My name is Caitlin and I am slow thinking this morning.
Only on first cup of coffee, 8 AM Pacific time.
Yeah. And I'm Zach and I am medium thinking.
No, I guess fast thinking.
It's like it's still morning my time, 10, but second cup of coffee,
ready to go, excited to talk about psychology and science.
Yeah, yeah. Fast thinking.
Maybe I am. And this is manipulating the masses.
Don't give yourselves to brutes, men who despise you and slave you,
who regiment your lives, tell you what to do, what to think, what to feel,
who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder.
Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men, machine men,
with machine minds and machine hearts.
You are not machines. You are not cattle.
You the people have the power.
All right, Caitlin, we talked last week about the October surprise,
the political October surprise and some examples of these surprises
that creep in. And we mentioned last week the timing of this is very important.
Yeah, October.
They're good information in July.
Yeah, it's exactly.
And since the elections are early November, it's a very close window
to voters making their decisions, not a lot of time for something to come out.
The theme of the October surprises were all very bombastic, emotional,
tugged on your strings, your mental strings of like, oh, I don't like that.
Like I was thinking of the William Harding coming out and saying that he's
having to battle that he's not actually of African descent.
The white guy, you know, like these crazy claims.
I would argue that a lot of these claims are like,
yeah, they pull out your moral heart strings.
Like it's definitely a black and white line or right and wrong.
So I think of the one I can't even remember the presidency,
but it was way back 1840, something like that, where the to be president,
someone made a claim that he branded his slaves.
So that's very like black and white.
There's no gray area with that.
So I think these October surprises come out and say these.
Yeah, like you said, bombastic.
Love that word, by the way.
I think that was your fast thinking brain that came up with that.
Yeah, bombastic claims that are that there's no gray area to it.
It's like, this is right and wrong.
Yeah.
And I completely agree.
And then the piece that always amazes me is like these campaigns,
especially nowadays, these presidential campaigns,
like somebody has already announced that they're running for 2024 presidency.
And this is in December of 2022.
Like there is a these campaigns are long.
You're running for a long time in the primaries.
Why are voters still so easily swayed?
One week out before the election.
Right? Like why?
Why is this so this October surprise so impactful?
And it is there is some science behind it.
And that's what we're going to cover today.
It's it's this decision making process of fast thinking and slow thinking.
And political campaigns use this.
Marketers, such as ourselves, use this all the time.
And we really play on our human nature, our our instinctiveness,
to make fast decisions based on, like you said, the moral, our moral compass.
So I'm going to kick us off with one of your favorite things at 8am Pacific time
on a Friday, a math question.
Yes, I got my.
I'll toss out a math.
Okay, okay, you can do it up.
So here's my question to you, Caitlin, to kick this off.
Kick this off if a baseball bat and a baseball together cost $1.10.
So you're going to the store, you want to go hit some baseballs in the street.
You're like, I need a baseball bat and a baseball and it's $1.10 to get both of them.
And the baseball bat costs a dollar more than the baseball.
How much does the baseball cost?
$1.10 together, the bats, $1 more than the baseball.
How much does the baseball cost?
$1.10.
That is your fast thinking brain.
I know we've done this before, so I know you're cheating a little bit, but yes.
I was going to ask, do I have to pretend like I don't know this answer, but I will
preface to our listeners.
He did throw this one at me.
And my answer, my, my answer was $1.10.
That was my first answer.
Spoiler alert.
That is true to your, I was staying true to my original answer, but spoiler alert.
That is not the answer.
So walk us through it.
Majority of people, yeah.
So a majority of people say 10 cents.
When I first read this, I was like, yeah, the baseball's 10 cents.
The baseball bat's $1.10.
But the question is the baseball bat cost a dollar more than the baseball.
So actually the baseball is five cents and the baseball bat is $1.05.
So that equals $1.10 together.
And this is a classic, you know, kind of example that a fast and slow thinking,
our fast thinking brain is trying to answer the question and seem super smart.
And we're like, yep, I did that math super quick.
But really our slow thinking brain should have really analyzed and said, okay,
if the bats a dollar more really do the math at the end of it.
And I thought it's, I think it's a great example.
Do you remember those videos, Caitlin, of like, they were like viral back in our
day, we're going to date ourselves, but it's like the group of people,
like passing a dodgeball and the video says, can you count how many times,
how many passes were made in this video?
