Hey everyone, Ashton here with RSS.com.
In today's episode, we're chatting with Tom McNeil, who's senior partner manager at Patreon.
We'll be chatting all about how to build community with Patreon.
Enjoy the show.
Alrighty, welcome to the show everyone.
I am so excited to have Tom McNeil here with Patreon.
Tom, can you do us a favor, introduce yourself and tell us what it is you do?
Absolutely.
Hi, Ashley.
Hi everybody.
My name is Tom McNeil.
I work at Patreon, where I am one of the senior partner managers on the creator success team.
What that means that I work with some of the biggest creators, biggest podcasters on the
platform and I understand, work with them to understand their business, give them the
tools to do it better and then amplify their success moments both externally so everybody
hears about what people are doing really well on Patreon and then also internally so that
we can make it a better product by understanding how people are using Patreon to the best of
their and our abilities.
That's awesome.
Now for anybody who's been living under a rock, can you tell us what is Patreon?
Great question.
Yeah, Patreon is a membership platform that makes it easy for creators to build meaningful
memberships with their fans.
And what that means, like with an example, is that say like one of my favorite True Crime
podcasts is True Crime Obsessed.
So I can listen to the podcast and the world outside of Patreon on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,
whatever it might be.
And then if I want more, it means I can sign up to them for $5 a month, say, and get access
to exclusive content and be part of a really beautiful community of people who also share
that passion of like listening to True Crime Obsessed.
So that is in a nutshell what Patreon does.
Okay, so how do podcasters sign up for it and what would be the benefit of it for them?
Yeah, great question.
So in terms of signing up, super straightforward.
You go to patreon.com and you start signing up as a creator and that's totally free.
You don't pay any money in terms of building your own profile and launching it to the world.
And what's the advantage?
Well, one of the really cool things about Patreon that we see in the podcasting space
in particular is that unlike like advertisements and selling on BPM, like really having to
build thousands and thousands of listeners before you can really start monetizing from
a branded advertising perspective, you can launch a membership and start really bringing
a consistent, reliable, repeatable form of monetization into your work by your fans who
love your show.
And the thing that we consistently see at Patreon is that fans really show up and really
care about podcasters.
Like they don't care really about like how well the podcast is performing in the market
or whether they've taken a week off because they need to get the relaxation in or whatever
that might be.
So it's really beautiful for the fans who get more of the thing that they love.
And it's really robust and strategic for the podcaster who's able to plan their future
based on this predictable income that they have.
Okay, so whoa, wait a minute.
We got to back up for a second.
So you don't even have to have any listeners to have a following on Patreon?
That's a great clarifying question.
So the thing I was saying is that you could launch a membership at whatever stage of your
podcasting journey you're on.
The thing that's different between starting a membership and building kind of like ad
based revenue is that say like, say you've got 1000 listeners and 10% of them visit your
Patreon page and 10% of those visitors actually become patrons.
Then let's say that they become patrons at the $5 level.
That if my maths isn't awful, is about 50 bucks worth of repeating recurring predictable
revenue that's coming into your show.
Now in order to build any form of like ad based revenue, you have to build your listenership
into like thousands of thousands of like 10, 20, 50,000, 100,000, whatever it might be.
Whereas membership is something that you can get going with at a very early stage of your
podcast long.
And in fact, we've worked with some creators who launched their podcast without any form
of ambition to bring in advertisers where the membership is really the entire driving
force behind it.
So to give an example there, I was a big podcaster, but Stacey Schroeder decided to launch a podcast
called The Good, The Bad, and The Baby and was documenting her journey as a mother.
And when she launched her podcast, she was doing it entirely within Patreon.
So she told people about it on her social media, but then the podcast entirely lived
within Patreon for her fans, for the people who were becoming members.
You know, what's incredible about that to me is like even with Podcorn, which is one
of our partners that we work with for monetization, they generally say, you know, you have to
have at least 1000 downloads before you can get started.
So it sounds like even before I launch a podcast, I could go ahead and start building a community
on Patreon.
Is that right?
That's something we could do.
Yeah, actually, it's really, really flexible.
The thing I would say typically for podcasters is that it is a good idea to have a public
facing part of your work as well as the membership.
So a great way to kind of grow what we might describe as your top of funnel is by launching
a Patreon, sorry, launching a podcast into the into the world of RSS beads and wherever
people will get their podcasts.
And then to have a call to action that says if you liked this free podcast that you're
listening to right now and you want to get more content and more community, you can go
to patreon.com forward slash your podcast and then offer those things.
