1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,920 Yeah, even thinking about this made me a little nostalgic. So all right, let's do it 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,360 Hi, I'm Zach and I'll meet you by the orange Julius 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,480 You motherfucker 4 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:26,640 Why was orange Julius like the one commonality between our intros okay, well, I'm gonna go my name is Caitlin and 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:32,060 Today we're gonna go pick up an orange Julius get our ears pierced at Claire's 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,120 And get some glamour shots 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:46,380 Don't give yourselves to brutes men who despise you enslave you who regiment your lives 8 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:52,760 Tell you what to do what to think of what to feel who drill you diet you treat you like cattle use you as cannon fodder 9 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Don't give yourselves to these unnext-row men machine men with machine minds and machine hearts 10 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:04,000 You are not machines. You are not cattle you the people have the power. I 11 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:12,400 Forgot about the glamour shots part of a mall like you're right like there is there is always some kind of glamour shot 12 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,480 Section I know did you ever did you ever go into that? 13 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:24,280 Do I seem like a person that would go into that store? No, I but I see oh, you know, do you think I went into that store? 14 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:25,720 I 15 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:31,600 Think maybe as a young teenager. Am I right? I think you're being really nice 16 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,160 Absolutely, I got my picture taken any any chance I get 17 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:44,560 Absolutely, I went in there and I even Zach I tried so hard to dig up. Well, I didn't try hard 18 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:50,280 I was like damn if I had more time, I would dig up some of those photos. Oh my god, that'd be amazing 19 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:57,080 We all spend some time on Sunday. So by the time this podcast comes out. We'll post it on our Facebook group 20 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,240 I love it and I want to see them and I will hold it over 21 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,760 Like I'm gonna put those pictures as like all your reference for me like if you text me that picture 22 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,560 Like I'm 23 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,720 Integrating those glimmer shots in the every part of our conversations 24 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:18,760 I just have the best idea. We should do glamour shots for our company profile pictures 25 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:26,040 I love it. Okay. I'm into it. It's always the weird like it's always like awkward poses though 26 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:31,680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, have you hold like awkward poses? Yeah. Yeah. Well the backdrops are the best 27 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,440 I had a friend or I have a friend and 28 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,360 Well, she's actually one of our designers that works for us kind of 29 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,360 Sporadically contractually 30 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:50,120 And there's like a store in LA that's all the rave that does glamour shots 31 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:56,680 And it's just one of those things that is like that vintage aesthetic that people are just like gravitating towards again 32 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:03,360 So this place is just booming with business and she got her headshots taken there and they're fucking amazing. They're 33 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:05,920 I would love that 34 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,400 With her permission, maybe I'll post those on our group 35 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:15,560 Yeah, bring it back because I've seen like it like in Toronto one of my favorite cities like that 36 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,840 I was walking down the street and they had like a selfie store 37 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:26,120 Whereas like all these different backdrops and you could like go in and pay 20 bucks and it's like like they'll like take your pictures 38 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:30,800 And like you'll get it. It's it's a market. I guess it's a business, you know 39 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,560 2020s of glamour shots 40 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,560 2.0 41 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:44,400 Well, if you haven't guessed already we are gonna be talking about the rise and the fall of the American malls 42 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,880 Fascinating Zack did you have a mall job? 43 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,520 No, I actually didn't have but I applied to a lot of you are cool enough 44 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:01,680 I was not cool enough and I was I applied so many times 45 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:07,960 I thought it'd be so cool to work in a mall. Can we pause here and tell our listeners what your first job actually was? 46 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,520 Oh, yeah, so my first job was working in a farm 47 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,860 I was like detastling corn. I'd sit in a tractor all day 48 00:04:16,860 --> 00:04:19,800 They take us up and down the cornfield and I tell you all the time 49 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:25,840 Like I had to like pull the little like like the little furry thing at the top of the corn and just throw it on the ground 50 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:32,280 Like to this day, I still have no idea like zero idea why I was doing that 51 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:38,240 But it was all day thing going up and down up and down and my favorite part of the story was 52 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,640 All the bosses were like on a prison work release program. So it was like all these inmates 53 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:49,840 I was like 14 is like these inmates were my bosses. You're like, let's get your ass out there 54 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:52,960 Like and I'm like, okay, I guess I'm not messing with these guys 55 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,960 I just love the era that we grew up when your parents were like, this is a great life experience for 56 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:06,560 You should go work for prison inmates and do something that you're not really quite sure of why you're doing it 57 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,680 Like this is a great life experience. Yes. Yes. I completely agree 58 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,920 And like there was one day where they were like Zach 59 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,240 there's a special assignment for you today and like they took me into this barn and there was like a 60 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:25,640 10-foot pile of goat manure just sitting in the barn and then I had to like take a pitchfork and like move it to the other 61 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,400 side of the barn and 62 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,480 This day, I still don't know why I was doing that 63 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:37,800 I was like, why am I just moving this pile of shit 20 feet and that's when I knew I was like, I'm a city person 64 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,000 I'm never gonna make it as a farmer. I don't get it 65 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:46,400 But if any listeners know why you move shit 10 feet from one side to the other 66 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,880 I'm still curious to this day. Google hasn't been able to solve my questions 67 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,960 God yeah, that has to be my favorite story about you 68 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:02,960 It has nothing to do with this podcast, but I did feel like it was necessary. I don't know why but did you work at a mall? 69 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,800 Did you work? No, I grew up in a mountain town 70 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,800 So the mall was an hour away 71 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:14,920 But I will say that when I was 14 15 years old and I got that paycheck from my job 72 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,200 You bet your ass I went straight to the mall and I have my driver's license 73 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:25,560 I was driving my car and I would go by myself like this was something I 74 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,040 Love to do. Yeah, honestly as I got a little older 75 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:36,400 Like there is like cuz I still pop into a mall every now and then right like I'll just go 76 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:43,320 I'll go like walk around but going by yourself. It's like a nice mental space. You know, I get a coffee like walk around 77 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:50,080 Not the same allure that it was but not a bad space. Yeah. Yeah, definitely 78 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:57,120 You don't have to wait for anybody, you know, you're not interested in a story. You can just go to the next one. Yeah, so 79 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,920 I'm gonna tell us a story 80 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:08,520 So there's not you feel free to interject to ask questions because this piece of the podcast is just gonna be story time 81 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,240 Oh, it's Friday morning. I'm ready for story time 82 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,800 Relax. I got my coffee. We're ready 83 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,220 So this I'm like wiping tears because I was laughing so hard at the shit 84 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,420 This story comes from business insider 85 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,800 Video of kind of the story and the concept of a mall 86 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,840 So the story of the mall begins in the 1950s 87 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:40,320 America was experiencing an unprecedented economic boom the economy overall grew by 37% 88 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:45,200 I kind of stopped here and I was like why what was do you know why I kind of post 89 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,320 World War two ish kind of like it settled in and I think all the the baby boomers. I think people were 90 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:58,320 Having babies everywhere. Right? It was like it was post World War two and that was it was kind of 91 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:09,640 Sad because it's like while the rest of the world is in just total fucking destruction like America is over here booming. Yeah 92 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:17,840 So I was like what what happened in the 1950s and people accredited it to Eisenhower's 93 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,160 combination of low taxes balanced budget and public spending 94 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:29,320 The middle class had more money to spend than ever before we knew this the 1950s was really when we saw this middle class 95 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,680 Strengthen and they were spending it on houses and cars 96 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:39,080 Along with this the economic boom Eisenhower's federal aid highway act 97 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:47,040 meant that people could drive to their jobs in the cities while living in a new kind of development 98 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,520 We know what this is a suburb. Yeah 99 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,760 The burbs, baby a boom of the burbs 100 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:03,800 That's what the podcast is named the boom. I like that the boom of the burbs. I like that suburban populations rose 101 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:10,640 Astronomically, but they lacked what sociologist Ray Oldenburg called the third place 102 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:15,360 Under this model home is known as the first place where you live 103 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:21,960 The second place is the workplace and the third place is this vital space where you can go to exchange ideas 104 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:28,680 Form relationships and create communities. So that third place for social interactions 105 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:37,760 Fascinating enter Victor Gruen a man who would later become the quote king of retail 106 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,480 He had already made a name for himself designing boutiques 107 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:47,520 But now he set out to design an indoor downtown. Oh 108 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:50,440 Wow 109 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:54,560 That's a very interesting concept. Okay. I love this 110 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,160 I'd know Victor Gruen 111 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:00,160 hated 112 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:07,640 Literally despised what the mall turned into even though he was the inventor of a mall and he quote 113 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,800 called it a 114 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,800 land virus. Oh 115 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:20,120 I like that too man Victor's got away with words. All right. We love Victor. He was also a staunch socialist 116 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,480 So which is kind of a little bit ironic 117 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:30,200 Yeah, I like him so we do love Victor. Um, so it on October 8th, 1956 118 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,160 America's first indoor mall opened in 119 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,160 Minnesota, oh 120 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:47,840 Interesting is it interesting? Yeah, I'll pause. I'll let you tell the story. But like yeah, okay. That's interesting 121 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,480 