1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:17,800 Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com. 2 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,400 On today's episode, we're talking to Steve Ulshur, who's the founder and creator of 3 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,080 Podcast Magazine. 4 00:00:23,080 --> 00:00:24,080 Enjoy the show. 5 00:00:24,080 --> 00:00:25,480 All right, well, Steve, welcome to the show. 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,120 I'm so excited you could be here. 7 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,040 Could you do us a favor and tell us what it is you do? 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,880 It depends on the day. 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,320 For today, we're talking about Podcast Magazine. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:41,160 So I am the founder and editor-in-chief of Podcast Magazine and a podcaster since, ooh, 11 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:45,560 I think I did my first episode in 2009. 12 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:46,560 Wow. 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,840 So you're like an OG in the podcasting world. 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:51,840 Now I'm just the O. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:52,840 That's awesome. 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:58,200 So when did the idea for Podcast Magazine come to you? 17 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,840 This was like around, what year was that? 18 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,640 It was October 2019. 19 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,760 And actually I was, I remember very specifically because there was one of those sort of moments 20 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,240 in time, you know, where you kind of hit that crossroads on an idea. 21 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,440 You're like, did I do this or not do this? 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:22,600 I was actually at an event for aspiring influencers, I guess is the best way to put it. 23 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:28,880 And the guy who was doing the event, somebody I've had a lot of respect for for a lot of 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,800 years, he actually spoke on my stage back in 2015, as he was at Brendan Richard. 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:40,000 And he just did a lot of stuff in sort of the online marketing world and personal branding 26 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,000 world and all that fun stuff. 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,680 And so we had this event called Influencer. 28 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,480 And for a couple of years, he had been talking about launching a magazine called Influencer. 29 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,880 And I thought it was a really good idea. 30 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,720 You know, he'd have a magazine about influencers. 31 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,200 And of course, he'd be able to sit down with people who are doing pretty cool things from 32 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,080 an influencer standpoint. 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:05,520 And then, well, hopefully they would share that feature, right, with their audience. 34 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,560 And his magazine would grow, his mailing list would grow. 35 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,280 And it's just like, you know, it's really a smart idea. 36 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:16,000 But he hadn't done anything with it by the time we got to that event. 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,000 But there was a sign for it. 38 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,640 And I remember Influencer magazine coming soon, it just kind of landed on me again, 39 00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:22,640 October 2019. 40 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:31,840 I was just like, why isn't there like a podcast magazine, something about our space, right? 41 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,120 And I looked online, of course, you know, what you do, you're sitting there and you 42 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,120 get an idea. 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:42,160 And of course, you go online and podcastmagazine.com, nothing, Google search, looked like a couple 44 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,120 people did a couple of things trying to do some things, but there wasn't anything active. 45 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,400 And I was like, hmm, well, let me see what I can do here. 46 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:56,280 In, you know, this short little period of time of sitting in my chair and on a break 47 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:57,280 in between sessions. 48 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,920 And so I look at podcastmagazine.com, it wasn't available. 49 00:03:01,920 --> 00:03:04,760 But I was able to track it down and I was able to see that I could buy it for about 50 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:05,760 2500 bucks. 51 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:12,480 So I was like, well, you know, maybe I'll buy the domain, put a team together, maybe 52 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,000 I'll write like a maybe 30, 40 page or two or something like that. 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:21,160 And you know, maybe it'll be around 10 grand in or so and it'll be like a $10,000 experiment 54 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,000 to see if this thing has legs or not. 55 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,920 And I thought it would make sense, you know, just like Rolling Stone dominates the world 56 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:32,440 of music and Vanity Fair dominates the world of entertainment and Sports Illustrated dominates 57 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:33,440 the world of sports. 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,460 I just really felt like it would make sense for our industry to have a magazine. 59 00:03:38,460 --> 00:03:42,460 And so I said, you know what, fine, I'll buy the domain, I'll give it a whirl. 60 00:03:42,460 --> 00:03:51,080 And pretty much every month, give or take, we've been over 100 pages with every issue 61 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:56,720 publishing monthly since our first issue came out in February of 2020. 62 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:01,640 So we were basically from my sitting in the chair with an idea to launching our first 63 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,360 issue in roughly 100 days. 64 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:04,360 Wow. 65 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,840 I mean, that seems like so fast to go from idea to actually having a product out there. 66 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,160 What was the process like of like actually making it happen, turning it from an idea 67 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:15,240 into a published magazine? 