WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.220 Welcome to episode 218 of the GTO on 5G. It's 00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:06.280 the latest in Skype scoop on everything 5G. We 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:08.279 cover six topics in about 20 minutes and it's 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:09.720 brought to you by More Insights and Strategy. 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:11.960 I'm Will Townsend and joining me again this week 00:00:11.960 --> 00:00:14.580 is fellow analyst Anshul Saag. Let's get started 00:00:14.580 --> 00:00:17.120 with our Mobile World Congress Barcelona 2025 00:00:17.120 --> 00:00:20.480 wrap up. And before I get started, I'm just gonna 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:23.399 preface to our viewers and listeners. While I 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:25.300 was in Barcelona towards the end of the week, 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:27.320 I did come down with a little something. And 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.760 so my voice quality isn't the best, but I am 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.039 on lots of medication and feeling good. And this 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:36.280 should be a very interesting podcast. So with 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:38.859 that, let me start on with my first topic. And 00:00:38.859 --> 00:00:42.039 I want to talk about AST Space Mobile. At the 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.560 event, they announced a joint venture with Vodafone 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.840 group called Satco. And I actually had an opportunity 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:51.240 to meet with Abel towards the end of the week. 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.320 But at a very high level, what Satco is a joint 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.140 venture that's designed to support the highly 00:00:57.140 --> 00:00:59.200 fragmented nature of mobile network operators 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:01.280 in the United States. And what I mean by that, 00:01:01.420 --> 00:01:03.759 when you look at the US, we have three major 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:05.719 carriers, right? For the most part, there's a 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:08.469 fourth that's been trying to get in there. But 00:01:08.469 --> 00:01:10.370 when you look at Europe, you've got three to 00:01:10.370 --> 00:01:13.469 four MNOs per country. And even in small countries 00:01:13.469 --> 00:01:16.290 like Latvia, you've got three as well. And so 00:01:16.290 --> 00:01:19.069 this is an effort to more efficiently service 00:01:19.069 --> 00:01:24.269 just the vast number of MNOs in Europe. It aims 00:01:24.269 --> 00:01:26.430 to provide a turnkey solution supported by a 00:01:26.430 --> 00:01:28.629 fully managed networking stack and operations 00:01:28.629 --> 00:01:30.750 that address the need for digital sovereignty 00:01:30.750 --> 00:01:35.920 within the European Union. um and and again i 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:38.239 got to spend some time with abel i am going to 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:40.739 be writing a forbes article that includes some 00:01:40.739 --> 00:01:43.299 of that conversation that i can share that's 00:01:43.299 --> 00:01:45.730 not under non -disclosure as well as some other 00:01:45.730 --> 00:01:48.430 insights from the event. But at a very high level, 00:01:48.790 --> 00:01:51.250 he and I talked about a number of different things. 00:01:51.269 --> 00:01:54.069 The applicability of what they are doing support 00:01:54.069 --> 00:01:57.650 true broadband and not just text messaging. That's 00:01:57.650 --> 00:02:00.969 evidenced by the video call demonstrations that 00:02:00.969 --> 00:02:02.590 you and I have talked about that have occurred 00:02:02.590 --> 00:02:06.090 recently with Verizon and with AT &T in the U 00:02:06.090 --> 00:02:08.789 .S. But he and I also talked about a host of 00:02:08.789 --> 00:02:12.360 other use cases just beyond gap coverage. such 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.080 as providing better, more highly performance 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:18.819 service on aircraft, as well as supporting use 00:02:18.819 --> 00:02:21.120 cases like autonomous driving and that sort of 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.360 thing, where you need decent latency profiles 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.620 and decent throughput profiles to support all 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:28.520 of that. So this is more than just edge network 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:32.379 gap coverage. AST SpaceMobile truly wants to 00:02:32.379 --> 00:02:36.580 be a broadband solution provider. I'll also mention, 00:02:36.740 --> 00:02:42.650 and I knew this, but As AST Space Mole launches 00:02:42.650 --> 00:02:45.590 more of its satellites into space, the actual 00:02:45.590 --> 00:02:49.090 physical size of them are growing as well. And 00:02:49.090 --> 00:02:51.590 Abel showed me a picture of one of the antenna 00:02:51.590 --> 00:02:54.250 arrays. And let's just say it's significantly 00:02:54.250 --> 00:02:57.069 larger than what I saw when I was able to do 00:02:57.069 --> 00:03:00.250 that tour and be the first press analyst person 00:03:00.250 --> 00:03:03.909 allowed to tour their facility in Midland. And 00:03:03.909 --> 00:03:05.669 so I'm hoping to get back there. We talked about 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:08.169 the possibility of my coming back in the April 00:03:08.169 --> 00:03:11.419 timeframe. But again, I'll be providing deeper 00:03:11.419 --> 00:03:14.379 insights and more details around the conversation 00:03:14.379 --> 00:03:17.000 I had with him. But it's super exciting. And 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:19.659 I'll end on this note. I did mention to him what 00:03:19.659 --> 00:03:22.400 his thoughts were about the big Super Bowl ad 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.780 that T -Mobile and Starlink did. The price tag 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.539 on that was $8 million, quite significant. And 00:03:28.539 --> 00:03:31.280 honestly, his response was he was happy. It's 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.860 free advertising. It's good for the industry. 00:03:33.979 --> 00:03:35.960 And it really demonstrates the power of low Earth 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:38.319 orbit satellite and how it can augment terrestrial 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.080 networks. With all that said, what are your thoughts, 00:03:41.180 --> 00:03:46.699 my friend? I think that in general, the partnership 00:03:46.699 --> 00:03:49.139 with Vodafone is a big one, especially for the 00:03:49.139 --> 00:03:52.379 European market. I also think that there's more 00:03:52.379 --> 00:03:55.800 opportunities for competition with AST and SpaceX, 00:03:56.300 --> 00:04:00.180 Global Star, and many others. And I just think 00:04:00.180 --> 00:04:02.419 that we're going to continue to see this grow. 00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:06.340 I do think we're still in an early phase of this 00:04:06.340 --> 00:04:08.680 market in terms of... Its capabilities still 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:11.819 can be very message based, especially until bandwidth 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:15.319 and the actual spectrum available increases because 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.500 these are pretty small slots of spectrum. So 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:20.819 I think it'll be interesting to see how this 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:23.740 progresses, especially with smartphones and devices 00:04:23.740 --> 00:04:27.420 adding capabilities for faster, more capable 00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:30.139 versions of satellite communications. So I think 00:04:30.139 --> 00:04:32.579 we're at the infancy of this technology, and 00:04:32.579 --> 00:04:35.240 I think there's an opportunity for it to. uh 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.899 move into the mainstream in a few years especially 00:04:37.899 --> 00:04:41.019 with the right place pieces in place but yeah 00:04:41.019 --> 00:04:42.620 i know this was a big one and i think you've 00:04:42.620 --> 00:04:44.759 mentioned that this made the stock pop quite 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:48.079 a bit stocks are also quite down today but that's 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:50.779 a different discussion and yeah i just think 00:04:50.779 --> 00:04:53.300 satellite is going to be i'm going to continue 00:04:53.300 --> 00:04:55.439 to toot the horn that i think satellite will 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.660 become a mandatory safety feature in all smartphones 00:04:58.660 --> 00:05:01.060 in the next five to ten years Yeah, I agree. 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:04.680 No, it's super exciting. I agree with you. Innovation 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.959 is usually driven by competition. That's one 00:05:07.959 --> 00:05:10.839 of my famous catchphrases. And yeah, so for our 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:12.800 viewers and listeners, stay tuned. I'll be sharing 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:15.220 more insights in that Forbes wrap up, probably 00:05:15.220 --> 00:05:17.139 coming towards the latter part of this week, 00:05:17.139 --> 00:05:20.959 if not early next week. But with that, let's 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:22.920 move to your first topic. And I caught some of 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:26.060 this news as well. Qualcomm and MediaTek both 00:05:26.060 --> 00:05:29.639 announced new 5G modems at MWC. You want to talk 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:31.899 a little bit more about that? Yes. So Qualcomm 00:05:31.899 --> 00:05:36.420 introduced their new X85 modem and MediaTek introduced 00:05:36.420 --> 00:05:41.079 their new M90. And basically when Qualcomm is 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.439 called the X85, it's no longer called the Snapdragon 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.870 X85 because they've... introduced a new product 00:05:46.870 --> 00:05:49.110 called dragon wing which we talked about last 00:05:49.110 --> 00:05:51.970 week and that's like a branding for a lot of 00:05:51.970 --> 00:05:54.370 their infrastructure stuff but moving forward 00:05:54.370 --> 00:05:59.889 modems gpus and other cross business unit technologies 00:05:59.889 --> 00:06:03.449 will drop snapdragon and not have dragon wing 00:06:03.449 --> 00:06:06.050 either and instead have the qualcomm branding 00:06:06.050 --> 00:06:09.750 on them so this is a qualcomm x85 modem what's 00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:12.930 cool is that