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Hello! Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of

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Diagnosing a Killer that almost didn't fucking happen!

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And then you're gonna be like, I'm Kenna.

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Be like, I was shitting my pants.

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I am Kenna though, and I'm Koelle.

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Yeah, we just spent probably five minutes, well I just spent five minutes searching through my computer to find my research on this case,

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and it was nowhere to be found.

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Literally couldn't find it.

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Literally couldn't find it, and I was like, I auto-save as I go, there is no fucking way that I don't have it on here.

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Well I found it in the trash, I threw him away.

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I was gonna say, tell him where you found it!

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Found it in the trash.

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But that's the good news about not having an automatic trash taker outer on my computer, is that it didn't delete itself.

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So thank god, because we would not have had an episode to date.

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Right, I was gonna say, we could just look up whoever it was together and then just make it up as we go.

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The shittiest episode to date.

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Well we weren't gonna like, not do something, you know?

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I mean that's what was going through my head.

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We had to like, do something.

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You know what we could have done? We could have like, just gone in the archives and pulled out like research from a case a long time ago,

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and then just put this guy's name on top of it, nobody probably would have noticed.

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Like, is it that common?

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That sounds an awfully lot like Samuel Little, what he did.

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Anyway, hi everyone.

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Hi.

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That was very scary, that's never once happened.

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Yeah, that's kind of creepy.

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Anyway, welcome back to another episode, and welcome if it's your first time.

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Super excited to be back here with you guys.

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Hell yeah.

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You saw the Little Mermaid today?

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I did, it was really good.

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I like that they made, I mean spoilers I guess, but not spoilers, because pretty much everybody's seen the Little Mermaid.

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But a lot of it was kind of frame for frame, which I really enjoyed.

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Yeah.

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Some really iconic moments, like her collection area, that very specific rock that she sits on, and the way that it's kind of illuminated under the hole,

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that's at the top of the little cavern that she has.

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The Nigel Thornberry Rock?

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No, not that one. The one that's where her collection area is, you know?

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Yeah.

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Just that part, and it was really, yeah, they did do the smashing, they did the,

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yeah, that's not what I think of every time I think of that scene.

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They did do that, they did do that, but they kind of gave Eric his own character development, which I really enjoyed,

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and it made him like twice as hot, because you really kind of tried to understand who this guy was,

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and I think he's my favorite Prince of All Time now.

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There you go.

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Yeah, it was awesome. It was very rewarding to see just the diversity in the cast,

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and the way that they took this super seriously, Scuttle's actually a female representing voice in this one,

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instead of, I think it was just because it was a lot of masculinity, probably, in the first one,

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where everyone was a guy other than Ariel, you know, and Ursula.

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Yeah.

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So, it was cool to see that, that they introduced more female characters into it,

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but it didn't feel like it was super geared towards just women, you know, or girls.

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And a lot of the action scenes, my son really loved, so with all the ships and the drama and the fire and the,

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it was really, really awesome, and Melissa McCarthy, she was really good at Ursula.

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I thought her father.

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Obsessed.

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Obsessed.

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Cool.

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So, I had like a little bit of a manic episode before this episode, before this episode.

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I wanted to re-pierce my industrial.

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Like, I had my industrial pierced a long time ago.

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I had to take it out when I used to work at the Argyle, and I haven't had it in since,

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and that was back in like 2021.

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But now that I'm working in a new field with a new group of employees,

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they don't care if you have piercings, and so I wanted it back.

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And I got a needle all the way through, or like a safety pin, like all the way through both holes.

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I got a regular earring all the way through both holes, but the industrial is like a gauge piercing,

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and I just like couldn't shove it, and it was very painful.

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Anyway, so I now have a regular earring.

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It's a little bit bigger than a regular earring in the bottom hole, just for it to like hold space.

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But I'm probably gonna get it tapered, like, not tapered like a gauge, but I'll probably go to a shop and just have them,

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you know how they have like the spacer?

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Like they can put like a little bit of Vaseline on it, and they kind of push it through and like just make the jewelry go in.

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So what was your industrial pierced at, do you know?

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Where was it pierced?

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No, what gauge was it pierced at?

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Oh, it's a 14.

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Okay, I might have a 14 somewhere.

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I have my original piercing, I couldn't get it through.

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Okay, well I also have 16s as well, so what I'm saying is a regular piercing is 18.

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Yes, I have 16s because that's what all of these are.

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That's what I have in my ear right now.

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I just couldn't get to a 14, yes, because I'm a pussy.

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Yeah, no, that's what I'm thinking, if I can't get it through myself, I'll just go usually if you go.

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I've done it before, if they do it and they don't have to re-pierce it, they won't charge you.

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Especially like a nice piercer, and then I'll just buy like a piece of jewelry from them or something.

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With my gauges, when I first started gauging my ears, I would only gauge up if my gauge would fall out in the middle of the night,

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because I knew it was loose enough.

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I would wake up and I'd be like, shit!

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But I knew it was loose enough to go up a size.

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Yeah, so, well, yeah, we pierced ourselves.

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But!

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That's true, when me and Cameron were piercing each other's septums, that was awful.

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Oh yeah, I tried to put my septum back in too, but it's not that it's closed, I just couldn't find it, because my nails are too long right now.

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To always kept hers, mine was the one that was rubbing up against my sinus cavity.

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I got it in the middle, and I just sat there with that needle in my nose for like hours, and it just was rubbing up against- it was too close.

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Yeah.

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Rubbing up against the cartilage right there?

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I missed my septum a lot, but...

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Oh well, the past is the past. Are you ready to learn about this guy?

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Yeah.

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Yeah. That didn't sound very confident.

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Before we get in, do you want to share our handles for the new people that are listening?

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Sure, you can visit diagnosingaKiller.com, there we have links to resources and merch.

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Buy some Merchie merch, get some t-shirts, some hats, some pillows, some drawstring bags.

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We've got magnets, stickers, a bunch of stuff. I might have already said stickers.

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Catch us on social media, anywhere at diagnosingaKiller, other than Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnosis, and shoot us an email.

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Please shoot us an email, diagnosingakilleratgmail.com.

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We were just talking about the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival that is coming up in August, in literally less than two months, and we are extremely excited.

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We were talking about the fact that we need to book our fucking hotel, because we haven't done that yet.

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So true.

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But we do want to thank our current Patreons as well, as suggest people sign up for new ones if you are interested in ad-free episodes and a bonus episode every month on the 29th.

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Yeah.

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This month, it's a little early. Do we want to maybe hint at who we're doing?

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No.

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Not at all.

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Not at all.

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Cool.

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You won't know until the 22nd.

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Cool.

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Oh, and we also have a potential, DAK Live in the works, and not even a potential, it's probably happening.

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Oh yeah.

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So we are going to have a new guest for that. We'll probably release that maybe next week, just to see who it is.

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Yeah.

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Before the 22nd, that one will release, and then really cool something or other happening on the 22nd, and then you get that bonus case on the Patreon on the 29th.

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It's essentially going to be a three episode week.

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So that's really exciting.

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That is really exciting. Two episodes on the same day.

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And then guess what I was thinking earlier next month, because I have the Patreon bonus next month on the 29th, it's Casey's birthday, so I'm going to let him choose my case.

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And I'm going to tell him it has to be really gory and graphic, because it's a Patreon only.

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But I'm going to let him at least have a say in my case, because if he chooses someone who's already done, obviously I'm not going to do that.

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If you are new here, our Patreons, much like you probably gathered, tier two and tier three, get an extra additional bonus episode, which is content warning free, ad free.

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It is just straight case.

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So none of that extra mumbo and jumbo that we're doing right now. You don't get any of that.

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None of that.

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It's just case.

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The first thing I really love is listening to us give you all of our handles in the beginning.

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All right. Are we ready?

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We're ready.

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I will be surprised if you know this guy.

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Okay.

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Although I heard about him on a podcast episode.

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I don't know how much true crime podcasts other than ours that you listen to, because I know you're not on YouTube.

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But yeah, so you might not have heard about this guy, but you might have.

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I'm sorry if that offends anybody, by the way, but I do not listen to podcasts, which is funny because we work.

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We work on this.

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The only podcast I listen to is us.

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Yeah, I mean, we're the best.

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I loved it.

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It's true.

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We are the best.

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I would love to listen to that chapters though.

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Mike from that chapter.

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I love his stuff, but I'm totally a YouTube person because I like some visual visuals.

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Excuse me.

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Sorry.

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Okay.

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Content warning.

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This episode contains descriptions of graphic child abuse, kidnapping, mutilation of a person before and after death, graphic sexual assault,

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suicide, and serious mental illness.

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If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember, your mental health is very important to us and we love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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I told you it was a doozy.

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That is a lot.

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It's going to be a lot.

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So we're going to be talking about, I didn't even say his name.

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Usually we say the name and then we do the content warning.

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Joseph Callinger, a.k.a. the Shoemaker.

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No.

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It's like barely known as a Shoemaker, so we're just going to call it Joseph.

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Is it not Shumalker?

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I'm kidding.

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I don't know.

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It's Shoemaker.

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Anyway, Joseph Callinger.

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No, it doesn't ring any bells?

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No, I don't think so.

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Yay.

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That was my goal.

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Is he UK?

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No, he's American.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Here we go.

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Joseph Lee Brenner III was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on December 11th, 1935.

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Okay.

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Joseph Lee Brenner Jr. and Judith Brenner.

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So he's the third.

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The third.

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It is believed that Joseph was the only child of Joseph Jr. and Judith, and the two would

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raise baby Joseph for the first two years of his life.

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What do you mean believed?

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It was believed that he was the only child.

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Because his parents only raised him for two years, his biological parents, and then he

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got adopted.

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Oh, okay.

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So we don't know if they had any of their children.

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Fair.

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In December of 1937, Joseph's father abandoned him and his mother, seemingly out of the blue,

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leaving Judith feeling as though she could not care for Joseph.

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I know.

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I actually lied.

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He was with his mom for like four years, but his parents together for two.

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Yeah, so it's like already like, she's like, I can't tell.

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Tays old this time.

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She would put Joseph into foster care at just two years old, and he would stay in the system

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for another two years, his mother visiting him once a week during this time.

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Oh, wow.

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What a lady.

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So yeah, she felt she couldn't take care of him on her own, foster care, but she was

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still visiting him.

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It's like, you can't have your cake and eat it too, lady.

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Like just either take care of him full time or put him in foster care.

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Well, she better be working like three fucking jobs whilst he doesn't have them, which I

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doubt she is.

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It is thought that this is when Joseph would develop pretty severe separation anxiety as

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anybody would in this situation.

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Right.

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He would live in and out of different homes until he would eventually be adopted by Austrian

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immigrants, Steven and Anna Callinger on October 15th, 1939.

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It's probably Anna, right?

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Not Anna.

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Anna, I'm sorry.

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Anna.

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I know I always say Anna, but you know, Anna from Mitchell's is like, it's Anna.

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Yeah.

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Unfortunately, Joseph would not be adopted into a loving family, and instead it was quite

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the opposite, which like really fucking sucks.

235
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,800
Joseph would suffer horrendous abuse at the hands of his foster parents, including frequent

236
00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,600
floggings, beatings with a hammer, and being burnt with hot irons.

237
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,520
What the fuck?

238
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,120
So your mother thinks you can't take care of you, but you can foster care and you get

239
00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,640
adopted into this shit hole.

