1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,540 Welcome to episode 207 of the GT on 5G. 2 00:00:03,540 --> 00:00:06,160 It's the latest insight scoop on everything 5G. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,160 We cover six topics in about 20 minutes, 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,680 and it's brought to you by More Insights and Tradogy. 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:11,520 I'm Will Townsend, 6 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,360 and joining me again this week is fellow analyst Anshul Sag. 7 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:17,280 Hey buddy, you're pretty happy, right? 8 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:19,440 The Padres crushed it last night. 9 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,320 Yeah, not complaining, but job's not done yet. 10 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,600 They come home tomorrow, play two games, 11 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,280 and if they win both, the series is over. 12 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,440 The Dodgers are a good team, 13 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:30,960 and they just gotta win out. 14 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:32,640 They do, and unfortunately, 15 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,440 my Astros got swept out of it by the Tigers. 16 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:35,940 Ah! 17 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,240 Oh, we gotta give some other players and teams a chance. 18 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,840 It's the first time in a very long time 19 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,240 that neither of the World Series teams 20 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,920 have made it through that round of the playoffs. 21 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:48,400 Crazy. 22 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,280 Let's jump into it. 23 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,440 I wanna hit my first topic, 24 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,960 and boy, this came as quite a surprise last week 25 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,560 when you and I saw the news break, 26 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,000 but it's official. 27 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,080 Chris Sambar, that has been the network president for AT&T, 28 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:03,600 is departing the company, 29 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,240 and that's after over 20 years with AT&T, 30 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,160 and this came as quite a surprise. 31 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,240 In fact, Chris was on my podcast with Abel, 32 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,320 as we talked about AT&T and AST Space Mobile's collaboration. 33 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:19,440 What do you say? 34 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,960 There haven't been a lot of details. 35 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:24,400 There's not really been anything officially stated by the company. 36 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,920 Folks like Sean Kinney at RCR Wireless and Mike Dana at Light Reading 37 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,720 were quick to break the news. 38 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,760 There was apparently a leaked memo that spoke to this, 39 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,440 but it is interesting. 40 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:40,160 Now, running a network as expansive as AT&T's 41 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:41,920 doesn't come without challenges. 42 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,440 There have been network outages, 43 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,440 but I'm gonna talk about one that affected Verizon recently as well, 44 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,640 and there've been some security issues as well, 45 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,800 but I don't think those were the reasons why Chris is leaving. 46 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,040 Again, it's a challenging position. 47 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:58,560 There are a lot of moving parts there, 48 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,400 but if you were to speculate, what do you think? 49 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,840 I've heard some inside baseball, 50 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,800 but I don't know if I'm going to serially give it credibility, 51 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,480 but I have a feeling it might have just been 52 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,280 a good old-fashioned management disagreement. 53 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,160 Yeah, Chris had a very long run T. 54 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,800 It's gonna be really interesting to see where he lands. 55 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,480 There is a lot of speculation. 56 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,400 Could he land at AST Space Mobile? 57 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,920 I will say that I've been around both Chris and Abel. 58 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,200 They have mutual respect for one another. 59 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,600 Both companies have accomplished quite a lot 60 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:33,440 just to get to this point with AST Space Mobile 61 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:38,000 launching its first five commercial low-Earth orbit satellites, 62 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,400 but I don't think we're gonna see Chris go off into the sunset. 63 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,400 I think he's gonna land into something pretty amazing. 64 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,040 He's a smart guy. I've gotten to know him personally. 65 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,520 I've enjoyed working with him while he spent AT&T, 66 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,960 and I think the next chapter will be written there. 67 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,920 But with that, let's go to your first topic, 68 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:02,320 and I caught this news as well that SpaceX and T-Mobile 69 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,080 have gotten emergency authorization to use direct-to-sale 70 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,320 in North Carolina to support all of the disaster recovery efforts. 71 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:15,600 Yes, so this is the temporary emergency authorization, 72 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:18,080 and basically it's the direct-to-sale technology 73 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,560 that they've been working on for quite some time. 74 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,440 This is specific to T-Mobile customers in North Carolina, 75 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,840 so this is not available to just anybody and not just anywhere. 76 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,920 This is very much about enabling basic SMS 77 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,640 in places where there's no cell coverage. 78 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:37,440 So it's really just about being able to communicate with people 79 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,880 and send messages back and forth. This is not some kind of 80 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:43,600 new novel capability that hasn't existed before. 