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Welcome back to another episode of I was gonna fucking say Lady You're Scaring Us
because I'm sorry, I'm thinking of their name. We don't host that podcast. Welcome
back to another episode of Diagnostica Killer. I guess featuring Lady You're Scared Nuts
kind of because we're doing the collab today. Love it. This is the mental breakdown and
my name is Kenna. I'm Koelle. And we're super fucking excited for all of this. I cannot
wait. I've been thinking about this like all day. I know I'm excited. I'm excited to
listen to them too. Of course. No, I'm super excited. There's also a part of me that like
as soon as it releases, like I want to stay up until midnight, like the day that it releases
so that I can like listen to it immediately when it comes out. But I love that. I'll get
some sleep. I love that because I usually do that. I'm usually up. So I'm like, oh,
a new episode dropping. Yeah. When we do our episodes. Yeah. We listen to ourselves. I
don't know if you saw my post on Instagram the other day that I was out with Trish and
I was like, would it be selfish of me to listen to the episode? She's like, it's either gonna
be you talking or you talking. So I don't really care. Either way, you're gonna be talking
like if we listen to it or not. Speaking of friends and homies at the bar, we have Stimax
that has become a $20 patron pledge and he is in the diagnoses tier. So shout out to
Stimaximus. Thank you for your contribution to the Patreon. And I hope that you're very
excited for the bonus episode that's coming out on the 29th. The pressure. The pressure.
But yeah. So we have that still in the works guys. We're gonna have a bonus episode for
those of you that this is your first time hearing it for our second and third tier patrons.
That is going to be one extra bonus episode a month. And then of course, every other episode
will be early and ad free for all tiers of the Patreon. Patreon. Yeah, Patreon. I feel
like that word just doesn't make sense to me. So yeah. Patreon. I like when you call them
patrons. That's what they're called, right? Patrons. Oh, they're patrons. Yeah. But you
say, you say patrons all the time anyways. That's just part of your vocabulary. Like
when you say like your, your patronage, you will see that. Or if like English person.
I'm a patron at the bar. I thought that was pronounced. No, well, it can be if you're
British. I'm turning British. I like to write my realized with an S-E, which is like the
way that you would write it in English. That's how I write it. Isn't it? Z-E. Realize. Yeah.
When I was taking my notes for Catherine Knight, I found myself like putting an extra you and
shit. Like, you know the way they stuff. Like, hallour. Yeah. Before we get started, just
want to remind you guys about our social media. We are at diagnosing a killer, any platform
except for Twitter, which is at Killer Diagnosis. Definitely keep sending us some DMs and some
emails. We really like to hear from you guys. Don't forget to check out diagnosingkiller.com.
And we have all of our links on there, including our link tree, our Instagram, our Twitter,
our email, all that good stuff. All the good stuff. And we just dropped new merch. And I'm
really excited. The eyeballs with the smile is my fucking favorite thing right now. It's
so cool. I'm obsessed with it. Me too. I made a design for the merch and it's literally
a pair of eyeballs and it says diagnosingkiller.com in the form of a mouth. So it looks like a
creepy smiley face. Put it on a pillow and buy it because I'm going to. It looks really
cool on a pillow. Yeah, it does. And lastly, before we get started, I just want to publicly
announce and share a huge congratulations to my friends, John and Amy Cross that got
married this weekend. And I was super, super excited to see them. Super glad to have been
a part of that amazing ceremony. Me and Casey had the privilege of being able to attend
and I got to see a couple people from high school, which was really cool. And they were
all asking you about my podcast. So how long have you all been listening? Thank you for
shouting out my podcast. And some people have heard about it now and they didn't know about
it before. So I was able to kind of talk about that as well.
That's fine. That's exciting. But yeah, congrats to the Crosses and we're going to get into
this episode. Yay. So like we said, we are doing this collab episode with Lady You're
Scaring Us, that is Hillary, Taylor and Morgan. Hillary and Taylor are like both super true
crime junkies and Morgan is like past. Like I don't care about any of that. The first
episode that they did was John Bane Ramsey because Morgan didn't even know who she was.
So if that gives you any idea about the podcast, but they're, I mean, they're all very intelligent.
Like you were saying last episode, they're all very witty and I think it's mad.
Yeah, exactly. Taylor, it was funny because you were listening to them the other day and
I came in the kitchen and I thought it was our podcast because I think that Taylor sounds
like me. Yeah, y'all do y'all something very similar.