240
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,960
That's fucking awful.

241
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,120
It's terrible.

242
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:57,240
Sometime in 1941, Joseph would overhear another child say the word fuck, and he would in turn

243
00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,640
use this word at home.

244
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:05,000
In response to this, his father would beat him with a leather strap, and his mother beat

245
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,880
him with a wooden spoon.

246
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:13,080
The only reason you would fucking adopt a child just to beat the shit out of them is

247
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,240
if you're a fucking monster.

248
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,240
Yeah.

249
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,240
Yeah, shit.

250
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,920
Like I don't even, I can't even come up with a worse name.

251
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,720
It just, that's ridiculous.

252
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:29,280
That is somebody that is already experiencing either part of the cycle of abuse or has been

253
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:35,560
abused or mentally feels that that's how they get gratification somehow.

254
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:37,320
And that's fucking disgusting.

255
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,000
It's so disgusting and honestly like it happens way more than we realize.

256
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,760
I don't understand how it keeps fucking happening.

257
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:45,480
Like, because nobody checks up on the kids?

258
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:46,480
Exactly.

259
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,480
No one checks up on the kids and there's not extensive background checks on the people

260
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:50,840
that are looking to foster.

261
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:51,840
Right.

262
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,760
The question is very, you know, serious and very detailed fostering, not so much.

263
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:56,760
No.

264
00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,640
Every foster caregiver I think should go through a psyche valve.

265
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,920
I completely agree.

266
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:08,240
So just as a reminder, he got beat this time for using the word fuck at home.

267
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:12,760
He was then grounded for a week, but he was never told what the word meant or why he was

268
00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,560
being punished for saying it.

269
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,560
Is that his account?

270
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:18,520
Well, yes, but still.

271
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,720
He was like, okay, they never told me that word was bad.

272
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:22,720
Yeah.

273
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,080
So I have no idea why they're beating me, essentially.

274
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,200
But again, I mean, he's young.

275
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,240
He's probably five at this point though.

276
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:29,240
Yeah.

277
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:30,960
Either way, fucking ridiculous.

278
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,360
There's no good reason to abuse.

279
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,480
Yeah, fucking ridiculous.

280
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:35,480
Yeah.

281
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,000
Fuck, fuck.

282
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,480
This physical abuse was so horrific, in fact, that at the age of six years old in September

283
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:47,280
of 1943, Joseph was taken to the hospital and underwent surgery for a hernia that he

284
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,160
had developed as a result.

285
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,160
At the age of six.

286
00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,160
That's awful.

287
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,160
And nobody said shit.

288
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:55,160
Nobody did anything.

289
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:56,160
Nobody did anything.

290
00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,400
After being released from the hospital, Joseph's adoptive parents told him that the doctors

291
00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:08,000
gave him surgery to keep his, quote, bird small and make it not work.

292
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,200
They literally, that's what they call this penis if no one caught on.

293
00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:15,440
They literally said the doctor made it so that you can't use that ever and it's going

294
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,720
to be that small forever.

295
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,160
Why would they say that?

296
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,640
Because they're fucking horrible.

297
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,800
Tell me these people are dead or, well, now they're probably dead, but tell me these

298
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,640
people were fucking held accountable.

299
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,160
Lowkey, I wrote this research like probably a month ago and so I'm like still like what

300
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,040
the fuck, like every time I re-read this I'm like Jesus.

301
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:39,240
I needed some time to like digest before I resented it to the world.

302
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:43,280
Although Joseph had to undergo surgery, the abuse would not stop when they returned home

303
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,320
and it seemingly got worse even once they got back home.

304
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,920
Among the punishments endured back home were being whipped with belts, being locked inside

305
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:59,200
closets, kneeling on jagged rocks, out, engaging in self-injury like they forced him to hurt

306
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:04,640
himself, being starved and even being forced to eat excrement.

307
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,400
Why isn't this on the Patreon episode?

308
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,400
This is brutal.

309
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:08,400
I told you it's really bad.

310
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,400
This is brutal.

311
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:14,160
I almost did this for the Patreon episode but I just, it's bad, I know.

312
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,320
And that's why that content warning was so hefty.

313
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,320
Yeah.

314
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:23,200
In 1943, a seven-year-old Joseph stole a book of prayers from school and when he got home

315
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,480
his parents would discover the book and his possession.

316
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:32,120
They would punish him for this by making him kneel on sandpaper for an hour every night

317
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:36,120
for however, who knows long, how long, I mean.

318
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,280
Yeah, like how do you come up with this shit?

319
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,720
It's like literally, it's like who thinks of this shit?

320
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,520
If I saw this in a movie I'd be like that's ridiculous.

321
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:44,520
They're fucking demented.

322
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:45,520
Yeah.

323
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,760
It's disgusting.

324
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:53,560
In early 1944, Joseph was hit on the head of four times with a hammer by his mother because

325
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:58,200
he had asked if he could go on a field trip to the zoo with his classmates.

326
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,200
With a hammer?

327
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,920
And he was seven?

328
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,640
Yeah, around.

329
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,800
Oh my god.

330
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,240
When Joseph was just eight years old he was reportedly sexually assaulted at Knife Point

331
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,120
by a group of neighborhood boys.

332
00:17:10,120 --> 00:17:11,120
Oh Jesus.

333
00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:14,560
It's like, it just keeps getting more horrendous.

334
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:16,480
Yeah, we're gonna keep going.

335
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,760
On Joseph's ninth birthday he did not receive any presents from his friends at school and

336
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,360
he got very upset about this.

337
00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:24,720
I mean, he's nine, of course.

338
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,840
You're thinking of what's his face?

339
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:27,840
Popsicle.

340
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:28,840
Popsicle?

341
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:29,840
Well not popsicle but-

342
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:30,840
But Elliot Rogers is your father.

343
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:31,840
Yeah, Elliot Rogers, yeah.

344
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,160
Died on your birthday.

345
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,920
Joseph was frequently rebelling at school and decided to cut everyone's coats while they

346
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:43,360
were hanging up as punishment for them not getting him gifts, which is like-

347
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,360
Elliot Rogers.

348
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:45,360
Like, it's kind of awesome.

349
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,920
I mean, at least he's not like physically harming anyone.

350
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:49,920
But he's nine.

351
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:50,920
But he's missing, yeah.

352
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:51,920
It's true.

353
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,320
It's a little extreme for nine.

354
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,840
Okay, but what he's seeing at home, like no fucking wonder he's acting up at school.

355
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,920
He'd treat him like shit, like literal shit.

356
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,000
It's true, he could have stabbed anybody with that knife but instead chose to cut up

357
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,640
coats.

358
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,600
In January of 1947, Joseph would begin stealing money from his parents and offering to take

359
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,920
some school kids to the movies in an attempt to gain friendship.

360
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,560
Aw, you know.

361
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,840
His parents would shortly find out that Joseph was stealing the money from them and they

362
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,360
punished him by burning his fingertips on the stove.

363
00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:25,600
Ow, again.

364
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,000
Like, again, where do you think of these things?

365
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,880
I'm not trying to victim blame whatsoever but you need to think that he wasn't gonna

366
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,600
get in trouble if he was stealing money?

367
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,240
I think that he thought I'm gonna get abused either way so I might as well just act out.

368
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:42,440
Exactly.

369
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:43,560
That makes total sense actually.

370
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,120
Which my next line is, this would not stop Joseph from stealing money from his parents,

371
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,920
however, and he decided that the pain of burning his fingers was worth having friends.

372
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,880
Which is really fucking sad.

373
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,160
That's like Carl Pansram or some shit.

374
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,160
Pansram.

375
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,160
Pansram.

376
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,440
Yeah, no seriously, it's like, yeah, it's fucking hurts when they burn my fingers but

377
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,720
at least I'll have friends because I took them to the movies.

378
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,680
It's really fucking sad.

379
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,760
That's fucking nuts.

380
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,240
It was at the age of 13 that Joseph really began experimenting with different feelings

381
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,580
of his.

382
00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:17,360
He would carve out holes in his bedroom wall that he would use for masturbation and he

383
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,440
would look at photos of both men and women sexually during this time.

384
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,440
How do you fuck drywall?

385
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:23,440
Doesn't that hurt?

386
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:24,720
I would think that that would hurt.

387
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,720
I don't know, I don't have a penis.

388
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:27,720
True.

389
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:28,720
Well, I've never fucked drywall.

390
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:29,720
I get emails.

391
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,360
Just kidding, please don't email us.

392
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,360
Please don't email us.

393
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:33,360
Jesus.

394
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:34,360
Please don't do it.

395
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:35,360
Don't do that.

396
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,240
No unsolicited pictures please.

397
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,520
It was during this time as well that Joseph began to realize that he was only able to

398
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,520
achieve orgasm if there was a knife close by and soon after he would begin stabbing

399
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,660
the photos to become aroused.

400
00:19:52,660 --> 00:19:54,440
So we can see where this is fucking going.

401
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:55,440
At 13?

402
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:56,440
At 13.

403
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,480
But like, I'm sorry, what the fuck do you expect this kid to do?

404
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:01,480
Yeah.

405
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,440
What I mean not you, but just anyone.

406
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,240
He's had zero love his whole life.

407
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:07,640
He's 13.

408
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,720
He obviously is being taught that if you love someone this is what you do to them.

409
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:12,720
So what the fuck is he doing?

410
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,720
Is there anything wrong?

411
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:14,720
That's so true.

412
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:20,520
You know, kids that have grown up abused, whether it be verbally or physically, whatever,

413
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,720
they come to a point to where they think that's what you do when you love someone.

414
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:26,720
Yeah.

415
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,160
Yeah, I totally see that.

416
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,200
In July of 1949, Joseph somehow is able to convince his parents to send him to camp for

417
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,760
two weeks.

418
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,160
Somehow.

419
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:43,400
While he was there, he was able to steal a scope off of a rifle and keep it as a souvenir.

420
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:44,400
Great.

421
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,400
Why the fuck was he that close to a rifle?

422
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:47,400
I can't.

423
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:48,400
He's hanging out.

424
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:49,400
Seriously.

425
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,640
Well, it was the 1940s or 1950s or something.

426
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,560
World War II was already going on or had happened already.

427
00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,200
So I don't think it's that uncommon for like 14, 15 year olds to be walking around with

428
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,200
rifles at camp.

429
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,200
That's true.

430
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,840
But no, I think it was like maybe like a security thing at camp and he like got a hold of it

431
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:05,840
somehow.

432
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:06,840
Like it wasn't supposed to be with the kids.

433
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,840
Yeah, but they taught kids how to shoot guns at a very amazing gun is what I'm saying.

434
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:12,840
True.

435
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:17,760
So after he stole this scope off of the rifle, 10 days later he's now returning home from

436
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:18,880
camp.

437
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,080
This is when Joseph can remember hearing voices in his head for the very first time.

438
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,560
We hear that a lot.

439
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:30,320
He claims that the voices were telling him to cut someone and he decided to act on this

440
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,560
persuasion as he boarded a bus with a knife.

441
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,560
He's like what 14, 15?

442
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:37,640
Yeah.

443
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,640
Once on the bus, Joseph spotted another young boy and decided to follow him after the boy

444
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,680
had gotten off the bus.

445
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,800
He caught up to the young boy and somehow was able to lure him into the woods like near

446
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:48,800
a stream.

447
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,720
I don't know if he was like, Hey, come see this cool thing or whatever.

