WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.480 Welcome to episode 238 of the G2 on 5G. It's 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.440 the latest Insight Scoop on everything 5G and 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:09.839 6G. We cover six topics in about 20 minutes, 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:11.400 and it's brought to you by Moore Insights and 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:13.720 Strategy. I'm Will Townsend, and joining me again 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:16.739 this week is fellow analyst Anshul Saag. Let's 00:00:16.739 --> 00:00:18.820 get started, my friend, with my first topic, 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:21.640 and I want to talk about AST Space Mobile. I've 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:25.839 actually got a low Earth orbit. satellite -themed 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:28.399 set of topics this week. But I'm going to start 00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:32.299 first with AST. And news has broke that they 00:00:32.299 --> 00:00:35.179 have conducted the first space -based 4G VoLTE 00:00:35.179 --> 00:00:38.899 call with Bell Canada. This includes voice, it 00:00:38.899 --> 00:00:43.479 includes broadband, data connectivity, and video 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:46.600 streaming. And you and I have talked about AST 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:50.799 on many episodes of our podcast. They've had 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:53.500 some delays in launching their production satellites. 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:56.299 They've got line of sight to that now. I shared 00:00:56.299 --> 00:00:59.579 some details earlier this week or last week about 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:03.640 that. But this is another great example of their 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.400 tech stack, number one. And number two, this 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.799 just paves the way to production and monetization 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:13.879 from my standpoint. So what do you think about 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:15.560 all that, my friend? I think it's an interesting 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:19.000 expansion of their capabilities. And it makes 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:21.959 sense when you consider how rural Canada is. 00:01:22.060 --> 00:01:24.099 It actually makes even more sense in the United 00:01:24.099 --> 00:01:26.620 States. So, yeah, I think it's a good move and 00:01:26.620 --> 00:01:28.439 they have such good partnerships around the world 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:31.200 that it makes total sense. Yeah, for sure. And 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.019 you're absolutely right about Canada. What's 00:01:33.019 --> 00:01:36.420 really interesting, you have these like wide 00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:39.920 expanses in between several clusters of very 00:01:39.920 --> 00:01:42.099 highly populated cities. I think this is going 00:01:42.099 --> 00:01:45.739 to be transformative with respect to. coverage 00:01:45.739 --> 00:01:49.200 gaps and that sort of thing in Canada. But it'll 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:52.140 be fun to watch for sure. But hey, let's go to 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:54.079 your first topic. And I know that you are hanging 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:57.200 out in Hawaii. It's your annual rite of passage, 00:01:57.299 --> 00:02:00.599 right? Qualcomm Snapdragon Summit. And I was 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:02.560 paying attention to your live tweets and all 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:04.840 of that. There was quite a bit that was announced 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:09.879 this year, right? Yeah, it was quite a big summit 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:12.199 this year. There's a lot to talk about, so I'm 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:13.960 going to make it as fast as I can because it 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:15.900 would take up the whole podcast if I just drum 00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:19.580 it on. Basically, they launched two new SoCs, 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:22.719 one for smartphones, one for PCs. Both of them 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:25.379 use the third generation Orion custom processor 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:28.759 that they created in -house, which is ARMv9 compatible. 