Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com.
I'm so excited to bring you Andrew Olloman of Podcast Guest.com.
It's also known as the hero for podcasters.
Enjoy the show.
Andrew, welcome to the show.
Thanks.
It's great to be here.
Well, I'm just super stoked to have you here because I've actually been like kind of sneaking
around and watching Podcast Guest.com.
So tell me a little bit about what it is you do and kind of the backstory of how it came
to be.
Sure.
So Podcast Guest.com is a free platform that connects podcasters with guests for their shows.
And the backstory is I'm a podcaster.
I've been podcasting for many years.
I recently published episode number 400 of my podcast.
And after about a year of podcasting, I do the guest format like a lot of people.
I was running out of guests.
I kind of tapped my Rolodex and I'd invited all the people I know that were relevant.
And then I was looking around like, how can I find someone new and interesting?
And so I looked around to see if there would be a platform to help me find guests for my
show.
And at the time, the only alternatives were these agencies which do a great job, but they're
expensive.
And I think most podcasters don't want to spend thousands of dollars a month finding
guests for their show.
So I decided to create my own platform.
And that was PodcastGuest.com.
Now when did it launch and how did it first like, whenever you rolled it out, what did
it look like?
Sure.
So I started in 2016 and I modeled the service off of a popular tool that PR people use,
which is called Helper Reporter Out or HARO.
And people use that to find people to interview for usually for their written articles, right?
Like I need someone who has a mortgage and they change jobs when they had mortgages,
right?
Someone's writing something for a Wall Street Journal, they'll send out their request.
That's how they get a lot of those responses, right?
You know, those kind of esoteric responses.
So I decided to try the same thing for podcasts.
And so it started just on email.
So we'd send out an email every week that said, here's some podcasts looking for guests.
And if you're a fit, pitch to them.
So people click a link, they'd fill out a pitch form.
So very much just like Helper Reporter Out.
And then over time, the user started asking for more, right?
They're like, hey, this is great, but it'd be wonderful if there was a way for say, podcasters
to come to me and invite me on their show because I'm looking through your lists and
I might be a fit for some of them, but my story doesn't really fit into those categories,
those neat categories.
And so over time, we added our directory, which now has about a thousand people in it.
And that allows podcasters to see who you are and what makes you interesting and invite
you to be a guest on their show.
That's amazing.
So now when the platform first began, did you have trouble getting people to sign up
on it or was it pretty quickly that everybody wanted part of it?
Well, I mean, it's certainly grown over time, right?
So now we have over 38,000 people.
And the first time I sent out an email, we had maybe 100 or 200.
And so I just reached out to podcasters I knew, I reached out to my podcast editor and other
people and said, hey, you know, I have this problem.
I imagine other people do.
If you have this problem, would you be interested in trying this out for me?
I don't know if it'll work, but let's give it a shot.
It's completely free.
And in it, you know, started growing slowly at first.
And then there was a lot of word of mouth, right?
Like podcasters telling other podcasters about, hey, this is where I find guests or even saying
on their show, I found this guest through podcastguest.com.
And so it started to grow fairly rapidly from there, but it started out small.
I would send out maybe four or five podcasts a week.
Now we send out two emails every week with 10 podcasts.
We're featuring 20 podcasts every week.
Wow.
That's a lot.
So 38,000 users, how in the world does someone not get lost in the shuffle?
Yeah.
So when we feature podcasts in our newsletter, they get typically, some of them will get
about five responses if they're very specific and others will get over a hundred, right?
And the ones that get over a hundred, it is more challenging to get booked on no shows.
They tend to mirror podcasts in general.
So entrepreneurship podcasts, for example, business, things that are really popular and
really broad tend to get the most.
But then there are some that only get a handful because they're pretty specific.
I'm always amazed.
I had someone recently who was looking for musicians from the 60s, 70s and 80s who were
fairly popular.
And sure enough, they got about five pitches from people that were in bands that were kind
of popular back then over those decades, right?
So even though it's kind of specific and out there, they do get pitches.
So when it comes to, from a guest perspective, getting booked on podcasts, they need to really
make that pitch perfect, right?
