Welcome to episode 201 of the GT on 5G. It's the latest insight scoop on everything 5G. Cover six topics in about 20 minutes, and it's brought to you by More Insights and Strategy. I'm Will Townsend. Joining me again this week is fellow analyst Anshul Sag. Let's get started with my first topic, and I want to talk about T Mobile and what they're doing with channel partners to lower the entry for 5G connected PCs and fixed wireless access solution. I know you're going to want to weigh in on this as well. In fact, in the press release, Patrick Morehead, our fearless leader, was quoted supporting this initiative, but at a very high level, what T Mobile is doing, they're working with 2 of the largest IT distributors. very much. In the United States, Ingram Micro and TechData Cenex, and what they're doing is they're rolling out a partner plus program. And what this is, it's a subsidy program that actually lowers the cost of PCs that have integrated 5G, mobile broadband modems in them. And then they're also partnering with CradlePoint on doing the same with some of the fixed wireless access CPE products that, cradle point offers and it's actually pretty significant. On the device side up to 400 off and that basically neutralizes the outer for the mobile broadband modem and then with the subsidy credit on the 5G cradle point solutions, it's up to 700 off. At a very high level within the press release at T Mobile issue. They're saying that businesses could see up to 1600 dollar savings per router adapter. And again, over 400 per connected PC. Now, I think this is great. Cost is certainly been an obstacle, but also historically, there's been challenges around provisioning these devices. More so on the PC side and then not necessarily the FWA solutions that are deployed within, businesses and enterprises, but I know you've got, some comments here to weigh in. Let's start first on your take with the devices. Is this going to move the needle? Do you think I've thought about it and I just feel it should, but the problem is just throwing money at the problem is not the solution. I agree. There needs to be amount and a certain level of education. And honestly, like there needs to be a marketing program. For example, let's talk about like our government, when we have programs where we give people money, we literally have to advertise that we're giving away money so that people use that money, right? So just, there needs to be an awareness for this program. Obviously you and I are doing our part here to make that possible. I just think that, this is a very, underneath You know, underneath the sheets kind of program. So I feel like there needs to be some kind of top level marketing campaign that funnels into this because. I just feel like why, what, okay. You're going to, first of all, no, one's going to even know that they're giving 400. But even if you tell someone I'm going to give you 400 towards a new PC, let's say a 5g connected copilot plus PC, those are going to start like 12, 1300 bucks. So you're going to be getting under a grand that's huge. But then people can ask what's my plan going to cost me? And why, like people are still going to ask questions. So I think that we need to have, there needs to be a really solid campaign to explain to people we're going to give you a really good discount. You're going to pay for service, but you're going to love it. And the truth is I have yet to meet someone who uses a 5g connected PC for a good amount of time and doesn't absolutely love it. It's a great experience. The problem has always been the cost, right? So throwing money at people, I think it does help in some ways, but also you need to like, really educate them. I agree. Obviously there's pull through the channel. These distributors are going to be working with. And so there's a procurement sales motion that goes on there, but you're right. There needs to be, I agree there needs to be a program that. Basically highlights the fact that this is available, right? And it's just not the initial cost of the device. It's, you're paying for the ongoing service as well, whether, and obviously it's, T Mobile is going to focus on this and I'm sure there'll be within their storefronts, their retail storefronts, there'll be signage and that sort of thing and to promote this, but this is really, I think, it's a business play because they're working with IT distribution partners to do this. Yeah. I do think there'll be some end users that will find it interesting as well, but yeah, it definitely requires a push pull, but I think it's a step in the right direction. And again, I think, what needs to also be really scrutinized is just how easy is it to provision the stuff in the field like self provisioning. Right? And and that's always been problematic when, let's say, a connected PC is sent out and then, It's obnoxiously easy now. I feel like the reason why this program exists. is because it has become so much easier to do. Like when I signed up for the T Mobile program where they're giving 90 days free service on the Surface Surface Pro 9 5G it was literally just like type in your T Mobile account. Oh, cool. I didn't have to go to anybody. I didn't have to do through any go through any ridiculous workflows It was log into your t mobile account Here's 90 free days. And then if you wanted to pay more for more service you could but it was like really simple it was like you go to your wi fi like setup on the pc And one of your options is e sim and then you go to e sim and then you like log into t mobile. So it's gotten Obnoxiously easier like it was so bad before You It was totally justified to people not wanting to do it. Now there's no excuses. You heard it. You heard it here, our viewers and listeners. That's great news, my friend. Hey, let's go to your first topic. And I was at Black Hat this week. I was there, Monday was the travel day. And then I was there