81 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,440 It's just enabling something that was in development 82 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:51,040 and is still in development, but to help save lives. 83 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,040 Yeah, it's not even in production. 84 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:53,840 Yeah. 85 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,560 The link is still going through its test phase. 86 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,080 But the FCC was the one who made this authorization. 87 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,840 This is like a test in flight, is the way I would call it, 88 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,000 and it's not even in production. 89 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,680 This is the way I would call it, and I think that right now, 90 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,520 there's a lot of opposition to what T-Mobile and Starlink are doing. 91 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,520 Supposedly, there's a lot of interference, but... 92 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:16,560 Yeah, yeah. 93 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,120 We don't know the details of that yet, 94 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,440 and hopefully the FCC will take care of that. 95 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,200 But for right now, being able to save lives is most important, 96 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,960 and helping recover connectivity for people who don't have it 97 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:30,640 and might not have it for a while. 98 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,520 So I have a feeling this will be very temporary, 99 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,200 but there's also a chance that it can, down the road, 100 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,600 be approved for more use. 101 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,600 This was approved less than 12 hours, or less than 24 hours ago. 102 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,480 This is still very new, and it will be interesting to see 103 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:48,960 what that looks like down the road, 104 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,640 and whether this will eventually just be transitioned to a real license, 105 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:58,080 or if they'll have to get a full license for the whole country, etc., etc. 106 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,320 But it is a good development, and it's a net positive for this emergency. 107 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:03,600 I think so as well. 108 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,560 And the concerns around contention are not unwarranted. 109 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:13,840 But given that it's focused on North Carolina, 110 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:15,440 I would think that it would be manageable. 111 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,560 And this should be a great test of what Starlink is trying to support, 112 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,960 given it's still in that test phase. 113 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,120 But it'll be interesting to hear back from you a week from now 114 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,480 to see if this played a factor in helping first responders. 115 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,520 But I agree with you. I think, Matt, it's a positive thing for sure. 116 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,680 Hey, let me get to my second topic, and I want to talk about Nokia and NTT. 117 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:44,720 They have NTT data in particular, and they have formally partnered on private 5G. 118 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:51,120 This is new because the companies have worked together somewhat loosely in the past, 119 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,600 but this represents a formal solidification of a partnership. 120 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:01,040 NTT data has traditionally used Cisco as an example for the city of Las Vegas 121 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,720 and a lot of the smart city deployment activity and Solona. 122 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:12,080 So NTT is an investor in Lodes, a soup to nuts, private cellular solution in a box. 123 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,120 We've spoken about Solona on previous podcasts as well. 124 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:22,800 But I also had an opportunity to recently speak to the city of Brownsville and that CIO CTO. 125 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,160 Last week, ahead of this announcement, so I was pre-wired on this, 126 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:33,520 and he talked about how they are working with NTT on initially new access use cases 127 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,800 in parts of the city that have been unconnected. 128 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,280 And if you're not familiar with Brownsville, it is very close to the Texas Mexico border, 129 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:43,760 so it presents some very unique challenges. 130 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:51,120 They've also been deploying computer vision in public safety type E security, 131 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,520 public safety type E cases as well. 132 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:59,760 But those are just the beachheads and there are plans for the city of Brownsville to expand 133 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,640 what they're doing with NTT and Nokia. 134 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,520 And I think it's a great partnership. 135 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,240 We've talked about Nokia many times. 136 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:14,320 They have a very strong private LTE and 5G business and NTT data. 137 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,000 They are experts in integration. 138 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,200 So I think this is a great partnership. 139 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,840 I don't think it's necessarily going to replace what NTT continues to do with the likes of 140 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,600 Solona and Cisco. 141 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,200 I think having multiple partners is a good thing. 142 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,240 It provides flexibility to fit a myriad of different use cases. 143 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,200 So I don't know if you caught the news, but any thoughts? 144 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,000 I did not catch this news, but I would say that I really thought that there were 145 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,720 a lot of partnerships that Nokia has when it comes to private 5G. 146 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:50,000 And I feel like they're just picking the right companies to work with based on their expertise. 147 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,640 I think NTT data is definitely one of them. 148 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,640 I know you've worked really close with NTT data. 149 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,360 I don't really know them as well as you do, but I just think that there's a lot of companies 150 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,520 out there that are doing a lot of these private 5G consulting engagements. 