My name is Caitlin and today we're talking about big bottles, big money, big alcohol.
Oh, big alcohol.
Okay, that gave it away.
I was like, big bottles?
Are we, okay, can I take a stab?
I'm Zach.
I'm like the co-host.
Can I, can I take, are we narrowing it down to any specific type of alcohol or is it general alcohol?
General alcohol, big alcohol.
Big alcohol.
Love it.
Then I'm Zach and I just made a green tea for this.
So I should have, if I would have known ahead of time, I would have like gotten in the mood a little bit.
I was gonna, I was, I was like, it's afternoon sometime.
He might be like dipping into a cold beer.
But you are sick.
So, but you are, you know, hopped up on Dayquil.
So I know, I feel all sorts of ways.
Like this is my flu game.
This is like, I'm showing up.
I'm going to muscle through it.
But like, I don't know what's about to come out of my mouth.
It is the filters are gone.
All right.
And this is manipulating the masses.
Don't give yourselves to brutes.
Men who despise you and slave you, who regiment your lives.
Tell you what to do, what to think, or what to feel.
Who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle.
Use you as cannon fodder.
Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men.
Machine men with machine minds and machine hearts.
You are not machines.
You are not cattle.
You, the people have the power.
All right. Alcohol.
Okay.
Flu game, flu game strong.
Flu game strong.
Let's do it.
All right.
We're going to explore how alcohol brands target, represent,
and engage women specifically.
Any guesses on why alcohol companies want to target women?
Oh, I think there's lots of reasons.
It's the same reason why like bars used to have ladies nights, right?
Like if you get the ladies in free, everybody else will follow.
I think drinking culture is spearheaded by women in its own, in its own way.
I think you're on to something,
but let me point you in the right direction.
So, you know, this is kind of like, think about all those ads in the 60s.
We went through the 60s and the 70s where we saw cigarette companies,
alcohol companies just over sexualizing women as a whole,
and then came like the liberation movement.
So, in large, women have more, have an increased economic independence,
better educated, increased affordability of alcohol.
So, women are taking up space in, have buying power,
which is what we have.
I would completely agree with that.
Doven to in prior podcasts, it's no different in the alcohol industry.
So, alcohol companies are capitalizing on this kind of feminism that we're seeing post-80s.
Yeah.
Is it kind of like the old spice analysis that we did recently
where it's like 60% of women buy men's body wash?
Is it still like they're the ones making the household decisions to choose what alcohol is in the...
No, it has nothing to do with the household.
It's more independent.
So, how people are individually consumers, not as a household.
Yep. We are three minutes in and I already dug myself a hole.
This is going to be a great day, Caitlin.
This is going to be a great day.
All right. Yes.
Women?
I am with you now.
Women and liquor, two things that we might have to tiptoe around,
but we'll get through it.
Me just instantly defining their buying power based on a household.
Nice job, Zach.
Off to a hot start.
All right.
Thank you.
Yep.
Nice job.
I'll just direct you.
We'll redirect everyone for a while.
Thank you.
You always got my back.
Thank you.
So, the reason I really wanted to dive into this is because recently alcohol abuse,
prevention organizations, different health bodies, and news outlets have all flogged the
fact that more women are drinking at unhealthy levels, as well as a rise in female binge drinking
and alcohol related deaths, all revolving around women.
For nearly a century, women have been closing the gender gap in alcohol consumption,
binge drinking, and alcohol use disorder.
So, what was previously a three to one ratio for risky drinking habits in men versus women
is now closer to a one to one globally.
Really?
Globally.
So, women are pacing men.
Wow.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Especially globally.
Globally.
I thought the same thing.
Yeah.
Like, I feel like there's, I mean, there's so many taboos, I mean, around alcohol, around the
world, you know?
Yeah.
I, it's, that's interesting to me.
I don't know if this is, yeah, taboos for sure, like, especially in Asian cultures,
but you know, something I've always thought about since I was 18 years old is like, the
drinking age in America has been 21, but in European countries, it's 18.
So, I've always felt that European countries have a lot more respect for alcohol because
they kind of grow up with it versus Americans.
As soon as we turn 21, we binge.
We do not know how to treat alcohol.
We don't know how to drink it.
And yeah, it's a taboo.
I completely agree.
Now, do you think, because I've had a lot of these conversations with my friends, do you
think lowering the age to 18 in America that those stupid decisions that 21 year olds will
make will just be made earlier?
Like, is that, is it like, we're not getting away from that, right?
But I don't know.
I think it's a whole cultural shift.
I think it's going to, I mean, my parents were pretty,
not like pretty straight.
I mean, they were like a normal amount of strict.
Lucky you, normal parents, Caitlin.
Shout out to my mom who's an avid listener.
I love you, but normal parents, Caitlin.
Okay.
Normal amount of strictness, revolving, partying and alcohol.
