Hello.
Are you trying different hellos now?
The last time was very like, hello?
Like just different hellos.
I don't know.
I'm trying out different ones.
I thought you said are you trying to run hellos?
I was like, well it's my case.
I always say hello first when it's my case.
No, I said are you trying out different ones?
Yes.
That's um, hello hello.
Hello?
Remember when I did that one?
No.
I'm your dad.
That's from Grace.
Hi everyone, my name is Kenna.
I'm Koelle and welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
I think this is like our 45th episode.
Is that really?
I think.
It's either the 44th or 45th.
Not including mental breakdowns.
Yeah, but like the actual cases.
And not including Albert Fish.
And not including Fish.
Dang, we've been doing this for quite a while.
I feel like we're kind of getting, I mean we've got, we got into the groove a long
time ago, but I feel like now it's like we have a bunch of bulk.
Now we're getting a lot of traction because people see our page and it's not like, oh
they have five episodes.
It's like, oh they have a bunch.
Like I could at least binge this for a little while until they, you know, get caught up
and then we make some new ones.
Right.
For those of you that are new listening here, we do two episodes per week.
We do one mental breakdown on Mondays and then we do a regular case on Thursdays.
If you join our tier two and three memberships on Patreon, you will have access to a third
additional bonus episode just for you on the 29th of each month.
So that just came out and that was Albert Fish.
And those are a little bit more graphic.
We try to do not so super gore on the podcast.
Of course it's true crime, so it's never going to be PG.
Right.
But not super intense because I'll tell you what, Albert Fish made me gnawsh as fuck.
Yeah, it was a little nauseating.
But yeah, well thank you guys for joining us for another episode.
I'm really excited about this one.
I feel like I said it every time now.
But before we get started, you want to shout out our short.
Check out diagnosingatkiller.com.
Where you can find links to merch, resources, and more.
Hit us up on any other social media platform at diagnosingatkiller, other than Twitter,
which is at KillerDiagnosis.
Email us, rate us, listen to us, buy our merch.
Live laugh love.
D.A.K.
Yeah.
I almost said B.T.K.
Live laugh lurk.
That's funny.
I like that.
Yeah, and then just a reminder to people that are, again, new.
And a reminder, I guess, an announcement.
We are going to be hosts at the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival in Austin, Texas
in August.
So get your tickets.
You could access the discount code on our website.
Well, it's drinking coffee.
You can access the discount code on our website.
You get 15% off of that.
And I think that's all we got, right?
Yeah.
All the discounts and all the cool stuff.
Other than that, just check out Movication Podcast.
Check out Lady or Scare in Us podcast.
We recently did collaborations with them.
Yes.
So yeah.
Okay.
Shall we do it?
Yes, I'm excited.
I think this is the quickest we've jumped into a case in a while.
Give me the content warning.
This is going to be a one.
Content warning.
This episode contains depictions of child abuse, bullying, and self-harm.
If this episode is not for you, we encourage you to find one of our other ones.
Remember your mental health is very important and we love you.
Love you.
Bye.
Okay.
Shall we get into eating?
Okay.
So today, we are going to be talking about not one, but two people.
And their names are Richard Matt and David Sweat.
It's literally spelled like sweat.
Matt and sweat.
Like sweaty Matt.
Like SWEAT.
That's sweat, right?
Yeah.
We'll never call him sweat because it's sweaty.
Sweaty, daddy.
Do they sound familiar?
Sweaty, daddy.
Not daddy, daddy, but sweaty daddy.
I mean, he was probably quite sweaty.
Yeah, he was probably both.
Anyway, that's not this topic today.
Okay.
We are talking about Richard Matt and David Sweat.
Okay.
Matt, no.
Wait.
Richard David.
Richard Matt and David Sweat.
Richard and David.
Okay.
Richard Matt, David Sweat.
John, okay.
So we are going to be talking about Richard first.
Okay.
So we're just going to focus on him for a second.
Okay.
Do I know this?
I might know it.
It's going to come full circle later on.
So you might.
Oh, is it?
Okay.
No, never mind.
Go ahead.
I would not be surprised if you knew it.
Okay.
Richard William Matt was born on June 25th, 1966 in Rona Wanda, New York, or Rona Wanda.
He was the youngest of two boys, his older brother being Robert Matt, which is so funny.
He's like, Dose Nome Brays.
Actually,
Matt and Richard Matt.
Richard Matt is Trace Nome Brays because his name is Richard William Matt.
Trace 3 first name.
Trace Nome Brays.
When Richard was just an infant, he was reportedly left in a hot car for a significant amount
of time.
But this is from one source.
It's not widely reported.
However, kind of seems like it might be true.
I was watching videos like that yesterday about like people rescuing babies from hot
cars.
It's fucking terrifying.
How do you do that?
That's so gross.
This one woman was like, I left my baby in the backseat because she was sleeping and
I didn't want to wake her up, but she left the car running.
She's like, well, I didn't leave her in the heat.
It's like, yeah, but anybody can just steal your baby.
Steal your child.
Yeah.
Baby nap.
Mom and dad's new car says, like when you turn it off, it says like check rear items
for, or rear seat for items or whatever.
Yeah.
Like make sure you got everything.
Yeah.
That's fucking so lame that you have to put that to make people not forget their fucking
kids.
Well, there's that one dad that left his kid in the car, a swore that like he'd left,
like he didn't know for like 12 hours.
No.
He went to work.
Oh, and then he came halfway.
Like the whole point was like, they were saying, how do you not know that you had a baby in
the car because he went to his car halfway, like during lunch halfway through his day
and then still went back inside and like worked.
Okay.
That was on purpose.
I think so.
Just speculating.
I don't even know the case.
That's awful.
So there's not much known about Richard's biological parents since both of the boys were
put up in foster care early in life.
Okay.
But Richard's biological father, Robert, was known as having a significant criminal record.
Hmm, it's already happening.
So clearly his parents probably weren't maybe the greatest if they were put into foster
care and they left him in a hot car.
Yeah, exactly.
Great.
So Richard's father, Robert, his brother's name is Robert, but his father's name is
also Robert.
So Robert Sr. had been previously arrested for things including assault, burglary, criminal
possession of stolen property and issuing bad checks.
Okay, maybe not the best parents.
I mean issuing bad checks, sure, but assault.
No thanks.
Like that's excusable.
White color crimes.
Sto-stupid.
Robert, Matt is believed to be dead, his father, but there's no substantial record on him
again, so we really don't know.
But I'm sure he is by now.
Yeah, probably.
His kid was born in 66.
In 66.
He's probably dead.
Yeah.
Richard and his brother were taken in by Vern Eden and his wife, who was not named.
This is their foster parents.
So they would actually enroll both of the boys in Little League.
Like, ugh, so sweet.
Like, okay, we're gonna take you and make you.
Do you want babies?
Is that weird to me right now?
You want your babies in Little League?
Well, my babies are definitely gonna be in Little League for sure.
My boys.
I just think it's sweet that they just immediately kind of got to try to get them socialized.
They put them in sports, and you know, clearly they're like, they're not just like, okay,
you know, just have you, just deal with it.
So beginning life on a rough patch, it's no surprise that Richard was known for having
behavioral issues throughout grade school, which included terrorizing children on the
school bus.
Oh.
And I was like, I was so scared of when your son got not bullied, but like talked to a
certain way on the school bus.
And I was like, I just want to talk to him.
Who is he?
Yeah, I just want to talk to him.
Oh, is it kid's name?
No, I didn't even want to know.
I didn't want to know the kid's name because if I knew, it would be a problem.
Yeah, he lives in our neighborhood.
So yeah, I know.
Where's his house?
So one of Richard's childhood friends who chose to remain anonymous stated about him
at this time, quote, funny kid, always funny, always had a big smile on his face, but you
know, just couldn't stay out of trouble.
He tried to beat me up at the playground.
That's the first time I ever met him.
That was my first initiation with Rick Matt.
He was just bully.
Once I got into ninth grade and stuff, my father started helping him out and stuff.
He came to live with my dad for a little while, and that wasn't the only time he tried to
help him.
He was always trying to help him ever since he was 12 years old.
So this kid clearly knew him throughout childhood.
When Richard was in his early teens, he stole a houseboat and was sent to a group home after
being caught.
So early teens, I guess he'd maybe he chose that he didn't want to be in the foster home
or maybe the parents were like, okay, clearly like we can't, we don't know how to handle
his behavioral issues.
They want to send him to a group home.
Sure, that might be the best route for him to go.
This would not last long, however, and he would escape this group home by stealing a
horse and riding it off into the sunset.
In the 70s?
Yeah.
After escaping the group home, he hid from capture in Allegheny State Park, if I said
that wrong, sorry, New Yorkers.
Although he seemed to love the thrill of life, his behavior was most definitely an act, and
Richard was actually very depressed and lost under the surface.
This same childhood friend who remained anonymous had had a father who was close with Richard
as a child, like I said, and he treated Richard as like a second son.
This father would later recall an event of Richard's childhood that scarred him.