The way that I think about that just strategically is like giving free samples to people outside
a pie shop.
So you know, you might have the town's best pies inside your pie shop.
But the way to get people through the door by giving out a free sample so that somebody
like me walking past is not ending to buy a pie, has a free taste and goes, oh, that's
the best pie in the world and then goes and buys into multiple pies multiple times.
And that's the same kind of principle of having your public facing part of the podcast where
people can hear it for free, get a taste for it, and then you invite them through the door
into your membership.
So it sounds like it's a really great way to build community with a podcast.
Yeah, it's an incredibly good way to build community with a podcast.
And something that we see also is that community is just so sticky as well for podcasters and
for their fans.
By the time that you really start creating an environment that's not algorithmically
driven but is just human driven, people really form connections, form enthusiasm.
We heard some amazing stories of Patreon where somebody has started a community, the community
like made friends with each other, and then they do stuff like buying presents for somebody's
baby shower or going to somebody's wedding or contributing to like major life events.
And it's not the creator, the podcaster who's coordinating that.
It's just the fans with each other because they've found something that they all love.
It's really brought them together and it's had real life impact for all of them.
So you mean instead of being listener 26479, I'm actually a name.
Yeah, you're exactly that Ashley.
You're fully Ashley in that membership.
And yeah, I think that's really, it's a really good point as well because it's podcasting
in particular, as you know, like the magic of it is often that you don't know how many
other people are listening.
Like it feels very personal because it's just in your ears, like you're having a conversation
with your favorite podcaster.
And what's really special about that membership experience is you're right, like you stop
going, you stop being like an anonymous number and you can make friends with other people
who love the same thing and are really invested in it.
And also kind of like have a closer relationship with the creator and the podcaster, which
is really cool.
Now, I kind of want to talk a little bit about Patreon itself.
You had mentioned, you know, it could be patreon.com backslash the name of your podcast.
So when you get an account with Patreon, you can create a handle that matches your brand.
Yeah, exactly.
So I'm very customizable and getting even more customizable, but we want membership
spaces to really feel like they're part of the culture of a show, the culture of a creator,
the culture of a podcaster and their fans.
So yeah, you customize your URL so that it's very kind of ownable, very branded, very memorable
as well.
So that when you're saying on your podcast, you can go to patreon.com forward slash RSS.
Everybody is like, oh, great.
I know that you can put your link in your bio, of course, and put it in the show description.
But being able to say it out loud, being able to say something that's very on brand for
you is exactly what you can do on Patreon.
And you can also customize the banner image, the tier names, the tier images, the profile
pictures, you can have video introducing what it's all about.
So many different tools to really make sure that it reflects who you are and what you
do.
Well, to that note, I guess I should say that, you know, if anybody who is listening to this
is a user of RSS, if you have a Patreon, you can actually add the link to your Patreon
in your donate button or your website button.
So if you don't have a website and you want to drive people to your Patreon, for example,
you can actually put your link directly into your account.
Now, so you said that it doesn't cost anything to get started.
But what would someone need to know?
Like what kind of deliverables would be recommended for the best chances of success?
Yeah, love the question.
Oh, these are great.
Okay, so in terms of setting yourself up to success, the main thing that you want to think
about as a podcaster starting a Patreon are what are your tiers?
What are your benefits?
And by that, what I mean is that you can as a podcaster, as the creator, decide on your
own price points, which I think is really cool, because it means that you're able to
make the most of your expertise of your audience.
You'll have a sense of like, hey, what's affordable?
What's a median level of affordable?
And what's kind of at the top end?
So just kind of if you're starting with a blank piece of paper, start with one tier,
you know, if you're just like looking, looking to get going, and I would typically recommend
based on kind of what we've seen in our launches that you want it to be about the price of
a cup of coffee, like something between maybe three and five bucks, depending on how fancy
your coffee is depending on where you're buying it.
But something where somebody can easily go like, Oh, yeah, I can afford that every month.
Click, I'm in.
So pick something that feels very affordable, whether it's one tier or three tiers, make
sure that the entry level or single tier is affordable.
So that's thing number one.
Thing number two is thinking, okay, what are the benefits that I'm gonna put in line with
this tier?
And if you're just going for that one tier strategy, the things that we see working time
and time again, that work really well for podcasters really well for their fans, our
blend of content and community.
So to break that out like a little bit further, the way I've been thinking about it is, okay,
I'm making one podcast episode every week that my fans get.
Do I have the bandwidth to make them a bonus episode that goes out once a month?