And perfect's too much of work, but they need to hone it and get pretty specific about what
they can talk about and what makes them unique and different from other guests that are going
on their show.
I always tell people to what's called niche down, which is don't be super broad.
Like I'm a business person and I can talk about business on your show.
Well, there are millions of people that would meet that.
Be more specific, right?
So maybe you help law firms that are in the technology space in the Midwest find new clients,
right?
And so your expertise is how can this type of law firm find new clients?
It's more specific and it's more likely to grab the attention as long as it's relevant
to that podcaster.
Now from a host perspective, what should the host be asking for?
Like if you're trying to get very specific stuff, like how should they go about asking
the questions to get those guests that they're specifically looking for?
Right.
So there are two ways that podcasters, when they're using podcastguest.com can use our
system, our platform, if you will, to find guests.
And so one way is they can be one of those featured podcasts in our newsletter.
And so they tell us exactly what they're looking for and guests.
And you could say, I'm looking for this, this, and this, or you can go a little bit broader
as well if you want to get the biggest number, potentially at a hundred plus people to pitch
to you, right?
The other thing is you can search through our directory at podcastguests.com slash directory
and you can search by category, you can search by keyword to find people.
If you're looking for something very specific, you might find them amongst that thousand,
but it tends to do even better if we can feature you so that even the people that aren't in
that new, aren't in the directory can say, Hey, that's me.
And basically raise their hand and tell you why, why they're a fit for your show.
Now in your opinion, what is the, like if someone wanted to do guest swaps, for example,
because that used to be a big thing.
Everybody was just guest swapping.
How do you feel that is versus using podcastguest.com?
Yeah.
So, uh, guest swaps are a great way to grow your show.
In fact, I think the number one way for a podcaster to grow their show is to be a guest
on other shows.
Right.
When you think about it, a hundred percent of the people listening to that other show
are podcast listeners, right?
So you know, it's the most targeted medium for you to use compared to social media or
anything like that.
And so swaps are one thing you can do.
And I think it makes a lot of sense if you know, some podcasters that might be interested
in doing guest swaps, right?
But a lot of times it's hard to find and there's a lot of outreach involved.
And so that's why that's one of the things.
Now with podcastguest, you're just offering to be a guest on the show, but you could always,
of course, say after you're on that show, hey, do you want to be a guest on my show?
Right.
So you can always offer that.
But it's really a matter of what, you know, if you have a huge network of fellow podcasters
and they're all kind of relevant to your space.
And I absolutely recommend talking to some of them about doing swaps.
In our case, we're not, um, one thing that we're very careful about is that you're not
demanding any sort of reciprocity or payment or anything for a guest appearance.
Now we do tell our guests to help promote that show after they're on them and you should
always offer that up.
That's a great way to get booked on shows.
And you're more likely to get booked on more shows if you do a lot of that promoting other
people's shows once you're on them.
Um, but you know, we, we avoid any of that kind of tit for tat kind of quip pro quo kind
of stuff, if you will.
And honestly, that's kind of why I like podcastguest.com is because it's, it's so much more than just,
Hey, let's just be on a bunch of shows.
It feels like it's a more professional route of, Hey, this is what I'm trying to get out.
This is my message.
And so I'm using this to make sure I'm only going on the shows that really matter to my
audience.
Yeah.
And I recommend a lot of people try to get on as many shows as possible.
And there are some benefits to that.
Like every show you go on is practice if nothing else, right?
You're getting better at your messaging.
You're getting better at your speaking.
But I always encourage people to look for the ones that really have their target audience.
I'd much rather go on a show with a hundred listeners.
That's very specific to my audience than one with thousands of listeners that probably
don't really care about what I do.
Right.
So as an example, I'm on the RSS.com show right now.
Everyone listening is into podcasting, right?
So that's much better than going on a big show where very few people care about podcasting
or finding guests for their show.
Absolutely.
In your opinion, whenever someone's going to show up to be a guest, what should they
be prepared for or how should they go about the preparal process?
Yeah.
So this is tricky.