this ups the ante again it is now 00:06:12.930 --> 00:06:16.449 a 12 gig modem so it's capable of up to 12 gigabits 00:06:16.449 --> 00:06:19.029 per second of throughput actually they say 12 00:06:19.029 --> 00:06:23.189 .5 specifically mediatek also ups the ante to 00:06:23.189 --> 00:06:26.730 12 so both were 10 gig modems in previous generation 00:06:26.730 --> 00:06:31.430 now they're 12 gig modems and the x85 also adds 00:06:31.430 --> 00:06:35.279 the ability for 400 megahertz of bandwidth which 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:38.600 is a lot in the sub six. And then it also allows 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.579 for 3 .7 gigabits per second with four carrier 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:44.339 aggregation in the uplink. So that's a lot of 00:06:44.339 --> 00:06:46.680 uplink. And that's going to be really good for 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:49.639 broadcast applications. They also added support 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:53.720 for FRMCS, which is a European railway standard 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.819 for 5G to ensure better 5G connectivity on a 00:06:56.819 --> 00:07:01.620 moving railway. And then they added more capabilities 00:07:01.620 --> 00:07:05.550 in the X85 for... 5G TSN, which is time sensitive 00:07:05.550 --> 00:07:08.649 networking and 5G ethernet. So both industrial 00:07:08.649 --> 00:07:11.649 applications for X85. They're also introducing 00:07:11.649 --> 00:07:15.069 the first DA, which is dual SIM, dual active 00:07:15.069 --> 00:07:19.029 with three carrier plus one carrier. So they're 00:07:19.029 --> 00:07:22.529 able to aggregate those. And then they also talk 00:07:22.529 --> 00:07:25.910 more about their AI powered data traffic engine, 00:07:26.129 --> 00:07:29.199 which. to me looks very similar to what they're 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.500 doing on the wifi side with AI kind of using 00:07:32.500 --> 00:07:39.079 AI to control and improve the quality of the 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.819 service, which inherently results in better performance 00:07:43.819 --> 00:07:47.019 and battery life. And then MediaTek also with 00:07:47.019 --> 00:07:50.639 their M90, they focus very much on power. And 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.240 they said that they were able to actually don't 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:54.899 see in the release, but I went through the materials 00:07:54.899 --> 00:07:57.930 pretty deeply, but they're able to. boost uplink 00:07:57.930 --> 00:08:01.470 performance by up to 20%. They're also able to 00:08:01.470 --> 00:08:05.290 improve power and they also boost data throughput 00:08:05.290 --> 00:08:09.170 with 24 % with their AI enhanced accelerator. 00:08:09.410 --> 00:08:11.149 I think this is also their second generation 00:08:11.149 --> 00:08:15.850 of their modem accelerated AI or AI accelerated 00:08:15.850 --> 00:08:18.310 modem. And then they also said that their new 00:08:18.310 --> 00:08:21.250 UltraSafe 4 .0 reduces average power consumption 00:08:21.250 --> 00:08:24.430 by 18%. compared to the last generation. So lots 00:08:24.430 --> 00:08:26.910 of power savings, lots of performance. They also 00:08:26.910 --> 00:08:30.449 made a quick series of achievements where they 00:08:30.449 --> 00:08:34.230 said that they were able to do five GNR, FR1 00:08:34.230 --> 00:08:37.409 plus FR2 connectivity at 11 .6 gigabit per second 00:08:37.409 --> 00:08:40.429 with Keysight. And they showed six carrier with 00:08:40.429 --> 00:08:44.789 getting 5 .5 gigabits per second with just, I 00:08:44.789 --> 00:08:47.769 think it was just sub six. And then they were 00:08:47.769 --> 00:08:50.809 also able to show 10 gigabits per second on a 00:08:50.809 --> 00:08:54.470 live network with Telstra and Ericsson. So M90 00:08:54.470 --> 00:08:56.970 is really powerful. It is also a millimeter wave. 00:08:57.090 --> 00:09:01.149 Right now, Qualcomm and MediaTek are the only 00:09:01.149 --> 00:09:04.009 ones in town with millimeter wave support on 00:09:04.009 --> 00:09:08.110 their modems. As we know, the Apple C1 does not 00:09:08.110 --> 00:09:11.429 support millimeter wave. And it's quite clear 00:09:11.429 --> 00:09:15.649 that MediaTek and Qualcomm are way far ahead 00:09:15.649 --> 00:09:18.539 of where Apple is. And it will be interesting 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.539 to see how Apple follows Qualcomm and MediaTek 00:09:22.539 --> 00:09:26.440 in the modem business. I would expect that the 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:28.879 majority of these modems will be paired with 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.460 the company's SoCs on mobile. But it will be 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:35.679 interesting to see where these modems end up 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.360 outside of smartphones. And yeah, both these 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.600 modems have NTN, satellite connectivity capabilities, 00:09:42.940 --> 00:09:47.049 both for IoT and NR. so it'll be really interesting 00:09:47.049 --> 00:09:49.929 to see how devices will come out with this probably 00:09:49.929 --> 00:09:52.809 late this year that's in the phases like november 00:09:52.809 --> 00:09:54.830 december is when we'll see modem these modems 00:09:54.830 --> 00:09:59.570 and devices um and that means is mostly going 00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:03.090 to be a 26 story that means in 2026 most flagship 00:10:03.090 --> 00:10:07.740 phones will have full ntn capability Yeah. It's 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:10.659 impressive how Qualcomm continues to drive improved 00:10:10.659 --> 00:10:14.580 performance in lower power. And to your point, 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:16.919 Apple is just getting started. It's taken them 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.860 five plus years to get where they're at today, 00:10:21.059 --> 00:10:24.259 testing the waters. We talked about that. It's 00:10:24.259 --> 00:10:27.440 interesting also to see Qualcomm really branding 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.460 as well. I guess you're getting a delivery. Morty's 00:10:30.460 --> 00:10:33.590 excited. But no, it's all good stuff, my friend. 