Hello! Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of
Diagnosing a Killer that almost didn't fucking happen!
And then you're gonna be like, I'm Kenna.
Be like, I was shitting my pants.
I am Kenna though, and I'm Koelle.
Yeah, we just spent probably five minutes, well I just spent five minutes searching through my computer to find my research on this case,
and it was nowhere to be found.
Literally couldn't find it.
Literally couldn't find it, and I was like, I auto-save as I go, there is no fucking way that I don't have it on here.
Well I found it in the trash, I threw him away.
I was gonna say, tell him where you found it!
Found it in the trash.
But that's the good news about not having an automatic trash taker outer on my computer, is that it didn't delete itself.
So thank god, because we would not have had an episode to date.
Right, I was gonna say, we could just look up whoever it was together and then just make it up as we go.
The shittiest episode to date.
Well we weren't gonna like, not do something, you know?
I mean that's what was going through my head.
We had to like, do something.
You know what we could have done? We could have like, just gone in the archives and pulled out like research from a case a long time ago,
and then just put this guy's name on top of it, nobody probably would have noticed.
Like, is it that common?
That sounds an awfully lot like Samuel Little, what he did.
Anyway, hi everyone.
Hi.
That was very scary, that's never once happened.
Yeah, that's kind of creepy.
Anyway, welcome back to another episode, and welcome if it's your first time.
Super excited to be back here with you guys.
Hell yeah.
You saw the Little Mermaid today?
I did, it was really good.
I like that they made, I mean spoilers I guess, but not spoilers, because pretty much everybody's seen the Little Mermaid.
But a lot of it was kind of frame for frame, which I really enjoyed.
Yeah.
Some really iconic moments, like her collection area, that very specific rock that she sits on, and the way that it's kind of illuminated under the hole,
that's at the top of the little cavern that she has.
The Nigel Thornberry Rock?
No, not that one. The one that's where her collection area is, you know?
Yeah.
Just that part, and it was really, yeah, they did do the smashing, they did the,
yeah, that's not what I think of every time I think of that scene.
They did do that, they did do that, but they kind of gave Eric his own character development, which I really enjoyed,
and it made him like twice as hot, because you really kind of tried to understand who this guy was,
and I think he's my favorite Prince of All Time now.
There you go.
Yeah, it was awesome. It was very rewarding to see just the diversity in the cast,
and the way that they took this super seriously, Scuttle's actually a female representing voice in this one,
instead of, I think it was just because it was a lot of masculinity, probably, in the first one,
where everyone was a guy other than Ariel, you know, and Ursula.
Yeah.
So, it was cool to see that, that they introduced more female characters into it,
but it didn't feel like it was super geared towards just women, you know, or girls.
And a lot of the action scenes, my son really loved, so with all the ships and the drama and the fire and the,
it was really, really awesome, and Melissa McCarthy, she was really good at Ursula.
I thought her father.
Obsessed.
Cool.
So, I had like a little bit of a manic episode before this episode, before this episode.
I wanted to re-pierce my industrial.
Like, I had my industrial pierced a long time ago.
I had to take it out when I used to work at the Argyle, and I haven't had it in since,
and that was back in like 2021.
But now that I'm working in a new field with a new group of employees,
they don't care if you have piercings, and so I wanted it back.
And I got a needle all the way through, or like a safety pin, like all the way through both holes.
I got a regular earring all the way through both holes, but the industrial is like a gauge piercing,
and I just like couldn't shove it, and it was very painful.
Anyway, so I now have a regular earring.
It's a little bit bigger than a regular earring in the bottom hole, just for it to like hold space.
But I'm probably gonna get it tapered, like, not tapered like a gauge, but I'll probably go to a shop and just have them,
you know how they have like the spacer?
Like they can put like a little bit of Vaseline on it, and they kind of push it through and like just make the jewelry go in.
So what was your industrial pierced at, do you know?
Where was it pierced?
No, what gauge was it pierced at?
Oh, it's a 14.
Okay, I might have a 14 somewhere.
I have my original piercing, I couldn't get it through.
Okay, well I also have 16s as well, so what I'm saying is a regular piercing is 18.
Yes, I have 16s because that's what all of these are.
That's what I have in my ear right now.
I just couldn't get to a 14, yes, because I'm a pussy.
Yeah, no, that's what I'm thinking, if I can't get it through myself, I'll just go usually if you go.
I've done it before, if they do it and they don't have to re-pierce it, they won't charge you.
Especially like a nice piercer, and then I'll just buy like a piece of jewelry from them or something.
With my gauges, when I first started gauging my ears, I would only gauge up if my gauge would fall out in the middle of the night,
because I knew it was loose enough.
I would wake up and I'd be like, shit!
But I knew it was loose enough to go up a size.
Yeah, so, well, yeah, we pierced ourselves.
But!
That's true, when me and Cameron were piercing each other's septums, that was awful.
Oh yeah, I tried to put my septum back in too, but it's not that it's closed, I just couldn't find it, because my nails are too long right now.
To always kept hers, mine was the one that was rubbing up against my sinus cavity.
I got it in the middle, and I just sat there with that needle in my nose for like hours, and it just was rubbing up against- it was too close.
Yeah.
Rubbing up against the cartilage right there?
I missed my septum a lot, but...
Oh well, the past is the past. Are you ready to learn about this guy?
Yeah.
Yeah. That didn't sound very confident.
Before we get in, do you want to share our handles for the new people that are listening?
Sure, you can visit diagnosingaKiller.com, there we have links to resources and merch.
Buy some Merchie merch, get some t-shirts, some hats, some pillows, some drawstring bags.
We've got magnets, stickers, a bunch of stuff. I might have already said stickers.
Catch us on social media, anywhere at diagnosingaKiller, other than Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnosis, and shoot us an email.
Please shoot us an email, diagnosingakilleratgmail.com.
We were just talking about the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival that is coming up in August, in literally less than two months, and we are extremely excited.
We were talking about the fact that we need to book our fucking hotel, because we haven't done that yet.
So true.
But we do want to thank our current Patreons as well, as suggest people sign up for new ones if you are interested in ad-free episodes and a bonus episode every month on the 29th.
Yeah.
This month, it's a little early. Do we want to maybe hint at who we're doing?
No.
Not at all.
Cool.
You won't know until the 22nd.
Cool.
Oh, and we also have a potential, DAK Live in the works, and not even a potential, it's probably happening.
Oh yeah.
So we are going to have a new guest for that. We'll probably release that maybe next week, just to see who it is.
Yeah.
Before the 22nd, that one will release, and then really cool something or other happening on the 22nd, and then you get that bonus case on the Patreon on the 29th.
It's essentially going to be a three episode week.
So that's really exciting.
That is really exciting. Two episodes on the same day.
And then guess what I was thinking earlier next month, because I have the Patreon bonus next month on the 29th, it's Casey's birthday, so I'm going to let him choose my case.
And I'm going to tell him it has to be really gory and graphic, because it's a Patreon only.
But I'm going to let him at least have a say in my case, because if he chooses someone who's already done, obviously I'm not going to do that.
If you are new here, our Patreons, much like you probably gathered, tier two and tier three, get an extra additional bonus episode, which is content warning free, ad free.
It is just straight case.
So none of that extra mumbo and jumbo that we're doing right now. You don't get any of that.
None of that.
It's just case.
The first thing I really love is listening to us give you all of our handles in the beginning.
All right. Are we ready?
We're ready.
I will be surprised if you know this guy.
Okay.
Although I heard about him on a podcast episode.
I don't know how much true crime podcasts other than ours that you listen to, because I know you're not on YouTube.
But yeah, so you might not have heard about this guy, but you might have.
I'm sorry if that offends anybody, by the way, but I do not listen to podcasts, which is funny because we work.
We work on this.
The only podcast I listen to is us.
Yeah, I mean, we're the best.
I loved it.
It's true.
We are the best.
I would love to listen to that chapters though.
Mike from that chapter.
I love his stuff, but I'm totally a YouTube person because I like some visual visuals.
