1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,280 Hi, I'm Chris and I'm Micah and this is a special episode of the Donut Box podcast 2 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:20,600 Well, man, this is like you said it's very special edition of the Donut Box podcast where we're going to discuss a few things 3 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:23,240 and I guess kind of 4 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,840 break out and do a little bit different than the norm and 5 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:34,360 Literally just have a free form where we just talk about things that have it we've experienced in life and Chris and I have talked about it today 6 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:41,360 And we thought about telling about our religious backgrounds and things along those lines and see where that goes from man 7 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,960 Yeah, so we're gonna I think we're gonna title this church hurt spiritual abuse 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,560 Yeah, cuz I don't know if a lot of you all have grown up in church 9 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,960 Mike and I have grown up in church all of our lives 10 00:00:53,960 --> 00:01:01,520 And just so we can clarify this is not like we're gonna dog on church dog on Jesus just kick it right in the nuts 11 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,800 We're not gonna do that, but we are gonna talk about kind of our 12 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:12,320 Experiences because I think it's helpful for people. I think a lot of people have experienced kind of what we've gone through 13 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:18,880 You think and probably felt a lot of the same things and it's hard because Chris and I have talked about it in in depth 14 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,240 And most of the time people feel like oh man, it's just me 15 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,560 I probably am the only one feeling that and because of other church reasons that will go into 16 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,440 Probably feel you know, hey 17 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:36,800 I it's just me out there and now you know this actually happened to a lot of people but yeah 18 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,480 I'm excited to dive into it because there's a lot here, but it 19 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:48,440 I don't know it helps give perspective and then it also helps see certain sides of the aisle 20 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:53,720 So hopefully this helps formulate your opinion and again, this is all opinion based 21 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:59,800 There is a bright side to this because both of us have got on the other side of it, right? 22 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:05,240 I mean, I'm that's safe to say I know I have it's safe to say you've gotten on the other side of it like you know 23 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,880 On a on a good path kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely 24 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,880 Well, let's just dive in and kind of give you a little bit of background 25 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:15,160 Mike Micah 26 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:22,880 Before we met each other Micah grew up in a Pentecostal background. I grew up in a small small small Baptist church background 27 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:30,760 Kind of explain to them Micah. What a what a Pentecostal background growing up is like well, it's it's interesting 28 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,760 So if you don't know what Pentecostal is and this is 29 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,400 This is a very interesting second 30 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,400 it's actually the United Pentecostals and 31 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,960 They had a little bit of a different belief system and things like that 32 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,800 but 33 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,520 Essentially, there's a lot of legalistic rules 34 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,800 and it's it's based on very small scriptures within the Bible but 35 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:58,440 Literally, you know women can't wear pants. It has to be skirts 36 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,120 That are three-quarter length things like that. No makeup. No 37 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:10,160 No jewelry and their hair has to be done a certain way. I'm sure you've probably seen people in public look like that 38 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,160 They're probably Pentecostal 39 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:20,480 And the thing is that's that's how they're there the ladies have to wear and then men they have to wear a jean shorts or not 40 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,040 You know, you're not supposed to show your legs. Nothing like that 41 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,520 You have to be very modest and things like that 42 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:32,400 They do believe in speaking in tongues out loud and it has to be out loud to be a profession of the spirit 43 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,560 And I can say what that is basically they don't believe that you could possess the Holy Ghost without 44 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:47,360 I'm speaking in tongues because that's the evidence and there's a lot of debate around whether that is or whether it's not but 45 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,960 Yeah, there's it's like I said, it's very legalistic 46 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:53,960 well the interesting thing about 47 00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:01,880 Legalistic or legalism with the Pentecostals is they're very charismatic and charismatic means like you're more free flowing with the spirit and 48 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:07,720 You know, you're not doing everything like I guess and like a Catholic sense where everything's super structured 49 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,360 And like you have to say five Hail Mary's and kind of a thing but then on the flip side of that coin 50 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,600 It's like they're very like you have to follow all these rules and if you even 51 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:23,960 Look at a beer commercial then you're going to hell and so that's kind of a that's kind of the weird part about it 52 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,880 But Micah grew up in that and so I grew up in a Baptist church very small 53 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:35,640 And then of course you guys have heard the story about when we met and we were in elementary school and we met at church 54 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:42,240 And things were fine in elementary and we didn't start noticing things at this church until when would you say you would start noticing it? 55 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,560 Maybe seventh or it's probably high school actually. Yeah. Well, it was middle school for sure 56 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,600 I think it was whenever we started going to the youth group 57 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,800 You know and I'll tell you this much so and this is just a little bit of a backstory 58 00:04:54,800 --> 00:05:02,880 What happened was we used to have what they called cell groups or small groups and they were all within the homes of 59 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,920 Certain, you know leaders and so ours was a guy named Tony shout out if you're listening 60 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:16,880 But he would have it in his home and how many of us were there probably 10 12 of us something like that 61 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,440 Yeah, one time he got to be like up to 15 62 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:25,240 Yeah, middle school boys and you know, we would have pizza and it was like a Bible study 63 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:30,800 And it would we would start off with worship and stuff and it was it was pretty cool because it was a pretty tight-knit group and whatnot 64 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:38,000 And then, you know, sometimes we would take off and we would have like game nights or we would go play football in the field behind their house 65 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:45,080 Which come to think of it. They had like this weird archery range back there just behind these people's backyards and I'm like 66 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,840 Okay, don't miss but anyways 67 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:56,960 You know, it was stuff like that, but what ended up happening was we moved they wanted to move to a more central environment to where they had 68 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:04,720 More regular church services like a youth service altogether. So we moved to that and then we broke off after the worship and 69 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:12,080 Things like that to our own small groups, but we were in like Sunday school classes. So I guess it wasn't as 70 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:17,040 I don't know how exactly describe it. It definitely changed everything. Yeah, it did for sure 71 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:23,200 Man, I don't really remember but I I guess you don't really realize it until you're out of it 72 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:26,720 Kind of and it's not like we were in a cult or anything like that 73 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:33,760 But just some of the teaching and the stuff was just very I had to unlearn a lot of bad theology if that makes sense 74 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,480 like one of the one of the big ones was that 75 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,360 If you mess up too many times God will leave you or the Holy Spirit will leave you 76 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:49,440 They talked that they preached that really hard. Yeah, it was a lot of hellfire and brimstone kind of stuff and 77 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,400 Where that church came from? 78 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:57,360 So they now identified as what's called non denominational or they kind of don't take any sort of affiliation 79 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:03,240 But they came from what is called assemblies of God, which is kind of close to Pentecostal Church 80 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:10,280 Similar ideals still spoken tongues. Something else about Pentecostals. We didn't talk about was, you know, jumping up and down 81 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:17,720 Hands raised very vocal very vocal compared to the other denominations. Like if you pray, it's not just one person praying 82 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,080 It could be everybody praying, right? And that's in 83 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,200 Different churches are different ways like the church we grew up in that happened sometimes 84 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,800 But not all the time and then there are some churches where that happens 85 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,440 All the time it definitely wasn't like the ones you see on TV that are extreme 86 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:37,960 Where