151 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:08,480 And some companies are figuring out that private 5G is a better fit for them than just using 152 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:09,440 Wi-Fi. 153 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,640 So I think this is going to be a slow evolution. 154 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,920 I think it's a slower evolution than I think a lot of people would have liked. 155 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:20,800 And we've talked about that before, but I just think that because this is such a pivotal 156 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,400 part of running so many different companies, businesses, they can't just switch everything 157 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,360 over overnight. 158 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,800 And I think it's just going to be a slow roll, almost a freight train. 159 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,000 And I just think eventually it will be an unstoppable force. 160 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:37,840 And private 5G will probably take on a different name, but it will probably still be, if not 161 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,880 the primary connectivity technology, it will be the backup for many companies. 162 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:43,520 Yeah. 163 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:44,720 It's just so deterministic. 164 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:50,000 And when you look at smart city use cases where you have large expanses, the city of 165 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:56,080 Brownsville was telling me about what they're doing to use computer vision to ensure safety 166 00:08:56,560 --> 00:09:00,800 along a lot of trails and parks that border the Mexico border. 167 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:09,200 And again, it provides the propagation and the latency profile and throughput profile 168 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:15,200 that's required over larger expanses and distances outdoors, where densifying with access 169 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,120 points can be difficult. 170 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,880 It can be problematic. 171 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:19,760 Where do you put them? 172 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,120 It's easy to put devices on traffic lights and that sort of thing. 173 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,080 And that's another thing the city of Brownsville talked to me about smart traffic signaling 174 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,760 of private 5G as well, but I think there are a myriad of use cases. 175 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:37,040 And again, this demonstrates that there are multiple different parties and multiple different 176 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,800 routes to market to get to private. 177 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,800 You're also seeing companies like Extinet that are basically managed service providers 178 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,840 that are taking over venue deployments like at Circuit of the Americas, which is another 179 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:55,200 use case that I've talked about and written about on prior podcasts and on Forbes as well. 180 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,080 But I think it's all good. It's been long tail. 181 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,840 We've talked about that for quite some time, but I think this is a step. 182 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,840 This is definitely a step in the right direction. 183 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,120 But with that, let's go to your second topic. 184 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,120 And I did catch this news. 185 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:15,520 So KT and KT Sat are claiming that they're the world's first with NTN technology. 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,640 What does that mean? 187 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,480 There's a lot of focus and activity around non-terrestrial networks. 188 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,480 So they're the first ones to actually claim that they have successfully integrated their 189 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:35,840 commercial 5G network with a commercial satellite and actually connecting a geostationary satellite 190 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,160 with their 5G network using NTN. 191 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,160 So it's not like a simulated. 192 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,360 It's a real functioning connection. 193 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,760 They did work with Roden Schwartz. 194 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:51,200 I don't know what component of that was Roden Schwartz, because they don't actually say anything 195 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:51,840 about that. 196 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:57,120 But what it seems like is they were able to actually connect their ground network with an 197 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:03,040 actual satellite using NTN, as opposed to having it be a simulated satellite. 198 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,880 Other than that, it's just KT loves to be one of those world first carriers. 199 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:10,640 At least that's what I found. 200 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:17,440 And in general, I think that there's going to be a lot more carriers that actually want 201 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:18,640 to claim this first. 202 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:20,720 We'll see if anyone else says that first. 203 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:28,560 But in general, I think it's going to start to usher in the next generation of satellite 204 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:37,760 with NTN and delivering full capabilities on the satellite side as a component carrier. 205 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,640 To the 5G network. 206 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,880 Roden Schwartz, they're a test and measurement company. 207 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:50,560 They do a lot of the groundwork and helping operators design and deploy these next generation 208 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:51,200 networks. 209 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:56,240 So I wonder if there's some blueprinting goodness that's going to come out of this that can 210 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:02,880 allow what's been done here to be expanded in other parts of the world. 211 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:03,680 Was there any? 212 00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:04,160 Yeah. 213 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,400 I didn't read too deeply into the release, but was there any reference to that? 214 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:09,520 Yeah. 215 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:15,200 So what they said is it was the Monggunghwa Satellite 6, which is known as Korea Sat-6, 216 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:22,400 located at an orbital altitude of 35,800 kilometers using a 5G NTN standard. 217 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,680 And they said it was the first time that 5G NTN was used for geostationary Earth orbit. 