Hello! Welcome to another episode of Dying, Nosing, and Killing, the mental breakdown.
I'm trying to say it with you.
I'm Koelle. I'm Kenna.
Welcome back. Thanks. Excited to talk to you guys again.
Yeah. It's been busy. Very busy. Very busy. Yeah, I'm taking a flax course. It's not fun.
It is 100% of my time right now. What is it on?
Speech and our communications. Oh no.
Yeah, it's 100% of my time. I hated that shit.
I'm also taking one of the only psych courses they have left that I haven't taken, which is Child Development.
Oh, I took that course. I really liked it.
It kind of plays into what I'm doing now. I don't know if you all heard of the DAK Lab, but I got a new job and I'm really excited about it.
I got my RBT certification in the works, and if you don't know what that is, Google it because I'm not going to talk about myself the whole time.
But you should just take a page from my book and the speech when you have to do it online just use the mannequin heads.
Oh yeah. This is all in our communications, so it has nothing to do with public speaking.
Oh, okay. It's not that.
It's all about communicating with one-on-one with people.
Oh, that's cool.
I actually got a message from my professor today asking if she could use one of my assignments for future classes.
Wow.
I was telling Trish all about it because it was like talking about confirming communication versus disconfirming communication and how there's these three pillars about recognition, acknowledgement, and then endorsement.
And so essentially the recognition would be when someone enters the room, there's verbal and nonverbal cues.
You can give someone high or you can just smile and do the sup nod.
Yeah, sup.
But that's recognition and then acknowledgement would be like, oh, I understand what you're saying, or even nodding during a conversation while you're listening.
And then endorsement is giving feedback that's in a positive or negative way.
So again, those are the confirming and then disconfirming.
So I use Trish as a great example of how she's this really great friend and how every time we see each other, we always yell, friendship!
And then we hug.
And so last night when I saw Trish, I got out of the car and she was standing next to me and I started walking past her and she's like, bitch, give me my hug!
Because she knows every time we hug and I started laughing because it was like, oh my gosh, I just wrote about you and how those are confirming recognition, confirming, acknowledgement, confirming endorsements.
And then there's disconfirming ones where it's like, you just walk into an establishment and somebody doesn't say anything to you.
Or I used to have a friend that she would invite me over and I would just, she'd be like, doors open, you know?
Like how disconfirming that is as far as acknowledgement?
You say doors open.
I say doors open to Casey.
That's different.
But I'm really good at ignoring someone when they walk in the bar, especially if it's someone I don't want to fucking say hi to.
I'm like, oh, you don't exist to me.
Sorry.
Anyway, back to my laughing spree of making it look like I'm having a great time.
No, I'm not petty like that, but I can be.
Sure.
I want to be.
But that's great.
That's a really great compliment that she wants to use your, I'm sorry, she didn't mean to assume the professor is female, but wants to use your page as, or your paper as an example.
It made me feel good.
Yeah, absolutely.
She's like, I'm going to change the names and I was like, it's okay.
I changed my disconfirming person's name anyways.
Oh well.
Like it's all anonymous.
Change it twice, then no one will ever fucking vote.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, that's awesome.
I know that's a really great way for you and I know flex courses are not easy, so it makes sense why we're kind of busy, you know, right now.
For sure.
I know I'm not in school right now, but I have a lot of things kind of get myself set up to get into the new job and everything.
So that's been taking up a lot of my time as well.
Two more weeks and then somewhere will be here and it'll be so much easier.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, thank you guys for joining us today for another mental breakdown.
We've been getting so much positive feedback.
I was telling Koel we actually doubled our amount of downloads in the last four months, which is so cool because we have twice as many as we did in December and we've had been around for like a year and a half before that.
And we only had like, I think 8,000 and now we're up to 16,000.
So you guys are doing your jobs out there because you guys are clearly spreading the word.
Yeah, seriously.
And I was just looking at our analytics today on RSS.
We can see like the whole world map and like where the hotspots are and we are like popping up in the East Coast.
Like we are like all around like the East Central and then like LA really loves us.
Everything.
So thank you guys.
And of course, are not in America listeners.
We have a lot of people that listen to us in the UK.
It's like everywhere around the UK.
Nice.
Thank you guys for listening to us.
We love you and we appreciate it.
Yeah.
