WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.660 Welcome to episode 228 of the G2 on 5G. It's 00:00:03.660 --> 00:00:06.839 the latest Insight Scoop on everything 5G. We 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:09.240 cover six topics in about 20 minutes. It's brought 00:00:09.240 --> 00:00:11.779 to you by More Insights and Strategy. I'm Will 00:00:11.779 --> 00:00:13.619 Townsend, and joining me again this week is fellow 00:00:13.619 --> 00:00:16.559 analyst Anshul Sag. Let's get started with my 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.379 first topic, and I want to talk about Trump Mobile 00:00:20.379 --> 00:00:25.199 launching a gold 5G service. But the question 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:29.550 is, is it solid gold, my friend? We're going 00:00:29.550 --> 00:00:31.629 to follow the rule of thumb that we don't talk 00:00:31.629 --> 00:00:34.909 about politics. We don't weigh in with our opinion 00:00:34.909 --> 00:00:38.590 on that or religion or sex. That's the three 00:00:38.590 --> 00:00:40.329 things that you don't talk about at a cocktail 00:00:40.329 --> 00:00:43.909 party. But let's examine this service. So it 00:00:43.909 --> 00:00:47.329 was just launched. It comes with an unlimited 00:00:47.329 --> 00:00:53.549 plan at a cost of cleverly derived $47 .45. That 00:00:53.549 --> 00:00:55.729 represents, obviously, the fact that Trump is 00:00:55.729 --> 00:01:00.539 the 45th and the 47th. 7th U .S. president. Now, 00:01:00.579 --> 00:01:03.859 initially, there's no equipment, but there are 00:01:03.859 --> 00:01:08.420 plans for a golden hue Trump T1 phone, which 00:01:08.420 --> 00:01:10.840 is going to feature an Android 15 operating system, 00:01:10.939 --> 00:01:14.500 a 6 .8 -inch touchscreen with 120 hertz refresh 00:01:14.500 --> 00:01:20.480 rate at a price of $499. Now, you know, this 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:23.060 is an MVNO. It's being supported by all three 00:01:23.060 --> 00:01:25.459 carriers, although the website doesn't specify 00:01:25.459 --> 00:01:29.060 who those are. We can guess who those folks are, 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.000 AT &T, T -Mobile, and Verizon. And other than 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:35.719 that, they are touting that customer service 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:38.239 will be based in the United States. But beyond 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.040 that, there isn't a lot of substance that I see 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.219 to this. So what are your non -political tinged 00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:48.459 thoughts about this? You're speechless, I know. 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.400 There's a thing called the Hatch Act, violating 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:56.590 that wildly. ignoring all the massive violations 00:01:56.590 --> 00:02:02.409 of the law and how this is just bleeped out. 00:02:02.590 --> 00:02:05.709 I don't know how else to say it. It's just another 00:02:05.709 --> 00:02:09.270 grift. I don't see there being anything of any 00:02:09.270 --> 00:02:14.270 value here for anyone outside of the Trump circle 00:02:14.270 --> 00:02:17.169 of influence. I can't say that I would recommend 00:02:17.169 --> 00:02:21.240 this to any consumer. To be using T -Mobile's 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:23.539 network to show coverage, which makes sense because 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:26.680 T -Mobile has the best coverage for 5G. It just, 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.620 I don't know, it just seems like a grift. Yet 00:02:30.620 --> 00:02:33.719 another grift. The phone is a Chinese phone. 00:02:34.060 --> 00:02:37.860 Is it really? Oh, for sure. Here's the thing. 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.900 You cannot manufacture a phone rapidly, especially 00:02:42.900 --> 00:02:45.819 a branded one, without using a Chinese white 00:02:45.819 --> 00:02:48.479 label OEM. I heard that they were supposedly 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:53.090 going to. use some other company to do the software 00:02:53.090 --> 00:02:56.729 and the hardware in the US eventually. But the 00:02:56.729 --> 00:03:00.389 truth is that in order to build a proper smartphone, 00:03:00.849 --> 00:03:04.590 nine times out of 10, you are going to be building 00:03:04.590 --> 00:03:08.289 it in China. I would say right now that this 00:03:08.289 --> 00:03:12.509 is just another way for the Trump family to enrich 00:03:12.509 --> 00:03:16.009 themselves to no real benefit to consumers. Yeah, 00:03:16.030 --> 00:03:18.330 there isn't a lot of substance to this. It will 00:03:18.330 --> 00:03:20.509 be interesting. And if it is a Chinese handset. 00:03:20.569 --> 00:03:23.330 If it ever happens. Yeah, that would fly in the 00:03:23.330 --> 00:03:24.870 face of the convention, I think, of what they're 00:03:24.870 --> 00:03:27.189 trying to do here. Now, this is a Mobile World 00:03:27.189 --> 00:03:29.569 Live article. I mean, it's been all over the 00:03:29.569 --> 00:03:32.449 news, obviously, but it was interesting. At the 00:03:32.449 --> 00:03:34.569 end of the article, Mobile World Live speaks 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:38.219 to. The fact that a financial disclosure form 00:03:38.219 --> 00:03:42.560 filed on the 13th of January reflected that President 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.580 Trump has generated more than $600 million in 00:03:45.580 --> 00:03:49.460 revenue and income from selling eventually this 00:03:49.460 --> 00:03:53.479 5G service. But this includes watches. I've seen 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:57.520 those. Bibles, shoes, fragrances, a coffee table 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:01.039 book. Hunter Biden was taking advantage of dad 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:03.479 in office and selling finger paints for unreasonable 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:06.840 sums of money as well. But yeah, it's interesting. 