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Hello.

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That was so off-key.

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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I was gonna say welcome back to another Diagnosing a Killer.

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I guess it makes sense.

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My name is Kenna.

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I'm Koelle.

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And I'm real funny right now because we just finished recording another episode.

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So I'm already like all fucking ready to go.

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Just hyped.

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Ugh.

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I'm so excited for you to hear this episode and know who I'm doing and get it all out there.

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You're excited.

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It's a good one.

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Yeah.

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It's, I mean it's a horrible one.

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But it's a good one.

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Before we get into that quickly just want to get some info out there.

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You can follow us on Instagram or anywhere on social media if you're not already following us at Diagnosing a Killer.

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Our Twitter is at Killer Diagnosis.

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We have Patreon, email, all that good stuff set up.

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We do have our Patreon tiers as you guys have been hearing us talk about in the last couple episodes.

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The $20 tier is the one that you will receive ad free episodes on if you become a member of.

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So just to let everyone know about that again, just pepper that in there.

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Just peppering that in.

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And yeah, other than that, do you have anything else before we start?

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Nope.

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Once again, once the website is up and running, we will definitely let you all know.

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We are looking to get approved by Redbubble for our Diagnosing a Killer classic design.

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So once that goes through, we will put that on the website.

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On that website as well, you should be able to click a link that will take you to purchase tickets for the True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival in Austin in August,

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where you can see us at our booth, purchase some merchie, and you'll get a 15% off discount with that coupon code on that website whenever it launches.

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You will know.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And anytime between now and then when the website does launch, you can actually use that code now.

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It is D-A-K-P-O-D for 15% off of those tickets.

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And I sound like I am hosting a radio show.

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That's true.

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Content warning, this episode contains depictions of drug and alcohol abuse, child abuse, suicide, child trafficking, and the victimization of mentally ill and elderly individuals.

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If these are sensitive subjects for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember, you are not alone and we love you.

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And we will see you next time.

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Love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Okay, we are going to get into this case because I cannot hold it in any longer.

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I think I researched this like two weeks ago.

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I've been wanting to tell you ever since.

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So, no.

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I'm just a strong start.

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I'm sure y'all didn't hear that, but one of our cats just meowed really loud at the door.

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But we heard it.

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This has been a very well-known case in the last couple of months or maybe like year because it was featured on an episode of Worst Roommate Ever.

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Today, we are going to be talking about Dorothea Helen Puente, a.k.a.

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Time to nickname the Death House Landlady.

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The Death House Landlady?

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Yeah, the Death House Landlady.

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Do you not know this story?

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No.

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Oh my God, you're in for a horrible treat.

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Okay.

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If that can even be considered a treat.

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I thought it was going to be the guy, the guy that was like on that two-parter one because I saw that episode.

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I'm sure I saw it.

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I just don't remember.

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Oh, and he would like move with like other people's animals because he would like keep their animals because he would get them kicked out or whatever.

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Oh my God, I don't remember that one.

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Maybe I saw it, but I don't remember.

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And he would like go around looking for roommates to live with, squat with, and essentially was protected by Squatters rights.

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Oh, I think I might have heard that one.

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We'll have to do that one.

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That one's creepy.

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Yeah, no, this has been a really talked about case lately, especially because of that did come out lately.

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And I mean, it probably came out like within the last year or two, but there's been a lot of talk about it since like 2021, especially like on the articles I found and stuff like they're really recent.

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Interesting.

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Well, I'm excited.

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We're going to get into this.

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Okay.

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Dorothea Helen Gray was born on January 9th, 1929 in Redlands, California to Trudy Mae Yates and Jesse James Gray.

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Jesse James.

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I read that she was the sixth of seven children, but I could only find the four children's names online.

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Okay.

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So I'll just put those in there.

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In no specific order, there is James, J A M E glow gray born in 1918.

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Jesse Wilma Gray born in 1920.

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Sylvia Geraldine Gray in 1921 and Jesse Everett Gray in 1923.

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Okay, cute name.

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So it's four of her siblings.

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Yes.

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Some sources stated that her father worked as a cotton picker and other sources stated that both of her parents picked cotton for money growing up while they were growing up.

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Although they had many children to provide for, unfortunately, the money that Trudy and Jesse would make while working was not used to support the children.

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And the children were often left to find food for themselves growing up.

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The money the parents were making, however, went to extreme amounts of alcohol for the both of them.

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Oh my God.

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They were noted as being intoxicated most all of the time.

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Oh, that's awful.

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The parents were also extremely abusive to all of the children.

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And it was actually noted that Jesse, the father, would frequently threaten to commit suicide in front of them and even sometimes would hold a gun to his own head to heighten the threat.

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What?

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Like literally saying, I'm going to kill myself with this gun right here in front of you.

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In front of the kids?

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Yes.

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Who?

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Oh, that was Susan Smith. Yeah, I forgot about that.

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Yeah, and that's why when you did Susan Smith, I said that the person that I was researching at the time was very similar childhood growing up because didn't her dad do something like that?

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Yeah, her dad had said multiple times that he would kill himself and his wife in front of the children.

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Say it in front of the children.

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That is in front of the children, but that's abuse.

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Oh, I mean, at its height.

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The children are very young at this point. They probably can't even comprehend the weight of what that means.

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Right.

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Yeah, they just know that it's scary and there's a lot of tension and screaming.

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Yes, exactly. That's emotional, mental abuse. That is just awful.

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So awful.

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Dorothea and the other children were forced to fend for themselves for many years without any help from their parents.

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And in 1937, when Dorothea was just eight years old, her father, Jesse, would ultimately die of tuberculosis.

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Oh, wow.

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Okay.

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Anyway, I'm not really that really else to say about it.

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So Trudy would actually lose custody of the children next year.

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It wasn't really explained why, but either the family got a lot of attention because of the father's death or there was no income that she really couldn't afford to take care of them.

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Yeah, I mean, well, not only in the alcoholism, but the fact that, yeah, like you said, she probably can't feed them.

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Yeah, definitely.

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So the same year that she would lose custody of the children in 1938, Trudy would actually ultimately die in a motorcycle accident.

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Then the same year, just days after Christmas.

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What?

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Yeah, so this...

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Both parents within however many years.

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A year and a half.

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Oh my gosh.

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With both parents being gone, the children were all sent to an orphanage.

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During the time that Dorothea was in the orphanage, unfortunately, she was reportedly sexually abused by the elders in the facility.

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It was stated in some sources that she was eventually picked up by relatives and taken to Fresno, California to live with them until she was 16.

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She ends up in Olympia, Washington after this, where she found herself living in a motel and actually engaging in sex work to make a living.

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And she's 16?

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At 16.

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During this time, Dorothea was noted as telling people that she would interact with, that she was actually 30 and not 16 as she was.

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That's a leap.

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I don't know, she's had a rough life.

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People believed her.

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Wow.

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And it's the fucking 40s.

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Yeah, show me some ID.

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Yeah.

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It's also known that around this time, Dorothea began forging checks in order to steal things such as food, clothing, etc.

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And she would get caught while doing so.

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It is said that she was sentenced to one year jail time for this offense, but she would only spend six months before being let out on good behavior.

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I mean, she's a fucking child.

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And she's a child, yeah.

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After being released, Dorothea would meet 22 year old World War II veteran Fred McFall and the two began dating.

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The two quickly became married in-

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Oh no!

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We always wait for it.

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So they would get married in 1946 when Dorothea was only 17 and he was 22.

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However, she listed on the marriage certificate that she was 30 years old and she actually put her name on the marriage certificate as Sheriol A. Riscoll.

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So it's a completely different name.

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Completely different name.

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Well, she was already used to forging checks at this point, so maybe that's something that she was going with.

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Yeah.

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At the time, an alias.

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Her husband, Fred, was later noted as saying about this quote,

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she could pass for anyone she wanted to be by the way she acted. Riscoll, that was the name she made up, I think. I don't know where she'd come up with this shit out of a clear blue sky.

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So he was like, she was bullshit.

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This was later on.

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He married her.

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Okay.

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Although Fred said these things about Dorothea later on, the two actually enjoyed their marriage at the beginning, even welcoming two daughters between 1946 and 1948.

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Having children did not seem to be the highlight of their marriage, however, and they would end up putting one of their daughters up for adoption and would send the other one to live with relatives in Sacramento.

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So just the full on cycle repeats itself.

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It was seemingly that Dorothea didn't want children.

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And I understand it's the 1940s and not everybody's using contraceptives and all that sort of stuff, but I mean, come on.

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Around this time as well, Dorothea had said that she had also suffered a miscarriage and this seemingly sparked a fury inside of her.

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That's interesting because she had already had to, after she gave the kiddos away?

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It wasn't very clear.

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Oh, I see. But it's just compounded, right?

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Yes.

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Not only that, but you see it sometimes in Susan Smith, I think you've seen it in Andrea Yates, that postpartum depression is a very real thing.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Even when you go through a miscarriage, you go through that hormonal change again.

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And so it might just be that because he said she had the kiddos what, 46, 47 or 47, 48?

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Two years in between.

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Right. And then also suffering a miscarriage within that time.