Speaking of listeners, I do just want to shout out a couple people.
We have a really loyal listener follower.
Her name is Maggie and she always messages us and says like, she's the one that gave us the idea for like yikes on bikes for the merch.
Yeah.
So she met, she met, sorry.
So she messaged us yesterday on the Instagram and just said, I wanted to reach out and tell you that the merch looks great.
It's incredible.
You know, I love the yikes on bikes.
Like I'm definitely going to get it soon.
The yikes on bikes on the canvas bag looks so cute.
Looks so good.
I love that one.
And she was also commenting on the fact that there's so many different color options.
I love the fact that you can choose like the style and the color.
It's not just like you're married to one as soon as you see it.
Right.
So definitely go look through that.
I know it kind of might look on our merch website that there's only one color, but you can choose between, I think there's like 15 or 18 different colors.
Different colors.
And then they come in different fabrics too.
Yeah.
I think there's even like a, like a heathered blue or a heathered gray.
Yeah.
Definitely.
The shirts, yeah, there's like a hoodie.
There's a long sleeve, short sleeve, quarter sleeve.
Like there's a bunch of different options.
She definitely suggested something else, merch wise.
I'm not going to say it here, but I'll just tease it.
So we have some new merch designs in the works as well.
She said, I got to know what episode the, is he the lady?
Is he the lady?
Yeah.
I don't know what episode that's from because I can't find it.
So if anyone is seeing, is he the lady?
It's from our Robert Durst episode.
Go listen because it took me way too long to realize he was impersonating a female.
Absolutely.
And then it has nothing to do with gender specifications whatsoever.
I hope nobody thinks that it's, it's a, it's a wild story.
Yeah.
And it was just a funny quote.
Yeah.
And it kind of came to the realization that there was some tomfoolery happening.
Yeah.
Similarly to me not knowing that John Lennon was dead and four quarters of the way of the
four quarters, three quarters of the way of the episode.
So yeah.
Anyway, so thanks Maggie for consistently just being so nice and so communicative.
We really appreciate that.
And before we do get started, I have one more message that we got from someone on Instagram.
They don't have a name on here.
It's like a tag name.
So I'm not sure what their name is, but they messaged and said, I don't know if y'all
check your Instagram messages, but which tells me that they're in the beginning of our episodes
because we hadn't been talking about that yet.
They said, okay, I don't normally let random accounts follow me on this profile, but I
looked through y'all's page and I was like, okay, true crime.
I'm game.
Let's see what this is all about.
I found y'all on Spotify and I was like, what the hell?
Why not?
And I've been listening at work for the last couple hours and I got to say, with a bunch
of wise, definitely a new favorite podcast of mine.
Yay.
I've already recommended you to a couple of friends.
You're both hilarious and detailed in all the right ways.
So thank you for the follow.
Y'all just gained a loyal listener.
I'm excited to keep listening to help pass the time at work.
Aw, thanks, listener.
Which is awesome.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for that lovely message.
We love talking to you guys and getting feedback, whether it's positive or negative.
We don't necessarily talk about the negative, but when it does come up and it's something
that we recognize that we can correct, we will talk about that correction in a positive
way without shouting out the person that said it.
Of course.
Because we, again, we always want to make sure that we have correct information out there.
So some of that is duty else help as well.
So we really appreciate that.
Plus it means that you're paying attention and I enjoy that.
Absolutely.
Sometimes I'll zone out.
I mean, earlier today I was listening to a podcast and I had to rewind the last minute
or two, like three times because I kept thinking of something else in my head and realized I'd
missed the whole information they were saying for like almost two minutes.
I was like, oh my God, like pay attention.
My ADHD brain, but anyway, just wanted to shout those out.
If you don't already have us on social media, you can follow us anywhere at Diagnosing a
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So go check that out and then you get 15% off on those tickets with our link, D-A-K-P-O-D
and now I'm going to let you talk.
Go ahead.
So, you know, at the beginning of the episode, we were kind of talking about confirming or
disconfirming things like that, especially around like acknowledgement.
I thought that, because one of the things that I said in my disconfirming relationship
was that hardly ever would it get past that acknowledgement stage.
So endorsement was never really like a topic of conversation with this individual.
And so I think mostly what I wanted to focus on was avoidance behaviors.
