Hello!
Welcome back for the much-awaited second part of Diagnosing a Killer's Elliot Roger.
Oh my god, it's been a week.
A whole week.
And I haven't even heard, like I'm waiting with the listeners, so I haven't heard, I
mean I know the story, but I haven't heard your take on the second part.
Oh my gosh.
It's a lot.
I know other people have been waiting for it too.
I've been hearing a lot of like, okay, like release already, thank you.
And that's been saying that.
Here you are.
Welcome back.
Are you excited?
Yeah.
I'm Koelle.
I'm Kenna.
And I am excited to talk about this and oh my gosh, it's a lot.
Just get it out there.
Yeah, just get it out there.
Get the content out there.
And you know, I know we always say like not to say or we don't want everybody thinking
that we're just like, oh my god, I can't wait to like just get this over with.
But it's like, it is, it's like closing a chapter.
Yeah, there's a sense of relief when you've been in it.
And I think that's really, really long awaited, especially if it took you like longer to research
the crumble.
Yeah.
It's really, there's a sense of relief when you're done with it.
Cause you're like, I don't have to like read anything about that guy ever again if I
don't want to.
And it's really weird researching people, especially people that I don't know, I wouldn't
say like you feel connected with, but certain aspects that you can like kind of see it,
I guess, from their perspective a little bit as to why they are the way that they are.
I feel like I felt that way with Berkowitz.
I felt that way with kind of Randy Stair, honestly.
And when you, when you do so much research, you feel like you are uncovering all of these
layers of somebody's life.
It's like you get to know them.
And then you think about them.
And you know, I do.
I don't.
I do.
Absolutely.
So researching this case over the course of, you know, a week or two, it's every day I'm
thinking about Elliot Roger every day, you know?
Yeah.
And I think that's maybe the difference, I mean, obviously the difference in us, but
something that really helps me be a host of a true crime podcast is that I don't dwell
on my cases.
Yeah.
I have a huge like empathy bone, but it usually only happens for people in my life, like in
my personal life.
When I hear a story or read about someone, I don't feel the same as if I'm like in the
same, you know, circle of friends with them or whatever.
I feel like I can very easily forget about a story that I just heard and turn it off,
which is why I can listen to like true crime before bed or like on the way to work.
I don't carry it with me.
I'm just like, whatever.
Sure.
No, and I get exactly what you're saying.
I definitely listen to true crime all day, every day.
If I'm not in here recording, then I'm listening to it in my room.
And if I'm not listening to it in my room, I'm usually have my headset on and walking
around listening to true crime while I'm doing chores.
So, but I think it's more of when we're doing it for the podcast, I want to know anything
and everything about this person.
Yeah.
So it's a little bit more intimate in a way than just listening to something on TV or listening
to somebody else talk about it.
Yeah, for sure.
And I will definitely go further than my research shows.
Like I'll have all these different things that I know about this person.
I won't necessarily write every bit down, but I do extensive and external research,
even just in their college years or whatever.
I hear, I read an article.
I'm not going to include it in my research, but I'll read about it so that if it does
come up in the podcast, I can kind of relate it to something.
But yeah, I don't know.
I just feel like I think you and I do research very differently though.
I kind of just like watch it.
I watch a TV show and do research at the same time.
So it's all just like very monotone to me.
I'm not like deep diving.
And of course, I get all the info out there, right?
But I'm not like enveloped in the story because I'm watching something else to kind of distract
me a lot.
Because I feel like if I let myself kind of do that, then I would just be anxious all
the time, even more than I am.
Yeah.
No, I definitely have to put myself in the mind of that person.
I'm like Michelle McNamara.
I can see myself being her.
Really?
Oh, absolutely.
And just living and breathing a case like that and getting to know everybody's perspectives
or even Googling or YouTube being the way that somebody's voice sounds is very important
to me.
Yeah, I don't care about that.
Yeah.
And when you do research, you look up interviews and stuff like that.
I don't do that.
Yeah.
If I do it's like a transcript.
I don't watch videos.
Yeah, no, I have to.
I don't know.
That's so funny.
I didn't know that until now.
Well, I wanted to show you something really quick.
I didn't have a hair tie today and my lovely co-worker maybe won out of a sock.
Oh, that's cute.
I was like, does anyone have a spare hair tie?
And she comes in the room and she's like, I don't have a hair tie, but I cut a sock.
I think it was one of the kids socks.
That's so cute.
We're just an extra sock that we had.
That totally works.
Right?
It looks like one of those that are the non, like the one that puts a kink in your hair.
Oh, well, it totally did.
But well, barely though.
The non, there's like no elastic.
Yeah.
The non elastic ones.
Well, that was a sufficient explanation on our research.
Yeah.
Welcome everybody back to this episode.
We've been getting a lot of Instagram followers lately.
I know every day we're getting like more and more, which is super exciting and a lot more
like commenting traffic and things like that, like liking traffic, something like that.
And someone had commented on Albert Fish and on Randy Kraft, I think the same person.
And they said about Albert Fish, like he's terrible or something like that.
And Randy Kraft, he's like, he's not a very nice guy.
It's like, he definitely not.
We don't research nice people.
Yeah, exactly.
And then just to remind everyone, I know we have a lot of episodes out.
So if you can't find it, we did do an episode on Samuel Little.
My friend Steph had actually texted me today and asked if we had, and I said, yeah, I actually
did him really early on.
She goes, oh my God, I'll have to go back and listen.
I must have missed it.
So if anyone's like thinking about Samuel Little or you know who he is or you don't,
go listen to his story because it's pretty freaking wild.
That is a wild story.
I forget about that one sometimes, but everyone smells one of those where I go back and I'm
like, what have we done already?
Yeah.
And I see it and I'm like, oh my gosh, that was such a good episode.
Yeah.
He's dubbed as the deadliest serial killer in America.
I'm pretty sure still today.
His interviews are very intense.
Yeah, I wouldn't even know.
Oh, because they're very intense.
He has such a dead pan when he's described.
It's like he's telling you about his day or his grocery list.
It's very, very bizarre.
Very disconnected.
Yeah, very.
Wow.
Well, thank you guys for all of the Instagram traffic.
If you would like to follow us on Instagram and you don't have us, we are at Diagnosing
a Killer.
We also are that tag on, or the hashtag, what is it called?
The handle on every other social media except for Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnosis.
And then we do have Diagnosing a Killer.com.
There you can find links to our merch line, our resource line, and then also the tickets
for the True Crime and Parade of a Podcast Festival happening in like literally two months.
Yeah.
Which is crazy.
Yeah, it's beyond my scope right now.
Two months.
Two and a half months essentially because it's like the beginning of June.
Yeah.
Two months.
Y'all check out that merch tab please because I worked really hard on it.
It looks really good.
Thanks.
When we updated our link tree, I'm not sure if any of you saw.
It looks really good.
It looks like super uniform.
It actually looks good.
You can see the logos on everything and we have everything updated on that as well.
All right.
So today we're going to be talking about Elliot Roger Part 2.
We all know that.
But content warning, this episode depicts scenes of assault, sexism, racism, grave,
bodily harm, and injury as well as murder and suicide.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.
Remember that your mental health comes first and we love you.
We love you.
Speaking of mental health, before we get started, we are sponsored by BetterHelp.
So we do have a discount code for BetterHelp.
It is think 10% off of your first month with our discount code DAKPOD just as a reminder
because I feel like that ad is not in every single episode.
But I do want to share that because that's super important to me.
For sure.
And kind of in the same vein today is the very first day of Pride Month.
If you are an LGBTQAI plus young person in need of support, you can reach out to the
Trevor Project and one of their crisis counselors will be available 24-7.
If you would like to reach out, you can contact their website at thetreverproject.org or call
or text the number 212-695-8650.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's always going to be at the end of our show notes as well along with the National
Suicide Hotline.
And just about 988, right?
Yeah, 988 for the National Suicide Lifeline.
Lifeline.
And yeah, you should also be able to access those same numbers under our resource tab
on diagnosingaKiller.com.
Yep.
Whoo.
Clearly we love you guys a lot.
It's true.
We just want to make sure you guys are well taken care of.
We know it's hard with, especially with us researching True Crime a lot and doing the
podcast about it, it's probably just as taxing listening to True Crime a lot, you know,
because it's what we do.
And we understand that sometimes you need to break.
Sometimes you need some extra assistance.
It's true.
So we're there to offer the resources for that.
So last we left off, Elliot was in high school.
He would go on to graduate in 2009 and he looked towards his future education.
He was actually really excited for this chapter of his life since he kind of had this renewed
hope that he could get a girlfriend in college, right?
Yeah.
Plenty of college kids go to college as virgins.
Yeah, let me guess.
He showed up and immediately it was like, oh, these girls are bitches.
And all these guys are stupid and all the girls are dumb for dating them because they're
just jokes.
Pretty much.
Every single person in this entire college probably has like 50,000 people.
Okay, give me a second.
Okay.
So he would enroll in Pierce College, although just one course and Elliot was still excited.
He was still apprehensive, however.
After yet another argument was Samaya.
Elliot was kicked out of the house again by her and his father would go out and allow
this, even so far as to saying that he couldn't even come and visit the house because Samaya
said so.
Okay.
Elliot would continue the argument in his head, calling his father weak-minded, letting
a woman walk all over him and not being more commanding of his household.
Elbow mail.
Yeah, it's like the fake arguments you have after the fact in the shower.
Yeah, so these are all like in his journals and his manifestos saying that his father
was this weak individual and how dare he let a woman treat him that way when he himself
is essentially allowing Samaya to treat him that way, which is even more ridiculous.
You just reminded me when you were saying that you could feel like you can somewhat
like relate to these people you researched, I was like, damn, am I going to find your
fucking manifesto in your room?
Elbow mail.
That's totally me.
I'm totally an alpha male.
Yeah.
Did you see that one video where it's that high school kid where he's like talking back
to the teacher and he says the alpha male says blah, blah, blah, blah and the teacher
is like, cool.
Well, the beta male says, can you please take your seat?
That's amazing.
Seriously, like he's like, okay, Mr. Alpha Male, why don't you go ahead and take a seat?
Like, yeah.
What a diss.
It's pretty funny.
He's like, you're not going to make me back down.
I'm just going to be extra nice to you.
It's funny because the kid is standing, but the teacher is sitting at his desk and he's
just like, all right, alpha male, go ahead and take it.
Will the alpha male please take his seat?
She's like a child if you're going to act like one.
So Elliot would begin to stay at Lee Chin's, his mom's.
Finding something to do on Halloween night when you're in college isn't very hard to
do.
So after trolling social media, Elliot found a house party within walking distance.
