Hello, my name's Caitlin and it's in me.
Is it in you?
Do you know what we're talking about by the way?
No, I have no idea, but I figured it out.
You didn't tell me before this, but I figured it out
because that was a good intro.
And I'm Zach and I prefer Powerade
if I'm gonna go on the uncounted opinion.
I don't know, we're talking about Gatorade, right?
It was a-
Yes, we are.
Yep, yep, good job.
I was hoping you were,
I was hoping you were gonna shoot from the hip
and come at me with another marketing slogan from Gatorade,
but I think the big one was a little bit,
it predates us a little bit.
Like we were babies.
Yeah, what is it?
No, not that one, be like Mike was a big one.
Whoa, that was a Gatorade slogan.
Yep, yep.
With the whole song.
Uh-huh. God damn.
I'm gonna learn a lot today.
All right, I'm excited.
And welcome to Manipulating the Masses.
Don't give yourselves to brutes,
men who despise you and slave you,
who regiment your lives,
tell you what to do, what to think, or what to feel,
who drill you, diet you, treat you like cattle,
use you as cannon fodder.
Don't give yourselves to these unnatural men,
machine men with machine minds and machine hearts.
You are not machines, you are not cattle,
you the people have the power.
Okay.
All right.
So, Mac, we're gonna like spice it up a little bit.
I wanted to add two sections into our podcast format.
And to our listeners,
I promise we won't make this longer than it needs to be,
but I was thinking about something yesterday.
I was kind of having a brainstorming session, party of one.
And I wanted to do like a mini roast.
And because I was thinking of something
that you always do on this podcast,
and I was gonna call you out for it.
And I was like, well, it's not really fair
if I call him out and he can't call me out.
So we're gonna have a mini roast.
And maybe just one bullet point each, right?
Like we don't need to sit here and roast each other all day,
but so what I was gonna call you out on was my intros.
I was listening to previous podcasts of ours
and every single intro that I do,
you always like sit back and you're always like,
oh man, that was a good one.
And although it's very validating and thanks to you,
it's like your Midwestern nature, I'm like, if he does this,
if he says, oh, that was a good one,
I'm gonna lose my shit.
And so I was gonna preface.
Would you rather me talk shit like you do every time
where it's like, oh, you don't have to explain the joke,
Zach, you know, but it's so fair enough.
True, true, true.
We balance each other out.
I feel like I had to level us where it's like,
we can't always be positive and I have to be real.
I have to be the real one.
You're very like, you're very packaged with a funnel.
Sunshine's rainbows, yeah, yeah, cool with that, cool with that.
Okay, well, as far as Roscoe, I'll take that, you know?
Like being too positive, I'm okay with that.
Let me tell you mine that I thought of
because I'm the one that edits these podcasts
and I swear to God, I could read war and peace
between some of your thoughts.
Like it is, it is, now I have to caveat that.
I have filler words, I'm like, you know,
but good Lord Caitlyn, like I have to cut it down.
And you know what the difficult thing is?
I have to cut it down so it still seems reasonable
and not like someone, not like our mics went out
for 20 seconds, but so I hear you're still pondering.
I definitely hear you on that
and I do take advantage of it,
where I'm like, sometimes I'll pause
and I'll be thinking of what I have to say.
And then I like, you're not telling me to can speed it up.
So I'm like, oh, maybe I'll take a little bit longer
to think about what I have to say
because he's not saying anything to me.
Like maybe he enjoys this, Silen.
You can't, my idea is you can't rush brilliance, Caitlyn,
as far as hyping you up, you can't rush it.
Let it come naturally.
It comes out in the editing where I literally have to just
like cut it down by five or six seconds to make it.
Seemed like a normal person.
Five or six seconds in real time is excruciating.
That's too long.
Oh yeah.
In podcast time, way too long.
Like you can't sit there with dead space for, you know,
like 10 seconds.
See, this is why I appreciate this
because I'm gonna be cognizant of that moving forward.
And these are things like at this stage
in our podcasting career, we need to step it up.
Like we're at, you know, season three,
this arbitrary season three that you've made up.
Thank you.
You did.
I just like mixed it up.
But to that point we launched,
I believe it's gonna be two years
by the time this podcast comes out.
I think this might be like our two year check mark.
Which I'm really proud of us for sticking with it
because there were some moments
where we could not get through it.
Oh yeah.
And I think.
I did not want to write scripts.
You did not want to write scripts.
I think props to you.
You have carried the team for the past couple weeks.
And finally I was like, fuck this.
I need to sound like the smart one on this podcast.
So I need to write a script.
It's not hard to do, Katelyn,
when you're paired up with me.
But no, I think you are great at your off the cuff insights
and I'm the research guy.
It's just like our normal, you know, business.
I think it works out well.
I think it works out really, really well.
But yes, congratulations to you as well.
It has not been easy two years putting these out
because we run a business on the side,
a small business trying to grow that.
So taking the little time on a Friday
has always been delightful with you.
Agreed.
Well, shit.
I did not expect this mini-ros
to turn into a high five congratulations fish bomb session.
But here we are.
It's just like the regular Comedy Central roast.
They always end with like, I love you, James Franco.
Yeah, you're the best, blah, blah, blah.
So that's how we'll cap that off as well.
All right, well, let's get into it.
Unless you have another one to throw at me.
You got another one?
Well, actually the one that I also thought of
was one that you already mentioned
where you have filler words or it's like, oh, yeah.
Like you cannot end a sentence to save your life.
Nope, nope.
No.
And you always have to have the last word
where it's like, even if that word doesn't make it,
even if it were past it,
it's kind of like the people you see in the street
and you're like, bye, bye, bye, bye, no, bye.
Oh yeah.
You can't just walk away.
I have the mid, no, I have the Midwest goodbye.
It takes me, I have to start my goodbyes at a party
about 45 minutes before I want to leave, you know?
Like it is like excruciating
because I'm chatting away.
I don't know, I don't know.
The dance of conversation, Caitlin,
look at me getting in the last word on your roast.
And I will roast myself.
Something that I have heard
besides my long pause in thought is
I do pop my piece
on this microphone.
Yeah, well, you have like the nice,
I've been doing it too, you know, we're not,
once we start making money on this.
We're intermediate podcasters.
Yeah, we do it for the fun of it, for the joy.
We do, and because we're interested,
we're interested in the marketers who came before us.
So let's get into it.
Let's talk Gatorade.
All right, we're about to get into Gatorade's
successful marketing strategies in the beverage industry.
Gatorade is owned by PepsiCo.
Did you know that?
Yes, why did you know that?
Yes, we did.
We talked about it at Cokeverse Pepsi podcast, yeah.
Pepe.
Gatorade owned by PepsiCo dominates the sports drink market
with around 70 to 80% of the market share globally.
I know, and I was gonna say,
my screen.
I was gonna ask you,
we did cover Pepsi versus Coke,
and in one of our previous podcasts,
and do you remember which company came out on top?
It was Pepsi, right?
It was Pepsi.
I had a significant amount.
Yeah, I see.
Yeah, and it kind of depends, right?
Like if you're into the branding
where Coke goes very traditional,
Coke comes out on top, but financially it is Pepsi.
