Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS Podcasting.
On today's episode, I'm bringing you DeepD Ahuja.
DeepD is a podcast producer with HCSparkcast and she has produced more than a hundred podcasts
in a single year.
Collectively, the podcasts she helps to produce have earned more than 55 million downloads.
Enjoy the show.
Well, DeepD, I'm so excited that you're here today.
Can you tell everybody about what it is that you do?
Absolutely, Ashley.
I have been a podcaster, a podcast producer and podcast coach for the past almost two
and a half years.
I work with the Hindustan Times podcasting leg, which is HDSparkcast.
And in the past two years, they've been really good years.
Pandemic for a change has been really good for podcasting.
It's a controversial opinion and I shouldn't be saying it, but let's not celebrate that
fact as well.
So I have thus far produced about 181 podcasts and in 40 journals in six languages.
So yeah, life's been good.
It sounds like it's also been really busy.
It's been very busy.
And now did you say, did you say 180 podcasts, like separate shows?
Separate shows, 180 podcasts out of which on two of our podcasts, we just crossed thousand
episodes each.
Oh my word.
So that's a lot of work.
Yes.
Okay.
So when you say you're a podcast producer, do you mean that you actually have a hand
in helping with each one of these episodes?
To an extent.
So I have a very small team.
Here's how it goes, you know, the entire process.
So Hindustan Times is a large publishing house.
We have print, we have radio, we have digital agencies, we have all of that.
Every other podcaster, most of the podcasters are either print journalists or they are RJs
or, you know, they are just people who are passionate about podcasting and want to try
out the medium.
They are also CEOs, the HROs, you know, all of that, the entire corporate world is also
on podcasting.
So in our little universe, we have about 120, 150 podcasters, right, at EdgeD.
And apart from that, you know, of course, we also open podcasters from outside and we
call that EdgeD Smartcast Originals.
Now, the thing is that my team just consists of five people.
The core team is just five people.
And so we had to create this entire, what is it called?
Like, you know, an inventory of things, a way, a method to do things.
Like a workflow.
Absolutely.
So we have a content calendar that's updated, you know, on a monthly basis where we have
almost 25 episode releases in a day.
Apart from that, you know, we have a pipeline where we release at least five podcasts per
month.
And what I tend to do is I tend to train all the podcasters so that they can become self-sufficient
and they have their own agency and they enjoy themselves.
They have their own space to, you know, explore the medium in their own way.
And considering the fact that they come from such a legacy company, credibility has never
been an issue for us, right?
So in their own agency, in their own way, the way they explore their own medium, then
they have the ownership, you know, to sort of, they're responsible for their own weekly
episodes and all of that.
And I intervene every, say, three months when I want to discuss data with them, when I want
to discuss their podcast performance and so on and so forth.
I hope that answers the question.
It actually does.
No, it's fantastic.
I think it's, I think a couple of the things that you mentioned are pretty interesting.
You said that you train the podcasters to be self-sufficient.
So you give them like a checklist almost, if you will, of the things that they should
be doing in order to produce a good episode?
Yeah, so we take about three to four weeks to release any podcast, right?
And we bank five episodes, which we do with them, you know, which we record with them.
And during that time, the training is ongoing.
So a lot of them speak faster and so they don't know how to breathe really well.
A lot of them have issues scripting because, you know, say, for example, they come from
the print world and the way you write in a print format in that medium is very different
from the way you'd write scripts for a podcast, right?
Some of them don't even write a script.
And so you have to give them a little bit of structure.
So each person, each individual is very different.
And I coach them for about three to four weeks.
Apart from that, I have, you know, we have the HD Smartcast social media channels and
I have my own social media channels that I keep putting out these small nuggets of information
where, you know, people can just do a revision of the thoughts.
Plus, we've come up, you've come on our show, yeh podcast, podcast kya hai, right?
Where we have expert opinions.
So anyone who needs to sort of who needs a, you know, a refresher course, who needs like
a crash course in podcasting, who needs a follow up.
They can, there is enough information out there.
And of course we also make ourselves available almost 24 seven to them so that they feel
supported.
