1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,240 Welcome to episode 211 of the GTO on 5G. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,680 It's the latest insight scoop on everything 5G. 3 00:00:05,700 --> 00:00:08,260 We cover six topics in about 20 minutes and it's brought to you 4 00:00:08,260 --> 00:00:09,640 by More Insights and Strategy. 5 00:00:10,260 --> 00:00:13,440 I'm Will Townsend and joining me again this week is subtle analyst Anshul Sagh. 6 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:15,560 Let's get started with the podcast. 7 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,880 And my first topic this week is to talk about the mobile network operator 8 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,340 response to the Southern California wildfires. 9 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:23,400 This is tragic. 10 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,920 There are estimates that the damage could go well over 120 billion. 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,660 I have family, I have friends that live in Southern California. 12 00:00:31,660 --> 00:00:32,740 I'm sure you do as well. 13 00:00:32,740 --> 00:00:34,900 You're in, you're in San Diego, Anshul, right? 14 00:00:35,580 --> 00:00:35,820 Yeah. 15 00:00:36,260 --> 00:00:40,220 It's just super tragic what's going on in LA, but what we're going to talk 16 00:00:40,220 --> 00:00:44,420 about are what the MNOs are doing to address issues. 17 00:00:44,420 --> 00:00:46,260 So let's start with Verizon. 18 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:53,100 They're waiving domestic call text data usage from January 9th to the 18th, 19 00:00:53,100 --> 00:00:54,580 which happens to be my birthday. 20 00:00:54,580 --> 00:00:58,840 For customers that are in LA, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, San Diego, 21 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,600 your hometown, in Ventura, Calanies. 22 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:08,560 They're also deploying a ton of assets, over 550 mobile assets, 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,400 300 satellite-based assets as well. 24 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,560 They're offering residents free charging and Wi-Fi Verizon stores. 25 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,440 And they've also donated to the American Red Cross. 26 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,840 Not to be undone, AT&T obviously they operate FirstNet. 27 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,400 They are also waiving similar charges for customers through February 15th. 28 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,120 Also providing Wi-Fi and charging stations throughout LA and Pasadena. 29 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:37,520 They're also deploying generators to support power to AT&T cell sites. 30 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,440 AT&T has donated over a hundred thousand dollars to the Red Cross as well. 31 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,200 They're also making contributions to the LA Fire Department Foundation, 32 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,760 the California Community Foundation, and as I mentioned, the Red Cross. 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,760 And then T-Mobile, they're doing the same, providing unlimited 34 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:57,000 talk, text, and data to prepaid and precipitate customers, deploying 35 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,720 SAT-COLTS, SAT-CALS, very small aperture terminals. 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,040 And they've also engaged the Starlink service as well. 37 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:06,800 And I know that's something that you probably want to talk about. 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:07,200 Yeah. 39 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,680 I was going to say there's actually, it's like a twofold thing. 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,640 One, they were supposed to have started their beta. 41 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:18,600 I actually got an email, or text message from T-Mobile right as far as 42 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,440 they're starting that, that they, the beta is coming soon and blah, blah, blah. 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,000 And then they lit it up in Southern California. 44 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,760 I haven't had a chance to use it, nor if I needed to, but it 45 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,800 seems like that's now lit up. 46 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:39,240 And as a result of that, I think Starlink is also engaging with services and support. 47 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:43,120 I saw this on Twitter yesterday, they drove out a bunch of cyber 48 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,800 trucks equipped with Starlink on them. 49 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:46,360 Interesting. 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,520 They're using them as wifi hotspots for people who need connectivity. 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:56,480 The big three carriers are doing a lot, but also SpaceX as the tier one supplier, 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:03,520 or what tier one P is also offering some assistance to people in the affected areas. 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:09,280 And yeah, as when fires happen, they generally burn down a lot of infrastructure 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:14,160 and it will probably take a very long time to get the stuff back up and running. 55 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,320 Yeah, it will. 56 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,520 And it just, unfortunately, it just seems like it's disaster after disaster. 57 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:24,240 Last year was the hurricane recovery efforts and now it's the wildfire recovery efforts. 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,840 And again, just our thoughts and prayers go out to all those that are affected. 59 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,160 And we, we encourage our viewers and listeners who aren't affected by all of this. 60 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:34,080 Go ahead. 61 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,720 These, these carrier websites, because they're providing more information 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,560 almost on a daily basis. 63 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,040 Let's shift to your first topic. 64 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:46,000 You had the joy of spending a week in Las Vegas and CES and you want to cover some 65 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:46,560 highlights. 66 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:47,680 Yeah. 67 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:55,840 So I spent pretty much all of last week at CES and a lot of it was very PC centric. 68 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:04,120 Um, so we got some updates on their newest processors from AMD, Intel, Qualcomm, 69 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:04,760 and video. 