Welcome to Saint Alphonsus Wellcast, the podcast where we explore the many facets of health and well-being. This podcast is brought to you by Saint Alphonsus Corporate Health and Well-Being and a generous grant from the Saint Alphonsus Foundation. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show. 6 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,200 Hello and welcome to the Saint Alphonsus Wellcast. 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:36,280 My name is Candice Zappia and I'm joined today with Kim Kleveland, our nurse practitioner. And Deborah Masner, our RN. Happy to be here. 10 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:41,560 Thanks for joining us. 11 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:48,680 So today we're going to be talking about growth mindset and Kim has done a lot of research on this topic and so she is going to share with us a little bit about growth mindset and how we can, I guess, develop it. 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,200 So how about we get started with Kim. 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,840 What is growth mindset? 16 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:07,920 Well, I think the best part about a growth mindset is it can be used in any area of your 17 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:08,920 life. 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:15,400 It's a simple switch you can make, simple in concept, maybe less in practice, but it can 19 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:20,440 be used in your personal life, your professional life, health, fitness, parenting, friendships, 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,640 literally anywhere in your life that you feel like you need a little extra boost. 21 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,440 It's one of those great tools that can be contagious too if you start developing it in 22 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,920 your own life and you can demonstrate this for others. 23 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,360 It's something they can pick up on or maybe they can apply it in their own life and it's 24 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,960 something that we could all use a little bit more of. 25 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:44,360 So what it is is basically a belief that your skills and your work can improve over time. 26 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,880 Nothing is set in stone. 27 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,580 It's the belief that nothing is completely inherent for you. 28 00:01:50,580 --> 00:01:54,920 You can develop new skills and maybe you have a propensity for something, but you always 29 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,040 have the ability to accomplish new things. 30 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:03,480 It's the belief that intelligence and the ability to do something can be developed. 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:10,240 And what this does for you is allows for you to find positivity in areas of criticism, 32 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:15,960 curiosity to ask questions, and allows you to seek out questions and take risks in your 33 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:16,960 life. 34 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:17,960 What do you think, Deb? 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:19,880 Does that kind of summarize it? 36 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,320 That sounds very much like growth and learning rather than fixed. 37 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:25,920 We always compare it to a fixed. 38 00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,920 Yeah, so tell us what's the opposite side of growth. 39 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:33,520 Yeah, so sometimes just learning about a topic, it can be helpful to know what the opposite 40 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,880 is so that you know sort of the contrast. 41 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:38,600 The fixed mindset is the opposite. 42 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,520 It's the belief that the failure, any failure you have is a limit of your abilities and 43 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:48,440 you're either good at it or you're not maybe sticking to what you know. 44 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,160 Your potential is predetermined, those kinds of things. 45 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,760 Basically that you can't develop new skills or abilities over time that you're kind of 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,280 stuck with what you have and have to work with what you have. 47 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,920 That sounds like the thinking of like you're born that way or you have a natural talent 48 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:06,000 or you're gifted. 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,000 And so you see that. 50 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:14,200 That used to be the way we described a lot of people in sports or in music or in just 51 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,600 a lot of different things. 52 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:16,600 Yeah. 53 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,720 And I love to think about with this, if you think about any kind of challenge or setback, 54 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,080 you can't make it through a morning. 55 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:28,200 I feel like without a setback, at least not in my household, there's always setbacks. 56 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:33,200 And when you're in this growth mindset, it's that ability to look at life happening for 57 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:39,200 you, not to you and giving you challenges that you have the ability to overcome and 58 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,880 be creative in terms of finding a solution. 59 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,760 Whereas when you're in a fixed mindset, which I will admit I was in this morning, it's 60 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,160 something where you kind of feel like, well, this is the day. 61 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:52,280 This is what I'm left with. 62 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:56,760 I don't have a lot of tools or skills to kind of accomplish what I want to accomplish for 63 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:57,760 the day. 64 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,280 You kind of can feel like you're giving up when you're faced with any of those challenges 65 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,760 and maybe not believing in your ability to propel yourself forward. 66 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:05,760 Yeah. 67 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:11,400 I can definitely say that I had a fixed mindset when it came to math. 68 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,040 And I just continually told myself, I'm not good at this. 69 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,400 I can't get this concept. 70 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,400 And then I was forced with having to get this math class to graduate, right? 