And like, you know, some parents like kind of, they don't mind.
They know that kids are going to be kids.
Like you're going to drink as long as you're safe.
My parents did not have those conversations with me.
They like would prefer to just kind of not know about it in general.
And, and I think like changing the age of alcohol, of consumption wouldn't change.
And so, yes, to your point, they would just be making those stupid decisions earlier.
Instead of like in Italy, the whole family starts drinking when they're 12 years old
and you learn to appreciate alcohol.
And so by the time you are of drinking age, you're not abusing it like we abuse it.
And the downsides of alcohol too, I think that's so important to learn.
You know, you talked about addiction, you talk about health benefits,
but even it could be the simplest like learning what a real hangover is.
It's a great deterrent to alcohol.
And like the earlier you get that, the more you respect it.
Although real, real hangovers don't really happen until your body can no longer handle
alcohol, which is like in your late 20s.
Like when you're 18, you're like bounce back in an hour.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think so.
But also, yeah, they only get worse.
They only get worse with time.
Um, so just some stop for you.
The latest US data from 2019 shows that women in their teens and early 20s reported
drinking and getting drunk at higher rates than their male peers.
So what we previously said is that there's a one to one ratio globally amongst men and women.
But now from women's mouths themselves, they're reporting getting drunk at higher
rates than their male peers.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So are we going to get into what we credit that?
Or do you have any opinions on why that is being a...
Sure, do.
...yourself?
Sure, a woman who has gotten my drinking privileges revoked.
Yes, yes.
I mean, whenever you're comfortable, you know, talking about, but yes, yes, absolutely.
Yes.
I think, yeah.
We're definitely going to get into that.
And I definitely have a lot to weigh in on that.
I forgot to ask you prior to recording and I was like, come on.
How much we should talk about, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I wouldn't have chosen this topic had I not been like extremely passionate about
it and comfortable with everything.
Okay, done.
We're on the same page now.
I can let loose, let the date wheel really take me over now, you know?
Like, okay, I'm in it.
Get that acetaminophen popping.
I can't even say that word right now.
You are on another level than me.
It's my friend named Caitlin, acetaminophen.
We're getting strong.
I don't know.
In 19...
So a little bit of history and research on big alcohol.
In 1988, alcohol was declared as a group one carcinogen.
Which is a direct cause of cancer in humans by the World Health Organization.
Who?
Oh yeah, who?
Not the who.
Just who.
Not the who.
Recently made famous by COVID.
They were pretty famous before, but okay, we'll take COVID.
We'll take COVID.
So yeah, group one carcinogen.
And just for funsies, I pulled a couple of other group one carcinogens.
Oh god.
Do you want to take a stab?
Smoking.
Yep, tobacco.
Process foods, is that out there?
Yes, processed meats.
Processed meats.
There's a whole...
Being in a relationship.
Yes.
Toxic.
No, there's a whole list of them, but I just pulled some interesting ones.
So tobacco, yes.
Formaldehyde is also a group one carcinogen.
Arsenic is in the same family.
That makes sense.
That tracks.
Esfesto.
Coal.
Hepatitis.
Group one carcinogen.
And then opium.
Oh yeah.
Wow.
The one that surprised me the most is coal.
You feel like if it was...
I mean, just like that's a government rating, right?
Or the World Health Organization rating.
Yes.
You think people would be like, yeah, maybe we should move away from coal.
I know it's funding this town, but it's a direct cause of cancer.
You know?
Like, I don't know.
I think people have known that for ages.
But nobody acts on it.
I feel like it's just kind of like people focus on the fossil fuel part of it.
Okay, replace everything you're saying with the word alcohol.
Since 1988, people have known this is a group one carcinogen and nobody acts on it.
That's so true.
So...
Everybody's just buying it.
So obviously research has confirmed the direct link between alcohol and cancer of...
Wow.
The breast cancer is a big one throughout and mouth.
So everything that tobacco came down for, alcohol is also known for, which is just crazy to me.
And obviously this risk is increased with any amount of alcohol, but it's kind of like the
more you drink, the more risk there is, obviously.
And this is just like the same story over and over and over again.
We saw it with the tobacco companies, how they lied about negative side effects.
Exxon knew about climate change, but they lied about that.
So it doesn't even surprise us that nobody really knew about this group one carcinogen.
Because alcohol, big alcohol, and I'm calling it big alcohol.
I don't even know if that's kind of like layman's terms.
It's like the lobby.
The lobby.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the lobbyists for alcohol.
So it shouldn't come as a surprise that this was manipulated by big alcohol.
Yeah, not surprised at all.
Disappointed, but not surprised.
Disappointed.
So a little bit more on that.
How does alcohol, big alcohol, or just like painting a picture of this big alcohol company,
big alcohol, how do they manipulate this type of research?
Well, in a couple ways, they claim that low to moderate alcohol consumption has a positive
effect, has a positive impact on health.