It's called Southdale Center Southdale Center 122 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:56,160 So it not only had shops, but it had fountains and our 123 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,160 Installations it had a bird sanctuary a 124 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:09,720 Courtyard and all of this within a single indoor complex so you can see his original vision and how the mall kind of 125 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,960 you know 126 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:18,640 Transformed from that original vision and why he now calls it a land virus. Yeah 127 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,160 The bird sanctuary part 128 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,440 It truly is it sounds like an oasis like 129 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,920 Go in and just relax 130 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,920 Yeah 131 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:38,400 The mall received mostly rave reviews deeming it an attraction on par with Disneyland 132 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,120 Which opened up just a year earlier in 1955 133 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:51,840 Walt Disney himself even cited Gruen as his main influence behind the ideas behind Epcot Center. Oh 134 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:54,560 Wow 135 00:11:54,560 --> 00:12:00,800 The story is already fascinating. Yeah, I can see it. Have you been to Epcot before I have but it's a bit 136 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,160 I I don't know why Epcot 137 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,960 Epcot it's less like rides and Disney 138 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:14,480 Kind of themed things. It's like Epcot has like the world it has like shops and restaurants 139 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:20,160 Countries, okay, it is kind of modeled in that but every section has a different country 140 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,160 So there are rides there, but it's really not like Disney 141 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,320 Focused, okay? I think it makes sense. Okay 142 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:34,840 Yeah, I had been to Disney World, but it's been I mean 20 years maybe. Oh, you're not a Disney girl, huh? 143 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,360 No, I am not 144 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,360 And that's maybe that's maybe a story for another time, but that had everything to do with my upper 145 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,900 Okay, it's not a story for another story for now. Yeah, you can't just preface that 146 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:54,340 It had everything to do with my upbringing. My dad hated labels. He hated labels 147 00:12:54,340 --> 00:13:00,140 Oh, I was not allowed to wear anything with like Mickey Mouse or Minnie on it like 148 00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:03,620 Yeah, bizarre 149 00:13:03,620 --> 00:13:08,940 And then why I have no idea. In fact, I'm gonna call him up and ask him after that 150 00:13:09,580 --> 00:13:15,620 Like it's just so weird and my dad is not like super strict about things by any means 151 00:13:15,620 --> 00:13:21,540 But for whatever reason when I was younger like he had rules against wearing Disney clothing 152 00:13:22,860 --> 00:13:26,260 And then I just feel like yes, I've had my fair share of Disneyland 153 00:13:26,260 --> 00:13:31,740 I've been to Disneyland a couple times and I just do not enjoy it like too many people and 154 00:13:32,060 --> 00:13:38,740 They're just like unhealthy looking people. I'm sorry, but it just like I don't want to stand in line 155 00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:41,100 It's just not how I want to spend my day 156 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:46,980 Nope, it's it's kind of the worst kind of people like it is it's it's not a lot of fun 157 00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:54,500 It's not fun. It takes the over crowdedness takes the magic out of it. You're just like 100% 158 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:58,720 This is not my ideal of a fantasy. Nope. Nope 159 00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:07,700 Okay, yeah, I just distracted you from your story. I knew I was gonna do that already 160 00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:13,780 No, I was gonna say it is weird because my mom is a Disney fanatic like she loves me 161 00:14:13,780 --> 00:14:20,780 I know it is bizarre. So her and my brother actually used to go every single year. Well, me and my dad were like 162 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:23,220 deuces 163 00:14:24,380 --> 00:14:27,260 Really, I know I know she loves Disney 164 00:14:27,820 --> 00:14:32,660 And yeah, so it's it's an interesting dynamic and I yeah 165 00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:37,500 Just I'm looking at your face. Are you having like some family like revelations now? 166 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:45,700 Like this podcast is like part therapy. You're like whoa, maybe was there like some back room debate about Disney clothes with your mom and dad like 167 00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,940 They close the door, you know 168 00:14:50,220 --> 00:14:56,620 Kate would wear Disney I pick my battles and the Disney clothing is not one I choose to go down 169 00:14:56,820 --> 00:14:58,820 So, you know 170 00:14:58,820 --> 00:15:06,060 This is not as an unpacked Caitlyn's childhood trauma podcast. It's going to serve as a we're moving on 171 00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:11,020 It's a little piece of Caitlyn's history 172 00:15:14,820 --> 00:15:16,820 So 173 00:15:16,980 --> 00:15:23,600 By 1960 so this was just four years after Gruen's first mall opened there was 174 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:31,160 4500 large shopping complexes in the United States like wow moved fast Wow 175 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:41,920 By 19 oh go ahead. Sorry. I keep going by 1975 malls and shopping centers accounted for 33 percent of all retail sales in America 176 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:47,240 One third of all retail sales Wow, are they counting like strip? 177 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:52,600 I mean, I'm I don't know if you know, but are they counting like strip malls like those kind of like areas is it over? 178 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,600 Oh now we want to get into a 179 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,080 mall 180 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,060 All I'm saying suburbs are known for strip malls. I don't know if we classify them in there 181 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:08,400 I don't know if we go down so I don't talk about strip malls, but I do talk about mega malls 182 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,480 Maybe strip malls is a time 183 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,880 33% that's that's unbelievable and in comparison 184 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:23,560 This day and age e-commerce makes up for about 33 percent 185 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:31,320 But think about the internet and how much opportunity there is to purchase on the internet versus a mall 186 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,880 So the fact that the mall captured this type of audience in 187 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,160 In such a small space is pretty unbelievable 188 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:44,040 Unreal I absolutely I mean it must have been like so successful right people just saw dollar 189 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,720 And they just like started putting them up everywhere 190 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,760 Yeah, it's kind of like I love the comparison to e-commerce because it's kind of like e-commerce sites 191 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:57,440 You know like a you see Amazon making money and then all of these e-commerce sites are popping up everywhere 192 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,660 There's millions of them out there, right? 193 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,720 Amazon is the mall of the digital age. Yes, it is. Yes, it is 194 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,320 Gruin utopian vision for the mall had not been realized 195 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:16,640 Cheap food courts were installed where courtyards were supposed to be instead of this 196 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:23,000 cosmopolitan community developers often surrounded balls with enormous parking lots and 197 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,320 Suburban housing projects is that so true when you think of a mall 198 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:32,280 You're you think of a parking lot like those two things are absolutely synonymous. Yes, absolutely 199 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,440 And then my in my rebellious days, we would go to the you would go to the mall 200 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,160 I would go to like the mall parking lot and so we 201 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:46,520 Weed yep, it was literally it was literally so big like you could just park in the corner smoke weed and no one would bother you 202 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:49,040 Oh 203 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,040 By the night, okay, so the 1980s fast forward to the 1980s 204 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,240 This was the golden age of the mall 205 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:04,880 shopping complexes continue to build at a rate of over 1,000 per year and in 206 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,680 1986 consumer reports named the shopping mall 207 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,560 alongside the birth control pill 208 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:17,280 antibiotics and the personal computer one of the top 50 wonders that has 209 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:27,200 Revolutionized the lives of consumers isn't that so interesting like a shopping mall in comparison to a birth control pill or 210 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,680 antibiotics, let's even like 211 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,760 something that actually helps people survive and 212 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,880 The ball is compared to something like that 213 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:42,480 That's incredible. That's incredible. Gotta love consumerism. Yeah, love it. Bye 214 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,560 Capitalism, baby. Um, so the golden age, you know 80s teenagers 215 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:55,000 This is really where that centralized idea came into play. This was where they went to escape and 216 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:01,520 Socialize yeah, and I do want to take a pause. I mean a thousand per year. That's three malls a day 217 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,080 essentially like opening nationwide that's 218 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,800 crazy 219 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Day whoever owned construction companies was 220 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,560 Crashing in those years 221 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,360 Good time to be a construction owner. Yes. Yes, absolutely 222 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:30,680 The American mall would reach its peak in 1992 with its final evolution 223 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,720 the da da da the mega mall 224 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,720 mall of America 225 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:37,960 opened 226 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,960 with a whopping 227 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:45,040 5.6 million square feet and I say a million square feet and I can't even 228 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,120 Conceptualize how big that is I have never been to the mall of America 229 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:54,640 But I do not know what a million square feet is let alone 5.6 million 230 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,080 Nope, I can't I've never been either but that's why I thought 231 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:05,240 Victor opening Minnesota was interesting because like that is where Mall of America is, you know, like 232 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:12,320 When I first started down this podcast, I thought that that mall was going to be turns out the Mall of America 233 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,160 It's not it is two separate malls, but it is interesting that both of those concepts happened in Minnesota 234 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:24,680 Yeah, so the Mall of America opened with 500 stores a theme park with 27 rides an 235 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,320 Aquarium a wedding chapel 236 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,080 in a movie theater 237 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,360 How pissed would you be? 238 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:39,920 You if yeah, like if your husband was like, yo, let's get married at the Mall of America like who? 239 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,200 Who signs on for that? I wonder how 240 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:49,080 Yeah, except now in this day and age of like throwing it back and retro and vintage 241 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:55,760 Like it's probably a claim to fame to be like let's get married at this cool vintage spot the Mall of America 242 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,520 Like you know like that that can make up some good pictures 243 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:06,680 We could have the reception at the Orange Julius. It'll be great. It'll be great. Oh circle. Orange Julius makes a comeback 244 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:13,660 The mega mall was a mentally 245 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,720 Mentally profitable 246 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:24,040 Reports showed that consumers were 50% more likely to buy something at an attraction filled mega mall than at a regular mall 247 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:31,000 Leading to several more mega malls being built across the 50 states and I just like let's pause here 248 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,280 Don't you just love this? Isn't this like the most American thing you could possibly do? 249 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,880 Like we can't just have a good thing. We can't just let a good thing be a good thing 250 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:42,880 We have to make more 251 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:49,040 Money and make it bigger like that is the most just make