1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,880 Welcome to episode 135 of the GT on 5G. 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,520 It's the latest little-sized scoop on everything 5G. 3 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:08,960 We typically cover six topics in 20 minutes 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,320 and it's brought to you by more insights and strategy. 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:15,560 But this week, Anshul and I are gonna do a special episode 6 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,640 with our expectations for Mobile World Congress 2023. 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,840 So you and I will both be there next week. 8 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,840 There's been a lot of pre-announcement activity 9 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,560 that's been going on over the last two weeks. 10 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,200 So that sort of sets the precedent 11 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,680 or the foundation for our podcast this week. 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,280 But one of my big expectations is about network slicing. 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,320 And so recently, Cradlepoint and Ericsson 14 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,480 announced a proof of concept 15 00:00:42,480 --> 00:00:45,880 where they demonstrated network slicing 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,460 with respect to application deployment 17 00:00:48,460 --> 00:00:49,880 in distributed environments. 18 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,400 And I spoke with executives recently, 19 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,900 this is a very complicated endeavor, 20 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:57,160 mapping applications to slices, 21 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,800 especially in distributed environments with SD-WAN. 22 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,600 And I'm expecting to hear a lot more about this 23 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:04,760 from Ericsson and Cradlepoint, 24 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,600 but from other infrastructure providers as well. 25 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,000 So I'm wondering, what's your take on all that? 26 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,840 Yeah, I think I definitely have a little bit more 27 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:17,520 of a device-centric slant. 28 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,280 Me, it feels like there's gonna be a lot of Chinese OEMs 29 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,120 at the show announcing their European 30 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,440 and global launches, their devices. 31 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,360 In the last few years, there's been a trend 32 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:34,360 of Chinese OEMs launching devices in December and January 33 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,960 ahead of the Chinese New Year. 34 00:01:37,960 --> 00:01:42,960 And then announcing their global and European launches 35 00:01:44,820 --> 00:01:47,520 for the rest of the world at MWC. 36 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,020 So you're getting Xiaomi, you're getting OPPO, 37 00:01:51,020 --> 00:01:53,360 you're getting Honor, you're getting OnePlus. 38 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,320 You're getting all of the big Chinese OEMs 39 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,480 showing what they've launched over the last month or two, 40 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,920 and generally announcing their availability 41 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,440 for the rest of the world. 42 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,640 That said, not all of these launches 43 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,680 are going to be targeted towards the US. 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,280 I would say most of them are not. 45 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:13,120 Most of them are targeted towards Europe 46 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,600 and MWC being a European show, that makes perfect sense. 47 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,300 I notice Americans will get excited about devices 48 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:21,320 that we may not get, 49 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,720 which has been quite a sad phase of what's going on. 50 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,240 And there are going to be some technologies 51 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:29,720 that will find their way in the US. 52 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,720 Nuvia ZTE working together with a company called Leia 53 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,600 to make a 3D tablet, a tablet with a 3D display, 54 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,200 but also 3D cameras so you can capture a few videos in 3D. 55 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,440 And it looks really incredible, at least from what I've heard. 56 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:45,560 And I'll be checking that out 57 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,560 and I will actually be reviewing that. 58 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,240 So hopefully I'll be able to show the US version of that, 59 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,160 which will not be a ZTE product. 60 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,920 Nuvia will also be showing their AR glasses. 61 00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:58,600 So there's a lot going on the consumer side, 62 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,440 a lot of devices, lots of demos from Qualcomm and MediaTek. 63 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,920 You know, I have a lot of things to do and see it to show. 64 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,520 And you and I will almost never see each other 65 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,760 during that entire duration. 66 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:13,600 You're right, yeah. 67 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,280 I'll be focused on the infrastructure, the players, 68 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,360 and you get the cool stuff. 69 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,640 You get the devices, all the AR, VR, and all of that. 70 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:25,480 And certainly, what's fun about this event 71 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,840 is just being able to walk the fear on, 72 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,680 be able to meet these companies 73 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,640 and see these demos and that sort of thing. 74 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:33,800 It's gonna be super exciting from my perspective. 75 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:35,160 We've seen some announcements 76 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,280 from MediaTek and Qualcomm, right? 77 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:38,840 Recently leading up to the show. 78 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,560 And this is a strategy from a lot of these vendors. 79 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,840 They'll pre-announce before the show to build momentum. 80 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,600 And then there may be some follow-on announcements 81 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,080 at Mobile World Congress next week 82 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:50,120 when you and I are both there. 83 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,160 But do you have any back on some of the pre-briefing? 