And does this not ring true to you?
Like in every health magazine or like actually not health magazine,
let's get away from that, but like cosmopolitan that I used to read at college,
it'd be like consuming one glass of red wine is actually really healthy for your heart.
Have you not heard that?
I've heard that plenty of times.
Yeah.
Like with athletes and stuff like that.
So they kind of claim that low to moderate alcohol consumption has a positive impact on your health,
even going as far to say that more women's lives are saved by moderate drinking than are lost
from alcohol related deaths.
Okay.
So they're distracting people from the impact of alcohol on cancer risk by referring to other
risk factors that people should be more concerned about, i.e. diabetes or heart disease or whatever.
And they're just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is like alcohol doesn't do this.
You should actually be focused on diabetes.
So these claims came from a research showing that low level drinking can protect against
certain heart conditions and type two diabetes.
But listen to this, these studies compared low to moderate drinkers with people who didn't drink at all
or what they call them abstainers.
They found that people who drank at a moderate level had better health afterwards.
But these research findings have been disputed for several reasons.
One, many of the people included in the abstainer group had previously been drinkers but had given up due to underlying health conditions.
So these moderate drinkers were being compared to people who had already had preexisting health conditions.
Yeah.
And Zach, what do you think the other big problem here is that alcohol companies funded this research?
That's what I was going to jump on with.
You were?
Like who funded this thing?
Like it's gotta be, it's gotta be them, right?
Like nuts.
They straight up did.
So obviously this is biased.
Used in marketing campaigns to the like, I mean, I've never heard the claim that they save more lives than are killed.
That is a bit audacious.
Like that is nuts.
I haven't heard that direct language used, but I always like, as soon as I read that, I was like,
I thought back to all of these magazines that I would read as a 20 year old trying to justify my own drinking habits.
And like, oh, well, Cosmopolitan said that I can drink four glasses of red wine and I'm actually going to be a healthier person for it.
No.
Or like, I've also read somewhere that it was like, oh yeah, engage in a boozy brunch and then go work out because you can.
What?
Yeah, I heard that.
I mean, I read that in the magazine, like these are all things that stayed with me through my adulthood.
So drunk working out sounds awful, awful.
I get stoned before I work out.
That's fun.
But no, drinking.
Fuck no.
No.
So knowing all of this and I like, you brought it up earlier.
It's like, I forget what example you used already, but why do you think we're willing to turn to blind eye to alcohol?
I think that's a, that's a great question, Caitlin.
I think for a multitude of reasons, I think there is this kind of allure and romanticism about prohibition back in the day.
And like, you know, like,
Like, when alcohol was taken off the streets, there's almost this like, what a crazy time that was like, what, like, that was just ridiculous.
So I do think like there's an element that we've accepted it because in our history, our pretty recent history, we've tried to take it out before and it didn't work.
Right.
So I do think there's an acceptance there.
I also think that it's just like we're, we're bombarded.
Our alcohol marketing budgets, some of the biggest in the world and like they are bombarding you with marketing all the time.
I think just to piggyback off of all of that, it's like, I think we trust as humans, we're like too trusting in the governing organizations.
So we haven't really, did you know that alcohol was a group on carcinogen?
No, I had no idea.
I had no idea.
And so there's kind of this element that we're not being told all of this information and nobody's making noise around it.
And we're overly trusting in the World Health Organization and in the FDA and all of these organizations that are supposed to be monitoring what we put into our body.
Yeah.
We trust them to tell us what's right and wrong, but nobody has told us that liquor is a group on carcinogen.
Fuckin' crazy.
So I think, I think there's an element of us being true to trustworthy and not doing, not wanting to seek out the research ourselves.
Yeah, I think it's, it's the basic human component.
You're so right that like if it fits our lifestyle, if we like drinking, whether it be the social aspect or the feeling, whatever, we're not gonna look up stuff to tell us to stop.
Right.
Like we're gonna look to validate that feeling.
Yeah.
So.
I mean, yeah, totally.
Another thing that came to mind was like our Got Milk episode where the government pushed milk on us for like 30 years and told us it was the only way to ingest calcium.
But it turns out like two tablespoons of basil is the same amount of calcium.
So it's like the governing agencies have no, they're so self-interested.
They have their self-interest in mind.
They are not looking out for you.
But I think you bring up a good point.
It's like alcohol fits our lifestyle and it makes us feel good about ourselves.
Why would we try to go seek out a reason to not drink it?
The only reason you're going to not drink it is someone, a big campaign like, you know, the truth campaign for tobacco.
Yep.
I also, you brought up an interesting point and I don't think to just tackle on this, I don't think it's the self-interest of the government to give us the best information.
Because they make alcohol tax.
Like there's alcohol tax on like almost every state.
Like the government's racking in money on every alcohol sale.