Tuesday, Wednesday, and I was flying out. And this news started breaking. But you want to talk about a 5G baseband vulnerability that was surfaced at the big security event this week in Vegas. Yeah I followed this because I wasn't at Black Hat and I was really surprised because I didn't actually know that this was something that happened, but basically like many 5G vulnerabilities, it actually kicks you down to a older protocol. We're just less secure. So this is really about the fact that users devices still need to support the older bands. Like one of the good reasons why we left 2g and 3g was security. And I think with time 4g will also be dropped off eventually. For, and because it's also a security vulnerability, but basically this was a a tool that they created called 5g base checker, which went in and checked out, the base bands of many different phones from Samsung, MediaTek, Qualcomm made by manufacturers like Google, Oppo, OnePlus, Motorola, and Samsung. And they basically were able to trick these devices into connecting to a fake cell tower and send credible phishing messages. And or use of a malicious website with this capability and that this fake base station would only be possible if they were able, to get kicked down to a lower G and they basically sent ahead of announcing this like proper researchers. They helped companies patch these vulnerabilities in advance and then announced the vulnerabilities, which there were 12 of it looks like Samsung and Google already said that they have already patched these flaws but MediaTek and Qualcomm did not respond for comments. I have a strong feeling that probably already have because MediaTek and Qualcomm are two big base bands providers. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see as this matures how well addressed it actually has been. But this 5g base checkers already available on get up if you want to see if there are any 5g vulnerabilities in your base band. But overall I thought, black hat is a security conference. So it's not a huge surprise that something like 5g modems would be. Something that they would be looking into and, following the right procedures around notifying and allowing for patching before announcing. They probably discovered this a year ago, and it probably took them a year to get somebody on board to patch it. Yeah. What's interesting about Black Hat. So I, like I mentioned, I attended this year. It's been several years since I've been it's an interesting show because it is focused on practitioner security practitioners. So you do have the really large infrastructure providers there. Even crowd strike was there. Interestingly enough and Palo Alto and, info blocks and, you name it. But it's very training focus. There's a lot of ethical hacking that's going on. I didn't catch this before I left, but this could have been a, an output of ethical hacking. And it really, it highlights the, how black cat is different than, you RSA conference and other cybersecurity conferences, and that it's very practitioner focus. And even as I sat, for lunch, the couple of days I was there, the conversations I was able to have with with people that are in the industry that are, not necessarily CSO level, but these are sec ops, professionals, and they're there to learn. They're there to learn not only in the classroom, but from others and. It's just a very interesting conference and I did enjoy my time there. And I think, this is, your topic is a great example of some of the things that you travel with a burner. I did not maybe I should start traveling with a burner phone. But Hey, man, let's go to my second topic. And I want to talk about Nokia and they're partnering with Swiss com for drone emergency response and industrial use cases. This is something that you and I have talked about on a prior podcast. We've talked about Nokia focusing discreetly on drone. And what's interesting, this is for Swiss comms broadcasting business. So as I read through the article on mobile world live, it was talking about how Nokia has. Basically prepared 300 units. They call them a drone in a box. And it's again, it's to support public safety. And we know how that can be done with law enforcement and with fire response and that sort of thing, but also for for infrastructure inspections as well. Utility lines and that sort of thing. And but even beyond that, you're seeing drones, controlled by 5G disrupting industries like that. And I'll just share a funny story. So I was in Vegas for Black Hat. I went, the weekend before got to see the debt experience, which, by the way, an incredible sharing company. Yeah, dead in company with john Mayer smashed his finger in a. In a car door 2 days before didn't miss a beat, but long story short after the concert the next day, I joined my brother and his wife and my wife at the cosmopolitan. We were watching these window washers. Go up and down the building and everyone was talking about how, oh, my God, it's got to be dangerous. They must make 6 figures. Hey, guess what? Drone technology. We've talked about this in partnership with T Mobile. There's a company that's basically disrupting that industry with drones and big water jets and big tanks. So this is, I think we're going to see more and more maturity with respect to drone applications and 5G. And I really believe this is an area where Nokia can really focus its effort and be differentiated. So don't know if you caught the article, but would love to get your insight. I did. Cause I was going to make it a topic of mine. And then I saw that you had, Oh, I stole it from you. It's okay. You did your topics before I did. So I can't really blame you. What I was gonna say is, yeah, I thought it was really interesting. I thought, one Swiss comm is definitely one of the more advanced European carriers. So it makes sense that they would do this. And it also makes sense that Nokia would be someone who would do this because this feels like a very private 5g. application. So it feels like a good fit for both carriers. Do you know what drones they're using? Because that's the one thing I didn't see when I was looking it up. Yeah, I know no kid doesn't make drones. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of detail there. So thin on the details, something that we could definitely both dig into. But I would assume that they're going to be agricultural graded, technology, obviously for the distance and, battery life and that sort of thing. But, yeah, okay. Yeah. I just wanted to see. I wasn't sure. Sorry. I wanted to know if you had an idea, cause I couldn't find anything. These aren't your garden variety DJI drones that you like to fly around and take pictures in Hawaii with and California for sure. But Hey man, let's go to your second topic. And this is great news. You want to talk about Vodafone UK and they're going to start offering 5g standalone to enterprises. Yeah. So this is actually based on research that they did. And I kept seeing this statistic, so I'm going to repeat it. They said that 39 percent of UK companies are ready to invest in 5g standalone today with 14 percent making the move within 12 months, demonstrating an immediate appetite for next generation digital services. So this is basically them saying, we think that 40 percent of UK customers or UK companies want this service. So we're lighting it up. They already have standalone, I think in 300 cities across the UK. They call this standalone service 5G Ultra. They were the first ones to brand standalone service. I still think AT& T and Verizon are going to do that too, by the way, maybe even T Mobile. But we'll see what happens. But they said that they are committed to, expanding capabilities and capacity. They talk about it being lower latency, more reliable. And they really said that the big reason why a lot of businesses were interested in it is the 93 percent reliability connection for critical applications. Basically this is for all kinds of businesses from enterprise, all the way down to small, medium business. Yeah, it just, they are the first ones to launch UK in 2023. And they just feel like there's a lot of appetite for this upgrade. They're saying that it's going to be 25 percent better battery life standing on, going on standalone faster 5G's. Having more reliable connections in busy places. So they see this as a net positive. It's, I think it's good for them to talk about, how they're going to grow this. They're already talking about some of the existing networks and slicing companies that have already taken advantage of this network. They talked about ITN, UK power networks EBC, and even a gaming application for network slicing as well. Basically, they have a lot of points and it seems like they are ready to sign customers up. But it also sounds like that. They're highlighting these cases that shine on standalone, right? Okay, cool because I think if they didn't do that, then it's going to be a very difficult thing to solve just because. We've had, NSA and essay and this tweener has really lowered people's expectations on the true promise of 5G. Yeah, they talked about how they had a a pilot with the UK power networks showing how network slicing can improve efficiency of critical national infrastructure. And then they showed multiple events where they were able to live broadcast over 5g or create a slice for payment terminals. So they have really good proof points. I actually think the gaming one might be the weakest because that's very consumery. It is still, business to consumer, but I feel like most of the gaming companies are not providing connectivity as a service. Maybe that's something that will happen down the road. It's something I believed would be possible with 5g. It still hasn't really happened, but I think there's a chance that it could. Yeah, I think another opportunity we're talking about slicing is security slices for determinant security provisions. T Mobile has done that with their SASE solution in the United States. And I expect that's going to be an important consideration for enterprises because. Hey, they're having to safeguard data, if they're in regulated industries such as health care, financial services, that's going to be really important. Security is important all the time. We were just talking about that baseband vulnerability, but. I think that's something that can be easily monetized by Vodafone, because T Mobile has been able to do it here in the US. But hey, with that, I'm going to hit my 3rd and final topic. And, I talked quite a bit about low Earth orbit satellite. We've talked about Starlink. We talked about AST Space Mobile. I caught the news. It was an informal article around China and how they're finally getting into the Leo space race. And it's interesting because China seems to be the country that's always beating its chest. We're 1st. We've got more 5G towers lit up. We've got this done and this done. But but they seem to be, a little bit late to the Leo satellite party. So the details. Are around an orbit that was achieved on Monday, which Mark China's entry into the mass constellation space rays. I can't I'm not even going to begin to pronounce the satellite launch center in Western China, but the initial swag was 18 satellites. For the quite fun constellation as reported by local media. You've got a lot of companies involved in this as you might expect. Shanghai space, com satellite technology is building the satellites there. Their goal is to launch 108 satellites. They're saying this year, which, that's a pretty short runway to do it. Yeah, but but their goal is to basically provide global network coverage for subscribers in China by 2027. And the total number of satellites that they're targeting would be about 15, 000 by, by 2030. So very interesting. Not surprised to see this. Boy, we're