WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.219 Welcome to episode 235 of the G2 on 5G. It's 00:00:04.219 --> 00:00:06.679 the latest Insight Scoop on everything 5G. We 00:00:06.679 --> 00:00:08.800 cover six topics in about 20 minutes, and it's 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:10.160 brought to you by More Insights and Strategy. 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.199 I'm Will Townsend, and joining me again this 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.500 week is fellow analyst Anshul Sag. Let's get 00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:18.600 started with my first topic, and I know you're 00:00:18.600 --> 00:00:20.440 going to have a lot to add to this as well, Anshul, 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:23.859 but you and I were with T -Mobile for the last 00:00:23.859 --> 00:00:26.640 two days in Bellevue. There was an innovation 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.019 summit. There was an analyst forum and there 00:00:29.019 --> 00:00:30.899 was a big announcement. So I want to cover that 00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:32.759 and I want to get your perspective on things 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.719 as well. So the Innovation Summit followed on 00:00:35.719 --> 00:00:39.359 the heels of a T -Mobile town hall. There were 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:42.259 some executive announcements that dropped this 00:00:42.259 --> 00:00:46.079 week. So Ulf, and I can't even pronounce his 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:49.520 last name, but he replaced Neville Ray as president 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.619 of technology at T -Mobile. He announced his 00:00:52.619 --> 00:00:55.780 retirement. And then a shock to me, Callie Field 00:00:55.780 --> 00:00:58.920 that leads T -Mobile for business announced that 00:00:58.920 --> 00:01:01.240 she's departing the company, had a chance to 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:03.659 spend some time with Callie. She's done a fantastic 00:01:03.659 --> 00:01:07.359 job taking what the company has done from a business 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:11.400 perspective, from access to a set of highly differentiated 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.040 services that you and I have covered on multiple 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:15.920 podcasts. And we're going to talk a little bit 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:19.000 more about some additional insights that we gleaned 00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.120 from the analyst forum that we also attended. 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:25.799 But from my perspective, there was one big announcement 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:27.900 that I thought was just, from my perspective, 00:01:28.019 --> 00:01:31.819 very compelling, super mobile. And it's funny, 00:01:31.900 --> 00:01:33.900 we were able to talk to executives and this was 00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:36.579 not tied to the recent Superman movie that dropped. 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:40.459 But what super mobile is a set, they're bundling 00:01:40.459 --> 00:01:43.719 basically three things. One, and this is for 00:01:43.719 --> 00:01:46.959 enterprises. One, there's now a dedicated slice 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.299 for deterministic connectivity. for mobile users 00:01:51.299 --> 00:01:53.819 on their business plan. So this is a smartphone 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:58.480 enabled solution. They are also bundling T -Satellite 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.599 because that is now in production. We're going 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:03.319 to talk more about T -Satellite as well. And 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.379 then finally, there are a number of security 00:02:05.379 --> 00:02:08.219 enhancements, including a threat intelligence 00:02:08.219 --> 00:02:11.819 integration. And the details on the security 00:02:11.819 --> 00:02:13.639 piece were lacking. I got some feedback that 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:17.719 I did provide Mo Cabot, that is T -Mobile's CMO. 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:20.060 You and I had an opportunity to spend time with 00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:23.180 Mo and others. But at a very high level, I really 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:25.199 like what T -Mobile is doing with Supermobile. 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:27.960 They are leaning into their nationwide standalone 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:30.479 network. They're doing innovative things with 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:33.080 slicing. They've already done T -Priority for 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:35.900 first responders. And what's really cool about 00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:39.620 this is that this bubbled up from actual customer 00:02:39.620 --> 00:02:41.860 requests. They're T -Mobile for business customers. 00:02:42.490 --> 00:02:44.830 have seen T -Mobile, the T priority solution 00:02:44.830 --> 00:02:47.289 and market, and they wanted something that was 00:02:47.289 --> 00:02:50.189 focused on enterprise. And so I love that. And 00:02:50.189 --> 00:02:52.490 that really reinforces the fact that T -Mobile 00:02:52.490 --> 00:02:56.069 listens to its subscribers and develop solutions 00:02:56.069 --> 00:03:00.150 that are relevant and noteworthy for for their 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:02.990 customers as well. So I know I covered that really 00:03:02.990 --> 00:03:05.490 quickly. The other thing I'll add before I allow 00:03:05.490 --> 00:03:09.009 you to provide your insights. We had time with 00:03:09.009 --> 00:03:11.469 an executive that is leading the roadmap development 00:03:11.469 --> 00:03:15.569 efforts for TFB. And much of that was under nondisclosure. 