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:32.240 And it's really interesting because that CPU, 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.879 both in mobile and on PC, is the fastest CPU. 00:02:36.650 --> 00:02:39.849 in the respective markets for arm so it's faster 00:02:39.849 --> 00:02:42.830 than apple and i did some benchmarks and their 00:02:42.830 --> 00:02:47.030 soc for mobile is faster than apple's latest 00:02:47.030 --> 00:02:50.280 a19 Pro, which I have in front of me, both in 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:52.719 the iPhone Air, which I didn't have a visual 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.000 representation of before, but I do now. And then 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:57.939 on top of that, the X2, so it's a Snapdragon 00:02:57.939 --> 00:03:01.159 X2 Elite, which is for PCs. And that's a five 00:03:01.159 --> 00:03:03.259 gigahertz mobile processor, which is a big deal 00:03:03.259 --> 00:03:05.199 as well, because that's way faster than anything 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.979 Apple has. Competitively, it's faster than an 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:11.409 M4, but it's about... on par with an m4 pro which 00:03:11.409 --> 00:03:13.830 is really impressive when you consider how capable 00:03:13.830 --> 00:03:15.590 apple is and how long they've been doing this 00:03:15.590 --> 00:03:18.710 in addition to that the pc parts have a built 00:03:18.710 --> 00:03:22.909 -in modem it's a i believe it's a 4g modem and 00:03:22.909 --> 00:03:25.710 it's called guardian and it's actually for remote 00:03:25.710 --> 00:03:29.469 like access to the pc so even if the pc is turned 00:03:29.469 --> 00:03:32.849 off and you're like an it person you can actually 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:35.949 manage turn on the pc remotely through a highly 00:03:35.949 --> 00:03:39.000 secure component so it's designed so it's a very 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:41.780 secure enclave so you can like remotely manage 00:03:41.780 --> 00:03:44.319 your pcs for your infrastructure that's a really 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.379 interesting unique feature and there's multiple 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:48.400 ways of implementing it but if you have a modem 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:51.120 built into the pc that's the easiest way and 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:54.620 there will be 5g modems for both devices interestingly 00:03:54.620 --> 00:03:58.300 enough the x85 for the snapdragon 8 elite gen 00:03:58.300 --> 00:04:00.979 5 which is the full mobile soc name and then 00:04:00.979 --> 00:04:05.819 a snapdragon x75 for the for the pc part because 00:04:05.819 --> 00:04:08.259 there's less demand for the ultimate high -end 00:04:08.259 --> 00:04:12.180 5g modem in pcs you can use the x85 in both but 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:14.199 they expect that most people won't be using their 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:16.740 most high -end 5g modem and then on top of all 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:21.139 that qualcomm's ceo said on stage that they expect 00:04:21.139 --> 00:04:25.259 to have pre -commercial 6g devices in 2020 as 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:29.939 early as 2028 which i take to mean probably some 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:34.139 kind of prototypes but working ones, and most 00:04:34.139 --> 00:04:38.279 likely be aligned with the Olympics, which happened 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:40.379 with 5G, if you remember. I have a feeling we'll 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:44.459 get some 6G demos and some 6G trials in LA, and 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:46.560 they're probably already planning for them. Yeah. 00:04:46.860 --> 00:04:49.180 Hey, the Guardian thing is really interesting. 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:51.519 That's silicon, right? That's like blue to trots. 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:53.939 Is that how they're implementing that? Yeah, 00:04:53.980 --> 00:04:58.459 so Guardian is going to be hard built into the 00:04:58.459 --> 00:05:02.019 SOC. It is for security and management. It was 00:05:02.019 --> 00:05:05.560 probably one of the least talked about things, 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:07.639 but there's actually a lot of detail about it 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:09.819 because there's so many components of the SoC 00:05:09.819 --> 00:05:13.199 that you can really like take advantage of it. 00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:15.339 Really, I think at the enterprise, but even at 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:18.079 the consumer level, you could be a consumer who 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:22.050 needs remote. locate and wipe and lock. And those 00:05:22.050 --> 00:05:23.970 are all things you could do on your PC that you 00:05:23.970 --> 00:05:26.149 previously couldn't. And then you could also 00:05:26.149 --> 00:05:27.889 have that as another layer of theft protection 00:05:27.889 --> 00:05:30.689 because you can lock your PC basically anytime. 