WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.859 Welcome to episode 244 of the 6G podcast. It's 00:00:03.859 --> 00:00:06.639 the latest inside scoop on everything 6G. We 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:09.960 cover about six topics in about 30 minutes, and 00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:11.439 it's brought to you by More Insights and Strategy. 00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:14.660 I'm Anshul Sog, and joining me again this week 00:00:14.660 --> 00:00:18.100 is fellow analyst Mike Dano from Ookla. And I 00:00:18.100 --> 00:00:22.239 just got back from GTC 2026 in San Jose, which 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:24.899 was... quite the whirlwind. Mike, were you anywhere 00:00:24.899 --> 00:00:26.800 this week or did you get a break from travel? 00:00:27.059 --> 00:00:29.320 No, I got, yeah, I got a break. I was here all 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:31.500 the whole time, but I was actually watching all 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:33.679 the NVIDIA stuff with great interest and had 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:35.840 several conversations about it because I think 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.579 all eyes are on GTC this week. That is ground 00:00:39.579 --> 00:00:41.619 zero for all the interesting stuff. Yeah. And 00:00:41.619 --> 00:00:43.520 tell me what you saw. I'm actually quite curious 00:00:43.520 --> 00:00:46.740 to hear it, to hear what you have to say. Yeah. 00:00:46.820 --> 00:00:49.799 So I think in terms of telecom stuff, I think 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:52.439 the biggest announcement. that wasn't already 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:57.799 announced at MWC was the Grid AI or AI Grid announcement, 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.039 or however you want to call it. This is not to 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.140 be confused with Nvidia's already existing Grid 00:01:03.140 --> 00:01:06.239 technology product, which is specifically for 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.659 streaming games. They moved away from the Grid 00:01:09.659 --> 00:01:13.299 name and turned it into GeForce Now, which is 00:01:13.299 --> 00:01:15.719 a cloud gaming streaming service. And they've 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:19.640 repurposed Grid for telecom uses. And this is 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:25.150 a kind of like a mesh computing distributed network 00:01:25.150 --> 00:01:29.230 of compute, of course, utilizing NVIDIA GPUs. 00:01:29.590 --> 00:01:33.750 And for AI acceleration, this is not to be confused 00:01:33.750 --> 00:01:36.650 with what they're doing in their AI RAM, because 00:01:36.650 --> 00:01:38.790 the partners that they're working with are actually, 00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:42.709 some of them don't even have a RAM, like Comcast 00:01:42.709 --> 00:01:45.069 and Spectrum, but they are also partnering with 00:01:45.069 --> 00:01:48.489 AT &T Mobile. And they're also... Cisco's involved 00:01:48.489 --> 00:01:51.810 in this as well as a networking partner. And 00:01:51.810 --> 00:01:55.310 they're part of the AT &T AI grid application. 00:01:55.769 --> 00:01:58.469 The AT &T application seems to be more IoT focused, 00:01:58.549 --> 00:02:02.450 while Comcast is a little bit more generalized 00:02:02.450 --> 00:02:04.689 and actually mentions GeForce Now, which is funny 00:02:04.689 --> 00:02:08.129 because they do some GeForce Now optimizations 00:02:08.129 --> 00:02:11.349 with L4S, which is a whole other thing. It's 00:02:11.349 --> 00:02:16.280 a codec slash thing that allows... the end point 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:18.639 to communicate backward to the cloud and anticipate 00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:23.460 lag and reorganize packets. But not to get distracted, 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:26.539 companies like Akamai are also involved. So it's 00:02:26.539 --> 00:02:28.539 a really big announcement. I think the one thing 00:02:28.539 --> 00:02:31.259 that's really interesting is that there's just, 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.099 it's, it feels like it's very broad in the sense 00:02:34.099 --> 00:02:37.419 that it's not just one, one way of doing things. 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.159 And it's almost nebulous in a way, because I 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:44.219 think it allows people to add more compute at 00:02:44.219 --> 00:02:46.199 different layers of the network. AI -RAN is a 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.080 very specific area of the network. This feels 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:51.759 like it's a layer above that, somewhere either 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:56.360 in the core network or somewhere in the cloud 00:02:56.360 --> 00:03:00.280 edge, or even all the way up in the cloud. It 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:03.000 feels like it's more flexible. And what I think 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:05.080 is interesting is a lot of the announcements 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:09.219 that were talked about in this, or the types 00:03:09.219 --> 00:03:11.560 of products that were utilized in these announcements, 00:03:12.159 --> 00:03:15.680 where the Nvidia RTX pro 6 ,000 cards, which 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:19.039 are not really like edge AI. They're more like, 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:23.159 like multi -purpose compute, which is there's 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:25.680 a graphics capability to them as well. So it's 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:28.900 not just for AI. It could also be for graphics. 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:30.860 And I think that would be really interesting 00:03:30.860 --> 00:03:34.900 for stuff like AI or sorry for AR and VR at the 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:36.979 edge, because then you could supplement that 00:03:36.979 --> 00:03:39.319 compute with those graphics cards that are maybe 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:42.159 not at the brand. level right at the very edge 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:44.300 but they're just a little further back which 00:03:44.300 --> 00:03:46.060 gives you a little bit more power right because 00:03:46.060 --> 00:03:48.300 you're not going to run these three to six hundred 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:52.699 watt gpus on the ram like you would a much smaller 00:03:52.699 --> 00:03:55.319 one so i think this is an interesting announcement 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:58.900 because it it creates a new layer i think of 00:03:58.900 --> 00:04:02.159 the network where compute can exist but there's 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.319 still a lot of ai ran i think that kind of bolts 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:09.400 onto this And what's interesting is I didn't 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:11.300 really get the sense that there was much talk 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:16.199 of 6G in the talk about this grid, and that it 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.139 was more about AI and enabling AI compute in 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:21.779 different parts of the network. And I rambled 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:23.160 quite a bit, so I'm going to let you respond. 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:25.579 No, I'm very interested to hear that. I was watching 00:04:25.579 --> 00:04:27.939 it from afar. That is what I got. It really does 00:04:27.939 --> 00:04:33.980 sound to me like NVIDIA is using AI to resurrect 00:04:33.980 --> 00:04:38.019 edge computing. Because I feel like a lot of 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:41.279 this kind of stuff has already been covered in 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.360 the years before AI, sort of circa 2019, by companies 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.600 like Ericsson had Edge Gravity. There was Mobile 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:50.899 Edge X that was eventually acquired by Google. 00:04:51.160 --> 00:04:54.180 There was a lot of startups like Edge Micro and 00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:58.319 Vapor .io. And then companies like AT &T made 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:00.779 deals with Microsoft for edge computing. And 00:05:00.779 --> 00:05:04.509 Verizon had a huge deal with AWS. For edge computing 00:05:04.509 --> 00:05:06.790 and even on the Verizon coverage map, you could 00:05:06.790 --> 00:05:10.009 see the edge, the mechs, the mobile edge compute 00:05:10.009 --> 00:05:13.170 locations that Verizon had started up. And I 00:05:13.170 --> 00:05:16.550 heard you talk about edge computing fabrics and 00:05:16.550 --> 00:05:18.589 these sort of federations of edge computing. 