Hello! Hello! Welcome to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer, the mental breakdown.
I'm Koelle and I'm Kenna. Welcome back!
I was going to say, didn't you just bang your knee a little bit ago too?
I have a giant bruise on the left side of my left knee. I hit it on something the other night because I had it for a few days and I hit it on the washing machine door earlier and it hurt so bad. It was right in that same spot.
Oh I hate that.
I know and my hip has been fucking killing me lately.
Sitting here is not going to help.
With the new job and stuff, I'm up and down all day and I'm lifting a lot so it's understandable that it's been sore but I'm definitely going to get back into physical therapy I think.
I was talking to my mom about it.
For those of you that don't know, Kenneth actually had surgery on her hip before.
Yeah, fuck it.
She had what did they call it? Dancers' hip?
No.
Didn't they call it Dancers' hip?
Not at all.
No.
Was that from a TV show?
Probably.
Thinking of a TV show then.
I'm going to tear in my left labrum which is the almost tendon that connects your joint to your pelvis, the socket.
I'm going to tear in that.
So they went in and kind of clipped it almost like they put bobby pins if you will on it to keep it together.
But my doctor did say that it's only 60% effective, like the surgery.
Honestly, I was in so much pain when I first got it done a couple of years ago.
Like 60% sounds great.
Exactly.
Like if it works, it works.
If it doesn't, it can't be any fucking worse than it is now.
But a couple of years later, it's getting back to the point where it probably was before.
So I don't know if I'll have to get surgery again or hopefully PT will help.
Because when I was on crutches, I went to PT for like six to eight weeks and it really, really started to help.
But then as soon as I got off crutches, I was like, fuck that.
I don't need to go to PT anymore.
Rongo.
Nobody's going to want to date a cripple.
But yeah, so that's a little snippet about my life today.
What about you?
What did you do today?
I just hung out with my son.
He's experiencing some hearing issues.
Anyways, I'm going to take him to the doctor tomorrow because he's just like, huh, what?
What?
Like all day.
Sounds like a good guy.
And I'm just, well, I really, at this point, me and his other parents, we really think that there's something sinus-y going on.
E and T-wise.
So we're going to go get a flush tomorrow.
Ooh, he's going to love that.
He's going to get a cleanse.
And yeah, we were just running around.
We did a few errands and he was like, can we go to Thai chili?
And I was like, it's so funny because it's not that he likes Thai food.
It's that he likes the popcorn chicken.
Yeah.
Just like the little bits of popcorn.
I was like, he wants the popcorn chicken.
I'm like, baby, I can buy you a frozen bag of that.
Yeah, for real.
Tyson hit him up.
Actually, I don't buy Tyson.
Fuck them.
And then he lost his little tooth the other day.
I saw.
His front tooth.
Oh my gosh, she looks so cute.
So it's just that.
And then of course, you know, typing up some stuff, doing some research.
Opening my mail.
Opening your mail.
Bro, who gets mail from the attorney general's office if it's not like me.
Okay.
If you must know people listening, TurboTax apparently charged a bunch of people, their
customers, more than they should have.
Or they charged people for a service that should have been provided for free.
So I just got a refund for that.
So Dana said that she got one too.
So anybody that used TurboTax last year, they might send you one too.
And it was dated from last year.
So I'm anticipating to get one from this year as well because they charged me again this
year.
What?
This is just what I read on the letter, but just for future ref.
Yeah.
One of my biggest pet piece.
People open my mail.
Oh yeah.
Same.
I'm the same way.
I can't.
Yeah.
I was going to say, let me just open a piece of your mail.
How do you feel about that?
I loved what...
Somebody write me a letter so it kind of will open up the mail.
Right.
Because I don't receive any mail.
What I loved was that you texted me and said, can I open this?
And didn't wait for me to respond.
So when I said no, you were like, oops.
I'm like, why the fuck did you ask then if you already did?
Next time, wait for a response.
Well the thing was, I couldn't wait because I was in a dead zone and it wasn't sending
the message.
And I was like, fuck this, I'm not going to wait.
Oh my god.
And by the time I got back to my phone, I was like, oh it's sent.
And you were like, please don't do that.
And I was like, oops.
Sorry, thanks for that.
We got a new Patreon.
We did.
Alexis is a Patreon now or Patron.
Patron.
Thanks, Alexis.
And I now listen to a UK podcast by the way and they say Patrons.
The people on...
They do?
They do, they say Patrons.
I'm pretty sure Patrons is something that is definitely...