71 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,840 That I didn't know that I had to complete but did. 72 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:31,400 And I came at it with a different approach, but I also had a teacher, someone to guide 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,080 me that showed me a different approach and what I was capable of. 74 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,400 And then I started to build on that. 75 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:44,640 I'm like, oh, I did accomplish this and that helped to help my self-esteem. 76 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:52,160 And then it kind of opened up a world to me of like possibility because I moved out of 77 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:58,400 that fixed mindset of I can't do this and I'm not good at it too. 78 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,520 I can learn this. 79 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,720 I just have to learn it in a way that I can, you know, grasp. 80 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,720 And it's really changed my concept. 81 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,240 And I think it's great to have that. 82 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,040 Now I'm not afraid of it anymore. 83 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,320 What I love about what you just said too is how you mentioned that you had a fixed mindset 84 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,880 about math. 85 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:19,160 So I think it's important to note that you can, it's not all or nothing. 86 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,320 You can have a fixed mindset in certain areas of your life and maybe more of a growth mindset 87 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,560 comes more naturally to you in other areas. 88 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:32,480 And what I think is great about it is when you can identify in your own world places that 89 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:37,480 you've been able to utilize a growth mindset and really be able to capitalize on some of 90 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:43,040 your setbacks or challenges and propel yourself forward, you can apply those same skills and 91 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:48,800 that same knowledge about what you have inside of you and what skills you can draw upon for 92 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,600 areas where maybe you have more of a fixed mindset. 93 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,520 So it's a nice idea that you can kind of apply things. 94 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,880 And then certainly, you know, you develop self-efficacy and you develop self-esteem and confidence 95 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,760 in your ability and it can snowball into other areas of your life too. 96 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:04,960 Absolutely. 97 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:11,840 So moving forward, let's look at, give us some examples of a growth mindset. 98 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:14,520 I mean, that was kind of like one, I guess, right there. 99 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:19,520 But are there any other examples of how we can kind of change our mindset and keep moving 100 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,520 forward? 101 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,520 Yeah. 102 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,240 So I think, you know, right now we're at the workplace. 103 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,080 So maybe we could use a work-related example. 104 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:31,360 So say you're interested in a new job and you believed that pretty much you are who 105 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:37,000 you are, you don't have a lot of room to grow, maybe you feel threatened when others criticize 106 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,160 the work you're doing or aren't doing, or you don't feel confident in your ability to 107 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,080 try new things. 108 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,840 So if you were in this state of mind, you might hear yourself saying things like, I just 109 00:06:47,840 --> 00:06:50,520 can't or I've never done it before. 110 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,400 It's really outside of my skill set or I don't even know how to learn what I need to know 111 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,520 for this position. 112 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,800 What if I don't succeed? 113 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:01,280 They didn't like my first take at this. 114 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:02,880 I'm never going to get it right. 115 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,480 Or I don't want to ask questions. 116 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,240 What if they think I'm stupid? 117 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,720 You know, there's all these different ways that you may hear yourself talking to yourself 118 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,440 about what you're doing that may represent you being in a fixed mindset. 119 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,600 But if we take that same situation and you see a new job that you're interested in and 120 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,280 you know it's a little different than anything else you've done, but you know that because 121 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,840 skills can be learned and you have problem solving skills, that growth mindset, you 122 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,240 might be able to offer something to that position. 123 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,120 You're not 100% sure if you're a fit, but you think that every situation has a lesson 124 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,920 to be learned and you want to at least try. 125 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,640 That would be more of a growth mindset. 126 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,160 Deb, how do you think you could take any of those statements and sort of switch them 127 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:48,120 around to kind of reframe for yourself into a growth mindset, like, instead of thinking 128 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,320 I just can't or I've never done it before, so I'm not going to try? 129 00:07:51,320 --> 00:08:00,160 Yeah, I think using different words like it's figure outable or I'm capable or I can do 130 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:06,640 hard things or you know just kind of switching your language and also just being aware of 131 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:07,920 what you're saying to yourself. 132 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:13,360 I think a lot of people don't realize they're negative self-talk and so just recognizing 133 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:16,480 like I can figure these things out. 134 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,000 I can do this. 135 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:22,200 You know, it just kind of helps move us forward too. 136 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:28,800 Like you said, not being afraid of failure and just looking at failure differently. 