He walked to the party only to be met by very few people sitting around just smoking weed,
which totally wasn't his thing to begin with.
He waited about 45 minutes, pretty much just brooding in the corner, right?
Because that's Elliot Roger.
Oh my God.
Takes it upon himself to find a house party, goes and then pouts.
Notice me, Simpire.
I don't know anybody here.
Yeah.
Well, you didn't fucking throw the party.
Well, you trolled on the internet and found one.
Nobody's going to know you.
Yeah.
Also, if anyone's in college, do not put your party address on social media because my
old roommate did that one time in college and it was a very bad night.
This is like 2010.
Okay, but I'm saying nowadays.
Oh yeah.
Definitely don't do that because this was like 2016 for me and it was not a good stuff.
Facebook events, all that stuff.
It was on Twitter, but yeah.
But still, you know, I mean, anybody could, I remember.
Anybody.
And I remember an old girlfriend of mine, there was this one chick that, I'm not going
to get into it, but either way, this chick found the address and it wasn't good.
Yeah, police stations also have Twitter.
Oh, yeah.
Okay, we got to stop bantering someone.
People want to hear the story.
On his way back home, a truckload of drunk college kids attended to egg Elliot as he
was walking.
When the boys missed him, he picked up an egg that hadn't broke and threw it back at
them.
The boys got out of the truck in an attempt to beat Elliot up, only for Elliot to produce
a pocket knife that he regularly carried with him at night.
The boys took off and Elliot began to find this great sense of power after this incident,
which reminds me of Timothy McVeigh, right?
Wasn't it Timothy McVeigh or Randy Stare?
It was like, it's the greatest equalizer.
Oh yeah, but that was done.
So after this incident, Elliot began to work out because no longer were people going to
judge him based off of his frail looking body.
Maybe even girls might take notice of him, you know?
Elliot would get his driver's license at 18.
Driving around always scared him before this.
He was like, oh no, like, yeah, he was scared to drive.
That's okay, some people are scared of driving.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
It's like he's scared of everything and then he gets mad when people don't just like make
him feel better.
Yeah.
Like, I'm sorry.
Like, go ahead.
Around this time, Lee Chen would actually start dating someone as well, but she hadn't
really been dating at all until now.
This likely didn't help Elliot's need for feminine attention.
Yeah, of course not.
But becoming depressed again and not finding any female attention at college, Elliot would
quit school.
How long did he try?
He went for about a semester, I think it was.
He started spending time in Barnes & Noble.
It's Barnes & Noble, right?
It's Barnes & Noble.
Okay, yeah.
Just one singular noble.
Just one noble.
There's plenty of Barnes, but only one noble.
So he would go daily and he would start reading about philosophy, self-help, sex and love,
and anything that really interests him.
He felt like at this point, if he was smart or worldly enough, surely a girl would be
interested in that, right?
Okay, so what I'm hearing is like, he's not willing to give one thing a chance for too
long.
Right.
He's gonna give it a try for maybe a few months.
It blows up in his face, or maybe it doesn't blow up in his face.
Maybe he just doesn't have a lot of progress.
Yeah.
Then he's just gonna try something else and then eventually he's gonna say, well, I've
tried everything I possibly can and then resort to whatever he resorts to.
Like the imposter syndrome thing.
It's like, remember we were talking about that the other day?
It's like, I'm not good at this one thing, so I'm gonna try something else because now
I'm defeated because I'm not good at this one thing.
But didn't we say one of the coping mechanisms is to realize that your life is a work in
progress?
Yeah.
Everything that you do is a work in progress.
It doesn't happen right away.
That doesn't mean it's not going to happen.
Right.
And that's the disconnect for him.
I think that he also has this very...
He thinks that things should just come easily to him.
Exactly.
And I think that when he realized, oh, I actually have to work at college, well, you know what?
I'm just gonna skip a billion steps and go to Barnes & Noble and read as much as I possibly
can.
Yes.
And therefore I will have the equivalent of a college education, but I did it on my
time and much faster.
Yes.
I completely agree with you.
And also, this is just my personal opinion.
I think it has a lot to do with the money and how he didn't want for anything when he
was a kid.
Right.
But not only did he not want for anything, it was very apparent to him that his parents
were like, okay, we'll just take care of it, we'll just take care of it.
So when he got into the real world, that's why there was that shock factor, right?
Oh, shit, now I have to do things for myself.
Personally, if I had a lot of money and I was raising children, I would make sure they
didn't want for anything, but I would tone down to them about how much money we have
so that they remain humble.
Yeah.
I understand what you're saying.
And I think that also with Peter and Lee Chen being divorced and all this other stuff that
maybe they felt like that guilt.
Yeah, they had like overcompensate.
Right.
You see that often with parents, but divorce when their kids are really young is what they
overcompensate a lot for that because they feel guilty that they are in a broken home
now and all this other stuff.
So I get the Xboxes and the PCs and any video game and anything that they can possibly give
to distract him from them being in their minds, bad parents.
Yeah.
And let's be real, it's easier said for me because I don't have children.
I could say whatever I want.
I don't know what it's like to be in that situation.
So that's personally just what I feel like might have been able to be done differently
for him to not feel like this growing up.
Right.
And I agree with that.
And it's no one's fault per se.
I definitely don't think his parents did it on purpose to be like, yeah, we're going
to raise this kid to be wanting to think everything comes easily to him.
Exactly.
Yeah.
But unfortunately, that's what happened as a result of how he was raised.
I think that they probably anticipated that their son was going to grow up respecting
his affluence, I suppose, because you do see that a lot with people that they tend to go
to Ivy League schools and they tend to, I mean, kind of like Menendez, right?
Like Menendez brothers.
Like they had this facade about who they were supposed to be versus someone like Elliot
who just kind of seems bratty.
It doesn't seem like it's something that he ever wanted.
He just wants to do whatever he wants to do, but he wants it now.
He doesn't want it later.
Well, yeah, and that's the risky part too.
You don't know what kind of mental disorder someone is predisposed to developing.
So that could be, and it has been in this sense, very detrimental.
The Menendez brothers, different story, they were raised thinking that they were very humble
about it when they were older.
And then of course, we know what happened.
But with Elliot, he might probably does have an underlying mental disorder, whether it's
narcissistic personality disorder, anti-social personality disorder, that is making him feel
the way he's feeling currently and on top of the way he was raised.
Absolutely.
One day while walking around the mall, Elliot ran into Maddie, his old childhood friend.
She was with her boyfriend.
And although Elliot claimed that he was never sexually attracted to Maddie, it was something
that completely grossed him out because now she was one of them.
Quote unquote.
One of them.
One of us.
What is it?
Oh gosh, what is it?
I don't know.
There's like another chant that I was thinking of when I get to give it.
No, but that's, again, what he does, it's his thing, is like, oh, I'm going to make
it my idea for you to not be attracted to me.
It's not your idea because you have a boyfriend.
It's my idea because now you're one of them because I don't want anything to do with you.
It will grow.
Ew.
So, around this time, Elliot began to unravel.
He started making multiple fake social media accounts that he called stalking accounts.
Right.
Yeah.
It's there.
Randy Stare, I remember he made all these fake characters.
For the ghost squad?
Yeah.
He would obsess over friends or former friends like guy friends, like acquaintances, and
all of their accounts, and then he would just go from their accounts to like hot girls to
like look at women's profiles, essentially.
Why didn't he just do it on his own platform?
It's not like people can see when you look at their profile.
I don't know.
Unless he tried to interact with them a few times or something.
Yeah.
So, stalking was a thing on Facebook?
Yes.
You're so cute.
I thought it was so cool because I had like 38 pokes one time.
We're not 38, but like a bunch.
But low key, like I would be the one to like, I would poke like 50 people and then I would
like log back in like a day later and be like, oh my God, all these people poked me when
they really just poked me back.
Yeah.
But I thought I was like popular.
It looked cool.
And I, the problem.
And I, the trauma.
I'm Elliot Roger.
So he would look through these women's profiles and constantly judge them for being like dumb,
for being with these jocks or these jerks or whatever.
And he was like, you know, you look like a sloot.
You look like a sloot.
And that's always the mindset.
It's like, if a girl doesn't want you, she's automatically a slut.
Or she's a lesbian.
She has to be.
She doesn't want to be with me.
Not to be with me.
You must be a lesbian.
But no, for real.
Like I've actually, I think I've said this on the past.
Before, like this guy asked me for my number one time.
I told him, no, and he called me a lesbian.
I'm like, yeah, I'm a lesbian.
If that makes you walk away.
Yes, I'm a lesbian.
Yeah.
Either way, you're walking away without my number.
There's worse things to be, bro.
That's not even a bad thing.
Exactly.
So one night when he was spending time with two guy friends, they were kind of going in
a bit of back and forth, like Elliot and this friend.
And just, you know, poking or justing at each other.
And the friend said, quote, no girl in this whole world will ever want to fuck you, Elliot.
End quote.
Oh my God.
It's like, that's fucked up.
He's like, yeah, I know that he runs in a corner.
No, but for real though, like that's fucked up.
He probably got his feelings big hurt.
Elliot said on reflect, reflecting back on this, quote, I already felt that no girl in
the world wanted to fuck me.
I was a kissless virgin after all.
That was the sole reason why I was suffering.
But to hear it come from someone else, someone like him, it really caused it to sink into
the core of my mental mentality and my emotions.
End quote.
A kissless virgin.
That's like really sad.
Like I'm not trying to lie to you.
No, I know.
That's really sad.
But like, I still can't excuse the future behavior.
But everybody just loves you.
Yeah, absolutely.
But plenty of people go to college versions.
Kissless visions.
Like, God, it's just, it's one of those things where it's like someone else that didn't maybe
have a predisposition to developing mental illness probably could have gone through the
exact same thing he went through and made it for themselves.
Right.
You know?
And it sucks because it's like, how do you differentiate who can handle that shit and
who can't?
And especially like bullies.
Like bullies aren't going to censor themselves because they're worried about some of his
feelings.
Well, it's just friends.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
But I think that's what I'm saying is like it probably hurt worse because his friend
said he's a virgin and like he poked at him too hard.
So sad.
Elliot said this was compounded because the friend that he had had had many successful
dating instances, experiences, I guess.
So you know, it just, it was like, oh, he's the one out of like the three of us that regularly
dates girls and then he's making fun of me for being a kissless virgin.
Like he knows what he's talking about.
Yeah.
And I didn't mean to laugh when you said that.
I was laughing because it suddenly, you're struggling to get it out.
I was like, yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's, that's really shitty.
I'd probably be big upset too.
Yeah.
Big mad.
That's a low blow.
After pressure from his mom to get a job, get a job.