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:09.240 There isn't a lot of value here. It'll be interesting 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:11.800 to see what handset materializes. They say it's 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:13.560 going to come in the next couple of months. But 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.699 yeah, I thought we had to hit it. From my perspective, 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:19.579 this is electroplated gold. It's not solid gold. 00:04:19.860 --> 00:04:22.209 But hey, let's move to a more positive. topic, 00:04:22.329 --> 00:04:25.149 your first topic, and you had an extended weekend 00:04:25.149 --> 00:04:28.170 with your daughters and your wife, and you were 00:04:28.170 --> 00:04:32.550 testing satellite service on Father's Day. So 00:04:32.550 --> 00:04:35.389 I want to hear your input here because I plan 00:04:35.389 --> 00:04:38.649 to do this with some demo equipment that I have 00:04:38.649 --> 00:04:42.009 when I'm in Utah at the end of July doing a Ford 00:04:42.009 --> 00:04:44.490 Performance driving school, but I'll let you 00:04:44.490 --> 00:04:48.350 take it away. So I will tell you the beta is 00:04:48.350 --> 00:04:50.290 over, so you're going to have to pay for the 00:04:50.290 --> 00:04:55.610 service. Oh, shit. I managed to sneak in right 00:04:55.610 --> 00:04:58.329 before the beta was over on T -Mobile. But yeah, 00:04:58.410 --> 00:05:01.230 it was really interesting because I fully took 00:05:01.230 --> 00:05:04.269 as many devices with me as I could. I don't have 00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:06.689 a bunch of the same device. So not all of the 00:05:06.689 --> 00:05:09.069 devices actually were satellite compatible. For 00:05:09.069 --> 00:05:11.610 example, the Pixel device I had is a Pixel 9a. 00:05:11.730 --> 00:05:13.730 That doesn't have satellite connectivity, but 00:05:13.730 --> 00:05:16.329 the Pixel 9 does. That was already a fail on 00:05:16.329 --> 00:05:18.050 my part, but also a fail on their part because 00:05:18.050 --> 00:05:20.839 I think... There's not enough devices that support 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:22.660 these satellite services yet, and it's a very 00:05:22.660 --> 00:05:26.759 small number of devices, mostly the newest flagships. 00:05:26.779 --> 00:05:28.839 So that's something to consider with this whole 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:30.860 satellite discussion is that we need to have 00:05:30.860 --> 00:05:33.759 this in all devices, not just the flagships. 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:35.839 Now, my T -Mobile experience was interesting 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:38.740 because it automatically switched to the satellite 00:05:38.740 --> 00:05:41.220 service for me as I was driving in and out of 00:05:41.220 --> 00:05:43.579 coverage. When I left cell coverage with T -Mobile, 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.920 it told me, hey, you're now on T -Mobile satellite. 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.129 Just enjoy messaging. And here's your service. 00:05:50.990 --> 00:05:53.490 Interestingly enough, once I got to the campsite, 00:05:53.550 --> 00:05:55.889 the service wasn't really working. Like I wasn't 00:05:55.889 --> 00:05:57.329 able to send messages. I wasn't really getting 00:05:57.329 --> 00:05:59.990 messages. Then the next morning on Father's Day, 00:06:00.069 --> 00:06:01.910 I woke up to a bunch of text messages thanks 00:06:01.910 --> 00:06:04.389 to the satellite messaging. But I was not sleeping 00:06:04.389 --> 00:06:06.910 outside. I was actually in the cabin because 00:06:06.910 --> 00:06:10.389 we went to the cabin. So it actually works indoors, 00:06:10.649 --> 00:06:13.250 which I was really surprised by because. I was 00:06:13.250 --> 00:06:14.949 under the impression that it needed to be outdoors 00:06:14.949 --> 00:06:18.170 and have some kind of a view of the sky. I also 00:06:18.170 --> 00:06:21.589 had a Verizon device with me, an iPhone 16 Pro, 00:06:21.790 --> 00:06:24.050 which does have satellite messaging thanks to 00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:26.850 Apple and Verizon. But that required me, one, 00:06:26.949 --> 00:06:30.230 to be outdoors. Two, it required the cell network 00:06:30.230 --> 00:06:32.410 to not be operational. And the problem was that 00:06:32.410 --> 00:06:34.670 Verizon actually did have coverage there, but 00:06:34.670 --> 00:06:36.949 it was so poor that I never got a message out. 00:06:37.050 --> 00:06:41.209 So I struggled to get any texts out at all, whether 00:06:41.209 --> 00:06:43.750 it was over satellite. or overseller because 00:06:43.750 --> 00:06:46.250 I was always like edging between the 4G network 00:06:46.250 --> 00:06:48.970 and the satellite, which was a problem. And then 00:06:48.970 --> 00:06:51.529 I did have an AT &T device with me, but it wasn't 00:06:51.529 --> 00:06:54.410 an AT &T certified device for satellite. But 00:06:54.410 --> 00:06:56.370 one of my friends had an iPhone and he was able 00:06:56.370 --> 00:06:59.189 to use it. And one, he was able to use it in 00:06:59.189 --> 00:07:01.009 the woods, which was where we were staying, where 00:07:01.009 --> 00:07:02.889 we were sitting. So he didn't have to find a 00:07:02.889 --> 00:07:05.129 clearing like you have to do with the Apple service. 00:07:05.529 --> 00:07:07.670 But also what was really interesting was he was 00:07:07.670 --> 00:07:10.870 like, yeah, like it just worked. Like I didn't 00:07:10.870 --> 00:07:12.860 have to align it for anything. It just worked. 