Welcome to the GCLine 5G. It's the latest inside
scoop on everything 5G. We typically talk about
six topics in 20 minutes, but today we're doing
a special standalone edition. And we're joined
by Zscaler, Ken and Nathan. Welcome to our podcast.
Hey. Good to be here, Will. Thanks. Thank you.
Hey, so before we get started, let's start with
you, Nathan. Quick introduction on what you do
at Zscaler. Yeah. Hey, I run innovation here,
so I get to look after all the cool new toys
and figure out what works, what doesn't. And
yeah, get to find out what's going to be the
direction for the company over the next five
to 10 years. Awesome. And Ken, we got to meet,
I got to meet both of y 'all at Zenith Live,
but we had a great conversation as well. What
are you responsible for, Ken? I do the strategy
on the innovation team, currently focused on
5G and satellite. Well, we talk about 5G on this
podcast. We're beginning to talk about 6G as
well. But let's talk about Zscaler Cellular.
So I spent time with y 'all at Zenith Live. On
July 8th, you had the big announcement. Ken,
I spent a lot of time with you. I went up to
the show floor. I got a sim as well, and I'm
going to be playing with that. But maybe, Nathan,
let's start with you. What is Zscaler Cellular
all about? Yeah, happy to give some insights.
So from our point of view, Zscaler Celia really
is nothing more than the next evolution of connecting
our customers to their zero trust exchange, their
policy engine. And what I mean by that is today
we have client connector for the end users. We
have edge of network forwarding for machines
and workloads. And there was a gap, which was
the devices that are not Wi -Fi or not Ethernet
connected. The things out in the field, the 4G,
5G, even. for what it's worth, back to 2G devices
that customers have. And the crux of that is
very simple. We enable those devices to connect
directly into a Zscaler custom policy, and they
can get their zero trust controls, their protection,
their visibility, as if they were for end users
that are in a workload, in a workstation, in
an office or a building or in a cloud, we can
now do it for anything that's cellular connected.
And the goal is to do it anywhere in the world
for where those devices may exist. Yeah. And
so Ken, from an innovation standpoint, I think
this is pretty innovative because all you have
to do is just use the Zscaler SIM, right? There's
no overlay. There's no friction associated with
this. So can you spend a little bit of time on
kind of the implementation? It's straightforward,
interesting, tricky, all at the same time. You
have a SIM. SIM really is just a way of uniquely
identifying some device to a telco system. telco
devices don't attach to any network till you
stick a sim in them or an e -sim in them and
once you do it says oh you're this are you allowed
to be on my network do i know who you are do
you have a rate plan how do i charge you are
you my customer are you someone else's customer
And that's great. But you also will go through
the telco system, which has cybersecurity ranging
from well -known, easily hacked from the 4G days,
3G days, right up to 5G, where it's supposed
to address most, but as we find out, not all
areas of cybersecurity. So we said, we already
do zero trust cybersecurity at Zscaler. We keep
attackers out of your system. We keep your IP,
your crown jewels in your system. He said, could
we do something at the sim level? And Nathan
had been playing. I love Nathan playing around.
True experimentally said, hey, Ken, look at this.
Wow. I would love to curse on this podcast, but
I'm not going to because that was how excited
I got. I said, yeah, this is what the market's
going to want. You can stick it in any, because
normally it's like telco device. All you got
to put a client on it. My thing can't take a
client. Why not? It's like a drone or an autonomous
vehicle. And there's real -time systems. And
I can't just stick some enterprise client on
in the middle of the network stack and say, yeah,
this is all going to work just fine. Because
in truth, it doesn't. But if you have the SIM
and do the zero trust right from the transmitter
back in the internet. That's when it works great.
You don't have to modify anything. You don't
have to put clients on. At some level, you don't
need MDM even, mobile device management, although
it's useful for some really interesting things,
which we may or may not be able to talk about
on this podcast. There, I'm teasing because I'm
going to let Nathan talk about it, maybe. Hey,
Anshul is our end device expert, and I know he's
probably dying to ask the application questions.
Take it away. Yeah, I would love to know what
are some of the end device applications for this
Z -scale or cellular and how are they different
from other applications that are in use today?
