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So let's say someone's just starting out there, they're trying to get all these systems in place.

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What tools would you recommend that they start with so that they can actually create these systems

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and processes? Yeah, so that's the thing with systems is that I know a lot of people don't

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love them and they think that they're going to be grueling and boring and like tedious and all of

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these things. Systems are incredibly simple at the base ground level. Like most of our systems

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are built on a Google spreadsheet or in a task management system like a sauna or base camp.

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It's simply creating a checklist of steps that you go through every time you do that thing

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so that you're not relying on using mental bandwidth to like backtrack. Am I forgetting

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something? Oh my gosh, I didn't hit record. Happened to me more than once. I know it's

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happened to other people who are tuning in. And so having that checklist and the set of steps

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that you're going to follow is absolutely critical. And a huge part of that system again,

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goes back to actually having that schedule in place. So on your calendar, booking the time,

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okay, these are the two hours where I'm going to prepare my next four episodes. And then maybe one

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day you have a two hour block where you're recording those episodes. And then maybe one

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day you have a two hour block where you're editing and uploading those episodes. And once you get into

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a rhythm with a system like that, that again is just like a Google spreadsheet or a checklist

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or a Google doc, or I use a sauna a lot. So I put a lot of my systems in a sauna so that I could just

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check done, done, done. And then actually scheduling the time in your calendar. And that's really

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all there is to it. You just have to like do it that one time and then it serves you so big moving

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forward. Yeah. I think that templates and systems like that are so important for me personally. I

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use Google spreadsheets and I use Trello. So Trello and a sauna are pretty similar, aren't they?

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Oh yeah. Yeah. So I'm curious though, was it a lot of like trial and error to figure out what should

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be on your checklist? Totally. Because sometimes you're creating a checklist when you're not

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actually doing the thing. So in that case, you're kind of like, okay, if I were about to record an

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episode, what are the steps that I would take? In which case, if you are doing that, because I

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highly recommend that whenever you have 15 minutes, so you can sit down and focus to ask yourself

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things like this, what are the steps that I take every time I record an episode? Same goes for

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editing, same goes for uploading, same goes for your show notes page, same goes for finding guests

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for your podcast. All of these are like little micro systems within your production system

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that all need to happen in order for it to work. So when you sit down and you think about what are

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the steps that I take every time I record an episode, if you just write down from memory,

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the steps that you take, then the next time you actually do record, have that list next to you

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so that you can really go through it. Maybe you missed a couple of things. Maybe there's something

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on there that you're like, oh, okay, I guess I don't actually do that. Maybe you already have

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your recording template set, which you absolutely should have, in which case you're not putting on

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like any extra effects or having to mess with the volume levels or anything like that. So...