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Hello! Hello! Welcome back to another episode of diagnosing a killer. The mental breakdown.

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The mentee breakie. Trying new ones out of that as well. Yeah. Mental breakdown.

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Oh no. Oh! You should breathe into it.

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Hello everybody! My name is Kenna. I'm Koelle. And welcome! If this is your first time listening

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to us, welcome! I feel like we don't say that enough. And you know, sometimes when I start a

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new podcast, I like to listen to the most recent episodes to see if it's like something that I'm

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willing to put into the time and effort for the long run, right? So I'll listen to the most recent,

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and then if I like them, I'll go back to the beginning and binge from there. So hello and

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welcome if this is your first time. Louie said that the first episode he listened to, the first like

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10 minutes was me talking about how I was on my period. And I was like, wow, how embarrassing if

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that's like the first time you're listening. Yep. I just spit a little, sorry. It is what it is. We

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talk about real, real world things. You got it. It's real world. It's real world. That's what I was

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thinking. Seven strangers set to live in a house. True story. Yeah. Yeah. So we talk about real world

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here. We talk about some real personal serious mental illness shit. And hopefully one day,

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well, one day, hopefully one day, we won't have to talk about this shit anymore because it'll be

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all fixed and there'll be no problems anymore. Probably won't happen in our lifetime though.

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Probably not. We can hope. In the meantime, while we are waiting for all the world's problems to be

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solved, you can check us out at diagnosingkiller.com. You can check us out on any social media platform

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at diagnosing a killer, except for Twitter, which is at killer diagnosis, email us, all that good

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stuff. Yeah. Speaking of emails. Live laugh lurk. Yeah. Speaking of emails, I do have one that I'm

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going to read and it is going to be part of this minty breaky today. However, before we get started,

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I also do just want to also plug the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival that is happening

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in August and we are going to be hosts there. They actually were very nice and posted about us the

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other day. So if you've followed them on Instagram, we also shared it and tagged with them. And yeah,

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so you can read a little bit more about us or you can just read our synopsis because it's essentially

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the same thing. But I like what they said about us. It was really nice and I like that they're

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individualizing every podcast. Like they're giving everyone a platform and a name before it even starts

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so people can start to listen now before they start to meet people. Yeah. I'm really excited

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about it. It's going to be a really great opportunity to connect with some other podcasts as well.

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Yes. So excited. Okay. Are you ready to get into this mental breakdown? I am excited. Woohoo!

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This is a week of suggestions because my mental breakdown today was suggested by a listener

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and my case this week is also suggested by a listener. I listened and we shall receive.

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We got an email from one Stephanie Coleman. Okay. That's Kul, K-U-H-L, not Coleman. Okay.

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Stephanie says, Hi, I am a licensed mental health counselor in Florida and I recently listened to

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the episode on Grant and motto. I'm getting you all in the sex and love addiction thing with all

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the various wrinkles in the DSM additions. But really, this sounds like delusional disorder

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first and foremost. So if anyone hasn't listened to that episode, Koel and I kind of maybe

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speculated that he might be struggling or was struggling with sex and love addiction,

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but we weren't sure because he was never diagnosed. Right. She goes on, I don't think he's the only

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one either. I think it would be interesting to look at delusional disorder in many of your cases.

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Maybe even a whole episode about the condition. What do you think? Well, I think that we're

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friggin doing it. I think I also love the fact that you said, What do you think instead of just

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telling us all this info and then, you know, just not expecting your response. So I love that.

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Thanks for your email, Stephanie. Absolutely. I did reach it back out and I asked her if she was

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okay with us sharing this email and her name and she said, Yes, I would be honored. It's one of the

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least research disorders and hard to treat, but likely more pervasive than we realized.

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Interesting. Thank you for that email. That was very nice and it enticed us to research it or me

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because I didn't even know what I was doing. So we are going to be talking about delusional

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disorder. We haven't done that one just yet. And honestly, I couldn't really find any infamous cases

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or any like celebrity status cases, if you will, that someone was diagnosed with this and then

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committed a crime. Again, probably because it doesn't get diagnosed as often and it's kind of hard

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to diagnose as well. Yeah. A lot of the times we also talk about core morbidities with diagnoses and

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most of the time, if someone is struggling with this, it's probably outshined by a personality

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disorder. Yeah. Or you know, that's the most important. Or a most important. Or a most

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schizophrenia spectrum. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, we are going to be talking about delusional

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disorder and we will just get right on into it. This is all from the DSM-5. Delusional disorder

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is a type of mental health condition where a person cannot tell what's real from what's imagined.