Okay.
I kind of had an inkling that it might have had to do with your paper and your course
when you started talking about it earlier.
I was like, is this going to be our mental breakdown topic?
We're going to talk about five different types of avoidance behaviors.
Wow.
I didn't realize there was that many.
I guess it makes sense though.
Right.
So the first one we're going to talk about, we're just going to hop right in, is going
to be situational avoidance.
Stimul avoidance manifests as staying away from people, places or things most often due
to past traumatic experiences.
That makes sense.
So some people may avoid crowded elevators or large crowds, firework displays for veterans
sometimes, right?
Or avoiding barren streets, especially at night if one was maybe assaulted in a similar
situation.
Makes sense.
But it doesn't necessarily have to be combined with PTSD.
Avoiding forested areas because of fear of spiders or deep water because of fear of
sharks is even considered a situational avoidance.
I have definitely found myself acting out situational avoidance.
Like I don't go to certain places even today because of past trauma.
Another small example of this, again, not linked to PTSD, might be not going to the
same places but you and your ex used to frequent out of fear of running into them.
That is technically situational avoidance.
Well, I don't, okay, I also do that.
I don't go to certain places that I know that people that are no longer in my life might
be because I don't, it's not that I'm afraid of running into them.
I just don't want to fucking deal with it.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, I don't want to have to be a dick.
So I'm just not going to go.
I'm just not going to go.
That would be situational avoidance.
Wow.
I do that.
So just to be clear, we're not talking about a specific disorder.
This is not in the DSM-5.
This is just specific behaviors related to like, you know, one of the best things you
can do if you're struggling with situational avoidance is to practice self-care regularly.
Start exchanging your negative thoughts to positive ones by encouraging yourself from
within.
And in some cases, come to accept that it's okay to be affected by these certain situations.
Either way, your fears are valid.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I just also wanted to pepper it in.
It actually might come up in a different category, but it makes me think of like, like when I
go to a place that has a large crowd, I don't necessarily care for large crowds, but I'm
not going to avoid them because the excitement of the event outweighs the fear of the crowd.
But I find myself like constantly thinking the worst, like mass shooting or mass bombing
or things.
And I have to continuously remind myself, okay, listen, bitch, if this is going to happen,
you have no way of controlling it.
Like, hopefully it doesn't, but you can't fucking control it if it does.
So just try to enjoy yourself and then guess what?
It never happens.
Not going to win.
So what's funny, you bring that up because the next one is cognitive avoidance.
Oh, there you go.
Cognitive avoidance would be reminding one to stay away from intrusive thoughts.
Oh my God, that's so funny.
So our minds tend to sometimes go to places and attempt to keep us like these specific
thoughts at bay.
We may repeat prayer or mantras telling ourselves to ignore certain thoughts like these.
Sounds like maybe like, don't think like that, don't think like that, don't think like that.
That's me as fuck.
These thoughts are absolutely natural occurrences and it does prepare our brains for what ifs
and allows us to interpret perceived potential threats.
Although this is a common occurrence for most people, it can eventually become unhealthy
because doing these thoughts can actually become ritualistic.
Or obsessive, yeah.
If you're experiencing chronic worry or obsessive thoughts regularly, it might be time to reach
out to someone like a GP or a PCP.
That's also me.
But I know why mine happens.
Well, you've also been diagnosed.
That's why I'm like, okay, I can just like consult with my doctor but they're gonna tell
me the same thing.
I already know.
You have a CPT.
That's fine.
I have a great life.
It's fine.
I do.
I mean, like you said, you still like go enjoy things.
I do.
Yeah, I do.
But it's sometimes, I'll be real, it does get hard sometimes to enjoy myself when I'm
so constantly worried about what if.
Of course, yeah.
I think I get like, I think I feel that more often with people.
Like I think like, oh, what are they doing?
Or like, or like, are they thinking bad about me?
Like, what did I do?
Like, what did I say?
And I'll get stuck in a loop.
But it doesn't happen so often.
Like if I'm in the moment and I'm able to talk to someone, like, I don't worry about
that.
I don't worry about the way that they're looking at me or like the way that my behavior is,
my body language.
I don't really worry about that so much, but it's when I'm left alone to those thoughts,
which is probably most people.