like everybody's clucking like a chicken and everybody's like 87 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:45,640 Acting really weird because some of those they they get a little weird man. Like some of those on TV. They get really weird. Yeah, yeah 88 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:55,320 I've seen some in real life like that and some like po-dunk places and I kind of don't want to talk about those experiences, but it's 89 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:00,280 I will say this and this is one of those lines to where even as we're speaking about it now 90 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,720 It's one of those boundaries we were taught never to cross so it's kind of hard, but we're I 91 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,280 I don't know how to say this, but 92 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,680 I had an experience and we won't go into it too much because I just don't like talking about it, but 93 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:19,880 It was in the middle of nowhere and essentially it was just very very 94 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:27,000 I almost want to say blasphemous, but I hate using such a christianese word. You felt like it wasn't authentic 95 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,880 It's kind of maybe what you're saying. Yes, and I'm I would hate to I hate to say this too 96 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,880 But there is that's not the only time the time that I'm talking about as an extreme example 97 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:37,880 But I've seen other occasions as well 98 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,680 I've seen people running around the church and that's a common place and you know what people have 99 00:08:42,680 --> 00:08:47,080 I've seen people running around the church and I've seen people running around the church 100 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,440 And that's a common place and you know what people have been filled with the Holy Spirit to be able to do that and that and 101 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:57,240 Not saying that that's not a thing, but you do see the people that it is just a show 102 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:03,400 I mean I saw a guy running around the church and smack the assistant pastor in the back of the head 103 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,680 The female assistant pastor in the back of the head 104 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:13,240 On accident, of course. I mean it was the I'm not female pastor the pastor's wife. I mean it she is a 105 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,840 Preacher as well, but still smacked her in the back of the head not looking where he's going 106 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,000 My thing is if that is really really the utterance of the Holy Spirit 107 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,520 Hank will lead you into smacking somebody in the back of the head 108 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,600 Right and I and I firmly believe that the Holy Spirit anytime, you know 109 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:38,440 The Holy Spirit does something it's to equip edify or bring correction. It's never to bring attention to some person 110 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,920 It's always to bring attention like back to God, right? So, you know 111 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:51,320 If it's if it's becoming a performance or if it's becoming more of a distraction, you know, like I said, you gotta you gotta ask yourself like 112 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,840 You have to sometimes define the line between 113 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,680 Performance and from what's from the Holy Spirit kind of a thing and that brings me to my next point 114 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:06,920 Um, we've also I've also been a part of scenarios. I'm not sure Chris. Have you been a part of the scenario too where? 115 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:13,720 You're you're either a leader or something along those lines and because you you dress or part of the way that you act 116 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,760 Something like that. Maybe it's not necessarily out of bounds by the the means of the bible 117 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:24,120 but they characterize it as oh, you're not necessarily a good leader or things like that 118 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:31,240 And they they take signs as like oh, maybe you you aren't right with the Holy Spirit like you should be 119 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,120 Because sometimes you don't do the performative things 120 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,840 Um, I don't know if that's ever 121 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,880 Uh come up 122 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:44,680 Because I mean, I'm pretty low-key dude. Like I just wore jeans and a t-shirt. So 123 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:51,880 I don't know. Can you give me like an example? And and maybe this was just my experience, but whenever I became 124 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,800 Um an assistant youth leader and kind of started going that direction 125 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:03,480 Uh, especially whenever because I don't know. I guess you're kind of a an assistant at one point where you're like assisting somebody 126 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,760 And then once they feel like you're ready, they'll give you your own 127 00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,520 You know sell group and make you a full-on assistant and things like that 128 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,280 um 129 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,480 Especially while I was being watched and while I was 130 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,680 You know having that I guess mentor over me 131 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,480 There was definitely that pressure of 132 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,080 And I understand they're formidable kids essentially. I'm in high school. They're in middle school 133 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:31,640 Like I get it. They're they're in a very formidable state in life and things like that 134 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,880 But I also felt like it was one of those things we also had conversations of well 135 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:41,080 I haven't seen you raise your hands in church in a while or I haven't seen you do 136 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,640 Like I haven't seen you speak in tongues in a while or I haven't seen you 137 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,080 You know something along those lines and they take that as a 138 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:56,120 Something is going on with you. Should we remove you from this position because you have something spiritually going on with you 139 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:57,880 um 140 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,600 And so the hard part is what chris is talking about with it's that hard line of 141 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:09,160 The performative stuff in some instances. It's even hard of I want to keep this position 142 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,720 So I have to do the performative thing sometimes 143 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:17,400 Yeah, I've been there for sure. I know exactly what you mean. It's like oh well, obviously you're not 144 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:24,440 In a right relationship with the lord or you're not spiritually healthy because you're not doing x y or z because we can't measure 145 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:30,600 Uh what you're doing externally and I think that's what it was like it growing up in that youth group 146 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:35,960 It was very like I said legalistic to where it was a lot of a lot of performance and a lot of show 147 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,520 and I just remember that 148 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:40,920 I would really beat myself up 149 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:46,680 Because you know you would go on these spiritual retreats and you would come back like just on fire 150 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:52,200 Emotionally charged as you've been if you've never been in that situation like there's a lot of emotion going your spiritual 151 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,280 Relativity charged you like I'm on fire for god 152 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,240 But then by like Thursday you're kind of like 153 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,360 Whining off and it was like one of those it was like drinking a spiritual red bull like you would get all hyped up 154 00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:04,680 But then you would crash and you'd be like wow 155 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,720 I'm not as fired as up as I used to be 156 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,480 As I was on that weekend. Is there something wrong with me? Maybe my love for the lord isn't as real as I thought it was 157 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:18,440 Or maybe I did something wrong and it was like anytime you messed up anytime you messed up 158 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,160 They would tell you oh, yeah, like you since you messed up. You're not right with god and 159 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,880 You know if you're continuing in a pattern of 160 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,200 Sending and messing up then yeah, that's true 161 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,040 Like you're you're making distance between you and god 162 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:35,400 But it's like even if you do one little thing you're automatically it's like you're automatically far and far far away 163 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,080 So every time I messed up 164 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,560 I would beat myself up because I was like yeah 165 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,000 I just messed up 166 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,760 And it was almost like I had to work my way back to get close to god 167 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,000 Which is totally not scriptural, but that's what they made you believe and the other fearful part 168 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:56,360 I don't know if you remember this but something that was really hardcore with me was I remember it was very very very heavy 169 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,200 on 170 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:03,320 If you get set free from something like because they believe if you're dealing with some sort of addiction 171 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,600 Or bondage or some sort of issue in life, right? 172 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,920 That you need to break free from some sort of sin that you just can't stop from doing 173 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:17,000 You can get broken free of free through prayer, which is true instantly. They believe it's instant 174 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:23,400 They believe it's instant like you are healed at that moment. Bam. You're healed and so 175 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,280 What ends up happening? 