Hello! Hello. Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koelle. And I'm Kenna. And I'm
tired. And I'm
neurotic. And I'm excited to eat some
chalupas. We found the vegetarian refried beans by the way. The dried ones.
If you guys haven't tried the Santa Fe brand, they're dried refried beans and all you do is put them in a pot with water and like
it takes like 25 seconds. They're really good. They're so good. And they have the vegetarian ones too.
Yeah. And it's got all the seasoning in there too, right? Yeah.
It does have seasoning in it and honestly, you know, we like really heavily season our food.
So we kind of doctor it up a little bit, but it's really good.
Just pepper it in there if you will. I know. I just rubbed it aside if I like it. It was so loud.
I was just telling Koelle we need to make sure we're not moving around so much when we record because this
microphone catches everything. It does.
One of these days we're gonna have the setup where we have like the two microphones and it doesn't echo.
I don't know how people do that, but I'm gonna have to figure it out because that's like a normal way to podcast.
I think that weird that like weird ones. We are the weird ones that do just a single microphone.
Even if we do a DAK live, there's three people with one microphone. So it can get a little crowded,
but at least we all have the ability to be heard. It's true.
I think most of their microphones come with that little mesh thing that probably cuts down on sound.
Yeah. Well, it's really a spit guard. Yeah, exactly. And I tried to do that too. Like in the very beginning,
I think we tried to do that and it didn't work. Yeah.
So now we just settled on the one microphone, but it's nice and it works. I think it works.
And we've gotten a lot of compliments on our sound quality. It's true.
I guess it's doing the trick. The benefits of recording in a closet. Exactly.
Check out diagnosingitkiller.com. There you will find the links to merch,
resources, all those goodies. We have a new merch thingy that I haven't put out on Red Bubble just yet,
but by the time this comes out, I probably will. And it is the...
Sounds like a peach. She sounds like such a peach. She sounds like such a peach. It has the peach emoji on it.
Yeah, I think it's adorable and it's gonna come of course with like this
gradient
peachy yellow background for the sticker. And then I'm gonna of course do the
inverted so that you guys can put it on a black t-shirt or darker colored t-shirt if you want.
And then of course just regular black and white as well.
Yeah, absolutely. And then I actually came out with one too recently.
I don't know if you guys have seen it yet, but it's a giant engagement ring and in the center it says
dating with an ex and then a marriage.
The two would quickly marry. Yeah.
We could put the two would quickly marry on the sticker, but I feel like that wouldn't make sense on a shirt. Right.
Yeah. Yeah. So one's wearing that. They're like, what the fuck does that mean? The two would quickly marry.
The two would quickly marry. Oh, you just had to be there. It's an inside joke.
Had to be there. Yeah, you guys check out our merch.
I've actually been getting a lot of questions lately on like where you can buy merch.
So if you don't remember, you can find our merch link on
DiagnosingAKiller.com. Just click on merch. You can also search us on redbubble.com.
D-A-K-P-O-D is the name of our shop. Yeah.
But definitely suggest going through the website because it's way easier.
If you click on merch or if you click on any design, it'll take you right to the full website.
Sure. And if we don't have that on our link tree, then we will definitely add that redbubble link on there.
I'm not sure it's on there, but... Yeah, I know that the website link is on there, but I don't know about redbubble.
But yeah, definitely we'll add that so you guys can get all of the merch merch.
Check out us on all of our social media platforms at DiagnosingAKiller,
other than Twitter, which is at KillerDiagnosis, email us,
LiveLaughLurg. Yes, I want that on a shirt.
Mom was wearing her full body heave shirt and public today, you know.
It looked good. It did look good. She came home and I was like, oh, you're wearing this shirt.
And just lastly, before we do get started, because I know I'm really excited to hear about your case,
but I did just want to pepper this in here that we got a new Patreon that is Louis, and I was really excited to see that.
I think like this morning I was, I asked you, I was like, who's Louis?
That's Louis. I was like, oh shit, okay.
But yeah, thank you for your support.
He does have access to the Albert Fish episode as well, so I'm excited to hear his reviews on that one.
But yeah, I think that's all I got. Continue to send us emails and messages on Instagram and all that good stuff.
We like to hear from you guys. Again, we're still searching for that South Dakota.
Yeah, South Dakota. Where are you at?
Where are you at? I haven't checked actually. We might have.
The person that's from there listening is like, seriously, like.
All of South Dakota has emailed us. We just haven't checked yet.
Yes. If you're from Bermuda, because I know we got to download their messages,
I just want a pen pal so bad. I want like 40 pen pals.
Yeah. So just message us. I promise you'll never annoy me.
Send me a voice memo of you talking and we'll become best friends.
Ready? Yes.
Is everybody ready? Hang on to your butts.
Oh no.
We are going to be talking about a one Timothy McVeigh.
Ooh.
Do you know who this is? I know who that is.
Are you sure?
I don't, I don't, like, I always say that.
Like, I'm like, oh, I don't know the whole story and I couldn't tell you what he did, but I know the name for sure.
Okay.
I probably listened to a podcast episode about him.
You'll probably realize.
Okay.
Whether or not you've heard of him.
Oh God, is it like the Mark David Chapman thing where like the name sounds familiar and then I'm like,
by the way, John Lennon's just-
Is John Lennon dead?
Is it like this or that sort of situation?
Pretty much.
God, I just am really bad with pop culture.
Dead culture.
Serial killer culture.
Crime culture.
Content warning, this episode depicts scenes of war, PTSD, racist groups and ideology, terrorism,
domestic terrorism, including mass bombings.
If this episode isn't for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.
Remember, your mental health comes first and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Damn, another doozy of a content warning.
And sorry to say it, but my case next week also has a lot of similar content.
So sorry to throw two of these at y'all at the same time.
Okay.
Timothy James McVeigh was born April 23rd, 1968 to parents Noreen-
Noreen-
Norwegian?
Noreen.
Sorry, Noreen.
And William McVeigh in Lockport, New York.
I've never heard of Lockport.
How many are there?
Is it like the fancy version of Rockport?
Maybe.
Well, it sounds-
Lockport sounds worse than Rockport.
Yeah, Rockport's cool.
Pretty sure it's somewhere around Buffalo.
Okay.
The couple were of Irish immigrant descent and after they got married,
they would settle in Pendleton, New York.
Oh, this one's outside of Buffalo, my bad.
Okay.
I didn't know where Buffalo was anyways.
Buffalo, New York?
I mean, I know of it.
I just couldn't point it out of the map.
Just like you know of Timothy McVeigh,
but you probably couldn't point him out.
Exactly.
If we're getting the theme here.
William worked as a, I guess like an employee for a radiator plant.
And Noreen worked as a travel agent.
We're sure she worked for a travel agency.
William considered himself to be a Democrat
and often volunteered and donated to civic causes.
He seems like a stand-up dude, right?
Yeah.
Sure.
The community of Pendleton was considered to be very conservative
and it was an exceptionally white area at the time.
Very rural, a lot of like farmland and stuff like that.
The only thing I know about Pendleton is that they make whiskey there.
Do they really?
Pendleton whiskey.
Oh.
I've seen it before with my own eyes.
I've seen it.
I'll be said it too.
I've seen it.
Tim had an older sister named Patricia,
who was two years old when her little brother came along,
when Tim came along.
Okay.
Patricia.
Honey, can you give me down please?
I'm trying to be funny.
I'm going to be on the phone here.
Six years later, the couple would welcome their third child, Jennifer,
who Tim adored.
He was always the older protective brother and he doted on her like a little baby doll.
Aww.
Isn't that sweet?
Good.
Because he would have been six by the time she was born, you know?
Yeah, that's cute.
When Tim was just 10 years old,
his parents would go through a pretty rough divorce.
Noreen had become disenchanted with William as she claimed that he was,
quote, too domesticated for her.
Like he's not like wild enough?
Yeah.
Like she wants him to be like feral or what?
Yeah.
No, I'm sorry.
You're more like a house cat.
I'm looking for a fucking alley cat.
He was a Democrat.
You know what I mean?
And she was like, ew.
Ew.
You're not radical enough for me.
Damn, okay.
Noreen was used to going out to clubs and bars, sometimes coming home late at night.
And a friend of hers had said that, quote,
Bill's idea of a Friday night was to have pizza, watch a ball game,
and water his plants, end quote.
That sounds like an amazing Friday night.
I know.
Also, I know plenty of Democrats that go out to bars.
So what's the fucking point about that?
He's just too domesticated.
Yeah.
He likes watching ball games.
Like it's like what?
So do I, motherfucker.
Yeah.
So I guess that's not Noreen's idea of like a good partner.
It kind of sounds like she just didn't really want to be married or like tied down or,
you know, settled.
Yeah, absolutely.
She would actually just pack up and leave the kids one day,
coming back a few days later to claim her children.
So those couple days that she was gone,
she was probably on a fucking bender, whether it was like drinking or with a guy.
Yeah, or something.
Damn savage.
The two girls would move in with their mother while Tim and William were left to the family home.
She doesn't want any guys.
She's like, fuck men, except for the ones that aren't married to me.
So Tim was always very sour about this situation because he had insisted that Noreen had said,
like, pick which parent you're going with.
Oh, hell no.
Yeah.
And keep in mind that would have made Jennifer four.
Four years old.
Like, do you want to go with mommy or you want to go with daddy?
Yeah, it's like they both squat down and see who she runs to, like those videos.
Come on, come on, come on, come on.
I don't fucking snack in my hand.
Maybe you should come to me.