When Richard was just 15, he had been in and out of foster homes so many times that he
had had enough.
The father recalled his incident, quote, Rick opened the door.
He was standing in the door with his hands down at his sides, facing his hands open,
and he had a knife in one hand, and he had cut himself 30 to 40 times all over his wrists,
arms, there was blood all over the place.
Oh my God.
And quote, God, it's so awful.
It's like this kid that you see as like a son and you just go to like greet him one
day and he's like.
Yeah.
Bleeding.
Hands out.
Oh, that's so scary.
I know.
This boy's father would describe Richard as both a jekyll and Hyde, but in the end he
was more tempted by his destructive side.
Richard's friend would later recall as well, quote, he told my father at one point he wanted
to be a police officer, you know, when he was younger, 15 years old or whatever.
But that side to him, it was almost like an addiction.
Hmm.
Referring to like his dark side.
Yeah.
Richard and his brother seemed to be criminals from the very beginning, almost as if they
were born into it.
On top of Richard's crimes, Robert had his own list of arrests from past crimes.
He was arrested four times between 1985 and 1989 for burglary, larceny, and assault, although
the two brothers were not known to have committed any crimes together.
So they just became just like their father.
Yeah.
Or at least Richard's father.
I'm not sure if they have the same dad.
Richard was seen as a low grade criminal that was usually involved in burglaries and thefts,
and he got really into drugs during this time as well, quickly developing a reputation
for violence.
He would be arrested eight different times in the late 1980s and early 90s, and even
gained a nickname with the police department, Ricky Matt.
Ricky Matt.
Oh, Ricky Matt.
Ricky Bobby.
Exactly.
He was taken into custody for one or more of these crimes and was serving time.
However, he was still battling with his alter ego of wanting to become part of law enforcement,
and this, along with him probably getting a lesser sentence, gave way for Richard to
become a criminal informant for several years in the 1980s.
Well, it seems like it would work out.
Yeah.
It's a little bit of both, right?
Mm-hmm.
Tauna Wanda police captain, Frederick Foles, who was a patrolman when Richard first became
known around town, said that Richard was just a small-time thug.
He said, quote, one time he beat up a girl pretty bad.
He got charged for assault in the second degree.
That's a felony.
But the things he was charged with later in life, wow.
Ooh.
Poor shadowing.
In June 1986, Richard climbed a fence in the Erie County Correctional Facility, where
he was being held for a one-year sentence for assault and escaped.
Richard was able to evade police capture for four whole days, but he made a mistake when
he hopped on a freight train to his brother Robert's house in Tauna Wanda, where he was
ultimately apprehended.
I was going to say, what do you think the police are going to do?
Immediately go to your family.
Immediately going to go to your family.
So he was able to escape again this jail because he was serving sometime.
No, he's back in jail.
Even though he fucking escaped, Richard was somehow able to remain a criminal informant
for the police.
I guess they don't care as long as they're getting their guys, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, you escaped to keep giving us info, you know?
If anything, it's a good story because, you know what I mean?
They're going to be like, oh, did you spend any time in jail or prison?
And be like, yeah, actually, I just got out or whatever.
Like, it's all real.
I just escaped.
In 1991, Richard became involved in a murder for hire scheme when he met fellow inmate
David Testar.
Is Richard blonde?
No.
Okay.
Well, I don't know.
He has like, he had like really short hair in the photos I saw.
Yeah.
But it looked dark.
David was a California native who was actually married to the granddaughter of a Warner Bros.
founder.
Oh.
And this isn't the same David from earlier.
This is a different David.
It's a different David.
Oh, there's always so many David.
I know.
What was that one we were listening to where the guy had like two David's that he was
married?
Yeah, it was Catherine.
It was David, David and John-John.
Oh, it was Catherine.
I'm speaking for some reason.
It was a male.
Yeah, it was David, David and John-John.
David, David and John and John.
Yeah.
But somebody, no, who else had, it was a man that was in a relationship with a David.
Oh, the Patrick Hurney?
Yeah, I think it was Hurney.
Yeah.
So, David, this guy, had found himself in jail after allegations that he embezzled $1.6
million from his wife.
Wow.
Again, she's the granddaughter of Warner Bros.
So wealthy.
And in the 70s?
80s.
This isn't probably the early 90s.
Oh, early 90s, my bad.
Richard and David would become quote friends while in prison and Richard was able to convince
David to put up Richard's $15,000 bail.
He would have been-
Yeah, Richard told David, hey, put up my bail for me.
So, I can go take care of business for you on the outside.
Okay.
This would have been 33 grand today.
David agreed to pay Richard's bail with the agreement that once Richard was a free man,
he would kill David's wife, ultimately ruining his upcoming trial about his embezzlement.
So, he's like, if my wife's dead, then there's no one to finger me for the crime I haven't
got to do.
Yeah.
I hear people do that though, or they try to at least.
Yeah.
Isn't this super interesting though that I just did a contract killing?
And then it came up.
Also, just to put the timeline into perspective, Richard is only 25 years old at this time.
LOL.
He's asking a fucking 25 year old to go and become a master assassin.
The novice.
Yeah, exactly.
He's the novice.
Along with killing David's wife, Richard was also asked to kill a former business partner
of the Telstars.
So, I guess another person that could finger him for the crime.
What are the Telstars?
That's David's last name.
Oh, oh, I'm sorry.
It's okay.
So, David paid Richard's bail and Richard was released for the time being on charges
of rape and assault.
So again, he's not like, I'm sure this is clear, but he's not like not going to get
tried.
He's just out until he waits for his hit.
Yeah, it's just a bond.
Yeah.
Instead of following through with his promises to kill David's wife and old business partner,
of course, Richard immediately went to authorities to turn David in for trying to hire him.
Dang, that's savage.
He's an informant.
Yeah, it's true.
Well, and he could use the time off too.
Yeah, exactly.
Richard told authorities that David, quote, told him where to find the intended victims
and what to do with their bodies.
He also stated that David's instructions, quote, were to burn Desiree's body so that
no one could identify it.
Oh, that's so fucked up.
That's his wife, obviously.
Yeah, right.
So no one could identify it.
Like, I guess my wife just disappeared.
I guess she really doesn't want to make these allegations against me.
Yeah, I guess she doesn't want to.
Yeah.
She really went into hiding because she was so scared of me.
Richard expressed his concerns to police that he thought that there may be a, quote, backup
killer, like in case he bailed.
Yeah.
So police issued him a bulletproof vest just in case.
It's like, dumb and dumber.
What if they shot me in the head?
That was a risk we were willing to take.
Yeah, exactly.
But they're like, yeah, here, just thanks for your cooperation.
Here's a bulletproof fucking vest just in case you got God.
Just for fun.
Yeah, it's nice to play dress up.
So like you said, Richard probably thought that he would be receiving a lesser sentence
for giving this information to police.
But they didn't alter his sentence at all.
They were just like, thanks for the info.
Get fucked.
Jog on.
Here's a bulletproof vest for your troubles.
Yeah, wear it in prison.
David Telstar would later plead guilty to promising Richard Matt an additional $100,000 after
completing the killings.
David was sentenced to five years in prison for this.
Five years.
Cute.
Five years.
Yep.
At some point while he was awaiting trial, Richard would meet a woman by the name of
V. Harris, and the two would quickly have a child together.
Never know what the...
I know.
Never know.
So she would quickly become pregnant with his child.
Although he would not see his child for a while after he was born, V would give birth
to their son Nicholas in 1992.
Is it VEE?
Yes.
OK.
Nicholas would later say about his father, quote, my father broke into my mother's
house in Tonawanda and beat her.
I was an infant when it happened.
Everybody is born innocent, but he was raised around crime.
Then he went into foster care.
Wow.
So Nicholas essentially grew up knowing that his father was a bad guy.
Yeah.
Richard would be released from prison in the late 1990s and was out and about up to his
usual antics very shortly after.
I know.
On December 3rd, 1997, Richard Matt and another man by the name of Lee Bates would kidnap
Richard's 76-year-old former boss, William Rickerson, from his north Tonawanda home.
What the fuck?
After attacking and subduing him, Richard forced William into the trunk of Lee's car.
The reason that he wanted to kidnap his boss is because Richard believed that William had
access to a large amount of money and they wanted to like torture him to like steal it
from him.
Like get bank information or find out where most of his money is.
The two, along with William in the trunk, would drive for nearly 27 hours and periodically
would stop to beat William trying to get information out of him.
That's so fucked up.
He's an old man.
I know.
After over a day of this, Richard became impatient not hearing anything about this stash
of money that didn't even fucking exist by the way.
What?
He just thought he did.
He thought that he was rich.
Richard became impatient and unfortunately he would break William's neck with his bare
hands killing him.
Do you think he meant to do that?
I'm not sure if he meant to kill him.
I think he meant, I mean he meant to strangle him obviously.
Yeah.
But I don't know if he, because I got like two different accounts.