176 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,600 Literally it was taught that if we break free from this addiction through prayer and everything like that 177 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:38,600 However, we fall back into that addiction or back into that turmoil that it would come back on a seven fold 178 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:44,680 And it would be seven times harder for us to get free from that addiction or that issue or bondage 179 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:46,840 Well, sometimes 180 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,000 Whenever you're walking out through a process sometimes the lord hears you instantly 181 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:57,000 But sometimes you might have to have prayer and go to therapy or you might have to have prayer and go to rehab 182 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,400 Like there's nothing wrong with that and I remember 183 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,280 You know, even them 184 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,080 kind of putting projecting the belief that if you struggle with depression 185 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Or anxiety that means you're not as strong as of a Christian and that there's something wrong with your faith 186 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,440 You're not putting yours. You don't have the faith of god 187 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,560 I mean, it's 188 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:20,920 Yeah, it's 189 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:27,080 It's terrible because there was probably a lot of teens in that youth group that were going through a lot of stuff at the time 190 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:28,440 um 191 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:34,360 And you know a lot of it was get through through prayer and yes prayer does help absolutely 192 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,960 But that's not the only answer to things to be honest with you man. I can't remember 193 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:45,800 Other than being like, oh, yeah, uh, the holy spirit's gonna leave you. I don't really remember him 194 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,960 Our youth pastor ever opening up the bible or ever preaching out a 195 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,320 Something I just remember he would just rant like he would just go on and on and on and rant 196 00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,120 And I'd we'd be sitting there being like, okay. What like what's going on if it was 197 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:05,160 Uh, something like open out of the bible. It would literally be a scripture 198 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:11,240 And he would base his entire rant around that scripture and around the agenda that he was trying to do pretty much 199 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,360 Is what happened? Yeah, so what we're kind of and I guess 200 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,000 I'll go into it too, but what we're kind of the things that made you like 201 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,200 Step away from church. Like what was kind of 202 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,800 nail in the coffin for you where you were like, hey man, like 203 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,680 I love god, but I don't know if I could go to church right now. Man, that's kind of a long 204 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,480 A little bit of a long things a good thing. We have time 205 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:39,320 Well, essentially if you have listened to our other podcasts or other episodes and things like that 206 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,920 We've talked about uh appeared in time where we were working so hard, but we would take our liberties, right? 207 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,200 We would go to Hooters and you know skip out part of church 208 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,840 We would do different things and we'd go play basketball and you know what I mean 209 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:58,200 we would literally since we were there all the time we took our liberties and we did what we wanted to do and 210 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:04,680 At that time, you know Chris got burnt out and he left went to the explorers. I became 211 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,920 the assistant youth leader there like I was talking about 212 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:15,720 And what ends up happening was I end up getting burnt out funny enough story and this was how much of a 213 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,360 I guess goody-to-choose Christian kid that didn't know too much crazy stuff 214 00:17:20,360 --> 00:17:26,280 My rebellion music was Motley Crue and I loved Motley Crue and I'd sit out in the park a lot and 215 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:32,120 Listen and shout out the devil and be like yeah, I'm mad at church and then I'd go in there and play the happy face and 216 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,400 Do what I needed to do and do the role that I needed to do 217 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,760 Um, so pretty burnt out there, but we ended up moving out to Texas shortly thereafter 218 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:46,200 So we moved to Texas new beginnings new start everything like that and Chris wasn't in the explorers 219 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:52,520 We were part of the same church together and so we started volunteering and doing everything together 220 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,960 Um, and you know, so it was fine there for a bit 221 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:05,160 I don't know man. So the church that we moved to when we moved out to Texas it it was a mega church and 222 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,520 It had some like family connections 223 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,760 one of my family members was 224 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:17,160 uh, the deacon of the year over there which looked like a freaking heisman trophy and um, literally 225 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,000 You know 226 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:24,360 We kind of thought we had placement in this church, but the thing was so big nobody cares right out 227 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,920 I'll put it to you this way. That's one of the issues with mega churches 228 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,040 There's plenty of them 229 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:34,360 But when it comes down to its core sometimes church is just too big to be a tight knit community like they need to be 230 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:36,360 But that's a different subject 231 00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:37,880 um 232 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:43,400 We got there and we started volunteering and I'll be honest. I really didn't mesh with the people at that church 233 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Like I really didn't I didn't mesh with a lot of the people at the previous church 234 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,520 But I guess since we'd known them for so long that it's like, okay 235 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,800 We know who they are. We know what they're about and everything like that 236 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,280 and of course coming in senior year is kind of interesting because 237 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,520 Um as Chris and I have talked about again, um 238 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,600 You know, they would allow him to hang out or want him to hang out 239 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,600 Because he was college age, but I was a year younger. So I was a senior in high school 240 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:15,880 So they wouldn't want that so Chris was like nah, we're not gonna have that so literally it was 241 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:22,200 I don't know. I just really didn't mesh. I I meshed with two people and that was old g-bows will call old g-bows 242 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,280 you know, I'm talking about and 243 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,680 the 244 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,680 How do I describe this? 245 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,920 four-wheeler mom, I'll say that 246 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,520 and those are probably the two dudes that I you know 247 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:41,640 You know got along with the most but everybody else I really just did not mesh with at all and you know, I 248 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,760 tried to pick up some gals and 249 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,400 I'll be honest with you that did not go well 250 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:54,520 um, they were questionable at best or as the kids nowadays say they were quite sus and 251 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,360 You know, it was just like I just did not mesh there 252 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,600 And so I wanted to explore because this was also a non-denominational church 253 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:10,120 But this was a lot more broad and open like they really didn't I wouldn't say they really followed too much because they didn't 254 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,760 What do you say their background came from maybe maybe southern baptist kind of no 255 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:24,200 It was a siblings of god for sure, but they were so big that like the legalism and stuff was like not apparent 256 00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:26,840 Yeah, and I mean it definitely happened on some level 257 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:31,320 but maybe I just didn't get far enough in it because I wasn't there long enough and I just 258 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:37,000 And at the time they had ended up getting bigger like they were building on it was already a big church 259 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:43,800 But then they built on this whole new facility and everything like that. And I don't know. I just lost my I was just like, yeah 260 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,960 I'm good. So moved on to the to the next church 261 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,360 And I tried what was called an axe 29 church. I don't know if you've heard of the next 29 church 262 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,440 The drinking church the church that lets you drink 263 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,520 Yes, the church that lets you drink essentially it's anything in moderation, right? 