Yeah. And then Hillary was texting me the other day and she's like, Oh my God, I had
Taylor listening to all those episodes and she said that you sound like her. And I was
like, no, she sounds like me. I'm older. But yeah, so I don't even know if I'm older.
Actually, I'm not sure how old Taylor is. I think she's about my age.
Yeah. But yeah, so go ahead and give them a listen. And then I don't know if you're
listening to this episode before or after them. So if you are from their podcast and
you're listening to us, hello and thank you for being here.
Welcome. So just as a recap, Lady You're Scared in Us is doing an episode on the Trump family.
Some sort of shared psychosis was going on with them and they had asked us to do a mental
breakdown to explain that shared psychosis. So we're going to get right into that. So
the phenomena or...
Well, and I just went through like 15 minutes. I'm trying to figure out if phenomenon or
phenomena is the singular term. So I'm just going to pretend like I know it and I'm just
going to say it under my breath. This phenomenon or syndrome that we're going to be talking
about. Yes. It's called Folly Adoo. Folly Adoo. Folly Adoo. Folly Adoo. Folly Adoo.
It's French. And any of our French listeners, I sincerely apologize for the next 30 minutes
of me mispronouncing a bunch of words. Folly Adoo is a collection of rare psychiatric
syndromes in which symptoms of a delusional belief and sometimes hallucinations are transmitted
from one person to another. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, it's very interesting, which is why
I'm super excited to hear this case. So this is additionally referred to as quote Folly
of two or quote madness shared by two in English. Other nicknames for this disorder include
delusional disorder or shared psychotic disorder. So those are the DSM-5 definitions or names.
The same syndrome that is shared by more than two people may be called Folly Atois or Quattra,
which is three or four, of course. Further, it can be referred to as Folly in family,
which translates to family madness or even Folly A-plusures or madness of several. So
kind of like plural. Okay. Again, butchering these fucking French words. I'm sorry. I
love you guys. I've never been part of a finale at all.
Butch. This disorder was first conceptualized in the 19th century. It was actually described
as a Folly communique in 1860 by Jules Viallegre. I don't know how to say his name. I'm sorry.
You're doing great. You're doing great. This is a French neurologist and psychiatrist.
He studied medicine at the University of Perry, and while he was a student, he worked as an
intern at the Sharenton Mental Institution. He was actually the first physician to discover
that the cerebral cortex was divided into six layers of alternate gray and white matter.
Interesting. In the field of psychiatry, Viallegre did research on the involuntary nature of hallucinations
and the dynamics of the stage between sleep and wakefulness, which fucking this morning,
I just, I had to wait too much to drink at the wedding. And so this morning, I literally
couldn't sleep for like five hours from like seven to noon. And I was in that like middle
sleep where I thought I was like getting up and getting ready and like getting my bags
packed and stuff. And I was like so thirsty. I had a dream that I drank like two whole
bottles of water that I found on the floor as I woke up to no water. It was so sad.
That happened to me the other day. His mom and dad took a flight to California the other
day. And I, same thing, was I didn't sleep well. And I was right in between that it was
like between seven and nine because I knew I had to wake up at nine. And I remember it
was a dreamlike state, but I was in my bed and I could hear mom outside my window going,
oh, she's going to be so pissed. There's the, the rogue has a flat tire now too. And my
car had had a flat tire the day before. And then I was like, oh my God, they're going
to abandon me here with no working vehicle. And then I had gotten up and I was helping
them with the car and everything. And then when I woke up, I hate that I was essentially
repeating the exact same thing. It was so strange. So mad. And like, I hate that I don't
get a deep sleep when that happens because my, I can feel my eyes like fluttering and
stuff, but I can't wake up. Yeah. So yeah, he studied that stage between sleep and mindfulness.
In 1854, Bollier provided a description of a psychiatric disorder involving both depressive
and manic episodes in the same individual. This was before the coined term bipolar disorder.
So he kind of is studying bipolar disorder without knowing what he was studying. Yeah.
He did refer to this as a foley and doublet form or dual form insanity. Unbeknownst to
him at the time, another psychiatrist by the name of Jean-Pierre Faleray had described almost
the exact same condition with slight differences in an article prior to this naming. He referred
to his discovered disorder as a foley, circulary or circular madness. Again, these words are
hard. Funny enough, Farley would be the same psychiatrist that would coin the term of foley
adieu in 1877 along with another doctor by the name of Charles Lasseguet. I did the hand.