I don't know but they are from the UK and they say Patrons.
Not everybody from the UK also says urinal but some people say urinal instead of urinal
which is weird to me.
Urinal.
I feel like there's so much...
It sounds so much more...
So much more effort to say urinal than urinal.
I don't know.
I just like that they say pedophile.
The pedophile.
Yeah.
But anyway, Alexis, thank you so much.
I shot you a text so you know that I love you and we both love you.
But thank you because...
Thank you.
Patron supporters genuinely make a big difference in what we do.
Huge.
They really allow us to be able to maintain the website like we do, make the merch line
happen, continue to have an RSS account, things like that.
Of course.
So thank you guys and thank you to all of our existing Patrons as well.
And to future ones.
Hit me up.
In the meantime you can check out diagnosingakiller.com.
There you can find links to merch and resources.
Catch us on social media anywhere at diagnosingakiller other than Twitter which is at killerdiagnosis.
Email us, rate us, buy merch.
Buy merch.
Merch really helps us out y'all.
Like seriously if y'all don't want to do the monthly Patreon or any of that other stuff,
buy a t-shirt or a sticker or something.
That is also a great way to show us some love and support.
And we do get, of course, a little bit of...
A little bit off the top.
Yeah, for sure.
Again, it all goes towards things just to put back into the podcast.
Of course.
We're not like going out to the bar with that shit.
No.
Nope.
And what's funny is that it does take like a few days to process all that...
To process all that stuff.
So yeah, it definitely helps out.
It's going straight back into this because we're passionate about it and we love it
and we love you guys.
So.
Absolutely.
Are you ready?
I think so.
You sure?
I'm actually in quite a bit of pain but you'll have to go.
Okay.
So, here we are going to be talking about Barbara and Richie Dixine.
Okay.
So, Barbara and Richie Dixine were a married couple living in Yonkers, New York.
Yonkers.
Barbara and Richie.
Richie was a corrections officer for many years.
They found serial killers fascinating.
So over the course of 20 years,
Barbara and Richie corresponded with over 100 infamous killers,
including Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, Richard Ramirez, and others.
Damn.
The couple would collect about 300,000 letters from all of these people, famous killers.
And you're going to read some?
I am.
Oh, that's amazing.
I know.
That's awesome.
Side note before you get started because I definitely am excited to hear all this without
interrupting.
Casey and I went to the Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum.
I think I said that on the last episode.
Maybe not.
No, I think you did.
Oh, I think we went Saturday.
So yeah, it wouldn't have been.
But anyway, we went to see it and they had a shirt that Charlie Manson wore in prison
and he signed it.
The shirt?
It was a blue fray.
It was like a blue button down, like a long sleeve button down.
And Casey was like, damn, that shirt's kind of dope.
Like a prison uniform?
Yes.
Because that's what they used to be like denim.
Yeah, it was like a denim.
But it was like something that I would wear today, like Casey would wear today.
But yeah, it had a signature on like the pocket area, like the frocket area.
That's so cool.
I know.
I was like, damn.
Shirts like that also remind me of Ed Gein too.
Because you guys were like a farmer's looking shirt, you know?
Yeah.
So Barb and Richie would actually portray themselves as like different types of characters
in order to manipulate the killers, right?
So with Richard Ramirez, Barb pretended to be a stripper and even sent him photos of
like her like portraying a stripper, like photos of a different woman entirely.
It's kind of fucked up.
Well, it kind of is like-
It's like a random lady.
It's a Richard Ramirez.
1980s catfishing.
It's kind of like get out and find her.
It's catfishing.
Yeah.
Essentially.
Could be fish, because I was that lady.
Yeah.
It's not creepy.
Oh my gosh.
But he was eating that up though.
Oh, he did.
Yeah.
He's sexed drugs and rocking rural all night.
They would.
Or write his answer.
They would, yeah.
Oh, we're going to get into something Richard Ramirez.
But yeah, they would essentially look at how or who they killed, what their like obsessions
were or affinities were, and they would portray themselves as those people.
Oh my God.
Like I said, it's like serial killer catfishing.
It's so strange.
It's like a child.
And I bet the serial killer is like, especially like Bundy and the ones that are like really,
really bright and probably like, hmm, this might be a trap.
So Richie would actually portray himself to be gay to Gacy and to Dahmer as well.
Yeah.
Did he also portray himself to be like a child?
Gacy to Dahmer.
Oh, well, yeah.
That also comes up later.
Ew, that's pretty gross.
So Richie's closest pen pal was actually David Berkowitz.