Excuse me.
Sorry.
Okay.
Content warning.
This episode contains descriptions of graphic child abuse, kidnapping, mutilation of a person before and after death, graphic sexual assault,
suicide, and serious mental illness.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.
Remember, your mental health is very important to us and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
I told you it was a doozy.
That is a lot.
It's going to be a lot.
So we're going to be talking about, I didn't even say his name.
Usually we say the name and then we do the content warning.
Joseph Callinger, a.k.a. the Shoemaker.
No.
It's like barely known as a Shoemaker, so we're just going to call it Joseph.
Is it not Shumalker?
I'm kidding.
I don't know.
It's Shoemaker.
Anyway, Joseph Callinger.
No, it doesn't ring any bells?
No, I don't think so.
Yay.
That was my goal.
Is he UK?
No, he's American.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Here we go.
Joseph Lee Brenner III was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on December 11th, 1935.
Okay.
Joseph Lee Brenner Jr. and Judith Brenner.
So he's the third.
The third.
It is believed that Joseph was the only child of Joseph Jr. and Judith, and the two would
raise baby Joseph for the first two years of his life.
What do you mean believed?
It was believed that he was the only child.
Because his parents only raised him for two years, his biological parents, and then he
got adopted.
Oh, okay.
So we don't know if they had any of their children.
Fair.
In December of 1937, Joseph's father abandoned him and his mother, seemingly out of the blue,
leaving Judith feeling as though she could not care for Joseph.
I know.
I actually lied.
He was with his mom for like four years, but his parents together for two.
Yeah, so it's like already like, she's like, I can't tell.
Tays old this time.
She would put Joseph into foster care at just two years old, and he would stay in the system
for another two years, his mother visiting him once a week during this time.
Oh, wow.
What a lady.
So yeah, she felt she couldn't take care of him on her own, foster care, but she was
still visiting him.
It's like, you can't have your cake and eat it too, lady.
Like just either take care of him full time or put him in foster care.
Well, she better be working like three fucking jobs whilst he doesn't have them, which I
doubt she is.
It is thought that this is when Joseph would develop pretty severe separation anxiety as
anybody would in this situation.
Right.
He would live in and out of different homes until he would eventually be adopted by Austrian
immigrants, Steven and Anna Callinger on October 15th, 1939.
It's probably Anna, right?
Not Anna.
Anna, I'm sorry.
Anna.
I know I always say Anna, but you know, Anna from Mitchell's is like, it's Anna.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, Joseph would not be adopted into a loving family, and instead it was quite
the opposite, which like really fucking sucks.
Joseph would suffer horrendous abuse at the hands of his foster parents, including frequent
floggings, beatings with a hammer, and being burnt with hot irons.
What the fuck?
So your mother thinks you can't take care of you, but you can foster care and you get
adopted into this shit hole.
That's fucking awful.
It's terrible.
Sometime in 1941, Joseph would overhear another child say the word fuck, and he would in turn
use this word at home.
In response to this, his father would beat him with a leather strap, and his mother beat
him with a wooden spoon.
The only reason you would fucking adopt a child just to beat the shit out of them is
if you're a fucking monster.
Yeah.
Yeah, shit.
Like I don't even, I can't even come up with a worse name.
It just, that's ridiculous.
That is somebody that is already experiencing either part of the cycle of abuse or has been
abused or mentally feels that that's how they get gratification somehow.
And that's fucking disgusting.
It's so disgusting and honestly like it happens way more than we realize.
I don't understand how it keeps fucking happening.
Like, because nobody checks up on the kids?
Exactly.
No one checks up on the kids and there's not extensive background checks on the people
that are looking to foster.
Right.
The question is very, you know, serious and very detailed fostering, not so much.
No.
Every foster caregiver I think should go through a psyche valve.
I completely agree.
So just as a reminder, he got beat this time for using the word fuck at home.
He was then grounded for a week, but he was never told what the word meant or why he was
being punished for saying it.
Is that his account?
Well, yes, but still.
He was like, okay, they never told me that word was bad.
Yeah.
So I have no idea why they're beating me, essentially.
But again, I mean, he's young.
He's probably five at this point though.
Yeah.
Either way, fucking ridiculous.
There's no good reason to abuse.
Yeah, fucking ridiculous.
Yeah.
Fuck, fuck.
This physical abuse was so horrific, in fact, that at the age of six years old in September
of 1943, Joseph was taken to the hospital and underwent surgery for a hernia that he
had developed as a result.
At the age of six.
That's awful.
And nobody said shit.
Nobody did anything.
After being released from the hospital, Joseph's adoptive parents told him that the doctors
gave him surgery to keep his, quote, bird small and make it not work.
They literally, that's what they call this penis if no one caught on.
They literally said the doctor made it so that you can't use that ever and it's going
to be that small forever.
Why would they say that?
Because they're fucking horrible.
Tell me these people are dead or, well, now they're probably dead, but tell me these
people were fucking held accountable.
Lowkey, I wrote this research like probably a month ago and so I'm like still like what
the fuck, like every time I re-read this I'm like Jesus.
I needed some time to like digest before I resented it to the world.
Although Joseph had to undergo surgery, the abuse would not stop when they returned home
and it seemingly got worse even once they got back home.
Among the punishments endured back home were being whipped with belts, being locked inside
closets, kneeling on jagged rocks, out, engaging in self-injury like they forced him to hurt
himself, being starved and even being forced to eat excrement.
Why isn't this on the Patreon episode?
This is brutal.
I told you it's really bad.
This is brutal.
I almost did this for the Patreon episode but I just, it's bad, I know.
And that's why that content warning was so hefty.
Yeah.
In 1943, a seven-year-old Joseph stole a book of prayers from school and when he got home
his parents would discover the book and his possession.
They would punish him for this by making him kneel on sandpaper for an hour every night
for however, who knows long, how long, I mean.
Yeah, like how do you come up with this shit?
It's like literally, it's like who thinks of this shit?
If I saw this in a movie I'd be like that's ridiculous.
They're fucking demented.
Yeah.
It's disgusting.
In early 1944, Joseph was hit on the head of four times with a hammer by his mother because
he had asked if he could go on a field trip to the zoo with his classmates.
With a hammer?
And he was seven?
Yeah, around.
Oh my god.
When Joseph was just eight years old he was reportedly sexually assaulted at Knife Point
by a group of neighborhood boys.
Oh Jesus.
It's like, it just keeps getting more horrendous.
Yeah, we're gonna keep going.
On Joseph's ninth birthday he did not receive any presents from his friends at school and
he got very upset about this.
I mean, he's nine, of course.
You're thinking of what's his face?
Popsicle.
Popsicle?
Well not popsicle but-
But Elliot Rogers is your father.
Yeah, Elliot Rogers, yeah.
Died on your birthday.
Joseph was frequently rebelling at school and decided to cut everyone's coats while they
were hanging up as punishment for them not getting him gifts, which is like-
Elliot Rogers.
Like, it's kind of awesome.
I mean, at least he's not like physically harming anyone.
But he's nine.
But he's missing, yeah.
It's true.
It's a little extreme for nine.
Okay, but what he's seeing at home, like no fucking wonder he's acting up at school.
He'd treat him like shit, like literal shit.
It's true, he could have stabbed anybody with that knife but instead chose to cut up
coats.
In January of 1947, Joseph would begin stealing money from his parents and offering to take
some school kids to the movies in an attempt to gain friendship.
Aw, you know.
His parents would shortly find out that Joseph was stealing the money from them and they
punished him by burning his fingertips on the stove.
Ow, again.
Like, again, where do you think of these things?
I'm not trying to victim blame whatsoever but you need to think that he wasn't gonna
get in trouble if he was stealing money?
I think that he thought I'm gonna get abused either way so I might as well just act out.
Exactly.
That makes total sense actually.
Which my next line is, this would not stop Joseph from stealing money from his parents,
however, and he decided that the pain of burning his fingers was worth having friends.
Which is really fucking sad.
That's like Carl Pansram or some shit.