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I mean, it sounds like you basically take anybody who wants to create a show and you
give them all the tools necessary to make it happen.
Absolutely.
Constantly, to be honest.
I mean, you know, because things keep changing in the podcasting world.
I mean, you've come up, RSS has come up with such amazing things already that we spoke
of in our episode on your podcast, podcast kya hai, we were blown.
Everything keeps changing so fast.
So we keep refreshing the content as well.
The educational material that is there on podcasting.
That's amazing.
And what's interesting is I actually had the luxury of speaking to our founders for the
very first two episodes and just listening to them about all the things going on in the
background that a lot of people don't even realize.
Because I mean, you know, you open your podcatcher, like your Google podcasts or your iTunes,
and you turn on your content, you listen to whoever it is that's speaking and you don't
realize all the moving parts going on in the background.
You don't realize that they're having to book the interviews.
They're having to write the podcast scripts.
They're having to put all these systems and processes in place.
And so to me, it sounds like what you do is an invaluable service.
So why is it that you think that someone should hire a podcast producer?
So, you know, podcasting the way it was marketed initially, at least in India, we were told
that it's such a friendly, democratic medium.
Everyone can do it.
Anyone can do it.
And the first person who should be listening to your podcast who could give you feedback
are your close ones, your loved ones.
But the thing is that your loved ones don't always understand the medium.
They won't always understand the subject matter that you're talking about.
They don't have expertise there.
And another controversial opinion right here that a lot of times they might just not be
invested in you in that way.
Right.
And so hiring a podcast producer becomes very clean.
It becomes a cleaner process for you where, you know, the producer is being paid to provide
a service where they keep you in check, where they can give you enough feedback.
They can do secondary research or primary research for you.
They can coordinate guests for you.
They can help you edit or they can get it edited from someone if they have a team, if,
you know, if an individual podcaster decides to hire a team, they will also help with
the distribution side of things because it's a constant, you know, it's a constant partnership
with your distributors.
You can't just leave your episode there.
You have to market it.
You have to talk about it.
You have to talk to different kinds of distribution channels and your podcast producer would be
invested in your content more than they would be probably invested in you and your personal
relationship with them.
And so therefore it just falls in line, right, because on podcasts content is king.
It's so true.
And you know, something that you said that really struck me is you had mentioned that
the podcast producer, because you're paying them, they are invested in you.
And it's kind of like how if you go to the gym, let's say, and you decide, all right,
I'm going to get healthy.
I'm going to get fit.
I'm going to work out.
And you go into it and you have, let's say you find an accountability buddy, someone
who's going to say, you know, come with me.
We're going to keep working out.
We're going to keep getting thin.
Well, and then what happens?
Eventually they stop coming with you.
They stop checking in.
They stop asking how much weight you've lost, but a personal trainer, someone that you've
paid, they're going to be checking in with you because they know if you're not getting
the results that you want, what are you going to do?
You're going to fire them.
And so, yes, exactly.
And so I think that, I think the idea of having a podcast producer, that's actually really
brilliant because like you said, if you're getting paid to do it, you're going to be
actually keeping them top of mind rather than letting them fail.
Absolutely.
It's a part of their performance as well, right?
It becomes a part of your podcast and becomes a part of their portfolio as well, where they,
you know, say that, oh, I produce this podcast and this podcast is this successful.
It has these many listens.
It has these kinds of guests.
So they would also be proud to, you know, sort of own the property along with you.
Absolutely.
I mean, that makes perfect sense because if someone's actually, if someone's there and
they care about it, they're going to do everything they can to help you be successful because
their, your success becomes their success and their success becomes your success.
And the more that, the more that you can show that you have downloads that are coming in,
you have, you know, new listeners that are coming in, then that becomes your piece that
you can say, Hey, I'm a podcast producer.
I helped this guy become successful.
Here's what I can do for you.
Yeah.
It's in the beginning itself.
Like when you asked me what I did, that's exactly what I said, right?
Like so many podcasts, so many languages, so many genres.
And the one thing that I forgot to mention was that 55 million listens on all of my podcasts
to date.