They actually became very dear friends first writing to Berkowitz in 1992.
Richie said that he and Barbara also said that Richie had a very true friendship with David,
even visiting him multiple times over the years.
Which became homies.
They were just like BFFs.
I don't know if I could do that.
You don't think you could do that?
I don't think so.
I feel like I would be like always looking over my shoulder.
Yeah.
Even if they're in prison, like God forbid they escape or they get out somehow.
How do I know I'm really friends with them?
Right.
Or if they're just going to use you or something.
Yeah, exactly.
Richie was also in direct correspondence regularly with Susan Smith, the one that killed her
two sons, the one that drove the van into the river.
So everybody that we've ever done in the podcast ever?
It's so weird.
And so apparently Richie and Susan talked so frequently.
Susan fell in love with Richard and actually thought that when she got out they were going
to get married.
That's how intimate their talks were.
And his wife was just cool with this?
Yeah, because she was also talking to someone else.
I forgot who it was.
But she apparently had a...
Oh, it started with a B. I don't remember.
But either way, he was just as obsessed with her.
And like, yeah.
Isn't that strange?
Well, that is strange.
And it kind of sounded like in the beginning it was like maybe a couple that maybe were
similar to Michelle McNamara and... right, Michelle McNamara and...
Paten Oswald?
Not necessarily Paten, but Michelle, very interested in getting to know the people because of the
psychology, but now it kind of seems like they both might have what we talked about on
Lady, that weird obsession with bad people, like pillars or whatever.
I don't know.
Just like, because it kind of seems like they're...
Like, yeah, they might be portraying this character to get these people to open up to
them more, but it also kind of seems like they might be enjoying it.
Like, if they're having that intimate of conversations.
The thing is, is like, it is kind of a bit of insight into like who these people were
or are.
And I don't know.
You get kind of caught up in it, maybe, but for the most part, I think it really is just
something that nobody else has ever done before.
That's true.
You know, and so more letters just keep the letters coming, you know?
I mean, it's just... who gets to say that they do that, you know?
Yeah, and that's super interesting to me.
Like, in this moment to hear about it, again, I probably could not do that.
Yeah, I probably could.
I wouldn't be interested in... I would be like freaking out if a serial killer like
knew my address.
Yeah.
Well, they might have had a PO box, I don't know.
Still.
Unfortunately, Richie would pass away in 2018.
Oh no.
So now these conversations are actually documented on a podcast called Killers Vault.
It's actually hosted by Elizabeth Rahm of Law and Order and narrated by Eric Roberts.
They are on every single platform.
It's only been a seven-part series.
It came out in 2021, but they do read these letters and go over...
Yeah.
That's really cool.
It's really interesting.
You want like an Uber-a-deep dive into what we're talking about now.
Okay, cool.
Absolutely.
It's called Killers Vault.
Okay, cool.
I'm really interested in listening to it.
Barbara told the New York Post, quote, if you look at most of these serial killers'
childhoods, they never really had any love.
I think that they thought that with us, here's someone's willing to show me love and I'll
try it with them, end quote.
I mean, it's very true.
A lot of them have very shitty childhoods.
So Richard Ramirez, aka the Night Stalker, who we have done a case on, he actually killed
13 and raped several others.
In one letter, Ramirez asked Barbara to send him pictures of her feet and once wrote about
Hillary Clinton, quote, her cows and ankles are definitely healthy, end quote.
Okay.
There's just something about Hillary.
Like he's got a big thing for Hillary Clinton.
Rose.
Or did, I guess.
Speaking of Richard Ramirez, complete side note.
I don't know if you saw something went down at the Cecil Hotel yesterday.
There was like either someone threatening to jump or something, but there was like someone...
It was on TikTok.
Someone was recording the hotel and it was surrounded, they had stop traffic.
It was surrounded by cops and ambulances and fire trucks were coming too.
I never followed up and looked at like exactly what happened and honestly, it might have
been a video from a while ago.
But I did see it the other day.
Yeah.
We're going to have to look that up.
So again, Richard Ramirez corresponding with...
What were their names?
Barbara and Richie, my bad.
His name's Richard and the other guy's name's Richard.
I'm like, what's his name?
It's Richie.
Yeah.
So they actually sent Richard Ramirez a questionnaire to like fill out.
It's not the same one that I showed you recently, right?
And with the one...
No.
Oh, okay.
It's a different one.
I'm sure there's plenty.
Just to make sure.
How many times, right?
He's been asked specific questions.