137 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,240 It's really not failure, it's just learning. 138 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,160 That's how we learn and that's how we grow. 139 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,080 Yeah, I think that's so important. 140 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:42,680 In terms of what you said about people being aware of what they're saying to themselves, 141 00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:47,160 do you have any good tips or tricks for people as like a reminder or how to keep themselves 142 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,840 having tabs on what they are saying to themselves so they can keep that awareness? 143 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,040 Well I think just listening to something like this is going to make you more aware of what 144 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,440 you're saying to yourself. 145 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:07,000 So just educating yourself and then in the moment like really pausing and taking a moment 146 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:12,800 like say you get a new assignment or you have to figure out something at work or there's 147 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:18,080 some problem to be solved like taking a moment to just check in with yourself and you can 148 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:26,040 even pause and then just say to yourself like I'm having the thought that or I'm noticing 149 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:32,480 that and that can kind of help remove yourself from just being in the drama of oh I'm not 150 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:38,240 getting this, I must be so stupid, I'm never going to get this, I'm a failure. 151 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,080 You know when you can remove yourself and just say like well I noticed that I'm having 152 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:49,440 the thought that I'm never going to get this or I'm having the thought that I'm a failure. 153 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,960 That kind of removes you enough from the emotion of the situation that then you can take a 154 00:09:53,960 --> 00:10:01,840 moment and just kind of ask yourself like well is that true, what else is true and what 155 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:08,920 else is true is I can figure this out, I can you know I can pull in other resources, I 156 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,160 can then you start focusing on the solution instead of the problem. 157 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,800 Yeah, I really like that, I want to take it one step further. 158 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:22,760 I think that what that triggered for me in my mind is how sometimes when I'm in a fixed 159 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:27,720 mindset or even just having a lot of negative self-talk, sometimes I don't want to get out 160 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,320 of the self-talk secretly I think somewhere deep inside of me if I remove myself from 161 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:36,560 it and say like or more objective about it like this is what's happening to me, this 162 00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:39,920 is the thought I'm having, I'm like almost not ready to give it up sometimes. 163 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,040 I don't know if that's something you ever hear from people but it's kind of it's not 164 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,240 always comfortable to kind of flip the script on yourself. 165 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:52,320 Well especially so our brain you know we have all these neural pathways and we're just used 166 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:59,280 to following a familiar pathway so anytime we go off that path, it doesn't matter which 167 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,080 direction we're going our brain's like whoa where are you going that's not the way we 168 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:10,480 go brings in the fear response, brings you back to your negative talk or the usual one 169 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:13,280 because that's what you're used to. 170 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:19,040 So that's probably why you're like feel safer to be over in this little negative cave that 171 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,240 I've always been in than going out and thinking differently. 172 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,920 Yeah definitely and then circling back to Kandy's math situation where she had that 173 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:32,000 one area I feel like there are definitely two or three areas in my life I can identify 174 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,000 that I do a pretty darn good job with this growth mindset and kind of viewing my challenges 175 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,400 as opportunities and then there's a couple of areas where there's room for improvement. 176 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:47,840 But then also circling back everything is figure out of all and because I know I have 177 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,400 this ability in certain areas of my life I can certainly draw upon those resources inside 178 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,960 and out in order to take it to those other two areas. 179 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,200 And growth of course means that you have to do some type of action right and so sometimes 180 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:07,240 we don't want to have that mindset because it's easier to just not do it or pass it 181 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,200 on to somebody else but there's an opportunity when we're thinking okay let's take away these 182 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:17,920 negative self-talks it requires you to then do something that might be a little hard or 183 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:23,600 out of your comfort zone or whatever but then you build skills and then you can you know 184 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:26,200 progress but it requires work. 185 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,480 It definitely does and so when I think about two people who maybe are a little more primed 186 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:36,440 for some of this work you know just by way of time that we've been on this earth when 187 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,920 we are not exactly as young as these people I'm going to talk about now with this study 188 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,640 it's a little bit harder to rewire some of those pathways but they have done some interesting 189 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,520 research on high schoolers who are a little bit younger than me. 190 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:55,000 They have my brain is still very plastic and able to be molded and I can rewire those pathways 191 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,400 but when you're a little younger you maybe you have a little more you have less time 192 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,960 to develop those bad habits or some of that negative self-talk but they've done some studies 193 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:09,360 on this type of mindset when working with teen groups and they found that there was 194 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:14,760 more success in improving grades of high schoolers when they had participated in some level of 195 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,280 this mindset shift work at school. 