Yeah, my biggest thing, like where it comes from is not where it comes from, but like
the most common one is something unexpected happening or something spontaneous happening,
like someone snapping all of the sudden.
Yeah.
Like I have an irrational fear of someone in the car next to me in the light shooting
me.
Me too.
Irrational fear.
I had that like three times last night.
I was like, why is this guy matching my speed?
And this therapist, my therapist.
My therapist told me that's not an irrational fear because rationally that could happen.
It just probably won't happen.
You know, I think it every time, like I will not sit right next to someone.
60% of the time someone's going to shoot me.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, seriously.
Yeah, right.
I will literally not sit next to someone out of light because I'm afraid if they can
see me, they can shoot me.
I will position specifically like the middle of my doors right where their head is.
So if they try to shoot me, they couldn't because they can't see me.
Like it's bad.
So like if I see somebody sitting like right at the line, my, yeah, my passengers side
mirror or window is going to be towards their like back window.
Oh, no.
So I don't make eye contact.
But are also like another big thing.
And I think this is probably what it comes from because I bartended for like almost 10
years and a lot like nine out of 10 times when you cut someone off, they freak out.
Right.
And I think that's what it comes from because there was so much, I don't want to say violence,
there's so much explosiveness when a drunk person was cut off.
Even if I wasn't the one cutting them off, it scared me that like someone was going to
leave the bar and come back with a gun and try to get revenge on the person that cut them
off or whatever.
And I've seen like, I mean, I've had glass glasses full of beer thrown at me, like thrown
at my managers.
Like really?
Yeah.
Like it's people are assholes.
They get cut off.
Like they don't want to get cut off.
They want to keep drinking.
And I don't know if that's necessarily where it comes from, but that's what I think of.
Like someone can snap so quickly and it probably also comes into me researching true crime cases
where people do snap very quickly.
But one, one for me that's like, I think it's just the unpredictability is I'm terrified
of lightning like thunder all day.
I don't like lightning.
And the other day when we were having that storm, I was sitting at the computer and the
lights started flickering and the lightning was really close.
I had to take my headset off, stop doing homework and research.
And I just started pacing in the middle of the house because I was like, okay, well,
the chances are that if it's going to hit a window, it's going to be one of these windows.
And as long as I'm like bouncing to and from, you know, like I'm not going to be standing
next to the window.
And it was so obsessive.
No, yeah.
It, it, it made me sick to my stomach.
I feel that way only when I'm in the trailer.
Yeah.
Our parents have an RV full time down at the coast and we stayed me and Casey and then
two of our friends stayed for like a week, like a couple of weeks ago.
And there was this really big storm that came through and I was, we were driving back to
the, it was like, we had entered the RV park and then we had like maybe like a four minute
drive from the front to the RV and it was started to pour and it was coming in and there
was lightning.
I swear, like hitting right in front of our car and I kept asking, are we going to be
okay if the, if the car gets stuck, are we going to be okay?
And they kept having to reassure me.
They're like, yeah, we're on rubber tires, but I was so afraid to walk the five feet
from the car inside the trailer because I didn't want to get struck.
Yeah.
I was like hyperventilating.
I started crying.
Like I was so scared.
I don't worry that anything would like, I don't know.
I don't think that it's necessarily that I would feel like I would be harmed by the
lightning.
It's the like the loud and like the immediacy.
Yes.
I don't like that.
Oh, that freaks me out.
Yeah.
It's like having a brain aneurysm.
It's like immediate and you can't do shit about it.
Don't see.
You're going to put me in this fucking mental state right now on Leipzig Gasp.
I'm going to freak out.
You did the hands.
I did the hands because I was speaking in a French accent.
Le segues.
If that wasn't a French accent, voice memo us and tell me a French accent.
Tell us because I don't ever do it again.
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No, okay, but I know that a lot of people that are listening can relate with what we've
been talking about for the past five minutes even though we went off on a tangent.
So continue.
Protective avoidance behaviors are often linked or perceived as obsessive compulsive
disorder.
Some of the signs that you or a loved one may be experiencing this behavior is compulsive
cleaning, collecting or keeping lucky items, quote unquote lucky items, or making your
living situation or even your car, quote unquote safer.
Yeah, I don't do any of that.
I don't clean, I don't cook, I don't clean, but believe it or not, I don't really clean
compulsively or obsessively.