00:05:18.730 --> 00:05:21.829 And boy, this sounds very similar to that. Very 00:05:21.829 --> 00:05:24.129 similar. It's just you throw the dash the AI 00:05:24.129 --> 00:05:27.410 on top. What's really funny is I think you're 00:05:27.410 --> 00:05:30.209 right. In fact, somebody mentioned the word mech 00:05:30.209 --> 00:05:31.889 and then pulled it back very quickly when they 00:05:31.889 --> 00:05:35.029 said that. I think you're right there. But I 00:05:35.029 --> 00:05:38.269 think what's interesting is Mac's biggest problem 00:05:38.269 --> 00:05:41.750 was it didn't have a killer app, right? It didn't 00:05:41.750 --> 00:05:47.170 have this, why do we need all this compute? Now, 00:05:47.230 --> 00:05:52.589 if you add AI to that, I think if AI had grown 00:05:52.589 --> 00:05:55.170 at the time when we had Mac, I think it would 00:05:55.170 --> 00:05:57.069 have been fine. I think Mac would have survived. 00:05:57.449 --> 00:06:01.509 So I do think having an application for this 00:06:01.509 --> 00:06:05.519 compute does help. And I think having other applications 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:07.899 for this compute will also help, which is why 00:06:07.899 --> 00:06:09.220 I think it's really interesting that they're 00:06:09.220 --> 00:06:12.480 using the RTX Pro 6000 Blackwells because they're 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:14.699 multipurpose, right? You can use them for graphics 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:16.980 and you can use them for AI. So you could do 00:06:16.980 --> 00:06:19.019 that. You could accelerate some video workloads 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:22.660 if you wanted to, because this GPU is that capable. 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:26.620 It is expensive. It is power hungry, but it gives 00:06:26.620 --> 00:06:28.839 you flexibility and it doesn't have to only be 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:30.879 AI applications, even though that's probably 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.199 what it's going to pay for. 90 % of these deployments. 00:06:34.339 --> 00:06:38.139 I feel like in this age of AI, all previous assumptions 00:06:38.139 --> 00:06:40.279 are being thrown out the window. You just cannot 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.439 anticipate what this AI wave is going to do. 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:48.560 And so, yeah, my natural setting is skeptical, 00:06:48.699 --> 00:06:52.000 especially because I feel like we just went through 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:55.019 the edge computing thing and it just recently 00:06:55.019 --> 00:06:58.259 fell apart. But here we are in the age of AI 00:06:58.259 --> 00:07:01.300 and no former calculations can be applied to 00:07:01.300 --> 00:07:06.379 this new AI world, I think. I was going to say 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:07.939 that that brings me to the thing I wanted to 00:07:07.939 --> 00:07:09.259 talk about, which was the Bell announcement. 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.360 This is exactly. And part of the reason that 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.420 I am a little less skeptical this time around 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:18.379 is because of announcements like we saw at Mobile 00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:20.660 World Congress from Deutsche Telekom and this 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:23.100 new announcement from Bell. Basically, the announcement 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:25.439 is that Bell is going to build a really big. 00:07:26.009 --> 00:07:30.629 AI factory in Saskatchewan. And the thing that 00:07:30.629 --> 00:07:32.970 caught my eye was that Bell is going to invest, 00:07:33.170 --> 00:07:36.589 they said, $1 .7 billion into building this thing. 00:07:36.709 --> 00:07:39.509 80 jobs, lots of money. They're going to do the 00:07:39.509 --> 00:07:42.990 compute hardware will be funded by Cerebrus and 00:07:42.990 --> 00:07:46.670 CoreWeave. And most importantly, Bell is really 00:07:46.670 --> 00:07:49.870 putting some real money into this data center 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:53.519 that they're building. To the degree where they're 00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:56.920 going to take a real big hit on their free cash 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:00.980 flow this year, but they're estimating in 2028, 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:05.779 adjusted EBITDA is going to grow much higher 00:08:05.779 --> 00:08:08.000 than what they previously expected. So basically 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.899 after they pay for the build out, they're expecting 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:13.720 a rise in their free cash flow due to this gigantic 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:15.699 data center that they're building in Saskatchewan. 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.879 And it really does tie directly into this idea 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.990 of... distributed compute. And for Bell specifically, 00:08:23.269 --> 00:08:25.750 it really ties into the idea of data sovereignty. 00:08:25.990 --> 00:08:27.990 That is their whole argument. This is a data 00:08:27.990 --> 00:08:31.649 center that is run for Canada by Canadians, owned 00:08:31.649 --> 00:08:34.730 by Canadian companies, with the data residing 00:08:34.730 --> 00:08:38.029 inside of the borders of Canada. And Bell has 00:08:38.029 --> 00:08:41.139 been very vocal about this ai strategy that they're 00:08:41.139 --> 00:08:44.279 embarking on but i think that the important thing 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:46.600 with this announcement is that they're really 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:48.779 putting some serious money behind it and they 00:08:48.779 --> 00:08:51.360 talked they talked about the the amount of nvidia 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.820 gpus that this computing site is going to have 00:08:53.820 --> 00:08:56.320 really lines up with this whole thing the idea 00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:58.480 of follow follow the money People at Bell have 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:00.480 been convinced they're not just joining a federation 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:02.179 of edge computing sites. They're not just spinning 00:09:02.179 --> 00:09:05.840 up one or two test sites. No, they're building 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.220 a gigantic AI data center there in Saskatchewan. 00:09:09.419 --> 00:09:12.419 $1 .7 billion. It is not insignificant. For Bell, 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:15.279 that is serious capital outlay. And so they believe 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.720 in this whole thing. I think that further erodes 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.299 my skepticism of this trend. I think that there's 00:09:21.299 --> 00:09:23.419 really something here. I'm not entirely sure. 00:09:23.950 --> 00:09:26.889 It makes the same amount of sense for an AT &T 00:09:26.889 --> 00:09:29.269 to build a data center in Virginia, but certainly 00:09:29.269 --> 00:09:32.149 for Bell in Canada, in the remote areas of Canada, 00:09:32.289 --> 00:09:35.409 I think that this kind of thing could, certainly 00:09:35.409 --> 00:09:37.169 Bell believes it's going to be successful. Yeah, 00:09:37.190 --> 00:09:38.830 I saw this announcement and I thought it was 00:09:38.830 --> 00:09:40.710 a pretty big deal. What was really interesting 00:09:40.710 --> 00:09:43.889 is I had a conversation with the other Canadian 00:09:43.889 --> 00:09:47.509 carrier about something very similar and their 00:09:47.509 --> 00:09:51.009 investment in AI with TELUS. And they also had 00:09:51.009 --> 00:09:54.580 a very... built in Canada, financed by Canada 00:09:54.580 --> 00:09:59.580 for Canadians, sovereign AI. I think we're in 00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:04.200 a place where there's a very heavy focus on sovereign 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.299 AI and empowering that. And I don't think it's 00:10:07.299 --> 00:10:09.519 going to only happen in Canada. But I do think 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.759 the relationship between the US and Canada has 00:10:12.759 --> 00:10:15.919 forced a little bit more of the Canadian carriers 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.960 to take on the role of what maybe we would have 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:23.090 expected a US CSP to do instead. And I think 00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:26.070 they want to protect their data. And I saw this 00:10:26.070 --> 00:10:28.950 as a 300 megawatt data center. So that's pretty 00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:32.210 considerable. It's not quite gigawatt scale like 00:10:32.210 --> 00:10:35.509 the US. But to your point, there's a reason why 00:10:35.509 --> 00:10:37.769 you probably won't see carriers deploy these 00:10:37.769 --> 00:10:40.309 kinds of things in the US because most likely 00:10:40.309 --> 00:10:43.809 it's the CSPs with their gigawatt. capacity that 00:10:43.809 --> 00:10:45.929 they're going to be deploying not to mention 00:10:45.929 --> 00:10:47.590 the power infrastructure required to deliver 00:10:47.590 --> 00:10:50.889 that i did see that it's happening in saskatchewan 00:10:50.889 --> 00:10:53.490 just right outside of regina which i made