things bigger. It's the American way 252 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,520 Yep, just keep going until it's too big and it crashes and like 253 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,440 American way that is the American way 254 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,680 We're such greedy capitalists 255 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:09,960 So I mean honestly that was the peak of it the mega mall was the peak in 256 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,200 1992 257 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:19,600 Wow, so because the size of the mega mall and this like unsustainable rate of construction 258 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,600 Would lead to the collapse of the mall 259 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,240 I mean if these investors if mall owners had you know 260 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,240 Got it their way 261 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:38,520 Though every single city would just be like a mall on every corner and like you guys know that that's not sustainable 262 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:45,000 Like what are you doing in in my town growing up? We had one mega mall woodland mall 263 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,240 In Grand Rapids across the street from another mega mall 264 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,600 There was two mega malls 265 00:22:52,600 --> 00:23:00,840 Literally across the street from each other like center point woodland like they were and it was like competing like that makes no sense to me 266 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:06,440 Like that's a big on big right like did you did you know the word mega mall? 267 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,840 I had never heard the word mega mall until the 268 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,440 No, I had not heard of it, but like they were mega malls like they had 269 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,960 Attractions they were huge they like they tried to they definitely fit the bill 270 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:23,560 I have never been to this quote-unquote mega mall. I do not know what a mega mall looks like or 271 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,720 Feels like so so was there in these two malls that you grew up next to yeah 272 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,960 They had what you said attraction 273 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,280 So did they have roller coasters or like what type of attraction? 274 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,320 No, not like theme park stuff 275 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:42,600 But like attractions in the sense of like, you know little kid rides and like fun things to do like I do think 276 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:47,040 It was I considered in my mind a mega mall as in like 277 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:54,040 There's a bunch of stores food court the works, but they also have like little things here and there not as big as Mall of America 278 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,680 Where it's like a theme park? 279 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,180 Yeah 280 00:23:56,180 --> 00:24:03,280 They had like little things to like go and they they wanted you to hang out there all day. That's what I'm considering a mega mall 281 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:09,720 It's not like you go in there's a couple shops. It's like these are large complexes with multiple things to do 282 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,120 Would I be wrong in that interpretation or I? 283 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,640 think um 284 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:21,880 I don't think you're wrong. Maybe what you're describing is how I would deem it like a 285 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,800 What's what's a step down from mega like uh? 286 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:28,920 ultra 287 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,120 Yeah, like a big size like a 288 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,800 like an SUV mall 289 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,220 Yeah, a mini-man 290 00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:38,220 not a Hummer mall 291 00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:40,220 Yeah, okay, okay 292 00:24:40,220 --> 00:24:42,220 My malls were like the 293 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,520 um, I 294 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:53,440 Don't know CRVs malls. No like a camp Corolla. I grew up with Corolla malls. You grew up with 295 00:24:54,720 --> 00:25:01,440 SUV malls SUV malls. Yeah the escalate malls. Yes. I'm with you. I like that. There's different tears 296 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,440 We have just established 297 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,720 Comparing them to cars, you know, I think that fits I think that fits 298 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,080 So I don't know so, you know the peak of it was in 1992 299 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:18,840 But then you you get to the 2000s and you do see this steady decline of the mall because 300 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:25,560 We can't let a good thing be and we just keep building and building and building so as a marketer 301 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:32,640 And you start to see this steady decline. How do you pivot to start to stay relevant? 302 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:39,320 That's a great question and you like prefaced me with this this morning to think about it and I do think 303 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,960 You know Mall of America kind of had it right and you mentioned it 304 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,560 I do think the original vision of Victor where it's a 305 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:54,400 It's almost like a theme park is the way to go, right? Like it's a day to spend out with your family 306 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,320 Take the kids go to the mall. There's other things to do 307 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:05,440 I just do think that the part of the decline is they relied so heavily on retail like that and you're right like it was 308 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,440 just shops on shops on shops and 309 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,800 As e-commerce came along 310 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:16,440 I think these malls saw e-commerce as their competitor when they should see Disneyland as their competitor 311 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:22,520 Right like how do we get people to instead go from a theme park to come spend the day with us and 312 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:28,640 Have a nice day of hanging out and doing things, right? What are your thoughts on that? 313 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,640 Yes, I actually went back to Victor Gruen's original concept as well 314 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,600 And granted I did a little bit more research than you did so I have a leg up on you, but 315 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,880 idea 316 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,800 And granted this was the 2000s. So I'm kind of 317 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,680 Well, you know what? I'm gonna save my idea 318 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:55,920 I'm gonna save my idea for the wrap-up of this okay because it's more relevant to today and how we can like save the mall 319 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,720 Oh, yeah, I like that. I like that 320 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:04,000 I'm gonna start a good campaign save the mall. Yeah, but like even like making sure there's an arcade, right? 321 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:09,080 Like making sure like there's something that you can just kind of like hang out in especially for the kids 322 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,140 I think is key. Yeah, right. Yeah, I think you nailed it 323 00:27:13,140 --> 00:27:18,960 I think in the 2000s if you saw that decline you should go back to the original concept that worked and 324 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:25,360 Start putting in a green space, you know start putting in that bird atrium or 325 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:29,880 Or yeah, make it an enjoyable place to hang out this 326 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,520 Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I and then I'll just tack on one more thing like I you know 327 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,560 I spent a long time living in Europe and abroad and they the malls are like still prevalent there 328 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,240 Like they still utilize the malls and it's because like they're a little different than the US 329 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:54,680 They they do have like atrium and and big hangout spaces and it is kind of true to that original vision, right? 330 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,800 Like it's still stores, but really 331 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:04,840 Designed to be a community hub and they're still they're still popping over there, you know, where did you say you broke up? 332 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,320 Oh in Europe. Sorry like yeah, yeah, just kind of trip Portugal 333 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:14,480 There was a bunch of malls and even like when I lived in Cyprus the little island in the Mediterranean 334 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,920 There was like the centerpiece to their entire city pathos that I was in was this high-end 335 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,400 super ritzy mall 336 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,840 And that's where everybody went. That's where I went, you know to go get stuff and it's just it's still a centerpiece, right? 337 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,960 Their culture over there, which is fascinating 338 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,480 Well, they mall investors 339 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,120 Did not go back to the original concept of Victor Gruen's mall 340 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,560 They just suck in through a Hail Mary and 341 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,640 Made the mega mega mall 342 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:53,280 Oh my god, this opened in 343 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,920 2019 in New Jersey and 344 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:05,240 It had not only a theme park. It had a water park. It had an ice rink and it had an indoor skiing complex 345 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:13,880 Indoor skiing complex. You're a skier. Would you ever go to an indoor skiing complex? 346 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,220 Um, well, I shake my head and I almost said absolutely not but now that you asked me 347 00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:23,880 I'm kind of like interested to just see what that was like, but no, no, I wouldn't you know 348 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,640 Because the whole of skiing is getting outdoors 349 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:35,920 Riding a chairlift I bet this I bet this complex you ride a fucking elevator and you're taking off your skis 350 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,320 You're putting them over your shoulder like that is so I'd not taking off my equipment 351 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,840 Just to put it back on over and over and over again like no thank you 352 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,400 Yeah, okay 353 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,840 My kind of skiing where I don't have I get nervous with the chair lifts when I 354 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,360 You don't know when snowboarding like they stress me out 355 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,520 So if I had an elevator, I'd be like, yep sign me up, you know 356 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,920 But only an elevator that you could just like slide into where you did not like take off all your stuff 357 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:10,880 Yes, like I'm with you and unfortunately, you know this opened in 2019 358 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,000 And then the pandemic hit so 359 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:19,320 Who knows if this place ever had a chance to survive but the pandemic on top of it like 360 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,520 Shirley is gonna bury this mall 361 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:30,680 I didn't take the time to follow up on how this mall is doing because I don't think two years three years is enough of a 362 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:38,600 Qualifier to figure that out. So yeah, we'll be silently rooting for you mega mega mall in New Jersey 363 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,160 Or just like preparing our goodbye, you know, just be like, all right 364 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,560 Or maybe you just won't be a blip on anybody's radar and you can silently just 365 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:58,320 Disappear although you really silently disappear because you just fucking like put your footprint in the middle of New Jersey like 366 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,320 Millions square feet you took up. Yeah 367 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:08,760 So, yeah, well done destroying the earth time it changed. Am I right? 368 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,320 Marketing 369 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,960 Okay, so marketing the mall marketing for you specifically Zach 370 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:24,800 I found an article that referenced the ancient pottery markets of classical Greece as one of the first 371 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:32,000 Form of mall advertising any ideas on what tactics they took or how they did it 372 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,520 the ancient Greece 373 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,760 Well, I do pottery markets 374 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:42,960 Pottery markets in ancient Greece. I do think I mean they were known for like very robust 375 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,960 Markets back in the day, right? Like they it was I were they the first they were the first kind of civilization to have like a 376 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:56,760 Specified market square, right? I was gonna say that to the end but a fun fact 377 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,480 Apollodorus of Damascus built 378 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,000 Trajons 379 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,120 Market which is now considered to have been the world's first shopping mall. So yes 380 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,760 They were the first to kind of revolutionize these markets 381 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:20,160 But why pottery specifically was it just that's what they sold in the markets or? I? 382 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,320 Don't know 383 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,240 Okay, but that that was the theme. So I was I was right. God. It's so hard being right 384 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:36,000 Yes, but so but how did you how do you think the pottery markets would would market their product? 