264 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,520 they believe in anything in moderation and 265 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,320 Yeah, and that sounded appealing to me at age 18 266 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:10,760 but at the same time it was 267 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,640 Not and maybe this was just the experience of the church that I went to 268 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,880 First of all, it was like two blocks away from the church that we were talking about 269 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,160 it was like in that neighborhood right behind that church and 270 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,560 It was a small place 271 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:33,080 But it was mostly college kids and think about like the hipster college kids that have to have their coffee and they had the nice little 272 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,360 coffee bar and it was it was geared strictly towards college kids 273 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,640 And I'll be honest even when I was college age. I kind of didn't mesh with the college kids 274 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,200 Be I'll be completely honest with you 275 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,920 Funny enough story as well 276 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,160 And this is just me speaking of chris for a second 277 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,720 You know who was there from that church? 278 00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,920 From the original church that when we moved to texas that I was like, what are you doing here? 279 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,240 Yeah, I think you I think you told me 280 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,200 Her dad worked in insurance. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, what are you doing here? Anyways, um 281 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:16,680 Because that's something else about church, you know, like it's something if you bouncing around at churches. It's a weird thing 282 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,080 That's how we were always taught like you always kind of stick to that one church 283 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,560 And if you kind of moving around there's kind of a weird thing about that. But anyways, so 284 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:34,840 But I went to that church and I kid you not man, nobody said a word to me like nobody said nothing to me. Everybody was real weird 285 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,600 um 286 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,960 even even like the pastor was weird and 287 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,600 I just remember the sermon was about how 288 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,560 he 289 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:47,880 had a stroke 290 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,880 at the age of 35 and 291 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,000 And literally came through it with the Lord's help and that's fine 292 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:58,120 But I mean the message was maybe 15 minutes didn't have any scriptural backing and was basically his story 293 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:03,720 And it was then like worship before and then prayer after and their service. It's like, what was that? 294 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,040 um 295 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,040 I don't know and then 296 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:13,160 Uh, I tried several different other churches didn't really didn't really mesh 297 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,960 um, and then started dating a girl and literally 298 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:24,920 We went to a church that was south of town that is no longer in existence that had many campuses 299 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:27,720 and um 300 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,440 I kid you not they started off worship with they're like, we're gonna do our secular song now 301 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,800 I was like what and they started off with an acoustic set of mirrors by 302 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,520 Justin Timberlake 303 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,200 and 304 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:47,640 Listen, I'll be honest with you with how much I've had issues with some church and things like that and 305 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,720 What all all of this is saying I'll put it to this way 306 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,240 I've heard many theologies many really 307 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,120 And I you know if you're into that thing, I don't mean to say this but it's stupid 308 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:06,120 Okay, it's a check the block kind of church a lot of the and a lot of the theologies are just whacked out 309 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:08,120 They're taking very small snippets 310 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,240 And they are making it into fact 311 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:17,000 I mean it's the fox newses of church literally they'll take one small thing that's in the scripture read the rest of the scripture 312 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,000 It gives it more context 313 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:20,440 anyways 314 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:21,800 um 315 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,800 You know and then 316 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:30,200 Here's where I I think I really got burnt out so all that happened then 317 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,880 um, my parents which I hope they're not listening 318 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,520 um 319 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:44,280 Ended up taking us to this church and when I say taking us because I currently wasn't going to church then all of a sudden they decided 320 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,440 Eh, well you need to go to church 321 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:53,320 And if you're going to live under our roof, you're going to go to church. Okay, fine. So started going to this church 322 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,600 And wouldn't you know it? 323 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,080 Nobody had they had no volunteers. They had no nothing. So I had 324 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:08,120 I ran sound pretty much every church experience we got chris has to I mean we were tech guys, you know 325 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,760 We literally ran sound lights. We did the whole we did the whole shebang 326 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,880 You know all the time lyrics everything and so stepped into that role 327 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,760 and 328 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,760 It was just the most stupid thing 329 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,760 Yeah, they would just harp on the most stupid thing and I'm just going to go into this for just a moment 330 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:34,040 I don't know if you remember this chris, but there was a sound board and they had given it to us from south plains college 331 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,360 like south plains college had donated it to this church 332 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,840 And he had put it on a default setting the guy that delivered it 333 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,400 They took a picture of the default setting of the sound board 334 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,040 And literally they did not want you to touch any of the dials or move anything 335 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,800 Now for those of you who don't know about sound equipment sound boards things like that. No big deal 336 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:01,080 I'll just put it to this way sound is dynamic. You have to change things. You have to tweak things 337 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,160 It's not constant 338 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,440 Especially when you're talking about worship at church 339 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,040 You have your fast songs then you go into your slow songs 340 00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:16,600 You have your worship songs. You have your prayer songs. You have all the different genres. You have the different feels you have all that stuff 341 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,960 They would make you go back and I kid you not 342 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,040 they just 343 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,520 the the thing that made me lose it was 344 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,760 one day this lady came back there 345 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:33,240 And she just chewed me out of you always changing you always changing yours and I said if you you know whatever 346 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,720 And I quit and I left 347 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:42,040 And literally I tried to go to some other churches didn't really work out shortly thereafter my parents decided to leave 348 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,960 Because my father decided to play chancellor palpatine and it didn't work out and 349 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,840 Anyways, then we go over to 350 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:57,240 Another church which they went over there because the previous church I was talking about was really poor like they didn't have a lot of money 351 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:02,520 They were hemorrhaging a lot of money the stupid part that I thought about it was nobody was giving ties and offering right? 352 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:08,200 Which you got to do your mandatory 10% plus a little extra sometimes, but anyways 353 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,160 They weren't doing that. So the 354 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,960 pastor like literally was 355 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:16,600 Having to drive a school bus not taking a salary 356 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:18,280 Meanwhile 357 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:23,160 He had a parse niche and another parse niche that two of the pastors were living in rent free 358 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,400 Then they were letting the church fans out to 359 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,560 They're freaking 360 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,560 Like, you know parishioners there 361 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,880 For free because their car broke down or whatever and literally it's like bro. I understand it's a church 362 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:40,680 But we can't run it so much like a charity, you know, like one dude took an amp 363 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,000 Never returned it like I'm gonna borrow this for my band on Saturday night 364 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,320 Never freaking returned it stuff like that, you know, so the church that they went to after that 365 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:55,320 Wasn't hemorrhaging money. In fact, there were millionaires had a car dealership on the freaking side of it, which I think is kind of weird 366 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,320 Um 367 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:02,200 And that one was totally totally different, but what did that guy do? 368 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:09,080 It was during the whole election and who did he pump up Ted Cruz Ted Cruz Ted Cruz that guy was all over Ted Cruz 369 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,080 And he was all about his book too 370 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,480 