68 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:21,720 Yeah, the first idea that came to mind, of course, is well, we need a mock for the cover, 69 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:22,720 right? 70 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,620 What would this cover look like? 71 00:04:24,620 --> 00:04:30,160 And so I went on 99designs and we had a contest and had some people try to put together some 72 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,000 covers. 73 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:37,760 And so that was really step one is let's try to take it out of our heads and into just 74 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:46,920 the real reality, the realm of someone actually being able to look at something, touch something. 75 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:51,040 And so that was the first step was let's try to figure out what a mock of this thing might 76 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,120 look like. 77 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:58,520 And so after I started posting around this idea, people started reaching out and just 78 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,880 saying, hey, are you going to need writers for this? 79 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,920 What's your plan? 80 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,000 And so before we knew it, we had a pretty good design in place. 81 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,440 I had already started to line up some folks who wanted to write for the magazine. 82 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,560 And then somebody came up to me at one point and just said, hey, you know, I'm a podcaster 83 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,560 who is in the religion and spirituality space. 84 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,320 Do you have anybody who's covering that particular category? 85 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:28,120 You know, it's like, no, I mean, we haven't even thought about categories or anything 86 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,880 of that nature. 87 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,960 And then we made the decision to say, look, why don't we have a category director who 88 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,600 is responsible for each of the top level categories, right? 89 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:45,880 Like society and culture, health and fitness, fiction, news, sports, right? 90 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,280 All the top level categories for Apple. 91 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:57,240 And before long, we had 23 people who became influencers in their own right by really being 92 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,720 able to represent and own that category for us. 93 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:07,480 And so those were the first steps of getting the writers, getting the mock and then eventually 94 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,120 putting it together and having the first design. 95 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,120 That's amazing. 96 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,600 I mean, it just seems like you just pulled an idea out of thin air and then boom, there 97 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:15,600 it was. 98 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:20,680 But I think it's fascinating that you got like the whisper of the idea from from Brenda 99 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,920 Bouchard because I actually do follow him and he's like a really prolific marketer. 100 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,440 I mean, I read his book Golden Ticket and I thought it was fascinating. 101 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,400 He actually put a golden ticket in the book. 102 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:37,600 But so tell me a little bit about like how you chose your first people to be on the cover. 103 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,200 Did you have people clamoring for it? 104 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,840 Was there like, you know, a fight for it or you just kind of knew who you wanted to put 105 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:43,840 on there? 106 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:48,360 I wouldn't say that there was a fight for it necessarily because nobody knew that we 107 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:49,360 existed. 108 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:50,360 OK. 109 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:57,960 But as we started to get the word out and I started talking to my team, it just it seemed 110 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:05,600 to me like, you know, we need to do something that was a little bit unexpected. 111 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:11,120 I don't want to just put, you know, and by the way, I actually wanted to sit down with 112 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:16,600 these people like I didn't want this to be a magazine where we we featured podcasters 113 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,040 that we didn't actually sit down and interview. 114 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,080 So like if you did if you did a piece about podcast magazine and we never talked, you 115 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,320 know, that wouldn't be quite the same as they're doing what we're doing, you know, right here, 116 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:28,320 right now. 117 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:29,320 Right. 118 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:30,320 So. 119 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,560 So as I started thinking about some of the people and some of the shows that I've enjoyed 120 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:39,920 over the years and people that have had influence on me, I just kind of kept coming back to 121 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:45,080 Glenn Washington and he does Spooked and he does Snap Judgment. 122 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,920 And I just always really liked his style and his demeanor and just kind of came across as, 123 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,280 you know, kind of cool dude you want to hang out with. 124 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:58,000 And he wasn't like this hugely popular podcaster, but 250 million downloads at the time that 125 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,000 I interviewed him. 126 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,000 So wow. 127 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:07,320 And so we just made the decision, you know, let's let's put Glenn on the cover of our 128 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:08,320 inaugural issue. 129 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,360 And he was he was thrilled to do it. 130 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:12,360 That's awesome. 