I mean, that is my achievement on a whole.
And that is something a podcast producer would also take care of for your podcast.
That's incredible.
I mean, those kinds of numbers, people dream about that kind of stuff.
And so I think that the idea of having someone who can help you achieve it, I mean, who wouldn't
want to hire a podcast producer?
I don't know.
You tell me.
One of the things you mentioned actually really struck me.
You said that the pandemic, even though it's a controversial opinion, has actually helped
podcasting.
And the reality is it's so true because whenever we were all at home, what did we do?
We were looking at our phones.
We were looking at YouTube.
We were looking at, you know, even our podcasts, our pod catchers.
So I'm curious now, whenever the pandemic first hit, did that like immediately give
you guys a reason to start reaching out to people or did you do anything to tell people,
hey, you should start your podcast?
What was it that you did directly as a result of the pandemic that helped in the business?
I'm just curious.
When we started, yeah, when we began, we were, I think I entered the company in November
2019 and I was already given a task.
I was already told that, hey, you have to produce these many podcasts.
I was a little shocked because, you know, that's not the number that I thought would
come to me.
And then the pandemic hit and it was expected that, you know, the number will drop.
We ended up revisiting a lot of us.
I mean, you know, a lot of different mediums ended up revisiting, you know, their end of
year tasks and, you know, all of those things.
But the thing is with podcasts, the moment the pandemic hit March 2020, that was, oh
my God, I can't believe you're entering 2022.
Wow.
It's hitting me.
Anyway, so March 2020 from a couple of lack of listens, we straight away hit 1.2 million
listens and then we were consistently making 1.2 million listens up until December 2020.
That sort of motivated everyone to come on board and make a podcast of their own.
The other thing that was happening was that a lot of people, a lot of Rjs, print journalists,
a lot of influencers, a lot of, you know, corporate people inside the system, there
was a lot of shuffling happening and, you know, we were just, we were just, we, all
of us, we suffered a recession like world over.
And there was this thing of protecting personal brand or at least having a personal brand.
And this is exactly what podcasts did for each and every podcaster that I have on board
today.
It made them a personal brand.
It gave them personal branding on a medium that is still organically growing.
There is no, you know, paid stuff happening over here.
Everyone is still collaborating with each other and collaborating, by collaborating,
I mean, the true sense of the word, you know, not like paying to collaborate and, you know,
all of those things.
So when that happened, it gave all of them a personal brand and therefore gave them a
little more confidence about their careers, about their jobs.
And in a way, reduced stress, you know, the career stress that you're all facing.
So it kind of did that.
So the pandemic sort of brought down the stress of all of my podcasters to quite an extent.
Right.
And the moment we hit January, 2021, we shot up to like 6 million listens.
So we thought, yeah, so we thought it's going to go down because now, you know, it's been,
we've been in ER into the pandemic.
And then, you know, that year, we don't know what the next year is going to look like.
Are we going to have the second wave?
No tablet.
Are the markets going to open up?
We didn't, we didn't have any clue.
Right.
But the moment we hit 6 million listens, right, in January, we were like, okay, this medium
is autistic.
At least in India, this medium is autistic.
Yeah.
I think, I think it's not just in India.
I think it's also in the States because as people were starting to go back to work, you
know, as soon as they had that commute again, it was, okay, well, what can I do while I'm
on my way to work?
Have something to listen to, whether it's to educate, to entertain, to inspire, or even
just get through the day.
Yeah.
Because let's face it, I mean, podcasters, they have some really cool stuff to share.
They, they're not only just sharing their personal stories, they're sharing, you know,
educational content, entertaining content.
Some of them make you laugh, some of them make you cry, some of them scare the crap
out of you.
I mean, let's, talking about the true crime stuff.
You listen to the, yeah, the true crime podcast, those freak me right out.
But, but it is fascinating how, you know, what, what used to happen was if you wanted
to get your message out to a lot of people, you had to go and, you know, either get a
radio station to hire you or get a newspaper to hire you.
And then you almost had to pay to play.