00:03:15.770 --> 00:03:17.550 So unfortunately, we can't provide a lot of those 00:03:17.550 --> 00:03:21.289 details. But from my perspective, the company 00:03:21.289 --> 00:03:23.930 is really doubling down. They're leveraging their 00:03:23.930 --> 00:03:27.129 investment in their network. And there are going 00:03:27.129 --> 00:03:30.469 to be some very innovative solutions that, again, 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:33.389 move beyond access that are going to really address 00:03:33.389 --> 00:03:37.180 things like customer experience, security. and 00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:39.879 just overall business need. I didn't want to 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:41.560 steal any of your thunder. I probably stole a 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:43.400 little bit of your thunder, but what do you think 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:45.020 about all that? Let's start from the beginning. 00:03:45.500 --> 00:03:50.120 I'll say Ulf's last name is Evoldson. Good. Thank 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:54.919 you. Thank you. He came to T -Mobile from Ericsson, 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:57.500 and he's being replaced by our friend John Saw. 00:03:58.009 --> 00:04:00.669 Which I do think is, I thought it was very curious 00:04:00.669 --> 00:04:02.930 because they have very similar skill sets. And 00:04:02.930 --> 00:04:05.289 John was brought on from Sprint. So I've known 00:04:05.289 --> 00:04:07.969 him back when he was at Sprint. And he comes 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:09.930 with a lot of really good experience and knowledge. 00:04:10.169 --> 00:04:13.030 I worked with him on the L4S announcement. And 00:04:13.030 --> 00:04:15.629 yeah, I think Ulf will be missed, but I think 00:04:15.629 --> 00:04:18.689 John is a good replacement. On the Kali side 00:04:18.689 --> 00:04:21.470 of things, I also don't really fully understand 00:04:21.470 --> 00:04:23.209 that because she's very much loved within the 00:04:23.209 --> 00:04:26.230 organization. But they are restructuring. how 00:04:26.230 --> 00:04:29.430 the company is being organized. And I believe 00:04:29.430 --> 00:04:34.329 that it is a bit of a Deutsche Telekom takeover 00:04:34.329 --> 00:04:36.509 in a way. There are more and more executives 00:04:36.509 --> 00:04:39.610 coming from Deutsche Telekom to lead T -Mobile, 00:04:39.790 --> 00:04:43.089 which I don't really know how I feel about, but 00:04:43.089 --> 00:04:45.649 that's, Deutsche Telekom is the largest shareholder 00:04:45.649 --> 00:04:48.069 and they've had a majority stake in the company 00:04:48.069 --> 00:04:50.189 for quite some time. I don't believe they have 00:04:50.189 --> 00:04:54.209 a majority stake anymore, but they do. have significant 00:04:54.209 --> 00:04:56.709 influence in the company's operations. So that 00:04:56.709 --> 00:04:59.290 seems to be what's happening in my belief that 00:04:59.290 --> 00:05:01.649 this is more of a bit of more of a Deutsche Telekom 00:05:01.649 --> 00:05:05.410 influence operation. And yeah, I think overall, 00:05:05.610 --> 00:05:07.350 I think super mobiles are really interesting 00:05:07.350 --> 00:05:10.470 offering. And I think that it will, to your point, 00:05:10.529 --> 00:05:13.649 it's basically T priority, but for non first 00:05:13.649 --> 00:05:16.089 responders in a lot of ways. And I think adding 00:05:16.089 --> 00:05:19.089 T satellite is a good way to differentiate also 00:05:19.089 --> 00:05:21.480 the network slicing feature. That's literally 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:24.220 nobody else can offer that today. And I think 00:05:24.220 --> 00:05:27.160 they're going to continue to build on their advantage 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:32.019 in their network to compete. They have more spectrum, 00:05:32.259 --> 00:05:34.540 they have a more advanced network, and they're 00:05:34.540 --> 00:05:35.939 going to try and do everything they can to stay 00:05:35.939 --> 00:05:40.040 ahead of Verizon and AT &T. And I think that 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.699 this is generally a good thing. I mostly agree 00:05:42.699 --> 00:05:45.279 with what you're saying, but yeah, I just want 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:47.620 to add a little bit color, especially considering 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:51.540 my next topic. I wanted to. Cheers to you because 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:54.139 I'm thirsty. Yeah, Rachel and I are enjoying 00:05:54.139 --> 00:05:56.699 a cocktail. I actually got back from Bellevue 00:05:56.699 --> 00:05:59.459 at 1 .30 in the morning. So it's been a very 00:05:59.459 --> 00:06:01.980 long day for me. But hey, just a final comment 00:06:01.980 --> 00:06:04.759 about Callie's departure. She's a total rock 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.019 star. She's been with the company for over two 00:06:07.019 --> 00:06:09.800 decades. She's moved up from the ranks, like 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.560 from the very bottom of the ranks up. From my 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:14.480 perspective, and I'm glad you touched on the 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:16.939 Deutsche Telekom executive influence that's coming 00:06:16.939 --> 00:06:20.420 into T -Mobile. From my perspective, that is 00:06:20.420 --> 00:06:23.240 happening to better operationalize the business 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:25.819 and scale the business for future growth. And 00:06:25.819 --> 00:06:27.639 so this executive that they're bringing in from 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:32.560 DT has a lot of experience. And I think one of 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:37.040 the challenges that TFB has had is that because 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:40.220 the consumer business is the lion's share of 00:06:40.220 --> 00:06:42.920 the top line revenue and really drives a lot 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.060 of the strategy and the development and the investment 00:06:46.060 --> 00:06:49.490 in the business. They wanted to better operationalize 00:06:49.490 --> 00:06:52.009 what they're doing so that they can have independent 00:06:52.009 --> 00:06:55.949 resources to grow the roadmap. And again, we 00:06:55.949 --> 00:06:58.589 can't talk about the specifics because as analysts, 00:06:58.730 --> 00:07:01.529 we're bound by NDA on that. But suffice it to 00:07:01.529 --> 00:07:03.829 say, there are a lot of exciting