00:07:12.939 --> 00:07:16.199 So I would say AT &T T -Mobile definitely had 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:18.660 a good experience and it's cool to see because 00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:20.939 actually my friend who had the AT &T service 00:07:20.939 --> 00:07:23.959 found out through a text message he got on the 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:26.560 campsite that his landlord was coming by to do 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.019 some kind of inspection and he wouldn't have 00:07:29.019 --> 00:07:31.399 known to come home earlier if he didn't have 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:33.949 that text message. So I wouldn't have had my 00:07:33.949 --> 00:07:35.610 friends and family wishing me happy Father's 00:07:35.610 --> 00:07:37.709 Day. He wouldn't have known about his landlord. 00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:40.610 So it's really nice to have these satellite services 00:07:40.610 --> 00:07:43.230 that aren't necessarily for emergency use cases 00:07:43.230 --> 00:07:45.829 always. But I was also thinking if my car broke 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:47.870 down on these mountain roads where I have no 00:07:47.870 --> 00:07:51.449 cells, it would have been totally like my mind 00:07:51.449 --> 00:07:54.069 was like, this is minimum just for roadside assistance 00:07:54.069 --> 00:07:57.389 and not like I'm pretty satisfied with the experience 00:07:57.389 --> 00:08:00.319 that I had. There's room for improvement. I think 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.259 not all solutions are equal. More devices should 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:06.259 be supported. And I will have my thoughts on 00:08:06.259 --> 00:08:08.199 this coming up pretty soon. I already typed up 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:11.279 an outline of what I want to say. So it'll be 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:13.740 probably in the next week or so. But yeah, I 00:08:13.740 --> 00:08:15.819 think overall, great experience. Only thing that's 00:08:15.819 --> 00:08:19.300 a big bummer is that I dropped my S25 Ultra in 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:23.060 the lake while I was skiing. My testing was limited 00:08:23.060 --> 00:08:27.139 to a day of service due to my own study. You 00:08:27.139 --> 00:08:28.899 had a lot of fun, it sounds like. You're on jet 00:08:28.899 --> 00:08:31.480 skis. That's pretty cool. And I got a good tan. 00:08:32.179 --> 00:08:35.139 And you got a good tan. Cool. We're going to 00:08:35.139 --> 00:08:37.279 continue this theme with my second topic, and 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.480 I want to talk about a recent announcement between 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.139 ASC Space Mobile and Vodafone collaborating for 00:08:43.139 --> 00:08:45.840 direct -to -device connectivity in India. And 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:48.539 we've talked about ASC Space Mobile numerous 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:52.120 times on the podcast, and it's no secret. We've 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:54.320 also talked about the fact that both AT &T and 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:57.549 Vodafone and Google have made investments in 00:08:57.549 --> 00:09:00.529 ast space mobile as they continue to launch their 00:09:00.529 --> 00:09:03.370 bluebird satellites and continue to build their 00:09:03.370 --> 00:09:05.769 constellations so i just want to provide a quick 00:09:05.769 --> 00:09:08.570 overview of what was announced so this is actually 00:09:08.570 --> 00:09:13.950 vodafone idea which is vodafone's operating business 00:09:13.950 --> 00:09:18.049 unit in india and to no surprise they're partnering 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:20.649 with ast space mobile they're leveraging what 00:09:20.649 --> 00:09:24.190 ast space mobile is doing From their satellite 00:09:24.190 --> 00:09:26.450 broadband platform perspective, we have talked 00:09:26.450 --> 00:09:29.629 about that in the past. And the initial focus, 00:09:29.830 --> 00:09:32.370 it is a huge market, right? Over 1 .1 billion 00:09:32.370 --> 00:09:36.070 people. Companies like Reliance, Jio have done 00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:38.590 a fantastic job using software -defined technology 00:09:38.590 --> 00:09:42.429 with Core and RAN and Open RAN to quickly deploy 00:09:42.429 --> 00:09:46.200 both LTE and 5G networks. Those are in major 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.940 metropolitan areas, highly densely populated 00:09:48.940 --> 00:09:51.860 urban centers and that sort of thing. And so 00:09:51.860 --> 00:09:54.399 there's still a rural digital divide, just like 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.059 there is in the United States. So initially, 00:09:57.179 --> 00:10:00.220 this focus is on expanding connectivity in rural 00:10:00.220 --> 00:10:03.669 regions. And it is definitely a partnership. 00:10:03.690 --> 00:10:08.009 So obviously with ASC Space Mobile managing the 00:10:08.009 --> 00:10:10.009 satellite, the integration with that infrastructure, 00:10:10.090 --> 00:10:13.190 and then what Vodafone Idea will be doing is 00:10:13.190 --> 00:10:16.769 obviously managing the integration with terrestrial 00:10:16.769 --> 00:10:19.649 spectrum and that sort of thing. So nothing earth 00:10:19.649 --> 00:10:21.570 shattering from that partnership, but this just 00:10:21.570 --> 00:10:24.549 further demonstrates. the strength of the relationship 00:10:24.549 --> 00:10:27.309 between both ASC Space Mobile and Vodafone Group 00:10:27.309 --> 00:10:31.850 in expanding into supporting India in rural use 00:10:31.850 --> 00:10:34.129 cases. There may not be much more for you to 00:10:34.129 --> 00:10:35.570 comment on, but what are your thoughts here? 00:10:35.649 --> 00:10:37.950 No, I think that's about it. It's great to see 00:10:37.950 --> 00:10:42.610 more connectivity access across the world. And 00:10:42.610 --> 00:10:44.870 I think there's always room for improvement and 00:10:44.870 --> 00:10:47.169 satellite seems to be the right way to reach 00:10:47.169 --> 00:10:50.149 the most people. The problem is that I think 00:10:50.149 --> 00:10:52.419 that... There's a cap on what you can really 00:10:52.419 --> 00:10:54.440 do today. And I want to make sure that people 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:56.740 don't overestimate what satellite can do. And 00:10:56.740 --> 00:10:59.019 that satellite is not the only solution, nor 00:10:59.019 --> 00:11:02.259 is fiber, nor is FWA. It's a combination of all 00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:05.120 three. Copper is dead. Yeah, no, it's a good 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:07.820 point. I think what you shared, your experience 00:11:07.820 --> 00:11:10.940 doing the testing over Father's Day weekend is 00:11:10.940 --> 00:11:14.159 a good example of that. So it's still nascent. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.799 And it's going to take time for companies like 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:22.159 AST Space Mobile, Starlink, what Amazon is doing 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:25.500 as well, and then the narrowband IoT use cases 00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:27.539 like Satellite and others that we've talked about 00:11:27.539 --> 00:11:31.200 as well to get the proper constellation coverage 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.940 in low Earth orbit to make all this a reality. 00:11:34.100 --> 00:11:37.899 But it is very promising. Again, it's going to 00:11:37.899 --> 00:11:40.799 play a critical element in bridging the digital 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.889 divide, especially in... very lower populated 00:11:43.889 --> 00:11:47.029 parts of the world. So exciting stuff. And that's 00:11:47.029 --> 00:11:49.149 going to unlock a lot of use cases around agriculture 00:11:49.149 --> 00:11:51.269 technology. And you and I have talked about that 00:11:51.269 --> 00:11:54.429 many times on this podcast. But with that said, 00:11:54.570 --> 00:11:57.409 let's go to your second topic. And you want to 00:11:57.409 --> 00:11:59.610 talk about T -Mobile and their partnership with 00:11:59.610 --> 00:12:05.649 the WPGA. Yes. So there is the WPGA championship 00:12:05.649 --> 00:12:09.850 in Frisco, Texas this weekend. It actually starts 00:12:09.850 --> 00:12:15.139 today. yeah north texas yeah and this will leverage 00:12:15.139 --> 00:12:18.080 this is a continuation of t -mobile's partnership 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.480 with the pga the wpga and just in general with 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:26.379 golf and the what they're trying to do is be 00:12:26.379 --> 00:12:29.340 a showcase for the future of golf technology 00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:34.179 this is a combination of all kinds of new technologies 00:12:34.179 --> 00:12:36.440 and features that the pga wants to implement 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:40.519 in partnership with t -mobile and their 5g advanced 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:44.019 network solutions so they're doing a autonomous 00:12:44.019 --> 00:12:47.340 driving range ball picker that uses 5g to connect 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:49.799 to ai and automate ball collection so you don't 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:51.720 have to have a person out there doing that anymore 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.720 but it was always fun to try to hit that person 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.080 with a golf ball when you're teeing off right 00:12:57.080 --> 00:12:59.940 sure but it's cheaper it's cheaper not to have 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:02.019 to pay a person and safer true then you have 00:13:02.019 --> 00:13:05.470 a real -time swing analysis that uses 5g through 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:08.710 Sportbox AI coaching tools. There's a mixed reality 00:13:08.710 --> 00:13:11.149 putting simulator that connects golfers to the 00:13:11.149 --> 00:13:13.929 putt view system through 5G to help golfers train 00:13:13.929 --> 00:13:15.990 their short game in new ways. And then there's 00:13:15.990 --> 00:13:18.769 an AI powered video highlight thanks to autonomous 00:13:18.769 --> 00:13:21.669 video system from RealGolf that uses T -Mobile's 00:13:21.669 --> 00:13:24.889 5G to connect smart cameras that capture T -degree 00:13:24.889 --> 00:13:28.450 shots at hole 10. So there's that plus all the 00:13:28.450 --> 00:13:30.750 broadcast stuff that they're doing to enable 00:13:30.750 --> 00:13:34.000 smoother broadcast, lower latencies. Interesting, 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:36.879 it's on the 10th, 12th, and 15 holes. So it's 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:40.399 not on every hole, but I think that the later 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.879 holes tend to be the more challenging ones and 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:45.000 the ones people are more interested in. But yeah, 00:13:45.059 --> 00:13:47.159 they're talking about how women's golf is growing 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.700 and how enabling better broadcasts in a partnership 00:13:51.700 --> 00:13:55.460 with KPMG, who's like the big sponsor, to improve 00:13:55.460 --> 00:13:57.720 the fan experience, but also improve the broadcast. 