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Hello! Hello. Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koelle. And I'm Kenna. And I'm

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tired. And I'm

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neurotic. And I'm excited to eat some

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chalupas. We found the vegetarian refried beans by the way. The dried ones.

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If you guys haven't tried the Santa Fe brand, they're dried refried beans and all you do is put them in a pot with water and like

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it takes like 25 seconds. They're really good. They're so good. And they have the vegetarian ones too.

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Yeah. And it's got all the seasoning in there too, right? Yeah.

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It does have seasoning in it and honestly, you know, we like really heavily season our food.

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So we kind of doctor it up a little bit, but it's really good.

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Just pepper it in there if you will. I know. I just rubbed it aside if I like it. It was so loud.

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I was just telling Koelle we need to make sure we're not moving around so much when we record because this

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microphone catches everything. It does.

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One of these days we're gonna have the setup where we have like the two microphones and it doesn't echo.

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I don't know how people do that, but I'm gonna have to figure it out because that's like a normal way to podcast.

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I think that weird that like weird ones. We are the weird ones that do just a single microphone.

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Even if we do a DAK live, there's three people with one microphone. So it can get a little crowded,

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but at least we all have the ability to be heard. It's true.

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I think most of their microphones come with that little mesh thing that probably cuts down on sound.

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Yeah. Well, it's really a spit guard. Yeah, exactly. And I tried to do that too. Like in the very beginning,

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I think we tried to do that and it didn't work. Yeah.

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So now we just settled on the one microphone, but it's nice and it works. I think it works.

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And we've gotten a lot of compliments on our sound quality. It's true.

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I guess it's doing the trick. The benefits of recording in a closet. Exactly.

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Check out diagnosingitkiller.com. There you will find the links to merch,

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resources, all those goodies. We have a new merch thingy that I haven't put out on Red Bubble just yet,

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but by the time this comes out, I probably will. And it is the...

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Sounds like a peach. She sounds like such a peach. She sounds like such a peach. It has the peach emoji on it.

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Yeah, I think it's adorable and it's gonna come of course with like this

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gradient

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peachy yellow background for the sticker. And then I'm gonna of course do the

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inverted so that you guys can put it on a black t-shirt or darker colored t-shirt if you want.

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And then of course just regular black and white as well.

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Yeah, absolutely. And then I actually came out with one too recently.

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I don't know if you guys have seen it yet, but it's a giant engagement ring and in the center it says

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dating with an ex and then a marriage.

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The two would quickly marry. Yeah.

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We could put the two would quickly marry on the sticker, but I feel like that wouldn't make sense on a shirt. Right.

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Yeah. Yeah. So one's wearing that. They're like, what the fuck does that mean? The two would quickly marry.

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The two would quickly marry. Oh, you just had to be there. It's an inside joke.

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Had to be there. Yeah, you guys check out our merch.

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I've actually been getting a lot of questions lately on like where you can buy merch.

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So if you don't remember, you can find our merch link on

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DiagnosingAKiller.com. Just click on merch. You can also search us on redbubble.com.

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D-A-K-P-O-D is the name of our shop. Yeah.

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But definitely suggest going through the website because it's way easier.

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If you click on merch or if you click on any design, it'll take you right to the full website.

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Sure. And if we don't have that on our link tree, then we will definitely add that redbubble link on there.

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I'm not sure it's on there, but... Yeah, I know that the website link is on there, but I don't know about redbubble.

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But yeah, definitely we'll add that so you guys can get all of the merch merch.

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Check out us on all of our social media platforms at DiagnosingAKiller,

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other than Twitter, which is at KillerDiagnosis, email us,

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LiveLaughLurg. Yes, I want that on a shirt.

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Mom was wearing her full body heave shirt and public today, you know.

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It looked good. It did look good. She came home and I was like, oh, you're wearing this shirt.

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And just lastly, before we do get started, because I know I'm really excited to hear about your case,

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but I did just want to pepper this in here that we got a new Patreon that is Louis, and I was really excited to see that.

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I think like this morning I was, I asked you, I was like, who's Louis?

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That's Louis. I was like, oh shit, okay.

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But yeah, thank you for your support.

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He does have access to the Albert Fish episode as well, so I'm excited to hear his reviews on that one.

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But yeah, I think that's all I got. Continue to send us emails and messages on Instagram and all that good stuff.

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We like to hear from you guys. Again, we're still searching for that South Dakota.

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Yeah, South Dakota. Where are you at?

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Where are you at? I haven't checked actually. We might have.

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The person that's from there listening is like, seriously, like.

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All of South Dakota has emailed us. We just haven't checked yet.

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Yes. If you're from Bermuda, because I know we got to download their messages,

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I just want a pen pal so bad. I want like 40 pen pals.

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Yeah. So just message us. I promise you'll never annoy me.

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Send me a voice memo of you talking and we'll become best friends.

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Ready? Yes.

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Is everybody ready? Hang on to your butts.

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Oh no.

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We are going to be talking about a one Timothy McVeigh.

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Ooh.

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Do you know who this is? I know who that is.

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Are you sure?

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I don't, I don't, like, I always say that.

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Like, I'm like, oh, I don't know the whole story and I couldn't tell you what he did, but I know the name for sure.

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Okay.

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I probably listened to a podcast episode about him.

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You'll probably realize.

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Okay.

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Whether or not you've heard of him.

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Oh God, is it like the Mark David Chapman thing where like the name sounds familiar and then I'm like,

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by the way, John Lennon's just-

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Is John Lennon dead?

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Is it like this or that sort of situation?

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Pretty much.

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God, I just am really bad with pop culture.

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Dead culture.

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Serial killer culture.

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Crime culture.

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Crime culture.

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Content warning, this episode depicts scenes of war, PTSD, racist groups and ideology, terrorism,

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domestic terrorism, including mass bombings.

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If this episode isn't for you, we encourage you to check out another one of our episodes.

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Remember, your mental health comes first and we love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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Damn, another doozy of a content warning.

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And sorry to say it, but my case next week also has a lot of similar content.

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So sorry to throw two of these at y'all at the same time.

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Okay.

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Timothy James McVeigh was born April 23rd, 1968 to parents Noreen-

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Noreen-

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Noreen-

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Norwegian?

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Noreen.

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Sorry, Noreen.

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And William McVeigh in Lockport, New York.

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I've never heard of Lockport.

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How many are there?

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Is it like the fancy version of Rockport?

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Maybe.

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Well, it sounds-

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Lockport sounds worse than Rockport.

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Yeah, Rockport's cool.

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Pretty sure it's somewhere around Buffalo.

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Okay.

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The couple were of Irish immigrant descent and after they got married,

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they would settle in Pendleton, New York.

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Oh, this one's outside of Buffalo, my bad.

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Okay.

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I didn't know where Buffalo was anyways.

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Buffalo, New York?

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I mean, I know of it.

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I just couldn't point it out of the map.

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Just like you know of Timothy McVeigh,

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but you probably couldn't point him out.

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Exactly.

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If we're getting the theme here.

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William worked as a, I guess like an employee for a radiator plant.

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And Noreen worked as a travel agent.

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We're sure she worked for a travel agency.

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William considered himself to be a Democrat

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and often volunteered and donated to civic causes.

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He seems like a stand-up dude, right?

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Yeah.

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Sure.

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The community of Pendleton was considered to be very conservative

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and it was an exceptionally white area at the time.

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Very rural, a lot of like farmland and stuff like that.

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The only thing I know about Pendleton is that they make whiskey there.

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Do they really?

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Pendleton whiskey.

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Oh.

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I've seen it before with my own eyes.

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I've seen it.

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I've seen it.

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I've seen it.

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I'll be said it too.

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I've seen it.

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Tim had an older sister named Patricia,

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who was two years old when her little brother came along,

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when Tim came along.

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Okay.

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Patricia.

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Honey, can you give me down please?

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I'm trying to be funny.

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I'm going to be on the phone here.

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Six years later, the couple would welcome their third child, Jennifer,

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who Tim adored.

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He was always the older protective brother and he doted on her like a little baby doll.

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Aww.

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Isn't that sweet?

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Good.

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Because he would have been six by the time she was born, you know?

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Yeah, that's cute.

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When Tim was just 10 years old,

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his parents would go through a pretty rough divorce.

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Noreen had become disenchanted with William as she claimed that he was,

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quote, too domesticated for her.

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Like he's not like wild enough?

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Yeah.

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Like she wants him to be like feral or what?

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Yeah.

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No, I'm sorry.

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You're more like a house cat.

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I'm looking for a fucking alley cat.

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He was a Democrat.

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You know what I mean?

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And she was like, ew.

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Ew.

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You're not radical enough for me.

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Damn, okay.

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Noreen was used to going out to clubs and bars, sometimes coming home late at night.

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And a friend of hers had said that, quote,

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Bill's idea of a Friday night was to have pizza, watch a ball game,

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and water his plants, end quote.

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That sounds like an amazing Friday night.

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I know.

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Also, I know plenty of Democrats that go out to bars.

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So what's the fucking point about that?

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He's just too domesticated.

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Yeah.

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He likes watching ball games.

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Like it's like what?

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So do I, motherfucker.

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Yeah.

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So I guess that's not Noreen's idea of like a good partner.

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It kind of sounds like she just didn't really want to be married or like tied down or,

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you know, settled.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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She would actually just pack up and leave the kids one day,

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coming back a few days later to claim her children.

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So those couple days that she was gone,

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she was probably on a fucking bender, whether it was like drinking or with a guy.

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Yeah, or something.

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Damn savage.

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The two girls would move in with their mother while Tim and William were left to the family home.

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She doesn't want any guys.

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She's like, fuck men, except for the ones that aren't married to me.

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So Tim was always very sour about this situation because he had insisted that Noreen had said,

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like, pick which parent you're going with.

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Oh, hell no.

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Yeah.

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And keep in mind that would have made Jennifer four.

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Four years old.

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Like, do you want to go with mommy or you want to go with daddy?

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Yeah, it's like they both squat down and see who she runs to, like those videos.

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Come on, come on, come on, come on.

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I don't fucking snack in my hand.

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Maybe you should come to me.

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Fucked up.

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Oh, that is fucked up.

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Like, we always say this, but don't, don't bring children into adult problems, right?

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Like, I hate that.

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So seemingly out of spite, Tim chose to live with his father because he couldn't stand the fact that his mother made the kids choose.

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I mean, fuck, I don't blame him.

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He's like, I don't want to live with you.

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You're a bitch.

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I don't want to go to the, I can't go to the bars with you.

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I'd rather stay at home and eat pizza and watch baseball with dad.

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And water the plants.

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Yeah.

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Fuck.

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So this kind of worked for a little bit, but William worked very long hours at the radiator plant and would sometimes work over

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hours, like overnight hours.

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Oh.

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00:10:58,280 --> 00:10:59,800
So he was almost never home.

243
00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,280
So he often left Tim to entertain himself.

244
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:02,840
Okay.

245
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:10,680
Tim would later say about this isolation, quote, I can't attribute anything I am now to any lack of my parents' presence in the home.

246
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:15,400
But I do say that I have very few memories of interactions with my parents, end quote.

247
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,960
Okay, that's like really fucking sad.

248
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:18,680
Just get the sad.

249
00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,720
Mom was always out, like fucking drinking the night away.

250
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,480
Dad's involved in the TV.

251
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:24,280
Yeah.

252
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:25,320
Watering his plants.

253
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:26,440
I'm over here by my name.

254
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,480
So probably left my own devices starting fires, perhaps.

255
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:30,200
Maybe.

256
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:35,240
And damn, that really, I was going to say shits and it's really shitty.

257
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:36,520
And that really sucks at the same time.

258
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:37,240
That really sucks.

259
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,920
That's what I was going to say.

260
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:39,960
That really shit.

261
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:40,920
That really does suck though.

262
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,480
And honestly, like a whole lot of nurture right there.

263
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,560
Like I don't really see a whole lot of nature just yet.

264
00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:45,800
No.

265
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,920
Like most kids, Tim became passionate about computers and the internet.

266
00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,040
He loved to sit at the computer and would practice hacking.

267
00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:58,520
And even at one point, he actually broke into a Department of Defense computer.

268
00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:01,240
Like he was really good at it.

269
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:01,800
From his own?

270
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:02,600
From his own.

271
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:03,320
Yeah.

272
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,920
At what age was this?

273
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:09,640
He would have been, well, this is kind of smack.

274
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,040
This is kind of in his teens.

275
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,080
So like 13, 14, 15.

276
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:13,800
Okay, but still.

277
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:14,280
Still.

278
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,440
His brain isn't fully developed yet and he's hacking into fucking confidential,

279
00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,040
like what's it called, compromised information?

280
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:22,520
Yeah.

281
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:22,920
Compromised.

282
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:23,320
No.

283
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:24,520
Just confidential information.

284
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,080
No, I'm thinking of something else.

285
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:27,880
I don't know.

286
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:28,360
Hello.

287
00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:32,040
He excelled in computer class and he was super knowledgeable about programming.

288
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,480
This would yield to Tim many accolades in high school.

289
00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,040
And of course, being a computer geek didn't help the already tall, scrawny looking kid.

290
00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:40,920
Oh no.

291
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,480
Privilege, privilege is what I've learned.

292
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:44,280
Privilege.

293
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,480
Thank you.

294
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:46,520
It was privilege.

295
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:47,000
Privilege.

296
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:47,640
Privilege.

297
00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:48,040
Privilege.

298
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:48,520
Privilege.

299
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:49,480
It was privilege information.

300
00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:50,600
Go ahead.

301
00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:58,280
Although his friends would say that Tim took this in stride, he was often like joked about

302
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,200
being very lanky and clumsy.

303
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,000
Aw.

304
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,560
Because he was just this wiry kid, right?

305
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:04,840
Like, gumby or something.

306
00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,040
It's like me when I was younger.

307
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:10,760
I was really tall and thin and had long ass legs and I was called chicken legs and I was in middle school.