Or okay, I've got my Twitter, my Instagram or like whatever social channel is the best
one for engaging people and broadening the podcast reach.
So if I was to have a version of community in my Patreon, in my membership, where I start
a patron only discord, or I do a monthly Q&A, or I do a weekly poll about a topic that we're
going to cover in the podcast that only my members can vote on.
So I think that the key kind of conversations to have are number one, what's affordable
for the fans, so that you're actually putting something in the market that's going to make
them excited.
And also, what's affordable for the creator in terms of the time that they're going to
spend making it.
Is it a bonus episode every month?
Some podcasters do a bonus episode every week.
Is it an always on discord?
Or is it a once monthly Q&A, but thinking about something that's going to be sustainable,
so that you can launch it confidently and know that you are going to be able to grow
it in a way that feels really healthy and compatible with the rest of your business.
I like that you said that because one of the big things that I've been hearing from people
in the community is they're afraid to start a membership type site because they're afraid
it's going to take so much extra time.
And one of the things that I have seen some people do that I think is just brilliant is
if they have a guest on their show, they will just keep their guest on a little bit longer
and release some of it to the public and then release the rest of it to their membership
community.
So I think it's a great idea.
I think it's something that everyone should consider.
I'm curious though, from the subscriber standpoint, how does it work when someone comes on to
someone's Patreon page and they want to sign up as a contributor?
How does that work from their perspective?
Yeah, totally.
So it's going to be a similar journey for that person in as much as they're going to
go to a Patreon page, patreon.com forward slash RSS, if that's something that you were
putting as part of the Paul Caff Ashley.
And they're going to see those tiers and benefits that you've designed and they're going to
get to make a decision about what they sign up for.
So to give you an example, there is a podcaster that I work with podcasters, ladies and tangents,
Jerry and Asyara.
And when you go to their page, you see different tier options.
And if it's a $5 level that you really want to sign up for, where you're going to get
a bonus episode every month, where you're going to get the opportunity to vote as part
of episodes, where you're going to be able to get early access to releases projects.
I'm going to see the $5 button, I'm going to click through on it, and then go through
like a standard checkout flow where I'm able to select a payment option that I want to
use.
And that will then become part of my regular billing.
And as soon as that happens, I get full access to everything that's on that page at that
tier level.
Now when you say full access, do you mean like anything that's been released previously
as well as now?
Yeah, exactly.
So it's a sort of thing where the creator is kind of really paying it forward to themselves
because the more of an inventory of cool kind of like content and community moments that
they've had, the more the value proposition grows for the audience member.
So say like, you launch your Patreon today, October, wherever, whenever this is going
out, I don't know when this is going out.
So you launched it today, today's day one.
And I hear about it on day one.
And I go, some people are going to go, yes, straight away.
Some super fans are just like, yes, I'm in.
Some people have seen the standout for Patreon, like when Joe Budden launched his Patreon,
he launched it like five days before there was any content or community.
And so many of his fans are just like, we're in, we're in, we don't even know what this
is going to be, I'm in.
Which is amazing.
Let's say like, I might hear about that and sign up on day one.
I might hear about it and be one of those consumers needs.
Other marketing touch points, other advertising moments where the idea of something has to
reach me a few times before I sign up for it.
So say on day one, I go there and there's one bonus episode and I think, okay, that's
interesting, but yeah, I'm not sure.
Hear about it again five days later or a week later.
Go and have a look at it.
Oh, that's interesting.
Another bonus episode.
That's kind of cool.
Maybe I go back.
I'm sure about it.
I go back 30 days later and I see that there's three bonus episodes and there's a monthly
Q&A coming up.
I'm going to get access to a discord.
The value proposition is growing and it makes it easier to bring people in and grow the
membership beyond just the first people who are like the wider dies.
I'll go there straight away.
So yeah, full access to the archive of material that's in there and then even more promising
appealing value proposition for your fans.
Yeah.
I'm definitely kind of experiencing FOMO right now with one of the podcasters I follow.
There's a couple of girls that have created a podcast and they release private episodes
on their Patreon and you can't get them anywhere else.
It's not early access.
It's like private access.
So I think it's interesting giving someone access to something that they normally wouldn't
be able to have access to because that FOMO, it is real.
Yeah.
So I love that you use the word FOMO because that is exactly it.
And something that I really see working really well for podcasters who are going to the trouble
of creating those bonus episodes is actually putting a little taster or teeter of that
out in the market, out in the like for the listeners.