131 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,400 And you've had some pretty amazing people on your cover as well. 132 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,560 Like, I mean, you've had John Lee Dumas, you had Bethany Frankel and didn't you have Jillian 133 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,160 Michaels as well? 134 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,600 Jillian Michaels. 135 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:27,400 I think, you know, just in terms of your popularity or notoriety, I think Paris Hilton is probably 136 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:28,920 the biggest coup for us. 137 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,880 Well, what's fascinating to me is that some people don't even realize that these celebrities 138 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,240 have podcasts and some of them are actually really good. 139 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:37,240 Yeah. 140 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:38,240 Yeah. 141 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:44,200 What what Paris, you know, has done, obviously, she's done a lot of stuff in the podcast space, 142 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,960 but it was it was specific to her. 143 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:54,920 She had a show where she was basically revealing a lot of the atrocities that take place in 144 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:55,920 some of these boarding schools. 145 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:02,360 You know, it's kind of the rich, insane, this dirty little secret. 146 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,080 Yeah. 147 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:11,080 And so it was it was a subject that was very near and dear to her heart because she actually 148 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,880 was a victim of some of that abuse. 149 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,240 And so Trapped in Treatment was was was her show there that she was releasing. 150 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:24,920 So it was really good timing because they wanted more publicity for for the show. 151 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:30,320 And, you know, it wasn't just like this basic kind of interview where, you know, tell me 152 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,840 about the latest trends in being an influencer. 153 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:40,000 Like there was an actual cause that she was very vocal about and very supportive of. 154 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:45,400 And so it gave us an opportunity to support that mission, which we were happy to do. 155 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:51,600 What's amazing about podcasting and her story, I watched her documentary and it's just horrible. 156 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,920 Some of the stuff that not just celebrities, but any of these kids that were in these treatments, 157 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:57,760 like what they went through. 158 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:03,380 What's amazing to me is that podcasting gives people such a platform to to get the word 159 00:10:03,380 --> 00:10:05,040 out about important messages. 160 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,960 And I think that's one of the cool things about your your magazine is that you have 161 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,080 covered the gamut, I mean, of of everything. 162 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:14,080 What would you say? 163 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,520 I didn't ask you this beforehand, but I'm kind of curious. 164 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,440 Is there anybody that you have spoken to or that you've written about or covered or whatever 165 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,080 that just really sticks out in your mind? 166 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,920 It's like, I'm so glad I started this magazine. 167 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:26,920 Yeah. 168 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:32,280 You know, part of part of our goal, you know, really going in was to not only, of course, 169 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,880 cover the shows that the world. 170 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:43,240 And, you know, the people who host those shows in the world knows, but to really give a voice 171 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,640 to those that maybe you haven't heard of, but really should consider listening to. 172 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:49,640 Yeah. 173 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:56,240 And so every month we have multiple under the radar features. 174 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,560 Every month we have multiple off the charts selections. 175 00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:04,720 And then every month we have our our hot 50. 176 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,560 Basically it's like if you think about like, you know, Billboard and sort of the top 40 177 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:15,920 shows or whatever, it's the podcast magazine Hot 50, which are shows that aren't the list 178 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:23,680 one through 50 isn't based on downloads, isn't based on subscribes, isn't based on influencer 179 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,680 count. 180 00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:28,480 Like it's not based on anything other than and fan voting. 181 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,040 And so that, you know, between those three pieces of the puzzle under the radar off the 182 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:41,920 charts and the podcast magazine, Hot 50 chart, you know, it's really exposed folks to shows 183 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,480 that normally they wouldn't have an opportunity to even know about. 184 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,480 Yeah. 185 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,800 And so and a lot of the features, you know, a lot of the features on the monthly where 186 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,440 we go more in depth with folks and the actual written pieces there, you know, the more in 187 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,160 depth written pieces. 188 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,800 So many of those shows I just I just didn't even know existed. 189 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:08,480 I mean, shows about autism, you know, shows about baking show. 190 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,440 I mean, like you name it. 191 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:11,440 We covered it. 192 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:17,720 And it's just it's so incredible to me to see that there are so many amazing shows out 193 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:24,320 there and for us to be able to shed some light on those shows. 