1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 and more live. 2 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000 All right. 3 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,120 To our viewers and listeners, welcome. 4 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:10,720 We're broadcasting these podcasts live and this is episode 212 of the GT on 5G. 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,540 It's the latest in site scoop on everything 5G. 6 00:00:13,540 --> 00:00:17,920 We cover six topics in about 20 minutes and it's brought to you by more insights and strategy. 7 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,080 I'm Will Townsend and joining me again this week is subtle analyst Anshul Sag. 8 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:28,480 Let's get started with my first topic and it is around open round and could the second 9 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,780 Trump administration boost open round deployment. 10 00:00:31,780 --> 00:00:35,460 So there's been a lot of discussion recently. 11 00:00:35,460 --> 00:00:42,920 This week is inauguration week and our friend Mike Dano at Light Reading and an article 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,800 it just to review things under Trump's first administration, $1.5 billion were earmarked 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,240 for open round. 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,780 There was a lot of activity against the open round policy coalition. 15 00:00:54,780 --> 00:00:59,920 They drive a billion dollars in infrastructure investment and I don't know, China likes, 16 00:00:59,920 --> 00:01:01,840 Trump likes to pronounce China. 17 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,080 That's the way he, he pronounces the country's name. 18 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,320 And this was something that was very important to him to eliminate Chinese infrastructure 19 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:15,100 in the telecommunications industry, given that it is critical infrastructure. 20 00:01:15,100 --> 00:01:18,240 So that's just the question I wanted to pose with you Anshul. 21 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:23,340 Do you think that open round could see a boost now that Trump's been reelected? 22 00:01:23,340 --> 00:01:24,480 Here's my take. 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,920 I think that was already going to happen. 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,560 I think let's say Harris won instead of Trump. 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,920 I still think we would have gone down this path. 26 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,400 I think with Trump, we might go down this path a little faster. 27 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,680 I think there might be a little bit more money and a little bit more political capital behind 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,400 making this happen. 29 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:48,500 So I think it'll happen faster under Trump, but I don't think it will, it'll necessarily 30 00:01:48,500 --> 00:01:50,120 be different. 31 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,160 I think the only thing that might be different is maybe the terms of how it gets done might 32 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,280 be more beneficial to Trump and his colleagues, but that's about it. 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:04,640 I think, I think realistically we've already seen this shift happening with AT&T and Ericsson. 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,640 And I just think that the industry is moving in that direction. 35 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,760 And I think it'll just, it'll move there faster under Trump. 36 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:16,800 I want to talk a little bit in my second topic about doubling down on AI and what the administration 37 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,240 is going to be doing there as well. 38 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,080 I'll just make it a political podcast this week. 39 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:28,960 But from my perspective, speeding it, moving most of these deployments from single vendor 40 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,680 to multi-vendor could drive economic gain. 41 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,760 And that's certainly what I think Trump's going to be focused on is job creation and 42 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,280 that sort of thing. 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:46,720 In addition to domesticating the supply chain for 5G and future 6G and other deployments 44 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,840 down the road, but yeah, it's an interesting topic. 45 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:54,340 I think you and I have talked about the fact that a billion and a half dollars doesn't 46 00:02:54,340 --> 00:02:59,480 significantly move the needle, especially when you look at the prevalence of Chinese 47 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,640 infrastructure, primarily in rural populations. 48 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,840 But yeah, it'll be super interesting to see how it all plays out. 49 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,820 But let's move to your first topic. 50 00:03:08,820 --> 00:03:13,600 One of the reasons why you're dressed so nicely for this recording and you're in a hotel 51 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:18,600 room is that Samsung held its unpacked event that you attended and you want to provide 52 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,960 your insights into what you found most compelling. 53 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:28,360 Yeah, I also just got out of recording a video for the 6.5 as well. 54 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:35,160 We did a recording with Brad Pezinski from Samsung, head of their business side of Samsung. 55 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,560 And it was a very interesting launch because they announced the 25 series. 56 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,960 I actually have mine already in hand. 57 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,840 This is the S25 Ultra. 58 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,360 And they obviously they upgraded the processor to the latest Snapdragon, but it's like semi 59 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:51,680 custom Snapdragon. 60 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:58,840 So it's actually the Snapdragon 8 Elite, but it has a custom ISP for special camera features 61 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,320 that Samsung wanted. 62 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:05,880 And it also has a integrated display controller that's normally not on the chip, but for saving 63 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,080 power purposes is on chip. 64 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,920 It's also clocked a little bit higher than the standard Snapdragon 8 Elite. 65 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,760 So Samsung does have a very specific unique processor. 