Fucked up.
Oh, that is fucked up.
Like, we always say this, but don't, don't bring children into adult problems, right?
Like, I hate that.
So seemingly out of spite, Tim chose to live with his father because he couldn't stand the fact that his mother made the kids choose.
I mean, fuck, I don't blame him.
He's like, I don't want to live with you.
You're a bitch.
I don't want to go to the, I can't go to the bars with you.
I'd rather stay at home and eat pizza and watch baseball with dad.
And water the plants.
Yeah.
Fuck.
So this kind of worked for a little bit, but William worked very long hours at the radiator plant and would sometimes work over
hours, like overnight hours.
Oh.
So he was almost never home.
So he often left Tim to entertain himself.
Okay.
Tim would later say about this isolation, quote, I can't attribute anything I am now to any lack of my parents' presence in the home.
But I do say that I have very few memories of interactions with my parents, end quote.
Okay, that's like really fucking sad.
Just get the sad.
Mom was always out, like fucking drinking the night away.
Dad's involved in the TV.
Yeah.
Watering his plants.
I'm over here by my name.
So probably left my own devices starting fires, perhaps.
Maybe.
And damn, that really, I was going to say shits and it's really shitty.
And that really sucks at the same time.
That really sucks.
That's what I was going to say.
That really shit.
That really does suck though.
And honestly, like a whole lot of nurture right there.
Like I don't really see a whole lot of nature just yet.
No.
Like most kids, Tim became passionate about computers and the internet.
He loved to sit at the computer and would practice hacking.
And even at one point, he actually broke into a Department of Defense computer.
Like he was really good at it.
From his own?
From his own.
Yeah.
At what age was this?
He would have been, well, this is kind of smack.
This is kind of in his teens.
So like 13, 14, 15.
Okay, but still.
Still.
His brain isn't fully developed yet and he's hacking into fucking confidential,
like what's it called, compromised information?
Yeah.
Compromised.
No.
Just confidential information.
No, I'm thinking of something else.
I don't know.
Hello.
He excelled in computer class and he was super knowledgeable about programming.
This would yield to Tim many accolades in high school.
And of course, being a computer geek didn't help the already tall, scrawny looking kid.
Oh no.
Privilege, privilege is what I've learned.
Privilege.
Thank you.
It was privilege.
Privilege.
It was privilege information.
Go ahead.
Although his friends would say that Tim took this in stride, he was often like joked about
being very lanky and clumsy.
Aw.
Because he was just this wiry kid, right?
Like, gumby or something.
It's like me when I was younger.
I was really tall and thin and had long ass legs and I was called chicken legs and I was in middle school.
It's like you're a great dane and like you think you're a to-a-wa, but you're actually a great dane.
You know, you think you're a lap dog.
So funny.
His mother would actually rarely spend any length of time with Tim.
Sometimes she would drop the girls off every once in a while so that the three could spend time together,
but barely was she around herself.
So she would just pull up and just kick the girls out of the car and then leave.
Like, she wouldn't say hi to Tim.
Oh my god.
Ew.
In fact, one of Tim's friends said that she thought that Tim's mother was actually dead,
since Tim only ever spoke highly about his father and never spoke about his mother.
Well, what do you have to say about his mom?
I'm sorry, but I don't even know his mom.
Well, yeah, and he's probably embarrassed or ashamed.
He's like, my mom left me.
Like, I've, you know, why are you going to just tell people that?
It's easier to just be like, oh, my mom's not in the picture.
Yeah.
And saying like, oh, my mom decided that she didn't want to be with my mundane dad.
My soup's cash dad.
Ooh, I forgot about that for merch.
Soup's cash would be great.
I don't even know how you would spell cash.
Just CAS.
I feel like it'd be like CASZ.
Cash.
I don't know.
Maybe with like an X.
Cax.
Fucking soup.
Cax.
No, he's guilty as fuck, but he got a big ass can.
I think I said that so nonchalantly in my, what I was actually doing in the case.
I was like, yeah.
And he said he was like super well endowed, which like, how the fuck do you know that?
But still.
What did you say?
He's testifying against him.
He's like, yo, you got a big dick.
Big old dick.
How do you do it, man?
How you do it?
God, it's terrible.
Oh gosh.
He's testing against him.
And he's like hyping him up.
Not like taking him to jail, but like taking him to jail for that dick.
That dick illegal.
It's so stupid.
Sorry, mom.
No wonder what's your face.
Joyce was all about him.
Joyce, yeah.
She's like, I heard some.
Joyce was hypnotized.
I've heard some stories and let me just shoot my shot.
Oh shit.
So Tim around this time, of course, wished to invite his friends over like anyone else in
high school.
But the house was in a great state because it simply was Tim and William together,
but most of the time it was just him.
Well, yeah, and William's gone all the time.
So he's not, I mean, he works a shitload.
So he's probably not worried about cleaning and Tim is a teenager.
Yeah, he's so child.
So he's not going to be like, it's not going to be like crystal clear or crystal clean
when they come in.
So he did spend a lot of time at friends' houses instead.
He was sometimes described as withdrawn, but others said that he was very outgoing.
So I guess it's just dependent on if you were a friend or not.
Yeah, like who he knew.
Tim was often bullied and would sometimes fantasize about harming the bullies at school.
We always hear that, right?
Who doesn't though?
I mean, I got bullied in high school and I was like,
man, I just want to like shove my fists through her skull, you know, like that.
Because it's just, I mean, not clearly there's a point.
Yeah, I was going to say, you weren't like, let me go get an AR-15 and murder them.
You were like, well, it'd be nice if they're in grown toenails, verbally bad.
I hope they get food poisoning.
I hope you stub your toe every day of the week.
So this would actually become a bigger fantasy of Tim's after his grandfather introduced him to guns.
Hunting was prevalent in the area and in an effort to connect further with his family,
anybody in his family really, Tim asked to accompany his grandfather on several hunting trips.
Okay.
Of course, what grandfather doesn't want to teach their grandchild how to hunt to connect,
especially when he sees that Tim is missing half of his family and the one family member
that he is living with is not really home.
Yeah, that's always really shitty because it's like, I'm trying to introduce you to something
that we can bond over, something that some families think are very important, but it's
unfortunate that sometimes it gets introduced to a child that has been neglected, ignored,
and or has a mental illness that no one has recognized because they don't pay attention to him.
Because then it becomes a way of dealing with your problems and not a hobby or a sport for game
or whatever.
Right.
And I bet that he feels like, well, at least he's getting some outside time.
A kid that's always on the computer, it's nice to be out in nature and stuff.
Right.
It's just, it's a hard situation because it's not, it's not anybody's fault at that point,
I feel like.
I mean, except for the parents, obviously, that are ignoring him.
Yeah.
But Tim, of course, found guns fascinating at this point and he soon began talking about
guns at school, maybe in an effort to seem like more tough or more powerful.
And he had actually on several occasions brought guns to school to show his friends.
And who is just like watching this happen and not reporting it?
Like even the kids, they weren't like,
hey, by the way.
Right.
Oh, my God, a gun.
Yeah.
It was like, nobody saw, nobody, everybody came, everybody saw and, you know, didn't say anything.
Or it's like, you know, some of those kids came home and they were like,
hey, someone saw how to gun at school today.
The parents weren't like, wait, who had a gun at school?
We need to report this.
I don't know.
Unless they were scared of Tim.
Oh, no, man.
You know.
But then he, you said he had like a number of friends that said he was like really
outgoing and really nice.
Wouldn't they be like the nice people to, I don't know.
I don't know.
I mean, who knows what his friends were like in high school.
And you can never really.
You could have just been like the rebellious kids or something.
Yeah.
You can't really rely on kids to like do the right thing all the time.
Yeah.
It sounds bad, but teach your kids better is my point.
Every time I say something like this, teach your kids better.
If someone brings a gun to school and shows your kid,
your kid better fucking tell the principal or someone.
If a kid brings an animal to school, you shouldn't even fucking touch it.
There was that bat, rabies bat that that kid brought on.
No.
One rose.
When I was in elementary school, there was a kid that brought
a bat that he found on the ground while he walked the bus stop.
At your school?
Yes.
What the hell?
In elementary school.
And he brought a bat that he just found on the ground,
onto the school bus, and all the kids touched it, and they all had to get rabies shots.
Oh my God.
Ew.
Because it was still alive.
They were like, there's no reason why a bat should just be laying on the ground in the middle of the day.
Oh, that's terrible.
Yeah.
Well, not in the middle of the day, but yeah.
You know.
Isn't that an internal.
It's not an internal.
So in the day at all.
Mom couldn't remember if I rode the bus that day.
I'm pretty sure.
She was like, did you ride the bus that day?
No, I don't remember seeing a bat.
I feel like I remember seeing a bat.
I feel like that's something that you wouldn't forget.
Yeah.
I'm assuming that everybody understands that I don't mean a baseball bat at this point because I can't see a bat.
Get a rabies shot from handling a bat.
Oh gosh.
So Tim around this time was talking about how one of his desires or his dreams were to open up a gun shop one day.
It's like, I'm gonna open up a gun shop.
Okay.
That's what he sounds like in my mind.
I have no idea what he what he sounds like.
He considered guns to be the greatest equalizers.
He had always said that he's like, gun is like the gun is the greatest equalizer.
Like because he was this scrawny, lanky little shit, you know.
I feel like we're doing a case on the same person.
You better not.
It's not.
But it sounds very similar to my case.
Oh gosh.
Around this time, he also began to read survivalist handbooks and became obsessed with stockpiling,
canned food and water.
