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Thank you, everyone. We're going to go ahead and get started. So my name is Brian Jensen

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from the marketing team at rss.com. And we're excited to have everyone join us today. It

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looks like we have people from all over the world. We're incredibly excited for this interactive

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webinar on value for value. And Nick's going to share, you know, just like the title says,

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how to build unbreakable relationships with your listeners. In addition to Nick, we have

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Chris Fisher from Jupiter Broadcasting. And both will be sharing insights, case studies

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about how podcasters like you can use value for value to generate more meaningful engagement

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with your followers and fans. Nick, over to you.

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Great. Thanks a lot, Brian. Yeah. Hey, everyone. Welcome to this webinar on value for value.

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My name is Nick. I'm the co-founder of Fountain podcasts. Fountain is a podcasting 2.0 app

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that helps podcasters turn their biggest fans into supporters and generate more valuable

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engagement with their audience. And all of this is powered by the Bitcoin Lightning Network.

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This content is going to be tailored towards both new and existing kind of experienced

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podcasters who are interested in value for value and are really looking for practical

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guidance on how to harness its true potential. Some of you might have just ticked the box

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on the RSS.com website that says enable value for value for my show. Some of you may have

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already started experimenting with value for value. But hopefully there's going to be stuff

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in this presentation which all of you guys can learn from. There's a lot of terminology

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thrown around podcasting 2.0, value for value, Bitcoin Lightning Network. Don't worry if

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you're not familiar with these terms, you soon will be by the end of this presentation.

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So I'll just give a quick rundown of what we're going to cover today. So in the first

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part, we're just going to do an introduction to podcasting 2.0 and value for value, how

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these things have come into existence, what problems they're solving, and also how they

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work on a practical level. In part two, which is the main section, this is where we're going

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to be learning from some of the podcasters who have already started integrating value

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for value into their show and sharing some actionable guidance and success stories from

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them that we can learn from. And in the final part, I'll be joined by Chris, who is one

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of the hosts on Jupiter Broadcasting. He has many different podcasts, which are kind of

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value for value enabled, and they're doing really, really well. So there's lots we can

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learn from him. So let's get into part one, which is the introduction to podcasting 2.0

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and value for value. I'm just going to start with a clip featuring the late Steve Jobs

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from the launch of Apple podcasts back in 2005, which sets the tone quite nicely, I

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think.

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Adam Curry is one of the guys that invented podcasting, and he has a podcast called The

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Daily Source. Let me go ahead and subscribe to that, and we can go listen to his latest

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one. Just click on it.

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I've actually had to restart the show three times. My Mac has been acting up like a motherfucker.

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I don't know what's going on. I think it's something to do with the file system.

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Okay. How do you control, say, dirty stuff?

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So very poignant question, and it kind of takes us onto the point of podcasting hasn't

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really protected free speech. And this is really why podcasting 2.0 began. So if we

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look back, ever since Apple introduced podcasts to iTunes, their centralized index of podcasts

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has become widely used by many other podcast apps that rely on its directory of podcasts

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to populate their apps with content. This made it really easy for new podcast apps to

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launch, and in this time, podcasting soared in popularity, reached mainstream audiences.

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All podcasts had to do was publish their content to an RSS feed, usually through a hosting

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provider like RSS.com, and it'll be listed in Apple's index and can be fetched by podcast

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apps. And the RSS feed is just an XML file. It contains tags that provide the podcast

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apps with information for that feed and properties, so it can be organized when new episodes are

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updated and published.

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And so I think, yeah, the simplicity of the RSS protocol really helps that widespread

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adoption. And RSS works just as well today as it did back then, but the independent open

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kind of podcasting ecosystem is increasingly under attack. And problems began to arise

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when Apple started exerting control over which podcasts they deemed to be suitable and which

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were not. And they had the power to censor, deplatform, and demonetize podcasts that they

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didn't agree with or didn't meet their content guidelines, not only on their platform, but

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on all the other podcast apps that relied on their index. So free speech and podcasting

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was suddenly under threat.

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And in recent years, we've seen major technology companies like Spotify, Google, Amazon, all

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enter the podcasting arena to compete with Apple. And needless to say, Apple weren't

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just going to let them use their kind of index of podcasts. Spotify certainly weren't going

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to rely on Apple for that. So they decided to launch their own. And as a result, podcasting

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is now made up of several closed proprietary systems, which are all in competition with

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each other. And that takes us on to the second problem podcasting faces, which is that the

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level of innovation in podcasting has really failed to keep up with its growing popularity.

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Now most podcast apps today have the same basic set of features that they did when the

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first mobile apps and podcasts launched over a decade ago. And why is that? You know, why

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are the features that are offered by YouTube, things like chapters, transcripts, comments,

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live chat, not possible in podcast apps? Well, YouTube doesn't rely on the RSS protocol.

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It's really doing its own thing. So what is the problem with the RSS protocol as things

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stand? Well, until now, there's not really been a common language for writing and reading

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RSS tags in podcasts. So if a podcast has chapters, that feature needs to be supported

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by the podcast hosting provider in a way that's also recognized by the podcast listening apps

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like Spotify. And with large technology companies like Spotify investing heavily in building

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walls around their ecosystem, there's really no incentive to cooperate on common standards.

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And the result is a highly fragmented podcasting ecosystem, which is really lacking in innovation.

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You've got thousands of competing hosting providers and podcast apps that are actually

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unable to communicate with each other and share information, which is really where podcasting

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2.0 comes in. So what is podcasting 2.0? It's essentially an initiative spearheaded by Adam

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Curry and Dave Jones. And his mission is to preserve, protect and extend the open independent

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podcasting ecosystem. And it does this primarily through two flagship projects. Firstly, the

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podcast index. Now, this is an open censorship resistant directory of podcasts launched to

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preserve podcasting as a platform of free speech. Anyone can add a podcast to the index

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by submitting an RSS feed and choose podcast index to populate its app with their content.

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And that's why on podcasting 2.0 apps like Fountain, we use this index. So we actually

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have a broader range of podcasts than you might find on say Apple. And the second thing

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is the podcasting 2.0 namespace. And a namespace is basically just used to define and organize

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a set of objects contained in a program. In this case, podcasting 2.0, it's a framework

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that the independent podcast community needs to deliver new functionality across the ecosystem.

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It's essentially the common language that we've been missing. So the namespace is comprised

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of a set of simple tags that can be added to your RSS feed. Anyone in the podcasting

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2.0 community can propose a tag and it could be adopted into the namespace. So let's just

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have a look at some of these tags in action in Fountain. We've got podcast person so you

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can now label hosts and guests so they can easily be searched for in podcast apps. You've

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probably had this experience before when you're searching for every single podcast episode

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that a certain person has featured in and it's really hard to find. We've also got the

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chapters tags so you can now navigate podcast chapters with custom artwork and links. And

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there are many other different tags like transcript, live, music, video, all of which Fountain

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is going to be adopting soon. But the one tag that's really come to define podcasts

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in 2.0 and Fountain is value for value. So what exactly is value for value? Now this

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I think can be over complicated but there's a really simple way of explaining it and fundamentally

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it allows listeners to support any podcast directly from their app as they're listening

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by sending payments over the Bitcoin Lightning network and they can do so pretty much instantaneously

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and with no fees. But value for value is not a new thing. It's actually been around for

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centuries and it's not exclusive to podcasting either. And this excerpt from an article by

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Der Gigi, the freedom of value, sums it up pretty nicely. So he says, the idea is simple

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but it sounds radical. You provide your content for free for everyone without access restrictions.