84 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,320 And a lot of the stuff's under embargo, obviously, 85 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,760 but is there anything that you can share 86 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,040 from like an end-of-ice perspective 87 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:01,200 that you've been pre-briefed on 88 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,840 that maybe the embargo's already lifted? 89 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,840 Yeah, so today, Qualcomm announced that StableDiffusion, 90 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,840 which is a very popular AI application for image generation 91 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:17,040 using text descriptions, 92 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,120 they have that now running on smartphone. 93 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,160 So it doesn't descend that data to the cloud 94 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:25,400 and receive it back. 95 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,400 They're able to run this entirely on the smartphone 96 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,520 and do it within seconds as opposed to minutes or hours. 97 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,000 So the performance is very similar 98 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:35,600 to what you would get on the cloud, 99 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,120 but using your own device and your own performance. 100 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,600 And that's a big deal because it shows the performance 101 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,360 that Qualcomm is able to achieve on device. 102 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,440 And enable developers to offload a lot of that 103 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:52,440 today's cloud AI rendering and inference to the device side, 104 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,200 which improves security, privacy, 105 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:56,760 and can potentially improve speed 106 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,800 as AI acceleration improves and the models get optimized. 107 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:00,840 In addition to that, 108 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:03,320 Qualcomm also announced an app called Qualcomm Wear, 109 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:08,320 and that's their IoT application for industrial IoT. 110 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,280 And it's a complete solution, connectivity services, 111 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:16,680 PPIs, the whole shtick, it's a whole thing. 112 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:17,520 Yeah. 113 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,800 And then MediaTek also just announced, 114 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,560 actually go live when we published this, 115 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,960 that they are going to have, 116 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,840 that they've announced an actual chip set 117 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:30,160 that will be powering all the satellite 5G that they have. 118 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,200 It's actually, it has a name. 119 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,880 It's the MT6825, 120 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,240 and it's actually a standalone chip 121 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,440 specifically for satellite communications. 122 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,040 So it's like something they can just add on to any SSC. 123 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,160 Obviously it would most likely be a MediaTek SSC, 124 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,200 but that's not exclusive. 125 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,360 And it's interesting because it's not necessarily 126 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,320 the same approach as other companies are taking, 127 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,880 as opposed to having integrated into the modem, 128 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:00,880 but it's also 3GPP and TN release 17 compliant. 129 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,480 So it's actually more universally applicable 130 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,800 to what the future of 5G satellite will be 131 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,240 than some of these proprietary applications. 132 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,160 And I think they will also be demonstrating that 133 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:16,720 with their partner, Bullet, 134 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,320 who will have both a Motorola DeFi 2, 135 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,320 as well as the Cat phone, 136 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,600 I forget if it's S75 or something like that. 137 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,840 But it's interesting because they will be able 138 00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:31,400 to also show this hotspot that you can, 139 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,080 Bluetooth, an iOS or an Android device 140 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:35,840 that will give you satellite two-way messaging, 141 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:37,200 which is pretty cool. 142 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,040 Yeah. 143 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,360 I don't know if anybody else offers that today. 144 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:41,760 It's an interesting thing, 145 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,160 and I'll definitely be checking that out at the show. 146 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,880 And then on top of that, MediaTek also announced 147 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,800 a new SSC, which is the Dimensity 7200. 148 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,320 They've been causing announcements out there, 149 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,560 just like Qualcomm. 150 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:53,400 Yeah. 151 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:54,400 The Dimensity 7200 is interesting 152 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,760 because it's a new tier of SSC 153 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,240 that they haven't had before. 154 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,200 They have the 9,000 series at the top, 155 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:02,560 then they have the 8,000 below that. 156 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,400 And then there was this 1,000 series, 157 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,680 which was like the whole naming scheme they had. 158 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,520 So now they're adding the 7,000 series, 159 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,000 which will sit between the 1,000 and the 1,000, 160 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,480 but it still uses all of the latest cores from ARM 161 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,000 and the latest TSMC 4 nanometer 162 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,800 second generation fabrication process. 163 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,800 So it should be very power-efficient 164 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,480 and be very popular for mid-tier devices. 165 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:24,720 On Super and Pro, 166 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,360 MediaTek really over the last year, 167 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,880 they've really filled out their product roadmap. 168 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,240 And they were always a value player to Qualcomm, 169 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,360 but now they've got mid-range and higher-end solutions, 170 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:39,440 and they're really giving Qualcomm a run for their money. 