1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Hello! Welcome to another episode of Dying, Nosing, and Killing, the mental breakdown. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,000 I'm trying to say it with you. 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,000 I'm Koelle. I'm Kenna. 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Welcome back. Thanks. Excited to talk to you guys again. 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Yeah. It's been busy. Very busy. Very busy. Yeah, I'm taking a flax course. It's not fun. 6 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,000 It is 100% of my time right now. What is it on? 7 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,000 Speech and our communications. Oh no. 8 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Yeah, it's 100% of my time. I hated that shit. 9 00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:00,000 I'm also taking one of the only psych courses they have left that I haven't taken, which is Child Development. 10 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Oh, I took that course. I really liked it. 11 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:08,000 It kind of plays into what I'm doing now. I don't know if you all heard of the DAK Lab, but I got a new job and I'm really excited about it. 12 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:15,000 I got my RBT certification in the works, and if you don't know what that is, Google it because I'm not going to talk about myself the whole time. 13 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:20,000 But you should just take a page from my book and the speech when you have to do it online just use the mannequin heads. 14 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,000 Oh yeah. This is all in our communications, so it has nothing to do with public speaking. 15 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,000 Oh, okay. It's not that. 16 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,000 It's all about communicating with one-on-one with people. 17 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,000 Oh, that's cool. 18 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000 I actually got a message from my professor today asking if she could use one of my assignments for future classes. 19 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Wow. 20 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:53,000 I was telling Trish all about it because it was like talking about confirming communication versus disconfirming communication and how there's these three pillars about recognition, acknowledgement, and then endorsement. 21 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:59,000 And so essentially the recognition would be when someone enters the room, there's verbal and nonverbal cues. 22 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:04,000 You can give someone high or you can just smile and do the sup nod. 23 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,000 Yeah, sup. 24 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:12,000 But that's recognition and then acknowledgement would be like, oh, I understand what you're saying, or even nodding during a conversation while you're listening. 25 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:20,000 And then endorsement is giving feedback that's in a positive or negative way. 26 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000 So again, those are the confirming and then disconfirming. 27 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:31,000 So I use Trish as a great example of how she's this really great friend and how every time we see each other, we always yell, friendship! 28 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,000 And then we hug. 29 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:40,000 And so last night when I saw Trish, I got out of the car and she was standing next to me and I started walking past her and she's like, bitch, give me my hug! 30 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Because she knows every time we hug and I started laughing because it was like, oh my gosh, I just wrote about you and how those are confirming recognition, confirming, acknowledgement, confirming endorsements. 31 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,000 And then there's disconfirming ones where it's like, you just walk into an establishment and somebody doesn't say anything to you. 32 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:06,000 Or I used to have a friend that she would invite me over and I would just, she'd be like, doors open, you know? 33 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Like how disconfirming that is as far as acknowledgement? 34 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,000 You say doors open. 35 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,000 I say doors open to Casey. 36 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,000 That's different. 37 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,000 But I'm really good at ignoring someone when they walk in the bar, especially if it's someone I don't want to fucking say hi to. 38 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,000 I'm like, oh, you don't exist to me. 39 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Sorry. 40 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:27,000 Anyway, back to my laughing spree of making it look like I'm having a great time. 41 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,000 No, I'm not petty like that, but I can be. 42 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Sure. 43 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:32,000 I want to be. 44 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,000 But that's great. 45 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:42,000 That's a really great compliment that she wants to use your, I'm sorry, she didn't mean to assume the professor is female, but wants to use your page as, or your paper as an example. 46 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,000 It made me feel good. 47 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,000 Yeah, absolutely. 48 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:46,000 She's like, I'm going to change the names and I was like, it's okay. 49 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,000 I changed my disconfirming person's name anyways. 50 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Oh well. 51 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,000 Like it's all anonymous. 52 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,000 Change it twice, then no one will ever fucking vote. 53 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,000 Yeah, exactly. 54 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Well, that's awesome. 55 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:01,000 I know that's a really great way for you and I know flex courses are not easy, so it makes sense why we're kind of busy, you know, right now. 56 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:02,000 For sure. 57 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:08,000 I know I'm not in school right now, but I have a lot of things kind of get myself set up to get into the new job and everything. 58 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,000 So that's been taking up a lot of my time as well. 59 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,000 Two more weeks and then somewhere will be here and it'll be so much easier. 60 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,000 Yeah, exactly. 61 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,000 Well, thank you guys for joining us today for another mental breakdown. 62 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,000 We've been getting so much positive feedback. 63 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:31,000 I was telling Koel we actually doubled our amount of downloads in the last four months, which is so cool because we have twice as many as we did in December and we've had been around for like a year and a half before that. 64 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,000 And we only had like, I think 8,000 and now we're up to 16,000. 65 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,000 So you guys are doing your jobs out there because you guys are clearly spreading the word. 66 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Yeah, seriously. 67 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,000 And I was just looking at our analytics today on RSS. 68 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,000 We can see like the whole world map and like where the hotspots are and we are like popping up in the East Coast. 69 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,000 Like we are like all around like the East Central and then like LA really loves us. 70 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,000 Everything. 71 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,000 So thank you guys. 72 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,000 And of course, are not in America listeners. 73 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,000 We have a lot of people that listen to us in the UK. 74 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 It's like everywhere around the UK. 75 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,000 Nice. 76 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,000 Thank you guys for listening to us. 77 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,000 We love you and we appreciate it. 78 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Yeah. 79 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaking of listeners, I do just want to shout out a couple people. 80 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,000 We have a really loyal listener follower. 81 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Her name is Maggie and she always messages us and says like, she's the one that gave us the idea for like yikes on bikes for the merch. 