448
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,600
Come see this stream.

449
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,720
Once they reached the stream, Joseph held the knife at the boy and demanded him to take

450
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,520
off his pants.

451
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:04,040
The boy complied, but instead of harming him, Joseph took off running as soon as the boy

452
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,240
complied and never physically harmed him.

453
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,640
I guess he got nervous or like in over his head or something.

454
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:17,520
Or maybe yeah, or maybe, well, he's already said that he wanted to harm someone.

455
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:18,520
Yeah.

456
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:20,960
But yeah, maybe he did get scared or maybe that was enough.

457
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:21,960
Enough, yeah.

458
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,720
Like enough in control.

459
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:24,720
Satisfied.

460
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:25,720
Yeah.

461
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,200
That's actually interesting that you say that because we kind of talk about escalation

462
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,560
a lot and how things start off like kind of minuscule and then they tend to escalate

463
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,680
and get worse and worse every time.

464
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:39,160
So after this, Joseph wasn't very satisfied with his performance and he would actually

465
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,840
do this same thing three more times, but changing it like a little bit each time.

466
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,720
Like over the course of a few days or like a week.

467
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,720
I don't really know.

468
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,200
It was within, yeah, probably a few weeks.

469
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,200
Yeah.

470
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,200
Not a long period of time.

471
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,600
But the last time that Joseph would do this, he would actually reenact what happened to

472
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,880
him a few years prior when he was sexually assaulted by, remember I told you that, of

473
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:01,880
boys.

474
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:08,280
So what did happen to Joseph, according to him, was these boys held him at knife point

475
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,280
and one of them bit his penis essentially.

476
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,200
So at this time, Joseph is now doing this to another young boy.

477
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,520
He's holding the boy at knife point and biting his genitals, which is very strange.

478
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,000
That is very strange.

479
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000
Definitely.

480
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,200
Definitely sexual abuse, but it's strange to me.

481
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:31,600
Those boys that did that to him, whether or not that's true, because again it was alleged,

482
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,000
if they did that, then they clearly saw that somewhere else.

483
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,680
And if that didn't happen, then who's to say that Joseph's parents weren't doing that

484
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:39,680
to him?

485
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,680
That's true.

486
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,000
Or having someone else do it to him.

487
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,160
So although he was experimenting with these very inappropriate acts, Joseph was also super

488
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,800
interested in other things such as the theater.

489
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,800
Oh, he's a philanthropist.

490
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,920
The same year, 1939, so again, he's still 13 at this point, by the way.

491
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,600
I think we said 14, 15 earlier, but he's still 13.

492
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,200
He said 49.

493
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,320
He would receive a lead role in a school play.

494
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,320
Oh.

495
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,320
A Christmas Carol.

496
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,320
Oh.

497
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,320
He would be Ebenezer's Scrooge.

498
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,320
Ebenezer.

499
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,680
He ended up doing extremely well in the play, and this would actually lead Joseph to developing

500
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:20,960
a love for acting and wanting to pursue it as a career, as well as becoming a playwright.

501
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,400
Huh, that's really sweet.

502
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,520
That is really sweet.

503
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:27,040
And that's so, like, it's so innocent and humble.

504
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,040
It's like, endearing.

505
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,960
Yeah, it's just really sweet.

506
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,640
It's really cute.

507
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,040
When he expressed his feelings about acting to his parents, however, they didn't encourage

508
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,600
him like parents should do.

509
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,440
But instead, they laughed at his face and told him that it was ridiculous that he liked

510
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,360
acting so much.

511
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:46,360
Sad.

512
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:47,920
That's fucking sad.

513
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,160
The fact that he has an actual passion for something other than stabbing people and

514
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,160
biting genitals.

515
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,160
They're like, that's ridiculous.

516
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,160
That's ridiculous.

517
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,160
You'll never make it.

518
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,160
Seriously, I guarantee you they fucking said that.

519
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,160
Never gonna make it.

520
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,160
Did they?

521
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,160
Did they?

522
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,160
What is it?

523
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,160
Lock hard?

524
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,160
Oh, I haven't seen that movie in a long time.

525
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:06,160
Oh, really?

526
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,800
Oh, when Kristen Wiig was saying, you're never gonna make it?

527
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:09,120
You know, like on the phone?

528
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:10,120
No.

529
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:14,960
She just doesn't want him to make it successfully as a musician because she's alone all the

530
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,200
time raising all these children, right?

531
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:18,840
That's- I fucking love her so much.

532
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:20,120
Me too.

533
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:24,480
When Joseph was 15, he met a girl by the name of Hilda Bergman while hanging out at

534
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,840
a theater his parents finally allowed him to visit once a week.

535
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:28,840
A what?

536
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:29,840
A theater.

537
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:30,840
Okay, thank you.

538
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:31,840
Yeah.

539
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:32,840
Oh, I didn't hear you.

540
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:33,840
What was that?

541
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:34,840
A theater.

542
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,160
His parents absolutely despised the idea of Joseph hanging out with girls and especially

543
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:40,880
having a girlfriend.

544
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,880
Why?

545
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:43,160
Because they wanted to control his life.

546
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,160
That's awful.

547
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,040
They told him that he was not to hang out with Hilda anymore.

548
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,080
Joseph did not listen to his parents, however, and he would continue to hang out with Hilda

549
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,080
behind their backs.

550
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,080
Good.

551
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,240
Good for him.

552
00:25:55,240 --> 00:26:00,200
In September of 1951, at the age of 15, Joseph would lose his virginity to Hilda and the

553
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,000
two would continue dating, sex becoming a very big part of their relationship with

554
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:05,760
sex-

555
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,160
But I mean, they're also young teenagers.

556
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:08,160
Yeah, of course.

557
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,640
I mean, it just kind of- I mean, come on.

558
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,240
But at the same time, don't you think the parents doing that probably forced them together

559
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,240
more?

560
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:16,240
Oh yeah, absolutely.

561
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,000
People need to stop doing that, right?

562
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,680
If you don't like somebody else's partner, don't talk about it.

563
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,400
Not only that, but that person's chosen to make that decision for themselves.

564
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,400
Now, of course, if they're in a dangerous situation, you should definitely-

565
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,800
Yeah, I was gonna say, let's talk about 30-year-old dating or 15-year-old.

566
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,800
No, of course.

567
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:34,800
Yeah.

568
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080
Or of course, God forbid, physical violence or any of that other stuff.

569
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:43,200
I'm just saying if you just don't like them because you just- you know, because they take

570
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,360
time away from you as a friend or whatever it is, that's like the best way to push somebody

571
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:49,360
together.

572
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:50,360
Well, and that's the thing.

573
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:52,040
They don't fucking care about his well-being.

574
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,560
They want to control everything he does.

575
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,000
If he has a girlfriend, then he might tell her things that they've done to him.

576
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,960
Or he might not be home as often for them to abuse him or whatever, you know?

577
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,840
That's what I'm thinking is that they're probably just- they don't want him to have

578
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,400
her fill his head, quote-unquote, with a bunch of independence.

579
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,720
Yeah, exactly.

580
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,200
So this same year again, he's 15, Joseph would experience what he described as being his

581
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,200
mission.

582
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,200
Uh-oh.

583
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:22,120
He stated that around this time, God had told him that his mission was to save and heal

584
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:26,280
people through their feet.

585
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Like Jesus?

586
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,520
I don't know.

587
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:35,760
Due to this quote epiphany, Joseph would conduct over 40,000 experiments with people's feet

588
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,160
over the course of the next 11 years.

589
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,480
Was he just not in the feet?

590
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,680
He had to have just been in the feet.

591
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:41,680
He's Tarantino.

592
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,240
He's yeah, he's Tarantino.

593
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,340
Yeah, so he thought that he could heal people through like foot-

594
00:27:48,340 --> 00:27:49,340
Fetishist.

595
00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:52,640
Vibes or something, I don't know.

596
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:53,640
Fetishist.

597
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Still 15, Joseph would move into his own place away from his parents.

598
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,360
I don't know how the fuck he was able to, thank God he was able to get away from them.

599
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,600
He probably didn't take anything with him, he probably just left, left just a bag.

600
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,280
Although he wasn't living at home, he would however continue to work at his father's

601
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:13,080
shoe shop, seemingly where he was able to begin conducting his experiments.

602
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:14,080
Shoemaker.

603
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,080
I mean the shoemaker.

604
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:20,160
It was at this time as well that Joseph really started hanging out with peers and developing

605
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,160
like close friends.

606
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,160
That's good.

607
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,160
He was still dating Hilda and the two would frequently hang out with friends and play poker.

608
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,160
That's cute.

609
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:28,840
Same, relatable.

610
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,400
Around this time as well is when Joseph begins heavily drinking, 15.

611
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:40,440
Again, not super abnormal, but heavily drinking is like kind of dangerous for, I don't know.

612
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,440
Well yeah, of course it's dangerous for 15.

613
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:43,440
I'm not gonna say I didn't do it.

614
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,680
No, well I didn't.

615
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,080
I was probably smoking weed by then, but same.

616
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,440
With you.

617
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:51,440
Do not.

618
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,440
Don't put that out there.

619
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,440
How dare you.

620
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,440
Do you want me to delete that?

621
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,440
No, it's fine.

622
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:58,440
We're sisters.

623
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,440
Yeah, I don't do it anymore.

624
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Sisterly bonding.

625
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:05,920
So this would continue for the next year and a half or so, again the heavily drinking

626
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,080
and hanging out with friends and poker.

627
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:12,640
And at age 17, Joseph would drop out of school in order to work full time at the shoe shop,

628
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,240
which is really lame because like he's probably so close to graduating.

629
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,920
Yeah, that's, I was gonna say, because he's what, 18?

630
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:18,920
17.

631
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:19,920
17.

632
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,920
Yeah, just stick it out.

633
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:21,920
It's fine.

634
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,360
So, Joseph and Hilda would quickly get married and the two, well not quickly, they've been

635
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,080
together for a few years, but they would have two children together over the next three

636
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,080
years.

637
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,080
Okay.

638
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,080
So very young parents.

639
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:34,080
Okay.

640
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,960
One of these children's names was Michael Callinger.

641
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,840
Hilda would leave Joseph in September of 1956, citing domestic abuse as the reason.

642
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:41,840
I'm sure.

643
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:42,840
Which is really a bummer.

644
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,040
But again, the cycle of abuse, we always talk about that.

645
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,040
Right.

646
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,520
Within a year of Hilda leaving him, Joseph would enter a mental institution at the age

647
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,640
of 21 on September 4th, 1957.

648
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,480
Well, I mean, come on, like he's clearly needed the help.

649
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,120
He had originally gone to the mental institution because of a suspected lesion on his brain.

650
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:08,160
I guess he was having like some sort of maybe blackouts or maybe seizure activity or something

651
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,720
that maybe they needed to take a further look.

652
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,600
Well, he did say that he was already hearing voices.

653
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,600
Yeah, exactly.

654
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:14,600
He might too.

655
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:15,600
Did you hear my voice?

656
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,600
He's really grumbling.

657
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:17,600
Are you okay?

658
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:18,600
Yeah.

659
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:23,880
I've been awake a long time today.

660
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:24,880
Oh my god.

661
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,120
Yes, exactly that too.

662
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,680
It's probably going to keep happening.

663
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,680
Do you want some water?

664
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:31,680
Nah, it's alright.