171 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,280 And it's good. 172 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,240 I always talk about this, 173 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,240 competition breeds innovation. 174 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,080 And so I think it's a good thing for the industry. 175 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:46,720 But with that said, 176 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:51,200 my next expectation really is around private cellular. 177 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,240 And there's been a lot of hype around this 178 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,800 and like how the private cellular 179 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,040 with its ultra-low latency, 180 00:07:58,040 --> 00:07:59,520 especially with 5G, 181 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,000 can really do some things that are very disruptive 182 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,320 relative to Wi-Fi when you look at 183 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,440 manufacturing automation, tactile robotic control, 184 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:08,920 and that sort of thing. 185 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,480 And this week, 186 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,840 Solona announced that it is expanding its footprint. 187 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,800 It's been really primarily a US player, 188 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:19,680 and now it's going global. 189 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,920 So I spoke with the CEO recently, 190 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,360 and they're hiring sales staff, 191 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,240 they're building a channel to really expand into Europe 192 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,680 and really take their private 5G in a box global. 193 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:34,680 And I think it's a wise strategy. 194 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:37,760 There are lots of routes to private cellular networking. 195 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,640 I've talked about that on prior podcasts, 196 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,080 but I really do think another big theme, 197 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:43,800 we talked about network slicing earlier, 198 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,280 but another big theme from an infrastructure perspective 199 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,040 will be around private cellular. 200 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,560 I'm expecting to hear some new news from Nokia as well 201 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:55,960 as they're maturing their portfolio and certainly Cisco. 202 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,320 I'm expecting, I can't really talk about it right now, 203 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,280 but although the embargo may break when this podcast posts, 204 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,320 but there will be a strategic announcement 205 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,360 with a company that many people are familiar with 206 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,240 on expanding Cisco's presence within private networking. 207 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,080 Would love to get your insights and thoughts 208 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,880 and maybe what the connection is 209 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,960 to what you focus on with AR, VR and devices. 210 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:22,000 Yeah, I'm really interested in what the, 211 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,040 I think we talked about this podcast ago, 212 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,520 but we haven't actually had a chance to see it 213 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,280 because it's not MWC yet, 214 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,960 but I'm really excited to see that Ericsson Intel 215 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,440 have partnership on standalone 5G with a PC 216 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,720 using network slicing. 217 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,080 Cause I think that's like the, 218 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:42,560 that's like application that brings together 219 00:09:42,560 --> 00:09:46,560 all of the possible components and creates a solution 220 00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:51,560 that I believe will be a huge boost to 5G adoption 221 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,200 and increase its use within the enterprise. 222 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,760 Because truthfully, I think a lot of consumers 223 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,760 are fairly justified in their lack of interest 224 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,760 in 5G because realistically to today, 225 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,360 most consumers aren't really seeing that much 226 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:15,200 of a difference in their experience as a cellular user. 227 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,120 Applications haven't changed. 228 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,360 They're marginally faster and in some places they're slower 229 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,040 because the transition to mid band for some carriers. 230 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,040 So I think that there will be big change 231 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,040 in the way 5G is perceived. 232 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,120 I'm not sure if that will happen 233 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:34,360 on the consumer side right away, 234 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,560 but if we do see this network slicing application 235 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,040 really take hold with standalone networks 236 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,720 finally becoming a thing, 237 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,800 I really believe that this one could be a great application 238 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,720 for us to see in person, experience it. 239 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,000 Cause you know, I personally have an optimal network 240 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,040 solution at home. 241 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,400 I'm getting three milliseconds over wifi, 242 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,080 gigabit per second in each direction. 243 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,240 That's very difficult to achieve outside 244 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,200 of a very controlled environment. 245 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,960 And can put even I have challenges 246 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,480 because yesterday I was trying to stream, 247 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,800 I was trying to download all of my PSVR2 titles to my PS5. 248 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,160 I was doing a virtual VR conference 249 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,160 and I had issues with interference. 250 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,880 Not every, there's a lot more work that needs to be done 251 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,880 with QoS and enabling better wifi and cellular interactions. 252 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,560 Believe that private networking 253 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:28,880 and network slicing is gonna be the key 254 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,920 that unlocks a lot of potential. 