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:34.750 And yeah, I just think that there's a good opportunity 00:05:34.750 --> 00:05:39.290 to move, move management towards a cellular based 00:05:39.290 --> 00:05:43.589 experience. Yeah, no, I agree. And it's just, 00:05:43.610 --> 00:05:46.029 it's impressive how Qualcomm continues to raise 00:05:46.029 --> 00:05:49.050 the bar. and integrate new features and this 00:05:49.050 --> 00:05:51.370 is something new so i was surprised to learn 00:05:51.370 --> 00:05:53.889 about it myself and i'll be digging into it a 00:05:53.889 --> 00:05:56.050 little bit further because it crosses my coverage 00:05:56.050 --> 00:05:59.089 area as well you typically cover security on 00:05:59.089 --> 00:06:01.129 in devices and i cover more of the infrastructure 00:06:01.129 --> 00:06:04.009 side of things but i love that feature and i 00:06:04.009 --> 00:06:06.449 think that's going to be really obviously advantageous 00:06:06.449 --> 00:06:09.129 and obviously in corporate environments where 00:06:09.129 --> 00:06:12.209 IT staffs have to be able to manage devices, 00:06:12.589 --> 00:06:15.050 not only smartphones, but PCs. So good stuff, 00:06:15.089 --> 00:06:17.750 my friend. Let's go to my second topic, and I'm 00:06:17.750 --> 00:06:19.870 going to stick to the low Earth orbit satellite 00:06:19.870 --> 00:06:22.209 theme. I want to talk about T -Mobile, and they 00:06:22.209 --> 00:06:25.149 had an official announcement today around T -Satellite. 00:06:25.269 --> 00:06:27.529 We talked about T -Satellite when they launched 00:06:27.529 --> 00:06:30.810 it in production. Now, very quickly after that 00:06:30.810 --> 00:06:33.689 initial launch, they have basically announced 00:06:33.689 --> 00:06:37.800 app support. for that service with Starlink. 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.120 And they're focused on, it's not, it's not the 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:44.540 entire app ecosystem, but it's covering their 00:06:44.540 --> 00:06:47.000 T -Life app, which is something that I use to 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.540 manage my FWA service within my home in Bastrop. 00:06:50.660 --> 00:06:53.839 But we've also got some really interesting solutions, 00:06:54.060 --> 00:06:57.420 some app solutions that they're supporting. AllTrails, 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:00.620 which is exactly what it sounds like. It's for 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:05.540 hikers, cyclists, runners. And it maps in over 00:07:05.540 --> 00:07:08.939 500 ,000 trails around the world. AccuWeather, 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:10.639 we're all concerned about the weather and what 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:12.139 we're going to wear when we step out the door. 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:15.399 AccuWeather is going to get support. And there 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.879 are a number of other solutions, including WhatsApp 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:20.980 and even X as well. This is pretty impressive. 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.480 And so it's definitely taking the usability for 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:29.259 SOS and emergencies to new levels. And it's quite 00:07:29.259 --> 00:07:32.060 impressive. They continue to keep the pace going 00:07:32.060 --> 00:07:35.519 with respect to their T -Satellite service and 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:37.839 what they're doing. And we're going to begin, 00:07:38.060 --> 00:07:41.319 I think, to see future expansion into first responder 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:45.160 and other use cases. But you're an app guy. What 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:46.540 do you think about all this? Is this going to 00:07:46.540 --> 00:07:48.699 move the needle? Is this going to be compelling 00:07:48.699 --> 00:07:52.480 for T -Mobile? I think so. I think the problem 00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:54.819 is it's still fundamentally a niche service. 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:57.259 Right. Because there's just not that many people 00:07:57.259 --> 00:08:00.139 who are... regularly going into places without 00:08:00.139 --> 00:08:02.720 service. So there's definitely a certain type 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:04.879 of person who will benefit from this. But I think 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.639 ultimately, a lot of these things are very situational 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.300 and month to month almost. So I think there's 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:15.060 some really good benefits to it. But I think 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:18.779 that the problem is that you have to really live 00:08:18.779 --> 00:08:20.800 in these places. And the truth is, living in 00:08:20.800 --> 00:08:22.759 these places, there's not that many people. But 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.470 I think people who... are regularly outdoors. 00:08:25.769 --> 00:08:29.449 These are great apps, great services. But I think 00:08:29.449 --> 00:08:31.629 they also have to do marketing for awareness. 