Elliot decided to go back to college but at a new campus.
This one was full of beautiful people.
So of course, Elliot loved this.
He soon felt all the same things that he felt at his first attempt at college when he saw
couples walking around holding hands and he didn't feel like there was any female attention
coming his way.
Do you think, so side note, do you think that Elliot might have been struggling with his
sexuality?
Do you think he might have been at least bisexual or maybe gay?
Maybe.
Okay.
It doesn't really come out.
No, not really.
And I think in a lot of his YouTube videos, which we haven't really gotten to that point
here, but anytime he really mentions sex, he gets this kind of goofy smile.
He's like, you know, I just don't know what I'm thinking about having sex with a girl.
And it's this kind of like embarrassment or shyness.
It's very strange.
And I'll give my opinions later.
I'm going to write it down right now so I don't forget because I probably will.
So, Elliot had another like kind of get rich quick scheme.
He decided he wanted to become a writer, maybe becoming a famous writer.
Writing for movies would make him more desirable to women.
After all of this, it would probably be worth it, right?
He always said that he knew that he was destined for great things.
He would crush his own dreams by eventually looking up the statistics of how successful
writers are and getting stories picked up by movie companies.
So he gave up after a few months of dedicated writing.
Again, like it's my idea.
I'm going to shut it down before I can get, I can fail or I can get hurt.
Or somebody can tell me that I failed.
Yeah, exactly.
And also not giving it an honest try, just trying it for a few months and then giving
up.
Feeling defeated once again, he quit the only course that he was taking at college during
this time.
It was mostly because he raged after seeing a girl that he was interested in, in that
one class, holding hands between after class with another guy.
So he was like, oh, well the only reason I was taking this course because of that hot
girl and now that she has a boyfriend, I'm just going to quit.
I remember that.
I remember hearing that when I listened to the story.
I was like, are you kidding me?
Elliot, however, would keep this a secret from his mother out of fear of being kicked
out or being made to get a job.
Yeah.
He quit school and didn't tell his mom.
Because last time he quit school, again, after a few months, his mom was like, get
a job.
So now he's like, fuck them, we're just not going to tell her.
Elliot also developed a quickly growing obsession with the lottery.
He wanted to get rich quick, right?
So he would often fantasize about becoming a billionaire in order to attract the perfect
woman.
Oh my God.
It's so hard not to smile.
I want to be a billionaire as well.
But I'm not going to just sit on my ass and just hope I become a billionaire one day.
I'm working.
I did get a job after I quit school.
Not quit school, after I graduated.
I did get a job.
Right.
Now he thinks that someone's just going to come by and hand him a billion dollars and
he plays the lottery.
That's literally, I guarantee you, he's not even buying a lot of tickets.
He's just like, I'm going to win the lottery.
Just not buying anything.
Just hang out outside of a place that they sell lottery tickets.
Yeah, you just hang them up off the ground.
When Elliot turned 19, his father sent him a birthday card telling Elliot that he should
apologize to Samaya.
That's what his birthday card said.
You should also apologize to Samaya so we can spend more time together.
His dad is not helping at all.
No.
He never has been.
What a guy.
Elliot approached his mother about attending Santa Barbara University.
It's the University of California in Santa Barbara.
After talking with Peter about helping out financially, the two agreed that it would
be good for Elliot to live closer to the campus and get out of the nest.
Because he was living with Peter and Samaya.
When they kicked him out, he was living with Lee Chen.
Now they're like, go create your own life.
That's a great idea.
You should go do that.
Spread your wings.
Get out.
He said, quote, in truth, the move to Santa Barbara was actually a chance that I was
about to give the world, not the other way around.
I was giving the world one last chance to give me the life that I know I'm entitled
to, the life that other boys are able to live with ease.
If I still have to suffer the same rejection and injustice even after I move to Santa Barbara,
then that will be the last straw.
Then I will have my vengeance, end quote.
The life that I'm entitled to.
I'm entitled to this.
Let's be very honest.
No one is entitled to shit.
You need to earn it.
It's so true.
Fuck that mindset.
I can't.
God, that makes me so mad.
I cannot stand when people have that mindset.
I don't know what bugs me so much about it.
I mean, I'm sure it bugs everyone else, but I deserve this.
Just give it to me because I deserve it.
What the fuck did you do to deserve it?
Are you Jesus Christ?
Even then.
Like, no.
So he moved optimistic that maybe this will be the time that he finds someone.
Fair enough, the first few months of this new adventure did not bring Elliot a hot blonde,
and one by one he began to quit his classes yet again.
First few months.
Not even a whole semester.
Well, I think it might have been, I mean, a few months this pretty much a semester, right?
Either way.
He was livid that in a city and area this dense with hot college kids, he couldn't find a
single girl that would find him attractive.
Now during this time, is he trying to talk to girls?
No.
No, he's just waiting for one to walk up to him.
Yeah.
For sure.
God.
He would try to go back to school yet once again the following fall semester.
This time, about rooming with two Hispanic men, which apparently Elliot did not like.
Can you guess why?
Oh, because they were Hispanic?
Specifically because they were Hispanic, and he called them lowlife scum.
He wanted clean cut white roommates that were sure to attract blonde white women to his
apartment.
I'm sorry.
I know plenty of blonde women that are dating Hispanic men.
What the fuck do you mean?
He was like, look at the statistics.
I read the facts for two days.
He's a racist on top of all this, by the way.
God, dude.
Yeah, I'm sure he's like the only people that are entitled to shit in this world like
me.
God.
So his two roommates would quickly find out that he was a virgin and the two proceeded
to talk about their sexual experiences, which of course disgusted Elliot because he didn't
understand how these two unattractive Hispanic men had lost their virginities before he did.
He said, quote, I am a beautiful, magnificent gentleman, and he is a lowlife, low class,
pig-faced thug, talking about his roommate.
End quote.
Yeah.
Have you seen these photos of Elliot, anyone?
I'm sorry.
Not the best looking fucking dude.
He's also brunette.
He's not even blonde.
Like fuck you.
He had also expressed around this time that he considered himself to be a conservative
Republican and, well, let's be honest, certainly a racist.
Well, yeah.
I feel like there was a fly on my leg.
That was so nice.
Oh no.
That was Cher.
He sounded like Cher.
Oh no.
There is a good time, back then.
You haven't seen the last of me.
Like you're Cher.
I like you're Cher.
I'm gonna rock, way past the point of breaking, I'm getting.
That's so Cher.
Cher signed me up.
Can I be a back-up singer?
Sweet Cher.
So Elliot was just gonna try twice as hard to betray the image that he wanted the world
to see.
Since he has these Hispanic roommates that'll never attract a white woman.
He's just gonna have to try twice as hard.
Cause he can't attract a white woman.
No, no.
Now again, blaming someone else.
Blaming the roommates.
Oh, the white women are never gonna weigh in a white women that.
They're never gonna come back to my dorm cause these two guys aren't gonna attract them.
Certainly I couldn't do anything to attract them.
I couldn't.
I can't just take it upon myself to go do things.
Nope.
Cause it's their fault.
He wanted it to come easy.
So in his head he thought if I have Jock, Douchebag, you know, these things that I claim
that I hate, have them as roommates, they'll definitely be the ones to be around these
women that I want.
Cause he wanted them to just be there.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
So Elliot would change out his polo shirts to Hugo Boss and Armani, Calvin Klein, Gucci,
all this stuff, right?
So he decided to wear designer shit.
That's how he was gonna do it.
Cause before this, remember he was kind of, you know, just a little skateboardy or a little
more casual.
Yeah, it's like now I have to prove that I have this money and then people will be attracted
to me.
Let's see how this plan works.
This still would not provide any single girls numbers.
The only female phone numbers that Elliot had on his phone at this time were his family
members.
Oh my God.
He couldn't wait for the semester to be over.
He hated history class specifically because there was a jock stuck in between two of the
hottest girls in class and Elliot would have to watch on as the two of them flirted with
this meathead.
I literally just can't.
Elliot has gone to his local Starbucks one morning in July of 2011.
Cause that's where blonde white women hang out.
Yeah.
Well, he has to.
I mean, that's what rich people do.
They go to Starbucks, you know?
We must be fucking rich.
We're fucking rich.
Go like every fucking day.
Of course he claims that he was optimistic about his day.
I was feeling so optimistic this day I was going down to my local Starbucks.
Yeah.
Everything was great.
I'm going to meet a woman today.
That's what he's thinking.
Someone ruins it.
Couldn't be him.
He sat down outside enjoying the light summer breeze when he noticed a couple sitting near
him.
Bum, bum, bum.
He described the boy as being this punk rocker type who looked dirty and his girlfriend was
a pretty sun-kissed blonde.
This enraged Elliot and this was because just the day before he was actually having
lunch with his father.
He and his father noticed a pretty blonde sitting with this kind of nothing guy.
And Elliot had felt really embarrassed, especially with them sitting so close to them and they
were kissing and all that stuff.
And that Elliot felt really embarrassed that he didn't have a girlfriend sitting there
next to him while he was talking to his father.
He had wanted to throw his soda at the couple at the time, but feared that his father would
be even more embarrassed.
But this time, sitting outside the Starbucks, Elliot's father was not around.
Elliot waited for the couple to head to their car before running up to the couple and dumping
his coffee over the couple.
Yeah, he waited until they were leaving so that hopefully they would just go ahead and
leave anyway after he did that.
Elliot quickly ran away as he was fearful that he was about to get his ass kicked, of
course.
This was a very rewarding moment for Elliot as he had never acted out towards someone
else before other than the one egging.
Just two weeks later, he would throw iced tea at another couple that he saw kissing
in a food court.
It didn't say if it was on campus or in a mall, but either way, it was in July.
So he didn't get his ass beat either time?
No.
He was able to escape.
Probably should have.
Well, okay, this is all according to him too.
I don't know if anybody's really come forward saying that they've been the people getting
coffee or iced tea.
He just like pours it on the sidewalk next to them.
Oh my god.
Like he actually did that instead of throwing it on them?
Maybe he pretends to trip.
Yeah, in his memory, he like poured it all over them.
He actually just like threw it in the trash can next to them.
He was like, hey, it was slashed.
You're in the splash zone, bitch.
So that summer, the family would take multiple trips, sometimes with his father, sometimes
with his mother.
And with each trip, Elliot longed to share these travels with someone.
He imagined walking down the beach holding hands with a girl, watching the sunset, rolling
in the sand together.
He imagined what it must feel like to hold the person that you love so closely with their
warmth and their lended ear.
All the romantic moments that he had to offer and no one to share these views with.
As her-
Fucking do something about it then.
Try to talk to people.