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If people enjoy it, if people get value out of it, you make it easy for people to give

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value back. It might sound outrageous in this day and age but this model has worked for

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over a thousand years. It is the model of street performers, the model of buskers, the

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model of voluntary giving. The value for value model flips the traditional payment model

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on its head. Traditionally, enjoyment follows payment. In the value for value approach,

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payment follows enjoyment voluntarily. Now you're free to listen to the street musician

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and walk on but if you want the music to continue, you throw a couple of coins into the app.

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So that explains it pretty well but value for value is not just something for street

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performers and it's not charity. It's actually been adopted by some of the most successful

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creators in modern times. Some of you might remember Radiohead's album back in 2007 in

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Rainbows. They gave away the album for free on the internet and allowed their fans to

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pay whatever they want. And 12 weeks later, they launched the CD and digital album. And

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in those 12 weeks, they actually made more money from the value for value approach than

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they did from the entire sales in their previous album. So this just kind of really shows that

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value for value actually makes economic sense in mainstream media. Now bringing it back

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to podcasting, I'm sure many of you here will have heard of Adam Curry and No Agenda. So

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Adam along with John Dvorak, they were the original pioneers of value for value in podcasting.

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Their show has been 100% audience funded since 2005. No ads, no sponsors, just contributions

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from listeners. They call the contributions time, talent and treasure. So treasure is

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obviously money, but what is the time and talent? And this artwork here is a really

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great example of that. They actually have a website where fans can submit episode artwork

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for upcoming episodes and they choose the episode artwork from their fans. So in that

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sense, all of their listeners are kind of producers and active participants in the creation

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of the content, which is pretty cool. So how exactly does Fountain deliver value for value

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for listeners? So firstly, the listener tops up a wallet with small units of Bitcoin called

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Sats. So if you're not familiar, there are 100 million Sats in one Bitcoin. $10 today

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is worth about 35,000 Sats just as a frame of reference. And all listeners need to get

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started is a bank card. You can buy Sats in the Fountain app really easily. And once they

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funded their wallet, they can either stream Sats to the podcaster for every minute they

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listen or they can send a message with a payment, which we call a boost. And the value tag in

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the RSS feed essentially tells us how to distribute the money that listeners are sending. So these

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are called splits, the podcaster can set them up. So when I pay a podcast, the money gets

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divided to the host, the guest, the producer, anyone who is involved in the creation of

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that podcast. But actually, value for value can be much more than just payments. Like

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it doesn't just help creators get rewarded for their work. It's great for discovery too.

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So when you support a podcast in Fountain, it actually signals to your friends and other

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listeners that it's worth listening to. We display the boost messages as comments in

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the app so you can reply to them. You can hit the like button and actually send the

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person who sent the comments some Sats to thank them. And we also list the most supported

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podcasts on Fountain in charts. So it's a great way to see which content is actually

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worth listening to. And these are just a few examples of the type of features we're building

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in Fountain. So why does it work? Firstly, it's fully integrated into the listener experience.

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Unlike Patreon and Apple, there's that friction. You have to pay like a monthly subscription.

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It's a direct debit charged to your bank account, whether you listen to the podcast or not.

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And in Fountain, once you hear something you like, you can pay the podcaster straight away

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with no friction. Secondly, as we've demonstrated, it's really easy for listeners to get started.

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All they need is a bank card. They don't need to have Bitcoin already or have any Bitcoin

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experience. And thirdly, it's complementary to your existing monetization channels. So

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if you have ads or sponsors, or you already have a premium subscription offering, Value

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for Value works on top of that. Cool. So that's kind of the basics of Value for Value and

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Podcasting 2.0. Now we'll kind of get into the main content of the presentation, which

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is essentially a collection of different clips from podcasters who are using Fountain and

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have integrated Value for Value into their show to learn some like tried and tested techniques

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that have allowed them to like go from having zero supporters to having, you know, several

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hundred and thousands of supporters. So starting with this, asking your listeners to support

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the show. Now it seems quite obvious, but you'd be surprised how many podcasters have

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enabled Value for Value for their show, but haven't told their listeners. And it's important

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to find a way to do this that really makes sense for you. And it's important to do it

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very regularly. So you constantly remind your listeners and create this idea that this is

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what you're supposed to do when you listen and get value from the show. And this clip

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from Adam Curry is a really great way of kind of explaining the right way to get your pitch

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right.

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I think part of the part for someone who comes from a mainstream. I'm just going to play

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that again. I think part of the part for someone who comes from a mainstream, here's a bunch

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of money, you just do the show, we own you perspective. Asking someone to send you money

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is like a defeat. It's like, oh my God. And you know, in the beginning, when we were pioneering

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this, before Patreon, all this stuff, people would make jokes about us say, oh, you're

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begging for money again. Oh, there they go. Begging for money beggars. It was really hard.

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So to get that pitch right. It's not just send me money. That doesn't work. You've got

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to ask you have to ask that you can you can ask the right question anytime at the right

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time. But you have to ask it in the right way. And it's really that John always has

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good examples. You know, there's this butcher shop up in Fort Angeles, Washington. And he

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really loved the butcher shop and but he didn't go very often. He's like, I'll go next time.

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I'll go next time. He never went and then one day was gone. And, you know, he said that

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really taught him that he regretted that. And when you say tell this story, people have

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lots of people have stories just like this. So if there's something you really like, you

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support it. You should do that in everything in your life. You know, so I think value for

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value, it can be for music, it can be for books, it can be for anything. And you kind

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of you get the beauty of the old system, which is, you want to have as many people see, read,

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hear your art as possible. Every artist wants that now. You know, it's all with it's all

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within your own grasp. You determine how you how you send the message across. And it's

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completely open, you can do anything you want. It's just you have to get over that hump,

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and you have to say, Hey, help me out.

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Cool. So that was Adam Curry, talking about, you know, finding the right way to to ask

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your listeners is definitely uncomfortable. At first, it doesn't feel like a natural thing

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to do to ask people for money. But I think what he's getting at is if you really put

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the importance on why you're supporting, like why you would do that, like, that really kind

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of makes sense in the listener's mind, you know, they get the idea that, okay, if I don't

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support, you know, the show might not continue. And seeing as I get such great enjoyment from

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listening to it, I want it to continue. So I'm going to support. And I would really suggest

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like, you know, practicing this pitch on your own, trying out a few different versions and

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each, you know, new episode that you publish, and just see which gets the best response

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from your listeners, you know, you'll probably notice it in the data you get back and the

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amount of money you're getting or the number of boosts you're getting, you'll get to a

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point where it will suddenly click, and it will really start to resonate with your audience.

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But you have to do it consistently. And you have to be patient with it. Because just like

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anything to you know, you're doing on YouTube, or whatever channel you're on, these things

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take time to like, really kind of get traction and settle in with listeners. But whatever

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you do, don't ask for tips. This clip from James Cridland explains why.