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Yeah, so a lot.

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That is a lot of hormones going up and down like that.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Continuing to forge checks to get by, Dorothea was arrested in 1948 in Riverside and was sent to jail again for this crime.

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Due to this arrest, Fred would file for divorce from Dorothea.

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Dorothea would plead guilty to two counts of forgery and she was sentenced to four years in jail.

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After only four months, she would be released from jail and placed on probation that would last an additional three years.

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Okay, I was going to say that's being released after four months when it's like clearly a secondary offense of the same crime.

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So that's a little goofy, but three years probation that makes a little bit more sense.

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So it's not just like scot-free, essentially.

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Yeah.

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Well, one of the terms of her probation was that she was not allowed to leave Riverside as we see commonly.

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Well, six months into her probation, she just decided to leave anyway.

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So I'm just going to go. See ya. Smell ya later.

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Dorothea would flee the area leaving Riverside for good.

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It says in one source that shortly after her release, she would become pregnant by a man that she did not know very well and she would give this child up for adoption.

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It's not clear whether or not this is why she left Riverside, but she would not continue a relationship with this man.

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Okay.

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Again, that was just one source. I can't confirm if that's actually true, but that's what one source said.

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But again, here we are again with that potential postpartum depression kind of a thing, right?

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Exactly.

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A few years later in 1952, Dorothea would meet a Swedish man by the name of Axel Bren Johansson in San Francisco.

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I love me a sweet.

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At this time, she had been known by a much different persona than her upbringing.

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She was now going by the name, bear with me, Teya Singawala Nayarda,

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and would refer to herself as a Muslim woman of Egyptian and Israeli descent.

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Wow.

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Completely different persona.

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Oh my gosh.

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Axel and Teya would marry the same year and actually spend the next 14 years in a very tumultuous marriage with notable violence and criminal activity around every corner.

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14 years.

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Wow. It didn't know she had it in her.

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Yeah.

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During the time of their marriage, Dorothea would frequently get in trouble with the law due to drinking or gambling illegally.

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This would of course spark debates and fights between the couple.

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Axel was also a merchant seaman, so he was gonna stop.

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They're gonna make me laugh about semen.

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It's not funny.

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He was gone for work many times throughout the year.

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He was on a boat.

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He was on a boat.

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He was a guy that worked on a boat.

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Dorothea would take advantage of the time he was gone by inviting multiple men to the house and gambling away his money.

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Oh no.

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Yeah.

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Despite all of these fights, like I said, Dorothea and Axel remained married for many years and in 1960, Dorothea would find herself in even bigger trouble with the law.

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During this time, Dorothea had owned a bookkeeping firm that seemed to be doing very well.

230
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,000
Okay.

231
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,000
However, this bookkeeping firm was actually a front for something much more sinister.

232
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,000
A brothel.

233
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,000
A brothel?

234
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,000
Yes.

235
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,000
Okay.

236
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,000
And I mean sinister.

237
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,000
That's not a bad.

238
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,000
It's a bookkeeping.

239
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,000
How do you brothel in a bookkeeping firm?

240
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,000
Yeah.

241
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,000
It was a hidden door in the back of us.

242
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,000
Well, I mean, you know, everybody's heard of massage places, right?

243
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,000
I mean, that can be a front.

244
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,000
Well, that's obvious.

245
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,000
You gotta go with bookkeeping.

246
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,000
You gotta go with bookkeeping.

247
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,000
Yeah.

248
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,000
I'm gonna open up a library, but it's gonna be a brothel.

249
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,000
It's quiet.

250
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,000
Too quiet.

251
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,000
Too quiet.

252
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,000
Actual librarians to tell you to be quiet.

253
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,000
That sucks.

254
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,000
Shh.

255
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,000
Sorry, fuck.

256
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,000
No pun intended, fuck.

257
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:40,000
In 1960, Dorothea was found out by law enforcement and was arrested in Sacramento.

258
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,000
So she was found out about owning this illegal brothel.

259
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:47,000
She was found guilty and sentenced to 90 days in jail.

260
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,000
90 days?

261
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,000
Yeah.

262
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:55,000
One source stated that after she was released, she was arrested yet again on a vagrancy charge

263
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,000
and would serve 90 days for this as well, which I didn't know you could be arrested for that.

264
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000
For vagrancy?

265
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,000
Yeah.

266
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,000
I didn't know you could be arrested for that.

267
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,000
I think in certain areas, like you can't loiter and stuff like that.

268
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,000
That makes sense.

269
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,000
That doesn't make sense.

270
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,000
That doesn't make sense.

271
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,000
That doesn't make sense, but yeah, I can see how that makes sense.

272
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,000
Yeah.

273
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:21,000
Now, despite all of this, Dorothea and Axel remained married and another year went by.

274
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,000
What is he just like comfortable?

275
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,000
I guess he's not there all the time, right?

276
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,000
He's not, yeah.

277
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:27,000
So it's probably downplaying it.

278
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:34,000
In 1961, Dorothea continued her antics of drinking, lying, criminal behavior, and at this point,

279
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,000
even multiple suicide attempts.

280
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,000
Well, I mean, sorry, but I mean, she's not taking care of herself.

281
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000
Yes, and it's tumultuous for life in general and this marriage.

282
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:52,000
Around this time, Dorothea would offer to perform a sex act on an undercover cop during a sting operation of a business

283
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000
and she would be arrested for this crime.

284
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,000
Did she get three days in jail?

285
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,000
She wouldn't serve any time for this arrest, actually.

286
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,000
Because her husband Axel would actually commit her to DeWitt State Hospital to get evaluated instead.

287
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:10,000
Okay, so clearly he's trying to be proactive a little bit.

288
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000
How well did that go?

289
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:19,000
So during the time that Dorothea was in the hospital, psychiatrists diagnosed her as a pathological liar with an unstable personality.

290
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
Again, this is the 60s, so we don't have the terminology we have now.

291
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Some sort of personality disorder would be today, probably.

292
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:35,000
Dorothea and Axel would ultimately divorce in 1966, although she would continue to use his last name for many years following their separation.

293
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:43,000
She would change her name yet again and go by Sharon Johansson and also take on a new persona as a devout Christian woman.

294
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,000
Ooh.

295
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000
Do you think this is a DID?

296
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,000
I don't think so.

297
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,000
I think she's just very manipulative.

298
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:56,000
And she thinks that changing her whole persona can help her gain whatever she wants in life.

299
00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,000
That reminds me of Elizabeth Holmes, the Theronance lady.

300
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:08,000
The way that she manipulated her body to speak and then she speaks with this really deep voice and then wears a turtleneck at all.

301
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000
And then she's this different person.

302
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,000
And it's terrifying.

303
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,000
She just had a second child?

304
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,000
No, she didn't.

305
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000
Yeah, she did. Pretty sure.

306
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,000
Yeah, it's definitely interesting how people can do that.

307
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,000
Yeah.

308
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,000
With the intent to manipulate.

309
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,000
Yes.

310
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000
Which is interesting.

311
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,000
After this name change and seemingly different morals, Dorothea would establish her reputation as a caregiver.

312
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,000
Okay, I hate this.

313
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:34,000
Oh yeah.

314
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:42,000
She would provide young women with a sanctuary from poverty and abuse without charge and would become known as a mother figure in the community.

315
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,000
Wow. A total 180.

316
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:52,000
Two years later in 1968, Dorothea would meet and marry 21 year old Roberto Jose Puente.

317
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,000
He was 21, she was how old?

318
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,000
She would have been 39 or 40 at this point.

319
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,000
Wow. Total 180.

320
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:07,000
She would take his name and change hers to Dorothea Helen Puente as we know her now.

321
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:20,000
While married, Dorothea would take over a three-story, 16 bedroom care home located at 2100 F Street in Sacramento where she would provide care and comfort to the homeless community in the area.

322
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,000
Wow.

323
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,000
This is a... where's the poop?

324
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,000
Oh yeah, just wait.

325
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,000
This marriage would last a total of 16 months and the couple would separate.

326
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,000
Oh wow.

327
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,000
Dorothea citing domestic abuse as the reason.

328
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:41,000
The divorce would not be finalized until 1973 however as Roberto would actually flee to Mexico after being served with the divorce papers.

329
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,000
It's like I'm fucking out of here.

330
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:53,000
Even after the divorce was finalized, the two would continue to have a tumultuous relationship and Dorothea would eventually file a restraining order against him in 1975.

331
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,000
What?

332
00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:01,000
So she files for divorce. He ignores the divorce papers but I'm assuming they're still having sex every once in a while and that's why they're hanging out?

333
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,000
Yeah, maybe.

334
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,000
Oh man.

335
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:09,000
Although their marriage was the shortest of her life, Dorothea would continue to use the surname Puente for more than 20 years.

336
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,000
So this was her new persona.

337
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,000
Following the divorce, Dorothea put all of her focus into the boarding house that she had previously taken over.

338
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
Now in her 40s, Dorothea would completely change her appearance.

339
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,000
She had always been known for her really well thought out outfits and over the top makeup and accessories.