Sorry, I cut you off.
But like don't just sit there and be mad that you don't have this.
Fucking try.
No.
That's obviously not his thing.
No, it's not.
Nothing is not his thing.
As heartbroken as he was, he was equally filled with rage.
After returning to the next school year, Elliot stopped by his local Starbucks on his way
to classes.
This would be the first day back, and again, he found this newfound confidence, as he usually
does.
It's like he's hitting a reset button every time.
Here we go again, going during the semester.
Hopefully someone will come and talk to me this time.
That's me today.
Because I'm sure as hell not gonna fucking do it myself.
Hopefully I'll have to meet today.
Hopefully I'll win the lottery without buying tickets.
He fantasized throughout the day that groups of girls were swooning over him every time
that he walked by.
They were so attracted to him, all the giggling that he was hearing was out of admiration
and not disgust.
Like he started thinking, let me change my mindset here.
Okay, sure.
That might work.
This worked for some time, often repeating mantras to himself like, yes, I am the image
of beauty and supremacy.
Okay, well that's a law or a system.
But if it works, it works.
It works.
Make it so you can make it.
You know what?
Make it so you become a girl.
In January 2012, after getting into his car and leaving campus for the day, he claimed
that he was laughed at by a group of girls at a bus stop near campus.
Immediately, Elliot turned his car around and threw the remainder of his Starbucks coffee
at the girls.
He said about this attack, quote, it was such a pity that my latte wasn't hot enough
to burn them.
Those girls deserved to be dumped in boiling water for the crime of not giving me the attention
and adoration I so rightfully deserve, end quote.
You just brought me back.
Core memory unlocked because I remember I was delivering a door dash in an apartment complex
when I heard that exact line from the last time I listened to it.
It made me so mad.
I was like, if only my coffee was going to be boiling hot.
But didn't he just have this mindset that day if they're laughing?
They're laughing because they're like, they're embarrassed because he said Kia.
What happened with that?
No, I think he was having that at the beginning of the semester.
This is after winter break.
Oh, I thought it was the same day.
No, not the same day.
I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like.
No, it was months later.
So he was trying to tell himself, like, today's the day.
The day is clean.
Oh, God.
Around this time, in Elliot's writings, he had admitted to having very deep and dark fantasies
about stabbing random couples and even talked about skinning his roommates alive because
of their sexual experiences that they regularly talked about.
That escalated quickly.
Yep.
By February the following month, Elliot again began to drop classes one by one after being
hurt several times by certain girls that he found attractive and learning of their
having boyfriends.
That's why he was hurt because he found out that they had boyfriends prior to even seeing
him ever.
Yeah, saying anything to him.
They had boyfriends and he found out somehow because he probably stopped their social media.
Many times in his manifestos, he would name these girls by at least their first name,
but would never really have interactions with them.
So again, I didn't put their names in here because, you know.
Yeah, no, it makes total sense.
Just hate people that are happily in relationships even though you didn't know them when they
got in.
Okay.
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
I would attempt a schooling, quote, when I dropped my college classes, I crossed a threshold
that I knew existed but never actually believed I would cross.
It completely ended all hope I had of living a desirable life in Santa Barbara.
I realized that I would be a virgin forever, condemned to suffer rejection and humiliation
at the hands of women because they don't fancy me, because their sexual attractions
are flawed.
They are attracted to the wrong type of male.
I always mused to myself that I would rather die than suffer such an existence, and I knew
that if it came to that, I would exact my revenge upon the world in the most catastrophic
way possible, at least then I could die knowing that I fought back against the injustice that
had been dealt to me, end quote.
Like, he really feels scorned.
Like, he really, really believes that he's being overlooked and he's kind of like this
silent god amongst men, you know?
Why doesn't he try to become one of these guys that gets these girls then?
I mean, yeah, maybe he did the frosted tips or whatever.
Maybe he did the Armani.
But like, why doesn't he go out for sports?
Become a jock himself if those are what girls like, because he doesn't want to fucking put
in the effort.
Yeah.
And I don't get me wrong, like, people should love you for you.
You shouldn't have to change for anyone.
But he's clearly so bent out of shape about it.
He could have done that.
Maybe it would have worked.
Or you know what you could have done?
Yeah, just be nice to people or actually try to talk to people.
And so they're just writing about them for years on end and stalking their social media
with creeper profiles.
Ely had then devised his secret plan in which he called the day of retribution.
He says, for who?
He says, quote, I will destroy all women because I can never have them.
I will make them all suffer for rejecting me.
I will arm myself with deadly weapons and wage a war against all women and the men they
are attracted to.
And I will slaughter them like animals that they are.
If they won't accept me among them, then they are my enemies.
They showed me no mercy and I, in turn, will show them no mercy.
The prospect will be so sweet and justice will be ultimately served.
And of course, I will have to die in the act to avoid going to prison, end quote.
I, like, go ahead.
Keeping all this a secret from his parents and the fact that he had already dropped out,
Elliot would attend the premiere of The Hunger Games with Peter and Samaya, where there's
actual video of his walking the red carpet in March of 2012.
Did he actually apologize to Sinea or whatever his name is?
Samoya?
No.
So how did he hang out with him again?
Didn't his dad say, like, hang out with us again?
Only if you apologize?
No, at the house.
By the way, have you got that?
You're not allowed to come to the house.
Yeah, we don't want you in the house.
It's really eerie because he's already thought about his plan, at least, or this day.
And there's no doubt that playing over the video, you can see him just kind of looking
around like, these idiots have no idea, you know, kind of shit.
The reckoning or whatever.
The reckoning.
The revelation.
What is it?
The retribution.
Yeah, the retribution.
That was super catchy, obviously.
We definitely remembered it right off the bat.
By June of 2012, Elliot was convinced that if he won the lottery, it would actually keep
him from committing any crimes against anyone because he would finally be rich and therefore
be desirable to women, like Randy Starr and the coin toss.
Or here's a crazy idea, just like ask your dad for some money, maybe.
That's what's strange to me about it, too, is the fact that his family is wealthy, so
isn't he kind of wealthy by proxy?
I understand that they want him to work for stuff because his dad worked for stuff.
Well, I don't know, but his grandfather was that famous photographer, too.
It's just another excuse.
If this doesn't happen, then I'm gonna do this.
If they don't want me, then I'm gonna do this.
If they don't want me, well, you're not gonna make an effort, though.
It's like, okay, if I sit here and I don't even know how to compare it to something.
If I sit here and I pee my pants, then I'm gonna go jump off a cliff.
It's like, yeah, that's gonna happen because you're sitting there forever.
You have to eventually do something or else you're gonna fucking pee your pants.
Not a very good analogy, but you know what I mean.
Around this time, Elliot would say, quote, I tried to pretend as if I was part of a wealthy
family.
I should be.
That was the life I was meant to live.
I would be.
If only my damnable mother had married into wealth instead of being selfish.
If only my failure of a father had made better decisions with his directing career instead
of wasting his money on that stupid documentary.
End quote.
Okay.
But again, it's like everyone else's fault.
Yeah.
Everyone else's fault.
And then he's like, okay, I don't win the lottery.
I'm killing people.
It doesn't buy a ticket.
Yeah.
Well, didn't win the lottery.
Well, well, seriously.
Two out of three.
Fuck.
Woo.
Sometime in April, Elliot lost all contact with his best friend, James.
He was essentially ghosted by James and although Elliot attempted multiple times to reach out
to James, no conversation was ever had between the two as to why they became estranged.
In July, 2012, Elliot was walking through one of his favorite parks.
He would often like to people watch in the parks and he became enraged when he saw a
group of young people playing kickball.
The boys were of course tall, handsome jocks and the girls attractive blondes.
Elliot recollected seeing one of the girls doing handstands and was aroused yet disgusted
every time her shirt would fall down exposing the girl's midriff.
Midriff.
And you know it's midriff.
I didn't know that until today.
I thought it was middrift.
Me too.
No, it's a midriff.
Why is it a midriff?
Apparently.
A midriff.
But it's spelled like middrift.
No, it doesn't have a T. It's double F's.
No, it's...
Sorry.
Settle down.
I was angry.
M-I-D-R-I-F-F.
Midriff.
No, it's not.
It is.
My mind was blown.
What's that?
It's like my mind was blown.
What the hell?
Her mouth swung open.
She was like, wow.
What?
Why isn't it middrift?
I don't know.
I thought it was middrift.
It's a midriff.
Midriff derives from mid and a very old word for the belly.
For the belly.
A riff is a belly.
Huh.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Wow.
Well, you learned something today.
I learned something today.
I learned a lot today, actually.
Hopefully everyone listening to this learned something today, also.
True.
Elliot decided to drive to the nearest store and purchase a super soaker that he filled
with orange juice.
He drove back to the park.
So all this time to think about what he was going to do.
Yeah, of course.
He drove back to the park and began covering the group with orange juice.
And did he get his ass kicked this time?
No.
What?
He was actually kind of above them, if I remember correctly, so they would have to like...
That's like the main...
He was like on a ledge or something.
Bad person.
Yeah.
Like a sniper.
He said, quote, I wish I could have sprayed boiling oil at the foul beasts.
They deserve to die horribly, painful deaths, just for the crime of enjoying a better life
than me.
End quote.
Just for living their lives.
And he's admitting it.
You know, I take back what I said earlier.
No way he has anti-social personality disorder.
No fucking way.
He's way too involved in these people's lives.
It's so true.
Oh my gosh.
Like the anger.
Where did this anger come from?
I know that he had a rough childhood.
I know that his parents split him in a lot of travel, but arguably nothing that bad happened
to him.
No, I mean that angry.
I think that he's just completely disconnected.
He never had a chance to connect, like, ever.
Yeah.
Because he was always moved around.
That makes sense.
He must feel like such isolation from like the human race, if anything.
Yeah.
They're all just like rats to him and he's like a fucking mad scientist.
Dude, this is fucking wonky.
So Elliot would quickly hop in his car and drive away from the scene.
He's like, hey, hey, hey, they're sticky and they have vitamin C in their body.
Vitamin C.
I'm sure at first people were like, what the fuck?
And then they were like, oh, it's orange juice.
Okay, could be worse.
Could be worse.
I would be pissed.
I hate orange juice.
Elliot was beginning to be hopeful that he would win the lottery as the Mega Million
Jackpot rose to $120 million by September of 2012.
Okay.
Elliot would often meditate trying to manifest his winning the lottery.
He felt like it was his destiny to win the money.
Thus the world would be saved from his wrath.
He walked into a convenience store and purchased a $5 ticket.
He would find out later that evening that, of course, he did not win the $120 million.
Bro, imagine if he did.
We wouldn't be talking about this right now.