So like why would they disrupt that massive revenue stream just for the health of their citizens?
They got to pay for, you know, Air Force One and shit.
So I think nobody is interested or wants to really explore this deeper.
Right.
They're content in ignorance.
Being fine.
Yeah.
Just like me.
So women's history in marketing and alcohol specifically.
So traditionally women were represented in alcohol marketing to a lesser extent.
And then we reviewed this in one of our older episodes where women were kind of the subject of a lot of these campaigns and used almost as a prop versus like kind of an empowerment figure.
They were seen as submissive and domestic and serving the needs of others, sexual objects in attempt to gain a greater share of the male market.
So that was kind of old, old marketing.
And that was traditionally how women were seen in alcohol marketing as well.
And then additionally, like historically women who drank have been stigmatized.
So back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, women who drank were lacking femininity.
Like they didn't, they were not poised.
They were seen as sexually promiscuous, out of control and neglectful of traditional roles and virtues.
So kind of getting out of that era, where are we now?
Alcohol companies are using empowerment as a form of market segmentation.
You mean companies are capitalizing on a political movement?
No, I don't.
It never happened.
I don't believe that.
It never happened.
I don't believe that.
I'm just just a quick tangent and I won't put the restaurant on Blaster, but there's a restaurant near me that they have a hand painted sign out front of their logo.
And all of June, it was Pride flag themed.
And I'm telling you, Caitlin, the first of July came and they painted over that thing.
It was like hand painted.
I was like, man, like that is, that's rough, dude.
We're, we are so conscious of this as we'd like to take, we'd like to think of ourselves as taking the mortal high ground a lot of times when it comes to this.
We're very aware of it.
We're very conscious.
And we cover this, we talk about it all the time, rainbow painting, meaning people just like exactly like you said they slap a rainbow on it and say, yep, we're an ally.
But what are you actually doing to be an ally?
Same with breast cancer awareness.
Yeah, we'll slap a pink.
So they call it pink washing.
There's rainbow washing and there's green washing trying to be sustainable.
But in actuality, you're paying your garment workers 50 cents.
Yep.
So yes, shocking.
Alcohol companies are capitalizing on a feminism movement.
So how do women specifically view alcohol and like what is their take on it?
So women, there's been studies done where women view alcohol as a pleasurable and important aspect of their social lives.
And they place value upon sharing and drinking, sharing drinking stories and even hangover stories.
So it's not even simply the consumption of alcohol itself.
It's kind of the whole package deal.
Everything that comes with consumption, it means you're seen in a bar, you get to dress up, you get to talk to your friends.
Like it's the whole package deal.
It's the experience.
It's the experience that women are viewing as pleasurable.
And um, go ahead.
Like I will just say the one thing that I saw is, I mean, that to me was like telling the drinking stories and hangover stories.
I think that's universal.
Universal.
Like I think everybody kind of chases that.
You want to like, we love to make people laugh.
And if it's a drunken story where you did something stupid, it's going to get a laugh.
You know, so I think people seek it out to some degree.
They want to do crazy, stupid stuff.
Right.
And they want to have stories to tell about it.
So in your in your twenties, like that was every single story revolved around some sort of drinking antique.
Yep.
My dad always said, don't be the one.
Don't be the person at the party with the lampshade on your head.
Yeah, I was I was that person every now and then, but I love attention.
Like I was more like giving me all the attention.
Everybody like it was less about me being hammered.
But doing stupid stuff.
Nonetheless.
Yes.
A lot of times to alcohol represents popularity for women.
And they use alcohol as kind of a justification for stepping out of a traditional feminine role.
So they're allowed to get a little bit rowdy, you know, at games, they're allowed to cuss.
They're allowed their kind of give them like a hall pass to not be as put together.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Um, Carol Ensley, a professor of substance use and misuse at the School of Health and
Life Science at Glasgow University.
Who put that on a business card?
Oh, okay.
Shows how alcohol companies harness the fact that women want to retain their identities
as they go through various life changes through the use of alcohol.
So what do you mean by what do you interpret that as that they want to tap
into your younger free-spiriting self?
Is that what it is?
Yes.
That's why the...
A little bit.
So yeah.
So, um, Carol and her colleagues talked to these women in their thirties and forties,
and they found out that many of these women viewed drinking as a way to show their identity
beyond their responsibility in the household or beyond their career.
They're, they're being a woman in midlife.
So that is kind of how they retain their identity is by partaking in
alcohol and being able to consume and the kind of like lifestyle around consumption.
It's like, uh, it's like just staying attached to your sense of self.
Yeah.
While you'd be, yeah, very interesting.
For a second?
I think that rings very true.
I agree.
You're allowed to leave the husband, leave the kids, leave the work life behind.
You know, it's like, it's unisex in the city comes to mind where it's like four groups of
girlfriends, they're always talking to each other at a bar.