340
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Now she was wearing modest, baggy clothing and stopped dying and styling her hair altogether.

341
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,000
Hmm.

342
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:40,000
It is known at this point that she was changing her look in fact in order to appear much older than she actually was.

343
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,000
What?

344
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,000
To try to gain sympathy from others.

345
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:56,000
So now it's like, okay, well I'm at this point in my life where I'm no longer getting the attention I require so I must maintain this older appearance to, like, get...

346
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,000
You said get attention, I guess.

347
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,000
The bull is seemingly harmless, maybe?

348
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,000
Yeah, okay.

349
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:09,000
She told new acquaintances that she was a devouted Christian that loved serving her community and she just had to open up this lovely home in order to help the homeless community.

350
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:10,000
Wow, she's so nice.

351
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:18,000
The type of patron she would frequently house were specifically people that were struggling with mental illness and or alcohol and drug abuse.

352
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,000
Okay.

353
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:30,000
She would even host AA meetings and local social workers started even referring people to her home as they saw her as a reliable and good placement.

354
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
I hate all of this right now.

355
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,000
She's just a little angel baby.

356
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,000
She's just a little angel babe.

357
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,000
She couldn't harm anybody even if she wanted to.

358
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:46,000
On top of her help with AA meetings, she would also assist her guests in applying for social security benefits.

359
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000
She's so helpful.

360
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Wow, how helpful.

361
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
She also get life insurance policies too.

362
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,000
She help out with those?

363
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,000
Maybe.

364
00:20:55,000 --> 00:21:03,000
She would also establish herself as a respected member in Sacramento's Hispanic community funding charities, scholarships and radio programs.

365
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000
I thought she wasn't Hispanic though.

366
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,000
I thought she was.

367
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,000
Now she is.

368
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,000
It's Wednesday.

369
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,000
Now she is.

370
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:20,000
In 1976, Dorothea began dating one of her guests by the name of Pedro Montalvo and the two would marry very quickly after meeting.

371
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,000
Oh my gosh.

372
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000
Stop getting married.

373
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:29,000
Pedro was known as being an abusive alcoholic and he would leave Dorothea very shortly after being married just about like a week into their marriage.

374
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,000
What?

375
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,000
Yeah.

376
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:37,000
Dorothea was now single yet again and in need of money as she was being so generous to her community.

377
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000
Yeah, she's just giving everything that she has is given to the community.

378
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,000
Yep.

379
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:48,000
It was at this point that she began frequenting local bars in search of older men who were receiving government benefits.

380
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,000
She would become friendly with these men and then forge their signatures in order to steal their money.

381
00:21:53,000 --> 00:22:01,000
She went on doing this for about two years and she would eventually be caught and charged with 34 counts of treasury fraud.

382
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,000
She would spend no jail time.

383
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,000
She was sentenced to five years probation for these crimes.

384
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,000
Was fined $4,000 and was again forced to undergo a psychiatric evaluation.

385
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:26,000
Why do you always handle these cases where people are like not going to jail when they need to be or like being released early or just driving the point home without this podcast?

386
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,000
That's why.

387
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,000
Because if they fucking stayed in jail none of this would have happened.

388
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Or been evaluated or...

389
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:38,000
Well, I'm not sure if you heard but I had just said they forced her to undergo a psychiatric evaluation again at this point.

390
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,000
Okay, yeah.

391
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Because it's been how many years since Axl had her take one?

392
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:43,000
Oh.

393
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,000
30 years?

394
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,000
No, not that long.

395
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,000
Because they were together for 14.

396
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,000
Maybe like five or six, I don't know.

397
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,000
It's been a while.

398
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,000
Five or six years.

399
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,000
You're probably right.

400
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000
Five or six, yeah.

401
00:22:53,000 --> 00:23:00,000
During this evaluation, the psychiatrist would diagnose Dorothea with schizophrenia but wouldn't require any treatment moving forward.

402
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,000
Of course not.

403
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000
Diagnosis schizophrenia with no treatment?

404
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
No treatment plan.

405
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,000
Oh yeah, you got a broken leg there.

406
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,000
Take care.

407
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,000
Dorothea.

408
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:19,000
Well, Dorothea was out on probation, she would continue to commit the same type of fraud as she had actually lost her building when she was arrested previously.

409
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,000
Okay.

410
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,000
The 16 room house?

411
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,000
Yes.

412
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,000
The one that she was helping.

413
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,000
Helping the community.

414
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000
Helping the community.

415
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:37,000
In 1981, Dorothea was able to rent a new apartment at 1426 F Street in downtown Sacramento and began allowing people to live with her again as well.

416
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
That's interesting because that's the same street.

417
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
Yes, it is the same street.

418
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:49,000
So she must know that this area is, you know, ripe with elderly fruit or something.

419
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,000
Yeah.

420
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:58,000
In April of 1982, 53 year old Ruth Monroe would begin living with Dorothea in her new apartment.

421
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Although she was reverting back to her old ways, Dorothea would explain that these were not borders, but friends and relatives of hers that were staying with her.

422
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,000
Okay.

423
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:15,000
Shortly after moving in with Dorothea, Ruth Monroe would die from an overdose of codeine and acetaminophen.

424
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,000
Wow.

425
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,000
And how old was she?

426
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,000
She was 53.

427
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,000
Okay.

428
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:28,000
But Ruth was reportedly bedridden and notably depressed at the time of her death as her husband was terminally ill.

429
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:35,000
So when police arrived at the scene and were told by Dorothea that it may have been an overdose, they believed her and her death was ruled a suicide.

430
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,000
That's what I was going to ask.

431
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,000
Yeah, they thought it was a suicide.

432
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,000
Wow.

433
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,000
So her husband was terminally ill.

434
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000
She was very notably depressed.

435
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,000
She was ill as well, physically ill.

436
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:51,000
And Dorothea essentially convinced the police that Ruth caused her own death by this overdose and it was no foul play.

437
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,000
Okay.

438
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000
Hmm.

439
00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Less than a month later, police were back at the apartment after 74-year-old Malcolm McKenzie accused Dorothea of drugging him and then robbing him.

440
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:14,000
Although she did not get arrested for drugging him, she was arrested for robbing him and was subsequently convicted of three charges of theft on August 18, 1982 and would serve five years in jail for this crime.

441
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Okay.

442
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,000
At least it's getting a little lengthy.

443
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Okay.

444
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,000
He loves her.

445
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,000
The two quickly blossomed their relationship, even quickly making wedding plans.

446
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000
So she's like what, like 53?

447
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,000
He's like 77?

448
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,000
Yeah, me too.

449
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,000
Yeah, me too.

450
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Yeah, exactly.

451
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:09,000
Everson would soon move in with Dorothea at the apartment and they would open up a joint bank account that was used to pay the $600 rent at the apartment she had bought for herself.

452
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Okay.

453
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000
This is again where she was living in before prison.

454
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,000
She was able somehow to keep this property while in prison.

455
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
Maybe he was paying for it while she was there.

456
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,000
Yeah.

457
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000
And he just continued to pay for it when she got out.

458
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,000
She's at the same apartment and how many rooms was the apartment?

459
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:24,000
I don't know.

460
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,000
It didn't say.

461
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,000
Okay.

462
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000
Because I mean she clearly had people living with her.

463
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,000
So that's why I was wondering if it's like a few rooms.

464
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,000
Yeah.

465
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:38,000
Well, I think it was like, it's definitely not an apartment suitable for housing multiple people, which is why she had to lie and say they were like friends and relatives and they weren't actually living there.

466
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,000
Right.

467
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:49,000
During the same year that he would move in, Everson would seemingly move out of the apartment in 1985 when the tenants just stopped seeing him around the home.

468
00:26:49,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Can I very quickly raised her eyebrows like she's like later that year in November of 1985, Dorothea hired a handyman named Ismael Flores to install some wood paneling in her home.

469
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:13,000
When the paneling was complete, Dorothea then asked Ismael to build her a box that was six feet by three feet by two feet.

470
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,000
And she explained that she would be using this box to store quote books and other items.

471
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,000
Sure.

472
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Also, can you make it look like a coffin?

473
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,000
Thanks.

474
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Literally.

475
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:31,000
After he completed the job, Dorothea paid Ismael an $800 bonus and also gifted him with a red 1980 for pickup truck.

476
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:32,000
No.

477
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Oh my God.

478
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,000
Full body heaves.

479
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:47,000
When asked how she got this truck, Dorothea told Ismael that the truck belonged to her boyfriend who gave it to her because he moved to LA and he no longer needed it.

480
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:48,000
Sure.

481
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:58,000
It is unclear how much time went by, but shortly after this exchange, Dorothea enlisted the help of Ismael yet again, this time in moving this box that she had filled.

482
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,000
But just, you know, like books and knickknacks and stuff.

483
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:09,000
The box was now filled, sealed, and ready for transport according to Dorothea, and Ismael agreed to help her move it to a storage facility.

484
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,000
In the truck?

485
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,000
That would be hilarious.

486
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,000
I mean, essentially, yeah. Probably.

487
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:25,000
On the way to the storage facility, Dorothea had a change of heart and actually told Ismael to just stop while they were on the Garden Highway in Sutter County and just go ahead and dump the box into the bank of the Sacramento River.