218 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:30,720 So maybe there's already been an LEO. 219 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,280 And this is the first time that 5G NTN has been used. 220 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:34,720 And this is for GEO. 221 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,920 And they also said that Roden Schwartz was a part of helping this happen, as was VIAVI 222 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,360 Solutions Korea. 223 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:49,680 So it's unclear what their role was, but it's clear that this is a Release 17. 224 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:51,600 It's a commercial satellite. 225 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:52,720 It's a commercial network. 226 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,680 And I think that's really what they're trying to talk about. 227 00:12:55,680 --> 00:13:00,800 But truthfully, this isn't going to be like a regular commercial deployment for some time, 228 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:01,280 I believe. 229 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:06,080 And it seems like they want to talk about this almost more in a 6G capacity than in 230 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,920 a 5G capacity, probably because 6G is just a sexier word now. 231 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:11,760 But that's how I look at it. 232 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,400 It doesn't really feel like it has too much meat on it. 233 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:15,200 Yeah. 234 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:22,240 And it feels like to me, like the direction that 6G going is around AI enablement, right? 235 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,440 When you consider some of the recent announcements from NVIDIA and some of the partnerships 236 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:33,360 that they're putting together to do intelligent steering of RAM with artificial intelligence. 237 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,880 But yeah, it's all conjecture at this point and it's conjecture on the spectrum band and 238 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,080 that sort of thing as well. 239 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,480 But yeah, it's interesting stuff. 240 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,600 But hey, man, let me hit my third and final topic and I'm going to talk about Verizon. 241 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,200 There have been some kind of restructuring things going on there. 242 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,200 They have a new CTO that was recently announced. 243 00:13:55,200 --> 00:14:00,480 This is a veteran, a 30 year veteran that's coming from Vodafone over to Verizon. 244 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,800 We've spoken to him before. 245 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:03,840 Yeah, we have. 246 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:09,200 And this is also on the heels of a reduction in force recently at Verizon where they've 247 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,040 laid off 5,000 employees. 248 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,160 Seems at a very deep level, the company is restructuring its overall operations. 249 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:21,840 Any insight into why they're bringing on a new CTO and what the RIP was all about? 250 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:28,000 My understanding is the layoff was about the company overall, which is, I think it was 251 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,400 the layoff that probably should have happened a while ago. 252 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:37,920 And then on the CTO side, honestly, I think it's really just, while they are ahead on 253 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,880 edge, I think they're behind on other things, right? 254 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,000 Like they should have been more ahead on standalone. 255 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,760 And I think their edge is useless without standalone. 256 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,360 And I think that's the problem is they invested in Edge early, but they're not 257 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:52,240 in Edge early. 258 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:57,520 I think we all agree on that, but they just can't utilize the edge without standalone 259 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:58,320 applications. 260 00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:59,200 That's what I think. 261 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,320 That's a part of it. 262 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,000 Also, I just think their strategy was a little bit mistaken. 263 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,720 I don't know if that's the CTO's job, to be honest with you. 264 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,840 They pushed millimeter wave way too hard. 265 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:13,760 And I know that was what everybody had to work with initially, but I think it's... 266 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,600 That's the spectrum they had initially. 267 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,680 Sure, but everybody had that spectrum initially. 268 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:20,800 They didn't have to lean into millimeter wave. 269 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,560 They chose to lean into millimeter wave. 270 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:27,360 And when it was clear that strategy was not the right one, they doubled down. 271 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,040 And that was a mistake, right? 272 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,120 AT&T and T-Mobile both pivoted. 273 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:31,840 They didn't. 274 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:32,720 No, good point. 275 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,240 Yeah, very valid point. 276 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:39,920 And a lot of that makes you wonder, was marketing strategy default for a lot of that? 277 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,160 Hey, they've got a new CTO, not a marketing person, but someone who's going to be very 278 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:50,560 technical, probably understand what assets are available and what needs to be prioritized 279 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:51,760 from a deployment standpoint. 280 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,360 But I totally agree with you, not focusing on standalone. 281 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:56,800 Part of that was chicken and egg. 282 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,360 You've got to get the mid-band, the C-band stuff rolled out, then get things transitioned 283 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:02,720 to SA and start slicing. 284 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:08,880 But we've talked about AT&T-Mobile in particular, and they are just large and in charge promoting 285 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:13,440 what they're doing with slicing, whether it's T-Priority, which was the most recent 286 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,160 slice for first responders. 287 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:18,240 Or the security one. 288 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,720 The security slice for the SASE or VIDEA. 289 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,000 Yeah, yeah, interesting stuff. 290 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,480 Hey, let's hit your third and final. 