things that 00:07:03.829 --> 00:07:05.790 are coming on a number of different fronts that 00:07:05.790 --> 00:07:08.430 I think are really going to continue to accelerate 00:07:08.430 --> 00:07:12.269 TFB's momentum and its competitiveness against 00:07:12.269 --> 00:07:15.980 TNT and Verizon. that have had much more mature 00:07:15.980 --> 00:07:19.800 enterprise solution offerings over time. So at 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.740 these inflection points, she was the right leader 00:07:22.740 --> 00:07:26.100 at the right time. She leaves a legacy of building 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:28.600 a very strong foundation. She leaves on very 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.819 positive terms. And I wouldn't be surprised to 00:07:31.819 --> 00:07:35.339 see here even a higher level role, another MNO 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:38.540 or a company that's adjacent to the telecommunications 00:07:38.540 --> 00:07:41.370 industry. Callie, it was great to see you and 00:07:41.370 --> 00:07:43.550 just, I wish you all the best in your new adventure. 00:07:43.709 --> 00:07:45.990 But with that, let's shift gears and let's talk 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:49.089 about another operator, AT &T. And this was pretty 00:07:49.089 --> 00:07:52.009 big news. So you and I have talked about EchoStar 00:07:52.009 --> 00:07:55.069 and DISH for a number of years and what we perceive 00:07:55.069 --> 00:07:57.069 as some of the challenges with their spectrum 00:07:57.069 --> 00:08:00.350 squatting and that sort of thing. But just recently 00:08:00.350 --> 00:08:04.170 it was announced that AT &T has acquired considerable 00:08:04.170 --> 00:08:07.230 amount of their low and mid band spectrum. at 00:08:07.230 --> 00:08:11.889 a price tag of $23 billion. And so I'll let you 00:08:11.889 --> 00:08:16.689 take it away, my friend. Sure. So this deal is 00:08:16.689 --> 00:08:20.389 very complex for a lot of reasons. I think, one, 00:08:20.589 --> 00:08:25.470 it does put more spectrum in AT &T's hands. Thankfully, 00:08:25.529 --> 00:08:28.709 our friend Mike Dano actually shared what the 00:08:28.709 --> 00:08:30.870 spectrum landscape looks after this acquisition. 00:08:31.170 --> 00:08:34.169 And he showed, I think this was from TD Cowan, 00:08:34.289 --> 00:08:38.120 they were demonstrating what the actual difference 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:40.220 would be. So you add that 50 megahertz to AT 00:08:40.220 --> 00:08:43.100 &T. What does that look like? That actually takes 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:46.379 AT &T from last place in spectrum and puts them 00:08:46.379 --> 00:08:49.840 in second place with 314 megahertz of low to 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:52.620 mid band spectrum. That's still below T -Mobile's 00:08:52.620 --> 00:08:57.559 376, but. it is higher than verizon's 279 so 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.240 it gives att a bit more of a fighting chance 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:04.620 against t -mobile and verizon and it also gives 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:09.139 them a really good coverage layer bit of spectrum 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:13.240 because 20 megahertz is not not a joke when it 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:15.200 comes to these lower bands because there's not 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.580 that much frequency available yeah and that 20 00:09:17.580 --> 00:09:19.360 megahertz will be really valuable for nationwide 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:22.240 coverage and it could also potentially be used 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:24.940 for satellite as well. There was some talk of 00:09:24.940 --> 00:09:29.019 that online, but I also think that I don't really 00:09:29.019 --> 00:09:33.519 believe that there's a application for satellite 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.570 that. would trump using it for terrestrial because 00:09:36.570 --> 00:09:38.370 you always want to have terrestrial more than 00:09:38.370 --> 00:09:40.830 you want to have satellite it's just more scalable 00:09:40.830 --> 00:09:44.509 and viable i don't know what they will do with 00:09:44.509 --> 00:09:46.970 it but deploying it will be expensive so there's 00:09:46.970 --> 00:09:48.649 a possibility that actually satellite could be 00:09:48.649 --> 00:09:51.070 a cheaper way to deploy that spectrum yeah that 00:09:51.070 --> 00:09:54.590 said the other spectrum they got is 3 .5 45 gigahertz 00:09:54.590 --> 00:09:58.860 which was the spectrum that AT &T bought from 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:01.440 the US government. And so it had DISH. So now 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:03.320 they're basically, they can actually deploy that 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.019 like instantaneously. That will improve their 00:10:06.019 --> 00:10:08.620 mid -band coverage and speeds, which is pretty 00:10:08.620 --> 00:10:12.240 big. So those two chunks of spectrum are very 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.080 valuable. That's 30 megahertz. So that's no joke. 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.539 And that will help AT &T a lot in competing with 00:10:18.539 --> 00:10:21.299 Verizon and T -Mobile on speeds and feeds, but 00:10:21.299 --> 00:10:23.759 also in coverage. So I think overall, this is 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.980 good for AT &T. What I will say is I don't really 00:10:26.980 --> 00:10:29.639 appreciate the way that it was achieved because 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:33.120 this was very clearly a influence operation by 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.379 the FCC's chair and the Trump administration 00:10:35.379 --> 00:10:39.059 to bully Echo Stardish to give up the spectrum. 