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It's great to see and I think Kevin Rook. It's great to see and I think Kevin Rook would

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see even more if he stopped calling them tips. If you ask for a tip, you get 20% of what

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you should be getting. If you ask for value, if you ask for somebody to pay you the value

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that they think that something is worth, then you will get more money. And I think one of

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the things that you know, and I've heard Adam Curry saying this a long time, I think one

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of the things that we need to be a little bit cleverer about is to get the right wording,

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to get the right talk up around this so that it isn't seen as a way of tipping people.

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It's a way of paying for the podcasts that you really enjoy, which is a different conversation.

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Yeah, so I think this is really good advice. Whenever I hear people asking for tips, I'm

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like, you know, like, it sounds like you're busking, or it sounds like, you know, it's

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going to be a small amount of change you're giving on top of a coffee you bought in a

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shop. Asking for people to send value or return the value that they got from the show, like,

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makes such a massive difference. So that's definitely worth taking into account. I think

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the other thing here is like, it helps to like really be specific about how people actually

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do this new action. You know, people won't be familiar with phrases like streaming and

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boosts, or like sats, you know, what are sats, like, maybe you need to explain that as well.

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And this clip from Jordan Harbinger really kind of makes it simple and easy to get on

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board with.

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By the way, if you're a regular listener of the show, and you get some value from me or

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the guests we have on the show, there's a really easy way to show your support. Download

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the Fountain app on iOS or Android, follow the Jordan Harbinger show and start listening

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over there. You can share your thoughts on this episode with me by sending a boost, which

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is like a little payment with a message and see what other listeners have to say. Getting

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started is easy. You can top up your Fountain wallet with a bank card and you can also earn

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money just by listening to the show on Fountain as well. It's a no brainer. I donate this

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money to charity, by the way. Visit fountain.fm to learn more.

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Yeah, so I think that like what Jordan does here particularly well is he actually explains

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like how to get started and get some Sats in your Fountain wallet and makes it clear

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that all you need is a bank card. He actually doesn't mention the word Bitcoin or Sats once,

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which I think if you have an audience which is like not necessarily native or familiar

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with Bitcoin, that's a great way to get them in.

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The other thing to mention too is that like, you know, given that you're asking your listeners

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to send you money, you need to try and find a way of making that exciting for them. You

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know, they're parting with their cash. You know, that's cash they could keep themselves.

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So what is it about Fountain and Value for Value and your show that's really going to

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get them interested to do so?

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Value for Value means you...

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Not sure what's happening with Eclipse here. Let's try again.

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Value for Value means you determine how much value you're getting out of a podcast and

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you stream it back using a Podcasting 2.0 app from newpodcastapps.com. All these apps

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are free by the way. Check out the cool awesome features like images, chapters, and your ability

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to stream Satoshi's aka micro payments to Podcasting 2.0 shows versus something like

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Patreon or a monthly subscription service. Like what if you don't listen to the show?

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You're still going to get charged the $5 for example, but you get to decide as you listen

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to the show how much you want to give back to that podcaster. It's a new way to support

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creators. Musicians will be releasing albums kind of like podcasts where as you listen,

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you can stream different amounts to the singer, to the bassist, to the guitarist, or to the

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whole band. Live streams on YouTube and Twitch and all that stuff. They're totally going

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to go this way. This is exciting times.

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So I think the thing that Kyle does really well here is he kind of gives a glimpse of

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the future of what's coming in Podcasting 2.0 and Value for Value in a way that his

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listeners are going to be able to relate to, which I think is really important. And then

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just the final one in this section is a clip from Odell from the host of Citadel Dispatch.

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And he is very good at like really showing how grateful he is from his listeners from

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the contributions that he's getting and kind of really explains like how much it means

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to him personally, which I think makes a massive difference.

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Before I get started, just another huge shout out to all the freaks who continue to support

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the show with Bitcoin. Dispatch is audience funded without ads or sponsors. It would not

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be possible without all of your generous donations. So thank you for supporting the show. It truly

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means a lot. You can support the show via Podcasting 2.0 apps like Fountain Podcast.

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There's a lot of apps that support it. They work like a regular podcasting app. You search

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Citadel Dispatch, you click that subscribe button. You choose how much Bitcoin per minute

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you think the show is worth. And those stats are streamed directly to my node. It is incredibly

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cool seeing stats streamed directly to my node. With Podcasting 2.0, you can also do something

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called a Boostergram. You can think of that as a global message board where you're able

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to put a comment and then attach a certain amount of stats to it, a certain amount of

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Bitcoin to it. I read the top four Boostergrams from the previous show every episode.

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Yeah, so just the end of that clip sets us up nicely for the next tip, which is to actually

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read and respond to the messages from your supporters. The podcasters who do this tend

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to see much better engagement and earn more money than the ones who don't. And it's a

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really great way to give your fans their 15 seconds of fame and really make them feel

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part of the community. It also makes or creates a sense of FOMO for all the other listeners

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and makes them more likely to send a boost in the future. It's also a great source of

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content and discussion. People will often read out boost from the previous episode and

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you can revisit some of the conversation or some of the discussion from that episode.

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And again, it's a great way to tease or highlight the previous episode that other listeners

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might have missed. They go back and watch it again later.

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So this piece of advice here from Chris, I think is having a consistent and dedicated

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format. This is something that Chris does really well with Linux and Plugged and his

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other shows on Value for Value. Most podcasters tend to read out the boosts regularly at the

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start or the end of the episode. They'll read out the top three or five boosts by value.

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They will acknowledge the person who sent it and also tell them the amount. In this

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example, you'll also see Chris is also using kind of music and jingles to, I guess, mark

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this section or the area of the podcast and really make it more fun. So I'll play this

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one.

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Well, we got some fantastic support from the audience this week to celebrate episode 500

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and to say we blew the charts up is a understatement. We are number one by a mile on the Fountain

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FM charts. Extremely humbling. Thank you, everyone. So let's get into it.

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And now it is time for the boost.

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Eric D. Boost in with 1,000,009,529 sacks.

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He writes, congratulations on the big milestone. I started listening when Self-Hosted began

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back in 2019. And then I found the rest of Jupiter broadcasting from there. Unplugged

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has inspired me to try so many things in the world of Linux. And I've learned a lot along

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the way. Thank you for fantastic content. Week after week. Here's something for Jupiter

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broadcasting Stake Fund and the next 500 episodes.

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Yeah, so that's a really nice example. I think, you know, particularly large amounts given

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they were celebrating 500 episodes of the show. But you can see that it really kind

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of like brings out the strong emotional connections that listeners have to your show. And by surfacing

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those you kind of really, I guess by osmosis, make the rest of your audience feel that way.