194 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,560 And even like you said, I mean, some of the bigger influencers, a lot of people don't 195 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:30,040 even realize they have podcasts. 196 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:31,040 Yeah. 197 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:36,360 But to be able to shed some light on what's going on here in the space, it's pretty cool. 198 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:41,840 Well, with these Hot 50 shows, is it all nomination based or do you guys like just put out a list? 199 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,200 How does it how does that work? 200 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,760 Yeah, it's strictly fan voting. 201 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:51,960 And you know, I mean, it's it's what gives everybody a chance to get onto the list. 202 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:52,960 Right. 203 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,880 So we have podcastmagazine.com slash hot 50. 204 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,680 And we encourage podcasters, of course, to encourage their audience to vote for their 205 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:05,240 shows if they want to see them on the chart. 206 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,760 And and a lot of you know, a lot of people do. 207 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:08,760 That's awesome. 208 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,760 But what I also love is that you don't just have the hot 50. 209 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,080 You also have pretty inexpensive advertising for podcasters. 210 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:16,560 Tell me a little bit about that. 211 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:22,920 Yeah, we between you know, our social on our web and our digital edition of the magazine, 212 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,520 the print edition of the magazine. 213 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,800 We're reaching well over 50,000 folks every single month. 214 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,480 And yeah, I mean, there are ways to get advertising and exposure in the magazine for as little 215 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:36,880 as 250 bucks. 216 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:43,320 And even nowadays, we've tried to keep it pretty accessible for folks who want really 217 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,760 nice, nice visibility in the magazine. 218 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,120 You know, our full page at the moment is I think it's twenty five hundred dollars. 219 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:58,480 So yeah, it's it's tough to find a more competitive outlet really to reach people who obviously 220 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:05,240 have their hand up and love podcasts and and those sort of numbers for for such a reasonable 221 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:06,240 cost. 222 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,240 Yeah, that's awesome. 223 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:08,240 That's awesome. 224 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,720 Now, other than the advertising and the hot 50, is there any way that someone could get 225 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:12,720 featured in the magazine? 226 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:13,720 I'm sure. 227 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:14,720 Yeah. 228 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,240 I mean, we're always looking for awesome shows and people to profile. 229 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:25,040 So the best way to make that happen is just simply reach out for the appropriate category 230 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:26,160 director. 231 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,640 So if you've got a society and culture show, reach out for the society and culture category 232 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:31,640 director. 233 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:36,040 If you've got a business show, reach out for the business category director. 234 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:41,200 And you know, or just email Kelly at podcast magazine dot com. 235 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,800 And she can point you in the right direction, too. 236 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,760 To you, though, what is it that makes something newsworthy? 237 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:50,320 What makes it worth it to even be considered for a feature? 238 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:55,720 Yeah, you know, it's really more about the person and the mission than it is about anything 239 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,720 else. 240 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:57,720 Right. 241 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Because, you know, like, I'm not I'm not saying that there are folks out there who are using 242 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,440 podcasting as a money grab. 243 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:08,040 But you know, I mean, you can kind of get a sense of when someone really just cares 244 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,160 about a particular topic. 245 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:16,240 Like, we would much rather sit down with someone who has a relatively small audience, but is 246 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:21,760 just crazy passionate about what it is that they're that they're doing than an influencer 247 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,400 who's just simply doing a show because that's what you're supposed to do. 248 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,440 And, you know, just kind of schedule it and just really doesn't doesn't care. 249 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,400 Honestly, that's so refreshing to hear. 250 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,400 Yeah. 251 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,840 And, you know, looking, we're pretty selective, you know? 252 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,000 I mean, if you can look at the people that we feature on the cover. 253 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,520 Yeah, you know, we we obviously want to it's it's the game you play in media. 254 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:47,560 You know, there are there are certainly, you know, some rules you have to kind of play 255 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,680 by and, you know, having Paris Hilton on the cover just carries certain cache. 256 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,080 It carries certain weight. 257 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,080 Right. 258 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,960 I mean, it's just part of just part of that game. 259 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:04,920 But, you know, look, the but the reality is when you start thinking about, you know, 260 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:09,400 who can we feature and what, you know, what opportunities are there? 