82 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Yeah. 83 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,000 So she met, she met, sorry. 84 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:28,000 So she messaged us yesterday on the Instagram and just said, I wanted to reach out and tell you that the merch looks great. 85 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,000 It's incredible. 86 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,000 You know, I love the yikes on bikes. 87 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,000 Like I'm definitely going to get it soon. 88 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,000 The yikes on bikes on the canvas bag looks so cute. 89 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Looks so good. 90 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,000 I love that one. 91 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,000 And she was also commenting on the fact that there's so many different color options. 92 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,000 I love the fact that you can choose like the style and the color. 93 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,000 It's not just like you're married to one as soon as you see it. 94 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,000 Right. 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000 So definitely go look through that. 96 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:54,000 I know it kind of might look on our merch website that there's only one color, but you can choose between, I think there's like 15 or 18 different colors. 97 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,000 Different colors. 98 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,000 And then they come in different fabrics too. 99 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,000 Yeah. 100 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,000 I think there's even like a, like a heathered blue or a heathered gray. 101 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,000 Yeah. 102 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,000 Definitely. 103 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,000 The shirts, yeah, there's like a hoodie. 104 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,000 There's a long sleeve, short sleeve, quarter sleeve. 105 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,000 Like there's a bunch of different options. 106 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,000 She definitely suggested something else, merch wise. 107 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,000 I'm not going to say it here, but I'll just tease it. 108 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,000 So we have some new merch designs in the works as well. 109 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,000 She said, I got to know what episode the, is he the lady? 110 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,000 Is he the lady? 111 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,000 Yeah. 112 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,000 I don't know what episode that's from because I can't find it. 113 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,000 So if anyone is seeing, is he the lady? 114 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,000 It's from our Robert Durst episode. 115 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,000 Go listen because it took me way too long to realize he was impersonating a female. 116 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,000 Absolutely. 117 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,000 And then it has nothing to do with gender specifications whatsoever. 118 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,000 I hope nobody thinks that it's, it's a, it's a wild story. 119 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Yeah. 120 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,000 And it was just a funny quote. 121 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,000 Yeah. 122 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,000 And it kind of came to the realization that there was some tomfoolery happening. 123 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,000 Yeah. 124 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:49,000 Similarly to me not knowing that John Lennon was dead and four quarters of the way of the 125 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,000 four quarters, three quarters of the way of the episode. 126 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,000 So yeah. 127 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:57,000 Anyway, so thanks Maggie for consistently just being so nice and so communicative. 128 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,000 We really appreciate that. 129 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,000 And before we do get started, I have one more message that we got from someone on Instagram. 130 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,000 They don't have a name on here. 131 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,000 It's like a tag name. 132 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 So I'm not sure what their name is, but they messaged and said, I don't know if y'all 133 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,000 check your Instagram messages, but which tells me that they're in the beginning of our episodes 134 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,000 because we hadn't been talking about that yet. 135 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,000 They said, okay, I don't normally let random accounts follow me on this profile, but I 136 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,000 looked through y'all's page and I was like, okay, true crime. 137 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:23,000 I'm game. 138 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Let's see what this is all about. 139 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000 I found y'all on Spotify and I was like, what the hell? 140 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Why not? 141 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,000 And I've been listening at work for the last couple hours and I got to say, with a bunch 142 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,000 of wise, definitely a new favorite podcast of mine. 143 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,000 Yay. 144 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,000 I've already recommended you to a couple of friends. 145 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,000 You're both hilarious and detailed in all the right ways. 146 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,000 So thank you for the follow. 147 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,720 Y'all just gained a loyal listener. 148 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,000 I'm excited to keep listening to help pass the time at work. 149 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,000 Aw, thanks, listener. 150 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Which is awesome. 151 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Yeah, absolutely. 152 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,000 Thank you for that lovely message. 153 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,000 We love talking to you guys and getting feedback, whether it's positive or negative. 154 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,200 We don't necessarily talk about the negative, but when it does come up and it's something 155 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,200 that we recognize that we can correct, we will talk about that correction in a positive 156 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,000 way without shouting out the person that said it. 157 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,000 Of course. 158 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Of course. 159 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Because we, again, we always want to make sure that we have correct information out there. 160 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,000 So some of that is duty else help as well. 161 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,000 So we really appreciate that. 162 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,000 Plus it means that you're paying attention and I enjoy that. 163 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Absolutely. 164 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,000 Sometimes I'll zone out. 165 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,000 I mean, earlier today I was listening to a podcast and I had to rewind the last minute 166 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,000 or two, like three times because I kept thinking of something else in my head and realized I'd 167 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,000 missed the whole information they were saying for like almost two minutes. 168 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,000 I was like, oh my God, like pay attention. 169 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,000 My ADHD brain, but anyway, just wanted to shout those out. 170 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,000 If you don't already have us on social media, you can follow us anywhere at Diagnosing a 171 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,000 Killer. 172 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,000 Check out DiagnosingAKiller.com and then we have our link tree in our Instagram bio where 173 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:46,000 you can find all of our good stuff as well as tickets to the True Crime and Paranormal 174 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Podcast Festival that is happening in four months, by the way. 175 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,000 Oh my God. 176 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,000 So excited. 