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There are many different types of delusional disorder, including persecutory, which I'm trying

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not to say charcuterie, persecutory, jealous and grandiose type. So those are the three. It is

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treatable with psychotherapy and medication. We will get into that in just a second. The main

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symptoms is the presence of one or more delusions, hence the name delusional disorder. But it is also

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under the branch of psychotic disorders. Okay. So schizophrenia spectrum, other psychotic disorders

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this would also fall under there. So what is a delusion? A delusion is an unshakable belief

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in something that is untrue. The belief isn't a part of the person's culture or subculture,

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and almost everyone else knows this belief to be false. Okay. So it's not, again, we talked about it

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with, I'm not exactly sure what we talked about when the last one, but we talked about something

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like a religious thing, like believing in God would not be, oh it was the folly of do. Believing

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in God would not be a delusion because it's a commonly thought thing in the Christian faith.

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Yeah. Or other faiths. So it's something that almost everyone around this person believes to be

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false. People with delusional disorder often experience non-bizarre delusions. So non-bizarre

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delusions involve situations that could possibly occur in real life, such as being followed,

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deceived, or loved from a distance. Okay. Could happen, probably not going to happen.

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Remember what I was telling you about being, like I have a rational fear of someone shooting me

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like while I'm driving? Yeah, when we have that whole conversation, it could happen. Probably not

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going to happen. It's a delusion. Now these delusions usually involve the misinterpretation

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of perceptions or experiences. In reality, these situations are either untrue or highly exaggerated.

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Have you ever had like super high paranoia like that before? Oh, absolutely. That's why I don't

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do drugs anymore. Seriously? Not anymore. I wasn't like a drug user, but like I just smoked my fair

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share of pot. That's why I don't do that anymore. Same. I'll convince myself. Me too. Like I'll just

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start spiraling and I'm like, oh my god, they're going to kill me. They're going to kill me. I can do

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that. They're going to kill me. They can do that. Yeah, I've done it sober too. It's terrifying.

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It is terrifying. People with delusional disorder often continue to socialize and function well,

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which I thought was very interesting, apart from the subject of their delusion, which is why we see

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so many cases of people saying, I never thought that they could do something like that. Oh my god,

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I never saw them as that person because generally they function and socialize very well. It's just

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the delusion that can take over. Yeah. Generally they don't behave in an odd or unusual manner.

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This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders who might also have delusions as a symptom.

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I thought that was interesting as well. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder

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might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted. Okay. So like I

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said earlier, there are different types of delusions of disorder. I mentioned three, but I think

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there's actually about six. These are determined based on the main theme of the delusions that the

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person experiences. So I'm just going to kind of go through them one by one. The first one is

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erotomaniac, which sounds like sexual. So people with disbelief of delusional disorder believe that

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another person, often somewhat important or famous, is in love with them. Okay. Like we've seen this

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before. Taylor Swift or Tiffany or yeah. We've had someone that we talked about recently in an

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episode, right? That had maybe, they thought that or you know what? It was almost like Mark Chapman,

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but like the opposite. Like he doesn't believe that John Lennon's in love with them. He just like

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believes that John Lennon, you know, is this giant problem. Yeah, exactly. That he can affect the

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world. Yeah, exactly. People that are experiencing this type of delusion may also attempt to contact

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the person of the delusion and engage in stalking behavior. So it kind of is like Mark David Chapman.

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Yeah. Now the next one is grandiose. We've heard this word a lot grandiose sense of self.

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People with this type of delusion with disorder, excuse me, have an overinflated sense of self-worth.

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Self-worth. Self-worth. Self-worth power, knowledge, or identity. They may believe they have a great

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talent or have made an important discovery. Like we've seen that a lot. Timothy McFay was kind of

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that way. You know, he thought that his knowledge and well, I guess Tia and Do would be that as well.

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Yeah. A lot of people we've talked about, which Stephanie's right on the money here. Like that's

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a lot of people we've talked about already. Just that one type. Right. So the next one I mentioned

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earlier is jealous. People with this type of delusion disorder believe that their spouse or

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sexual partner has been unfaithful without having any concrete evidence. So they just make up things.

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Oh, who was it? It was Catherine Knight. Yeah. Catherine Knight. I was just about to say that.

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She killed the dog. It was like, this is supposed to happen if you cheat on me. It's like, he didn't do anything.