Okay.
And where are his parents during all of this?
I guess his dad's at work and his mom's gone.
Yeah.
God, like, it just always amazes me when kids have so much time to do things like this.
Like they didn't notice this.
You're telling me his dad didn't notice this stockpiling because he's not paying attention to it.
Because he's not paying attention?
Well, he's not home.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
That's awful.
And not only that, but you have to think about his mentality.
Like his mentality right now is that he can only survive on his own.
Yeah.
So it's being instilled in him at a really young age that he needs to provide his own food,
his own water, his own safety.
Yeah.
Because he didn't get that.
And I don't need to say anything negative about William, is the dad?
William.
About William.
Because I know that you have to work.
Like it's not feasible to not work or to not, you know, he probably didn't have a choice the hours that he worked.
Yeah.
But like, talk to your fucking kids, you know?
Like make sure that they feel loved and safe and cared for and not ignored.
Right.
So Tim also became very politically like forward.
He would often speak about how one day he wanted another war to happen or would happen.
And that he would essentially be prepared as a survivalist like for this combat.
Yeah.
So he's instilled at like, again, at 14, 15 years old that he must protect himself.
And in a weird way, I feel like it's almost paranoia at this point.
Well, I think that's a good point.
Well, it's also kind of delusional because when are you going to be in combat?
Are you planning on joining the military?
Because if not, most likely won't be in combat in your life.
So it's not logically thinking, I want to put my best foot forward.
I want to serve my country.
It's we're going to fucking war.
And I'm going to be the one that is smart and has all this shit.
Exactly.
It's a delusion.
So Tim felt that he didn't really belong or feel that he had a very big sense of camaraderie
around his peers.
And then he essentially couldn't be, couldn't wait to be old enough to join the military.
That's something that he wanted to do.
A lot of Tim's friends felt that the divorce had honestly really messed him up at this point,
which we kind of just talked about, that he didn't really feel like he was a part of anything.
And then he kind of was looking to survive on his own or how he can accomplish that.
And that sucks too, because it's making it look like
like divorced parents can't raise great children.
And it's like people can be, don't say in a fucking marriage if you're not happy,
but do it the right way.
Don't be like, what's your face that I can't pronounce her name and then leave
and just drop the kids off without even saying hi to your third kid?
Like that's not fucking cool.
Yeah.
Well, I'm sure Tim also at the same time was like, fuck you, mom.
Yeah, but there's a reason why he thinks that.
Yeah.
So Tim was an exceptionally bright student as we normally see.
Later on, he would be assessed, excuse me, assessed and his IQ was actually at a 126.
Damn.
So he was pretty smart.
But this would not stop Tim from only doing the bare minimum at school and I reflected poorly in his
grades or reflected in his grades.
They were poor.
He probably thought that he could just wing it and not have to study because he's smart.
Yeah.
And then just didn't learn the material.
It's like, yeah, you can be smart, but you got to know what the fucking test is over.
Yeah, prove to me that you're smart.
Yeah.
Tim was able to have at least one successful semi-romantic relationship.
It wouldn't last very long though.
So we only essentially ever had reports of a girl that maybe they hold hands in between classes or
some shit, but they didn't.
From everyone else's perspective and understanding, it didn't seem like it was a sexual relationship.
I'll just say that.
Okay.
So it was surprising that Tim would put on his senior note that he was not a very successful
girl, but it was something that Tim would put on his senior notes underneath his photo under his
future plans as quote, take it as it comes, buy a Lamborghini, California girls, end quote.
He was just a big fan of like Katy Perry and she thought, yeah, I didn't come out for like years later.
But they thought that that was strange because he was never really this like womanizer trying to get it girls.
Yeah.
Very strange.
That's probably a delusion.
Like once I get to this age, I'm just going to be this amazing mastermind.
It really kind of seems like he's never, of course, never been taught this, but the mentality is like,
I don't really have to work hard.
I thought he doesn't have to work hard, but I don't think he realizes that you have to work hard to get
things like that.
He just wants it, right?
Or he thinks he's going to have it.
So he's kind of like, he's not really, he's jumping a lot of steps.
For me, it sounded satirical.
It sounded sarcastic.
Okay.
Like it was like, oh, I guess like I'm just going to grow up in Bialymporghini and have all these women like, you know.
So he's like, he's saying it like he would never happen.
Yeah.
Or that's what like society expects of me type shit.
You know, like I'm just going to go be the CEO of a company.
Yeah.
Might as well follow in the path that they want me to.
Yeah.
Spare a world, just hack into their computer.
I'll just do everything I want.
Spare a world.
It's like that 90s shit where you see it like in a movie and it's just I'm in.
Yes.
You have to think the glasses, like the glasses inside.
Yeah.
Just thinking of a, when you were talking about Lyle Menendez and oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you.
So I saw, I know you have to say something too.
I saw a photo of Lyle and Eric Menendez.
I don't know if you have seen this photo, but they went to an NBA game like after they killed their parents and before they got caught.
And there's a photo of them like the guy is like, it's like a basketball photo and it's on a fucking card.
Like a, what's it called?
Copy?
No, like a player's card, like a, like a collectible card.
What is it called?
Yeah, like a collectible card.
Yeah, but they're in the background of it on the fucking card.
What?
No, they didn't go to an NBA game that night.
Not that night, but before they got caught.
They, it was with, what, they were, oh, oh, oh, like, I know what you mean.
Not that night, but before they got found out that they did it.
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
For some reason I thought it was, you were essentially saying it was like their alibi or some shit.
No, no, no, no.
Yeah, look, I just looked it up.
It's Mark Jackson and look there they are in the background.
That's crazy.
And it's on a card and this card has since been like super famous.
Like they sell for like, I mean, $150 because the Menendez was on it.
This is creepy.
So yeah, for all of you listeners out there, I don't know if anybody's been following this or not,
but I think it's Peacock that did a documentary about Newfound Evidence in the Menendez trial.
Oh yeah. Or yeah, Newfound Evidence.
So under habeas corpus, they're claiming that they are wrongfully imprisoned because
the second trial that they had, so the first trial that they had was hung jury and they did not
come to a consensus.
They retried it, but they retried it without the abuse allegations that, you know, that they
had said that their father, Jose Menendez, one of the murder victims, was sexually assaulting the boys
or had in the past and that they were very afraid that now that they were older,
Jose was going to have them hurt or murdered or put away in asylums.
It only stopped like what, two or three weeks before the killings.
And so now they're going to reintroduce that evidence, but since then, one of the members of
Minuto, which is a boy band back then, who was under RCA records, which is where Jose Menendez
worked or was the CEO or the head of the company or whatever, that this band member of Minuto has
claimed that he was sexually assaulted or raped by Jose Menendez.
Yeah, you told me that.
And it was during this time that it would have been around this time that the boys were also
experiencing abuse.
So that and the second piece of evidence that they want to introduce is that Eric was writing
his cousin or him and Lyle's cousin like six to nine months before the crimes were perpetrated.
Speaking about the abuse, like essentially saying to this cousin,
you know, you know how my dad is, like essentially, you know what he did or whatever.
And I don't know if it explicitly says that or not because it's all going to come out on the
documentary.
But they've already filed for a retrial under habeas corbis, meaning that the boys are falsely
imprisoned because none of this evidence was available at the time.
So wild.
Honestly, like, you know, listeners, if you haven't heard that episode, definitely go back and listen.
But I cried like during that episode.
Like I was so emotional about it because it's so hard.
Like you want to feel bad for the parents and you want to feel bad for the, you know,
brothers.
And God, it just sucks.
Like I truly, truly believe that it was self-defense after the fact.
Like that's my opinion and people have different opinions, whatever.
But I will say that now with that new evidence, it's really, I don't want to say exciting,
but it's really kind of telling.
It is telling.
And especially now it's not just, okay, the boys were just trying to like save their asses,
and that's why they just threw that information in there.
No, now it's two, if not one, because the cousins since passed away, correct?
Yes.
The cousin.
Yeah, two people that have allegedly new victims, one of them can potentially testify.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
And the reason that they didn't, because that was my first question was, well,
if they had this letter, why would they not?
Yeah, they didn't.
They didn't.
It was only recently found within the last year or so, because the cousin actually passed away
a month after he would receive the letter.
So it was just put into his effects and given to another family member and buried underneath
all this stuff.
And so they were going through, yeah.
I bet Eric, when Eric heard that letter was surfaced, he was like, oh, I bet he lost his
shit.
Yeah.
And they're both like married now, right?
They're both married.
Yeah, successfully.
One is Tammy, I think was the car sheer or something, right?
Yeah.
I think that's, I don't want to speak if that's Lyle or Eric's wife, but yeah, one of them
has been married since the trial, essentially, or afterwards.
I know we kind of talked about this the other night and we'd like to hear your guys' opinions
as well.
But honestly, like I kind of told Koel the other night, I won't lose any sleep if they
get out on probation parole or just get out.
I definitely think it was an isolated event.
I do not think they're a danger to society.
I think they have had a lot of time to kind of grasp and think about what happened.
Definitely don't agree with what they did.
However, I think that they were just as, I think they were victims in and itself as
well as the parents.
Yeah.
I mean, they were 18 and 21.
Yeah.
They were kids.
Like, they're children.
I don't say that about a lot of people that are in prison that I wouldn't mind if they
got out.
But I definitely, I mean, it just, it was just spiraling.
In my head yesterday about how we've never seen anything like that in our lifetime.
Yeah.