And honestly, I would attribute a lot of this
to Gatorade's success.
Oh, really?
I would, I mean, Gatorade owns 70%, 80%
of the sports drink market.
Yeah, that's a great point.
What do you think the others are?
There's two.
Powerade.
Yup.
Because that's my personal favorite.
I love a good blue Powerade.
There's another one.
Is it kind of new?
Or is it a pretty established one?
It's new.
Body armor?
Yeah.
I know, I'm surprised you knew that.
Do you like body armor?
I could see the bottles.
It's got like, you know, I just didn't know the name.
It's got like that metallic kind of like
underlay behind the brand.
Yeah.
So the origin story of Gatorade, do you know it?
I think everyone knows it.
Yeah, was it?
Well, you wrote the script, but it was founded
at the University of Florida, right?
Sure was.
Developed in 1965 at the University of Florida.
The University of Florida football coach,
Dwayne Douglas, was starting to observe
unusual water weight loss in players
without increased urination.
So he's like, where is all this weight disappearing to?
So he went over to the res...
Can we take a pause?
How does he know without peeing?
Yeah, how was he measuring the urination?
Yeah, I mean, I could have gone that.
I could have gone down that road, but I chose not to.
So...
Okay, you know.
It's part of the story.
You just don't ask questions.
Okay.
So he went to their research department
and asked Dr. Robert Cade to solve this issue of dehydration.
So he came up with the formula of Gatorade.
And the initial formula was just aimed to help these athletes,
these football players perform better in hot
and humid conditions being that they're in Florida
by replenishing lost electrolytes and carbohydrates.
The first version of Gatorade was water,
salt, and a bit of sugar,
which was pretty repulsive actually
to the majority of people who drank it,
but they continued to drink it because it worked.
And then Dr. Cade's wife, Mary,
snaps for Mary, suggested,
hey, why don't you add a bit of lemon juice
to improve the taste of the solution?
Thus, Gatorade's first flavors were orange and lemon lime,
which really became iconic and synonymous
with the brand's identity.
And of course I had to look,
my branding brain was like, who designed the logo?
Did they go outside?
Did they hire a marketer?
No, the original logo was designed by the secretary,
Beverly Gagliardi at the University of Florida's
College of Medicine.
And no, she was not compensated for her design.
She's a regular Pan Beasley.
Yeah, yeah.
The G is obviously Gator's
and the lightning bolt is energy, speed.
And what's true is that it's really remained
a hallmark of the brand.
So I think it's just insane that this was created
by not a designer, not a marketing company,
which I think also is a little,
I like to laugh at creative agencies and marketing agencies
because they put so much weight on logos
and so much research and so many focus groups.
And there's like little tiny tweaks being,
you know, the legendary joke of creative agencies
is can you make the logo bigger?
And really it's like the two most legendary logos
were off the cuff, just do it,
Nike's and Gatorade's.
Yeah, and both of them were,
I mean, one wasn't, was not compensated at all at Gatorade
and then Nike was like, what, 100 bucks or something like that?
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
That is crazy.
Do you feel that as a creative?
Do you like, eat in the creative world, you know?
Yeah.
Wait, feel what?
Feel that some of the most successful brands
were produced basically for free,
if not essentially for free.
And like, does that, I guess it's just,
it's a hard world for me because it's so subjective, right?
Like these are, people will pay in the tens of thousands
of dollars for a logo that doesn't do much difference, right?
Well, I think that the one I go back to is Pepsi's logo
and how they spent something,
I might be misplacing a zero,
but it's either between two or $20 million
on their rebrand that they ended up doing nothing with.
And their rebrand brand was so fucking simple.
It was like the curvature of the S
like became a little bit more deep or something.
And that cost them billions of dollars for the rebrand.
And, you know, we look at this too, like over the years,
I don't know, I'm always gonna be a Nordstrom advocate.
I love Nordstrom.
Love their brand, love what they,
they, they love their brand
and I love what they stand for customer service wise.
But their logo kind of took on many renditions
over the years.
I don't know how many, how much money they put into it,
but it's like every so often they update the fonts,
which is okay.
This Pepsi company, millions of dollars.
So I just don't think like creatives
take themselves too seriously.
Like I will be the first to say that.
And I've had creative directors above me
that I've worked under that are, you know, horrible
to work for because they put so much weight on creative
and they think they're the hero of the show.
And it's like, you're barely it, you're barely it.
You're a cog in the wheel.
Yeah, your piece of the puzzle, right?
So, I mean, but to counter that is like
that it is just so subjective.
It's hard.
It's like the art world, right?
Like it's like, it's the same thing.
A print, a painting could be worth five bucks.
That's a beautifully done and a painting of a red square
could be worth $25 million, right?
Like it's so subjective.
So that's the difficulty of it, right?
I love that because we're going to kind of touch on that
towards the end where it's like,
there are so many outliers that go into the success
of a brand that to put all this money into a logo
or to put all this weight on a logo is really silly
because it's timing, it's right place, it's, you know,
market, it's everything.
There's so marketing, there's so many things
that could make a brand, make or break a brand.
So let's go into the early marketing campaigns.
Gatorade was credited.
Yes, question.
Oh, sorry, sorry.
I do have one question about Gatorade before we get going.
You said the ingredients of Gatorade.
Is it like Coca-Cola now where it's a secret recipe
and they don't tell people what they put into it,
like Coke and Pepsi, or is it pretty much open?
Like, is it still just basically, do you know?
Like the basic thing is the same?
No, why does that matter to you?
I was just curious, because it's like,
it feels like it's they own 80% of the market share,
but people know what the contents are,
why hasn't someone come along to like replicate?
Well, do you think PowerAid did replicate it?
I think that's the same drink.
I think it tastes a little different.
I think both of them, yeah,
I think it tastes a little different, you know?
It's, I compare it to Coke and Pepsi, right?
Like they're both colas, but they taste a little different.
A little different.
There's little subtleties in there.
Interesting.
Yeah, my research didn't come up with that,
where the ingredient list is hidden, but.
My line of inquiry.
No, I like it, I like it, keeping me on my toes.
So it was developed in 65,
and then the Gators go on to win the Orange Bowl in 67,
and Gatorade was largely credited for this win,
and that was kind of the first introduction to Gatorade.
Not long after, in 67, Stokely Van Camp,
a food and beverage company,
secured the rights to Gatorade from Dr. Cade
and his colleagues, including the rights to the formula,
branding, and commercialization of the product.
SVC saw the opportunity to market Gatorade
as a sports drink that could benefit athletes
across various sports, which I think is really smart,
not just football, and so they're branching out.
And not really, this partnership really marked
the beginning of Gatorade's journey
from kind of a scientific brood in the basement
university developed beverage
to a widely recognized global brand.
So, Zach, before we get into that,
how would you take this from the basement
of the University of Florida to market
now that it's a commercial product?
How would you take it to market?
Well, I think...
What would you lean into?
The first thing that I would do,
I think it's important that you talked about
Florida winning the championship.
I think it's PR, right?