It was like, he knew he wasn't going to get any information out of him but he couldn't
let him go so he killed him or he was trying to get information and accidentally killed
him.
Yeah.
But either way he was probably going to fucking kill him.
Yeah.
Okay.
I guess that was like, yeah essentially what I was asking is like if he meant to, like
did he go in with the attention of knowing he was going to kill him?
Honestly, he's the only one that knows that.
Yeah.
Richard then dismembered William's body with a hacksaw and disposed of the parts into
the Niagara River.
Jesus.
I know.
Richard would then flee to New York State to avoid capture.
After hearing of this crime and later on realizing it was Richard Matt that committed
it, Lieutenant on the North Tana Wanda Niagara County Forest in 1997, Randy Zucala was interviewed.
Randy and Richard actually grew up down the street from each other and Richard was no
stranger to Randy when he found out about this crime.
Randy grew up in North Tana Wanda and Richard as we know was born in Tana Wanda.
These two cities are commonly referred to as the Twin Cities as the Erie Canal is the
only thing that separates them.
Oh, okay.
So they're two different places.
I had to like really look at it.
It's like Virginia and West Virginia.
Yeah, but cities.
So even though the two were in different cities, they were very close in age and Richard had
a reputation growing up that Randy quickly noticed.
And again, Randy's the future Lieutenant.
Oh, oh, yeah.
Oh, okay.
He's the future Lieutenant of North Tana Wanda.
I see.
I kind of like said that quickly earlier.
Sorry.
Just to be clear.
No, it's okay.
I thought the Sergeant was talking about Randy to...
No, no, no, Richard.
The Sergeant is Randy.
Is Randy.
Yes.
He's the same guy.
He's the Sergeant.
Randy would later say about Richard, quote, he would terrorize kids on the school bus,
friends of mine knew him.
He would just terrorize people.
Even in elementary, junior high, he had issues, end quote.
So back to the crime we had just talked about.
Richard had just murdered his former boss and dumped his body into the river and fled
to New York State.
Richard would leave this crime with a wedding ring, some credit cards, and less than $100
in cash.
Totally worth somebody's life.
Totally worth it, especially when he was like expecting this giant payout.
Maybe you should like get your fucking facts straight and realize that this man has no
money.
For sure.
Not no money, but you know what I mean?
Like people wouldn't have nearly as much as he thought he did.
The same month in December of 1997, a fisherman made a grisly discovery when he came across
William Rickerson's body washed up on shore.
Randy Sucala was on the case.
He stated about the discovery, quote, it was kind of a strange one.
It was a missing person at first, then we looked through the house, found some evidence,
there was blood in the house, but nobody.
Hmm.
And quote.
Shortly after this discovery, Richard would flee to Texas, where he would then cross the
Rio Grande into Matamoros in Mexico.
Less than two months after Richard murdered William, he found himself in trouble yet again.
On February 20th, 1998, Richard was in a bar at the same time as fellow American Charles
Arnold Peralta.
Again, this is in Mexico.
Okay.
Charles was an engineer that had been employed at Rancho de Mexico, a local factory.
That was my best.
But you could do it.
But you could totally do it.
I know.
I did the hand.
With the Spanish, I do the hand, but with the Italian, I do the hand.
The hand.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Like, yeah.
Especially you're doing like an okay.
Yeah.
Okay, okay.
Ro.
So anyway, yeah, we were both fucking Spanish and I still get like uncomfy doing my Spanish
accent.
You don't do the uncomfy.
At one point in the night, Charles headed to the restroom where Richard followed him
and began stabbing him in the back and abdomen, attempting to rob him of $300.
Because again, that's worth someone's life.
That's definitely what I want to do.
Like, okay, as I'm being stabbed, my first thought is to hand over the cash.
Give you $300.
Yeah.
Just without even being threatened.
Yeah.
Not like, hey, give me all the money in your pocket.
You're actively being stabbed and the first thing that you're thinking of doing is going
through your pockets.
No.
Here's the money.
Gosh.
Unfortunately, Charles would be stabbed a total of nine times and he would not survive
stabbing.
Oh my God.
This is at a bar in Mexico.
Yeah.
My next sentence is after this public ass murder.
Public ass murder.
Richard tried to flee the scene of the crime but was quickly apprehended by police.
When questioned by officers, Richard told them that his name was Wayne M. Schimpf, who
was actually the name of his half-brother.
What a dick.
Oh God, that's fucking Angel Rosendaz.
Yeah.
It's my uncle.
I am my own uncle.
Richard would be convicted of this murder and given a prison sentence of 23 years in a
fucking Mexican prison.
Well, yeah, no, that's awesome.
I mean, fuck.
Well, you fucked up here.
Yeah.
You're gonna stay here.
Don't fuck up in Mexico, y'all.
That's the rule.
While imprisoned in Mexico, Richard was nearly able to escape by climbing to the roof before
being shot by guards.
Oh, because they don't fuck around.
They don't.
His son would later say about this attempted escape, quote, he's been shot like nine times.
It's like they can't kill him.
He's like 50 cents.
Yeah.
Exactly.
They can't keep him down.
While Richard was in jail in Mexico, American authorities were working tire authorities?
I don't know why that sounds weird.
I want to say authorities.
I tell many, many authority.
I heard in the hitman episode, I said something that we just spoke about.
I said, spoke about and you didn't fucking correct me.
Just let everyone know.
I'm sorry.
I know how to speak.
I said, spoke about.
I was like cringing in my car.
I was like, oh my God.
Well, sometimes we, and we've set up a forum the podcast like with the headsets on and
then like just listening through the microphone and everything.
Sometimes you don't catch it until you listen back and you're talking so much and so fast
like it doesn't even register.
Like I was saying inner communications for speech and it's interpersonal communications
and I'm an idiot that said inner, inner communications.
I'm over here.
Fuck it.
I'm over here talking to myself.
Inner communication.
I'm over here.
Air four base.
I also remember a long time ago when we like first started doing the mental breakdowns.
You said anti personality was sort of like eight times to the end.
Oh, anti social.
Yeah.
I don't know why.
My brain just abbreviates things like that.
It's the opposite of a personality disorder.
Anyway, authorities, American, American authorities were working tirelessly to get to the bottom
of the discovery of the body in 97.
Patrons was able to lead police to Lee Bates who would be tried with the murder of William
Rickerson.
In order to receive a plea deal, Lee did give up Richard Matt's name as his accomplice
and the one who ultimately killed William.
Lee Bates was sentenced to 15 years for his role in the crime.
How can you prove that Matt did it though?
I'm not sure.
Because, yeah, Ricky Matt did it because it, you know, it's just hearsay at that point.
Yeah, but they also have his DNA.
I was there.
So they might have found additional DNA at the crime.
Yeah.
And he was like, they may be able to match it to him because he's been in the database
before, you know.
Yeah.
I'm not sure.
But after Lee's testimony and gruesome evidence, police had enough to charge Richard
Matt with second degree murder.
He also stabbed a motherfucker to death in a bar, so it's not atypical.
But they don't know that because he's in Mexico.
Oh, I see.
So this is happening while he's in Mexico and he's in prison in Mexico.
I see.
So just for the listeners, if anybody is not sure what the difference is between first
and second degree murder, because everyone didn't know that at one point, first degree
is when it's planned, second degree is when it's not.
And the reason they want to charge him with second is because we think it might have been
an accidental killing, or he decided after the fact to kill him rather than just kidnap
him.
William.
Yes.
Okay.
Well, so they don't know he's in prison in Mexico?
No.
I don't know where he is at all.
So they're actively, they're going to be looking for him at this point?
Yes.
Because Lee's in prison for it?
Yes.
So the only catch was they had no clue where Richard was.
Throughout the next several years, Richard remained in prison in Mexico while American
authorities were scratching their head trying to figure out where the fuck this guy was.
In 2007, so like 10 years later, Mexican authorities contacted American authorities to say that
they were going to extradite a drug cartel kingpin that was giving them so much trouble
in prison, they didn't want to take care of him any longer.
Oh, wow.
They knew he was American, so like, fuck you, like you're going back to America because
we don't want you.
Yeah.
Reporter Rick Pfeiffer stated about this sudden transfer, quote, he was being flown back
to Texas and the second this guy gets off the plane, it took federal marshals almost
a day to figure out who the guy was.
It was Richard Matt.
A drug cartel kingpin.
Yeah.
Sorry, what?
What the fuck happened?
So within the last 10 years in jail, he's become a fucking kingpin for the cartel.
He just owns the cartel.
From prison.
Quote, this is still the reporter.
There had been no discussion with the American government about extradition.
He had just been such a difficult prisoner.
If you can imagine a guy who seemed too difficult to stay in a Mexican prison.
Seriously.
I'm just about to say that.
Wild.
One of Richard's ex-girlfriends, Joanna Capredo, testified against him.
She stated that Richard casually smoked a cigarette as he confessed to breaking his former boss's
neck.
She also said that he stated that it was an accident.
She also said about Richard, quote, Ricky would dominate.
Like what the fuck does that mean?
What does that mean?
