that I was trying to play to was
the green. The green? Yeah. Cool. So that was
dove. Peaceful. Yep. Yep. Supportive, caring,
reliable. Framed it positively as well. Possibly
the only difference was they might not be as
comfortable with change as you would have expected.
So maybe there would have been a bit of pushback
on that. Yeah. So then I've picked up that wrong,
said it was obvious. That's fine. But then you
go, okay, well what's that issues come from?
The resolution is probably still acceptable because
you were in a van with two people. You were comfortable
and you were happy. And then you've been taken
out of that. You've been forced to change work
by yourself. So. been too accommodating. Luckily,
we've got the right solution. Yeah. But just
in a different way. Yep. Yep. Cool. Easy fix.
It's a very interesting point there as well,
is that some people have multiple squares. Yeah.
I know the first time I did this, I was hard
out, hard out wise, hard out bold, and then like
pretty much like nearly hard out on the showy
as well. Not that I... like doing that all the
time, but I didn't have too much of the peaceful.
But I wasn't a negative because you can score
negative in these ones, but I was actually positive
in everyone. So I had the peaceful traits. I
wasn't negative in that regard, but people can
change. Definitely. And they can have multiple
aspects as well. Cool. What's another one let's
go through? We have a scheduler in the disability
sector. That's me. Translate what that job is
first. That's someone who schedules people to
go and visit. I would imagine, uh, if we're talking,
if we're talking NDIS, uh, at the moment. Oh,
okay. I've got a, I've got a list. He doesn't
get to choose who he is. You have to be someone.
Um, she's like, we can't get there on one again.
So that was a good example. So the person, the
person that Z is suggesting to me quite subtly
is going to be analytical and precise detail
oriented. He didn't know that. You could have
got away and just still a surprise for them.
She ruined it for us. I was going to, I was going
to go in as a scheduler who with my personality
trait would absolutely hate that job. Yeah. Well
you do whatever you want. We'll figure it out.
Um, but the, the. Yeah, so the job basically
is in the IAS, they do have participants and
they have people that go and work with the participants
in this role. And so this job is to basically
fill shifts. It goes on all day, every day, and
we've just got to ring people to fill shifts.
And some people are going to like the time, some
aren't. Some have more hours, some have less
hours. They're all upset. They're all happy.
They all want the good shifts. None of them want
to work with the bad clients. They want them
to do good ones. That's the role. So you're going
to lead the interview of old Ian. Yep. Okay.
So let's just assume we're just coming in for
a career system meeting. Hi Anne, how have you
found your job over the last six months? Challenging.
Can you explain why that's the case? Yeah, I
mean we've got a diverse range of people that
I need to talk to every day and I find it difficult
to empathise when at the end of the day these
people have applied for a job. They know that
they're getting scheduled onto different participants
at different times. I understand that they want
consistency, but we're not in a position as a
company to be able to offer that. We have many
people who need to be matched up with various
participants. And sometimes I feel like my job
is just listening to people whinge and complain
about how rubbish it is. And I try to... Be polite,
but at times I find it difficult not just to
be you know what actually this is your job How
about you just? Do it or don't do it. How do
you feel? This could be fixed Less people complaining
about the job that they've been employed to do
Maybe obviously I need to understand people better
But also, I think it's a two -way street. Mostly
the shift times, whether it's not enough shifts
or it's too many shifts. I don't like working
with this participant. Never really training,
which is a good thing for the business. But yeah,
mostly it's the timing of the shifts. And is
that because you can't accommodate for that or
is that because you don't want to? It's generally
because I can't. You can't give everyone what
they want. I'm not an ice cream salesman. So
sometimes, sometimes people have to compromise.
And I'm just following the policies that have
been given to me as an employee that these people
will work here, here, here and here. We try to
give them the diversity that they're craving
so that they don't get bored. Uh, but yeah, I
mean, people love to complain and as a scheduler,
I don't think it's my job to have to listen to
their complaints. Maybe they could bump that
somewhere else. Cool. So let's stop that one
there. Um, and you know, that's a, you know,
we're, we're butting heads somewhat. This guy
obviously knows what he's talking about. Um,
what he thinks. Fire that guy. By the way, off
topic though, role plays, they're always, people
find them uncomfortable and awkward. And we've
just rolled through these. Yes, no, no prep and
whatnot, but highly valuable in a business, just
one to get people understanding of how things
go and teach people how to deal with situations
without a customer there. Yeah. You know, if
you get chances, whether it's sales or anything
else, just role play things and you can really
identify how you can do things better. That's
really cool. So, but yeah, we'll stop it there.
