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Hello! Hello!

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Welcome to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer, I'm Koelle.

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And I'm Kenna.

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Really excited to be in here with you.

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I know.

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Yeah, it's a... I don't know why, I feel like it's been a while since we recorded.

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But it hasn't.

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Well, I think it's because we recorded on Monday, posted on Monday,

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and now we're recording Thursday, posting on Thursday.

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And I think it just...

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Usually when we sit down and we do a case, we also do ads,

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and like, you know, we'll usually sit in here for hours at a time.

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That's true.

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Although the last episode was about an hour.

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Yeah, it was. That was a good one. I liked it.

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That was fun.

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Got a lot of information out of that one.

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I feel like I meant to make a correction, but I don't remember what it was.

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But listening back, I was like, I don't think I said that right.

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Or I didn't... I think I wanted to convey something else, you know?

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I said it sounded fine.

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I think it was around the sorality part.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, the mirroring made so much sense, right?

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Yeah, it made a lot of sense.

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Right?

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Isn't that interesting?

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It's like, you know, you mirror someone, what... you know...

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Well, I'm just doing what you said, you know?

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Yeah.

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I was gonna bring it up to you.

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Yep.

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Sounds about right.

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So, we have some exciting news.

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You wanna share the exciting news?

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I'm sure if you guys have us on social media, you've already heard this, but...

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Cool.

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Yes.

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So, we've been busy bees, and that's part of the reason why our episodes haven't really

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been coming out.

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Like, strictly at midnight, they're usually later in the day.

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Instead of doing some research, I... yesterday, I purchased my first domain.

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Woohoo!

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So, we are the owners of diagnosing a killer.com.

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So, we are getting ready to launch a website for y'all, which will include merch and all

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kinds of cool things like that.

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But besides that, we have been approved to have a booth at the True Crime and Paranormal

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Podcast Festival.

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Really excited.

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That's gonna be in Austin in August.

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I'm so excited.

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I can't contain it.

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And we also have a coupon code.

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You should be able to get 15% off of a ticket to come see us in Austin.

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I believe it's August 25th through the 27th.

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And you'll be able to purchase a ticket with our coupon code once the website launches.

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Yeah, super freaking excited about that.

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Our little logo is on the website for them, so if you click on it, you can see our little

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logo.

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And then if you click on our logo, it takes you to, like, our page.

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Really excited.

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Not our website, but our RSS feed for now.

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Oh, okay.

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I didn't know that.

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Oh, you didn't know it was clickable?

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Yeah, so we're really excited to meet just a bunch of really cool creators, and this

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is the fourth annual that they've done, so they have a little bit of a leg up on us.

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There's a bunch of podcasts that have been, this is going to be their fourth year in a

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row going.

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And I think we're one of four or five podcasts that's going to be our first time.

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So we are really thankful for this opportunity, super excited, and not to mention that my

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best friend lives in Austin, so I get to see her all around there.

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So that's going to be really cool.

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You guys should definitely come check us out.

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We would love to meet you guys, and I know it's a three-day event, so we're going to

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do potentially a panel, and then we will have a meet and greet, of course, maybe some merch,

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things like that.

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But we also don't know what to expect because we never did.

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I'll bring the Sharpie.

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I'll bring the Snap.

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Oh, that's true, yeah.

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Ooh, I should get like a gold Sharpie.

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Ooh, a gold.

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Also, in the meantime, we are creating merch, like we said, so any ideas of anything that

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you guys would want, maybe on like a t-shirt or a mug or a dog water bowl, mat, or whatever

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you think, any quotes that you guys like that we say, or anything that maybe just

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spark our creativity because there's a couple things that we've thought of, but I know you

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guys are the listeners, so you guys have probably listened to multiple episodes in

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a row, which means that you have a better memory of all of our episodes than we do because

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we've recorded a bunch, so it would definitely help us out if you guys have any suggestions

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or anything you'd like for us to, anything you'd like to see on an item of merch.

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Sure, yeah, absolutely.

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Tell us what your catchphrases are, so, you know, something that you say often that you

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find yourself saying, and you're like, wow, that's from diagnosing a killer.

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That would be cool on a t-shirt.

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That would be cool.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, so just let us know.

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We love the feedback and continue to message us on Instagram and email us and stuff.