And so all that being said, there's a lot that I had 371 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,440 Gone through that it just it's just 372 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,400 I hate the guys that are all about their book 373 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,040 Like I'm glad that you have a book don't get me wrong, but at the same time 374 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,360 It shouldn't take away anything from the message and what we're here for so to sum it up 375 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:35,880 To sum it all up. It sounds like you were saying that 376 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,760 Number one people just valued your work instead of who you are 377 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,800 It really take the time to have a relationship with you 378 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,360 Number two a lot of the theology was wack and number three 379 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:52,680 They made it more about themselves than about Jesus and the main thing 380 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:59,240 So that kind of sum it up absolutely and uh, we had a word for the the last one self-licking ice cream cones 381 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,760 Those ones are like, oh, we're so great our group is so great 382 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,960 Look at all the good stuff we're doing. Yeah, I think I think what kind of burned me out is kind of the same thing 383 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,960 I think it was um 384 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,560 Just the strict thing of like hey, you're always messing it was never encouraging 385 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,920 It was never life-giving and that's kind of like what church is supposed to be 386 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,120 Yeah, you're supposed to like if I'm severely messing up like if I'm 387 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:26,760 Smoking crack then I pray that my friends will tell me hey, you're goofing up. You need to get on the right track 388 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,880 Um, but it was always like 389 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,360 Oh, well, you're not raising your hands enough or oh, you're not worshiping enough or 390 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,800 You're not you don't have big enough faith or 391 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,680 No, it was always criticizing and I think too. It was also that no one really cared to like 392 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,840 Have a relationship or I didn't feel a sense of community 393 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,800 Um, and I think that was a big thing man 394 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,840 Like it was you know, you would go there and nobody would say anything to you or they would treat you like dirt 395 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,840 It was very clicked up. It was very hard to get to the point where you're like 396 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,480 Clicked up. It was very much like high school to where there was clicks for everything and 397 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,640 You know, I mean for the longest time, bro. It was us that was 398 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,880 Saying what's up to people? Yeah, and I think it was kind of like, okay 399 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,560 You expect that from people that don't love Jesus like you expect them to be clicked up and everything 400 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,400 But I found out was like people that don't love Jesus were more accepting of me 401 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,760 Than the own church I was going to I mean we talk about it 402 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:30,360 But like we went bull riding and we went that like a couple times we went back to visit at the rodeo 403 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,520 And we had only been there like one or two times 404 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,560 But every time we went back those guys play. Hey, man, like how's it going? 405 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:40,360 Like we're so glad you're here and you know, how's life going like they would ask us questions 406 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,280 You'd be like, oh, yeah, I remember when we talked about this 407 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,880 How's this going and it felt like a sense of community and family and I was sitting here going like 408 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,560 Is it church supposed to feel that way and kind of like what you said like there were new people that would come all the time 409 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:59,080 And nobody would say a word to him and we would say like we would talk to him and buy them because we knew how it felt to be the 410 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,600 Outsiders and I remember bringing this up to the youth pastor and 411 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,320 Micah and I were in the office 412 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,840 because I think I had made a post in my 16 year old self making a dumb post and 413 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,520 He had called me in the office and we kind of aired our grievances 414 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:21,560 And I remember kind of the thing that like was the beginning of the end for me was he drew a dot on this paper 415 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:27,320 And he said what's on this paper and we said a dot and he was like what else is on this paper? 416 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:33,400 I was like, it's a black dot and then Michael was like it's not all the way colored in and then 417 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,640 Uh, he was just like what else do you see what else do you and we just kept talking about the dot 418 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,400 And he was like see you're only focusing on the dot, but you're not focusing on this all the rest of the paper 419 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,080 So you're just focusing on this one problem when the rest of it is so great 420 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:53,080 And basically he spun it to where it was my fault like and the problem that I was bringing up to him 421 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,960 And after then I said, you know what man? I'm tired of it 422 00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,600 I'm tired of people only talking to me to ask me to do something or run something 423 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,080 You know, they treated us like workhorses 424 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:09,640 And you know and it's like but they believed you and indoctrinated you like if you really love Jesus 425 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,240 This is what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to serve as hard as you can and you work your way to have a great spot in heaven 426 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,200 And you can't say no if you say no something's wrong 427 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,760 Something's wrong if you're saying no if you say no that there is definitely something wrong with you 428 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:29,160 And I reason why I went to explorers the police explorers was because they treated me like family man like they 429 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,360 They were my family and you know, they brought me and these are people that didn't even believe in Jesus 430 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:40,120 And so I had to sit and wrestle for a while with like being like if these people are supposed to love Jesus 431 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:46,280 And they treat me bad and these people don't love Jesus, but they're still my family like what's going on here? 432 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,640 So I had some 433 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,840 You know theology to wrestle with and I and I'll just say this I'd be like 434 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,920 Just because church people treat you bad doesn't mean that God's bad or God treats you bad 435 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,920 So I and I wrestle with that for a long time. Yeah, I I'm gonna go back to something though when we were talking 436 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,680 I had that same 437 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,960 Thing happened, but it was with the bull riders man because when we were hanging out with them and doing stuff 438 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,080 It was just like you said they remembered everything they even remember 439 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,720 You know, it wasn't just they remembered your name 440 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,840 They remembered what bull you rode last time where you were from what school you went to 441 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:26,760 They remembered I played football for a particular school and asked how they were doing and all this other stuff and 442 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,000 By definition and by what we were taught 443 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:37,080 These people are supposed to be the scum of the earth almost these are supposed to be the people that are 444 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,640 Nasty doing everything wrong 445 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,760 Pell bound and just you know, we shouldn't really I mean you're 446 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,200 In the church we grew up in it wasn't as bad as some of the other like Pentecostal 447 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,560 Like I know of churches, but it was still definitely like you shouldn't hang out with those kind of people 448 00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:01,000 You know you probably shouldn't be hanging out with those kind of people because these people drank these people slept around 449 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:07,080 I mean the gals that were there had slept with every dude there, you know like literally it was just 450 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,160 It was like the epiphany of what we thought was terrible 451 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,120 And we're sitting here going but it's not and it's actually 452 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:23,560 They're actually nice and they're actually good decent people to us. This is really really weird like this is 453 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,120 How am I supposed to you know, it was like the the weirdest 454 00:34:29,240 --> 00:34:31,320 I don't know. It was it was really strange 455 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,280 I think it's like you grow up and you have the maturity now to realize okay, just because 456 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,840 You know one church acts like this that doesn't mean that they're all bad, right? 457 00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:45,800 Or just because all these bull riders act good doesn't mean that they're all saints 458 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,400 So I think it was for us. We had just been longing for that 459 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:57,160 Community and longing for just kind of a place to belong and longing for a place where people encouraged us and not been like 460 00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,640 Oh, well, you're not a good christian or you're a bad 461 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,720 Do you have bad faith or you've messed up or you're not doing enough? 