It's an Italian thing. It's not even a French thing. I know. Because of this dual naming
situation, the disorder is also commonly referred to as Lasseguet-Faleray syndrome. Why do I
do the hand? I'm doing the hand when I say Lasseguet because we were talking about it
and it's spelled like L-A-S-G-A. You don't want to say Lasseguet. Lasseguet. It sounds
like something as far as- Lasseguet. So this disorder, foley adieu, is not in the current
fifth edition of the DSM due to the fact that the APA considers the criterion to be insufficient
or inadequate. Oh, okay. I was wondering if it was going to be one of those cultural
anomaly ones, like in the back with the other disorders? Oh, I see. No, because I don't
think it was ever like- I mean, it might be. I don't want to say no because I didn't look.
Like Kung Fu Yixi-sa. Kung Fu-jizya. Yeah, it's Kung Fu Yixi-sa. But it is like a subcategory
of different disorders. I'll explain that in a second. Specifically, the DSM-5 does
not consider foley adieu to be a separate disorder and therefore it should be diagnosed
as delusional disorder or in the quote, other specified schizophrenia spectrum and other
psychotic disorder categories. So one of the two, depending on their symptoms. Although
it's not a specified disorder, there are some signs and symptoms that are paired with
the syndrome. It is most commonly diagnosed when the two or more individuals of concern
live in close proximity, may be socially or physically isolated and have little interaction
with other people. The DSM-5 states that a person cannot be diagnosed delusional if the
belief in question is one quote, ordinarily accepted by other members of this person's
culture or subculture. So that makes sense. Yeah, because then they could literally classify
you as delusional for believing in God, which a lot of people do. So, you know, it's not-
it's one of those things. You all are all crazy. It's not very clear at what point
a belief is considered to be delusional due to all of the varying factors of beliefs.
When a large number of people may come to believe obviously false things based purely
on a rumor, these beliefs are not considered to be delusional and are instead labeled as
mass hysteria. Interesting, right? My nail just came off. I like ripped my nail while
I was talking off my finger. My fake nail, not my real nail. I'm not like bleeding out.
I'm just taking your face off. As with most psychological disorders, the symptoms can vary
in seriousness and specifics, but usually the quote non-dominant person's symptoms
mimic the quote inducer. In this case, the inducer is being the person who presented
symptoms first. Okay. And then the non-dominant person is the one that would have the symptoms
passed along to them. It's like independent, dependent variables, right? Exactly. Prior
to interventions, the inducer usually does not know that they are affecting anybody or
causing harm, but instead they believe that they are helping the person to become aware
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club today. There are two subclassifications of this syndrome that describe how the delusion
comes to be known by the affected people. The first one is called Fale Impossi. This
is where the dominant person or the inducer initially forms a delusional belief during
a psychotic episode and passes it on to another person or the acceptor with the assumption
that the secondary person might not have become aware if left to their own devices.
So they believe that they're educating this person?
Yes, exactly. If the persons are admitted to psychiatric care separately, the delusions
in the first person will most likely resolve without the need for medication. So that's
the first classification. The secondary classification is called Fale Simultane, in which two people
considered to independently experience psychosis influence the content of others delusions so
they become similar.
Like dough and tea?
Yes, so they're both experiencing their own delusions and they're influencing each other.
It's not what one caused the other's delusions.
Oh, I see.
When it comes to Fale Adu, there are multiple types of delusions that one can experience
and pass on to another. Delusions are defined as fixed beliefs that do not change even when
a person is presented with conflicting evidence. These types of delusions include Bizarre,
which include those that are clearly implausible and not understood by peers within the same
culture, even those with psychological disorders. One person's psychological delusion and another
person- two different people could have them and they would still think the others is Bizarre.
Oh, okay.
Or like not believable.
Yeah, I see that.
For example, if someone thought their brain had been removed and taken for science experiments,
it would be impossible for them to be alive, but they would still believe the delusion,
so Bizarre.
The second type of delusion is non-Bizarre. These are common among those with personality
disorders and are usually understood by peers in the same culture. For example, if someone
in the FBI was following you in an unmarked car, that could happen, not very likely, but
it's believable.
The two other are mood congruent and mood neutral. So mood congruent delusions correspond
to a person's emotions during a time of mania or depression. For example, thinking- someone
thinking that they got like a bigger paycheck than they actually received. Delusion.
Mood-
Well, it's-
You're delusional. You only worked two days this week.
Exactly.
Mood neutral delusions are unaffected by one's mood and can be Bizarre or non-Bizarre. So
this would be like if someone thought their body got switched with someone else's and
their belief would be consistent regardless of the emotion that they're feeling at the
time.