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:01.299 And I think T -Mobile is really leaning in on 00:14:01.299 --> 00:14:05.240 golf. as a sport that they enable. And we know 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:09.279 Mel went to see what they're doing a few weeks 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.500 ago and wrote about that on Forbes. There's a 00:14:11.500 --> 00:14:13.820 lot going on with T -Mobile and golf. They also 00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:15.960 had the SailGP, which we talked about last week. 00:14:16.100 --> 00:14:18.240 I wish, I still wish I had gone to that, but 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:20.840 T -Mobile was really showing how they can enable 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:23.820 better broadcast experiences for all kinds of 00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:26.360 sports. Obviously they're not as closely tied 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:30.059 to the NFL as Verizon is. or the NHL as Verizon 00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:32.259 is, everybody's got to pick their leagues and 00:14:32.259 --> 00:14:34.759 their sports. And T -Mobile also has a lot of 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:37.539 stuff on F1. So it's really exciting to see growing 00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:40.879 leagues and new technologies enabling that growth 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:44.820 with T -Mobile. Yeah, so I think they're purposely 00:14:44.820 --> 00:14:48.600 picking things like F1 and golf, and here's why 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.580 I think they are. So when you look at the NFL 00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:54.480 and you look at the NBA and you look at the NHL, 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:59.580 typically... These are in venues or Major League 00:14:59.580 --> 00:15:03.279 Baseball. These are in venues that already have 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:06.820 the requisite infrastructure in place, right? 00:15:07.059 --> 00:15:11.679 Wi -Fi, fiber, that sort of thing. But when you 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:16.440 contrast that with golf, with F1, with NASCAR, 00:15:16.659 --> 00:15:19.539 what ends up happening is some of those venues 00:15:19.539 --> 00:15:21.899 do have infrastructure. But a lot of them do 00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:23.879 not. Like Circuit of the Americas in Austin has 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.940 fiber infrastructure. They built a private, not 00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:30.220 a private network, but they've invested in and 00:15:30.220 --> 00:15:33.500 ran and that sort of thing. But in a lot of like 00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:36.500 for the WPGA and the PGA, these are at country 00:15:36.500 --> 00:15:40.000 clubs that don't have. the requisite networking 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.700 infrastructure. And so this is where I think 00:15:42.700 --> 00:15:45.320 5G really shines. So that's my hypothesis there. 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:47.639 That's why I believe T -Mobile is being selected. 00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:49.580 But let me ask you a question. You may not have 00:15:49.580 --> 00:15:52.480 dug deep enough into this particular announcement 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.340 to answer the question. I don't mean to put you 00:15:55.340 --> 00:15:58.399 on the spot, but I did read in the announcement 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.580 that there were some new sort of unique broadcast 00:16:01.580 --> 00:16:05.519 capabilities. that they're planning to showcase 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.200 in Frisco over the weekend. Did you pick up on 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:11.139 anything that was net near relative to what they've 00:16:11.139 --> 00:16:13.399 already been doing with the PGA? Yeah, they said 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:17.759 it'll be advanced T -stats like ball speed, shot 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.279 apex, and distance in the live broadcast. They'll 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.259 have real -time data and be able to demonstrate 00:16:24.259 --> 00:16:27.500 that on the broadcast as opposed to in the past 00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:30.440 or as a replay, which is cool. That is cool. 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:33.080 Okay, cool. Yeah, I didn't catch that. So I appreciate 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:35.259 you clarifying that. Cool. Hey, let's go hit 00:16:35.259 --> 00:16:36.980 my third and final topic quickly. And I want 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.440 to talk about Nokia. And they dropped an announcement 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:43.419 yesterday around their launch of an autonomous 00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:47.200 network fabric and what they think it can do 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.320 to help customers accelerate network automation. 00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:51.320 Let me back up a little bit. I've been spending 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.659 a lot of time with Nokia. I think I've spoken 00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:56.700 about this possibly on other podcasts, but... 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.019 They commissioned the firm and myself to examine 00:17:01.019 --> 00:17:02.860 what they're doing with their autonomous networks 00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:06.420 platform. And so the result of that was a paper 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:08.259 that you can find on the More Insights and Strategy 00:17:08.259 --> 00:17:11.480 website. There were also two follow -up analyst 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.240 insights where I went a little bit deeper. I 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.319 believe one was within what they're doing for 00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:19.160 security, and the second, I believe, was automation. 