Yeah, I think I'll jump in with this one because
it's been a lot of fun actually dealing with
the types of customers and their ecosystem of
devices. And one thing that I will say is that
every day we are completely surprised as to where...
a cellular modem has been deployed. And it is
incredible range. And to give you bookends, and
then I'll give you specifics, we have things
like every vending machine has been SIM enabled
since probably 1997. Just doing stock taking,
sending information about how many cans of Coke
have been sold or whatever else. The other end
of the scale, which I find ironic, given that
I'm Australian and that Australia was a prison
colony, is ankle trackers for prisoners. They
are all SIM connected as well. So you kind of
have this giant spectrum. By the way, To continue
that joke, I leave my ankle tracker in Australia.
When I go back home, they reattach it. And when
I fly out, they take it off. But the diversity
is huge. And so where we're seeing this become
really interesting for our customers is in...
three main areas. One is headless devices, similar
to what Ken mentioned, like drones, but think
about things like devices that are out, maybe
a sensor on a highway or a rail infrastructure
or track and tracing of a package. Those are
the things where information is critically needing
to be connected and sent to a destination. And
often those destinations are private. So that
would normally mean historically a VPN on the
client side or private APN from a telco. And
what we're saying here is actually we're not
reliant on the telcos to backhaul traffic into
a private APN into a data center. You go straight
in from that SIM into the Zscaler policy engine
and then Zscaler says, oh, that's private. Send
that via Zscaler private access. So it's a direct
hop, not a backhaul, which is a big advantage
for those private workloads. There's probably
two other very interesting examples of call -out.
One is the direct -to -internet. So devices,
again, these are devices sitting out on the side
of the highway or rail or whatever, and they're
being misused as well. People are figuring out
that if I crack open the box that's not protected
by anything, there may be a padlock. I open it
up, I can pull the SIM out, I can stick it in
my device. What can I do with it? And so everything
coming to us goes through the Z -scale policy,
and we can say. YouTube and Netflix and all those
other high bandwidth things that consume the
services get blocked. And you only allow the
destination on the internet is needed. Maybe
it's a green grass IoT sensor or something. And
the third part is, this is one where I think
that we have a very unique position. First of
all, Zscaler doesn't allow any network -to -network
connections. We don't allow IP -to -IP connectivity.
We have to go through a policy engine. If you
think about one of these devices that's remote.
and you need to support it, log into it and fix
something, that would require, in the historical
private APN world, some sort of routable network
path and some ingress location someone can VPN
into or connect to a network and then move across.
We don't believe in that. So we have built it
so that you only connect to the Zscaler policy
engine from wherever you are in the world. And
if policy says you can get access, we will actually
broker the connection between that initiated
user or thing or process back to the actual SIM
initiated system. So whatever it may be, it could
be a SSH on a sensor. It could be a web policy
engine on some sort of, I don't know, portal
or whatever it could be. And we'll enable that
to happen, meaning we're only allowing authorized
connections into the device. So there's no way
to get access in and out. without going through
the Zscaler policy engine. I think that's a crux
that differentiates us between anything else.
We're not backhauling it to a network to apply
controls. We're putting it directly in line between
Zscaler, the SIM going to its destination and
the destinations or the other sources coming
into the app or the SIM as a destination. So
we become that broker of control and policy,
which again, to my earlier point, we did for
users already and did for workloads. This is
now the next extension. So what you've built
is a very mature platform, the zero trust exchange,
right? But I'm wondering, Ken. Just the sheer
number of devices. So one of the biggest challenges
that mobile network operators face are just the
sheer numbers of devices. And so Nathan was just
describing a lot of IoT use cases, right? And
that's huge. And IoT tends to create massive
threat surfaces and porous threat surfaces because
traditionally standards have been all over the
place. But so Ken, from your perspective, does
what Zscaler has created with Zscaler Cellular,
will it scale? to support these massive number
of devices? Short answer is yes. The joke is,
what do you think the scaler in Zscaler is? It
meant the Zenith scaling. We blow through what?
I think it's now 600 billion transactions a day
for our customers. And we're not at the limit.
We can push huge amounts of data. You can do
things like, and the fun thing about the SIMs
I love is you can do things like buy a security
camera that has a 5G connection only on it, stick
the SIM in, move the thing around, no cables.