Adding that Lee Bates, quote, was pretty much a follower.
He just dominates.
He's out here just dominatin'.
It was also noted that lawmen who worked with Richard and against him during his trial
noticed his inherent ways of manipulation and charm with women.
Detective David Bentley testified against Richard and stated, another David, quote,
when he's cleaned up, he's very handsome and in all frankness, very well endowed.
He gets girlfriends any places he goes.
Ew.
I'm like, how do you know that?
I saw it once.
He testified against him and he's like, he got a big dick.
That's why his nicknames dick.
Not because it's a nickname for Richard or anything.
Sorry, I have to say that.
He's testifying against him and he still says he has a big dick.
He's like, yo, shout out.
How you doing, bro?
How you doing?
That's funny.
Testifying.
He's like, yo, this guy's definitely guilty, but also, he got a pancake.
Okay, I'm done.
Richard's public defender, Matthew Penn, also testified in court, quote, I can't explain
it.
I can see him as a guy who would have a lot of friends.
Rick Matt was a fun but dangerous guy to hang out with.
Rick Matt.
Rick dick Matt.
With Lee Bates damning testimony 10 years prior, along with all the other testimonies from
various people, Judge Sarah Sheldon had more than enough reason to charge Richard with
the maximum sentence for secondary murder with no chance of parole until 2032.
So this is of William, the murder of William.
Yes.
Okay.
And the judge was noted as saying that this decision was, quote, frankly, not a difficult
decision.
Yeah.
Obviously.
He's a career criminal.
Yeah.
His whole life.
In March of 2008, Richard was sent to Niagara County jail, but during his trial, authorities
suspected that he had planned, that he had a plan to escape from the jail, and he was
made to wear a stun belt and snipers were posted outside of the courtroom to prevent
his escape.
Should have brought your, anywhere, motherfucker.
Should have brought your vest.
Your bulletproof vest.
As long as it'll shoot you in the head.
Shortly after, in June of 2008, he was transferred to Clinton Correctional Facility in Danimora,
Clinton County.
After hearing of this shocking break in the William Rickerson case, Randy Suscala was
noted as saying about Richard, quote, looking at his mugshot in the paper.
He's just got the look.
He's looking through the camera.
It's like looking at a photo of Charles Manson.
Same thing.
Probably.
Ew.
Disgusting.
I love the quotes though.
They're so like in-tunes, right?
Okay.
We're going to change gears a little bit here.
And now that Richard is in prison, we're going to talk about David Swett.
Sweaty.
Sweaty Betty.
Now just to let everyone know, there's significantly less known about David's childhood than Richard's.
Okay.
David Paul Swett, oh, he was almost traced to Nome Brays too.
David Paul Swett was born on June 14th, 1980, to Pamela Swett.
His mother was raising David along with two sisters when he was born, so his father was
not known.
He wasn't around when he was born.
David was born and raised in the Binghamton metropolitan area.
By all accounts, David had a troubled childhood that was littered with violent tendencies,
just like Richard, just like Ricky.
His mother, Pamela, would later admit, quote, he really wasn't raised into the best society.
We drank a lot.
We partied a lot.
His life was into turmoil.
Aw, that's his mother saying that.
And his father wasn't around, but she did have like a boyfriend that would come around
and they would get really drunk all the time.
At nine years old, David was sent to live with his uncle in Florida when he became too
much for his mom to handle.
He had thrown knives at his mother and also thrown a rocking chair on another occasion.
One of his sisters, Tilly, said of Pamela, quote, she had two nervous breakdowns because
of him when he was little and she can't take anymore.
Well, I think, I don't know, I think I'd be pretty like desensitized or pissed if your
mom was like constantly wasted all the time.
And that was her saying that.
If she's willing to admit that, it's probably worse than what she's saying it is, you know?
For sure.
Like, you know, when you go to the doctor and they're like, how often do you drink and
you're like three times a week?
Like, okay, seven times a week.
Yeah, I know.
Like, you're not going to sell them.
How many, yeah, or like when an officer pulls you over and you're like, how many of you
had to drink tonight?
Two.
It's great.
Four.
You're stumbling.
Doubling.
Doubling to give it to the next person.
Tilly also stated that David had a dual personality, quote, he could be a nice boy, but when the
little bit of hellion in him came out, it came out full force.
Gee, little hellion.
I know.
But full force.
At nine.
Come on.
Pamela's boyfriend, while David was young, stated about David that he would burn his
toy cars or smash them with rocks and hammers.
What the fuck?
Yeah.
I'd be so pissed.
It's like, bitch, you know how much that was?
I know.
Fifteen dollar fucking car.
You think fucking toy cars grow on trees?
No.
They get made in the factory.
Yeah.
Because they're plastic.
I don't know why I said that.
They're not made of wood.
They're not.
Duh.
Tilly also, that's so stupid.
Dilly also added, quote, he was rude to anyone and everyone when the mood hit him.
Like it's like he could snap on it on a dime.
No.
While living with his aunts and uncle, David stole and wrecked his aunt's car and was
soon after sent into foster care.
Sound familiar?
Yeah.
By the time they were in their late teens, David and his cousin, Jeffrey A. Nabinger,
Jr. were spending most of their nights on the streets.
The two had trouble holding down jobs and were frequently selling weed to make some
fast cash.
Weed.
But when?
David was known as elaborately planning burglaries and him, along with Jeffrey, were both arrested
several times in the late 90s and sent to prison.
Sounds like Richard Ramirez kind of when he would run around the streets all the time.
Yeah.
Although they were peep-tomming.
So peep-tomming.
Tom peeping.
Wait.
Peep-tomming.
Yeah, peep-tomming is better.
It's like, wait, I really think of it.
In 1996, David and Jeffrey tried to steal computers and cash from a Binghammon group
home where he was living.
Their plan was to wear balaclavas, ski masks, and lock a woman in a storage room.
And part of this plan was stealing blueprints and the layout of a home.
I guess they were gonna like hit the home second.
Yeah.
The two were arrested for this after it was unsuccessful.
During the hearing, Parole Board Commissioner Vanessa Ann Clark said to David, quote, you
had a big plan to go in there and tie up the lady who worked there and steal the stuff.
Were you watching too much television or something, Mr. Sweat?
David replied, quote, yes.
Miss Clark, quote, why did you do that?
David replied, quote, I was 16.
I felt like it would make me look better to my friends if I did that.
What kind of friends were you hanging out with?
Says Mrs. Clark.
David responds, Troublemakers.
Like you're the fucking one.
Okay.
Oh, you've been watching too much TV recently.
He's like, I have a mental disorder.
He's like, I live on the streets.
Bitch.
It's not been easy, okay?
My mom is an asshole.
Do you think I own a TV?
Is that what you're saying?
Like fuck.
No, why do you think I was trying to fucking steal one?
The two being David and Jeffrey were sentenced to five years of intensive supervision probation
for this crime.
Okay.
Because they didn't follow through with it, I guess.
The Broom County court judge, Martin E. Smith, said about this, quote, the conduct in which
he was engaging was like, what are you thinking?
It was the dumbest stuff ever.
When he sentenced the two, the judge referred to David and Jeffrey as, quote, teenage idiots.
It's like, dude, way to fucking like make them feel worse.
Like maybe try to help them.
Yeah.
Maybe try to rehabilitate.
You know, that's what the fucking prison system is supposed to be for.
Yeah, exactly.
No, we're all just fucking idiots.
They're just dumb, dumb teenage stuff.
Yeah, seriously.
Teenage is being kids.
You watch too much TV.
You play too many video games.
You play Grand Theft Auto.
It's a real world.
This is a real world, boys.
You can't be teenage.
It is.
You're gonna be a teenage idiot.
Teenage.
Turn back.
He's like, smells like a teenager.
Smells like teenage spirit in here.
Teenage is just playing like every song about teenagers.
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That song probably wasn't even out yet, actually.
No, it wasn't.
That came in the early 2000s, right?
Teen spirit is hilarious.
Yeah, that's what it was.
Teen spirit is stupid.
Current smells like teen spirit.
Okay.
A year later, David was convicted of second degree burglary when he and Jeffrey tried to
steal from his cousin's landlady.
Like, why do they keep...
Okay, that's...
Okay, it was a little dumb to start victimizing people that you actually fucking know and
you know what I mean?
They know you.
Yeah.
Like, come on, maybe not do that.
Yeah.
I mean, don't do it to strangers either.
I'm not saying...
I think it's okay the other way, but like, come on, you're just gonna ask them for it.
So this would be the first time that David entered prison, like actual prison.
Even though he was in prison, he was still scheming and authorities actually found a
list of future crimes in his cell.
Oh my God.
He just had a pen and paper.
Just a pen and paper.
Hey, do you think I could borrow a pen and paper?
Yeah, why?
What's up?
Nothing.
My hit list.
Just a list.
Just a list of names.
In the early morning of July 4th, 2002, David, Jeffrey, and a third man by the name of Sean
DeVall made a new burglary plan.
So he's out now.