462 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,600 Yeah, or you're I think that's the big thing that it was for me 463 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:11,080 I and I know you probably did too. I would always beat myself up. It was like I'm not doing enough 464 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:18,760 You know, god doesn't you know, I failed my math test this week because god's punishing me because I didn't do I didn't serve last week or something 465 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:23,400 And that's a really messed up theology because that's not the way they got at no not at all 466 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:28,760 and you know, I think about some of the other people that we sat there and sell group with and 467 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,160 I could think of one in particular and I feel so bad for this kid because you know 468 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,880 We had talked about him for a while about his theology and things like that 469 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:43,560 But he truly believed that if you did something bad enough god would just strike you down dead 470 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:50,440 Like over one thing over one thing over one sin that you did like god would just strike you down 471 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:56,280 And I think it was also too like people just being ugly. I mean, you know, you got into it with the worship 472 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:03,160 Worship youth worship leader who just treated you really ugly for you know, you the youth to sum it all up 473 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,520 The youth pastors wife had told you hey, we need to start right now 474 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,880 Let's wrap it up and you are the sound guy. So you're telling the band like hey youth pastors wife wants to start 475 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,360 So we're gonna start and he'd be like no, this is my band 476 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:20,360 We're gonna start where I want to and just treated you really ugly and then I remember a couple 477 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:23,080 a couple 478 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:27,400 Of one of the kids that you were a small group leader of they invited you to their house 479 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:34,440 And you got in trouble because you talked their son how to play blackjack and they got they really like ran over your case 480 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:36,440 Just for teaching them a card game. Oh, yeah 481 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:44,360 They really but they had talked to the youth pastor and everything else and like I had a meeting in his office about it 482 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,480 It was a whole big thing, but I mean the the thing was you put me in charge of 483 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,840 You know 12 to 13 middle school boys 484 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,120 I'm just saying 485 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,720 We didn't have 486 00:36:57,720 --> 00:37:03,160 Really anything besides a deck of cards. So I mean we could play go fish or I could teach them how to play 487 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:09,240 21 I didn't tell them what it was. I didn't say like oh you can go to the casino and bet money on this 488 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,160 I just said hey, this is 21 489 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,000 I'm gonna give you two cards and you could say if you want more if you want to stay right there 490 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,480 And you're playing against me and explained it that way 491 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,480 Um, there's definitely worse things that we could have been doing 492 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,960 for sure, but 493 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,960 It was extremely 494 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,520 I mean you you couldn't hardly do anything out of place 495 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,480 In their mind, you know 496 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,720 I mean heck even pepper spraying you in the face. They got upset about that 497 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,360 They you know, I mean 498 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,920 Looking back on it if if I have one of my church kids pepper spray another kid in the face 499 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:49,320 I'd be pretty upset about it, but it was just it was there was man. There wasn't I would just say there wasn't love there 500 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:56,840 You know, uh, maybe there was but like you just couldn't feel the love and I felt I felt like some people cared, um 501 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,960 Like uh, yeah, I felt like some people cared, but it was how do you describe it? 502 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,800 It was almost like that passive care like yeah, you here 503 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:11,080 So we're gonna love and care about you, but you felt like if you saw them on the street 504 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:15,960 They probably wouldn't acknowledge that you were there or say hey to you or something like that 505 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,440 You know what I mean? You had that you had the people that just straight up didn't really talk to you 506 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,000 and then you had 507 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,000 You had some people that would but most people were just kind of 508 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,200 I guess casual 509 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,120 Relationships like it was just like I know them but really and truly 510 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:41,720 I mean every time we would go on trips and stuff like that we talked about going to six flags and doing like church trips and stuff like that 511 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,160 Uh, we had a very small group. Whereas a lot of other people traveled in very big groups 512 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,600 Uh, it was like chris and I and maybe two or three other people every time when we would go to those trips 513 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:58,360 Just because that's that's how it was is uh, we really only meshed with maybe two or three people who we were 514 00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:01,720 You know 515 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:06,040 Cool with at the time and those kind of came and went to be honest because some people were just like 516 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,640 Ah, they ain't kind of they ain't cool no more kind of let's kind of take a little turd and kind of go the positive way 517 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:14,200 how did you like maybe heal from it or 518 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,080 recover from it or 519 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,640 Kind of get past it. Well, and I will say 520 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,800 I am still on that road to recovery if you will 521 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:25,480 um 522 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,600 I go to church passively and what I mean by that is I go every now and then 523 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920 um, and right now I'm going to a Lutheran church, which is 524 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,560 Definitely different than how I was raised 525 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:38,840 but 526 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,040 um 527 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,200 What I like about it the best is 528 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,520 It's scripturally based and that's exactly what I was looking for 529 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:53,480 Um, and there's not that expectation and I'm still worried that that expectation is there and that's why I don't go all the time 530 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,560 um 531 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,640 That I'm going to get sucked in I don't know I'm going to be doing a thousand things before too long 532 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:00,600 You know what I mean? 533 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,960 Like I'll be I'll be the volunteer and I'll be the lead of this and the 534 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,440 And you know and I'll be there on sunday 535 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,320 And it's one thing when it's like you right and you're there on sunday from sun up to sundown 536 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,440 But that's your job in sunday's your prime time. It's like for me. I don't I don't want to do that 537 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:21,240 I want to go to church. I want to have our relationship with god sure not necessarily take the block 538 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,480 I want to get fed but I also don't want to make it my life because 539 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,200 The biggest thing that we've talked about this entire time was church was our life 540 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,400 It wasn't just a it was our second job. I mean school was our first job 541 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,040 Church was our second job. We were there. I mean there were some days 542 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:45,000 We were there or some weeks. We were there every night of the week. I mean, that's just how it was 543 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:46,760 so 544 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:52,280 Now that i'm on that other side of that I understand that that's not how it has to be and that's one of the biggest things 545 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,120 I understand that's not how it has to be and how I came to that conclusion 546 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,960 Only 10 of the church really volunteers and does anything right 547 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,920 But the 90 percent sit there and still partake and nobody's mad at them, right? 