You just need the power supply or solar power
for it. And you're handling high bandwidth, 4K
video, able to do instant object recognition
at the edge or anywhere else. You can take gigantic
mining equipment. that needs to be remotely operated
in the bottom of a shaft several tens of thousands
of meters deep, stick a stick in it, and you
have a secure two -way connection no matter what.
This is absolutely amazing. You get cybersecurity
and controllability and ability to reach in and
administer a device with a little piece of plastic
or a digital certificate. I don't need clients.
I've remoted the client away. I just need the
connection. Yeah, that's where I was just really
blown away when I spent time with both of you
at Zenith Live. It's just the fact that it's
just, it's a sim. And we've talked about some
very compelling use cases, Ken. You were alluding
to this. There are some other use cases that
I'm sure are, and we, Anshul and I have talked
about the application of 5G in military applications.
And like, so the Marine Corps is using private
5G networks to manage logistics and that sort
of thing. Anshul, do you have a question you
want to? shoot either one of their ways. I want
to monopolize the competition. No, I'm really
curious about, there's a lot of enterprise applications
that you guys have talked about, a lot of IoT,
but being the consumer guy, do you see there
being any consumer applications that could benefit
from this? There you go. It's a good question.
Ken, do you mind if I go first? Oh, please. Absolutely.
Ken will be the closer on this stuff. As always.
So I think the key thing is from an enterprise
user point of view, we've already got the software
on an iOS, Android, Mac, Windows device that
we can do. And it provides different insights.
It's a software layer that allows for also diversity
of connectivity. So if you have your phone and
it goes to Wi -Fi, we can enable that to be securely
provided over there. Obviously, the cellular
service is provided solely within cellular. But
with that being said. we do have some advantages
and one we haven't alluded to and i probably
i'm just remiss and not even saying this is that
we allow for the cellular connected devices to
be on multiple carrier networks globally so that
if one carrier is not available for whatever
reason maybe you're out of range maybe the carrier
goes down or maybe you change countries or whatever
it may be we have built it to be a multi -roaming
sim so there is a mechanism that could help some
enterprises when it comes to maybe perhaps roaming
to new countries sending them to countries that
are maybe not the most well -renowned for security.
So we can provide control, we can provide security
for those users and connectivity for those users
when they go somewhere. So yes, there's an enterprise
user space aspect, but I wouldn't look at it
as being a replacement for the client -side software
because obviously client enables user authentication.
You've got code to assess the posture of the
device, all those values. Now, those two things
together, yeah, that becomes very interesting,
the cellular and the client -side. But I would
say the enterprise space beyond, there's a lot
more that we're looking at. This is where I can
throw to Ken and talk about some of the stuff
that we're doing, we're thinking about doing,
and now we're exploring in and around, as you
said, the kind of the government space as well.
Ken, I'll let you continue from there. Yeah.
Government is simply a different kind of big
organization. They have this, a lot of the needs
overlap. We look at government. and defense use
cases, energy use cases, and they map very closely
to what we see in the enterprise. You've got
autonomous vehicles, you've got a remote vehicle,
you've got people out in the field. who as far
as an IT system, you could say they look like
salespeople. They're operating semi -independently
and they need to work on a variety of networks.
We can do things for customers like I'd like
to push huge amounts of data all the time. I
need an all you can eat data plan. It has to
work everywhere in the world. Or I'm not going
to push a lot of data. I want the cheapest possible
plan. We can rotate people to that. Or I don't
care if it's an intermittent connection because
I cache data so I can go with a very inexpensive
and possibly spotty service provider that meets
their needs. Or I can have the always on high
volume, high bandwidth provider and with a different
type of contract. And because we're Zscaler,
we can look into things like, okay, you want
all you can eat for 4K video all the time for
security. Great. If you're okay with going with
one provider, two providers compared to the several
hundred, you can get a much better deal. It's
telco. There are so many different plans. And
because we have so many different relationships
with telco vendors around the world, we can offer.
a wide variety of options to customers you can't
get on your own. That's massive amounts of data
for global customers. You get some really interesting
rates. Yeah, I bet. And I was just speaking with
Verizon recently and their leader that's leading
their IoT business. And we talked about security.