177 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,000 I know I'm so excited though. 178 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,000 We're going to get that. 179 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,000 That's in Austin, Texas in August. 180 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:00,000 So go check that out and then you get 15% off on those tickets with our link, D-A-K-P-O-D 181 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,000 and now I'm going to let you talk. 182 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,000 Go ahead. 183 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,000 So, you know, at the beginning of the episode, we were kind of talking about confirming or 184 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:12,000 disconfirming things like that, especially around like acknowledgement. 185 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:18,000 I thought that, because one of the things that I said in my disconfirming relationship 186 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:23,000 was that hardly ever would it get past that acknowledgement stage. 187 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:28,640 So endorsement was never really like a topic of conversation with this individual. 188 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:36,640 And so I think mostly what I wanted to focus on was avoidance behaviors. 189 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:37,640 Okay. 190 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,640 I kind of had an inkling that it might have had to do with your paper and your course 191 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:41,640 when you started talking about it earlier. 192 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,640 I was like, is this going to be our mental breakdown topic? 193 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,640 We're going to talk about five different types of avoidance behaviors. 194 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:49,640 Wow. 195 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:50,640 I didn't realize there was that many. 196 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:51,640 I guess it makes sense though. 197 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:52,640 Right. 198 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,320 So the first one we're going to talk about, we're just going to hop right in, is going 199 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,840 to be situational avoidance. 200 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,480 Stimul avoidance manifests as staying away from people, places or things most often due 201 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,760 to past traumatic experiences. 202 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:05,760 That makes sense. 203 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:11,000 So some people may avoid crowded elevators or large crowds, firework displays for veterans 204 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,040 sometimes, right? 205 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,480 Or avoiding barren streets, especially at night if one was maybe assaulted in a similar 206 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:18,480 situation. 207 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,480 Makes sense. 208 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,720 But it doesn't necessarily have to be combined with PTSD. 209 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,400 Avoiding forested areas because of fear of spiders or deep water because of fear of 210 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:31,120 sharks is even considered a situational avoidance. 211 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,560 I have definitely found myself acting out situational avoidance. 212 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:40,200 Like I don't go to certain places even today because of past trauma. 213 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,280 Another small example of this, again, not linked to PTSD, might be not going to the 214 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,880 same places but you and your ex used to frequent out of fear of running into them. 215 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,480 That is technically situational avoidance. 216 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,480 Well, I don't, okay, I also do that. 217 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,280 I don't go to certain places that I know that people that are no longer in my life might 218 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,640 be because I don't, it's not that I'm afraid of running into them. 219 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:01,880 I just don't want to fucking deal with it. 220 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:02,880 You know what I mean? 221 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,600 I'm like, I don't want to have to be a dick. 222 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:05,760 So I'm just not going to go. 223 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:06,760 I'm just not going to go. 224 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,320 That would be situational avoidance. 225 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:09,320 Wow. 226 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:10,320 I do that. 227 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,040 So just to be clear, we're not talking about a specific disorder. 228 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,560 This is not in the DSM-5. 229 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:21,320 This is just specific behaviors related to like, you know, one of the best things you 230 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:27,080 can do if you're struggling with situational avoidance is to practice self-care regularly. 231 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,520 Start exchanging your negative thoughts to positive ones by encouraging yourself from 232 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:31,520 within. 233 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,480 And in some cases, come to accept that it's okay to be affected by these certain situations. 234 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:37,920 Either way, your fears are valid. 235 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:38,920 Yeah, absolutely. 236 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,320 And I just also wanted to pepper it in. 237 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:44,120 It actually might come up in a different category, but it makes me think of like, like when I 238 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,600 go to a place that has a large crowd, I don't necessarily care for large crowds, but I'm 239 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:55,640 not going to avoid them because the excitement of the event outweighs the fear of the crowd. 240 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:01,720 But I find myself like constantly thinking the worst, like mass shooting or mass bombing 241 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:02,720 or things. 242 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,800 And I have to continuously remind myself, okay, listen, bitch, if this is going to happen, 243 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:08,240 you have no way of controlling it. 244 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,680 Like, hopefully it doesn't, but you can't fucking control it if it does. 245 00:12:11,680 --> 00:12:13,840 So just try to enjoy yourself and then guess what? 246 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:14,840 It never happens. 247 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:15,840 Not going to win. 248 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,840 So what's funny, you bring that up because the next one is cognitive avoidance. 249 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,960 Oh, there you go. 250 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,520 Cognitive avoidance would be reminding one to stay away from intrusive thoughts. 251 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,360 Oh my God, that's so funny. 252 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,560 So our minds tend to sometimes go to places and attempt to keep us like these specific 253 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:32,040 thoughts at bay. 254 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:37,640 We may repeat prayer or mantras telling ourselves to ignore certain thoughts like these. 255 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,360 Sounds like maybe like, don't think like that, don't think like that, don't think like that. 256 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,240 That's me as fuck. 257 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,080 These thoughts are absolutely natural occurrences and it does prepare our brains for what ifs 258 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,280 and allows us to interpret perceived potential threats. 259 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,520 Although this is a common occurrence for most people, it can eventually become unhealthy 260 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:01,680 because doing these thoughts can actually become ritualistic. 261 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:03,400 Or obsessive, yeah. 262 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,200 If you're experiencing chronic worry or obsessive thoughts regularly, it might be time to reach 263 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,480 out to someone like a GP or a PCP. 264 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,080 That's also me. 265 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,520 But I know why mine happens. 