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And it's rare that, you know, podcast listener can have that direct interaction or acknowledgement

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from the podcast host, which is, it tends to be, you know, the podcast host of people

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that you really respect and look up to and have followed for many years. So having that

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direct recognition from them, and even like kind of contact or interaction with them,

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really makes a massive, massive difference. This is an example from podcasting 2.0, which

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is the weekly show that Adam and Dave run, which essentially recaps all the things happening

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in podcasting 2.0 new developments. People who donate to podcasting 2.0 are donating

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with a really clear intention is to help kind of extend what the initiative is achieving

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to invest in their costs, such as hosting, all the things that they're doing. And we

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tend to see like really large amounts being sent to podcasting 2.0 for that reason. What

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they've done quite cleverly is they've gamified this. So they have like a leaderboard, which

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they keep up to date over time. And whenever someone sends a boost that takes them to the

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top of the charts, they will celebrate that moment. And they'll give them like some exclusive

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prizes or some merch. So here's an example of that happening.

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502,377 stats from Dreb Scott. Holy crap. He gets a good baller. Okay, he needs his own

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jingle now. Okay, we have to have a leaderboard now. This is getting ridiculous. Dreb. Okay,

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502,377. His messages topping Aerostatica's record boost by one sat. Happy New Year. Go

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podcasting.

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Thank you, Dreb. You might as well start a hosting company with this level of support,

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Dreb.

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Or join one.

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Or join one. Yeah, there you go. Well, he's got the chapter service. He must be doing

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eight or nine different podcasts. He's doing chapters for him. And he's just taking a split

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from the value from the value block. And apparently sending it right back to us.

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I'm going to begin to refer to him as high roller Dreb Scott or independently wealthy

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Dreb Scott.

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Nice, the independently wealthy Dreb Scott. The Bruce Wayne of podcast. Still kind of

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works for me.

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That's, that's a better one. Let's do Bruce Wayne of podcast.

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So I think yeah, just to summarize, definitely consider reading out and responding to, you

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know, messages from your supporters, it really makes a massive difference. Like I mentioned

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as well, you can also reply to the boost messages in the fountain app. This is a really great

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way to show your listeners that you're active and you're contactable, and just allows them

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to reach out and make that connection with you.

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So the third point, which kind of Adam touched upon in that clip there was splits and splits

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are basically a way to share income from your podcast with other people. So you could, for

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example, add your top supporter from your last episode to the splits for your latest

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episode. And you can actually set the default splits for your show, which is really useful

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for adding your co-hosts, your producer, the person who created the artwork for your show,

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anyone who's a regular contributor to your show, or you can set the splits for each episode.

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So let's just take a quick look at how splits work in fountain. You will simply go to your

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show or your episode page, you'll hit the splits button. And there's two ways of adding

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a split. The easiest way is just to add another fountain user. So the example I'm going to

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show you in a minute is about how to add a guest to your episode splits. Now, all you

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would do in that case is once you have recorded with the guest, you would ask them to create

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a fountain account. And then when the episode gets published live, all you would do is just

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edit the splits for that episode, look for their user account and add them. And it's

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that easy. So you can see a couple of examples here up on this page. You can see the splits

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here for what Bitcoin did. He's listed out a few of the members of his team. He's also

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got a 20% split that goes to a charity for open source projects. And on the far right,

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you can see Kevin Rook splits. You can see that he's actually added one of his guests

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to get 49% of the revenue for that episode. So yeah, just I mentioned Kevin already then.

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What he did was added guests as a split. And this is a really great way to incentivize

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your audience to support the show. And it also incentivizes your guests to tell their

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followers to listen to the episode and support it on Fountain. So here's an example of that

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in action.

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Now, this is the part of the show where I usually ask you to send in stats and comments

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and questions over the Lightning Network. But today we've unlocked a brand new use case

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for Lightning payments on this show. Yesterday, I asked Lynn to send me her Fountain username.

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And today, Fountain released an update that allows me to put any username into the show

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splits so that that user gets a portion of the stats that are sent in. So right now, you

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should be able to see in the show splits, if you're using any podcasting 2.0 app, any

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stats you send in, any comments and questions as well will be split 50-50 between Lynn and

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I. So we'll both be able to see the comments and questions and half the stats will go to

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me, half the stats will go to Lynn. This is also Lynn's first experience with podcasting

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2.0. So if you enjoy this show, if you learn something new, send in a comment, send in

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a question, send in some stats and let Lynn know that you appreciate the episode.

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Cool. And the great thing about adding a guest as a split is that once you've added them

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in Fountain, they will start to see once the episode goes live, all the engagement and

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all the income from the episode goes straight into their Fountain wallet. So it's a really

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seamless experience for your guests, really easy to get started. And like I said, makes

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a massive difference because as a listener, if you know that the money is going to go

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to the person you're listening to, which is more often than not the guest, it just really

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gives them another reason to support the show.

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I already mentioned contributing to good causes. A lot of podcasters are really happy to share

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their income with causes that are close to their heart. And I think that having a worthy

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cause is also a great incentive for listeners to support because they know exactly what

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they're contributing to and where the money's going. So here's a clip from Odell speaking

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about that.

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So if you support dispatch.

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Really annoying how I have to keep playing this twice.

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So if you support dispatch via podcasting 2.0 through streaming Sats, 5% automatically

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goes directly to open Sats node. And I forgot to mention it to you, Marty, before we came

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on air, but like how cool would it be? Like I would love if RHR does it too, but like

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how cool would it be if we had like thousands of podcasts, like millions of podcast listeners,

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and there's constantly every minute streaming Sats to open source contributors in addition

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to the content creators? It seems really fucking powerful.

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Cool. So onto the next point, which is driving discovery of your podcast with clips. You

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know, clips are a really great way to get your podcast discovered and attract new listeners.

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We'll just talk a bit briefly here about how clips work in Fountain. As a listener, all

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you do is hit the clip button, you get presented with a transcript for that episode. You can

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just select the speech blocks and publish your clip and your clip will be published

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in Fountain. It will be seen there. It will be seen on the episode page. It will be seen

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in the activity feed for other users who follow you and other listeners and also the podcast

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hosts will be able to like your clip and send you some Sats for it and also send a reply.

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And you can also share your clips on Twitter, TikTok, WhatsApp, whatever channels you're

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using as well. So clips are a really great way to drive discovery. And if you're not

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going to create clips yourself, you should definitely ask your listeners to. And here's

404
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:36,560
just a little clip from my co-founder Oscar featuring on Anthony Pompliano's podcast. He

405
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,520
talks a little bit more about explaining the benefit of clips to, you know, for your listeners

406
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,200
and for you. Exactly. And think about the biggest podcaster

407
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:54,360
in the world, Joe Rogan. How did he grow? He grew through his clips on YouTube. And

408
00:35:54,360 --> 00:36:00,520
what you can actually do in Fountain is you can create clips from episodes and then podcasters

409
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:06,720
and other Fountain users can boost the clip. So you can actually, one, earn from creating

410
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:11,960
clips or the podcaster can incentivize their audience to create clips, which is ultimately

411
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:17,760
going to lead to growth. And what I think is so fascinating about this is take an hour

412
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:23,600
and a half episode of a podcast. The moment that you think as the podcaster is the best

413
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,880
moment to create as a clip might not be the same moment as me. It might not be the same

414
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,840
moment as the third person that listens. And so by taking that power of clipping, giving

415
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,840
it to the listener, incentivizing it financially, I think we're going to see massive growth

416
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:43,120
for podcasters that can jump on this and actually do it effectively.