665
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:32,680
Nah, it's alright.

666
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:33,680
That is me.

667
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,560
Anyway, so he thought that he might have had a lesion on his brain, whether he thought

668
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,400
that or maybe he had gotten some sort of outside influence to tell him that.

669
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:42,400
Yeah.

670
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,000
But after tests were completed, they revealed only a quote, Psychopathological Nervous

671
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,000
Disorder.

672
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,760
Just a long-ass word.

673
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,800
So this is a super 1950s way of saying like any generalized mental disorder like anxiety,

674
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:58,800
depression, OCD, etc.

675
00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,800
Things like that.

676
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,520
They didn't really have a term for all those different things.

677
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,560
So they just said, Psychopathological Nervous Disorder.

678
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:06,560
You'll be fine.

679
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:07,560
Yeah.

680
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:08,560
Just take some rest.

681
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:09,560
Take a nap.

682
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,320
Doctors would also state to him that he was probably just dealing with dehydration and

683
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,680
lost appetite due to his recent divorce.

684
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:16,680
Oh no.

685
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,000
Just drink some water.

686
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,000
Just drink some water.

687
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,360
Well, you've really been going through it.

688
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,320
So it's probably just that.

689
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,440
Then you're probably just dehydrated.

690
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,040
The voices are just your conscience.

691
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,040
See?

692
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,040
That's it.

693
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:28,160
If you just need to drink some water, you'll be fine.

694
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,160
That's normal.

695
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,160
It's not funny though.

696
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,160
It's really actually shitty.

697
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:32,160
It's not.

698
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,160
Really, I'm...

699
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,680
We are fortunate to be growing up in a world right now that knows so much about the human

700
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:39,680
brain.

701
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:40,680
Yeah, absolutely.

702
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:41,680
We don't have to do that.

703
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,920
Just hydrate, sleep on it.

704
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,360
Go ahead, just take a bottle of water and come in the morning.

705
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:48,440
Yeah, of course.

706
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,920
So Joseph would of course not receive any ongoing mental health treatment from this

707
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,680
point forward and he would be sent on his way.

708
00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:01,320
Joseph would quickly remarry after leaving the mental institution on April 20th, 1958

709
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,800
to marry the nurse.

710
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:09,080
The woman that he married was named Elizabeth Baumgard and they would have five children

711
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,080
together.

712
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,080
Okay.

713
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,080
So he has seven.

714
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,080
Seven, total.

715
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,160
Unfortunately, the cycle of abuse would not end with Joseph, but it would get progressively

716
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,160
worse.

717
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,640
It later came out that Joseph kept a torture chamber of sorts in their home basement in

718
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:28,440
order to punish the children whenever he felt an itch in his hand that just told them that

719
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,440
they misbehaved, told him they misbehaved.

720
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,320
He said, my hand's itchy.

721
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,640
You probably fucked up somewhere.

722
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,640
So that's crazy.

723
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:36,920
Yeah.

724
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,240
This would frequently happen quote after midnight and quote, only one of us would be taken down

725
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,040
at a time according to one of his children.

726
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,600
Only happened after midnight because that's when Dad was drunk.

727
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,600
Exactly.

728
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,600
Fuck.

729
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,400
This basement allegedly was equipped with a kerosene lamp quote, rope to tie us up with

730
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,760
and shoe soles, a rubber hose and a cat on nine tails.

731
00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,960
So why do you need that for discipline?

732
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:00,960
I don't understand that.

733
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:01,960
Yeah, it's terrible.

734
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,240
I mean, I don't even believe in spanking.

735
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,640
I really don't.

736
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,720
People can disagree with me until the calyx come home, but that's just me personally.

737
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,000
I don't believe in that.

738
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,440
Some parents still do it.

739
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,320
To me, it's just awful.

740
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,360
Why would you need utensils?

741
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,520
Of course, but that's what he's been shown his whole life is my parents did this to me.

742
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,480
It's the same mindset, not to the point fingers, but a lot of the older generation has that

743
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,320
mindset of I dealt with it.

744
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,960
I was able to get through with it, not abuse necessarily, but whatever they had to deal

745
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,200
with as a child, you can deal with it because I dealt with it and I'm just fine.

746
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:39,960
But we always say, do what you can do until you know better and then do better.

747
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,720
Once you know better than do better, don't just keep doing it.

748
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,400
For those people that don't know, because I've heard the term kind of nine tails, I

749
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,440
had to look it up again just to make sure.

750
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:50,440
It's like a flogger.

751
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,440
It has nine strips at the end.

752
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,440
Oh, leather.

753
00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:00,440
Yeah, leather and you use it kind of like a whip.

754
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,920
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755
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756
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757
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758
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761
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:39,120
So this abuse was severe and not that again he didn't have to go through it himself as

762
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,360
a child but it was hoped that the cycle would end with Joseph.

763
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,400
But it did not and he would often threaten to kill one or more of his children and would

764
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,040
frequently beat them with various objects.

765
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,640
Like you said, why do you need utensils?

766
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,760
Why do you need to tell your kids you're gonna kill them?

767
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:55,760
This is really sad.

768
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,280
The kids would frequently make the choice to go to bed around seven or eight because they

769
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,480
knew that they would more than likely be woken up after midnight.

770
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,960
So they would go to bed early in order to get enough sleep.

771
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,240
That is, that's adaptation.

772
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:12,240
That's really fucked up.

773
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,240
Yeah.

774
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:16,120
That your kids have to make that type of a decision.

775
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,120
Yeah.

776
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,360
I know.

777
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,400
Although the children would later testify about the horrific childhood, they all seemed

778
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,840
to collectively agree that Joseph was extremely mentally ill.

779
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:28,840
So they knew.

780
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,080
I mean it's like, it's kind of like Albert Fish too.

781
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,360
That kind of reminds me of Albert Fish.

782
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,520
That the kids were just like, well that's daddy.

783
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,520
Yeah.

784
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Okay.

785
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,560
So this horrific abuse would go on for nearly 10 years.

786
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:47,280
Joseph being in and out of mental institutions the whole time for amnesia and arson.

787
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:48,880
Two completely different things.

788
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,120
Well there's the fire setting, right?

789
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,720
And then did they talk about, was there animals on here yet?

790
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:57,840
Not that we know of, but probably so.

791
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,600
And he's in his 20s at this point.

792
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:06,400
In 1958, at the age of just 22, Joseph would set fire to his home in order to collect insurance

793
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:07,400
money.

794
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,400
What?

795
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,400
Yeah.

796
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:10,400
I, okay.

797
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:16,880
But it seems as though the McDonald's triad, if you will, is coming on way later in his

798
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,160
situation.

799
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,680
He's extremely mentally ill.

800
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,920
He probably has the mental capacity of somebody much younger because of the abuse he endured.

801
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:30,080
So he's probably setting fires at 22 when another person might be setting fires at like

802
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,080
nine or 10.

803
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,080
Right.

804
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:39,360
I think that he also had very specific coping techniques like with the stabbing of the photos

805
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:40,360
and all that.

806
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,080
Like that kept these symptoms at bay.

807
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,080
Yeah, maybe.

808
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,800
But he was also looking to collect insurance money like for the most of the fires.

809
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,800
Yeah.

810
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,360
In fact, after this one he was able to collect $1,600 from the fire.

811
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,120
Didn't get caught or anything like that.

812
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,360
You got the conversion on that?

813
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,360
I actually don't.

814
00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,680
Let me look it up.

815
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,800
So it says about 20 grand, maybe a little bit more.

816
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,840
That's not a lot though for a whole house.

817
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,840
Yeah.

818
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:06,840
I don't know if it was the whole house.

819
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,240
I don't think it like burned to the ground.

820
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,440
I think it was just maybe like damaged.

821
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,440
Burn to the ground.

822
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,360
What is it in the, the impersonators like, tell us what the talking llama is and what

823
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:17,360
the hell is the ground?

824
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,360
What do you mean and?

825
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,480
Just like, okay, tell us what the talking llama is.

826
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,360
Oh, what the hell is the ground?

827
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,800
In July of 1959, a 23 year old Joseph would be admitted back to the psychiatric hospital

828
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,720
after a suicide attempt.

829
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,720
In this attempt he had swallowed staples and paperclips.

830
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:37,720
Like horrific.

831
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,120
Like, that's painful.

832
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,120
What the fuck?

833
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,120
Yeah.

834
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:43,120
I don't even know if that would, these ideas.

835
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:44,120
Yeah.

836
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,200
I don't even know if that would necessarily end someone's life either.

837
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,720
That just sounds really fucking painful.

838
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:49,720
It does sound painful.

839
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:53,640
I think maybe the thought behind it is like piercing maybe like an internal organ.

840
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:54,640
Yeah, maybe.

841
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,840
I'm not sure.

842
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,320
This would be unsuccessful and after he was physically healthy again, Joseph would be

843
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,720
released yet again without ongoing care once more.

844
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,360
After he swallowed metal.

845
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,360
Mm-hmm.

846
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,920
Yep.

847
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:14,960
In August of 1965, at 29 years old, Joseph would set fire to his home once again.

848
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:15,960
Nothing would come of it.

849
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,600
No insurance money, no suspicion.

850
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,920
He just, just set it on fire.

851
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:20,920
Not the whole thing.

852
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:21,920
Okay.

853
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,560
In October 1967, at 31 years old, Joseph would set yet another fire at home.

854
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:29,600
Again, nothing coming of it.

855
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:31,160
Are his children living in the home too?

856
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,160
Yes.

857
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,160
What the fuck?

858
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:38,640
A few years later, on January 23rd, 1972, at the age of 36, Joseph's oldest daughter

859
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,720
would run away from home.

860
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:41,920
Can't fucking blame her.

861
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:42,920
Yeah.

862
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:43,920
Sorry.

863
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,960
At this point, just to remind everyone, he's still married and terrorizing his family,

864
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,760
so his daughter, a preteen at this point, would take it upon herself to leave the house.

865
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:56,400
When Joseph found out about this, he brought his daughter back home and burned her on her

866
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:01,320
thigh with a searing hot iron as punishment.

867
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,000
For not wanting to be abused?

868
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,000
Yeah, exactly.

869
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,600
She left because she didn't want to be abused.

870
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:07,600
Yeah.

871
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:14,400
After this incident, three of his children would go to police and report their father

872
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,640
for the long years of abuse they had endured at his hands.

873
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,960
Joseph would be arrested on January 30th, just a week after he burned his daughter.

874
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,720
When questioned by the police, both Joseph and his wife stated that the children had

875
00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:31,800
run away and they both denied any abuse had taken place.

876
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,800
But what about the burn?

877
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:33,800
Yeah, exactly.

878
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:34,800
I mean, she burned herself.

879
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,080
She burned herself for attention.

880
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:44,400
While in jail awaiting trial, Joseph was given an IQ test, which he scored an 82 on.

881
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,480
Just to put it into perspective, if anyone hasn't heard us say this before, the average

882
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,040
is about 100 to 110.

883
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,520
He would be evaluated by psychiatrists during this time as well and diagnosed with paranoid

884
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:56,520
schizophrenia.

885
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,680
Okay, so they're gonna do something about this, right?

886
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:02,600
Because now he has a diagnosis.

887
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:09,480
The state psychiatrist recommended that he be supervised with his family and he was released.

888
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:14,360
They literally told his family just supervise him.

889
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,000
And he'll be all Gucci.