And if the, if they were to have a retrial and it were to result in a verdict of manslaughter,
they could get time served and just be out.
Yeah.
They definitely could.
It's been 25 years or something, no longer than that.
But yeah, definitely go listen to that case if you haven't.
If you're like, what the fuck are they talking about?
Go listen to Lyle.
It's been 40 years actually.
40 years.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
Lyle and Eric Menendez.
They're brothers and we did a case on them.
Coel did a great job on their case a couple months back.
So go find it and we'll continue with this one.
Sorry, y'all.
So we were, where we left off was Tim had put in his senior notes, the Lamborghini California
girls, that's what got into it was the whole, our impression of Jose Menendez.
No, that's what I was going to say was when he wanted to talk to his dad, he was like,
make an appointment.
Make an appointment.
That's what I was going to say.
Make an appointment.
It's a real world, you can't just go to the doctor when you need to.
So Tim had written, you know, continuing this senior year book underneath after high school,
like what you're going to do after high school, Tim put quote, in and out of work,
increasingly obsessed with guns and quote.
Increasingly obsessed with guns.
Oh my God.
I was doing that bonus episode with Lady the other day I told you and we were talking about
like people that write letters to serial killers and stuff.
The episodes are already out if you want to listen, but they were talking about
how, oh, at one point they had sent in like something like that to a bunch of serial killers.
Like, my favorite color is blank.
Like my favorite animal is blank.
My favorite hobby is blank.
My person I admire is yeah, and Richard Ramirez filled one out.
No, he did not.
I swear to God.
I forgot to tell you.
For Lady?
Yes.
What the fuck?
No, no, no, no, they didn't do it.
Someone had done it in the past.
I was like, why are you just telling me this?
You think Richard Ramirez filled one out?
He's dead.
I know he's dead, but I don't know.
It was just, he's John Lennon dead?
Oh, someone else in the past had sent these in and Lady was reading one.
But Richard Ramirez filled one out and it said, I think it said like the person I admire most is
or whatever, like my idols and he put Jack the Ripper.
I'm like, okay.
And then at the very end, I'm pretty sure they put like my favorite art.
One thing I would do for the rest of my life or whatever it was and he put like
sex drugs and rock and roll.
Those people.
Yeah.
Stupid like that.
He's such a dick or was.
He was such a dick.
Like such a troll.
Like, yeah, he was a troll.
Remember, I showed you those videos of him like being interviewed and I think I mentioned it in
the episode itself where he just has this face like he wants to, he's portraying someone who's
demented.
He's not actually demented.
Yeah.
And it's very eerie to watch because I don't know what's worse.
I don't know what's worse that you're actually demented or you portray like you want someone to
think you are.
Just to scare people.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I actually found it really quick.
I just wanted to read this last part.
My biggest regret not carrying a gun at all times.
It sounds like this guy.
BTK leaving the needle nose pliers behind.
Favorite meals, women's feet.
I think in the lady episode I was like, all right, Quentin Tarantino.
All right, Tarantino.
Oh, it's so stupid.
And then yeah, childhood heroes, Jack the Ripper.
So.
Childhood heroes?
Yes.
He should have put his cousin.
That would be too real.
Or his uncle.
Here it is.
Ideal evening, full moon, sex and drugs all night.
Full moon?
He has to become a werewolf first.
Yeah, for sure.
Anyway, you can listen to more about that on the lady episode.
Go ahead.
No worries.
So yeah, increasingly obsessed with guns.
It kind of reminded me of Randy Starr.
When he would say things like that just to.
Wow, people.
Like when he would write those essays and it would be about someone who would die at the end.
Yeah.
And he was just crying out for attention.
Well, yeah, you can't tell if it's like a cry for attention or like a shock factor thing either.
Right.
It's like, oh, if they read this, they're going to be like, what the fuck?
Or it's going to be like, oh, maybe this will get me like the attention that I need.
I'm sure Timothy McVeigh in high school was definitely one of those people that you.
We're like, at least I was nice to you.
Remember I was nice to you, you know.
Yeah.
It's like fucking, what's his name?
I had someone like that in my high school and I was always so nice to him and all my friends were
assholes to him and I was so nice to him.
I worked with somebody like that too.
So it was terrifying.
That's not funny, sorry.
So underneath organized activities, he would choose not to put track and field in his activities or
organizations, but instead chose to put quote, staying away from school, losing sleep, finding it in school, and end quote.
Finding sleep in school, like sleeping through my classes?
Like I'm sleeping through my classes, which was hilarious because everybody's like, well,
no, he doesn't sleep through his classes.
He doesn't skip school.
You're a deep bro.
Yeah.
Again, it's just Tim trying to be edgy, I guess.
So Tim would eventually graduate in 1986 and around this time, employment at auto and steel
industries began to decline.
Layoffs and downsizing, so on and so forth.
But Tim's father was struggling to make ends meet.
So just do through labor cuts and hours, things like that.
Oh, so now he's going to be home more.
So now he's going to pay attention to now he's got to pay attention.
Tim remembered that quote, you might as well just get a job at the local McDonald's for six an hour, end quote.
He said that to his dad.
He said that just in general about the times like you might as well just go work at McDonald's.
Well, it's not his living.
This would only fuel Tim's idea of fighting the bigger bully, which was the government at this point.
Okay.
Tim also began to read the Turner Diaries and for anybody that doesn't know what the Turner Diaries
is, I didn't.
So I googled it.
It was a book that came out in 1978 and was a novel about overthrowing the US government
after the main character and his insurgents began a race war.
Okay.
Specifically in the book, they bomb an FBI building using a box truck.
Jesus.
It was written as quote, explicitly racist and anti-semitic, end quote.
It has been called the Bible of the Racist Right by the FBI.
Geez, that's as official as you can get.
Yeah.
What a title.
It's author William Pierce, which I didn't even want to put his name in because I was like,
this piece of shit doesn't deserve recognition, but he was a part of the National Alliance,
which is a neo-Nazi group.
Super swell guy, right?
There it is.
What a peach.
It wouldn't actually be until 2020 that Amazon would remove the book off of its website for sale.
Yeah.
Damn.
And it was, it's actually outright illegal to own it in Canada.
Not even kidding.
Well, they don't want anyone getting any fucking ideas.
Yeah.
It can be confiscated at the border when you try to go through the border as it's illegal to own
hate propaganda and they consider it hate propaganda.
That's literally so funny though.
This is shit.
Okay, you're crossing the border.
All right, so I'm going to have to check your car for this book.
For a book?
There's actually one book.
Canada has a list of books you can't bring in.
That is wild.
Is that intense?
That is intense.
I kind of fucking love that though.
So needless to say, Tim would become extremely critical of minorities around this time.
Specifically people of color, excuse me.
And of course he would become anti-Semitic as well.
So he would be blaming them for lack of livable working wages like dick-dicker-derves, you know?
Is he white?
Tim, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I figured why does it matter.
Y'all could think of was the dick-dicker-derves from from South Park.
You don't remember that from South Park?
I don't watch South Park.
Oh, okay. Well, it's just a famous quote from South Park.
It's like people complaining about people of color, like minorities taking their jobs
or stealing their jobs, and it's just a bunch of like old white men going like dick-dicker-derves.
Yeah, dick-dicker-derves.
You need dick-dicker-derves.
It's like, bitch, you're retired.
Yeah.
You need to be taking your job.
So it's important to gain an education around this time because when going through like the
hiring pool, you want to look good and have a degree in stuff.
For sure.
So a lot of Tim's peers decided to go to college,
but Tim decided after a few semesters that he wanted to pursue other things and he quit school.
I am just too cool for school.
Yeah.
College is for losers.
I'm going to just be a gun person.
I ain't a pot of your system.
So you got a job driving an armored truck.
So Tim loved this job for the most part.
He loved having power and making him self-feel really important.
Did he carry a gun on his person at all times as well?
The second best thing about this job was that he got to carry a gun to work.
It's great.
So he just toted around a gun all day.
Of course he did.
One of his co-workers remembers on one occasion that Tim came to work with bandoleros around
his chest full of ammunition, like ponchovia.
Like, bitch, you don't need that shit.
Calm down.
Calm the fuck down.
Reminds me of hot fuzz.
Like, it's just a joke.
Have you ever seen the movie Pain and Gain?
No.
It's with the one that rocked Downsend.
Mark Wahlberg?
Mark Wahlberg, yeah, Marky Mark.
I know the story because it's based off of a true story.
It is.
I was actually thinking about doing that for one of our cases.
I thought it was a really interesting one.
Simplest side note.
At one point, the rock steals a bag of cash from an armored truck when they try to shoot
on him and he gets away and then he goes and he like runs into like a, I think like a
bus station or something?
Anyway, and he opens it up and it's blazing with all this ink and it's so funny.
And then it goes like, he like shows up to you like his friend's wedding or whatever.
Like Mark Wahlberg's like, dude, why are you green?
I was like, what the fuck is that?
It's just a really funny scene.
I don't know what I said earlier, but they're bandoliers.
I don't know what I said earlier.
I think you said that.
I thought I said bandoleros.
No, I think you said bandoliers.
Bandoliers.
Like a chandelier, bandolier.
Yeah, bandolier.
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So Tim would often speed around in the truck while driving it and road-raging at other people,
literally shouting, like begging for a chance to shoot people.
Oh, like he would say, oh, this motherfucker does it again.
I don't want to fucking shoot that guy.
Like with his partner in the truck, too.
Yeah, with a co-worker, because they would always have to ride in tandem.
Yeah.