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:22.900 But what I really like about their most recent 00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:26.230 announcement is that What they're doing is they're 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:28.430 very focused on a fabric. And so for our viewers 00:17:28.430 --> 00:17:30.029 and listeners that aren't familiar with what 00:17:30.029 --> 00:17:32.750 fabrics are, typically a fabric, it's a network 00:17:32.750 --> 00:17:35.329 layer, but then there's integration into that 00:17:35.329 --> 00:17:38.730 layer. And primarily it's security. And you're 00:17:38.730 --> 00:17:41.890 seeing this happen with a lot of infrastructure 00:17:41.890 --> 00:17:44.930 providers. I was just at Cisco Live last week. 00:17:45.390 --> 00:17:48.089 Shameless plug for my Forbes article that posted 00:17:48.089 --> 00:17:50.339 yesterday. If you're interested in learning more 00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:51.980 about what broke at Cisco, because there was 00:17:51.980 --> 00:17:54.299 a ton of stuff that was announced around agentic 00:17:54.299 --> 00:17:58.619 AI, go read that on Forbes. with respect to network 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:01.299 automation this is what agentic ai is all about 00:18:01.299 --> 00:18:04.059 it's about agents so it's moving from generative 00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:07.039 which is that natural language interface co -pilot 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.140 thing that i think everyone's been kicking the 00:18:09.140 --> 00:18:12.819 tires on whether it's grok or it's chat gpt or 00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:15.180 whatever it's pretty amazing right but the whole 00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:18.640 notion of agent agents and having agents and 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.440 again this is ai using data to train agents to 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:25.799 work with other agents. In the future, you're 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:27.799 going to have super agents that are interfacing 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.380 with other agents. That opens a whole challenge 00:18:30.380 --> 00:18:32.640 with respect to identity access management and 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:35.099 permissioning and that sort of thing. But there 00:18:35.099 --> 00:18:37.299 are companies like Cisco's OutShift organization 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:40.200 that are focused on the Internet of Agents. Nokia 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:42.880 is also focused on this as well. But basically 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:45.440 what this does is you're integrating security 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:48.539 into the networking layer. That creates a fabric. 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.349 And on top of that, You start imbuing that with 00:18:52.349 --> 00:18:55.829 agentic AI and that can drive automation at scale. 00:18:55.990 --> 00:18:58.910 Because again, you're removing what the way that 00:18:58.910 --> 00:19:01.009 I like to position it is you are removing humans 00:19:01.009 --> 00:19:03.390 from the loop, but humans are on the loop. So 00:19:03.390 --> 00:19:06.950 in other words, humans aren't managing the task. 00:19:07.170 --> 00:19:10.490 So allow AI to do that at speed, but be on the 00:19:10.490 --> 00:19:13.190 loop so that you can monitor that. You can ensure 00:19:13.190 --> 00:19:16.269 that it's properly within guardrails. There are 00:19:16.269 --> 00:19:18.410 also tools that allow you to do that as well 00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:20.609 from a security and a connectivity standpoint. 00:19:20.910 --> 00:19:23.529 But I really like what Nokia is doing. So they 00:19:23.529 --> 00:19:26.430 launched their autonomous network platform. It's 00:19:26.430 --> 00:19:29.190 been a year plus. Just yesterday, they're launching 00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:31.589 a fabric that should, in my mind, accelerate 00:19:31.589 --> 00:19:34.450 automation. And the final thing I'll leave our 00:19:34.450 --> 00:19:37.710 viewers and listeners with is that. They do believe 00:19:37.710 --> 00:19:41.809 that by 2026 that they expect, and there wasn't 00:19:41.809 --> 00:19:44.049 a lot of detail behind this, but I guess based 00:19:44.049 --> 00:19:48.049 on a current customer proof of concepts and early 00:19:48.049 --> 00:19:50.109 preview and the feedback that they're getting, 00:19:50.250 --> 00:19:53.789 they're expecting to see the adoption curve ramp 00:19:53.789 --> 00:19:57.589 pretty significantly by 2026. Do I agree with 00:19:57.589 --> 00:19:59.730 that statement? What I have seen over the last 00:19:59.730 --> 00:20:02.529 several years, because I also focus on enterprise 00:20:02.529 --> 00:20:05.539 networking infrastructure. that for the longest 00:20:05.539 --> 00:20:08.740 time network operators have wanted to monitor 00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:11.160 that they wanted the easy button they weren't 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.339 comfortable fully automating that sort of thing 00:20:14.339 --> 00:20:18.539 but as ai proves itself slowly as i speak with 00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.460 customers now they're they're basically deploying 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:24.519 automation to handle some of those highly repetitive 00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:28.529 non -value -added tasks and so I believe that 00:20:28.529 --> 00:20:31.630 Nokia's ambitions are reasonable. It'll be interesting 00:20:31.630 --> 00:20:34.569 to see what really transcends here. But on a 00:20:34.569 --> 00:20:36.970 final note, what I'll also mention too, in addition 00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:40.589 to what I mentioned with the agents and the security 00:20:40.589 --> 00:20:43.690 integration of the network layer, what Nokia 00:20:43.690 --> 00:20:47.829 is also doing is focusing on cross -domain correlated 00:20:47.829 --> 00:20:51.369 data products, telco -trained models, both large 00:20:51.369 --> 00:20:54.480 language models. smaller language models and 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.420 machine learning. And they're also integrating 00:20:56.420 --> 00:20:59.119 security in all this. So it's pretty exciting. 