266 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,680 Well, you've also been diagnosed. 267 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:21,240 That's why I'm like, okay, I can just like consult with my doctor but they're gonna tell 268 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:22,240 me the same thing. 269 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,240 I already know. 270 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,240 You have a CPT. 271 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:25,240 That's fine. 272 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:26,240 I have a great life. 273 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,240 It's fine. 274 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:28,240 I do. 275 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,920 I mean, like you said, you still like go enjoy things. 276 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:34,920 I do. 277 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:35,920 Yeah, I do. 278 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,520 But it's sometimes, I'll be real, it does get hard sometimes to enjoy myself when I'm 279 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,920 so constantly worried about what if. 280 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:43,920 Of course, yeah. 281 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,840 I think I get like, I think I feel that more often with people. 282 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,520 Like I think like, oh, what are they doing? 283 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:53,160 Or like, or like, are they thinking bad about me? 284 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:54,160 Like, what did I do? 285 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:55,160 Like, what did I say? 286 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,120 And I'll get stuck in a loop. 287 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,920 But it doesn't happen so often. 288 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,720 Like if I'm in the moment and I'm able to talk to someone, like, I don't worry about 289 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,720 that. 290 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,360 I don't worry about the way that they're looking at me or like the way that my behavior is, 291 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,360 my body language. 292 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,560 I don't really worry about that so much, but it's when I'm left alone to those thoughts, 293 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:12,560 which is probably most people. 294 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:17,360 Yeah, my biggest thing, like where it comes from is not where it comes from, but like 295 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:22,160 the most common one is something unexpected happening or something spontaneous happening, 296 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,400 like someone snapping all of the sudden. 297 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,400 Yeah. 298 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,320 Like I have an irrational fear of someone in the car next to me in the light shooting 299 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:30,320 me. 300 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,320 Me too. 301 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:32,320 Irrational fear. 302 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:33,320 I had that like three times last night. 303 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,040 I was like, why is this guy matching my speed? 304 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:36,600 And this therapist, my therapist. 305 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:42,600 My therapist told me that's not an irrational fear because rationally that could happen. 306 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:43,960 It just probably won't happen. 307 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,800 You know, I think it every time, like I will not sit right next to someone. 308 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,600 60% of the time someone's going to shoot me. 309 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,600 Yeah, I mean, yeah, seriously. 310 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,640 Yeah, right. 311 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,040 I will literally not sit next to someone out of light because I'm afraid if they can 312 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,040 see me, they can shoot me. 313 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,920 I will position specifically like the middle of my doors right where their head is. 314 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,520 So if they try to shoot me, they couldn't because they can't see me. 315 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:04,520 Like it's bad. 316 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:10,160 So like if I see somebody sitting like right at the line, my, yeah, my passengers side 317 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,440 mirror or window is going to be towards their like back window. 318 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:14,440 Oh, no. 319 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,960 So I don't make eye contact. 320 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:18,960 But are also like another big thing. 321 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,040 And I think this is probably what it comes from because I bartended for like almost 10 322 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:27,400 years and a lot like nine out of 10 times when you cut someone off, they freak out. 323 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:28,400 Right. 324 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,160 And I think that's what it comes from because there was so much, I don't want to say violence, 325 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,520 there's so much explosiveness when a drunk person was cut off. 326 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,600 Even if I wasn't the one cutting them off, it scared me that like someone was going to 327 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,080 leave the bar and come back with a gun and try to get revenge on the person that cut them 328 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,080 off or whatever. 329 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,400 And I've seen like, I mean, I've had glass glasses full of beer thrown at me, like thrown 330 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:49,400 at my managers. 331 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,400 Like really? 332 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:51,400 Yeah. 333 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:52,400 Like it's people are assholes. 334 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,400 They get cut off. 335 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,400 Like they don't want to get cut off. 336 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,400 They want to keep drinking. 337 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,800 And I don't know if that's necessarily where it comes from, but that's what I think of. 338 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:05,360 Like someone can snap so quickly and it probably also comes into me researching true crime cases 339 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,280 where people do snap very quickly. 340 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,560 But one, one for me that's like, I think it's just the unpredictability is I'm terrified 341 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,600 of lightning like thunder all day. 342 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:14,960 I don't like lightning. 343 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,240 And the other day when we were having that storm, I was sitting at the computer and the 344 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,880 lights started flickering and the lightning was really close. 345 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,520 I had to take my headset off, stop doing homework and research. 346 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,280 And I just started pacing in the middle of the house because I was like, okay, well, 347 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,280 the chances are that if it's going to hit a window, it's going to be one of these windows. 348 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,800 And as long as I'm like bouncing to and from, you know, like I'm not going to be standing 349 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:39,800 next to the window. 350 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,800 And it was so obsessive. 351 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,800 No, yeah. 352 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,720 It, it, it made me sick to my stomach. 353 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,160 I feel that way only when I'm in the trailer. 354 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,160 Yeah. 355 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,440 Our parents have an RV full time down at the coast and we stayed me and Casey and then 356 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:53,960 two of our friends stayed for like a week, like a couple of weeks ago. 357 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,840 And there was this really big storm that came through and I was, we were driving back to 358 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:02,920 the, it was like, we had entered the RV park and then we had like maybe like a four minute 359 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,960 drive from the front to the RV and it was started to pour and it was coming in and there 360 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:07,960 was lightning. 