sure 00:10:53.490 --> 00:10:55.370 not to mispronounce because i've been corrected 00:10:55.370 --> 00:10:59.029 many times and yeah the canadian operators have 00:10:59.029 --> 00:11:01.789 also been notorious for under investing so i 00:11:01.789 --> 00:11:04.590 think seeing them make this kind of commitment 00:11:04.590 --> 00:11:06.950 means that they're very serious to your point 00:11:06.950 --> 00:11:09.929 and they wouldn't make this decision lightly 00:11:10.570 --> 00:11:12.710 And I think that there are probably some signals 00:11:12.710 --> 00:11:14.990 from the Canadian government that they're going 00:11:14.990 --> 00:11:19.929 to be more restrictive on AI and how where AI 00:11:19.929 --> 00:11:23.210 data moves and how it's processed. Yeah, I think 00:11:23.210 --> 00:11:25.309 that the idea of data sovereignty is just it 00:11:25.309 --> 00:11:27.289 makes so much sense in the current geopolitical 00:11:27.289 --> 00:11:29.590 environment. I just I think that is absolutely 00:11:29.590 --> 00:11:32.110 the place where we'll see a lot of this kind 00:11:32.110 --> 00:11:35.120 of investment, though, again. offer a skeptical 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.399 view i think we still have not yet seen the the 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.639 killer ai app there's not necessarily an ai service 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:44.440 i think a widespread ai service it's certainly 00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.179 valuable i've used it all the time i know a lot 00:11:46.179 --> 00:11:49.720 of people do i but i'm not yet convinced that 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:54.000 there that there's enough demand for ai services 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:57.360 to warrant this much investment in data centers 00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:59.940 to keep them running 24 7 to keep that demand 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:02.600 up i think we're all assuming that the ai marketplace 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.279 is still in its infancy and that additional applications 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:08.059 and usage will evolve over time and i would not 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:10.740 be surprised to see that i just i guess we haven't 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:12.740 seen it yet i think that we are all expecting 00:12:12.740 --> 00:12:16.039 more out of this ai wave it's just hard to tell 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.740 exactly what it's going to result in where we 00:12:18.740 --> 00:12:21.120 where we're going to be in a year or two in terms 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.960 of ai technology and what we'll be doing with 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:27.019 it yeah and I agree with that. I think we might 00:12:27.019 --> 00:12:29.120 be getting a bit of a sense of that with some 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:33.340 of these agentic claw -based applications. And 00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:36.679 the application is actually the ability to work 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.820 for you and do things for you while you do other 00:12:39.820 --> 00:12:42.899 things. But that's still very niche right now. 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.559 And I think the productivity angle for companies 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.679 is it's almost invaluable and being able to multiply 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:53.039 people's productivity. So I think that seems 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:55.259 to be. where a lot of energy is being focused 00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:57.500 right now. But obviously that's not really the 00:12:57.500 --> 00:12:59.500 focus of, I think, what these carriers are trying 00:12:59.500 --> 00:13:01.399 to do. I think what these carriers are trying 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:03.200 to do might be a little bit more focused on private 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.159 personal data, like medical and other sensitive 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:11.480 AI data. Moving on to my second topic, I wanted 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:15.360 to talk about foldables, specifically the Oppo 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:20.279 Find N6, which is the latest foldable from Oppo. 00:13:20.539 --> 00:13:23.539 It is... their first foldable with no crease 00:13:23.539 --> 00:13:26.840 and they actually showed it on stage against 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.879 the fold seven and how different they look with 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:32.340 and without the crease i think this will be a 00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:34.100 precursor for apple's foldable which will most 00:13:34.100 --> 00:13:36.279 likely also not have a crease because that's 00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:38.259 one of the biggest critiques of these foldables 00:13:38.259 --> 00:13:41.100 is the crease down the middle in addition it's 00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:45.379 also super thin It's top of the line, 200 megapixel 00:13:45.379 --> 00:13:48.919 main camera, Snapdragon 8 Elite Gem 5, 6 ,000 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:51.980 milliamp hour battery. It's not quite as thin, 00:13:52.059 --> 00:13:56.320 I believe, as the Honor phone or as big of a 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.519 battery, but it's close. But I think it will 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:00.500 have a better camera. And some reviews came out 00:14:00.500 --> 00:14:03.039 a few days ago and they're pretty glowing. But 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:05.980 what's interesting is almost at the same time 00:14:05.980 --> 00:14:09.500 as this new foldable came out, Samsung discontinued 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:13.320 their Galaxy Z tri -fold. which is a very high 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.639 -end tri -fold phone, which is about $3 ,000. 00:14:17.259 --> 00:14:20.399 And yeah, it wasn't for a lack of demand because 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.080 they were selling out of basically everyone that 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.500 they were making. I think they were just losing 00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:28.620 too much money on actually producing them. I 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:31.179 think this was more of an exercise in showing 00:14:31.179 --> 00:14:33.779 that they could do it rather than actually trying 00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:37.620 to capture market share with it. Huawei, I assume, 00:14:37.700 --> 00:14:40.000 is also not making much money, if any, on their 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:43.960 tri -fold. Again, Huawei is not really in the 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.360 business of making money for their Halos. So 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:48.659 I think right now it looks like trifolds are 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:52.600 like a concept that you might be able to buy, 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:55.399 but isn't really economically viable because 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:59.080 of all the cost of the engineering. So I think 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:04.279 we might not see trifolds be very common or very 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:06.779 affordable. And I think that we'll probably see 00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:10.029 more of them, but in very low volumes. I think 00:15:10.029 --> 00:15:12.549 right now people seem to be focusing on just 00:15:12.549 --> 00:15:17.389 one fold. And I was a big fan of Oppo's foldables 00:15:17.389 --> 00:15:21.549 for a long time. They own OnePlus and they did 00:15:21.549 --> 00:15:25.330 the Find N2, which was really a great phone and 00:15:25.330 --> 00:15:29.370 the basis of the OnePlus Open, but they haven't 00:15:29.370 --> 00:15:31.009 refreshed that one. So we're not going to get 00:15:31.009 --> 00:15:33.129 it in the US. And unfortunately, we're not going 00:15:33.129 --> 00:15:34.710 to get any of the Oppo phones in the US. But 00:15:34.710 --> 00:15:37.830 the cool thing is that the new Find N6 also has 00:15:37.830 --> 00:15:40.519 80 watt charging. and 50 watt wireless charging 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:44.720 so it's fast and yeah like this isn't quite 6g 00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:48.539 but i think foldables will become way more commonplace 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:53.179 when 6g rolls around and yeah i think we're in 00:15:53.179 --> 00:15:54.919 a place where foldables are becoming like the 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:59.120 top end rung of the market and i think the biggest 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.059 complaint that i've had in the past was cameras 00:16:01.059 --> 00:16:03.159 and it seems like we're finally getting