890
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,000
No meds.

891
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,000
They're not doctors.

892
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,520
Your fucking family's not psychiatrists.

893
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,000
And the whole reason this is happening is because he's abusing the family.

894
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Exactly.

895
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,400
The children would later recant their allegations, by the way.

896
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,640
So who knows what the fuck he did to them to get them to do that?

897
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:35,640
Yeah.

898
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,680
God, that's awful.

899
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:41,760
He would be ultimately found guilty of child abuse, however, and sentenced to four years

900
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:46,480
probation with mandatory psychiatric treatment throughout.

901
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:47,480
Okay.

902
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:52,320
Two years later, although he was sentenced to mandatory psych treatment, it clearly was

903
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,840
not being taken care of because Joseph's delusions were beginning to grow.

904
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,000
So there's nothing being done.

905
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,440
He might be getting regular psych evals, but he's not medicated.

906
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,440
He's not being medicated.

907
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:06,880
And somebody that has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, unfortunately needs

908
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,680
to be medicated to fully relieve their symptoms.

909
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:10,680
Of course.

910
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:11,680
You know what?

911
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:12,680
Let me rephrase.

912
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,000
He might be able to be worked out with through talk therapy, depending on the severity of

913
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,000
it.

914
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,200
But he's receiving no help whatsoever.

915
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,720
Exactly.

916
00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:28,040
In June of 1974, at 38 years old, Joseph began hallucinating constantly.

917
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:33,400
He was known to hold conversations with a disembodied voice he referred to as Charlie, and he would

918
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:39,960
frequently say that he would receive divine orders from God.

919
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:40,960
Very clear.

920
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,120
Very, very clear.

921
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,120
This is actually really interesting because we had just talked about delusional disorder,

922
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,840
like not that long ago, and it usually presents itself in the early 40s.

923
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,440
He's almost 40 at this point.

924
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:53,440
Oh, it's interesting.

925
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,440
Yeah.

926
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:55,440
The orders from...

927
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:59,240
Oh, not to mention, he's had these for a while, but it's getting worse at this point.

928
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:05,360
The orders from God included demanding that Joseph murder young boys and sever their genitals.

929
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:11,680
Meanwhile, one of Joseph's young sons, Joey, Joseph IV, was at the time checked into a

930
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,440
psychiatric hospital as he was experiencing some type of psychosis.

931
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:22,360
He would however be released in May of 1974 after being evaluated as quote, seriously

932
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,040
disturbed.

933
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,520
So it's like a fucking...

934
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:27,520
What is it?

935
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,520
Genetic?

936
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:29,520
Like, oh, you're clearly mentally ill.

937
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:30,520
Goodbye.

938
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:31,520
Yeah.

939
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:32,520
Like, to your family can take care of you.

940
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:33,520
It's fine.

941
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,640
The two of us are all housed together.

942
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:36,640
Yeah.

943
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,040
About a month later in June, Joseph would bring these orders from God to the attention

944
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,760
of his other son, Michael, and enlist his help, essentially.

945
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:53,000
Michael allegedly responded with enthusiasm, saying that he was quote, glad to do it, dad.

946
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:54,000
So are they like...

947
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,880
Remember, these delusions are telling him to kill young boys and sever their genitals.

948
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,640
He presents this to Michael and asks him to help him, and Michael's like, sure.

949
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:03,640
Yes.

950
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:09,600
11 days later, Joseph and his young son Michael would commit their first heinous crime together.

951
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:10,880
And how old was Michael?

952
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:16,440
He was about 12 at this point.

953
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,640
On July 7th, I accidentally put 2974.

954
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,040
He's a fan fighter.

955
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,040
2974.

956
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:30,000
On July 7th, 1974, Joseph and Michael would murder a 10-year-old boy from Puerto Rico by

957
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,760
the name of Jose Calazzo.

958
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,000
Jose was living in Philadelphia at the time of his murder, and after killing the boy,

959
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,840
the two would cut his genitals off and act Joseph stated God wanted him to do again.

960
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,560
About a week later in early July, Joseph came up with another plan to not only please God,

961
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,480
but to make some money in the process.

962
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,560
Oh yeah, because yeah, okay, go ahead.

963
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:58,480
Joseph had taken his other young son, Joseph IV, to a scenic spot overlooking a cliff with

964
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,000
the promise of taking photos of him.

965
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,360
Originally, he tried to get Joey to fall off the cliff by telling him to back up while

966
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,520
taking photos, but this was unsuccessful.

967
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,120
Joey's about like 14, 13 or 14 at this time.

968
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,120
This is his own kid.

969
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:19,960
Joseph had taken out a $45,000 life insurance policy on his son without his knowledge, so

970
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,520
when he did not have success with him falling off the cliff, he decided to go ahead and

971
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,120
try again.

972
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:32,080
A few days later, Joseph then attempted to lock young Joey in a burning trailer, but

973
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,480
this was unsuccessful as well.

974
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:36,400
Can you imagine being this child?

975
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,560
Like your dad's constantly trying to kill you.

976
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:39,560
Like it's clear.

977
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,720
Like maybe the cliff thing was like a misunderstanding.

978
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,280
The trailer thing, no fucking way.

979
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:44,280
No, yeah.

980
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,080
You don't recognize that that's on purpose.

981
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:52,600
Three days later, on July 28th, 1974, Joseph enlisted the help of Michael yet again to

982
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,720
get the job done.

983
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:59,920
The two together would lure Joey to a demolition site where they ultimately would drown him

984
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:05,120
and dump his body under a pile of rubble, hoping it would be destroyed along with the

985
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,120
rocks.

986
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,620
I'm speechless.

987
00:45:09,620 --> 00:45:10,620
This is ridiculous.

988
00:45:10,620 --> 00:45:11,620
I'm out of here.

989
00:45:11,620 --> 00:45:12,620
Goodbye.

990
00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:13,620
Bye.

991
00:45:13,620 --> 00:45:17,840
Joseph would almost immediately report Joey as missing and try to collect the insurance

992
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:18,840
money.

993
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,880
That is your fucking, you named him after you.

994
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,640
Are you fucking kidding me?

995
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:25,640
And the brother too.

996
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:26,640
And the brother.

997
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,400
The brother is just like, oh okay yeah, this is what, anything for dad.

998
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,320
The insurance company definitely suspected foul play, so they refused to pay out the

999
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,160
life insurance policies to Joseph.

1000
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,880
He did not argue with them, by the way.

1001
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:41,880
So he didn't even get the money?

1002
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:42,880
Nope.

1003
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:43,880
He killed the son for nothing?

1004
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:44,880
Nope.

1005
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:45,880
I mean, yep.

1006
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:46,880
I mean, yeah.

1007
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,640
A month later, on August 9th, 1974, Joey's deceased body would be found at the demolition

1008
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:53,960
site.

1009
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,920
This cause of death was unable to be determined, so the insurance company would still refuse

1010
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:58,920
to pay Joseph.

1011
00:45:58,920 --> 00:45:59,920
Yeah.

1012
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,960
Because they're not going to pay you on a missing person once the body's found there,

1013
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:03,960
like, that's fucking weird.

1014
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,800
Like, I'm not going to just pay you.

1015
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,800
Yeah, exactly.

1016
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,480
Joseph would later admit to being the perpetrator behind his son's murder.

1017
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,320
His son, again, that he named Joseph Jr. fucking ridiculous.

1018
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,840
Who did he admit that to?

1019
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:18,840
Just later.

1020
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:19,840
Much later.

1021
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:25,040
A couple of months went by with no big crimes by Joseph and Michael, but in December of

1022
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,720
1974, they would pick back up on their antics.

1023
00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:31,440
The two would break into a home in Lindenwood, New Jersey.

1024
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,560
I'm sorry, it's called Lindenwald.

1025
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,560
Lindenwald.

1026
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:35,560
Lindenwald.

1027
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,320
New Jersey, but nobody was home.

1028
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,360
They stole the items of interest and then decided to hit a second home.

1029
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,400
In this home lived a woman by herself, and Joseph was known to have sexually assaulted

1030
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,120
her after they broke in.

1031
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,800
There was really not any other information about her, but she would survive.

1032
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,640
Less than 10 days later, on December 3rd, 1974, the two would break into a home that

1033
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,720
had four women inside playing bridge together, which is like so hum-

1034
00:47:00,720 --> 00:47:01,720
That's cute.

1035
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:03,440
Like, so what is- God, what's the word?

1036
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,560
It's so- There's a word I'm looking for, and I tried to say it earlier, and I couldn't.

1037
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:09,560
It's just like genuine.

1038
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,560
I don't know what the fucking word is.

1039
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,560
So, I don't know.

1040
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,560
Okay, we'll think about it.

1041
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:15,560
Okay.

1042
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,640
So, the two, Joseph and Michael, would subdue the four women and steal nearly $20,000 worth

1043
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,920
of valuables and cash, essentially kidnapping all four women at that time and holding them

1044
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,360
hostage at gunpoint.

1045
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,960
After getting the things they wanted, the two would move along to another home, leaving

1046
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,720
the four women unharmed and another person to victimize.

1047
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:41,000
This woman is Pamela Jay, who lived in Homestead, Maryland, so they're like hop in states and

1048
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,000
stuff.

1049
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,760
The two was alone when the two men went to her door and knocked, pretending to be salesmen.

1050
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,880
I'd be like, bitch, he's 13.

1051
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,120
Yeah, like, excuse me.

1052
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:50,480
Selling what?

1053
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,080
They were able to forcibly enter the home and hold Pamela at gunpoint.

1054
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,320
While being held hostage, Pamela was forced to perform sexual acts on Joseph.

1055
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:00,320
I know.

1056
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,920
Are you ready for the doozy?

1057
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:03,920
Sure.

1058
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:08,840
A little over a month later, on January 8th, 1975, Dee Dee Romaine was at her mother's

1059
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:12,880
house caring for her grandmother, who was very ill, and her son Robert had come along

1060
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:14,800
as well.

1061
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,280
Dee Dee noticed a man and boy approaching the home around early afternoon, and the two

1062
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,160
rang the doorbell.

1063
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,880
Dee Dee would answer the door, and the man in question, Joseph Callinger, told her that

1064
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,200
he was a salesman named John Hancock.

1065
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:27,200
Okay.

1066
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:28,760
Like, fucking shut up.

1067
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:29,760
How original.

1068
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:33,520
Joseph then asked Dee Dee if anybody else was home, giving her an uneasy feeling right

1069
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:35,200
off the bat.

1070
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,600
She told the two that they needed to leave, but just as soon as she did this, Joseph would

1071
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:42,600
pull a gun on her, and he and Michael would force their way into the home.

1072
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,160
So just as a reminder, there's three people in the home, the grandmother, the granddaughter,

1073
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,080
and her son.

1074
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,480
The noise from the struggle alerted Dee Dee's young son, Robert, who came into the room

1075
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,200
to see his mother and Joseph struggling.

1076
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,960
In response to this, Robert began screaming, of course, he's young.

1077
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,440
Well, anybody would be fucking screaming.

1078
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,720
I'm 30 years old.

1079
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:04,720
I don't scream.

1080
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,520
Just lose that ability at some age.

1081
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:12,560
Joseph would then point the gun at Robert's head, stating, quote, this is a robbery.

1082
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,960
Do as I say, and no one will get hurt.

1083
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,600
He then put the gun into his pocket, grabbing a knife to use as a weapon instead.