Yeah.
The three burglarized a fireworks store in Great Bend, Pennsylvania to steal firearms
and not fireworks.
I'm not sure.
I guess they had both, apparently.
They had guns.
Yes.
Unless it was a firearms store and I misread it, but it said fireworks store to steal firearms.
Either way, they stole guns.
Well, you know, I wonder if it's because it's technically an explosive because Jersey's
that way too.
Yeah.
That's what Steinmanx is saying, that fireworks are illegal in New Jersey because they're
because they contain gunpowder.
Oh, I don't know.
So I'm wondering if it's not like a fireworks slash firearms store, like you said, because
it's technically an explosive.
Because they have the license.
Yeah.
It makes sense.
Their robbery was a success and the three traveled back to New York.
Again, that happened in Pennsylvania.
Oh, so that's even, yeah, it's close to Jersey, anyways.
So the three pulled into a parking lot where they began transferring the stolen firearms
from one vehicle to another.
I guess they were like moving it.
But while they were doing this, they were spotted by a Broom County Sheriff's deputy
by the name of Kevin Tarsia.
Kevin approached the men to question what they were doing.
And without hesitation, David opened fire on the officer before he could get close enough
to speak to them.
Kevin was hit multiple times falling to the ground but still alive.
Oh my God.
David would then run Kevin over with his vehicle to try to kill him.
After realizing that the officer was still alive after this.
Fucking bad bitch alert.
Jeffrey shot him two more times in the face, ultimately ending up like.
Oh, God.
I know.
That's fucking awful.
Like, that's a lot to experience in the last moments.
I'm sorry.
He was shot a total of 15 times, which means he was shot 13 times and then run over and
was still alive and then shot twice more to kill him.
Oh, that poor man.
God, I know.
And how old is David at this point?
He would be 22 at this point.
So a child.
The three men would take off from the crime scene.
I just called him a child and I said men.
And they would not be tracked down for nearly five days after this.
God, this poor officer is just in the parking lot.
During their trials, David and Jeffrey both pleaded guilty to first degree murder and
received life sentences without the possibility of parole to avoid the death penalty.
Sean, who cooperated with authorities from the start and didn't physically harm Kevin,
was sentenced to five years in prison plus five years of supervised release for, of course,
association and then stealing the firearms.
So David and the other guy, sorry, what was his name?
Jeffrey.
Oh, the cousin.
Yes.
The first shot.
Yes.
The officer.
David shot him first and then Kevin shot him last.
I see.
David would be sent to Clinton Correctional Facility in Danimora, Clinton County.
Dun, dun, dun.
As I'm sure you can tell by now, Richard and David would become homies while in prison
together.
Best friends.
Be put in adjoining cells.
And although David had never escaped in the past, Richard surely had, and this time he
was looking for a partner in crime.
Dun, dun, dun.
Just to be clear, this is Richard from the very beginning and David, they are now in
adjoining cells in the same prison.
Yes.
The two serve their time.
Would quickly get married.
Yes, the two would quickly get married.
No, that's funny.
Well, you'll see.
The two serve their time on the quote honor block, which was housing gained for good behavior
that allows for greater movement, the right to cook meals for yourself, and even the benefit
of wearing street clothes while in your cell.
This is death row.
This is life.
Or sorry, life, not death row.
So they're just like living in, like they just like an apartment.
And I'm sorry, good behavior.
You murdered a fucking cop and you're here?
Like what?
Another benefit of this block was bigger cells given to those inmates who had no infractions
on their record for numerous years at a time.
Richard got to prison in what, 2008.
Yeah.
And then now David in 2002, which is funny because he's before him.
But this is now 2015.
So they've both been in good behavior, like nothing on their record for a while.
So we're going to jump forward, like I said, to June 6th, 2015.
Guards were doing their usual 5.30 AM rounds when they noticed that Richard, Matt and David
Swett were not waking up, despite numerous attempts at alerting them for rounds.
Ugh, it's like a Shawshank moment.
Upon entering the cells, guards realized the true nature of what had happened to the two
inmates.
They were gone.
Gone so.
What'd you say there, fuzzy britches?
Literally a Shawshank moment.
The only thing left behind in their cell was a note that read, quote, have a nice day with
a smiley face.
Have a nice day.
You said that.
I did that.
Somebody else did have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
I don't know.
That was somebody else that had written that before.
A killer.
I don't know.
The smiley face killer.
The smiley face, probably.
Shit.
It was quickly realized that the two had not been accounted for since 10.30 the night
before.
10.30 PM.
That's a long time.
During the last count of the night.
Yeah.
So seven fucking hours.
Again, it's like when that shot where they're searching for Andy and they get all the way
to the river or the sewer or whatever line and then he's, and Red starts narrating again.
He's like, in about that time, a man that had never been seen in this area before when
he walks into a bank.
And it's just like, because you know, he's already like, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
It's okay.
It's funny because it's really exciting.
Eerily similar.
Really?
It was immediately reported that a, quote, external breach was found on a street approximately
500 feet outside the prison walls, indicating that the inmates had successfully tunneled
out of the prison and escaped.
Oh shit.
It was literally like Shawshank.
Wow.
Upon further inspection, guards noted that there was no way the two could have created
the tunnel they used to escape from any tools kept inside of the prison.
And instead, they would actually have had to use power tools to do what they did.
What?
As details of this escape got more specific, it seemed as though Richard and David had
used power tools that they had stolen from contractors that were working at the prison
and somehow returned them back to their rightful place before the end of the workday.
This is a good theory, but kind of like how?
Yeah.
They can't get out of their cells on their own.
Well, you said that they were in that really laxed environment though.
Yeah.
So although this seemed like a good theory, it was not all that had happened that allowed
the men to escape.
In reality, the two were being given very special treatment by two of the employees
of the prison for months before the escape.
Okay.
One guard, Gene Palmer, was noted on multiple occasions as giving the men tools and special
clearance to certain parts of the prison.
Gene had been on the force for 27 years before he began giving the inmates certain tools.
He would give them like a screwdriver or like pliers, like not anything you could use to
do this, but still, things that they weren't allowed to have.
Yeah.
What was the cover-up then?
Like saying like, I'm going to whittle some wood or I'm going to...
I'll tell you.
Actually, it wasn't really a cover-up.
It was kind of like an exchange for stuff.
Okay.
So Gene was noted as giving the two men a flathead screwdriver and needle nose pliers
on four occasions between November 2014 and the day of the escape, June 6, 2015.
So between that timeframe, like a couple of fucking months, like eight months, he gave
them tools on four separate occasions.
But that wouldn't...
How could somebody tunnel all the way through there just on four separate occasions?
Just wait.
Sorry, I'm like getting...
It's okay.
I'm just getting like...
His explanation of the tool giving was that he would exchange tools to Richard Matt for
hand-painted canvases of Richards.
Oh.
Richard was really good at painting.
Hmm.
He...
I don't know if he was trying to sell the paintings or he just really liked the paintings
because Richard was known to do paintings of like celebrities and stuff.
He would later state about this, quote, Matt provided me with elaborate paintings and
information on the legal acts that inmates were committing within the facility.
So he used his informant stuff before.
In turn, I provided him with benefits such as paint, paint brushes, movement of inmates,
hamburger meat, altering of electrical boxes in the catwalk areas.
I did not realize at the time that the assistance provided to Matt or Sweatt made their escape
easier," end quote.
He also stated that the electrical work he mentioned was done, quote, to enhance their
ability to cook in their cells.
So he thinks he's doing these men a favor because they're nice and they're exchanging
information.
Right.
Besides the tools...
For the greater good kind of aspect.
It's for everybody's benefit.
Exactly.
Besides like the screwdriver and the pliers, like everything else is pretty innocent, right?
Like giving them food, giving them paint, you know, stuff like that, making it a little
bit easier for them to cook.
So you're probably wondering about the hamburger meat, I mean, I guess, because obviously it's
to cook.
The worst assistant to this crime was one Joyce Mitchell who worked in the prison tailor shop.
So she wasn't a guard, but she was an employee.
Instead of just placing the meat into a quote, green colored woven cloth bag, Joyce also
included multiple hacksaw blades, a screwdriver bit, and various other tools.
Why?
She then put the bag into the freezer and directed Jean Palmer to deliver it to the
men.
I'll get into that in a second.
The reason Jean did not question the secrecy of the delivery was because delivering prisoners'
food in general was considered contraband.
And although he was not cool with bringing in the power tools, he was okay with providing
the food.
So he didn't look through the bag, he didn't question it, he just gave it to them, right?
I wonder if maybe around that time he had been kind of like being weary about giving
them tools?
Yeah.
Maybe that's why they were like, well, he might not argue with food, you know?
Exactly.
So Richard and David were able to use these power tools provided by Joyce and unknowingly
Jean to cut through pipes and make their way through a series of catwalks and walls to
make it through to the outside.
Again, this was months, like eight months, that was happening.
At least.
Here they would emerge from a manhole and escape into the darkness.
It is Shahshank, that's crazy.