385 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000 Do you have any ideas? 386 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,160 You know, I think I mean 387 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,560 Thinking back to I mean, I don't know a lot about the pottery market 388 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,800 But we're thinking back like they really decorated they took a lot of time decorating these powder these different pottery 389 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:56,620 items so displaying them out front letting people grab them hold them like kind of get physical with the shopping 390 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,160 Yeah, yeah touch it and then 391 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,880 Then buy it right and I think maybe that's the way to go. I think you're thinking even too abstractly 392 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,360 It's pretty it's actually pretty obvious 393 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:14,440 They painted on objects like coins bricks and city walls 394 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,720 They they literally just painted their own murals or painted their own they called them ads 395 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,560 Awesome. Yeah 396 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,080 Yes 397 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:28,440 And which I just paused and I was like, you know, don't you find it crazy? 398 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,560 That advertising has not come any further than that 399 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:38,520 Because you were like, okay ancient ancient ancient how do they had to have like involved touch? 400 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,520 But it's like no they painted on a wall 401 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:50,600 And yeah, same thing we paint on walls to advertise. I agree. I agree. I think if it works, I guess right like 402 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,240 I don't know. I mean like these people 403 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:58,200 threw each other into a gauntlet to be murdered 404 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,000 for sport and 405 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,400 and this was a spectator sport and now we have football 406 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,620 but 407 00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:13,400 How has advertising not made the same adjustments like it's just so right 408 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:20,640 You're so right. I think it's just it's it's like it's the classic thing that you and I always talk about with advertisement 409 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,320 Where it's all about eye line, right? 410 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,720 Like people look at walls like when you're walking if there's some kind of like bright colors 411 00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:32,080 They're good. It's it's all about how to get people to get in their eye line 412 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,100 They know walls is a great way to do it. Yeah, like 413 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:42,920 Fascinating and I think you're right like if it works it works like why re-engineer something that works 414 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,800 But I don't know it's something for us to start thinking about because we market in such a 415 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,640 saturated industry well not even industry just marketing is saturated all this digital space 416 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,640 I 417 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,440 Don't know just something else to think about like how do we revolutionize? 418 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:09,240 Advertising beyond painting on walls or in this day and age painting on a cell phone like yep. Yep. Just like making sure 419 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,640 Yeah, you're so right. There's probably a new way to do it, right? So 420 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,060 The okay, so back to the marketing of malls 421 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:20,760 so 422 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,440 obviously after kind of painting on walls 423 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:29,200 Fazed out the course of invent of course the invention of printing came 424 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,160 So then we started utilizing pamphlets and newspapers 425 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,640 For the shopping mall so their marketing strategy really revolved 426 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,360 I'm sorry, I'm jumping around a little bit. So I'm just gonna kind of piece this together 427 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,320 So one yes, but the start of mall advertising happened in ancient Greece 428 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:55,240 They painted on walls to kind of get people to come to their markets 429 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,920 And then fast forward kind of like the industrial era 430 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:05,880 We started printing and then there's you can run ads and newspapers and pan you can hand pamphlets and leaflets 431 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:12,080 Yeah, now the marketing of malls in the 1950s was really structured around 432 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,920 Find everything you need in one place. It's worth the drive 433 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,400 So they started pushing out this message in every single 434 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,840 Platform that they could so a lot of it was televised radio 435 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,740 That was they really relied heavily on this messaging 436 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:32,240 and 437 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:36,320 It was all about this is worth the drive like trying to get people like 438 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,040 It's worth it to come here get everything you need. That's kind of the messaging get everything you need 439 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,480 I am going to chat you a link right now 440 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:53,400 And this is a you to or this is a mall commercial that I found and I love it from the 80s 441 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000 Could not be more 442 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,640 It's so funny. We're talking about I mean 443 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,760 I don't know if you've seen the new season of stranger things too 444 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,280 But it is all set in or I think it was the previous season or something like that 445 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,600 It was all set in a mall, right? 446 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:14,840 Exactly the first thing I thought of was oh the golden age of the 1980s and then I went to stranger things 447 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,840 Oh, yeah, it took place in a mall. Oh 448 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:27,800 The Syracuse nostalgia presents, huh? Okay. Oh, Jesus. Are we watching it together? Yeah, let's watch it together 449 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,800 I got a skip and add 450 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,760 Okay 451 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,600 I'm terrified I accidentally let it play like ten seconds in 452 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,960 Why were doll why are dolls so terrifying? 453 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:51,240 Okay, so go ahead and play it. This is a Fayetteville mall commercial in 1986 New York 454 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,960 Watch Christmas come alive with storybook scenes in Santa visit to light up little faces 455 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:14,840 You'll find gifts for friends and family something for him and something for her gifts from high tech to high fashion 456 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,880 Exciting toys and Christmas is everywhere and it's there at Fayetteville mall 457 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,480 Interesting I love it 458 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,560 And it really did like throw me back to a bit of nostalgia 459 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,840 Like it was so nice to go to the oops another mall commercial is playing 460 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,520 Hold up. Oh 461 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,800 No, I'm in the algorithm. I mean I'm in the algorithm. It's stuck. Um, oh, yeah 462 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,080 Yeah, so this commercial just kind of it's around its structure 463 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,960 It's centered around Christmas time and it says come to the mall 464 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,320 You can get everything you need in one place so you can send your kid to the Santa's workshop 465 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,720 While you go shop for high tech 466 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:07,320 We also have high and luxury or high designer fashion or whatever they said 467 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,560 So again, it's just pushing that message. It's too 468 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:18,240 What was it? Mm-hmm. I said and hess is to I was just singing the song, you know, yeah, I don't know 469 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:22,200 They said they said it in there. I said it in the commercial. I don't know what hess is 470 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:29,360 So it was kind of yeah, it was once again pushing that message of get everything you need in one place 471 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,360 Um 472 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:36,760 So that was kind of the mall the mall marketing of the 90s the 80s 473 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:45,560 Yeah, I'd oh sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt but can I I'll add like I do think it's interesting that they centered it around 474 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:51,000 Like visiting Santa and it's kind of speaking to our oh, am I jumping ahead? Oh? 475 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:57,800 I like that call out. That's why I pointed. Yeah, so I think like it's like here's some shops 476 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:04,960 But also like visit Santa was prominently featured in that ad like go bring your kids. It's not about shopping 477 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,720 It's going to like have an experience with Santa and your kids see them bright up 478 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,160 And then you can also get all of this stuff 479 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,560 In addition to all your Christmas shopping in one place. Yep 480 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:18,680 and 481 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:23,080 The buying power of children did yeah, it goes back to our 482 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:29,880 Podcast about that. It's like as long as your child is happy you can shop for as long as you want or maybe they could even 483 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:32,720 um 484 00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:36,800 Persuade you to buy something that you normally wouldn't buy so I think the mall 485 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,360 Had this idea of the buying power of children before that was even really a thing. I 486 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:48,160 Completely agree. They know like if they if the families go there and the kids like you know 487 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,000 What's there's like always like a candy store in a mall to 488 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,320 Like like they would just go in there and yeah, I'll sugar it up. Yeah 489 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:04,680 Yep, it's it's incredible. So it was really trying to connect customers with brands 490 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:07,680 But also getting them involved in events and 491 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,120 organized by local communities and 492 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,260 Those are kind of the two main aspects behind shopping mall marketing. I 493 00:41:16,260 --> 00:41:21,620 Found this quote in the Atlantic that I really liked they said 494 00:41:21,980 --> 00:41:27,820 Malls are prison for commerce, but at least the commerce stays inside them 495 00:41:27,820 --> 00:41:29,340 You can leave it again 496 00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:33,580 So as strange as it may sound the mall also allowed people to leave 497 00:41:34,020 --> 00:41:38,700 Commercialism behind like a casino is designed to contain and focus risk 498 00:41:38,820 --> 00:41:44,780 So a mall is designed to do it for expenditures and I just thought that was yeah, I thought that was such a great call out 499 00:41:44,780 --> 00:41:52,020 I completely agree, but is it really like is it really the case because we live consumerism in America now? 500 00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:58,700 Yeah, yeah, it's like you leave them all and they're still like subsidiary stores all around it, right? 