308
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,480
It's like you're a great dane and like you think you're a to-a-wa, but you're actually a great dane.

309
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,080
You know, you think you're a lap dog.

310
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:17,640
So funny.

311
00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,200
His mother would actually rarely spend any length of time with Tim.

312
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,320
Sometimes she would drop the girls off every once in a while so that the three could spend time together,

313
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,400
but barely was she around herself.

314
00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,240
So she would just pull up and just kick the girls out of the car and then leave.

315
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:34,520
Like, she wouldn't say hi to Tim.

316
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:34,840
Oh my god.

317
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,240
Ew.

318
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:41,080
In fact, one of Tim's friends said that she thought that Tim's mother was actually dead,

319
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:45,400
since Tim only ever spoke highly about his father and never spoke about his mother.

320
00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,000
Well, what do you have to say about his mom?

321
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,760
I'm sorry, but I don't even know his mom.

322
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,960
Well, yeah, and he's probably embarrassed or ashamed.

323
00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,240
He's like, my mom left me.

324
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,320
Like, I've, you know, why are you going to just tell people that?

325
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,240
It's easier to just be like, oh, my mom's not in the picture.

326
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:57,480
Yeah.

327
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,560
And saying like, oh, my mom decided that she didn't want to be with my mundane dad.

328
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:04,120
My soup's cash dad.

329
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:07,240
Ooh, I forgot about that for merch.

330
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:08,440
Soup's cash would be great.

331
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,920
I don't even know how you would spell cash.

332
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:11,880
Just CAS.

333
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,880
I feel like it'd be like CASZ.

334
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:14,360
Cash.

335
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,160
Cash.

336
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:16,120
Cash.

337
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,000
I don't know.

338
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:17,880
Maybe with like an X.

339
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:19,240
Cax.

340
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:20,840
Cax.

341
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:21,080
Cax.

342
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:21,560
Cax.

343
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:23,480
Fucking soup.

344
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,040
Cax.

345
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,200
No, he's guilty as fuck, but he got a big ass can.

346
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,760
I think I said that so nonchalantly in my, what I was actually doing in the case.

347
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:35,720
I was like, yeah.

348
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,360
And he said he was like super well endowed, which like, how the fuck do you know that?

349
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:38,920
But still.

350
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:41,800
What did you say?

351
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:42,920
He's testifying against him.

352
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,200
He's like, yo, you got a big dick.

353
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,200
Big old dick.

354
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:47,160
How do you do it, man?

355
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:47,800
How you do it?

356
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:50,920
God, it's terrible.

357
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:51,640
Oh gosh.

358
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:52,920
He's testing against him.

359
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,360
And he's like hyping him up.

360
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,280
Not like taking him to jail, but like taking him to jail for that dick.

361
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,120
That dick illegal.

362
00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:03,160
It's so stupid.

363
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:06,040
Sorry, mom.

364
00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,160
No wonder what's your face.

365
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:10,680
Joyce was all about him.

366
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:12,920
Joyce, yeah.

367
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,440
She's like, I heard some.

368
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:14,600
Joyce was hypnotized.

369
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,440
I've heard some stories and let me just shoot my shot.

370
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:20,760
Oh shit.

371
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,960
So Tim around this time, of course, wished to invite his friends over like anyone else in

372
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:26,840
high school.

373
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:32,120
But the house was in a great state because it simply was Tim and William together,

374
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,960
but most of the time it was just him.

375
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,480
Well, yeah, and William's gone all the time.

376
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,320
So he's not, I mean, he works a shitload.

377
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,360
So he's probably not worried about cleaning and Tim is a teenager.

378
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:40,840
Yeah, he's so child.

379
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:45,080
So he's not going to be like, it's not going to be like crystal clear or crystal clean

380
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:45,800
when they come in.

381
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,440
So he did spend a lot of time at friends' houses instead.

382
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,360
He was sometimes described as withdrawn, but others said that he was very outgoing.

383
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,880
So I guess it's just dependent on if you were a friend or not.

384
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:58,840
Yeah, like who he knew.

385
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:04,520
Tim was often bullied and would sometimes fantasize about harming the bullies at school.

386
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:06,760
We always hear that, right?

387
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:08,520
Who doesn't though?

388
00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,200
I mean, I got bullied in high school and I was like,

389
00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,520
man, I just want to like shove my fists through her skull, you know, like that.

390
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,960
Because it's just, I mean, not clearly there's a point.

391
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,800
Yeah, I was going to say, you weren't like, let me go get an AR-15 and murder them.

392
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,960
You were like, well, it'd be nice if they're in grown toenails, verbally bad.

393
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,000
I hope they get food poisoning.

394
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,400
I hope you stub your toe every day of the week.

395
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:37,800
So this would actually become a bigger fantasy of Tim's after his grandfather introduced him to guns.

396
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:43,800
Hunting was prevalent in the area and in an effort to connect further with his family,

397
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,160
anybody in his family really, Tim asked to accompany his grandfather on several hunting trips.

398
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:49,960
Okay.

399
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,640
Of course, what grandfather doesn't want to teach their grandchild how to hunt to connect,

400
00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,520
especially when he sees that Tim is missing half of his family and the one family member

401
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,440
that he is living with is not really home.

402
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,480
Yeah, that's always really shitty because it's like, I'm trying to introduce you to something

403
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:11,080
that we can bond over, something that some families think are very important, but it's

404
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:16,280
unfortunate that sometimes it gets introduced to a child that has been neglected, ignored,

405
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,280
and or has a mental illness that no one has recognized because they don't pay attention to him.

406
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:26,200
Because then it becomes a way of dealing with your problems and not a hobby or a sport for game

407
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,840
or whatever.

408
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:27,320
Right.

409
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,840
And I bet that he feels like, well, at least he's getting some outside time.

410
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,680
A kid that's always on the computer, it's nice to be out in nature and stuff.

411
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:35,320
Right.

412
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:39,960
It's just, it's a hard situation because it's not, it's not anybody's fault at that point,

413
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:40,840
I feel like.

414
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,760
I mean, except for the parents, obviously, that are ignoring him.

415
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:42,920
Yeah.

416
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:48,280
But Tim, of course, found guns fascinating at this point and he soon began talking about

417
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,680
guns at school, maybe in an effort to seem like more tough or more powerful.

418
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,160
And he had actually on several occasions brought guns to school to show his friends.

419
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,760
And who is just like watching this happen and not reporting it?

420
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,120
Like even the kids, they weren't like,

421
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:05,800
hey, by the way.

422
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:06,440
Right.

423
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,560
Oh, my God, a gun.

424
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:07,800
Yeah.

425
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:13,480
It was like, nobody saw, nobody, everybody came, everybody saw and, you know, didn't say anything.

426
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,760
Or it's like, you know, some of those kids came home and they were like,

427
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,440
hey, someone saw how to gun at school today.

428
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,240
The parents weren't like, wait, who had a gun at school?

429
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:22,680
We need to report this.

430
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:23,160
I don't know.

431
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,760
Unless they were scared of Tim.

432
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:25,640
Oh, no, man.

433
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:25,880
You know.

434
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,680
But then he, you said he had like a number of friends that said he was like really

435
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:29,560
outgoing and really nice.

436
00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,400
Wouldn't they be like the nice people to, I don't know.

437
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:34,120
I don't know.

438
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,480
I mean, who knows what his friends were like in high school.

439
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:37,960
And you can never really.

440
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,200
You could have just been like the rebellious kids or something.

441
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:40,840
Yeah.

442
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,800
You can't really rely on kids to like do the right thing all the time.

443
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:43,960
Yeah.

444
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,440
It sounds bad, but teach your kids better is my point.

445
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,840
Every time I say something like this, teach your kids better.

446
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,680
If someone brings a gun to school and shows your kid,

447
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,640
your kid better fucking tell the principal or someone.

448
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,360
If a kid brings an animal to school, you shouldn't even fucking touch it.

449
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:59,160
There was that bat, rabies bat that that kid brought on.

450
00:18:59,160 --> 00:18:59,480
No.

451
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:00,120
One rose.

452
00:19:00,120 --> 00:19:02,360
When I was in elementary school, there was a kid that brought

453
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:05,720
a bat that he found on the ground while he walked the bus stop.

454
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,080
At your school?

455
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:07,640
Yes.

456
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:08,440
What the hell?

457
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,240
In elementary school.

458
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,120
And he brought a bat that he just found on the ground,

459
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:16,280
onto the school bus, and all the kids touched it, and they all had to get rabies shots.

460
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:17,240
Oh my God.

461
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:18,040
Ew.

462
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,480
Because it was still alive.

463
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,600
They were like, there's no reason why a bat should just be laying on the ground in the middle of the day.

464
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:23,560
Oh, that's terrible.

465
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:24,040
Yeah.

466
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,560
Well, not in the middle of the day, but yeah.

467
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,040
You know.

468
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,000
Isn't that an internal.

469
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:27,640
It's not an internal.

470
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,080
So in the day at all.

471
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,000
Mom couldn't remember if I rode the bus that day.

472
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:31,720
I'm pretty sure.

473
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,320
She was like, did you ride the bus that day?

474
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,040
No, I don't remember seeing a bat.

475
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,480
I feel like I remember seeing a bat.

476
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,480
I feel like that's something that you wouldn't forget.

477
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:39,720
Yeah.

478
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,480
I'm assuming that everybody understands that I don't mean a baseball bat at this point because I can't see a bat.

479
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,280
Get a rabies shot from handling a bat.

480
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:51,080
Oh gosh.

481
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:59,720
So Tim around this time was talking about how one of his desires or his dreams were to open up a gun shop one day.

482
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,160
It's like, I'm gonna open up a gun shop.

483
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:01,880
Okay.

484
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,080
That's what he sounds like in my mind.

485
00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,760
I have no idea what he what he sounds like.

486
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,320
He considered guns to be the greatest equalizers.

487
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,840
He had always said that he's like, gun is like the gun is the greatest equalizer.

488
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,960
Like because he was this scrawny, lanky little shit, you know.

489
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,040
I feel like we're doing a case on the same person.

490
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:19,400
You better not.

491
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,120
It's not.

492
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,280
But it sounds very similar to my case.

493
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:22,840
Oh gosh.

494
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,560
Around this time, he also began to read survivalist handbooks and became obsessed with stockpiling,

495
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,160
canned food and water.

496
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:31,720
Okay.

497
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,120
And where are his parents during all of this?

498
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,040
I guess his dad's at work and his mom's gone.

499
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:36,360
Yeah.

500
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:43,160
God, like, it just always amazes me when kids have so much time to do things like this.

501
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,680
Like they didn't notice this.

502
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,960
You're telling me his dad didn't notice this stockpiling because he's not paying attention to it.

503
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:48,680
Because he's not paying attention?

504
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,560
Well, he's not home.

505
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:49,880
Yeah.

506
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:50,440
You know what I mean?

507
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,240
That's awful.

508
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,560
And not only that, but you have to think about his mentality.

509
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,560
Like his mentality right now is that he can only survive on his own.

510
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:58,760
Yeah.

511
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,600
So it's being instilled in him at a really young age that he needs to provide his own food,

512
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,200
his own water, his own safety.

513
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:04,840
Yeah.

514
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:06,200
Because he didn't get that.

515
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,520
And I don't need to say anything negative about William, is the dad?

516
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:10,920
William.

517
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:11,480
About William.

518
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:12,680
Because I know that you have to work.

519
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,920
Like it's not feasible to not work or to not, you know, he probably didn't have a choice the hours that he worked.

520
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:17,160
Yeah.

521
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,400
But like, talk to your fucking kids, you know?

522
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,400
Like make sure that they feel loved and safe and cared for and not ignored.

523
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:23,720
Right.

524
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:28,120
So Tim also became very politically like forward.

525
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:33,240
He would often speak about how one day he wanted another war to happen or would happen.

526
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:38,120
And that he would essentially be prepared as a survivalist like for this combat.

527
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:38,600
Yeah.

528
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:45,480
So he's instilled at like, again, at 14, 15 years old that he must protect himself.

529
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:51,720
And in a weird way, I feel like it's almost paranoia at this point.

530
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,320
Well, I think that's a good point.

531
00:21:53,320 --> 00:22:00,280
Well, it's also kind of delusional because when are you going to be in combat?

532
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,200
Are you planning on joining the military?

533
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,360
Because if not, most likely won't be in combat in your life.

534
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,600
So it's not logically thinking, I want to put my best foot forward.

535
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,040
I want to serve my country.

536
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:14,120
It's we're going to fucking war.

537
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,480
And I'm going to be the one that is smart and has all this shit.

538
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:17,800
Exactly.

539
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,000
It's a delusion.

540
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:24,200
So Tim felt that he didn't really belong or feel that he had a very big sense of camaraderie

541
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,400
around his peers.

542
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,560
And then he essentially couldn't be, couldn't wait to be old enough to join the military.

543
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,320
That's something that he wanted to do.

544
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,480
A lot of Tim's friends felt that the divorce had honestly really messed him up at this point,

545
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,320
which we kind of just talked about, that he didn't really feel like he was a part of anything.

546
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:44,040
And then he kind of was looking to survive on his own or how he can accomplish that.

547
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,200
And that sucks too, because it's making it look like

548
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,080
like divorced parents can't raise great children.

549
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,800
And it's like people can be, don't say in a fucking marriage if you're not happy,

550
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,000
but do it the right way.

551
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,080
Don't be like, what's your face that I can't pronounce her name and then leave

552
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,480
and just drop the kids off without even saying hi to your third kid?

553
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,320
Like that's not fucking cool.

554
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:03,960
Yeah.

555
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,520
Well, I'm sure Tim also at the same time was like, fuck you, mom.

556
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,680
Yeah, but there's a reason why he thinks that.

557
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,160
Yeah.

558
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,400
So Tim was an exceptionally bright student as we normally see.

559
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:18,680
Later on, he would be assessed, excuse me, assessed and his IQ was actually at a 126.

560
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:19,160
Damn.

561
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,040
So he was pretty smart.