Shared delusional disorder can negatively affect the psychological and social well-being
of a person. This disorder can cause a lot of unresolved stress, leading to an increased
risk of cardiovascular disease, obesity, diabetes, and others, and these actually increase with
the severity of the disease. So if this disorder goes left untreated, it can be really detrimental.
Among the physical complications that can arise with this disorder, people with shared
delusional disorder can experience social isolation as well, which is, of course, detrimental
to one's psychological health. This is especially dangerous when people with this disorder,
as it can cause the delusions to remain bad or get worse with time, because no one's
there to tell them that their beliefs are incorrect.
Yeah.
People with delusional disorder have a significantly high risk of also developing comorbidities
such as anxiety and depression. This may be because of a genetic pattern that is shared
by remarkably 55% of all shared delusional disorder patients.
Wow.
That's a lot.
That's so interesting, right? So it seems like the genetic pattern is kind of the, I
don't want to say problem, but the precursor.
No, it's the precursor, yeah.
Exactly, yeah. The cause of shared delusional disorder is unknown, but the two main contributors
seem to be stress and social isolation. People who are socially isolated together tend to
become more dependent on those who they are with, leading to influence on others around
them. Additionally, people with shared delusional disorder do not necessarily have others around
them to remind them that their delusions are impossible or unlikely, causing the perfect
storm for relapse, unfortunately.
What is the, and you might have it in there later, but what is, what's the correlation
between like a parent and a child relationship? Like, because if you're just fed that, you
believe that, right? I mean, as a, as a child.
Unless you're named Kyle.
Hey, Kyle.
It's as if you're like a parent would tell a child, this guy is green, this guy is green,
this guy is green, especially when they're isolated together, right?
That's, well, that's not necessarily something that I found in the research. I didn't really
find a lot of parent influence on children. It's usually when like an adult is trying
to influence another adult.
Right. So I'm not sure because I really didn't come up with my research.
Right.
But that'd be interesting to look up.
So while there is no exact cause of this disorder, the contributing factors seem to be, again,
an isolation. Lastly, diagnosis of this syndrome is very hard to figure. Usually a person who
is experiencing symptoms does not seek out treatment with the fear of being judged or
not believed, or they don't even realize that they need treatment because they're isolated
from others that are not experiencing the disorder.
Right. Like a schizophrenia spectrum disorder.
Exactly. Shared delusional disorder is diagnosed using the DSM-5 delusional category. And according
to this, the patient must meet three criterion.
Number one, they must have a delusion that develops in the context of a close relationship
with an individual and an already established delusion.
Number two, the delusion must be very similar or even identical to the one already established,
the one that the primary case has.
And number three, the delusion cannot be better explained by any other psychological disorder,
mood disorder with psychological features, a direct result of psychological effect of
substance abuse or any general medical condition.
This was super interesting and you're going to be like, what? Because I was like, what?
Follyadu is most commonly found in women with slightly above average IQs who are isolated
from their family and who are in relationships with a dominant person that has delusions.
What does that sound like? Perhaps a cult?
Yeah.
All of the cults?
Charlie Manson followers, Doe's follower, Heaven's Gate.
Yeah, Doe and Tee. Yeah.
It's these women that have, exactly, they have an above average IQ, which means they are
very bright, of course.
But again, we talked about this in the episode that we did about Marshall Applegate. Is there
Applewhite?
Applewhite, yeah.
Applegate.
Well, I mean, Applegate. Is that these people are told that they're making the choices
for themselves and they feel like they have their control when they really don't. They're
being fed these delusions and then being told, but it's your choice. You can do this, you
can do that, or whatever.
And I'm not trying to speak for everybody that considers himself to be highly intelligent,
but there is a sense of egocentricism there. And so it's like, oh, I am in control, I am
in power, and I deserve these really great things. And it makes, and somebody's telling
me everything I want to hear. So that's interesting.
But also with the people that are experiencing delusional disorder or any kind of psychosis,
especially because if they are more intelligent on the IQ level, they're going to believe
what they think because they're very bright.
Why wouldn't people believe me? I am very smart.
Yeah, and I can speak well for myself and all this other stuff.
Exactly. And honestly, that's one of the most unpredictable things in my opinion because
it's very, like people like that don't think that they can be manipulated. So it's really
like a brainwashing kind of thing, especially when it comes to the cold.
Especially when you're isolated with that individual as well, or a group of like-minded
individuals.