488
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:26,000
Just go ahead and put it over there.

489
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:34,000
I forgot to tell you these books, I no longer need these books, so I'm such a good person that I'm going to put them on the side of the road.

490
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,000
I'm going to dump them.

491
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Yeah, I'm going to dump them, and hopefully someone in need will find these books and be able to utilize them.

492
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:50,000
Now, this place was not just a regular river, but it was actually an unofficial household dumping site, but still illegal for them to dump in that place regardless.

493
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Yeah, of course.

494
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000
It's also illegal to, I don't know, dump up bodies somewhere.

495
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
So, I don't know, there's a body there yet.

496
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:03,000
Sure. Yeah, I'm sorry, bugs. Yeah, bugs and other stuff. And others, just, you know, other things.

497
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:09,000
Ismael became confused and asked Dorothea why she wanted him to dump the box there. I thought they were going to the storage unit.

498
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,000
Right.

499
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:15,000
She responded by saying the contents of the box were just junk, so it didn't matter.

500
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,000
Ismael agreed, and he dumped the box into the river.

501
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,000
So that was in the beginning of November.

502
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:29,000
On New Year's Day, 1986, a fisherman spotted the box about three feet from the riverbank and noted that it was suspicious looking since it was in the shape of a coffin.

503
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,000
Just like a purpose.

504
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:39,000
How do you not smell that? Like, even when you're transporting it? I don't believe people when they're like, oh, I just, I was just helping somebody moving some boxes.

505
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
I had no idea what the contents were.

506
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Yeah, exactly.

507
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,000
No, you know.

508
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,000
You know.

509
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,000
I mean, how would you not know?

510
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,000
I don't know.

511
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,000
I think that he just didn't want to ask questions. Maybe he was scared. He's like, shit, I'm next.

512
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000
That is, you know.

513
00:29:53,000 --> 00:30:04,000
You're essentially lending the idea that at some point in your life, you knew what it was like to just carry a box of random shit that you didn't know the contents of.

514
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,000
Do you know what I'm saying?

515
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,000
No.

516
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,000
Have you ever moved a body in a box before?

517
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,000
No.

518
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Do you think that you would know when you would move a body in a box?

519
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,000
Probably so.

520
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
That's all I'm saying.

521
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,000
It's not something that one is used to is what I'm saying.

522
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:20,000
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true.

523
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,000
I mean, I just felt Trish move recently.

524
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
You know.

525
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,000
No bodies.

526
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,000
No bodies.

527
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:31,000
But I'm guarantee if I had picked up a box that would have felt a little weird or lumpy, probably would have given it a peek.

528
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,000
Yeah, that's true.

529
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,000
But you know what?

530
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,000
You never know what people are thinking.

531
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Again, he might have been scared.

532
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,000
He might have really, really trusted her.

533
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,000
You know, she was very manipulative.

534
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:40,000
Was he?

535
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,000
She's paying him.

536
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,000
He's like, probably like, fuck, I don't, you know.

537
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,000
Was he a neurotypical person?

538
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,000
I don't believe so. I think that it wasn't, it wasn't confirmed.

539
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:54,000
I think I remember hearing that he might have been either mentally ill or on the neurodivergence spectrum.

540
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,000
Okay, I see.

541
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:01,000
So this man that sees the box contacts police, of course, who arrive on the scene with detectives.

542
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,000
Once there, law enforcement opened the box and found the badly decomposed body of an elderly man inside.

543
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,000
Hmm.

544
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,000
The body wasn't able to be identified right away and was labeled as a John Doe.

545
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,000
Interesting.

546
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:20,000
Nobody became suspicious of Dorothea as she was a sweet old lady who was taking care of the mentally ill and homeless communities.

547
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,000
Everson Gilmuth's family had been receiving letters from him during this time as well,

548
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,000
stating that he had not contacted them because he had been sick, but he was doing fine.

549
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,000
No.

550
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,000
Meanwhile, his pension checks continued to be cashed, so there was no reason to believe that he is missing at all.

551
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,000
Oh no.

552
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,000
Dorothea went on with her life as if nothing was wrong and continued to house people,

553
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,000
now charging them room and board.

554
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,000
So instead of letting them live for free, she's now charging rent.

555
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,000
Nobody interviewed Ismael about a box or any of that other stuff?

556
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Okay.

557
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,000
No one saw them go drop it?

558
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,000
No one knew where the box came from?

559
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,000
I see.

560
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,000
Is he okay?

561
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,000
It was at this point that Dorothea's number of tenants rose to more than 40,

562
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:04,000
in which again, most were either mentally ill or alcohol or drug addicts.

563
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,000
So this must have been a big apartment.

564
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,000
This isn't like a hotel.

565
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,000
How do it been?

566
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,000
How do it been, right?

567
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,000
How many people do you think you could fit in an efficiency apartment studio?

568
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,000
Not a lot.

569
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Although she was making decent money charging for rent, Dorothea wanted more,

570
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,000
and she began hanging out in bars again, looking for new people to scam.

571
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:30,000
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578
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Also during this time, she would go through all of her tenants' mail before giving it to them,

579
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,000
and any check that was sent would be cashed by her.

580
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,000
She would take a portion of the checks for quote, expenses, and then give the remaining to her tenants.

581
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,000
So she's like a prison guard.

582
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,000
Unfortunately, most of the people that were staying in the housing were not getting the treatment that they needed,

583
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,000
so they would frequently spend what little money she would give them on more drugs and alcohol.

584
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000
It's just vicious cycle.

585
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,000
And like no medication, no, probably, right?

586
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000
I mean, if there are all those...

587
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,000
I mean, there's some people that are being referred by social workers,

588
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,000
probably just people that she offered a place to stay that she met on the streets or something.

589
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,000
And clearly not getting like the mental help that they needed either.

590
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Of course not.

591
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,000
And neither is she.

592
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,000
We have to think about that.

593
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,000
There was also multiple occasions that these tenants would be picked up by police and jailed for 30 days

594
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,000
after receiving anonymous tips that they were spending their government money on drugs and alcohol.

595
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,000
Drugs and alcohol.

596
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,000
So then like she...wait.

597
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Anonymous tips.

598
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:08,000
So she essentially would be calling the cops and saying this person's spending their social security money on drugs and alcohol.

599
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,000
Go arrest them.

600
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,000
When she didn't want to deal with them anymore, I guess.

601
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Or if they ran out of money.

602
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Yeah.

603
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,000
Interesting.

604
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:21,000
Now one of her parole requirements this time was that she was to stay away from the elderly

605
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,000
and refrain from handling government checks because clearly she has a history of theft and fraud.

606
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:34,000
It is noted that although parole agents visited Dorothea's apartment at least 15 times around this time,

607
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,000
no violations of her probation were ever reported.

608
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,000
Which would mean what?

609
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,000
Abstaining from drugs and alcohol or...

610
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,000
Abstaining.

611
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:47,000
She's handling government checks because she's clearly taking it from her tenants.

612
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Right.

613
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,000
And she's supposed to stay away from elderly people in general.

614
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Because elderly people that have social security is who she was targeting.

615
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,000
But they found nothing...they didn't find anybody that matched that description.

616
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:58,000
Is that what you're telling me?

617
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,000
I don't think they wanted to do the paperwork because they didn't care about the people that were getting taken advantage of.

618
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,000
Yeah.

619
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,000
Because they came to her house 15 times.

620
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:12,000
There's no way there wasn't at least a single other person in that, you know, apartment that fit that description.

621
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
Exactly.

622
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:22,000
In fact, there was no suspicions about Dorothea or her business at all until she hired a man by the nickname of chief as her new handyman.

623
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Oh, chief. Tell us about chief.

624
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:30,000
Dorothea would claim that she, quote, adopted him and neighbors would take notice of his odd behavior around the home.

625
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,000
Hmm.

626
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,000
Seemingly because he was probably mentally ill.

627
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,000
Right.

628
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:43,000
Dorothea would have chief dig in the basement and remove soil and trash with a wheelbarrow, although the basement was covered in a concrete slab.

629
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,000
So where is this soil and trash coming from?

630
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:51,000
She would tell neighbors, oh, he's digging in the basement, but he's taking all this soil and trash out from somewhere.

631
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:58,000
Neighbors took note of the contents of the wheelbarrow when it was nearly impossible for the items to have come from the basement.

632
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:04,000
Chief would later dismantle the garage in the back and replace this ground with a concrete slab as well.

633
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,000
Hmm.

634
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,000
This is just handy work that he's doing.

635
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,000
Yeah, just, you know, just normal handy work.

636
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:15,000
Soon after this project, the neighbors would no longer see chief around the area.

637
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,000
Dorothea asked Ismael to make her a box.

638
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,000
Oh, God.

639
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:29,000
In November of 1988, Alvaro or Burt Montoya, a tenant of Dorothea's, failed to show up to a required meeting with his social worker, Judy.

640
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,000
Hmm.

641
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,000
Burt was diagnosed with schizophrenia and was considered to be developmentally disabled.