1084
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,360
Joseph again asked if there was anybody else in the home, to which Dee Dee replied that

1085
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,800
just her ill grandmother was in bed upstairs.

1086
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,040
Michael had done a quick sleep of the home and determined that Dee Dee was in fact telling

1087
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:32,800
the truth.

1088
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,200
Joseph then shoved Dee Dee into a vacant room and asked her where he could find scissors,

1089
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:39,360
to which Dee Dee responded that she did not know.

1090
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,000
She didn't live there, you know.

1091
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,880
Joseph would gag Dee Dee, covering her eyes with tape and tried forcing her to remove

1092
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:47,800
her clothing.

1093
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,160
When she refused to do so, Joseph forcibly removed her clothing himself and also took

1094
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:55,560
off all of her jewelry, which is like really fucking scary.

1095
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,040
That's really scary.

1096
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,720
He asked Dee Dee if anybody was coming home, to which she nodded yes.

1097
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:05,560
He asked her what time they would be arriving and she held up five fingers, like five o'clock

1098
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:08,280
or five minutes, we don't know.

1099
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,200
Joseph then bound Dee Dee's ankles and elbows with electrical cords and asked Michael to

1100
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,320
check to make sure the front door was locked.

1101
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,160
Joseph would then proceed to undress Robert as well and lay him on the bed next to his

1102
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,840
tied up mother, which is like fucking disgusting.

1103
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,320
Joseph's plan was to sexually assault Dee Dee, however, when he attempted to, he was

1104
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,520
quote disgusted to find out that she was menstruating.

1105
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,720
Joseph would respond to this by forcefully removing Dee Dee's tampon and throwing it

1106
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:40,520
on the floor, which is like heinous as fuck.

1107
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:43,800
All of this is fucking gross, but that's really bad.

1108
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,960
I keep saying this is really bad, this is really bad, but it is.

1109
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,800
Shortly after this, Dee Dee's sister, Randy, would arrive at the home.

1110
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,640
She was surprised when she realized the door was locked because she's meeting her sister

1111
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:57,200
there, like she just got there.

1112
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,640
So she went ahead and rang the doorbell.

1113
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:03,200
Dee Dee was attempting to unlock the door herself when the door flung open and Joseph

1114
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,400
appeared, grabbing Randy and dragging her inside.

1115
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:08,960
Imagine that, that's fucking terrifying.

1116
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:14,960
You open like a door to a very familiar home and you see a complete stranger.

1117
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:19,840
Well like you're fumbling with your keys and the door just opens into a stranger.

1118
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,800
I bet she was like, if I had the wrong fucking house, it probably was.

1119
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,480
Joseph would put a gun to Randy's head and tell her that he was there to commit a robbery.

1120
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,960
When he demanded money, all she had to offer him was a $5 bill.

1121
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,600
Joseph then pushed Randy into the room with naked Dee Dee and Robert and Randy immediately

1122
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,860
thought that the two were dead upon entering the room.

1123
00:51:40,860 --> 00:51:44,200
She began to panic and Joseph instructed her to check on them if she thought they were

1124
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:45,200
dead.

1125
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,520
They were not.

1126
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:50,520
And Joseph then again asked for money, to which Randy told him there was some in the

1127
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,160
box on the dresser behind him.

1128
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,600
He ordered Michael to check the box while he forced Randy to undress at gunpoint.

1129
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:03,320
And the grandmother is, I'm assuming, so ill and older that she probably is-

1130
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:04,320
Like she's bedridden.

1131
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,600
She might even be like asleep.

1132
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:07,600
Yeah.

1133
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:08,600
Sorry, I keep interrupting you.

1134
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:09,600
No, I do often.

1135
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:17,040
I wonder if she could hear what was going on or if she even knew what was going on.

1136
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,720
So again, Joseph asked Randy to undress at gunpoint.

1137
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:24,680
She complied and Joseph would ask Randy if anyone else was coming home.

1138
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,120
She replied, quote, lots of people.

1139
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:28,120
Damn.

1140
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,560
She's like, fucking get ready, motherfucker.

1141
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:35,560
Joseph would then tie Randy up similarly to Didi, rolled her over and attempted to sexually

1142
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,000
assault her.

1143
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:42,760
When he discovered that Randy was also menstruating, he shouted out, quote, what is this?

1144
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,840
Is this some kind of a coup?

1145
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,160
That's actually fucking hilarious.

1146
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,360
I don't like fucking motherfucker.

1147
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:54,520
A little while later, Edwina Wiseman arrived home to find her front door locked, the owner

1148
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:55,520
of the home.

1149
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:56,520
Oh.

1150
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,160
And she was with Reda Romain and her boyfriend, Frank Welby.

1151
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,040
She leaned forward in order to ring the doorbell, but at the same time, the three were met by

1152
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,600
Joseph opening the door with a gun drawn.

1153
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,840
Again, at your own fucking home.

1154
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:09,880
At your home.

1155
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,660
This is your house.

1156
00:53:11,660 --> 00:53:16,000
He instructed them all inside and to the living room, stating if they all complied, nobody

1157
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:17,000
would get hurt.

1158
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Sure.

1159
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,000
They always say that.

1160
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,900
Joseph would remove the jewelry from the women and tied their feet up with Venetian cords

1161
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:23,900
from the curtains.

1162
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:25,960
They had like, yeah, cords.

1163
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:29,560
He would then bound Frank's hands behind his back with his own belt.

1164
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:30,560
I wouldn't let it get that far.

1165
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:31,560
I'm sorry.

1166
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,040
I think there's fucking six of us there.

1167
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,040
Yeah.

1168
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,040
And two of you.

1169
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:37,040
There's three of us.

1170
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,040
I don't care if you do have a gun.

1171
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,520
Punch the 13 year old in the face and you grab the gun.

1172
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,520
Kick him in the nads.

1173
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:42,520
Kick him in the nads.

1174
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:43,520
Kick him in the nads.

1175
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,200
And gouge the eyes and punch the gooch.

1176
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,600
Joseph would then order Michael to bound the women's hands with a cord from a nearby

1177
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:51,600
vacuum.

1178
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,560
And when he did, Michael was able to bind Reda's hands with no problem, but was having

1179
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,000
some trouble with Edwina's hands for some reason.

1180
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,640
Joseph would tell Michael not to worry about it too much as Edwina was quote, too old to

1181
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:03,640
be a problem.

1182
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,000
Let's keep that in mind.

1183
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,000
Yeah.

1184
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,000
Let's keep that in mind.

1185
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,000
Okay.

1186
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,480
The two would leave the room to check for more valuables.

1187
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:16,200
Again, someone else arrived at the front door and knocked and Joseph went to answer

1188
00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:17,200
it.

1189
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:18,200
Like a fucking clown.

1190
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,200
This is a fucking clown car.

1191
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:20,200
Yeah.

1192
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:21,200
Okay.

1193
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,200
This time it was their 21 year old neighbor, Maria Fashing at the door.

1194
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,320
She was coming to check on the grandmother as well.

1195
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,360
Joseph and Maria engaged in loud conversation before he forced her into the home, similarly

1196
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:32,360
to the others.

1197
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,320
Now, just to keep everyone up to date, there's now eight people in the home, not including

1198
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:37,320
Joseph and Michael.

1199
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:38,320
Okay.

1200
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:40,200
So there's eight victims.

1201
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,120
Maria was forced into the living room and ordered to lay down.

1202
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,640
It is thought that Joseph might have thought that Frank was a bigger threat than the women

1203
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:48,080
since he was male.

1204
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:52,640
And he would actually gag Frank because of this with a handkerchief before binding tape

1205
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:56,000
around his face and attempting to hog tie him as well.

1206
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,000
Oh my god.

1207
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,000
Like he was really concerned with like Frank being a problem.

1208
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,200
Yeah.

1209
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,720
Frank was barely able to move, but Joseph would force him down to the basement where

1210
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:08,320
he took his pants and underwear off and put a knife to his penis.

1211
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,000
Joseph was noted as saying to Frank, quote, if you move, this goes.

1212
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,000
Okay.

1213
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,400
Like, you're fucking cool.

1214
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:15,400
You're cool.

1215
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:16,400
Shut up.

1216
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:21,520
Shortly after this, Joseph turned his attention to Maria, who he led down to the basement

1217
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,440
as well.

1218
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:28,480
Joseph had actually asked Maria at one point to bite Frank's penis off.

1219
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:29,480
She refused.

1220
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:30,480
She's like, no.

1221
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:31,480
Yeah.

1222
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:33,240
And brother in law or whatever.

1223
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:38,600
Their altercation escalated to the point of Joseph brutally raping Maria, Frank being

1224
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:44,040
able to hear the exchange the whole time because she was down at the basement with him.

1225
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:49,320
In response to Maria refusing to comply, Joseph would begin stabbing her multiple times and

1226
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:52,760
would ultimately slit her throat from ear to ear, killing her.

1227
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:53,920
Oh my God.

1228
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:59,720
Again, this poor Frank is just blindfolded and gagged while this is happening.

1229
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:03,440
Like I said, I just wouldn't be, I don't think I could let it get that far.

1230
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:10,120
I would rather probably try to grab the gun or grab him or tackle him or something.

1231
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,840
I mean, it's a horrid thought because you don't know what you would do in that situation.

1232
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,920
I don't know what I would do in that situation because I'd never been in it.

1233
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,040
But it kind of makes me think like, how many of us can he actually shoot before we can

1234
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:22,040
subdue him?

1235
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:23,040
And that's what I'm saying.

1236
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:27,160
I mean, it's much easier said than done though.

1237
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:28,160
Put that thought out there.

1238
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:33,160
But of course, in today's society in America, I had that thought at being at the movie theater

1239
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:37,680
with my kiddo and I was like, okay, if somebody comes around the corner with this, I'm gonna

1240
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:38,680
do this.

1241
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,360
Or I'm like, okay, well the exits that way, I would tell them to go that way.

1242
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:42,520
And I would, you know, because I'm thinking like-

1243
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,040
I always know my exits everywhere.

1244
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:50,560
And I just don't think that I- okay, worst case scenario, he shoots and he kills me,

1245
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:57,400
but at least hopefully it gains some kind of rallying thing, you know, where everybody

1246
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,920
else is like, okay, get him now while he's distracted or whatever, you know?

1247
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:01,920
Yeah, exactly.

1248
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:05,440
It's hard because again, like, how the fuck do you know what to do in this situation until

1249
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,280
you're in it, you know?

1250
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:12,160
So during this whole attack, Michael was upstairs watching the other victims.

1251
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,480
And Weena, the one that he was having a hard time doing her hands, was actually of course

1252
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:21,920
able to hear the assault as well as everyone else and clearly recognized that this might

1253
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,280
have been a murder.

1254
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,720
So she began fearing the absolute worst and in response to this, she jumped up and made

1255
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:28,840
her run for the front door.

1256
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:29,840
Yeah, it's just-

1257
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:30,840
Fuck this, I'm out.

1258
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,080
Pussy ass little 13 year old.

1259
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:33,080
Right.

1260
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:34,080
Just punch him and get out of there.

1261
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,960
But I get her thinking as well, it's like, he just killed her.

1262
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,360
Who's to say he's not gonna try to kill all of us like one by one?

1263
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:40,360
Of course.

1264
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:41,360
Yeah.

1265
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,720
And then the father quote, somebody's loose.