where 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:05.419 the point where like foldable cameras are good 00:16:05.419 --> 00:16:06.779 enough that you don't need to carry around a 00:16:06.779 --> 00:16:09.200 second phone like i do where i had the fold 7 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:10.980 but i also had my iphone because the camera was 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:13.100 just so much better on the iphone but now i'm 00:16:13.100 --> 00:16:16.200 i moved to an s26 ultra and i'm reviewing that 00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.159 and i love the camera but it's not a foldable 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:21.240 like i'm already missing my foldable yeah i was 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.340 gonna ask is that a is that a form factor that 00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:27.100 you do are you a fan of foldables my biggest 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:30.320 use case for a foldable other than having my 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:33.259 child's monitor their crib monitor on one screen 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:36.100 and doing stuff on another i love having my work 00:16:36.100 --> 00:16:38.519 calendar and then my gmail on the other screen 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:40.500 and being able to just oh like someone's asking 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:42.220 me like are you available this time and just 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:44.539 have the calendar open at the same time and not 00:16:44.539 --> 00:16:46.779 have to do the tab thing where you like do the 00:16:46.779 --> 00:16:48.820 windows correct before it's so much more valuable 00:16:48.820 --> 00:16:52.009 or best one another one is have a menu open on 00:16:52.009 --> 00:16:54.309 one screen and then have the online ordering 00:16:54.309 --> 00:16:56.169 open on the other. There's so many applications 00:16:56.169 --> 00:16:58.070 where having two things open at the same time 00:16:58.070 --> 00:17:01.529 is great. And like over time, the phone also 00:17:01.529 --> 00:17:04.049 learns what those pairs might be and suggests 00:17:04.049 --> 00:17:07.670 pairings that you use together often. So yeah, 00:17:07.750 --> 00:17:10.650 like I'm a foldable convert. I'm not as converted 00:17:10.650 --> 00:17:13.410 on flips as I am on folds. I think folds are 00:17:13.410 --> 00:17:15.890 way more productivity focused, but the camera 00:17:15.890 --> 00:17:18.210 has always been a weakness. And I do think the 00:17:18.210 --> 00:17:20.460 Razer Ultra, which we talked about. a few weeks 00:17:20.460 --> 00:17:22.619 ago. I think that will also solve a lot of problems 00:17:22.619 --> 00:17:24.660 in terms of the camera capabilities and might 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:28.359 convince me to ditch the 26 Ultra after I'm done 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.599 reviewing it. I did notice in the most important 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:34.539 news of the week, the trailer for the new Spider 00:17:34.539 --> 00:17:37.519 -Man movie came out. I saw that. And he's got 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.240 a foldable phone. Spider -Man does. It's a flip. 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:42.240 Yep. It's a flip phone. I couldn't tell quite 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.440 what it was, what model, but the fact that Spider 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:47.740 -Man carries a foldable phone, I feel like that's 00:17:47.740 --> 00:17:51.539 a... That is an interesting signal to point at 00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:54.160 the potential opportunities in this market. I 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:56.200 think we're all eyes are on Apple to see what 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:58.339 it's going to do. But I agree, it's widely expected 00:17:58.339 --> 00:18:00.500 that Apple will release a foldable phone at some 00:18:00.500 --> 00:18:04.200 point. Yeah, the nine to five Google guys say 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:06.480 it was a Z Flip from Samsung. That's not a surprise. 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.700 They probably paid for that one. I would be shocked 00:18:09.700 --> 00:18:12.420 if they didn't. But there are still people who 00:18:12.420 --> 00:18:14.539 are not aware that these phones exist. So it's 00:18:14.539 --> 00:18:16.119 probably a good marketing opportunity for them. 00:18:16.509 --> 00:18:18.190 I'm sure it's a good marketing opportunity for 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:19.690 them. It's hard to beat having Spider -Man carry 00:18:19.690 --> 00:18:21.670 around your phone. That's a pretty good selling 00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:26.789 point. So my second one, you've got the phones. 00:18:26.829 --> 00:18:31.329 I'll take the broadband. And my second news announcement 00:18:31.329 --> 00:18:33.650 that I think is worth pointing out this week 00:18:33.650 --> 00:18:36.809 is about Google Fiber and Astound Broadband. 00:18:36.930 --> 00:18:38.670 They announced a merger at the beginning of this 00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:41.630 week. Certainly very interesting. Both of them 00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:44.369 are sort of tier two regional fiber providers 00:18:44.369 --> 00:18:48.079 in the U .S. But from a networking side, this 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:52.819 is very much an example of the fiber land grab 00:18:52.819 --> 00:18:55.880 that's going on in the U .S. right now. And this 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:57.920 is a big trend that I think is only expected 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:01.779 to continue. We saw it with AT &T acquiring Lumen. 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:07.220 We saw it with Verizon acquiring Frontier. And 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:10.279 we've seen it with a lot of smaller acquisitions 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.900 by some of the smaller fiber providers. Basically, 00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:16.680 it's a fiber land rush. The goal is to get as 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.519 much territory as you can so that you can deploy 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.500 fiber to it. And that's certainly what this acquisition 00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:27.619 between Astound and G -Fiber, that's what this 00:19:27.619 --> 00:19:31.079 stems from. And also it just means G -Fiber is 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:32.559 stepping out of the market. What we don't have 00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:36.500 yet is an idea of whether this new... merged 00:19:36.500 --> 00:19:40.200 company is going to be branded as Google Fiber 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.579 or G -Fiber, or if they're going to keep the 00:19:42.579 --> 00:19:46.799 Astound broadband brand. The company Stonepeak 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.220 is the majority shareholder for Astound, and 00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:51.180 obviously Alphabet is the majority shareholder 00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:53.759 for G -Fiber. Alphabet is going to keep a stake 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:57.039 in the merged company. And the merged company 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.420 is going to have about 7 million locations in 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:04.240 26 states when that merger is finished. And it 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.200 is going to provide some fairly substantial competition 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:10.619 against, and I believe Comcast and Charter. So 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:14.339 those are who that merged company is going to 00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:18.180 be competing against after they merge. But yeah, 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:20.779 it's another signal of the land grab that's going 00:20:20.779 --> 00:20:24.180 on. And I think in my mind, the question is, 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.940 who's next? As companies increasingly acquire 00:20:27.940 --> 00:20:31.200 fiber providers, we've even seen T -Mobile, right, 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.000 acquire several smaller fiber providers. And 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:36.099 I think they're on their way toward 12 to 15 00:20:36.099 --> 00:20:38.519 million total locations with fiber in the next 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.119 few years. And so the question is, which company 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:44.019 is going to be the next one that will be snapped 00:20:44.019 --> 00:20:48.369 up in this land grab? From what I've seen, discussion 00:20:48.369 --> 00:20:52.170 is around BrightSpeed or Unity. Those are two 00:20:52.170 --> 00:20:56.069 other sort of regional DSL cable fiber providers. 