642
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,000
This is a quote from his social worker.

643
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,000
Hmm.

644
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,000
When he failed to arrive to his meeting, Judy went to Dorothea's home to confront her.

645
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:47,000
Dorothea told Judy that Burt was perfectly fine and in fact he was just in Mexico visiting his brother.

646
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,000
He's on the side of the road in a box somewhere.

647
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,000
Seriously.

648
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:58,000
What Dorothea did not know, however, was that Judy knew Burt very well and was aware that he did not have a relationship with his family.

649
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,000
So it was very doubtful that he would be with his brother.

650
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,000
Right.

651
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,000
Ooh, look at the face.

652
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,000
What do you think?

653
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:04,000
Go, Judy.

654
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,000
Let's go, Judy.

655
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,000
Come on, Judy.

656
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:14,000
Not wanting to raise suspicions, Judy then spoke secretly to another tenant that was there, John Sharp, who had stated about Dorothea, quote,

657
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,000
something is wrong. She's been digging a lot of holes.

658
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,000
Ooh, buddy.

659
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,000
Ooh.

660
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,000
Now, with reasonable concerns, Judy contacted police about the matter.

661
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:34,000
Police asked Dorothea if she knew the whereabouts of Burt to which she repeated that he was simply on vacation and she did not know what all the fuss was about.

662
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,000
I don't know what the fuss is about.

663
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:44,000
John Sharp would actually back up Dorothea on her statement to the police that Burt was indeed out of town and at this moment, police didn't consider her a suspect.

664
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,000
Oh, no.

665
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,000
Because John Sharp is like, bro, he's out of town.

666
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,000
He's out of town, yo.

667
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:58,000
The police prepared to leave the home, but as they were about to, John Sharp slipped them a piece of paper that read, quote, she's making me lie for her.

668
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,000
No.

669
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:00,000
I hate it.

670
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,000
I hate it.

671
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:02,000
I hate it.

672
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,000
I hate it.

673
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,000
I hate it.

674
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:12,000
It's not clear whether or not police left and came back with the search warrant or if they just asked Dorothea right there if they could come in.

675
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,000
But either way, police would begin a search of the property.

676
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,000
I don't think that they left and came back because of what happens next.

677
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,000
Okay.

678
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Not finding anything inside the home.

679
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:28,000
Police noticed a syrup soil in the backyard and they asked Dorothea if they could just dig around a little bit.

680
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,000
Yeah, can I just do a little poke around?

681
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:34,000
Again, I don't think they had the warrant because they had to ask permission to dig.

682
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:39,000
Dorothea agreed, shrugged, and she said, quote, dig in my yard.

683
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,000
I don't know what's out there.

684
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,000
I don't know what's out there.

685
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,000
It's my yard.

686
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,000
Also, what do you mean?

687
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,000
I don't know what's out there.

688
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,000
What if there's nothing out there?

689
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,000
Yeah, I don't know what's out there.

690
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:52,000
Dorothea was even noted as providing the officers with an additional shovel to help in their search.

691
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,000
The boldness of this bitch.

692
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,000
An officer was noted as saying about this moment, quote,

693
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:05,000
We were just digging and digging and I could see Dorothea staring out the window at us above.

694
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:13,000
He then added that they had dug up, quote, pieces of cloth, eggshells, and leather pieces that looked like beef jerky.

695
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,000
This was indeed the opposite of what police were expecting to find, and this was no beef jerky.

696
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,000
Gross.

697
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,000
Police came upon something out of a horror film.

698
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:28,000
Not one, not two, but seven bodies.

699
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,000
During their time excavating the property.

700
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,000
Just in the backyard?

701
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,000
Yes.

702
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:39,000
The first victim uncovered was 78-year-old Leona Carpenter.

703
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:45,000
She had recently been released from the hospital prior to her stay with Dorothea and was still very ill at the time of her arrival.

704
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:50,000
It was later determined that Leona died of a drug overdose, but when other tenants were interviewed,

705
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:56,000
they all recalled that Leona would not have been physically able to administer those drugs herself because she was so sick.

706
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,000
This indicated that she was given a fatal dose of medication.

707
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,000
51-year-old Bert Montoya was also found in the yard.

708
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,000
The one that was in Mexico, quote, unquote?

709
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,000
It was determined that his cause of death was very similar to Leona's, a fatal overdose.

710
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,000
64-year-old Dorothea Miller was among the victims found as well.

711
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:20,000
She was sitting on the porch of the home with her social worker when she was last seen.

712
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,000
She was found with her arms bound to her chest with duct tape.

713
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:34,000
It is also noted that Dorothea used Dorothea's veteran identification card to obtain a prescription of the drug Dallmaine,

714
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,000
the same drug that would be found in each of the victims' systems.

715
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,000
So it was her prescription that she used to poison everyone else?

716
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Yes.

717
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,000
Wow.

718
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,000
Benjamin Fink, 55, was also found in Dorothea's backyard.

719
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,000
Benjamin was known to eat in communal areas, but other than that, he pretty much kept to himself.

720
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:57,000
He had developed a number of health issues including pneumonia and mobility problems from a car accident.

721
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,000
This caused him to have to utilize a cane.

722
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:06,000
Just before he was last seen, Benjamin was disqualified as a plasma donor, which had been a way of making money.

723
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,000
Due to his health problems, Dorothea would confine Benjamin to bed rest and isolate him from the others.

724
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,000
Oh, God, that's awful.

725
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
I know.

726
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,000
It was noted one day that Benjamin was heavily intoxicated.

727
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:23,000
Dorothea told the other tenants that she, quote, was going to take Ben upstairs and make him feel better.

728
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,000
This would be the last time that anybody saw him alive.

729
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,000
God, it just breaks your heart.

730
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,000
He's like innocent, vulnerable people.

731
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:31,000
And they can't do anything about it.

732
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,000
It's just, it's awful.

733
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:38,000
And they probably don't even know that they're being manipulated or treated this way or, you know.

734
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:44,000
A few days after this incident, another tenant complained to Dorothea about a horrific odor coming from a room off of the kitchen.

735
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:49,000
This same tenant would later explain to police that this odor was the quote, smell of death.

736
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,000
Oh, my God.

737
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,000
I know.

738
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:57,000
According to the tenant, when approached about the smell, Dorothea brushed it off and said that the sewer had backed up.

739
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,000
Because those things smell the same, right?

740
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,000
Yeah, totally.

741
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:07,000
Once other tenants noted that Dorothea was no longer taking care of Ben because she had been so taking care of him.

742
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,000
Right.

743
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:14,000
But he moved back to his family's home in nearby Marysville after she told him, quote, not to ever come back on the property.

744
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Because she, quote, couldn't take his falling down drinking anymore.

745
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,000
She said that she kicked him out.

746
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,000
About it.

747
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:22,000
When she actually killed him.

748
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,000
She's talking shit about a dead person.

749
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,000
That she killed.

750
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,000
Yes.

751
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:30,000
No one really questioned Dorothea when she told them this because it was known that other tenants would up and leave without notice.

752
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,000
So it wasn't really odd that Ben seemingly left out of nowhere.

753
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:42,000
For months after Benjamin's disappearance, however, Dorothea forged his signature on his social security checks and also collected other benefits in his name,

754
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,000
totaling more than $6,000.

755
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,000
Whoa.

756
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Among the bodies discovered in the backyard was also one James Gallop.

757
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:57,000
In 1987, James was diagnosed with a brain tumor and had to undergo a very serious operation to have it removed.

758
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:05,000
Following his surgery, James was referred to live with Dorothea where he would recover and receive help from her, or so he thought.

759
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:10,000
James would become a victim of Dorotheas and his body would be discovered in the yard during the dig,

760
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,000
being able to identify by the metal sutures still in his skull from surgery.

761
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,000
Wow.

762
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,000
Yeah.

763
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,000
64-year-old Vera Faye Martin was also found during the search.

764
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:26,000
According to investigators, there was something very different about Vera's body discovery compared to the others.

765
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,000
While all the other victims are believed to have been poisoned, suffocated, or strangled,

766
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,000
Vera is the only victim that appeared to have been possibly buried alive.

767
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,000
No.

768
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,000
That's not what I thought you were going to say.

769
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,000
I thought you were going to say like, fludgeoned or shot or stabbed.

770
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,000
Wow.

771
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,000
When discovered, Vera's watch was still ticking on her wrist,

772
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:57,000
and investigators were called noticing scratch marks that circled around the site of her makeshift grave,

773
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:04,000
indicated that she may have had the wherewithal to try to get out after being buried.

774
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,000
That's horrific.

775
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:06,000
My chest hurts.

776
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,000
It's like tight.

777
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,000
I feel like I can't breathe and I think about getting buried.

778
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,000
I wonder if she thought that she passed on and then she just wasn't.

779
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:16,000
I think that's probably what happened.

780
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
Like she thought she had already overdosed.

781
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,000
She's clearly not a physician.

782
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Yeah.

783
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:26,000
Lastly, 78-year-old Betty Palmer was discovered along with the other bodies.

784
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,000
On August 19th, 1986, Betty left for a doctor's appointment and was never heard from again.