66 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:19,960 And as a result of that, this processor is going to be in all 25 phones. 67 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:26,920 So 25, 25 plus and 25 Ultra all get the Snapdragon 8 Elite and it's globally Snapdragon 8 Elite. 68 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,960 So there's no Samsung Exynos in any region. 69 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:34,680 And that's going to be really good for AI performance because AI is once again at the 70 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,440 center of things, but Samsung is actually really leaning into AI in a way that I don't 71 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,920 think anybody has done so far because last year they obviously announced and introduced 72 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,080 Galaxy AI, but it lacked some things. 73 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,400 And the most popular feature was circle to search and that feature was available on multiple 74 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:52,400 phones. 75 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,600 So it wasn't really that unique, but it was first on Samsung and Pixel. 76 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:03,880 And now they have this on-device agent that provides this capability that it works with 77 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,240 Gemini, but it also works with your on-device apps. 78 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,320 And it protects it with this personal data engine. 79 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:17,360 It provides these like now briefs and these daily summaries and morning summaries and 80 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,000 it will perform actions for you. 81 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,040 And then on top of that, there's a call transcripts and writing assists and there's all these 82 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,240 different AI capabilities that are going to make things more enjoyable. 83 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,360 And actually I'm the most excited about because I think I'm very forgetful. 84 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,840 And I think there's a lot of ways that this could really help me improve my life. 85 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,880 And I think that you don't really know what it's like until you try it. 86 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,860 But on top of that, they did upgrade the camera. 87 00:05:42,860 --> 00:05:47,360 So the ultra wide, which I think is up here, that's now a 50 megapixel camera. 88 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,080 And the reason why that's a big deal is because a lot of the cool camera features utilize 89 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,480 multiple lenses and sensors and having the ultra wide be a higher resolution means macro 90 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:56,480 photos are better. 91 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:57,880 Low light photos are better. 92 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:03,300 Digital zoom is better and like in-camera stabilization for videos also better. 93 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:08,520 So it's going to be missed by some people that the ultra wide has a higher resolution 94 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,780 on the ultra, but it's actually a big deal. 95 00:06:10,780 --> 00:06:13,640 So I'm really excited how that's going to pan out. 96 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:17,240 Top of the line 5G, X80 modem from Qualcomm. 97 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,680 What's really interesting and this kind of got buried. 98 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,160 There's going to be Snapdragon satellite lives. 99 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,480 It's not dead like we thought it was. 100 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,680 And Snapdragon satellite is launching on this phone. 101 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,200 I'm still trying to get some details from Qualcomm. 102 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,840 Is it SOS like Apple's solution? 103 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:41,880 So from what I gathered in my conversation with Qualcomm, I asked them about this specific 104 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:49,400 feature and I got like a pretty detailed response saying that it is NTN from Skylo and it's 105 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,040 using narrow band. 106 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,600 It does support native satellite messaging in Android and that it's a standards based 107 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,920 implementation, which would the previous Snapdragon was not. 108 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,800 It seems like it's a messaging platform as well and it's going to compete with all the 109 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,280 other solutions out there. 110 00:07:04,280 --> 00:07:09,480 But I do feel like this might just be Samsung solution in places where the carrier doesn't 111 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:10,680 offer it. 112 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:11,680 Okay. 113 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:19,120 It really seems to me that given the widespread deployment of that custom semi custom Qualcomm 114 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:25,520 Snapdragon solution that Samsung really wants to lean very aggressively into AI. 115 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,880 Is that sort of your interpretation as well? 116 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:36,840 Yeah, I think they recognize that the Snapdragon solution for the SOC is superior in GPU, it's 117 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,440 superior in CPU and it's superior in AI. 118 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,120 So they really wanted to lean into the more performant power efficient and this is our 119 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:44,920 first three nanometer chip as well. 120 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,320 So it's the best of both worlds for Samsung. 121 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:53,440 And if they can get a few features that they would have otherwise had on this semi custom 122 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,000 SOC, then I think they're much happier. 123 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Yeah. 124 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:02,120 And I think being uniform, like you said, on a global basis, that greatly simplifies 125 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,240 the supply chain, right? 126 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,240 Totally. 127 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,560 And it also helps developers know that they're going to have to only build to one SOC globally 128 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:17,560 and they won't have to do an Exynos with whatever GPU they say to use and then a Snapdragon. 