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Yeah. God is terrible. Then we move on to charcuterie, persecutory. People with this type

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of delusional disorder believe someone or something is mistreating, spying on or attempting to harm them

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or someone close to them. See, that sounds like a schizophrenia spectrum disorder. Yes. The way

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that you would normally, that would manifest. I agree. Yes. People with this type of delusional

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disorder may make repeated complaints to legal authorities. So I mean, there's someone outside,

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even so like maybe aliens or something like that. Something that not a lot of people think is

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possible or feasible. There's an alien outside my house or whatever. It can be anything like that.

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I saw a video once of an older man. I don't know if it was necessary. Well, it might be

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delusional disorder or I think he also had sundowns as well. Which sundowns is, I'm sure you're

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aware, it's kind of like a nighttime dementia. Okay. So sundown or syndrome, meaning like once the

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sun goes down, you become... You're like a psychosis? Not necessarily. It usually happens in older

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people. It's kind of like many all, I wouldn't say many Alzheimer's or many dementia, but essentially

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that's... Like there's circadian rhythms all off and they don't know what time it is. Yeah.

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Because it's at night and usually during the day you can stay pretty busy. So this video has this

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older man and he calls 911 and he's called 911 multiple times before saying that there's people

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trying to break into his home and he brandishes a gun and he shoots up police officers because he

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doesn't know what's going on or who they are thinking that somebody's breaking into his house.

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And he had even said he was being attacked by someone and there was nobody that had broken

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into the house. He was just having a delusion of some kind and it's really scary and thankfully

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they didn't shoot back at him. They were, you know, they'd... Realized? Yeah, he realized.

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That's still scary. Anyways, that's what that reminded me of when you have this feeling like

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you're being watched or attacked or and it makes sense that they would call 911 often for help

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because they think that they're being attacked or watched or stopped.

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Craft Beer Club today. And you're totally right about the Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorder too.

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Like these sound very similar to me, especially this branch of delusional disorder. It sounds like

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maybe, you know, I've seen an episode of Grey's Anatomy where there was a Schizophrenic pageant

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and he was thinking that aliens were going to come and steal like his mom or they had replaced

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his mom or something like that. That's a delusion, but he was experiencing the delusion from

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Schizophrenia Spectrum, not from delusional disorder. So I imagine that it can be hard,

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like Stephanie said, to differentiate between the two, whichever one outshines the other, I guess.

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But again, more so often, Schizophrenia Spectrum is diagnosed and that's why we see that so often

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in these cases because it's probably the, it's just outweighing. Like it's like the most forward

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presenting, like we say, disorder that this person has. But isn't that interesting? Like I was talking

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about dementia and you're talking about Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorder, but that they have the same

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signs and, you know, signs. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's why this was saying that, you know,

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similar to a personality, excuse me, similar to a psychotic disorder, a delusion is a symptom of

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a psychotic disorder. It's not the same thing as delusional disorder. It's like a completely

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different thing, right? So it's weird when you get down to details because it's really something

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so small that can differentiate what you're diagnosed with. And it's hard because you don't

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see all of these things at once when you're trying to diagnose someone or you usually don't, right?

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It's my two cents. It's our two cents. Our two cents. Our four cents. And the last type, I'm

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sorry, not last type, the second to last type is somatic. So people with this type of delusional

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disorder believe that they have a physical issue or medical problem such as a parasite or like a

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bad odor. Like they can always smell a bad odor. They have like, you know, a chronic, I don't know,

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something going on internally. Okay. So it almost makes me think of munch-hazam. However, they don't

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take steps to like treat an illness. And it's not like hypochondria where they think they're sick

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and they like make it a big deal, but it's like an internal belief. Yeah. Okay. And lastly, the

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other one is called mixed. It's people with this type of delusional disorder have two or more of

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the ones that we've already spoken about. So I know we've kind of already talked about it, but

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just the difference between schizophrenia spectrum and delusional disorder. So schizophrenia

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spectrum disorder would include behaviors such as organized, disorganized, excuse me, speech or

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behavior, negative symptoms, which is like a decrease in emotions or a person's facial expressions,

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not necessarily negative, like bad, but negative, like taking away. And delusional disorder is

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different from schizophrenia because there aren't any other psychotic symptoms other than delusions.

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Oh, okay. So that's kind of making it sense. And then again, this is a DSM-5 in addition.

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In contrast to schizophrenia, delusional disorder is relatively rare and daily functioning is not

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as impaired as it is with people that have schizophrenia spectrum disorder. So who does

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delusional disorder affect? Delusional disorder, it's hard to say it like delusional disorder.

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It most often occurs in middle to late life with the average age of onset being 40 years old,

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right? Wow. That is such a late onset. That is. In my opinion for a mental disorder,

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especially one like this. 40. Which explains why- Yeah, I've got five more years than me.