562
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:26,120
But this would not stop Tim from only doing the bare minimum at school and I reflected poorly in his

563
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,840
grades or reflected in his grades.

564
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:29,640
They were poor.

565
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,000
He probably thought that he could just wing it and not have to study because he's smart.

566
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:33,400
Yeah.

567
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,080
And then just didn't learn the material.

568
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,440
It's like, yeah, you can be smart, but you got to know what the fucking test is over.

569
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,880
Yeah, prove to me that you're smart.

570
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:40,360
Yeah.

571
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:45,000
Tim was able to have at least one successful semi-romantic relationship.

572
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,280
It wouldn't last very long though.

573
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:52,680
So we only essentially ever had reports of a girl that maybe they hold hands in between classes or

574
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,840
some shit, but they didn't.

575
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,520
From everyone else's perspective and understanding, it didn't seem like it was a sexual relationship.

576
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:01,160
I'll just say that.

577
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:01,640
Okay.

578
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,400
So it was surprising that Tim would put on his senior note that he was not a very successful

579
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:13,560
girl, but it was something that Tim would put on his senior notes underneath his photo under his

580
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:19,880
future plans as quote, take it as it comes, buy a Lamborghini, California girls, end quote.

581
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:26,360
He was just a big fan of like Katy Perry and she thought, yeah, I didn't come out for like years later.

582
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:33,880
But they thought that that was strange because he was never really this like womanizer trying to get it girls.

583
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:34,360
Yeah.

584
00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:35,720
Very strange.

585
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,560
That's probably a delusion.

586
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,360
Like once I get to this age, I'm just going to be this amazing mastermind.

587
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:47,240
It really kind of seems like he's never, of course, never been taught this, but the mentality is like,

588
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,640
I don't really have to work hard.

589
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,320
I thought he doesn't have to work hard, but I don't think he realizes that you have to work hard to get

590
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:53,880
things like that.

591
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,160
He just wants it, right?

592
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,440
Or he thinks he's going to have it.

593
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320
So he's kind of like, he's not really, he's jumping a lot of steps.

594
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,240
For me, it sounded satirical.

595
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,280
It sounded sarcastic.

596
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:02,760
Okay.

597
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:08,360
Like it was like, oh, I guess like I'm just going to grow up in Bialymporghini and have all these women like, you know.

598
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,000
So he's like, he's saying it like he would never happen.

599
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:11,320
Yeah.

600
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,520
Or that's what like society expects of me type shit.

601
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,360
You know, like I'm just going to go be the CEO of a company.

602
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:19,640
Yeah.

603
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,480
Might as well follow in the path that they want me to.

604
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:21,720
Yeah.

605
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,400
Spare a world, just hack into their computer.

606
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:24,680
I'll just do everything I want.

607
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:25,480
Spare a world.

608
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,600
It's like that 90s shit where you see it like in a movie and it's just I'm in.

609
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,160
Yes.

610
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,240
You have to think the glasses, like the glasses inside.

611
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:33,960
Yeah.

612
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:39,160
Just thinking of a, when you were talking about Lyle Menendez and oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you.

613
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,160
So I saw, I know you have to say something too.

614
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,160
I saw a photo of Lyle and Eric Menendez.

615
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:48,520
I don't know if you have seen this photo, but they went to an NBA game like after they killed their parents and before they got caught.

616
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:54,360
And there's a photo of them like the guy is like, it's like a basketball photo and it's on a fucking card.

617
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,480
Like a, what's it called?

618
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:56,200
Copy?

619
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,640
No, like a player's card, like a, like a collectible card.

620
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:00,280
What is it called?

621
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:01,400
Yeah, like a collectible card.

622
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,280
Yeah, but they're in the background of it on the fucking card.

623
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:04,760
What?

624
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,080
No, they didn't go to an NBA game that night.

625
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,520
Not that night, but before they got caught.

626
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,760
They, it was with, what, they were, oh, oh, oh, like, I know what you mean.

627
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Not that night, but before they got found out that they did it.

628
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,600
Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.

629
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,600
For some reason I thought it was, you were essentially saying it was like their alibi or some shit.

630
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:23,640
No, no, no, no.

631
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:24,520
Yeah, look, I just looked it up.

632
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,880
It's Mark Jackson and look there they are in the background.

633
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:28,920
That's crazy.

634
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:35,480
And it's on a card and this card has since been like super famous.

635
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,360
Like they sell for like, I mean, $150 because the Menendez was on it.

636
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:41,720
This is creepy.

637
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:47,560
So yeah, for all of you listeners out there, I don't know if anybody's been following this or not,

638
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:55,880
but I think it's Peacock that did a documentary about Newfound Evidence in the Menendez trial.

639
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,680
Oh yeah. Or yeah, Newfound Evidence.

640
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:04,040
So under habeas corpus, they're claiming that they are wrongfully imprisoned because

641
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:10,120
the second trial that they had, so the first trial that they had was hung jury and they did not

642
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:10,920
come to a consensus.

643
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:17,240
They retried it, but they retried it without the abuse allegations that, you know, that they

644
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:23,000
had said that their father, Jose Menendez, one of the murder victims, was sexually assaulting the boys

645
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,560
or had in the past and that they were very afraid that now that they were older,

646
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,760
Jose was going to have them hurt or murdered or put away in asylums.

647
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,360
It only stopped like what, two or three weeks before the killings.

648
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:43,560
And so now they're going to reintroduce that evidence, but since then, one of the members of

649
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:49,960
Minuto, which is a boy band back then, who was under RCA records, which is where Jose Menendez

650
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:56,600
worked or was the CEO or the head of the company or whatever, that this band member of Minuto has

651
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,560
claimed that he was sexually assaulted or raped by Jose Menendez.

652
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:02,680
Yeah, you told me that.

653
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,800
And it was during this time that it would have been around this time that the boys were also

654
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:08,840
experiencing abuse.

655
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,120
So that and the second piece of evidence that they want to introduce is that Eric was writing

656
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:23,080
his cousin or him and Lyle's cousin like six to nine months before the crimes were perpetrated.

657
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaking about the abuse, like essentially saying to this cousin,

658
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,880
you know, you know how my dad is, like essentially, you know what he did or whatever.

659
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,240
And I don't know if it explicitly says that or not because it's all going to come out on the

660
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,120
documentary.

661
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:43,480
But they've already filed for a retrial under habeas corbis, meaning that the boys are falsely

662
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,840
imprisoned because none of this evidence was available at the time.

663
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:47,960
So wild.

664
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,640
Honestly, like, you know, listeners, if you haven't heard that episode, definitely go back and listen.

665
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,560
But I cried like during that episode.

666
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,040
Like I was so emotional about it because it's so hard.

667
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,840
Like you want to feel bad for the parents and you want to feel bad for the, you know,

668
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:02,040
brothers.

669
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,640
And God, it just sucks.

670
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,320
Like I truly, truly believe that it was self-defense after the fact.

671
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,680
Like that's my opinion and people have different opinions, whatever.

672
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:15,240
But I will say that now with that new evidence, it's really, I don't want to say exciting,

673
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,160
but it's really kind of telling.

674
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:17,880
It is telling.

675
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:22,360
And especially now it's not just, okay, the boys were just trying to like save their asses,

676
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,120
and that's why they just threw that information in there.

677
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:29,160
No, now it's two, if not one, because the cousins since passed away, correct?

678
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:29,480
Yes.

679
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:30,200
The cousin.

680
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,680
Yeah, two people that have allegedly new victims, one of them can potentially testify.

681
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:35,160
Yes.

682
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,120
Yeah, exactly.

683
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,720
And the reason that they didn't, because that was my first question was, well,

684
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,880
if they had this letter, why would they not?

685
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,160
Yeah, they didn't.

686
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,800
They didn't.

687
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:49,080
It was only recently found within the last year or so, because the cousin actually passed away

688
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,760
a month after he would receive the letter.

689
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:55,640
So it was just put into his effects and given to another family member and buried underneath

690
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:56,520
all this stuff.

691
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,240
And so they were going through, yeah.

692
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,400
I bet Eric, when Eric heard that letter was surfaced, he was like, oh, I bet he lost his

693
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:03,800
shit.

694
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:04,360
Yeah.

695
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,040
And they're both like married now, right?

696
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:06,760
They're both married.

697
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:07,560
Yeah, successfully.

698
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:13,480
One is Tammy, I think was the car sheer or something, right?

699
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:13,960
Yeah.

700
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,760
I think that's, I don't want to speak if that's Lyle or Eric's wife, but yeah, one of them

701
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,680
has been married since the trial, essentially, or afterwards.

702
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,280
I know we kind of talked about this the other night and we'd like to hear your guys' opinions

703
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:26,920
as well.

704
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,560
But honestly, like I kind of told Koel the other night, I won't lose any sleep if they

705
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,600
get out on probation parole or just get out.

706
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,840
I definitely think it was an isolated event.

707
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,000
I do not think they're a danger to society.

708
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:45,800
I think they have had a lot of time to kind of grasp and think about what happened.

709
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,720
Definitely don't agree with what they did.

710
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:53,720
However, I think that they were just as, I think they were victims in and itself as

711
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:54,840
well as the parents.

712
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:55,080
Yeah.

713
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,840
I mean, they were 18 and 21.

714
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Yeah.

715
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,120
They were kids.

716
00:30:58,120 --> 00:30:58,680
Like, they're children.

717
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,600
I don't say that about a lot of people that are in prison that I wouldn't mind if they

718
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,000
got out.

719
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,760
But I definitely, I mean, it just, it was just spiraling.

720
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,640
In my head yesterday about how we've never seen anything like that in our lifetime.

721
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:12,280
Yeah.

722
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:20,280
And if the, if they were to have a retrial and it were to result in a verdict of manslaughter,

723
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,800
they could get time served and just be out.

724
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:24,120
Yeah.

725
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:24,840
They definitely could.

726
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,480
It's been 25 years or something, no longer than that.

727
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,120
But yeah, definitely go listen to that case if you haven't.

728
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,640
If you're like, what the fuck are they talking about?

729
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:32,360
Go listen to Lyle.

730
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,640
It's been 40 years actually.

731
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,120
40 years.

732
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:34,520
Oh, wow.

733
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:34,760
Yeah.

734
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,280
Lyle and Eric Menendez.

735
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,440
They're brothers and we did a case on them.

736
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,560
Coel did a great job on their case a couple months back.

737
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,520
So go find it and we'll continue with this one.

738
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:46,520
Sorry, y'all.

739
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:53,720
So we were, where we left off was Tim had put in his senior notes, the Lamborghini California

740
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,120
girls, that's what got into it was the whole, our impression of Jose Menendez.

741
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,520
No, that's what I was going to say was when he wanted to talk to his dad, he was like,

742
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:01,480
make an appointment.

743
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,200
Make an appointment.

744
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,320
That's what I was going to say.

745
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,440
Make an appointment.

746
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,920
It's a real world, you can't just go to the doctor when you need to.

747
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:13,880
So Tim had written, you know, continuing this senior year book underneath after high school,

748
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,560
like what you're going to do after high school, Tim put quote, in and out of work,

749
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,800
increasingly obsessed with guns and quote.

750
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,280
Increasingly obsessed with guns.

751
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,200
Increasingly obsessed with guns.

752
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,400
Oh my God.

753
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,320
I was doing that bonus episode with Lady the other day I told you and we were talking about

754
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:31,400
like people that write letters to serial killers and stuff.

755
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,360
The episodes are already out if you want to listen, but they were talking about

756
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,160
how, oh, at one point they had sent in like something like that to a bunch of serial killers.

757
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,240
Like, my favorite color is blank.

758
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,440
Like my favorite animal is blank.

759
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,880
My favorite hobby is blank.

760
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,400
My person I admire is yeah, and Richard Ramirez filled one out.

761
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,040
No, he did not.

762
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:48,600
I swear to God.

763
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,440
I forgot to tell you.

764
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,240
For Lady?

765
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Yes.

766
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,440
What the fuck?

767
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,360
No, no, no, no, they didn't do it.

768
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:55,960
Someone had done it in the past.

769
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,040
I was like, why are you just telling me this?

770
00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,720
You think Richard Ramirez filled one out?

771
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:00,200
He's dead.

772
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,960
I know he's dead, but I don't know.

773
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,800
It was just, he's John Lennon dead?

774
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,440
Oh, someone else in the past had sent these in and Lady was reading one.

775
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:14,040
But Richard Ramirez filled one out and it said, I think it said like the person I admire most is

776
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,440
or whatever, like my idols and he put Jack the Ripper.

777
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,400
I'm like, okay.

778
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,840
And then at the very end, I'm pretty sure they put like my favorite art.

779
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,640
One thing I would do for the rest of my life or whatever it was and he put like

780
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,240
sex drugs and rock and roll.

781
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:25,880
Those people.

782
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,200
Yeah.

783
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,240
Stupid like that.

784
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:28,680
He's such a dick or was.

785
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:29,480
He was such a dick.

786
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,680
Like such a troll.

787
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:31,880
Like, yeah, he was a troll.

788
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,720
Remember, I showed you those videos of him like being interviewed and I think I mentioned it in

789
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:43,880
the episode itself where he just has this face like he wants to, he's portraying someone who's

790
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:44,440
demented.

791
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,960
He's not actually demented.

792
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:46,520
Yeah.

793
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:51,480
And it's very eerie to watch because I don't know what's worse.

794
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:56,200
I don't know what's worse that you're actually demented or you portray like you want someone to

795
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:57,080
think you are.

796
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,280
Just to scare people.

797
00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:59,320
Yeah, exactly.

798
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Yeah, I actually found it really quick.

799
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,080
I just wanted to read this last part.

800
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,720
My biggest regret not carrying a gun at all times.

801
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,200
It sounds like this guy.

802
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,520
BTK leaving the needle nose pliers behind.

803
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,840
Favorite meals, women's feet.

804
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,920
I think in the lady episode I was like, all right, Quentin Tarantino.

805
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,280
All right, Tarantino.

806
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,720
Oh, it's so stupid.