00:08:31.949 --> 00:08:34.149 So when people are out of service, that they 00:08:34.149 --> 00:08:35.649 know that this is something that they can rely 00:08:35.649 --> 00:08:38.490 on. And that's a marketing problem. But ultimately, 00:08:38.570 --> 00:08:41.549 I think satellite for smartphones is still pretty 00:08:41.549 --> 00:08:45.090 limited. Yeah, it is. And this is just the start, 00:08:45.149 --> 00:08:48.450 I think, of what's to come. But it's quite compelling 00:08:48.450 --> 00:08:50.590 from my perspective. Yeah, good stuff there. 00:08:50.769 --> 00:08:53.009 Let's shift to your second topic. And you want 00:08:53.009 --> 00:08:55.870 to provide an update on MediaTek and a new Dimensity 00:08:55.870 --> 00:09:00.450 solution. Yeah. So in addition to Qualcomm Snapdragon 00:09:00.450 --> 00:09:04.570 Summit, we also got new mobile SOCs from MediaTek, 00:09:04.570 --> 00:09:08.269 specifically the Dimensity 9500. This was their 00:09:08.269 --> 00:09:12.389 new flagship part. And they already... announced 00:09:12.389 --> 00:09:14.370 a bunch of OEMs who are going to take advantage 00:09:14.370 --> 00:09:17.549 of it. This one uses the latest IP from Arm. 00:09:17.690 --> 00:09:20.690 So this is a new Arm IP that was announced a 00:09:20.690 --> 00:09:24.850 few weeks ago. And that IP is new CPU that's 00:09:24.850 --> 00:09:28.090 called the C1. And then there's the G1, which 00:09:28.090 --> 00:09:30.789 is the GPU. And so basically it takes all the 00:09:30.789 --> 00:09:33.710 highest and newest capabilities from both those 00:09:33.710 --> 00:09:37.289 companies and leverages them effectively. And 00:09:37.289 --> 00:09:40.250 it's a new SoC, so it's going to be fast in a 00:09:40.250 --> 00:09:44.029 lot of ways. And it's going to allow for better 00:09:44.029 --> 00:09:48.309 performance, lower power efficiency, or better 00:09:48.309 --> 00:09:50.350 power efficiency, lower power, better ray tracing. 00:09:50.429 --> 00:09:51.909 They said it doubled the ray tracing capabilities. 00:09:52.330 --> 00:09:55.269 And MediaTek also implemented their own NPU in 00:09:55.269 --> 00:09:57.509 there, which is a very high performance, but 00:09:57.509 --> 00:10:00.210 also low power NPU. So they're really looking 00:10:00.210 --> 00:10:05.090 at trying to level up a lot of the flagship offerings 00:10:05.090 --> 00:10:07.309 that they have currently in the US flagship. 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:10.110 MediaTek processors are only in the Samsung Galaxy 00:10:10.110 --> 00:10:13.590 tabs. But abroad in China, a lot of the Oppo, 00:10:13.590 --> 00:10:16.789 Vivo, Xiaomi's like to use MediaTek processors 00:10:16.789 --> 00:10:19.830 in their flagship phones. And yeah, I think they're 00:10:19.830 --> 00:10:21.950 going to be very competitive with what Qualcomm 00:10:21.950 --> 00:10:23.529 has, but I'm not sure they're actually going 00:10:23.529 --> 00:10:26.610 to be able to surpass them, which is fine. They're 00:10:26.610 --> 00:10:28.450 always chasing each other and trying to outdo 00:10:28.450 --> 00:10:31.950 one another. And yeah, I think there's a lot 00:10:31.950 --> 00:10:35.610 of room for MediaTek and Qualcomm to compete 00:10:35.610 --> 00:10:38.399 with one another. offer the best that's available 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:41.519 for android yeah they updated the 5g modem too 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.659 oh okay that makes sense yeah mediatek's always 00:10:44.659 --> 00:10:47.159 been the fast follower to qualcomm and for many 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:49.940 years they were positioned as a value play to 00:10:49.940 --> 00:10:51.799 qualcomm let me ask you this so when you look 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:54.659 at the current roadmaps for qualcomm and mediatek 00:10:54.659 --> 00:10:58.080 i mean from a performance standpoint qualcomm 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.419 continues to push the envelope but is is mediatek 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:03.360 gaining ground what's the difference here in 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:08.500 performance I think that it's still double digits. 00:11:08.940 --> 00:11:11.720 You're still looking to 20, 30 % for both CPU 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:14.600 and GPU. But the truth is that Qualcomm is doing 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:17.700 the same thing. Apple's making lots of improvements 00:11:17.700 --> 00:11:21.879 as well. I will say, if anything, these Android 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:25.220 guys are catching up to Apple. I think based 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:27.720 on the performance that I saw, Qualcomm has effectively 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:31.159 caught up or beat Apple. But MediaTek isn't quite 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.279 there, but they're close. And I think that's 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.929 a real... interesting reality is that Android 00:11:36.929 --> 00:11:39.269 SoCs are becoming much more competitive. Yeah. 00:11:39.610 --> 00:11:42.250 And when you