255 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:32,760 I agree. 256 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,600 And it's a journey. 257 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,280 You and I talk about this all the time. 258 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,680 If the 5G deployment is a journey 259 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:41,200 and the mobile network operators have probably gotten ahead 260 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,720 of the hype cycle and people are asking themselves 261 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,920 like what's really transformative, 262 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,800 but really the true problems of 5G gets unlocked 263 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,920 with standalone that's marrying the core 5G infrastructure 264 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,920 with 5G rant and network slicing. 265 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,640 To your point, quality of service and business environments, 266 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,680 also things like guaranteed latency levels 267 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:06,120 for cloud gaming, mobile gaming and that sort of thing. 268 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,320 And it's a journey. 269 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,600 In the US, mobile has been first to SA in their low band, 270 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,760 but they're focused on their mid band build out. 271 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,120 And as we've talked about also in prior podcasts, 272 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,880 mid band is the best balance of performance and propagation. 273 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,400 It's gonna take time. 274 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:26,120 And AT&T and Verizon are not too far behind with C band 275 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,640 and Romano build outs. 276 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,000 And I think Vodafone is clearly a leader in Europe 277 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,240 with what building getting closer to standalone. 278 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,240 We started this journey, how many years ago has it been, man? 279 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,320 It's almost five years now, right? 280 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,800 It depends how you count it, 281 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,480 but I would say from first 5G network deployment in 2019 282 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,840 to today, we are almost at four years. 283 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,120 Yeah, it's been a while. 284 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:51,960 It's been a while. 285 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,680 So it's a journey and we've got another six or seven years 286 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:57,640 because these Gs tend to be about a decade in duration. 287 00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,760 But yeah, I'm super excited to see all this come together. 288 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:01,800 And I really, the other thing that I'm really excited 289 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,040 about this level of World Congress is that last year, 290 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,160 you and I were there with our chief analyst, 291 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:07,000 Patrick Morehall. 292 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,800 It was well attended, 293 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,960 not at the levels that it's been in the past. 294 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,440 I really do think 2023 will be the year we're past COVID, 295 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,920 we're past having to like provide vaccination cards 296 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:18,760 and that sort of thing. 297 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,680 And I'm really expecting there to be great momentum there. 298 00:13:21,680 --> 00:13:24,320 People are gonna show up and it's gonna be super exciting. 299 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,120 But with that said, my third thought around my expectation 300 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,200 around Mobile World Congress will be, 301 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,160 and I'm gonna caveat this because artificial intelligence, 302 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:35,920 there's a lot of whitewashing going on there. 303 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:37,560 Everyone claims that like, 304 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:39,840 it's one of these very esoteric concepts 305 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,880 like the cloud for some people. 306 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,800 I think the promise of artificial intelligence 307 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:49,400 is in the ability for it to do intelligent things 308 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,440 from an automation perspective. 309 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,800 And these new 5G networks are gonna require automation 310 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,720 for fast provisioning. 311 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,520 And we're already seeing some of this happen with Apple 312 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,160 and Apple moving to eSIM on the iPhone in the US. 313 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,840 And I think that will become a pervasive extension globally, 314 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,120 but it comes down to intelligent automation. 315 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,080 And we've talked about 6G in the past 316 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,560 and how AI may be a part of that. 317 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:18,840 But what I'm really expecting to see 318 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,960 are some very tangible demonstrations 319 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,560 of how machine learning and artificial intelligence 320 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,440 can really power automation 321 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:28,960 to do some pretty powerful things 322 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,240 when you start talking about 5G as a service. 323 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,600 Cisco has talked about their solution. 324 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,280 There will be announcements at Mobile World Congress 325 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,280 where Cisco will be enhancing their portfolio, 326 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:44,120 AWS, Azure, they have 5G as a service solutions as well. 327 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,760 And AI is gonna be a big part of that. 328 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,280 So one of my big expectations, 329 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,200 I'm hoping to see some real practical applications 330 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,480 in machine learning and AI 331 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,320 with respect to the infrastructure layer. 332 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,320 But I'm gonna toss it back to you 333 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,040 because you are end device expert or VR AR expert. 334 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:04,000 Where do you think AI infused with 5G 335 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,080 can really change the user experience 336 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,800 from that end device perspective? 