501 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:00,700 Absolutely not contained anymore 502 00:42:00,700 --> 00:42:07,300 But I think in the case of this like big, you know golden era where we saw this video take place in the 503 00:42:07,700 --> 00:42:09,780 1986 that was the idea 504 00:42:09,780 --> 00:42:14,540 And it was like a field trip like you get to experience all of this 505 00:42:14,820 --> 00:42:21,940 But then you can leave it behind when it's time to like go back to your real life now. We're inundated by 506 00:42:23,180 --> 00:42:27,540 Consumerism and shopping and I think that maybe now that we're discussing this 507 00:42:27,540 --> 00:42:30,780 I think that leads to the decline of it too. It's not this like 508 00:42:31,780 --> 00:42:37,740 experience anymore by any means because you can go to target and get the same thing 509 00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:41,820 It's in targets are in strip malls and they're on every single corner 510 00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:46,660 I don't know you can just get the things that you need anywhere. You don't have to go to a mall 511 00:42:46,940 --> 00:42:48,940 so it really it really a 512 00:42:49,860 --> 00:42:55,380 Kind of minimalizes the experience that a mall initially set out to have yeah 513 00:42:55,380 --> 00:43:00,180 Can can I ask you kind of a question too and we can cut it if I'm throwing you off? 514 00:43:00,180 --> 00:43:06,500 But like let's say you like are a store owner like you you run like a retail shop 515 00:43:06,500 --> 00:43:08,500 What would be in 86? 516 00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:16,820 Let's say what would be your benefit to like buying store space in a mall like I think like that's a big piece of the mall like 517 00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:21,740 They lease the store space. What would be the attraction for you to say? 518 00:43:21,740 --> 00:43:26,460 I need to be in this mall if you're running the store. I think the first thing would be brand awareness 519 00:43:28,260 --> 00:43:31,900 You you might not have an opportunity to 520 00:43:32,980 --> 00:43:35,740 spend money on marketing and advertising 521 00:43:35,740 --> 00:43:38,540 On billboards or commercials or radio 522 00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:45,260 But in a mall you're capturing all of that foot traffic. That's already there to see other stores 523 00:43:45,260 --> 00:43:50,900 I do want to mention too that the mall structure is always the same 524 00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:57,580 big department stores anchor malls and then the middle of it is kind of inundated with your 525 00:43:57,980 --> 00:44:01,200 Spencer's or your pack sons or your 526 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,560 Francesca's like your smaller and then you have the food court 527 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:13,240 So the anchors of the mall is kind of the main attraction like let's go to a Macy's and then you experience other 528 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:19,480 Smaller stores so hands-down brand awareness and capture traffic that you normally wouldn't see 529 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,960 But that allure is gone now right like there's not a lot of foot traffic. So 530 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,040 Yeah, it's kind of 531 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:32,840 Turned on its head right interesting. I would have asked you though, although it did work for hesses 532 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,240 That was it that was in the commercial we would draw and neither of us know what the fuck has it is 533 00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:44,080 So swinging a miss on that and poor hesses will have to figure out that'll be in our recap next week 534 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,920 Maybe there's still like, you know the last remaining blockbuster 535 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,200 Maybe there's like a last remaining hesses out there that we just don't know about 536 00:44:54,200 --> 00:45:02,960 Yeah, I know that would be amazing. I depends what they sell. I don't know. I don't know like I hope it's like really something classy like a men's 537 00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,600 Like suit store or something, you know, like something dairy 538 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:15,920 Handmade yeah, I like that I like that because that was my thing with malls is like they were in when I was young 539 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:23,320 They were inundated with like female clothing like Claire as you mentioned Claire's like a lot of female specific 540 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:30,080 clothing stores and not a lot of like, you know, I mean PacSun had like male and female, right? 541 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,080 But like not a ton of like 542 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:33,880 guy 543 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:40,760 focused right like stores it was I always felt a little excluded on the clothing front 544 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,040 You know white man feels excluded people you heard it was a hard 545 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:53,040 It was a hard upbringing. I went to malls and didn't speak like it didn't feel like they were speaking directly to me 546 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,200 It was a tough it was a tough spot to be in as a straight white male. It was hard 547 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,520 All right, right 548 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,920 Start a group he needs it. He needs a month 549 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:09,560 Yes 550 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,920 You actually I mean I joke but that is really fascinating. I never thought about that 551 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,480 Yeah, it's just a lot of female centric and yeah 552 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,480 I 553 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,120 Did you enjoy buying clothes for yourself? Like did you enjoy going? I? 554 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:33,480 Actually did and I do think I do think and maybe this is a topic we can elaborate on because I mean 555 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,520 The original intent was a social hub of the city 556 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:43,120 And I think as they morphed in our age in the 90s and early 2000s as they start to decline 557 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,320 it'd be not a full social like community spot, but 558 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,920 It's still a social hub for like teenagers, right? 559 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:58,240 Like when we were growing up like something resonated with teens to like go hang out at the mall like go hang out at the mall so 560 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:00,480 You know I 561 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:07,000 I'd love to buy and close for myself at that age because it was like that rebellious like I want to do it 562 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,520 Like I want to pick my own fashion. I want to see how I you know 563 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:16,400 I want to buy the cool things and you know Hollister and whatever it was like at the time 564 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,840 Like you did want to buy your own clothes, so I felt I did yeah 565 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,560 I think that's a missed opportunity on malls parts because um, you know 566 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:31,280 I my brother liked buying his own clothes like he enjoys I don't know retail shopping to yeah 567 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:39,280 Whereas I think like the general consensus of men is like that you don't enjoy shopping, but maybe that's not true 568 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,560 I mean this is a focus group of two you and my brother 569 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:50,920 I'm sure you both enjoy shopping. Yeah. I enjoy it. You know, maybe they were thinking maybe they didn't understand the buying powers of teens 570 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,520 At the time because like you know 571 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:59,440 I think of like my dad's generation and your dad's generation and they were very much like I mean 572 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,000 They wear the same shirt, you know 573 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:07,080 They have the same design shirt seven different times and like not a lot of fashion choices in that job 574 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,600 and maybe they're focusing on that generation of men that they're like yeah suits and 575 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:19,360 Polo tees and that's about it, right like and and I think our generation was kind of new we were exploring 576 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,440 And I think Gen Z is even more like the their fashion is big, right? 577 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,400 So maybe let's go back to my original question back in the 578 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:33,440 2000s when you saw this decline of them all and all they did was just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger 579 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:40,240 Maybe the solution was to start innovating what stores were actually in there and like start introduce 580 00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:45,280 Start actually figuring out who enjoys shopping and your demographic. Don't just keep multiplying 581 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:46,840 Spencer's 582 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:52,440 Yeah, don't keep my orange Julius is like I agree. You know the other one that bothered me 583 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,560 I've seen him in every mall who the fuck by sportsy 584 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,360 Whatever you say the crystal company score Schwartz key crystals 585 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,120 Who goes to a mall to buy? 586 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:11,120 Like who goes to a mall to buy like you'd always pass the stores and they're gorgeous and glittering and I'm like 587 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,880 Who the fuck goes in there to buy crystals at a mall? 588 00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,960 Swarovski what I don't fucking know some 589 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:26,000 For Swarovski, I don't know it has the little swan logo like that's all I do 590 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,120 That's all I know. Did you just see me like do the outline of this one as you were saying that? 591 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,520 Great brand great brand identity 592 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,800 Swarovski because we can't pronounce your name, but we do know your logo small yes 593 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:45,160 And I know their stores. They were always so glittery and pretty but like who would who would do that in a mall? 594 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:50,200 You know, they're not crystals there. It's a jewelry store. No, it's like crystals 595 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:56,520 Isn't it isn't it's whatever the name is Swartz key whatever whatever crystals is what it is, right? 596 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,280 Well, we'll follow up to the 597 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:08,160 Conversation in Swarovski. We'll get back. Yeah, but even to expand they have K like K jewelers and like jewelry stores like I 598 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:15,640 Any guy that went to get an engagement ring at a mall maybe like, you know, double-think your life choices 599 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:20,100 Like maybe there's a better option for you out there like 600 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:27,760 K-Jewelers is like really pushing marketing these days, so I feel like K-Jewelers is I don't know 601 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,600 They have the pulse on the radar. Maybe they're onto something. I don't know 602 00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:36,720 Maybe they know something I don't but like I would never like go to the mall and then like go to Spencer's and be like 603 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,720 Oh, maybe I should pick up an engagement ring 604 00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:40,720 Yeah, like yeah 605 00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:46,280 If you if you were thinking about getting engaged and you brought your girl to pick out an engagement ring at K-Jewelers 606 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,280 I would fucking leave you 607 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,120 like done 608 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,920 It's like it's like the casco of jewelry, right? 609 00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:02,720 Yeah, it's like just a little more thought and effort into something important goes a long way, right? 610 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:08,400 It's not just like get it done. Yep. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. Um, okay. I 611 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:15,560 Love this I didn't think this would be a very long podcast, but it turns out that we have a lot of feelings about malls. I 612 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,760 Agree, I have a lot of feelings about a lot of things. Yeah, yeah 613 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,480 So let's talk about now 614 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:24,760 now 615 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:31,200 Really beyond just shifting consumer habits from the department store because that's kind of what we're seeing right now 616 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,000 Like people are kind of over the department store 617 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,920 But you have to keep in mind that the whole idea of a mall was for this third place 618 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:45,840 For people to live and hang out but in the two thousands what happened to that idea 619 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:52,720 What happened to this idea of the third place? Yes, Zach the smartphone happened 620 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,880 So that third place for people to hang out not only shifted away 621 00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,680 Like people were over the department stores a while ago 622 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:05,800 But now they've got a new place to hang out. So the mall is becoming obsolete. Oh 623 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:12,400 So you would say the malls even competing with like social media and like online like 624 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,160 Fascinating as you go back to the original concept. Yeah 625 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,600 This is a place to hang out and feel good and get an escape 626 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,440 But a really in this day and age escapism happens in your cell phone, which is you know 627 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,600 We talk about it in every in every podcast we could go down a tangent 628 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,760 Yeah, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things