And I think we found that there are people that treat it differently, treat their appearances
differently and come with different levels of preparedness.
And so you want to find, you need to do two things.
One you want to try to weed out the people that aren't going to be professional or match.
They don't necessarily have to be professional.
Maybe your show is about beer and maybe you're looking for someone different.
But is to prepare them for it and then try to weed out the people that aren't going to
be a fit for that.
And there are a couple of ways you can do that.
So first of all, ahead of the show, send them what your expectations are.
So say, find a quiet space.
I mean, it's amazing.
I've heard of people getting calls in from people who are driving in their car and they're
calling in to record a podcast.
Or my wife had a situation where someone's like, yeah, I'm in the airport lounge.
I'm ready to do this interview.
She's like, no, that's not going to work.
So you need to set expectations with them.
Explain to them, quiet place, external microphone.
Don't just use the microphone in your laptop.
Ideally, they have earbuds to help prevent echoes.
And then I like to also prepare guests with an outline of what we're going to talk about.
I don't necessarily give them the questions, but I say these are kind of the five things
we're going to talk about.
And I do give them the specific question up front if it's something they might need to
research.
So I might say, how many new customers are on your platform this year?
Well, even if you ask me that about podcastguest.com, I wouldn't know off the top of my head.
So it's good to give that kind of question ahead of time so that they have the answer
that you're looking for.
And the other thing is weeding people out.
Ideally, you can listen to them on another podcast for at least a few minutes so you
can kind of see, OK, are they coherent?
Are they just pitching their own product or service which you don't want, that sort of
thing?
So do a little bit of that legwork up front to prevent those kind of disaster scenarios
with a guest.
Now, have you had any of these disaster scenarios?
I'd love to know.
You know, I've had a few where they get a little pitchy.
You know, they're like, well, let me tell you about my seven step process, you know,
and that sort of thing.
And so but, you know, out of the 400 I've done, there have only been a few.
And then there have been others where the person just gets really nervous.
And I've had even people where during our pre-interview, they're perfectly fine.
As soon as I tell them I'm starting to record, they just start, they lose their train of
thought, right?
And you can't do it.
Now, thankfully, podcasts you can edit, right?
You're actually able to stitch together a pretty coherent response sometimes from them.
But you know, I think that the biggest thing is as long as you set those expectations.
And I guarantee you, not everyone will read what you sent.
I've had plenty of people show up without headphones, without headsets, that sort of
thing.
But it definitely increases the odds that you're going to have a good recording experience
and then a good podcast.
Now, from your experience in being a guest on podcasts, what would you say is the best
way to maximize the experience of being a guest for your own show?
So you're saying when I'm on it, when I'm a guest on another show, how do I make sure
I get the most out of it?
Yeah.
Or the other way around?
I encourage people to educate and give, give, give when they're a guest on podcasts.
So don't think first about what can I get out of this from a perspective of, you know,
oh, I'm going to get new clients or something like that, right?
Instead, can you educate the audience and make them think, wow, this is someone I want
to learn more from?
And I'll give you an example.
I was listening to a podcast called My First Million.
It's a pretty popular podcast.
And they had a guest on the show and I was listening, I was like, wow, this is great
information.
And at the end of the show, he said, hey, you know, if you like this podcast, what we
talked about today on this show, you'll probably like my podcast.
And then he name dropped his podcast.
And so I went and listened to that show, right?
So he got a new listener out of that.
If he had come on the whole time talking about either his podcast or his course or his book
or something like that, it probably would have turned me off and I wouldn't have listened
to all of it.
So, but it is good to have kind of that messaging for the end of the podcast, right?
What do you want to get across?
A lot of times a podcaster will ask something or there'll be a time that it makes sense
to insert your message.
I mean, earlier in this podcast, you asked me, what is podcastguest.com?
Well, obviously that helps get across what my product or service is right there.
But oftentimes having a free guide or something like that that you can offer.
So for example, on a lot of podcasts, I'll say, hey, I've created this free guide for
how to get booked on podcasts as a guest.
You can go to podcastguest.com slash guide and download that for free, right?