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We have a lot of people that we talk about though that like, not only are they, you know,

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starting off their criminal record early on, but it lasts if, right, they don't get caught. And to

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old age, this might be why. Yeah. You know, especially like golden state. I was just about to

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say golden state. Yeah. So the persecutory and jealous types of delusional disorder are more

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common in people assigned male at birth. And the erotomaniac type is more common in people assigned

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female at birth. People who tend to be socially isolated are more likely to develop delusional

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disorder. We talked about that in the Folly Adu episode. So these populations include

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people that immigrate that have language barriers, people who are deaf, people who are

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visually impaired, people who are elderly. And I think that's it actually. I was saying it like

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it was gonna be a long list. You had an habit of items. And we always like to talk about prevalence

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of certain disorders. So although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders again,

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such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself only affects approximately 0.05% of people

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of the adult population. That we know of that have been diagnosed. Exactly. And it's really hard

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to diagnose, which makes it even more rare on the prevalence. But it says it's 0.05 to 0.1%.

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So just in that little range. Yeah. Pretty wild. Interesting. And I think I have a couple more

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things if you have time. And that's a short middle break. So the most common type of delusional

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disorder is the persecutory type again, that people believe that others are to harm them,

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despite evidence to the contrary, lacking self-awareness that their delusions are problematic.

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People are unable to accept that their delusions are irrational or inaccurate,

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even if they recognize that other people would describe their delusions that way. So they're

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like, I know that you think I'm crazy, but this is real. Either way, even the bunch of things

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tell them otherwise. Yeah. They often engage in anger and violent behavior. If someone is

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experiencing persecutory, jealous or a rhodomaniac delusions. Early signs and symptoms of delusional

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disorder may include feelings of being exploited, preoccupation with a loyalty or trustworthy

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friends, excuse me, a tendency to read threatening meanings into benign remarks or events,

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persistently holding grudges, and a readiness to respond and react to perceived slights.

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So just like overall temperament is on guard all the time. Wow. I mean, who wouldn't though,

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if you felt like you were constantly being watched or attacked or persecuted or, you know,

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feeling jealousy or anger or whatever. I mean, yeah, it's completely understandable, honestly,

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especially if your brain is tricking you essentially into thinking that all of these things are real.

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How dare you try to tell me that I'm wrong and I'm being overdramatic or whatever. I'm scared

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and you're not taking me seriously. And we always say it where I always say it,

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like we're all the stars of our own movie. And so definitely when you feel like you're not being

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understood, that's really frustrating too. It's like you're speaking a different language almost.

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No, honestly. It's the same thing that I, the only thing that I can equate it to is like,

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I've talked about this before on the podcast, like when someone tells me I'm lying, when I know

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I'm telling the truth, that bothers me to nobody's fucking, to the no extent. I'm like, no, you're

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not listening to me. Like I am telling you the truth and it's so frustrating that you don't

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believe me. I feel like it's the same kind of thing, right? See, for me on the flip, it's like,

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I know you're fucking lying to me and why don't you just fucking admit it? Yeah, well, either way.

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So people with delusional disorder may also develop anxiety and or depression as a result

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of their delusions. Obviously, we just talked about that. It can be very frustrating. So what

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causes delusional disorder? Obviously, we don't really know the exact cause of delusional disorder,

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but researchers are looking at the role of various factors that may contribute to developing the

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condition. Okay. First one being genetic. We always talk about being predisposed to developing a

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certain mental illness. So the fact that delusional disorder is more common in people who have FIM

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members with delusional disorder or schizophrenia spectrum disorder suggests that there might be

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a genetic factor involved. Researchers believe that as with other mental disorders, a tendency to

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develop delusional disorder might be passed on from parents to their biological children.

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That brings us to biological factors. Researchers are studying how abnormalities of certain areas

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of your brain might be involved in the development of a delusional disorder. An imbalance of certain

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chemicals in your brain, neurotransmitters, have been linked to the formation of delusional symptoms.

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Hmm. So an imbalance of neurotransmitters. All these words are really big. You're doing great.