548 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,640 Nobody's sitting there going that 90 sucks and they need to get off there behind and do something 549 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,520 Maybe the salty people like us who have been burnt out 550 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,640 but you know for the most part it's like 551 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,400 When you go to those bigger churches or when you go to the more well organized church like the one that I've been going to 552 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:24,920 literally 553 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,120 They have enough volunteers and they have backup volunteers 554 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,680 and it's like they you know 555 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,520 people aren't 556 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:38,280 Burnt out because they're doing 40 things so I know that things are taken care of to where I necessarily don't have to 557 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,360 Volunteer to keep the thing afloat 558 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,760 Because that's my biggest thing. I do have a big heart 559 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:47,480 And so the hard part for me is sitting there if I see something not being done 560 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:52,840 It's like man, we really need volunteers. I will be that person to say no problem. I got you covered 561 00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:55,720 But it's a slippery slope a lot of the time 562 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,200 um, but to to keep going 563 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,280 um 564 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,280 From the bad theology 565 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:05,720 I have a bad or I have a very 566 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,840 Tight radar for that stuff now 567 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,360 I could sweep it a mile away and it's it sucks because when you're trying to get back into it 568 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:21,960 It's very hard because you're sitting here and anything that somebody says you're like. Oop. Oop. Yep. I I mean there was even a pastor one time 569 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:27,960 I went to a christmas service and the guy was talking about he was like, yeah, you know, we all know what christmas is really about 570 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,520 It's about the presence and everything and he wasn't joking 571 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,400 And like that just I didn't have to listen to the rest of it. It just shut me down 572 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,480 And it was over the smallest thing 573 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,680 But that's what happens when you've heard so much bad theology out there when you start to get that taste of like 574 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:48,040 Ooh, this might be going wrong. This might be going. You're like, I'm gonna stop this right now because it makes you mad 575 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,200 It makes me physically mad still. It's just like don't be saying that crap 576 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:58,760 Especially when it's the personal agenda stuff and that's another reason why I like the church that I'm going to now is because 577 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:04,440 They're very scriptually based and they're very fact based and they also understand 578 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,520 And this is what my biggest deal was. They also understand 579 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:13,880 That chris's experience through life even through church and things my experience through life 580 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:20,040 Even though we've had similar experiences are going to be different. I can read the bible and get something out of it 581 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:25,160 He can read it the same passage that I read and get something totally different out of it because 582 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,080 We've had our own dynamic life and that's the biggest thing too 583 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:35,080 Most organized religions nowadays put God in a box and that's something I cannot stand 584 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,480 He's such a dynamic guy and you just look at the bible, right? It can go a million different directions 585 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:47,320 Some things are very black and white and cut and dry. Absolutely. But there are some things to where it is just 586 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:53,720 It can apply to multiple you can read the same passage in multiple times in your life and it can help you in different ways 587 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,600 You know and so 588 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:58,840 It's just it's one of those things to where 589 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,560 I 590 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,560 My beef is with religion 591 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,840 Not with not with Christianity or following Christ 592 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,040 If you're doing it to the purest form and here's something else 593 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,960 I'm going to remind everybody too and this is the biggest and hardest lesson I had to learn 594 00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,960 And 595 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,720 Where are the best places for sinners and people who are doing wrong? It's the church 596 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,880 And so the thing is you're going to be full of and that's where you're going to be full of and they're going to be sitting all next to you 597 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,080 And that's understandable, but at the same time the best churches 598 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:36,200 Operate with that human error, but at the same time they weed that stuff out in positive and effective ways 599 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,520 and so 600 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,520 That's the main difference and so 601 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:47,400 We're still in the beginning stages of going through this church in particular all as well so far, but at the same time 602 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,720 You know you still got to be that little bit of leery at the very beginning because yeah 603 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,400 Everything's fine and dandy because you don't know the nitty gritty of everything just yet 604 00:44:55,720 --> 00:45:00,680 But hopefully everything's going to be okay, but still kind of in that process to answer your question 605 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:06,040 Yeah, man, and there's never going to be like a perfect. There's always going to be something about any church that 606 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,280 um, you know 607 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,280 That it's not always going to be perfect or up to your liking you might not like all the worship song 608 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,840 But I think I think kind of going back to it. I think what we did is we put 609 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,600 Working at church in place of our relationship with God and I think that kind of got 610 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:26,920 That's where it gets gritty because if you're just focused on what you do for church 611 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,720 And you don't really have the relationship with God then you're going to get burned out soon as those people fail you 612 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,800 I think for me, man, um 613 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:38,440 Honestly, and I'll be honest about it because it was it was a time in my life that I was going through tough 614 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:44,280 I had to go to therapy to be honest with you and I had to I had a therapy with a licensed professional 615 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,440 Counselor, you know, he was a believer. He was Christian and everything like that 616 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,440 But it wasn't like one of those everything was applying spiritually 617 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,520 He applied everything mentally physically 618 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,120 Emotionally and then he would ask like when we get to the spiritual parts 619 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:00,440 He'd be like, hey, can I have this spiritual conversation with you? 620 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:04,920 He would ask me about it, but it was one of those things where man, I had to unlearn 621 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,120 Uh, a lot of bad theology and realize like hey 622 00:46:09,240 --> 00:46:12,680 Like I'm not serving a god that's you know there to get me 623 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,840 I'm serving god who loves me and I'm not serving a god who's always 624 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:22,280 Criticizing my worst mistakes. I'm criticizing or I'm serving a god that like looks at my 625 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,600 What he made because the bible says that we're fearfully and wonderfully made right so 626 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:33,560 You know so I had to do a lot of unlearning and that was even after going on staff at a 627 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:38,040 Uh, a spiritually abusive church like I would get called kind of the same thing 628 00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,960 It was like, oh, well, you're not praying enough and we don't have enough numbers 629 00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,600 because you didn't pray enough this week or 630 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:52,040 Um, you're going to lunch too many times with the maintenance guy and the worship pastor and that's promoting disunity in our staff 631 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:58,280 And you have a bad spirit and I was like hey, man like anybody could show up to lunch like this isn't a closed invitation, man 632 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:06,200 um, and so it was like I would get uh called in the office and in trouble quote-unquote for a little I got in trouble 633 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:12,440 one time for going to another church for their conference and uh, they were like, yeah, you need to 634 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,680 Be here and you need to be getting stuff to feed our people and they would tell uh, they would say 635 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:24,680 Our church is like a restaurant. We can only serve the people that come and which is totally not true because the bible says that 636 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:30,120 You know, Jesus leaves the 99 and goes after the one and so we're supposed to share Jesus love with everybody 637 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:31,800 And I always had a problem with that 638 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,080 But I think a lot of it was of course god doing the healing in my heart 639 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:38,840 But man, I had I had to have some conversations with some professionals 640 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:44,280 And if you're going through church heart and stuff or spiritual abuse, um, don't be ashamed to go to therapy 641 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:49,800 There's nothing wrong with that. No, you got to go through and go to therapy and talk about some of that stuff because 642 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:53,080 there's a lot of 643 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:58,440 unrooting and a lot of unlearning things and especially if you've been going to church since you were a kid 644 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,480 Like if you have been born into the church is what they say 645 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:08,680 Like heck yeah, because you're talking about stuff that was rooted in your mind since you were very very very very very small 646 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:14,920 And this is where I turn over the leaf and talk about parents that are going to take their kids to church 647 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,680 You want to be very careful of what the church is about and what they are doing 648 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,920 You want to be very cautious 649 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,960 as well 650 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,800 Because the thing is 651 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,320 All may seem fine. I'm sure our parents thought everything was fine, right? 