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:42.179 I almost wish they had forced them to give it 00:10:42.179 --> 00:10:45.840 up in a more traditional way, as in having there 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.820 be an auction for the spectrum, because he basically 00:10:48.820 --> 00:10:52.679 got the spectrum without anyone ever having a 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:55.980 chance to bid for it. Yes. Dish and EchoStar 00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:58.620 did make $10 billion on this spectrum. They paid 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:02.100 $13 billion for this and got $25 for it. They 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:04.279 actually made $12 billion, which is a great return 00:11:04.279 --> 00:11:06.620 on investment. And we'll see what they do with 00:11:06.620 --> 00:11:08.639 that money. But that's actually a ton of money 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.720 that they can use to do a lot of things. And 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.059 it also leaves them with 76 megahertz of spectrum 00:11:15.059 --> 00:11:18.519 left in their network. But they said they will 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.000 decommission a lot of their sites with Open RAN. 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.970 So that also will... creates some consequences 00:11:24.970 --> 00:11:27.889 for Open RAN vendors and the movement of Open 00:11:27.889 --> 00:11:30.830 RAN as a technology for the industry. There's 00:11:30.830 --> 00:11:34.009 a lot going on with this deal. Some things good, 00:11:34.129 --> 00:11:37.269 some things bad. I do like AT &T being more competitive 00:11:37.269 --> 00:11:39.529 here. I just don't think they should have gotten 00:11:39.529 --> 00:11:41.730 it this way. And I think most people will agree 00:11:41.730 --> 00:11:44.490 with me. I agree with you. It's unconventional, 00:11:44.610 --> 00:11:47.649 but I do like the fact that it balances the spectrum 00:11:47.649 --> 00:11:51.519 footprint with T -Mobile. And clearly, when you 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:56.980 look at the 5G deployments in the US, AT &T is 00:11:56.980 --> 00:11:59.419 certainly in a second place position when you 00:11:59.419 --> 00:12:01.159 look at where they're at with standalone and 00:12:01.159 --> 00:12:03.460 what they're doing with Ericsson on leveraging 00:12:03.460 --> 00:12:05.440 things like Open RAN, like you mentioned, and 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.080 network programmability and API and all of that. 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:10.659 I think it evens the playing field. But I agree 00:12:10.659 --> 00:12:13.039 with you. It's unconventional. But hey, listen, 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.039 the second Trump administration is very unconventional. 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.639 Look at the 10 % investment in Intel. And many 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.519 could argue that Intel is too big to fail, that 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.679 Foundry needs to find customers so that we can 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:28.620 be competitive from a supply chain perspective 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:32.980 in Silicon with TSMC. But yeah, we live in very 00:12:32.980 --> 00:12:35.279 unconventional times. And this is absolutely, 00:12:35.419 --> 00:12:37.080 I agree with you, a very unconventional move. 00:12:37.259 --> 00:12:40.600 But I'm hoping at the end of the day, it ultimately 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.759 benefits. It benefits subscribers and benefits 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.740 telecommunications industry in general. But with 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.820 that, let's move to my second topic. And I'm 00:12:48.820 --> 00:12:50.639 going to be pretty quick on these two because 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:52.460 I know you've got a lot to talk about with your 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:55.220 other two topics. But news broke recently around 00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:58.419 Ericsson joining a Swedish AI consortium. And 00:12:58.419 --> 00:13:01.279 this is interesting. It's actually a formulation 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.679 of an AI company that's composed of all 100 % 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:09.039 Swedish companies. And it is intended to promote 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:14.100 Swedish AI. And there's no specific. sort of 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:16.379 references to, Hey, what are the applications? 00:13:16.580 --> 00:13:18.179 What are the outcomes? What are the use cases? 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.759 But certainly we've talked about things like 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.340 AIRAN, certainly NVIDIA is focused on that. They're 00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.820 promoting that quite a bit. And I really like 00:13:25.820 --> 00:13:29.100 this because what Ericsson is doing, and we've 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:32.580 talked about this before, Ericsson formed that 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:36.340 JV around API and programmability. We spent time 00:13:36.340 --> 00:13:38.059 with T -Mobile this week and learned more about 00:13:38.059 --> 00:13:41.179 what they're doing with their APIs and their, 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.539 I think it's called DevEdge. which is their developer 00:13:44.539 --> 00:13:48.179 set of resources that provide not only access 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:51.299 to their production standalone 5G network, but 00:13:51.299 --> 00:13:53.279 they also provide resources so that developers 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:57.840 can more quickly and easily develop next generation 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.500 applications and take advantage of low latency 00:14:00.500 --> 00:14:03.220 and strong throughput and massive device support 00:14:03.220 --> 00:14:05.419 and that sort of thing. But I really like this. 00:14:05.500 --> 00:14:08.700 So this is another representation, another example 00:14:08.700 --> 00:14:11.299 of how Ericsson is thinking a little bit more 00:14:11.299 --> 00:14:15.230 broadly. And joining consortiums and driving 00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:18.590 JVs to basically foster and drive innovation. 00:14:18.669 --> 00:14:21.350 So that's what I've got to say on it. I don't 00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:23.149 know. Did you catch that news? Any thoughts there? 