If anything, I wait till it gets out of control and then I clean it all at once.
I don't do it all the time.
I like to designate a few days.
It's usually like my Mondays, my Tuesdays, my Wednesdays, something like that.
But I typically on Mondays or Tuesdays, I start getting in this mode where I'm like,
I have to do everything today.
And then I have to remind myself like, it's okay to not do everything today.
Like we need some stuff for tomorrow.
Because usually by the weekends, I'm doing a bunch of homework.
You're like, but what if tomorrow doesn't come?
What if lightning happens?
So this is all about maintaining the safety and control of your space.
Cleaning now?
Okay.
Oh yeah, I can see it.
I can see it.
Because it's maintaining your space.
Like you're owning your space, you're maintaining it, you're controlling it, right?
That's true.
It can also extend into food preparations, oftentimes preparing the same foods the same
ways every time.
Well, because if you try something new, it might make your stomach hurt or it might make
you sick or something.
I feel that way when I try something new, like if I tried wild pig and I haven't before
or whatever, I would be concerned that it would make me sick even though I eat ham every
day.
You know?
This can also be an isolating behavior as it gives the person experiencing this behavior
plenty to do in their own surroundings.
So since it can be isolating, like you don't go out as often or you don't make an effort
to go anywhere or do anything new.
I have to do this.
Yeah.
Like I can't, I have to do a bunch of laundry or you know, which is like seemingly like,
oh okay, that person's being responsible, but really it's an isolating behavior.
Most often the individual experiencing protective avoidance behaviors will also avoid entirely
or procrastinate conversations or events that are at risk of being potentially uncomfortable
for them.
That sounds also like a symptom of a personality disorder, right?
But that makes sense because this, what we're talking about like you said earlier is not
a diagnosis in itself.
Right.
It's a symptom of other diagnoses.
It's a symptom or a sign.
Yeah.
The difference between avoidance and procrastination is that with avoidance, you have no real intention
of actually completing that task.
With procrastination, the individual sets a deadline or intends to meet a certain goal.
Yeah, I feel that.
Yeah.
That's actually something that I'm learning about with my RBT certification is how to
reverse avoidant behaviors and how to produce exercises that help children that they throw
tantrums to avoid a task or an event or something.
And it's to kind of like outweigh that and outbalance it so that they do the task.
That makes so much sense.
Like yeah, okay, so they're avoiding doing something that they know that they need to
do and in order to get out of it, they throw this extreme tantrum or maybe do something
that's not necessarily like in alignment with, it's just, that's really interesting
you say that because I'm going to get to another point in a second.
But that's really interesting that you say that.
And I just want to be clear, if any RBTs are listening, I know tantrum is not politically
correct when you're taking notes, but that was just an example.
So again, reach out to a GP or a PCP if you feel like any of these behaviors are affecting
your quality of life.
Yeah.
So somatic avoidance behaviors are ones that avoid situations that elicit a response similar
to anxiety.
Okay.
So the somatic system, right?
These events or situations include risk taking events that create adrenaline responses such
as skydiving or if you are afraid of heights, maybe even climbing a tall ladder.
That's me.
It's literally me.
I'm like in the middle of a hotel on like the 12th floor and I like purposely don't
walk by the windows.
The window?
Because I don't get scared.
Right.
So this can also include becoming involved in a new relationship or being sexually active
with a partner because it creates that response.
Maybe scary movies or roller coasters they will avoid as well.
So these feelings are too similar to stress responses and therefore induce feelings of
panic and fear.
The individual who experiences this avoidance behavior becomes extremely focused on the
physical responses to these situations.
It can increase heart rate, blood pressure and cause major emotional distress.
Often these cases are linked to the individual having a past with medical complications or
even have obsessive thoughts about having major medical complications.
So again, keeping contact with your GP or your PCP, honestly if you're experiencing the
symptoms you probably already are because you're probably concerned about medical issues.
Yeah.
And we've said it before in a lot of our episodes but I'll say it again here, stress and increased
amounts of cortisol and anxiety is very, very bad for your physical health.
Not just your mental health but it can be really strenuous on your heart.
So just make sure that, you know, I know we can't help those symptoms when they arise
but just make sure that you're being honest about those symptoms so that you can take
the proper steps before it gets to the point where it's bad.