785
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,000
Betty's hands and feet were actually missing when she was discovered,

786
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:39,000
and Dorothea was later found to have her ID.

787
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,000
However, the ID that was discovered no longer had Betty's photo on it,

788
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,000
and instead had a picture of Dorothea in the place of it.

789
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,000
What? She was going to like assume her identity or something?

790
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,000
Yeah.

791
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,000
It was later revealed that Dorothea was using this ID to cash Betty's social security checks,

792
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000
taking as much as $7,000 in benefits.

793
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:03,000
I'm so sorry, but like I heard $6,000 earlier, I hear $7,000 now.

794
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:07,000
That's like no money for someone's life.

795
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,000
For someone's life.

796
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,000
When she was confronted about the evidence,

797
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:14,000
Dorothea denied knowing anything about the bodies discovered.

798
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,000
I have no idea, officer.

799
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,000
No.

800
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,000
I'll never go out there.

801
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,000
Seriously.

802
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:19,000
I've seen all these people living here.

803
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,000
It could have been anybody.

804
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,000
It's like a who done it kind of, right?

805
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,000
Except it was her.

806
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,000
Yeah.

807
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,000
According to one officer, quote,

808
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,000
she was emotionless and she would look straight into my eyes and answer every question.

809
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,000
She never flinched.

810
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,000
She never said anything.

811
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,000
She denied everything.

812
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,000
And now we know about our lying episode that looking straight into your eyes

813
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,000
and directly answering questions isn't a sign of lying.

814
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,000
Yeah.

815
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,000
That's confident.

816
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,000
Yeah.

817
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,000
Or dissociated.

818
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000
Well, it's supposed to be.

819
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000
Yeah.

820
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,000
Neighbors would later tell authorities that they had complained for months about the smell coming from her backyard.

821
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,000
One neighbor was noted as saying, quote,

822
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,000
we couldn't stand it.

823
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,000
It definitely was something dead.

824
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,000
It had a sweet, sickly smell.

825
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,000
It's a body farm.

826
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,000
Yeah.

827
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,000
Essentially.

828
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,000
When asked about the smell by anyone,

829
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,000
Dorothea would simply say it was fertilizer.

830
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,000
It's just fertilizer.

831
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,000
It's just shit.

832
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,000
Another neighbor was noted as saying about the Puente House, quote,

833
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,000
if somebody walked on her lawn,

834
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:23,000
she'd cuss at them in a language that would make a sailor blush.

835
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:26,000
She's very particular about her lawn.

836
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,000
A taxi driver was also interviewed due to the fact that he frequently picked Dorothea up.

837
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,000
And he was noted as saying that she claimed to have a, quote,

838
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,000
cursed room in her home where, quote,

839
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:42,000
people died all the time of bleeding ulcers.

840
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,000
It reminds me of the Diane Stouty case.

841
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,000
You know, they had to rush Sarah to the hospital because they didn't want her dying at the house again.

842
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,000
Yeah.

843
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:54,000
Because, you know, Rachel said, oh, houses are nasty when people die in them.

844
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:55,000
Oh, yeah.

845
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,000
Remember?

846
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,000
Yeah.

847
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,000
After killing her dad and her brother.

848
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,000
Gosh.

849
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,000
How, how, ugh.

850
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:02,000
Terrible.

851
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,000
So that's nuts that she would say that to a taxi driver and be like,

852
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,000
oh, I have a dead room or whatever.

853
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Dead room.

854
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,000
One Sacramento social worker was also noted as later saying about Dorothea, quote,

855
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,000
I've done placement with homeless people, helped them get their money and stabilize their lives.

856
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,000
Now I wonder if they would have been better off if they'd stayed homeless.

857
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,000
It was better to stay on the streets than to live with this bitch.

858
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,000
Yeah.

859
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:30,000
Since there were multiple people living in the home at the time of the discoveries,

860
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000
Dorothea was not immediately considered the primary suspect.

861
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,000
Police decided to return the following day to continue their investigation.

862
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:42,000
The next morning, despite officers being at the property,

863
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,000
Dorothea asked if she could just go to a nearby hotel to meet her nephew for a cup of coffee.

864
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,000
I'm just going to be right there.

865
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,000
I'm just going to go right over there and I'm going to be there with my nephew.

866
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,000
And she was wearing this like bright pink get up like this fucking obvious outfit.

867
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,000
Yeah.

868
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,000
Of course she did not go where she said she was going and I don't know why police let her in the first place.

869
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,000
Oh yeah, sure.

870
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,000
We'll catch up at the end just a little bit.

871
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,000
Instead, she fled to LA to evade the police.

872
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,000
Of course.

873
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
Well, she was already in California so it wasn't that farfetched.

874
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:18,000
Almost immediately after arriving in LA, Dorothea was on the hunt for another victim to take advantage of.

875
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:23,000
Because now she's going to need, you know, plain money to get the fuck out of the US.

876
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,000
She had befriended an elderly male pensioner whom she had met in a bar

877
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:32,000
and began chatting him up with the intention of making him her next victim.

878
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:38,000
Unbeknownst to her, the man actually immediately recognized Dorothea as being the woman who was on the run from police.

879
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,000
Oh no.

880
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,000
It was basically on every TV station at the time.

881
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,000
She's just like in the bar and then like right above her head as a TV with her.

882
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,000
Yeah, exactly.

883
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:53,000
This man would phone police who would locate and arrest Dorothea within five days of her disappearance.

884
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:59,000
When Sacramento TV station KCRA learned that Dorothea had been picked up in Los Angeles,

885
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,000
they flew down on a private jet to cover the story.

886
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:03,000
Damn.

887
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:10,000
Sacramento police as well as KCRA were all very adamant about getting Dorothea back to the city where her crimes were committed.

888
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:17,000
The police department actually asked KCRA if they could fly back to Sacramento in their private jet with Dorothea.

889
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:23,000
To which of course KCRA agreed as long as they were allowed to interview her on the flight home.

890
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:30,000
Yeah. Detectives reluctantly agreed but they would not allow any questions directly having to do with the murders to be asked.

891
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,000
So the interview ended up being short and awkward.

892
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,000
It was like so what do you do in your spare time?

893
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,000
Oh wait, can't talk about that.

894
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,000
Yeah, exactly.

895
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,000
So what do you do for work?

896
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:43,000
Oh nope, can't talk about that.

897
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,000
Any hobbies?

898
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,000
Any hobbies?

899
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:54,000
The most memorable thing about this interview perhaps is the fact that Dorothea was saying that she used to do extensive volunteer work

900
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,000
and was quoted as saying quote, I used to be a very good person at one time.

901
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,000
Win.

902
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,000
Bitch win.

903
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:04,000
Win. We heard it all, win.

904
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:08,000
Police would charge Dorothea for nine murders.

905
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:09,000
Okay.

906
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,000
For the seven bodies being found in the yard.

907
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:18,000
And additionally, Everson Gilmuth who was found in the box and Ruth Monroe who had overdosed years prior.

908
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,000
Oh okay, even though she was, because it was real suicide I guess they overturned that?

909
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,000
They overturned it.

910
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:24,000
Did she confess to it?

911
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,000
Well they charged her for this.

912
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,000
Oh I see, I see.

913
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:35,000
Kevin Climo and Peter Velt in the third, the two defense lawyers in the trial put in a request for a change of venue due to the seriousness of the case

914
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,000
and the judge agreed moving the trial to Monterey County, California.

915
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,000
This is about three and a half hours south of Sacramento.

916
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:49,000
Throughout the trial the defense tried to paint Dorothea as a sweet grandmother-like type who was willing and able to help anybody that needed it

917
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,000
and was even willing to give up her home to strangers.

918
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,000
And it was the strangers that buried all of those people.

919
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,000
While the prosecution, led by John O'Mara, painted a very different story.

920
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:05,000
He stated about Dorothea that she was a manipulative criminal who preyed on the weak and lied about her age to seem harmless

921
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:10,000
while stealing nearly $90,000 from her tenants over the years.

922
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:16,000
So it would be the equivalent of about $330,000 today, which is, that's a lot.

923
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,000
That is a lot.

924
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,000
But divide that by nine.

925
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,000
That's not a lot for each person.

926
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,000
And however many years she was doing this for.

927
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,000
Doing that, yeah.

928
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,000
I mean, it's not worth someone's life is what your choices are.

929
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,000
No, yeah exactly.

930
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:30,000
It's definitely not worth somebody's life.

931
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,000
Yeah, I know.

932
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,000
I mean it's not like she was like high rolling either.

933
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,000
Like, you know, what a loser.

934
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,000
You're a loser.

935
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:46,000
John O'Mara on top of being the prosecuting lawyer was also the homicide supervisor in the Sacramento County District Attorney's office.

936
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:52,000
While her defense lawyers agreed that she may be a thief, they argued that she was absolutely not a murderer,

937
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:59,000
bringing into evidence the pathologist report that was unable to determine the cause of death for any of the corpses.

938
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,000
Hmm.

939
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:08,000
O'Mara, the prosecutor, called over 130 witnesses to the stand to testify against her Thea during her year long trial.