Pansram.
Yeah, no seriously, it's like, yeah, it's fucking hurts when they burn my fingers but
at least I'll have friends because I took them to the movies.
It's really fucking sad.
That's fucking nuts.
It was at the age of 13 that Joseph really began experimenting with different feelings
of his.
He would carve out holes in his bedroom wall that he would use for masturbation and he
would look at photos of both men and women sexually during this time.
How do you fuck drywall?
Doesn't that hurt?
I would think that that would hurt.
I don't know, I don't have a penis.
True.
Well, I've never fucked drywall.
I get emails.
Just kidding, please don't email us.
Please don't email us.
Jesus.
Please don't do it.
Don't do that.
No unsolicited pictures please.
It was during this time as well that Joseph began to realize that he was only able to
achieve orgasm if there was a knife close by and soon after he would begin stabbing
the photos to become aroused.
So we can see where this is fucking going.
At 13?
At 13.
But like, I'm sorry, what the fuck do you expect this kid to do?
Yeah.
What I mean not you, but just anyone.
He's had zero love his whole life.
He's 13.
He obviously is being taught that if you love someone this is what you do to them.
So what the fuck is he doing?
Is there anything wrong?
That's so true.
You know, kids that have grown up abused, whether it be verbally or physically, whatever,
they come to a point to where they think that's what you do when you love someone.
Yeah.
Yeah, I totally see that.
In July of 1949, Joseph somehow is able to convince his parents to send him to camp for
two weeks.
Somehow.
While he was there, he was able to steal a scope off of a rifle and keep it as a souvenir.
Great.
Why the fuck was he that close to a rifle?
I can't.
He's hanging out.
Seriously.
Well, it was the 1940s or 1950s or something.
World War II was already going on or had happened already.
So I don't think it's that uncommon for like 14, 15 year olds to be walking around with
rifles at camp.
That's true.
But no, I think it was like maybe like a security thing at camp and he like got a hold of it
somehow.
Like it wasn't supposed to be with the kids.
Yeah, but they taught kids how to shoot guns at a very amazing gun is what I'm saying.
True.
So after he stole this scope off of the rifle, 10 days later he's now returning home from
camp.
This is when Joseph can remember hearing voices in his head for the very first time.
We hear that a lot.
He claims that the voices were telling him to cut someone and he decided to act on this
persuasion as he boarded a bus with a knife.
He's like what 14, 15?
Yeah.
Once on the bus, Joseph spotted another young boy and decided to follow him after the boy
had gotten off the bus.
He caught up to the young boy and somehow was able to lure him into the woods like near
a stream.
I don't know if he was like, Hey, come see this cool thing or whatever.
Come see this stream.
Once they reached the stream, Joseph held the knife at the boy and demanded him to take
off his pants.
The boy complied, but instead of harming him, Joseph took off running as soon as the boy
complied and never physically harmed him.
I guess he got nervous or like in over his head or something.
Or maybe yeah, or maybe, well, he's already said that he wanted to harm someone.
Yeah.
But yeah, maybe he did get scared or maybe that was enough.
Enough, yeah.
Like enough in control.
Satisfied.
Yeah.
That's actually interesting that you say that because we kind of talk about escalation
a lot and how things start off like kind of minuscule and then they tend to escalate
and get worse and worse every time.
So after this, Joseph wasn't very satisfied with his performance and he would actually
do this same thing three more times, but changing it like a little bit each time.
Like over the course of a few days or like a week.
I don't really know.
It was within, yeah, probably a few weeks.
Yeah.
Not a long period of time.
But the last time that Joseph would do this, he would actually reenact what happened to
him a few years prior when he was sexually assaulted by, remember I told you that, of
boys.
So what did happen to Joseph, according to him, was these boys held him at knife point
and one of them bit his penis essentially.
So at this time, Joseph is now doing this to another young boy.
He's holding the boy at knife point and biting his genitals, which is very strange.
That is very strange.
Definitely.
Definitely sexual abuse, but it's strange to me.
Those boys that did that to him, whether or not that's true, because again it was alleged,
if they did that, then they clearly saw that somewhere else.
And if that didn't happen, then who's to say that Joseph's parents weren't doing that
to him?
That's true.
Or having someone else do it to him.
So although he was experimenting with these very inappropriate acts, Joseph was also super
interested in other things such as the theater.
Oh, he's a philanthropist.
The same year, 1939, so again, he's still 13 at this point, by the way.
I think we said 14, 15 earlier, but he's still 13.
He said 49.
He would receive a lead role in a school play.
Oh.
A Christmas Carol.
Oh.
He would be Ebenezer's Scrooge.
Ebenezer.
He ended up doing extremely well in the play, and this would actually lead Joseph to developing
a love for acting and wanting to pursue it as a career, as well as becoming a playwright.
Huh, that's really sweet.
That is really sweet.
And that's so, like, it's so innocent and humble.
It's like, endearing.
Yeah, it's just really sweet.
It's really cute.
When he expressed his feelings about acting to his parents, however, they didn't encourage
him like parents should do.
But instead, they laughed at his face and told him that it was ridiculous that he liked
acting so much.
Sad.
That's fucking sad.
The fact that he has an actual passion for something other than stabbing people and
biting genitals.
They're like, that's ridiculous.
That's ridiculous.
You'll never make it.
Seriously, I guarantee you they fucking said that.
Never gonna make it.
Did they?
What is it?
Lock hard?
Oh, I haven't seen that movie in a long time.
Oh, really?
Oh, when Kristen Wiig was saying, you're never gonna make it?
You know, like on the phone?
No.
She just doesn't want him to make it successfully as a musician because she's alone all the
time raising all these children, right?
That's- I fucking love her so much.
Me too.
When Joseph was 15, he met a girl by the name of Hilda Bergman while hanging out at
a theater his parents finally allowed him to visit once a week.
A what?
A theater.
Okay, thank you.
Yeah.
Oh, I didn't hear you.
What was that?
A theater.
His parents absolutely despised the idea of Joseph hanging out with girls and especially
having a girlfriend.
Why?
Because they wanted to control his life.
That's awful.
They told him that he was not to hang out with Hilda anymore.
Joseph did not listen to his parents, however, and he would continue to hang out with Hilda
behind their backs.
Good.
Good for him.
In September of 1951, at the age of 15, Joseph would lose his virginity to Hilda and the
two would continue dating, sex becoming a very big part of their relationship with
sex-
But I mean, they're also young teenagers.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, it just kind of- I mean, come on.
But at the same time, don't you think the parents doing that probably forced them together
more?
Oh yeah, absolutely.
People need to stop doing that, right?
If you don't like somebody else's partner, don't talk about it.
Not only that, but that person's chosen to make that decision for themselves.
Now, of course, if they're in a dangerous situation, you should definitely-
Yeah, I was gonna say, let's talk about 30-year-old dating or 15-year-old.
No, of course.
Yeah.
Or of course, God forbid, physical violence or any of that other stuff.
I'm just saying if you just don't like them because you just- you know, because they take
time away from you as a friend or whatever it is, that's like the best way to push somebody
together.
Well, and that's the thing.
They don't fucking care about his well-being.
They want to control everything he does.
If he has a girlfriend, then he might tell her things that they've done to him.
Or he might not be home as often for them to abuse him or whatever, you know?
That's what I'm thinking is that they're probably just- they don't want him to have
her fill his head, quote-unquote, with a bunch of independence.
Yeah, exactly.
So this same year again, he's 15, Joseph would experience what he described as being his
mission.
Uh-oh.
He stated that around this time, God had told him that his mission was to save and heal
people through their feet.
Like Jesus?
I don't know.
Due to this quote epiphany, Joseph would conduct over 40,000 experiments with people's feet
over the course of the next 11 years.
Was he just not in the feet?
He had to have just been in the feet.
He's Tarantino.
He's yeah, he's Tarantino.
Yeah, so he thought that he could heal people through like foot-
Fetishist.
Vibes or something, I don't know.
Fetishist.
Still 15, Joseph would move into his own place away from his parents.