So the perfect man or woman?
Superman or Wonder Woman?
Wonder Woman.
Yeah.
Superman or Wonder Woman.
I don't know why.
Because they're all powerful maybe?
Yeah, because I guess they're super ripped, I don't know.
Favorite childhood hero?
Jack the Ripper or Frankenstein?
Yeah, the one that I had said Jack the Ripper, but it didn't say Frankenstein.
So it's obviously a different one.
But yeah, childhood hero Jack the Ripper.
And it's not Frankenstein the Doctor?
Yeah.
Because it's Frankenstein's Monster.
Yeah, the Monster is not named Rickens.
His name is just Monster.
Let's make that very clear for everyone.
Favorite movie, Unforgiven?
I don't know that movie.
I'm probably going to sound so daft.
Well, I don't know that movie either, but I guarantee you he's like,
I'm unforgiving.
So I relate to it.
There's something.
He's trying to be all like...
It's about puppies.
Yeah.
Yeah, like he's trying to be all deep and it's not even that important.
It is a Clint Eastwood movie that came out in 1992.
Damn, Casey's going to be so mad at me for not knowing that.
He's probably going to be fucking pissed.
Every January 1st, I resolve to be more of an asshole than I already am.
Okay, he's just a fucking troll.
He's like an internet troll, IRL.
IRL.
Nobody knows I'm more depraved than they think I am.
Nobody knows.
Depraved?
Depraved.
Does he...
Depraved.
Does it deprave mean like missing things?
Like you're depraved of food or depraved of love?
No, he's...
Well, no, that's deprived.
Oh, deprived.
Deprived.
Hello.
Depraved meaning like how low and how shallow I am.
Like how...
You know what I'm saying?
How bottom barrel I am.
Yeah, pretty sure everyone knows that, Richie.
Thanks.
Thanks, Rich.
Rich.
Ricky Ram.
What I don't like about people, a lot of things.
Deep.
Is this...
I thought this...
Is this not Elliot Roger?
My biggest fear.
None.
Of course not.
Friends like me because...
Who needs friends?
I was gonna say it's probably like I don't have any or something stupid like that.
Friends are dumb.
You're literally filling this out for a friend.
Seriously.
Who needs friends.
Like it fucking is, right?
I might as well just crumple up this piece of paper then.
Yeah.
Why even respond?
If I were an animal, I'd be a panther.
Personal goals in life, none.
None.
Well, I mean, where's he gonna go?
He's on death row.
Well, you'd think it would be like, kill as many people as possible.
Yeah.
Favorite number?
666.
69.
Political views.
Crazy anarchy question mark?
Whatever that means.
He's like answering his own question.
Shit.
He just needs to make up his own question.
He's like, crazy anarchy?
That guy's a nut job.
Whatever that means.
That guy's crazy.
I don't know what that means.
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Religious thinking?
Evil?
He did not put a question mark there.
He did.
Evil?
That's fucking hilarious.
What are you thinking now?
Evil thoughts, evil doorways.
He's trying to sound crazy.
He's trying to sound scary and he just sounds dumb.
He does.
He sounds dumb enough.
Anyways, that's Richard Ramirez.
That's hilarious.
That might be the same questionnaire that I saw, but I definitely didn't have the same
answer.
It was probably much longer maybe and there's different excerpts of it.
Yeah, for some reason, what I don't like about people, a lot of things.
Sounds familiar to someone?
And the Jack the Ripper was definitely on the line too.
Either way, it's super fucking interesting and if anyone missed that episode that I talked
about it in, here you go.
So John Wayne Gacy, aka the Killer Clone, was convicted of killing 33 young men and boys
between 67 and 78.
That was a rough case.
That was a really rough case.
I'm pretty sure I explained every single guy that went missing or boy that went missing
and it was just drowning.
And then the way that he would stack them on top of each other was really, really nuts.
Gacy sent one of his final letters to Richie before his execution in May 1994.
Gacy was upset that Richie had yet to fulfill some promises.
Quote, end quote.
So this is from the letter.
Quote, you have failed to keep your word with me for the past few months, always saying
that you're going to send me more revealing photos, etc. or just the younger ones.
And yet your word is for shit.
I still have not gotten one.
So why keep saying things to me if you don't intend on keeping your word?
How soon are you coming out?
Hell, I have been hearing it since last August and you're still not here.
Almost as bad as you not sending those photos.
So get with both and stop making excuses.
No more I can't find them or I forgot.
Hell, if you mean what you say, then just do it.