261 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:18,280 I mean, we've featured folks that, you know, don't necessarily have these huge reputations, 262 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,760 but are doing some some pretty cool things, you know, in their respective space. 263 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:31,520 So so just again, if the passion is there, if the fire is there and if this is something 264 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,560 that, you know, we we feel like we can really help someone get the word out about something 265 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,880 cool that they're up to, we'll certainly do our best. 266 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:40,880 I love that. 267 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:41,880 I absolutely love that. 268 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,200 Well, what do you see for the future of podcast magazine? 269 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,960 It's an interesting question, you know, because right now we're kind of between a little bit 270 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,840 of a rock and a hard place because the publishing industry, I mean, it's a it's a tough industry, 271 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,120 right, especially when most people are zinging and we decided to zag, you know, how many 272 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:02,400 people release a magazine when everything else is who does magazines right anymore, 273 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,240 which I want to end a super cool and, you know, we're happy to kind of carve our own 274 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,960 path and whatnot. 275 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:15,040 But the reality is, if we're going in this direction, which we are, we probably need 276 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:20,400 to have more of a physical presence because right now we, you know, the majority of our 277 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,160 subscribers are digital. 278 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:28,720 And so we need to push more physical and the way that it's designed, the way that it looks, 279 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,360 you know, we really obviously were biased, but we really think it stands up nicely against 280 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,680 a lot of the publications that are on the rack. 281 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:41,360 So, you know, maybe a partnership with Pond & Nast or partnership with someone who can 282 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:46,960 help us get more distribution and maybe a strategic investment for someone who sees 283 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,920 the vision of what we're doing here and understands that the podcast industry offers a lot of 284 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,920 opportunity. 285 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:58,560 So, yeah, we're maybe open to a strategic investment or even an outright sale, you know, 286 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,440 to someone that this would be complimentary to. 287 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,320 But we just really want to see this thing live and get some wings. 288 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,240 So we're open to a number of different options. 289 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,680 So, you know, reality is it's been a labor of love. 290 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,640 It's been a pretty huge investment for us. 291 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,480 We certainly haven't been able to get into the black yet, still operating in the red. 292 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:26,920 So we're open, you know, we're open to ideas and structures. 293 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,600 And I welcome folks to reach out if this is not, you know, the way you want to play in. 294 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:37,200 Well, from a business standpoint, I mean, how does it feel to still be in the red and 295 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:38,360 working towards the black? 296 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:42,440 I mean, is it still just an experiment for you or is it becoming a passion project? 297 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:43,720 I'm very curious about that. 298 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:44,720 Oh, yeah. 299 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,520 No, it's not being an experiment about two and a half years ago. 300 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:49,520 Okay. 301 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,040 At this point, it is purely a passion project. 302 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,920 And you know, passion projects can only take, can only go so long. 303 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:56,920 Yeah. 304 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,200 And still it's like, all right, we got to be smart about this from a business decision, 305 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,600 you know, from a business standpoint. 306 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:03,600 Yeah. 307 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,480 So, yeah, we've got to start operating in the black. 308 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,520 We got to turn the corner on that. 309 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:15,640 Otherwise, you know, as much as we'd like to carry the torch here for the industry, you 310 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,280 know, it's, I'll put it to this, but the industry needs us. 311 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,280 Yeah. 312 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:25,840 And so we need the Spotify's and the A-Casts and the I-Hearts and, you know, the Cast, 313 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,720 the Crooked Media's and the Wanderies and the Crooked Media's. 314 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,160 And you know, we need these people to support what we're doing. 315 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,080 And frankly, we can't break down those doors right now. 316 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,920 And it's disappointing because they know we exist and they're more than happy for us to 317 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,120 feature their podcast, but they're not throwing any money at us. 318 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:45,400 And so that's a hurdle we have to have to surmount there. 319 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,600 But you know, at the end of the day, I think the industry needs us to survive. 320 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:55,640 I think it's important that the magazine exists because like you said, it was the first two 321 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,320 actually feature our space. 