Authorities would later discover that the two inmates were supposed to be picked up after
their escape by one Joyce Mitchell.
Ah, you dummy.
But.
Dummy, Joyce.
She would not arrive to their aid that morning.
In fact, at the same time that the men were escaping, Joyce was experiencing severe chest
pains and admitted herself to the hospital.
Guilty conscience, perhaps?
Yeah, I was thinking.
I was like, she gave herself a fucking heart attack with all that worry.
Yep.
Since Joyce was not there to pick up the men like she had promised, they were forced to
get far away on foot.
Unfortunately, they had a little while to do so since they were, they had seven hours,
essentially, from the escape to when they did the count at five.
So who knows how far they could have gotten.
Yeah.
Richard and David were able to be undetected for three days until police received a tip
that the two had been spotted around the town of Willisboro, New York on June 9.
Police spent the days of June 9 and 10, searching around the area, even extending their search
to the border of Vermont in case the two tried to flee the state.
Law enforcement in Canada and Mexico were also given information on the men in case
they tried to leave the country.
Within the next couple of days, the FBI, CBP, which is Customs and Border Protection, RCMP,
which is Royal Canadian Mounted Police, the ATF, which is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco,
Firearms and Explosive, state and local police, the New York State Forest Rangers, and the
U.S. Marshal Service were all involved in this search.
Jesus.
I mean, obviously.
Yeah.
They're two murderers.
I mean.
Yeah.
A $50,000 bounty was set for each inmate originally, but was actually increased to $75,000 each
when the U.S. Marshals took it upon themselves to add $25K to each man.
Where do you go?
Seriously, where do you think you're going to go?
Seriously.
Especially when you don't have a ride in them.
Definitely if they had a car.
Fucking Joyce.
Just ruining everything, Joyce.
But if they had a car, they probably would be a lot further, a lot faster.
But at the same time, where are you going to go?
Like internationally you're going to be looking for.
Where do you think you are?
Yeah, exactly.
Honestly.
So from the day of the escape, June 6th to June 11th, there were two sightings of the
men, but no reported break-ins, robberies, homicides, etc.
No crime around the area.
They're just smart on their part because they're only going to leave a trail, essentially.
If they try to rob anybody of a car or money or whatever.
Yeah, exactly.
On June 11th, law enforcement closed a stretch of New York State Route 374.
School classes were canceled in Danimora and nearby Cyrenac, and officers present in the
area were increased from $300 to more than $500 total, just in that area around the prison.
That's got to be really scary though.
Like, schools were closed?
I have a friend of mine, her mom lives behind, not Bear County jail, but behind a jail.
I always worry about that.
I'm like, you know, many of the property taxes are cheap.
Well yeah, when I used to live in San Marcos, I would travel up to Kyle for work.
It's like 20 minutes, but in between San Marcos and Kyle, there's a jail, like a, actually
a big security unit.
It's right off the highway, there's a bunch of razor wire and stuff, and it says, do not
pick up hitchhikers.
I'm like, ugh.
I know.
So on June 11th, later that afternoon, bloodhounds were able to pick up a scent, and authorities
were able to discover a footprint as well.
From here, the police began searching methodically in a wooded area near where the scent was picked
up.
This was in a nearby town called Cattieville.
Although this was not a lead that produced definite evidence that the two men were there,
it was the only thing they had at the moment.
Nothing really came of this search, although police did put up billboards in the area, hoping
that somebody would spot them in if they hadn't gotten far.
These billboards would quickly stretch to New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Vermont,
Pennsylvania, and all along the US-Canada border.
Wow.
I know.
Seven days after the escape, on June 12th, police would arrest Joyce Mitchell with aiding
to the escapes.
Good.
She cracked.
After like, yeah.
Say crack again.
Crack.
Well, you'd think that, it's not like she was hard to find, right?
She's probably like on a fucking pacemaker now.
Yeah, exactly.
During the weeks since the escape, police were making connections to not only Joyce Mitchell,
but Gene Palmer as well.
It had come out in many different speculations that Joyce was actually sleeping with David
Sweat and Richard Matt, or at least had on one occasion, but this was never confirmed
by Joyce.
Or at least tempted to, or there was clearly like a flirtation there.
What was confirmed, however, was that Joyce provided nude photos of herself to both men.
Stating quote, I was caught up in the fantasy.
I enjoyed the attention, the feeling both of them gave me and the thought of a different
life.
She's fucking married, by the way.
And to them, they're probably like, okay.
This is nasty.
This is so nasty.
But she's going to help us escape.
Exactly.
We can manipulate her.
But once Joyce started confessing to her involvement, things became much more clear.
Sometime around January of 2015, so five months before the escape, Richard and David began
devising their plan and approached Joyce for help.
After smuggling in the tools for the men to use, Joyce was to meet them outside on the
night of the escape with a car filled with guns, ammo, camping gear, and a compass.
Gotta go to the fireworks, Dan.
Yeah.
Go get all the rice off.
The men convinced Joyce that they would include her in their long-term escape plans and even
kill her husband in order to give her a chance to be with them instead.
Yeah.
I'm shook.
Yeah.
I'm shook.
They were going to have this poly three-way relationship of some kind.
I don't know, but yeah.
I mean, I'm sure she wanted that.
I guarantee you they would have just used her until they got what they needed.
I probably would have killed her too, honestly.
She knew everything.
I think so too, honestly.
However, as we know, Joyce did not show up outside the prison for the men the night of
their escape, and instead checked herself into the hospital due to chest pains.
It turns out she just had hella anxiety because everything came to the surface and she couldn't
handle the fucking pressure.
Aw, I remember my first panic attack.
For real.
God, please.
C'mon, I'm on the throne.
Seriously.
I thought I was having a literal heart attack.
After being arrested, Joyce would be charged with quote providing material assistance to
Richard and David.
Jean Palmer had not yet been looked at as a suspect, but of course they were going through like the whole employee roster.
Yeah.
Why does this Jean guy in my head look like Tim from the bar?
He actually might!
He'd be so... I think he looks like Tim from the bar.
That's poor man.
He doesn't.
He kinda does.
He kinda does. He resembles him slightly.
That's who I think of though.
That's what Joyce looks like in female form.
What is Joyce like? I wanna know what Joyce looks like.
It's gonna be rough, isn't it?
She's gonna do that.
It's probably gonna be a little rough.
Is it a little rough?
Oh Jesus.
She looks like a woman that would try to sleep with two prisoners.
I'm sorry.
That's awful.
Ah, she has a snaggle lower tooth.
How does that even happen?
Snaggle lower tooth.
Okay, so.
On June 13th, helicopters, all terrain vehicles, and search dogs were added to the search.
Again, they escaped on the 6th.
I'm just saying.
Well, okay, so at this point, do you think that Joyce knows anything about a potential escape plan or any of that other?
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Or you think she's keeping all that shit to herself?
Well, no, she does. She knows.
Okay.
Because remember, she was supposed to meet them outside with guns and all that shit?
No, of course.
I'm just saying, like, do you think that they also talked thoroughly about them ending up in a specific area?
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Well, yeah, I'll get there in a second.
Okay.
Unfortunately, the weather was particularly bad this day, and it stunted the growth of the search party and actually put it on hold for a few days.
But wouldn't that also stunt them, though, especially if they're out here in the wild?
Sure.
On June 20th, a fortnight after the men escaped.
A fortnight.
Two weeks, to be exact.
The search would continue in Alginie County, Western New York, after police received a tip that the men had been seen in friendship New York.
Friendship.
It's cute.
Friendship.
Two days later, June 22nd, police received a tip that a cabin near the prison had been broken into, and they had a feeling it had something to do with the men, which is hilarious.
It's been 16 days and you're still near the fucking prison.
Yeah.
Like, where are you going to go?
The thing is, like, everybody's looking for you, so the moment you step outside, someone's going to see you.
Exactly.
When police were searching the cabin, they weren't there, they found two pairs of prison-issued underwear, and not that it was necessary, but they were able to test the DNA and they both came back as matches for President David.
Just left behind their fucking underwear.
Okay, so they're not wearing underwear, they're underwear.
He's naked somewhere.
Yeah.
And he's naked somewhere.
He's naked somewhere.
He has a huge dick.
Huge dick.
Just looking for a guy with a huge dick.
Seriously, just swang out of the way.
Yeah.
So then they definitely left some pubes behind.
Oh, for sure.
Found all that.
Okay.
Because of this discovery, investigators concluded that the two had been there within the previous 24 hours.
The pubes were fresh.
I'll tell you why in a second.
Ew.
Meanwhile, prison guards were actually reported to have been beating other inmates in order to try to get information out of them on the whereabouts of the men or what their plan was.
I know.
That's fucked up.
Are you ready?
Why aren't they beating the shit out of Joyce?
Where is he?
Break or snag old dude.
Break or snag.
The police were able to gather quite a bit of information from the cabin search, however.
They were able to deduce that Richard had most likely gotten sick from consuming spoiled food or dirty water because the underwear they found had shat in them.