And then you're like watching, trying to count the number of passes and a dancing
bear goes in the background.
Oh yeah.
Do you remember that?
Yeah.
That's an example of our slow thinking brain, like really focusing and trying
to be like, I want to get this right, that we completely miss the dancing
bear in the background.
And we'll post that video.
It's hilarious.
I've already given the spoiler alert, but we'll post it.
You can share with your friends and make them look stupid by not seeing the dancing
bear.
I think, do you have any thoughts on that?
Do you see this fast and slow thinking brain in your everyday life?
I know we've talked about it briefly.
Did you have any moments where you're like breaking down and been like, yeah,
I made that decision.
Like that's my fast thinking going brain.
I think as a business owner, it's kind of all the time.
My searching for an answer.
I appreciate that.
Your slow thinking brain is really diving deep for it.
I have fully engaged my slow thinking brain right now.
I was trying to think of an example in my everyday life because it does take me
a little bit longer to come to a conclusion.
So I feel like I don't actually use my fast thinking break too often.
I mean, yes, these knee jerk reaction questions, for sure.
My fast thinking brain is engaged.
But when I am asked with a more in depth question, I spend my time thinking about it.
So I can't.
What about the question like, what do you want for dinner?
You know, when your husband comes to you.
But I'm just saying this is a point of contention with my girlfriend.
When she's asked that question, a very slow thinking brain,
she analyzes the options.
She thinks about it.
She really like parses through.
And my fast thinking brain is like, I'm in the mood for Chinese.
Fine, good, done.
It's like a balance of the two.
What about that?
Do you feel like you make snap decisions or are you really thinking about it?
No, I think about it a lot.
Yeah.
Because I can never, I'm never, I'm never, and I might be
different, but I'm never craving a certain food when he asks me.
And usually he'll ask me like a whore or something.
So I'm like, no, I just want to get through my work day.
So then I really do have to think about it.
So yeah, it may be my mean, my question or maybe my answer is it depends on the time
of day that you ask me that we will touch on that.
Okay.
Absolutely because your slow and fast brain come in at different points.
So let me, let me give you a background of like this fast and slow brain because
then we're kind of poking at each, but neither one is better than the other.
Both of them serve a purpose in our life.
Right.
So this decision making process was actually founded by two psychologists,
Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky.
And they highlighted it in their book.
If you're interested, the undoing project, you know, Kahneman and Tversky had
noticed in their studies as psychologists that most economic and political models
assumed that people acted logically, right?
So when, when economists are like, okay, you know, you have every person has $50,000.
This is logically, they should save this amount.
They should do this.
They should put money into a house.
They should invest portions.
We all know that these models, political and economic people do not act logically.
They act against their own interests a lot of times.
So they started diving in.
Why do people make this decisions?
And they, they really separated these two pieces out.
The fast decision making brain allows us to read people's faces, allows us to make
snap judgments for flight or, fight or flight is an example of like that fast
thinking brain.
So it does serve a purpose for us evolutionary, but that slow thinking brain,
the one that really thinks through, sits down, takes its time, is the more quote,
unquote logical decision making.
I'm going to ask you another personal question.
Do you have anything that you like purchase even though you know that you
shouldn't or like, like, do you have something you go back to the well and
you're like, yo, I shouldn't, I shouldn't buy more of this, but I'm going to,
I'm going to because.
Ah, I feel like I want to give you the answer you're looking for, but for me,
I am looking for either one.
Okay, good.
I actually am very conscious with my purchases only because I'm very, I don't
want to be that girl, but I am like anti fast fashion.
I try to be sustainable when I can.
I try not to make purchases.
Like I really don't try to, I am not big on consumerism, which is why I entered
the field of marketing.
But what about like, what about?
Great point.
But what about like art?
Like do you have a nice layout?
Like do you buy like artsy stuff for your house home decor where you're like,
I'll buy that even though maybe I don't need another end table.
It's a Q end table.
Yeah, but so no, actually that's my answer.
No, I do not make those purchases because if it is something that I really want,
it's probably comes with a higher price tag at which point I can't just pull the
trigger and say, yeah, it's cute.
Let me buy it.
I'm usually looking for like unique pieces that really do take me a while.
And Zach, I am the person that will walk into a store and convince myself out of
purchases.