I didn't bring this up because I was pre -briefed
and had to wait until the announcement on July
8th. One thing, getting back to Anshul's point
on consumer, I think Nathan, you and I were talking
about this at Zenith Live was like, you could
potentially use this solution to, if you're,
let's say you're, you want to be anonymous, right?
And you're roaming from country to country, right?
This is going through the Zscaler exchange. And
so you could potentially anonymize that. So it
could be a wealthy person. It could be a famous
person. It could be Taylor Swift. I don't know.
So there's that application too, right? Yeah,
absolutely. My daughter was just listening to
Taylor Swift on the radio this morning. So there
you go. No, but actually it's an interesting
point because yes, ultimately the traffic is
coming to Zscaler. and we are in control of where
that goes. So think of it very similar to any
other version from Zscaler. All the initiating
source is going to, the network path is going
to see is traffic going to a gateway. That gateway
is Zscaler. So from there, we can do whatever
we want with the traffic and that's up to the
customers and we can build it up for various
different types of use cases. But absolutely,
that means that we're in that path, we own the
path, we can decide what to do with the path.
And again... built on policy base for the customer
to want to achieve. But that's extremely powerful,
Will, as you alluded to. There's things that
can be done. Today, our customers do that with
edge of network forwarding. They do it with Client
Connector. On the client side of things, the
one thing I will say, and I need to obviously
make the statement, use Zscaler properly. Don't
break any local laws because we can't be held
responsible for those things. But yeah, of course
you can do it. And the example I'll give you,
which is just a fun one for me, is that... I
have my personal policy engine for Zscaler. I
have my kids run the software on their devices
to access our Minecraft server at home. So anywhere
in the world, we can log in using Client Connector
from their laptops to access our own Minecraft
server. But if I want to join... I could maybe
throw Zscaler cellular sim in my device and have
policy available to do that too. Now, nobody
else can connect to that Minecraft server. No
one else can see that Minecraft server. No one
else knows it exists. No one even knows the connection.
They just see this connection going to Zscaler.
They have no idea about it. So yes, my policy
is built so I can have a private Minecraft server
with my kids. But you could do other things as
well. Again, don't break any laws. I'm impressed
that you have a Minecraft server in your home.
I bet Anshul has one as well. He's a total techie.
Hey, guys, it's been a great conversation. But
as we sort of wind things down, let's talk about
availability, right? So you're in preview right
now. Ken, when should we expect to see Zscaler
Cellular hit the mainstream here in sort of general
availability? He's holding one off. If I didn't
have this. blurry background you'd be seeing
i'm just going to cover the code on it because
who knows how higher resolution you got you can
get them right now okay yeah oh look i have more
than one Yeah. So I'm willing to give you that.
We can organize that and give you a specific
example. We are live, limited availability for
customers until August 1st, general availability.
Anyone can buy from us. You can buy from us now.
It's just a matter of process more than anything
else. So we are fully available for customers
to be able to operate this today. So we're really
happy to hear any inquiry at all. Great. You
got two weeks. And for our viewers and listeners,
can they go to zscaler .com to learn more or
can you share? that information yeah there's
a there's actually a sub page of zscaler .com
for our zscaler cellular just do a quick google
search you'll find it but otherwise we'll provide
a link afterwards if you will but also they can
reach out to us at srm at zscaler .com it's really
easy and we'll be happy to fill any inbound questions
discussions happy to talk about partnerships
talk about how to deploy it all those things
we're open to every conversation because we think
there's as you pointed out well this is the really
rich opportunity for us to really provide that
next level of control and protection for our
customers around the world, which is extremely
exciting. I love it. When you think about 5G,
5G new radio from a standard perspective, it's
got encryption improvements over LTE, but this
just provides another layer, another level of
protection. At the end of the day, cybersecurity
is about a layered approach. So Nathan, Ken,
I want to thank you for your time. It's been
a great conversation. Anshul? Why don't you take
us home? Absolutely. We hope our viewers and
listeners found this week's topic interesting.
If anyone would like to provide insights on a
future 5G topic for a future podcast, please
reach out to us on social media. Will's at WillTownTac
and I'm Anshul Saag. And Ken and Nathan are both
at Zscaler. So thanks a lot for listening. And
don't forget to rate us and subscribe.