652 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,680 But were they really checking the content of what was going on and what we were being taught and what we were being told? 653 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,320 No, that didn't happen and so 654 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,720 it's 655 00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:41,640 Our situation could have been worse. Absolutely. But at the same time 656 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,920 It's hard when you get to this point in life because there's a lot of stuff. I'm having to unlearn 657 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:47,640 I mean 658 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,800 I'm I will be completely honest with you 659 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,840 It took me near about 10 years to get back into church nine 10 years to get back into church 660 00:48:55,160 --> 00:49:01,160 Just because of how I mean just barely going to church would make me angry about a lot of this stuff that would happen 661 00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:02,760 and so 662 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:05,480 That's where you got to seek professional help and understand 663 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:11,240 That you got to have tools that maybe you don't personally possess because that's totally okay to ask people for help 664 00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:13,240 And there are those people that have that 665 00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,200 um, and it doesn't have to be a spiritually 666 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,280 um, you know licensed professional or anything like that 667 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,160 so it's just 668 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,400 I don't know 669 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:30,200 And this conversation is one that we could go forever on because it's 670 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,600 We're barely scratching the surface where we're talking about like we're jumping around with points 671 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,200 But each point that we're going to we can go on to eons about 672 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,320 What it is and what we've gone through with it 673 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:43,320 um 674 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,720 Like I'm sitting here looking at it and I'm going man. I can't believe we've talked this long about all this stuff already 675 00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:51,640 But yeah, and I think I think it's important for us to talk about it 676 00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,560 Um, not for us to bash church or bash anything 677 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,600 But I think to help people man because I think a lot of people 678 00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:03,320 Kind of they have a bad experience or they get hurt by the church and whatever way that is 679 00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,600 And then they totally write God off and it's like, you know, man 680 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:10,760 Just because you had a bad experience doesn't make you a bad God, but I want to help anybody 681 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,560 It's not for me to bash anybody. I just want to help people 682 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,120 You know help people get through it because it because for some people it is 683 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:23,160 It might be a little bit slower process for them to ease in back in the church and 684 00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:27,000 That's okay. Like if it takes you a little bit slower process 685 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,960 That's okay and remember something and this is something that I remember through that whole process as well 686 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,240 It says in the bible where two or more gathered he will be there 687 00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:40,120 So really and truly you can make your church anytime as long as you have another person 688 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,400 Crack open that Bobby you can have yourself a church service anywhere you go 689 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:49,400 And that's what what it says. So just because you're not going to the brick and mortar building at the time because 690 00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,360 You know the religion portions pissing you off 691 00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,480 There's you know, you can still maintain a relationship with Christ and that's the biggest thing that I think a lot of people miss 692 00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,960 And it's 693 00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:05,640 It's honestly, it's natural because most churches promote if you're not going to church. You don't have a relationship with Christ 694 00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:07,160 and 695 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:12,360 I mean even even ours did too. I mean, there was a lot of if you're not coming every single week 696 00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,800 You know, you don't have a relationship with Christ and that's not true 697 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:21,800 Church is helpful because it is and a healthy church you have that community and you're not going to have a relationship with Christ 698 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:26,600 You know you have that community and you have that people that's around you and you know, like Michael said you can have church 699 00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:32,680 Any time the church is the people not the building but don't let the pendulum swing the other way and be like, yeah 700 00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:38,280 I have church on the golf course and you're just playing golf like that's not church. That's not church. Yeah 701 00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:40,040 Yeah, no 702 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:45,400 No, trust me. Trust me. Micah had church at the airport a few times and that's not that's not church 703 00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,840 It's just that's just you going and hanging out there in church time 704 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,400 Yeah, exactly. So it's 705 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,000 It's it's just one of those things to where 706 00:51:55,720 --> 00:51:57,880 you know 707 00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,880 It's always that balance, right? 708 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,160 but 709 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:06,680 Chris is right church is a place of community and I'll tell you this much if you go to one that does good potlucks 710 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,960 You're you're doing. Yeah, let me get it. Let me get on this subject too 711 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:16,280 That's the thing that is missing from the modern church right now is people don't know how to give a good church potluck, bro 712 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:21,560 And if you don't know you ain't never been to a church potluck. It's where most of the time if you're going to a good one 713 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,080 It's where all the old ladies they bring out their 714 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:30,760 Best dishes and they all bring it all together and it's just one big feast. But nowadays man 715 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,760 These young people don't know how to do a church part potluck and it's and if it's in a toxic church 716 00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:44,040 Then it'll be good food and the old ladies will be angry at each other because sister betty brought the good china 717 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,480 And she said she wouldn't and I have the best platter and she stole my she stole my spoon 718 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,520 And that's my serving spoon see my initials are on it and you get to watch dinner in a show 719 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:00,120 So well, we just wanted to I know it's a little bit different from our usual 720 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:06,280 Thing we wanted to change it up. We will be back to our regular scheduled programming next week 721 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,680 But uh, hopefully this episode 722 00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:13,880 So helps you out and at least the or entertain you and gives you a different perspective on 723 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:21,160 Things maybe you've never thought about heard about because you know, some of these some of this stuff to our listeners around the world 724 00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:23,560 might be rather different and 725 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:30,520 Might not have heard about some of this stuff. So yeah, the people in singapore are probably like, oh church like, you know 726 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:37,480 We're talking about american church. It's different western eastern church and church man people know how to have church in africa 727 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,400 They know how to have church in china, bro. You can go to them church. They know how to have church 728 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:46,680 They get down. I mean malaysia singapore. Y'all know how to get down too. I mean, I will say this 729 00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:53,320 African-american church, they know how to get down too. Maybe that's what I'm missing. Maybe I should just go to an african-american church 730 00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,960 You know, maybe that's what we're missing too. Yeah, that's what we're missing because I always love the music 731 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,480 I always love the preaching. Yeah, it's always it's always great 732 00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,840 Anyways, now you're gonna be there for five hours, but it's great 733 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:09,480 Oh, but you're gonna get spiritually fad and you're gonna be sweating from head to toe by the time you leave 734 00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:14,760 Well, tell them where they can go to find us tv trash can dot com. That's tv trash can dot com 735 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:18,600 Go give us a look. All right. Well, I guess it's time to sign off 736 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:35,240 I'm Chris and I'm Michael and this is the donor box podcast. We'll see you next time. 737 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:50,600 Uh-huh