1266
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:44,720
Like, no.

1267
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,600
To which Joseph and Michael both fled the scene.

1268
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:48,600
They just left.

1269
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:49,600
Yeah.

1270
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:50,600
Wow.

1271
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,200
So she pretty much saved everybody else's life, honestly.

1272
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,960
And Weena was able to alert the neighbors who phoned police and they would arrive to

1273
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,360
find the seven hostages and Maria's body, unfortunately, in the basement.

1274
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,520
That's really sad.

1275
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,080
The two would board a public bus in order to escape and they would dump their weapons

1276
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:12,320
at a bloody shirt along the way to get rid of evidence.

1277
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:16,520
Police were also able to determine that Joseph Callinger and his son had been in the area

1278
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,040
around the time of the crimes.

1279
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,040
I'm not exactly sure how or why, but-

1280
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:21,040
It's those Callinger kids.

1281
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,040
Yeah.

1282
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:23,040
Those Callinger boys.

1283
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:28,360
They also found out soon about Joseph's history of domestic violence, his other son's unsolved

1284
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,360
death, and a series of arsons targeted against buildings that he owned.

1285
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:33,360
Like-

1286
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:34,360
What an idiot.

1287
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,320
He's like breadcrumbs leading right up to you.

1288
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:43,000
On January 17th, 1975, just nine days after the final crime, police went to the Callinger

1289
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:49,480
home and placed 39-year-old Joseph, 13-year-old Michael, and 11-year-old James under arrest.

1290
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:50,760
Why James?

1291
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,840
They had arrested both young boys at first because they looked very similar and police

1292
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,000
weren't entirely sure which one was there.

1293
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,000
I see.

1294
00:58:58,000 --> 00:58:59,000
So they were like, fuck it, just take them both.

1295
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:00,000
Poor James.

1296
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:01,000
Poor James.

1297
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,000
They would eventually rule out James and release him and focus their attention on Michael

1298
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,800
and Joseph.

1299
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:11,720
Two months after the arrest, the courts decided that Michael was delinquent but salvageable

1300
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,600
and could not be held responsible for the murder charges due to his age.

1301
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:20,200
So they dismissed the murder charges in exchange for him pleading guilty to two counts of robbery.

1302
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:21,200
Okay.

1303
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,360
They were pretty much saying like he was under the hypnosis of his dad or under the, you know-

1304
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:26,360
Yeah.

1305
00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:27,600
Well, he was also kind of just the look out to-

1306
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:28,600
Yeah.

1307
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:29,600
...he wasn't holding the knife.

1308
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:34,960
He was sentenced to a reformatory and placed on probation until the day of his 25th birthday.

1309
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,840
Upon his release of the reformatory at the age of 21, Michael changed his name and moved

1310
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:40,840
out of the state.

1311
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:41,840
Damn.

1312
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:42,840
Bye.

1313
00:59:42,840 --> 00:59:43,840
He's like, fuck my dad.

1314
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,680
Yeah, maybe he did get some actual help and treatment then.

1315
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:47,680
Hopefully so.

1316
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,880
That might be like not fully adieu, but you know-

1317
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:50,880
Yeah.

1318
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:51,880
Yeah.

1319
00:59:51,880 --> 00:59:52,880
Well, it might have been.

1320
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,120
Joseph would be held until his court date, obviously.

1321
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:01,160
He was tried in Pennsylvania first in June of 1975, which actually resulted in a hung

1322
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,680
jury and was just dismissed, like thrown out.

1323
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:09,200
In August of 1975, joke- I say 75 like it's a new year.

1324
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:14,600
In August, so a couple months later, Joseph was given a psychiatric evaluation again in

1325
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:19,120
which the doctor concluded that he knew right from wrong and was competent to stand trial.

1326
01:00:19,120 --> 01:00:20,120
Good.

1327
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,280
Although this was the finding of the doctor, when it came time to try Joseph, he tried to

1328
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,640
claim that he had another personality by the name of Charlie, who was actually responsible

1329
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:29,640
for the crimes.

1330
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,880
Remember this voice that he would talk to?

1331
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,640
He also claimed that he talked to the Lord every day and he was told to kill the people

1332
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:37,720
he did by God.

1333
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,680
He would plead insanity at his second trial in September of 1975, acting completely out

1334
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,120
of the ordinary during the hearing.

1335
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,040
Like, it seemed very apparent to everyone else in the courtroom that he was deliberately

1336
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,840
trying to make himself seem insane.

1337
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:57,560
And as he sat in the trial, his head, quote, bobbed and jerked, then swung in clockwise

1338
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,720
arcs continually in motion.

1339
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:01,680
Like, that doesn't happen.

1340
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:02,680
That's not a thing.

1341
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:10,160
I mean, he already sounded like he was insane, legally, with the God telling him to kill

1342
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:11,160
children.

1343
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:12,160
Yeah.

1344
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:13,160
I mean, that's- you don't need to act it.

1345
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:16,240
You don't need to like, seize up or anything.

1346
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:19,960
He was allowed to speak during his trial in which he stated that he could not remember

1347
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:25,480
specific periods of time, but he knew that God communicated with him at some point.

1348
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:30,480
He also said that he was the son of God and had existed as a butterfly.

1349
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,640
He's just like pulling anything out of his ass to make himself sound insane.

1350
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,200
Joseph would be tried on nine felony counts.

1351
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:42,840
The jury took less than an hour to deliberate and they would find Joseph guilty on all counts,

1352
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,840
sentencing him to 30 to 80 years in prison.

1353
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:52,840
The judge was noted as saying that Joseph was a, quote, evil man, utterly vile and depraved.

1354
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,040
Which is funny because he said depraved in the last episode.

1355
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:00,760
Joseph would then be convicted in October of 1976, this time in New Jersey, for the

1356
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,120
murder of Maria Fasching.

1357
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,000
He would receive a mandatory life sentence following this conviction that would be served

1358
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,600
consecutively with his sentence from Pennsylvania.

1359
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,040
He was also later convicted of the murder of Joseph Jr.

1360
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,280
And the murder of a neighborhood boy as well.

1361
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,120
So completely random we didn't even know about.

1362
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:25,160
While in prison, Joseph was known to have frequent violent outbursts, including multiple

1363
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:27,280
suicide attempts.

1364
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:31,960
In March of 1977, Joseph attempted to kill himself by setting himself on fire, but he

1365
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:32,960
was unsuccessful.

1366
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,840
Oh my God.

1367
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:40,920
A month later, he would assault a fellow inmate and then set his block on fire as well.

1368
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,560
Like just able to access these things.

1369
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,800
Well, he's clearly not getting the, still not getting the treatment and the hell he

1370
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:47,800
deserves.

1371
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:48,800
Yep.

1372
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:49,800
Not deserves, but needs.

1373
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:50,800
Needs.

1374
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,920
Because of his violent and suicidal behavior, Joseph would be moved to a mental hospital

1375
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:56,800
in Trenton, New Jersey around this time.

1376
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:01,840
A year later, in March of 1978, Joseph would slash a fellow inmate's throat in an unprovoked

1377
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:03,320
attack.

1378
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,600
The victim would survive this attack.

1379
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:06,600
That's terrifying.

1380
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:07,600
I know.

1381
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,800
Joseph would be moved yet again to another mental hospital in Philadelphia on May 18,

1382
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:13,640
1979.

1383
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:18,400
In an interview 10 years later, Joseph still expressed his desire to slaughter every person

1384
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:19,400
on earth.

1385
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,320
All right, fucking, what's this?

1386
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:22,320
Vermeeras.

1387
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,640
No, um, what we just did, what's the guy's name?

1388
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:27,200
We did, uh, Elliot Roger.

1389
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:28,200
Oh.

1390
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:29,560
Oh, every woman.

1391
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,240
And Joseph stated that he wanted to commit suicide after he had accomplished this feat

1392
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:36,320
and quote, become a god.

1393
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,760
He's like, I'm going to kill everyone on earth, kill myself, and I'm just going to become

1394
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:39,760
a god.

1395
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:40,760
I'm just going to be a god.

1396
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:41,760
I'm just going to do it.

1397
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:42,760
I'm just, I'm going to do it.

1398
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:43,760
I'm just going to do it.

1399
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:44,760
I'm just going to, yeah.

1400
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:45,760
I'm in my murder era.

1401
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:46,760
Sorry, that was bad.

1402
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:48,920
I'm in my godlike era.

1403
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,200
At this time, he had been tried and convicted again of both his son's murder and the murder

1404
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:53,760
of Jose Calas.

1405
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,640
So I was, sorry, wrong when I said, uh, some neighborhood boy earlier, it was Jose Calas

1406
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:58,640
that I was talking about.

1407
01:03:58,640 --> 01:03:59,640
I wrote it down weird.

1408
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,320
It's like, whoa, another one?

1409
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:02,320
Yeah.

1410
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:06,160
So because of these convictions, it would actually put two more life sentences on top

1411
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:07,320
of what he was already serving.

1412
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:08,320
Okay.

1413
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:10,360
There's like literally no way.

1414
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:14,440
Joseph would attempt suicide multiple times throughout these years and would also participate

1415
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:18,400
in quote religious hunger strikes as well.

1416
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,920
Due to this behavior, he was transferred to Pennsylvania's Fairview State Hospital for

1417
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,880
the criminally insane in 1990.

1418
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,480
He would eventually be sent back to the state correctional Institute at Crescent in the mid

1419
01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:30,560
nineties.

1420
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:36,160
On March 26th, 1996, Joseph Callinger suffered a seizure, resulting in him choking on his

1421
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:39,960
own vomit and ultimately dying from it.

1422
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:43,040
Like he like aspirated to death.

1423
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:44,720
Yeah.

1424
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:48,960
He had actually spent the last 11 years of his life on suicide watch.

1425
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:49,960
11 years?

1426
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:50,960
Yeah.

1427
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:52,120
Isn't that wild?

1428
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,480
Still too good for him.

1429
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:58,640
So I have a little bit more and this is actually really interesting to me.

1430
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:04,960
In 1976, an author by the name of Flora Reda Schreiber interviewed Joseph while in prison.

1431
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,200
The interview was the basis for a book on the case entitled quote, the shoemaker, the

1432
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:13,960
anatomy of a psychotic, of a psychotic, in 1983.

1433
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:15,680
Yeah, it's 83.

1434
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:16,680
She's forgiven.

1435
01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:20,440
No, this was interview was based on a book on the case.

1436
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:21,440
She didn't write that.

1437
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:22,680
That was written by the other people.

1438
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:28,000
So the book would actually later be a part of a son of Sam lawsuit.

1439
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:29,200
What?

1440
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:34,280
This law was first published in 1977 and it stated that criminals were not allowed to

1441
01:05:34,280 --> 01:05:38,320
have any financial gain based off of writing on their crimes.

1442
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:39,320
Okay.

1443
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:40,680
So apparently that happened with son of Sam.

1444
01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:45,160
He got like some sort of monetary gain from people writing about what he did and they

1445
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:48,720
were like, we're not going to let him make any money off of his own story because he's

1446
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,160
a criminal.

1447
01:05:50,160 --> 01:05:54,320
The public lawyers and authors alike were very upset by this as they said that it went

1448
01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:55,320
against the First Amendment.

1449
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,720
I don't know how, but it did.

1450
01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:03,400
Well because they're like, they're allowed to write about the crimes, but the criminal

1451
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,360
is not allowed to make money off of the story.