Like, I think the base to sell anything to athletes
or people competing athletically is to be the best,
to win championships, to succeed,
and you use this Florida as a model.
Like, this was their Michael Jordan at halftime,
Michael's secret juice or whatever.
Like, it was in Space Jam, right?
Like, it was like, they drank this
and they won a championship.
The champion, fill your body, you know?
I think leverage that PR, I guess, is what I would do.
Leverage that PR totally,
and take the next step into athlete endorsement.
So, that was a big piece of the pie.
So, they began targeting athletes,
particularly in the University of Florida
football team, the Gators.
And one of the earliest endorsements
came from football player, Joe Namath.
Namath.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
In the 1960s.
Tell us about Joe.
I didn't care to look him up.
Very famous quarterback.
Quarterback.
Taking the Jets.
He won a bunch of Super Bowl titles.
That's all I need to know.
Yeah.
He was like...
Like, literally say no more.
Okay.
I started going down.
I started, it was exactly where I can't finish a sentence.
I'm catching myself now.
And you're like, say no more, Zach.
Say no more.
And I'm like, oh yeah, he wore for coats.
And yeah, I'm going into depth.
I mean, if you were going to talk fashion,
I would have let you continue.
But I knew you were going into stats,
and I was like, I could care less.
I just wanted to know what he did,
and what team he played for.
Well, in the 1973 season,
Joe made his food for 295.
Yeah, no, I'm good.
I'm good.
You got me.
You got me that one.
So, athlete endorsements was a piece of their pie,
their marketing campaigns.
Then the involvement in sports events.
Again, leveraging that win.
They often started sponsoring events,
gaining visibility,
and creating a strong association
between the brand and sports performance.
For instance, Gatorade became the official sports drink
of the National Football League in 1969.
And you know what's crazy to me
is just how quickly this happened.
It was developed in 65,
and by 69 they are literally the sports drink of the NFL.
Yeah.
You know?
That's very, yeah, that's fascinating.
So that's number two.
Sports events, endorsed athletes.
Number three, educational seminars.
So they're really leaning into the science of it.
Hey, this was developed by a scientist
in to really reinvigorate electrolytes
and your nutrition.
So they conducted educational seminars
and presentations for coaches, athletes,
and sports teams really selling this electrolytes.
Interesting.
Piece of the puzzle.
And of course they're sharing scientific insights.
So data really helps make their claims.
And they started to position themselves
as a trusted source of information.
Yeah.
Do you feel in your research
that this has gone like the pharmaceutical route
where it's just like very focused research
to deliver a certain message?
Or is it true like, you know,
control tests that are like,
yeah, you perform better with this stuff?
I think a combination of both.
And I'm actually really happy that you're pausing here
because I was gonna pause here too
and ask you what you think
of the scientific messaging approach.
And also like, would this work with consumers today?
Would this resonate with consumers?
Because you bring up pharmaceuticals.
And I think that's a really good point.
And this isn't a trick question.
So, you know, do you really think that this could resonate?
And if you wanna pause and think.
No.
No, I'm off the cuff, Kailin.
My gut is that,
because I'm trying to think back
because I still see Gatorade commercials today, right?
They're still very prominent.
And I'm thinking back to their messaging
in these recent ones.
And there still is kind of that undercurrent of science.
Like I'm thinking of the imagery they use a lot of times.
And it's like athletes running on a treadmill
with like the mask over it,
like the oxygen mask over them.
They got all these wires hooked up to them.
You know?
And it's like, it's not really talking about.
It's just kind of like replenish what you lose.
Like they're not the, as far as the messaging is not like,
here are the specific things that we replenish.
It's like just replenish,
but the imagery is very still white lab coats,
people watching athletes sweat and run on a treadmill.
So I think-
That's such a good point.
It's like such an inception where it's like,
you're putting something on the screen
that says a very different message
than the actual message.
Where it's just like the message is replenish
what you've lost,
but this guy is tied up to chords.
And he's, they have a scientist checking off little check boxes
on a clipboard.
I think that's a great example.
So do you think that was effective?
I think it would be still effective.
Yeah.
Cause I'm even thinking to sports in general,
and there's so much science behind it now.
Like they, they employed like not only like
analyzing player performance of whatever kind of sport,
but like physiotherapy,
like making sure that players can play the longest that,
like there's sports has become very science
and analytics based.
So the fact that Gatorade is still associated
with a lot of these sporting events
just kind of like adds that layer as well.
Yeah.
I think I like that because I was actually
going to take it differently.
And I was going to say it wouldn't be super effective
for consumers because I was looking at the average consumer.
Maybe you were looking at someone who cares about sports
because I see us being just inundated
with nutritional information.
And I mean, we're inundated with products.
Our entire life is an advertisement.
We're living inside of an advertisement.
And so we're much more,
I do like to give the consumer the benefit of the Dow.
I think they are more aware.
And they're smarter to these scientific claims.
Also, there's documentaries coming out
about the food and beverage industry
where like these scientific claims
don't actually mean anything.
Like there's no scientist making these claims.
It's just like you submit a little email to somebody
and they give you this stamp of approval,
but there's no like research.
Yeah.
And I think that's a really good point honestly.
You know, I think it's,
let me try to formulate my words.
Like when you explained the Gatorade actual,
the first thing where it's like salt and sugar
and lime juice with water,
it's like, what the fuck does that,
like I assumed there was like electrolytes
and all of these nutrients,
almost like the yogurt stuff that helps you.
It's just salt.
I thought there was packed with different things.
It's just salt and sugar and water and flavoring.
And I'm like, yeah, they told, I totally bought into that.
So I think you're right.
It's kind of, it brings me back to our Got Milk campaign
where it's like, you can only get this calcium from milk
and really a tablespoon of basil
can give you more calcium than milk gives.
And they just framed it so well where it's like,
oh my God, am I gonna die?
Are my bones gonna crumble to dust if I don't have calcium?
Cause that's what they kind of,
they put, they instilled that fear into you.
And maybe Gatorade is not instilling fear,
but it is kind of like, you need electrolytes,
you need electrolytes and just like putting so much weight
on this word electrolytes.
And then when you really look at the formula,
you're like, what are these electrolytes?
Where are they?
Where are the electrolytes?
And you're like, oh, it's just salt.
What is an electrolyte?
I don't even know.
What is an electrolyte?
I don't even know.
Like I just feel like I need them.
I'm sweating out, I need them.
I don't know.
Totally, totally.
As soon as I sweat, I'm like,
I need to replenish my electrolytes.
That is scary.
Now that we're like really talking about this,
this is how scary our lives are.
We have been so inundated with advertising
that we take it as Bible.
Yeah, yeah.
We've been, the tables have turned,
we've been exposing manipulation for so long
and now we're like, oh fuck.
We've been manipulating.
Yeah, we've been manipulated.
No, I think you're right.
Like I have no idea.
Now that we're done.
And I'll wake up, like I'll go to a really hard workout class
and I'll wake up the next morning,
like feeling like shit and I'll credit it
to me not drinking enough electrolytes.
Like I'm like, I did not replenish my electrolytes
last night after the class.
Like it's crazy how inundated, brainwashed,
we're sheep, Zach.
All right.