417
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,320
Yeah. And that's exactly what we've seen. That clip was from just before we launched

418
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,640
clips. We had no idea or, you know, the paid clips, we had no idea how well they were going

419
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,440
to perform, but we are seeing, you know, if you're creating clips for your podcast or

420
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,760
asking your listeners to, those clips just get distributed far and wide throughout the

421
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,760
app and end up, you know, appearing in front of another listener who hasn't heard the show

422
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:12,120
before. And they're going to give it a go because, you know, it's only one or two minutes

423
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,320
of their time versus, you know, an hour long investment of their time to try out a show

424
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:22,360
for the first time. Another great suggestion from Jack Spearco, who hosts the survival

425
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:28,040
podcast is to like clip from your listeners and he'll explain why in this clip.

426
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:33,600
You're taking the Fountain clips model into like a YouTube universe right there, right?

427
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,040
So right now, I know you just got on Fountain, but like, so people will listen to the show

428
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,280
and they're like, okay, that was awesome. And they'll hit transcribe and it will take

429
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,600
the entire podcast and turn it into text in text blocks. You then go in there and you

430
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,200
just click the blocks you want. You trim out what you don't want and you click, you add

431
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,840
the title and a hashtag, you get published. So people are doing that with my show right

432
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,800
now. What will happen is I'll see one come up in popular clips. Well, that person just

433
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,800
took their time, made a clip of my show for their own use. That's probably why they did

434
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,840
it because they wanted that piece. But I'm like, okay, I'm on popular clips now. So when

435
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,120
you like somebody's clip on Fountain, the creator doesn't get the money. The person

436
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,280
who made the clip does and it falls to 10 sats alike, but you can go in your settings

437
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:21,680
and change it. So I went and changed mine to 25 and whenever I see one of my clips get

438
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,320
in popular clips that somebody else made, I hit it four times and I give them a hundred

439
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:33,440
sats. And it takes me two seconds to do that. And so one, I'm rewarding the action, but

440
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:39,680
two, now I'm forming a higher level relationship with that listener who took their time to

441
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,880
help themselves, but help me at the same time.

442
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:48,840
Oh yeah. So some really great insights from Jack there on how to beat the Fountain algorithm

443
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:54,920
and like clips. So they get seen by more people in their feed and throughout the other places

444
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:02,200
in the app. The last area of the steps that we're going to give you here is about Fountain

445
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:07,600
promotions. So you might not be familiar with Fountain promotions. Essentially on the homepage

446
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,400
of the Fountain app, you can promote your show or an episode of your podcast and actually

447
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:18,000
stream money to listeners to incentivize them to try it out for the first time. Now this

448
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,560
is a really cost-effective growth hack for getting new supporters for your podcast. You

449
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,720
can decide how much you want to pay every listener. And you can also get the metrics

450
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:33,520
from your promotion in the app and see how it's performing. A few screenshots here just

451
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,320
to show it in action. Once you've claimed your show on Fountain, you can just go to

452
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:42,240
your show page. You'll see an area for promotions. You can check, you can choose whether you

453
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,520
want to promote the episode or the show. Like I mentioned, you can just kind of put in your

454
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,320
promotion budget, like how much you want to spend overall and also the max earnings for

455
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,760
anyone who's going to listen to that full episode. And then you can purchase your promotion

456
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:01,160
using Apple Pay, using a bank card. And within 24 hours, your podcast will start appearing

457
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:06,680
on the homepage in the app. And we've seen podcasters get some really great results through

458
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:12,080
this. There's not really anything else like this out there. Like if you've ever considered

459
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:19,360
investing in paid media to promote your podcast, you know, you can't exactly take listeners

460
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,560
directly to your audio. You know, you have to send them to your website or to a page

461
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:31,480
on Spotify or whatever it might be, or just have a more generic ad about your podcast.

462
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,340
And it just doesn't work so well. The other alternative, if you're trying to promote your

463
00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:41,680
show is to invest in podcast ads on another podcast and cross promote. But again, like

464
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:47,400
people are so used to skipping past the ads. And it kind of feels like a bit of an invasion

465
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,460
of like, okay, I'm listening to this podcast. And now they're trying to tell me about this

466
00:40:50,460 --> 00:40:56,840
other one. I just want to listen to this podcast that I started playing, right? So incentivizing

467
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:01,440
users having a financial incentive and making it opt in so they can choose to listen to

468
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:08,780
this podcast if they want to is a great model. And I'll just share a few metrics here from

469
00:41:08,780 --> 00:41:14,200
a podcast that users fountain called high hash rate. It's a Bitcoin podcast. They've

470
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:20,800
done four campaigns since the end of December, they spent the total of $200. And in that

471
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:28,840
period, they increased their downloads by 1300%. They achieved over 20,000 impressions

472
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:35,000
overall and almost 5000 listens. And if you break that down by, you know, the cost per

473
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:42,960
CPM for impressions, just under $10, the CPM for listens, so 1000 listens is $44. That's

474
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,680
pretty good value. And actually, they could have got it cheaper. They had their, you know,

475
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,920
their maximum payout for listeners originally set at 500 sets. And they realize actually,

476
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:57,000
we can bring it down to 300 sets or 200 sets and people are still going to listen to it.

477
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,880
So we see that if you're a podcaster, and you say, okay, I'm going to promote my podcast,

478
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,760
and it's going to be 100 sets maximum, you know, that equates to 1000 listeners for,

479
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:11,000
you know, roughly $20, which is a really great investment of your money if you're looking

480
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:16,120
to get started with, you know, value for value and get more supporters.

481
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,280
And just the final point, you know, some of the features and benefits I've talked about

482
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,840
a value for value are things that are only going to be possible if you claim your show

483
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:32,280
on the fountain app. Now, if you have activated value for value for your show via rss.com,

484
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:37,460
you will actually have a Albie wallet, which means that whenever someone sends money to

485
00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:42,120
your podcast, it will go to your Albie wallet versus your fountain wallet. And actually

486
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:47,560
claiming your podcast on fountain has some benefits. Firstly, you can actually read and

487
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:53,520
respond to boost sent from all podcasting 2.0 apps. The splits we discussed earlier

488
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,280
as well, you can actually manage those really easily in the fountain app. Otherwise, you're

489
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,400
going to have to go to a separate website and do it that way, which is a bit more funky.

490
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,160
You also get support to stats for your show in the fountain app. And we're building new

491
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,400
tools for this all the time to give you more insights on who your supporters are, you know,

492
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,560
how much of your content they're listening to, which episodes have gotten the most support.

493
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:22,040
And then lastly, you're also able to promote your show and fountain. So anyone who is excited

494
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,920
by some of the stuff that I've shared today, I would definitely recommend doing that. It's

495
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,360
really, really easy. What you'll need to do is actually log into your podcast, the wallet.com

496
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,000
and delete your current value block. And then all you have to do is just follow the claim

497
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,360
process, which is really straightforward. You find your show in the app, you hit the

498
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,720
claim button, you put in the email address and your RSS feed will send you an email to

499
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:48,400
that email to verify that you're the owner of that feed. And then suddenly, you'll, you

500
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,360
know, your podcast will be claimed on fountain and you'll be able to, you know, manage and

501
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,240
control all your value for value activity within the fountain app, you'll be able to

502
00:43:56,240 --> 00:44:00,480
receive your boost into fountain, respond to them in fountain. And it kind of just puts

503
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:08,160
everything in one place. Cool. So that brings me to the end of section two. We've got about

504
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,760
15 minutes now where we're just going to have a quick chat with our special guest, Chris

505
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:21,120
Fisher. So I'm going to stop sharing my screen now and invite him up to say hello.