He is a god.
He predicted that shit.
No, like, dead ass.
No, but honestly, like, all this time that he's been spending thinking about this and
writing his manifesto, like, he could have been working.
He could have saved a sizable amount of money by this point.
I think around this time as well, he was traveling to and from Arizona to also buy
tickets in Arizona.
Yeah.
So you're spending money instead of trying to make money?
Instead of trying to make it.
Cool.
Elliot now moved into his new apartment for the semester but had yet to gain any roommates.
And after he realized that he lost, or not lost, but did not win.
Yeah.
That's so true.
It's not like he didn't lose anything.
He didn't lose anything.
Except for his $5.
Except for his five bucks.
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So again, he was living by himself at this point and he proceeded to get extremely intoxicated.
And he actually started destroying some of his own property, including his laptop.
He cried and he screamed into pillows all night long until he cried himself to sleep.
But like at this point, he felt like his brain was breaking because he had put all of everything
that he had waited like six months for this.
And he's like, it's all going to be worth it because I'm going to win that money and
then I can start the rest of my life.
I know I've been like making some like kind of harsh jokes and comments about him, but
that's got to really fucking suck.
Like genuinely thinking that you are so on the outside from everyone and not having anything
in your mind that should prove you otherwise, should prove you wrong.
Yeah, it's true.
We can sit here and say, well, why don't you just go fucking get a job?
Why can't you just go fucking whatever?
But his brain doesn't think that way.
His brain only thinks of these linear little storylines that he has.
And I don't, again, don't want to necessarily blame the parents because they have done a
bunch of things different, absolutely.
But I do think that they kind of missed the mark on making him independent.
I feel like his whole young childhood, he was just following in their footsteps, going
wherever they needed to go for work, just kind of having whatever he wanted, all the
money he could have.
And then when he became an adult, they were like, okay, figure it out.
Instead of having him be independent little by little as he was younger growing up, well,
then kind of easing him into the real world instead of just throwing him into the real
world when he became old enough.
But they're not really throwing him either.
They're paying for his apartment and shit.
He doesn't have a job.
That's true.
That is true.
I mean, this is like them thinking, okay, the next step in a affluent privileged young
man's life is to go to college and go live in student housing and go do that.
Although he probably thought in his brain, why should I have to work when I've been given
everything my whole life already?
Why can't you just continue giving me everything and anything I want?
And they probably thought he wants for nothing, but that doesn't negate him potentially having
like a passion of some kind.
It just allows the money to be there for whatever you want.
He could have been, he could have had passions like being a drummer or whatever.
So far his only passion that we see like at all, and I probably, I think I might have
mentioned it in the last episode that he had a PC, so he did like gaming, video gaming,
and he was always, he always liked video games, but his other passion was like Game of Thrones.
So he was really like into fantasy, D&D, you know, World of Warcraft stuff like that as
well.
So he was also just a really nerdy guy too, you know?
Yeah, I don't know.
It's hard because you don't really know who to blame in this instance.
Like you want to blame him, you kind of want to blame the parents, at least me.
Maybe nature, I don't know.
It's just, it just feels like there's, it's not enough that went wrong to create this,
in my opinion.
So now Elliot Roger is a 21 year old virgin who has never been kissed.
He was not a billionaire.
He was barely making it through school.
And Elliot decided that his new thing that he would get into would be guns.
So he started visiting gun ranges and eventually would purchase a Glock 34 semi-automatic pistol
by December 2012.
During this time, Elliot was actually seeing psychiatrist Dr. Charles Sophie.
You know that name?
I do.
Yeah, from Dr. Phil.
From Dr. Phil, I was gonna say that.
Yeah, that was Elliot's psychiatrist.
Yikes.
Isn't that inco...
That's kind of, I don't know, I thought that was kind of cool.
But hey, everybody knows Dr. Sophie.
That's pretty dope, but everyone also knows Elliot Roger got off her kid thing.
Whoops.
Yeah.
His parents were the ones that arranged this after some discussion with Elliot about his
depression.
So they sort of knew what was going on, but again, he's in Santa Barbara.
They didn't really have him around all the time, but this was after a very lengthy phone
conversation between his mom and Elliot.
Okay.
Nevertheless, a six hour P226 was purchased the following spring, 2013, and Elliot described
this gun to be more efficient in acting out his day of retribution.
So he still had plans to go through this.
Okay.
Did he tell Dr. Sophie about any of this?
You know, if I know it's all privileged information.
I don't think so.
Elliot also found a website that was dedicated to discussing and supporting the ideas that
women were evil and vile, that they are essentially put on this earth to ruin men.
Thank you.
Or create men.
Whatever you want to see it.
Whatever you want to see.
You don't want to, you know, whatever.
Yeah.
I mean, you wouldn't fucking be here.
Whatever.
He did begin to fall down a rabbit hole that has since been dubbed the mannosphere, right?
So he fell down this wealth of information, apparently, no pun intended.
So the mannosphere is a collection of websites, blogs, and online forums promoting masculinity,
misogyny, and the opposition to feminism.
The mannosphere overlaps with the far right and alt-right communities.
It has also been associated with online harassment and has been implicated in radicalizing men
into misogynistic beliefs and glorifying the violence against women.
So these are like real gems.
Yeah, I'm actually a part of that organization.
In disguise.
Yeah, so these are real stand-up gents, real gentlemen.
You know, I bet they hold the door for you.
Real nice folks.
So, yeah.
In July of 2013, Elliot made it a point to work out every day for two weeks straight
and then attend an upcoming party.
He's like, I'm going to work out for like two fucking weeks and then I'm going to be
I'm going to be so buff before this party in two weeks.
When was said party?
July 20th.
Shit.
And this is a few days before his 22nd birthday.
That's my best friend's birthday.
Elliot got swasty before attending this party.
He was so nervous he went in thinking that this may be the night that he may lose his
virginity.
So he got really drunk because we all know that works.
Well, yeah, and he's like super swole now.
Yeah, he's super swole.
He can handle his vodka.
Yeah, absolutely.
Heard.
I found this really funny, so I put it in here.
He calls beer pong quote a crude drinking game like you're so above beer pong.
I still fuck with beer pong.
Lighten up.
What did beer pong do to you?
Yeah, calm down.
It's so crude.
Oh my God, how dare them.
I'm just going to get wasted.
But the people that are actually trying to enjoy their time are so crude.
And pace themselves.
Of course, Elliot shows up and expects people to just start talking to him.
So he was doing his favorite thing.
He was watching people and he was stewing, right?
Yeah, he's just cross armed in the corner.
He noticed an Asian man talking to a white girl and this absolutely enraged Elliot.
He felt that he was superior because at least he was half Asian, therefore making it more
sense that this white girl would be more attracted to him than this Asian man.
Okay.
Yeah.
He called himself Eurasian.
He was like, oh, I'm Eurasian.
I'm exotic.
His previous statements don't really align with me.
Yeah.
Well, he's just a racist piece of shit.
Yeah, it's the same.
He thinks that white people are superior.
He wants to be white, essentially.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
Just in the way that he thinks that he's portraying himself.
Yeah, I understand that.
Yeah.
Okay.
He just wishes he was white.
I know that he could attract white women, but it's like it's the quality of the person.
It has nothing to do with that.
Nothing to do.
Maybe it's because you're an asshole and you're standing in the fucking corner of the fucking
party judging people.
You've got a sour puss look on your face.
You're wasted.
You can barely stand up.
Maybe that's why nobody wants to talk to you.
It's all like, they're fucking pissing me off.
They're fucking pissing me off.
It's on the cross side.
So he walked past the two in order to get inside and go out to the front of the house.
He essentially shoulder checked the guy and said something under his breath, potentially
a slur, although he didn't specify that in his manifesto, but he essentially had said
something that was very offensive.
Of course he didn't say what he said in the manifesto because he wanted to be like, wow,
if that guy kicked his ass, he wanted to be like, well, this guy kicked my ass.
I didn't even say anything.
Yeah.
He wanted it to be that guy's fault.
Yeah.
That guy didn't do anything though.
It wasn't an altercation.
I bet that's pissing him off even more than no one said anything.
No one said anything.
There was like whatever that guy's drunk.
Elean Malone is not worth it.
Yeah, it's time for him to go home.
He's drunk.
Yeah, it's only nine o'clock.
Elean found a secluded ledge on the property and this ledge kind of fell down into the
street, but it was like kind of had a bit of a view of the rest of the party, if that
kind of makes sense.
So he sat there, of course, and he's stewing and he's just being solo-dolo and just being
mopey when all of a sudden a group of girls and guys kind of came over to this ledge as
well.
And because, I mean, it was a nice view and it's kind of secluded.
And he doesn't own the place.
He can't tell anybody where he's gone.
Exactly.
And he's just like, guys, could you just tell him having a moment by myself right now?
They're my spot.
I claimed this.
This is mine.
He like spreads out like all the way.
He starts lying down.
Please, please, please do not.
Can't sit here.
Yeah.
So the group started laughing, dancing, just having fun.
They're at a fucking party.
Elliot's rage grew even more.
He stood up and attempted to start shoving the girls and some of the guys off of the
ledge, like off of the ledge.
And it's not a very short distance, let's say that.
It's at least like a story of a house.
It's a pretty big fall.
Elliot essentially was unsuccessful in this attempt and in fact was eventually pushed
off the ledge himself by one of the other party goers.
Yeah, that's kind of hilarious.
He fell and would snap his ankle.
He would break his leg.
Not the lap.
It's not funny.
It's not.
It's like, what are you going to do to someone that's trying to push you off?
You're going to push them off.
Yeah, it's like, you know, I mean, it's not like it's like into a pool or anything.
Yeah, just that I'm sure it's like, who do you think is falling and just crack.
Dana told me about this meme that she saw the other day and it was like, this summer
I'm not fucking around.
If anybody pushes me in the pool, I'm not coming back up.
Enjoy your murder charge, you asshole.
I'm just not coming back up.
I'm going to scare everyone at that party.
Enjoy your murder charge.
So Elliot tried to stumble away, but of course he realized his leg's broken, which is horrific.
So he finally reached his car, but when he reached his car, he realized that he left
his sunglasses behind.
Gucci, of course, his mom had bought them.
Just got a hobble back over.
He was so drunk that he actually mistook the house next door to the party house as being
where his sunglasses were.
But there were also party goers that lived in that house.
So it's not like they weren't a separate, totally separate thing.
It's not like in a neighborhood because this is, of course, a college town.
So there's tons of college kids.
There's this quiet ass dark house next to it.
And then this house is all lit up and bumping.
He goes up to the quiet button to the witch house.
There's a witch that lives there.