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:01.140 The whole promise of the Gentic AI is pretty 00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:03.579 exciting. And again, if you want to learn a little 00:21:03.579 --> 00:21:07.019 bit more about what I discovered at Cisco Live, 00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:10.720 go hit my Forbes link. But with that said, what 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:12.740 do you think? Do you think Nokia's ambitions 00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:15.279 are going to be too aggressive here to get to 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:21.039 this by 2026? I think that they probably will. 00:21:21.710 --> 00:21:24.029 But it's a question of whether they'll get customers 00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:27.890 or if it's mature enough. But I do think it's 00:21:27.890 --> 00:21:29.829 interesting that everybody has some kind of a 00:21:29.829 --> 00:21:34.029 fabric nowadays. Fabrics are sexy. Fabric is 00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:36.910 the new hotness. I think the word fabric has 00:21:36.910 --> 00:21:40.589 lost its meaning. But nonetheless, I do think 00:21:40.589 --> 00:21:43.049 a lot of these networks are AI accelerated. And 00:21:43.049 --> 00:21:45.750 it definitely seems like AI is at the core of 00:21:45.750 --> 00:21:48.450 everything. yeah that kind of leads me into our 00:21:48.450 --> 00:21:50.890 next topic so i'll stop there yeah no that's 00:21:50.890 --> 00:21:52.950 great take it away my friend i've spoken too 00:21:52.950 --> 00:21:57.369 much yeah right now we're seeing a lot of activity 00:21:57.369 --> 00:22:03.170 on 6g and we are really getting into the point 00:22:03.170 --> 00:22:06.250 where everybody's talking about 6g in some kind 00:22:06.250 --> 00:22:08.769 of meaningful manner so it's a little bit less 00:22:08.769 --> 00:22:13.410 hype now there was recently a 3gpp plenary in 00:22:13.410 --> 00:22:16.269 prague Through its technical specification group, 00:22:16.410 --> 00:22:20.150 TSG, that happened a week ago, and it's when 00:22:20.150 --> 00:22:25.230 they started to actually discuss the work, the 00:22:25.230 --> 00:22:28.170 study items, and really get into the nitty -gritty 00:22:28.170 --> 00:22:31.349 of what 6G should be. There will be a normative 00:22:31.349 --> 00:22:35.670 specification that will happen in 2027, and the 00:22:35.670 --> 00:22:39.509 first 6G specification will be frozen around 00:22:39.509 --> 00:22:43.700 December of 2028. And the expectation is that 00:22:43.700 --> 00:22:46.920 commercial 6G launches will happen in 2029. So 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.019 we're about four years away from the launch of 00:22:50.019 --> 00:22:53.160 6G. But there are going to be gateways along 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.859 the way and checkpoints, if you want to call 00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:57.880 them, to understand where we're going. But I 00:22:57.880 --> 00:22:59.940 also wanted to add some other topics. There's 00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:04.380 a MIT just came out last week with a photonics 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:07.200 processor that could streamline 6G wireless process 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.970 signaling or signal processing. Sorry. And that 00:23:10.970 --> 00:23:13.890 would allow for faster. They're saying the photonics 00:23:13.890 --> 00:23:17.049 chip is 100 times faster than its next best digital 00:23:17.049 --> 00:23:20.650 alternative. While converging about 95 % of accuracy 00:23:20.650 --> 00:23:22.950 in signal classifications, this is a big thing 00:23:22.950 --> 00:23:26.710 for much faster networks. And it'll be interesting 00:23:26.710 --> 00:23:29.029 to see what happens there. Also, in addition 00:23:29.029 --> 00:23:32.450 to that, the NIST, which is the National Institute 00:23:32.450 --> 00:23:35.589 for Science and Technology, they're also talking 00:23:35.589 --> 00:23:39.640 about 6G and how they want to see things. evolve 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.980 and the three core things that they're talking 00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:46.240 about are propagation and spectrum metrology 00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:51.180 open architecture security and ai and using the 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:53.759 network as a sensor which i think is really interesting 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.619 because you could use that for things like autonomous 00:23:56.619 --> 00:23:59.660 robots and drones and all kinds of things that 00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:02.960 might be able to be positioned more accurately 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:04.880 with the network through triangulation and really 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.309 low latency networking which leads me to an article 00:24:08.309 --> 00:24:12.049 that I saw yesterday, which was about China leveraging 00:24:12.049 --> 00:24:16.670 6G as a electronic warfare weapon to jam fighter 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:19.269 jets. This is a story that's been spreading around 00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:22.470 the internet. I don't know why they've really 00:24:22.470 --> 00:24:26.890 focused on the F -35, but they're claiming that 00:24:26.890 --> 00:24:29.849 this X -band at 12 gigahertz could potentially 00:24:29.849 --> 00:24:33.609 allow for it to create false targets to confuse 00:24:33.609 --> 00:24:36.029 pilots. And that this, I think this is something 00:24:36.029 --> 00:24:39.940 that might be overblown a little bit, but they're 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:42.960 talking about how some of these 6G capabilities 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:47.119 could potentially jam