129 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,000 So I think that's a net positive as well. 130 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,480 Yeah, I know for sure. 131 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:22,480 Yeah. 132 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,600 Supply chain simplification is super important in cost optimization that comes along with 133 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,560 that, but making it easier for developers to develop applications as well and time to 134 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:36,280 market because correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that given the market 135 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:43,800 share developers tend to code to iOS first and then Android second. 136 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:45,460 Is that still the case? 137 00:08:45,460 --> 00:08:50,760 It's less the case now than it used to be, but that definitely was the prevailing way 138 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,680 that developers launched a new application. 139 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:59,580 I think it still does happen from time to time, but generally speaking, a very competent 140 00:08:59,580 --> 00:09:01,520 developer usually launches on both. 141 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,520 Got it. 142 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:03,520 Cool. 143 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,560 Hey, let's go to my second topic and this is really big news and you got to believe 144 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:15,080 that this was in the works before Trump was sworn in this week, but Stargate, the Stargate 145 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:21,640 project, this is a really ambitious AI infrastructure program. 146 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,720 It's actually the Stargate project is a company. 147 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:30,960 It's a joint venture and initially there's going to be a hundred billion dollars in investment 148 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:37,680 and building out AI enabled data centers with a long-term goal of getting to half a trillion 149 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:38,960 dollars. 150 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:40,680 This is huge. 151 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:42,600 I read the press release on this first broke. 152 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:49,520 I just shared it on my social media channels, but one of the underlying considerations is 153 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,880 the creation of over a hundred thousand new jobs. 154 00:09:53,880 --> 00:10:00,840 This is a huge, from my perspective, pivot from the prior administration that wanted 155 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:06,200 to put guardrails on AI and have model validation through the federal government, which would 156 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,560 probably have been a huge disaster. 157 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:16,040 I think with the signals that Trump wants to double down, certainly it's a gold mine 158 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:21,480 for the United States when you look at the ecosystem players and everyone that's participating 159 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,560 in this, it's primarily American companies as well. 160 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:31,960 It just got me thinking, and because you and I have talked about this, can 5G be pivotal 161 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,920 in a part of what's going on here? 162 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:40,040 Certainly the networks have already been built out, but certainly the Trump administration 163 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:46,000 wants to ensure American leadership when it comes to modern AI generative, and there's 164 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:52,000 already a focus and discussion around agentic AI, which automates a lot of that functionality. 165 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:58,100 You and I have talked about on prior podcasts how as AI moves hybrid and it moves from large 166 00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:04,440 language models in the cloud to network edges, that 5G mobility could be really pivotal. 167 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,440 I think it will be. 168 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,120 I think hybrid will come into play here. 169 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:13,200 It's decidedly going to be probably a longer tail deployment, but let me ask you this. 170 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,600 I'm going to put you on the spot. 171 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:20,480 How in your mind could 5G play a pivotal role in all of this? 172 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:27,200 I'm so glad you asked because I've been teeing this up answer since you started at the beginning 173 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,120 of this topic. 174 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,880 I think it's going to be 5G ran. 175 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:37,320 We're going to see all these AI rands in 5G and 6G. 176 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,760 More likely it's going to be a 6G thing, but I think we're already starting to see a lot 177 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,760 of open-rand acceleration. 178 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,840 I think what we've seen with NVIDIA and T-Mobile is just the beginning. 179 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,800 I think those kinds of projects and those kinds of ambitions are going to be where I 180 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:52,880 think this investment will happen. 181 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:55,640 Verizon's already starting to embrace NVIDIA as well. 182 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:00,280 I think what's going to happen is we're going to see the US operators take AI by the horns 183 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:06,120 and use AI to accelerate 5G and 5G to permeate AI everywhere. 184 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,600 I didn't actually tell you this before we started the podcast. 185 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:15,080 I'm running this entire setup, including our current live stream through standalone 5G 186 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:20,160 on the TCL modem with the red cap inside of it. 187 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,760 So we're running this on a red cap right now. 188 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,640 Super stable, like 30, 30 megabits. 189 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:32,200 But I just wanted to add that this current podcast is live in 5G. 190 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:33,200 That's incredible, man. 191 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,360 We're sipping our own champagne and eating our own dog food. 192 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,320 In fact, I'm so confident that I am grabbing it right now and holding it. 193 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,200 And this is it right now. 194 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,960 It's powered through the USB port of my laptop. 