322 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,080 You know, Podcast Movement was the first like podcast only huge conference and yours is 323 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,280 the first podcast only magazine. 324 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:05,800 So I completely agree with you. 325 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:06,800 Yeah. 326 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,880 I mean, it really legitimizes the industry. 327 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,560 When I first started preaching about launching your own podcast and I've been in this space, 328 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,400 as I said, you know, for a long time. 329 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,480 But when I started preaching about launching podcasts, being a guest on shows, that sort 330 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:30,040 of thing back in 2017, about 425,000 shows that would show up on the general feed and 331 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,560 maybe 25% of those were still active and had 10 or more episodes. 332 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,080 So now, you know, numbers well over 2.4 million, right? 333 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,080 Yeah. 334 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,080 So you take the same 25%. 335 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:47,800 You know, there's still some pretty substantial growth 6X since I started preaching this. 336 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:55,600 And so, you know, how in my way of thinking for this industry to grow, you need to have 337 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,160 a publication like ours that really puts that stamp of approval on it, so to speak, and 338 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:01,760 legitimizes what we're all doing here. 339 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,740 Otherwise, it's just like this sort of closeted little hobby industry. 340 00:21:05,740 --> 00:21:10,240 And we've got to stop being a hobby and really start being a professional business and certainly 341 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,960 in terms of the industry itself. 342 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:12,960 Absolutely. 343 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,480 I can't disagree with any of that. 344 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:17,880 So what do you see for the future of podcasting? 345 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,720 I mean, we've already covered the future of the magazine, but what do you see for the 346 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,520 platform itself, the medium itself? 347 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:28,440 Yeah, I think you're going to continue to see growth, certainly from an ad standpoint, 348 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:34,880 although I will say that people are going to have to get a lot smarter and more strategic 349 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,960 in terms of their approach to advertising as a show host, as a show owner, because you're 350 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,680 starting to already see a lot of ad burn. 351 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,520 Most folks are kicking back pretty hard on that. 352 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,320 So I think the advertising rates will go up pretty substantially, especially on the larger 353 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:57,360 shows because the number of ads that run will have to be reduced pretty significantly. 354 00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,360 You just can't keep the run rate that we've been at. 355 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:03,080 There's just too much resistance there. 356 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:08,140 And so to that end, I think you'll continue to see the growth of ad-free opportunities. 357 00:22:08,140 --> 00:22:15,400 So networks that charge a premium for ad-free access to their shows. 358 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,920 No doubt that you'll continue to see subscribers growing in that paid weight in the same way 359 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:26,840 that Disney, you know, just, I mean, there are over 230 million subscribers now just 360 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,840 past Netflix. 361 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,680 We'll get a little date stamp on this interview. 362 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,920 But they were smart about it because they understand the consumer is willing to pay 363 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:40,480 a little bit more to have access to the content that they want. 364 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:46,560 And ad-free content is something that people clearly want. 365 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:52,480 But the third thing I would say here is not great, which is that you're going to see the 366 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,560 rich get richer and the poor disappear. 367 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,640 And there just will be very little middle ground. 368 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:05,120 And so the bigger shows will continue to get bigger and the smaller shows will ultimately 369 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:09,200 disappear because it's not sustainable unless you just absolutely love what you're doing 370 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,520 and you're doing it absolutely because you don't care about the money. 371 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:19,360 You know, you'll have some longevity, but your growth is going to be pretty minimal. 372 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:24,520 So it's scary in terms of what's happening there. 373 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:32,280 But to break into the charts, the Apple charts, not our chart, you know, because vote and 374 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,000 you can get on our chart there. 375 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:42,800 But to break into a top 10 of Apple, top 100 of Apple, almost impossible. 376 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,040 Yeah. 377 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,280 Especially with the big names taking over the charts in that respect. 378 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,680 So what would your advice be for the little guy that's trying to fight to keep their podcast 379 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:54,680 going? 380 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:59,760 I mean, the main message would be you have to figure out, number one, why you're doing 381 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:00,760 it. 382 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,800 You have to be really clear on why you have this podcast and what your intention is for 383 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:06,800 it. 384 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:12,760 Because if it's to replace your current income and to, you know, quit your day job or that 385 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,720 sort of thing, it's entirely possible. 