Right.
And somebody might not even realize that they're having these signs or symptoms of the specific
avoidance behavior because they might just be like, oh, I just don't like roller coasters
or I just don't like scary movies.
You know, I don't like gore or blood.
Yeah.
You don't like that stuff either which is funny.
Exactly.
Yeah, I'm not a big scary movie gal.
Yeah.
But I don't think it's because I get scared.
I just, well, I don't like being scared.
I'll say that.
So I guess it might be because I get scared.
Yeah.
I just don't really find them very interesting.
Like most of them I'm like, that would never fucking happen.
Right.
But that's like, you know, almost on the brink of that, you know, that major emotional distress.
It's like, you don't want to put yourself in that situation.
Why would you want to?
Kind of a thing.
Exactly.
I would never go to a fucking haunted house again.
I don't want to put myself in a fucking scary situation.
Those videos were awesome.
I didn't like them.
See, I didn't even watch them all because I didn't want to.
Really?
Oh, it was so cool.
I watched like the beginning to where I got the gist and I could respond accordingly
but I didn't watch them all.
It was the coolest thing.
So the next one we're going to talk about, the last one we're going to talk about is
substitution.
Fuck.
Is what?
Substitution of waitants.
So substitution of waitants occurs when one replaces an uncomfortable action with another
more comfortable option.
Yep.
This is literally so it's interesting because again, all the things I'm learning about,
it's like it kind of goes hand in hand with this.
So that's what I was kind of talking about with the tantrum thing, right?
Yeah.
So that's a little bit more detail and then we'll talk about that.
Some of these signs may be internalized or externalized.
An internal example may be becoming mad instead of sad about a breakup.
Oh my gosh.
Or an external example may be dealing with a loss of a loved one with substance abuse.
Wow.
That's really makes a lot of sense.
Like especially the mad and sad thing.
Yeah.
So is that a conditioned response because I feel like and this is just statistical facts,
more males than females tend to, when they get upset, they get angry rather than showing
their emotions and being sad because you can't do that.
Is that a conditioned response?
I would think so, yeah.
I mean, again, these are all what I would consider to be conditional responses.
I feel like these are all learned behaviors.
I feel like they are as much as they are learned, they can be unlearned with coping and things
like that.
Wow.
That's really interesting.
So this is the most common type of avoidance with substance abuse disorders.
All of these behaviors are an attempt to numb or avoid the stress and anxiety of what one
is experiencing.
Wow.
So with the kiddos, with the tantrums, right, or whatever you want to call them, outbursts,
or instead of having to do the task at hand, it's more comfortable for them to do that
than face the anxiety or the stress of having to complete the task.
Yeah, absolutely.
Wow.
That's interesting.
I think in a lot of sense, just in everyday life where a lot of people, they get off of
work, they go to happy hour to have a drink to get rid of the stress or anxiety of the
day.
Some people might go to the gym afterwards, walk their dogs, walk in the park just to
get rid of that stress and anxiety.
Yeah.
So I guess there are some behaviors you can engage in that aren't necessarily about substituting
your stress and anxiety with a drug or an alcohol.
There's plenty of other ways to reduce stress.
Some people play video games.
Yeah, or just hang out with a friend or something.
For sure.
You should definitely reach out to a GP or a local health facility if you or someone
you know is potentially struggling with a substance abuse disorder.
Yeah, absolutely.
So some of the diagnosable disorders you might see from the DSM-5 that include these avoidant
behaviors would be avoidant personality disorder, which is an actual disorder.
Eating disorders, generalized anxiety disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic
stress disorder, and substance use disorder, which again, each one of these are avoidant
behaviors.
They are not diagnosable disorders, but these are some of the disorders that might have
those as a criteria.
I feel like a little attacked.
Do you?
Have all yous?
No, no.
But a couple of them fit the bill for sure.
So again, contacting a mental health professional may help you better understand the root causes
of these types of behavior, gain tools to help cope with stress and anxiety, and be able
to assess stressful situations and be able to self-regulate when these things happen.
We've said something similar to this before, but this is a tool learned a long time ago,
right?
It was a skill that you learned a long time ago that no longer serves you.
And I really believe that.
I feel like this is something that was a coping mechanism at one point that worked, but similar
to, you know, on a smaller scale, a two-year-old having a tantrum or an outburst.