291 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:30,240 And boy, it seems like almost every other podcast we talk about Apple and new 5G modems, 292 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,800 but there's one expected for the iPhone SE. 293 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,480 And is this the current version or is this more forward looking? 294 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:37,840 This is for next year. 295 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:43,280 Mark Gurman at Bloomberg came out with an article that kind of updated the status of 296 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,600 all of Apple's products and how they're no longer doing an annual cadence. 297 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,360 They're just going to release things as they're ready. 298 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:50,800 I read that, yeah. 299 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:57,120 And so part of that is going to be we're getting new MacBooks later this month, most likely. 300 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,760 But in the next year, we'll be getting new iPhones and they won't be all launched at 301 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:02,560 once. 302 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:08,720 And one of those will be the iPhone SE, which will very likely carry the A16 that's in the 303 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:13,360 current iPhone 16 or A18, sorry, the A18 and iPhone 16. 304 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:21,680 And I think it will have the cameras from the iPhone 15, if I'm not mistaken, and it 305 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:23,680 will have Apple's first 5G modem. 306 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:29,360 And if you think about where they would do this, there was a lot of talk between it being 307 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:32,880 the iPhone SE or the slim, which is going to be a new thinner iPhone. 308 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,840 But it makes sense to launch it in the SE, I think for a lot of reasons, because it's 309 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,680 a lower volume part than everything else Apple does, even though it's a whole lower price. 310 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,440 Initially, it will be lower volume. 311 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,920 Over its lifespan, it will probably be higher volume than any other iPhone, but it's lower 312 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,920 stakes because it's a cheaper iPhone. 313 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,800 And if there are some performance issues, it's less of an issue. 314 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,160 Or if there's some battery life problems, they can accommodate for them. 315 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,160 I just think, and if there's supply issues also, it's not going to hurt their bottom 316 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:02,640 lines. 317 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,480 I think this is the right way for them to do it. 318 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,920 It's low expectations, low risk for them. 319 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,840 And that's why I think they have to do it. 320 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,200 Because if they were to launch this with the flagship iPhone and something went wrong, 321 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:18,400 it would be catastrophic for the company because iPhone pretty much drives profitability for 322 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,440 the whole company. 323 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,960 And that's why SE has to be where they launch it. 324 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,840 I will be very interested to see how that performs. 325 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,160 Most likely it will not have millimeter wave because iPhone SE doesn't have it. 326 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:37,040 It was the first phone, I believe, on Verizon to not have millimeter wave 5G. 327 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:41,600 And I expect this next generation will also not have it for the sake of keeping that modem 328 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,880 simple, low power, and reducing the RF front end build materials. 329 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,840 This is something I think we'll see probably in the springtime, maybe early summer, depending 330 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:53,840 on when Apple decides it's ready. 331 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,400 But very much first half of next year. 332 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:01,520 And it will be interesting to see how that performs and what people say about it. 333 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:09,760 So we've been tracking this whole soap opera with Apple and its modem development for years. 334 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:16,080 If this puppy actually launches in the spring or summer of next year, is that going to be 335 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:17,120 five years? 336 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:17,920 That's what I thought. 337 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,400 That's an eternity in the tech world, right? 338 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,680 It is. 339 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:29,040 But if you go back to my tweets when Apple acquired this division from Intel, I'm not 340 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,440 this division from Intel. 341 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:33,200 I said four to five years. 342 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:33,840 You did. 343 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:35,440 So this is your victory lap, man. 344 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:41,920 It's just, if it was a brand new from the ground up design, it might have actually taken 345 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:43,520 them longer, like a decade. 346 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:43,920 Sure. 347 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:48,880 But having something to start from, which I've heard was not much. 348 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,640 They had somewhere and they've probably accelerated things and there've been delays. 349 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,640 I think they were hoping for three to four years, but ended up being more like five. 350 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:56,960 Yeah. 351 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,080 Good things come to those that wait is the way to look at it. 352 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,920 My friend, it's been another great podcast. 353 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:02,880 Why don't you take us home? 354 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:04,480 Absolutely. 355 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,520 We hope our viewers and listeners found this week's topics interesting. 356 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,640 If anyone out there would like to provide insights for a specific 5G topic for your 357 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,920 future podcast, please reach out to us on social media. 358 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,960 Will is at WellTown Tech and I'm at Onshell Sog. 359 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,840 We hope you have a great weekend and please tune in again next week. 360 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:30,560 And don't forget to rate us and subscribe.