All for consumerism, you know.
So just one last thing that they really leaned into
was the differentiation from water,
which is actually what we were just kind of riffing on
and talking about, but Gatorade's marketing
highlighted the benefits of its formulation
compared to just drinking water,
which actually in the 60s was a real thing
for coaches of athletes.
They said like water will give you nausea and cramps.
I don't know this to be true,
but that was even in the 60s.
So Gatorade just kind of like leaned into this adage.
I think there is maybe so.
Yeah, yeah, I think I have no idea.
That theory, theory.
That theory.
So I think that's fair,
because like, you know, when you're training every day,
you're drinking lots of fluids
and maybe you can get more with less
with like the Gatorade stuff, you know,
like if it has that extra sugar and salt,
like you can drink less of it
because I think it's just the amount of fluids, right?
Like if you get weighed down
because you're chugging water.
That's true.
I mean, did you see that news story over the weekend
where a mother died from drinking 60 ounces in 20 minutes,
which actually doesn't seem like that much water to me.
No, but like just,
We don't need to get into that.
Throw it down.
Yeah, throw it down.
But I think like that weighing down of like water
because you're replenishing so much,
that might have something,
but I'm trying to give Gatorade the benefit of the doubt now.
I'm a little salty about it.
I have some electrolytes about Gatorade now.
So we're in the 1970s now
and I want to talk about the trademark
and ownership discussion because this was a big one.
And I just found like it seems obvious
that there would be some disputes,
but it's really interesting to me
because I can't think of another product,
a consumer product that has this type of trademark
and ownership issues.
So let me just get into it.
The development of Gatorade was initiated
with the support of a federal research grant.
So the University of Florida,
when it started having commercial success,
obviously wanted a piece of the pie.
And so it asserted its claim to ownership rights
and they wanted to share the royalties generated by Gatorade.
So there was a lot of disputes there.
The university argued that its involvement
in funding and facilitating the research
gave it a stake in the product's commercial success.
And of course, the researchers who worked on developing
Gatorade also wanted a stake in that market.
And they sought recognition and compensation
for their efforts as well as the potential
financial benefits.
The ownership and royalty disputes were resolved
through negotiations and legal agreements three years later.
And in 1973, a settlement was reached
allocating a portion of Gatorade's royalties
to the University of Florida.
The university was granted a 20% share of the royalties.
20%?
And as of my research,
it is still collecting a 20% share.
Wow.
But get this.
The last real concrete number I could find was,
as of 2009, the university had received more than $150 million
from its share of Gatorade royalties.
That seems low.
Thank you.
Yes.
I mean, from the 60s to the, what, 2009,
100, I would think $150 million a year.
Yeah, at the least, right?
So I don't know if this number is just like very hard to find.
Also, from somebody who does not participate
in college sports, does not participate in sports at all.
From the outside, I think I would have heard
about University of Florida being a really wealthy college.
Because again, from the outside,
I hear about the University of Oregon,
the University of Oregon being a really wealthy college
and how they get the luxury of updating their new uniforms
once a year because of Nike being there.
But I don't hear about University of Florida.
Yeah, I think it's because you're a West Coast person,
Caitlin.
I think, yeah, so Florida, it's always been big.
I think I've been to the campus, it is gorgeous.
It does give me, like they have very highly updated facilities
like throughout it.
And they're pretty big in college sports.
I wouldn't say they're massive.
University of Oregon is definitely a more prominent name
in college sports than University of Florida,
but the campus is really nice.
I think they invest a lot in whatever facilities they want.
Well, and I think now,
this is my limited college sports knowledge,
but I think now that you can pay college players,
I wonder if we're gonna see the University of Florida
becoming a bigger name in college sports.
So the school can't pay the players,
but they can take sponsorship deals.
Right, okay, thanks for clarifying that.
Yeah, so like, yeah, probably there's gonna be like,
people go into like big colleges
because it's University of Florida
and you're gonna deal with whatever local campus shop,
sandwich shop or whatever to be like, hey,
well, no, I'm thinking Gatorade.
You think Gatorade's going to sponsor?
I don't think they're gonna go into college athletes,
unless there's like a big college athlete,
unless it's like a super big, super popular college athlete.
I don't think they're gonna dabble in that.
I mean, when you're working with like the likes
of like LeBron James and-
Totally, good point.
And like these big name pro players like-
Good point, good point, good point.
I am like speaking way outside of my realm here.
So I'm gonna backtrack.
I'm just theorizing too.
No, I'm just theorizing too.
Cause like there's this LSU gymnast, she's a gymnast,
college gymnast, $4.5 million in endorsement deals last year.
Is she the blonde girl?
Yeah, I think so.
You know who I'm talking about, right?
So Gatorade might dabble in that
because there's such a big following, you know,
and like be like, hey, we can sponsor this gymnast,
but I don't think there are ones like that.
So where was that?
I was, so they resolved the disputes, Gatorade,
sorry, University of Florida now gets 20% of the royalties.
And of course I was curious if Dr. Kade
got any of those royalties and Dr. Kade
and his team did get some of those royalties from whatever.
Like the number is really, really not disclosed anywhere.
So I went to my favorite chat GPT and said,
is Dr. Kade rich?
And they said, no, he's not rich.
So I think like, I mean, if you think about it,
$150 million over the course of four years is...
And he only gets a little piece of the pie.
Like it's kind of like those royalty checks
that actors are showing, you know,
like $0.39 from, yeah.
But my question to you is,
and I don't know if you'll have the answer,
but like, didn't the beverage company buy the rights to it?
Like, didn't they get compensated for the rights to use it?
So why are they coming back and saying,
oh, now you're making lots of money.
I want a piece of this.
No, I agree.
Oh, you sold me the rights, I bought it, you know?
Like that's what I would say.
It makes the University of Florida look thirsty
and it makes Dr. K look thirsty, I know.
Oh!
It's an electrolytes University of Florida.
Because yeah, like they wouldn't get in, obviously.
I mean, this is really just so obvious,
but they wouldn't give a shit.
Had Gatorade just been a regular product on the shelves
of whatever small town SVC came from.
Yeah, I agree.
Like that just seems, I feel like maybe the SVC company
didn't do their homework enough to like secure the rights.
Right?
Like maybe there was some wiggle room
because clearly Florida won, but it's like.
Well, let's get into that.
So in the 80s, the SVC actually faced financial challenges
which is a little shocking considering they just took
on Gatorade and that led to its acquisition
by Quaker Oats Company in 1983 for $220 million.
Which obviously this acquisition really marked
a pivotal turn in Gatorade because now they have access
to their extensive distribution and network
and resources and marketing teams
and the financial backing.
All the oatmeal, all the oatmeal
their little bellies can handle.
So from there in the 80s, that's when Gatorade's distribution,
they really focused on distribution
and they started selling overseas.
So it ventured into Canada, then regions of Asia,
then South America, then Europe and then Australia.
And then they started introducing various flavors
including blueberry, pineapple and others
which I have never run into a pineapple Gatorade
but I need to.
Pineapple's one of my favorite.
I feel like that.
Really?
Yeah.
I love pineapple.