So would he like brandish his weapon, like to show somebody?
Probably.
Well, that's a felony.
Well, even if you're working for an armored truck, it's a fucking felony.
He's been bringing guns to school circa, like, 85, so he probably doesn't give a shit.
I'm just saying, I just think it's funny that, like, well, it's not funny.
But, like, here in Texas, for people that don't know, it's legal to have a handgun in your car.
You don't have to have a license for it.
But it's a felony to show someone that you have a handgun in your car.
It's like, hey, check this out.
But, like, the fucking handgun in your car.
Like, God, it just seems reckless as fuck.
He is.
He doesn't give a shit.
It's not.
It's unhinged.
It's not funny.
It's unhinged.
In January 1988, Tim and a friend of his would choose to purchase some property outside of Buffalo.
Tim said that this was a dream of his to have this kind of survivalist bunker and a space to
target practice.
Okay.
Target practice.
Okay.
Okay. Neighbors would say that they could hear Tim and his friends shooting and detonating explosives
for hours at a time, day after day.
Dude, I'm going to have to research someone else.
This is so similar to like, okay.
Oh, no.
Shit.
No, it's going to be cool.
It's just funny because we always, like, think alike and we say the same things at the same time with the same, like, tone.
And so it's funny that we're both doing similar cases within a week.
I didn't want to do this because, well, I won't reveal right now why I didn't want to do it.
But, by May, Tim would enlist in the army after venting to several people that he felt like his life had no direction.
And this was seemingly his only other option was to, like, go into the military.
But you already kind of want to do anyways.
Well, maybe you could have stayed in college because that was an option as well.
And then you just like,
True. For computer programming or like cyber security, you would fucking rule with that.
I guarantee you.
He goes to the dean, he hacks into the fucking national database and they're like, here's your fucking diploma.
Yeah.
Like, he doesn't need to take all the courses.
You have to hack into the school system or something.
And then, yeah.
He's like, look, I am the FBI.
And they're like, okay, here you go.
Here's your credentials.
And a job.
Jim would, Jim, who's Jim?
Who the fuck is Jim?
Tim would thrive in this environment, as they usually do, because there's a lot of routine here, right?
I say they as in killers.
Well, yeah.
And also, again, we said, like, in the last episode or the one before, like, if you want to, like, kill people for, like,
a hobby, then just like, join the military.
Yeah.
Especially, that sounds bad.
Become an assassin.
Become an assassin or become a hitman or become a sniper, you know?
But a lot of people do choose the military because it's a legal way of killing people.
But it's unfortunate, but it happens.
Hey, rather than fucking, than killing people on the streets, civilians.
True, yeah.
So Tim actually found several like-minded conservatives, including Terry Nichols, who was like his BFF.
Tim would quickly scale the ranks into becoming a sergeant, actually.
So most of the qualities and concerns that the average civilian would mostly have about Tim's
behavior was actually really supported and encouraged in the military, right?
So it's, you know, neighbors would complain about the explosives or you shooting in your backyard until
8 a.m. in the morning or something.
But this was kind of, everybody was doing the same kind of shit.
Well, yeah.
And they're like, great, you have experience.
Tim boasted that he already knew how to shoot and very well and how he knew how to create explosives already,
which seemed to impress most of his comrades.
Yeah, no one was like, how'd you do that?
They're like, teach me.
Teach me, yeah.
Help me out.
Yeah.
Furthermore, since Tim was highly intelligent, he excelled at any test that was thrown at him academically.
And by all accounts, Tim was an exemplary sergeant.
He just had one thing that was kind of in the back of everybody's mind,
that kind of bothered them about Tim.
It just didn't sit well.
That he was insanely fucking racist.
Oh.
Which, of course, we kind of already understood because of the Turner Diaries thing.
Yeah, he, uh, was really great at making bombs and, you know, shooting things, but he's kind of an asshole.
He's just a fucking racist.
Fucking dickhead.
He would give extra attention to white subordinates saying that they needed to work twice as hard,
because quote, if you're white, you can do better on a fitness test, show up on time every day.
Look perfect in your uniform.
And if eight jobs are open, five will go to blacks no matter if they're overweight, barely pass the test,
and their uniform is wrinkled.
End of quote.
There is so many fucking things wrong with that quote.
Yup.
That's what it is.
Like all that, like, it doesn't, to him it didn't matter.
And he was in fact encouraging white subordinates to work twice as hard, because these black people over here
are gonna just take the position anyways.
He was a racist piece of shit.
What the fuck?
He was once reprimanded for wearing a white power shirt on base.
No, he was not.
And when asked when to explain why he thought this was okay to wear this, he said that he had seen another man wearing a black power shirt.
So he was just trying to, like, you know, make it even.
Yeah.
He's one of those.
That's ridiculous.
They should just stay in their uniforms the whole time so that nothing.
Yeah, especially on base.
Like, well, I guess they couldn't can wear civilian clothes, but it just depends on where you're at, I guess.
Yeah.
For this alone, though, it was very difficult to work with Tim even for some of his closest people,
other than Terry Nichols, because that guy's an asshole.
Eventually, Tim was sent to serve in the Persian Gulf War in 1990.
While Tim was serving, he would win medals for a shot that he made from 2,000 yards away.
Jesus.
He recalled, quote, his head just disappeared.
I saw everything above the shoulders disappear, like a red mist, end quote.
He killed a person?
I'm sorry.
A person.
Oh, Jesus.
Like, yeah.
2,000 yards away?
It was an Iraqi soldier, yeah.
That is so fucking far.
Tim, when later comes to fully understand how underprepared Iraqi soldiers were at the time,
they had very little protective gear and inferior weapons.
He said later, quote, Saddam, if he ever showed up, chicken shit bastard, because they were all in the army.
Chicken shit bastard.
Because of him, I killed a man who didn't want to fight us, but was forced to, end quote.
He has a point.
It's true.
I mean, it's, I mean, it sucks.
And it seemed to really profoundly fuck him up.
Well, yeah, that's fucked up.
Like, I agree.
Tim, after winning these awards for killing this man and being offered a spot on special ops,
did two days of training, but ultimately quit.
He applied for discharge, was approved, and left in 1991.
Okay.
So this is called diagnosing a killer.
And it kind of seems like he's leaving the military because he doesn't want to kill people anymore.
But this is far from over, I'm assuming.
So, that's kind of strange to me.
There's a few things at play, so we'll get to it.
Yeah, of course.
When he returned home, friends and family became concerned for his mental well-being.
The experiences he had only fueled his decreasing mental state.
Oh my God.
Tim had left the property outside Buffalo and had moved back into his father's home.
Tim tried to go back to being a security guard and tried several different places,
but nothing really stuck.
Tim felt that the mundane highs and lows of everyday life were beneath him, essentially.
Honestly, I don't get why we don't line up jobs for veterans.
You come out of the military, you serve our country, and we're not going to give you a job
after that ongoing.
I mean, if you're dishonorably discharged, you go, well, that's different.
But just leaving the military did my part, now I'm back, and now I don't have anywhere to fucking go.
And I'm suffering mentally, like mental health-wise.
God, that's fucked up.
Tim had just experienced way too much for chatting to just chat, like for chatting's sake.
He just, in his mind, there were all of these things that were going on.
Too much going on.
And he just became, it's like having a tolerance level, like when you're addicted to something.
Yeah.
Your tolerance for, you know, the anxiety or the adrenaline or the whatever you're experiencing
is so high that coming back to just chat around the water cooler, like, no.
And I guarantee you he's also kind of thinking like, you guys are all just going about your
fucking business and you have no idea what's going on, like in the real world.
Yeah, in the world.
Like out there, yeah.
Do you hear that noise?
It's like a growl.
So he decided at this point he wanted to revisit his desire to open up a gun and ammo shop
and began selling, buying, and trading guns at gun shows.
And fireworks.
Where does he live again?
Well, he was kind of all over the place.
Right now he's with his dad outside, like in Buffalo area.
Oh yeah, near.
But during this kind of gun show thing he began to travel more.
He actually began to attend KK rallies.
I mean KKK rallies.
It's like, what's that?
KKK rallies.
But still fucked up.
In Kansas specifically, he would travel for gun shows and stuff like that.
Although we found some sense of belonging at these rallies, he criticized the members
for focusing too much on race and not enough about arming themselves for when the shit
would ultimately hit the fan with the government.
It kind of seems like he, like, okay, he's clearly a racist piece of shit.
Yeah, of course.
But it almost seems like he wants these people to like, he just wants a group of people that
are already pissed off about something so that he can like create like a bigger.
Make them more pissed off.
It's almost like a cult idealation.
Like he's like, okay, we should all be prepared for this.
Like you're gonna be mad.
Let's be mad about this and let's all prepare instead of like trying.
Because clearly he's probably preached about this to like his friends in school or whatever
it is and they're like, you're fucking nuts.
And so he has to find people that are already.
Other than Terry Nichols.
Other than Terry.
But it seems like he's just looking for groups of people, like I said, that are already like
tight about something and then he's just gonna make them try to make them like more
mad.
Government, I guess.
I think it's hilarious that the KKK wasn't like, fuck this guy.
Who the fuck is this guy?
Yeah.
Timothy McVeigh was like, fuck the KKK.
Yeah, exactly.
You know?
Jesus.
Like they don't want to listen to me.
Yeah.
Raise this piece of shit.
Yeah.
So Tim around this time would also try to pursue a woman, but was quickly shot down by this woman.
And it was said later that Tim, it was suspected that Tim was like, he never
lost his virginity, essentially.