195 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:51,760 What's also incredible, you're in a hotel and hotels are fraught with metal and things 196 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:52,760 that can create... 197 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,760 That's my window right there. 198 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,120 I made sure I had an outward-facing window. 199 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,120 Okay, good. 200 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,120 Good signal. 201 00:12:57,120 --> 00:12:59,680 But yes, this is on T-Mobile. 202 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:00,680 Super impressive, my friend. 203 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,400 Hey, let's go to your second topic. 204 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,400 And I caught this news. 205 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,320 In fact, I had suggested this topic to you. 206 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,720 But T-Mobile announced its T-Priority last year. 207 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:15,120 And this is a slice that's dedicated for first responders. 208 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,800 And we have talked about this on prior podcasts. 209 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:26,720 But I learned this week that T-Mobile activated it for the LA firefighters and first responders. 210 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:33,400 Yeah, so this is in addition to what they've already been doing with lighting up satellite 211 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:34,400 services. 212 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:35,400 I don't know if you saw... 213 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,200 I think we talked about this in the last podcast, that they had turned on satellite services 214 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,360 for specifically people and first responders. 215 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:50,120 They said that this was a 5GSA network slice specifically for 350 members of the LA Fire 216 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Department. 217 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,320 And this would be the second largest deployment of T-Priority since they announced it within 218 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,960 New York City first responders. 219 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,120 And yeah, they already have the standalone network. 220 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:06,280 And they said that they already got a lot of requests for Wi-Fi routers and hotspots 221 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,320 and devices on the network, and that the speeds have been so good that they're really happy 222 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:11,320 with it. 223 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,160 So it seems like it's making a difference. 224 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:18,840 And the truth is connectivity is always trying to solve problems. 225 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,160 And communications really need to happen over connectivity. 226 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,800 They're also doing lots of things to improve their network as a result of the fires and 227 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:31,520 getting the network back up and running in that area and making sure that people who 228 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:37,160 live or lived there are able to communicate with each other and their families and be 229 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,360 able to take advantage of T-Priority and the bandwidth it provides. 230 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,960 Well, and what I like about it is certainly we've talked on numerous podcasts about AT&T 231 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,260 and FirstNet. 232 00:14:48,260 --> 00:14:52,480 That is a dedicated separate network for first responders. 233 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,640 What I like about T-Priority, it provides another layer of connectivity rights for these 234 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:04,360 first responders to be able to use their personal devices to contact loved ones, friends and 235 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:05,360 family. 236 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,760 And it just supplements what FirstNet is providing. 237 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:14,400 I think it's a great demonstration of what a 5G standalone network can deliver. 238 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,440 And it is proving in my mind the promise of network slicing. 239 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:21,440 And I think there's more to come here as well. 240 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:22,440 Definitely. 241 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:27,880 Yeah, but hey, let's move to my third and final topic and I'll be quick about this. 242 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:33,800 I've been spending time with Nokia recently and understanding what they're doing around 243 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,120 autonomous networks. 244 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:41,000 And this applies for both traditional communication service providers and for the enterprise. 245 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:50,280 And initially, Nokia's vision was to bring higher levels of automation to network infrastructure 246 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:58,000 to reduce operational costs, but also improve outcomes through the application of modern 247 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,880 AI, like generative AI. 248 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,040 Analytics is a big part of that. 249 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,480 Security is a big part of that. 250 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:13,480 And the network programmability is the fourth leg of the table in all of this. 251 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:19,280 And I recently published a research paper that is available on the More Insights and 252 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,360 Strategy website for our viewers and listeners. 253 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,000 If you want to learn more about my insights related to Nokia's autonomous network vision, 254 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,800 go download that paper. 255 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:33,600 But with all of that said, that was in flight before all of the hoopla around Stargate and 256 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,600 that sort of thing. 