It would make me happy.
End quote.
That's fucking disgusting.
Isn't that fucking gross?
And also, if for any reason he was ever given a trial to appeal, that should have been admissible
because that's fucking telling that he is not changed at all.
No, absolutely not.
And he probably added at the end, P.S. call me the Colonel.
Call me the Colonel.
P.S. you have to call me the Colonel if you show up.
I want a VHS tape of you.
Yeah, he just signs it.
The Colonel.
Yeah, isn't that fucking creepy?
So when you said that earlier about, well, I thought he liked young boys, the fact that
he's asking a grown-ass man for younger photos of himself.
Yeah, that's fucking creepy.
It's fucking gross.
In a previous letter, Gacy complained about another issue he was having, quote, unquote.
Quote.
Yes, I am over the flu.
Thank God.
Hell, while I had it and I was taking pills, I couldn't get hard, so no jacking off for
over 10 days.
Hey, you've been using that hot oil treatment for other areas, so you will be nice and smooth
too.
So fill me in on those hot fantasies of what you're expecting of me.
Hey, I aim to please and teach you as much as I know if you're a good student.
End quote.
I only hope that the flu was awful and his dick almost fell off.
I was actually thinking when you said he was experiencing another issue, I was literally
going to say like impotence, but I didn't say anything.
And then I was like, oh, LOL.
No, I'm sorry.
Like, ED is not something to joke about, but in this case, fuck that guy.
No, fuck that guy.
He deserves ED.
Yeah, he needed a cast.
He deserves no D.
He needs the dough special.
That's so gross.
Jesus.
The deluxe dough treatment, please.
He is so gross.
Like, do you think he thinks he's talking to a younger boy or do you think he knows that
this guy is this age?
I mean, he's asking just for your other pictures.
I don't really know.
I'm sure that you'd probably go over in that podcast episode because they do have a specific
AC case.
I don't know.
I think that maybe he might know that he is that age or maybe he portrayed himself as
somebody younger.
I don't know.
See, that's even creepier if you think that Richie like portrayed himself to be 22 already
or something.
Yeah.
Because he was already in his 40s or 50s.
So well, maybe not, maybe 40s.
But to portray yourself already as like a 22 year old and then he's like, show me younger
photos of you.
Yeah, that's fucking gross.
Fucking gross.
You know what would be really interesting if someone, and I'm sure that it's happening
somewhere in the world, but just to put it out there, if someone were to do this like
today with people that are convicted of certain crimes like rape or murder, things like that,
but maybe have a chance at parole later in life and then be able to use these letters
if and when this person would try to appeal to show like, look, this person is not reformed
or not any better than they were when they got arrested or you know, whatever.
Yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree with that.
I think that if maybe, if not for any other reason, maybe that's why Barbara and Richie
did this.
Yeah.
So that if someone were to be up for parole or a lesser sentence or an appeal or whatever,
that they could take these in and say, you know, in lieu of a victim impact statement,
this person clearly has all of these same tendencies that they had.
Thankfully, a lot of these people are death row inmates because they're just so awful.
They never plan on changing because they don't have to.
They know they're not going to get out.
Exactly.
But that's what I'm saying.
Like it would be kind of a cool thing to be able to show like if this person truly is,
you know, again, reformed.
It's almost like the, to catch a predator like when a person that is clearly over the
age of 18, you know, in our eyes, proposes as a younger girl doing the fucking Lord's
work and then they get these pedophiles off the street.
Of course.
Yeah.
David Berkowitz, aka son of Sam, who terrorized New York from 76 to 77, was the closest to
Richie, like I mentioned earlier.
And you can really hear it in a well-wished letter that Berkowitz sent Richie in January
of 2003.
Okay.
Quote, Hi Richie.
I hope this letter finds you doing well under the circumstances.
I have been praying for you and I believe this year we'll have some nice things in store
for you.
My heart does go out to you Richie at your loss, but I have asked the Lord to show you
mercy and comfort in your heart.
I have your letter dated December 23rd and I want to wish you a happy birthday.
I have no card to mail out, but you know that my birthday wishes were with you.
You asked me for a photo and then you asked me to draw a picture of myself, what I look
like.
For some reason, this put me at Ile's.
I know you were kind of joking, but it spooked me.
I don't think that you understand what I go through and the pain and grief that I have
over my heart and over the past.
And even 25 years later, the media still chases me around.
I am ashamed of the past and I want to move on.
I have a fear that some people write to me for other motives.
If it were not for God's grace, I wouldn't make it.