940
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,000
130 witnesses?

941
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,000
For the prosecution.

942
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,000
For a year, wow.

943
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:17,000
O'Mara agreed that Dorothea had used sleeping pills, putting her tenants to sleep before she suffocated them,

944
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,000
and then hired convicts to dig the holes in her yard.

945
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,000
Jesus, I know.

946
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,000
It's terrible.

947
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Although O'Mara had a lot of witnesses and a lot of evidence that Dorothea was the mastermind behind these deaths,

948
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:33,000
he would also admit that it was all circumstantial and would refer to the trial as, quote,

949
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,000
the mother of all circumstantial evidence cases.

950
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,000
The prosecution.

951
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:42,000
So they wouldn't find DNA or hair or anything?

952
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:45,000
Well, I mean, even if it was, I mean, they were living with her.

953
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
So how could you say it was her?

954
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,000
How could you say it wasn't someone else that lived there?

955
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,000
Yeah.

956
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,000
And there's plenty of probably their fingerprints are everywhere, her fingerprints are everywhere.

957
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,000
Yeah.

958
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:01,000
O'Mara's closing argument would focus on the murder specifically stating, quote,

959
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,000
does anyone become responsible for their conduct in this world?

960
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,000
These people were human beings.

961
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,000
They had a right to live.

962
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:14,000
They did not have a lot of possessions, no houses, no cars, only their social security checks and their lives.

963
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,000
She took it all.

964
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:17,000
Death is the only appropriate penalty.

965
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:18,000
Hell yeah.

966
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,000
She had the death penalty?

967
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,000
Just wait.

968
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,000
Fuck.

969
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:29,000
The writers were known as saying that Dorothea was one of the most, quote, cold and calculating female killers the country had ever seen.

970
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,000
It was her whole life.

971
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,000
Her whole life.

972
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,000
She was scamming people.

973
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:34,000
She was scamming people, yeah.

974
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:41,000
Climo's closing argument consisted of him showing the jury a psychology based photo that can be viewed from multiple different perspectives.

975
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:46,000
He was noted as saying about this, quote, keep in mind things are not always as they seem.

976
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:47,000
That's the defense.

977
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,000
Mm-hmm.

978
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,000
Kind of a good point.

979
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:53,000
But he's wrong because he's defending a murder.

980
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,000
Yeah.

981
00:53:54,000 --> 00:54:00,000
At one point he stated, quote, Dorothea Montalvo Puente stole money.

982
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,000
She had larceny in her heart.

983
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:08,000
He then looked right at Dorothea and stated, quote, Dorothea Montalvo Puente, you're a thief.

984
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:12,000
Before turning to the jury and stating, quote, that doesn't make her a killer.

985
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,000
Ooh.

986
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,000
Ooh.

987
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,000
He was trying to be like intense about it.

988
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:18,000
Yeah.

989
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:19,000
It sounds intense.

990
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:26,000
The defense would call in several witnesses as well to show Dorothea's caring side, including one of her long lost daughters.

991
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,000
Yeah, the daughter's going to be like, she's a real fucking peach.

992
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,000
Yeah, she's a peach.

993
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,000
She gave me up for adoption before I was even born.

994
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,000
Seriously.

995
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:43,000
Peter of Loudon addressed the jury in a loud, confident tone in his closing argument stating, quote, we are here today to determine one thing.

996
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,000
What is the value of Dorothea Puente's life?

997
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,000
That is the question.

998
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,000
Does she have to be killed?

999
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:57,000
He then spoke softly about Dorothea's traumatic childhood and what she had to go through indicating she had it rough growing up.

1000
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,000
He urged the jurors to try to see the world through Dorothea's eyes.

1001
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:06,000
And it sucks because it's really, I mean, that's really unfortunate and it is her life.

1002
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:07,000
Yeah.

1003
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:09,000
She doesn't mean that she needs to get away with murder.

1004
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:22,000
She wasn't given a lot of tools, but instead of, you know, figuring out a way that she could exist in this world in a way that was helpful to people, she decided to victimize them the same way that she was victimized.

1005
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,000
Exactly.

1006
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,000
Not okay.

1007
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,000
No, of course not.

1008
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:32,000
He then continued, quote, you have heard the despair, which was the foundation of her life, the anger and resentment.

1009
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:40,000
If anyone in the jury room tells you it was not that bad, ask them, would you want that to happen to yourself? Would you want that to happen to your children?

1010
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:53,000
I am led to believe if there is any reason for us to be living here on earth, it is to somehow enhance one another's humanity, to love, to touch each other with kindness, to know that you have made just one person breathe easier because you have lived.

1011
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:59,000
I submit to you, ladies and gentlemen, that is why these people came to testify for Dorothea Puente.

1012
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:13,000
I think you can only truly understand why so many people testified and asked you to spare Dorothea's life only if you have ever fallen down and stumbled on the road of life and had someone pick you up, give you comfort, give you love, show you the way.

1013
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:17,000
Then you will understand why these people believe Dorothea's life is worth saving.

1014
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,000
That is mitigating.

1015
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,000
That is human quality that deserves to be preserved.

1016
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,000
It is a flame of humanity that has burned inside Dorothea since she was young.

1017
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:31,000
That is the reason to give Dorothea Puente life without the possibility of parole.

1018
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,000
Murdering someone is not a stumble.

1019
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,000
Yeah.

1020
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,000
It's not a stumble, fall, and then recover.

1021
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,000
It's an impulsive act.

1022
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,000
I made a mistake.

1023
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,000
No.

1024
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:43,000
No.

1025
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:44,000
Nine fucking times.

1026
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,000
Yeah.

1027
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:46,000
Nine fucking times.

1028
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,000
Nine times.

1029
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:48,000
Nine times.

1030
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,000
That's not a stumble.

1031
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:50,000
No.

1032
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:51,000
Absolutely not.

1033
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:56,000
The jury would deliberate for over a month and would eventually come back with their verdict.

1034
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,000
A month?

1035
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:02,000
They were deadlocked 11 to 1 for a murder conviction on all counts.

1036
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:03,000
No.

1037
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,000
This has made me so uncomfortable right now.

1038
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:05,000
I'm not adjusting in my seat.

1039
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:13,000
They would find Dorothea guilty of two first degree murder counts including special circumstances and one second degree murder count.

1040
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:18,000
So due to the special circumstances, that means the death penalty was on the table in the eyes of the jury.

1041
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,000
Okay.

1042
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:26,000
Dorothea would not receive the death penalty and six of the nine murders she was charged with would not be put on her record.

1043
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:31,000
She was out the next day walking the streets.

1044
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:43,000
In late 1993, Dorothea was sentenced to two life sentences by Judge Michael Virga to be served consecutively at Central California Women's Facility or CCWF in Chouchilla, California.

1045
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:50,000
Virga would also declare a mistrial on the other six counts of murder, leaving way for her to potentially be given the death penalty for those.

1046
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,000
She could be retried for those six.

1047
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,000
Okay.

1048
00:57:53,000 --> 00:58:01,000
Kathleen Lammer's executive director of the California Law Center on Long Term Care stated about Dorothea's boarding house, quote,

1049
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,000
These entities fall through the cracks.

1050
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:09,000
Not everybody running them as being nefarious, but nefarious activity can crop up.

1051
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,000
Yeah, this just falls through the cracks and then almost a dozen people fucking die.

1052
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,000
No, that doesn't just happen.

1053
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,000
Right.

1054
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,000
No.

1055
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,000
The 15 times that the police were there to do a check on her probation status.

1056
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:21,000
No.

1057
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:22,000
Really?

1058
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,000
Yeah.

1059
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,000
And there's no record of any of that?

1060
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,000
They should be held accountable for that for sure.

1061
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:31,000
After her arrest, Dorothea would meet with William Vickery, a forensic psychologist, frequently.

1062
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:38,000
William stated in an interview that he avoided directly asking Dorothea if she was a murderer because he knew she wouldn't answer him.

1063
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,000
He stated, quote, her eyes would fill with tears, but she would never admit it.

1064
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:47,000
It was too humiliating, too shameful for her to admit a responsibility for these crimes.

1065
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:54,000
And it was so counter to her strenuous effort all her life to be somebody who was respected, somebody important.

1066
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:59,000
During another interview in prison, Dorothea was noted as maintaining her innocence, saying, quote,

1067
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:03,000
They don't have all the facts, but God always puts obstacles in people's way.

1068
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,000
Oh my God.

1069
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,000
Look at Job, John, Paul, Moses.

1070
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:07,000
Things happen for a reason.

1071
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,000
I can't stand when people use religion to hide behind.

1072
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,000
I can't either.

1073
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,000
And I'm sorry, you're telling me that these people were fucking obstacles in your way?

1074
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:16,000
Yeah.

1075
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:17,000
Like what?

1076
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,000
Yeah, exactly.

1077
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:24,000
She also commented on her prison sentence when asked if she wished she had gotten the death penalty, stating, quote,

1078
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,000
Maybe I would have been better off.

1079
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:27,000
It's the same thing.

1080
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,000
I'm here until I die.