You had to get all this stuff in place and you had to have a really good message because
if you didn't have a good message, you were let go, or you were told you couldn't do it
anymore.
But podcasting has kind of democratized the content system.
It's made it so that anybody who has a microphone and has a voice can speak out and share their
message.
And I think it's pretty cool that a podcast producer can take that message, refine that
message and help get it out there even more.
So I'm curious, let's say I want to start a podcast and I come to you and I say, all
right, tell me the first step.
What would you say to them?
Two things.
One, that we will inculcate discipline because that's very necessary.
The fact remains that any podcast that hasn't run, you know, for 54 episodes, it's not going
to be successful in that sense.
Even if it is, then, you know, it's an anomaly, but you should at least have 54 episodes,
which means that you should produce your podcast for at least one year.
Right.
So it of course requires a lot of discipline.
But the thing is that I never simply say discipline and then, you know, get the cane out.
With me, with me, it's always supposed to be fun.
Right.
You know, that's, that's my feedback.
If my podcaster in training says, oh, I had a lot of fun.
My job is done.
Right.
I had, I just had to get them hooked onto the medium and that's my job.
Now the thing is that I start off with a couple of things that make sense to them later.
So for me, there is this very important quote that, you know, has made sense to me all
my professional life, which is by Walter Murch, which is editing begins, you know, editing
starts at the beginning of your project, which is what we try to do with, you know, a concept
note.
Then we go into voice training.
We go into writing scripts.
If anyone requires it, a lot of people are natural speakers.
A lot of people are, you know, natural orators.
A lot of people aren't.
And so different people have, you know, different ways of doing things.
Right.
And my first, first few sessions are just, yeah, just speak, just talk, I'm listening.
You know, we just have a chat.
Right.
And then we go into, and the one thing that works very well with podcasters in training
is that when they get to hear their own voice, when they get to hear a playback, that's
when they're, then that's when they have those, you know, aha moments.
They go like, oh my God, I sound so good.
Or, oh my God, I sound so bad.
Or, oh my God, my content is just amazing.
Maybe I need to work harder on my voice or, oh God, I can't do the content, but can you
please get someone to write for me?
You know, and so we pick out these small, small little things and then we start working
on it.
So no one podcaster has one set pattern.
Each podcaster is different.
And so their training is also extremely different.
And once they feel confident enough, so as I said in the beginning, the ownership, the
agency comes from the podcaster.
The moment a podcaster says, can we please record an episode and get it out there?
That is when we go for first recording.
Okay.
That makes sense.
So now you said 54 episodes.
That is impressive, but I'm curious now.
Okay.
So you said 54 episodes and so that's about an episode a week.
Do you do them weekly or do you do them daily?
Do I weekly?
How do you do this?
Some of my podcasts are weekly.
Some of my podcasts are bi-weekly.
Some of the podcasts we produce are also daily and some of them are released, episodes are
released twice a day.
Wow.
So now I'm curious with all that content, so are people paying you to produce these
episodes?
Some of, you know, so the kind of podcasting that brands want to do, the format in which
the brands want to pay money to, you know, sort of have podcasts talk about them is branded
episodes or branded podcasts for us in India, at least.
That's what most of the Indian podcasting industry is catering to at this point of time.
And slowly and steadily, of course, you know, the more educated we are about podcasting,
the more educated the entire industry, the advertising industry and brands become about
podcasting, then we will, of course, bifurcate into the other kinds of, you know, formats
for monetization.
But yeah, some brands absolutely do pay upfront and very happily so.
Now can the average Joe off the street come to you and say, I want to produce a podcast
or is it more that you're looking for a specific type of person who comes to you and says,
I want to start a podcast?
Okay.
So here's the difference.
A lot of companies are UGC companies, which means they are user generated.
They produce user generated content and, you know, they basically have a bigger platform
with a lot of listeners on their platform.
And so therefore that's how the model works over there.
For a lot of companies like HD Smartcast, we do a lot of PGC work, right?
Where we produce the content, we edit it, we take care of the podcast, we take care
of the podcast.