Like I don't really, maybe I'll like hold onto it and carry it around the store.
And then I'll look at it again when I'm ready to make that decision.
And I'll be like, you know what?
I have a hundred sweaters.
I don't need another sweater.
So I am actually, I don't know if I'm the majority or just like kind of average,
but I will convince myself to, I talk myself out of purchases more than I talk
myself into purchases.
Wow.
Okay.
You are anomaly.
Because I feel like I love being unique.
Yeah.
I know because I feel like I will buy headphones is my kind of advice.
Like I love good headphones, like, you know, and I have like seven pairs.
Like, do I know?
No, no, no, when I see them, why?
You're calling out.
That is the weirdest thing because a headphone is a headphone.
Like you need one headphone.
No, you need one headphone.
I disagree in what give me two separate scenarios where you would need two separate
headphones, like walk me through that.
I have, yeah.
So I have, I have one for work.
These ones that I wear for work, right?
They have like a mic on them and they like ambient sound, like a lot of like, uh,
additions to that, right?
I have another pair of these Sony ones, the different color, but they, I love them
because that's my music ones because I actually had them shaped to my ear.
Like they did an analysis of my ear to like maximize the bass sound and like the
music in there.
Let me finish.
You asked the question.
Caitlin, I have another one that has like a drawdown mic like yours.
That's for like video games.
You know, I have another one that's like music, like, uh, like making music specific.
That's like corded and like has it locked in.
These ones, some of them are wireless.
Um, yeah.
So there are numerous, some of them have better bass.
Some of them are more noise canceling.
I have like ones for airplanes that are like noise canceling.
I buy them, each one has their own benefits and I buy them for certain situations.
We only look good headphones.
We only have 30 minutes to talk about fast and slow thinking and political
campaigns, but I have so many comments about what you just said.
I mean, the whole molding to your ear.
I almost fell out of my seat.
It's amazing though.
It's amazing.
The necessity is not there is not there.
It is.
The difference is I will argue with you like the, the sound quality, uh, like when
you're, when you're listening to a good song on fucking AirPods, like it's not
the same as getting like locked in noise canceling.
Canceling everything's out of your brain except the music.
So good.
You got to get in that zone.
Caitlin, it's like great to get in that zone.
My jaw is still on the floor.
I need it.
I need to use my slow brain to process everything that you've just said, including
the fact that you have an entire headset for video games, which a, I didn't even
realize you played video game.
So this sheds a different light on your personality for me.
And that is also something I need to take some time to process.
Yeah, that's fair.
I'm not like the Pew Pew shooter video games, but I will occasionally play FIFA
because I'm a big soccer person and just like, I love talking shit to the 12 year
olds.
I'm not going to lie.
Oh, so you go online.
You talk to other people.
Oh yeah, I'll play online.
Oh yeah.
I'll play online and then, uh, so it's in there and then like, I'll, I'll just
talk shit to him.
It's amazing.
My husband threatens me sometimes that he's going to take up video games and I
serve divorce papers.
I don't, I think there is a delicate ballot, but FIFA is okay.
FIFA is okay.
I'll give it to you.
Yeah.
I'm not the shooter ones.
Like I'm not into that.
Like this, the constant sound of like gunfire in my ears, like no, thank you, but
I will like, you know, play that every now and then.
So happy we wasted five minutes talking about headphones.
We can cut it out, but it is needed to be said.
I'm going to leave it in.
I'm going to leave it in because, okay, to, to your point, let's bring it back to
the topic.
I know that's irrational.
I know.
Like I agree.
Well done.
I agree that it's irrational.
Can I stop myself?
No, because my fast thinking brain is like how I treat myself.
No, it's like, it's like the treat to myself.
I love them.
I think they're fascinating, like the different technology and how it runs in.
I know I have enough.
Right.
I know one headphone could solve this, but do I want one headphone?
Fuck no.
Okay.
I have a great example of my fast thinking brain.
So when I am like, I use the spot when I, when you, when you said, this is what I
do to treat myself, it triggered some ideas.
So for me, when I'm at a spa, like let's use a spa as an example, like love to
do shit to my face, right?
Love facials.
And then the esthetician will tell me, okay, this was one facial.
I think you could use three more.
And I'm like, my fast brain is thinking like, well, I don't want her to think I'm
poor and I can't afford these three facials.