00:20:56.309 --> 00:20:59.190 And so the discussion is possibly is Verizon 00:20:59.190 --> 00:21:02.170 emerging as a bidder for either BrightSpeed or 00:21:02.170 --> 00:21:06.130 Unity. Nothing announced, no real rumors along 00:21:06.130 --> 00:21:09.069 those lines, no published reports on discussions 00:21:09.069 --> 00:21:12.920 between those companies. But I think that's just 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.519 generally market discussion. That is the next 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.359 acquisition target, possibly BrightSpeed or Unity 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.339 with Verizon discussed as a possible acquisition 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:24.200 candidate for that company. But again, nothing 00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:26.140 announced. But I think that's what's happening 00:21:26.140 --> 00:21:29.119 right now. It is a land rush. And really, the 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.400 question is, now we've got Astound and GFiber 00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.480 merging. Who's next as these companies merge? 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.940 And then the real question, though, that hangs 00:21:36.940 --> 00:21:40.920 over this whole market is. How many fiber providers 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:44.700 are we going to have in big markets? Cause many 00:21:44.700 --> 00:21:47.539 markets already have two fiber providers and 00:21:47.539 --> 00:21:49.920 some markets already have three and a few have 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:53.039 four fiber providers in the same market. And 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.220 that, that does seem like too many fiber providers. 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.980 It really, the economics break down if you can 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:01.140 only get 10 or 20 % of the, of a given territory 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:04.809 in terms of fiber take rates. And once the number 00:22:04.809 --> 00:22:07.710 of fiber providers in a given market rises to 00:22:07.710 --> 00:22:09.549 a certain point, the economics just don't work 00:22:09.549 --> 00:22:11.269 out anymore. I think right now we're in that 00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:14.049 shakeout of the market in terms of number of 00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:16.630 providers in a given market, who owns all those 00:22:16.630 --> 00:22:19.190 providers, whether it's a wholesale business 00:22:19.190 --> 00:22:21.369 model or if they're going to direct to consumer. 00:22:21.609 --> 00:22:24.390 We're really seeing that shakeout right now. 00:22:24.470 --> 00:22:26.789 And obviously, as we're hearing on the 6G podcast, 00:22:27.109 --> 00:22:29.769 this all has direct importance to 6G because 00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:33.119 This is the grid that underlies all wireless 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.140 networks. This fiber network is the grid that 00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.740 underlies current 5G networks. And certainly, 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.720 as companies build out fiber to new locations, 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.819 that is the wired grid that will be underneath, 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.880 that will be the foundation for any 6G network, 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:50.339 for sure. Yeah, I was going to say that I feel 00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:53.750 like this was... Semi started by Google fiber 00:22:53.750 --> 00:22:56.009 back when they first launched the service to 00:22:56.009 --> 00:22:59.130 create some kind of competition in internet services. 00:22:59.230 --> 00:23:04.089 And then, and then Google fiber stalled and stopped 00:23:04.089 --> 00:23:07.150 expanding. And then they bought, if you remember 00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:11.309 web pass for all the millimeter wave backhaul, 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:14.690 instead of having to dig, I don't think they 00:23:14.690 --> 00:23:16.430 really took advantage of web passes capabilities. 00:23:17.309 --> 00:23:18.990 I think they just bought the network and utilized 00:23:18.990 --> 00:23:21.630 it for what it was. The reason why I know that 00:23:21.630 --> 00:23:25.029 is because my aunt lived in a web pass home in 00:23:25.029 --> 00:23:27.049 her condo and they had web pass and I was really 00:23:27.049 --> 00:23:29.950 impressed with the speeds and stuff, but I wasn't 00:23:29.950 --> 00:23:31.710 impressed with the lack of growth because I thought 00:23:31.710 --> 00:23:33.329 once Google bought web pass, they were going 00:23:33.329 --> 00:23:35.069 to actually take advantage of that tech and they 00:23:35.069 --> 00:23:37.470 never really did. I'm a little sad to see Google 00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:41.529 Fiber get kind of hoovered into Astound. I will 00:23:41.529 --> 00:23:43.609 say that I'm not as familiar with Astound's network, 00:23:43.710 --> 00:23:46.269 so I did some research and looked into their... 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.339 deployments. They're fairly prominent in Texas, 00:23:50.619 --> 00:23:52.700 but they're also pretty prominent in the Northeast 00:23:52.700 --> 00:23:55.759 and a little bit in the Northwest. They also 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:58.240 have some pretty big footprint in California. 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:01.440 So they're in the more populated states, it seems. 00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:04.960 Nothing at all in Florida. Maybe they could be 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:08.160 looking for... some fiber down there. But yeah, 00:24:08.259 --> 00:24:09.759 I think you're right that according to the New 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.319 Street folks, Astound is actually primarily cable. 00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:16.059 Cable is 85 % of their total locations. They 00:24:16.059 --> 00:24:19.759 have 4 .5 million locations in 13 states, Astound 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.619 does, and 85 % of those are still cable. So they 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:25.559 have a significant number of locations that they 00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.140 would presumably upgrade to fiber, Astound does, 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.660 owned by Stonepea Capital. But yeah, it's an 00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:34.519 interesting merger between those two. I don't 00:24:34.519 --> 00:24:37.019 think I would have expected that between chief 00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:39.599 fiber and astound and i will tell you the general 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.339 sentiment is negative in terms of google getting 00:24:42.339 --> 00:24:44.299 acquired or at least google fiber specifically 00:24:44.299 --> 00:24:47.539 because i think a lot of people really had more 00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:50.420 trust in google but also they see this as give 00:24:50.420 --> 00:24:54.259 google giving up on another venture and yeah 00:24:54.259 --> 00:24:57.539 google fiber did provide some metros with real 00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:00.880 competition to cable and pushed cable to either 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.170 lower prices or deploy fiber so It'll be interesting 00:25:04.170 --> 00:25:07.410 to see how this shakes out long -term. But I 00:25:07.410 --> 00:25:09.950 would also say, I feel like this current fiber 00:25:09.950 --> 00:25:13.630 land rush was started by AT &T and them kind 00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:16.589 of building out their fiber as they built out 00:25:16.589 --> 00:25:19.650 their 5G network and talking about how that influences 00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:22.410 their ability to build out that network and to 00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:26.329 have enough capacity as backhaul. So I think 00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:28.289 it's really interesting that we're in this phase 00:25:28.289 --> 00:25:30.569 thanks to AT &T. I don't think, to your point, 00:25:30.630 --> 00:25:32.740 I don't think we're stopping anytime soon. And 00:25:32.740 --> 00:25:35.700 I will always chuckle at the fact that Verizon 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:39.539 sold its fiber, most of its fiber business, and 00:25:39.539 --> 00:25:42.839 then reacquired it through an acquisition, them 00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.480 realizing maybe they needed that fiber. But yeah, 00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.960 I think this is not a total shock. But I would 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:51.400 also say, to your point, there will probably 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.079 be more consolidation. And I do think having 00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.539 multiple fiber options is good. But to your point, 00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:00.480 very rarely do you actually have two companies 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.559 coming in and bringing the same. bringing in 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.359 different fiber. Like where I live, it's basically 00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:09.059 AT &T or Google piggybacking on AT &T's infrastructure. 