70 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,840 What was interesting was started the kicked off the week. 71 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,800 And most of what they were talking about was very much graphics related. 72 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,320 So they announced the graphics cards. 73 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,600 They also talked about robotics and physical AI. 74 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,440 There wasn't much talk about 5g or connectivity. 75 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:26,320 However, there was a very common thread throughout the week that AI is likely to 76 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:33,680 be one, a driver of 5g, but also to drive 5g adoption because so many of these new 77 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:39,920 devices that are going to be AI capable will ultimately need an internet connection 78 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:45,120 to run AI, even if it's locally, because these models can only be so big to run 79 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:50,040 locally and then you'll eventually get a model too big for the local device. 80 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:50,840 You have to go to the cloud. 81 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:55,440 Hybrid AI is going to be a big driver, I believe, of 5g in the future. 82 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,600 And that 5g will enable a lot of interesting unique AI capabilities that 83 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,320 either exists on device or in the cloud and being able to transfer between the two 84 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:05,920 seamlessly will be really important. 85 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,960 And you'll need a low latency high network connection for that. 86 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,960 And I just think that when you look at what's going on with the AI realm today, 87 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:18,280 we're just seeing that there's more opportunity for 5g and AI together, 88 00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:19,440 like with AI and XR. 89 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,400 That's for another topic, but AI is working as an accelerant, but also 90 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:24,880 the way to accelerate. 91 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:30,000 And it's just really important to understand that AI is going to be 92 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,640 a big part of the 5g network. 93 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,840 It's just really interesting because I think we can really conceptualize 94 00:05:36,840 --> 00:05:41,040 what's going on in the 5g space where we're talking about AI constantly 95 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:46,920 running the network, but also like needing AI is going to be a big factor, 96 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:47,640 I think, this year. 97 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,440 I agree. 98 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,680 Just for our viewers and listeners, you mentioned the term hybrid AI. 99 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,240 And so that's the whole idea of running large language models and the 100 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:03,480 rise of AI as well as doing local or edge communications or with smaller 101 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,840 language models and rise of the AI PC, which is an area that you've covered 102 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:14,640 very exhaustively via Forbes and more insights and strategy that I believe 103 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,600 is going to factor heavily in the future. 104 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,360 And to your point, we've been talking about 5g for five, six years now. 105 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,400 We're on episode 211 after all. 106 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,160 And the improvements that 5g delivers from a throughput and a latency 107 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,520 perspective and device support perspective over LTE is pretty phenomenal. 108 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,480 For those of us that were waiting for the killer app, you and I have talked 109 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,200 about fixed wireless access as emerging as that killer 5g use case. 110 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:43,200 This whole- 111 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,200 Mindset AI. 112 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:44,560 Yeah. 113 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:45,960 It might be hybrid AI, right? 114 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:46,200 Yep. 115 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:46,960 Absolutely. 116 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:49,120 Hey, let's go to my second topic. 117 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,000 And this is news that broke last week. 118 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:56,960 So AT&T announced something that they're calling Guarantee and it aims to 119 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,960 elevate the subscriber experience. 120 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,760 And when I was pre-briefed on this and then I had an opportunity to speak 121 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,680 with Jen Robertsome that runs MassMarkets. 122 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,760 That's a huge part of AT&T's business. 123 00:07:08,280 --> 00:07:13,520 That's the consumer wireline and mobility part of AT&T over 90 billion in revenue. 124 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,000 We, she and I talked about this a little bit more. 125 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,480 I will be publishing a Forbes article with my interview with Jen. 126 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:25,200 And go into a little more detail, but the way to think about this is it's almost 127 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,640 like a service level agreement for consumers and small businesses. 128 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,400 They're doing a couple of things with this. 129 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,680 Number one, they're basically putting their money where their mouth is. 130 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,920 And if you experience, I believe it's a fiber outage for 20 or more minutes. 131 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,320 Or a mobility outage for 60 or more minutes and it has to meet some criteria. 132 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:50,200 A subscriber receives a credit in form of a credit to their bill. 133 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:56,600 And also to elevate the call center experience, the company is guaranteeing 134 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,720 that when you call a call center, if you have an issue that within five minutes, 135 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:08,040 the phone will be picked up or you have the option to schedule a return call 136 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,040 at your choosing. 