00:10:33.649 --> 00:10:35.330 I tell you what, we're just having a heck of 00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:39.029 a time this week with the podcast, but it's all 00:10:39.029 --> 00:10:42.909 good. But with that, I'm going to go to my second 00:10:42.909 --> 00:10:46.330 topic as Anshul answers the door. And I want 00:10:46.330 --> 00:10:48.990 to talk about AMD, Cisco, Nokia, and Reliance. 00:10:49.649 --> 00:10:53.049 Jaya launching the Open Telecom AI platform at 00:10:53.049 --> 00:10:56.250 Mobile World Congress 2025. So I had an opportunity 00:10:56.250 --> 00:11:00.370 actually to attend this briefing. It was... It 00:11:00.370 --> 00:11:03.370 was a very closed door affair. There were only 00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:05.990 a few analysts that were invited. I was lucky 00:11:05.990 --> 00:11:09.730 enough to be included. And what I learned was 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.090 that Matthew Uman, who's the CEO of Reliance 00:11:13.090 --> 00:11:16.529 Jio, was really the person that drove this and 00:11:16.529 --> 00:11:19.330 brought AMD together, brought Cisco together 00:11:19.330 --> 00:11:23.139 and Nokia together to do this. The desire on 00:11:23.139 --> 00:11:26.179 Reliance's part is to democratize the access 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:31.080 to modern AI and do that through its effective, 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:34.039 highly disaggregated networking infrastructure. 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:36.759 And Anshul, you and I have talked about Reliance 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:39.100 in the past. They are an innovator. They were 00:11:39.100 --> 00:11:41.779 able to build their 5G network from the ground 00:11:41.779 --> 00:11:45.159 up, Greenfield, within 11 months. And from my 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.340 perspective, I have little doubt that Reliance 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:51.000 can be a catalyst to make this initiative successful, 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:54.940 just given their modern approach to network deployment. 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:59.379 And an amazing stat is that Reliance has nearly 00:11:59.379 --> 00:12:02.940 500 million subscribers. And so the opportunity 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:06.039 to leverage this and really drive it widely is 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:09.340 pretty exciting. And there weren't a lot of details 00:12:09.340 --> 00:12:11.799 about applications and use cases, but suffice 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:13.879 it to say, it's going to be very telecom focused. 00:12:14.509 --> 00:12:16.429 And so it'll be interesting to see how everything 00:12:16.429 --> 00:12:20.889 winds out over time. With that, I'm still waiting 00:12:20.889 --> 00:12:24.710 on Anshul. There he is. I was tap dancing. It's 00:12:24.710 --> 00:12:26.490 way worse than you think. It's actually, they 00:12:26.490 --> 00:12:29.769 shut off the gas in our entire complex because 00:12:29.769 --> 00:12:33.230 somebody left one of the gas grills on. And they 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:35.870 now have to go from every single apartment and 00:12:35.870 --> 00:12:40.049 check all of the gas stoves. And then also... 00:12:40.509 --> 00:12:43.009 re -ignite all of the water heaters. So it's 00:12:43.009 --> 00:12:44.669 way worse than you think. It's not a package. 00:12:44.769 --> 00:12:47.570 I wish it was. No, I think it's really cool to 00:12:47.570 --> 00:12:50.190 see that all of these big titans in the industry 00:12:50.190 --> 00:12:52.789 are working together to launch something like 00:12:52.789 --> 00:12:56.809 the Open Telecom AI platform. And I think a lot 00:12:56.809 --> 00:12:58.509 of the industry is just realizing that they need 00:12:58.509 --> 00:13:01.870 to work together to be successful and achieve 00:13:01.870 --> 00:13:05.210 the full potential of what the industry needs 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:09.330 to do on AI. And I think there's lots of room. 