00:14:23.649 --> 00:14:26.470 I did not. But this kind of falls in line with 00:14:26.470 --> 00:14:27.950 a lot of what we're seeing from the European 00:14:27.950 --> 00:14:32.309 companies in terms of sovereign AI. Yeah, good 00:14:32.309 --> 00:14:35.269 point. And focusing on building AI within the 00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:38.490 bounds of their... culture and their society 00:14:38.490 --> 00:14:41.289 and what they accept, which I think makes sense 00:14:41.289 --> 00:14:43.169 because I think Europeans are a lot more sensitive 00:14:43.169 --> 00:14:47.629 about privacy and how AI is being used. I think 00:14:47.629 --> 00:14:49.909 we're going to see different types of implementations 00:14:49.909 --> 00:14:52.850 of AI, especially considering the rules that 00:14:52.850 --> 00:14:55.750 Europeans follow when it comes to data sovereignty 00:14:55.750 --> 00:14:58.350 and privacy. Yeah, I totally agree with you. 00:14:58.409 --> 00:15:00.409 And I think the other opportunity here is that 00:15:00.940 --> 00:15:04.600 Let's not mince words. NVIDIA is driving, from 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.759 a Silicon perspective, modern AI, right? And 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.159 there are, I think there's a French company, 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.379 and I'm forgetting the name, Mistral, I believe, 00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:15.399 that has a very robust, large language model 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:19.059 and platform. But this, and this is, of course, 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:23.019 focused on Swedish companies. This allows Europe 00:15:23.019 --> 00:15:25.720 to be a little more possibly competitive and 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:28.899 participate in what I deem the AI gold rush. 00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:31.820 And I agree with you. Typically, from a privacy 00:15:31.820 --> 00:15:34.039 standpoint, Europe tends to be very leading edge. 00:15:34.220 --> 00:15:37.360 From a sustainability perspective, Europe tends 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:40.340 to be very leading edge as well. So I think one 00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:43.299 of the big challenges with AI is power consumption 00:15:43.299 --> 00:15:46.039 and sustainability. This could really birth a 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:49.299 lot of innovation and opportunity around providing 00:15:49.299 --> 00:15:52.840 more sustainable AI infrastructure and frameworks 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:54.919 and that sort of thing. Excellent point, my friend, 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.120 that you pointed out there. Hey, let's go to 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:00.559 your second topic. And Apple invites have gone 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:02.460 out. There's a big announcement coming up in 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:05.419 September. Do you want to talk about that? Yeah, 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:08.000 Apple, that's finally happening. It's basically 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.940 happening at the same time that everybody would 00:16:10.940 --> 00:16:14.740 expect it to, which is about the first two weeks 00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:18.039 of September. And a lot of people expected it 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.220 to land at this time. So it did. And I will be 00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:24.779 there. I got invited this year. after six years 00:16:24.779 --> 00:16:27.700 of not attending in person. So I will be there 00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:29.179 and I'll be covering all the announcements and 00:16:29.179 --> 00:16:31.919 talking about all the latest 5G capabilities, 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.879 which Apple devices end up with an Apple modem, 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:37.600 which ones don't. The expectation is that we 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.139 still won't see it at the high end where there's 00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:42.710 the most volume. But there's a possibility some 00:16:42.710 --> 00:16:45.110 lower end models might get it. And next year, 00:16:45.190 --> 00:16:47.629 we'll probably see a broader application of 5G 00:16:47.629 --> 00:16:50.289 modems within Apple's lineup, including a potential 00:16:50.289 --> 00:16:52.710 foldable. But I also want to talk about another 00:16:52.710 --> 00:16:55.450 rumor, which is that Apple's watches might be 00:16:55.450 --> 00:16:58.889 getting 5G. And I think it's actually a really 00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:01.389 great thing if you think about it, because if 00:17:01.389 --> 00:17:04.400 they deploy 5G. and it's standalone which might 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.380 force 18 team verizon to actually go full standalone 00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:10.319 maybe they could do a red cap modem i'm just 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:12.920 going to say this could be this is a perfect 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.599 opportunity for apple d5g red cap totally because 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:18.539 it's actually going to a lot of people don't 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:20.880 know is that 5g red cap is actually lower power 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.619 than lte and in a lot of cases better throughput 00:17:24.619 --> 00:17:27.970 you could actually get a better connected smartwatch 00:17:27.970 --> 00:17:31.569 experience with 5g than you would with the current 00:17:31.569 --> 00:17:35.210 4g models and i'm not the biggest fan of cellular 00:17:35.210 --> 00:17:39.009 watches i have had mostly bad experiences with 00:17:39.009 --> 00:17:41.130 them in the last few years but there are some 00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:42.849 applications where it makes sense if you just 00:17:42.849 --> 00:17:45.769 want to have your watch and nothing else and 00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:47.789 you're outdoors because truthfully the antennas 00:17:47.789 --> 00:17:50.430 on these things are not the greatest and as a 00:17:50.430 --> 00:17:53.640 result Their attenuation indoors sucks. Generally, 00:17:53.859 --> 00:17:55.539 I think these are great for fitness and outdoor 00:17:55.539 --> 00:17:58.440 use. And I hope that we see 5G watches become 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.460 a thing because I think it will continue to push 00:18:00.460 --> 00:18:04.339 innovation on 5G and even make watches better 00:18:04.339 --> 00:18:06.960 at streaming or phone calls, all these kinds 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.140 of things that 5G will. automatically enhanced 00:18:09.140 --> 00:18:12.980 by just enabling standalone over a red cap modem. 