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We've been getting a lot more activity with that lately, so thank you guys for reaching

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out and we love to hear from you.

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I don't know how to segue into this, but it's your case and I'm really excited.

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Content warning, this episode depicts scenes of mass suicide and self-harm.

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Although these topics are described in a sensitive manner, the subject matters may still be disturbing.

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Awareness warning, we will also be discussing some topics that pertain to religion and the

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struggles of an LGBTQ plus community member.

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These topics discussed within this episode may be sensitive to some.

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If this episode is up for you, we encourage you to find another one of our episodes.

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Remember that your mental health comes first and we love you.

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You can reach the National Suicide Lifeline at 988 and the Trevor Project at 1-866-488-7386.

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You are not alone.

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Love you.

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Love you.

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Bye.

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Bye.

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So we're going to talk about Marshall Hearf, Applewhite, Jr.

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Oh God, what a fucking name.

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He was born in Spur, Texas on May 17th, 1931.

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Spur, Texas still to this day only has an IGA, a dollar a general, and a feed store.

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Really?

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Yeah.

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It's still very, very small.

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It's by Waco.

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Yeah.

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I don't know if it's by Waco.

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I'm asking.

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Oh no, I think it's more like not necessarily panhandling, south of Panhandle.

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Very tiny.

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Like it has like one road through it.

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I've never been there before, but it seems like a very small town and I just looked

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it up.

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There's like the population of like 1100.

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Yeah.

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Today.

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Very tiny.

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So Marshall Jr. clearly the son of Marshall Applewhite Sr. and Louise Applewhite.

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He was born the third child out of four total kiddos.

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We had Anna Louise, Stella Jane, Marshall Hearf, and the youngest was John Winfield.

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Those are cute names.

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Aren't they?

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They're so country.

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Anna Louise.

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Anna Louise.

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Anna Louise.

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Stella Jane.

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Anna Louise.

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You need it over here.

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You do your chores.

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John Winfield.

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That's the last name.

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That is the last name.

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The children's father was a Presbyterian minister and the household was very religious

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growing up.

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Marshall Sr. moved the family around a lot since part of his mission or his goal was

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to travel, build up congregations and churches, and then move on.

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Okay.

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So the family was very nomadic.

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Marshall Jr. loved to be in church and he really connected to the sermons that his

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father would preach.

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Soon enough, Marshall too would wish to become a leader in the church and had aspirations

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of becoming a minister.

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Other than some of the instability as far as the moving went, Marshall grew up with

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what he seemed to have like a relatively normal upbringing.

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Marshall Jr. insisted on going by his middle name, Hearf.

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Yeah, let's just call him Hearf.

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Hearf.

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What up Hearf?

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Which sounds silly to me.

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It sounds really silly.

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It sounds like Marshall, but I guess it's big Marshall, little Marshall.

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Hearf.

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Could have gone by Marsh.

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Could have gone by Marsh.

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Could have gone by Shal.

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Throughout his life, Hearf's sexual orientation was questioned by others and was especially

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looked closely at by his father.

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He graduated from Corpus Christi High.

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Did he know?

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He did.

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Well, the family lived in the Corpus Christi area.

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It was said about the family from a fellow churchgoer that Mr. Applewhite Sr. was always

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smiling and that he was a really warm person.

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Louise was a very hard worker and she often ran the choir on the music side of the sermons.

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She was really active in music.

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Hearf was determined to attend Austin College in Sherman, Texas after graduating.

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And Austin College, it sounds silly because we know Austin is a city, but Austin College

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is a Presbyterian school.

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And here Hearf found a passion for philosophy.

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While in attendance at Austin College, Hearf was very active in religious groups and organizations

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and found that he was also musically inclined, similar to his mother.

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What year was this again?

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It would have been in the 1950s somewhere in there because eventually he would graduate

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college with a bachelor's in philosophy.

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So, yeah, 1952.

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Honestly, like I never understood philosophy and like thank you, professor.

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I don't remember your name for passing me because I swear to God I got an F when I was

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in my entry to philosophy class at Texas State, but he gave me a C.

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Really?

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I didn't get an F until like the very end of the fucking course and then all of a sudden

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I had a C. I was like, shout out because I would have had to like take it again.

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I'm pretty sure that was actually my second time taking it because I failed it the first

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time.

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I love philosophy.