End quote.
Those are a few quotes that were I took from the letter, because the only other parts he
was talking about was like the jets and stuff he was talking in sports.
So I think that Berkowitz is a lot different than Richard Amiris and John Wayne Gacy and
the fact that he is very seriously mentally ill and I truly believe that it did cause
his crimes.
I think that he's probably been asked to draw himself by numerous therapists and psychiatrists
to see how he thinks of himself in his mind.
And that's probably very scary to him.
Because one of the things that I've seen interview-wise with patients that are on the
Skit to Friend spectrum or do have psychosis of some sort or psychotic disorder, they draw
very real, raw, almost scary images of themselves.
And I think that might be where he was like, that made me feel a little uncomfortable.
I don't know what other people's motives are.
I really hope that was like a good motive on your end and not sinister or whatever.
Right, exactly.
And that kind of hurts my heart.
I know.
I think that's really sad.
It was really interesting to read the letter.
It's typed out very well and he's clearly a well-spoken individual.
I'm sure he's learned quite a lot in just being incarcerated.
And again, that him and Ritchie had a very deep friendship and it was a friendship that
lasted a long time, I want to say like 12 years.
And Berkowitz actually cried when he realized that Ritchie had passed away.
I mean, that's how close they were.
They were really close.
So I can see that maybe this letter would have been after some time of knowing each other,
but maybe not after knowing each other for so long.
I don't really know.
I mean, it's a 2003 and I think they stopped corresponding in like 2005.
So I don't know how close they were versus whatever.
Either way, he was clearly uncomfortable and he voiced that.
And like you said, it's almost like, I hope that's not what's going on.
It's kind of sad that that's kind of what's going on.
Yeah.
Well, and that shows me how much he's progressed in his mental illness, whether or not he's
being medicated correctly behind bars, we don't know.
But clearly the routine is helping him enough to even be able to voice those concerns because
someone that is suffering from schizophrenia disorder like he was usually isn't able to
voice those concerns because they have so much other stuff going on inside their mind.
They don't even recognize sometimes that that's what's happening.
So the fact that he's able to understand that that might be he might be being manipulated
and voice those concerns shows me that he's made a lot of progress.
Yeah.
Had at this point.
And then kind of politely declined, honestly, instead of people like Ramirez saying, let
me give them as much shocking material as possible.
This is good for my image.
And I think that's the difference in serious mental illness and like, well, not serious
mental illness because they're both very seriously mentally ill, but the difference in the types
of diagnoses that they have.
Yeah.
Differentiating between something like schizophrenia spectrum disorder and somebody who has a narcissistic
personality disorder.
Exactly.
It's just different types of disorders.
And it's hard, yeah, because both people can be completely reformed and can make progress
in their diagnoses.
But again, it's how you treat it.
It's how you begin, you know, treatment.
If you're getting treatment, they're both in different prisons.
Who knows?
Right.
Maybe Berkowitz was fortunate enough to get help with a psychiatrist and treatment and
Richard Ramirez wasn't.
Right.
You know, we just never know and we're not going to, which is unfortunate.
That's why it's so important to get help early on.
That's my last point.
And be supportive of the people around you as well.
Like, you know, if you know that somebody that's experiencing that, somebody, you know,
a loved one that's going through that and to be supportive of that, Richard Ramirez never
had the support.
Yeah.
Berkowitz kind of had the support.
He had, you know, some loss and some grief and some trauma at a young age, but he was
taken in by people that cared about him, you know?
Absolutely.
So he did somewhat have that support.
Jeffrey Dahmer, who was convicted of 16 murders, most notably eight some of his victims, even
keeping some body parts, was not bashful when it came to writing Richie Back in March of
94.
I'm waiting on you to do an episode on him.
We'll see.
I'm passing it along to you.
I'm not going to tackle that one.
Quote, Dear Richard, Hello, how are you today?
You got to do it in the accent.
Dear Richard.
Okay, that's all I needed to thank you for.
I got some rotten meat in my freezer.
Hello, how are you today?
I just received your letter this afternoon and thought that I would write back.
It's always nice to get mail from someone new.
I'd like to get to know you better, but with all of the mail that I get, it's difficult
to know who I should respond to.
So in your next letter, would you please send me some really good photos to help your letter
stand out in the crowd?
You said you're a bodybuilder.
That's good.
I'd like to see every unclothed muscular inch of you.
I'm allowed to keep any type of photo except Polaroids, so don't take pictures with Polaroid
cameras, okay?