So you know, because there's nothing quite like FOMO when you've got a kind of a little
sense of what it is that you're missing out on.
So if I say to you like, hey, I've got a bonus episode, how do you might think of what that's
like?
If I say, I've just released a bonus episode on my Patreon and I'm going to give you the
first three minutes of it for free.
And so what's coming up is the first three minutes of the bonus episode.
And at the end of it, you say, hey, if you really enjoy listening to this, you can get
the rest of it right now on my Patreon.
That's a really good way of attracting people's attention.
Not the bill to your FOMO.
Absolutely.
I don't mean to build to the FOMO, but you know.
Absolutely.
Because if I hear that and I'm like, oh my God, I got to hear more.
So do you have any other tips that you would suggest to Patreon users to earn more money
on their pages?
Yeah.
That's a really great, really great question.
So yeah, I had a great session with our finance at Patreon.
He was doing some office hours and he was talking about a consulting framework where
if as a consultant, you go into the company, you ask two questions.
Is this company making money?
How's it losing money?
So in terms of growing a Patreon, I think it's really smart for casters to think about
the top of their funnel.
Like how are they bringing people into the membership?
And then the bottom of the funnel, like how am I retaining people within that membership?
So it's not, you know, you've built this bucket, let's make sure it's not leaking and let's
make sure there's good stuff coming in the top.
So first bit, in terms of growing the membership, there's some tactics, data back tactics that
we see working consistently well for pod casters and their memberships in terms of growing
them.
First, let's start with a principle.
Make your membership part of the culture of your show.
By that, what I mean is that it's something that you always have something interesting
to say about that your fans know is a place that they go for exclusive content, where
you're even cheeky and say something like, you know what, I think we're going to have
to save this for the Patreon because this is going to be a bit too spicy for the real
world.
Or as you were saying, like, this has been such a great conversation.
And as you all know, we're going to have 20 minutes more with this guest on the Patreon.
We can also get access to other really cool benefits like early access or patron on the
merch or a patron on the discord.
But make it part of the culture of your show so that it feels very organic when you're
talking about it.
And that's a really good principle for building the Patreon as well.
Look at it and go, I'm proud of this.
It's just something I'm going to be able to integrate.
Is it fun?
Does it fit my culture?
Is it going to fit me?
Is it going to fit my guests and my fans?
But yeah, make it part of the culture of your show so it doesn't stand out like it's an
advert.
So yeah, make it part of the culture.
That's a principle.
In terms of actual growth tactics, we've got some really good research on the best ways
that creators, podcasters in particular, grow on the platform.
So these tips are actually specific to podcasters.
I'm going to refer to them in kind of like cute little pet names for tactics.
The first one is the teaser tactic, and that's what we've just kind of talked about in terms
of putting a little free taste out in the market.
It's the pie shop.
It's standing at the front and saying, here, have a free sample of my bonus episode.
Get on my Patreon.
And then when you've shared 5% of it, say, hey, do you want to hear the rest of this?
Go to patreon.com forward slash your podcast name where you can get access to that right
now.
That is by far and away the tactic I've seen work most consistently for podcasters in terms
of growing their memberships.
I think it's largely because you have access to an RSS feed.
Like this isn't just me kind of like blowing smoke here, but you know, if you're publishing
things in other environments which are algorithmically driven, a percentage of your fans will see
that, but not all of them.
Whereas if you built your podcast following up around an RSS feed, around people who are
subscribed to you on Spotify or Apple or wherever it might be, by dropping a teaser into your
feed, people are going to see that and they are going to hear that.
That's tip number one, teaser tactic.
Tip number two for podcasters is doing a part one and a part two.
What I mean by that is that you share the whole of your part one on your RSS feed.
This is something that True Crime Obsessed do really well.
They do the first part of the two part show.
And at the end of part one, they say, you're going to be able to hear the rest of this
story in a week's time here on the feed.
Unless you want to hear it right now, in which case you can go to our Patreon where you can
get access to part two right now, along with a bunch of other really cool bits of content
and benefits.
So that's a really strong way again of kind of giving people a taste of what they might
be able to get when they get inside the Patreon.
So that's that's tip number two is the teaser is the part two tactic.
So we've got the teaser tactic and the part two tactic.
Third tip is one that you've mentioned already, actually, the extended episode.
Essentially, this is something that podcasters, video podcasters called the Yards do really
well.
So the Yards have their podcast and YouTube is one of the main places that they find their
audience and they do about 60 minutes that goes out for free.
And then they do a bit of click bait.