00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:15.640 So that was my thought on the Apple event. I'm 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:17.799 excited to go and be there. I've never actually 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:20.339 been inside the Steve Jobs theater because they 00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:23.220 built it after the pandemic or during the pandemic 00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:26.160 and was finished at that time. But yeah, that's 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.099 my thoughts on that. I'm happy that you finally 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:31.359 got the invite is when you couldn't go to the 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:34.079 Qualcomm Snapdragon summit and I get to stand 00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:36.799 in for you. So I got the golden ticket one year, 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.619 but. I think it's a testament, man. You've been 00:18:39.619 --> 00:18:42.740 just a writing theme. You've been publishing 00:18:42.740 --> 00:18:44.799 Forbes articles. You've been publishing more 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.180 insights and strategy analysts insights and research 00:18:47.180 --> 00:18:50.299 notes. And so it's very well deserved. I have 00:18:50.299 --> 00:18:52.880 one thing to say about the possibility of a 5G 00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:55.460 red cap Apple watch. I want satellite on that. 00:18:55.660 --> 00:18:58.660 You mean like the Pixel watch has? Oh, does the 00:18:58.660 --> 00:19:01.039 Pixel watch have satellite support? So the Pixel 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.940 watch that will be, I think it's available today 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:06.910 or yesterday or maybe later in the month. It 00:19:06.910 --> 00:19:09.029 was part of the big Pixel announcement. The Pixel 00:19:09.029 --> 00:19:11.430 Watch 4 has satellite messaging. Yeah, because 00:19:11.430 --> 00:19:13.230 I'm just thinking when I'm hiking in my place 00:19:13.230 --> 00:19:15.609 in Colorado and encountering black bears like 00:19:15.609 --> 00:19:18.450 I did on a trail run with my wife, it might be 00:19:18.450 --> 00:19:21.609 nice to have that. Totally. Cool, man. Hey, I'm 00:19:21.609 --> 00:19:23.170 going to hit my third and final topic pretty 00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:25.630 quickly as well. And I just, I found this to 00:19:25.630 --> 00:19:28.079 be really interesting news, but... Recently, 00:19:28.299 --> 00:19:31.579 Nokia actually filed a lawsuit against Paramount 00:19:31.579 --> 00:19:34.740 Skydance. Paramount Skydance is obviously the 00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:37.619 movie studio for Paramount. And they're alleging 00:19:37.619 --> 00:19:40.700 infringement on several patents related to video 00:19:40.700 --> 00:19:43.740 streaming technology. And I mention this because 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:48.500 it blows my mind that I didn't know that Nokia 00:19:48.500 --> 00:19:51.180 had intellectual property tied to video streaming. 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:54.200 I had no idea. And you're a shutterbug, so you 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.640 probably knew this already. But I just find it 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.940 fascinating that the company is a little more 00:19:58.940 --> 00:20:01.539 diversified than I think people really understand. 00:20:01.940 --> 00:20:03.799 When you look at, I don't think a lot of people 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:07.180 understand that Nokia has a huge presence in 00:20:07.180 --> 00:20:10.140 optical and transport. In fact, they're right 00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.700 up there with Cisco and Huawei. And it just makes 00:20:13.700 --> 00:20:16.420 you think, it's like, why doesn't the company 00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:19.799 do a better job of making all of this knowledgeable 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.779 to the market? But any thoughts before we hit 00:20:22.779 --> 00:20:26.980 your third and final? No, Nokia has always been 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:31.619 a very strong IP player. If you think about the 00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:34.460 lawsuits that they had with Qualcomm multiple 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:39.480 times, and they've defended their IP very rigorously 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.700 over the years. So this doesn't surprise me that 00:20:42.700 --> 00:20:44.119 they would have something like this, especially 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:46.200 considering they have all of these networking 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.619 technologies. And I'm sure they've done tons 00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:52.220 of R &D in the networking space, specifically 00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:55.789 for media. none of this really surprises me i 00:20:55.789 --> 00:20:58.289 didn't know that they had this ip but it's an 00:20:58.289 --> 00:21:00.789 interesting time for the lawsuit because now 00:21:00.789 --> 00:21:03.630 paramount is part of a larger company with much 00:21:03.630 --> 00:21:06.089 deeper pockets and maybe they were waiting to 00:21:06.089 --> 00:21:08.170 file