257 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:41,680 So a lot of pundits in the industry, including myself, are theorizing that even though Nokia 258 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:49,840 was focused on doing this to bring operational efficiency to enterprises and operators, this 259 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:56,440 actually the timing is perfect to position them to participate in this gold rush that's 260 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,800 going to be this AI infrastructure build out with Stargate. 261 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,760 I'll also mention that late last year or earlier this year, I think it was late last year, 262 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:13,120 Microsoft announced a commitment to invest $80 billion on its own in building AI data 263 00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:16,960 centers to support Azure AI workloads. 264 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,080 We've talked about Nokia. 265 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:23,640 They've been up and down from a financial performance perspective, but it just gets 266 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:25,960 me thinking, and I want to get your thought on this. 267 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:32,040 Is this a ripe opportunity for Nokia to participate in all of this AI infrastructure spend? 268 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,520 Think about their fiber business. 269 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:35,520 That's an opportunity there. 270 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,520 They have optical strength, right? 271 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:37,520 Yeah. 272 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:38,520 And the transport. 273 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:39,520 Yeah. 274 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,000 And then there's also, there's tons of networking opportunities. 275 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,880 And I just think, yeah, they would be foolish not to take advantage of it. 276 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,620 But you reminded me that when you brought up Stargate, I didn't mention the infighting 277 00:17:52,620 --> 00:17:57,240 between Elon and OpenAI and saying that they don't have the money. 278 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,240 What? 279 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,240 You missed that Twitter. 280 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:00,240 When did you post that on Reddit? 281 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:01,240 In the Reddit thread? 282 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,280 No, OpenAI posted about Stargate and then Elon responded saying they don't have the 283 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:06,280 money. 284 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,920 And then Sam Altman responded saying, actually, we're building the first one already and you 285 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:11,920 can take it. 286 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:12,920 You can come over and check it out. 287 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:18,240 The children are fighting, but I think that the reality is that this is a big opportunity 288 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,040 and everybody wants a piece of it. 289 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:25,360 Hey, you know what's really interesting, if you dig into it and you look at who the initial 290 00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:31,640 partners are in this joint venture, Oracle is a partner. 291 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,040 And it's interesting because they're the only hyperscaler. 292 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,680 Obviously, Oracle does a lot more than Oracle Cloud Infrastructure, but they do through 293 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:46,600 OCI, they do have a telecom presence and they deliver telecom solutions. 294 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,480 But the other hyperscalers aren't a part of this. 295 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:56,080 And so it's interesting when you look at the stocks tied to these initial founding companies 296 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,880 within the JV, they were arm-popped. 297 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,440 Arm-popped big time too. 298 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,680 Oracle popped, Arm popped, they all popped, right? 299 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:08,640 Nvidia, by the way, Nvidia is back up, but everyone was expecting that given the direction 300 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:15,660 that we seem to be heading is a reversal of the Biden administration's guardrails on safe 301 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:16,660 and secure AI. 302 00:19:16,660 --> 00:19:18,800 So a lot of reversals to say the least. 303 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:28,600 I was also going to say, since you were pitching your paper, I have my non 5G related RTX 5090 304 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:35,720 review coming tomorrow morning, which is interesting because that's also an AI GPU that uses neural 305 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,520 rendering and it's going to be a very fun read if you're interested, but it is not 5G 306 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,400 related, but I just wanted to throw it out there. 307 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,120 Hey man, shameless plug. 308 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,320 I'm going to plug a couple other things too. 309 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:54,920 This is AI related, not necessarily 5G related, but I attended Cisco's AI Summit. 310 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,520 I have a more insights and strategy research note hopefully posted by the end of this week. 311 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,680 And this is telecom related. 312 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:09,080 I got to sit down with Jennifer Robertson that manages AT&T's mass markets business. 313 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,680 That's $90 billion of AT&T's annual revenue. 314 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,840 And we talked about how the company is up leveling the subscriber experience. 315 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,760 That is a Forbes piece that is probably going to post next week. 316 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,800 So two more gratuitous plugs for me. 317 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,200 So do you have another one you want to plug before we hit your third and final? 318 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,080 No, not quite, but I will have a review of this pretty soon. 319 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,080 There's no embargo. 320 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,080 So I'm going to be posting pretty frequently online. 