So yeah, take my money and they get me to sign on the dotted line right then and
there.
And that is my example of like, I'm not going to be able to do that.
Then and there, and that is my example of like panic mode.
I need to make this decision quickly because I want to maintain my youth forever.
Yes.
Oh, that's a great example.
And it leads me to my, uh, my example that I had pre-planned, not the headphones,
but the pre-planned one that I have is, uh, is, uh, time share selling.
So I wanted to bring this to marketing, how they use it, this fast and slow thinking
brain in time share.
Have you sat through a time share?
Yeah.
Have you sat through a time share?
No.
Pitch before.
But I have watched a South Park episode.
Yeah.
No, it's a great one.
It's hilarious.
So I sat through one through the, uh, allure of, of getting a free ticket to Disney
world, they said, Hey, if you sit through this pitch and you don't buy anything, we
will give you two free tickets to Disney world.
Right.
That was their like kind of hook to get you in.
And I was like, fuck it.
How hard can this be to sit through, uh, uh, to, and then I got to tell you, Kaitlyn,
we sat through it.
I thought about bringing a lawsuit, never got the tickets.
They made it so difficult to get the tickets.
So difficult, like impossibly difficult to get the tickets.
Wait, you are the South Park episode.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
Oh, they nailed it.
They nailed it.
You could like, it couldn't get it.
Like I thought about like being like, let's take this down, but it's a sleazy
business anyway.
Anyway, in this, and like I was leaving for like, I had sold all the stuff in my
apartment and I was doing my techno mad thing in Europe, like right.
Like I had already planned it.
So I was like, no way am I buying a time share?
Like I'm already going to live in Europe.
Like who cares?
I knew I was going to make it through.
But the tactics they use, right, like is fascinating.
So they have couples sitting together.
Like it's like school, like all the couples are sitting together.
You have to be a couple to get the time share in there.
But they're like, they're like, it's just getting you like with questions
like how much time do you spend on vacation a year?
Like how much money do you spend when you go on vacation?
Wouldn't it be great to be affordable?
Wouldn't it great to know the place that you're doing this?
But the piece that really stuck out to me when they're making the sales pitch
is when someone, they broke out into like individual groups, you'd have like
an individual rep come to you to like pitch.
The piece that stuck out to me is when someone would buy this, when someone
would cave, they would pop a bottle of champagne.
So you hear the sound in the back, right?
And then when they're walking to the couple, they're clinking the glasses
like purposefully as loud as they can, the champagne glasses, right?
And this is what really killed me is that is the fast thinking brain
of being in the simple step of I want that.
I want a glass.
I want a glass of champagne.
I want to be celebrated.
Exactly.
And so then once they did that one time, three other couples.
No.
Purchased like that.
Yes.
Fascinating.
And those.
They clink the glasses.
Three couples.
Bam, bam, bam.
Pulled the trigger.
And those couples are currently in lawsuits with this time share company
trying to get out of them and regretting all of their decisions.
100%.
It's a terrible option.
But that fast thinking brain, like we all know, they prefaced at the beginning
of this pitch.
If anybody makes snarky comments, if you're sarcastic, we will kick you out
and you won't get your ticket to Disney World.
Yeah.
Like they're setting the tone.
In the beginning, like they're not going to take anybody breaking this facade
because it's so carefully manicured and they know it's such a bad purchase
that they will do.
Are they're just playing on your fast thinking brain?
The pressure of other people around you, the scene, another couple by like your
example, like I don't want to think that them to think that I'm poor.
I can afford this.
Like let me pull the trigger.
I want a glass of champagne.
I want that clinking glass.
I want to cheers.
Like they're pulling on this fast thinking brain.
Fast thinking decision making brain in as many ways as possible to get you to buy
a time share.
Wow.
I did not think that rant was I just got on my soapbox.
Let me just pull that off.
Step back for a second.
Take a breath.
I apologize.
Caitlin, I went off.
No, no, no.
I have actually follow up questions.
Why what were the next steps that made it so hard to get a ticket?
Oh, you had to you had to mail a check to a certain attach the flyer.
They signed a sheet.
You had to put in a rebate check.
They said it was free.
It's a rebate.
You're going to get back.
Yep.
So you like mail in the check to an address, a PO box.
Yeah.
And then they're like, they call you and if they missed your call, like if they miss you
one time, they're like, you have two hours to call back.