506
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,440
Well hello. Thanks for having me.

507
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:31,160
Thank you for joining us. It would be great if you could introduce yourself to everyone

508
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,040
here who doesn't know you already.

509
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:38,920
Sure. Yeah. So I'm Chris from Jupiter broadcasting. We really focus in on Linux and open source

510
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:44,920
podcasts and software development. We're going on about 16 years now and we've been experimenting

511
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:51,400
with different value for value models for several years now and really just sort of

512
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:57,640
perfectly as we were experimenting discovered boosts and have taken to it. It's been just

513
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:02,280
over a year since we've been accepting boosts from our audience and I absolutely love it.

514
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,640
I'm a huge fan of it out of all the years that I've been doing this. I don't think I've

515
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:11,360
ever felt more connected to the audience and I don't think I've ever had what feels like

516
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,280
a more tangible relationship with them.

517
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:19,800
Awesome. And when was the first time that you first learned about podcasting 2.0 and

518
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,840
value for value and what were your like initial impressions?

519
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:30,640
Yeah, that's a good question. Oh gosh. I remember over the years hearing Adam Curry and John

520
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:36,360
C. Dvorak kind of develop the idea around value for value. I think one of the things

521
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:41,160
that you touched on is one of the things that I really took to as well as making sure you

522
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,880
don't call it tips. And I remember hearing them talk about that and kind of thinking

523
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:52,800
about it in terms of host incentives. And that's really when it clicked for me because

524
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:59,200
so for we've been going for about 16 years and 13 of those maybe 14 of those years were

525
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:06,920
sponsor funded. And so I did add sales to the ad relationship to the ad reads and all

526
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:12,440
of that. And you know you end up spending a lot of time thinking about the sponsor and

527
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:17,080
what the sponsor wants and you don't spend as much time thinking about what the listener

528
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:21,840
wants. And that I think was the big change when I started really kind of appreciating

529
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:27,600
what value for value meant. And I meant that to me at least it meant that it turns the

530
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,360
listener into my biggest customer. So if you look at it from a business standpoint, because

531
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,440
I'm a small business, my listener is now the most important customer I have and I want

532
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,600
to do whatever I can do to make the listener happy because they're the ones supporting

533
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:45,760
us. They're the largest source of income for us. When I started thinking about it that

534
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:50,120
way and I started thinking how that could fundamentally change content creation on YouTube,

535
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,840
it could change a lot of the way podcasts are created, I realized it was a really big

536
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,640
deal and I started communicating it with my audience a few years ago. And not only have

537
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,640
we seen tremendous adoption of the booths but our website and a bunch of other things

538
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:09,560
but a great example is our website jupiterbroadcasting.com entirely created by our community. I did

539
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,360
not write a single line of code. I did not stand up a single server for that. It's all

540
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:18,040
running on my infrastructure. I have all access to all the code. It's all open source. But

541
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,960
our audience contributed jupiterbroadcasting.com as another source of value they could give

542
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:29,400
back beyond just monetary. They give back time and talent as well. And that has been

543
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,880
I think a huge accelerator for us because we're a small team and we're really focused

544
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,120
on the shows and making the shows is really all I got time for. And so I don't have time

545
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:45,000
to learn Hugo and go build all that out but the audience, there were already experts in

546
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,080
that. There were people out there who already knew how to do it. And so they were able to

547
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:53,120
contribute that as well. And so that has just been a game changer for us. Just kind of still

548
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,720
even really incorporating the way value for value will change the way we do business.

549
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:05,080
And I think it means you can do more with less. I don't have to have a full time web

550
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:09,560
dev. I don't have to have or even a contractor necessarily. Maybe one day. But as a small

551
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:14,680
business that means I save a little bit of money and I stay focused on the product.

552
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:21,240
And we've obviously seen your revenue for the shows that you are a part of grow significantly

553
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:26,320
over the last 12 months or so. But I assume you have also revenue coming from other places.

554
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,360
So it'd be good to understand from you like what your different revenue sources are and

555
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,680
how they compare to Fountain. I would say as well that like anyone who's coming to value

556
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,800
for value thinking it's going to be like a direct substitute for the money they're getting

557
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:43,240
from ads or sponsors or anywhere else is probably going to be disappointed at first. Chris will

558
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:47,560
attest to this. It takes time for these things to build up. But it'd be great to hear about

559
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,480
what those other revenue sources are and how they work for you.

560
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:56,180
Okay. Yeah. And just to your latter point there, I participate in some podcasts that

561
00:48:56,180 --> 00:49:03,000
aren't on my network and there are weeks that those podcasts make more revenue with value

562
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:09,160
for value than my podcasts that maybe have 10x the listener downloads. So it's remarkable

563
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:14,600
when the audience is supporting. It means a lot smaller content creator can compete

564
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,780
with larger content creators. So I think that is an interesting element. But you're right.

565
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:23,320
And you touched on this in your presentation as well. It is complementary to existing business

566
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,480
models. So we have a business that's been around for 16 years. So we have sponsor relationships.

567
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,980
We also have a Fiat membership program. And those don't necessarily get replaced by the

568
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:40,120
booths. And as somebody who's been just collecting audience feedback for years, there's something

569
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,160
special about the booths. And I like them a lot. But they don't necessarily replace other

570
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,120
avenues. We have a matrix chat room and we have email. So it's complementary in that

571
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,360
regard. But I hope over time it grows to be one of our primary resources of funding. Like

572
00:49:54,360 --> 00:50:01,160
right now, I think we probably it probably brings in about as much money as a sponsor

573
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:05,040
would for a couple of shows. So that's good, right? It means that's one less sponsor now

574
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:08,840
the business needs. And that's remarkable for one year. That's about where we're at

575
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,880
right now. So it's a third, maybe it's one leg of the stool, if you will. But it's a

576
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,960
very important leg that I can see growing and continue to grow. And as we kind of learn

577
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,120
how to do it better too, it'll also just grow with that. It's just kind of getting better

578
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,120
at the practice.

579
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:31,000
Yeah. And I imagine also that your audiences, they're fairly technical audiences just because

580
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,480
of the nature of your show and your content. Maybe some crossover between the technical

581
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:39,760
audience and the Bitcoin audience. But how did you kind of bridge that gap between, you

582
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,320
know, not talking about value for value and Bitcoin at all to suddenly introducing that

583
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,880
to your listeners for the first time?

584
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:53,480
I think it depends on your audience. It probably is smart to deemphasize the sats point. But,

585
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,760
you know, if you think about it, I think the way to really communicate it clearly to your

586
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,760
audience is to get your head around it. And at the end of the day, if I get a sat, I don't

587
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:09,560
care today if it's one, you know, it's a sat, it's a sat is a sat. Where we are accounting

588
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:16,040
for the boost in sats, not dollars. And so that what those become their own their own

589
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:20,600
unique value. Like we have a lot of memes in our community that have been self created.