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I love philosophy.

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I think it's, well, I'm not a religious person, so I think that philosophy really appeals

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to me just in general.

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I just don't understand it.

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There's too many names.

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There's too many dates of like when these people were alive.

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I know like Aristotle and Plato, one of them was the student of the other, but I know

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Freud.

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That's pretty much like Freud.

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Freud has psychology though.

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But he, see, fucking obviously I don't even know.

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I have a psychology degree.

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I don't even know.

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I know Freud and Tesla and all those guys.

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I thought he was also in philosophy, no.

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I mean, he might have, yeah, probably maybe, but he was a psychologist.

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He wasn't really like a philosophy is like the study of like why we're on this planet.

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I know.

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Yeah.

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I could have sworn that he would did both.

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Whatever.

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It doesn't fucking matter.

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He thinks them are hysterical and he's dead.

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So we can continue on.

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Are we not?

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I'm not.

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I know some are though.

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I'm not.

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I'm perfect.

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Far from it, folks.

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So during college, essentially the year that he would graduate in 952, he would actually,

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the year that he would graduate in 1952.

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I don't know why it's not under my headphones that you said 1952.

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Probably.

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Okay.

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Nice to see you too.

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So we always talk about people getting married too quickly, right?

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So the year that he graduated in 952.

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No.

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Oh my God.

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I was gonna, I was almost gonna let it slide the first time that I was like, wait, I could

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have sworn she didn't say that.

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Well, now you've heard it twice.

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Okay.

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1952, he married a woman named Annie Pierce.

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Okay.

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Got it?

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Okay.

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Got it.

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During this time, he also, of course, I said that he had already kind of found this passion

254
00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:42,720
for music.

255
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,160
He was actually known to sing operas and was known for his baritone voice.

256
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,160
So it's hard.

257
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,160
Yeah.

258
00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,240
And he was a really, really good singer.

259
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,920
He also excelled at public speaking and leadership roles often.

260
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,120
You know, he was in a lot of extracurricular activities that required him to be a leader.

261
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,120
Yes.

262
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,120
Okay.

263
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,760
Wanting to kind of stay on his path, original path of becoming a minister, Herf and Annie

264
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:11,680
would relocate to Union Presbyterian Seminary to study theology and this was in Richmond,

265
00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:12,680
Virginia.

266
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:13,680
Okay.

267
00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:15,960
Theology is also something I never understood.

268
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:19,600
I didn't have to take a theology class, but I think I wouldn't have excelled at it.

269
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:20,600
Religion.

270
00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,600
Herf and Annie would live here for a few years while Herf continued to study and then the

271
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:31,080
couple would move to North Carolina where Herf found work as a Presbyterian minister

272
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:36,320
and he was in head of like heading the music department essentially of this local church.

273
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,960
It seems like he's doing like well, he seems fine, right?

274
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:39,960
He seems like a normal dude.

275
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:40,960
Totally fine.

276
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,120
A little interested in religion and philosophy and theology.

277
00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:44,120
Yeah.

278
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,120
You know, whatever.

279
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,120
And leadership and you know, it's not going to go anywhere.

280
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,120
Okay.

281
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,120
It's not going to go anywhere.

282
00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,520
Diagnosing a happy priest minister.

283
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:58,120
Herf would be drafted in 1954 where he served in the Army Signal Corps, which I thought

284
00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:59,120
was really interesting.

285
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,360
So communications.

286
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,600
That's interesting to me that he was drafted around that time because there wasn't, besides

287
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,560
the Vietnam War happening a year later, there wasn't a giant thing going on.

288
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:07,560
It says World War II.

289
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:10,280
It doesn't know philosophy but knows what the Vietnam War was.

290
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,280
Well, yeah.

291
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,120
Well, it was right after 1954.

292
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,120
Yeah.

293
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,360
You know who I'm dating?

294
00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,360
I'm gonna marry.

295
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,360
True.

296
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,360
Yeah.

297
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,040
So yes, he was stationed in Austria and then I think he spent some time in White Sands,

298
00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:27,520
New Mexico, but either way in 1956, he was discharged honorably.

299
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:28,520
Okay.

300
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:33,200
Eventually, the pull of his love for music and performance was entirely too much.

301
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:39,000
Herf would move to Colorado in an effort to pursue a degree in theater arts.