this lawsuit once they were part of a bigger 00:21:08.170 --> 00:21:10.809 entity that has more money because paramount 00:21:10.809 --> 00:21:12.750 was pretty much broke and that's why they got 00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:14.869 bought and that's there's a whole other thing 00:21:14.869 --> 00:21:17.430 about how that acquisition went down but yeah 00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:19.549 i thought it was very interesting i did not know 00:21:19.549 --> 00:21:22.089 about that Yeah, and streaming's been big for 00:21:22.089 --> 00:21:25.009 quite some time, but now it's becoming almost 00:21:25.009 --> 00:21:29.509 the primary vehicle for even new releases, unless 00:21:29.509 --> 00:21:31.569 it's a movie that Tom Cruise is starring in, 00:21:31.670 --> 00:21:34.390 and he's very adamant about it's going to get 00:21:34.390 --> 00:21:36.130 a theatrical release first, and then it's going 00:21:36.130 --> 00:21:38.589 to go to streaming. But with that said, the new 00:21:38.589 --> 00:21:41.230 Mission Impossible movie is available on streaming, 00:21:41.329 --> 00:21:43.329 so I may be watching that this weekend over the 00:21:43.329 --> 00:21:47.230 long three -day weekend. But I digress. But let's 00:21:47.230 --> 00:21:49.400 hit your third and final. Do you want to talk 00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.740 about the Pixel 10 launch? Yes. So there were 00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:55.400 a lot of curious things that happened with the 00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:57.920 Pixel 10 launch. I was not able to attend in 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.059 person, but the reviews and devices launched 00:22:01.059 --> 00:22:05.140 yesterday. And it is the first device on T -Mobile's 00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:08.380 network that can do picture messaging and data. 00:22:08.579 --> 00:22:11.599 T -Mobile will be fully launching data and messaging, 00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:14.160 not text messaging, but just regular like app 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:17.019 messaging. in october but this is the first device 00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:18.920 to get that capability so you can use google 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.200 maps with satellite which is super cool dude 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.019 i love that i love that combination and i want 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:28.000 it now i'm actually like i'm thinking about upgrading 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:30.779 i'm thinking dude i'm you're gonna laugh i'm 00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:33.930 thinking about moving from ios back to android 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:36.329 and i'm thinking the pixel 10 may be the product 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:38.309 that i mean if you do i probably recommend a 00:22:38.309 --> 00:22:40.750 pixel 10 pro xl because it has all the features 00:22:40.750 --> 00:22:43.970 yeah all the latest you can reuse all of your 00:22:43.970 --> 00:22:48.049 magsafe stuff on it because it has g2 .2 and 00:22:48.049 --> 00:22:50.950 it actually does 20 i think it does 25 watt wireless 00:22:50.950 --> 00:22:53.670 charging too anyways getting back to the pixel 00:22:53.670 --> 00:22:56.849 series they have the new tensor g5 which now 00:22:56.849 --> 00:23:00.619 we know details about it's arm cpu imagination 00:23:00.619 --> 00:23:04.079 gpu which is the same base tech that apple uses 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:06.380 but they've licensed it now they do have their 00:23:06.380 --> 00:23:08.940 own stuff and then it's a samsung modem from 00:23:08.940 --> 00:23:11.460 this last generation so they have mixed their 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:16.599 own ip with third -party ip and then samsung 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:18.359 so they ditched samsung for the processor but 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.480 they kept them for the modem which is wild and 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.500 confusing but it's google's choice and the performance 00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:27.460 is okay it's not really as good as a snapdragon 00:23:27.460 --> 00:23:29.960 processor but Google seems to be happy with it, 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:31.900 and it's giving them enough AI performance that 00:23:31.900 --> 00:23:34.940 they can do stuff like the Pixel Pro Res Zoom, 00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:37.759 which is a new feature where you can do 100x 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:42.579 zoom, and it uses an AI model on device to infer 00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:45.599 what you're trying to take a picture of and fill 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.859 in the resolution with a better quality. And 00:23:48.859 --> 00:23:50.680 some of the pictures, if you go online and look 00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:52.980 at Pixel Pro Res Zoom, you'll see some crazy 00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:55.839 results. How are you getting that kind of zoom? 00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:58.799 It doesn't look real. but it does use an on -device 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:01.440 model to infer what you're trying to take a picture 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.940 of and clean it up so it doesn't look like a 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:06.319 bad watercolor painting and then it doesn't work 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.119 on people so you can't take pictures of people 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:10.920 and get that result it has to be objects and 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:12.299 other things because people are more complex 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:15.240 and you probably need a bigger database of human 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:17.839 faces to not make it look watercolory because 00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:19.700 if you've done some