aircraft. And obviously 00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.279 there's plenty of articles out there that are 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.039 overselling this capability, but it is interesting 00:24:52.039 --> 00:24:53.779 that the spectrum bands that are being utilized 00:24:53.779 --> 00:24:56.700 will probably be broader than ever, and there 00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:59.039 will probably be more advanced capabilities in 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:01.700 the network. And I honestly, I don't think fighter 00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:04.420 jets are the problem, actually. I think drones 00:25:04.420 --> 00:25:08.279 are the problem. we've already seen and heard 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:11.519 ukrainians using russian cellular networks to 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:14.299 deliver drones to their targets i do think security 00:25:14.299 --> 00:25:18.259 will be a big thing for 6g and i think it'll 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:21.910 be important that it'd be difficult for an actor 00:25:21.910 --> 00:25:25.849 to utilize a 6G network for a drone attack. That's 00:25:25.849 --> 00:25:28.490 where I'm at with 6G. But I wanted to ask you 00:25:28.490 --> 00:25:31.829 and our audience, should we start to talk 6G 00:25:31.829 --> 00:25:36.170 more than 5G since we're already past the 5G 00:25:36.170 --> 00:25:39.230 advanced phase and most likely we'll be getting 00:25:39.230 --> 00:25:43.269 6G based news and developments and research. 00:25:43.549 --> 00:25:45.769 And maybe we should just transition the podcast 00:25:45.769 --> 00:25:49.549 after five years to a 6G podcast. Yeah, we're 00:25:49.549 --> 00:25:51.650 considering the rebranding. We're five years 00:25:51.650 --> 00:25:55.430 into this. It seems like 6G is rapidly approaching. 00:25:55.690 --> 00:25:58.789 And so we invite our viewers and listeners to 00:25:58.789 --> 00:26:01.710 provide feedback directly to Anshul and I or 00:26:01.710 --> 00:26:04.849 on the various channels where we post this. Let 00:26:04.849 --> 00:26:06.710 me conclude with some final thoughts around your 00:26:06.710 --> 00:26:10.549 topic, Anshul. So I totally agree. A higher level 00:26:10.549 --> 00:26:14.140 of security beyond encryption. will likely become 00:26:14.140 --> 00:26:18.420 part of the 6G standard. With 5G new radio, there 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:21.220 was enhanced encryption. If NIST is getting involved, 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.720 I'm sure they're weighing in with their desire 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:28.119 to see some sort of zero trust network access 00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:32.569 or zero trust, least privilege access. imbued 00:26:32.569 --> 00:26:35.049 in whatever security standard rolls forward. 00:26:35.549 --> 00:26:38.470 NIST has defined what they believe to be a complete 00:26:38.470 --> 00:26:40.930 zero -trust architecture. That's number one. 00:26:41.150 --> 00:26:44.569 Number two, you touched on silicon photonics. 00:26:44.589 --> 00:26:47.109 So for our viewers and listeners, if that's a 00:26:47.109 --> 00:26:49.750 little too technical, basically that's the underlying 00:26:49.750 --> 00:26:52.950 technology that supports optical and fiber. There 00:26:52.950 --> 00:26:56.390 is something called co -packaged optics that 00:26:56.390 --> 00:27:01.220 at GTC, NVIDIA, has now lit a firestorm around 00:27:01.220 --> 00:27:04.220 with lots of investigations. NVIDIA is not the 00:27:04.220 --> 00:27:06.819 only one in town that can do CPO. You've got 00:27:06.819 --> 00:27:10.259 Marvell. Intel can do it as well. But basically 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:13.700 what co -packaged optics do is that it provides 00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:17.720 some efficiencies in collapsing the number of 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:20.039 components that can be integrated. That does 00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:21.960 a couple of things. Not only does it improve 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.519 the performance and the throughput and the latency, 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:29.220 but it also reduces costs. And it lowers power 00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:31.839 consumption, which is a very important consideration, 00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:34.059 especially when you're looking at all of these 00:27:34.059 --> 00:27:37.019 very AI -hungry workloads. I loved your topic 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:39.519 this week, man. So I do expect that we're going 00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:42.640 to see some zero -trust security goodness in 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:46.220 future 6G standards, as well as some evolution 00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:50.220 of photonics to lower power, improve performance, 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.039 and lower costs at the same time. But with that 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.059 said, why don't you take us home? Absolutely. 00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:56.960 We hope our viewers and listeners found this 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.220 week's topics interesting. If anyone out there 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:00.660 would like to provide insights on a specific 00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:05.220 5G or 6G topic for a future podcast, please reach 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.619 out to us on social media. Will is at Will .Tech, 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.380 and I'm at Anshul Saag. We hope you have a great 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:13.000 weekend, and please tune in again next week.