look at the Android ecosystem as 00:11:42.250 --> 00:11:44.049 well, in my experience, I mean, I've been an 00:11:44.049 --> 00:11:46.629 iPhone user for years. I think at one point I 00:11:46.629 --> 00:11:49.070 did flip back to Android, but then I went back 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:53.049 to iOS because my home automation stuff just 00:11:53.049 --> 00:11:55.990 works well. I like the user interface. In fact, 00:11:56.070 --> 00:12:00.730 I picked up an iPhone Air. So it's my first week 00:12:00.730 --> 00:12:03.269 with it. I'm loving it. I just, the UI and the 00:12:03.269 --> 00:12:05.769 ecosystem is super compelling. The one knock, 00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:07.350 and I knew this because I was talking to you 00:12:07.350 --> 00:12:09.049 about it because I was debating, because I was 00:12:09.049 --> 00:12:11.769 moving from the 15 Pro Max and I was debating 00:12:11.769 --> 00:12:14.950 between the 17 Pro Max and the Air. And it's 00:12:14.950 --> 00:12:17.269 the battery life. And certainly the battery is 00:12:17.269 --> 00:12:21.149 small capacity on the Air, but I'm loving the 00:12:21.149 --> 00:12:23.250 lightweight. I'm loving the design. I'm not currently 00:12:23.250 --> 00:12:25.809 using a case with it. I don't know if that's 00:12:25.809 --> 00:12:27.970 smart because I can be clumsy sometimes, but 00:12:27.970 --> 00:12:30.129 what's been your experience with the iPhone Air 00:12:30.129 --> 00:12:32.710 since we're on the subject? It's been pretty 00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:35.210 good. We'll say because it's not my primary smartphone, 00:12:35.529 --> 00:12:38.570 I can't really make an assessment on the battery 00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:41.009 life, but I was actually impressed that the performance 00:12:41.009 --> 00:12:43.389 when I benchmarked it against the iPhone 17 Pro, 00:12:43.570 --> 00:12:47.330 almost identical. It's a few percentage points 00:12:47.330 --> 00:12:48.889 difference. I don't feel like you're sacrificing 00:12:48.889 --> 00:12:51.610 that much on performance with the Air, but you 00:12:51.610 --> 00:12:54.480 might be on battery life. I haven't done a 5G 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:58.019 comparison across both devices, but I have a 00:12:58.019 --> 00:12:59.779 feeling that the iPhone Pro is probably going 00:12:59.779 --> 00:13:02.340 to have a faster modem. Yeah, my experience, 00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:04.279 definitely I noticed a difference in battery 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:07.659 life. So I've ordered a slim, massive battery 00:13:07.659 --> 00:13:10.379 to carry with me when I travel because I don't 00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:12.600 want to put a big, thick battery on this beautiful 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.700 phone. And I thought the half an inch smaller 00:13:15.700 --> 00:13:19.149 screen would be an issue, but... But it's not 00:13:19.149 --> 00:13:22.110 really affecting my productivity. So I'm a total 00:13:22.110 --> 00:13:24.149 fan. We'll see. I'm still in my honeymoon. It's 00:13:24.149 --> 00:13:26.850 just a weekend. But so far, I'm impressed. And 00:13:26.850 --> 00:13:29.730 it's also great to hear that companies like MediaTek 00:13:29.730 --> 00:13:32.830 and Qualcomm are raising the bar on performance 00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:35.629 and getting to that Apple level and, in some 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:38.610 instances, exceeding that level as well. So it's 00:13:38.610 --> 00:13:40.710 just great. It's raising the bar in performance 00:13:40.710 --> 00:13:43.889 for any user, whether you're iOS or you're Android. 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:48.179 But hey, with my third topic, I want to talk 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:50.159 about something that I found pretty interesting. 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.039 There are a couple of articles written this week 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:57.139 about China and how China is now using that in 00:13:57.139 --> 00:13:58.940 the name of national security. They're using 00:13:58.940 --> 00:14:02.700 some security controls to block Ericsson and 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:04.179 Nokia. And this has been a trend that's been 00:14:04.179 --> 00:14:07.419 going on for quite some time. when all of the 00:14:07.419 --> 00:14:09.820 rip and replace of chinese infrastructure began 00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:12.399 however many years ago that was four or five 00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:14.360 years ago and something that you and i have talked 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.080 about quite a bit on this podcast china slowly 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.000 when you look at when you looked at nokia's and 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.340 ericsson's market share just even four years 00:14:22.340 --> 00:14:25.639 ago i think in the china market it was 12 to 00:14:25.639 --> 00:14:29.399 14 on average today it's four percent so it's 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:31.799 been shrinking dramatically and these articles 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.919 that broke i found one on business standard talks 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.389 about how What China is doing is for foreign 00:14:38.389 --> 00:14:40.110 infrastructure providers, they're putting them 00:14:40.110 --> 00:14:43.389 through these very rigorous certifications and 00:14:43.389 --> 00:14:47.009 security testing. What we saw other countries 00:14:47.009 --> 00:14:49.850 doing with Chinese infrastructure, and obviously 00:14:49.850 --> 00:14:53.149 that's only on foreign infrastructure. It's not 00:14:53.149 --> 00:14:56.450 a requirement with Huawei or ZTE. And what that 00:14:56.450 --> 00:14:59.450 does is it's created three to four month windows 00:14:59.450 --> 00:15:02.309 of certification that are slowing their progress. 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:05.139 A lot of times these infrastructure providers 00:15:05.139 --> 00:15:08.500 aren't even providing the full kit portfolio 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:10.639 out of fear that they'll spend all that time 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:12.539 and all that effort. And there's probably dollars 00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:15.100 attached to that as well. And then there's no 00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:17.860 certification. So I just thought it was interesting 00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:20.100 to bring this up as a topic because it's like 00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:23.500 now China is doing to the West what the West 00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:26.179 did to it with all this rip and replace. So I 00:15:26.179 --> 00:15:27.620 don't know if you've caught any of the articles 00:15:27.620 --> 00:15:31.039 this week, but I'm not surprised. Are you surprised? 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:36.700 No, not in the slightest. But I will say, I love 00:15:36.700 --> 00:15:40.279 me some geopolitics. I know you do. Thanks for 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:42.899 the softball. I'm not talking about baseball 00:15:42.899 --> 00:15:46.220 now. But I really think it's a big deal, to be 00:15:46.220 --> 00:15:48.460 honest with you. The Chinese market has always 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.019 been a homegrown market. It has been for probably 00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:55.139 the last 10 years, if not longer now. So while 00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:58.539 I think that this is very much tit for tat. Realistically, 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.639 I don't think Nokia or Ericsson are particularly 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:06.320 surprised or upset or expecting much. I'm surprised 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.879 that they're shipping anything in China, to be 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:11.860 honest with you, considering Huawei and ZTE and 00:16:11.860 --> 00:16:15.039 their role there. I don't know. I think, if anything, 00:16:15.580 --> 00:16:17.899 the Chinese carriers would want to have more 00:16:17.899 --> 00:16:20.120 choices so that they could get better pricing 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:23.419 from Huawei and ZTE if that's possible. But generally 00:16:23.419 --> 00:16:26.779 speaking, this is more like of a paper. thing 00:16:26.779 --> 00:16:29.860 than real business impact in my eyes. Yeah. Yeah. 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:31.639 When you look at their market share in four years 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.940 ago, 12 to 14%, that's not a, that's not a big 00:16:34.940 --> 00:16:37.840 piece of their tab. Right. And now it's four. 00:16:37.980 --> 00:16:41.110 So. yeah it's just interesting tit for tat we 00:16:41.110 --> 00:16:42.769 live in an interesting world these days with 00:16:42.769 --> 00:16:45.590 geopolitics not only within tech but other areas 00:16:45.590 --> 00:16:50.090 as well but yeah totally but hey so you for your 00:16:50.090 --> 00:16:53.149 third and final topic this is pretty big news 00:16:53.149 --> 00:16:55.049 and i caught it as well and i know that you've 00:16:55.049 --> 00:16:57.269 had some journalists and bound into you about 00:16:57.269 --> 00:17:00.570 this but arm and qualcomm there was a lawsuit 00:17:00.570 --> 00:17:03.590 that was settled but the battle continues right 00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:08.109 yeah so this Is this the battle that refuses 00:17:08.109 --> 00:17:12.190 to end? As most big legal battles do, I would 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:13.950 say most of them end up in a settlement of some 00:17:13.950 --> 00:17:16.690 kind. Yeah. But there's something different about 00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:21.430 this case. And the truth is Qualcomm ended up 00:17:21.430 --> 00:17:24.029 looking pretty victorious late last year, where 00:17:24.029 --> 00:17:26.589 two of the three, they were victorious in two 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:28.490 out of the three counts against them that were 00:17:28.490 --> 00:17:31.529 levied by arm. And the third one was settled 00:17:31.529 --> 00:17:34.289 this week by the judge saying that Qualcomm. 