So what I think would be cool. is if let's just
pretend Ian's really good at his job. He obviously
knows what he's doing, but he just doesn't get
his dealing with hundreds of people and he needs
to sort of just understand their perspective
and get the best result for everyone. And it's
his job to make them feel good about doing the
shift they don't want to do, but he's obviously
not going to do that. So we've probably got the
wrong personality type here. So we'll just pretend
Ian left because he's like, you guys aren't listening
to me, blah, blah, blah. He's left. We're going
to look for a new scheduler. Yep. And we're going
to look at some traits that we're going to want.
Yep. And then see what type of personality we're
looking for. So and we're going to choose the
word that most applies to the person that we're
looking for. And it's going to be the trait that
we most want out of the four. So we have restless,
harsh, persistent or dependent. Top two words.
Quick. Dependent. Dependent. Yeah. Yep. Persistent.
Yeah. Probably persistent as well, yeah. So then
it's given us definitions. Persistent is you
don't quit easily and dependent as you let others
lead, then you follow. Interesting. So I think
we want, we don't quit easily because we've got
just a full minute to fill it, regardless if
anyone's available. See, I think harsh could
be helpful as well. You speak with strong words.
You are not gentle because we've got lots of
personality types, so we can't be harsh. You've
got to be a bit empathetic. Yeah, but yeah. Right.
We vote persistent or harsh. I'm voting persistent.
Persistent, yeah. Cool, all right. So tick that.
Four more words. Risk taker, adventurous, thorough,
patient. Thorough. Thorough and patient. Cool.
So patient is saying you can wait or work for
a long time without getting bored. Thorough is
you take care to finish every little detail of
your work. Yeah, I would do both, but I don't
know. You've both got to choose one. I agree.
I want more detail because it's scheduled. Yeah,
thorough. So seeing there's no right or wrong
answers to these, right? But for this role, so
four more moralistic, pleasant, powerful, charismatic.
Charismatic? Yes, I said. Yeah, that would be
the people part. You have a talent for talking
to people, making friends, and being persuasive.
Yeah, definitely. We want that. We have four
persistent, persistent, influential, logical,
sincere. Logical? Yep, that's the first one I
thought of. Yeah, you prefer facts and numbers
instead of feelings. So we still have Got the
charismatic. Let's go with that. We're on the
same page here. This is good. I've got 20 questions.
That's one. Question five. Interested, motivator,
motivated, willing. Motivated? Because that would
usually be a single. You always have energy is
its definition. Yep. Yeah, I'd say motivated.
So it's got some cool ways here. What do you
think Ian? leaning to the same as they there
yeah like i get the definitions i keep looking
at these words so it's easier for me but interested
as you like doing and learning things so i think
we're really like that's not critical compared
to other ones in that role no motivate or do
you give other people more energy and confidence
that could yeah motivators you always have energy
so we want motivated but we're dealing with hundreds
of people like clients and staff So I'd probably
go motivate all. Yep. Um, and then willing, you
will do what needs to be done, even if it's hard.
We want that too. Yeah. But I'm probably going
to go to the people because the people's always
the hardest thing. Yeah. So cool. Motivate all.
Optimistic, practical, accurate, dependable.
Accurate. Yeah. Definitely need schedules that
are accurate. Otherwise it's just going to turn
to chaos. Yeah. healthy dose of optimism couldn't
hurt yep now some of those traits would be very
useful as well but we just go on number one uninvolved
undisciplined unemotional unsympathetic wowie
we've got to pick which one we prefer out of
those no which one most applies so out of those
bad things what do we Given the definitions,
what would you choose right to be honest? I would
go like I don't want to involve so we want to
lean towards unsympathetic Which doesn't mean
an empathetic saying we don't really in this
definition and saying we don't we're not sympathetic
to their feelings and Unemotional as we don't
feel strong feelings. Okay, that's us probably
good. Yeah So we care about other people, but
we're not going to get like tangled up ourselves
Detached. Yeah, devoid transfer. Yep. So severe,
competitive, perfectionist, compromising. Compromising
potentially. Yeah, compromising because you'd
need to move schedules around. Don't have to
upset when you have to sacrifice to help others.
Yep. Cool. So just in case anyone's wondering
why are we doing this? Like we're trying to figure
out what personality type is going to be good
for this role. So we've been intentional now.
Okay, what traits do we want? And it's helping
us solve this. So we don't get another person
that, you know, technically might've been okay,
but wasn't performing based on other things,
which was causing us people problems, right?