590
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:27,920
A row of ducks is 2222 sats. Another really popular meme that's taken off right now, even

591
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:33,200
as we're doing this, I have boost coming in and the boost amount is individual zip codes.

592
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,760
People are boosting their zip code so other listeners know where other listeners are at.

593
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,640
And they just started they just started doing that on their own. So there is sort of like

594
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,200
this, if you just kind of nurture and get your head around it and figure out how to

595
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:50,000
talk about it in a way that is genuine with with what you really believe and your audience

596
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:54,360
connects with that. I think that's really the key to it. There is the whole issue of

597
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:59,640
oh, it's Bitcoin or it's kind of complicated. But, you know, Fountain has made that a lot

598
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:03,840
easier with integrating MoonPay. Albie's made that a lot easier with integrating MoonPay.

599
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:11,020
That process solves itself. Those are technological application layer problems. Totally solvable.

600
00:52:11,020 --> 00:52:15,580
It's a UI issue. It'll get worked out. I don't mean to diminish what you guys have to do.

601
00:52:15,580 --> 00:52:18,840
But that will get sorted out. In the meantime, I just have to get the audience thinking about

602
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,960
value in terms of sats and communicating it. And it's, you know, depending on your audience,

603
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,280
you can talk about it like it's fun podcasting money. You know, it doesn't have to be like

604
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:31,800
this alternative financial system that's going to overthrow like the fiat system of the central

605
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,300
banking overlords. It can just be like it's fun podcasting sats. It's internet coins.

606
00:52:37,300 --> 00:52:40,960
And if you like what we do send some internet coins and you want to keep it going. You got

607
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:45,280
to send some internet coins. Or you can have an audience that does truly understand the

608
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:51,320
power of a sound distributed money that's open source, which my community, a lot of

609
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:54,560
them do appreciate open source and you can lean on that. It's just sort of, you kind

610
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:58,760
of got to read the room and then just speak genuinely to that.

611
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:04,520
Yeah, there's been a lot of interesting discussion around, you know, because all the values in

612
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:09,520
value for value are denominated in Satoshi's and sats, you know, whether that means you

613
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:13,880
send more money or less money than you would do if you were sending dollars or pounds.

614
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,400
Like, do you think that if you were asking people to send dollars, they would actually

615
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:22,680
send less than sats because sats don't really feel like real money in a sense. And they

616
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,120
it's value changes on a daily basis.

617
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:30,600
Huh, you know, maybe I bet some might, I bet it would, I bet you could make an argument

618
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:39,480
for both cases, right? The way I explain it is the sats that you send today are going

619
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:46,320
to go to work forever. So if, and unlike you, fiat, us dollars, like if you sent me $25

620
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,520
to read a message, that $25 would probably be spent in seven days, right? It's gone.

621
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:57,240
Like the business will just consume that and spend that. If you send me $25 of sats, I'm

622
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:01,000
going to sit on that. And I'm going to use that to open up other channels to other nodes

623
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:06,160
to other listeners, to podcasting apps like fountain to wallets like Albie. So I put those

624
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:11,280
sats to work immediately when they come in. And so that that immediately means that a

625
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,520
they're not just sitting around, they're actually doing something. But B, let's just say we

626
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,800
all got lucky and Bitcoin did go to a million one day. Well, that means the boost that the

627
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:24,400
listener sent in four years ago is still working for them today. That boost is still paying

628
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,060
off and gaining value and doing more and more for the podcaster as time goes on. And I don't

629
00:54:29,060 --> 00:54:32,840
think that's a bad thing either. So I think there is actually something kind of powerful

630
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,680
about the idea that if you send me a million sets, you're essentially investing in the

631
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:41,880
business in a low key kind of non-traditional way. But it is because the way I'm managing

632
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,680
those sets, I'm putting them to work in lightning channel. So I'm getting immediate value from

633
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,680
them today. And then long term, the business will probably sit on them for a while and

634
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,480
then decide what to do with them five, six, seven, eight, 10 years down the road potentially.

635
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,040
And I could then at that point, sell that million sats for a lot more potentially than

636
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:02,120
when it came in at the time. And that listeners contribution just goes further. And I think

637
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:07,500
that's a really powerful thing. Unlike traditional fiat, where you can send me $25 today, I absolutely

638
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:11,480
appreciate it, I will spend it. But if I hold on to that for five years, it's going to be

639
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,440
worth a lot less. It's not going to do nearly as much for you as it would if I spent it

640
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:16,440
today.

641
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:22,640
It's a great point. I never really thought about it that way. Well, Chris, thank you

642
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:27,760
so much for joining us. I've certainly got a lot just out of this 10 minutes conversation

643
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:33,040
we've had. I'd love to keep talking, but I know we've got five minutes left. I want to

644
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:38,480
just give the opportunity for anyone who's dialed in to have any questions that they've

645
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:43,200
kind of thought up in the last hour or so. Anything for me or Chris that you'd like to

646
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:50,280
ask, or indeed Brian from the RSS.com team, any questions you have, the meeting is yours.

647
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:57,200
Hey, I'm Jennifer Navarrete, ePodcaster. And one of the things I think that this is

648
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,560
super helpful with is it's education, right? We've got to educate our audience, we have

649
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:06,520
to educate fellow podcasters, we have to educate the public at large. And it isn't a set it

650
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:10,720
and forget it. You don't just educate once and go, well, that's done. Everybody understands.

651
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:16,160
It's this ongoing thing that all of us as value for value podcast index podcasting 2.0

652
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,520
evangelists, because that's what we are, have to continue to do. So when I saw that you

653
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:25,920
were doing this, I was like, yes, we need more of this because each one of us is doing

654
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,720
this in our own way. I'm ePodcaster on web two and web three. And so I'm talking about

655
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:34,680
fountain. I'm talking about value for value. I'm talking about podcast index and podcasting

656
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:40,320
2.0 all the time in addition to web three. And I know everyone else is doing it too.

657
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:45,840
So the more that we do this, the better it is for us overall. But it's going to take

658
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,880
repetition and repetition and repetition. So I'm sharing this because I want folks who

659
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:55,700
are like, Oh, I shared that and nobody did anything. It's not a set it and forget it.

660
00:56:55,700 --> 00:57:00,420
It's a repetition and an ongoing education. So thank you, everyone who put this together

661
00:57:00,420 --> 00:57:04,000
and everyone who showed up and everyone who watched the replay because we're the early

662
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,560
adopters were the folks blazing that trail so that others can come behind us and have

663
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:12,960
an easier way. So stay the course, my friends stay the course.

664
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:20,760
Yeah, great point. Well said. Well said. Yeah, we are very early. And you know, I remember

665
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,560
back in the days when we just started fountain, and we had like a handful of podcasters using

666
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:31,080
it maybe like 50 or 100. There's now like almost 12,000 podcasters using value for value

667
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,480
and that number is growing every week, but it does take time. And it's definitely worth

668
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:43,200
investing your time into learning. And I think go and listen to some Adam Curry podcasts.