Had shat in them.
He pooped his pants.
Had shat in them.
I don't know if he pooped his pants, but they were shat in the underwear.
That's where they were getting the DNA from.
He got sick.
That's awful.
What they were essentially saying was clearly these guys aren't really going out of their way to get food or water.
They're essentially making themselves sick based off of what they're trying to survive off of.
Even so, the duo were able to evade police for another few days.
On June 26th, 20 days after the break out.
Sorry, I was just thinking why don't they just follow this scent of shit and follow the shit trail.
That's a whole new definition of the term shit stain.
On June 26th, 20 days after the break out, Richard Matt was spotted in Franklin County, New York after he shot the driver of a passing vehicle with a shotgun.
He was trying to kill the driver and steal the vehicle, but he was unsuccessful and the man would survive and get away.
Oh, good.
So he made it 24 days without harming anyone.
But now they're getting desperate. They're probably really hungry, dehydrated, and running around without underwear.
They're naked somewhere.
Shit on his ass cheeks.
He's just running to the street.
Just hauling ass with shit.
The driver was able to alert police.
He's just down in someone's car, showing the fucking seat.
The perp was here.
He can't sit anywhere else. He's going to get found out.
The feet.
Sorry. Oh, that's really funny. I knew you'd like that.
So the driver was able to alert police and US Border Patrol officers were sent to investigate.
After searching for a while, they heard something familiar.
The sound of a pussy ass bitch coughing around the corner.
Oh, there he is. It's the where to gone.
What? They heard him cough.
He was trying to hide from them when he coughed.
That sounds like a joke. One of those, like the potato sack joke.
It's like meow. Oh, it's just a cat.
Woof woof. Oh, it's just a dog.
When they were hiding in the potato sack.
Potatoes.
Yeah, I remember that.
Idiot.
Like he literally like, he like couldn't hold in a cough and that's how they found him.
I never say you couldn't hold in a fart or something.
That'd be even funnier.
Oh, there he is. I can smell him from here.
They came across Richard Matt carrying the shotgun still.
Police urged him to drop the weapon, but when he refused and held it up, Richard Matt was shot by a supervisory agent and former Army Ranger, Chris Voss.
Richard would be shot three times in the head and would not survive his wounds.
Wow. So you died right there.
You died.
Richard's body would not be claimed for over a week after his capture and the prison would release a statement that they would be putting Richard through a popper's funeral if his body was not claimed by 5pm that day.
I didn't know what that was.
So essentially it would be like a John Doe type situation.
It's what prisoners or the prison would do if an inmate died and they don't claim their body.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Nicholas Harris, Richard's son, would be the one to step up and claim his father's body.
Wow.
Nicholas was 23 at this time and it was not the least bit surprised that his father was able to escape once again.
Nicholas was noted as saying that it was, quote, shocking that nobody would really expect that.
Like he fucking escaped before.
He tried to escape in Mexico.
You had to put snipers outside of the fucking courtroom when you arrested him.
Like you really didn't think he was going to try to escape and you give him all this freedom in prison, not that it's their fault but still.
Yeah, sounds like Nicholas just, he's like, you guys are fucking idiots.
I know I'm not a mean guy.
Give me this guy.
I've never fucking met the guy.
Yeah, I'm never even.
Exactly.
Nicholas would also refer to his father as a quote, genius, but told sources, quote, I don't know him to say I respected him or not.
Because I guess they asked him and he respected him.
I don't know him.
How could I?
Nicholas's location was unknown at the time of Richard's death as the two had split up.
After Richard took off, David hid in a deer blind used by hunters and even saw an officer walk right past him as he hid.
Two days later on June 28, New York State Trooper Sergeant Jay Cook drove past David as he was walking down the road.
Just no hands on me.
Probably naked.
She's free ballin' it at least.
I know where.
Jay immediately circled back to have a chat with him, unsure right away if it was actually David or not.
Yeah.
I'm sure he was.
But again, remember they had street clothes.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, they could have just been in his street clothes.
Hey, by the way, just you're walking out here by yourself.
We're on the lookout for somebody.
Yeah.
That actually looks a lot like you.
If you see your doppelganger, just call.
Can I see your, can you take your pants off?
I can see it on your face.
Were you shitting yourself right now?
That was Richard.
Oh, my bad.
Once the officer turned around, David began running across a hayfield and Jay would begin chasing him.
Oh, shit.
The officer shot twice at David, hitting him in his right shoulder and left arm from 73 yards away.
Dang.
Good shot.
This incident occurred about 16 miles from where Richard was found and just a mile and a half from the Canadian border.
Oh, so he was like almost there.
Clearly.
Or seemingly, I guess.
David would be taken to Albany Medical Center where he was in critical condition, but he would ultimately survive.
Critical condition for being shot?
Well, I guess arteries.
You have arteries all throughout there.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
I'm sure they didn't like race him to the hospital either.
You're fine.
Get up.
Come on.
You can walk.
On July 5th, 2015, David was moved to a special housing unit in the maximum security five points correctional facility.
David would plead guilty to two felony accounts of first-degree escape, which I didn't know that was a thing,
and an additional count of promoting prison contraband.
He was sentenced to three and a half to seven years to be served consecutively with his life sentence.
Wow.
He would later admit that the two split up because Richard became, quote, unfocused and was, quote, slowing him down.
He was just slowing me down.
He's probably going to fucking freeze his idea.
Hallucinating because he's probably hungry as shit.
How are you starving?
Joyce Mitchell pleaded guilty to promoting prison contraband and criminal facilitation.
She was sentenced to two and one-third to seven years in prison.
Two and one-third of a year.
Two and a third of a year.
To seven years.
It was like a thing.
Yeah.
She was granted parole and released from prison in February of 2020.
Wow.
Gene Palmer pleaded guilty to promoting prison contraband, which is a felony, and was sentenced to six months in jail.
He would serve four months and be released on good behavior.
There are tons of stories on this, and the most popular one is probably Showtime's Escape at Danimora.
That's like the biggest one.
She should have been charged for the crimes that they committed after they escaped.
She also should have been charged for, like, indecent exposure with an inmate.
Because even though that wasn't...
Because they can't consent.
Yeah, they can't consent.
And even though they might not have had sex, she still gave them nude photos of herself.
She probably got a hell of a plea deal, though, because she probably gave them all the info she knew about them.
Yeah.
I don't think they'd have assisted in their capture.
But even them shooting that guy with the shotgun, she should be liable for that.
She should, for sure.
Take her ass to civil court.
Sort of a fucking hacksaw, like, come on.
But yeah, it was like a Shawshank fucking moment, and I just want to pepper this in here at the end.
No diagnosis was ever done for Richard Matt.
I don't know if he was ever evaluated.
I saw one source that said that David Sweat was either diagnosed or suspected of antisocial personally disorder.
But yeah.
What the hell is the case?
Well, I'm glad that Andy Dufresne got away, but I'm certainly glad these guys didn't.
Yeah, it's fucking nuts.
And I was like, dude, I heard briefly on another podcast, they mentioned the documentary, and I was like, I have to do that case.
That sounds so interesting.
I was like, how cool would it be to see both of their childhoods when they met up?
And Richard was, I don't want to say, significantly older than David.
He's 15 years older than him.
Yeah, it's not too bad.
Yeah, but still, clearly, I mean, charming manipulative, not only with women, but I'm sure it led into this situation relationship with David in prison because he was older, more experienced as a criminal.
And David probably thought that Richard was so cool, and he was cooler by proxy because he knew this career criminal.
And he's escaped before, so why wouldn't I trust him to know that it was escape?
And shit, he fucking did.
I mean, they did it.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's making me curious.
I know.
What a daisy.
So it wasn't until, and I was going to ask earlier, did they find them in a cabin?
Because I remember that when you were saying 2015, I was like, there's no way I haven't heard of this.
Yeah.
And I did remember after you were talking about it, but I wouldn't have remembered names or known anything about the past, you know, their past at all.
Yeah, it's really unfortunate because both of them really just got kind of put through the ringer immediately when they were born.
Yeah.
They didn't really have a fucking chance.
Like neither one of them with Richard being left in the car.
And then, you know, thankfully, Nicholas didn't get subjected to all that because Richard was in jail when he was born.
Good for you, Nicholas, for breaking the cycle of abuse.
Yeah, absolutely.
I completely agree.
And then of course with David, like, you know, his mom, like admitted to not having given him the best childhood, but then like just shipped him off to foster care to be with his aunt and uncle when he, when he wasn't, you know, responding the way she wanted to.
It's like, what the fuck do you expect?
Like, you're partying all the time.
Like, I'm sure the household wasn't calm, you know, ever.
Yeah.
Yeah, perhaps there was, you know, verbal abuse, psychological abuse, whatever.
And then you expect him to just be like an angel child, you know, not everybody, especially if he has antisocial personality disorder that can be caused by trauma and not cause but brought to the forefront.
Right.
You know, genetically predisposed.
Yeah, it seemed like neither of them were close to their fathers, really.