361 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,320 I swear, like hitting right in front of our car and I kept asking, are we going to be 362 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,280 okay if the, if the car gets stuck, are we going to be okay? 363 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:14,280 And they kept having to reassure me. 364 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,160 They're like, yeah, we're on rubber tires, but I was so afraid to walk the five feet 365 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,760 from the car inside the trailer because I didn't want to get struck. 366 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:22,760 Yeah. 367 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,320 I was like hyperventilating. 368 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:25,320 I started crying. 369 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Like I was so scared. 370 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,960 I don't worry that anything would like, I don't know. 371 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,760 I don't think that it's necessarily that I would feel like I would be harmed by the 372 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:34,760 lightning. 373 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,400 It's the like the loud and like the immediacy. 374 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,400 Yes. 375 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:40,400 I don't like that. 376 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,400 Oh, that freaks me out. 377 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,400 Yeah. 378 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:43,400 It's like having a brain aneurysm. 379 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,440 It's like immediate and you can't do shit about it. 380 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:47,440 Don't see. 381 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,640 You're going to put me in this fucking mental state right now on Leipzig Gasp. 382 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:53,240 I'm going to freak out. 383 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,240 You did the hands. 384 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,640 I did the hands because I was speaking in a French accent. 385 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:57,640 Le segues. 386 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,960 If that wasn't a French accent, voice memo us and tell me a French accent. 387 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:08,520 Tell us because I don't ever do it again. 388 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,040 Your mental health is super important to us. 389 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:15,120 So we are thrilled to announce that we are sponsored by BetterHelp to support you. 390 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:19,720 BetterHelp is the world's largest therapy service and it's 100% online. 391 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,680 With BetterHelp, you can access a network of over 30,000 licensed therapists with a 392 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:28,160 wide range of specialties and be linked with the perfect match for you. 393 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,200 Whether it's via text, chat or video call, you can talk to your therapist when it's 394 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,920 convenient for you. 395 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,440 When it comes to your mental health, BetterHelp is a convenient and affordable option for 396 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:38,680 therapy. 397 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,560 Get 10% off of your first month at betterhelp.com slash dakpod. 398 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:50,440 That's better, H-E-L-P slash d-A-K-P-O-D for 10% off your first month. 399 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:57,160 No, okay, but I know that a lot of people that are listening can relate with what we've 400 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,320 been talking about for the past five minutes even though we went off on a tangent. 401 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,440 So continue. 402 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,560 Protective avoidance behaviors are often linked or perceived as obsessive compulsive 403 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,240 disorder. 404 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:13,200 Some of the signs that you or a loved one may be experiencing this behavior is compulsive 405 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:19,480 cleaning, collecting or keeping lucky items, quote unquote lucky items, or making your 406 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,720 living situation or even your car, quote unquote safer. 407 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,200 Yeah, I don't do any of that. 408 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:30,360 I don't clean, I don't cook, I don't clean, but believe it or not, I don't really clean 409 00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:34,160 compulsively or obsessively. 410 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:39,120 If anything, I wait till it gets out of control and then I clean it all at once. 411 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:40,120 I don't do it all the time. 412 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:41,680 I like to designate a few days. 413 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,040 It's usually like my Mondays, my Tuesdays, my Wednesdays, something like that. 414 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:49,120 But I typically on Mondays or Tuesdays, I start getting in this mode where I'm like, 415 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,920 I have to do everything today. 416 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,920 And then I have to remind myself like, it's okay to not do everything today. 417 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,000 Like we need some stuff for tomorrow. 418 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,400 Because usually by the weekends, I'm doing a bunch of homework. 419 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,080 You're like, but what if tomorrow doesn't come? 420 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,440 What if lightning happens? 421 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:10,560 So this is all about maintaining the safety and control of your space. 422 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:11,560 Cleaning now? 423 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:12,560 Okay. 424 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:13,560 Oh yeah, I can see it. 425 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:14,560 I can see it. 426 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,560 Because it's maintaining your space. 427 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,560 Like you're owning your space, you're maintaining it, you're controlling it, right? 428 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:19,560 That's true. 429 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:25,200 It can also extend into food preparations, oftentimes preparing the same foods the same 430 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:26,640 ways every time. 431 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,400 Well, because if you try something new, it might make your stomach hurt or it might make 432 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:31,560 you sick or something. 433 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:37,280 I feel that way when I try something new, like if I tried wild pig and I haven't before 434 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,800 or whatever, I would be concerned that it would make me sick even though I eat ham every 435 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:41,800 day. 436 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:42,800 You know? 437 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,080 This can also be an isolating behavior as it gives the person experiencing this behavior 438 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,200 plenty to do in their own surroundings. 439 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:55,040 So since it can be isolating, like you don't go out as often or you don't make an effort 440 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:56,720 to go anywhere or do anything new. 441 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:57,720 I have to do this. 442 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,720 Yeah. 443 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,560 Like I can't, I have to do a bunch of laundry or you know, which is like seemingly like, 444 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:08,600 oh okay, that person's being responsible, but really it's an isolating behavior. 445 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,800 Most often the individual experiencing protective avoidance behaviors will also avoid entirely 446 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,280 or procrastinate conversations or events that are at risk of being potentially uncomfortable 447 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:19,880 for them. 448 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,720 That sounds also like a symptom of a personality disorder, right? 