Yep. You can just do this as part of the onboarding
or the recruitment process. It's going to save
you a bunch of time and potentially money in
the long run. Yeah. So you potentially are doing
the recruitment onboarding. So yeah, submit your
cover letter and then we shortlist people. We
ask them a bunch of questions. So, Hey, do you
mind doing this free test and let us know what
you get? There's no right or wrong answers. Because
you might get some great people that fit elsewhere
too. So myopic, which is you can't easily guess
what will happen in the future. Predictable,
demanding, interrupts. Predictable? Yeah. So
they do things in a certain way. They don't want
change. We want them to be consistent with everyone
and follow the systems and procedures. Impulsive,
reacting, minimise risk, risk averse. Minimise
risk. Yeah, I'm happy with that too. Tough, serious,
awkward, excitable. Tough. Or serious. Yep. So
serious, you usually don't joke. You don't mix
humor and work. Tough, you don't get upset or
cry when things are difficult for you. Tough.
Nice. Fun fact. Unrelated. It's a good example
of how different words means different things
to people. So, you know, if you ever do have
some words up on your wall about what your business
stands for, probably worth having a definition
to. Yes. Compassionate, driven, curious, passionate.
Passionate? What were the other three? Compassionate,
driven, curious, passionate. Okay, maybe driven.
Yeah, I was going compassionate. I was thinking
compassionate or driven. And driven was determination.
See, I'm caught between compassion in that role.
could be a weakness as well, because you want
to try and make everyone happy. But we're unemotional
too. We are unemotional. Yeah. Yeah. So passion,
it's like a strong issue, issue, sort of dream.
So we don't necessarily, we want this person
to stick around. That driven, driven kind of.
Yeah. Cool. Let's do that. Um, withdrawn, shy,
bossy, talkative. Couldn't hurt to be bossy.
Yeah. Yeah. I'm going the same. We don't want
to talkative because they've got to, they've
got to book shifts in. Doormat, reclusive, forward,
braggart. Forward. Yep, definitely not a doormat.
So it's saying we don't worry about people's
feelings when we're forward, but we want them
to be okay. Yeah, so you need an Ian. You're
not wrong. We should have given fake names to
each other. It's getting personal. Hot -headed,
vengeful, rash, fearful. Oh, gee, they're not
on a great list, is it? Say again? Fearful, rash,
vengeful, hot -headed. Rash? Rash, rash, rash.
Yeah. None of them are very desirable. Yeah.
So we don't want them to get revenge on anyone?
No. We don't want them to get angry. No. We don't
want them to do things without thinking. Yeah.
Do we want to... like worry like we don't want
to worry but that's the best out of those four
probably yeah at least then they're showing that
they care yeah it's good to be fearful of stuff
like you know you don't want to just not do anything
i'd be worried if i wasn't helping at least some
of these people achieve their goals yeah consistent
achieving meticulous seeking meticulous um you
like to do things perfectly so you focus on every
little detail even if it takes a long time maybe
not i'm going it's consistent yeah same way every
time Because then at least people know what they're
getting like even if they don't like it They
know what to expect and then if if they're meticulous
in that sort of role They're gonna be so worried
about getting it perfect for everyone that analysis
paralysis. Yeah, okay enthusiastic assertive
idealistic charitable Assertive yeah jinx Peaceful
independent conventional social social. Yeah,
I was tossing up between social and independent
Yeah, I was gonna get independent just because
well, yeah, it is an independent role. So you
don't need people to help you Yeah, it's gonna
get it done. Yep. That's fair. I'm from a management
point of view You want independent in that you
don't want all those people problems coming back
at you. No, yeah elaborate strong -willed respectful
cheerful Respectful or strong -willed or both
Yeah, I'm going respectful and cheerful, but
I think respectful because they've got to respect
the clients, they've got to respect the people,
regardless of where they can succeed or not,
but be respectful. Yeah. Happy? Yeah. Agreed.
And look, it's your business, so if you choose
different things, that's fine, but that's who
you want for that role, it's your choice, right?
Goal -oriented, procedural, selfless, people
-focused. People -focused. Could be any of those
really, can it? Probably not. I'd rule out goal
-oriented. Yep, I feel like I'm a rules. Mm -hmm.
I was gonna rule that self roll out selfless
Yeah, because the definition here is you work
so hard you hurt yourself and this doesn't really
bother you. No Yeah, we don't want that So then
we've got people focused or procedural So focusing
on the people I think it's important procedural
procedures step -by -step. I think it's pretty
important We need to be done. Yeah, and then
if you are getting people complaining like old
mate Ian was, you can go, well, here's the procedure
that I'm following and be devoid of that emotion.
So what we're looking for, we're looking for
Ian's adherence to procedures with a bit of empathy,
delivering the nice way. Yeah, cool. So procedural.
Right, that's our 20th. Hopefully it gives us
a result. It's thinking. Drum roll, please. Have
you got a drum roll on there? I can't remember.
OK, so it says, Al. That's the wisdom one. Yep.