And, you know, the exposure that I think Richard had, he was like an asshole.
He was a criminal too.
And a criminal.
And then both, again, foster care and all that other stuff.
And then, you know, it's just, yeah.
Yeah, but that was a formidable years right there and hadn't hadn't been taken care of.
Yeah, there was a bunch, a bunch of additional information that I felt just it wouldn't have made the story anymore clear.
It was a lot of other information I found though.
So definitely recommend if you want to hear like more of like all the details, watch the documentary, the escape at Dan and more, I think it's showtime.
But there's a bunch of other ones.
And what was it?
No, Shawshank, it's like kind of, it's not based on obviously it's happened before, but people compare it a lot to Shawshank.
And if you haven't seen that movie, it's really good.
It's really good.
And the best part is when the guard says, if I hear so much as a mouse fart in here, I'm coming in here and cracking skulls or whatever the fuck he says.
Like it's so good.
Yeah.
And there is like, I think there was like a date line or some kind of episode like that, like something on oxygen about it.
Sure.
And then there's like a couple of different like just single episodes out.
You can find that on online.
I'm sure there was quite a bit of coverage just because I mean it was 2015.
It's not like it's, you know, 1930s.
And I left this out as well like in my notes, but I did just want to also mention like David's mom when she found out that he escaped.
Like she said that he had stopped writing letters to her like two months before they escaped.
Like they had like frequently written letters and he stopped.
And then she was saying like when he escaped, we were like so fearful that he was going to get killed or he was going to hurt somebody else.
And she's like, I'm really thankful that he's alive, but I'm not interested in talking to him.
Well, it sounds like if he stopped corresponding with her, it sounds like he did it kind of out of protect her not to give him a great quality, you know, but to kind of because they would probably think the first place I'm going to go is to my mom's because I'm really close to my mom.
Yeah, no, for sure. And it probably came from a good place if you want to give him that, but I don't know.
So yeah, there's not really much known about like David today, but of course he's in like a maximum security like cannot get out like probably like one hour a day outside on a cage.
And he is like 43, I think.
Yeah.
So yeah.
Well, that's well within my age range. I guess I'm going to write him on a little letter.
Oh my gosh, don't be one of those girls.
Can you tell me how you were scammed?
What was there? We talked about that hint hint something similar to that.
Yeah.
On the bonus episode of Lady that I did hasn't come out yet, but that'd be an interesting mental breakdown.
Yeah, for sure.
Well, thank you guys for joining us.
You're welcome.
I like that one.
Again.
Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that anymore. I just feel so bad for Nicholas, but he by all accounts has just seemed so graceful about like the whole thing like super like I'm not associated with my father, but you guys are done.
For not realizing who he is.
Like, I love that like thought process is like I don't even fucking know him and I know him more than you.
Yeah, because you guys don't fucking pay attention.
Right. Yeah.
Do better.
And I know that they did at that prison.
They like cemented down that sewer like the manhole and then they like they like took additional measures to make it more secure.
Yeah.
You know, from now on.
And of course, those people don't work anymore.
So crazy.
Okay.
Well, we will be back soon with another minty break.
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Get some merch.
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Check us out on social media.
Everywhere is at diagnosing a killer other than Twitter, which is that killer diagnosis.
I'm getting better at that.
Yeah.
Right.
It's a review.
Leave us a review.
I looked on Spotify last night, the analytics and we have like 300 followers on Spotify.
Really?
Yeah.
It says we have 80 on Apple, but we have like 300 on Spotify.
So thank you.
And I also noticed the only state in America that we haven't had a download in is South Dakota.
Anyone knows anyone from South Dakota refer our podcast?
That is so funny.
What were we, I think it was, I want to say it was Jordan and Saxon that they said like
one of the places that they haven't met anybody from in their lives is South Dakota.
Do you think South Dakota exists?
No, it's probably like a Montana.
It's like a Montana thing.
It doesn't exist.
Yeah.
Or birds.
Well, birds aren't real.
Same thing with like bears.
Like apparently the only bear that exists is like cocaine bear.
Because Alex has a shirt that Dana got it for Alex and said it flies its spies.
They always joke about like birds aren't real.
They fly its spies.
And then a news report the other day about how they were taking like dead birds and then
they were like reanimating them with computers inside their heads.
Hell no.
I know.
Actually make that happen.
It's happening.
Yeah, but South Dakota, if anyone knows anybody in South Dakota, hit us up, hit us up and
also we got a download in Iceland.
I know.
It's B-Work.
I don't know.
Is it?
I don't know.
I hope so.
Yeah, Iceland and Bermuda.
We got a download in Bermuda or maybe a couple.
Wow.
But we're like super pop it in the UK.
Like we love you guys.
Oh, I love that.
Please, please message us if you're from another country.
I say that like every episode.
He really wants to just communicate with somebody from another country.
I think it's interesting like the cultural differences.
I've always been super interested in the idea of like a pen pal from another country.
Like I really have.
And that's why I'm like so excited because this is a real way to connect with people.
Yeah.
Across the fucking world.
I was talking to a friend of mine who lives in Manchester and we were just doing like
little voice messages back and forth and he said he was he was like, oh, I just got off
of work.
I'm waiting for the lift.
Like I'm waiting for my lifts and I was like, I was like, they have lift and then I was
like, oh, an elevator.
Oh, I was thinking.
Well, because I was like, well, it's I hear dinging in the background and I was like, it
doesn't sound like he's outside.
It's like, why don't you just see an Uber?
It's better.
Yeah.
And I was like, oh, that's why I didn't realize they had Uber as their looser.
Oh, you mean a fucking elevator.
That's horrible.
Well, I might sound silly, but wasn't Uber like an is it an American company?
I thought it was invented in Germany.
It's only in America.
Yeah.
It's a German word.
Yeah.
I really don't have the umlaut on top of it though.
I don't think.
Oh, I don't know.
I thought it was available worldwide.
No, I might be wrong.
Well, because it puts other rideshare companies out of business.
Like there's some, I mean, it's like those scooter, stupid scooter things.
Bird scooters, the Lyme scooters.
God, I fucking hated those.
What a terrible fucking idea.
I almost got hit by a car on one of those at Oklahoma.
Yeah, because nobody's fucking looking out for them.
They're not, they're not really like even street legal.
They're not.
And you supposed to ride them on the sidewalk where people walk.
They go up to like, I think they go up to like seven or eight miles an hour.
Yeah.
Fucking fast.
Drunk people take them home.
They constantly crash into the cars.
We can get a ticket on one of those we're riding in.
It's just ridiculous.
And then it's just like, they're wasteful because apparently they make them really, really cheap.
So like unless people are like picking them up to like do the battery charging station
or whatever, like they'll just, I mean, it's just wasteful.
It's just literally just trash on the ground.
You created trash.
Thanks.
You created trash.
And you're trash and you should feel trashy for making trash.
Oh man.
But yeah, like in places like, like even in New York and stuff, they wanted to ban Ubers
and Lyfts because it was putting the city's taxi business out of business.
Oh yeah.
Taxis in New York.
Yeah, we really don't.
It takes like 40 minutes.
I have only ever ridden in a taxi twice, once in Hawaii and once in Austin.
Yeah.
I've only ever ridden in a taxi once.
Oh, in New York.
We did New York.
Me and Kelly were catching a taxi to go to a party at like 15, 16 years old.
That was when taxis like were.
Oh, it cost us like 30 fucking bucks.
It was down the street.
I don't think it was 30 bucks, but.
I remember one time I was with my friends and we tried to prank.
We were just doing like prank calls or whatever, like before, like when cell phones like first
became a thing at my dial 2222222 was like, no, it's gonna have this number.
Yellow Cabinals are all like, oh, fuck.
We used to call information.
We'd be like, yeah, could you get me the number to Travis Barker and Riverside, California?
Oh, that's so funny.
They were like, sure thing.
One second.
That's awesome.
Well, yeah, thank you guys for joining us.
If any other podcasts are listening and you guys want to potentially hit us up, we can
check out your podcast.
We'd like to connect with others, you know, how it goes.
I'm really excited to get to know some people at the True Crime Paranormal Podcast Festival
in Austin and August.
Again, I need to take a step for that at diagnosingkiller.com and there should be a link on there.
Again, click all the links, guys.
Click all the links.
Yeah.
And also, I just wanted to plug this really quick.
I know we have like a specific ad for it, but we are now sponsored by BetterHelp as well.
If you guys are interested in starting any kind of therapy or looking for someone new
or something 100% virtual, we are sponsored by BetterHelp.
You can go to betterhelp.com.
That's BetterHelp H-E-L-P just to be clear.
And yeah, they are sponsoring us now and we obviously care a lot about you guys and your
mental health, so we definitely want to make that available to you guys as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Maybe we should put that on the website too.
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Since it's a like a web link instead of like just a code.
It'll be on the resource tab.
Cool.
We'll put it on there.
Okay, well we will see you guys next time.
Alright, love you.
Bye.
Alright, love you.
Bye.
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