ai stuff and you look at 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:22.950 it in the past it's a nightmare it actually looks 00:24:22.950 --> 00:24:25.569 like a horror movie when these people's faces 00:24:25.569 --> 00:24:29.049 and images are like pulled and yeah exactly so 00:24:29.049 --> 00:24:31.529 this is they're trying to avoid that and yeah 00:24:31.529 --> 00:24:33.910 it also has some other on -device ai capabilities 00:24:33.910 --> 00:24:37.029 like the ability to translate people's voices 00:24:37.029 --> 00:24:40.190 using their voice in another language this is 00:24:40.190 --> 00:24:41.930 technology that they've pulled in from other 00:24:41.930 --> 00:24:45.109 parts of google the xr space specifically with 00:24:45.109 --> 00:24:48.519 beam And yeah, it's very cool. I'm hoping to 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:51.880 get my hands on a Pixel 10 Pro XL fairly soon. 00:24:52.019 --> 00:24:54.339 I will be getting my hands on a Pro Fold down 00:24:54.339 --> 00:24:56.420 the road, but that's not actually launching until 00:24:56.420 --> 00:24:58.700 October. Right now, it's just the first three 00:24:58.700 --> 00:25:02.079 Pixels, Pixel 10, Pixel Pro, 10 Pro, and Pro 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.599 XL, and then the Fold will come later. I'm excited 00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.200 about that because I just published my Fold 7 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.599 review from Samsung, which I have a lot of good 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:11.990 things to say about. But there are some gaps 00:25:11.990 --> 00:25:14.589 still. And the Pixel addresses some of them. 00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:17.470 But then the Pixel has its own gaps. We're still 00:25:17.470 --> 00:25:19.670 not in the place where foldables in the US are 00:25:19.670 --> 00:25:22.829 as good as they are in China. But I'm very impressed 00:25:22.829 --> 00:25:24.849 with what I'm seeing so far. Feel free to read 00:25:24.849 --> 00:25:27.529 my Fold 7 review. I think it went live yesterday. 00:25:27.750 --> 00:25:30.190 And then I'll hopefully have some Pixel reviews 00:25:30.190 --> 00:25:33.130 down the road. Awesome, buddy. Yeah, and I was 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:35.930 going to ask you, like, how does... what Google's 00:25:35.930 --> 00:25:38.430 doing with the 10 compared to, with that combination 00:25:38.430 --> 00:25:42.230 of different SOCs compared to Snapdragon. And 00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:45.190 your take on it is that Snapdragon is just more 00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:49.150 performant, it sounds like. Yep. Okay, cool. 00:25:49.450 --> 00:25:51.589 Hey, buddy, it's been a great podcast. I'm wearing 00:25:51.589 --> 00:25:55.509 my UT burn orange. We play Ohio State. We are 00:25:55.509 --> 00:25:57.869 number one in the nation for the first time in 00:25:57.869 --> 00:25:59.970 our program's history. I'm not going to make 00:25:59.970 --> 00:26:02.089 any predictions about how my longhorns are going 00:26:02.089 --> 00:26:04.230 to do, but I'm going to be glued to the TV at 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:07.549 11. Central Standard Time and watching college 00:26:07.549 --> 00:26:09.509 football all weekend. What are you going to do 00:26:09.509 --> 00:26:11.390 this weekend on the long three -day weekend? 00:26:12.130 --> 00:26:14.230 I'm actually going to be preparing for my trip 00:26:14.230 --> 00:26:17.950 to the UK. I'm going to visit Arm next week. 00:26:18.190 --> 00:26:20.670 So that'll be interesting. But I will mostly 00:26:20.670 --> 00:26:23.410 be preparing and unpacking and cleaning and then 00:26:23.410 --> 00:26:25.529 packing again and spending time with my family 00:26:25.529 --> 00:26:28.410 before I leave the country. That's it. I'll also 00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:31.519 be testing. I got a new laptop. and a new keyboard. 00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:34.700 The laptop is a 14 inch laptop that has a rollable 00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:37.099 display that turns into a 16 with the press of 00:26:37.099 --> 00:26:40.339 a button or gesture. And then I have a split 00:26:40.339 --> 00:26:43.400 keyboard that I got from Naya that I saw at CES. 00:26:43.460 --> 00:26:45.380 I actually did a video on that on YouTube. And 00:26:45.380 --> 00:26:48.319 it's a split keyboard with convertible buttons 00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:51.079 and touch pads. And it's super low profile and 00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:52.819 it folds on itself and it's magnetic and you 00:26:52.819 --> 00:26:55.059 can take it anywhere. So I'll be taking that. 00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.079 And I'm also considering taking my Vision Pro 00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:00.309 with my MacBook. on the road so i can have a 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:03.490 cool super power high power setup which i'm also 00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:07.269 publishing a review about fairly soon cool just 00:27:07.269 --> 00:27:10.109 do me a favor don't wear your vision pro on the 00:27:10.109 --> 00:27:13.569 airplane i saw some nerd doing this like i did 00:27:13.569 --> 00:27:16.230 that when i first got the vision pro and i got 00:27:16.230 --> 00:27:19.329 weird looks dude i wanted to he was in the bulkhead 00:27:19.329 --> 00:27:21.049 and i was like a row behind him i wanted to walk 00:27:21.049 --> 00:27:23.329 up and just knock it off his face it was so funny 00:27:23.329 --> 00:27:26.569 anyway that's a little aggressive but With that, 00:27:26.589 --> 00:27:28.650 buddy, it's been another great podcast. Why don't 00:27:28.650 --> 00:27:31.450 you take us home? Absolutely. We hope our viewers 00:27:31.450 --> 00:27:33.490 and listeners on this week's topic is interesting. 00:27:33.650 --> 00:27:35.549 If anyone would like to reach out and provide 00:27:35.549 --> 00:27:39.269 insights on a future 5G topic, please reach out 00:27:39.269 --> 00:27:41.250 to us on social media. Will is at WillTownTech, 00:27:41.369 --> 00:27:44.089 and I'm at Anshul Saag. We hope you have a great 00:27:44.089 --> 00:27:47.089 holiday weekend, and please don't forget to rate 00:27:47.089 --> 00:27:47.809 us and subscribe.