Who doesn't love pineapple?
It's the best fruit.
I love eating a pineapple.
I love eating pineapple.
I would say.
And the juice though.
Yeah.
Oh, come on.
Yeah.
You need to go to a store and get a can of pineapple
and drink the juice.
Out of the can?
Yeah.
That's where you get it.
That's where you get the juice.
I can't judge too much.
Unless you have a juice.
I do that with like pickle jar.
It's like the pickle brown.
Yeah.
Just like, yeah, so good.
So good.
Okay.
I backtrack on that.
So then,
so now we're at, in the 90s,
they distributed to Australia.
And then they came up with the Michael Jordan B like
Mike campaign.
And we're gonna watch that commercial.
So.
Classic.
I'm gonna pause.
And because we're trying to start a YouTube channel,
I'm going to share my screen so viewers at home can see.
Shout out to YouTube.
I'm manipulating the masses podcast.
Look it up, follow, do everything.
But don't do that yet because we haven't gotten anything up.
Have we?
Yeah.
We have one video right now.
Do we?
Really?
Yeah.
Well done.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Like we said, we're running a business doing a hour long
video editing session is not an easy task.
And I'm gonna, can you hear my screen?
Okay. So now I'm sharing.
Can you hear it?
Yeah. This does not look like the Michael Jordan commercial.
Commercial for the commercial.
Oh, it's the ad.
It's the ad.
Christ.
Are you new?
I thought you had a Q-Dub.
I did have a Q-Dub, but you know,
you know YouTube does its things and it resets.
Okay. Ready?
Okay. Okay. Let's talk about your algorithm though.
What do you got? What's the ad for improve your videos fast?
Look at you, Caitlin.
I'm so curious what you get served on your ad.
Be like Mike.
Drink Gatorade.
I did notice in their packaging,
are they glass bottles at this time?
Are they like?
I know, I noticed that too.
Yeah.
Huh. That seems a lot more eco-friendly than the plastic
shit that they have now.
That everyone has.
What are your thoughts about it?
Being a not.
I love it.
I think it has a catchy jingle.
It has everything that a good marketing campaign should.
It has celebrity endorsement.
It has inspiration.
It has a catchy jingle.
I don't know about the be like Mike drink Gatorade phrase.
Like I think be like Mike.
I mean, obviously it's kind of legendary, right?
You know the campaign be like Mike.
Did you know the song?
Oh yeah. I was a, I was a,
I grew up a Chicago Bulls fan.
So yep. I'm very familiar with that.
Okay. Yeah.
So I loved it.
I thought it was inspirational.
And you know, you have kids in the mix.
People love a good kid.
Crazy.
What do you think?
No.
I think it's a terrific commercial too.
I think what they did well is what we've been,
as far as the imagery goes,
is what we've been talking about
where it intercuts with him making classic shots,
you know, winning games.
Like that is kind of the undercurrent of it.
But what I do love about this commercial specifically
is there are a few shots of him just like,
he misses the ball and it hits his head, you know?
And he's like laughing, right?
He's not like this infallible like super human being.
He, they make him really approachable
and like fun to be around.
He's like playing with kids and like tipping the ball up.
And so be like Mike seems attainable, right?
I just, that's what they did really well is like,
it's not like be like this illustrious world champion athlete.
Just be like Mike, anybody can do that.
So Drink Gatorade, that's the first step.
I like that.
And you talked about like him, they splice.
They do a good job of splicing
between him acting really goofy on the playground with kids
where it's like, oh, that's really achievable.
That's, he's in my backyard.
And then him on the NBA courts, just sinking baskets.
Just throw in touchdowns.
And I did, so they have to be like Mike's slogan,
but on their bottles it says thirst quencher.
And like, I thought about that too.
I was like, what a good, but like a quench.
Like what a good word to use for a sports drink.
Like it's not just like it cures it, it's like it quenches it.
Like what a weird word.
You say that so aggressively.
How else do you say it?
Try to say quench not aggressively.
And it sounds weird.
I know.
And actually in my research, I did come across
like that was technically their first campaign
was thirst quencher.
But there just wasn't really anything interesting
to talk about it besides the word quench apparently.
Quench.
Okay, let's go into a campaign they ran in the 2000s.
It's called, is it in you?
Question mark.
And let's just get into it and we can discuss.
So pause.
Oh, I love that.
I love that shit.
Yeah, hold on. Yeah.
Oh God.
Oh, why do you say?
Oh, the imagery in that one is just rough for me.
Why?
I think it's showcasing the colors black and white
for those of you listening.
It's like black and white and then the sweat
or the things coming out of the people are colored
in Gatorade, which is fine.
Like they had a dude with like sweat marks down his back
that were purple.
That's like fix, but they have one where the dude
is crying green.
Like it's crying like acidic tears.
It's just, you gotta be very like one where it's cut
on his nose and his blood is blue.
Like dude, just like, I think it is.
No.
And plus being like a teenage boy at this time
where it's, is it in you?
Come on. Like that is just fodder for terrible,
terrible sexualized jokes.
I don't know.
Yeah.
So this imagery is, I thought it was pretty iconic
because this is the same imagery that they used to this day.
And to your point though, they did, they have dialed it down.
Like I don't think they have blood, blue blood anymore
or like tears.
Like it's strictly comes as sweat.
But I think that there is a lot of play on words here.
Is it in you?
The Gatorade is coming out as like power.
It's coming out in the form of your blood, sweat and tears.
I do like the intensity of it.
I personally do, but I don't know if it resonates
with everybody because we go from like this really happy
jingle with be like Mike, where it's like very inspiring.
You're really focusing on Michael Jordan and him being
a normal human being to this like athletes are gods.
And in order for you to be a God,
you must drink Gatorade kind of mental like aggression.
Yeah. Yeah.
I'd be, and I could look it up if you don't have it right off.
Do you know when Powerade was launched?
Like, no.
Cause I'm almost thinking like if that was the time.
Yeah. So they released Powerade in 1987, right?
And it started to grow to prominence.
So maybe I mean, by the, when the, when that be like Mike,
there was just no real competition
in the sports drink market.
Maybe they have to change it to be like,
be the powerful person because they're combating
against a growing competitor.
And they're like, we are the ultimate.
Yeah.
Well, I also, I think you might be right actually.
It's like for a long time they held the market.
There was, there was nobody else.
And I mean, right now they still hold the market.
Yeah. Yeah.
They essentially invented, they did.
They invented the sports drink market.
So I think that they really had a lot of room to be fun
and a lot of room to play around.
And they could have any athlete they wanted
because of all the endorsements they were getting
from the win, from the Gators.
And then yeah, you might be right.
They might focus to like, hey, we're better
than the other aid out there.
Yep. Yep.
Instead of.
So I want to go into what I consider a flop of a campaign.
It's called What's G?
And this came out in 2006.
And I'm going to play it just a second.
Oh, I love that shit.
What's G?
Yeah.
One word.
Dear, one word.
Why?
First of all, do you recognize the narrator?
Yeah, Lil Wayne.
How do you, how do you miss that?
Yeah. How do you miss that voice?
But, and especially having him say like, what's G?