302
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,000
That's interesting.

303
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,000
So I know.

304
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,000
Isn't that strange?

305
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,040
Well, I mean, he's good at opera and stuff.

306
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,680
So clearly he has like a knack for that.

307
00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:47,680
He's got a knack for that.

308
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,560
Going from being a priest to like, I want to be on Broadway.

309
00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:52,560
Working in the army.

310
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:53,560
Yeah.

311
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:56,880
Kind of jumping around, dude.

312
00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,320
After graduating with a master's degree at the University of Colorado in theater arts,

313
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,280
Herf made the decision to relocate to New York to pursue a career in acting.

314
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:06,280
Okay.

315
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:07,760
So he wanted to act.

316
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,200
In New York, Herf would soon realize that his dream of becoming a famous Broadway performer

317
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,920
was unlikely as the couple was struggling financially.

318
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:16,920
That's showbiz.

319
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:17,920
Very quickly.

320
00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:18,920
That's showbiz, baby.

321
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:19,920
Showbiz, baby.

322
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:29,320
So I tried very hard to find more information about the two children that they had during

323
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,320
this time.

324
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,320
I was mostly looking for dates of when they were born because I didn't really see any.

325
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:40,040
But after like 30 or 40 minutes of snooping around, I was able to find information on

326
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:41,960
the kids.

327
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:46,680
Their names have changed and purely out of respect for the fact that they do not want

328
00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:50,160
to be associated with their biological father, I'm not going to talk about them.

329
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,240
But they did have two children around this time.

330
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,240
Around this time.

331
00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,240
Yeah.

332
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,480
Or in the years that they were married.

333
00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:02,800
So yes, Herf would give up on these dreams of being in New York, having my name in lights.

334
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,680
And he moved to Alabama of all places.

335
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,360
This is all over the fucking world map.

336
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,560
He could have gone to LA, he could have tried there.

337
00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:10,360
Or Nashville, I mean shit.

338
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,680
Yeah, for music.

339
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:18,240
He began to teach at the University of Alabama in Tuscaloosa, Tuscaloosa heart.

340
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,880
Tuscaloosa.

341
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,680
Here he became a choir director and he seemed to really like this position.

342
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:30,200
However, this would be short lived as rumors began to spread that Herf had began a sexual

343
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,960
relationship with a student, a male student.

344
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:33,960
Oh no.

345
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:34,960
Wait, hold on.

346
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,960
I don't want to sound like I'm like, oh no.

347
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,200
Oh no, he's gay.

348
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:40,960
I meant oh no.

349
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:41,960
Infernality.

350
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,960
Oh no.

351
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:43,960
It's a man.

352
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,800
Oh no, it's a man.

353
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,960
This was enough for the university to cut ties with Herf completely.

354
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:54,720
Learning about this affair, Herf and Annie's relationship began to spiral.

355
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:59,400
The family then moved to Houston, Texas and Herf started working at the music department

356
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,640
at the University of St. Thomas in Houston.

357
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,480
Interesting that he would be allowed to work at another university.

358
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,280
I feel like that would be public record.

359
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:08,280
It was just rumors though.

360
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:09,280
It's not like he was late.

361
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:10,280
Oh yeah.

362
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:16,320
It's not like he learned that he had the sexual relationship, but he just left.

363
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,800
I'm seemingly to start over anew, right?

364
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,280
So the marriage began to fall apart even still after the move.

365
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:28,040
Herf decided that it was time for him to come out not only to his wife but to his family.

366
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:29,920
Of course, this was met with rejection.

367
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:32,480
His dad's very religious.

368
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,000
Annie filed for divorce and his father denounced him.

369
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,920
Oh god, it's awful.

370
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:37,920
Really sad.

371
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:43,640
Nonetheless, Herf was optimistic about his opportunity to live his life authentically

372
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:48,600
and began his first same-sex relationship during this time while he was going through

373
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,680
the divorce or divorced.

374
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,080
He did date some women as well, so I don't know if he was struggling with orientation

375
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,160
as far as, I mean, that's his business.

376
00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,520
That's just really makes me so sad that he, like it's been this long.

377
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:07,760
He's probably in his 30s now and he's just now finally living the life that he

378
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,600
wanted to live.

379
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,520
His students loved him very much.