337 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,360 I will answer your question after I say 338 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,360 that you reminded me that T-Mobile and Amazon 339 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,520 asked us that they were gonna work together 340 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,840 on 5G advanced network solutions. 341 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:20,680 That's right. 342 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,120 And I mentioned that because I tweeted that out earlier 343 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:24,400 this week, so thank you for mentioning. 344 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,120 That was two days ago. 345 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:30,080 And that's basically deploying AWS solutions 346 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,320 for T-Mobile's private 5G application. 347 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,080 So I think T-Mobile might be the first one 348 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,000 to take AWS solution for this application. 349 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,120 But it's really interesting 350 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,920 because AWS is the leader in this space 351 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,640 and they have a lot of experience on the edge. 352 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,960 So I think there's a really big uplift 353 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,560 that T-Mobile gets by partnering with AWS in this. 354 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,120 And I think it's gonna be interesting to see 355 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,440 how it works itself out over the course of the year 356 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,040 because I think we both agreed 357 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,920 that T-Mobile's edge capabilities were a bit weak 358 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,960 when it comes to 5G private and non-private applications. 359 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,680 So I think that partnering with Amazon is a big deal. 360 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,600 We'll probably see some of that at the show. 361 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,720 I know Neville will be speaking at the Deutsche Telekom. 362 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,120 I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it 363 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,720 because I'm double booked during that slot. 364 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,160 But hopefully I'll always be able to say hi. 365 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,840 I think we might even have a separate meeting 366 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,720 with Neville on privately. 367 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,440 But yeah, I think your question that you asked me, 368 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,520 it's really interesting because I've been watching AI 369 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:36,200 infuse itself into the VR and AR space 370 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,480 for quite some time now. 371 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,480 Most of the head tracking and location mapping 372 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,040 and a lot of the object detection, that's all AI accelerated 373 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,320 and actually has been for years. 374 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,440 It's really funny because now people are paying 375 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,080 way more attention to AI. 376 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,080 But the reality is AI had to be implemented years ago 377 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:58,960 for it to work right. 378 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,080 And those algorithms are getting better over time. 379 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,960 They're becoming more power efficient. 380 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,160 The hardware is becoming more fixed function 381 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,040 for those capabilities. 382 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,520 So actually there's a couple of generations 383 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:16,520 of Qualcomm's AR, XR, VR hardware that goes into headsets. 384 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,480 The majority of headsets use their chipsets. 385 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,480 And most of those headsets have these fixed function 386 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,480 capabilities for AI built into the ISP, built into the GPU. 387 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,760 So there's a lot of AI acceleration 388 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,720 already built into the hardware for a lot of these devices. 389 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,600 So it's being used for vision applications 390 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,240 because that's where they have a lot of experience. 391 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,160 But I will say, and we've heard this with X75 392 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,480 and I think we're gonna continue to see it with MediaTek. 393 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,560 They have some demos at MWC that they'll be showing. 394 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,520 AI accelerated 5G modems. 395 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,160 Qualcomm said that their modems gonna be 396 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,280 two and a half times faster for inference. 397 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,480 And people don't really fully comprehend. 398 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,440 The modem has its own tensor cores, 399 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,760 its own ability to do inference 400 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,600 separate from the GPU, separate from the ISP, 401 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,960 separate from the DSD. 402 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,000 So you have AI already actively coexisting 403 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,440 along with the 5G capabilities. 404 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,560 But now we're gonna start seeing on-device AI 405 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,080 and then infrastructure side AI, 406 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,000 and then those talking to each other 407 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:32,480 to improve signal, battery life and performance. 408 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,960 There's a lot of AI that's getting infused. 409 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,680 And I saw a lot of that from a lot of companies 410 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,520 and it'll be really interesting to see 411 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,280 what Qualcomm will be demoing as well as MediaTek 412 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,160 at the show specifically with AI 5G. 413 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,440 Yeah. Yeah, you mentioned X75 as a Qualcomm solution 414 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,520 that we've talked about on a prior podcast, 415 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,040 but yeah, it's exciting. 416 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,520 And to your point, this has been AI has been maturing. 417 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,160 It requires huge data sets to train the models 418 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:03,080 and that sort of thing. 