And when an individual from outside the company, from outside the HD universe comes to us,
we tend to, you know, strike a partnership with them.
So of course they are also, you know, working twice as hard.
If they are subject matter experts in whatever they are going to talk about, we are subject
matter experts in training them to become better broadcasters, right?
And then we also take care of the editing, we take care of the post-production, we take
care of distribution, we take care of marketing.
We also give them data insights.
Like I said, after three months, I mean, I just step in and I go like, okay, time to
revisit everything and see what we want to change and see what we want to keep and what
is working for you on an individual level.
Want to work for your audience, you know, on a larger level and what might work for
brands for them to come and pay to be on your podcast, right?
So it's a partnership.
We share, it's a rev share model, if I'm okay to say that.
Absolutely.
I think that makes perfect sense because it's similar to how like Google and YouTube work
where if the person creating the video succeeds, so will YouTube.
So the goal is, all right, we're going to give you all these tools because like YouTube
Creator Academy, they give you all the tools you need to start a YouTube channel completely
for free, but then, you know, you put the content up and if you do well, they get a
cut and even if you don't do well, they get their cut.
No, absolutely.
Because I mean, they are, see, the thing is that when an individual starts to podcast,
they're definitely taking a braver step than the podcast company and that needs to be recognized.
That needs to be validated because you can't as an individual.
I mean, it's just, you know, inhuman to not validate that.
It's as simple as that, right?
When I was an individual podcaster and I hadn't started a podcast production as such as a
career path, when I wasn't on the podcast production and podcast coaching career path,
that's what I faced and I felt lost and I felt alone in the entire process.
And to be honest, podcasting is not, you know, it looks like it appears that you can do everything
on your own and that you can do everything in isolation.
That's not true.
It's just like any other medium also, you know, where things happen in collaboration
and the more you collaborate, the better it is.
Right.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense because I mean, you know, people forget that when we're behind
our microphones, we're sitting at home, we're sitting at home and we're speaking out to
the ether, if you will.
And we have no idea if the content that we're producing is going to land.
We don't know who's going to hear it.
So I definitely, I definitely can see the perks of having someone who's in your corner
basically saying like, yeah, you got this, you're doing it and keep going.
So yeah.
So I think that everything that we've been talking about today, what is really sticking
out to me is that having a podcast producer in your corner is more than just having someone
who's helping you produce your content.
It's also someone who's like backing you, who's giving you the validation that maybe
a listener won't.
It's someone who, who's going to be your cheerleader, who's going to be, like you said, your coach,
but also like you also said, your partner.
And I think that's, I think that's really beautiful.
We're having a touching moment here in this podcast.
It's a warm fuzzy feeling.
Well, most certainly is, especially the person who's around the corner.
So I'm curious, you said that one of the things that you do is you, whenever you start coaching
people, you give them systems and you give them, you know, almost like a checklist, if
you will.
So do you have like a template of things that you give them or is it, is it individual based
on the podcast you're working with?
I do have a template.
That's, I mean, that's how I roll.
I have systems for everything.
That's how, you know, a team of five people is producing 180 podcasts today with like
50 to 55 active podcasts every month.
So of course there's system for everything.
I'm a very, very hardcore and administrative sort of a person, despite the fact that I'm
a quote unquote creative person.
Right.
So, so yeah.
So I do have a system.
There are a couple of documents that are ready for a podcaster.
Of course, one is the podcast hygiene, where we talk about how to record, how to record
in different formats, how to write a script.
And even if they want to write pointers and they don't want to write the entire script,
that's also fine.
So there are pointers for those.
Then how to, you know, then there is an entire concept note, which I give to each one of
my podcasters so that they think for their podcast, so that they understand exactly what
they want to do.
And the questions are very, very specific.
Right.
So if I have an audience question, if I, if I, for example, want to ask my podcaster,
who do you think your target audience is?
It's not going to be just one question.
So they have to write, of course, you know, whether they are, which age group do they
belong to?
What sex is it?
What city do they belong to?
What SEC section they belong to?
And, you know, so on and so forth.
Right.
