Welcome to episode 151 at the GT on 5g. It's the latest insight scoop on everything 5g. We cover six topics in about 20 minutes, and it's brought to you by more insights and strategy. I'm Will Townsend, and joining me again this week is Fellow Analyst Anil Sag. But before I get started, I just wanna wish our viewers and listeners a very happy 4th of July Independence Day.

And if you don't live in the States we wish you all the best as we're coming off a big holiday week. We didn't want to be remiss and skip an episode, so we're doing a special holiday episode this week. But let's go to my first topic and I wanna talk about N T and I caught this on RCR Wireless News.

They're deploying an iot and an AI infused network to create a live digital twin of the tour de front. There's no mention of 5g, but it got me thinking could bringing 5G into it, supercharge things. And from my perspective, it could. I'm a big cyclist I did triathlon back in the day when I was fit.

And I like to watch the Tour de France. I've actually not ever personally witnessed it. I was able to see the tour the Glia, which is an Italian race, when I was in Rome earlier this this year, but, I think it's really cool and it's an innovative approach. And so what n T is doing is again, leveraging ai.

And as I've read through the article, it's gonna be able to provide a live visual rendering of the event, including real time readouts of sundry race stats consumption for consumption by race teams, broadcasters, and spectators, and. NTT is doing the same for the women's race. And if you don't recall or if you don't watch it, a couple of years ago, a fan actually stood in front of a cyclist that caused a massive accident.

There were 20 or 30 cyclists that were involved in it. And I'm just wondering, could AI prevent that? But I don't know if you caught the news, man, but do you have any thoughts or insights? 

I didn't, but you did trigger a thought in my head where you could have, security staff. Getting like a beep in their ears, 10 seconds ahead of the big group head heading their way and they could really take that security right in advance.

I think there's a lot of things you can do when you have good data. The one thing I was curious about, do you know whose iot solution network frequency was powering this? Cause it sounds like if it's in France, maybe it would be a Luan thing, 

I didn't find that detail and the, that article, but that's a very good point.

If I were to guess. There's probably some lower land tech involved and that's definitely gonna be, on the lower end of the spectrum bands just for propagation and power and all of that. But but for 

the space that they're covering, maybe it makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. I wish I knew the answer to that, but it probably, warrants some further investigation, but I just thought it was, cause when there's discussion around digital twin and iot. It's typically around manufacturing and improving manufacturing yields and that sort of thing.

So I just I thought it was an interesting sort of play on digital twin, applying that to the biggest, professional cycling race of on the planet. But hey man, let's go to your first topic. And I didn't catch this. I was enjoying my 4th of July a little bit too much, but you wanna talk about Dish and the possibility of their merging with EchoStar.

So I think this just published. Okay. So it's fairly hot off the presses, which is probably why you missed it. So don't feel guilty. Okay. But this is a story from Monica over at Fierce Wireless. And she's writing that dish is exploring a merger with EchoStar which for some people who might not know both companies are actually owned by Charlie Ergen.

Yeah, and they actually were originally part of the same company and they spun EcoStar off from Dish as EcoStar is more of like a commercial enterprise solution while Dish is more of a consumer product. And it sounds like he might be looking to merge the two companies together. Leveraging a lot of the strengths that EcoStar has to Yeah.

Their dish. While it's trying to roll out its 5G network. There, she said that there were no comments from either companies but that SEMAFO reported this and they are a pretty well known publication for getting a lot of exclusives. So it's not really clear whether or not this will happen.

Nobody's really officially commented on it, but it's definitely a possibility considering that he owns both companies. And that, ecostars in a better financial position and does have a lot of spectrum, 

Just, because this is new news for me, but if I were to speculate obviously Dish has had, its financial difficulties, it's had challenges with deploying its next generation, totally cloud native, highly disaggregated.

Topology and given that and given some of the financial concerns, this may be his attempt to I don't know leverage some synergy with EchoStar. And, maybe reduce some overhead. I don't know. Was there any detail, I didn't catch the article, but was there any detail around reduction in variable expenses?

Like workforce reduction or anything like that? Or? 

No. This was reported in about a day ago. Yeah. But it's starting to pick up steam today. Yeah. But it looks like, Semaphore was the one who wrote the story. And it's more talking about the merging of the two pieces of his telecom empire.

Yeah. More than real details. On how 

and why and the why. Yeah. Maybe that'll come out. It is a holiday week and there are a lot of folks off yeah. But we'll keep tabs on this. And if things develop like the whole, altimeter thing, F A F C debacle, it may become a recurring theme.

But let's move into my second topic this week and I wanna talk about T-Mobile. And you and I have talked about T-Mobile and their relationship with Major League Baseball. I. It's no secret. You're a huge Padres fan. I'm sorry. Your team's not doing well this season, buddy. I'm a huge Astros fan. We're doing okay.