My glass has got to be around here somewhere.
My glass.
I can't see a thing without my glasses.
It's also at night.
How do you remember your sunglasses?
What are you about to drive?
Because he wears his sunglasses at night.
Duh.
So he was so drunk he began berating anyone that was at the house, even though I think
that they probably all knew each other.
And either way, either he said one too many things or the party where he was shoving people,
it either got around.
Either way, a group of the guys began to beat the shit out of Elliot essentially.
So he was probably like, fuck you motherfuckers, you took my sunglasses and you pushed me
off the ledge.
Yeah, and then my fucking ankle was broken and I got it to my mom.
No, it was you.
You were being the dickhead.
Elliot began to swing back, landing a few punches, but this only fueled the mob more.
Not only did he not get his Gucci sunglasses that his mom bought him, but he also lost
the gold necklace that his grandma had bought him just a few months before that.
Oh, that's kind of sad.
I know.
Elliot would be on crutches for at least six weeks and he would also require surgery to
fix his ankle.
Now that'll give him some attention.
Well, this only depressed the fuck out of Elliot even more because he's like, who's
gonna even want to do the cripple?
That's what he is saying.
Oh my.
He said that.
I didn't say that.
He said that in the manifesto.
What's your fucking did?
That no one wanted to date cripples.
That's what he said.
False.
He's not crippled.
He's on crutches for six weeks.
You're temporarily on crutches.
You're not disabled.
Exactly.
You're not disabled.
Gosh.
Elliot realized that the day of his retribution would have to be postponed.
I mean, yeah, what is he gonna do on crutches?
Get on up there really quick.
I can laugh because I was on crutches for six weeks and it fucking sucked.
A session that Elliot would have with Dr. Sophie brought more frustration for Elliot.
Recently, Lynn Leachon and Samaya had had an argument and Samaya showed up to the counseling
session between Leachon, Peter and Elliot.
So she was like, I'm going.
The three of you have family counseling.
I'm going.
That's not how that works.
That's how Samaya thinks it works.
Insurance doesn't work like this.
I don't know.
Elliot said about this session, quote, for more than half of the conversation, the doctor
spent time resolving this petty conflict instead of addressing the troubles that I was going
through.
When we finally did get to my session, Dr. Sophie ended up giving me the same useless
advice that every other psychiatrist, psychologist and counselor had given me in the past.
I don't know why my parents wasted money on therapy, as if it would never help me in
my struggles against such a cruel and unjust world.
The doctor ended up dismissing it by prescribing me a controversial medication, Respiradone.
After researching this medication, I found that it was absolutely wrong for me to take.
I refused to take it and I never saw Dr. Sophie again after that end quote.
Because you're a doctor, right?
Because you can decide that.
Apparently.
Okay, now I don't feel so bad for Dr. Sophie.
I don't feel bad for Dr. Sophie.
Because he wasn't like actively giving him therapy when this whole thing went down.
I mean, I get how Elliot must have felt like, okay, these are my sessions to figure out
my shit and they're going to try to figure out my stepmom and my mom's issues.
Absolutely.
I can completely get that.
But I don't get the, first of all, I don't get that he's giving me the same useless advice.
Well, yeah, it's not going to work with that attitude.
Second of all, you're looking up a medication and deciding for yourself if it's going to
work.
Are you a psychiatrist?
Right, exactly.
So WebMD says that Respiradone is used to treat certain medical disorders or mood disorders,
such as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and irritability associated with autism spectrum
disorder.
Wow, he didn't like that.
Respiradone belongs to a class of drugs called an atypical anti-psychotic.
So.
He, that's probably exactly what it was.
He's like, oh, he's trying to call me crazy.
I'm not crazy.
Or he thinks I'm autistic and I'm not or whatever.
Or I'm an ex-physicist or whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
That's, that's exactly why.
But like here, here we are again for the millionth fucking time, not even giving it a chance
blaming someone else.
Yeah.
Like it's a fucking cycle.
By September, Elliot had thoughts of killing his little brother Ann Samaya, but decided
that it might be too risky because he would hate to have to kill his father as well.
So at first, Elliot decided to take advantage of his father's busy schedule and planned
on killing the two while Peter was out of town.
Two new roommates, James Hong and David Wang, would move into Elliot's arranged student
housing.
He hated the two men and said, quote, these are the biggest nerds I've ever seen.
And they're also both very ugly with annoying voices, end quote.
Would you rather than be like hot jocks?
And quote, I knew that when the day of retribution came, I would have to kill my housemates to
get them out of the way.
If they were pleasant to live with, I would regret having to kill them.
But due to their behavior, I now have no regrets about such a prospect.
In fact, I'd even enjoy stabbing them both to death while they slept, end quote.
Yeah, I remember that.
That's really shitty.
Ugh, that's awful.
And these poor guys, they're just college kids.
They just police.
They just police, they're randomly.
I had two random roommates in college.
Neither one of them ever killed me.
But who knows?
Who knows?
Who knows what could have been?
God, that's so scary.
Lee Chen would buy Elliot his prized black BMW later that year of 2013.
He felt that this car was one that he had always deserved.
For what?
For doing what?
Just being alive.
Nothing?
It was his, it was his namesake.
It was his whatever.
Yeah.
It was the life that he deserves to have.
Like, deserve-
I deserve to have it.
I'm entitled to this life.
I haven't put, yeah, entitled this way better than I deserve because deserve means that
it kind of implies that you worked for something.
Yeah.
Elliot went back to planning his rampage after the winter break and in January, began toying
with the idea of committing it on Valentine's Day.
He was worried that although restaurants would be busy, there might be tighter security
and more cops around the college town that evening since people were probably going to
be drinking and out and things like that.
So he decided to set the date of Saturday, April 26, 2014 because he also said he needed
more time to plan.
He was like, I need more time to plan this.
So not Valentine's Day?
Not Valentine's Day.
Not even close.
What the fuck?
Because Valentine's Day will be too crazy.
How about Labor Day?
Yeah.
It looks like way fucking far away.
It would purchase a third handgun, more ammunition, and various knives.
Elliot's plan is as follows.
Bear with me, everyone.
Quote, On the day before the day of retribution, I will start the first phase of my vengeance,
silently killing as many people as I can around Isla Vista by luring them into my apartment
through some form of trickery.
He wasn't sure what yet.
Just some form of trickery.
Is it not Isla Vista?
Either way.
Okay.
Anyway.
The first people I would have to kill are my two housemates, to secure the entire apartment
for myself as my personal torture and killing chamber.
After that, I will start luring people into my apartment, knock them out with a hammer,
and slit their throats.
I will torture some of the good-looking people before I kill them, assuming that it is the
good-looking ones that had the best sex lives.
All of that pleasure that they had in life, I will punish by bringing them pain and suffering.
I have lived a life of pain and suffering, and it was time to bring that pain to people
who actually deserve it.
I will cut them, flay them, strip all the skin off their flesh, and pour boiling water
all over them while they are still alive, as well as any form of torture I can possibly
think of.
When they are dead, I will behead them and keep their heads in a bag, for their heads
will play a major role in the final phase.
This first phase will represent my vengeance against all of the men who have had pleasurable
sex lives while I have had to suffer.
Things will be fair once I make them suffer as I did.
I will finally even the score.
The second phase will take place on the day of retribution itself, just before the climactic
massacre.
The second phase will represent my war on women.
I will punish all females for the crime of depriving me of sex.
They have starved me of sex for my entire youth, and gave that pleasure to other men.
In doing so, they took many years of my life away.
I cannot kill every single female on earth, but I can deliver a devastating blow that
will shake all of them to their core of their wicked hearts.
I will attack the very girls who represent everything I hate in the female gender, the
hottest sorority of UCSB.
After doing a lot of extensive research within the last year, I found that the sorority with
the most beautiful girls is Alpha Phi.
I know exactly where their house is, and I sat outside in my car to stalk them many
times.
Alpha Phi sorority is full of hot, beautiful, blonde girls.
The kind of girls I've always desired but was never able to have because all of them
looked down on me.
They're all spoiled, heartless, wicked bitches.
They think that they are superior to me, and if I ever tried to ask one out on a date,
they would reject me cruelly.
I will sneak into their house around 9pm on the day of retribution, just before all
of the parties are starting, and slaughter every single one of them with my guns and
knives.
If I have time, I will set their whole house on fire, then we shall see who the superior
one really is.
The final phase of the day of retribution will be my ultimate showdown in the streets
of Ilavista.
On the morning before, I will drive down to my father's house to kill my little brother,
denying him of a chance to grow up to surpass me, along with my stepmother, Samaya, as she
will be in the way as well.
My father will be away on one of his business trips, so thankfully I won't have to deal
with him.
If he doesn't go away on that trip, I might even have to postpone the whole plan, because
of fear that I might hesitate if I have to kill him.
Once I've taken care of my brother and my stepmother, I will switch over to the Mercedes
SUV and drive it back to Ilavista.
I will use it as one of my killing machines against my enemies.
An SUV will cause a lot more damage than my B&W coupe.
After I have killed all of the sorority girls at Alpha Phi House, I will quickly get into
the SUV before the police arrive, assuming that they would arrive within three minutes.
I will then make my way to Del Playa, splattering as many of my enemies as I can with the SUV,
and shooting anyone I don't splatter.
I can only imagine how sweet it will be to ram the SUV into all those groups of popular
young people who have always witnessed, I've always witnessed, walking right in the middle
of the road as if they were better than anyone else.
They are in writhing pain, their bodies broken and dying after I splatter them.
They will fully realize their crimes.
Once I reach Del Playa Street, I will dump the bag of severed heads I have saved from
my previous victims, proclaiming to everyone how much I've made them all suffer.
Once they see all of their friends' heads rolling onto the street, everyone will fear
me as a powerful god that I am.
I will then start massacring everyone on Del Playa Street.
I will pull up next to a house party and fire bullets at everyone partying in their front
yard.
I will specifically target the good looking people and all of the couples.
After I have destroyed a house party, I will continue down Del Playa, destroying everything
in everyone.
When I see the first police car come to their rescue, I will drive away as fast as I can,
shooting and ramming anyone in my path until I find a suitable place to finally end my life.
To end my life, I will quickly swallow all of the Xanax and Vicodin pills I have left,
along with an ample amount of hard liquor.
Immediately after imbibing this mixture, I will shoot myself in the head with two of
my handguns simultaneously.
If the gunshots don't kill me, the deadly drug mixture eventually will.
I will not suffer being captured and sent to prison.
I must plan this very efficiently.
Everything can go wrong.
It needs to be perfect.
This is now my sole purpose on this world.
My plans will come to fruition and I mustn't let anyone stop me."