419 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,720 So one of my sniff tests, 420 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,200 when I talked to an infrastructure provider, 421 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,440 that claims that they have the best AI algorithm, 422 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,240 I always ask them, how big is that data lake? 423 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,640 And there are only a few infrastructure providers 424 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,840 that really have massive data lakes 425 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,840 like the Cisco's and the Arubas of the world. 426 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,200 But truly from my perspective, 427 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,200 the demonstrable impact of AI on infrastructure 428 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,480 will be around self-healing and quality of service 429 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,360 and that sort of thing. 430 00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:33,080 And like you mentioned, 431 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,480 that ripples down to device performances. 432 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,480 And I will mention Huawei for a moment. 433 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,640 They have been a leader in the past in integrating AI 434 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,080 into a lot of their SOCs and their chip sites 435 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,680 on the phone level to do its really basic things 436 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,080 like their mate products where they were able to determine 437 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,160 as a user, were you more or email client intensive 438 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,320 or were you more browser intensive 439 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,480 and adjust the performance accordingly. 440 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,160 I'm gonna toss that out there to you. 441 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,800 Do you see any other phone manufacturers 442 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,880 like Samsung or Apple going in that direction? 443 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,480 The way I look at it is everybody's doing it. 444 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,360 I think there's varying degrees of AI. 445 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:16,440 I think Google is way out far ahead of everybody 446 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,400 on their implementation of AI. 447 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,200 I think Qualcomm is doing a lot to try and enable 448 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,720 their OEMs to do more, 449 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,760 but especially in hardware with APIs and stuff like that. 450 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,680 But I think Google is by far the way ahead of everyone 451 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,000 in their capabilities. 452 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,480 I think you'll see more and more companies 453 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,200 taking advantage of the hardware capabilities, 454 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,040 especially this year. 455 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:41,520 Yeah, actually this was something that I said 456 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,520 would be a trend at CES. 457 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,120 So I was a little early, 458 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:46,520 but I have a lot of this ability 459 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,680 to a lot of different companies 460 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,160 and I have the experience to know that 461 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,480 when something is starting and the AI trend 462 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,880 is really becoming something tangible 463 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,400 because the hardware and APIs are there. 464 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,840 But I would say Samsung has tried for many years 465 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,880 to make Dixby an assistant and have an intelligent AI 466 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:05,720 on your smartphone. 467 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,520 But if you look at what's going on 468 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,120 in like all of these smartphone cameras, 469 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,000 every camera is AI. 470 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,680 There isn't a smartphone camera out there 471 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,280 that doesn't use AI. 472 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,200 Whether it's for photo or video, 473 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,200 that's a standard thing. 474 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,000 That's actually been going on for years. 475 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,600 It's very lately marketed, 476 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,800 but I'm sure that marketing will get pushed forward 477 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,160 as far as possible 478 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,480 because they don't have an AI story 479 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,440 outside of voice recognition and camera. 480 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,640 That's what they're gonna push is their AI story. 481 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,320 But I think there's a lot more that can be done 482 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,040 with device intelligence 483 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,760 anticipating the user's needs, 484 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,560 making sure that they have the best user experience 485 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:46,280 catered to their needs. 486 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:47,440 Yeah. 487 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,280 I agree. 488 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:49,480 Very well said, my friend. 489 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,520 It's been a different podcast this week, 490 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,240 but we decided to try something different. 491 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,400 I think it's been a really engaging conversation, 492 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,280 but for our viewers and listeners, 493 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,360 tune in next week because Anshul and I 494 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,400 will be at Mobile World Congress in beautiful Barcelona, 495 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,480 sharing our live tweets and our insights. 496 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,640 But with that said, my friend, why don't you take us home? 497 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,640 Absolutely. 498 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,160 We hope our viewers and listeners 499 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,760 found this week's topics interesting. 500 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,120 If anyone would like to provide insights 501 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,120 for a specific 5G topic for a future podcast, 502 00:22:20,120 --> 00:22:22,080 please reach out to us on social media. 503 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,280 Will is at WebZoneSeg, and I'm at Otshozog. 504 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,560 We hope you have a great weekend 505 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,160 and please tune in again next week 506 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,920 where we'll be coming to you from Barcelona. 507 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,320 And don't forget to rate us and subscribe as well. 508 00:22:33,320 --> 00:23:01,320 Thank you.