449 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,720 But that makes sense because this, what we're talking about like you said earlier is not 450 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:28,720 a diagnosis in itself. 451 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:29,720 Right. 452 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:30,720 It's a symptom of other diagnoses. 453 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:31,720 It's a symptom or a sign. 454 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:32,720 Yeah. 455 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,320 The difference between avoidance and procrastination is that with avoidance, you have no real intention 456 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,720 of actually completing that task. 457 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,960 With procrastination, the individual sets a deadline or intends to meet a certain goal. 458 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:44,960 Yeah, I feel that. 459 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,960 Yeah. 460 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,440 That's actually something that I'm learning about with my RBT certification is how to 461 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:57,360 reverse avoidant behaviors and how to produce exercises that help children that they throw 462 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:01,400 tantrums to avoid a task or an event or something. 463 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:06,200 And it's to kind of like outweigh that and outbalance it so that they do the task. 464 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:07,720 That makes so much sense. 465 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,720 Like yeah, okay, so they're avoiding doing something that they know that they need to 466 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:16,600 do and in order to get out of it, they throw this extreme tantrum or maybe do something 467 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:22,520 that's not necessarily like in alignment with, it's just, that's really interesting 468 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,040 you say that because I'm going to get to another point in a second. 469 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:26,320 But that's really interesting that you say that. 470 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,200 And I just want to be clear, if any RBTs are listening, I know tantrum is not politically 471 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,520 correct when you're taking notes, but that was just an example. 472 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,280 So again, reach out to a GP or a PCP if you feel like any of these behaviors are affecting 473 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,480 your quality of life. 474 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:39,480 Yeah. 475 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:46,200 So somatic avoidance behaviors are ones that avoid situations that elicit a response similar 476 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,240 to anxiety. 477 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,520 Okay. 478 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,960 So the somatic system, right? 479 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,840 These events or situations include risk taking events that create adrenaline responses such 480 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,320 as skydiving or if you are afraid of heights, maybe even climbing a tall ladder. 481 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,680 That's me. 482 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:04,680 It's literally me. 483 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,320 I'm like in the middle of a hotel on like the 12th floor and I like purposely don't 484 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,320 walk by the windows. 485 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,320 The window? 486 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,480 Because I don't get scared. 487 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,640 Right. 488 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:19,240 So this can also include becoming involved in a new relationship or being sexually active 489 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:24,760 with a partner because it creates that response. 490 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:28,720 Maybe scary movies or roller coasters they will avoid as well. 491 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,640 So these feelings are too similar to stress responses and therefore induce feelings of 492 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,400 panic and fear. 493 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,960 The individual who experiences this avoidance behavior becomes extremely focused on the 494 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,000 physical responses to these situations. 495 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,640 It can increase heart rate, blood pressure and cause major emotional distress. 496 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,440 Often these cases are linked to the individual having a past with medical complications or 497 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:56,360 even have obsessive thoughts about having major medical complications. 498 00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:00,200 So again, keeping contact with your GP or your PCP, honestly if you're experiencing the 499 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,880 symptoms you probably already are because you're probably concerned about medical issues. 500 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:06,880 Yeah. 501 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,920 And we've said it before in a lot of our episodes but I'll say it again here, stress and increased 502 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,640 amounts of cortisol and anxiety is very, very bad for your physical health. 503 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,320 Not just your mental health but it can be really strenuous on your heart. 504 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,520 So just make sure that, you know, I know we can't help those symptoms when they arise 505 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,760 but just make sure that you're being honest about those symptoms so that you can take 506 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,280 the proper steps before it gets to the point where it's bad. 507 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,280 Right. 508 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,600 And somebody might not even realize that they're having these signs or symptoms of the specific 509 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,640 avoidance behavior because they might just be like, oh, I just don't like roller coasters 510 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,240 or I just don't like scary movies. 511 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:41,920 You know, I don't like gore or blood. 512 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:42,920 Yeah. 513 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,920 You don't like that stuff either which is funny. 514 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:44,920 Exactly. 515 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,440 Yeah, I'm not a big scary movie gal. 516 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,440 Yeah. 517 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,240 But I don't think it's because I get scared. 518 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:50,920 I just, well, I don't like being scared. 519 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:51,920 I'll say that. 520 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:52,920 So I guess it might be because I get scared. 521 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,920 Yeah. 522 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,200 I just don't really find them very interesting. 523 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,240 Like most of them I'm like, that would never fucking happen. 524 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,240 Right. 525 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,000 But that's like, you know, almost on the brink of that, you know, that major emotional distress. 526 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,080 It's like, you don't want to put yourself in that situation. 527 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,080 Why would you want to? 528 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:08,080 Kind of a thing. 529 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,080 Exactly. 530 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,080 I would never go to a fucking haunted house again. 531 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,280 I don't want to put myself in a fucking scary situation. 532 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Those videos were awesome. 533 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,280 I didn't like them. 534 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,280 See, I didn't even watch them all because I didn't want to. 535 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:20,280 Really? 536 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,280 Oh, it was so cool. 537 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,200 I watched like the beginning to where I got the gist and I could respond accordingly 538 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:24,200 but I didn't watch them all. 539 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,920 It was the coolest thing. 