You know, like he references G a lot.
You know, that just felt like to put it plain.
To try hard.
For those of you listening at home.
Yeah.
The imagery of that was just like a scan
of all of these endorsements that they have,
like all of these famous athletes and people that they have.
And they're just like panning through all of them.
At one point.
Yeah.
And they just make a, make an appearance.
No, you have Derek Jeter.
You have the Jabalwakis.
I think you have Dwayne Wade.
You have Serena.
Muhammad Ali.
Yeah.
Candace Parker.
There was a lot of like big athletes,
but it just felt like, yeah, I think you're right.
That one was a flop.
It's cause that is more like,
here's all the people that use our drink.
Maybe it was just prior to the,
I think it works well to say,
here's the benefits you're going to get
from drinking Gatorade.
They're prior stuff.
Or rather than here's just all the people that we pay
to be in the commercial.
You know?
Well, not only that, it's a try hard.
It's like, hey, how can we make Gatorade cool?
Oh, I know.
Let's get Lil Wayne to narrate it.
It's like, at some point there.
So first of all, I actually,
there's an aspect of that campaign that I appreciate
because they are in another rendition.
They have like politicians and they have like,
you know, be the best that you can be.
It doesn't matter if you have,
why are you making that face?
They have politicians in there?
I think they have Warren Buffett in there.
They have like the president.
I don't know.
They have, it's not like a whole,
they're intertwined.
Where it's not like a whole lineup of athletes.
And so I appreciate that they're trying to expand
beyond the athlete demographic,
which I think it has been successful,
but this campaign particularly just felt like a try hard.
Also, like what's G?
Who the fuck cares?
Like nobody asked.
You don't need to explain yourself on what's G.
Like maybe if you didn't,
maybe if your name didn't resonate with us,
but it already resonates.
There's no reason to make that campaign.
You know, it's just,
and I think it also piggybacks off of the intensity
of the last campaign that we just saw,
where it's like so much,
like let's go back to something fun and inspirational.
So was this due to the fact that they stopped listing
Gatorade on their bottles
and they just started doing the G?
Was this like what triggered it?
Like just saying,
hey, we can now brand ourselves with just the G
without completely spelling out Gatorade, you know?
You might be right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You might be right.
It could have been the foray.
But did we really need that?
Like I think we're smart.
Like don't, we're smart people.
We can make the jump,
the giant leap from Gatorade to G with the lightning bolt.
Yeah, I think that's another case of like marketing,
just being self-indulgent and being like,
oh, we're like gonna change the bottles.
We have to come up with a complete campaign
to back up that decision.
Yeah, it's self-indulgent, I think.
And if you are, like make it fun.
Just be like, hey, we got sick of saying Gatorade
or you know, whatever, like that this is a great example
of where creatives are taking themselves way too seriously.
Okay.
I also want to go over some legendary flops.
So, and this has to do with some marketing,
it has to do with some product expansion.
Can you write off the cuff, think of anything
that any product that Gatorade released
that just did not resonate with you?
Propel, Gatorade Propel is one that I don't really enjoy.
Okay, I think Propel is a separate brand.
I don't think it's not labeled Gatorade Propel, no.
Is it not?
It's like-
Because I actually like Propel.
It is Gatorade Propel.
But maybe, no, it did do an offshoot.
But it started with Gatorade.
Okay, so Propel, anything else?
Let me think.
I'm fishing.
They have those like gummy, chewy stuff now.
Yeah.
I don't, like that feels like a flop.
I don't know, because it's relatively new,
I don't know, but they've released Gatorade
pedialight stuff for hangovers.
Like they have like-
We know I actually really like those.
I love them because they're so salty.
I love salty things.
They are so salty.
No, I really like those.
I don't know how successful they are, but you're right.
I think it's a great move,
because like get drinking at Gatorade after a hangover,
like when you're hungover is like, boom,
like you're feeling better and just to do it for a specific,
like without a wink and a nod being like, hey, buy this.
You know, I think it's a good move.
Yeah, I think everyone associates electrolytes
with a hangover now.
There's like two markets.
It's you're an athlete or you're hungover.
Or you're hungover.
So yeah, they leaned into that.
What is an electrolyte that it takes out on both ends?
What is an electrolyte?
What does it do that when you drink too much
and you work too hard that you're losing electrolyte?
What is an electrolyte?
Get a sign.
It's a question of the century.
So this one was the G2.
Do you remember the G2 and G2 natural?
So Gatorade introduced G2 in 2007 as a lower calorie option
for health conscious consumers.
Well, the intention was to provide a healthy alternative.
G2 sales did not meet expectations.
And the market did not respond as favorably
to the taste and the formulation of G2.
And I think this is an example of them just kind of reaching
an audience that they're not really meant to reach.
They're meant to reach athletes.
Who are already health conscious?
What are you trying to do?
They're already health conscious people.
They work out every day.
What are you doing trying to get a lower calorie health
count?
What market are you trying to reach?
Here's the thing.
And here's what they did do well is Gatorade zeros,
where I personally don't like how sweet Gatorades are.
And Gatorade zeros take out all of those extra sugars.
And they tried to do something with G2 that was very similar.
But it's like, if you already have G0 or Gatorade zero,
and you already have Gatorade, why create a middle ground?
You're just creating gray area for everybody.
And then they did try to do G2 natural, which they just
infused with stevia.
Is it stevia or stevia?
No, it's stevia.
I'm going to call it stevia.
So just natural versions of sweetener
instead of the corn syrup that they've used.
So then tiger focused.
Do you remember this at all?
Like the golfer, like Tiger Woods?
Yeah, Tiger Woods.
Tiger Woods partnered up with Gatorade
to release Tiger Focus.
And if you don't remember it, and I don't remember it,
it was a flop.
Because this, Tiger was at the peak of his success.
And this was in the mid 2000s, Gatorade
launched a product called Tiger Focus, which was indoors.
Sorry, you can cut that out.
I just said that.
It was a product that was marketed
as a beverage that could improve mental focus and concentration.
But it received some criticism for potentially promoting
an unhealthy message by suggesting
that a beverage could replace the need for proper nutrition
and rest.
But also, I want to mention that the other backlash
was that Tiger had some serious personal issues
during the time of this release.
And they just marched forward with it.
And everybody at that time was like,
I don't know how I feel.
I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about Tiger Woods.
So obviously, I'm not buying this.
So yeah, there's so much.
Yeah.
And I do think that kind of stuff.
Maybe it was a little late to the game,
but that kind of stuff is counterculture
to fighting the mental toughness that's ingrained
in many young athletes.
When they're growing up playing sports,
they ingrained mental toughness.
Like, don't show emotion.
You know, totally.
Like any.
Don't quit.
And it leans into that kind of mentality.
And I think by the time that release,
that idea was fading, right?
So a drink to making mental.
Then they had an organic product called Gatorade Organic.
And I think I don't even need to discuss this one.
It's just reaching an audience that it doesn't
need to be reaching.
You don't need to be in Whole Foods.
You don't.
You're Gatorade.
Yeah.
And you have 80% of the market share.
What are you trying to do?
For sports drinks.
Like, don't go into water.