I don't know how the fuck he was able to, thank God he was able to get away from them.
He probably didn't take anything with him, he probably just left, left just a bag.
Although he wasn't living at home, he would however continue to work at his father's
shoe shop, seemingly where he was able to begin conducting his experiments.
Shoemaker.
I mean the shoemaker.
It was at this time as well that Joseph really started hanging out with peers and developing
like close friends.
That's good.
He was still dating Hilda and the two would frequently hang out with friends and play poker.
That's cute.
Same, relatable.
Around this time as well is when Joseph begins heavily drinking, 15.
Again, not super abnormal, but heavily drinking is like kind of dangerous for, I don't know.
Well yeah, of course it's dangerous for 15.
I'm not gonna say I didn't do it.
No, well I didn't.
I was probably smoking weed by then, but same.
With you.
Do not.
Don't put that out there.
How dare you.
Do you want me to delete that?
No, it's fine.
We're sisters.
Yeah, I don't do it anymore.
Sisterly bonding.
So this would continue for the next year and a half or so, again the heavily drinking
and hanging out with friends and poker.
And at age 17, Joseph would drop out of school in order to work full time at the shoe shop,
which is really lame because like he's probably so close to graduating.
Yeah, that's, I was gonna say, because he's what, 18?
17.
Yeah, just stick it out.
It's fine.
So, Joseph and Hilda would quickly get married and the two, well not quickly, they've been
together for a few years, but they would have two children together over the next three
years.
Okay.
So very young parents.
Okay.
One of these children's names was Michael Callinger.
Hilda would leave Joseph in September of 1956, citing domestic abuse as the reason.
I'm sure.
Which is really a bummer.
But again, the cycle of abuse, we always talk about that.
Right.
Within a year of Hilda leaving him, Joseph would enter a mental institution at the age
of 21 on September 4th, 1957.
Well, I mean, come on, like he's clearly needed the help.
He had originally gone to the mental institution because of a suspected lesion on his brain.
I guess he was having like some sort of maybe blackouts or maybe seizure activity or something
that maybe they needed to take a further look.
Well, he did say that he was already hearing voices.
Yeah, exactly.
He might too.
Did you hear my voice?
He's really grumbling.
Are you okay?
Yeah.
I've been awake a long time today.
Oh my god.
Yes, exactly that too.
It's probably going to keep happening.
Do you want some water?
Nah, it's alright.
That is me.
Anyway, so he thought that he might have had a lesion on his brain, whether he thought
that or maybe he had gotten some sort of outside influence to tell him that.
Yeah.
But after tests were completed, they revealed only a quote, Psychopathological Nervous
Disorder.
Just a long-ass word.
So this is a super 1950s way of saying like any generalized mental disorder like anxiety,
depression, OCD, etc.
Things like that.
They didn't really have a term for all those different things.
So they just said, Psychopathological Nervous Disorder.
You'll be fine.
Yeah.
Just take some rest.
Take a nap.
Doctors would also state to him that he was probably just dealing with dehydration and
lost appetite due to his recent divorce.
Oh no.
Just drink some water.
Well, you've really been going through it.
So it's probably just that.
Then you're probably just dehydrated.
The voices are just your conscience.
See?
That's it.
If you just need to drink some water, you'll be fine.
That's normal.
It's not funny though.
It's really actually shitty.
It's not.
Really, I'm...
We are fortunate to be growing up in a world right now that knows so much about the human
brain.
Yeah, absolutely.
We don't have to do that.
Just hydrate, sleep on it.
Go ahead, just take a bottle of water and come in the morning.
Yeah, of course.
So Joseph would of course not receive any ongoing mental health treatment from this
point forward and he would be sent on his way.
Joseph would quickly remarry after leaving the mental institution on April 20th, 1958
to marry the nurse.
The woman that he married was named Elizabeth Baumgard and they would have five children
together.
Okay.
So he has seven.
Seven, total.
Unfortunately, the cycle of abuse would not end with Joseph, but it would get progressively
worse.
It later came out that Joseph kept a torture chamber of sorts in their home basement in
order to punish the children whenever he felt an itch in his hand that just told them that
they misbehaved, told him they misbehaved.
He said, my hand's itchy.
You probably fucked up somewhere.
So that's crazy.
Yeah.
This would frequently happen quote after midnight and quote, only one of us would be taken down
at a time according to one of his children.
Only happened after midnight because that's when Dad was drunk.
Exactly.
Fuck.
This basement allegedly was equipped with a kerosene lamp quote, rope to tie us up with
and shoe soles, a rubber hose and a cat on nine tails.
So why do you need that for discipline?
I don't understand that.
Yeah, it's terrible.
I mean, I don't even believe in spanking.
I really don't.
People can disagree with me until the calyx come home, but that's just me personally.
I don't believe in that.
Some parents still do it.
To me, it's just awful.
Why would you need utensils?
Of course, but that's what he's been shown his whole life is my parents did this to me.
It's the same mindset, not to the point fingers, but a lot of the older generation has that
mindset of I dealt with it.
I was able to get through with it, not abuse necessarily, but whatever they had to deal
with as a child, you can deal with it because I dealt with it and I'm just fine.
But we always say, do what you can do until you know better and then do better.
Once you know better than do better, don't just keep doing it.
For those people that don't know, because I've heard the term kind of nine tails, I
had to look it up again just to make sure.
It's like a flogger.
It has nine strips at the end.
Oh, leather.
Yeah, leather and you use it kind of like a whip.
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So this abuse was severe and not that again he didn't have to go through it himself as
a child but it was hoped that the cycle would end with Joseph.
But it did not and he would often threaten to kill one or more of his children and would
frequently beat them with various objects.
Like you said, why do you need utensils?
Why do you need to tell your kids you're gonna kill them?
This is really sad.
The kids would frequently make the choice to go to bed around seven or eight because they
knew that they would more than likely be woken up after midnight.
So they would go to bed early in order to get enough sleep.
That is, that's adaptation.
That's really fucked up.
Yeah.
That your kids have to make that type of a decision.
Yeah.
I know.
Although the children would later testify about the horrific childhood, they all seemed
to collectively agree that Joseph was extremely mentally ill.
So they knew.
I mean it's like, it's kind of like Albert Fish too.
That kind of reminds me of Albert Fish.
That the kids were just like, well that's daddy.
Yeah.
Okay.
So this horrific abuse would go on for nearly 10 years.
Joseph being in and out of mental institutions the whole time for amnesia and arson.
Two completely different things.
Well there's the fire setting, right?
And then did they talk about, was there animals on here yet?
Not that we know of, but probably so.
And he's in his 20s at this point.
In 1958, at the age of just 22, Joseph would set fire to his home in order to collect insurance
money.
What?
Yeah.
I, okay.
But it seems as though the McDonald's triad, if you will, is coming on way later in his
situation.
He's extremely mentally ill.
He probably has the mental capacity of somebody much younger because of the abuse he endured.
So he's probably setting fires at 22 when another person might be setting fires at like
nine or 10.
Right.
I think that he also had very specific coping techniques like with the stabbing of the photos
and all that.
Like that kept these symptoms at bay.
Yeah, maybe.
But he was also looking to collect insurance money like for the most of the fires.
Yeah.
In fact, after this one he was able to collect $1,600 from the fire.
Didn't get caught or anything like that.
You got the conversion on that?
I actually don't.
Let me look it up.
So it says about 20 grand, maybe a little bit more.
That's not a lot though for a whole house.
Yeah.
I don't know if it was the whole house.
I don't think it like burned to the ground.
I think it was just maybe like damaged.
Burn to the ground.
What is it in the, the impersonators like, tell us what the talking llama is and what
the hell is the ground?
What do you mean and?
Just like, okay, tell us what the talking llama is.
Oh, what the hell is the ground?
In July of 1959, a 23 year old Joseph would be admitted back to the psychiatric hospital
after a suicide attempt.
In this attempt he had swallowed staples and paperclips.
Like horrific.
Like, that's painful.
What the fuck?