137 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,480 And then there's also a guarantee around if that issue cannot be resolved, 138 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,840 you know, through a call center professional, there's some guarantees with 139 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:22,560 respect to how quickly they dispatch a field service technician the following day. 140 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,760 And so this is the first of its kind. 141 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:29,480 There are no other activity providers, whether it's fiber or mobility that are 142 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:30,800 providing guarantees. 143 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,160 And I think it's something that the competition is going to pay close attention to. 144 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:41,280 And we may see companies like T-Mobile, Verizon, and others stepping up and doing 145 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:41,800 the same. 146 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,160 So I don't know if you caught the news, I know you're busy at CES, but what do 147 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:45,960 you think about all this? 148 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:47,760 I did catch the news. 149 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,720 And the reason why is because I'm an AT&T fiber customer. 150 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:51,560 There you go. 151 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,680 I did see the guarantee part. 152 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,240 I did see that outage credit component of it. 153 00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:01,120 I did not know about the customer service component, which I really 154 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,920 interesting as well as the service guarantee. 155 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,720 So I do think that's really interesting. 156 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,240 It feels very pro consumer, to be honest with you. 157 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:09,960 Sure. 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,480 So I have a hard time seeing anything being bad about this. 159 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,600 I think this might be a way for AT&T to try and get back some customers they might 160 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,240 have lost in the past by creating these kinds of service level agreements. 161 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:22,560 Cause that's all I see these. 162 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,000 These are like consumer SLAs. 163 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,920 And I think that this is a good thing because I think it will drive other 164 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,080 carriers to do the same thing. 165 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,360 I think this will help them gain customers and retain customers. 166 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:36,760 I think it'll help with churn. 167 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,800 I think it'll help with net ads. 168 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,120 I don't see this being bad. 169 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,240 I will say for AT&T fiber, that stuff's been rock solid for me for years. 170 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,720 So for them, it's a rock solid product. 171 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,040 They don't really have to do much there. 172 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,080 They might have some more work on their other products, but I also think it's 173 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:58,080 exciting because for some customers are offering that like 5G cellular 174 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,520 backend backup in addition to fiber. 175 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,000 We've talked about that previous episodes, but I just think that I think that's a 176 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,160 good way for them to enable guaranteed service when there's like a little blip. 177 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:13,240 Gives them that ability to offer five nines reliability. 178 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,160 And yeah, I just think it's great. 179 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:18,640 I hope consumers become aware of it. 180 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,520 I hope they market it because it's a differentiator and I feel, you know, 181 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:27,480 carriers have not been great at customer service in the past. 182 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,880 And once we've reached a certain point of customer service, I felt like everybody 183 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,440 was like, yeah, this is low enough. 184 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:38,120 So I think it's good to raise that bar a little bit and improve the user 185 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,640 experience at no added costs. 186 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:42,360 No added cost. 187 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:48,560 And speaking with Jen Robertson, she views this as an opportunity to not only 188 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,280 minimize churn, but actually to your point, I think you made this point. 189 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,920 It's not only retention, but it's also potential, a customer ad engine as well. 190 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,400 And hey, there are carriers that give away free Netflix. 191 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,160 And koozies and that sort of thing. 192 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:09,840 I'm being tongue in cheek about T-Mobile, but this is, this is demonstrable value. 193 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,640 And from my perspective, to your point, it's been like the best effort. 194 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,200 And we've all gotten used to like drop calls, right. 195 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:21,160 And buffering when we're streaming something and we're on our cellular 196 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,320 plans and that sort of thing. 197 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:28,920 So for me, this really indicates that AT&T is very confident about the 198 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,280 infrastructure it's built, not only from a wire line, but a mobility perspective. 199 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,320 And obviously fiber feeds mobility for backhaul. 200 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:38,960 And this is the putting their money where their mouth is. 201 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,320 Now some subscribers may try to take advantage of this. 202 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,000 There's always those individuals not trying to take advantage of the situation. 