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So what would your advice be for the little guy that's trying to fight

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to keep their podcast going?

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Um, I mean, the main message would be you have to figure out number

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one, why you're doing it, right?

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Just get really clear on, on why you have this podcast and what your intention is

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for it, because if it's to replace your current income and to quit your day job

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or that sort of thing, it's entirely possible, but you're going to have to

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leverage the audience that you're building in ways outside of CPM.

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You're just, you're just not going to get there on a cost per thousand basis.

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You're just not going to make enough money.

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So, so really begin to think about, let's just say, complimentary products,

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programs and services that you can offer in conjunction with the show.

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And I'm not talking about coffee mugs, coffee mugs aren't going to do it.

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Yeah.

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You know, you're going to have to come up with some, some higher value items

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that the audience looks at and goes, oh yeah, I need that.

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Um, because that's what's going to keep the lights on.

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That's what's going to actually put some money in your pocket.

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And, um, and ultimately you have to think about it, not in terms of your

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podcast, the business, because again, from most shows, um, you're not going

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to get to 10,000 downloads a month.

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Yeah.

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That's just, that's just the harsh reality.

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Um, most shows won't get there.

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And so it doesn't mean however, that you can't leverage the

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business of podcasting, right?

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So if you, if you get out of the mindset of looking at your podcast as a business

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and really think more about it holistically in terms of the business,

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uh, of podcasting and what that includes and what that entails, um, then you

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may stand a better chance of, uh, uh, of having some sustainability here.

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Do you almost mean like making your podcast like complimentary to your

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business that you already own, like you using it as a marketing arm?

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Um, potentially that, that is one way to do it, depending on the show.

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Um, the other thing is, you know, if you just have a lunch, uh, lunch, if you

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just have, uh, I can sell them with you, tell them hungry.

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Uh, if you just have, uh, an interest in launching a show, uh, about, um, I

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don't know, maybe you're, uh, maybe you're a DJ and you just love DJ.

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Um, and you just love music and that sort of thing.

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Then maybe what you can do is, is you can get tickets to, uh, to an event.

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And, um, you know, maybe you can give those tickets away in exchange

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for something at the event.

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So you get visibility at that event, or maybe you can get

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discounted tickets for something.

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And then you can make a margin on that.

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Or maybe you can teach people how to DJ, uh, or maybe you can get

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discounts on, uh, you know, on songs from certain producers and then resell those.

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Um, you know, just think about products, programs, services, uh, and, you know,

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ultimately the best thing to do is to get people in a room.

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So, you know, if you had a, uh, you know, podcast about DJing and you love a

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particular genre of music, um, put together an event, you know, and get

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other people who love that sort of music and get everybody together and get

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everybody promoting this thing, uh, and get people there to the event, because

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then you can get ticket sales, you can get sponsors, um, you know, you can

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potentially build your mailing list and, you know, just give you an opportunity

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to, to really grow, um, you know, grow that business, but just have to think

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holistically about it and you gotta get pretty creative.

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Um, but now there's, there just aren't a lot of options, uh, in the ad space.

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Right now for really making enough money to, to, to make a difference from most

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shows, so you're going to have to find others, other revenue sources.