We learned that that worked at some point, and we continued that into an adult life.
And we're in an adult life now, and you don't need to carry those things.
And that's exactly what I will be actually doing at my new job.
And the reason I keep bringing it up, because I haven't really talked to you much about
it either, but also just for the listeners, if anyone has a psychology degree, you don't
really know what to do with it.
This is something that I really got involved in, and it's called, again, RBT certification.
You just need a bachelor's degree.
And that is what we will be doing, is reversing those behaviors before they become patterns
in adulthood.
Yeah.
And it does work with youth from the ages of 18 months to eight years that are on the
spectrum of autism.
Those are the clients that we specifically target.
However, this can be helpful for anybody in their youth, even into adulthood.
So it's no longer reinforcing behaviors that are considered negative or not even negative,
like a problem behavior or a behavior that's not generally accepted by society.
One of the examples is, you know, an adult man who is on the autism spectrum disorder,
he commonly will go up to somebody, a stranger, and give them a hug without asking permission.
That's something that he doesn't see as an incorrect behavior, but maybe people in general
society might recognize that as a little uncomfortable.
So it's not reinforcing that behavior or even giving it attention.
It's trying to do an alternative behavior, like you said, like the somatic symptoms.
Yeah, the substitution.
So instead of approaching somebody and immediately hugging them, approaching somebody and asking
them for a hug is the alternative behavior, and that's much more acceptable in society
than just hugging a stranger.
Right.
So it's really cool and really interesting to learn.
It's all about reinforcement.
You can have positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement, you know, and whatever you
do, it's kind of molding the typical behavior that you would want to see in an organized
society or in a older classroom or any kind of setting that this person is going to be
in in their future lives is what we want to set them up for the best success possible in
those areas.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
Early intervention is very important.
Yeah.
So that's why I'm here.
That's all I have.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
Thanks for listening.
Yeah.
It was just a, you know, a little quick, you know, little topic there.
I have some ideas for some other ones, but I think I'm going to Steve them because I think
they're going to be a little lengthier.
So I'm excited about that.
I have been writing down, I've just gotten like the bug all over again, and I feel like
it happens like once every couple of months, not that I ever get bored of doing this or
researching, but sometimes you just get like all these ideas that come up and come fresh
at you.
So true.
I have four mental breakdown topics like just yesterday and I have like 12 true crime topics.
Oh, no.
I hear your suggestions and I know what you guys want to hear.
And it's really, I mean, we're just two people, right?
And we're trying to make it work as best we can, but we will say that one of the suggestions
is Albert Fish and that is going to be coming out on the 29th and that is going to be just
for our tier two and three Patreon listeners are patrons.
Patrons.
And if you guys want to hear that mostly unedited raw footage, of course, we'll cut out the
throat clearing and the ums and the pauses, but we're going to give all of the details
and you know, gory details and stuff that a little bit more graphic than our normal content.
If you want to gain access to that, definitely suggest joining that top, that tier two and
three Patron Patreon tiers.
Yeah, that's coming up.
So that you can have access to it.
Five more days.
Oh my gosh.
It's exciting.
It's crazy.
So much for listening.
Do you have anything else?
No, I don't.
Check out diagnosingatkiller.com.
Check out all the handles at killerdiagnosis on Twitter and at diagnosingatkiller.com.
Anywhere else?
Email us.
Yeah, give us a rating too.
If you don't mind if you're on Apple or Spotify, we really use that data to kind of see like
what the listeners really like, what they don't.
Give us some feedback.
Honestly, even just send us an email if you don't want to rate us like out in the open.
Just send us an email, give us some pointers, whatever you think, because honestly we really
like hearing from you guys and other podcasters reach out to us too because we've been really
enjoying like collabing with Lili Skirinast and Movecation and all that stuff.
We definitely keep in contact with other podcasts too.
Even after collabs, before collabs, we really enjoy talking to you guys and just creating
an overall sense of community.
That's why we're really excited about the podcast festival.
I'm really excited.
And I get to see Lindsay.
Hi, Lindsay.
Lindsay.
Okay, well, we will talk to you guys later.
We'll be back on Thursday with another case and then Albert Fish shortly after that.
Yep.
All right.
Love you.
Bye.
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