And that is how they release themselves and have that identity.
So, um,
And I also think, I mean, even like beyond that, they're the old trope of like the wine is mommy's time.
Right? Like it's like even like, even having those moments where it's like, this is my time.
Yes.
I'm going to pour a glass of wine.
I'm going to sit like it is, it is reclaiming that self a little bit.
And it's, yeah, that's fascinating.
I, I didn't, I barely touched the surface on mommy's
wine time.
I think that alone deserves its own podcast because it's an insane, but not phenomenon,
but like the culture around that is so toxic in itself.
It's allowing women, it's giving them a hall pass to binge drink.
Yup.
You know, um, so I barely touched the surface on that, but we will, we will, we will get to that.
Quoting from M Slee or we'll just call her Carol because I can't pronounce her last name.
She said in, uh, in this study quote, women felt that they were transformed back to a carefree
youth away from their responsibilities.
Exactly what you were saying.
So does it not translate to men?
Do you know if they did the similar study with men?
Does that not translate?
If I were to put myself in a man's shoes.
Oh, okay.
Boots on the, my how the turntables have turned.
Okay.
Let's see.
Analogy is not your strong point when you're high on daycloth.
It's my flu game, Caitlin.
My flu game.
Um, I think that men, um, are, have the grounds to act like themselves in every single role.
They never have to be poised.
They never have to act a certain way.
It's always like they just show up and they are who they are, but a woman has to act a
different way in the workplace, has to act a different way at home and then gets to act
a different way when they're with their girlfriends.
That is my opinion.
I don't know if that's true.
Maybe men do have to play these roles, but they don't think that they do as severely as
women do.
Yeah.
I think to a much lesser degree than women.
Much lesser degree than women.
You know, there's, there's professional Zach and then hang out Zach.
Like I, I, you know, I know the draw the line, but it's not expected of me.
Right.
I think, I think it's just the courteous thing to do.
So I think to a much far, far, far lesser degree men have to do that.
Women, it is, I can absolutely see what you're saying.
Well, I like that you brought that up because that was my next question to you actually just
kind of in summary, recapping what we just discussed.
It's women tend to construct an identity and display their authentic self through consumption.
Do you find that's true with your own drinking practice?
Do you feel like your identity is somehow tied to consumption?
That's a great question.
I think to maybe some degree it is, it is like, I've been in advertising for a long time.
We've worked in agencies, drinking culture and advertising agencies is something that's
swept under the rug pretty significantly.
You know, so I do think like being in, in marketing and advertising, it's, you know,
like client meetings involve a drink usually.
So I do think there is an element of that to me.
Can I get you going on this for a second?
Yeah, yeah.
Because I, we touched on this earlier.
I quit drinking five years ago and I joke like my drinking privileges were revoked.
I'm just not someone who can drink.
And something that I really had to figure out in the first couple of years is literally
how to be an adult without alcohol.
And my whole adulthood was tied to alcohol.
That's what you did at sporting events.
That's what you did with your friends.
That's a way to relax, but it's also a way to feel empowered.
It's a way to get lit at the club.
It's the way to do everything, to manipulate your emotions and how you're feeling.
And you have to figure out how to relearn that.
You have to relearn how to be an adult without the use of alcohol.
So I think in a way, our identity is so truly tied to consumption because that is the gateway
to everything.
I agree.
I completely agree.
You know, having a drink after work with a friend or something like that, you don't
just go like hang out in the friend's apartment.
Just go meet at a bar, right?
Like you're so ready.
I think everything is tied around drinking and consumption of alcohol.
And I commend you that it must have been a long road.
It had to have been a long road.
I mean, the first couple of years are painful because you are not only giving up the substance,
but you are trying to figure out like, okay, who am I without a party or without a scene,
without the use of alcohol as a crutch?
And I don't feel like...
How to not get yourself.
How to find yourself again.
I mean, if your market research is true, right?
That was tied to your sense of self and your sense of independence.
How do you think, if you don't mind me asking, how do you think you've come?
Do you feel a lot better?
Or is it still difficult?
No, not at all.
I bet three years ago, there was just a switch flip and you're like, I never need alcohol
ever again.
Like I just don't need it.
So you do learn how to be a person again.
But you have to also put yourself in all of these circumstances in order to figure it
out.
You have to go to a sporting event.
You have to go to a concert.
You have to go to a bar.
You have to go to all of these things to figure out like, how do I interact?
What are these things to me without alcohol?
And that I think is not a question that everybody gets to ask themselves or that allows themselves
to explore, I guess.
What is a concert to me without the use of alcohol?
Because back in the day, a concert was just a vehicle to get liquor into my mouth.
Just watch the music, get some liquor.
Like that's what it is.
Yep, I'm with you.
So have you, like, and we're going down a little tangent, but have you found any events
that you liked and enjoyed prior but figured out it was just for the drinking?