203 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,200 But, but there are some guardrails that are sensitive around it. 204 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,360 So I think it's great. 205 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,040 I think it's a model for other carriers to follow and it'll be interesting to 206 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:55,760 see how it all comes together. 207 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,560 And he is promoting the heck out of it. 208 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,280 So unfortunately, yeah, unfortunately I'm waiting for a Super Bowl ad. 209 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:01,880 Yeah. 210 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,560 I, so I saw several ads while I was watching my Longhorn struggle 211 00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:08,160 against the Buckeyes, unfortunately. 212 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,160 And Tim Tebow is in one of the ads where he throws a set of keys to the 213 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,080 valet and it hits a one or something. 214 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:19,240 And so they're doing some fun stuff with guarantee here, but, um, again, I 215 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,560 think it's very valuable and I wouldn't be surprised if some of AT&T's 216 00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:24,480 competitors still shoot. 217 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,760 But with that, let's move to your second topic. 218 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,400 You want to talk about T-Mobile and an acquisition that they made. 219 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,920 And this is all focused on pumping up its ad business. 220 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:34,840 Yes. 221 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:36,080 I will be honest with you. 222 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,520 I do not know how to pronounce this company's name. 223 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,360 I think it's Vistar or Vistar. 224 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:42,000 Vistar. 225 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,360 But basically T-Mobile acquired them for $600 million. 226 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:46,080 Wow. 227 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:46,760 They are- 228 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,080 That's a lot of money, man. 229 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:48,320 Yeah. 230 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:49,200 600 million. 231 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,160 Vistar Media is a leading provider of technology solutions for 232 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:55,840 digital out of home advertisements. 233 00:12:56,160 --> 00:13:01,160 So basically it's digital ads everywhere that's not in front of your TV. 234 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,320 And basically this is going to bolster what T-Mobile is already 235 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,160 doing in its ad business. 236 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,320 They're doing a lot of data collection and advertising to their customers, 237 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,160 but stuff like T-Mobile Tuesdays. 238 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,320 Um, and I think this is just a way for them to increase their ad 239 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:24,160 business, grow their overall ad business, and find ways to generate more revenue 240 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,920 outside of just regular subscribers. 241 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,200 It's a constantly growing business. 242 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,760 We see companies like Amazon and Apple growing their advertising 243 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:33,920 businesses as well, even though- 244 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:34,480 PayPal. 245 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,360 PayPal is, is, is focused on the same as well. 246 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:37,680 Yeah. 247 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:41,680 Especially with their acquisition of Honey, which is a different hole to go 248 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:45,600 down, a rabbit hole to go down with the recent stuff, but it's a whole different 249 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:50,600 hole to go down with the recent stuff, but generally they seem this is a way to 250 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,720 personalize and create more relevant ads for their customers and for companies to 251 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,520 reach their customers because they are now a gigantic carrier. 252 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,160 I think this is a good addition for them. 253 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,160 And I think they will be able to generate a pretty good 254 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,840 revenue and profit off this. 255 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,040 Hey, you look at companies like Facebook that generate billions upon billions 256 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,200 of dollars in ad revenue. 257 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,400 There's something too at Google as well. 258 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,680 Those two would not survive without ads. 259 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,320 No, that's what floats the boat for those two for sure. 260 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:19,640 Yeah. 261 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,680 Hey, let's go to my third and final topic. 262 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,920 And this is something that broke a little over a week ago. 263 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,000 It may have been a little bit longer. 264 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,960 It may have been just right before or right after the holidays, but Legato 265 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,960 networks and AST Space Mobile are teaming up and I wasn't familiar with Legato 266 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,040 networks, but apparently they have a lot of low band spectrum and they filed for 267 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:40,600 bankruptcy. 268 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,120 I'm not sure if that's chapter seven or chapter 11, if it's a reorganization or 269 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:50,200 if it's a liquidity, but what they've agreed to do is to give AST Space Mobile 270 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,760 usage rights and some of its L-band spectrum. 271 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,040 And it's up to 40 megahertz. 272 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,800 And this is interesting. 273 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,480 Legato says Legato will continue operating throughout its restructuring. 