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:13.000 for growth. But I also think that we've had a 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:14.639 lot of these different partnerships happen in 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.519 the past on different topics. So it doesn't necessarily 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:20.279 mean there will be success. But I think when 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.159 you look at who's involved, Reliance to Geo is 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:27.120 a huge player in the space. And it's in their 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:29.840 best interest to have something that's open and 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:32.240 standardized. And I think that we will continue 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:34.419 to move in that direction regardless of who's 00:13:34.419 --> 00:13:36.759 involved. And this only enables more companies 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:40.100 to join the effort if they stay open. Yeah, I 00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:43.120 agree. Very good insight there, my friend. Hey, 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:44.860 let's go to your second topic and hopefully the 00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:47.519 door doesn't ring again. You want to talk about 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:50.720 Ericsson partnering with T -Mobile and Qualcomm 00:13:50.720 --> 00:14:13.059 for 5GXR trials. Qualcomm using a 5G device, 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.940 like a smartphone, tethered to AR glasses. And 00:14:16.940 --> 00:14:19.700 they're using HoloLite as the XR streaming service. 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.539 And they're basically able to use network slicing, 00:14:22.820 --> 00:14:25.820 which included uplink configured grant, low latency, 00:14:25.980 --> 00:14:29.539 and L4S, as well as other advanced schedulers 00:14:29.539 --> 00:14:33.519 to enhance the streaming quality from the cloud 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:35.879 into the glasses through the smartphone device 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:38.399 that was tethered to the glasses. And I think 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:40.409 just... What it's cool is it's showing that T 00:14:40.409 --> 00:14:43.210 -Mobile's standalone 5G network is ready for 00:14:43.210 --> 00:14:45.929 this, but also that Qualcomm already has the 00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:49.309 capability and that T -Mobile's network is ready 00:14:49.309 --> 00:14:52.769 to go to do this. So it's sending a signal, I 00:14:52.769 --> 00:14:56.330 think, to the market that the groundwork is there 00:14:56.330 --> 00:14:59.190 and that even commercial companies like T -Mobile 00:14:59.190 --> 00:15:02.289 and HoloLite are partnering in making this possible. 00:15:02.590 --> 00:15:07.379 So it's not just Ericsson, Qualcomm. and T -Mobile 00:15:07.379 --> 00:15:09.679 in a lab, right? It's very different from doing 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:12.019 it in a lab. Personally, I want to see this in 00:15:12.019 --> 00:15:14.419 person. I live in San Diego where this is being 00:15:14.419 --> 00:15:17.500 tested, so I'm going to do my best to reach out 00:15:17.500 --> 00:15:19.759 to Qualcomm and get a chance to try this out 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.480 for myself. But until then, it's just exciting 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.960 to see T -Mobile, Ericsson and Qualcomm working 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:26.860 together to do something on a commercial network 00:15:26.860 --> 00:15:30.480 for future use cases. Hey, let me ask you, because 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.759 I didn't catch this news, the payload was so 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.519 immense at the event. And by the way, it was 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.779 a record attendee. It was, I think, over 109 00:15:38.779 --> 00:15:42.639 ,000 folks attended MWC. But I'm assuming that 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:44.799 these trials, were they focused on enterprise 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:47.980 use cases or were they consumer use cases or 00:15:47.980 --> 00:15:53.220 both? So they didn't say what kind of use cases 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.409 they were trialing. It specifically said. These 00:15:56.409 --> 00:16:02.509 were XR 5G trials for AI and AR and the feasibility 00:16:02.509 --> 00:16:06.070 of using a slim four factor goggles, like really 00:16:06.070 --> 00:16:09.529 thin and light goggles and testing the 5G infrastructure 00:16:09.529 --> 00:16:13.950 and the smartphones to enable low latency opportunities 00:16:13.950 --> 00:16:17.230 and applications through these super light glasses. 00:16:17.350 --> 00:16:19.049 Because right now, one of the biggest problems 00:16:19.049 --> 00:16:21.870 for thin and light AR glasses is. Where does 00:16:21.870 --> 00:16:23.309 the compute come from? Does it come from the 00:16:23.309 --> 00:16:25.590 phone? Does it come from the edge? Does it come 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:27.549 from the cloud? The reality is that like right 00:16:27.549 --> 00:16:30.029 now, there isn't enough edge compute in place 00:16:30.029 --> 00:16:33.149 to power those glasses. So you have to have some 00:16:33.149 --> 00:16:35.129 kind of compute, whether it's a puck or a smartphone, 00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:37.809 connecting to the 5G network and then pulling 00:16:37.809 --> 00:16:40.710 in more compute from the edge or from the cloud. 