We're in second place. The Rangers are in front of us, but what I love about T-Mobile is they, they really lean in to their uniqueness and focus on things like this. I like to say that they're knocking it outta the park with some 5G fan activations and at a high level, and this was a press release that they issued earlier this week.

Just, perfect timing. It's summer, we're in the, we're in the, the thick of baseball season. But some of the things we're doing they're working with MLB Next, that app delivering AR experiences for fans at T-Mobile Park. That includes 3D data visuals in live broadcast audio.

Certainly, we've seen 5G from an audio perspective be deployed in places like the F l. Actually at Cisco Live, they had I believe it was the CIO of nfl and she touched on that a little bit. But some of the other things they're doing no surprise to me. 5G camera feeds during a particular event there at t-Mobile field where they're doing like a home run derby batting practice, and I think you've talked about that in the past.

And then finally, Sirius XM All-Star Futures Game featuring top minor league prospects. They're testing an automated ball strike system powered by T-Mobile's, 5G Advanced Network Solution. And a n s is something that I've talked about. It's their public, private hybrid verticalized sort of approach to providing private private networking from a 5G perspective.

So it's all pretty cool stuff. Did you catch the news? Anything to add? 

I do wish I was there. I I didn't really think about it until it was too late, but yeah. I think, T-Mobile has definitely been very aggressive with the mlb. They have their T-Mobile Tuesdays deal where you get t the MLB streaming capabilities through the MLB TV app.

So there's a lot of tie-ins between T-Mobile and MLB, and, it feels like the home run Derby. And also they own it pretty much. They own it, right? Yeah. They've been sponsoring it for the last few years and, they're using like a, a ca head mounted camera using 5g.

There's a lot of interesting stuff that they're trying to do with the mlb and clearly they're investing in sports where Verizon isn't. Yeah. Verizon owns the NFL. And they're really leaning into the MLB and mls which I think is pretty clever because those are younger audiences. And those are growing. They're not as big as the nfl, but they're growing. Yeah. I used to think baseball was dying, but it's been growing with the younger audience and dying with the older audience. Yeah. MLS is much younger. So I think T-Mobile is really leaning into leveraging newer teams, newer leagues the L A F C thing that we talked about a few weeks ago with mls. They're really being more creative with how they're using their weight and their technology to en enhance the fan experience. Yeah, no, 

I agree with you. It fits really well with their demographic, the un, the uncarrier, the unconventional approach. But, they're also appealing to the people my age.

I'm a little bit older than you are, the 55 plus with, certain rate plans and entitlements and and that sort of thing. You're spot on. Verizon really owns a lion's share of of NFL with their ultra wideband. With at t they're doing a lot of collegiate sponsorship they're, they've sponsored the final four 

and b a, they do a lot of B stuff.

Yeah. 

And B a and also mentioned the Red River Shootout, my Texas Longhorns against the Oklahoma Sooners. At, at t is headquartered in Dallas I was gonna 

say at t loves Texas. So 

yeah, at t loves Texas because their headquarters is there and their ceo, Mr. Stinky resides here as well.

But you No, it's great stuff. It just, it's another really great demonstration of the power of 5G and something that we all love baseball, at least you and I love. But let's move to your second topic. And I did catch this and it did surprise me, so I'll be interested to get your insights here.

But you talk about open Signal quite a bit and they just published a recent 5G report and they ca called Verizon a winner over T-Mobile. With respect to its its experience metrics and uplink measurements. But man, I wanna hear more from you because this is surprising to me. 

Yeah. I think this is it's a challenging report mostly because they, the five pillars of 5G experience.

It's really confusing to be honest with you. Yeah. Because they have. They have six experience pillars and one coverage pillar. Okay. And then they award winners based on their experience index. So the first four categories are 5G video experience, 5g, live video experience, 5G games experience, and 5G voice app experience.

And then the others are download speed upload speed, and availability. What doesn't make any sense to me is that how does T-Mobile win on download and availability and just ever so slightly squeak out a loss by like a megabit on uplink, but losing all experience metrics because experience metrics are based on an index.

That Open Signal has created. So I don't really understand how Verizon can lose to T-Mobile in or went to T-Mobile in video experience by a point and then but have half the download speed. T-Mobile's download speed is over 200 megabits per second. Yeah. While Horizons is like a hundred, and I'm really trying to understand how they're so close to each other.

Even at t is a 60, so like I don't really understand their index. I think they talk about in de more detail, but it's not really, it doesn't, the numbers don't really make that much sense to me. Yeah. If they're so far apart in downlink coverage, why is the experience so close? Yeah. 

When I saw this, I didn't dig into it, so I'm glad you picked it as a topic this week.

I wanted to call bullshit on that because when you look at. How much further ahead T-Mobile is with n not only just their overall spectrum, deployment, low me and high, but just, the fact that they've been first to SA and that Verizon, it's still deploying it's mid band C band footprint.