807
00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:24,280
And then yeah, childhood heroes, Jack the Ripper.

808
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,080
So.

809
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,200
Childhood heroes?

810
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:26,840
Yes.

811
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:27,880
He should have put his cousin.

812
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,760
That would be too real.

813
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,640
Or his uncle.

814
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:30,120
Here it is.

815
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,000
Ideal evening, full moon, sex and drugs all night.

816
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:34,520
Full moon?

817
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:36,760
He has to become a werewolf first.

818
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:37,640
Yeah, for sure.

819
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,120
Anyway, you can listen to more about that on the lady episode.

820
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:40,360
Go ahead.

821
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:41,720
No worries.

822
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,120
So yeah, increasingly obsessed with guns.

823
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,280
It kind of reminded me of Randy Starr.

824
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,440
When he would say things like that just to.

825
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:49,800
Wow, people.

826
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:57,160
Like when he would write those essays and it would be about someone who would die at the end.

827
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:57,240
Yeah.

828
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:58,920
And he was just crying out for attention.

829
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,600
Well, yeah, you can't tell if it's like a cry for attention or like a shock factor thing either.

830
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:02,760
Right.

831
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,160
It's like, oh, if they read this, they're going to be like, what the fuck?

832
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,800
Or it's going to be like, oh, maybe this will get me like the attention that I need.

833
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,320
I'm sure Timothy McVeigh in high school was definitely one of those people that you.

834
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,440
We're like, at least I was nice to you.

835
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,360
Remember I was nice to you, you know.

836
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:16,600
Yeah.

837
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,440
It's like fucking, what's his name?

838
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,680
I had someone like that in my high school and I was always so nice to him and all my friends were

839
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:26,840
assholes to him and I was so nice to him.

840
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,200
I worked with somebody like that too.

841
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:29,560
So it was terrifying.

842
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,040
That's not funny, sorry.

843
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:38,760
So underneath organized activities, he would choose not to put track and field in his activities or

844
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:47,720
organizations, but instead chose to put quote, staying away from school, losing sleep, finding it in school, and end quote.

845
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,000
Finding sleep in school, like sleeping through my classes?

846
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,520
Like I'm sleeping through my classes, which was hilarious because everybody's like, well,

847
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,320
no, he doesn't sleep through his classes.

848
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,600
He doesn't skip school.

849
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,880
You're a deep bro.

850
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:00,680
Yeah.

851
00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:05,960
Again, it's just Tim trying to be edgy, I guess.

852
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:13,160
So Tim would eventually graduate in 1986 and around this time, employment at auto and steel

853
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:14,840
industries began to decline.

854
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,520
Layoffs and downsizing, so on and so forth.

855
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,640
But Tim's father was struggling to make ends meet.

856
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:27,480
So just do through labor cuts and hours, things like that.

857
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:28,760
Oh, so now he's going to be home more.

858
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,320
So now he's going to pay attention to now he's got to pay attention.

859
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:37,800
Tim remembered that quote, you might as well just get a job at the local McDonald's for six an hour, end quote.

860
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:38,840
He said that to his dad.

861
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,520
He said that just in general about the times like you might as well just go work at McDonald's.

862
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:44,680
Well, it's not his living.

863
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,960
This would only fuel Tim's idea of fighting the bigger bully, which was the government at this point.

864
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:51,160
Okay.

865
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,600
Tim also began to read the Turner Diaries and for anybody that doesn't know what the Turner Diaries

866
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:57,800
is, I didn't.

867
00:36:57,800 --> 00:36:58,600
So I googled it.

868
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:04,440
It was a book that came out in 1978 and was a novel about overthrowing the US government

869
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,880
after the main character and his insurgents began a race war.

870
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:09,640
Okay.

871
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,320
Specifically in the book, they bomb an FBI building using a box truck.

872
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:14,120
Jesus.

873
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:19,160
It was written as quote, explicitly racist and anti-semitic, end quote.

874
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,920
It has been called the Bible of the Racist Right by the FBI.

875
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,600
Geez, that's as official as you can get.

876
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:27,240
Yeah.

877
00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:28,200
What a title.

878
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,200
It's author William Pierce, which I didn't even want to put his name in because I was like,

879
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,760
this piece of shit doesn't deserve recognition, but he was a part of the National Alliance,

880
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,520
which is a neo-Nazi group.

881
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,120
Super swell guy, right?

882
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:40,920
There it is.

883
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:41,720
What a peach.

884
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:42,200
What a peach.

885
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:48,920
It wouldn't actually be until 2020 that Amazon would remove the book off of its website for sale.

886
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,400
Yeah.

887
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,280
Damn.

888
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,640
And it was, it's actually outright illegal to own it in Canada.

889
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:55,160
Not even kidding.

890
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,080
Well, they don't want anyone getting any fucking ideas.

891
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:57,560
Yeah.

892
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,960
It can be confiscated at the border when you try to go through the border as it's illegal to own

893
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,280
hate propaganda and they consider it hate propaganda.

894
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,480
That's literally so funny though.

895
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:06,120
This is shit.

896
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,240
Okay, you're crossing the border.

897
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,000
All right, so I'm going to have to check your car for this book.

898
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:09,720
For a book?

899
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:10,760
There's actually one book.

900
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Canada has a list of books you can't bring in.

901
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:14,520
That is wild.

902
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,320
Is that intense?

903
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:15,960
That is intense.

904
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,080
I kind of fucking love that though.

905
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,480
So needless to say, Tim would become extremely critical of minorities around this time.

906
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,440
Specifically people of color, excuse me.

907
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,000
And of course he would become anti-Semitic as well.

908
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:33,640
So he would be blaming them for lack of livable working wages like dick-dicker-derves, you know?

909
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:34,200
Is he white?

910
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,320
Tim, yeah.

911
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:35,720
Okay.

912
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:35,960
Yeah.

913
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,400
Well, I mean, I figured why does it matter.

914
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:44,360
Y'all could think of was the dick-dicker-derves from from South Park.

915
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,560
You don't remember that from South Park?

916
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:46,440
I don't watch South Park.

917
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,320
Oh, okay. Well, it's just a famous quote from South Park.

918
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,960
It's like people complaining about people of color, like minorities taking their jobs

919
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,880
or stealing their jobs, and it's just a bunch of like old white men going like dick-dicker-derves.

920
00:38:57,880 --> 00:38:59,960
Yeah, dick-dicker-derves.

921
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:01,960
You need dick-dicker-derves.

922
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,600
It's like, bitch, you're retired.

923
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:05,400
Yeah.

924
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,280
You need to be taking your job.

925
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,280
So it's important to gain an education around this time because when going through like the

926
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,880
hiring pool, you want to look good and have a degree in stuff.

927
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:16,280
For sure.

928
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,240
So a lot of Tim's peers decided to go to college,

929
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:24,520
but Tim decided after a few semesters that he wanted to pursue other things and he quit school.

930
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,560
I am just too cool for school.

931
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:28,360
Yeah.

932
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:29,800
College is for losers.

933
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,440
I'm going to just be a gun person.

934
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,360
I ain't a pot of your system.

935
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,040
So you got a job driving an armored truck.

936
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,040
So Tim loved this job for the most part.

937
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,040
He loved having power and making him self-feel really important.

938
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,240
Did he carry a gun on his person at all times as well?

939
00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,320
The second best thing about this job was that he got to carry a gun to work.

940
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:53,960
It's great.

941
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:55,880
So he just toted around a gun all day.

942
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:56,440
Of course he did.

943
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:03,000
One of his co-workers remembers on one occasion that Tim came to work with bandoleros around

944
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,800
his chest full of ammunition, like ponchovia.

945
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:06,920
Like, bitch, you don't need that shit.

946
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,400
Calm down.

947
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,320
Calm the fuck down.

948
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,760
Reminds me of hot fuzz.

949
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:11,960
Like, it's just a joke.

950
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,440
Have you ever seen the movie Pain and Gain?

951
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:15,000
No.

952
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,080
It's with the one that rocked Downsend.

953
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:17,400
Mark Wahlberg?

954
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:18,920
Mark Wahlberg, yeah, Marky Mark.

955
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,240
I know the story because it's based off of a true story.

956
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:21,560
It is.

957
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,080
I was actually thinking about doing that for one of our cases.

958
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:26,840
I thought it was a really interesting one.

959
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:27,640
Simplest side note.

960
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:33,320
At one point, the rock steals a bag of cash from an armored truck when they try to shoot

961
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,080
on him and he gets away and then he goes and he like runs into like a, I think like a

962
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:38,520
bus station or something?

963
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:43,960
Anyway, and he opens it up and it's blazing with all this ink and it's so funny.

964
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,920
And then it goes like, he like shows up to you like his friend's wedding or whatever.

965
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,920
Like Mark Wahlberg's like, dude, why are you green?

966
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,360
I was like, what the fuck is that?

967
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,520
It's just a really funny scene.

968
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,520
I don't know what I said earlier, but they're bandoliers.

969
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:55,640
I don't know what I said earlier.

970
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:56,520
I think you said that.

971
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,840
I thought I said bandoleros.

972
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:00,280
No, I think you said bandoliers.

973
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:00,840
Bandoliers.

974
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,120
Like a chandelier, bandolier.

975
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:02,600
Yeah, bandolier.

976
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:10,760
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979
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983
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984
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:43,080
So Tim would often speed around in the truck while driving it and road-raging at other people,

985
00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,800
literally shouting, like begging for a chance to shoot people.

986
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,160
Oh, like he would say, oh, this motherfucker does it again.

987
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:52,600
I don't want to fucking shoot that guy.

988
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:54,040
Like with his partner in the truck, too.

989
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:56,680
Yeah, with a co-worker, because they would always have to ride in tandem.

990
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:57,160
Yeah.

991
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,960
So would he like brandish his weapon, like to show somebody?

992
00:41:59,960 --> 00:42:00,520
Probably.

993
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:01,560
Well, that's a felony.

994
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,920
Well, even if you're working for an armored truck, it's a fucking felony.

995
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,640
He's been bringing guns to school circa, like, 85, so he probably doesn't give a shit.

996
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,760
I'm just saying, I just think it's funny that, like, well, it's not funny.

997
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,840
But, like, here in Texas, for people that don't know, it's legal to have a handgun in your car.

998
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,280
You don't have to have a license for it.

999
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,720
But it's a felony to show someone that you have a handgun in your car.

1000
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:22,840
It's like, hey, check this out.

1001
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,720
But, like, the fucking handgun in your car.

1002
00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:30,280
Like, God, it just seems reckless as fuck.

1003
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:30,680
He is.

1004
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:31,640
He doesn't give a shit.

1005
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:32,200
It's not.

1006
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,160
It's unhinged.

1007
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:33,560
It's not funny.

1008
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:34,280
It's unhinged.

1009
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:41,000
In January 1988, Tim and a friend of his would choose to purchase some property outside of Buffalo.

1010
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:47,320
Tim said that this was a dream of his to have this kind of survivalist bunker and a space to

1011
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:48,840
target practice.

1012
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:49,240
Okay.

1013
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,240
Target practice.

1014
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:51,480
Okay.

1015
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:57,160
Okay. Neighbors would say that they could hear Tim and his friends shooting and detonating explosives

1016
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,480
for hours at a time, day after day.

1017
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,200
Dude, I'm going to have to research someone else.

1018
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,360
This is so similar to like, okay.

1019
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:05,560
Oh, no.

1020
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:07,480
Shit.

1021
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,440
No, it's going to be cool.

1022
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:13,720
It's just funny because we always, like, think alike and we say the same things at the same time with the same, like, tone.

1023
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:17,000
And so it's funny that we're both doing similar cases within a week.

1024
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:21,400
I didn't want to do this because, well, I won't reveal right now why I didn't want to do it.

1025
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:30,520
But, by May, Tim would enlist in the army after venting to several people that he felt like his life had no direction.

1026
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,920
And this was seemingly his only other option was to, like, go into the military.

1027
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,520
But you already kind of want to do anyways.

1028
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,920
Well, maybe you could have stayed in college because that was an option as well.

1029
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:39,720
And then you just like,

1030
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:44,760
True. For computer programming or like cyber security, you would fucking rule with that.

1031
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:45,240
I guarantee you.

1032
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:49,240
He goes to the dean, he hacks into the fucking national database and they're like, here's your fucking diploma.

1033
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:49,480
Yeah.

1034
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,680
Like, he doesn't need to take all the courses.

1035
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,800
You have to hack into the school system or something.

1036
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,240
And then, yeah.

1037
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:58,760
He's like, look, I am the FBI.

1038
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,040
And they're like, okay, here you go.

1039
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:01,800
Here's your credentials.

1040
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:02,360
And a job.

1041
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,240
Jim would, Jim, who's Jim?

1042
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:06,120
Who the fuck is Jim?

1043
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:11,240
Tim would thrive in this environment, as they usually do, because there's a lot of routine here, right?

1044
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:12,840
I say they as in killers.

1045
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:13,400
Well, yeah.

1046
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:19,240
And also, again, we said, like, in the last episode or the one before, like, if you want to, like, kill people for, like,

1047
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:20,840
a hobby, then just like, join the military.

1048
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:21,000
Yeah.

1049
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,120
Especially, that sounds bad.

1050
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:22,840
Become an assassin.

1051
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,640
Become an assassin or become a hitman or become a sniper, you know?

1052
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,960
But a lot of people do choose the military because it's a legal way of killing people.

1053
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,640
But it's unfortunate, but it happens.

1054
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,840
Hey, rather than fucking, than killing people on the streets, civilians.

1055
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:35,560
True, yeah.

1056
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:42,840
So Tim actually found several like-minded conservatives, including Terry Nichols, who was like his BFF.

1057
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,280
Tim would quickly scale the ranks into becoming a sergeant, actually.

1058
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:53,560
So most of the qualities and concerns that the average civilian would mostly have about Tim's

1059
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,960
behavior was actually really supported and encouraged in the military, right?