Is there any events that you've kind of relearned to love again even despite the drinking?
I think there's two.
Well, just because I brought them up, it's like sporting events.
I never need to go to another sporting event ever in my life.
Like I'm done with it.
You know, like I tried because it was a way to drink beer.
I don't need a bandwagon anymore teams.
But then like music, like I can go to a bar, I can go to a club, I can go dancing, I can
go like pool parties are still my favorite thing in the entire world.
And it's like, so there's the music, the music element is truly where like, I know I love
it because I that's what it means to me without alcohol.
I love it.
Yeah.
And then so rounding our conversation back, do you feel like what do you think has helped
you find yourself sense of self again?
If you're we're saying that women use alcohol to find their sense of self, have you feel
like if you do feel like you feel that void or are you still kind of searching for it?
I think you figure out.
So one thing is like alcohol is a way to feel relaxed.
Alcohol is a way to decompress for your premier day.
Alcohol is a way to get lit at the club.
Alcohol is a way to do all of these things.
And then you figure out, okay, how do I actually relax?
And you figure out, okay, this is a hard concept to actually talk about.
So thanks for putting me on the spot.
But yeah, and feel free to take a pause and I can cut all this out.
And I'm just, I think it's in the case we have lots of listeners in the case someone's
going through a similar, especially women, going through a similar kind of idea that
maybe they should give it up.
I love that.
Like I think just a little bit of helpful insight is worthwhile.
Right.
You have to figure out why you are using a substance in the first place.
Why am I relying on alcohol to relax?
It's because I have all of these anxieties and all of these stressors around work.
Okay, how do we fix those?
So alcohol is just a bandaid and the real problem is work or the real problem is trauma
from your childhood or the real problem is trauma from a relationship.
And you have to fix those things in order to be okay, in order to relax from the day.
So I think alcohol is just a bandaid.
And I think what your original question was just like, are you still sneaking out?
What that having difficulty?
I guess if so many women use it as a crutch to identify their self through, are you finding
difficulty finding a new avenue?
Or finding yourself, finding yourself, just kind of like finding knowing that you're an
independent person, right?
I mean, you own a business, so I think that helps, right?
That helps kind of like self identifying.
You know, I couldn't do it without exploring what alcohol did to me though.
I had to figure out like what I was numbing from and what I was self-medicating.
Why I was self-medicating in order to push past that and become your true self.
I know that sounds like so cliche and so cheesy, but like the alcohol to people who abuse alcohol,
it's a form of numbing and it's a form of self-medication.
And so you just need to dig through that trauma and they call it like dusting out the cobwebs.
You need to get down and dirty.
You need to make your amends.
You need to like go through some shit for the first year in order to like get out on
the other side of it and be like, okay, I'm actually not that shitty of a person, it turns
out, and I don't need to numb with alcohol.
So yeah, love it.
So just I think address your fears, address your trauma, head on, figure out why you are
drinking, have time to sit with it.
And if you are sober, curious, DM me.
Yeah, by all means.
DM us.
I love it, Katelyn.
I do appreciate the little tangent to just, it's a serious issue.
I think you let it off with a lot of health problems coming our way and a lot of binge
drinking.
So it is, it is something to take serious and I know you've been through it.
So I appreciate you sharing.
Yeah, I like that you kind of took us down that road.
I wasn't really expecting it, but I do, I really appreciate that.
And I think it is important if people are listening to this, the power of alcohol, like
what it, the hold that it can have over you without ever realizing that it does have that
over you.
Yeah.
And to just explore that a little more.
So back to marketing.
Oh.
Um, so to recap, we've seen a move away from sexualizing women to sell alcohol to men towards
alcohol brands trying to align their products with this feminism movement.
Women's empowerment, female friendships, sophistication.
Some people say it's straight out of the tobacco industry playbook with slogans such as you've
come a long way baby in the sixties, the famous Virginia slim cigarette campaign attempted
to cash in on the women's live movement of the time trying to attract female consumers
who identified with the movement.
So by and large, alcohol is just doing what tobacco has already done.
And if it works, if it works.
Uh, so question to you, if you were an alcohol company and you already know your market and
you know feminism is popping off and you're trying to make it more female friendly Zach,
what would you do?
I would create a seltzer and name it white claw.
And then I would just, yeah, like I would just create a low carb, low energy fitness
first still get fucked.
That's my tagline.
I just came up with that.
This is what happens when I just get the filters gone.
You know, it just some of them are Jebs.
Many of them aren't though.
Yeah, I think exactly what all of these beer companies are doing, right?
They got Corona seltzer, both light seltzer, PBR seltzer, white claws, truly high noons,
like they're everywhere, right?
Like they're everywhere, all women centric.
It's so obvious.
And a couple of examples is exactly you.
You put out fruit flavored beers, low calorie beverages.