going to be putting a lot of things in space here when you just look at just what we're doing alone in the United States. And then, looking at what Europe's doing and now China. I don't know if you caught this news, but what are your thoughts? Can China be competitive? I genuinely thought China would be further along than they are to be honest with you. I also think that like China's space program has also had some setbacks. Having the ability to launch rockets efficiently is a key component of being able to build good LEO networks. They've definitely had some interesting launches as of late. And yeah, I just think that like China, they just operate on different timescale. But sometimes they run into issues and they get delayed. I think they're delayed to be honest with you. I really was expecting them to be further along than they are. And yeah, I think there that's a pretty tight window for them to get this done by the end of the year. I have a feeling that they'll probably stop talking about this. and let whatever schedule happens happen. But ultimately, it's a state funded enterprise and they'll be able to, do whatever they want however they want, even if it's, using, Questionable rocket technology. Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting because when you look at just the mobile infrastructure that's been deployed, and if you believe the numbers on brand, infrastructure and that sort of thing, it makes you wonder. How badly do they need satellite coverage if they basically just, they mow along and, about the rest of China. Yeah. It's a huge country, right? It's very similar to the U. S. in the sense that you have really dense population centers and then you just open expanses. Yeah, and you've got, the special economic zones, right? That were, set up, 2, 3 decades ago, and there's a new, there's certainly. Yeah, I was going to say they're certainly fibered out and built out from a mobility standpoint, but you're absolutely right. This will likely, give them coverage in those extremely rural areas that are not within those and it will help them, maybe potentially build out. Some of their new new regions as well, because carbon is likely going to be a very big center for China moving forward. I think they're building, I think they're building it. They already have some stuff in place. Very far eastern China that they're trying to modernize and make like the new engine. Yeah. And they're also, they're building stuff in the China sea as well, like floating cities. Yeah, it's like connectivity for that. Yeah, it would be a great application for Leah for sure. Hey we're whipping through this. Let's hit your 3rd and final because I know you're going to go fishing this afternoon and I'm expecting you to catch some good fish. I was complaining that nobody's emailing or tweeting today because we're going fishing. That's right, buddy, but you want to talk with the Pentagon. We've talked about future G and the past and you want to talk something about they're disclosing some details on. Yeah, I'm just gonna let you I'm just gonna let you take it. So what's interesting is I didn't know that future G was had been moved. Into the chief information office. Last year, so that was an interesting update, but that makes sense because that's where they should be. But basically they are looking at all different types of five G applications. For different ways to, advance war fighting. And one of those is they are deploying Anduril made. So Anduril is a defense contractor. They built these towers that are using quote, tactical radios. Meaning that they don't have inherent 5G capability, but they definitely can. And that there is the ability to do high resolution, high frame rate video through these. Video towers to protect bases in Africa. So Africom will be the one who will be utilizing these towers. But there will be other applications we've talked about in previous podcasts, NATO exercises. And they're talking about, using these and using 5G in Latvia with local carriers from 5G military applications. 5G is very much alive and in the, with the U. S. Department of Defense and specifically for, improving security in this situation. But it was really interesting because I actually follow Anduril pretty closely. They do a lot of autonomous. Drones and they do they, they wanted a contract with the Australian government for an underwater drone. But they're doing a lot of stuff and I did not know that they were building these towers. For security purposes. I think the applications for 5g and defense continue to grow and it seems like next, the next thing will be pushed by future G and they will, transition us into 6g as well. But it's very clear that the U S department of defense is, and the Pentagon is very serious about enhancing capabilities with. The next generation of wireless connectivity for sure. And, I've spent some time with these Allen and their work with the U. S. Navy and what they're dealing to equip naval ships and probably submarines and whatnot with 5G communication technology as well and really replace. Comms that are very antiquated. I think it's interesting that you mentioned Latvia because I'll be headed to Riga the capital in October yeah, for 5g territory. I'll be moderating panels there again. It's my 5th or 6th time there. I'm a founding father. Patrick Moorhead, our fearless leader, continues to ask me when am I getting the key to Riga? And I'm hoping to bring that home, Patrick at the end of October this year. But hey, my friend, it's been another great podcast. Why don't you take us home? Absolutely. We hope our viewers and listeners found this week's topics interesting. If anyone out there would like to provide insights on a specific IoT topic for a future podcast, please reach out to us on social media. Will's at Willtown Tech and I'm at Onshore SOG. We hope you have a great weekend and please tune in again next.