You've specifically positioned yourself against water.
So don't try to go into water.
My feeling is like the base train of Gatorade,
the marketing, is just like a locomotive just moving on
its own that the marketing team's like,
I don't want to be fired.
Like, let's come up with another product.
Let's run another campaign.
You know?
Yeah.
Whoever the ad agency is, is like,
we got to earn our keep.
Like, let's suggest a new product.
I think more of like their R&D team.
But I don't see this as unusual.
Like, every product that has successes
tries to create spin-off products
to capture a little bit of a different, you know,
to kind of claw at a different market.
So they're trying to get a piece of the organic market.
They're trying to get a piece of the low-calorie market.
I get it.
But I think this is just a great example
of why companies need to be really, really focused
in what their next move is and really intentional
with not losing their current audience.
Their athletes are not going to,
they don't want an organic product.
They don't.
They're happy with what they have.
Maybe just make it like extra electrolytes or something.
Gatorade extra.
Yeah.
Yeah, there you go.
Well, they came out with those gummies that are like packed.
I don't know.
Like, they're just trying.
I do get the feeling that they're just reaching right now.
Okay, so then after the organic,
they came out with this campaign in 2016.
I think it was 2016.
When was Cam Newton like a thing?
That's about the time.
Yeah.
2016?
The only thing, I block out 2016
because of the political election,
but yeah, it just feels like there was,
that was his time.
So,
I'm going to share my personal favorite campaign.
Is it, are you being facetious or you're flop?
For various reasons, it's my favorite.
So, I'll let you explain to me why it's my favorite.
All right.
2016.
Do you know what, you can see why?
That's a good one.
And it leads to our conversation today, right?
Like, very, very funny.
It's funny.
I think that works a lot better.
But it's also isolating.
So, this campaign actually flopped
and had a lot of criticism because you have to sweat it
to get it is basically like nobody else can drink our
product.
So, what went from, I'm trying to capture a massive amount
of market appeal by going organic and low calorie
to basically like, fuck that, fuck those guys.
I'm going back to athletes and telling anybody
who doesn't even resemble an athlete
that they cannot drink my product.
Like, it's a little bit isolating.
I see where you're coming from,
but I'm also like, you know, that's just making fun of it.
Like, we all know Gatorade was a sports drink,
but we all know everybody gets it on a road trip
when you're just like chilling.
And like, it's, I think they were just trying
to talk to the authenticity of it,
but I see where you're coming from, you know?
I just thought it was funny because of how crude it is.
And the comments in the section were like,
this isn't real, this is fake.
Like, as if they thought that there was really
a live camp security footage of this person trying to buy.
Yeah, it was just like,
that's it, but that's the audience act.
Like, those are the people who are buying Gatorade.
So you really have to cater to people who will feel offended
because they didn't get a workout in today.
Okay, so moving right along,
not to make this podcast any longer
than it needs to be rebrand.
In 2010, it decided to do a rebrand
with a new logo and packaging
and the changes were met with backlash.
Really?
Yeah, and they just went back to it.
And I think, again, this is,
this is an example of the heritage of the brand
and people are going to feel personally connected to it.
So if you switch it up, it's kind of like,
oh, I have a great example of this actually.
In my ski town, Tahoe,
there's a huge resort called,
it was called Squaw Valley.
Squaw is a Native American term
and it actually has some derogatory meaning towards women.
And so, I mean, Squaw Valley has been in place.
They hosted the Olympics in the 60s.
Anyways, it's been in place forever.
I grew up there, all my friends grew up there.
This is the ski mountain to ski.
And they rebranded two years ago to Palisades.
And I have never seen backlash like this in my life.
There's people in that town
that wear T-shirts that said,
Squaw will always be Squaw or like, fuck Palisades
or whatever it is.
Like they have such intense control over the name Squaw
and over the brand Squaw.
They have such feelings of ownership over it
for some reason.
And I'm over here being like,
from a rebrand perspective,
they actually did a really great job.
Like it's a really fucking good logo and Palisades.
Who cares?
Just get on board with it and move on.
So the backlash that they faced was insane.
So back to Gatorade.
But here's my question to you as like the branding person.
No, here's my question for Gatorade too.
Like the Gatorade buckled and they were like,
all right, you guys don't like it, okay, we'll go back.
Right? At what point,
it doesn't matter what you change.
They make one update to Facebook and people are like,
oh, I don't like this.
I hate it.
Any change people are going to hate.
At what point do you just wait it out, bust through it?
Cause I guarantee you as far as your ski resort,
like in five years, those shirts will be on.
Nobody's going to be talking.
Yep.
Yeah, like you just gotta wait it out.
Like people will be like,
and then that audience just gets smaller and smaller
of the people being angry and you move on.
I completely agree with that.
Maybe where I see this as,
you talked about like the marketing team
and the advertising team being like,
fuck, we just need to come up with something else
because Gatorade's in the back doing so well.
Maybe let's try a rebrand.
So maybe that's the difference between a rebrand like Meta
where they're like, we're doing this with intent and purpose
because this is going to be the umbrella brand now.
And like this is just the way it is.
We need to make this pivot in order for the health
of the company versus Gatorade was like,
well, let's just try something to try it.
Maybe.
Yeah.
That's my theory.
Versus Twitter was just like, fuck it, today we're X.
Twitter.
High five with Twitter for the worst rebrand in history.
I just like, someone was like X
and they're like, yeah, let's draw an X
and everything is still tweet
or like just really happy.
Yeah.
I think maybe next week we're going to go into that
because now they're dropping,
they're Twitter's dropping in Google rankings.
Like you search Twitter
because they're going to just change their URL to X.com
or whatever.
Like they're now losing their own ranking
for their brand name, their former brand name.
Yeah, it's wild.
But that's one of the worst.
Oh yeah.
So I think at what point do you just judge through
at what point do you make the decision?
Like we've listened to you as a consumer base.
We're going to go back.
Like, do you as a brand admit failure and be like,
oh, we like you can frame it as like,
oh, we've heard your feedback.
We're going to go do this,
but otherwise just like ignore it in my opinion
and move on.
Like, I agree.
That's my, that's my,
if you had true intent with the rebrand
and you wanted to rebrand it for the health of the company,
then yeah, ignore the feedback you're getting.
People will get on board with it and it'll be fine.
They'll live another day.
For a brand, if it was a half baked idea,
then the brand should always admit ownership
or responsibility in my opinion.
So yeah, you can come out and be like,
oops, sorry, fucked up, going back.
I hear you.
That was a bad idea.
Don't know who it was.
Anyway, people just need to not take themselves so seriously.
It's just a rebrand for a sports drink, you guys.
Okay.
In 2022, they did come out with an energy drink,
which I don't remember at all.
I just, again, another market you don't,
you don't have to get into.
Unless it was like some sort of like,
maybe creatine pre-workout drink,
I could see them getting into.
Why haven't they done that?
And then finally, I didn't look much into this,
but they launched a digital platform called G-Active
and aimed at providing personalized training
and nutrition plans to athletes,
which I don't think is a bad idea.