274 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:06,000 So in this chapter, I think that's chapter seven, if I'm not mistaken, they 275 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,680 continue to try to provide mobile satellite service to its existing customers. 276 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:17,200 But this is interesting because it begs the question, does this provide AST 277 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,000 Space Mobile what it needs from a spectrum perspective, you know, construct 278 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,320 and sell service, you know, viable. 279 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,320 I think there was an AT&T spokesman or spokesperson that stated like, additional 280 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,800 spectrum is always a good thing. 281 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:34,800 There's no intention for AST to not continue to work with AT&T. 282 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:39,240 I actually reached out to AST Space Mobile because as our loop figures and listeners 283 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:44,800 know, I spent time with the company in Midland and I'm still trying to arrange 284 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,720 a meeting with executives there and publish my thoughts. 285 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,800 So I don't have a lot to share there, but this is an interesting development 286 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,840 opportunity for AST Space Mobile. 287 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:55,840 What do you think, my friend? 288 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:56,920 I think it's weird. 289 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,960 Yeah, it's interesting. 290 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:06,320 The reason why it's weird is because almost the day before this deal was 291 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,880 struck, Legato Chapter 11 again. 292 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:11,040 Today? 293 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,000 I hadn't to catch that. 294 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:13,680 Not today, like a week ago. 295 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:14,400 Okay. 296 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:20,280 So when they announced this partnership with AST Space Mobile, they also went 297 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,440 out for bankruptcy Chapter 11 for a second time. 298 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:24,400 Okay. 299 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:30,920 So they like happened in concert and I believe it's because partially 300 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,680 Legato is also suing the US government for using their spectrum. 301 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:35,680 I've read about that. 302 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:36,680 It's the DID, right? 303 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:37,440 Yeah. 304 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:41,120 So I think what they're doing is they're striking this deal with Space Mobile 305 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:46,800 because AST Space Mobile can actually use the spectrum and they can get paid 306 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:48,000 for the use of the spectrum. 307 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,360 And that's why I think this deal went through what it did. 308 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:56,480 And yeah, they apparently have something to the tune of $8.6 billion in debt. 309 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,720 And this would reduce it down to 1.2 billion. 310 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,400 So there's a lot going on. 311 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:06,040 I feel like this is a, could be a problematic thing for AST Space 312 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,160 Mobile to engage in just because of the legal legalities around the spectrum 313 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,800 and what's going on with the lawsuit. 314 00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:14,080 But I know about Legato. 315 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,800 I didn't realize they'd already gone on Chapter 11 for the second time. 316 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:18,680 I saw it. 317 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,120 January 5th and I was like, wait, that's literally like around the time when this 318 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,720 announcement happened with AST Space Mobile. 319 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:30,080 So it sounds messy, but ultimately I think AST Space Mobile needs as much 320 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,600 spectrum as they can get their hands on. 321 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,320 And I think this is just one of those things where the spectrum has already 322 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,800 been vetted for satellite communications of 45 megahertz is nothing too ball cap. 323 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,800 So I think it'll be good for them, but hopefully they are aware of what 324 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:45,880 they're getting themselves into. 325 00:17:46,360 --> 00:17:46,880 Yeah. 326 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:48,800 It'll be interesting to see. 327 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:49,400 Yeah, but you're right. 328 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,720 The timing was very unusual for sure. 329 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,240 Especially it's not very often that companies file for Chapter 11 within 330 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,400 two years of each other. 331 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,920 And then announce a deal towards a tail end in a second. 332 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,560 So yeah, that's this might even go to court. 333 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,320 Yeah, it'll be interesting. 334 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,160 Hey, let's go to your final topic. 335 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:12,080 And we've talked about Ericsson and their design on network programmability 336 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,240 and APIs and we've talked about the joint venture, but I think that's 337 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,080 the joint venture, but sounds like there's a name to this and there's a new leader. 338 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:22,160 Yes. 339 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:28,760 So interestingly enough, I ran into Sean Kinney at CES during the Qualcomm 340 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:33,400 cocktail hour, which actually turned out to be quite the shitty cocktail hour 341 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,880 because somebody released a bunch of sewage at the end of the party somewhere 342 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,960 nearby and we all had to run out because it smelled so badly. 