Yeah.
I don't even know if that would, these ideas.
Yeah.
I don't even know if that would necessarily end someone's life either.
That just sounds really fucking painful.
It does sound painful.
I think maybe the thought behind it is like piercing maybe like an internal organ.
Yeah, maybe.
I'm not sure.
This would be unsuccessful and after he was physically healthy again, Joseph would be
released yet again without ongoing care once more.
After he swallowed metal.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
In August of 1965, at 29 years old, Joseph would set fire to his home once again.
Nothing would come of it.
No insurance money, no suspicion.
He just, just set it on fire.
Not the whole thing.
Okay.
In October 1967, at 31 years old, Joseph would set yet another fire at home.
Again, nothing coming of it.
Are his children living in the home too?
Yes.
What the fuck?
A few years later, on January 23rd, 1972, at the age of 36, Joseph's oldest daughter
would run away from home.
Can't fucking blame her.
Yeah.
Sorry.
At this point, just to remind everyone, he's still married and terrorizing his family,
so his daughter, a preteen at this point, would take it upon herself to leave the house.
When Joseph found out about this, he brought his daughter back home and burned her on her
thigh with a searing hot iron as punishment.
For not wanting to be abused?
Yeah, exactly.
She left because she didn't want to be abused.
Yeah.
After this incident, three of his children would go to police and report their father
for the long years of abuse they had endured at his hands.
Joseph would be arrested on January 30th, just a week after he burned his daughter.
When questioned by the police, both Joseph and his wife stated that the children had
run away and they both denied any abuse had taken place.
But what about the burn?
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, she burned herself.
She burned herself for attention.
While in jail awaiting trial, Joseph was given an IQ test, which he scored an 82 on.
Just to put it into perspective, if anyone hasn't heard us say this before, the average
is about 100 to 110.
He would be evaluated by psychiatrists during this time as well and diagnosed with paranoid
schizophrenia.
Okay, so they're gonna do something about this, right?
Because now he has a diagnosis.
The state psychiatrist recommended that he be supervised with his family and he was released.
They literally told his family just supervise him.
And he'll be all Gucci.
No meds.
They're not doctors.
Your fucking family's not psychiatrists.
And the whole reason this is happening is because he's abusing the family.
Exactly.
The children would later recant their allegations, by the way.
So who knows what the fuck he did to them to get them to do that?
Yeah.
God, that's awful.
He would be ultimately found guilty of child abuse, however, and sentenced to four years
probation with mandatory psychiatric treatment throughout.
Okay.
Two years later, although he was sentenced to mandatory psych treatment, it clearly was
not being taken care of because Joseph's delusions were beginning to grow.
So there's nothing being done.
He might be getting regular psych evals, but he's not medicated.
He's not being medicated.
And somebody that has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, unfortunately needs
to be medicated to fully relieve their symptoms.
Of course.
You know what?
Let me rephrase.
He might be able to be worked out with through talk therapy, depending on the severity of
it.
But he's receiving no help whatsoever.
Exactly.
In June of 1974, at 38 years old, Joseph began hallucinating constantly.
He was known to hold conversations with a disembodied voice he referred to as Charlie, and he would
frequently say that he would receive divine orders from God.
Very clear.
Very, very clear.
This is actually really interesting because we had just talked about delusional disorder,
like not that long ago, and it usually presents itself in the early 40s.
He's almost 40 at this point.
Oh, it's interesting.
Yeah.
The orders from...
Oh, not to mention, he's had these for a while, but it's getting worse at this point.
The orders from God included demanding that Joseph murder young boys and sever their genitals.
Meanwhile, one of Joseph's young sons, Joey, Joseph IV, was at the time checked into a
psychiatric hospital as he was experiencing some type of psychosis.
He would however be released in May of 1974 after being evaluated as quote, seriously
disturbed.
So it's like a fucking...
What is it?
Genetic?
Like, oh, you're clearly mentally ill.
Goodbye.
Yeah.
Like, to your family can take care of you.
It's fine.
The two of us are all housed together.
Yeah.
About a month later in June, Joseph would bring these orders from God to the attention
of his other son, Michael, and enlist his help, essentially.
Michael allegedly responded with enthusiasm, saying that he was quote, glad to do it, dad.
So are they like...
Remember, these delusions are telling him to kill young boys and sever their genitals.
He presents this to Michael and asks him to help him, and Michael's like, sure.
Yes.
11 days later, Joseph and his young son Michael would commit their first heinous crime together.
And how old was Michael?
He was about 12 at this point.
On July 7th, I accidentally put 2974.
He's a fan fighter.
2974.
On July 7th, 1974, Joseph and Michael would murder a 10-year-old boy from Puerto Rico by
the name of Jose Calazzo.
Jose was living in Philadelphia at the time of his murder, and after killing the boy,
the two would cut his genitals off and act Joseph stated God wanted him to do again.
About a week later in early July, Joseph came up with another plan to not only please God,
but to make some money in the process.
Oh yeah, because yeah, okay, go ahead.
Joseph had taken his other young son, Joseph IV, to a scenic spot overlooking a cliff with
the promise of taking photos of him.
Originally, he tried to get Joey to fall off the cliff by telling him to back up while
taking photos, but this was unsuccessful.
Joey's about like 14, 13 or 14 at this time.
This is his own kid.
Joseph had taken out a $45,000 life insurance policy on his son without his knowledge, so
when he did not have success with him falling off the cliff, he decided to go ahead and
try again.
A few days later, Joseph then attempted to lock young Joey in a burning trailer, but
this was unsuccessful as well.
Can you imagine being this child?
Like your dad's constantly trying to kill you.
Like it's clear.
Like maybe the cliff thing was like a misunderstanding.
The trailer thing, no fucking way.
No, yeah.
You don't recognize that that's on purpose.
Three days later, on July 28th, 1974, Joseph enlisted the help of Michael yet again to
get the job done.
The two together would lure Joey to a demolition site where they ultimately would drown him
and dump his body under a pile of rubble, hoping it would be destroyed along with the
rocks.
I'm speechless.
This is ridiculous.
I'm out of here.
Goodbye.
Bye.
Joseph would almost immediately report Joey as missing and try to collect the insurance
money.
That is your fucking, you named him after you.
Are you fucking kidding me?
And the brother too.
And the brother.
The brother is just like, oh okay yeah, this is what, anything for dad.
The insurance company definitely suspected foul play, so they refused to pay out the
life insurance policies to Joseph.
He did not argue with them, by the way.
So he didn't even get the money?
Nope.
He killed the son for nothing?
Nope.
I mean, yep.
I mean, yeah.
A month later, on August 9th, 1974, Joey's deceased body would be found at the demolition
site.
This cause of death was unable to be determined, so the insurance company would still refuse
to pay Joseph.
Yeah.
Because they're not going to pay you on a missing person once the body's found there,
like, that's fucking weird.
Like, I'm not going to just pay you.
Yeah, exactly.
Joseph would later admit to being the perpetrator behind his son's murder.
His son, again, that he named Joseph Jr. fucking ridiculous.
Who did he admit that to?
Just later.
Much later.
A couple of months went by with no big crimes by Joseph and Michael, but in December of
1974, they would pick back up on their antics.
The two would break into a home in Lindenwood, New Jersey.
I'm sorry, it's called Lindenwald.
Lindenwald.
New Jersey, but nobody was home.
They stole the items of interest and then decided to hit a second home.
In this home lived a woman by herself, and Joseph was known to have sexually assaulted
her after they broke in.
There was really not any other information about her, but she would survive.
Less than 10 days later, on December 3rd, 1974, the two would break into a home that
had four women inside playing bridge together, which is like so hum-
That's cute.
Like, so what is- God, what's the word?
It's so- There's a word I'm looking for, and I tried to say it earlier, and I couldn't.
It's just like genuine.
I don't know what the fucking word is.
So, I don't know.
Okay, we'll think about it.
Okay.
So, the two, Joseph and Michael, would subdue the four women and steal nearly $20,000 worth
of valuables and cash, essentially kidnapping all four women at that time and holding them
hostage at gunpoint.