00:16:40.950 --> 00:16:42.669 And I think that's really what they're testing 00:16:42.669 --> 00:16:44.509 out is like, how viable is this? How does this 00:16:44.509 --> 00:16:46.950 work? Because truthfully, we can't have super 00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:50.269 thin like AR glasses without. distributed compute 00:16:50.269 --> 00:16:52.990 in other places and getting that latency low 00:16:52.990 --> 00:16:55.250 enough where we can actually distribute the compute 00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:57.429 between the phone, between the glasses and between 00:16:57.429 --> 00:17:00.289 the edge and maybe even pull deeper into the 00:17:00.289 --> 00:17:02.590 cloud if necessary. So I think that's what this 00:17:02.590 --> 00:17:04.130 is really showing off, that this is feasible 00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:06.730 and this is viable because people want thin and 00:17:06.730 --> 00:17:08.049 light glasses. They don't want to wear helmets. 00:17:08.470 --> 00:17:10.309 Yeah, because it got me thinking. I remember 00:17:10.309 --> 00:17:12.910 very early on in 2018, I think you and I were 00:17:12.910 --> 00:17:15.609 in the same meetings with Qualcomm and they were 00:17:15.609 --> 00:17:17.910 showing us these. these sort of mixed reality 00:17:17.910 --> 00:17:21.049 use cases, like for first responders and firefighters 00:17:21.049 --> 00:17:23.650 and that sort of thing. So I think the other 00:17:23.650 --> 00:17:26.289 challenge too is with thin and light, you've 00:17:26.289 --> 00:17:29.089 got a smaller battery as well, right? And some 00:17:29.089 --> 00:17:31.009 of these workloads and some of these applications 00:17:31.009 --> 00:17:33.789 can be, that are very compute intensive, can 00:17:33.789 --> 00:17:36.349 really draw the battery life. We were just talking 00:17:36.349 --> 00:17:39.150 about Qualcomm and how amazing their engineering 00:17:39.150 --> 00:17:41.769 team is with respect to power management and 00:17:41.769 --> 00:17:44.319 performance and that sort of thing. there's the 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:48.640 whole nature of physics as well. Yes. It all 00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.420 kind of factors together. But hey, let's hit 00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:53.420 my third and final topic. And I want to talk 00:17:53.420 --> 00:17:56.539 about security. And this is an area I think that 00:17:56.539 --> 00:17:58.720 the telecom industry continues to struggle with. 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.359 And I'm not going to fault what they have to 00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:06.799 deal with given the vast number of devices that 00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.900 operate on their networks. It's just amazing. 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.700 It creates a threat surface that's just unbelievably 00:18:12.700 --> 00:18:16.860 big that's easily attacked by bad actors. And 00:18:16.860 --> 00:18:19.660 more and more improvements have been pumped into 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:23.420 the industry to address this. There's a lot of 00:18:23.420 --> 00:18:25.980 focus on zero trust and least privilege access 00:18:25.980 --> 00:18:29.500 and that sort of thing. 5G new radio does improve 00:18:29.500 --> 00:18:32.859 encryption significantly over 4G LTE, but more 00:18:32.859 --> 00:18:35.900 is needed. And so I got to sit down with Palo 00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:37.960 Alto Networks while they were at Mobile World 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:42.730 Congress. I actually was able to record a 6 .5 00:18:42.730 --> 00:18:45.509 media video. So we'll include the link to that 00:18:45.509 --> 00:18:47.529 for our viewers and listeners if you're interested 00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:50.750 in learning more. But what Palo Alto Networks 00:18:50.750 --> 00:18:54.190 announced was their Prisma SASE 5G solution. 00:18:55.430 --> 00:18:59.410 SASE is SD -WAN that is imbued with security 00:18:59.410 --> 00:19:03.089 features. And what I really like about the offering 00:19:03.089 --> 00:19:07.109 is that it provides, again, another layer level 00:19:07.109 --> 00:19:11.250 of security protection. beyond just 5G new radio 00:19:11.250 --> 00:19:14.509 encryption, but it also at the same time provides 00:19:14.509 --> 00:19:17.410 a very innovative solution for service providers 00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:20.269 to monetize. And why I think this is different 00:19:20.269 --> 00:19:23.390 than other mobile network operators have offered 00:19:23.390 --> 00:19:26.230 SASE services for quite some time, but typically 00:19:26.230 --> 00:19:29.109 that's just been a white label. Versa has been 00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:31.509 really big in this. They work with mobile network 00:19:31.509 --> 00:19:34.069 operators. They can repackage their solution 00:19:34.069 --> 00:19:36.970 and resell it. But there's really nothing there 00:19:36.970 --> 00:19:40.250 that's necessarily tuned to 5G. So Palo Alto 00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:44.509 Networks has focused on 5G, the whole notion 00:19:44.509 --> 00:19:47.549 of mobility and providing a platform that allows 00:19:47.549 --> 00:19:50.269 an enterprise to manage this over wired and wireless 00:19:50.269 --> 00:19:53.920 networks. And again, it presents a very unique 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:56.460 monetization opportunity for mobile network operators 00:19:56.460 --> 00:19:59.859 as well. So I'll leave it at that. I go a little 00:19:59.859 --> 00:20:03.279 bit deeper with an executive in that 6 .5 Media 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:05.960 video. But at a high level, I think we're going 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:08.799 to start hearing more and more about purpose 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.400 -built security when it comes to mobile networks, 00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:15.640 and especially given the momentum that we're 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.150 seeing behind industrial IoT. and the need to 00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:22.450 secure not thousands of devices, but hundreds 00:20:22.450 --> 00:20:24.589 of thousands of devices at scale. I don't know 00:20:24.589 --> 00:20:26.869 if you caught that news, if you caught my video, 00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:29.049 but any thoughts there before we move to your 00:20:29.049 --> 00:20:32.299 third topic? No, I definitely did not catch that. 