Otherwise you're like, and then I kept hitting it and then I'd follow up and they just drop
off and be like, where are my tickets?
Where's the rebate?
And they just would not answer at some point.
Like they were like, you have to pick these three, you have like three dates to pick and
like you have to mail it.
Like nothing can be done electronically.
Like they send you a form and you have to fill it out and pick three specific dates.
Horrible snail mail.
Like they drag their feet at that.
I mean, it's it's incredible.
My dad told me this very early on.
Nothing in life is free.
People nothing in life is free.
There you go.
Period.
And I'll cap on a modern take to that is like if it is free like Facebook, you are
the product.
We said that before.
Like if getting a Facebook profile is free, that means you're the product.
That is some hot take.
It's true though, right?
It is so true.
Love that you wrangled that back.
Okay.
So marketers do this all the time, this fast thinking brain, the slow thinking brain.
We pray on you is what you're saying.
Yes.
Now to bring that to politics because we're covering the 2024 election.
That is what the October surprise is and that is why they drop it in October.
It plays on our kind of gut reactions.
They do it right before the election and there's not enough time for our collective
societal conscious to process this information and really slowly parse it out and think it
out.
I mean when you think about this last, I mean it might have been two elections ago.
2016.
Let's use 2016.
2016.
Hillary's emails.
You know, it was, it was, we weren't perversions.
Go ahead.
Perversions.
You didn't have enough time to really parse out and you went into, if you haven't listened
to the previous episode, I recommend it because Caitlin does a great job of like going into
details of what the actual email controversy was.
But we didn't have time to go through and explain the server data and explain the different
domains pointing to that server.
It was Hillary Clinton had classified emails on a private server and 30,000 of them got
deleted.
Boom.
That's what, that's what our process, our fast thinking brains were able to process
in that time.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
I want to quickly talk about Trump and when the leaked tape came out about, I'm not, he's
revolting so I'm not going to like repeat it.
But yeah, the leaked tape came out where he's like, hey I'm a celebrity and I can do anything
I want to women.
What are your thoughts because that is, that's very black and white, right?
People are never going to be like, yeah, let's assault women.
People are never going to get on their high horse about assaulting women.
However, what I think happened is people can either hate him more so further they're discussed
with him or they just choose not to care.
And they're like, hey, I'm just going to ignore this.
And with not necessarily they have time to say it's right or wrong, it's more like, am
I going to engage or am I not going to engage?
And that's actually kind of how I felt with the Hillary Clinton emails.
It's like, am I going to engage in this narrative or am I going to not engage?
And it's like, I didn't even know what the emails were about.
What are the emails?
Why are we all in a hype about the emails?
But what do you think about the Trump thing because that is very morally black and white.
Is it though?
I think is my question.
We'll go into our moral.
No, you know me.
I agree 100%.
That is horrible.
But I do my best.
I do my best.
But at the end of the day, for some people, I think what the comeback was was, do you
remember what they said to defend him?
Do you remember the line that they said?
No.
Locker room talk.
Locker room?
Locker room talk.
Right?
That was the comeback.
And so they're just diverting that fast thinking brain to say, yeah, this is awful.
But like, all men kind of talk like this.
Like this is how men act.
Boys will be boys.
You know, like it is that kind of mentality that people are like, okay, doesn't affect
my moral compass because men are dogs and they just, I've heard a lot worse in my day.
It's just fact.
Men are dogs.
Fact.
Okay, move on.
Like we're not going to change that.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
Yeah, so I think for, I agree with you, like morally deplorable, but it's, it's for some
people it's just, they're fed, but they rely on that fast thinking brain.
They're like, oh yeah, they're not really thinking about it and saying, okay, what does
this mean as a president to think of women this way?
How will that trickle down because he's governing all of us, you know, men and their fast thinking
brain just says, oh yeah, don't care.
Like I've heard that before.
Boom, done.
Category, file that away in your brain.
Right.
And so that goes to your point of like engaging and disengaging.
If we're able to easily just fast think, file it into a category in our brains.
We don't think about it much.
Okay.
So the, with the last, you know, a couple of minutes here, I do want to talk about how
we can counteract, how we can understand when our fast thinking brain clocks in and when
our slow thinking brain clocks in and how we can tell when politicians are trying to
prey on that fast thinking brain.