So that also gives kind of a takeaway.
And if people are like, hey, Andrew added a lot of value here.
I liked what he had to say.
I like to learn more.
That's kind of a way for them to take the next step, if you will.
What you don't want to do and what I had one podcastguest.com user reach out to me once
and he said, you know, I've been on 30 podcasts.
I haven't gotten a single client from it.
I go on these podcasts.
I talk about how, you know, what the products and services I provide, yet I still haven't
sold anything.
I'm like, well, that's kind of where you're going wrong, right?
You're going on and you're selling the whole time.
And it's a turnoff.
No one wants to listen to an infomercial.
Right.
Listen to podcasts as infomercials.
I love everything that you said, because we had one of our first guests was Josh Elidge
from Up My Influence.
And everything that you're saying kind of echoes what he was saying about how if you
show up and you're there to deliver value, you're actually going to get a better audience
than you would, like you said, if you're just giving them an infomercial the whole time.
Absolutely.
So they're knock on effects from that too.
You might get invited back on the show or someone's listening and they thought you had
a lot of value.
They'll invite you to their show and you never know who's listening.
That's the crazy thing about podcasting is you literally never know who's listening.
So now that we've covered from the guest perspective, what about from the host perspective?
How can they get the most out of having guests on their show?
Right.
So one of the, I think there are a couple of big benefits from getting a guest on your
show and one is great content.
Right.
So you get someone on who can educate, entertain your audience so that they'll come back and
listen to the next show or subscribe to your podcast.
The other thing is a promotion element here.
And this is the fact that that other person will hopefully help you promote your show
afterward.
And so there are a few things you can do here to make it easier for them.
Right.
I mean, you obviously need to email them after the show goes live.
I'm shocked at how many podcasters neglect to do that.
But email them, say, Hey, look, here's the link to the show.
I'd really appreciate you helping by spread the word on social media or your email list.
Or in the case that the guest told you upfront what they do, kind of reiterate, Hey, ahead
of you coming on, we'll use Josh as an example.
I don't know what he committed to do, but you said that you send this out to your tens
of thousands of Twitter followers and this and that.
Will you please go ahead and do that?
And then you can make it easier.
Right.
Here are some suggested messages or you go ahead and tweet it or Facebook it or Instagram
it and tag that person so they can just retweet it and share it and that sort of thing as
well.
So you're getting a little bit of that person's audience while also educating your audience.
To me, that's kind of the power of having great guests on your show and why a guest
format I think is so good for a lot of people.
And if you've ever tried to do a solo podcast, you know, it's a lot of work because you're
the one talking for 20, 30, however long minutes that your show is.
Whereas the guest is providing the content for you when you have a guest on your show.
Yeah, it definitely saves a lot of time and energy because since they are providing such
amazing content, you can kind of just sit back and coast.
You know, I mean, as the interviewer, you're just giving prompts, right?
You know, I've been on some interviews where the interviewer is talking half the time.
That's not good, right?
And so, but yeah, it's so much easier.
I mean, you do have to prepare, right?
You have to know what you're going to ask.
You have to do some more work ahead of time.
But to me, it's a lot easier than doing solo episodes.
Well, one of the things you said that really stuck out to me is you said to send suggested
messages for whenever you're asking them to promote the show.
That is something that is just so genius and I'm totally going to steal it because I can't
believe I haven't thought of that myself.
Right.
And you know, I mean, the goal is to just make it as easy as possible for them to promote.
Everyone's busy.
You know, they already did the interview.
Now you're telling them it's alive.
Sometimes it could be a month or two later, right?
I know some podcasts are interviewing lots of people and then there's a couple months
delay.
They might have even forgotten what, you know, specifically the podcast was about, right?
So the more you can help them, you know, make it easier so they don't have to say, oh, what
do we talk about specifically on that show, right?
Just make it as easy as possible for them.
Well, since you are an expert in the industry, I have to ask you what you what your feelings
are about how quote unquote saturated the podcasting markets become.
Now, in my opinion, I'm from the blogger world and and you know, blogging wise, there's like
five hundred what million or billion million.