1060
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:04,280
So it's, you know, neighbors would complain about the explosives or you shooting in your backyard until

1061
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,880
8 a.m. in the morning or something.

1062
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,000
But this was kind of, everybody was doing the same kind of shit.

1063
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:09,800
Well, yeah.

1064
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,400
And they're like, great, you have experience.

1065
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:17,400
Tim boasted that he already knew how to shoot and very well and how he knew how to create explosives already,

1066
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,880
which seemed to impress most of his comrades.

1067
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,040
Yeah, no one was like, how'd you do that?

1068
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,640
They're like, teach me.

1069
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,680
Teach me, yeah.

1070
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,480
Help me out.

1071
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:26,120
Yeah.

1072
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:31,480
Furthermore, since Tim was highly intelligent, he excelled at any test that was thrown at him academically.

1073
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,480
And by all accounts, Tim was an exemplary sergeant.

1074
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:40,280
He just had one thing that was kind of in the back of everybody's mind,

1075
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,520
that kind of bothered them about Tim.

1076
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:43,720
It just didn't sit well.

1077
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:45,720
That he was insanely fucking racist.

1078
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:46,360
Oh.

1079
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:50,280
Which, of course, we kind of already understood because of the Turner Diaries thing.

1080
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:56,280
Yeah, he, uh, was really great at making bombs and, you know, shooting things, but he's kind of an asshole.

1081
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:57,400
He's just a fucking racist.

1082
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:58,840
Fucking dickhead.

1083
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,240
He would give extra attention to white subordinates saying that they needed to work twice as hard,

1084
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:08,920
because quote, if you're white, you can do better on a fitness test, show up on time every day.

1085
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,520
Look perfect in your uniform.

1086
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:16,520
And if eight jobs are open, five will go to blacks no matter if they're overweight, barely pass the test,

1087
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,360
and their uniform is wrinkled.

1088
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,160
End of quote.

1089
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,160
There is so many fucking things wrong with that quote.

1090
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:23,640
Yup.

1091
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:24,520
That's what it is.

1092
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,280
Like all that, like, it doesn't, to him it didn't matter.

1093
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:35,480
And he was in fact encouraging white subordinates to work twice as hard, because these black people over here

1094
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:39,080
are gonna just take the position anyways.

1095
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,440
He was a racist piece of shit.

1096
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:41,560
What the fuck?

1097
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:46,360
He was once reprimanded for wearing a white power shirt on base.

1098
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:47,480
No, he was not.

1099
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:53,080
And when asked when to explain why he thought this was okay to wear this, he said that he had seen another man wearing a black power shirt.

1100
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,480
So he was just trying to, like, you know, make it even.

1101
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,280
Yeah.

1102
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:57,880
He's one of those.

1103
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:58,840
That's ridiculous.

1104
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,240
They should just stay in their uniforms the whole time so that nothing.

1105
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:02,840
Yeah, especially on base.

1106
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,840
Like, well, I guess they couldn't can wear civilian clothes, but it just depends on where you're at, I guess.

1107
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:07,320
Yeah.

1108
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:13,720
For this alone, though, it was very difficult to work with Tim even for some of his closest people,

1109
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:16,840
other than Terry Nichols, because that guy's an asshole.

1110
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,080
Eventually, Tim was sent to serve in the Persian Gulf War in 1990.

1111
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:26,680
While Tim was serving, he would win medals for a shot that he made from 2,000 yards away.

1112
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:27,880
Jesus.

1113
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,080
He recalled, quote, his head just disappeared.

1114
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,480
I saw everything above the shoulders disappear, like a red mist, end quote.

1115
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:36,440
He killed a person?

1116
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:36,840
I'm sorry.

1117
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:37,240
A person.

1118
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:38,040
Oh, Jesus.

1119
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:38,840
Like, yeah.

1120
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,840
2,000 yards away?

1121
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,840
It was an Iraqi soldier, yeah.

1122
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,840
That is so fucking far.

1123
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,640
Tim, when later comes to fully understand how underprepared Iraqi soldiers were at the time,

1124
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,240
they had very little protective gear and inferior weapons.

1125
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:59,240
He said later, quote, Saddam, if he ever showed up, chicken shit bastard, because they were all in the army.

1126
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:01,240
Chicken shit bastard.

1127
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:05,240
Because of him, I killed a man who didn't want to fight us, but was forced to, end quote.

1128
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:07,880
He has a point.

1129
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:08,360
It's true.

1130
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,000
I mean, it's, I mean, it sucks.

1131
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,480
And it seemed to really profoundly fuck him up.

1132
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:15,480
Well, yeah, that's fucked up.

1133
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:17,400
Like, I agree.

1134
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,120
Tim, after winning these awards for killing this man and being offered a spot on special ops,

1135
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,440
did two days of training, but ultimately quit.

1136
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,160
He applied for discharge, was approved, and left in 1991.

1137
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:30,040
Okay.

1138
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,600
So this is called diagnosing a killer.

1139
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:40,360
And it kind of seems like he's leaving the military because he doesn't want to kill people anymore.

1140
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,560
But this is far from over, I'm assuming.

1141
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,440
So, that's kind of strange to me.

1142
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,560
There's a few things at play, so we'll get to it.

1143
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:50,200
Yeah, of course.

1144
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,920
When he returned home, friends and family became concerned for his mental well-being.

1145
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,440
The experiences he had only fueled his decreasing mental state.

1146
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:59,240
Oh my God.

1147
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:03,720
Tim had left the property outside Buffalo and had moved back into his father's home.

1148
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,440
Tim tried to go back to being a security guard and tried several different places,

1149
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,480
but nothing really stuck.

1150
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:14,840
Tim felt that the mundane highs and lows of everyday life were beneath him, essentially.

1151
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:21,000
Honestly, I don't get why we don't line up jobs for veterans.

1152
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,880
You come out of the military, you serve our country, and we're not going to give you a job

1153
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,160
after that ongoing.

1154
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,760
I mean, if you're dishonorably discharged, you go, well, that's different.

1155
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:36,600
But just leaving the military did my part, now I'm back, and now I don't have anywhere to fucking go.

1156
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,320
And I'm suffering mentally, like mental health-wise.

1157
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:40,360
God, that's fucked up.

1158
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:46,520
Tim had just experienced way too much for chatting to just chat, like for chatting's sake.

1159
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,320
He just, in his mind, there were all of these things that were going on.

1160
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:50,280
Too much going on.

1161
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:56,600
And he just became, it's like having a tolerance level, like when you're addicted to something.

1162
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:57,080
Yeah.

1163
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:05,400
Your tolerance for, you know, the anxiety or the adrenaline or the whatever you're experiencing

1164
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:11,560
is so high that coming back to just chat around the water cooler, like, no.

1165
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:15,960
And I guarantee you he's also kind of thinking like, you guys are all just going about your

1166
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,000
fucking business and you have no idea what's going on, like in the real world.

1167
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:19,480
Yeah, in the world.

1168
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:20,120
Like out there, yeah.

1169
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:22,120
Do you hear that noise?

1170
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,600
It's like a growl.

1171
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,920
So he decided at this point he wanted to revisit his desire to open up a gun and ammo shop

1172
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,520
and began selling, buying, and trading guns at gun shows.

1173
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,640
And fireworks.

1174
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:36,760
And fireworks.

1175
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,760
Where does he live again?

1176
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,760
Well, he was kind of all over the place.

1177
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,960
Right now he's with his dad outside, like in Buffalo area.

1178
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:44,520
Oh yeah, near.

1179
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,760
But during this kind of gun show thing he began to travel more.

1180
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,440
He actually began to attend KK rallies.

1181
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,440
I mean KKK rallies.

1182
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,440
It's like, what's that?

1183
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:57,560
KKK rallies.

1184
00:50:57,560 --> 00:50:59,560
But still fucked up.

1185
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,560
But still fucked up.

1186
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:02,520
But still fucked up.

1187
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:08,120
In Kansas specifically, he would travel for gun shows and stuff like that.

1188
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:12,360
Although we found some sense of belonging at these rallies, he criticized the members

1189
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:17,320
for focusing too much on race and not enough about arming themselves for when the shit

1190
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,400
would ultimately hit the fan with the government.

1191
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,320
It kind of seems like he, like, okay, he's clearly a racist piece of shit.

1192
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:24,040
Yeah, of course.

1193
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:28,360
But it almost seems like he wants these people to like, he just wants a group of people that

1194
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,560
are already pissed off about something so that he can like create like a bigger.

1195
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:33,560
Make them more pissed off.

1196
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,560
Make them more pissed off.

1197
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,560
It's almost like a cult idealation.

1198
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,720
Like he's like, okay, we should all be prepared for this.

1199
00:51:39,720 --> 00:51:40,520
Like you're gonna be mad.

1200
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,960
Let's be mad about this and let's all prepare instead of like trying.

1201
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,560
Because clearly he's probably preached about this to like his friends in school or whatever

1202
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,480
it is and they're like, you're fucking nuts.

1203
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:50,520
And so he has to find people that are already.

1204
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:51,800
Other than Terry Nichols.

1205
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:52,840
Other than Terry.

1206
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:57,000
But it seems like he's just looking for groups of people, like I said, that are already like

1207
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,320
tight about something and then he's just gonna make them try to make them like more

1208
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:02,040
mad.

1209
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:02,920
Government, I guess.

1210
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,840
I think it's hilarious that the KKK wasn't like, fuck this guy.

1211
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:07,720
Who the fuck is this guy?

1212
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:08,280
Yeah.

1213
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,680
Timothy McVeigh was like, fuck the KKK.

1214
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:11,880
Yeah, exactly.

1215
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:13,000
You know?

1216
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:13,800
Jesus.

1217
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:14,920
Like they don't want to listen to me.

1218
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:16,520
Yeah.

1219
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:18,440
Raise this piece of shit.

1220
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:19,240
Yeah.

1221
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:24,520
So Tim around this time would also try to pursue a woman, but was quickly shot down by this woman.

1222
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:31,240
And it was said later that Tim, it was suspected that Tim was like, he never

1223
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:33,000
lost his virginity, essentially.

1224
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:37,240
It was speculated later in life because he was never actually romantically involved with any

1225
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:39,720
woman that anybody saw throughout his life.

1226
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:44,840
Do you think that was on purpose or on accident?

1227
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,600
I think that his mind was too busy, honestly.

1228
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:47,480
I think so too.

1229
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,880
I was gonna say like, I wouldn't put it past him that he's like, I don't have fucking time for

1230
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:52,280
women.

1231
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,640
I'm not gonna get laid because I'm gonna make an excuse for it.

1232
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:56,200
Yeah.

1233
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,920
I'm too busy to get laid, not that like I can't get laid.

1234
00:52:58,920 --> 00:52:59,000
Yeah.

1235
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,400
You know, like kind of like make it like his idea.

1236
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:07,320
Well, apparently on one of the trips when he was the security guard for the armored truck,

1237
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:15,000
that one of their stops, a woman had found Tim attractive or something and had slipped

1238
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,920
her number to his coworker.

1239
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,480
And when the coworker gave it to Tim, he ripped up the number.

1240
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:24,600
I feel like it's one of those things like he doesn't know it's like, oh, she's not hot enough.

1241
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,600
Or yeah, like he'll make up an excuse to make it his idea so he doesn't have to get rejected.

1242
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:29,560
Yeah.

1243
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:33,400
Tim around this time would start writing to local papers, government officials and friends

1244
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,160
and family complaining about politics.

1245
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,720
He had huge problems with gun control issues and taxes for the most part.

1246
00:53:39,720 --> 00:53:40,680
Didn't want to pay taxes.

1247
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:46,360
Tim would eventually reconnect with his old army buddy, Terry Nichols, who had at this point

1248
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:47,560
settled in Michigan.

1249
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:48,360
BFFs.

1250
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:49,800
BFFs.

1251
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:50,600
I see you buddy.

1252
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:56,440
Tim followed Terry to Michigan and although he would say that he never really felt like he had a

1253
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:02,840
permanent home after this, he did, of course, that his BFF and they are buddies or something.

1254
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,280
Brutal fucking friends.

1255
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:05,320
Brutal friends.

1256
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,680
So yes, after this, Tim essentially said he never really found a home again.

1257
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,040
He just traveled a lot.

1258
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:12,920
Okay.

1259
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:16,920
Why do I always have things like that that happen on the air?

1260
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:24,840
February 28th, 1993, Tim heard something come across his radio that peaked his interest enough

1261
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,720
to pack his car and drive south in a hurry.

1262
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:28,280
Oh no.

1263
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:35,560
The ATF was serving a warrant on the compound owned by the branch Davidians in where a shootout ensued.

1264
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:41,080
Tim, being passionate about the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms and feeling like the ATF

1265
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:46,680
had no grounds to pursue a warden, he headed to Waco, Texas in support of the Davidians.

1266
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:47,720
Obviously.

1267
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:48,680
Obvi.

1268
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:50,520
Obviously, that's where I know his name from.

1269
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:52,200
Because I did the...

1270
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,280
Well, I didn't do Waco, but I did Appalwhite.

1271
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,600
Yeah, but I just, I knew his name.

1272
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,320
I just couldn't connect like where I knew his name from.

1273
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:05,880
He would post up outside of the Waco property, much like other protesters and counter protesters,

1274
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,200
and sell pro-gun bumper stickers while waiting for the conclusion of the standoff.

1275
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,680
It just says like go guns or something like that.

1276
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:14,840
Or just guns with the thumbs up.

1277
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,360
One of the bumper stickers said, quote,

1278
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,560
When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw.

1279
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:22,040
End quote.

1280
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,160
Timmy the Kid.

1281
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:26,120
Timmy the Kid.

1282
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:28,200
God.

1283
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,200
He was also interviewed by a local reporter where they were filming the standoff.

1284
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,240
Tim said, quote,

1285
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:36,760
The government is afraid of the guns that people have because they have to

1286
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,640
have control of the people at all times.

1287
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,160
Once you take away the guns, you can't do anything to the people.

1288
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,800
You give them an inch and they take a mile.