00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:13.720 Yeah. And the G -Fiber network was, it's pretty 00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.940 remarkable. It's interesting that Google built 00:26:16.940 --> 00:26:19.279 that out. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.559 for Google to be an internet provider in just 00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.480 a handful of cities, essentially. That doesn't 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.720 really gel. I understand why they wanted to do 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:30.950 it in order to. push competition and to raise 00:26:30.950 --> 00:26:34.029 speeds and lower overall internet prices. But 00:26:34.029 --> 00:26:36.230 I know that there were rumors that G -Fiber was 00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:39.390 for sale in the last few years. And I will say, 00:26:39.410 --> 00:26:42.450 just in terms of Ookla data on G -Fiber, their 00:26:42.450 --> 00:26:44.150 network is quite remarkable. And just in terms 00:26:44.150 --> 00:26:47.309 of speeds, they have very high speed tiers that 00:26:47.309 --> 00:26:49.130 they sell. We certainly see that in the data. 00:26:49.210 --> 00:26:50.630 One of the interesting things that we do see 00:26:50.630 --> 00:26:53.730 in the Ookla data is extremely low latency on 00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:56.769 that network, which I think is, my theory is 00:26:56.769 --> 00:26:59.799 that it's due to the rest of Google's infrastructure, 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:02.019 right? That not only were they building a fiber 00:27:02.019 --> 00:27:04.859 network provider, they were also leveraging some 00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:08.380 of the routing and data center and long haul 00:27:08.380 --> 00:27:10.859 network that Google relies on for the transmission 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:13.200 of just google .com and all the other Google 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:16.619 services. So I think it was always a G5 rule 00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:18.759 is always a standout, certainly one to watch, 00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:21.420 but was never going to be a nationwide play. 00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:23.519 by Google. I just don't think that was their 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.900 goal. And so I assume that from the Google perspective, 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.839 it's mission accomplished, right? Like they created 00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.779 some additional competition for cable providers 00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:34.099 and other companies in the market with super 00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:36.259 fast speeds. And now they can bow out having 00:27:36.259 --> 00:27:38.799 accomplished what they set out to do is what 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.740 I assume that their viewpoint is on the market. 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:44.539 Yeah, I think so. I think I never actually used 00:27:44.539 --> 00:27:47.380 Google Fiber mostly because AT &T was available 00:27:47.380 --> 00:27:50.680 to me at basically the same price. And AT &T 00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:53.180 is been really solid for me for the last seven 00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:55.579 or eight years. But I will say that there was 00:27:55.579 --> 00:27:57.539 a time when I used to get one millisecond ping 00:27:57.539 --> 00:27:59.900 on AT &T, and I think they realized they didn't 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:02.500 need to deliver that, and they dialed me back 00:28:02.500 --> 00:28:06.380 to five milliseconds. So I do think that all 00:28:06.380 --> 00:28:08.220 fiber networks, for the most part, are capable 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:10.039 of it. Whether or not they want to support it 00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.920 is a different thing. Yeah, yeah, it does. I 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:14.660 assume it requires significant investment in 00:28:14.660 --> 00:28:16.960 order to lower those latencies down past just 00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.839 a few milliseconds. Yeah. But... We've got, I 00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:22.299 think, our last topics, your last topic and my 00:28:22.299 --> 00:28:24.960 last topic, gelled together. You want to go first? 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:30.339 Sure. So I saw this headline a couple days ago, 00:28:30.460 --> 00:28:32.539 and I didn't really think it was anything special 00:28:32.539 --> 00:28:35.380 because I've already discussed that Qualcomm 00:28:35.380 --> 00:28:38.339 plans on having 6G devices for the Olympics. 00:28:38.539 --> 00:28:41.359 But then I saw the mention that the Trump administration 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:44.640 was specifically asking for three commercial 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.599 6G devices for the LA Olympics. The Trump administration 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:54.059 plans to launch 6G in 2029, which is a year ahead 00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:56.640 of when everybody else is basically saying that 00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.480 6G will be commercially ready, including leaders 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:02.960 like T -Mobile. So it seems like there might 00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:06.839 be a little bit of a disconnect between with 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:10.339 what the Trump administration wants and what 00:29:10.339 --> 00:29:13.220 the industry is working towards. Obviously, LA 00:29:13.220 --> 00:29:16.609 is happening in 2028. So it won't be anything 00:29:16.609 --> 00:29:20.069 commercial by any means. The Olympics, the LA 00:29:20.069 --> 00:29:22.869 Olympics are happening. Yeah, in 28. It would 00:29:22.869 --> 00:29:25.970 have to be something pre -standard to a certain 00:29:25.970 --> 00:29:30.029 degree. It's unclear what standard that will 00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:34.190 be, but most likely it will be some form of 3GPP 00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:39.160 and most likely it'll be release 20. It was very 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:40.880 interesting to see this headline because it seemed 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:43.200 like there's a little bit of a reality distortion 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.420 field around what the Trump administration wants 00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:48.579 and what the industry is working towards. And 00:29:48.579 --> 00:29:51.859 this was brought up during a Politico conference 00:29:51.859 --> 00:29:55.980 called Powering 6G, and it was an SGP of Global 00:29:55.980 --> 00:29:58.359 Government Affairs from Qualcomm. They're going 00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:00.940 to do what they can do, I think, at this point. 00:30:01.180 --> 00:30:04.079 But I will be very curious to see, one, what 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.579 Qualcomm is able to deliver, and two, how the 00:30:07.579 --> 00:30:10.400 Trump administration will shape this because 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:16.019 they got into office in 2024, which means the 00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:19.619 election will happen in 2028. So I'm wondering 00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:22.819 how aligned this will be with their, it's not 00:30:22.819 --> 00:30:24.220 going to be a reelection campaign. We know that, 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:27.240 but there's going to be some kind of effort to 00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:30.539 claim global six -year leadership, national pride, 00:30:30.819 --> 00:30:33.279 et cetera, et cetera, at these Olympics. And 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.950 I think that's part of it, but release 21. is 00:30:36.950 --> 00:30:39.630 technically going to be the real 6G standard. 00:30:39.769 --> 00:30:42.210 I'm very curious to see what this will actually 00:30:42.210 --> 00:30:46.069 be in terms of 6G because of the 2030 timeframe 00:30:46.069 --> 00:30:49.450 and how it's two years ahead of what everybody 00:30:49.450 --> 00:30:52.750 is actually planning for. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, 00:30:52.769 --> 00:30:57.289 so I, the NTIA, the government agency that is 00:30:57.289 --> 00:30:59.990 tied to the White House, which essentially is 00:30:59.990 --> 00:31:03.109 overseeing the BEAD program and many other programs 00:31:03.109 --> 00:31:05.509 and overseeing the Huawei Rip and Replace program. 