540 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,480 So the next one we're going to talk about, the last one we're going to talk about is 541 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:29,480 substitution. 542 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,480 Fuck. 543 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,720 Is what? 544 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,880 Substitution of waitants. 545 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:39,280 So substitution of waitants occurs when one replaces an uncomfortable action with another 546 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,120 more comfortable option. 547 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:42,120 Yep. 548 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,840 This is literally so it's interesting because again, all the things I'm learning about, 549 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,400 it's like it kind of goes hand in hand with this. 550 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,640 So that's what I was kind of talking about with the tantrum thing, right? 551 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,640 Yeah. 552 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,760 So that's a little bit more detail and then we'll talk about that. 553 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,120 Some of these signs may be internalized or externalized. 554 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:01,640 An internal example may be becoming mad instead of sad about a breakup. 555 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,120 Oh my gosh. 556 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:09,920 Or an external example may be dealing with a loss of a loved one with substance abuse. 557 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,640 Wow. 558 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,480 That's really makes a lot of sense. 559 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,560 Like especially the mad and sad thing. 560 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,800 Yeah. 561 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:23,680 So is that a conditioned response because I feel like and this is just statistical facts, 562 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,000 more males than females tend to, when they get upset, they get angry rather than showing 563 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,440 their emotions and being sad because you can't do that. 564 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,800 Is that a conditioned response? 565 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,800 I would think so, yeah. 566 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,600 I mean, again, these are all what I would consider to be conditional responses. 567 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,800 I feel like these are all learned behaviors. 568 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,360 I feel like they are as much as they are learned, they can be unlearned with coping and things 569 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:46,360 like that. 570 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:47,360 Wow. 571 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:48,360 That's really interesting. 572 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:53,840 So this is the most common type of avoidance with substance abuse disorders. 573 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:58,320 All of these behaviors are an attempt to numb or avoid the stress and anxiety of what one 574 00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,320 is experiencing. 575 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:00,320 Wow. 576 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,960 So with the kiddos, with the tantrums, right, or whatever you want to call them, outbursts, 577 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:09,880 or instead of having to do the task at hand, it's more comfortable for them to do that 578 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,880 than face the anxiety or the stress of having to complete the task. 579 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:13,880 Yeah, absolutely. 580 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:14,880 Wow. 581 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:15,880 That's interesting. 582 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,600 I think in a lot of sense, just in everyday life where a lot of people, they get off of 583 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,880 work, they go to happy hour to have a drink to get rid of the stress or anxiety of the 584 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:24,880 day. 585 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,080 Some people might go to the gym afterwards, walk their dogs, walk in the park just to 586 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,520 get rid of that stress and anxiety. 587 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,520 Yeah. 588 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,240 So I guess there are some behaviors you can engage in that aren't necessarily about substituting 589 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,760 your stress and anxiety with a drug or an alcohol. 590 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,600 There's plenty of other ways to reduce stress. 591 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,720 Some people play video games. 592 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,560 Yeah, or just hang out with a friend or something. 593 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:45,560 For sure. 594 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,960 You should definitely reach out to a GP or a local health facility if you or someone 595 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,840 you know is potentially struggling with a substance abuse disorder. 596 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,240 Yeah, absolutely. 597 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,720 So some of the diagnosable disorders you might see from the DSM-5 that include these avoidant 598 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,600 behaviors would be avoidant personality disorder, which is an actual disorder. 599 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,440 Eating disorders, generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic 600 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,680 stress disorder, and substance use disorder, which again, each one of these are avoidant 601 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:14,680 behaviors. 602 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,840 They are not diagnosable disorders, but these are some of the disorders that might have 603 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,720 those as a criteria. 604 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,200 I feel like a little attacked. 605 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,200 Do you? 606 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,200 Have all yous? 607 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:27,200 No, no. 608 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,160 But a couple of them fit the bill for sure. 609 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:38,840 So again, contacting a mental health professional may help you better understand the root causes 610 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,880 of these types of behavior, gain tools to help cope with stress and anxiety, and be able 611 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:49,040 to assess stressful situations and be able to self-regulate when these things happen. 612 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:53,400 We've said something similar to this before, but this is a tool learned a long time ago, 613 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:54,400 right? 614 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,520 It was a skill that you learned a long time ago that no longer serves you. 615 00:28:57,520 --> 00:28:58,800 And I really believe that. 616 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,840 I feel like this is something that was a coping mechanism at one point that worked, but similar 617 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:07,120 to, you know, on a smaller scale, a two-year-old having a tantrum or an outburst. 618 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:12,480 We learned that that worked at some point, and we continued that into an adult life. 619 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,600 And we're in an adult life now, and you don't need to carry those things. 620 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,120 And that's exactly what I will be actually doing at my new job. 621 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,600 And the reason I keep bringing it up, because I haven't really talked to you much about 622 00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,720 it either, but also just for the listeners, if anyone has a psychology degree, you don't 623 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:26,720 really know what to do with it. 624 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,680 This is something that I really got involved in, and it's called, again, RBT certification. 625 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,360 You just need a bachelor's degree. 626 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,120 And that is what we will be doing, is reversing those behaviors before they become patterns 627 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,120 in adulthood. 628 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,120 Yeah. 629 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,160 And it does work with youth from the ages of 18 months to eight years that are on the 630 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:42,760 spectrum of autism. 