They say like, hey, wasn't there that story you were going to tell us about your mom embarrassing
you at your birthday party when you're five years old?
And the person will be like, yeah, I mean, I'm going to tell that story, but I'm not
going to tell it on YouTube.
I want to tell it on Patreon.
And they go and tell the rest of the story.
They do another extended part of the episode for 30 minutes over there.
So those are kind of like three episode specific recommendations that I'd make.
The other thing that I would say is kind of embracing those tactics in your social media
as well.
So again, teasing out bonus content by clipping together an audio clip or a video clip, sharing
it on your Instagram, sharing it on your Twitter, sharing it on your Facebook.
It's something that yeah, we see like loads of different kind of creators do incredibly
well.
I think like the reads, for example, do a really great kind of things of ranting and
reading the bonus audio segment that they do as part of their show.
And just going to put it on your Instagram like, hey, this bonus bit of content is live
right now on the Patreon creates another one of those marketing touch points that we talked
about.
Somebody might have heard about your Patreon and know that you have one, but then it's
on the Instagram, for instance, where they see, oh, that bonus segment talking about
that topic or that guest.
I love that.
I want that.
I want to become a member.
So those are four tactics and one principle for growing your Patreon as a growth fit.
In terms of retaining people, really, really straightforward here.
Make sure that you're delivering what you said you would.
So if you said you're going to get one bonus episode a month and a month of Q&A and the
ability to vote on show topics, deliver that.
And ideally, if you've got the bandwidth, go a little bit above it.
Like maybe you get like a bonus episode and a half.
Maybe you get like a couple of Q&A's that surprise and delight the people that are inside
your Patreon so that they feel really, really seen and valued.
And if you are thinking kind of long term about retaining this group of people, you
can also embrace tactics like telling them what's coming up for the rest of the month
or what's coming up in the new month, but just giving people the experience that you
might get when you're watching a TV show, like you're watching something on HBO and
it's like, hey, next time on the show.
And they're starting to hook you in to the next episode before the first one's even finished.
And that's the same thing you can do with your membership.
You know, we've had a great month on the Patreon.
October's been amazing.
Let me tell you about some stuff coming up in November.
The great way of nurturing the FOMO that you were talking about, Ashley, like, well, this
month's been fantastic.
I don't want to miss out on what's happening next month.
I'm hooking people in like that.
I'm really glad you said a couple things.
First you were saying, well, first of all, I really want some pie now.
We've talked about pie a lot.
So I really want some pie.
But you had said, you know, make sure that the thing you promise you're going to deliver
that you actually deliver.
I'm so glad you said that because I actually was subscribed as a subscriber to a Patreon
member and he kept promising, you know, these free bonus episodes every month and he never
delivered.
And so of course, you know, you pull out, you're like, all right, I'm done.
I don't want to subscribe anymore.
So I'm so glad you said that.
And I also like how you were talking about everything with how to not make it so spammy.
And what I mean by that is you're talking about doing it organically, promoting it organically
and making it feel not so much like an advert as you called it.
So I have to ask you one last question that I ask everyone before I let them go.
And that is one thing.
What is one thing I did not ask that you really wish I had?
Great question.
I love that.
All right.
Everybody wants to be flippant and like, I'll do the, I'll do the serious one first and
then I'll do the bonus bit of episode, the bonus content, which is the flippant one.
Which will be on our Patreon.
I'm just kidding.
Okay.
So the thing that I wish you'd asked was why is Patreon such a great place for podcasters
specifically?
And because we are, we're creator founded and I think that like very well known now,
like one of the reasons that we have creators and being creator first in our DNA is because
we're founded by a creator.
One of the things that's really special about podcasting though, is that it has always been
a very strong, strong genre on our, on our platform.
And actually podcasts have doubled in the course of the last three years and they're
now actually earning fourfold what they used to three years ago.
So there's huge growth.
And with that comes another really cool thing.
That is that podcast listeners know what a Patreon is.
And they know that because so many people have launched really successful Patreons and
memberships in the podcasting space, that as a podcaster, you can be confident that
they know what it is that you're launching.
They're already kind of sold on the idea.
So you don't have to explain what Patreon is.
They already kind of sense.
You just have to explain what your Patreon is.
Why you're excited about that.
And it is one of my favorite things to see on the internet.
When the comments that I see under a Patreon launch, like on social media, are things like,
this is the Patreon that I've been waiting for.
I love seeing that because it shows so clearly the podcast listeners know exactly what it
is that you are talking about.
They're totally ready.