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Thank you. And lastly, environmental and psychological factors. So evidence suggests that

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delusional disorder can be triggered by stress. Alcohol use disorder and substance abuse disorder

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might also contribute to the condition. Hypersensitivity and ego defense mechanisms like reaction

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formation, projection and denial are some psychodynamic theories for the development of the

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disorder. Also, social isolation, envy, distrust, suspicion and low self-esteem are also some

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psychological factors that may lead to a person seeking an explanation for these feelings and

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thus forming a delusion. So like if you are overexposed to being cheated on in like every

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relationship you've ever been in, then you would probably just assume that every partner you're

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ever going to be with is like that. Exactly. I mean, it makes sense though. Like if you're,

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okay, every single time this happens, it's failed. So why should I believe otherwise? Right. And you

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know, you talk to someone that's been in a healthy relationship for 30 years and they're like,

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what, what do you mean? That's never possible. Yeah, that doesn't happen or whatever because it's not

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their experience. Yeah, exactly. And lastly, you almost made it one whole episode without going

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eugh. I don't know what's wrong with my voice. I get like so excited about things. I was telling

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Koelle off mic. I came home from work and I was like so hungry and I ate like this giant meal and

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I got a rush of endorphins because I just ate and I was so hungry and I came here. I'm sitting down.

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I'm all like fucking moving around all crazy. I'm like, do I sound like I'm talking really fast?

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And you're like, no, you look like you're talking really fast. I don't know if anyone else has noticed

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because I've definitely noticed when I listen back. But when I'm reading off script, I talk so much

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faster than what I'm actually reading my notes. Yeah, it's just coming from my brain.

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Yeah. The other night, me and Frankie and Kimmy were hanging out and Kimmy was going off about

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work and all I could think of was she just talks like a sister and she's a sister talking to her

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sister and but it's so fast. It's so fast. It's so fast. And it was just sweet to watch because

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Frankie's just like, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Like she can hear everything. You know, it's just like,

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like again, we said a second ago, like speaking another language. Yeah. So funny. I was talking

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really fast to someone I had just recently met the other day and I don't remember who it was,

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but they kind of like looked at me and they were like, they looked at me and they looked at like

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another friend that I was with and my friend was like, oh, I'm frequent in Ken. I'm frequent. I'm

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fluent in Ken. I like, what do you want to know? Like what did she say? I mumble and I talk super

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fast and I try not to, which is so funny because I have to fucking podcast. I probably shouldn't.

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But in real life, I mumble and I talk super fast. On the podcast, I'm very articulate and I talk so,

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I like have to like remind myself to slow down when I talk. Sorry if it ever gets away from me.

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But lastly, lastly, how is delusional disorder diagnosed? I'm going to try to do a 2020 special.

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No, not 2020. What is the one that does? Dateline? I don't know. Whoever's

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two more posts. Two more. Oh, yes. That pesky DNA.

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What did we say last night? Oh my God, I'm never going to get to this point. We were talking like

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last night about how whenever we were eating dinner and you said something like they left

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him out in the cold or something. Oh, it was we were listening to this music on the TV and mom

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was like, this kind of sounds like like scary music. And you were like, yeah. Yeah. She approached

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the door at 9pm. Yeah. It was like, it was like not L.A. Noir, but Noir style music. Yeah. It was

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like this weird, I don't even know. She came in from the back door. Yeah. Wearing a giant coat

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because it was cold outside. Yeah, exactly. Her coat dripping from the rain. Yeah. It just kept

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going on about that. Okay. So do you want to know how delusional disorder is diagnosed? Yes.

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So of course, one seeking a diagnosis of anything would see a healthcare professional,

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therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist. This diagnosis is only available when a person

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has one or more delusions for one month or more that cannot be explained by another condition.

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Okay. Psychosis, schizophrenia, spectrum disorder, things like that. It's a piece of plastic.

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Right next to the mic. So yeah, that's the last point I was trying to make and it took me the

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longest to say it. That is my mental breakdown. I like that. So delusional disorder is y'all,

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if you want to hear about any other disorder that we've mentioned during this episode,

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we likely have a mental breakdown on it. So go ahead and look back. If there is a disorder that

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you guys would like to know more about and you want us to do the deep dive and you like hearing

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our voices and you don't think I talk too fast, then send us an email or send us a direct message

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on Instagram and let us know what you guys want to hear. We definitely can always use some more

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ideas for mental breakdowns. Absolutely. And also, if you are subscribed to the Patreon, you also get

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first dibs on topics as well. Absolutely. And you also should be looking forward to our new bonus

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episode coming out on the 29th for Patreons only, tier 2 and 3. That's going to be raw, unedited,

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unfiltered, gory, no content free. All that good stuff. And of course, any of our Patreon members,

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any of our Patrons, get access to ad-free episodes all the time. Go ahead and give us a like, give us

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a review, send us a message, do what you do. I'm a poet and I didn't know it. And do you have anything

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else? No, I think that's it. Thanks for joining us for a short minty breaky and we'll see you guys

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on Thursday with another case. Yeah, love you. Bye. Love you, bye.

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