196 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,920 So they did some curriculum regarding growth mindset did a lot of like peer counseling 197 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:27,320 and education about what setbacks look like for them how to overcome setbacks how this 198 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:33,360 is part of the learning process and they were able to take kids and implement this and found 199 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,920 that they had greater camaraderie, greater teamwork and later had greater success in 200 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,200 business when they had received this kind of coaching as high schoolers and the kids 201 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,440 that they used in this particular study I'm referencing were kids who are kind of on the 202 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,960 verge of failing out of school so they were able to kind of recover and then overall had 203 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,760 a better mindset going forward into the rest of their life and were equipped with tools 204 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,360 and skills that made them successful in other areas of their life as well. 205 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:04,040 So when we look at that they've also studied this mindset in the business sense looking 206 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,760 at teams using a growth mindset and getting some sort of coaching on this as well and 207 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,440 similar results have happened and I think it just shows there's some really powerful 208 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,840 reasons both inside for yourself but that as you're working as part of a team aimed 209 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,120 toward accomplishing a specific goal or making an impact in the community I think there's 210 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,000 definitely room for all of us to adopt this kind of mindset going forward. 211 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,200 So Deb I'm going to put you on the spot one more time. 212 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,320 How can we incorporate this in our daily life? 213 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:34,920 What would that look like for anybody? 214 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,400 That's a tough question. 215 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,400 Well I think it's being naturally curious. 216 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,000 I think acting like a scientist can be very very effective so you know when you think 217 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:52,600 about scientists and they do an experiment and it fails quote unquote fails it's not 218 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:59,400 a failure when you're a scientist it's like oh my hypothesis was proven wrong like oh 219 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:04,320 what's happening here or maybe they didn't add this chemical or that or what not like 220 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:10,720 they're just constantly observing and learning from it and so when we can just use that natural 221 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:17,520 curiosity and act like a scientist then we're able to kind of examine what's going on day 222 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:23,080 to day and even just like interactions with other people you know sometimes maybe you 223 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,360 have a conversation with a colleague and it doesn't go the way you thought it should 224 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,480 so instead of kind of getting hurt and like oh they don't like me or whatever you can 225 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,880 be curious and be like hmm I wonder why Kim said what she said today you know maybe she's 226 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:41,960 having a rough day or you know she mentioned her kids were sick last night or she didn't 227 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:47,680 get any sleep so you're just becoming curious so I think those are some ways that you can 228 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,480 practice growth mindset during the day. 229 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,760 Yeah I love that I think that's really really great I love that idea of just being naturally 230 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:01,200 curious and looking at ourselves and thinking about what we're thinking and how that applies 231 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:02,640 so that's really great. 232 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:08,160 Okay so in closing one last exercise I want to encourage everybody to do is to think about 233 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,480 an aspect of your life that you would love to improve and then think about some of the 234 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:17,840 thoughts that you have that may represent a growth mindset or a fixed mindset in regard 235 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,760 to that particular area of your life and then of course we can remember that we may have 236 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,720 parts of ourselves that exist in both of these mindsets and none of us are all or nothing 237 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,280 and that is perfectly okay and figure out a goal. 238 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:32,280 Love it. 239 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,840 Well thank you girls I think that was great. 240 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,960 Yeah thanks I think I hope it was helpful for everybody I think this is something we all 241 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,960 can work on none of us are perfect with this but it's really fun to dive into some of these 242 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,920 topics and think about how we can apply them. 243 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,360 Absolutely well that concludes this episode and we hope that you'll join us again on our 244 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:54,200 next topic but until then be well. 245 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:59,400 Thank you for listening to this episode of St. Alphonsus Wellcast brought to you by St. 246 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:04,360 Alphonsus Corporate Health and Well-Being and the St. Alphonsus Foundation. 247 00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:10,200 Always be sure to catch new episodes by subscribing to us through all major podcast platforms 248 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,480 including Apple, Google and Spotify. 249 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:19,480 We hope you'll tune in again until then be well.