We see a focus on slimness, weight, pink packaging, glitter, messages of sisterhood, all female
friendship, motherhood, and also the all time favorite sexiness.
Bodies of empowerment have increased as well as of the celebration of women.
For example, in association with the International Women's Day, Valentine's Day, and even Mother's
Day.
Last year, International Women's Day was the excuse for a liquor store in Washington State.
Shout out to Washington.
Shout out Washington.
To sell 1,000 bottles of wine to women for a penny apiece.
You just got a lot.
Did they have a cap?
You just had my jaw on the floor because that, like me, like five years ago, me, it would
have gone in and bought like a dollar worth of wine and I would have walked out with what
is that, a hundred dollars?
A hundred bottles.
A hundred bottles of wine.
Another example is Bacardi used the holiday to promote a new reduced alcohol line of vodka
flavored with peach, lemon, and cucumber that was billed as the perfect for a spa day spritz.
Wow.
You know what, if this whole advertising business doesn't work out, that was a great voiceover.
Thank you.
I think you found your niche.
Like sarcastic.
I hope so.
Yeah, like women's centric taglines.
I am available because voiceover artists make quite a bit of money.
So I'm available.
They do.
Bacardi.
Yeah, call me up.
Yeah.
Wow.
In 2018 study conducted, sorry, a 2018 study conducted in New York City found women and
butchered this.
Let me start over.
In 2018, a study was conducted in New York that found women are willing to pay up to
13 percent more for the same goods as men if they are rebranded to target women specifically.
13 percent of women will pay more for something that is rebranded to fit a female.
Do you feel like that fits you?
Like I kind of do.
I hate it.
I hate it because you see like people just slapping pink on something and marketing it
towards women.
But I'm like, kind of works on me.
I hate to admit it.
I know.
I've like I've seen I've seen your decorations in your office.
Like I think I think there's a lot of like maybe you're in that too.
Okay, fair enough.
I don't buy just any pencil holder.
I buy pencil holders catered towards females.
Okay.
If they got glitter, it's gone, no, it's not you.
But yeah, I could definitely see that.
I could definitely see that.
And then of course, just I told you I'd breach the surface of this, but like feminized marketing
popularized concepts like mummy juice and wine o'clock and linking them to how busy women
navigated anxiety.
And then lastly, like women are and actually this is kind of this is where I want to end
it on this discussion point.
Me and my husband were talking about this last night and I told him that I was covering
alcohol today.
And he was saying, well, do you think women are drinking more than men just because marketing?
And I said, no, absolutely not.
But I think I and this is open for discussion.
So I want to hear your input on that.
I think women have a lot more responsibilities and have to cater to these roles like we were
talking about women have to show up as one person in the home, show up as another person
in the office and show up to someone as something else to their friends.
And so with that increased responsibility comes increased stress and anxiety.
And this is a way that they have self-medicated.
As I was talking about that was like my crutch was this is what I used to self-medicate and
numb from the everyday stressors, because I think the differences men have been taking
on these roles of work, life, you know, boy time, since the day.
More work, less life.
Yeah, like it's like, yeah, we can pick and choose how much we want to put in each one.
And women can't really pick and choose there.
You have to be all in on all of them.
Right.
Totally.
And because this is, you know, careers and all that kind of stuff is like technically
a male's role and it hasn't, it didn't change up until the 80s really.
Men are used to coping in different ways or they've learned from those experiences.
Whereas women are like, okay, now I need to show up more than a man because I need to
show my worth.
I need to prove myself in this environment.
And so we're putting more energy into it.
That's my assumption.
I think that's a ground to something.
I don't think it's marketing that is causing women to drink more.
I think it's everyday stressors that cause women to drink and then marketing capitalizes
on those stressors.
Definitely.
It enhances it.
I agree with you and then I think I'm going to add in another point on top of that is
I think, you know, both of us don't like making generalizations, but like this is what marketing
is, right?
Demographics, things like that.
And I do think women on the whole are more social, like your evolutionary is more, your
evolution is more social based, right?
Like naturally women gravitate to more social connections than men, right?
And I think a big part of drinking as your research said was it's a social thing, right?
Like it's a way to connect with friends.
It's a way to go.
And then so the fact that women are more inclined to after a long day of work, go out and visit
some girlfriends or like, like I won't do that shit.
I'm like, if it do that, like one of my friends asked me out.
I'm like, yo, how are we like, it's gotta be.
Yep.
It's gotta be like weekend, Sunday.
Yeah.
I'll see you.
Right.
Like I, and it's like, I'll have friends.
I don't talk to you for months.
And then I'll just be like, yo, I'm in town.
All right, cool.
Let's do something.
You know, I just think women have naturally more of a social minded mindset.
Wow.
I ran out of steam there, but you see where I'm going.
No, I think I, I agree with you.
We are more social creatures in general.