1081
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:37,000
However, until the end of her life, Dorothea would maintain her innocence, insisting that her tenants died of natural causes.

1082
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,000
That's great.

1083
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:39,000
Then call the fucking mortuary.

1084
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,000
Don't bury them in your fucking backyard.

1085
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:42,000
Yeah.

1086
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,000
It just like pokes a bunch of holes in your story.

1087
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,000
That makes no sense.

1088
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,000
They don't have natural causes, so I just buried them.

1089
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,000
And I didn't do anything wrong, but I do deserve the death penalty.

1090
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,000
Yeah, exactly.

1091
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:52,000
She was noted as saying, quote,

1092
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,000
The only time the borders were in good health was when they stayed at my home.

1093
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:01,000
I made them change their clothes every day, take a bath every day, and eat three meals a day.

1094
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:05,000
When they came to me, they were so sick they weren't expected to live.

1095
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:06,000
Bullshit.

1096
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:07,000
No, call bullshit.

1097
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,000
Bullshit.

1098
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:15,000
Dorothea Helen Puente died in prison from natural causes on March 27, 2011, at 82 years old.

1099
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,000
That's too long.

1100
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:20,000
That is the story of Dorothea Helen Puente.

1101
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,000
She lived too long.

1102
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,000
Nope, she lived too long.

1103
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,000
What a sinister young lady.

1104
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,000
Old lady.

1105
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,000
Old lady.

1106
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,000
She was an old lady.

1107
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:29,000
Like, God.

1108
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,000
And to use that, like, I'm old and feeble.

1109
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,000
I can't do anything.

1110
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,000
Tie this apple, dear.

1111
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,000
Yeah, like that kind of thing.

1112
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:40,000
Why is it spicy?

1113
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:41,000
Yeah.

1114
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:49,000
But, okay, so going back to the two psychological evaluations that she had, excuse me, she had

1115
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:54,000
gotten the personality, loose personality disorder diagnosis.

1116
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,000
Of course, we know now that it would be different.

1117
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:02,000
And then schizophrenia, which one do you think that she most closely resonates with?

1118
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:03,000
Personality.

1119
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,000
I agree.

1120
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:05,000
Personality more.

1121
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:11,000
I mean, I'm sure she had, I just don't see anything really indicative of a schizophrenia

1122
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:12,000
spectrum disorder.

1123
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,000
I don't.

1124
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,000
There was clearly no paranoia.

1125
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,000
If anything, she was brazen.

1126
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:24,000
And like, Applewhite, who had clear signs of paranoia, isolation, things of that nature.

1127
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,000
But, she also isolated the people.

1128
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,000
But, I feel like more because of control and manipulation.

1129
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,000
I don't feel like it was out of fear for herself.

1130
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:37,000
I think that she probably was suffering from personality disorder.

1131
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,000
I would say maybe anti-social personality disorder because, like we've said in the past

1132
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:46,000
and like we've talked about with that specific disorder, people with a disorder don't really

1133
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,000
care and they don't care that they don't care.

1134
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,000
They don't have feelings for anything or anybody.

1135
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:58,000
So, it kind of makes sense if she had that disorder that she would be so dissociated.

1136
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,000
When the cops came to check out her yard, she's like, I don't fucking care, go out and look

1137
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,000
out there.

1138
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:03,000
I don't know what's out there.

1139
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:04,000
Exactly.

1140
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,000
There was no emotion ever, even in prison.

1141
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,000
I guess if they gave me the death penalty, then it would be faster.

1142
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,000
I'm going to die in here anyways.

1143
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,000
What's the point?

1144
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,000
That's really anti-social personality disorder.

1145
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:20,000
There's no real connection to human nature or empathy or sympathy, even herself.

1146
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:25,000
Like you said, give me the shovel, I'll help you.

1147
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:29,000
Not really realizing the weight of what you're doing.

1148
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:33,000
I think that's another thing with anti-social, especially when people that do have that disorder

1149
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,000
do murder people.

1150
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,000
It's like, Kristen Gilbert as well.

1151
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,000
Yeah, I don't know fucking 12 people that I killed.

1152
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:43,000
I don't care.

1153
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,000
It's really dissociated.

1154
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:50,000
I definitely think that she should have been convicted of all of the murders.

1155
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:56,000
It's unfortunate that six of those nine people didn't get justice, but again, it's apparent

1156
01:02:56,000 --> 01:03:00,000
that she was the cause of them, although it's not on record.

1157
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:05,000
I'm surprised there wasn't more of a civil case push by the family members.

1158
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:11,000
If, because these were also some transient people that she was entrusted to take care

1159
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,000
of these people.

1160
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,000
Even being held liable for their deaths or something.

1161
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,000
Right, exactly.

1162
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:23,000
I didn't really look into it that much for the other six, as far as I could tell, none of that ever happened.

1163
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,000
Because either way, she was entrusted to take care of them.

1164
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:26,000
Yeah.

1165
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:27,000
And she didn't, clearly.

1166
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:28,000
Yeah, of course.

1167
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,000
And she was, I mean, people were referred to her and everything.

1168
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:36,000
One of the biggest things for me that really makes me upset about this case specifically,

1169
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:43,000
but cases like this, it's like you're taking advantage of the most vulnerable population of people.

1170
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:50,000
Like you have to be, like you literally cannot be sane or not mentally ill and do that.

1171
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:55,000
That's not, that's like human nature to want to help people that are in situations like that,

1172
01:03:55,000 --> 01:04:00,000
not take advantage of them because they won't notice or they don't know any better or whatever.

1173
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:07,000
God, it's just so awful and all these people were either physically ill or mentally ill or neurodivergent or things like that.

1174
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,000
Or elderly.

1175
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:09,000
Yeah, elderly.

1176
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:11,000
Like, God, it just breaks my heart.

1177
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:20,000
And she got away with not being a suspect right in the beginning because she had a good persona that she was,

1178
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,000
I don't want to say good, but she put on this persona that she was this innocent old lady.

1179
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:31,000
Had she not like fled and immediately tried to, has she not fled and had she not immediately tried to scam someone else,

1180
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,000
she might have gotten away with it.

1181
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,000
It might have been able to brush it off as someone else being the perpetrator.

1182
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:37,000
Yeah.

1183
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:39,000
Or it might have taken a lot longer to find her liable.

1184
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:47,000
And especially because she housed people that weren't neurotypical or people that had disorders or just, you know, illnesses,

1185
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,000
she probably could have convinced the cops it was somebody else.

1186
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,000
Yeah, exactly.

1187
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,000
You know, I mean, which is even worse.

1188
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,000
No, yeah, it's just awful.

1189
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:03,000
And like, poor Everson, like he was so loyal to her for so many years and he moves in and literally less than a week after he moves in,

1190
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:04,000
she freaking kills him.

1191
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:05,000
She kills him.

1192
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:06,000
God, that's so awful.

1193
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:07,000
Poor guy.

1194
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,000
I mean, poor everyone in the story, of course.

1195
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,000
And her childhood was, I mean, completely fucking awful.

1196
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:13,000
Her parents were shitheads.

1197
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:14,000
Yeah.

1198
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:21,000
And it was clearly a long cycle of untreated mental illness, alcoholism, you know, drug abuse, things like that, child abuse.

1199
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:23,000
Right, the abuse cycle.

1200
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,000
God, it's awful.

1201
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,000
This is just a really sad case.

1202
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:32,000
And I knew that, you know, it had come out recently on the episodes I wanted to bring light to it on the podcast.

1203
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,000
I think it really fit our theme.

1204
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,000
But yeah, that's my case.

1205
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:36,000
Really interesting case.

1206
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,000
I could have sworn that you were going to know it.

1207
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,000
No, I never heard of it.

1208
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,000
Wow.

1209
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,000
I was writing this one.

1210
01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:47,000
I didn't remember how heavy it was because I, again, I wrote it like a couple of weeks ago and then I was reading it this time.

1211
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:49,000
I was like, oh my God, I like this.

1212
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,000
Yeah, but.

1213
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,000
Oh my gosh, when the guy has flipped the notes to the column.

1214
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:54,000
I know.

1215
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:55,000
Fools.

1216
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:56,000
Bloody heaps.

1217
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,000
Well, thank you guys for joining us for another case.

1218
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:01,000
Do not scam people.

1219
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,000
It's not good to scam people.

1220
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,000
It's not nice.

1221
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:04,000
It's not nice to scam people.

1222
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,000
They take the elderly well.

1223
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,000
Make your own money.

1224
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:11,000
Don't scam people for their money that they worked hard for or that they applied for these benefits because they need it.

1225
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:12,000
Yeah, you guys are awesome.

1226
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,000
Thank you for all of the love and support again.

1227
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:20,000
And you can shout us out, chat to us on any social media and all that good stuff.

1228
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,000
And we will see you next time.

1229
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,000
Yeah.

1230
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,000
All right.

1231
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,000
Love you.

1232
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:25,000
Bye.

1233
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:31,000
Loving a pet is easy.

1234
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,000
Losing a pet is hard.

1235
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:39,000
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1236
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:45,000
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1237
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:51,000
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1238
01:06:51,000 --> 01:07:09,000
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