It was speculated later in life because he was never actually romantically involved with any
woman that anybody saw throughout his life.
Do you think that was on purpose or on accident?
I think that his mind was too busy, honestly.
I think so too.
I was gonna say like, I wouldn't put it past him that he's like, I don't have fucking time for
women.
I'm not gonna get laid because I'm gonna make an excuse for it.
Yeah.
I'm too busy to get laid, not that like I can't get laid.
Yeah.
You know, like kind of like make it like his idea.
Well, apparently on one of the trips when he was the security guard for the armored truck,
that one of their stops, a woman had found Tim attractive or something and had slipped
her number to his coworker.
And when the coworker gave it to Tim, he ripped up the number.
I feel like it's one of those things like he doesn't know it's like, oh, she's not hot enough.
Or yeah, like he'll make up an excuse to make it his idea so he doesn't have to get rejected.
Yeah.
Tim around this time would start writing to local papers, government officials and friends
and family complaining about politics.
He had huge problems with gun control issues and taxes for the most part.
Didn't want to pay taxes.
Tim would eventually reconnect with his old army buddy, Terry Nichols, who had at this point
settled in Michigan.
BFFs.
I see you buddy.
Tim followed Terry to Michigan and although he would say that he never really felt like he had a
permanent home after this, he did, of course, that his BFF and they are buddies or something.
Brutal fucking friends.
Brutal friends.
So yes, after this, Tim essentially said he never really found a home again.
He just traveled a lot.
Okay.
Why do I always have things like that that happen on the air?
February 28th, 1993, Tim heard something come across his radio that peaked his interest enough
to pack his car and drive south in a hurry.
Oh no.
The ATF was serving a warrant on the compound owned by the branch Davidians in where a shootout ensued.
Tim, being passionate about the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms and feeling like the ATF
had no grounds to pursue a warden, he headed to Waco, Texas in support of the Davidians.
Obviously.
Obvi.
Obviously, that's where I know his name from.
Because I did the...
Well, I didn't do Waco, but I did Appalwhite.
Yeah, but I just, I knew his name.
I just couldn't connect like where I knew his name from.
He would post up outside of the Waco property, much like other protesters and counter protesters,
and sell pro-gun bumper stickers while waiting for the conclusion of the standoff.
It just says like go guns or something like that.
Or just guns with the thumbs up.
One of the bumper stickers said, quote,
When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw.
End quote.
Timmy the Kid.
God.
He was also interviewed by a local reporter where they were filming the standoff.
Tim said, quote,
The government is afraid of the guns that people have because they have to
have control of the people at all times.
Once you take away the guns, you can't do anything to the people.
You give them an inch and they take a mile.
I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government.
The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful,
and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control, end quote.
I'm not going to get political here, but the funny thing is,
is that what he's about to do is going to set off like a rapid increase in those events.
And he's over here like, one of the guns in the world,
and then does something with them that is terrible.
It's very interesting because,
and that's kind of what I guess I was going to say about the whole army thing,
I think that he thought that a much cheered point about people
wanting to go into the military so that they can kill people,
I think that he realized he was working for the government.
Yeah, well, I think maybe he went in thinking he could change their minds,
or maybe influence, or if he got high enough, he could make the decisions.
Yeah.
But, sorry, y'all couldn't see that, but Koala was rubbing her sock and it was making a noise,
and I like, she was shooting her hand away, but I thought it was really rude.
I was like, sorry.
Anyway, maybe he thinks like if he can get high enough in the rankings,
then he can have some sort of say in like what happened,
and then he, well, I guess he did get invited to be in special off,
but he probably realized like, well, this isn't fucking working,
like I am working for the government,
or I've become part of the people that I hate or whatever.
Yeah, I'm just a cog in the machine.
During the 51-day standoff, four ATF agents would die and 16 would be injured.
Oh my god.
On April 19, 1993, the final push from the ATF would result in the compound being burned to the
ground, resulting in the death of 76 Davidians, 26 of which are children,
including David Koresh and all of his own children.
Okay, can you explain to me one more time what the standoff was for?
So the ATF were serving warrants under, so they had apparently,
it's one of the biggest conspiracies, right, when it comes to things like this, right?
Common knowledge.
So apparently somebody from the branch of Indians from the compound reported to authorities that
there were illegal weapons and child abuse happening.
And the compound was like a cult?
Yes, okay, I didn't know that.
Sorry, the branch of Indians are the names of the cult.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, or yeah, the cult.
I mean, I kind of gathered that, but you know.
So David Koresh was the cult leader, and so David Koresh, so essentially ATF were serving a search
warrant for the compound, but they brought in like a shit ton of tactical vehicles, a shit ton,
because they had heard that there were a lot of weapons on the property.
So they went to go essentially knock down the door, I suppose, or whatever.
Anyways, a shootout ensued.
Four ATF agents were shot and killed, 16 injured.
But it took 51 days for this whole thing to happen?
Yes, because it was actually a compound.
It was like, and they had built this thing out of fucking steel, the branch of Indians themselves.
So it took them 51 days to seize control of it, essentially, or to like get through the whole thing?
But essentially, they didn't take control of it.
They had this grand idea that they were just going to roll tanks through the front door.
And the conspiracy is that either the ATF, the government itself, lit the house on fire to
encourage people to come out, or according to them, they said that the branched of Indians
caused the fire, or the tanks themselves accidentally caused the fire either way.
I guess it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that it took 51 days when it
seemed like it originally should have been something that was done in a few hours or
a few days.
Well, it's not like this house, you know what I mean?
Yeah, it's big.
It's a compound.
They also know that there's tons of children in there.
They also knew that David Koresh had been shot because David Koresh was,
and had been on the phone with them, it's not like they just didn't know what was going on.
They had been on the phone with branched of Indians, they had been on the phone with David.
They knew that David was shot.
I just slapped my own hand.
They knew that David had been shot, and so I think what they thought is that David was
going to succumb to his own injuries, and then the rest of them would just surrender.
So the fire started, and again, and that's why I just said the final push for the ATF
would result in the compound being burned to the ground.
I didn't say who started it because I don't know, and that it would result in the death of
76 Davidians, 26 of which were children, including David Koresh, the leader, and his
own children, which I think he had like nine.
Okay.
And Tim was just there when it happened.
I think Tim was back home at Michigan at this point, but he had gone down over the course
of this 51 days multiple times down to the compound and was witnessing this happening.
Okay.
So Tim was really beside himself, especially knowing that there were children in the building,
and blamed the government, saying that the government had done this on purpose.
When they were serving a warrant that shouldn't have even, because it's their property,
they can do whatever they want, especially when it's tied up with the Second Amendment,
the right to bear arms, that he thought there was no reason why the federal government should
have gone up on this property in the first place and that the government killed these 76 people.
Yes.
He was really passionate about it.
Well, I can see a delusion.
Like that makes sense if it's a delusion that he's like, and it kind of makes sense in general.
You know, like I can see that making someone upset.
Yes.
So this was the nail in the coffin, the government coffin, if you will, for Tim,
and it likely worsened his PTSD and furthered his dissent into, you know, just mentally.
Yeah, and it increased his rage for, you know, authority and the government,
you already said that, but just adding up.
So Tim and Terry decided to relocate in Arizona.
Tim had been researching nuclear test sites, and through his own predictions,
if there were to be a nuclear war, this one area of Arizona, which is, I think it's Sledgeman,
would be the least likely to be exposed to the blast.
So they specifically moved there in case there was a nuclear war,
because it'll be like out of the blast zone, essentially, according to their research.
Yeah, because he's a scientist.
Yeah, totally.
So a few months later, in July 1994, Tim and another friend, Michael Forte,
were arrested for trespassing onto Area 51.
A little later, a few months later, he traveled to Mississippi under the hunch
that there was a government secret base there, which there was not.
He's lucky that he only got arrested for trespassing on Area 51.
He could have gotten fucking killed.
Now I think they're like gonna open up a fucking museum or some shit.
Are they? That's funny.
No, I don't think that they actually are, but they've released all those documents about the UFOs.
Fuck it, whatever.
Whatever.
Come on in.
Might as well make money off you dumbasses.
Just have a dude in an alien costume like, whoo-hoo.
Here's my robe.
Lights up, you want to see?
These are all the cow organs I cultivated over the last 25, 60 years.
Don't they like turn cows inside out or something?
I have no idea.
That's like the whole thing, no?
Have you seen the Jimmy Neutron movie?
No.
Oh, and he's like, when they go to the...
Their parents get kidnapped by aliens because Jimmy like tries to communicate with aliens
and they're like, oh, they look delicious.
So they take all the parents and then the kids go into space to rescue them.
Anyway, but the aliens are eggs.
Like they're in like an egg shell and they just have an eyeball.
They're like goopy on the bottom and they just have eyeballs that stick up and the kings...
Oh, I think it's one of the guys, he's like the king's brothers and things.
So like he has to kind of be around, but like he's not really like very bright.
And his name is Ublar.
And Dana always talking about it when he's like...
Excuse me.
They send like, they have like a toaster or something and they steal it.
He's like, oh, what's this from?
It came, he's like, oh, it came from that planet.
And he goes, hello, what species are you?
And he's like Ublar.
Hops up.
But he's like, Ublar, it's toast.
He's like talking to it.
He's like, where is your leader?
It's fucking funny.
For those people that have seen the movie.
No, I haven't seen that.
Thanks.
For those people that have seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about.
It was funny.
Anyway, good.
Quasal.