So yeah, I think to end it is, you know, marketing is capitalizing on this idea of ending your
day with a reward and that reward is alcohol.
And they're marketing it as mommy juice or me time or, you know, whatever it is, there's
a whole culture that I want to dive into and maybe a different podcast on like this wine
culture.
I mean, wine culture is insane.
Wine clubs are on the rise.
Wine clubs like are boom right now.
And just using wine as an acceptable way to end your day because you had a hard day.
Like, yep, I agree.
And I just, I'm looking forward to the moment that all of us look at alcohol the same way
we look at tobacco now.
I'm looking forward to the day being like, Oh my God, can you believe that we all just
drink all the time?
Yeah.
24 hours a day.
I think it's going to be similar to those 1950s videos where you see is like everyone
has a cigarette and you're like, what?
Yeah.
So fringy.
I do think it's trending that way.
Probably not in my lifetime.
Give me something Jack Daniels.
I knew you were mixing that tea.
I knew there was some Daniels in my tea.
I have not.
I'm legitimately sick.
It is straight green tea.
I would come clean at this point if I was like, all right, Katelyn, I've been high then.
No, it is straight, date, will and green tea.
So I want to end on two fun stats.
71% of white women became heavy drinkers.
At some point in their lives.
Wow.
47% of black women, 40% of Hispanic women and 37% of Asian women.
Wow.
Women who-
White girl crazies.
Her name.
White girl.
White girl wasted.
Women who consume large amounts of alcohol are at an increased risk of breast cancer.
A woman has, this was like these facts, well, let me just read them.
A woman has a nine in 100 lifetime risk of getting breast cancer if she doesn't drink.
A woman who consumes two drinks per day has a 10 in 100 risk of developing breast cancer.
So an extra percentage point.
An extra percentage point, which I don't want to negate that, but I was also like, I was
kind of expecting this stat to be more powerful than it was.
Well, I mean, when you combine it, like there's 300 million women in America, 1% is what, 30,000?
Like that's nothing to shake a fist at, right?
Like that's a significant amount of people.
But also fun fact, I read a story of a liquor company in the UK who did some sort of, you
know, some sort of breast cancer awareness month.
And they call it pink washing.
So they pink washed all of their labels and all of their bands, which is just like the
most ironic thing in the entire world since alcohol is a direct contributor to cancer.
It's like, you might as well, like it would be the most, it would be as ridiculous as
it tobacco did that.
Like, yeah.
Tobacco is like sponsoring a 5k.
Like one of those.
Yeah.
Malboro 5k, you know, like, no, thank you.
Lucky strike.
We have some ideas.
Yeah.
Just think about it.
Get involved in the community.
And then a woman who consumes six or more drinks a day has a 13 and 100 risk of breast
cancer.
Yeah.
That's where the spike really comes up.
I also pulled some fun brands that have marketed their product to women specifically.
And I will share them on our Facebook group.
Oh, okay.
I'll look at the Facebook page.
Look at the Facebook page and I will send them your way, but I'll just rattle them off
really fast.
So there's things like on Amazon, I found a tampon box that you smuggle liquor in the
tampon.
And then a choice to that is a choice.
That is a choice.
And then a bracelet of diamonds or like faux diamonds.
You smuggle liquor in the bracelet.
I've seen that one.
You have.
And then there's a beer called chick beer, like literally just called chick beer and
it's painted pink and it has like the girl boss writing even worse than girl boss writing.
Oh, God.
And then obviously they came down on Rose all day, which is oh, yes, way rose is an
entire brand of rose.
Yes, way rose.
And then the last one I pulled, which was a fun one.
Duh.
Anything that rhymes gets women so well.
Yes, way.
Well, I meant for me and you'll have my money.
I meant for me.
I feel like that's all I have for you.
Anyways, that's fun.
It's for I look, I think this is great.
I think it's very interesting and I hope it does help us to pause and like analyze how
many liquor ads and beer ads, alcohol ads that we see on a daily basis.
I think that and I think my intention with this is just to bring awareness to like how
toxic alcohol really is.
I'm not thinking I'm going to change the landscape of drinking by any means whatsoever.
Not going to change mine, but the information helps me.
The information is better to know.
It is.
It's better to know.
At least you can go out and be like, I knew I was going to get cancer, so it's really
not that bad.
Like this doesn't come to this week.
Yeah.
I have my next bar conversation with people.
I think, you know, just settle up at a bar and just kind of start hitting them with these
facts.
I'm going to make so many friends.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's the way to go.
That's the way to make friends.
I hear.
But yeah, and just the overarching note, like how liquor companies are kind of hiding this
information from us.
Obviously, it's taken a playbook out of tobacco, really.
Yep.
So that's all I have for you.
So make sure to visit the Facebook group, Manipulate in the Masses podcast, and where
you can find all of these different advertisements I'm going to share.
And that's it for me.