321 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:39,900 Maybe I'll have a review up next week, but I'm destroying our editor and you are like 322 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:44,240 last year, you made us all embarrassed, man, that you set the bar. 323 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,520 So I'm getting my act together in the new year. 324 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:48,160 It's one of my new year's resolutions. 325 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:54,600 But okay, with all that said, let's talk about Nokia Final Time and they've launched a 5G 326 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,960 360 camera that you want to talk about. 327 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:57,960 Yes. 328 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,480 So a lot of people don't remember this, but Nokia actually bought a 360, actually they 329 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:09,320 didn't even buy, they built a 360 camera for VR and it was not very successful. 330 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,960 They wanted to use it for film. 331 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:18,360 But then today, literally today, actually, sorry, yesterday, they announced a 5G 360 332 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,160 camera for industrial and commercial applications. 333 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,960 And it makes sense because it uses 5G to stream the data. 334 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,080 It's 8K resolution at 30 FPS. 335 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,440 It's IP67 hardened in terms of thermals. 336 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:39,280 It uses their real time extended reality multimedia software, which they had already built. 337 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:45,600 And if you think about it, it's perfect for like monitoring work sites and just like having 338 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,980 information out there and being able to use AI to identify the right people that need 339 00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:53,280 to be on site or don't need to be on site. 340 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,880 And it's just like a pretty small camera, self-contained, powered over PoE, and it can 341 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,840 even, it uses cellular 5G or ethernet depending on what you need. 342 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:03,840 It's really cool. 343 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:04,840 It's compact. 344 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,800 I would love to see how this works in person. 345 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:12,840 I didn't see any pricing, but they did say that it will start shipping in Q2. 346 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:18,400 And the camera was actually already announced in December and I think just flew under everybody's 347 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,400 radar. 348 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,400 Yeah. 349 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:21,800 So it's completely self-contained, right? 350 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,400 So it does all the compute, all of that on the camera itself. 351 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,400 Cool. 352 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,440 Cisco has had something out there for quite some time through the Meraki portfolio. 353 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,360 I believe it's Snapdragon powered. 354 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:36,800 Dina, if this one's Snapdragon powered as well. 355 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,840 I didn't see, but it's entirely possible that it is. 356 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:48,480 I didn't really delve super deeply into what it can do and what its capabilities are. 357 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:55,960 I think that they're trying to have this be kind of part of their whole real time reality 358 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:01,840 and being able to have zero latency and just have something that's really powerful and 359 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,760 capable of monitoring in a complete solution. 360 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:10,680 I'm trying to pull up the data sheets on this as we speak. 361 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:16,360 And it looks like they're not telling us what processors inside of it, but it's got AK resolution 362 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,240 and all the 5G band support you could ask for. 363 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,920 But yeah, I can't find what processor is in it. 364 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:23,920 I've been digging. 365 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,640 I think this, I mean, it makes sense. 366 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,120 They're going to end with a lot of stuff. 367 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:33,880 We've talked about Nokia drones as well, 5G enabled drones and now cameras, and they're 368 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,720 building out a portfolio so they can provide a total solution to customers. 369 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,000 And I'm sure there's some synergies. 370 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:45,320 I'm sure there's some sort of management console where you can manage not only the underlying 371 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,520 infrastructure, but these attached devices as well. 372 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,520 Yeah, man, big news coming from Nokia over the last several weeks here. 373 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,760 But hey, my friend, it's been another great podcast. 374 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,520 This is our second live one. 375 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:03,280 I think I'm shaking all the cobwebs off because there are no redos or retakes here when we 376 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,720 do these, but why don't you take us home? 377 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:06,720 Absolutely. 378 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,840 I just want to say, I feel like we usually do these in one take anyways. 379 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:15,420 So it's not a huge deal if we make a small mistake, but then I have to edit it out later. 380 00:24:15,420 --> 00:24:18,080 So the less mistakes we make, the better for my editing. 381 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,440 Yeah, I just want to say thanks a lot for everybody who's listening and that if anyone 382 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,600 would like to reach out on a future podcast for a future topic, we're always listening 383 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,400 and we will hopefully be back next week. 384 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,400 I'm traveling this weekend. 385 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:34,480 Hopefully I'll be back next week. 386 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:39,920 But yeah, we really appreciate you guys and hope to have more 5G podcasts throughout the 387 00:24:39,920 --> 00:25:04,920 year.