631 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,920 Those are the clients that we specifically target. 632 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,920 However, this can be helpful for anybody in their youth, even into adulthood. 633 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:55,920 So it's no longer reinforcing behaviors that are considered negative or not even negative, 634 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:01,680 like a problem behavior or a behavior that's not generally accepted by society. 635 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,440 One of the examples is, you know, an adult man who is on the autism spectrum disorder, 636 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,880 he commonly will go up to somebody, a stranger, and give them a hug without asking permission. 637 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:15,560 That's something that he doesn't see as an incorrect behavior, but maybe people in general 638 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,000 society might recognize that as a little uncomfortable. 639 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,000 So it's not reinforcing that behavior or even giving it attention. 640 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,920 It's trying to do an alternative behavior, like you said, like the somatic symptoms. 641 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:27,920 Yeah, the substitution. 642 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:28,920 Yeah, the substitution. 643 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,040 So instead of approaching somebody and immediately hugging them, approaching somebody and asking 644 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,320 them for a hug is the alternative behavior, and that's much more acceptable in society 645 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:39,160 than just hugging a stranger. 646 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,160 Right. 647 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,160 So it's really cool and really interesting to learn. 648 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,200 It's all about reinforcement. 649 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,440 You can have positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement, you know, and whatever you 650 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:54,560 do, it's kind of molding the typical behavior that you would want to see in an organized 651 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:58,920 society or in a older classroom or any kind of setting that this person is going to be 652 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,880 in in their future lives is what we want to set them up for the best success possible in 653 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:04,880 those areas. 654 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:05,880 Yeah, absolutely. 655 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:06,880 Yeah. 656 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,880 Early intervention is very important. 657 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,880 Yeah. 658 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,480 So that's why I'm here. 659 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,360 That's all I have. 660 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,360 Oh, nice. 661 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,360 Yeah. 662 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,360 Thanks for listening. 663 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,360 Yeah. 664 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:19,280 It was just a, you know, a little quick, you know, little topic there. 665 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,200 I have some ideas for some other ones, but I think I'm going to Steve them because I think 666 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,120 they're going to be a little lengthier. 667 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,440 So I'm excited about that. 668 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,800 I have been writing down, I've just gotten like the bug all over again, and I feel like 669 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,960 it happens like once every couple of months, not that I ever get bored of doing this or 670 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,280 researching, but sometimes you just get like all these ideas that come up and come fresh 671 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,280 at you. 672 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,280 So true. 673 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,280 I have four mental breakdown topics like just yesterday and I have like 12 true crime topics. 674 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:44,280 Oh, no. 675 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,560 I hear your suggestions and I know what you guys want to hear. 676 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,280 And it's really, I mean, we're just two people, right? 677 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,800 And we're trying to make it work as best we can, but we will say that one of the suggestions 678 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:59,360 is Albert Fish and that is going to be coming out on the 29th and that is going to be just 679 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,440 for our tier two and three Patreon listeners are patrons. 680 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,440 Patrons. 681 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:11,000 And if you guys want to hear that mostly unedited raw footage, of course, we'll cut out the 682 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,720 throat clearing and the ums and the pauses, but we're going to give all of the details 683 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,760 and you know, gory details and stuff that a little bit more graphic than our normal content. 684 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:25,120 If you want to gain access to that, definitely suggest joining that top, that tier two and 685 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,240 three Patron Patreon tiers. 686 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:29,240 Yeah, that's coming up. 687 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:30,240 So that you can have access to it. 688 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,240 Five more days. 689 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,240 Oh my gosh. 690 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,240 It's exciting. 691 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:34,240 It's crazy. 692 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:35,240 So much for listening. 693 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:36,240 Do you have anything else? 694 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,240 No, I don't. 695 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,200 Check out diagnosingatkiller.com. 696 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,240 Check out all the handles at killerdiagnosis on Twitter and at diagnosingatkiller.com. 697 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,240 Anywhere else? 698 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,240 Anywhere else? 699 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,240 Email us. 700 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:49,240 Yeah, give us a rating too. 701 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,560 If you don't mind if you're on Apple or Spotify, we really use that data to kind of see like 702 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,560 what the listeners really like, what they don't. 703 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:56,560 Give us some feedback. 704 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,560 Honestly, even just send us an email if you don't want to rate us like out in the open. 705 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,560 Just send us an email, give us some pointers, whatever you think, because honestly we really 706 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,680 like hearing from you guys and other podcasters reach out to us too because we've been really 707 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:13,080 enjoying like collabing with Lili Skirinast and Movecation and all that stuff. 708 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,040 We definitely keep in contact with other podcasts too. 709 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,200 Even after collabs, before collabs, we really enjoy talking to you guys and just creating 710 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:21,200 an overall sense of community. 711 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,200 That's why we're really excited about the podcast festival. 712 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,200 I'm really excited. 713 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,200 And I get to see Lindsay. 714 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,200 Hi, Lindsay. 715 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,200 Lindsay. 716 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,320 Okay, well, we will talk to you guys later. 717 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,640 We'll be back on Thursday with another case and then Albert Fish shortly after that. 718 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:36,640 Yep. 719 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:37,640 All right. 720 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,640 Love you. 721 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,640 Bye. 722 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:47,960 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