wrong with it, but that is what it is 629 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,120 interesting an 630 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:42,760 Article from the LA Times made a good call out saying that the mall was an accurate representation of 631 00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:48,920 Fashion and pop culture at the time. So if you saw Jessica Simpson wearing a bucket hat 632 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:56,800 You could go buy that bucket hat at limited to but it's just not reflective of that anymore 633 00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:03,560 It's just junk. It is it's knick-knacks. It's I agree. I agree 634 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:10,480 The mall itself is unimaginably smaller than what you can find on the internet 635 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:18,360 And not in a curated sense, right? Like not in a boutique. You have a fucking Spencer's at every single mall 636 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,520 Nobody needs a Spencer's 637 00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:27,840 No, I agree and do you know what Spencer's is? Am I just like? No, no, I'm very aware what Spencer's everyone 638 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:33,000 You should know what Spencer's is it's like kind of like hot topic mixed with like dad gifts mixed with like I don't 639 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:39,520 Costs toys. Yeah, you can buy like you can buy like bloody Halloween costumes there. That's where you went to become a nurse 640 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,360 I don't know I feel like maybe I'm gonna be like a nurse 641 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,200 I don't know I feel like I'm gonna be like a nurse 642 00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,640 That's where you get that's where you get your nurse's certificate 643 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,800 Yeah, it's a wild place 644 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:05,680 Did you ever go well, like do you remember any purchases at Spencer's that you made I honestly think that like in college 645 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:12,640 And beyond that, I don't know. I feel like maybe I picked picked up a maybe a gag gift or two 646 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:17,960 But I could not there was like maybe two purchases from Spencer's in my life. Yeah 647 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,560 Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't I'm not a knick-knack person 648 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,560 But like I am a big t-shirt 649 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:30,120 I had a big like t-shirt phase and they did have like funny and pop culture t-shirts in there 650 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:35,880 So I do remember like going in like that wall of t-shirts, you know, and I'm talking graphic tea era 651 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,440 The graphic tea area, so I do remember like going in and picking out a few of those 652 00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:47,120 Shot glasses like yeah, Pong stuff like I had like a little stuff like that 653 00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:52,440 But no no big purchases at Spencer's. Yeah, definitely not when I was in high school by any means 654 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,320 I felt like maybe I explored Spencer's a little bit more when I was in 655 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,960 Yeah, definitely a college like frat boat bro thing 656 00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,000 absolutely um 657 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:03,920 and 658 00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:11,040 I think something else they called out in the LA Times and we've kind of tiptoed around is like at the end of the day in this 659 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,880 Day in era like people don't want to buy fashion 660 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:20,840 That's been dictated to them like malls curate stores and you on the internet 661 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,800 You have the opportunity to explore whatever you want 662 00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:30,320 So you can find underground labels and truly sustainable companies like wherever you want to fit into culture 663 00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:34,280 You can find that piece of the internet ready and waiting for you 664 00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:43,160 Versus the mall in the 80s and the 90s that was the culture you had to fit into the mall culture in order to stand to fit in 665 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:48,040 But now it like you have all these corners of the internet where you could find culture 666 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:53,120 Yeah, it's almost like the death of the mannequin, you know what I'm saying people would like see 667 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,640 The clothes like on a mannequin and they'd be like yeah, that's the outfit. I want you're so right 668 00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:00,880 But now you can like piece together your own style, right? 669 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:07,280 Wait, that's did you just did you just come up with the death of the mannequin or have you absolutely? 670 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,200 I know right on the spot right on the spot 671 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:16,400 Because it is at first I laughed but at first it's true because like I don't need a mannequin to show me what clothes 672 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,400 I like because I can see it on Rihanna 673 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:24,440 Yeah, Rihanna is a much better looking mannequin than any plastic toy, you know, it's like 674 00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:29,640 You you want to buy from people and that's yes the bottom line 675 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:37,080 Yeah, and I agree and companies that are like I think it's it's now cooler to be like a niche niche company like you know 676 00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:39,640 I can't speak for teenagers 677 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:45,040 but like the like going back to your dad like the label of Hollister that carried weight as a 678 00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:52,320 Teenager our age is now looked at as like oh, that's a that's a lazy form of fashion, right? 679 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:57,800 Like yeah, I'm with you. I want to just quickly note that that 680 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,680 Comment is exactly what kicked off this whole idea 681 00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,440 There is a documentary out on Netflix called white hot 682 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,720 Abercrombie 683 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:14,760 About Abercrombie and Fitch and how Abercrombie's marketing messaging was all centered around 684 00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,960 whiteness total whiteness and 685 00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:24,760 Down to the store level like they cared so much about the whiteness of their brand that they would not hire 686 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:30,960 people of color and and when they got sued for this they actually okay, they 687 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:36,640 Diversified their employees, but you know what they did they put people of color in the back 688 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:43,400 So the front-facing employees the cashiers would still be that whitewashed college bro frat bro 689 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:45,920 You know Connecticut looking person 690 00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:50,640 Yeah, and then they put the people of color in the back stocking 691 00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:54,800 Yeah, Abercrombie was one of the places I applied to when I was trying to work in the mall 692 00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:02,160 I was like oh, this would be so trendy so cool and you're right even as a white man. I was turned away 693 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,720 I wasn't cool enough. I'm not like Connecticut white man, you know like I'm 694 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:07,720 I'm average 695 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,600 My husband 696 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:18,320 Managed in Abercrombie for a long time. I'm so happy. I know that about him now. Oh my god. Yes 697 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:25,160 So that's like a little point of pride like my husband was good-looking enough to work at an Abercrombie people 698 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:32,400 The manager of an Abercrombie manager. Yeah, they were like they were like you're you're white level too 699 00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:38,960 I'm saying like you you're not just front like we're putting you in charge your two point. Oh 700 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:44,600 But I do want to say that he isn't he's only he's half German and half Japanese 701 00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:50,680 So he walks up, you know, he really broke barriers back then he stood for the people of color 702 00:58:54,920 --> 00:59:00,120 Okay, yeah, we're gonna that's a dangerous road for us to go down but good for good for him, you know 703 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,800 I'm proud of him 704 00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,680 Make sure you keep that on his resume. Yeah, absolutely 705 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:11,120 But yeah, so the whole Abercrombie story just kind of fascinated me. Well, actually it didn't fascinate me 706 00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:17,200 It was kind of obvious to me to be quite honest, but I was like, you know, what happened to malls 707 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:25,560 So that's kind of what kicked this whole thing off. But yes Abercrombie Hollister American Eagle like the staples of malls 708 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,360 Let's see here where well, I have one more thing with that 709 00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:35,280 I mean the other brand that I think of with air Abercrombie is aeropostal, right? 710 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:40,000 Like and that that was like the big one and I do know like when I when I 711 00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:46,480 Lived in Mexico for a little while like that was a hot hot brand to have like they would get all the unsold 712 00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:51,760 Aeropostal stuff and like that was like in Mexican culture like that was like the nice 713 00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:57,440 Nice clothes to have so it is interesting even how it's it may be deflating here 714 00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:03,080 I don't think it's done that with the rest of the world yet. I think it's still pretty prevalent. Oh 715 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,320 Yeah, it's fascinating 716 01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:12,880 Well, that guy that has to be our third follow-ups. We got Hesses. We got Abercrombie and we have Swarovski 717 01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:20,000 Swarovski, Swarovski, Swarovski, Swarovski, Swarovski, whatever they do. Another call-out is this booming 718 01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,480 industry of vintage and 719 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:30,180 Resale fashion so people don't want to look like they are wearing crisp clothes anymore. That is a thing of the past 720 01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:36,940 You know someone was quoted in the LA Times the same article just saying like I don't want to look like I'm wearing a shirt 721 01:00:36,940 --> 01:00:40,560 That I just got out of the package if I get if someone asked me where I got it 722 01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:45,360 I want to be able to have a story to tell and I find that very true about myself. I 723 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:51,620 Love when someone compliments some sort of clothing items. I love being able to be like yeah 724 01:00:51,620 --> 01:00:55,220 I dug this out of a barrel at Goodwill. Thank you 725 01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:02,160 I love that like a lot of me and my friends have a lot of like clothing exchanges 726 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:06,880 So it's cool to also be like yeah, I could pick this up from my girlfriends, you know 727 01:01:08,240 --> 01:01:15,480 Like you have a clothing exchange party like you all get together just bring a bunch of clothes and like it's like the Tupperware version 728 01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:20,640 Of 32 year old no, no, no, it's not a party. It just kind of like 729 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:25,400 Happens like maybe well the latest one one of my girlfriends was like 730 01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:31,800 I have a ton of shit that I need to get rid of do you guys want to go through it and then that kind of spawned something 731 01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:38,240 Everyone's like I also have a ton of shit. Hey, I have a ton of shit and so we brought all of our shit together and exchange shit 732 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,440 Amazing that's a great idea. That's a fun party 733 01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:48,160 Come on men. Let's have more fun together. Like why why do we have to like? 734 01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:55,520 Sit around and talk sports all day like let's let's do some clothes exchanges. I'd be I did treat me 735 01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:01,720 I want to roll that into the male culture a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm down 736 01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,400 I think that's a great idea. Thanks. I thought you were gonna make fun of me for it 737 01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,360 No, I mean that was my initial plan, but then you explained it and now I'm like, oh, okay like 738 01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,360 I 739 01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,720 Get it. Yeah, I'm always down to listen. I 740 01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:20,920 Also, just love it because it's like 741 01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:29,040 It's just another way to save the planet, you know, I'm never ending hunts. I have my soapbox here 742 01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,200 Don't need and don't buy fast fashion. Okay 743 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,360 Let's see new clothing is a saturated