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.559 It's also been quite a busy week for me, even 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:36.799 though I wasn't at MWC having to cover all of 00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:40.079 it. A lot going on, but I will go back and watch 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.400 the video to educate myself and have our audience 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:46.599 does as well. But I'll move on to my last and 00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:51.460 final topic with MWC device wrap up is the best 00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:53.720 way of putting it. There were a lot of devices. 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:58.180 One, I'm going to go fast. Xiaomi announced the 00:20:58.180 --> 00:21:01.599 Buds Pro 5, which actually utilized Wi -Fi for 00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.440 lossless audio. It uses this new technology from 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:06.880 Qualcomm called X -Pan, which has actually been 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.640 around for a while, but nobody's implemented 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.000 in earbuds. Basically, you could just walk around 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.920 your whole house and your earbuds will never 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.680 disconnect from your phone. And then there was 00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.420 the Xiaomi Concept Phone. which is a Xiaomi 15 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:21.680 that has an attachable micro four thirds lens 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:24.579 that magnetizes to your phone and uses a fiber 00:21:24.579 --> 00:21:27.119 optic connection to your phone. So your phone 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:28.920 thinks it's just another camera lens. It's not 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.880 an accessory. Then we had real me do something 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.700 similar with an interchangeable lens as well 00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:38.200 with an even bigger sensor. Then we had the Lenovo 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.259 think book flip, which was a, it's a regular 00:21:41.259 --> 00:21:44.940 14 inch laptop that then. and it becomes an 18 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:47.180 -inch. So there's a second screen hiding behind 00:21:47.180 --> 00:21:49.200 the main screen. Oh, dude, I want to demo that. 00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:51.460 What you want is the roll, which is what they 00:21:51.460 --> 00:21:54.519 had at CES where it rolls into a 16 -inch. That's 00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:56.039 actually a commercial laptop coming out in June. 00:21:56.500 --> 00:22:01.000 Then there was this Arzen Flip, which is a tri 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.420 -fold projector that fits in your pocket. It 00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:06.680 literally folds into nothing, like a puck that 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:10.279 fits in your hand. And then there was a Lenovo 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:14.759 Solar laptop. That one is the solar PC concept. 00:22:14.980 --> 00:22:17.000 And I saw a video of it. Basically, it's like 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.480 charges about three watts. So you can basically 00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:21.519 like use a laptop and when you close it, just 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.319 leave it in the sun and it will charge back up. 00:22:23.539 --> 00:22:25.740 It's not really enough power to charge it like 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:29.259 all day or to use it in that scenario. But like 00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:31.960 you can use it like sporadically. And like for 00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:33.579 me, as someone who doesn't use a laptop very 00:22:33.579 --> 00:22:35.940 often, unless they're traveling, just leave it 00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:38.819 out there and it will charge passively. And then 00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:42.500 there was Lenovo announced the new. actual real 00:22:42.500 --> 00:22:46.279 product thinkpad x13 and then infinix also has 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:49.660 a solar powered phone and then realme nothing 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:52.740 phone 3a and 3a pro were announced which is like 00:22:52.740 --> 00:22:56.039 a more of a budget phone. And there was Techno 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:58.460 