Yeah.
At this point.
So there's less than three million podcasts at this point still, even though it's still
a growing market, there's still not that many out there.
So what do you think about people saying, oh, it's too late.
I shouldn't start a podcast.
I've already missed the boat.
Well, you kind of answered part of that, right?
I mean, look at look at other media, right?
Look at blogs, you know, look at social media accounts, that sort of thing.
I mean, they're just millions and millions of YouTube channels.
Right.
So podcasts are a lot less crowded.
And I'd say even that three million number is really high.
If you look at the number of active podcasts that are published in the last month, it's
probably it's in the hundreds of thousands, not the millions.
Right.
So the number is much smaller.
But what is a challenge for people is that discoverability takes time and podcasting.
Whereas you might write a blog post and maybe it gets bumped up on Reddit or Google really
likes what you have to say.
And a lot of people are searching for it.
You can all of a sudden get a lot of traffic.
Podcasting is a more intimate medium.
Right.
You're asking for someone to listen for 30, 40, 50 minutes and they're not just going
to find you through Google and some of these other search engines, mediums, media, that
sort of thing.
And so it can take time.
And so I tell people that I don't think it's over saturated, but you do need to come in
with the right expectations and the right goals as a podcaster.
And so a lot of people start a podcast thinking they're going to be the next Joe Rogan.
They're going to sell all these ads, that sort of thing.
And the odds of that happening, I think, are very slim.
In fact, I think selling ads is probably the least likely to succeed reason to start a
podcast.
Right.
I think there are other benefits to it that you should consider.
So for example, I know Josh Elitch has a podcast, right?
In each of those podcast interviews, he has the opportunity to talk to someone who will
also learn about him and become part of his network.
And shoot, maybe they'll become a client some other day, some day.
But they might also say when they're talking to someone else who's like, hey, I'm trying
to find someone to help me grow my business and make me into a thought leader.
I might say, oh, well, what about Josh?
Right.
You should talk to this guy, Josh, that I know.
So that's a benefit.
Of course, everyone listening to your show, you're reinforcing your brand here, the RSS.com
brand.
In your case, having people on and educating them about how to get the most out of their
podcast, hopefully keeps them podcasting.
And so that helps them remain a customer for you.
So you're not necessarily getting, maybe you're getting some new customers who listen to this
podcast, but you're also retaining your existing customers by giving them good content and
value add, if you will.
I often tell people that are podcasting companies like yours, like, hey, why don't we do something
where I help your people get guests for their shows because then it's easier for them to
keep podcasting.
Right.
And so some of these relationships you make from these interviews can be really valuable
as well.
Well, and I mean, you never know what kind of a relationship you're going to build with
people.
I mean, some of my best friends have been on the show that I have of my own.
And it's because, you know, once you start talking to them, you start getting to know
them, you find out not only are they really cool people, but you guys have a lot in common.
Right.
I had someone who told me she had found a few guests through podcastguest.com and no,
she had been on a few podcasts through podcastguest.com over a month.
And she said, one of them, she wrote the foreword for their book based on that relationship.
Another one, they became really good friends.
And another one, they ended up having a business relationship.
I forgot who was a client of whom.
And that's just, you know, I mean, she wasn't necessarily selling something.
Right.
But it's just an example of what you can get the value you can get from being a guest and
then vice versa.
I think the biggest thing that we've kind of said here today is don't go on with an
expectation.
Go on trying to give.
Yeah.
I mean, if you go in with that attitude that you're there to give, you're going to be more
successful in the long run.
So I really think that's a takeaway message.
Now, obviously you're spending a lot of time going on podcasts.
You should have an end goal kind of in mind.
Right.
I'm trying to spread the word here.
But if you treat each one as an opportunity to educate or entertain rather than to sell,
you're going to be much more successful.
Yes.
My three pillars, anytime I'm a guest on a podcast is educate, inspire and connect.
I love it.
Well, I got to ask you, where can we find you online?
I know we already talked about podcastguest.com, but where else can we find you?
Right.
So podcastguest.com is kind of my main thing.