Yes, thank you.
So yes, there was no Mississippi military secret military base.
So again, this is just to show you that Tim is becoming obsessed if he wasn't before about
government things.
He's traveling all over the US to like catch the government.
Well, it's delusional.
Like it's just good.
So by the time that September rolled around, Tim began plotting with the help of Terry,
what would be the worst domestic terrorist attack in the US history?
What?
So September, right?
This was likely around the time that Tim would find out that one of the strictest
bans on assault rifles so far had just been passed as well.
Oh, OK.
So it disinfuriated Tim and Terry.
He's like, we got to do something about this before we can.
Knuckleheads.
There are plenty of documents out there telling you how they accomplished the
next process of this crime.
But I am not here to be a manual for anyone, so I'm not going to go over it.
But let's just say the two began collecting over a decent amount of time
ingredients to build a Wumbo-Jumbo bomb.
A bomb so massive it took over 5,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and nitromethane.
5,000 pounds.
This makes Jack Gilbert Graham look like a fucking pussy.
Puss, yeah.
Oh my god, that's a lot.
It's a lot.
And it would take-
How big was it physically?
This size of a truck?
Jesus.
Do you know this story?
So it took six months to plot, test, and plan, traveling several times to Oklahoma
City to scope out its target, the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.
The target was picked because not only did it- did a lot of federal agents work in the
building, but Tim specifically wanted to target ATF agents.
He knew that we're working in the building.
Even though they probably had nothing to do with the Waco thing.
No, absolutely not.
But this would be in retaliation for the perceived crimes against the Davidians and the
American people in general.
On April 19, 1995, Tim packed up a rider moving truck full of explosives.
Tim chose this date as it would mark the two-year anniversary of the Waco incident.
Two year?
Two years.
Okay.
Yeah.
And also, sorry, really quick, do you think this is like a Folly Adu kind of situation with
Terry or do you think Terry is just an asshole?
You know what?
That's a good question.
Because this is clearly a delusion that Tim is experiencing.
And Terry is along for the ride.
Do you think that Terry is believing the delusion and going along with it?
Or do you think he's just like, fuck yeah, let's kill some people?
I don't know.
I mean, they did meet in the army and I don't know.
Maybe they thought it was like this serendipitous thing, you know how they think about that like
T&O, you know?
That'd be interesting to know if that's what that was.
So he drove to the Murrah Federal Building located in downtown Oklahoma City.
Before he reached the building about one block away, Tim pulled over to light a fuse to the bomb.
It would give him just under two minutes to walk away from the scene.
I mean, you mean run away from the scene?
Jesus Christ.
He pulled up in front of the building and parked directly in front of it on the north side.
He swiftly got out and began to walk away from the scene.
At 9.02 a.m., just as the workday was to start for the employees at the Murrah Building,
the massive bomb went off, instantly destroying a third of the building.
168 people would be killed in the blast.
What Timothy McVeigh did not know at the time was that a daycare was actually located on the second floor.
Oh my god.
And 19 children would be killed.
What a fucking dumb- I hope he feels like shit because he was like,
oh they killed children, they killed children.
Exactly.
Fucking does the same thing.
Irony was not lost on McVeigh later as the thoughts of the Davidian compound and
witnessing the children lost in the fire haunted him on most nights.
Good.
McVeigh would later state that if he knew this information he likely would have chosen
another building to attack, which I don't believe.
I don't believe either and also like it doesn't fucking matter,
you still were trying to kill people.
Also I just realized this is Oklahoma City bombing.
You should like the case for me.
Just realized towards me yet.
You have case amnesia.
I don't get the luxury of clicking on the podcast with the title already there.
I have to type in the title after we're done recording.
I'm sure you know.
Yeah, I don't believe that for a second, especially since Cemetery were already going
to and from Oklahoma to stake it out.
Yeah, there was too much planning involved.
Yeah, they planned for six months and you tell me you didn't know that there was a daycare
located on the second floor.
The second floor.
He didn't fucking care.
And he parked on the north side where the daycare was located.
No, it was, I think that he knew it was there and I think he specifically put that
truck on that side of the building to kill those children
to make the government feel badly about what they did to the dividends.
I agree.
And oh, your ATF, if anybody survived, maybe their kid died and then they'll feel I'll
get them that way or whatever.
684 people would sustain injuries.
God.
Over 300 other buildings were also damaged in the blast.
Of course, most criminals we cover are not the brightest.
So some witnesses gave descriptions of the man swiftly walking away from the rider truck.
So this guy like bulleting away.
I saw this guy just like and he was running like a, like he was running like Gumby.
He had really long limbs.
He was very awkward.
He was very white, very tall.
He was wearing a shirt that said white power.
I don't know if he gets anything away.
Jesus.
That's a good one.
So police quickly located the axle of the rider truck that still lay in the middle of
the road where the truck was parked, not in the middle of the road, but on the sidewalk-ish.
Damn.
And of course, so it was, yeah, the axle was sitting right with it.
Just shoved into the ground.
Yeah.
And like just the truck itself was completely decimated.
Of course.
We, of course, this axle had a model number on it and they went to locate the rental truck
place, like just rental truck places with the composite sketch from the witnesses.
And the manager at the rental truck place positively identified the man as someone who
rented a truck from her earlier that morning at 8am.
Oh, that's-
She's like, that looks similar to the guy that I rented.
Yeah.
That truck too.
At 8am.
Yeah, he signed in.
Here's his name and his phone number.
Well, the truck was rented to a one Robert Kling, which I wonder if that meant something to him.
Doubt it.
But he actually used the address of the hotel he was staying at while he was in Oklahoma.
Yeah, in Oklahoma.
Jesus.
Which is cute.
Well, he thinks that if he uses an alias and the address-
The address doesn't matter.
Yeah, the address doesn't matter.
So when-
South Dakota is still looking at you.
They went to the hotel manager and she positively identified the individual as Timothy McVeigh
from the sketch.
That's hilarious.
She's like, yeah, that dude was totally checked in here, but he's already left.
He left this morning at 8am.
He was also the other guy named Terry Bradshaw.
Terry was actually not here at the time, by the way.
It wasn't Terry Bradshaw, by the way.
That was a surprise.
That was a bad joke.
It's scary, Terry.
Meanwhile, state trooper Charlie Hanger was on traffic patrol on the border of Oklahoma
and Kansas when a yellow 1977 Mercury marquee zoomed past him, speeding with no license plate.
You're going to speed away from the crime.
He's trying to get away.
Like, you're gonna get-
Gotta go.
Even if you get pulled over, like, why are you speeding?
Like, you're gonna get some sort of recognition.
I think it was slight.
I think it was like, eight over, ten over, but still.
Well, luckily he was.
The trooper pulled the car over and asked the man to step out of the vehicle as soon as
he noticed that a bulky item was sitting in the man's waistband.
The shirt that the man was wearing said, sick Semper tyrannous, which are the same words
that John Wilkes Booth shouted before assassinating Lincoln.
Fucking poetic.
Natural selection.
Yeah, I was gonna say, it reminds me of that.
Yeah, natural selection.
Randy Stair.
He had three of them.
He did, and he would-
That's all he ever- his closet probably looked like Doug Funnies.
It's just the same outfit, Doug, that Nickelodeon showed Doug.
Oh, oh, yeah, I know this.
Okay, okay.
The man was then arrested as his concealed carry license was good for Kansas, but not
Oklahoma, idiot.
The man would be later identified as Timothy McVeigh.
McVeigh was arrested just 90 minutes after the bombing.
Idiot.
He took you six months to plan it, took you an hour and a half to get caught.
This was like 10 minutes after he left, like the fucking, I don't know.
God.
Dum-dum.
Terry Nichols would actually turn himself in once he found out that McVeigh was being
held on federal charges.
So he was just like, I helped.
Okay, that makes me think it's folly to do because as soon as he's away from the
guy, his delusions go away.
Or he just was so fed, like he was like, oh, if he's there, I must go too, you know,
because they would just follow each other.
Yeah, I guess, but I don't know.
Like I feel like if he was still delusional, he would be like, oh, okay, like, yeah, we
did it.
Like we got to, I don't know.
But it makes me think that he's now thinking more clearly because he's not having Tim right
next to him to influence him.
Forteer and his partner would also give information to Forteer was the guy that went to Area 51
with Tim that one time.
And his partner, I think it was his wife, they would actually come forward with information
regarding their knowledge of what was to transpire.
They essentially cut a deal to testify against McVeigh and Nichols.
And I don't think that any charges were brought up against Forteer.
Good for them for saying something.
Yeah, I mean, they could have said something much earlier.
Apparently they knew about the bombings.
McVeigh and Nichols were eventually charged with conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction,
use of a weapon of mass destruction, destruction with the use of explosives, and eight counts
of first degree murder for the deaths of law enforcement officers that were serving the
building at the time that passed.
Did they get second degree for the kiddos?
They actually didn't charge anybody for the 160 other people specifically.
I don't remember specifically why they didn't.
I think it's just because they already knew that this would include the deaths of all
these people, not specifically each count.
Yeah, and also they made it very clear in their statements and probably with the witness
testimony or the character witnesses of the people that they were targeting law enforcement.
So maybe that's why, because it was like the most concrete evidence that everyone else
that got injured or killed that wasn't law enforcement.
They might not have had a strong enough case against them.
Just a casualty.
Yeah, exactly.
McVeigh tried to convince his defense to use the necessity defense, stating that this
bombing was a necessity after the government perpetrated Ruby Ridge and Waco.