Spark who did the Slim, which is yet another 00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:00.519 ultra slim phone. That's going to be a very common 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.160 trend this year than phones. Samsung's going 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:04.960 to have one. Techno's going to have one. Apple's 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.140 going to have one. I think it's a silly thing 00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:09.380 because people put cases on their phones. And 00:23:09.380 --> 00:23:11.160 on top of that, you give up a lot of features 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:13.400 in most of these scenarios. I don't really think 00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:16.220 it's a great idea, but I think it's a good engineering 00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:20.059 exercise to help build thinner foldables so that 00:23:20.059 --> 00:23:23.480 when the phones... fold up then you get a phone 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.440 that's as thin as a regular phone which is exactly 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.420 what the opel find n5 is which was announced 00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:33.299 a few weeks ago and then other than that lenovo 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:35.920 also showed off a concept called magic bay which 00:23:35.920 --> 00:23:38.019 has different capabilities but there's one that 00:23:38.019 --> 00:23:41.259 allows you to attach a an attachment in the back 00:23:41.259 --> 00:23:43.920 of the laptop and it gives you two more displays 00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.779 on the sides you get like a three display laptop 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:48.480 It's nothing necessarily new, but it's the first 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.599 time an actual laptop OEM has introduced something 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.579 like that, as opposed to some random third party 00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:55.500 that makes you plug in all these weird cables. 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.000 And then Samsung had a ton of different foldable 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.710 concepts. They had one that was like. A dual 00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.210 fold concept where it folds at different parts 00:24:03.210 --> 00:24:05.150 of the phone, not in the middle, but like at 00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:06.869 the top and the bottom, which I don't think anybody 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:09.109 needs. But then they also showed a handheld gaming 00:24:09.109 --> 00:24:13.049 device that folds in half, which I thought was 00:24:13.049 --> 00:24:16.190 cool. And yeah, that's my rapid fire from what 00:24:16.190 --> 00:24:18.869 I remember seeing. But yeah, there was a lot 00:24:18.869 --> 00:24:21.450 going on. Lots of thin phones, lots of camera 00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:25.349 mods. And yeah, I think I... Oh, there was also 00:24:25.349 --> 00:24:28.289 a briefcase. that Samsung was showing off where 00:24:28.289 --> 00:24:30.789 you open the briefcase and you get a full size 00:24:30.789 --> 00:24:33.849 screen that kind of opens on the top and bottom 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:35.569 and you can use it as like a portable display 00:24:35.569 --> 00:24:41.750 that just pops open. Sounds like CES, man. That's 00:24:41.750 --> 00:24:43.910 the sort of stuff that you typically see at CES, 00:24:44.009 --> 00:24:45.690 right? So they were holding this stuff back. 00:24:45.730 --> 00:24:47.890 I would say a lot of these things probably should 00:24:47.890 --> 00:24:50.910 have been shown at CES, but probably didn't make 00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:53.670 the cut for January. That has been the case for 00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:55.130 a lot of things, but I would say some of these 00:24:55.130 --> 00:24:58.440 mobile stuff. very much MWC. But some of these 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:00.759 things are just prototypes. And I think there 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:02.740 were maybe prototypes didn't make the cut for 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:06.119 CES. Yeah. Cool, man. Hey, it's been another 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:08.759 great podcast. I was having to meet a lot as 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:11.119 I'm getting through this call, but I'm glad we 00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:13.779 were able to get it done. And let's take it home. 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:16.420 Absolutely. We hope our viewers and listeners 00:25:16.420 --> 00:25:18.799 found this week's talk was interesting. We hope 00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:21.220 if you have any insights for a specific 5G topic 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:23.119 for a future podcast, please reach out to us 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:26.130 on social media. Will's at Will .Tech, and I'm 00:25:26.130 --> 00:25:28.349 at EntreSag. We hope you have a great rest of 00:25:28.349 --> 00:25:30.750 your week, and please tune in again, hopefully 00:25:30.750 --> 00:25:33.369 later this week, and don't forget to rate us 00:25:33.369 --> 00:25:33.750 and subscribe.