After getting the things they wanted, the two would move along to another home, leaving
the four women unharmed and another person to victimize.
This woman is Pamela Jay, who lived in Homestead, Maryland, so they're like hop in states and
stuff.
The two was alone when the two men went to her door and knocked, pretending to be salesmen.
I'd be like, bitch, he's 13.
Yeah, like, excuse me.
Selling what?
They were able to forcibly enter the home and hold Pamela at gunpoint.
While being held hostage, Pamela was forced to perform sexual acts on Joseph.
I know.
Are you ready for the doozy?
Sure.
A little over a month later, on January 8th, 1975, Dee Dee Romaine was at her mother's
house caring for her grandmother, who was very ill, and her son Robert had come along
as well.
Dee Dee noticed a man and boy approaching the home around early afternoon, and the two
rang the doorbell.
Dee Dee would answer the door, and the man in question, Joseph Callinger, told her that
he was a salesman named John Hancock.
Okay.
Like, fucking shut up.
How original.
Joseph then asked Dee Dee if anybody else was home, giving her an uneasy feeling right
off the bat.
She told the two that they needed to leave, but just as soon as she did this, Joseph would
pull a gun on her, and he and Michael would force their way into the home.
So just as a reminder, there's three people in the home, the grandmother, the granddaughter,
and her son.
The noise from the struggle alerted Dee Dee's young son, Robert, who came into the room
to see his mother and Joseph struggling.
In response to this, Robert began screaming, of course, he's young.
Well, anybody would be fucking screaming.
I'm 30 years old.
I don't scream.
Just lose that ability at some age.
Joseph would then point the gun at Robert's head, stating, quote, this is a robbery.
Do as I say, and no one will get hurt.
He then put the gun into his pocket, grabbing a knife to use as a weapon instead.
Joseph again asked if there was anybody else in the home, to which Dee Dee replied that
just her ill grandmother was in bed upstairs.
Michael had done a quick sleep of the home and determined that Dee Dee was in fact telling
the truth.
Joseph then shoved Dee Dee into a vacant room and asked her where he could find scissors,
to which Dee Dee responded that she did not know.
She didn't live there, you know.
Joseph would gag Dee Dee, covering her eyes with tape and tried forcing her to remove
her clothing.
When she refused to do so, Joseph forcibly removed her clothing himself and also took
off all of her jewelry, which is like really fucking scary.
That's really scary.
He asked Dee Dee if anybody was coming home, to which she nodded yes.
He asked her what time they would be arriving and she held up five fingers, like five o'clock
or five minutes, we don't know.
Joseph then bound Dee Dee's ankles and elbows with electrical cords and asked Michael to
check to make sure the front door was locked.
Joseph would then proceed to undress Robert as well and lay him on the bed next to his
tied up mother, which is like fucking disgusting.
Joseph's plan was to sexually assault Dee Dee, however, when he attempted to, he was
quote disgusted to find out that she was menstruating.
Joseph would respond to this by forcefully removing Dee Dee's tampon and throwing it
on the floor, which is like heinous as fuck.
All of this is fucking gross, but that's really bad.
I keep saying this is really bad, this is really bad, but it is.
Shortly after this, Dee Dee's sister, Randy, would arrive at the home.
She was surprised when she realized the door was locked because she's meeting her sister
there, like she just got there.
So she went ahead and rang the doorbell.
Dee Dee was attempting to unlock the door herself when the door flung open and Joseph
appeared, grabbing Randy and dragging her inside.
Imagine that, that's fucking terrifying.
You open like a door to a very familiar home and you see a complete stranger.
Well like you're fumbling with your keys and the door just opens into a stranger.
I bet she was like, if I had the wrong fucking house, it probably was.
Joseph would put a gun to Randy's head and tell her that he was there to commit a robbery.
When he demanded money, all she had to offer him was a $5 bill.
Joseph then pushed Randy into the room with naked Dee Dee and Robert and Randy immediately
thought that the two were dead upon entering the room.
She began to panic and Joseph instructed her to check on them if she thought they were
dead.
They were not.
And Joseph then again asked for money, to which Randy told him there was some in the
box on the dresser behind him.
He ordered Michael to check the box while he forced Randy to undress at gunpoint.
And the grandmother is, I'm assuming, so ill and older that she probably is-
Like she's bedridden.
She might even be like asleep.
Yeah.
Sorry, I keep interrupting you.
No, I do often.
I wonder if she could hear what was going on or if she even knew what was going on.
So again, Joseph asked Randy to undress at gunpoint.
She complied and Joseph would ask Randy if anyone else was coming home.
She replied, quote, lots of people.
Damn.
She's like, fucking get ready, motherfucker.
Joseph would then tie Randy up similarly to Didi, rolled her over and attempted to sexually
assault her.
When he discovered that Randy was also menstruating, he shouted out, quote, what is this?
Is this some kind of a coup?
That's actually fucking hilarious.
I don't like fucking motherfucker.
A little while later, Edwina Wiseman arrived home to find her front door locked, the owner
of the home.
Oh.
And she was with Reda Romain and her boyfriend, Frank Welby.
She leaned forward in order to ring the doorbell, but at the same time, the three were met by
Joseph opening the door with a gun drawn.
Again, at your own fucking home.
At your home.
This is your house.
He instructed them all inside and to the living room, stating if they all complied, nobody
would get hurt.
Sure.
They always say that.
Joseph would remove the jewelry from the women and tied their feet up with Venetian cords
from the curtains.
They had like, yeah, cords.
He would then bound Frank's hands behind his back with his own belt.
I wouldn't let it get that far.
I'm sorry.
I think there's fucking six of us there.
Yeah.
And two of you.
There's three of us.
I don't care if you do have a gun.
Punch the 13 year old in the face and you grab the gun.
Kick him in the nads.
And gouge the eyes and punch the gooch.
Joseph would then order Michael to bound the women's hands with a cord from a nearby
vacuum.
And when he did, Michael was able to bind Reda's hands with no problem, but was having
some trouble with Edwina's hands for some reason.
Joseph would tell Michael not to worry about it too much as Edwina was quote, too old to
be a problem.
Let's keep that in mind.
Yeah.
Let's keep that in mind.
Okay.
The two would leave the room to check for more valuables.
Again, someone else arrived at the front door and knocked and Joseph went to answer
it.
Like a fucking clown.
This is a fucking clown car.
Yeah.
Okay.
This time it was their 21 year old neighbor, Maria Fashing at the door.
She was coming to check on the grandmother as well.
Joseph and Maria engaged in loud conversation before he forced her into the home, similarly
to the others.
Now, just to keep everyone up to date, there's now eight people in the home, not including
Joseph and Michael.
Okay.
So there's eight victims.
Maria was forced into the living room and ordered to lay down.
It is thought that Joseph might have thought that Frank was a bigger threat than the women
since he was male.
And he would actually gag Frank because of this with a handkerchief before binding tape
around his face and attempting to hog tie him as well.
Oh my god.
Like he was really concerned with like Frank being a problem.
Yeah.
Frank was barely able to move, but Joseph would force him down to the basement where
he took his pants and underwear off and put a knife to his penis.
Joseph was noted as saying to Frank, quote, if you move, this goes.
Okay.
Like, you're fucking cool.
You're cool.
Shut up.
Shortly after this, Joseph turned his attention to Maria, who he led down to the basement
as well.
Joseph had actually asked Maria at one point to bite Frank's penis off.
She refused.
She's like, no.
Yeah.
And brother in law or whatever.
Their altercation escalated to the point of Joseph brutally raping Maria, Frank being
able to hear the exchange the whole time because she was down at the basement with him.
In response to Maria refusing to comply, Joseph would begin stabbing her multiple times and
would ultimately slit her throat from ear to ear, killing her.
Oh my God.
Again, this poor Frank is just blindfolded and gagged while this is happening.
Like I said, I just wouldn't be, I don't think I could let it get that far.