386 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:22,440 But you're going to have to leverage the audience that you're building in ways outside of CPM. 387 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,080 You're just not going to get there on a cost per thousand basis. 388 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,600 You're just not going to make enough money. 389 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,200 So really begin to think about, let's just say, complimentary products, programs and 390 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:37,080 services that you can offer in conjunction with the show. 391 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:38,320 And I'm not talking about coffee mugs. 392 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,120 Coffee mugs aren't going to do it. 393 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:41,120 Yeah. 394 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:46,160 You know, you're going to have to come up with some higher value items that the audience 395 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,600 looks at and goes, oh, yeah, I need that. 396 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,000 Because that's what's going to keep the lights on. 397 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,600 That's what's going to actually put some money in your pocket. 398 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:59,400 And ultimately, you have to think about it not in terms of your podcast, the business, 399 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:05,200 because again, for most shows, you're not going to get to ten thousand downloads a month. 400 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,200 Yeah. 401 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,360 Well, that's just that's just the harsh reality. 402 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,080 Most shows won't get there. 403 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:17,000 And so it doesn't mean, however, that you can't leverage the business of podcasting. 404 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,000 Right. 405 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:23,280 So if you get out of the mindset of looking at your podcast as a business and really think 406 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,760 more about it holistically in terms of the business of podcasting and what that includes 407 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:34,400 and what that entails, then you may stand a better chance of having some sustainability 408 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,400 here. 409 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,880 Do you almost mean like making your podcast like complementary to your business that you 410 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,840 already own, like you using it as a marketing arm? 411 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:42,960 Potentially. 412 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,400 That is one way to do it, depending. 413 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:51,720 So the other thing is, you know, if you just have a lunch, lunch, if you just have to sell 414 00:25:51,720 --> 00:26:02,120 them, tell them hungry, if you just have an interest in launching a show about, I don't 415 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:07,760 know, maybe you're maybe you're a DJ and you just love DJing and you just love music and 416 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:14,880 that sort of thing, then maybe what you can do is you can get tickets to to an event and, 417 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,000 you know, maybe you can give those tickets away in exchange for something at the event. 418 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,020 So you get visibility at that event or maybe you can get discounted tickets for something 419 00:26:24,020 --> 00:26:25,840 and then you can make a margin on that. 420 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:31,880 Maybe you can teach people how to DJ or maybe you can get discounts on, you know, on songs 421 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,280 from certain producers and then resell those. 422 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:42,640 You know, just think about products, programs, services and, you know, ultimately the best 423 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,200 thing to do is to get people in a room. 424 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:50,720 So if you had a podcast about DJing and you love a particular genre of music, put together 425 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,480 an event, you know, and get other people who love that sort of music and get everybody 426 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,080 together and get everybody promoting this thing and get people there to the event, because 427 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:03,680 then you can get ticket sales, you can get sponsors, you know, you can potentially build 428 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:10,120 your mailing list and just give you an opportunity to really grow, you know, grow that business. 429 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:15,040 But you have to think holistically about it and you got to get pretty creative. 430 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:23,320 But there just aren't a lot of options in the ad space right now for really making enough 431 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,240 money to make a difference for most shows. 432 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,240 So you're going to have to find other revenue sources. 433 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,120 I love that you're being so raw and real rather than just like, you know, pushing the old 434 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:36,960 adage of, well, just put out more content, just put out more content. 435 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,240 Instead, you're giving real advice that's actually tangible that you could chew on. 436 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,240 Yeah. 437 00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,360 And you know, look, I'm not against launching a podcast. 438 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,000 I think you should consider launching a podcast. 439 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,160 I think everybody should consider launching a podcast. 440 00:27:53,160 --> 00:28:00,920 But you know, at the same token, we don't need another person interviewing X, Y, Z, 441 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,920 you know, business person. 442 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,120 Like you're just, you're not going to compete with the, with the shows that are already 443 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:10,800 sitting down with, you know, with business people or something of that nature. 