380
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,360
They considered him to be a sharp dresser and a fun person.

381
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,160
He was a good teacher.

382
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,880
Herf was still involved in church and he often participated in various choirs of different

383
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:21,880
churches.

384
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:26,280
He also participated in at least 15 roles at the Houston Grand Opera.

385
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:27,280
Wow.

386
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:28,280
Yes.

387
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:32,680
And he actually performed many times with Patsy Swayze, which is Patrick Swayze's mother.

388
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:38,400
So he was a really good actor, singer, performer.

389
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,720
As much as he felt like his life was peaking, Herf was still slowly becoming depressed.

390
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:49,520
And in 1970, Herf would resign his position after another failed relationship with a student

391
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,160
and the passing of his father.

392
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,360
Oh no.

393
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,560
So he never got closer with his father whatsoever.

394
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:01,800
He cited psychological problems and admitted himself into a hospital for evaluation, but

395
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:08,040
he did tell some family members that there was varying stories.

396
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,600
He said that he went to go visit a friend at a hospital.

397
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,200
People around him at the time knew that he was going through the psychological thing.

398
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,840
He had actually been evaluated by the college's psychology department, by somebody that he

399
00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:23,400
worked with and suggested that maybe he go.

400
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:28,400
He told other people that he was in the hospital because of a cut or something.

401
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:34,720
Either way, he went into the hospital and he also had, around this time, had expressed

402
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,080
that he had begun hearing voices and thought that a stay in the hospital might cure him

403
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,080
of his queerness as well.

404
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:42,080
Oh my God.

405
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:43,080
Yes.

406
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:44,960
He thought he was mad.

407
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,760
Here he would meet the woman that would not only change his life forever, but the lives

408
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:53,000
of many others.

409
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,600
Bonnie Lou Nuttles was born to a Baptist household and grew up religious.

410
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,440
After she married, she and her ex-husband had four children together, and by the time

411
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:06,120
that Bonnie became a registered nurse, she had begun dabbling in astrology and practicing

412
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:07,120
rituals.

413
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:10,920
I don't know if she was like Wiccan or what, but it kind of sounded like that a little

414
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:11,920
bit.

415
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:12,920
Yeah.

416
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,320
But she doesn't love a Wiccan.

417
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,320
Aww.

418
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,760
I don't really know much about their, I just know that they paint their doors like certain

419
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:21,760
colors.

420
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:22,760
Do they?

421
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:23,760
Their front doors?

422
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:24,760
Oh yeah.

423
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:25,760
I don't know that.

424
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,960
I don't know, or like bright, like purple or fuchsia.

425
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:28,960
I didn't know that.

426
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:29,960
That's just what I've been told.

427
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:30,960
I don't know about truth.

428
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,440
I'm going to do that.

429
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:38,400
At one point she visited a fortune teller that told Bonnie, one day you'll meet a tall,

430
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,840
light-haired and fair-complected man that would change her life forever.

431
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,120
That is the vaguest description of anyone in her life.

432
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:46,120
That could be anyone.

433
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:47,120
I could mean three.

434
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:50,760
So you mean a guy, an average dude?

435
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,040
It's a Mayan.

436
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:58,240
So by the time that Herf was admitted into the hospital that Bonnie worked at, Bonnie

437
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,040
had her eye out specifically for a tall, fair-haired, fair-skinned man.

438
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,560
She's like, oh my god, there he is.

439
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:06,560
Shit.

440
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,200
This has to be the one.

441
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,240
I didn't wear clean underwear today.

442
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,640
So yes, Herf matched this description and the two became incredibly close very quickly.

443
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,000
They discussed religion and philosophy and the occult.

444
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,400
After Bonnie gave Herf his first tarot card reading, the two believed that they were

445
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:30,840
both destined for big things and soon the two would become roommates after Herf was

446
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,240
discharged from the hospital.

447
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,240
Okay.

448
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,240
And they were roommates.

449
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,000
And they were roommates.

450
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,440
Herf believed that he and Bonnie were connected somehow from the past life and they had an

451
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,120
intense spiritual connection.

452
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:47,600
God, I see where this is going.

453
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:48,600
Right.

454
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:54,000
So they talked about UFOs and extraterrestrials and began to believe that they would be able

455
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,400
to communicate with aliens.