So I think if you can pinpoint it in messaging as a listener and see when they're trying
to do it, you can actively stop yourself, pause, think really thoroughly about what
they're saying and see on both sides.
See if it resonates with you or see if it doesn't resonate with you.
So I'm going to give you an example, Caitlin.
They did a study of parole petitions in prisons.
So three judges typically sit on a parole board.
They have all day, they sit there and different parolees, people up for parole in prison, go
plead their case, give them information, and then these three judges determine if they're
viable for parole or if they need to go back to prison and parole is not granted.
It's a very big decision, a very heavy decision and important decision for a lot of lives,
right?
So they did this study and what they found was the quality of these parole petitions didn't
matter at all.
Good behavior, what they've done did not matter.
What did matter was the time of day that they saw the judges.
So this goes back to your point of like your fast and slow thinking brain, right?
On average, when the judges started their day, so they start their day at 9 o'clock,
they start hearing petitions, approval rate was 35%, right?
So about one in every three people would get parole.
As the morning approach to lunch, 10 a.m., 11 a.m., 12 p.m., like around that time, that
number dropped to 12%.
Wow.
So they would start at 35, lunch time they're at 12, break for lunch for an hour.
When they come back from lunch after they've had a break, their approval rate jumps to
65%.
So it's clear difference, like right after lunch and this is an example of how our slow
thinking brain kind of weighs on us and why it's hard for people to do it because they're
really considering these parole, it's not like they're doing a bad job, they're just
mental dexterity is being reduced and reduced and reduced until they can break, give their
brain a break and now they're coming back and they're feeling like they can start over
again.
Does that, do those numbers surprise you at all?
Well, yes, they surprise me, but they also make sense to me when I reflect on my own
energy zones.
Like to me, first thing in the morning is usually when I'm firing at all cylinders.
Today seems to be the exception, but in the mornings, I'm usually, and I'm paying extra
close attention to what I'm doing.
This is when I usually do like my larger thinking bigger projects and I block myself out.
And then in, yeah, lunch, obviously you're wearing yourself down and then when you think
of after lunch, it's almost like you're kind of excited that it's going towards, it's
like the end of the day, you're almost, you get to see your family, you're refueled and
you're just kind of maybe a little extra happy.
You have that extra shot of endorphins.
So I can see the morning being extra critical, but still fair.
And then right after lunch is I'm just fucking excited to be done.
I'm feeling extra good.
Everyone, parole for everyone.
Yes.
Yes, I'm with you.
And so I think, I mean, for the listeners out there, that's a great little note.
When you're asking for a raise is sketch, think about the time of day that you're going
to meet and ask for a raise.
They're probably going to be more agreeable right after lunch, right?
You can use this to your advantage a little bit.
If you have something to ask, schedule it right after lunch.
Make sure that your boss eats lunch first.
Take some breaks.
There you go.
Good point.
I do want to apply this timeline over the span of a political campaign because this
is why the decisions near this October surprise that we talked about works as well because
we've been processing every day in the news cycle is hitting us with new things and new
things and new things.
And especially in this modern age, it is so rapid fire.
We don't really get to dissect what's going on.
I mean, there was, there literally, I don't remember when the tax fraud case against the
Trump campaign started, but it ended a few weeks ago, like to like last week.
And this was in like 2015.
It's been like, I don't know how many years, right?
And this thing is just running in the background.
And like by the end of it, you're just mentally exhausted.
You're going to go with your fast thinking brain by the time.
And that's why the October surprise works because we are just drained of our processing
power by the end of these elections.
They're exhausting.
So work your best, save up your processing power for that last little week.
I also use my spa analogy where I get, they get you to the counter and you have to make
your decision right then and there.
So October is the counter in this example.
And you have to say, yes, I will drop another thousand dollars or no, I'm poor.
Nobody wants to be poor.
So people are willing to drop that thousand dollars just to, you know, make that decision
easier.
I completely agree.
Okay.
And then the piece that I do want to keep in mind is during the campaigns, keep in mind
when politicians are using specific messaging to prey on your fast thinking decision making.
So let me give you a specific example.
You are now Dr. McMillan, PhD.
You've worked in a hospital, a very high end hospital.
You have a patient in a lot of pain, Caitlin.
There's a lot of pain.