That was a lot.
Sorry.
There is so many things wrong with that whole quote.
I'll say.
The first thing being, how are you going to lure people into your fucking house when clearly,
according to you, no one will even knock you.
So wrong.
Second of all, I am not feared.
You said all women would be feared from what you're doing?
Nope.
Not me.
Sorry.
You missed one.
Also, how does he think he's going to get away with all of these things simultaneously
before the cops get there?
There is literally no way.
He could do all of that and then still have time to kill himself.
It's also part of the delusion, part of the fantasy.
I know it is.
I'm sorry.
I'm really thinking of it logistically.
Yeah, no.
Well, he's not.
Clearly.
I'm sorry.
He literally went from, what was me?
No one will talk to me to the biggest criminal mastermind, like eviscerating bodies and
decapitating people.
There's no fucking way he would actually do that.
You know where there's a lot of decapitation?
Game of Thrones.
Yeah, exactly.
Obviously, it's a delusion.
He clearly doesn't realize the amount of strength, mental strength, and physical strength that
takes.
There's no way.
For like, skin bodies and boil them and all this stuff.
Yeah, and in fact, he thinks someone's still going to be alive after he skins them.
The whole holy?
Wrong.
Yeah.
Okay, sorry.
Again, it's just a bunch of spewed out bullshit.
It's no wonder the manifesto is fucking long as shit.
It's very long.
Elliot then began to record YouTube videos and upload them.
These videos were him explaining his hurt feelings towards men and women and how he
was to enact revenge on them.
Essentially he was saying that something big was to come.
So after these were uploaded a few days before the crime was to take place, it was like the
24th or something, so he uploaded these like a few days before he was supposed to commit
this crime.
Great, no one said anything.
Elliot began to get sick, and he had decided to postpone his date until May 24th.
About a week after the uploads, Elliot answered his front door and was surprised that seven
police officers were knocking on the door.
Oh, weird.
His own mother had seen the videos and had asked for a welfare check on Elliot.
After talking for some time, the police left.
They never once checked his room.
Had they, they would have found manifestos, journals, writings of all various kinds, guns,
knives, ammunition, a bunch of shit.
Yeah, everything that he would potentially use.
But they didn't.
Of course not.
On the evening of May 23rd, 2014, okay, now he's no longer Elliot, he's Roger, okay?
Elliot, Roger, okay?
He's Roger.
Roger began his crimes.
He killed James Hong first, then after some time his second roommate, David Wang.
A friend of the two arrived sometimes later, his name was George Chen.
Roger would end up stabbing George 94 times.
I forgot about that.
94 times.
It is unclear how far apart the men were killed from the last one, but what we do know is
that it appeared that Roger had tried to clean up after each crime so that each victim would
not be suspicious whenever they would arrive home or arrive to the apartment.
So he was essentially trying to enact that first part of his plan, where he would try
to kill as many people as possible coming into the apartment.
By 8pm that night on the 23rd, Roger was seen at a local Starbucks where he ordered his
usual latte.
This is after killing three people.
Yeah, just casual.
Around 8.30pm, witnesses saw him sitting in his car on his laptop.
His mom had essentially replaced the one that he had destroyed previously, by the way.
Like he was like, oh, I don't know what happened to my computer, just stopped working.
What happened to it again?
He destroyed it when he was drunk.
Oh, yeah.
I think he actually spilled something on it, but either way it was in this fit of rage
he was having.
By 9.17pm, Roger uploaded his last YouTube video titled Retribution.
And at 9.18, he sent out his manifesto email to multiple people, including Dr. Sophie.
Dang.
Dr. Sophie saw the email and immediately phoned Lee Chen and Peter saying that Roger was in
immediate danger and they needed to head to Santa Barbara.
Oh my god, I didn't know about that.
That's so scary.
Imagine getting that email, imagine getting that phone call.
Yeah.
And apparently he did also send it to his parents as well.
I think some old high school friends, I think maybe even Maddie, James, Philip.
The two parents would each call police and both travel separately to Santa Barbara from
Los Angeles.
Roger with his black BMW packed full of supplies headed down to the Alpha Phi Sorority House.
Roger began banging on the front door, but the knocks were so loud and aggressive that
the occupants inside knew that something wasn't right so they did not answer the door.
Yeah, what the fuck?
Yeah.
We need to blow your cover.
I mean, good thing he did.
No.
Yeah.
Well, good on those girls too for being really smart.
Yeah.
So no one answered the door that night and this only of course fueled Roger's rage.
He saw a few girls from another sorority outside near the Alpha Phi House.
He began firing, striking Catherine Cooper 22 and Veronica Weiss 19.
An additional young woman was hit, Bianca de Coq, but she would survive her wounds unlike
Catherine and Veronica.
Roger sped off in his BMW, trying to look for his next target.
He took aim at a coffee shop, but thankfully it was unoccupied at the time.
So now it's like screw the plan, anybody that I see.
Anybody I see.
Yeah.
He continued driving until he got to the Ivy Deli, getting out of his car and opening fire
at the store.
Opening fire?
Opening fire.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Does it?
Like I opened fire.
Yeah, he opened fire.
He was shooting indiscriminately until he caught Christopher Martinez with a single
shot.
He began to take aim and he killed the man as he tried to enter the doorway of the Deli.
Roger fled the scene, shooting out his window at unsuspecting pedestrians.
Roger saw bicyclist Jen Fu traveling down the opposite direction of himself and chose
to swerve into oncoming traffic and hit the cyclist head on.
But the bus was in his car?
Yeah, with his vehicle.
Jen Fu miraculously would only suffer minor injuries from this.
Dude, these poor fucking people are just going about their nights.
That one guy just wanted a sandwich.
This lady's just on a bike ride.
Yeah, absolutely.
Or it was a guy.
I said that one guy.
Jen Fu, you said this lady was just on a bike ride.
Jen?
J-E-N.
J-I-N.
Oh, I was like, did you not say Jen?
This person was on a bike.
This man.
He was a man.
Damn.
Roger would continue to shoot randomly at pedestrians as well as swerving into in an
effort to run people over.
Roger shot at a pizza place, enjoying Aaron Zaglin and Bailey Maples, who were sitting
inside the pizza place.
Once on, bear with me, El Encabarero's Drive.
Roger shot and wounded Megan Carlotto, Serena Schwartz, and Deputy Marquise, who was also
returning fire at the time.
Deputy would return fire.
Because he was just going down there.
I mean, you can hear it, because this is all within blocks of each other.
He's just driving up.
Multiple people are calling.
Like, he's right here.
Oh, I'm sure.
He's right here.
Unfortunately, this did not stop Roger as he was not struck by any of the deputies of
gunfire.
On Del Playa Drive, Roger struck two young men walking on the sidewalk with his car, Patrick
Eger 19, and Nick, I think it's Past Chuk?
Past Chuk?
Past Chuk.
Nick Past Chuk, he was also 19.
Turning on to Kamino Del Ser, he was 19 at the time.
They would both survive, my bad.
Turning on to Kamino Del Ser, Christopher Hoang would be shot three times and survive
this attack.
Damn.
Sabado Tarde is where Roger would strike Victor Garcia with his car.
Trying to run over Aaron, I think it's Sengupta?
He would strike Mitchell Labeersky, strike Elliot Guy, shoot Matthew Smith three times,
shoot Anthony, I think it's Cherchane, I'm gonna keep saying I think, Anthony Cherchane
four times, attempt to shoot Alexander Cardane and have a shootout with at least four police
officers when circling back on Del Playa Drive.
Damn.
So when he circled back on Del Playa, this is where Roger would essentially be struck
in the hip by gunfire.
He would attempt to take the life of 21-year-old Keith Cheung by striking him with his vehicle
in an effort to pin the man between his vehicle and a parked car.
Oh my gosh, ow.
Keith would survive.
However, Roger's reign of terror would come to an end.
After striking the parked car, the BMW was no longer operable, and there in this car
that his mother brought him, Elliot Roger would take his own life by self-inflicted gunshot
wound to the head.
He was pronounced dead at 9.35 just 17 minutes after he sent the email.
Holy shit.
All that in 17 minutes.
Damn.
And it's manifested what sounded like it was gonna take hours for his whole plan to
come to fruition.
Well, I think it would have because he was gonna sneak into the Alpha Phi sorority by
like nine and then he was gonna like slaughter them all.
But he also had gauged it to be only three minutes that he would commit this crime because
he said the cops would be there in three minutes and then he would take off.
Yeah, but he sent the email after he killed his two roommates and the third guy, correct?
Yeah.
Okay, so after that, he sent the email.
Right.
Okay.
At 9.18.
But his original plan, he wanted to be at the sorority house, but he thought he was probably
gonna be there for at least an extra few minutes.
Yeah, yeah.
It wasn't gonna be like an hour long.
Damn.
That's wild.
So as Peter and Lee Chen approached their son's apartment, there were receiving news
reports of an active shooter in the Santa Barbara area, a shooter driving a black BMW.
Oh no.
Peter had been frantically calling his son's phone the entire trip with no answer.
Police advised the parents that the ID that had been found in the pocket of the perpetrator
and of course it matched their son's ID.
They learned that their son's crime and of what he had done and of his death.
The bodies of Wang, Chen and Hong would not be found until the following day as investigators
were gonna go to his apartment to collect evidence, so they had no idea.
Oh my gosh, that's so awful.
Through more investigating, it was determined that Elliot Roger did in fact have a diagnosis
that maybe some of our listeners might not expect.
Elliot Roger in 2007 had been diagnosed with pervasive developmental disorder, which is
now under the autism spectrum disorder blanket that we know now today.
And probably why he got prescribed the medication that he did, that he refused to take.
Because it was for irritability with autism spectrum disorder.
Then in 2007, the signs and symptoms of PDD or atypical autism criteria, much like aspirators
at the time, were these signs or symptoms.
Communication difficulties, i.e. using and understanding language.
Difficulty with social behavior.
Uneven skill development, strengths in some areas while having delays in others.
Unusual play with toys or other objects.
Relative body movement or behavior patterns.
Preoccupation with fantasies that interfere and that are not normal to have at a certain
age depending on social, cultural, and religious norms.
Unconventional perception of the world.
And maladaptive daydreaming, excessive daydreaming interfering with daily life.
So it is still technically part of the ICD-10, which is more medical usage instead of psychiatric,
like the DSM-5 is.
But this used to be in the DSM-4.
It's just now under autism spectrum.
So earlier in the episode, I did mention that my thoughts about his sexuality and maybe
what was going on there.
I was just gonna say really quick, sorry before you get into that on the last note.
Sounds like Dr. Sophie knew what the fuck he was talking about as he usually does.