Many of them will already be subscribed to their payment details are already in the system.
It will be really interesting, really easy to bring them in.
And all you have to do is really explain to them what your version of a Patreon is.
I saw it happen with the Reads, who we talked about before.
But yeah, I saw when they launched loads of their fans, they're like, damn, okay, yeah,
this is the one I'm waiting for.
I'm there for it.
I'm in.
That's what I want every podcaster to experience is that glow of knowing that their super fans,
their biggest supporters and listeners are waiting for them to launch their Patreon and
we get them to do it.
Alright, so did you get both of them in?
Or you only got the serious one in?
Okay, yeah, fair, fair.
So, so I thought what I would flip on one question I wish you'd ask me, I guess because
it's turning into a particular season in the year is like, what's my favorite Starbucks
seasonal coffee?
That's the one that I was like, yeah, that's going to be very revealing of my inner soul
when I tell you like, what's my favorite seasonal coffee?
And the answer actually, if you'd asked me that, was a Java chip Frappuccino.
Now that is not a very Halloweeny or Christmasy drink.
They used to do that in the UK.
They discontinued them, I assume because I drank too many.
Not everybody else drank enough.
So that's, yeah, that's my point.
That's my bonus content.
Okay, you know what, I'm going to ask you one more question.
It wasn't on the list.
It wasn't even in my purview, but because you brought up the coffee.
If you're drinking coffee, what pie are you eating with it?
I am into that.
I'm into that so much.
Oh gosh, you know, because there's not a very strong pie culture in the UK.
Like people who are enthusiastic about pie are usually telling you about a mathematical
principle which starts 3.14.
3.14, hope it is, my math teacher's probably dying right now.
So since moving to the States, I have developed a taste for pumpkin pie.
I really like it.
It's like, and I feel this is part of my naturalization process is having a favorite pie to go with
the coffee.
But I would love to hear from you, Ashley, is that an acceptable answer?
And what's your favorite pie to have with some coffee?
I think it's a very acceptable answer, but mine is not nearly as fun because it's not
necessarily like seasonal, but I love my mom whenever I was growing up, we always had chocolate
pudding pie.
And so that's something, you know, come Thanksgiving and Christmas, I get very excited about is
chocolate pudding pie.
So good.
I love that.
Now everybody, I hope everybody listening to this goes out and get the pie immediately.
I hope they get a pie and I hope they get a Patreon.
The two P's.
Yeah, it's like we planned it or something.
Where can everyone find you online?
Absolutely.
So you can get me on Twitter.
I am at fool with words.
Fool is spelled F O O L with words.
And if anybody wants to ask me about Patreon questions specifically, you can get me on
LinkedIn where I am Tom McNeil.
I work for Patreon and I will gladly answer all of your mentioned questions.
Fantastic.
Well, we will put all of the links in the show notes and Tom, I just want to say thank
you so much for being here today.
Thank you for everything that you answered and all the amazing points that you gave us.
Yeah, it's a pleasure.
I, as you can probably tell, I'm not doing a good job of hiding that I love the nerdiness
of all of this.
And yeah, the podcasting community is really special and I feel very grateful to be part
of it.
Well, what I love so much, I mean, I know we're kind of wrapping up here, but I love
the fact that with Patreon, you can really have your listeners invested in what you're
about to do.
Because I mean, yes, they're paying you and whatever, but just the fact that they're showing
up and really contributing to the conversation, it becomes more than just a talking head,
talking into a microphone and into a camera.
It's really building a community and I think that's really special.
Yeah, totally.
It's, as we all know, it can be lonely.
It can be lonely making a podcast.
It can be lonely making a show, especially if you're just kind of there talking into
a mic.
And yeah, and it was really cool working with Josh Molina and Rishi Keerwe.
And he's very famous for the West Wing song, Exploder, and their podcast, West Wing Weekly.
And they pivoted to doing a video podcast called Unnecessary Commentary, where they
do a watch along.
It's very cool.
And what's really clear is that there's like a real buzz about actually, as you're saying,
putting names to faces and faces to names.
It's a two-way experience.
It's not just that the fans get to meet each other and that they get to meet their favorite
creator, but that the podcaster gets to know those people on the other side of the microphone
as well.
So yeah, it's really cool.
That is awesome.
Well, thank you again so much.
And yeah, if anybody wants to set up a Patreon, you should definitely check out the links
in our show notes.
Well, my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips, and ideas shared in this
episode.
To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to rss.com backslash
blog.
And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with
your first episode on us.
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