343 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,040 So literally and figuratively, it was a shitty cocktail part. 344 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:44,560 Yeah. 345 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,000 But Sean Kinney is always fun to talk to you. 346 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:48,320 So he... 347 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:48,560 Yeah. 348 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,520 So before that ended, we started talking about this joint venture and 5G 349 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,600 APIs with Leonard Lee as well. 350 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:55,120 Okay. 351 00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,080 And it didn't have a name at that time yet. 352 00:18:57,120 --> 00:18:57,960 It does now. 353 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:00,080 And the company is called Aduna. 354 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:01,880 A-D-U-N-A. 355 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:09,120 And the new CEO is a telecom exec with 30 years, his name is Anthony Bartolo. 356 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:10,160 Do you know him? 357 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:15,120 Cause it looks like he came from Avaya and a bunch of other companies. 358 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:16,320 He was also at Tata. 359 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,160 So this guy has lots of experience in network business. 360 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,680 And basically this is going to be the company that helps to hopefully simplify 361 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:32,600 the 5G API space and create like a unified business across all carriers. 362 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:40,480 So one company, let's say NFL can come to this Aduna company and work with them 363 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:46,440 on a 5G API to use all the 5G networks in the US simultaneously for some kind of 364 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:47,320 application. 365 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,760 So hopefully this will help organize things. 366 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,680 He will assume responsibility of the CEO of Aduna starting January 20th. 367 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,280 So this hasn't even actually technically begun yet, but the 5G 368 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,280 APIs will be based on the Kamara API. 369 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,440 So there's definitely some industry standardization here. 370 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,200 There's a good 10 global carriers that are part of this venture. 371 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,920 So they probably represent at least half of the world's cellular users based on 372 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,640 what I know, if you exclude China, just because they make up like half the world's 373 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,160 cellular users, but even with China, I think you're pretty close to half of the 374 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,360 world's cellular users. 375 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:26,320 This is interesting. 376 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,200 So the Vonage team isn't going to drive the bus on this. 377 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,600 That makes sense because it's a joint venture. 378 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,280 They're bringing lots of operators together. 379 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,560 I've written about this on numerous occasions. 380 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,520 In fact, if our viewers and listeners are interested, I posted an analyst 381 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:46,600 insight or a research note, I forget which it was, to the more insights and 382 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,480 strategy website, where I talk about network programmability. 383 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,160 And I talk about both Ericsson and Nokia and how both companies are driving it. 384 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:00,360 Like you said, Kamara, that's open source, GSMA has done a lot of good work with 385 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:05,360 Open Gateway to really set the table, to really slow the doors off of us. 386 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:10,120 And it's been, I think it's been, it's been a hesitant thing for a lot of MNOs, 387 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,800 but finally with standardization, we're starting to see some momentum and some 388 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,800 coalescing coming around, a set of standards here to really get driving. 389 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,240 And so the opportunities is huge, especially for developers to really 390 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,240 innovate on top of the 5G tech stack. 391 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:32,440 It takes full advantage of 5G because that really hasn't happened from my perspective. 392 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,040 So I think it's an interesting name, Aduna, that it probably comes from something, 393 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,080 probably some agent Sanskrit for that. 394 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,120 But I think this is good for the industry. 395 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:47,240 And I think, and I did, and I do have a misresearch, I do point to 2025, this 396 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,920 June year where I think we're really going to see a lot of momentum behind network APIs. 397 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,440 So good stuff, my friend. 398 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,840 This was our first live podcast. 399 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,920 I was a little nervous dusting off the cobwebs after the holidays. 400 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,440 I hope you had a great holiday. 401 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,080 You went straight to CES and I'm on the road next week. 402 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,000 So with that said, why don't you take us home? 403 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:10,520 Absolutely. 404 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,080 We hope our bureaus and listeners found this week's topics interesting. 405 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:16,400 If anyone out there would like to provide insights on a specific 5G topic, 406 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,480 for a future podcast, please reach out to us on Zilver for Media. 407 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,360 Will is at Will Town Tech and I'm at Anshul Sag. 408 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,920 We hope you have a great week and please tune in next week and don't forget 409 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:47,440 to rate us and subscribe.