Well Richard, thanks for writing.
I'll be looking forward to hearing from you soon.
Sincerely, Jeff.
End quote.
You always went by Jeff.
Ugh, the bitch.
Ew.
I like that Richie goes by Richie and he said Dear Richard at the beginning.
Like I hope you're doing well.
No the fuck you don't.
You just want to see that guy's dick.
Dear dick.
Can I see your dick please?
Dick dick dick dick dick.
Sincerely dick.
No, that's really gross though.
Nah, that ain't me.
Yeah, it's pretty gross.
He said it's, he thinks he's manipulating him.
You know what I mean?
No, not all serious if that was pretty aggressive.
No, yeah.
You can hear the narcissism in that letter.
He thinks he's smarter than him.
He thinks he's smarter.
Oh, I just need to like have some pictures so that your letter kind of stands out like
I'm helping you.
I have so much fan mail.
Help me sift through it by sending me sexy photos of you, you bodybuilder.
Every unclothed muscular inch.
That's so gross.
He just sends in like a picture of his calf.
That's all he gets back to.
Just a calf.
Just a big toe.
Oh, Richard Ramirez would like that though.
Yeah, isn't that creepy?
Dear Richard.
I like that he's like trying to manipulate him.
Then he tries to compliment him kind of and then he's like making demands like no Polaroid
so no, but no Polaroid because I won't be able to keep those.
So, you know, here's the guidelines.
Here's the rules.
Here's my rules.
Just follow each of them every every direction.
But that's the thing.
That's what he was used to.
Yeah.
When he was out in the free world, he was able to manipulate and control a lot of the men
that he hung out with because a lot of them were in the closet.
A lot of them were not openly gay men and neither was himself.
So he was able to kind of use that.
They were usually much younger than him.
So he was able to use that.
He would supply them with drugs and alcohol.
He was able to use that.
There's a lot of things that he did with his victims that were based on control and manipulation
and he thinks he can still do that.
Yeah, he's like talking his way into it or like having an excuse for everything.
You know what I mean?
Fantastic excuse for everything.
This is why I am the way that I am.
And then of course if he never hears from this guy ever again, he's not going to care.
He's going to go on to the next victim.
He's going to wait until someone is able to be manipulated and just does what he says
because they're like, oh my god, you're Jeffrey Thummer.
It was definitely one of the creepier ones.
Yeah, that is really creepy.
Charles Manson, who was convicted of seven counts of first degree murder and conspiracy
to commit murder, often rambled in his writings and they were wrought with misspellings, tons
of misspellings throughout his letters.
It's so wild to me that he got charged with first degree murder and he never murdered
anybody.
God, that just shows how controlling and manipulative he was.
He was there, I think, one or two of the crime scenes while the murders were being committed
but I don't think he ever touched anybody.
Not even like, you know, accessory or anything.
It was, no, you get first degree fucking murder.
We're making sure you never get out.
Seven counts.
Seven prostitutes.
And she convinced Manson that he was actually a manager of a strip club and that Barbara
considered Manson to be certifiable, which is her word specifically.
Like he's certifiably nuts, like crazy.
He's certifiable.
That's the way she would describe him, which is what she said, not what we said.
Just to let you never better know.
One of these letters is as follows.
Mind you, it is almost completely illegible had I not found a transcript for this because
it cannot read his handwriting and even then whatever has been deciphered is also very choppy.
So bear with me.
Quote, Richard, it's always good to hear from you.
I've been a few years working out of the hole again.
Oh, well.
When the other tell me and make up stories they want to believe because it adds to their
job importance, I get to go over the same old, same old so I can turn the circles and
the chains of command.
Find your number and I'll call you.
I know you've been used by some people who call me brother and one day maybe it'll catch
up.
You and I are still solid as far as I'm concerned.
I did ask a good friend to help me and I explained.
We'll be in contact.
Easy.
Charles Manson.
P.S.
If I get out, could you get me a job as a bouncer?
End quote.
L.M.A.O.
That's hilarious.
I'm really gonna break your neck.
God.
He's never even touched me but he was like, I'm gonna break your neck.
I'm gonna break your neck.
He's never even touched me but he wants to be a bouncer.
I know.
Apparently he used to hang out at the CBGB though, which was like a club.
No, he thinks you can just like stare at someone and then they'll just do what he wants.
Yeah.
That's what he did.
Yeah.
He's not gonna bounce anybody.
He's gonna manipulate them to be bounced.
They're gonna bounce themselves.