00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:11.019 Late last year, NTIA announced that they wanted 00:31:11.019 --> 00:31:15.220 6G at the Olympics. So I assume that this all 00:31:15.220 --> 00:31:19.079 stems from an initiative within this current 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:23.700 administration to push 6G at the Olympics. I 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:25.680 think that there's a whole of government effort 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:29.319 going on right now that is working on convincing 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.019 companies like Qualcomm to... move quickly so 00:31:33.019 --> 00:31:37.480 that the USA can proclaim a leadership position 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.940 in 6G. It's the exact same thing that we had 00:31:40.940 --> 00:31:43.400 during 5G. It's the race to 5G. If you remember 00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:46.240 all those discussions, this is the same thing 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.579 again. It is the race to 6G. It's each carrier 00:31:49.579 --> 00:31:53.140 and each government wanting to claim first. And 00:31:53.140 --> 00:31:55.839 certainly the LA Olympics are a good place for 00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:58.200 that to happen. Do you remember the whole Verizon 00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:01.720 and KT back and forth within the same week? It 00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.039 was within hours. And I think there was, my understanding 00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:06.000 was that, I think it was on the Verizon side. 00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:07.740 One of them had to rush it. They just had to 00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:09.759 rush it out. It was like several weeks ahead 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:11.759 of time. And they saw what was going on in Korea 00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:13.259 and decided that they had to pull the trigger. 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:15.180 Because yeah, you got to be first. You got to 00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:17.019 be first. It can't be a week late. No, that's 00:32:17.019 --> 00:32:18.980 not going to work. And I'm seeing the same thing 00:32:18.980 --> 00:32:23.019 on my side. I did get, I have seen some recent 00:32:23.019 --> 00:32:30.759 filings at the FCC regarding the WRC 27. And 00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:33.059 so this is actually related to what you're talking 00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:35.579 about, and it's about this whole topic. But what 00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:37.819 it looks like to me is that there's some early 00:32:37.819 --> 00:32:42.660 lobbying going on with regards to the ITU's World 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:46.000 Radio Communications Conference next year, 2027. 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.740 And for those not familiar with it, that is the 00:32:48.740 --> 00:32:53.319 international event where all country regulators, 00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:58.700 spectrum regulators, meet at the WRC. meetings 00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:02.539 that are hosted by the ITU and they're held all 00:33:02.539 --> 00:33:05.640 over the world. And the goal of those meetings 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:09.799 is to get onto the same track in terms of spectrum. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.079 Because the goal there is to avoid having 5G 00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:16.579 and this spectrum band in one country and 5G 00:33:16.579 --> 00:33:18.519 in a completely different spectrum band in another 00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:20.819 country. That leads to, that doesn't encourage 00:33:20.819 --> 00:33:22.980 economies of scale. It just makes it really difficult 00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:25.779 to have a global communication system. And so. 00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:30.730 The objective of the ITU and these WRC meetings 00:33:30.730 --> 00:33:33.569 is to basically get everyone on the same page. 00:33:33.849 --> 00:33:35.710 And that's a very common, that's been going on 00:33:35.710 --> 00:33:37.970 for a long time. But the interesting thing here 00:33:37.970 --> 00:33:40.529 is that what we're starting to see from lobbyists 00:33:40.529 --> 00:33:45.049 like the CTIA and the NCTA is they're worried 00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:47.890 about this upcoming meeting next year in November 00:33:47.890 --> 00:33:50.230 of 2027, because it's going to be in Shanghai. 00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:54.319 And so they are saying, and I'll quote some of 00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:57.680 the things, is the CTIA is warning about rivals 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:00.700 like China having an effect here. And then the 00:34:00.700 --> 00:34:04.000 NCTA wrote about the location of the conference 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.519 in Shanghai could deter some stakeholders from 00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.119 undertaking this important work. And they're 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:12.019 warning that, hey, it's because it's in China, 00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:14.380 we need to make sure that China doesn't have 00:34:14.380 --> 00:34:18.710 overt influence on the. goings on at these meetings. 00:34:18.989 --> 00:34:21.849 And I think a lot of what this boils down to 00:34:21.849 --> 00:34:26.110 is the six and seven gigahertz bands. So China 00:34:26.110 --> 00:34:29.050 has allocated the six gigahertz band for cellular 00:34:29.050 --> 00:34:32.789 licensed communications, including 6G. The U 00:34:32.789 --> 00:34:35.630 .S. has not allocated the six gigahertz band 00:34:35.630 --> 00:34:38.929 to 6G. They are keeping the six gigahertz band 00:34:38.929 --> 00:34:42.989 for Wi -Fi. And instead, U .S. regulators want 00:34:42.989 --> 00:34:47.429 to allocate the seven gigahertz band. for 6G. 00:34:47.550 --> 00:34:50.650 And so I think that all of this discussion going 00:34:50.650 --> 00:34:55.610 on right now is mainly related to that discussion, 00:34:55.949 --> 00:34:59.409 whether 6 gigahertz or 7 gigahertz should be 00:34:59.409 --> 00:35:02.289 ground zero for 6G. I expect that probably both 00:35:02.289 --> 00:35:05.150 bands will be used for 6G, but I know that there's 00:35:05.150 --> 00:35:08.050 going to be a lot of negotiation up until this 00:35:08.050 --> 00:35:12.409 WRC meeting in November of 2027 in Shanghai in 00:35:12.409 --> 00:35:14.369 order to get everything straightened out ahead 00:35:14.369 --> 00:35:16.829 of that meeting. The last thing I'll mention 00:35:16.829 --> 00:35:20.969 is that as the 3GPP meets pretty regularly in 00:35:20.969 --> 00:35:24.230 order to develop standards for cellular communications, 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:29.130 including 5G and 6G, the 3GPP just met in Japan. 00:35:29.469 --> 00:35:33.730 And from my... It's real hard to understand all 00:35:33.730 --> 00:35:36.030 the stuff that goes on in the 3GPP. It is a very 00:35:36.030 --> 00:35:39.190 technical organization. But from my little bit 00:35:39.190 --> 00:35:42.170 that I have been able to glean from their recent 00:35:42.170 --> 00:35:46.010 meeting in Japan is that they did, the 3GPP did 00:35:46.010 --> 00:35:49.590 make some decisions on future cellular standards. 00:35:49.769 --> 00:35:53.219 They are looking at the 7 gigahertz band. And 00:35:53.219 --> 00:35:55.420 from what I understand, the latest thinking there 00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.039 is that they'll have up to, I think it's 200 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:00.260 megahertz wide channels or even possibly 400 00:36:00.260 --> 00:36:02.800 megahertz wide channels, which is a crazy amount 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:05.280 of spectrum. But that they're looking at technologies 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.860 working in there. They're looking at full duplexing 00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:10.719 flamework, all kinds of interesting technologies 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:13.199 that they are thinking about for the 6G standard 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:16.460 multi -radio spectrum sharing. So that would 00:36:16.460 --> 00:36:19.739 allow simultaneous 5G and 6G transmissions in 00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:23.219 the 7 gigahertz band. One of the most important 00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:26.760 things that the 3GPP is working on is they're 00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:30.039 working on a C -band grid compatibility for 7 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:33.260 gigahertz, meaning that a network deployment 00:36:33.260 --> 00:36:37.579 in 7 gigahertz would work on the same cell grid 00:36:37.579 --> 00:36:41.300 that has been built for the C -band or 3 .45 00:36:41.300 --> 00:36:44.239 gigahertz. And for network operators, that is 00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.340 an absolutely critical element for all this stuff 00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:49.860 because what they really do not want to do is 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:54.510 build a new... uh cell tower grid for a new spectrum 00:36:54.510 --> 00:36:57.389 band they want to use their existing cell tower 00:36:57.389 --> 00:37:01.449 grid to deploy new technologies and they've already 00:37:01.449 --> 00:37:05.309 built out 5g networks on the c -band grid and 00:37:05.309 --> 00:37:07.690 so if they can reuse that same cell tower grid 00:37:07.690 --> 00:37:11.670 for 6g that undoubtedly that is their objective 00:37:11.670 --> 00:37:14.090 it still means that they would probably to put 00:37:14.090 --> 00:37:17.429 a 7 gigahertz network into operation they would 00:37:17.429 --> 00:37:20.289 still have to invest in that spectrum and in 00:37:20.289 --> 00:37:23.380 new radios in order to broadcast in that band. 00:37:23.539 --> 00:37:26.780 But if they could reuse the same grid, that would 00:37:26.780 --> 00:37:29.500 lower the costs for the lower deployment costs 00:37:29.500 --> 00:37:32.179 for them. So that's a lot of interesting developments, 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.159 right? We've got these sort of these big markers. 