The wise owl. The owl is logical, mathematically
minded, methodical and sometimes seen as a perfectionist.
Can be slow to make decisions and flexible if
rules and logic say otherwise. To mix, isn't
it? Yep. So owls are not big risk takers but
love detail. So they're not going to go outside
the box. To blue -green. Yeah. So I feel like
if we, that's a free test that we've just, anyone
can do. you can get other tests and it gives
you scores in each area. And that would actually
show you most likely for the what we described,
you want someone who's peaceful and detail orientated.
Yep. Yeah. So if you gave that test to someone
who's applying for the role and they came up
with the peacock, for example, you'd be like,
yeah, maybe not, maybe check them in sales. Yeah,
you know, probably take them out of that role.
Yeah, because they, yeah, and they weren't like
doing the same thing. Yep. And you know, even
was going to be hard dominant, which is good
because you'll get stuff done. But we need to
have tact as well. So then when we're getting
applications, we can actually narrow it down.
Not only are they technically suitable or the
resume looks okay, their personality type, like
their core is suited to this role. And it might
not be perfect, but it helps us narrow that down
and get the right person for the spot. I think
an exercise like this, if you've been in business
for a while and you've got a core group of employees
that are lifers, they've picked up your vision,
they pretty much personify who your business
is. And you know that you can have difficult
conversations with each other. This would be
a good exercise to sit down and go, okay, let's
look at your personalities. And then that can
be your avatar for your employees moving forward.
He's going, okay, well, I know that Barry over
there is really good in this job. And he has
been good in this job for 10 years. Let's do
a personality test, right? When we're hiring,
we want more Barry's. Spot on. Yeah. Yeah. And
it's the same if we're talking about marketing.
How do you find good clients? Choose your best
client. That's who your best client is. And then
plug that into the old AI machine and come up
with a strategy to target them. I think that's
a really good example of just how you can be
intentional and how personality types and just
having that understanding can help you without
going overboard. You know, people literally spend
years and years on it and just think it's the
best thing and the only thing in the business,
but it's probably just something to be aware
of. It's another tool in your toolbox. Yeah.
And, you know, when people such huge problem,
it's good to be aware and use it to help you
rather than surprise you. Yep. The only other
thing, too, is a lot of the small businesses,
like a business owner, employs people that they
like. So they end up with a lot of people with
similar traits to them. End up in an echo chamber.
Yeah. So they wonder, why can't we get past here?
Why do we never finish anything off? It's probably
because you're a leader, you're a dreamer, and
you're good with a big picture, and you like
people like that. So no one's actually doing
the work. It's okay to be challenged. It's necessary
to be challenged if you want to grow. Sometimes,
you end up like the emperor's new clothes. Everyone's
saying, yes, it's a beautiful suit, but you're
walking down the main street naked. Yeah, that's
a fair point. Yeah, you don't want yes men, essentially.
It's okay to have robust conversations about
the direction of a business. And I've found that
consulting to businesses sometimes, they will
pay you some money. You're not there to agree
with them because if if you were just giving
them the advice that they wanted to hear the
same thing is going to happen sometimes you might
need to have a tactful conversation not a not
an Ian is a scheduler conversation a Conversation
where you're like well here are my reasons for
saying what I'm saying you're paying us this
money because You needed an external viewpoint
and it doesn't have to be a consultant. It could
be an employee that you trust and you sit down
and have that self -reflection that we've talked
about on past podcasts as well. Extension, so
just like you're dealing with clients and things,
people are like, oh, you know, they don't buy
just for whatever reason, like we're giving them
everything they need. They just don't buy. Logically
given them everything and it looks like there's
different buyers and personas same personalities
Some want the detail some just want to be cuddled
and told they're important We're gonna look after
you and we're definitely gonna get done with
a big guarantee and we'll always be there for
you Some just want you to be there next day at
the lowest price. See you later You know, and
some people just want a good chat and some people
line up for a week before the new iPhone Yeah,
so they double the price when you're when you
put in that quote out or you just chuck Chuck
a bit of that theory and think about who you're
talking to. So, um, I think it's pretty cool
with some pretty big outcomes for people. It's
another, it's another knowledge base, isn't it?
And knowledge is power. So you utilize it. Beauty.
Yep. Nope. Very good. Um, we'll add all the links
to different types of tests you can do or have
your employees do. Um, just remember there's
heaps of different types. They all speak to the
same sort of theory about the different personality
types. Just read into it and also do some reflection
on who you are looking at employing, for example,
or what position you're trying to fill or what
you're trying to do. And figure out what sort
of personality you're working with or what you're
trying to find or those sort of things. Just
do a bit of reflection in that space. And we
wish you all the luck. We will see you on the
next podcast. Thanks for listening. Have fun.
Bye guys.