All of those things, educational levels, all of those things they have to write.
But apart from that, then there are questions like, so what does, you know, a day in the
life of your listener look like?
Right.
Because that will determine for them when their episode should be released.
Then they would have a question like, what is your audience really looking for?
Right.
So someone can say, oh, they will stumble upon my podcast because they're just looking
to escape from reality.
Right.
But then what will you offer as a podcaster to your listener?
And then the question then becomes that, okay, so maybe they clicked on my podcast because
they want to escape reality.
But what they will get in turn is the sense of community.
They will get a sense of belonging, that they will get an expert advice on something that
they were looking for and therefore were feeling lacking.
Right.
So these are the kind of questions that very, very like, you know, streamlined questions
is what I do with my concept note.
And then it goes on to, you know, guidelines for show notes, guidelines for podcast intro,
podcast outro, all of those things.
And you know.
That's really amazing because everything that you're describing sounds like not only giving
them ideas to make them start thinking about it from a listener's perspective, but what
you've been describing sounds like everything that someone would need to know if they actually
want to be successful.
Because if they're not thinking about the end listener, the end person that's going
to be consuming the content, then they're setting themselves up for failure.
That's true.
Yeah.
And wow.
To keep visiting it.
I mean, so like I said, every three months they revisit their concept note too.
Okay.
So you actually do quarterly checks to make sure that they're living up to the expectations
that have been set from the beginning.
Absolutely.
I mean, I'm, I'm, uh, I'm playful.
I'm fun, but I'm also a hard-tussed master.
Cracking the whip, making sure they do what they need to do.
Absolutely.
Their success is my success and my success is theirs.
That's fantastic.
Well, where can people find you online if they are interested in learning more about
your podcast production?
So if anyone has a question for me, they can always reach out to me on my Instagram handle.
It is mind your podcast, like mind your language.
It is mind your podcast.
M-I-N-D-Y-O-U-R-P-O-D-C-A-S-T.
And for any kind of inspiration regarding podcasting, right?
I mean, that was just information on podcasting, but if you want to be inspired to become a
podcaster, then you must, must follow us on at HTSmartcast, that is H-T-S-M-A-R-T-C-A-S-T.
And we are available on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Clubhouse.
Um, have I left anything out?
I don't know.
Have I left?
I'm not sure.
That was a lot.
What's awesome is if you look at HTSmartcast, you might even find me, Ashley Grant from
RSS.
Believe me, on this podcast, what is this podcast?
So all you've got to do is if you want to listen to our previous conversation, our first
conversation ever on a podcast, you must go to HTSmartcast.com, that is H-T-S-M-A-R-T-C-A-S-T.com
and either search for Ashley Grant or RSS.
Yes, Ashley with RSS podcasting.
Yeah.
And what is this podcast, which is Y-E-Edge Podcast, what is a wordcast?
Yes, we'll make sure we leave a link in the show notes.
Um, now I'm going to ask you the same thing I ask everyone and it always puts them on
their toes.
Is there anything I didn't ask you, you would prefer that I had?
Oh, well, there are so many questions, Ashley, but I think we should continue our conversations
after the recording stuff.
I'm so much so, you know, Ashley, uh, me, of course, uh, after all the, and you know,
conversations with people globally have been eyeopening, one of them being you, right?
And it's been so amazing to, I mean, not walk for an industry where you don't know where
it's going, right?
Now we know where it's going.
Now we, now we know where we are all going in terms of podcast industry globally.
And I love that.
So yeah, so that's one thing and we will continue our conversations, but, um, maybe off the
mat of the records.
I love it.
Well, I just want to say that I really appreciate your time today.
I know that you're very busy.
I mean, a lot of podcasts going on, so thank you for taking the time to chat with us.
Thank you so much, Ashley, for calling me.
This is really, really nice.
It made my day.
Thank you.
Well, my fellow podcasters, I hope you enjoyed all of the insights Deepti had to share with
us.
To learn more about how to grow and launch your own podcast, visit our website at rss.com
or the podcast.com.
You can get started for free and have your first episode on us.
Thanks for tuning in.