I would rather probably try to grab the gun or grab him or tackle him or something.
I mean, it's a horrid thought because you don't know what you would do in that situation.
I don't know what I would do in that situation because I'd never been in it.
But it kind of makes me think like, how many of us can he actually shoot before we can
subdue him?
And that's what I'm saying.
I mean, it's much easier said than done though.
Put that thought out there.
But of course, in today's society in America, I had that thought at being at the movie theater
with my kiddo and I was like, okay, if somebody comes around the corner with this, I'm gonna
do this.
Or I'm like, okay, well the exits that way, I would tell them to go that way.
And I would, you know, because I'm thinking like-
I always know my exits everywhere.
And I just don't think that I- okay, worst case scenario, he shoots and he kills me,
but at least hopefully it gains some kind of rallying thing, you know, where everybody
else is like, okay, get him now while he's distracted or whatever, you know?
Yeah, exactly.
It's hard because again, like, how the fuck do you know what to do in this situation until
you're in it, you know?
So during this whole attack, Michael was upstairs watching the other victims.
And Weena, the one that he was having a hard time doing her hands, was actually of course
able to hear the assault as well as everyone else and clearly recognized that this might
have been a murder.
So she began fearing the absolute worst and in response to this, she jumped up and made
her run for the front door.
Yeah, it's just-
Fuck this, I'm out.
Pussy ass little 13 year old.
Right.
Just punch him and get out of there.
But I get her thinking as well, it's like, he just killed her.
Who's to say he's not gonna try to kill all of us like one by one?
Of course.
Yeah.
And then the father quote, somebody's loose.
Like, no.
To which Joseph and Michael both fled the scene.
They just left.
Yeah.
Wow.
So she pretty much saved everybody else's life, honestly.
And Weena was able to alert the neighbors who phoned police and they would arrive to
find the seven hostages and Maria's body, unfortunately, in the basement.
That's really sad.
The two would board a public bus in order to escape and they would dump their weapons
at a bloody shirt along the way to get rid of evidence.
Police were also able to determine that Joseph Callinger and his son had been in the area
around the time of the crimes.
I'm not exactly sure how or why, but-
It's those Callinger kids.
Yeah.
Those Callinger boys.
They also found out soon about Joseph's history of domestic violence, his other son's unsolved
death, and a series of arsons targeted against buildings that he owned.
Like-
What an idiot.
He's like breadcrumbs leading right up to you.
On January 17th, 1975, just nine days after the final crime, police went to the Callinger
home and placed 39-year-old Joseph, 13-year-old Michael, and 11-year-old James under arrest.
Why James?
They had arrested both young boys at first because they looked very similar and police
weren't entirely sure which one was there.
I see.
So they were like, fuck it, just take them both.
Poor James.
They would eventually rule out James and release him and focus their attention on Michael
and Joseph.
Two months after the arrest, the courts decided that Michael was delinquent but salvageable
and could not be held responsible for the murder charges due to his age.
So they dismissed the murder charges in exchange for him pleading guilty to two counts of robbery.
Okay.
They were pretty much saying like he was under the hypnosis of his dad or under the, you know-
Yeah.
Well, he was also kind of just the look out to-
Yeah.
...he wasn't holding the knife.
He was sentenced to a reformatory and placed on probation until the day of his 25th birthday.
Upon his release of the reformatory at the age of 21, Michael changed his name and moved
out of the state.
Damn.
Bye.
He's like, fuck my dad.
Yeah, maybe he did get some actual help and treatment then.
Hopefully so.
That might be like not fully adieu, but you know-
Yeah.
Well, it might have been.
Joseph would be held until his court date, obviously.
He was tried in Pennsylvania first in June of 1975, which actually resulted in a hung
jury and was just dismissed, like thrown out.
In August of 1975, joke- I say 75 like it's a new year.
In August, so a couple months later, Joseph was given a psychiatric evaluation again in
which the doctor concluded that he knew right from wrong and was competent to stand trial.
Good.
Although this was the finding of the doctor, when it came time to try Joseph, he tried to
claim that he had another personality by the name of Charlie, who was actually responsible
for the crimes.
Remember this voice that he would talk to?
He also claimed that he talked to the Lord every day and he was told to kill the people
he did by God.
He would plead insanity at his second trial in September of 1975, acting completely out
of the ordinary during the hearing.
Like, it seemed very apparent to everyone else in the courtroom that he was deliberately
trying to make himself seem insane.
And as he sat in the trial, his head, quote, bobbed and jerked, then swung in clockwise
arcs continually in motion.
Like, that doesn't happen.
That's not a thing.
I mean, he already sounded like he was insane, legally, with the God telling him to kill
children.
Yeah.
I mean, that's- you don't need to act it.
You don't need to like, seize up or anything.
He was allowed to speak during his trial in which he stated that he could not remember
specific periods of time, but he knew that God communicated with him at some point.
He also said that he was the son of God and had existed as a butterfly.
He's just like pulling anything out of his ass to make himself sound insane.
Joseph would be tried on nine felony counts.
The jury took less than an hour to deliberate and they would find Joseph guilty on all counts,
sentencing him to 30 to 80 years in prison.
The judge was noted as saying that Joseph was a, quote, evil man, utterly vile and depraved.
Which is funny because he said depraved in the last episode.
Joseph would then be convicted in October of 1976, this time in New Jersey, for the
murder of Maria Fasching.
He would receive a mandatory life sentence following this conviction that would be served
consecutively with his sentence from Pennsylvania.
He was also later convicted of the murder of Joseph Jr.
And the murder of a neighborhood boy as well.
So completely random we didn't even know about.
While in prison, Joseph was known to have frequent violent outbursts, including multiple
suicide attempts.
In March of 1977, Joseph attempted to kill himself by setting himself on fire, but he
was unsuccessful.
Oh my God.
A month later, he would assault a fellow inmate and then set his block on fire as well.
Like just able to access these things.
Well, he's clearly not getting the, still not getting the treatment and the hell he
deserves.
Yep.
Not deserves, but needs.
Needs.
Because of his violent and suicidal behavior, Joseph would be moved to a mental hospital
in Trenton, New Jersey around this time.
A year later, in March of 1978, Joseph would slash a fellow inmate's throat in an unprovoked
attack.
The victim would survive this attack.
That's terrifying.
I know.
Joseph would be moved yet again to another mental hospital in Philadelphia on May 18,
1979.
In an interview 10 years later, Joseph still expressed his desire to slaughter every person
on earth.
All right, fucking, what's this?
Vermeeras.
No, um, what we just did, what's the guy's name?
We did, uh, Elliot Roger.
Oh.
Oh, every woman.
And Joseph stated that he wanted to commit suicide after he had accomplished this feat
and quote, become a god.
He's like, I'm going to kill everyone on earth, kill myself, and I'm just going to become
a god.
I'm just going to be a god.
I'm just going to do it.
I'm just, I'm going to do it.
I'm just going to do it.
I'm just going to, yeah.
I'm in my murder era.
Sorry, that was bad.
I'm in my godlike era.
At this time, he had been tried and convicted again of both his son's murder and the murder
of Jose Calas.
So I was, sorry, wrong when I said, uh, some neighborhood boy earlier, it was Jose Calas
that I was talking about.
I wrote it down weird.
It's like, whoa, another one?
Yeah.
So because of these convictions, it would actually put two more life sentences on top
of what he was already serving.
Okay.
There's like literally no way.
Joseph would attempt suicide multiple times throughout these years and would also participate
in quote religious hunger strikes as well.
Due to this behavior, he was transferred to Pennsylvania's Fairview State Hospital for
the criminally insane in 1990.
He would eventually be sent back to the state correctional Institute at Crescent in the mid
nineties.
On March 26th, 1996, Joseph Callinger suffered a seizure, resulting in him choking on his
own vomit and ultimately dying from it.
Like he like aspirated to death.
Yeah.
He had actually spent the last 11 years of his life on suicide watch.
11 years?
Yeah.
Isn't that wild?
Still too good for him.
So I have a little bit more and this is actually really interesting to me.