1452
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:10,560
The law would subsequently be struck down in 2002, although there was a revision that

1453
01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:12,520
was made in 2001.

1454
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:16,280
This states that victims of crimes must be notified whenever a person convicted of a

1455
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,480
crime received $10,000 or more from any source.

1456
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:24,680
The law then attaches a statute of limitations giving victims an extended period of time

1457
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,840
to sue the perpetrator of the crime in civil court for their crimes.

1458
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:28,840
Okay.

1459
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:29,840
I thought that was super interesting.

1460
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:30,840
That is really interesting.

1461
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,440
The law also authorizes the crime victims board to act on the victims behalf in some

1462
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:35,960
circumstances.

1463
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:39,560
So there was a son of same lawsuit brought by one of the family's victims against Joseph

1464
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,680
when the law was still in effect, and a judge awarded the family earnings from not only

1465
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:50,680
Joseph, but Flora Schreiber and the authors of the Shoemaker book as well, Simon and Schuster.

1466
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,960
The lawsuit left Flora in nearly $100,000 in debt due to the expenses of the book, the

1467
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:01,720
research, including numerous phone calls to Joseph while in prison, totaling $1,200

1468
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,760
per month for several years.

1469
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:08,360
Paul Korda, an editor at Simon and Schuster, the people that wrote the book, stated that

1470
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:13,560
for many years he received Christmas cards from Joseph from jail.

1471
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:17,240
Flora stated that she herself grew close with Joseph over the years of interviews and the

1472
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:21,960
two exchanged regular letters and phone calls until Joseph died.

1473
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,040
So I just thought that was super interesting that he kind of fell into that son of same

1474
01:07:26,040 --> 01:07:30,800
lawsuit and then it got abolished before, I mean now obviously.

1475
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,040
But the law was written because Berkowitz had profited?

1476
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:38,600
Yeah, I didn't read like too much into it, but I'm assuming it has something to do with

1477
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:43,400
obviously Berkowitz gaining some sort of money from writings about his crimes because he

1478
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:44,880
named it after him.

1479
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:46,040
Oh, sorry.

1480
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:51,000
Well remember that his lawyers were profiting off of a lot of his stuff and I wonder if

1481
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:52,000
it's not that.

1482
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:53,000
That's probably what it is.

1483
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:58,680
It does seem a little non-David Berkowitz-like to be profiting off of victims because he

1484
01:07:58,680 --> 01:08:05,840
was very quickly that fog and that had faded from his brain, honestly.

1485
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,600
For sure and honestly, for brevity's sake, I didn't put all of that in there.

1486
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:13,040
You can definitely look it up, son of same lawsuit if you want more details on that,

1487
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,160
but that's all I put in there.

1488
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:16,880
So fast forwarding a little bit more.

1489
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:21,960
In February of 2021, the home where Joseph and Michael would commit their last crime

1490
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,600
was sold.

1491
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:28,360
The home had had at least seven different owners since the crime had taken place.

1492
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:34,000
Since New Jersey State does not consider any death in the home to be a material fact,

1493
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:37,680
it was not required to be disclosed that the murder happened there.

1494
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:43,560
The four bedroom three and a half bath sold for $587,500 after being on the market for

1495
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:45,560
nearly a year.

1496
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,360
So that's a little tidbit of info that's interesting.

1497
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:53,080
And just to get a little bit more in depth with Joseph's mental health, some psychiatrists

1498
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:57,360
truly believe that Joseph was not faking his mental illness while in court, contrary to

1499
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,080
what a lot of people tend to believe.

1500
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:05,520
Dr. Nathan Roth stated in 1984, quote, even when doing the most outrageous acts, he believed

1501
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,360
he was doing it because of divine guidance.

1502
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:09,360
He's not faking.

1503
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:10,360
Like Chapman.

1504
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:11,360
Yeah.

1505
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:15,680
He had testified as well that Joseph had, quote, a steadily evolving mental disorder

1506
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,720
from an early age, which we all know to be true.

1507
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,080
He also commented that Joseph took medication to combat psychosis and also suffered from

1508
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:27,280
schizophrenia, which I don't know if that's true, but he testified or he commented,

1509
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:28,480
excuse me.

1510
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:32,960
In other testimony, Ralph David, a clinical psychologist who examined Joseph at a state

1511
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:38,960
hospital for a total of over 1000 hours, agreed with Roth's diagnosis of Joseph's mental

1512
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:39,960
state.

1513
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,800
He stated, quote, I saw him almost daily, adding that Joseph has a quote, schizophrenia

1514
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:49,920
of long duration, probably beginning in early childhood or adolescence, end quote.

1515
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:53,960
David also testified that around the time of Joseph Jr.'s death, Joseph or Joseph the

1516
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:55,440
fourth, excuse me.

1517
01:09:55,440 --> 01:10:00,680
Ralph said that he had begun to hear the voice of God telling him to, quote, get rid of Joey.

1518
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,160
He added, quote, if he couldn't distinguish reality, he couldn't distinguish between

1519
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:05,160
right or wrong.

1520
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:06,920
Which is kind of a good point.

1521
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:10,040
I wanted to add this at the end, of course, so that we could discuss his mental health.

1522
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:14,560
But clearly these testimonies didn't sway the jury or the judge because we know what

1523
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,680
he got convicted of, but that actually happened in court.

1524
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,680
I just wanted to say it at the end.

1525
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:19,680
It's peppered in.

1526
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,160
But yeah, that is the story.

1527
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:22,160
That is a doozy.

1528
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:23,880
It is a fucking doozy.

1529
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:28,120
I don't think I've heard a roller coaster like that since Chase, maybe.

1530
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:29,520
Well, not Trenton Chase.

1531
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:31,240
Who am I thinking of?

1532
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:32,240
UK guy.

1533
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:33,240
Trenton Chase.

1534
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:34,240
Richard Chase.

1535
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:35,240
Richard Chase.

1536
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:36,240
Richard Chase.

1537
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:37,240
Yeah.

1538
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:38,880
Right, yeah, Chase, yeah.

1539
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:44,640
His was very up and down, thinking that the dog was a dead dog or all that.

1540
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:45,640
Yeah.

1541
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:46,640
And hallucinations like that.

1542
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:56,280
He also crept into that poor man's home and murdered him and just thinking of the type

1543
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,840
of mental struggle that must be.

1544
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:00,840
Yeah.

1545
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,360
Not being able to differentiate reality and hallucination.

1546
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:06,560
Yeah, it's really shitty.

1547
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,960
That sounds like such a crass way of putting it.

1548
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,640
Oh, it's really shitty because it's way more in depth than that.

1549
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:18,920
But there was literally no helping him after a certain point.

1550
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:24,000
That sounds kind of bad, but he never felt love ever.

1551
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:30,040
He only ever felt abandonment and physical pain and sexual abuse and emotional abuse

1552
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,160
and neglect.

1553
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,440
That fucking, no fucking wonder he did what he did.

1554
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:38,320
And honest to God, it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

1555
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:39,320
It really could have.

1556
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:43,760
And not trying to diminish what he did because he definitely had at least three murder victims,

1557
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,080
a lot of assault victims.

1558
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:46,080
Yeah.

1559
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:47,080
Edwina's a hero.

1560
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:48,080
Yeah, absolutely.

1561
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:49,080
She's the hero of the story.

1562
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:50,080
God, it's just shitty.

1563
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,560
I hope that Michael's doing okay, honestly.

1564
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:54,560
And James and James.

1565
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:55,560
And his other kids.

1566
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:56,560
Yeah, and his other kids.

1567
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:57,560
Gosh, I can't even imagine.

1568
01:11:57,560 --> 01:11:58,560
God, it's awful.

1569
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,680
It's just a horrible story.

1570
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:06,520
And again, I listened to an episode on him from another podcast and all I really remembered

1571
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:11,840
about the story was that him and his son committed crimes together and his son's a piece of shit

1572
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,760
and blah, blah, blah, not to talk negatively about another podcast.

1573
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:19,840
But that's why I wanted to do the deep dive because I'm like, there has to be a reason

1574
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:20,840
for all of this.

1575
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:24,600
It's not just, oh, him and his son are murderers or they murdered someone together.

1576
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,240
They're, you know, they're pieces of shit.

1577
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:30,480
No, there is, as we saw, a lot more that went into that story.

1578
01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:34,400
And I do hope that, you know, because we talk about the fact that mental disorders can be

1579
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:39,320
hereditary and stuff, and I just, I hope that they were successful in taking care of themselves

1580
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:45,880
mentally and getting the help that they probably need, you know, or needed because Joseph was

1581
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:48,720
such a, I mean, he was an abusive person.

1582
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:49,720
Yeah.

1583
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,200
So, yeah, I really would like to think that the abuse cycle stopped with the kiddos.

1584
01:12:53,200 --> 01:12:54,920
Of course, I hope that it did.

1585
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:55,920
Yeah.

1586
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:56,920
But yeah, that's my case.

1587
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:57,920
What a case.

1588
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,720
I know we have a lot coming up.

1589
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:07,280
I have my mental break on Monday, and then I think what you, obviously you have a case.

1590
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:08,280
Yeah.

1591
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:11,560
And then I think next week already, we're going to be doing the DAK Live, right?

1592
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:12,560
Yeah.

1593
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:13,560
Are we recording it?

1594
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:14,560
Yeah.

1595
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:15,560
So you guys will be recording it.

1596
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:18,000
Well, I think we're going to release, I think we decided on Saturday, right?

1597
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:19,000
The, maybe the 17th?

1598
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:20,000
The 17th?

1599
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,000
Yeah, so.

1600
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:22,000
I think we said maybe the 17th.

1601
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:27,000
It looks like we're going to have three cases for the next two weeks or something almost.

1602
01:13:27,000 --> 01:13:31,480
Yeah, like three cases a week, next week, and then a two case week, and then another

1603
01:13:31,480 --> 01:13:32,480
three case week.

1604
01:13:32,480 --> 01:13:34,760
So there's going to be a lot of content coming y'all's way.

1605
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:35,920
A lot of content.

1606
01:13:35,920 --> 01:13:36,920
Yeah.

1607
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,000
But thank you guys for listening and sticking with us.

1608
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:43,920
If you'd like to donate to the Patreon, please feel free to join us at patreon.com.com.

1609
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:45,440
You can see a killer.

1610
01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:48,880
Again, you do get access to, if you skip the stuff at the beginning, you get access to

1611
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,120
an additional episode ad free, all the gore, all the content.

1612
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:53,120
Yeah.

1613
01:13:53,120 --> 01:13:54,520
And yeah, pick up some merch.

1614
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:56,160
Yes, absolutely get some merch.

1615
01:13:56,160 --> 01:13:59,120
I'm getting paid tomorrow and I'm like dead asking to buy like a couple shirts.

1616
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:00,120
I know I want stickers.

1617
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:01,960
Oh, I want that pillow.

1618
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:02,960
That pillow.

1619
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:03,960
That pillow.

1620
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,040
Okay, well we will see you guys later.

1621
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:07,040
Love you.

1622
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:08,040
Bye.

1623
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:09,040
Love you.

1624
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:10,040
Bye.

1625
01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:15,480
Your mental health is super important to us.

1626
01:14:15,480 --> 01:14:19,640
So we are thrilled to announce that we are sponsored by BetterHelp to support you.

1627
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:24,160
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