So they're like, holy shit you have Charles Manson here.
That club's gonna be closed down in a week.
I'm just gonna fuck out of that place.
Fuck out of here.
You're like getting out of a club by Charlie Manson.
A strip club.
What the fuck are you doing?
Is that Charles Manson's accord in the door?
He just hopped up on the table and took a shit.
Seriously.
He started flinging it up people.
God.
He's standing over there like touching his temples with his fingers.
I think he thinks he's hypnotizing people.
No, but that's like really choppy.
Yeah, really choppy.
And I don't like that he says easy at the end.
That's kind of weird.
Easy.
Like not take it easy.
Not take it easy.
Yeah, just easy.
I'm gonna start saying that.
Easy breezy beautiful cover girl.
Like what does that mean?
We need Charles Manson in a cover girl ad.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
So that's the last one that I have.
I wish I could.
I was trying to look for a Susan Smith one, but I couldn't find one.
Yeah.
Because that would be really interesting.
That would be really interesting.
I actually thought I heard, I think I just saw a Tik Tok again.
I'm on crime talk now.
Like all of my Tik Tok algorithms are true crime.
And I think she just popped up on my true crime or my Tik Tok the other day.
But that was really good.
Like super interesting mental breakdown.
I feel like we don't have one that's anything like that.
Yeah.
As soon as I came, I came across an article.
I don't even remember what I was looking up, but I was looking up something.
I don't know.
I thought maybe that I would do ones about romance, you know, because I was kind of thinking of
Menendez Brothers and how they've been married and all the stuff and like what the process
would look like for people that maybe have been on the inside that are successfully married,
maybe even have children.
So I kind of went, was going to go that route, spoilers, I guess, because maybe we can still
do it.
But I came across Barb and Richie and I was like, wow, that is incredible.
I think Inside Edition's done a little case on them.
New York posted a little case on them.
And yeah, just pretty much that.
And then reading the letters, it was just, it was really interesting to me.
You know, it would be cool if we did like a killer couple Patreon bonus episode where
we had four couples or whatever and just like kind of did their stories like kind of in
a row.
Yeah.
So we can get like four cases almost in one like almost like the non-guilty verdicts one
that we did.
Yeah, that would be really interesting.
But anyway, yeah, that was really awesome.
Good job.
And again, all that stuff is out there.
Listen to Killers Vault.
Yeah.
I, it's the first time that I had heard about it too while doing this research and I'm really
excited to listen to it.
I didn't want to listen to it and then do this episode because I didn't want to be influenced
or take anything from that.
Exactly.
I just wanted to just give just a baseline of the kind of information that you'll find
on that podcast, but go listen to that.
Again, it was in 2021 with Elizabeth Rom and Eric Roberts, which I love Eric Roberts voice.
So, so from what I can tell, Eric Roberts is the one that reads all of the letters.
So he's got a really, you know, charismatic voice and he does each character, assuming
but yeah, seven episodes of that.
Yeah.
So just another podcast suggestion as well.
If we can, I told you I'd been listening to the podcast that I found in the UK.
I kind of looked up popular UK podcasts because you know, I love the accents and stuff, but
I wanted to get like kind of out of America and hear more of their true crime, but I've
been listening to this one called Seeing Red.
I think they've actually gotten like 5 million downloads.
They're pretty popular.
They don't need me to like vouch for them right here, but it's Mark and I'm pretty sure her
name is Bevin if I'm not mistaken, but they're really great.
Honestly, I've been listening to them and I followed them on Instagram and stuff too.
A really cute name, Bevin.
I think that's her name.
I don't know if it's a nickname or not.
And they're just, I think they've just been friends for a long time.
So cool dynamic.
They're not like a couple.
They're not, you know, two girls or two guys like we usually see under your crime with
two girls, especially.
So it's a cool dynamic and they're really cool, really, really wise and their cases are
everything that I haven't heard yet again because it's all mostly in the UK.
Yeah.
Interesting.
They do a really great job.
Good suggestion.
All right.
I think we are done for the night.
Yeah.
So we're done Thursday.
I'm so excited to listen to your case.
I know it's been two weeks of listening to your case.
Dude, this next case I'm telling you, like, get fucking ready.
Like, it is horrific.
Not the actual crime.
I mean, the crimes are horrific.
Don't get me wrong.
But the childhood, like, I was almost in tears.
So it's going to be a tearjerker.
Okay.
But you guys on Thursday.
You guys on the edge of the seat.
Yes.
Okay.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
Order a craft beer club today.