Though it's not dire, it's not like fatal, they're just in a lot of pain and you're looking
for options.
I come to you, I'm nurse Zach, you know, let's fight the gender stereotypes here.
You're the doctor, I'm the nurse.
And I suggest a procedure to you.
But I say, hey, you can do this procedure, but there's a 10% chance of death.
Do you do it?
Do you pull the trigger?
10% chance.
Now the person's not fatal.
Yeah, the person's not in fatal condition, but this procedure can help their pain.
And I say there's a 10% chance of death.
Do you pull the trigger and do the process?
I am, again, I might be an anomaly, but my personality is high risk, high reward.
So I'm always going to veer towards more of the high risk, high reward scenario.
Fuck, I mean, this is why I'm not a doctor.
This is why I have my job and they have theirs.
Because I'm tossing lives around, like it's no big deal.
It's like a chess game.
It's a chess game.
So to me personally, 10% seems like not that much.
Doesn't seem like a high enough risk.
Then I'm like, yeah, let's do it.
What are the chances?
The chances are 10%?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Like, it's one in out and every 10 of these are going to go horribly wrong.
Okay, well, you are the anomaly.
So they actually did this study across a bunch of hospitals.
Only 12% of doctors said they would do the procedure if there was a 10% chance of death.
Only 12%.
Really?
Right?
Yeah, but then, so they switched it and they, now what if I told you there was a 90% success
rate that it works 90% of the time?
Sounds nice.
Right?
It's the same thing.
And that changed when they asked doctors that 94% said that they would do the procedure.
So they were saying the same thing.
There's a 10% death rate or a 90% success rate and only 12% said they would do the death.
And 94% said they would pull the trigger on the 90% success rate.
And it is a framing.
It is the messaging that marketing companies like us use and politicians use.
So especially when they use examples of the economy of politicians, you know, be very,
very careful about how they're portraying numbers, how they're portraying statistics
in their campaigns to back up their point because it's going to be a framing issue,
not really an indicator of how good they are at their job.
That surprised you that so many of us are swayed by just little tweaks and messaging?
Yes, yes, yes.
I would think the percentages would have been closer together.
Like 94% seems crazy versus a 12%.
I want to say approval.
I would think that they would be closer to the middle.
So you know, 10% of doctors say that they would take that risk while 30% of doctors
say that they would take the 90% success rate.
Those numbers seem drastic to me.
Yeah, well, I think what it speaks to, if we're putting on our marketing hat, is putting
yourself in the position of the doctor because as a doctor, you are making the decision to
do the procedure and you are in charge of the outcome.
And if death is in the word of the outcome, you're going to avoid it, right?
You don't want that.
But if success is in the word of the outcome, then you're like, yeah, I will be a successful
doctor.
I will make that.
And it is, we do this with marketing all the time, right?
Put the user in the position, show live action shots, right?
Clear skin, you will have clear skin.
You know, rather than curing acne, put clear skin in the messaging because then you're
thinking about clear skin, not about your acne, right?
Glass half full, not glass and deep.
So I see this particularly being used, my last point here is I see this particularly
being used when talking about the future of America, you know?
They talk about grim prospects that America is going to die, it's going to be taken over,
our culture is going to fall.
I don't know.
But it's a very grim outlook and then there's a very positive outlook of like America, hope,
bring America together, you know?
And both of these things are, the reality is going to be somewhere in the middle, right?
We're not going to be a perfect union, but we're not going to go up in flames and completely
be annihilated.
So there is somewhere in the middle and politicians use that phrasing to make you feel a certain
way about voting for them in your fast thinking brain.
And that records it.
Okay, so we'll be coming back next week.
We're going to start to get into morality.
So Caitlin's going to pull some different political situations.
News to me.
Yeah, news to you.
And then there's going to be some political situations or political stories that have happened
in the last year that pull on our moral strings and why we're divided over them.
So we're going to be doing that.
Please give us a follow on Facebook, manipulating the masses podcast.
Give us a follow on Instagram, McMillan Phillips.agency.
See what we're up to on the business end too, you know?
And see some awesome memes because like we're a meme company.
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YouTube?
If our YouTube's going to be up and running.
YouTube.
You too.
Watch this episode on YouTube.
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All right.
Any last words, Caitlin?
Nope.
Let's get to it.
Have a great week.
We'll read it back next week, everybody.
Bye.