That's all I wanted to say.
Dr. Sophie, if you're listening, we love you.
And he's Bay.
He's Bay.
So again, earlier in the episode, I did mention my thoughts about his sexuality a little bit.
And I think that I don't think he really knew what it meant to have a sexuality.
I think that his potential autism diagnosis allowed him to fixate on women, much like
some people on the autism spectrum disorder kind of category that they usually fixate
on one thing or another.
You know, I do know kettos that fixate on dinosaurs or cars or colors or there's that
one kid on TikTok that does the fonts.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, I love that kid.
So again, I think that his fixation was just women.
And a lot of it when he talks about women is not, he just, all he can say over and over
and over again is I want a tall blonde.
I want a tall blonde.
I want a beautiful tall blonde.
Not I want somebody who cares about me.
I want somebody who can listen to me or understand me.
I want, you know, things that you would normally say that you would want in a partner.
That didn't matter to him.
And I think it's because he looked at women as an object.
Yeah, as an object.
Like they are all in one like category.
They're all one entity, if that makes sense.
And I think that's why, like I said, I think it has to do with a potential autism diagnosis.
I agree.
Yeah, completely.
And honestly, like it almost sounded like he may be asexual at the beginning.
Yeah.
Now that you explained it like that, it makes a little bit more sense to me.
Yeah.
I agree.
I knew what a what sexuality really was.
Yeah, I agree.
I don't.
Yeah, I think it.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Interesting stuff.
Wow.
So the last little bit in his manifesto, if anybody's interested.
Yeah, of course, that's why they're listening this far.
Quote, all I ever wanted was to love women and in turn to be loved by them back.
Their behavior towards me has only earned my hatred and rightfully so.
I am the true victim in all of this.
I am the good guy.
He struck me at first by condemning me to experience so much suffering.
I didn't ask for this.
I didn't want this.
I didn't start this war.
I wasn't the one who struck first, but I will finish by striking back.
I will punish everyone and it will be beautiful.
Finally, at long last, I can show the world my true worth.
End quote.
Damn.
Right?
That's heavy.
It's real heavy.
He poured his entire soul into making this manifesto and I had not really touched on
it in the first episode, but his writings were so, it was so repetitive.
It was so repetitive that many times, I would be very interested to see if anybody's done
the research to see how many times he repeated himself.
And it just shows the, I feel like mania at some points.
I feel like he's also struggling to understand it himself and he thinks that he says it aloud
as many times as he possibly can.
Then it'll just click for him.
It's very interesting and it's definitely high school level too.
You can tell in the writing.
He portrayed himself as such a, you know, this intelligent, you watch videos of this
guy and to me there's no, he's like an anime villain.
That's the best way I can describe it.
He looks like an anime villain.
He's like, once I get my revenge on you, kind of speech pattern.
Well, he does the whole sex with a girl, that kind of thing.
Sex.
Yeah.
Like the anime kind of portray people when people portray it in real life.
Right.
And it's very interesting if his nose started bleeding.
I was gonna say, I do think a lot of it is lack of a social foundation or lack of social
cues, social understanding.
And I think that's where a lot of it comes from.
He takes everything so personally because he doesn't get that people have their own
little clicks or understanding of each other or whatever.
If they're laughing next to him, he automatically takes it personally and thinks it's about
him when one of them might have just farted or something and that's why they're laughing.
Right.
Or whatever.
It could be something completely innocent and the fact that he immediately takes offense
to it, like it has to do with him.
And I was saying all episode, like he's so narcissistic.
It's not all about you, blah, blah, but in his mind, it probably was all about him because
he didn't get the social construct of like other people's relationships.
Yeah.
He didn't have that with anybody else and he didn't understand it with other people,
especially relationships, like boy and girl or whoever, couple relationships.
And that's probably what made him so angry is that he didn't understand how to do that
for himself.
And we can talk shit like we said all day.
We can talk shit about, well, why don't you just go fuck and do it?
He didn't know how.
He didn't know.
He was never taught.
He never felt like it was something that, I don't know, I also think about Peter too
because Peter did go on ABC or Dateline or whatever it was and talk about Elliot and
that he had always just said he was just a different child.
He was just different.
And it's like the way that Peter speaks about Elliot is almost like, yeah, he's different,
but there's nothing wrong with him.
But it wasn't like in a way that's a father being supportive of a son.
It's like we have the perfect family and he was perfect.
And it's that mentality.
Almost like the same as Nendas.
Yeah, exactly.
And he completely ignores that there might be something going on and that needs a little
bit more attention.
Exactly.
And it's like, no, I mean, well, he has everything laid at his feet and it just doesn't make
any sense to me that.
Yeah.
Why would there be something wrong?
I've done everything for him.
He's never wanted for anything.
But that's a mindset and that's another reason why we're doing this podcast is to educate
people on, yeah, you could have everything that you need physically, but sometimes people
will need a little bit of extra help when it comes to their mental health.
And I don't know if when he stopped taking the medication, he just stopped taking it
when he was in Santa Barbara and he was telling his parents that he was taking the medication.
The one that Dr. Sophie prescribed?
Yeah.
I was under the understanding that he never took it at all.
Oh, I don't know.
I think he, I don't know.
I don't remember.
I think he, I don't know.
What I thought is that he never even took it.
I thought he was doing it for a little bit and then he just decided to stop.
I don't know.
Either way.
If their parents knew that their child should be prescribed this, especially from somebody
like Dr. Sophie, somebody who's famous, a world famous Beverly Hills psychiatrist and
helps many people and he would think they would take his advice.
Oh, it's really unfortunate.
It is.
It's a long story.
Thank you guys so much for listening.
I know it's kind of harsh to listen to that.
And again, we did talk about throughout the whole episode that he sounds so narcissistic
and we're kind of putting that out there.
But I do feel like a lot of this narcissism didn't come from, I don't know where, I don't
know.
I think it's just, he was telling himself things to make himself feel better about all
of this disconnect he was having with humans.
And why?
Why must that be a thing?
Well, it must be a thing because I'm a God.
Because that would make no sense.
Because I'm the only person that feels like this.
And I haven't met a single other person that feels like this.
I must be a God.
Or people are specifically, how can they, I'm going to tell myself that I'm beautiful
because if I tell myself that I'm beautiful, maybe I'll feel that way about myself.
And he was just way more vocal about it.
And I don't know if it was necessarily narcissism.
I think that it was just a coping mechanism in a way.
Absolutely.
And just to pepper in something else as well, I know it's super easy to kind of do what
I was guilty of doing, especially in the beginning of this part two, kind of making
some like off-putting comments like, ah, like he's, you know, acted like this way.
Oh, okay.
Blah, blah, you know, whatever.
And that's just my reaction to the story.
Is he going to make light?
Exactly.
Make light.
What's not so easy is having conversations like we're having right now where we really
kind of talk about empathy and things like that.
And I actually wanted to just pepper in a quote from Maya Angelou.
She says, do what you can until you know better than do better.
Yeah.
And I really like that.
So that's what I, like I said earlier, we're just really wanting to educate what it means
to be different, like his dad said, to be, have a different mindset.
And you know, a lot of people in this story, not that they're at fault, but even like that
friend that kind of poked fun at Elliot for being a virgin, like, let's try not to do
that because you never know what someone's going through internally, like what demons
are battling with their inner monologue or their inner self.
Yeah.
And it's really unfortunate, but.
Yeah, it was definitely interesting to read like his story in general.
And if anybody wants to go out there and read it, you definitely can.
But I think one of the only people that Elliot really, really cared for was his friend James.
And it's because they did talk about, you know, not just video games, stuff like that,
that they were always playing video games together, but that James and him had lengthy
conversations about sex and being with girls or not being with girls and what that meant
for them.
And I feel like James was probably one of the only people that Elliot felt really connected
to.
So it was kind of really sad to hear that they kind of had a falling out in the last
year that they were friends.
But yeah, I hope he's doing well.
Damn.
Sound like Elliot was a really good friend to him or he was a really good friend to
Elliot.
Well, thanks for bringing that story.
That is wild.
And that was a true two-parter.
That was a true two-parter.
It wasn't like 30 minutes and then 30 minutes.
Yeah, true two-parter.
Thank you guys for sticking with us.
And we hope that you learned a lot during these last two episodes.
Thanks for waiting a week with me.
Midriff was.
We did learn what a midriff is.
Oh my gosh.
It sounds like a riff, like a riff off.
Yeah, a midriff.
Like a midriff.
Well, we will see you guys, I guess, next week with another mental breakdown.
Now I think since you did a two-parter, now it'll be not one of us doing two things each
week.
It'll be like one of us doing a mental breakdown or the other one doing a case in the same week
rather than us doing both.
Although I do have the next mental breakdown though, so it is almost like, you know what
I mean?
Yeah, but it's for next week.
But for next week.
Yeah, exactly.
That I have my next case next Thursday.
I have a doozy of a case.
If you want to hear a very traumatic story about a very traumatic childhood, I don't
know if you want to hear that.
I don't know if I want to.
But that's what my case entails next week.
So just to give everyone a little hinty hint.
Get your tickets for the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival that is coming up literally
before we know it in Austin, Texas in August.
If you're from overseas from us, please email us or message us on Instagram.
I still want to pen pal y'all.
We still haven't heard from South Dakota, right?
Yeah, I actually looked and we have at least one download from Sioux Falls.
So I'm not sure if that was one of our listeners that commented and said that they're from
South Dakota because that person has messaged us in the past and we've talked to her.
So I don't know if it was her or if it was someone new.
New from Sioux Falls.
But thank you guys for downloading.
And yeah, just looking at the, dude, the map is wild and out.
We are Soups Pop in, of course, America, but the UK loves us, dude.
I'm excited.
We haven't heard from anybody from the UK.
We haven't.
If you're from the UK, there's just...
Well, other than...
Lina, yeah.
Oh, yes, of course.
If you're from the UK or if you're from Australia.
Australia.
Or New Zealand.
That would be awesome.
I want New Zealand.
I want New Zealand so bad.
All right.
I think that's all we got.
You guys are probably tired of hearing our voices.
I'm tired of hearing my own.
Or not because if you're a Soups Loyal List, then this is like your 90th episode of listening
to us.
It's true.
And if this is getting to you after it's already airing and you're just catching up,
just click the next one.
There you go.
Yeah.
Wait, the next one.
Yeah.
I'm like, if you're already listening...
If this is from the past.
Oh.
I mean, this is from the past to the future.
Did this age well?
If you're from the future, let us know.
If you're from the future, click on the next one.
It's about time.
That's what I meant.
All right.
We love you guys.
All right.
Love you.
Bye.
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