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:36.839 Actually, their subsidiary, Anuvia, who they 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.559 bought, was not in breach of contract. But the 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.400 thing is that, one, ARM has already appealed 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:46.140 or says that they've appealed this verdict because, 00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:49.059 okay, they believe that they can do that. But 00:17:49.059 --> 00:17:53.319 also, Qualcomm does have another lawsuit that 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.000 they filed against ARM in the middle of last 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:01.099 year pertaining to this whole contract and licensing 00:18:01.099 --> 00:18:04.200 dispute. I do not have an update on that lawsuit. 00:18:04.700 --> 00:18:08.559 But that is very much so in movement. So I believe 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:11.460 that this is a combination of Arm not giving 00:18:11.460 --> 00:18:14.579 up and Qualcomm not giving up either. Because 00:18:14.579 --> 00:18:16.240 I really thought Qualcomm would drop their lawsuit 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.319 once the Arm thing against them had been settled. 00:18:19.539 --> 00:18:22.259 Clearly, they're choosing to keep this legal 00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:25.460 dispute going. And truthfully, I was really hoping 00:18:25.460 --> 00:18:27.180 that the two companies would bury the hatchet 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:29.779 once this was over. But clearly, they haven't. 00:18:31.109 --> 00:18:32.789 I don't really think it's going to work out for 00:18:32.789 --> 00:18:35.250 ARM, to be perfectly honest with you. And I think 00:18:35.250 --> 00:18:38.490 ultimately it's a net negative for everyone, 00:18:38.589 --> 00:18:41.549 for this dispute to continue. But I think that 00:18:41.549 --> 00:18:44.910 this is more about something more than just IP. 00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:47.650 And I can't really put my finger on it because 00:18:47.650 --> 00:18:51.910 we don't have all the facts. We all have only 00:18:51.910 --> 00:18:54.609 the facts that have been... public knowledge 00:18:54.609 --> 00:18:57.369 yeah i mean there's there's just really bad blood 00:18:57.369 --> 00:18:59.690 between these two companies right yeah someone 00:18:59.690 --> 00:19:03.890 else's mother like a nasty name or something 00:19:03.890 --> 00:19:05.890 there there's something more to this to your 00:19:05.890 --> 00:19:08.609 point than just the intellectual property and 00:19:08.609 --> 00:19:11.349 what all depends from a licensing perspective 00:19:11.349 --> 00:19:15.369 with exactly i would say there's something personal 00:19:15.369 --> 00:19:17.990 right and the truth is that i don't think it's 00:19:17.990 --> 00:19:19.890 good for either company and i really hope that 00:19:19.890 --> 00:19:23.720 it's just ends fairly soon. But yeah, in general, 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:27.039 I think that there's no real good outcome for 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:28.599 this. And I was really hoping that they would 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:30.759 settle and they haven't. Yeah, it didn't really. 00:19:30.819 --> 00:19:34.019 I wish I had more answers. But the truth is, 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.900 I think this just needs to go away. And I think 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:38.519 that's everyone's and everyone's best interest. 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.519 It's just a distraction. And it's both companies 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.980 are paying attorneys gobs of money to keep lawyers 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:47.519 win. Yeah. Hey, my friend, it's been another 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.960 great podcast. Why don't you take us home? Absolutely. 00:19:50.980 --> 00:19:52.839 We hope our viewers and listeners found this 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:54.859 week's topics interesting. If anyone out there 00:19:54.859 --> 00:19:56.279 would like to provide insights on a specific 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.519 5G topic for a future podcast, please reach out 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.079 to us on social media. Will is at WillTownTech 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:04.940 and I'm at Anshul Saag. We hope you have a great 00:20:04.940 --> 00:20:07.319 weekend and please tune in again next week. And 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:08.599 don't forget to rate and subscribe.