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:38.079 We've got 3GPP is working on 6G standards. We've 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.699 got international regulators meeting and trying 00:37:41.699 --> 00:37:44.019 to decide a way forward for most of the world 00:37:44.019 --> 00:37:47.019 at the WRC meetings. And so, I don't know, I'm 00:37:47.019 --> 00:37:50.800 taking all these signals as that there's... forward 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:54.159 movement on 6G standards, 6G spectrum. Like this 00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.900 is the kind of stuff that we watched in the early 00:37:56.900 --> 00:38:00.699 days of 5G. This exact same discussion for 5G, 00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.199 moving into new bands and new technologies for 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:07.019 5G. Same thing was happening again. So no surprises, 00:38:07.099 --> 00:38:09.340 but certainly a signal that things are moving 00:38:09.340 --> 00:38:12.860 forward in terms of spectrum, in terms of regulatory 00:38:12.860 --> 00:38:16.579 sort of unity. So, yeah, it's not a surprise, 00:38:16.659 --> 00:38:18.880 but it's also good to see in terms of if you're 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:21.679 betting on 6G, this is another signal that, yes, 00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:24.519 it's going to happen. I think your whole Chinese 00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:27.179 officials thing is very interesting. I do agree 00:38:27.179 --> 00:38:29.059 that it's most likely about the six gigahertz 00:38:29.059 --> 00:38:32.699 band. I was appalled by China's decision to. 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:38.019 allocate 6 gigahertz for 6G slash 5G only because 00:38:38.019 --> 00:38:42.159 I'm a big Wi -Fi guy as well. And for me, 6 gigahertz 00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.599 was a Wi -Fi band and it enables both Wi -Fi 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.380 6E and Wi -Fi 7 and it's going to enable Wi -Fi 00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:50.800 8. So not having any of that 6 gigahertz spectrum 00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:53.400 is unfortunate because it's much cleaner than 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.199 the 5 gigahertz band is. And God knows we have 00:38:56.199 --> 00:38:58.340 so much interference in the 5 gigahertz, God 00:38:58.340 --> 00:39:03.489 forbid, 2 .4 gigahertz bands. I think we are 00:39:03.489 --> 00:39:06.650 going to see more allocation of spectrum for 00:39:06.650 --> 00:39:09.409 uplink because of AI. And I think there's going 00:39:09.409 --> 00:39:11.670 to be more demand for uplink traffic in general, 00:39:11.769 --> 00:39:14.630 especially if we have on -device AI and we have 00:39:14.630 --> 00:39:16.809 agents running on our phones. So I think that's 00:39:16.809 --> 00:39:18.289 going to be something that makes a lot of sense 00:39:18.289 --> 00:39:21.289 for 6G. And then the other thing was the whole 00:39:21.289 --> 00:39:24.449 site reuse thing. That is 100 % something I saw 00:39:24.449 --> 00:39:27.679 Qualcomm talk about last year. at MWC it was 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:30.019 one of their research projects and it was explicitly 00:39:30.019 --> 00:39:34.880 around enabling seven gigahertz at 3 .5 in terms 00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:37.800 of coverage so that sounds like a very that sounds 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:40.400 like a Qualcomm proposal if you ask me but it 00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:42.719 sounds like something that's necessary if we're 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.019 going to see 6G deploy remotely close to what 00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:49.300 5G can do in terms of footprint because 6G is 00:39:49.300 --> 00:39:51.800 going to be standalone so it's not going to be 00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:55.019 as quickly deployed as 5G was And that might 00:39:55.019 --> 00:39:57.159 actually be a good thing for everybody because 00:39:57.159 --> 00:39:59.920 even to this day, there's still a lot of 5G operators 00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.360 who don't have standalone. And that means that 00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:05.639 they just can't even deliver any of this 5G applications 00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:08.960 that were supposedly promised when 5G was marketed. 00:40:09.139 --> 00:40:11.239 So I think it's important that we have something 00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:13.960 like that enabled. And yeah, I think you're right. 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.739 There's going to be a battleground on six gigahertz. 00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.079 And I think to your point, harmonizing around 00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:21.340 seven gigahertz is going to be important and 00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:24.750 making sure that band. behaves remotely close 00:40:24.750 --> 00:40:27.969 to lower frequencies because i can't imagine 00:40:27.969 --> 00:40:31.389 from my experience six gigahertz does not propagate 00:40:31.389 --> 00:40:34.710 very well so i think seven gigahertz is going 00:40:34.710 --> 00:40:36.969 to be even more of a challenge i'm very interested 00:40:36.969 --> 00:40:39.250 to see if yeah the propagation characteristics 00:40:39.250 --> 00:40:41.969 in seven gigahertz is anywhere near c -band but 00:40:41.969 --> 00:40:43.449 i think there was a lot of questions about the 00:40:43.449 --> 00:40:45.230 propagation characteristics of c -band in those 00:40:45.230 --> 00:40:49.179 early days so i think it remains to be seen I 00:40:49.179 --> 00:40:51.780 personally think C -band still doesn't actually 00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:54.179 propagate as well as some lower frequencies. 00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:57.019 But I would also say that 7 gigahertz is going 00:40:57.019 --> 00:40:59.239 to be interesting because I think to achieve 00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:02.179 that kind of propagation, I think you're going 00:41:02.179 --> 00:41:05.000 to end up having to have AI on both ends of the 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:07.800 connection to make that beamforming and whatever 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:11.260 else, what other techniques, super giga MIMO, 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:13.440 whatever they end up calling it. That's probably 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:15.480 going to have to be a new version of MIMO to 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:18.210 make it possible. and yeah i'm excited to see 00:41:18.210 --> 00:41:21.409 what actually becomes real but i'm not sure we'll 00:41:21.409 --> 00:41:24.030 even know by 2028 it'll be fun to see how it 00:41:24.030 --> 00:41:26.849 shakes out and yeah i think we're in very interesting 00:41:26.849 --> 00:41:29.530 times right now yeah yeah we'll see stay tuned 00:41:29.530 --> 00:41:31.969 definitely and i think that helps us wrap up 00:41:31.969 --> 00:41:35.230 longer longer podcast we hope our viewers and 00:41:35.230 --> 00:41:36.949 listeners found this week's topics interesting 00:41:36.949 --> 00:41:40.210 and please don't forget to reach out to us if 00:41:40.210 --> 00:41:42.570 you have any recommendations for a future podcast 00:41:42.570 --> 00:41:46.769 and also please rate us and subscribe. We're 00:41:46.769 --> 00:41:49.429 on all the platforms. You can find us on YouTube 00:41:49.429 --> 00:41:52.829 and any regular popular podcasting platform. 00:41:53.389 --> 00:41:56.510 All you need to do is find us at 6G Podcast and 00:41:56.510 --> 00:41:58.809 we'll probably be at the top. Thanks again for 00:41:58.809 --> 00:42:00.730 listening. And Mike, thanks again for joining 00:42:00.730 --> 00:42:02.429 me. Thanks a bunch. See you later.