It just it falls into question whether there's some manipulation here going on, whether. Verizon could manipulate, some of whatever feeds into the indices that, they tally, tally a winner, tally a loser. But yeah, something smells, 

a little one thing I'll say is they do define how these experiences are quantified.

Yeah, I also say that Verizon actually only won on upload speed by 0.3 megabits per second. So not even a full megabit. They say that like their voice app experience quantifies the experience of open signal users when using over the top voice apps says as such as WhatsApp, Skype, and Facebook Messenger on an operator's 5G network.

It uses a model derived from the IT U approach for quantifying overall vol, voice quality, and a series of calibrated technical parameters. Okay. This model characterizes the exact relationship between a technical measurements and a perceived call quality. 

I don't know, man. It sounds like a lot of gobbly good to me.

I hate to be a Verizon hater. I probably poke them a little bit too much, but they've been dead last, in this race to 5g. But 

I've been looking at some other metrics and it seems like Verizon's growth. Towards competing with T-Mobile has slowed.

Yeah. And I think that's because most of the mid band that they have to deploy in dense urban areas and suburban areas is out now. So most of their customers that are going to be able to use this technology are using it. We're already on iPhone 14. Yeah, 13, 12. So we're three generations of iPhones that have 5g.

Same with Android phones. At this point most people that are gonna use 5G are using it and Yeah. If they, most people who are have 5G service have it available. So I think Verizon and at t at t still has some room for improvement and rollout for their network. Cuz they started about a year ago.

Verizon's now what, 18 months down this path. And I think, Verizon probably has another six to 12 months until they're fully built out. Yeah. And I think at t might have a little bit longer, but I just don't see them catching T-Mobile on T-mobile's at 200 megabits per second now.

And they haven't even they don't even have their C-band stuff yet, yeah. There's, I just think that T-Mobile kind of will, will own this speed crown for the foreseeable future and I think Verizon's gonna lose the upload speed. That they got here with Open Signal fairly shortly, once they get the new C-Band spectrum, cuz they could use a lot of that for a plank.

Yeah. No solid insights that are my friend and, Ola Open Signal. It just seems there's just like this movement back and forth. They're trying to pay homage to, the operator, the mobile network operator of the quarter, but, Yeah.

I think we've analyzed and pro, and paralysis that one quite a bit. But lemme go to my third and final and I'll be quick on this one, but I thought this was interesting. So the N T I A, so that's the National Telecommunications and Information Administration.

Released additional funding to tribal entities. Native American areas in, in, in the us and this grant was 8.39 million to 17 entities. And this is coming out of a nearly 3 billion program called the Tribal Broadband Connectivity Program. And it's part of this infrastructure and investments in Jobs Act that was passed a couple of years ago in 21.

And it just got me thinking obviously There isn't a lot of specific detail behind what's gonna get deployed, but certainly there are requirements that certain speeds upload and download have to be met. With respect to, and the goal is a hybrid fiber wireless network with speeds above 25.

Megabits per second and under 100 millisecond latency for basically over 600 locations on what's called the bishop. And I'm gonna mispronounce it. PO Poe, p a i u t e Reservation. Those are, that's a pretty low bar. Again, there's no specific reference to like how this is all gonna get done, but it got me thinking, could 5G fix wireless access, play a role?

We were talking about all three of the tier one MNOs in the US at and t is making a considered investment in tribal. They've had a number of announcements where they're they're investing they're actually over investing in these areas where they're gonna, it's gonna take a longer time for them to get a payback from a fiber perspective.

But certainly in, in tribal nations as. That fiber infrastructure gets built out, it can serve as backhaul for 5G and for 5G fixed wireless access. As, and because as we've also discussed, I believe on prior podcasts as you put, fwa users on that network, they tend to consume a hell of a lot more data than a mobile user, right?

Definitely. Yeah. You get to some theoretical limits where you bomb out and you've gotta add additional infrastructure in the form. In an F to b a scenario you've gotta densify with small cells and macro cells and that sort of thing. It just got me thinking. That should be a part of the plan and, I'm sure all the MNOs are gonna be, vying and, submitting their RFPs and that sort of thing.

For this, I mean that, that amount that was released this this just recently. Isn't a ton of money in the big scheme of things, but when you look at the overall macro program, I didn't realize that program was funded with 3 billion. That's a significant amount of money and, you could do a lot with fixed wireless access in my perspective and even sub subsidize some of the the fiber for back backhaul.

But don't know if you caught it. This was an article that was published by Fierce Telecom. It was Masha. Did you mention that Masha published another article that you spoke about today? 

No, that was Monica, 

Oh, that was Monica. Ok. But yeah, Masha. Yeah, 

Nova. I did hear about this. And honestly, I think, one of the biggest challenges for a lot of these reservations is delivering con internet connectivity to them especially when these reservations are.