1289
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,680
I believe we are slowly turning into a socialist government.

1290
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,040
The government is continually growing bigger and more powerful,

1291
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:56,120
and the people need to prepare to defend themselves against government control, end quote.

1292
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,000
I'm not going to get political here, but the funny thing is,

1293
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:05,160
is that what he's about to do is going to set off like a rapid increase in those events.

1294
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,640
And he's over here like, one of the guns in the world,

1295
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,280
and then does something with them that is terrible.

1296
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,080
It's very interesting because,

1297
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:20,760
and that's kind of what I guess I was going to say about the whole army thing,

1298
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:28,040
I think that he thought that a much cheered point about people

1299
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:32,120
wanting to go into the military so that they can kill people,

1300
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,520
I think that he realized he was working for the government.

1301
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,800
Yeah, well, I think maybe he went in thinking he could change their minds,

1302
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,840
or maybe influence, or if he got high enough, he could make the decisions.

1303
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:41,480
Yeah.

1304
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:48,440
But, sorry, y'all couldn't see that, but Koala was rubbing her sock and it was making a noise,

1305
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:54,280
and I like, she was shooting her hand away, but I thought it was really rude.

1306
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:55,080
I was like, sorry.

1307
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,600
Anyway, maybe he thinks like if he can get high enough in the rankings,

1308
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,080
then he can have some sort of say in like what happened,

1309
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:05,880
and then he, well, I guess he did get invited to be in special off,

1310
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:08,440
but he probably realized like, well, this isn't fucking working,

1311
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:09,800
like I am working for the government,

1312
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,600
or I've become part of the people that I hate or whatever.

1313
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,040
Yeah, I'm just a cog in the machine.

1314
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:21,720
During the 51-day standoff, four ATF agents would die and 16 would be injured.

1315
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:22,520
Oh my god.

1316
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:28,200
On April 19, 1993, the final push from the ATF would result in the compound being burned to the

1317
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:33,400
ground, resulting in the death of 76 Davidians, 26 of which are children,

1318
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,760
including David Koresh and all of his own children.

1319
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:40,600
Okay, can you explain to me one more time what the standoff was for?

1320
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:46,840
So the ATF were serving warrants under, so they had apparently,

1321
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,480
it's one of the biggest conspiracies, right, when it comes to things like this, right?

1322
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:52,200
Common knowledge.

1323
00:57:52,760 --> 00:58:01,080
So apparently somebody from the branch of Indians from the compound reported to authorities that

1324
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:05,640
there were illegal weapons and child abuse happening.

1325
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,400
And the compound was like a cult?

1326
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:08,920
Yes, okay, I didn't know that.

1327
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,400
Sorry, the branch of Indians are the names of the cult.

1328
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:11,960
Okay, okay.

1329
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:13,480
Yeah, or yeah, the cult.

1330
00:58:13,480 --> 00:58:15,240
I mean, I kind of gathered that, but you know.

1331
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:23,880
So David Koresh was the cult leader, and so David Koresh, so essentially ATF were serving a search

1332
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:29,000
warrant for the compound, but they brought in like a shit ton of tactical vehicles, a shit ton,

1333
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,640
because they had heard that there were a lot of weapons on the property.

1334
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:39,400
So they went to go essentially knock down the door, I suppose, or whatever.

1335
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:40,600
Anyways, a shootout ensued.

1336
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,480
Four ATF agents were shot and killed, 16 injured.

1337
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,720
But it took 51 days for this whole thing to happen?

1338
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:50,600
Yes, because it was actually a compound.

1339
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,240
It was like, and they had built this thing out of fucking steel, the branch of Indians themselves.

1340
00:58:55,240 --> 00:59:01,320
So it took them 51 days to seize control of it, essentially, or to like get through the whole thing?

1341
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,800
But essentially, they didn't take control of it.

1342
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,880
They had this grand idea that they were just going to roll tanks through the front door.

1343
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:16,680
And the conspiracy is that either the ATF, the government itself, lit the house on fire to

1344
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:23,240
encourage people to come out, or according to them, they said that the branched of Indians

1345
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:28,680
caused the fire, or the tanks themselves accidentally caused the fire either way.

1346
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,360
I guess it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me that it took 51 days when it

1347
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:36,840
seemed like it originally should have been something that was done in a few hours or

1348
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:37,400
a few days.

1349
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:38,200
Well, it's not like this house, you know what I mean?

1350
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:39,320
Yeah, it's big.

1351
00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:40,360
It's a compound.

1352
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,680
They also know that there's tons of children in there.

1353
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:46,680
They also knew that David Koresh had been shot because David Koresh was,

1354
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:49,640
and had been on the phone with them, it's not like they just didn't know what was going on.

1355
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,440
They had been on the phone with branched of Indians, they had been on the phone with David.

1356
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:55,400
They knew that David was shot.

1357
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:56,600
I just slapped my own hand.

1358
00:59:56,600 --> 01:00:00,920
They knew that David had been shot, and so I think what they thought is that David was

1359
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,280
going to succumb to his own injuries, and then the rest of them would just surrender.

1360
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:12,680
So the fire started, and again, and that's why I just said the final push for the ATF

1361
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,320
would result in the compound being burned to the ground.

1362
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:20,360
I didn't say who started it because I don't know, and that it would result in the death of

1363
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:26,200
76 Davidians, 26 of which were children, including David Koresh, the leader, and his

1364
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,040
own children, which I think he had like nine.

1365
01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:28,440
Okay.

1366
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:31,000
And Tim was just there when it happened.

1367
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:36,600
I think Tim was back home at Michigan at this point, but he had gone down over the course

1368
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,680
of this 51 days multiple times down to the compound and was witnessing this happening.

1369
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:41,480
Okay.

1370
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:46,680
So Tim was really beside himself, especially knowing that there were children in the building,

1371
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,080
and blamed the government, saying that the government had done this on purpose.

1372
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:55,560
When they were serving a warrant that shouldn't have even, because it's their property,

1373
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:59,160
they can do whatever they want, especially when it's tied up with the Second Amendment,

1374
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:04,600
the right to bear arms, that he thought there was no reason why the federal government should

1375
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:09,160
have gone up on this property in the first place and that the government killed these 76 people.

1376
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:09,560
Yes.

1377
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:10,840
He was really passionate about it.

1378
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:14,280
Well, I can see a delusion.

1379
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:20,280
Like that makes sense if it's a delusion that he's like, and it kind of makes sense in general.

1380
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:23,000
You know, like I can see that making someone upset.

1381
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:23,560
Yes.

1382
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:27,000
So this was the nail in the coffin, the government coffin, if you will, for Tim,

1383
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:32,440
and it likely worsened his PTSD and furthered his dissent into, you know, just mentally.

1384
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,600
Yeah, and it increased his rage for, you know, authority and the government,

1385
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,680
you already said that, but just adding up.

1386
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,680
So Tim and Terry decided to relocate in Arizona.

1387
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:47,800
Tim had been researching nuclear test sites, and through his own predictions,

1388
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:53,880
if there were to be a nuclear war, this one area of Arizona, which is, I think it's Sledgeman,

1389
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,440
would be the least likely to be exposed to the blast.

1390
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,640
So they specifically moved there in case there was a nuclear war,

1391
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:04,360
because it'll be like out of the blast zone, essentially, according to their research.

1392
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:05,320
Yeah, because he's a scientist.

1393
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:06,360
Yeah, totally.

1394
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:11,560
So a few months later, in July 1994, Tim and another friend, Michael Forte,

1395
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,360
were arrested for trespassing onto Area 51.

1396
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:19,240
A little later, a few months later, he traveled to Mississippi under the hunch

1397
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,600
that there was a government secret base there, which there was not.

1398
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,440
He's lucky that he only got arrested for trespassing on Area 51.

1399
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,120
He could have gotten fucking killed.

1400
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:30,680
Now I think they're like gonna open up a fucking museum or some shit.

1401
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:31,720
Are they? That's funny.

1402
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:36,200
No, I don't think that they actually are, but they've released all those documents about the UFOs.

1403
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:37,320
Fuck it, whatever.

1404
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:37,960
Whatever.

1405
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:39,080
Come on in.

1406
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,760
Might as well make money off you dumbasses.

1407
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:45,000
Just have a dude in an alien costume like, whoo-hoo.

1408
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:47,480
Here's my robe.

1409
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,240
Lights up, you want to see?

1410
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:01,960
These are all the cow organs I cultivated over the last 25, 60 years.

1411
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,960
Don't they like turn cows inside out or something?

1412
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:08,040
I have no idea.

1413
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,040
That's like the whole thing, no?

1414
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,880
Have you seen the Jimmy Neutron movie?

1415
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:14,360
No.

1416
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,120
Oh, and he's like, when they go to the...

1417
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:20,200
Their parents get kidnapped by aliens because Jimmy like tries to communicate with aliens

1418
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:21,400
and they're like, oh, they look delicious.

1419
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,440
So they take all the parents and then the kids go into space to rescue them.

1420
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:27,000
Anyway, but the aliens are eggs.

1421
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,880
Like they're in like an egg shell and they just have an eyeball.

1422
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,160
They're like goopy on the bottom and they just have eyeballs that stick up and the kings...

1423
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:37,160
Oh, I think it's one of the guys, he's like the king's brothers and things.

1424
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,200
So like he has to kind of be around, but like he's not really like very bright.

1425
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:41,640
And his name is Ublar.

1426
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,880
And Dana always talking about it when he's like...

1427
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:46,040
Excuse me.

1428
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,160
They send like, they have like a toaster or something and they steal it.

1429
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:50,120
He's like, oh, what's this from?

1430
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:51,640
It came, he's like, oh, it came from that planet.

1431
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:56,440
And he goes, hello, what species are you?

1432
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:57,480
And he's like Ublar.

1433
01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:58,440
Hops up.

1434
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:00,760
But he's like, Ublar, it's toast.

1435
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:01,960
He's like talking to it.

1436
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,280
He's like, where is your leader?

1437
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:06,280
It's fucking funny.

1438
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,320
For those people that have seen the movie.

1439
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:08,120
No, I haven't seen that.

1440
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:08,440
Thanks.

1441
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:11,160
For those people that have seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about.

1442
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:11,560
It was funny.

1443
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:12,280
Anyway, good.

1444
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:12,760
Quasal.

1445
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:14,040
Yes, thank you.

1446
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,400
So yes, there was no Mississippi military secret military base.

1447
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:25,240
So again, this is just to show you that Tim is becoming obsessed if he wasn't before about

1448
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:26,200
government things.

1449
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,320
He's traveling all over the US to like catch the government.

1450
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:30,360
Well, it's delusional.

1451
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,920
Like it's just good.

1452
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:37,480
So by the time that September rolled around, Tim began plotting with the help of Terry,

1453
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:41,000
what would be the worst domestic terrorist attack in the US history?

1454
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:42,040
What?

1455
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:44,360
So September, right?

1456
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,720
This was likely around the time that Tim would find out that one of the strictest

1457
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,680
bans on assault rifles so far had just been passed as well.

1458
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:52,920
Oh, OK.

1459
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,640
So it disinfuriated Tim and Terry.

1460
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,960
He's like, we got to do something about this before we can.

1461
01:04:57,960 --> 01:04:58,680
Knuckleheads.

1462
01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:02,600
There are plenty of documents out there telling you how they accomplished the

1463
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,280
next process of this crime.

1464
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,960
But I am not here to be a manual for anyone, so I'm not going to go over it.

1465
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:12,760
But let's just say the two began collecting over a decent amount of time

1466
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:15,480
ingredients to build a Wumbo-Jumbo bomb.

1467
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:23,720
A bomb so massive it took over 5,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate and nitromethane.

1468
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:25,560
5,000 pounds.

1469
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,720
This makes Jack Gilbert Graham look like a fucking pussy.

1470
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:30,840
Puss, yeah.

1471
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,280
Oh my god, that's a lot.

1472
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:32,760
It's a lot.

1473
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:33,880
And it would take-

1474
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:35,080
How big was it physically?

1475
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:37,000
This size of a truck?

1476
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:38,120
Jesus.

1477
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:40,360
Do you know this story?

1478
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,840
So it took six months to plot, test, and plan, traveling several times to Oklahoma

1479
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,600
City to scope out its target, the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building.

1480
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:55,800
The target was picked because not only did it- did a lot of federal agents work in the

1481
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,720
building, but Tim specifically wanted to target ATF agents.

1482
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,400
He knew that we're working in the building.

1483
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:04,520
Even though they probably had nothing to do with the Waco thing.

1484
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:05,320
No, absolutely not.

1485
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:09,400
But this would be in retaliation for the perceived crimes against the Davidians and the

1486
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:10,920
American people in general.

1487
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:17,480
On April 19, 1995, Tim packed up a rider moving truck full of explosives.

1488
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:22,120
Tim chose this date as it would mark the two-year anniversary of the Waco incident.

1489
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:23,480
Two year?

1490
01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:24,440
Two years.

1491
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:24,760
Okay.

1492
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:25,640
Yeah.

1493
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:30,040
And also, sorry, really quick, do you think this is like a Folly Adu kind of situation with

1494
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:32,120
Terry or do you think Terry is just an asshole?

1495
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:32,440
You know what?

1496
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:33,320
That's a good question.

1497
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,440
Because this is clearly a delusion that Tim is experiencing.

1498
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:36,600
And Terry is along for the ride.

1499
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:39,960
Do you think that Terry is believing the delusion and going along with it?

1500
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:41,880
Or do you think he's just like, fuck yeah, let's kill some people?

1501
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:42,680
I don't know.

1502
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:44,680
I mean, they did meet in the army and I don't know.

1503
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:47,800
Maybe they thought it was like this serendipitous thing, you know how they think about that like

1504
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:48,520
T&O, you know?

1505
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,680
That'd be interesting to know if that's what that was.

1506
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:57,240
So he drove to the Murrah Federal Building located in downtown Oklahoma City.

1507
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:02,440
Before he reached the building about one block away, Tim pulled over to light a fuse to the bomb.