mark. Okay moving on 744 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:40,760 Hmm 745 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:44,120 thrift and consignment endeavors are a booming industry 746 01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:49,160 It in I'm sorry. And I think it was 2018 747 01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:55,080 It was an 18 billion dollar economy that's set to balloon to a 33 billion dollar economy. So 748 01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:00,680 how much do you credit that growth to Macklemore and 749 01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,680 And 750 01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:09,640 Zero I 751 01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:14,880 Are you sure not even like 2% not even like come on 752 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,800 I'm not gonna lie because what that album came out in 753 01:03:20,840 --> 01:03:23,720 2012 or something which could be like 754 01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,040 When I really started taking a look at thrift stores 755 01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:35,880 Do maybe maybe like 2% right like it was like I I do remember like the thrift store 756 01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:43,400 Like craze after the song thrift shop came out where it was like, oh, yeah, like let's go check out the thrift short store 757 01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:51,880 I'm all I'm saying like it is like, you know, just like balls were pop culture a little a little hit song 758 01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,200 Damn stores to if nothing else 759 01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:59,640 Macklemore cook might have just saved our planet 760 01:04:01,040 --> 01:04:03,840 He might not have made it very far in the music industry 761 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:09,600 He was a blip on the radar for two years, but holy shit. Did he have an impact on the 762 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:12,240 thing on climate change 763 01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,320 Gretta Thurneberg and Macklemore 764 01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:22,120 Leaders teams we need thought leader of our time. I don't know you might be right 765 01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:26,400 I'm not counting it. I you know, I laughed at first, but now I'm kind of like, hmm 766 01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:33,440 Maybe just like one or two percent not the entire thing. But like yeah. Yeah, and what's 1% of 18 billion like that 767 01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:37,880 Yeah, like yeah, like a significant amount, right? 768 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,640 So Zach any chance of fixing them all? 769 01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:47,280 That's a great question 770 01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:54,440 Maybe you can think about that because I do have some bullet points. You know, I worked at Nordstrom and that is what I did 771 01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,800 I pushed product. I was a producer in the beauty industry and 772 01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:06,720 Sorry, not beauty industry, but the beauty department and we all we did day in and day out was make 773 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,120 Campaigns for the latest product and 774 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:19,600 Brands bought those placement. So every time you walk into a department store or the beauty 775 01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:27,640 Department specifically because that's all I know and you see like an ad for the latest Chanel lipstick 776 01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:33,040 And it's in the middle of the floor and you kind of have to walk around it and it's displaying all of Chanel's latest lipstick 777 01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:35,240 They pay for that placement 778 01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:40,800 So I think that contributes like that aspect of marketing definitely contributes 779 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:49,360 To the mall's growth where I should say Nordstrom's growth at the very least like you're getting a significant amount of money from that one placement 780 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,000 For a month. It was like twenty thousand dollars 781 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,480 But I think to just spin off of that like creating 782 01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:01,400 Structures creating an environment 783 01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:06,440 Creating a place where people want to go. So stop 784 01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,040 pushing product down people's throats and 785 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:17,040 Like more is not better. So don't build more malls make them exclusive again potentially 786 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:22,960 And then use these spaces like these middle spaces in the mall as 787 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:29,280 Visual statements and while I was at Nordstrom, we had a whole team dedicated to 788 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:36,800 To this very thing. So you walk down. So there's like the beauty department and then underneath there's kind of like the men's 789 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:41,720 There was an entire department that had that had an ever-changing 790 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:50,480 Structure on a monthly basis installment. I should say so different light, you know, they would create like this cool place to go shop 791 01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:55,720 And then we had another one on the upstairs level. So one month 792 01:06:55,720 --> 01:07:02,120 It would be like hello kitty themed or something or one month. It would be like for dogs for pets 793 01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:06,080 And they created this environment and so I thought that was really well done 794 01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:09,000 And I think maybe something that malls currently can 795 01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,840 Implement themselves. Yeah, I think that's I think that's a great call and I think I see too 796 01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:20,880 I see it going either direction from where it's at right now. I love the idea of 797 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:28,600 Exclusivity like what if malls hired hired personal shoppers again, like you could go to the mall and maybe it's a 798 01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:33,920 You know the small fee and you have like as someone that knows the mall that 799 01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:38,120 listens to you and then you walk with them and you know, they 800 01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:44,680 They help you choose different clothes and piece things together and go to the different stores like that kind of like exclusive 801 01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:46,960 Personalized help would be helpful 802 01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:52,680 But I also think in the other direction like if you can't you can't compete with e-commerce convenience, right? 803 01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,360 Shopping in your sweatpants on your phone is 804 01:07:55,840 --> 01:08:03,560 You can't as a mall, right? Like it's impossible where you might be able to get them is price point, right? Like if it's 805 01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:06,640 if you reduce the price of 806 01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:12,080 Products in the mall and it's cheaper it to just drive to the mall get it 807 01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:14,840 Then it is our around line 808 01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:20,280 Then you maybe drawing some people back is like maybe it's just like a discount 809 01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:26,120 I don't think area. It's impossible. It's impossible. You can't you can't discount 810 01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:31,740 Steeply enough to compete with e-commerce. I mean nothing is cheaper than 811 01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:38,160 Amazon right now, you know and like Amazon's customer service the two-day turnaround. So I actually 812 01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:44,000 Respectfully disagree with anything you said 813 01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:50,040 Well, at least you put respectfully in front of it some my feelings aren't hurt at all, you know 814 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:51,000 Here's my thing 815 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,520 I love that you brought that up though 816 01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:59,600 And this is why we're great business partners is like you think about things that I don't and then I kind of come around to him 817 01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:04,800 So, you know, we could continue having this conversation offline and maybe I might come around to it 818 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:12,240 But I hate the idea of a personal shopper hate it. Yeah, this is your Midwest nature and my like very sheltered West 819 01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:14,320 Like I hate everybody nature 820 01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:20,960 You're like, yeah, I want to talk to someone like walk me through the mall and I'm like absolutely not like let me do this myself 821 01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,280 Hey, yeah, hey, they have a personal shopper 822 01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,680 And then the discount 823 01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:32,480 You just you can't compete on that level. So I think in my opinion, this is what I would do 824 01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:39,080 This is kind of my suggestion back at my initial question. Yeah, I'm gonna bring it full circle. I think 825 01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:44,880 We talked a lot about the repetitive nature and the redundancy of 826 01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:49,680 These malls, you know when you walk into a mall in California 827 01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,760 You're gonna have the same shops if you walk into a mall in New York 828 01:09:54,000 --> 01:10:00,400 So I go back to this exclusivity where you revolutionize the stores that are actually in there 829 01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:07,440 Introduce stores to people that they would not normally find like I don't want to see another abacrombie 830 01:10:07,440 --> 01:10:09,200 I don't want to see another 831 01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:13,520 American Eagle I've seen it before I know what they have to offer show me a 832 01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:20,800 Sustainable brand that I have never found before, you know or instead of Lulu lemon 833 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:26,240 Can you provide me an alternative to leggings or athleisure wear? 834 01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:32,360 I want alternatives to mainstream and I think that's what initially the mall 835 01:10:32,480 --> 01:10:36,400 Well, no, I don't see I don't think that that's what it set out to do 836 01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,360 But I think we can pivot to that 837 01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:46,000 I think the mall should become an alternative to mainstream instead of being mainstream 838 01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:51,960 Yeah, I love that. So let me flip that. I completely agree with you and then so let me flip the script 839 01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,480 Let's say you're like a niche e-commerce company 840 01:10:54,480 --> 01:11:01,120 Um, who's you know sustainable clothing and you're doing well in the e-commerce front. What's what's a mall? 841 01:11:02,160 --> 01:11:09,880 Have to do to pitch you to buy a brick-and-mortar placement like why why why would you draw a brick-and-mortar placement? 842 01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:12,560 right stores around me so 843 01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:18,320 And this is kind of what I have this I even got going on this. I was like damn we should invest in a mall 844 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:23,680 Because okay, so I went to this place like a cosmetic 845 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:27,400 Dermatologist in Bellevue 846 01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:30,960 Seattle right Bellevue is its own city 847 01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,680 But Bellevue Washington and Bellevue is known to be like the 848 01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:43,160 Frufru city like that is where all the Cougars hang out. That's where people have a lot of that's where a lot of people have a lot of money 849 01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:48,640 So there is this place it was a cosmetic dermatologist and in that place 850 01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:52,520 There was a fitness center and then a juice bar and I was like, oh my god 851 01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:58,080 I want to hang out here all day. So just kind of expanding on that idea to provide 852 01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:06,560 Services in addition to little things that can like you know, you're there for cosmetic dermatology 853 01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:12,760 Maybe there's a unique makeup store. It's not Sephora. It's not fucking Ulta 854 01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:19,480 It's a unique. It's Fenty, you know, Rihanna's brand or it's Morphe or you know, it's a unique brand 855 01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:26,400 That you haven't heard of before but they offer sustainable sustainable, you know vegan product, you know 856 01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,320 It's like you want the whole experience 857 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:36,200 So if I was if I was somewhere if I was a company that was just living in the e-commerce world and a mall pitched me and said 858 01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,880 Hey, we're gonna have this lineup of stores and guess what in the middle 859 01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:46,480 We're gonna have a yoga studio. So people are not only coming here to shop 860 01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:53,200 They're coming here to exercise and everything that your brand stands for we're going to offer that in this place 861 01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,920 so I think malls just kind of I 862 01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:05,680 Start to build their own brand. It's no longer like Fayetteville shopping center. Yeah, it's Fayetteville 863 