In 1976, an author by the name of Flora Reda Schreiber interviewed Joseph while in prison.
The interview was the basis for a book on the case entitled quote, the shoemaker, the
anatomy of a psychotic, of a psychotic, in 1983.
Yeah, it's 83.
She's forgiven.
No, this was interview was based on a book on the case.
She didn't write that.
That was written by the other people.
So the book would actually later be a part of a son of Sam lawsuit.
What?
This law was first published in 1977 and it stated that criminals were not allowed to
have any financial gain based off of writing on their crimes.
Okay.
So apparently that happened with son of Sam.
He got like some sort of monetary gain from people writing about what he did and they
were like, we're not going to let him make any money off of his own story because he's
a criminal.
The public lawyers and authors alike were very upset by this as they said that it went
against the First Amendment.
I don't know how, but it did.
Well because they're like, they're allowed to write about the crimes, but the criminal
is not allowed to make money off of the story.
The law would subsequently be struck down in 2002, although there was a revision that
was made in 2001.
This states that victims of crimes must be notified whenever a person convicted of a
crime received $10,000 or more from any source.
The law then attaches a statute of limitations giving victims an extended period of time
to sue the perpetrator of the crime in civil court for their crimes.
Okay.
I thought that was super interesting.
That is really interesting.
The law also authorizes the crime victims board to act on the victims behalf in some
circumstances.
So there was a son of same lawsuit brought by one of the family's victims against Joseph
when the law was still in effect, and a judge awarded the family earnings from not only
Joseph, but Flora Schreiber and the authors of the Shoemaker book as well, Simon and Schuster.
The lawsuit left Flora in nearly $100,000 in debt due to the expenses of the book, the
research, including numerous phone calls to Joseph while in prison, totaling $1,200
per month for several years.
Paul Korda, an editor at Simon and Schuster, the people that wrote the book, stated that
for many years he received Christmas cards from Joseph from jail.
Flora stated that she herself grew close with Joseph over the years of interviews and the
two exchanged regular letters and phone calls until Joseph died.
So I just thought that was super interesting that he kind of fell into that son of same
lawsuit and then it got abolished before, I mean now obviously.
But the law was written because Berkowitz had profited?
Yeah, I didn't read like too much into it, but I'm assuming it has something to do with
obviously Berkowitz gaining some sort of money from writings about his crimes because he
named it after him.
Oh, sorry.
Well remember that his lawyers were profiting off of a lot of his stuff and I wonder if
it's not that.
That's probably what it is.
It does seem a little non-David Berkowitz-like to be profiting off of victims because he
was very quickly that fog and that had faded from his brain, honestly.
For sure and honestly, for brevity's sake, I didn't put all of that in there.
You can definitely look it up, son of same lawsuit if you want more details on that,
but that's all I put in there.
So fast forwarding a little bit more.
In February of 2021, the home where Joseph and Michael would commit their last crime
was sold.
The home had had at least seven different owners since the crime had taken place.
Since New Jersey State does not consider any death in the home to be a material fact,
it was not required to be disclosed that the murder happened there.
The four bedroom three and a half bath sold for $587,500 after being on the market for
nearly a year.
So that's a little tidbit of info that's interesting.
And just to get a little bit more in depth with Joseph's mental health, some psychiatrists
truly believe that Joseph was not faking his mental illness while in court, contrary to
what a lot of people tend to believe.
Dr. Nathan Roth stated in 1984, quote, even when doing the most outrageous acts, he believed
he was doing it because of divine guidance.
He's not faking.
Like Chapman.
Yeah.
He had testified as well that Joseph had, quote, a steadily evolving mental disorder
from an early age, which we all know to be true.
He also commented that Joseph took medication to combat psychosis and also suffered from
schizophrenia, which I don't know if that's true, but he testified or he commented,
excuse me.
In other testimony, Ralph David, a clinical psychologist who examined Joseph at a state
hospital for a total of over 1000 hours, agreed with Roth's diagnosis of Joseph's mental
state.
He stated, quote, I saw him almost daily, adding that Joseph has a quote, schizophrenia
of long duration, probably beginning in early childhood or adolescence, end quote.
David also testified that around the time of Joseph Jr.'s death, Joseph or Joseph the
fourth, excuse me.
Ralph said that he had begun to hear the voice of God telling him to, quote, get rid of Joey.
He added, quote, if he couldn't distinguish reality, he couldn't distinguish between
right or wrong.
Which is kind of a good point.
I wanted to add this at the end, of course, so that we could discuss his mental health.
But clearly these testimonies didn't sway the jury or the judge because we know what
he got convicted of, but that actually happened in court.
I just wanted to say it at the end.
It's peppered in.
But yeah, that is the story.
That is a doozy.
It is a fucking doozy.
I don't think I've heard a roller coaster like that since Chase, maybe.
Well, not Trenton Chase.
Who am I thinking of?
UK guy.
Trenton Chase.
Richard Chase.
Yeah.
Right, yeah, Chase, yeah.
His was very up and down, thinking that the dog was a dead dog or all that.
Yeah.
And hallucinations like that.
He also crept into that poor man's home and murdered him and just thinking of the type
of mental struggle that must be.
Yeah.
Not being able to differentiate reality and hallucination.
Yeah, it's really shitty.
That sounds like such a crass way of putting it.
Oh, it's really shitty because it's way more in depth than that.
But there was literally no helping him after a certain point.
That sounds kind of bad, but he never felt love ever.
He only ever felt abandonment and physical pain and sexual abuse and emotional abuse
and neglect.
That fucking, no fucking wonder he did what he did.
And honest to God, it could have been a hell of a lot worse.
It really could have.
And not trying to diminish what he did because he definitely had at least three murder victims,
a lot of assault victims.
Yeah.
Edwina's a hero.
Yeah, absolutely.
She's the hero of the story.
God, it's just shitty.
I hope that Michael's doing okay, honestly.
And James and James.
And his other kids.
Yeah, and his other kids.
Gosh, I can't even imagine.
God, it's awful.
It's just a horrible story.
And again, I listened to an episode on him from another podcast and all I really remembered
about the story was that him and his son committed crimes together and his son's a piece of shit
and blah, blah, blah, not to talk negatively about another podcast.
But that's why I wanted to do the deep dive because I'm like, there has to be a reason
for all of this.
It's not just, oh, him and his son are murderers or they murdered someone together.
They're, you know, they're pieces of shit.
No, there is, as we saw, a lot more that went into that story.
And I do hope that, you know, because we talk about the fact that mental disorders can be
hereditary and stuff, and I just, I hope that they were successful in taking care of themselves
mentally and getting the help that they probably need, you know, or needed because Joseph was
such a, I mean, he was an abusive person.
Yeah.
So, yeah, I really would like to think that the abuse cycle stopped with the kiddos.
Of course, I hope that it did.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's my case.
What a case.
I know we have a lot coming up.
I have my mental break on Monday, and then I think what you, obviously you have a case.
Yeah.
And then I think next week already, we're going to be doing the DAK Live, right?
Yeah.
Are we recording it?
Yeah.
So you guys will be recording it.
Well, I think we're going to release, I think we decided on Saturday, right?
The, maybe the 17th?
The 17th?
Yeah, so.
I think we said maybe the 17th.
It looks like we're going to have three cases for the next two weeks or something almost.
Yeah, like three cases a week, next week, and then a two case week, and then another
three case week.
So there's going to be a lot of content coming y'all's way.
A lot of content.
Yeah.
But thank you guys for listening and sticking with us.
If you'd like to donate to the Patreon, please feel free to join us at patreon.com.com.
You can see a killer.
Again, you do get access to, if you skip the stuff at the beginning, you get access to
an additional episode ad free, all the gore, all the content.
Yeah.
And yeah, pick up some merch.
Yes, absolutely get some merch.
I'm getting paid tomorrow and I'm like dead asking to buy like a couple shirts.
I know I want stickers.
Oh, I want that pillow.
That pillow.
Okay, well we will see you guys later.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
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