1508
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,960
It would give him just under two minutes to walk away from the scene.

1509
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:08,520
I mean, you mean run away from the scene?

1510
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:09,480
Jesus Christ.

1511
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,560
He pulled up in front of the building and parked directly in front of it on the north side.

1512
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,760
He swiftly got out and began to walk away from the scene.

1513
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:22,280
At 9.02 a.m., just as the workday was to start for the employees at the Murrah Building,

1514
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,640
the massive bomb went off, instantly destroying a third of the building.

1515
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:29,080
168 people would be killed in the blast.

1516
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:35,160
What Timothy McVeigh did not know at the time was that a daycare was actually located on the second floor.

1517
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:36,920
Oh my god.

1518
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:38,600
And 19 children would be killed.

1519
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:41,960
What a fucking dumb- I hope he feels like shit because he was like,

1520
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,280
oh they killed children, they killed children.

1521
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:44,600
Exactly.

1522
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:45,960
Fucking does the same thing.

1523
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,800
Irony was not lost on McVeigh later as the thoughts of the Davidian compound and

1524
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:53,080
witnessing the children lost in the fire haunted him on most nights.

1525
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:53,400
Good.

1526
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,320
McVeigh would later state that if he knew this information he likely would have chosen

1527
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,560
another building to attack, which I don't believe.

1528
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:01,800
I don't believe either and also like it doesn't fucking matter,

1529
01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:03,800
you still were trying to kill people.

1530
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,800
Also I just realized this is Oklahoma City bombing.

1531
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:09,560
You should like the case for me.

1532
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:11,160
Just realized towards me yet.

1533
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:14,440
You have case amnesia.

1534
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:19,560
I don't get the luxury of clicking on the podcast with the title already there.

1535
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,120
I have to type in the title after we're done recording.

1536
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:23,720
I'm sure you know.

1537
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:27,560
Yeah, I don't believe that for a second, especially since Cemetery were already going

1538
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:29,400
to and from Oklahoma to stake it out.

1539
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:31,240
Yeah, there was too much planning involved.

1540
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,040
Yeah, they planned for six months and you tell me you didn't know that there was a daycare

1541
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:35,080
located on the second floor.

1542
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:35,880
The second floor.

1543
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:36,760
He didn't fucking care.

1544
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,280
And he parked on the north side where the daycare was located.

1545
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:48,520
No, it was, I think that he knew it was there and I think he specifically put that

1546
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:52,040
truck on that side of the building to kill those children

1547
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:55,160
to make the government feel badly about what they did to the dividends.

1548
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:56,120
I agree.

1549
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:00,200
And oh, your ATF, if anybody survived, maybe their kid died and then they'll feel I'll

1550
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:01,560
get them that way or whatever.

1551
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,080
684 people would sustain injuries.

1552
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:05,640
God.

1553
01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:09,160
Over 300 other buildings were also damaged in the blast.

1554
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,400
Of course, most criminals we cover are not the brightest.

1555
01:09:14,440 --> 01:09:18,760
So some witnesses gave descriptions of the man swiftly walking away from the rider truck.

1556
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:20,440
So this guy like bulleting away.

1557
01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:25,240
I saw this guy just like and he was running like a, like he was running like Gumby.

1558
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:27,080
He had really long limbs.

1559
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:28,520
He was very awkward.

1560
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:29,960
He was very white, very tall.

1561
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,640
He was wearing a shirt that said white power.

1562
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,720
I don't know if he gets anything away.

1563
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:36,360
Jesus.

1564
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:43,320
That's a good one.

1565
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:49,080
So police quickly located the axle of the rider truck that still lay in the middle of

1566
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:52,920
the road where the truck was parked, not in the middle of the road, but on the sidewalk-ish.

1567
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:53,400
Damn.

1568
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:57,160
And of course, so it was, yeah, the axle was sitting right with it.

1569
01:09:57,160 --> 01:09:58,280
Just shoved into the ground.

1570
01:09:58,280 --> 01:09:58,600
Yeah.

1571
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:01,880
And like just the truck itself was completely decimated.

1572
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:02,360
Of course.

1573
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:10,760
We, of course, this axle had a model number on it and they went to locate the rental truck

1574
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:16,200
place, like just rental truck places with the composite sketch from the witnesses.

1575
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,800
And the manager at the rental truck place positively identified the man as someone who

1576
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,080
rented a truck from her earlier that morning at 8am.

1577
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:23,560
Oh, that's-

1578
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,480
She's like, that looks similar to the guy that I rented.

1579
01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:25,980
Yeah.

1580
01:10:25,980 --> 01:10:26,600
That truck too.

1581
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:27,080
At 8am.

1582
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:27,960
Yeah, he signed in.

1583
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:29,800
Here's his name and his phone number.

1584
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:35,160
Well, the truck was rented to a one Robert Kling, which I wonder if that meant something to him.

1585
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:35,720
Doubt it.

1586
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:40,120
But he actually used the address of the hotel he was staying at while he was in Oklahoma.

1587
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:41,560
Yeah, in Oklahoma.

1588
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:42,120
Jesus.

1589
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:43,400
Which is cute.

1590
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:47,000
Well, he thinks that if he uses an alias and the address-

1591
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:48,760
The address doesn't matter.

1592
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:50,200
The address doesn't matter.

1593
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:51,320
Yeah, the address doesn't matter.

1594
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:51,800
So when-

1595
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:53,320
South Dakota is still looking at you.

1596
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:58,280
They went to the hotel manager and she positively identified the individual as Timothy McVeigh

1597
01:10:58,280 --> 01:10:59,080
from the sketch.

1598
01:10:59,080 --> 01:10:59,880
That's hilarious.

1599
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:02,040
She's like, yeah, that dude was totally checked in here, but he's already left.

1600
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:03,320
He left this morning at 8am.

1601
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:06,120
He was also the other guy named Terry Bradshaw.

1602
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:08,760
Terry was actually not here at the time, by the way.

1603
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:10,600
It wasn't Terry Bradshaw, by the way.

1604
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:11,480
That was a surprise.

1605
01:11:11,480 --> 01:11:13,480
That was a bad joke.

1606
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:15,480
It's scary, Terry.

1607
01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:17,240
It's scary, Terry.

1608
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:22,360
Meanwhile, state trooper Charlie Hanger was on traffic patrol on the border of Oklahoma

1609
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:29,080
and Kansas when a yellow 1977 Mercury marquee zoomed past him, speeding with no license plate.

1610
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,400
You're going to speed away from the crime.

1611
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:32,680
He's trying to get away.

1612
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:33,800
Like, you're gonna get-

1613
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:34,600
Gotta go.

1614
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:37,880
Even if you get pulled over, like, why are you speeding?

1615
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:40,280
Like, you're gonna get some sort of recognition.

1616
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:41,560
I think it was slight.

1617
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,560
I think it was like, eight over, ten over, but still.

1618
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:45,080
Well, luckily he was.

1619
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:48,680
The trooper pulled the car over and asked the man to step out of the vehicle as soon as

1620
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:53,560
he noticed that a bulky item was sitting in the man's waistband.

1621
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:58,600
The shirt that the man was wearing said, sick Semper tyrannous, which are the same words

1622
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:02,840
that John Wilkes Booth shouted before assassinating Lincoln.

1623
01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:05,080
Fucking poetic.

1624
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:06,280
Natural selection.

1625
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,280
Yeah, I was gonna say, it reminds me of that.

1626
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:09,480
Yeah, natural selection.

1627
01:12:09,480 --> 01:12:11,080
Randy Stair.

1628
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:12,920
He had three of them.

1629
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:14,120
He did, and he would-

1630
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,480
That's all he ever- his closet probably looked like Doug Funnies.

1631
01:12:17,480 --> 01:12:22,280
It's just the same outfit, Doug, that Nickelodeon showed Doug.

1632
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,360
Oh, oh, yeah, I know this.

1633
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:25,800
Okay, okay.

1634
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:29,640
The man was then arrested as his concealed carry license was good for Kansas, but not

1635
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,800
Oklahoma, idiot.

1636
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:35,560
The man would be later identified as Timothy McVeigh.

1637
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,720
McVeigh was arrested just 90 minutes after the bombing.

1638
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:40,720
Idiot.

1639
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:48,280
He took you six months to plan it, took you an hour and a half to get caught.

1640
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,920
This was like 10 minutes after he left, like the fucking, I don't know.

1641
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:53,920
God.

1642
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:54,920
Dum-dum.

1643
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,160
Terry Nichols would actually turn himself in once he found out that McVeigh was being

1644
01:12:58,160 --> 01:12:59,880
held on federal charges.

1645
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:01,880
So he was just like, I helped.

1646
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:05,400
Okay, that makes me think it's folly to do because as soon as he's away from the

1647
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:07,400
guy, his delusions go away.

1648
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:11,840
Or he just was so fed, like he was like, oh, if he's there, I must go too, you know,

1649
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:13,000
because they would just follow each other.

1650
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:14,440
Yeah, I guess, but I don't know.

1651
01:13:14,440 --> 01:13:17,600
Like I feel like if he was still delusional, he would be like, oh, okay, like, yeah, we

1652
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:18,600
did it.

1653
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:19,600
Like we got to, I don't know.

1654
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:25,120
But it makes me think that he's now thinking more clearly because he's not having Tim right

1655
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:28,160
next to him to influence him.

1656
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:33,600
Forteer and his partner would also give information to Forteer was the guy that went to Area 51

1657
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:35,000
with Tim that one time.

1658
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:39,680
And his partner, I think it was his wife, they would actually come forward with information

1659
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:44,960
regarding their knowledge of what was to transpire.

1660
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:51,640
They essentially cut a deal to testify against McVeigh and Nichols.

1661
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:56,280
And I don't think that any charges were brought up against Forteer.

1662
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:58,680
Good for them for saying something.

1663
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,080
Yeah, I mean, they could have said something much earlier.

1664
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,560
Apparently they knew about the bombings.

1665
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:09,840
McVeigh and Nichols were eventually charged with conspiracy to use a weapon of mass destruction,

1666
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:14,880
use of a weapon of mass destruction, destruction with the use of explosives, and eight counts

1667
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:18,760
of first degree murder for the deaths of law enforcement officers that were serving the

1668
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,040
building at the time that passed.

1669
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:23,440
Did they get second degree for the kiddos?

1670
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:30,320
They actually didn't charge anybody for the 160 other people specifically.

1671
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:34,280
I don't remember specifically why they didn't.

1672
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:40,480
I think it's just because they already knew that this would include the deaths of all

1673
01:14:40,480 --> 01:14:42,720
these people, not specifically each count.

1674
01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:47,680
Yeah, and also they made it very clear in their statements and probably with the witness

1675
01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:52,960
testimony or the character witnesses of the people that they were targeting law enforcement.

1676
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,160
So maybe that's why, because it was like the most concrete evidence that everyone else

1677
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:58,480
that got injured or killed that wasn't law enforcement.

1678
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:00,840
They might not have had a strong enough case against them.

1679
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:01,840
Just a casualty.

1680
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:02,840
Yeah, exactly.

1681
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:08,640
McVeigh tried to convince his defense to use the necessity defense, stating that this

1682
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:14,080
bombing was a necessity after the government perpetrated Ruby Ridge and Waco.

1683
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,280
Two years prior, yeah, it's a fucking necessity.

1684
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,240
If it was a necessity, it would have happened right afterwards, wouldn't it?

1685
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:21,240
That's what he's saying.

1686
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:26,840
Like he's just saying because like in order to wake people up, like he's doing this for

1687
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:27,840
the people.

1688
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:28,840
Like in a second call.

1689
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:35,920
It's necessary for retaliation against, you know, government because of Ruby Ridge and

1690
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:37,400
Waco and yeah.

1691
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,800
That's someone that doesn't want to take accountability for his actions.

1692
01:15:40,800 --> 01:15:42,360
Of course.

1693
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:47,440
Opening statements began April 24th, 1997, two years after the bombing.

1694
01:15:47,440 --> 01:15:52,960
On June 2nd, 1997, McVeigh was found guilty on all charges and would be sentenced to death.

1695
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:53,960
Good.

1696
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:58,280
McVeigh was found guilty on his charges of conspiracy and manslaughter of the eight officers

1697
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,040
that would be spared the death penalty.

1698
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:04,760
So essentially he conspired, but he wasn't there to like actually go through with the

1699
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:05,760
act.

1700
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:06,760
Yeah.

1701
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:09,280
But he knew about it and he didn't do anything about it, so it's manslaughter.

1702
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,400
I mean association, yeah, guilty by association.

1703
01:16:11,400 --> 01:16:15,320
McVeigh's team tried to appeal the death penalty, but it was quickly denied.

1704
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,840
March 8th, 1999.

1705
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,480
McVeigh then asked the Supreme Court's for approval to have his execution be televised,

1706
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:24,840
but this is also denied.

1707
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:25,840
Damn.

1708
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,000
He was like, if I'm gonna go out.

1709
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,240
He wanted it to be televised?

1710
01:16:29,240 --> 01:16:32,520
Yes, he wanted it to be televised.

1711
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:36,000
He appealed to the Supreme Court and said, I want my execution to be televised.

1712
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:39,480
Because he didn't fucking give a shit about anything else except for himself and he wanted

1713
01:16:39,480 --> 01:16:40,480
to become famous.

1714
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:41,480
He wanted to make a fucking statement.

1715
01:16:41,480 --> 01:16:42,480
Absolutely.

1716
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:43,480
No, it's so stupid.

1717
01:16:43,480 --> 01:16:46,280
No, if anything, we should kill him with no one else in the room so that he doesn't get

1718
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:47,280
any satisfaction.

1719
01:16:47,280 --> 01:16:48,280
He dies alone.

1720
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:49,280
Exactly.

1721
01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:50,280
God.

1722
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:51,280
Rest in distress.

1723
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:53,280
Rest in distress.

1724
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:55,360
But seriously, though.

1725
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:56,640
Oh, fucker.