669
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,160
That's a great place to pick up some of his his knowledge as like the originator of this

670
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:51,760
whole thing. He really does explain it in a nice clear way.

671
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,680
I would like to add just really quickly to that Jennifer to I think I totally want to

672
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,760
underscore your point because it's a rising tide for all boats, especially with value

673
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:06,200
for value and podcasting 2.0. What I've noticed is listeners that we've onboarded are now

674
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:13,840
boosting other podcasting 2.0 compatible podcasts and value for value podcasts. And so as we

675
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,400
kind of educate people through our community, we're increasing the support that other podcasters

676
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:23,340
are getting and vice versa people that signed up to boost the podcasting 2.0 podcasts are

677
00:58:23,340 --> 00:58:27,900
now boosting my shows. And it creates a legitimate network effect. And even though we're all

678
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:32,760
doing our own thing, we're all we're all working towards our own incentives. We're actually

679
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:37,640
rising each other up at the same time. And, you know, I think that's a huge deal because

680
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:43,000
podcasting has never had that before. We have basically now the fabric for a really low

681
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:48,360
key community that's building here. And I've I've been doing this for 16 years. I've never

682
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:50,280
felt anything like that before.

683
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:57,680
Yeah, that's a great point. We've got time for probably a couple more questions. So if

684
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,680
anyone has one, please shoot.

685
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:06,360
I have a question.

686
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:12,400
So my name is Marcia. I am the marketing coordinator and next door lending. Our owner, CEO has

687
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:17,080
a podcast called the early bird podcast. And it's just about like, you know, waking up

688
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:22,720
early and the importance of it. So it's a newer podcast. And I was just wondering if

689
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:29,080
there is any advice that you often give to us as far as, you know, getting more subscribers

690
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:35,840
and getting that organic audience.

691
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,280
I mean, I yeah, Nick, I actually I'm going to say the part that you would probably like

692
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,480
to say, but you're probably too humble to say it is featuring and sponsoring your podcast

693
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:49,320
in fountain, I can attest, will generate the most downloads you've had since you started

694
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:57,360
your podcast, most likely. I've had the great fortune of doing Linux unplugged for 500 plus

695
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:04,320
episodes. And we just recently had some of our absolute best growth 30% over each month

696
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:10,320
for three months in a row through October, November and December, the show grew 30% each

697
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:15,480
month. And this is this is shows 500 episodes about Linux, right? Like it's those are incredible

698
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:18,720
numbers. And it's because we are at the top charts. And if you if you're not on the top

699
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:23,920
charts, another thing that is absolutely very useful and worth money and time is sponsoring

700
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:28,960
your show in fountain because you will drive listeners, absolutely. And they're listeners

701
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,880
that are already kind of pre charged with probably sats in a wallet, they kind of already

702
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,500
get the ecosystem, they already kind of get the value for value model. So not only will

703
01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:42,060
you pick up a good chunk of users, but they're like a really high value type of user as well.

704
01:00:42,060 --> 01:00:45,600
So you know, if you're just trying to get started and discovered, that's that I think

705
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,320
it's something to consider. And they're not paying me to say that. I'm not I'm not getting

706
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,520
paid to say that I really just believe that.

707
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:57,400
Yeah, it's good point. Mark here, if you go to fountain.fm forward slash charts, you can

708
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:03,440
see the top 50 most supported shows and episodes from the last seven days, we update them daily.

709
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,280
If your show is essentially trending and getting more support, it will be featured there definitely

710
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,480
has a massive difference. And you can also find out more about promotions on our website

711
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:16,320
as well. We're just at six o'clock now, I think we've got probably time for one more

712
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:22,040
question. I'll also kind of leave my email address and details at the end of this. You

713
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:26,560
can also just reach out to us directly on Twitter at fountain underscore app, or to

714
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:31,560
me directly at Nick Molster. One more question, who's it going to be?

715
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:36,400
I actually have a lot of good question, like back to piggyback what she was saying about

716
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:42,840
viewership. How do I continue like, now that I'm growing my YouTube, how do I continue

717
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:50,680
to get followers to listen to the podcast as well, but also gaining revenue from each

718
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:58,520
streamer from brain bring traffic to both sites? How do I do that?

719
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:04,120
That's a tricky question. So the way I think about it is I think about each podcast as

720
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:09,160
a product. And so for it to be a competitive product in a highly competitive market, because

721
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,640
there's a lot of podcasts, I think about what are the show notes look like? What does the

722
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:18,200
album art look like? What's the audio quality sound like? How fast are the downloads? What's

723
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:24,880
the presentation like on the website? Because each at each individual show I do is a product

724
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:31,240
that needs to stand on its own merits in a very packed marketplace. And so I try to check

725
01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:36,320
all those boxes, because there's going to be probably other people doing what I'm doing.

726
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:40,200
So I want to do the best version of that. I want to make it sound the best. I want to

727
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,680
have the most engaging conversation. I want to do the most in depth research. I want to

728
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,920
go more technical than anybody else goes. And then I want to have the best show notes.

729
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,600
I want to have links to everything I talk about. I want to have good album art. I want

730
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:53,760
to have my guests in there. This is part of why I want to do podcasting 2.0 is because

731
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:58,840
podcasting 2.0 makes my podcast more competitive, because I'll have transcripts, I'll have chapters,

732
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,240
I'll have features that the other podcasts don't have. And when I'm trying to stand

733
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,760
up from the pack, I want to have these kind of value ads that the other guys just frankly

734
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,760
haven't gotten around to yet. And that I'm willing to spend the time on and make my podcast

735
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:16,280
a little bit better. And so I think it's kind of a long way of saying, make the most competitive

736
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,240
products you can, the audience will come. But I think you then also have to kind of

737
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:24,780
be savvy about engaging the right guests. So that way they'll draw some attention and

738
01:03:24,780 --> 01:03:30,320
leveraging resources like fountain advertising. And of course, social media to a degree. But

739
01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:35,280
I would, my years of experience could depend on your community, but my years of experience

740
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,920
would tell me social media matters, but they're all those other things I just talked about

741
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:46,240
matter 10x more than anything you're going to do on Twitter or any other social platform.

742
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:57,920
Cool. All right, guys. We've just gone past the hour. I think it's probably a good time

743
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:04,360
to wrap it up. We will email everyone after the presentation, probably sometime in the

744
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:11,760
next week or so with a recording of the presentation and be posting it on rss.com and fountain.fm.

745
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:18,520
Like I said, you can reach out to myself and Chris directly if you like to. I'm at Nick

746
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:26,480
Molster on Twitter. I think Chris is at Chris Lass on Twitter. So if you have any questions,

747
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:30,720
please hit us up. I want to thank everyone again for joining today. It's been a great

748
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:36,400
pleasure to speak to you all and share some of this wisdom. And yeah, good luck. If you're

749
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:44,080
new to this, like we said, just be patient, experiment, and don't give up too soon. And

750
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:48,640
we're really excited about future of Value for Value, what it brings. Definitely kind

751
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:53,360
of keep following us and check out some of the new features and things we're going to

752
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:57,520
be bringing through the pipeline in the next year. So thank you, everyone. Speak to you

753
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:06,080
soon. Thanks, everyone. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thanks. Bye, y'all.