You can find me on LinkedIn and social media.
And I also created a page specifically for rss.com users where we can feature your show
in our newsletter and you can kind of jump to the top of the queue.
And to do that, it's podcastguest.com slash rss dash com.
So r slash rss dash com.
Awesome.
Yeah, there's a form you can fill out there and then it alerts me and I'll put you at
the top of the queue.
We do require that by the time we feature your podcast, that you have at least 10 episodes
and you're in Apple podcasts at that point.
But hopefully, even if you aren't there, you can go ahead and submit it.
And then when you get there, we can feature you.
But yeah, that's a great way to connect.
Well, I've got two more questions for you and then I'll let you go.
The first one I got to ask you is, okay, as a podcaster yourself, what is something that
we haven't talked about in this episode yet that you really want to tell podcasters that
are listening?
Well, I would like to make my pitch for getting good cover art for your show.
And it's a pet peeve of mine because we put together these lists of podcasts every week,
twice a week, and a lot of them have really bad cover art.
And it's kind of like writing a book and then slapping a bag cover on it.
You want something that stands out and looks professional or at least looks in tune with
your podcast.
And I see so many bad cover art.
And when you think about people scrolling through a phone looking for podcasts, they're
going to skip over ones that don't stand out to them.
So spend a little bit of money.
If you can, avoid the fibers of the world for that type of thing and hire someone who
specifically works on podcast cover art.
That's actually really solid advice.
Now, I'm curious to you, what is good cover art?
Like I know you said it needs to stand out, but what does that mean to you?
Right.
So you don't want to have small lettering.
You don't want to have too many words, right?
Because they're not going to see it on this little square as they're going down.
And you want the colors to kind of stand out.
Sometimes I'll get one that just has a mostly white background, which if you're not filling
up all that, if you've got a little something in the middle, then it just looks like this
little thing rather than a big one.
So the colors should ideally pop a little bit, right?
So in some cases, like rss.com is a great logo that can be the basis for that.
It pops out color wise.
For my show, I've used, it's jennyhdesign.com.
She does a wonderful job.
It is, I think it's 200 and something dollars.
So it is a little bit more expensive.
And I always tell people, get out there, start your show.
If you don't have the money to spend now, but then that would be one of the first things
that upgrade if you don't have a chance to get a good one to begin with.
That's good.
I like that so much because one thing that cracks me up is I sometimes see users will,
not even just with RSS, but with other podcast hosts as well, that their cover art is literally
the logo of the podcast host they chose.
And I'm just like, come on, you got to give us something more.
Yeah.
I've seen that the worst I've seen is someone who drew on a piece of paper, they drew something
on here and then they took a picture of it with a camera and that was their cover art.
That's actually pretty funny.
I can't help that.
That's easy to say it was not great cover art.
Yeah.
And true story, as bad as it is, people do judge your podcast by your cover art.
Absolutely.
And think of it kind of like a book cover, both in its utility and in design.
If you do go to a bookstore still, if you've stepped in a book, you see the shelf or at
the airport, the shelves, they all have these bold titles that grab your attention or a
graphic that grabs your attention and that's what you want to do.
Absolutely.
All right.
Last question.
I ask this to everyone before I let them go.
What's one question I didn't ask you really wish I had?
I wish you would have asked.
This is another thing kind of in the same same area, but that is which type of microphone
to get.
And the key here is you don't spend hundreds of dollars, but buy a dynamic microphone as
opposed to a condenser because what it's doing here is it's capturing just your voice.
It's not capturing everything around you.
And my dog was barking earlier on this episode.
You could hardly hear her in part because I'm using a dynamic mic that's not picking
up everything around me.
Ah, such solid advice.
And I kind of have a little bit of a mic envy right now, so I'm going to have to go get
myself a new one.
Well, Andrew, I just want to say thank you so much.
Everyone needs to check out podcastguest.com.
We're going to leave all the links to this amazing stuff he's been sharing down in the
show notes.
And I guess that's it for now.
And I just thank you again.
Really, this has been awesome.
My pleasure.
Thanks for having me on the show.
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