I don't think that's a half bad idea,
but the platform offered video contact workouts
and hydration advice, which I'm sorry,
you don't need hydration advice,
but it struggled to gain traction
and compete with other established fitness and health apps.
So again, I just think this was like wrong time,
wrong place, Nike Fit already beat you to it,
like Peloton, you know,
all these things are already on the market
and you're just too late.
I think Gatorade could have done this
had they been first to market,
but Nike Fit was the first.
Nike Fit has been around forever.
So that's all I have.
I want to add another section into the podcast called,
Zach, what did we learn?
I learned quite a few things that I have,
first of all, I have no idea what electrolytes are.
I've learned that.
I did learn that Gatorade is still reaching
and feeling for some new markets,
even though they're dominating the sports drink market,
they're still looking for that.
And what's our analysis of that?
Like what's your opinion?
Stay in your lane.
Somewhat, I mean, here's my opinion of that,
is that they broke into the sports drink market.
They created it, which is why they're so successful.
It feels like they've lost that innovative touch
where they are breaking new ground.
It's like you said with the fitness app,
they were not first to market there.
They're not first to market
in the health conscious drink app.
They're not first to market in the energy drink market.
They're just trying to replicate
and they're, for me, relying too much on their brand name
to create new products rather than saying,
hey, there's some market available here
in the fitness realm that we can start to get into, right?
I think that's a big,
they've just kind of lost that innovative touch.
It's what happens when you get 80% market share.
You're just trying to either conserve that
or find new markets to get into.
Do you have an thought on that?
What were some successful marketing tactics
and what were some failures that we learned about?
I think a successful tactic is the underlying
scientific approach that Gatorade takes.
I think that is, I think that's successful, right?
We just trust that Gatorade is founded in a lab, right?
Like the scientists created Gatorade, right?
They made up the word electrolyte and we all went with it.
Yeah, like they, exactly.
And we're all like, yeah, I don't know what that is.
But they very much like founded it
in a lab, still made in a lab.
This is the drink to scientifically,
I think they do a successful thing with that.
Where I think they miss the mark unsuccessful is just,
and maybe this is the age of the influencer,
but they rely too much on endorsements now.
Like everybody knows that you're paying Muhammad Ali
to be there in your commercial.
The facade of being like Muhammad Ali,
Muhammad Ali who is going through a Parkinson's disease,
drinks Gatorade every day, that's what he is gone.
That is not there anymore.
So all of these endorsements,
I think are not gonna hit the same in the future.
Interesting.
I don't think we've relied too much on it.
Cause my feedback on the successful aspects of Gatorade
were get celebrity endorsements,
get somebody to stand behind you,
the scientific research for sure.
And then my third one was like really lean into your market,
find your market and stick with them.
And like give them what they want.
They don't want organic.
They don't want this gray area of a low calorie,
but not totally no calorie drink.
Like give them creatine, give them pre-workout,
give them all these things.
I just thought of another flop that I didn't mention was,
they had a three series Gatorade.
Do you remember this?
I remember it.
And you could buy it in stores.
It was three series.
It was step one, step two, step three.
Step one was before your workout.
Step two was during your workout.
And step three was after your workout.
Which was just chaos because you're going into a 7-Eleven
to buy a Gatorade.
And all of a sudden you're like, what the fuck?
Like which one do I buy?
And then you just resort back to just a regular Gatorade.
Like nobody is going into a 7-Eleven.
You have to think about where your products
are being sold to.
Like unless it's out of, even if you're out of gym,
you're not like, okay, I gotta take my step one.
Like you're choking down creatine powder in the car
before you do a step one Gatorade.
Just me?
No, okay.
That's you?
You did?
You did that?
Your workouts were crazy.
They're very intense.
Yeah, they are.
They are.
You need some electrolytes.
I know.
So those are my three points.
And then I mean, I think the science,
like it's interesting that you say
that that was a successful piece of it.
I think in part I agree with you.
But I think now 2023, so many people rely on science
and so many people rely on these like stamps of approval
by USDA and organic and farm fresh.
And you're like, this doesn't mean anything
to anybody anymore.
So I don't know if it could be as successful
in this day and age.
It may be we're on the precipice of the downfall
of Gatorade too because both marketing tactics
that have worked in the past endorsements
and relation to science are maybe becoming
a little too muddied moving forward.
So where do you pivot?
How do you take out?
Good point.
And Gatorade's scrambling to be like,
well, we pivot by entering new markets
and we're not going to be able to do that.
So I think Gatorade has a heritage
and a name that people are not going to move away from.
I mean, my husband will like only drink Gatorade.
Really?
Yeah, I think Gatorade has a heritage
and a name that people are not going to move away from.
I mean, my husband will like only drink Gatorade.
Which I think is such a college boy thing to do.
It is, it is.
Yeah, like, but he still drinks Gatorade zeros
because we're adults and we don't like sugar.
But yeah, he still drinks those.
I mean, for me, like I'm thinking anecdotally
and I'm not playing high level, but like rec league,
different leagues that I'm in,
everybody brings their water bottle.
I mean, I'm not playing high level
leagues that I'm in, everybody brings their water bottle.
Like there's nobody buying a Gatorade
and like bringing a plastic Gatorade to like,
everybody has a water bottle.
Everybody brings their own water bottle.
I know you don't drink it during, you drink it after.
You don't know what people are doing after.
Well, we're adults, so we have a beer after, you know,
we're a rec league, but it's...
Yeah, but then after that, they're like,
okay, so now they're dehydrated from the sport.
They had a beer, you know that they're reaching
for a Gatorade in the morning.
I don't know, because you're drinking water the whole time.
You know, like...
Water gives you nausea and cramps.
Did you not learn anything on this podcast?
I did, but I'm saying,
I'm saying maybe that the trend is moving away,
which is why they're...
Yeah.
It would be interesting to see Gatorade sales move.
Yeah.
I will say, do you not get inspired
every time you see a Gatorade commercial?
Like they still get me and I'm still like,
God, that's fucking badass.
I'm gonna go kick a soccer ball around.
I don't anymore.
Really?
I'm perfectly honest.
Like they're...
Maybe I'm just not their target demo anymore.
I think it is like college kids and young kids
like trying to be great athletes, but like...
Yeah.
The ones that I've seen are like...
Who saw the future ahead of them.
Refuel, like yeah, they have like a little health bar.
Maybe they've just, they've gone real Gen Z for me.
And I just, I don't feel like I'm their target demo anymore.
Oh my God.
Back in my day.
I walked a mile in the snow.
I see that as a positive.
I'm like, yeah, I'm not their target demo.
I'm cool with it, but it doesn't resonate with me anymore.
Like I'm not trying to be like Gatorade should always
and only be selling to me all the time.
Fuck that.
I'm just like...
I think they've been missing the mark.
That's my hot take.
I think this podcast is done and dusted.
All right.
Well, you took a long pause before that
and I tried not to fill it with anything
because I wanted to end my sentence
and let you have moments to think about it.
But with that, I think we'll be back next week
with an analysis of...
Twitter.
Fun.
Let's do it.
We don't even know what to call it,
but we'll take a look at it.
Anything else?
Thanks everyone.
That's it.
Bye.