01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:10,240 But what does Fayetteville bring to you? It's yeah, they local 864 01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:11,840 local 865 01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:20,280 Handmade, you know and not all of them have to be this like that girl aesthetic. They can be you know artisan 866 01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:25,560 Yeah, I think you know catering to sorry. I'm getting like really hype now 867 01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:31,640 You're buying me. We're winning me over a hundred percent. Okay. So this is where I ask you for money 868 01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:34,480 How much do you want to invest? I'm just kidding 869 01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:42,680 No, but I do want to say like I think you're exactly on the right track because what in our generation 870 01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,120 Especially and and the younger generation 871 01:13:45,560 --> 01:13:53,360 What is seeing the huge rise is farmer markets like farmers markets like go into the farmers markets go into these and it is like 872 01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:59,080 Little niche like they just have little tents. I went to one last weekend where it was like little jewelry stores 873 01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:06,680 They're still charging 80 bucks a pop for like a necklace, right? But like it is something that you it's a brand that you don't know 874 01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:10,920 It's like it's local. You talk to the designer you talk to the owner 875 01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:19,560 That I agree because farmers markets are on the rise and malls are on the decline and it's because it's it's a McDonald's of shopping 876 01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:24,040 Right, you can go to a McDonald's in Cali in New York and get the same thing. Yeah, yeah 877 01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:33,320 And Victor Gruen is like you guys totally bastard eyes this my idea of a mall by putting in a KFC 878 01:14:33,880 --> 01:14:38,160 Like what are you doing putting in a KFC? I wanted it to be this cosmopolitan 879 01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:43,500 Yep, and and so that's kind of the mall evolved into this 880 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:46,200 bastard child 881 01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,880 Yeah, and I just think about like even still like the 882 01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,520 Chicago where I'm at like we have the the 883 01:14:54,360 --> 01:15:00,360 Michigan Avenue like it's it's like them. I think they call it the miracle mile and it is like 884 01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:08,300 Burberry coach like huge like forever 21 is like five stories. They have the world's biggest Starbucks there 885 01:15:08,300 --> 01:15:12,560 It's like a five-story Starbucks. Why do you know world's biggest Starbucks? 886 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:19,360 Like what more can you offer me than like the seven drinks on the menu? Oh, it's like specialty items 887 01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:26,800 And like they have a full alcoholic bar too. So you could like go and like get an espresso martini. They have like 888 01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:30,560 Special reserve Starbucks in there. It's yeah, yeah, yeah 889 01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:36,760 It is actually there is one in Seattle and I love I don't I go I went to it 890 01:15:36,760 --> 01:15:42,200 Maybe once but like it does feel very posh walking in there. Yeah, but you're still ordering the same thing 891 01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:45,600 You're still ordering like a microwave egg sandwich. Yeah 892 01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:52,640 I'm doing it and I'm paying a dollar extra for it. Yep, and it's worth it. Yeah, the pikes play Seattle one 893 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,640 Like it's five dollars extra. Yeah 894 01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:01,320 But it is like but it is like and the people that live here are like, oh 895 01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,840 Michigan Avenue, but like it's a tourist destination, right? 896 01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:12,080 Like people come from all over the Midwest to go shopping. It's it's a madhouse at Christmas, right? Like it is 897 01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,880 And it works right it works. I don't know man 898 01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:24,720 Yeah, but I just think I think the mall can evolve into I think brick-and-mortar needs to evolve in 899 01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:29,120 Itself people are sick of seeing the same stores over and over and over again 900 01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:33,840 So let's fucking get Abercrombie onto e-commerce and get girlfriend leggings 901 01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:36,840 into malls 902 01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:41,600 Shout out girlfriend leggings. I know I always shout out girlfriend leggings. I'm wearing them right now 903 01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:47,880 But um, yeah, it's just something it's like a leg and company that it's sustainable 904 01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,720 It's made out of plastic water bottles that people don't know about 905 01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:56,720 I'm sure they're they do have an audience like they're pretty popular, but it's like I want to see that 906 01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:02,480 I don't want to see a lululemon like I've seen it. I'm done. I want to be introduced to something more so I 907 01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:06,280 Completely agree. Let's just revelate Luciana is the idea of brick-and-mortar 908 01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:12,640 Entirely and I think malls can survive. I think malls have a chance if we get Spencer's out and girlfriends in 909 01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:18,760 Yeah, and what about I mean even is let's just say like you do have like let's say forever 21, right? 910 01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:22,560 Like you do have an e-commerce platform, but you also have the brick-and-mortar 911 01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:29,600 What's here in like your gut reaction to forever 21 saying hey like you can promote it on your website 912 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:36,200 Like here's a new shirt, but it's only available in brick-and-mortar to try to get people to like go to like you have 913 01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,440 Way interesting tactic 914 01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:43,400 Yeah, like you have exclusive items that you have to go to the brick-and-mortar store for 915 01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:46,760 Instead of offering everything you can online, right? 916 01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,280 I love that idea and I am I'm actually just like now 917 01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:58,360 I'm spitball and because you talked about like there's like a selfie museum and there's the Museum of Ice Cream where people cannot get enough 918 01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:00,640 Of that shit and you know what it is 919 01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:05,880 It's just like a whole room painted pink and it's monochromatic and you have a pink couch 920 01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:11,560 Like how hard is that to replicate in a brick-and-mortar store? You know, it's not very hard 921 01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:17,400 So you create this whole experience in Seattle. There was a Glossier pop-up 922 01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:21,200 The line and I was working at Nordstrom at the time 923 01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:28,720 So we all went as a team the line was around the block waiting to go into this Glossier pop-up 924 01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:35,440 Why I can buy Glossier online, but they created this pop-up experience where there was you know 925 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:42,280 Greenery in the windows like they had this I mean to your point. They had like a personal personalized 926 01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:47,280 Shopper coming up to you and greeting you and walking you through all the stuff and it's 927 01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:51,680 Um, so I think the space itself 928 01:18:52,800 --> 01:19:01,520 Needs to feel yeah, not just the mall, but the stores in the mall need to make you want to take a picture of yourself 929 01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:04,640 Yeah, I agree like I went to the 930 01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:10,840 Girl I went to the Glossier pop-up in Seattle here. I am and then you create a fandom 931 01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:19,600 Yeah, I agree like you have those little I think even if they you know now I spitball into even if it's not like you get these 932 01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:24,760 These localized because the the issue that I saw with getting like these brands that you've never heard of is 933 01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:30,520 I think the novelty will wear off right like you go the first time and you're like, oh, I've never heard of this brand 934 01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:36,000 You go in there. You love the stuff girlfriend leggings. Oh, this is sustainable. You buy some there next time 935 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,560 Are you you're just gonna go to the website and be like, yo, I want more of them, right? 936 01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:47,400 So what about you know, what about like, you know, these brands just kind of coming and going so every time you go to the mall 937 01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:49,960 It's a little bit of a new experience, right? 938 01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:57,920 Like you maybe are there like brands just kind of like if it's if malls allow brands to rent out a space a storefront for a month 939 01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:02,400 And it's like we're here for one month come in here get these exclusive pop-ups 940 01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:08,240 And then they're gone and then you come back next time and it's a new brand and like it's always it's kind of this 941 01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:15,280 Evolving shifting experience rather than just set in stone. You're gonna get Schwartz secret stoles or whatever 942 01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:23,240 Could not be more of a fan of this idea, but I also want to kind of combat the original argument, which is like 943 01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,520 People can go and get introduced to girlfriend leggings, but then buy it online 944 01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:29,800 but my theory my 945 01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,960 Proposal is to put in something that keeps people coming back like a yo 946 01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:40,980 Yeah, like a juice bar like a wellness center like oh my god, if you just name anything wellness 947 01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:43,280 Your white girl is gonna like 948 01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:50,040 You know you get it. So like all the white girls are gonna be like yes wellness sign me up 949 01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:58,160 So 950 01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:01,280 That experience getting people a juice bar 951 01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:06,800 So replace the orange Julius with something healthy like RX bars or something. Yeah, I don't know 952 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:08,240 There's just so many ways to innovate 953 01:21:08,240 --> 01:21:15,040 There's so many cool companies out there that I don't understand why the malls still have a Macy's and a Sears 954 01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:17,040 Yeah, heard at both sides 955 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:23,480 You could I don't know I think you're exactly right and so like in our mall 956 01:21:23,480 --> 01:21:27,080 Let's let's say the Caitlyn and Zach mall that we're gonna build 957 01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:33,480 In an ideal world built for the future instead of anchors as department stores 958 01:21:33,480 --> 01:21:38,140 We have anchors that are like a gym a yoga studio like community 959 01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:44,880 Community things right like that is the anchor and then in the shops in the middle are shifting 960 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:51,280 I think that's the mall of the future right like you just have little pop-ups there that are gonna come and go 961 01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:55,120 So you have these anchors that draw the community in not for retail 962 01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:59,780 But for but for like community engagement back to the original vision 963 01:21:59,780 --> 01:22:04,040 Yeah, and then you have this kind of living organism of stores in the middle 964 01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:07,640 That's not just stagnant but always something new and 965 01:22:08,520 --> 01:22:12,060 Moving and I love that. I love that I 966 01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:15,480 Think I have nothing else to add 967 01:22:15,480 --> 01:22:22,480 I feel like we have built this utopian future of the mall and I just want to leave on a good note before either one of 968 01:22:22,480 --> 01:22:24,480 Us fucks it all up. So yep 969 01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:29,600 It'll get bastardized enough the utopian vision of the mall has been made 970 01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,160 We're trademarking it so don't steal it from us 971 01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:39,960 But if investors are out there and they'd like to invest in our idea, please get ahold of us or join our Facebook group 972 01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:50,120 The best plug I'm gonna let you know I'll let you finish the plug but my god, that was brilliant. That was amazing 973 01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:54,240 Our our Facebook group is manipulating the masses 974 01:22:54,720 --> 01:23:00,040 podcast and we will put I have a ton of awesome 1986 975 01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:06,800 1980s mall commercials that I'm gonna submit. I hope to find my old glamour shots 976 01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:10,360 So you guys can see those I am very young so be nice 977 01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:19,920 Yeah, don't put too hard, but you can make fun and that's it. That's all she wrote