1726
01:16:56,640 --> 01:17:02,520
Both McVeigh and Nichols were housed in the USP Florence facility in Colorado, or what

1727
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:09,720
is known as the Bombers Row as Ted Kaczynski, Louis Felipe, and Ramsay Yusef were all located

1728
01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:12,360
in the same facility at the same time.

1729
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:13,480
Bombers Row.

1730
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:15,560
I feel like that would be extra dangerous.

1731
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,760
You're getting all of these lines together.

1732
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:18,760
Put them all together.

1733
01:17:18,760 --> 01:17:21,760
If someone blows up the place and they're gonna take her around, what's the word?

1734
01:17:21,760 --> 01:17:23,760
That's actually a good point.

1735
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:24,760
Fucked up.

1736
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:25,760
Shit.

1737
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:32,480
So McVeigh would eventually be moved to the Tare House in Indiana in 1999.

1738
01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:36,760
McVeigh forfeited all of his appeals and asked for his execution to be expedited.

1739
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:38,760
Again, doesn't want to take accountability.

1740
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:39,760
No.

1741
01:17:39,760 --> 01:17:40,760
If he's like, fuck it, I'm in prison, just kill me.

1742
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,320
I might as well be dead because I'm not gonna fucking sit here for the rest of my life and

1743
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,040
think about what I had, what I did.

1744
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:46,040
Just kill me.

1745
01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:47,040
Just kill me.

1746
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:48,040
I don't even want to last long.

1747
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:49,040
Just kill me.

1748
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:50,040
I'm delivered.

1749
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:54,000
Eventually the courts landed on June 11th, 2001.

1750
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,800
McVeigh's last two meals consisted of chocolate chip ice cream.

1751
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:02,160
His final words were to be the poem Evictus by William Ernest Henley.

1752
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:08,960
The poem goes as such, Out of the night that covers me, black is the pit from pole to pole.

1753
01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:13,480
I thank whatever gods may be for my unconquerable soul.

1754
01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:17,840
In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not winced nor cried aloud.

1755
01:18:17,840 --> 01:18:22,440
Under the bludgeonings of chance, my head is bloody but unbowed.

1756
01:18:22,440 --> 01:18:26,880
Beyond this place of wrath and tears, looms but the horror of the shade.

1757
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:32,160
And yet the menace of the years finds and shall find me unafraid.

1758
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:36,520
It matters not how straight the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll.

1759
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:38,240
I am the master of my fate.

1760
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:39,880
I am the captain of my soul."

1761
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,320
End quote.

1762
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:48,360
He thinks he's so fucking deep and he's so original.

1763
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,960
Like he's, oh this will make people think.

1764
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:53,520
Fuck off.

1765
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,080
Like, ugh.

1766
01:18:55,080 --> 01:18:56,080
Ew.

1767
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:02,360
On June 11th, 2001, Timothy McVeigh died by lethal injection at 7.14 AM.

1768
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:06,920
McVeigh had always prided himself on perpetrating the worst attack on American soil, insisting

1769
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:09,480
that he would be remembered forever for this crime.

1770
01:19:09,480 --> 01:19:14,400
But just three months later, after his death, the statement would ring untrue, as the 9-11

1771
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:18,440
attacks would be committed, making it the worst attack on American soil to date.

1772
01:19:18,440 --> 01:19:22,400
I was gonna say, imagine if he lived to see 9-11, he would have been like, that's what

1773
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:26,000
I'm fucking talking about, propaganda, the government, like you wouldn't have heard the

1774
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,880
fucking end of it.

1775
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:33,640
Although he would have been fucking corrected as the deadliest attacker.

1776
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:36,920
So that's Timothy McVeigh, he's a fucking racist twat.

1777
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:37,920
Jesus.

1778
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:39,720
I'm so glad to be done with him, honestly.

1779
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:40,720
That was a lot.

1780
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:41,720
Jesus Christ.

1781
01:19:41,720 --> 01:19:42,720
It's a lot of information.

1782
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:43,720
I mean, honestly, like.

1783
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:44,720
There's way more information too.

1784
01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:45,720
Yeah, exactly.

1785
01:19:45,720 --> 01:19:49,120
Like I was trying to keep it pretty brief and we're like in an hour and a half.

1786
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,360
Yeah, an hour and a 20.

1787
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:58,800
But yeah, no, definitely like a lot, a lot of nature, of nurture, I keep saying nature.

1788
01:19:58,800 --> 01:19:59,800
Nurture.

1789
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:01,280
He had a shitty childhood.

1790
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:04,480
And when we say like, you know, people had a shitty childhood, sometimes it doesn't

1791
01:20:04,480 --> 01:20:11,000
include sexual assault or sexual abuse or physical abuse, but this is still abused nonetheless.

1792
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:12,640
Yeah, he was neglected.

1793
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:18,120
He was ignored by the people that are fundamentally programmed to love him and take care of him.

1794
01:20:18,120 --> 01:20:21,800
From a toddler, he was told that he wasn't important.

1795
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:24,760
He was given the idealation that he wasn't important, that no one cared about him.

1796
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:30,640
So he's growing up with this mindset of either I'm not, I'm worthless or I'm going to show

1797
01:20:30,640 --> 01:20:35,320
you what I'm fucking worth and what I can do and unfortunately it turned into that and

1798
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:37,760
that's fucking, it just, it sucks.

1799
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:43,200
I think it's interesting that he just craved to like belong or be part of like a specific

1800
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:44,920
type of company.

1801
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:49,920
And then for him to go into the military, I think that he realized, oh shit, I am just

1802
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:53,240
as insignificant here as I was out there.

1803
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:57,040
Because it's not what's around you, it's what's going on inside you.

1804
01:20:57,040 --> 01:21:01,160
And so he just felt like, well now that I feel like there's at least a few people that

1805
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:07,400
are my peers that recognize me for what I do, there's still always a bigger entity.

1806
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:09,800
There's always a bigger fish, right?

1807
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:11,880
And that bigger fish was the government.

1808
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:18,640
And that's, it's like one of those, you know, faceless entities that you can just be mad

1809
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:23,160
at because he can't be mad at his dad or his mom or whoever.

1810
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,120
He can be mad at that though, you know?

1811
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:26,120
Yeah.

1812
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:27,120
I think you're right.

1813
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:31,640
I think he was probably thinking for a long time about like getting back at someone, so

1814
01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:32,800
to speak.

1815
01:21:32,800 --> 01:21:38,160
And he turned it into this giant radical like, oh, I'm gonna get back at like the biggest

1816
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:39,480
thing that I can get back at.

1817
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:43,480
And that's why he, I think that's why he gravitated towards, you know, hate groups and stuff like

1818
01:21:43,480 --> 01:21:46,240
that as well because he wanted people to think like him.

1819
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:51,040
But at the end of the day, he was very isolated in his thinking because he grew up much differently

1820
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:52,040
than a lot of other people.

1821
01:21:52,040 --> 01:21:56,680
Especially even people that we talk about in the cases, a lot of them have shitty childhoods

1822
01:21:56,680 --> 01:21:58,680
but very different childhoods in him, you know?

1823
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:02,480
That again, there's visibly abuse, sexual abuse, things like that.

1824
01:22:02,480 --> 01:22:05,640
And he didn't really, he never did anything to meet the McDonald's Triad that we know

1825
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:06,640
about.

1826
01:22:06,640 --> 01:22:07,640
Yeah, not really.

1827
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:11,320
I mean, other than blowing shit up, but I mean, you know, but I don't think, I think

1828
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,720
wetting the bed is probably a different type of abuse.

1829
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:14,720
Yeah, I agree.

1830
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:18,440
But also it's, you know, he wasn't, but he wasn't a serial offender.

1831
01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:19,440
No, he wasn't a serial offender.

1832
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:20,440
He was a one time.

1833
01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:21,440
Yeah.

1834
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:23,120
I think maybe delusional disorder.

1835
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:26,880
And I'm saying that very, very lightly because I need to do research on that because I'm

1836
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,040
going to be doing it as a mental breakdown topic.

1837
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:33,080
Just giving everyone a heads up and a tease that's going to be my next mental breakdown.

1838
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,360
Yeah, definitely narcissistic personality disorder.

1839
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:42,200
And I would say that there's some, some schizo typo thing going on there.

1840
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:43,280
Something on the spectrum, I think.

1841
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:44,280
Yes, I agree.

1842
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:46,960
Because yeah, it just happened really early.

1843
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:47,960
Yeah, definitely.

1844
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:49,120
Dang, that was wild.

1845
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:50,120
I didn't.

1846
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,600
I feel like, I don't know, I just feel silly at the end of episodes sometimes and I'm

1847
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:56,080
like, oh yeah, I just realized that this case was.

1848
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:57,880
Oh shit, they're in Oklahoma?

1849
01:22:57,880 --> 01:22:58,880
Yeah.

1850
01:22:58,880 --> 01:22:59,880
What happened in Oklahoma?

1851
01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:00,880
Really weird.

1852
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,600
I thought when you said wake up, I was like, oh, I know what this is and that it wasn't.

1853
01:23:03,600 --> 01:23:06,400
And I was like, oh wait, no, I don't.

1854
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:08,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1855
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:09,240
Well, yeah, that was good.

1856
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:11,040
Thanks for listening to my case.

1857
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:15,840
I know it was a little heavy, especially with the, you know, specific content as it pertains

1858
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:24,200
to war and, you know, this racist douchebag, but it is a part of why he committed some

1859
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:25,200
of these crimes.

1860
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:26,200
Yeah, absolutely.

1861
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:27,200
It's part of the buildup, you know.

1862
01:23:27,200 --> 01:23:32,800
And I guess just get used to it because next week we're bringing you something very similar.

1863
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:33,800
Okay, great.

1864
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:34,800
Great.

1865
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:38,600
That's just funny the way that we think, but we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to do

1866
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,080
it and this next one, it's actually a request as well.

1867
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:42,600
So that's why I decided to research it.

1868
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:43,600
Oh, okay.

1869
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,720
But we will definitely shout out those during the episodes.

1870
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,680
But actually both of my cases next week are requests.

1871
01:23:47,680 --> 01:23:50,360
The mental breakdown and the case are both requests.

1872
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:51,800
So we're gonna be doing that.

1873
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:55,360
Thank you again, Louie, for becoming a Patreon patron.

1874
01:23:55,360 --> 01:23:58,480
Look out for that new episode coming out on the 29th.

1875
01:23:58,480 --> 01:24:01,120
That is for our top tier, not top tier.

1876
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:02,120
I always say tier.

1877
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:03,120
I know.

1878
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,720
Tier two and tier three Patreon members.

1879
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:07,160
It is an exclusive to y'all.

1880
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:13,360
We will have an episode release every 29th, so every month on the 29th.

1881
01:24:13,360 --> 01:24:18,440
And it's gonna be extremely just out there content.

1882
01:24:18,440 --> 01:24:22,880
Content that you guys wanna listen to, but content that is like so strong that we normally

1883
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:28,000
wouldn't tackle it on a normal issue of the podcast.

1884
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:33,600
So, and with those, it is completely ad-free and it is content warning free as well.

1885
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,120
So it's spooky.

1886
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:36,120
Yes.

1887
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,960
And just as a teaser, I will go ahead and tease that one as well.

1888
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:48,000
I am going to be doing a very bad man that had a partner, aka his, I think girlfriend

1889
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,480
or wife, that assisted him in his crimes.

1890
01:24:51,480 --> 01:24:55,720
So that is a teaser, probably closer to the 29th.

1891
01:24:55,720 --> 01:25:00,040
We will release who we are doing for the Patreon only episode, but that's all you get

1892
01:25:00,040 --> 01:25:01,040
for now.

1893
01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:02,880
Yeah, check out DignoSignKiller.com.

1894
01:25:02,880 --> 01:25:06,080
There you can find merch, resources, all that good stuff.

1895
01:25:06,080 --> 01:25:10,520
We will also have links to all of our social media on there as well, that's gonna be at

1896
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:15,400
DignoSignKiller on every platform except for Twitter, which is at KillerDiagnosis.

1897
01:25:15,400 --> 01:25:18,640
You can also find our email on there as well.

1898
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:19,800
Make sure to buy some merch.

1899
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:23,120
If you guys buy any merch, send us a picture of you guys wearing your merch.

1900
01:25:23,120 --> 01:25:24,120
I'd like to see that.

1901
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:25,120
Yeah, hashtag.

1902
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:29,280
And also make sure you get your tickets to the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival

1903
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:30,280
happening in August.

1904
01:25:30,280 --> 01:25:31,520
It's only a couple months away.

1905
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:33,040
We're so excited about it.

1906
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:36,120
And that's gonna be in Austin, Texas, August 25th through the 27th.

1907
01:25:36,120 --> 01:25:41,120
It's gonna be a week long meet and greet with yours trulys us.

1908
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:42,120
Weekend long.

1909
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:43,120
Ain't no rulies.

1910
01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:44,120
A weekend long.

1911
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:45,120
Ain't no rulies when you drink in trulys.

1912
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:46,620
Ain't no loz when you got the claws.

1913
01:25:46,620 --> 01:25:47,620
What do we say?

1914
01:25:47,620 --> 01:25:50,120
Ain't no popo when you drink in topo.

1915
01:25:50,120 --> 01:25:51,120
Jesus.

1916
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,040
Yeah, come out and see us.

1917
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,920
Enjoy some trulys with us.

1918
01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:58,640
Some popo with us.

1919
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:00,080
Some white claws only.

1920
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:02,040
And yeah, that's um...

1921
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:03,040
Okay, I'm hungry.

1922
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:04,040
I think that's it.

1923
01:26:04,040 --> 01:26:05,040
Let's go.

1924
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:06,040
It's late.

1925
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:07,040
All right.

1926
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:08,040
Love you.

1927
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:09,040
KK at night.

1928
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:10,040
Love you.

1929
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:11,040
Love you.

1930
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:12,040
Bye.

1931
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:18,160
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1932
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1933
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