Exactly. So the majority of secondary cases, this is people who have developed the shared
delusion, have also met the criteria for dependent personality disorder.
Ooh, I can see that.
Which makes sense. Yeah.
Because you're depending on this person, you don't want to leave, so you're going to
believe everything they say in order to save face and not argue.
Right. And then however many people left and then came back, you know, because they couldn't
find anything else like it.
Exactly.
You know, they're kind of dependent on the group.
Yeah, absolutely.
Additionally, 55% of secondary cases had a relative with a psychological disorder that
included delusions.
Hmm.
Interesting.
Very interesting.
I learned a lot when I was doing this research, and this is definitely, I knew somewhat about
Follyadu, but I didn't know this much.
And that's really makes a lot of sense, especially with the dependent personality disorder.
After a person has been diagnosed, they are usually separated from the inducer to see
if the delusion goes away or lessens over time.
If this does not stop the delusions, the person has been either referred to medication or
to therapy.
Drug drugs are among the medications that would be prescribed for someone diagnosed with
this disorder.
And for someone that is referred to for therapy, it would be personal or even family therapy
that would work to help lessen the symptoms.
And lastly, all I just want to say is that there's many cases of this syndrome happening.
They're listed online.
I didn't want to list them out here because I want it to be specific to the Trump family.
Yeah.
But you can look it up online.
There's a bunch of different situations about this happening.
The Trump family is one of the most infamous cases of it, and I didn't, again, go into
detail with this, with my research, because I want it to be a surprise.
But for the finale, go to Lady You're Scared Us and listen to their episode because then
you'll get the deep dive into exactly what happens when this does occur in a family setting.
And you were talking about the parent and child relationship.
That's exactly what's happening in the Trump family.
Yeah.
I'm excited to hear what they're going to tackle because that's definitely interesting.
I would just think that parent to parent, maybe, like you said, two people can come
together and have this psychosis or episode together and the delusion grows.
But I'm really interested to see what they tackle as far as the manipulation of the
kids potentially.
Yeah.
Again, I know nothing about it.
Trump family.
Yeah.
Trump, TRO.
Oh, and Trump family.
We're not talking about anybody.
We're not talking about no cheetos.
They're fucking...
It's probably happening there too, y'all.
Let's be honest.
Let's be real.
No, but anyway, yeah, that was my mental breakdown.
And I hope that it gave you guys a little bit more clarity if y'all are listening to
us after Lady You're Scared Us about what the disorder really means as far as prevalence
and sudden symptoms and all that good stuff.
And a lot of people don't really think that this is a true syndrome.
They just think it's kind of BS and they think that it doesn't really happen.
People just use it kind of like as an excuse.
Yeah.
But it does make sense with the delusional disorder because you wouldn't even know that
you were being manipulated if you had that disorder because it unfortunately skews your
mental health and your psyche.
I found the dependent personality disorder kind of comorbidity.
That's kind of interesting for sure.
It makes sense.
It really does.
Again, you don't want to...
You want to stay face with this person.
You don't want to rock the boat.
So you're just going to go along with what they say, even if what they say is bizarre.
Yeah, for sure.
But yeah, thank you guys for joining us for another mental breaky.
Yeah.
And go ahead and check out diagnosinga killer.com.
Yes.
Check out our merch.
If you have any suggestions, please let us know.
Go listen to Lady of Scare in us if you haven't already listened to their episode so you
can get the remainder of the Trump family story.
Yes.
And I look forward to listening to it myself.
For sure.
Make sure you check out your Patreon tiers.
Make sure you are all set and ready to go with our tier two and tier three.
That way you guys get the newest, freshest, most exclusiviest episode on our Patreon coming
out on the 29th.
Yeah, absolutely.
And just lastly, I just want to say thank you to Hillary, Taylor and Morgan for doing
this collab with us.
You guys have been so awesome so far, especially on social media.
I've been seeing my, our logo like everywhere.
I know.
Yeah.
Thank you guys for continuing to boost the collab.
And I hope you guys had as much fun as we did doing this collab with you guys.
And we look forward to doing maybe something else in the future.
And look forward to an upcoming DAK live.
That's going to be happening pretty soon.
We're going to record that in a couple of days and I'm really excited.
So excited.
If you have any guesses, we're going to give you one more hint.
This guy is from South Texas, more south than us.
I'll give you another hint.
See if that, we already said he's from a different city, but it's south.
It's still in Texas though.
It is.
All right.
We will talk to you guys later.
Yeah.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
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