444 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,640 But you know, if you're an accountant and you have, you know, these, these particular 445 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:21,840 strategies for saving people, you know, a lot of money on their taxes, then make your 446 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:28,640 show all about that, you know, and just every week have a tax saving strategy that you introduce, 447 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:34,020 bring on experts who help, you know, share their strategies around how you can save money 448 00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:37,360 on your taxes and just go super knit. 449 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:45,880 And then ultimately a show like that can drive, I would think some pretty good leads for you 450 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,920 in terms of folks who may want to use your services that you actually help them save 451 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:51,520 money on their taxes. 452 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:57,200 So, you know, again, just really depends on why you're doing the show, what business you're 453 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,880 in and is it a passion project or is this something you actually want to make money 454 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,960 from? 455 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,160 That's good advice. 456 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,160 This was so good. 457 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,700 I mean, everything that you've said, it's just, it's brilliant. 458 00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:09,120 And I can't remember the name of the show. 459 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,080 I'll have to look it up and put it in the show notes. 460 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,680 But at podcast movement evolutions, there was a group of doctors and they had like a 461 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,160 doctor podcast and their podcast was literally just questions that most people are afraid 462 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,160 to ask their doctor. 463 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,560 And so it really ties into just what you were just talking about, about if you go super 464 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,520 niche and you actually help people, then it's more than just, oh, I'm starting a podcast 465 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,120 because I want to be internet famous. 466 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,520 Yeah, for sure. 467 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:40,760 And that's, and I guarantee you that's a perfect example of a show where they're actually driving 468 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,520 people to their practice as well from that show. 469 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,640 You know, there's just, there's, again, I can make the argument that everyone should 470 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,400 have a show and I can make the argument that absolutely no one should launch a show. 471 00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:01,760 So it's, you know, you can say, you could have been a lawyer, but it's been a lawyer. 472 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,080 So are you still doing a lot of podcasting on your own or are you, are your hands full 473 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:06,880 with the magazine? 474 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,880 You know, it's funny. 475 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,920 I did my, my show where you mentioned radio for a number of years. 476 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,400 And then, I don't know, about a year ago or so, I just decided I had nothing left to say. 477 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,800 So I just stopped talking. 478 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,560 Although clearly I have something to say, but I haven't, I haven't done an episode of 479 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,320 where you mentioned radio in probably about a year now. 480 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:38,120 And then my other show, which was called Beyond 8 Figures, actually sold that in 2020. 481 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,520 So that was, that was kind of cool to sell, sell the show. 482 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,440 And that's, that's a whole other opportunity for revenue, but that's probably a conversation 483 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,440 for another day. 484 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:47,440 Wow. 485 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,120 I mean, I can't wait to see what else you come up with. 486 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,480 Because I mean, I'm sure that with the innovations that you've come up with so far for the magazine 487 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,680 that we're, we're going to see a lot more come from it. 488 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,280 Well, before I let you go, I have to ask you the one question I ask everyone before I let 489 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,440 them off my interview platform. 490 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:08,400 And that is what's one question I didn't ask that you wish I had. 491 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,880 Where can people get a free lifetime subscription to the magazine? 492 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:12,880 Great. 493 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,320 Podcastmagazine.com slash free. 494 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,120 That's the, that's the private backdoor link. 495 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:20,120 That's fantastic. 496 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:21,940 Well, we will definitely leave that in the show notes. 497 00:31:21,940 --> 00:31:24,520 And where else can people find you online? 498 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,720 Just Google Steve Ulster and a whole bunch of stuff that you probably shouldn't see will 499 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,280 come up and then let me know what was your favorite. 500 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,280 That's awesome. 501 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,040 Well, thank you so much for being on the show today. 502 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,400 I really appreciate it. 503 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:36,400 Sounds good. 504 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,400 Thanks for having me. 505 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:42,960 Well, my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips and ideas shared in this 506 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:43,960 episode. 507 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,160 To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to RSS.com backslash 508 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,160 blog. 509 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,480 And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with 510 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,520 your first episode on us. 511 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:21,320 Thanks for tuning in.