Two years prior, yeah, it's a fucking necessity.
If it was a necessity, it would have happened right afterwards, wouldn't it?
That's what he's saying.
Like he's just saying because like in order to wake people up, like he's doing this for
the people.
Like in a second call.
It's necessary for retaliation against, you know, government because of Ruby Ridge and
Waco and yeah.
That's someone that doesn't want to take accountability for his actions.
Of course.
Opening statements began April 24th, 1997, two years after the bombing.
On June 2nd, 1997, McVeigh was found guilty on all charges and would be sentenced to death.
Good.
McVeigh was found guilty on his charges of conspiracy and manslaughter of the eight officers
that would be spared the death penalty.
So essentially he conspired, but he wasn't there to like actually go through with the
act.
Yeah.
But he knew about it and he didn't do anything about it, so it's manslaughter.
I mean association, yeah, guilty by association.
McVeigh's team tried to appeal the death penalty, but it was quickly denied.
March 8th, 1999.
McVeigh then asked the Supreme Court's for approval to have his execution be televised,
but this is also denied.
Damn.
He was like, if I'm gonna go out.
He wanted it to be televised?
Yes, he wanted it to be televised.
He appealed to the Supreme Court and said, I want my execution to be televised.
Because he didn't fucking give a shit about anything else except for himself and he wanted
to become famous.
He wanted to make a fucking statement.
Absolutely.
No, it's so stupid.
No, if anything, we should kill him with no one else in the room so that he doesn't get
any satisfaction.
He dies alone.
Exactly.
God.
Rest in distress.
But seriously, though.
Oh, fucker.
Both McVeigh and Nichols were housed in the USP Florence facility in Colorado, or what
is known as the Bombers Row as Ted Kaczynski, Louis Felipe, and Ramsay Yusef were all located
in the same facility at the same time.
Bombers Row.
I feel like that would be extra dangerous.
You're getting all of these lines together.
Put them all together.
If someone blows up the place and they're gonna take her around, what's the word?
That's actually a good point.
Fucked up.
Shit.
So McVeigh would eventually be moved to the Tare House in Indiana in 1999.
McVeigh forfeited all of his appeals and asked for his execution to be expedited.
Again, doesn't want to take accountability.
No.
If he's like, fuck it, I'm in prison, just kill me.
I might as well be dead because I'm not gonna fucking sit here for the rest of my life and
think about what I had, what I did.
Just kill me.
I don't even want to last long.
Just kill me.
I'm delivered.
Eventually the courts landed on June 11th, 2001.
McVeigh's last two meals consisted of chocolate chip ice cream.
His final words were to be the poem Evictus by William Ernest Henley.
The poem goes as such, Out of the night that covers me, black is the pit from pole to pole.
I thank whatever gods may be for my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance, my head is bloody but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears, looms but the horror of the shade.
And yet the menace of the years finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how straight the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll.
I am the master of my fate.
I am the captain of my soul."
End quote.
He thinks he's so fucking deep and he's so original.
Like he's, oh this will make people think.
Fuck off.
Like, ugh.
Ew.
On June 11th, 2001, Timothy McVeigh died by lethal injection at 7.14 AM.
McVeigh had always prided himself on perpetrating the worst attack on American soil, insisting
that he would be remembered forever for this crime.
But just three months later, after his death, the statement would ring untrue, as the 9-11
attacks would be committed, making it the worst attack on American soil to date.
I was gonna say, imagine if he lived to see 9-11, he would have been like, that's what
I'm fucking talking about, propaganda, the government, like you wouldn't have heard the
fucking end of it.
Although he would have been fucking corrected as the deadliest attacker.
So that's Timothy McVeigh, he's a fucking racist twat.
Jesus.
I'm so glad to be done with him, honestly.
That was a lot.
Jesus Christ.
It's a lot of information.
I mean, honestly, like.
There's way more information too.
Yeah, exactly.
Like I was trying to keep it pretty brief and we're like in an hour and a half.
Yeah, an hour and a 20.
But yeah, no, definitely like a lot, a lot of nature, of nurture, I keep saying nature.
Nurture.
He had a shitty childhood.
And when we say like, you know, people had a shitty childhood, sometimes it doesn't
include sexual assault or sexual abuse or physical abuse, but this is still abused nonetheless.
Yeah, he was neglected.
He was ignored by the people that are fundamentally programmed to love him and take care of him.
From a toddler, he was told that he wasn't important.
He was given the idealation that he wasn't important, that no one cared about him.
So he's growing up with this mindset of either I'm not, I'm worthless or I'm going to show
you what I'm fucking worth and what I can do and unfortunately it turned into that and
that's fucking, it just, it sucks.
I think it's interesting that he just craved to like belong or be part of like a specific
type of company.
And then for him to go into the military, I think that he realized, oh shit, I am just
as insignificant here as I was out there.
Because it's not what's around you, it's what's going on inside you.
And so he just felt like, well now that I feel like there's at least a few people that
are my peers that recognize me for what I do, there's still always a bigger entity.
There's always a bigger fish, right?
And that bigger fish was the government.
And that's, it's like one of those, you know, faceless entities that you can just be mad
at because he can't be mad at his dad or his mom or whoever.
He can be mad at that though, you know?
Yeah.
I think you're right.
I think he was probably thinking for a long time about like getting back at someone, so
to speak.
And he turned it into this giant radical like, oh, I'm gonna get back at like the biggest
thing that I can get back at.
And that's why he, I think that's why he gravitated towards, you know, hate groups and stuff like
that as well because he wanted people to think like him.
But at the end of the day, he was very isolated in his thinking because he grew up much differently
than a lot of other people.
Especially even people that we talk about in the cases, a lot of them have shitty childhoods
but very different childhoods in him, you know?
That again, there's visibly abuse, sexual abuse, things like that.
And he didn't really, he never did anything to meet the McDonald's Triad that we know
about.
Yeah, not really.
I mean, other than blowing shit up, but I mean, you know, but I don't think, I think
wetting the bed is probably a different type of abuse.
Yeah, I agree.
But also it's, you know, he wasn't, but he wasn't a serial offender.
No, he wasn't a serial offender.
He was a one time.
Yeah.
I think maybe delusional disorder.
And I'm saying that very, very lightly because I need to do research on that because I'm
going to be doing it as a mental breakdown topic.
Just giving everyone a heads up and a tease that's going to be my next mental breakdown.
Yeah, definitely narcissistic personality disorder.
And I would say that there's some, some schizo typo thing going on there.
Something on the spectrum, I think.
Yes, I agree.
Because yeah, it just happened really early.
Yeah, definitely.
Dang, that was wild.
I didn't.
I feel like, I don't know, I just feel silly at the end of episodes sometimes and I'm
like, oh yeah, I just realized that this case was.
Oh shit, they're in Oklahoma?
Yeah.
What happened in Oklahoma?
Really weird.
I thought when you said wake up, I was like, oh, I know what this is and that it wasn't.
And I was like, oh wait, no, I don't.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, yeah, that was good.
Thanks for listening to my case.
I know it was a little heavy, especially with the, you know, specific content as it pertains
to war and, you know, this racist douchebag, but it is a part of why he committed some
of these crimes.
Yeah, absolutely.
It's part of the buildup, you know.
And I guess just get used to it because next week we're bringing you something very similar.
Okay, great.
Great.
That's just funny the way that we think, but we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to do
it and this next one, it's actually a request as well.
So that's why I decided to research it.
Oh, okay.
But we will definitely shout out those during the episodes.
But actually both of my cases next week are requests.
The mental breakdown and the case are both requests.
So we're gonna be doing that.
Thank you again, Louie, for becoming a Patreon patron.
Look out for that new episode coming out on the 29th.
That is for our top tier, not top tier.
I always say tier.
I know.
Tier two and tier three Patreon members.
It is an exclusive to y'all.
We will have an episode release every 29th, so every month on the 29th.
And it's gonna be extremely just out there content.
Content that you guys wanna listen to, but content that is like so strong that we normally
wouldn't tackle it on a normal issue of the podcast.
So, and with those, it is completely ad-free and it is content warning free as well.
So it's spooky.
Yes.
And just as a teaser, I will go ahead and tease that one as well.
I am going to be doing a very bad man that had a partner, aka his, I think girlfriend
or wife, that assisted him in his crimes.
So that is a teaser, probably closer to the 29th.
We will release who we are doing for the Patreon only episode, but that's all you get
for now.
Yeah, check out DignoSignKiller.com.
There you can find merch, resources, all that good stuff.
We will also have links to all of our social media on there as well, that's gonna be at
DignoSignKiller on every platform except for Twitter, which is at KillerDiagnosis.
You can also find our email on there as well.
Make sure to buy some merch.
If you guys buy any merch, send us a picture of you guys wearing your merch.
I'd like to see that.
Yeah, hashtag.
And also make sure you get your tickets to the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival
happening in August.
It's only a couple months away.
We're so excited about it.
And that's gonna be in Austin, Texas, August 25th through the 27th.
It's gonna be a week long meet and greet with yours trulys us.
Weekend long.
Ain't no rulies.
A weekend long.
Ain't no rulies when you drink in trulys.
Ain't no loz when you got the claws.
What do we say?
Ain't no popo when you drink in topo.
Jesus.
Yeah, come out and see us.
Enjoy some trulys with us.
Some popo with us.
Some white claws only.
And yeah, that's um...
Okay, I'm hungry.
I think that's it.
Let's go.
It's late.
All right.
Love you.
KK at night.
Love you.
Bye.
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