Quite a bit larger in the west. And yeah, I just think helping using fixed wireless especially when you think about the terrain that a lot of these reservations are on. Yeah. Being able to put maybe a millimeter wave fixed wireless to deploy on top of a mountain. Yeah. As long as it's not like a sacred mountain or something.

Yeah. You can really help to improve the quality of life for a lot of these people. That, I think in a lot of ways the US government hasn't really treated that well. So I think it's really important that, the government is finding ways to improve internet coverage and access because ultimately, the internet is a, is the great equalizer in a lot of ways.

Yeah, and I hope that, they're able to take these funds and really make good use of them to deploy it, serious 5G networks that, that improve people's lives. 

Yeah, no I agree. And there's a lot of impoverished parts of tribal nations and, and it's, it gets back to the visual divide.

When you can provide, reliable connectivity. That can create all types of opportunities for economic job growth new hybrid work from home. The, these folks can find new opportunities as well. And I'll just mention it's not a direct parallel to what we're talking about, but.

I did publish an article this week about an experience that I had here. I'm in my second home in Iel, Marta for the week. And just a lack of, or not a lack of connectivity, but basically the public mobile network bombing out during an event where the Rotary Club of Iel Marata was selling concessions to raise money for scholarships for kids in the Florida Keys that are that are underprivileged.

It just got me thinking about wow, there are so many different things that, that municipalities, can consider whether it's fixed wireless access or it's private networking. So it just made me think about that article. So just wanted to share with my viewers and listeners that I did post that today.

And I talk about. Really more or less an opportunity for private networking in the Florida Keys to support the tourism industry. Much different than tribal nations that are struggling with unemployment and some levels of poverty. But here, the service industry it's dominant, bartenders, fishing charters.

Snorkel excursions even some of the local bars and restaurants and connectivity. I point out how connectivity can really drive a better tourism experience and put most importantly, maximize, revenue for an industry like tourism. But with that that shameless plug, let's go to your third and final topic.

And you wanna talk about another really cool activation like I talked about earlier, but this is with Wimbledon and Vodafone. 

Yeah. So this is a. Wimbledon, Vodafone partnership. And basically what they're doing is they're partnering with a company called Give Vision that creates headsets that have smartphones inside of them, that allow for vision impaired users to actually be able to more easily see what's happening on the court. And they're able to Bring these images closer to the eye and stimulate photoreceptors in ways. So that site can be regained. And they're using 5G to power this experience because previously fans who use these headsets with this technology would have to be within 10 to 20 meters of a transmitter box.

Yeah. In a, predetermined accessibility zone. And now with 5g, they're able to experience this in any part of the stadium without having to, sit in a special section and can experience the match together with their friends and family as opposed to having to, sit in a special section so they can enjoy it.

And it's really cool because this is something that I think enhances the user experience for users who might otherwise not go to an event like this because they know that they can't see anything. And it's just really exciting because this is a really powerful application of 5G that I think, realize, realizes the potential of the technology to enhance something that already existed before it, but, improves accessibility to that.

And maybe even it helps scale the technology to a point where it can be, more viable in more places. And maybe they, they can deploy this in more arenas rather than, having to pick and choose which court or which stadium they deployed. And, because I don't know if you've ever been to Wimbledon, but there's a center court, main court, and then there's a bunch of side courts and Right.

This could definitely be one of those things where you could deploy one central. Compute solution in the whole facility and every single court is enabled by it. And I think that's really something that would help to improve access and enjoyment for people who, 

who have impaired vision. Yeah, no, I think it's a fantastic, again, demonstration of the power of 5g.

Just the whole inclusivity aspect of it. And to your point, often people that have impairments. They, they can't enjoy some of the simple things that, that those of us without impairments enjoy. And so I think, the exclusive, inclusivity aspect of this is really powerful.

I haven't been to Wimbleton, but I've seen the layout and you're absolutely right. The scalability of it could be potentially exciting, I think. Just beyond this use case, I think the potential for people that are site impaired there could be other use cases and applications, and that's often the case with with a technology or with a technology demonstration that it gets really smart people and developers and engineers and software, engineers.

Stimulated, right? And it's just, it's this whole notion. I like to, one of my catch phrase is, competition, drives innovation. That was a great use case. I didn't catch that, so I appreciate you sharing it, my friend. But hey, it's been another great podcast as we wrap up our 4th of July week.

But why don't you take us home? 

Absolutely. We hope our viewers and the centers on this week's is interesting. If anyone out would like to provide insights on Aspecific 5G topic for future podcast. Please reach out to us on social media. Will is at Will Town Tech and I'm at Ancho. We hope you have a great weekend and please tune in next week and don't forget to rate and subscribe.