456
00:19:57,400 --> 00:19:58,400
Henry Thomas.

457
00:19:58,400 --> 00:19:59,400
Aw.

458
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:00,400
Hi Henry.

459
00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:01,400
Hi Henry.

460
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,400
Have we never shouted out Henry before?

461
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,400
We haven't.

462
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,600
Henry, if you're listening, we love you and we haven't seen you in a long time.

463
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,480
So although they seemed to be a couple, Herf and Bonnie's relationship was completely

464
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,840
platonic, denouncing sex completely from their lives.

465
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:23,640
Moving over the Bible, the pair started calling themselves the twos in reference to Revelation

466
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,640
11.3-13.

467
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:25,640
Okay.

468
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,640
You ready for this?

469
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:28,640
Yes.

470
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:35,480
Quote, And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for 1,260 days, clothes

471
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:36,480
in sackcloth.

472
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,800
They are the two olive trees and the two lampstands, and they stand before the Lord of the earth.

473
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:48,320
If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies.

474
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,240
This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

475
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,480
They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time that

476
00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,280
they are prophesying.

477
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,360
And they have the power to turn the waters into blood and strike the earth with every

478
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:05,800
kind of plague as often as they want.

479
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,080
Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the abyss will

480
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,520
attack them and overpower and kill them.

481
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,680
Their bodies will lie in a public square of the great city, which is figuratively called

482
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,160
Sodom in Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

483
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,840
For three and a half days, some from every people, tribe, language, and nation will gaze

484
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,920
on their bodies and refuse them burial.

485
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:34,440
The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other

486
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,600
gifts because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

487
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,720
And after three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered them and they stood

488
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,560
on their feet and terror struck those who saw them.

489
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,000
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, come up here, and they went up to

490
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,440
the heaven in the cloud where their enemies looked on.

491
00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:00,000
At the very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed.

492
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,560
Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake and the survivors were terrified and gave

493
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,560
glory to the God of heaven.

494
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:08,800
The end.

495
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,640
So essentially that's what they're referencing when they call themselves the two.

496
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,920
They are the two, I mean I know there's four horses and an apocalypse, but these are the

497
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:21,160
two that essentially die and then are resurrected.

498
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,360
No, yeah, it's like Colin Hanks and Dexter.

499
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:24,360
Yeah.

500
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:26,360
He's like, we're the two prophets.

501
00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:27,360
Exactly.

502
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:28,360
We cannot die.

503
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,160
And he's like, you fucking stabbed me.

504
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,160
But I am dead.

505
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:35,760
Dexter in a nutshell.

506
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,920
Yeah, also shout out Colin Hanks if you're listening.

507
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,080
I love you.

508
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:46,600
That's one of those things that really bugs me is when people use religion as a weapon

509
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,760
or as like a means to act out evil.

510
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:50,760
Yeah.

511
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:51,760
Well it says it right here.

512
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:52,760
It's right here.

513
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:53,760
Yeah, while it's a little interpretation.

514
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:58,720
In 1973, the two packed their belongings, said goodbye to their families, including Bonnie's

515
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:05,280
young children, and began touring the US in search of a place of a land to create a congregation.

516
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,400
So they're not going to go to Egypt like it says.

517
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:08,960
No, they got to find it somewhere else.

518
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,560
Oh, so then it doesn't make sense.

519
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,000
They're not even going to the place.

520
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,960
Well, it said in the land, which is figuratively called Sodom in Egypt.

521
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:17,960
Oh.

522
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:18,960
That's what that said.

523
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:19,960
A loophole.

524
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:20,960
Loopholes.

525
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,960
There's always a loophole.

526
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:26,520
So whenever I say the two, just realize that I'm saying it like capitalization for the

527
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:27,520
most part.

528
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,680
So the two quickly ran out of funds, traveling from park to park, camp to camp, stealing what

529
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,960
they could when they could, and they also sold their blood for money.

530
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:36,960
Oh, so not steal?

531
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,440
Did you not read that part of the fucking Bible?

532
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,440
No, that's the Bible.

533
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:40,440
The Bible?

534
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,440
The Bible.

535
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,440
Oh, I love the Bible.

536
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,440
The knockoff Bible.

537
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:49,960
So they're just using this one scripture and they're going to interpret it to do whatever

538
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,960
the fuck they want.

539
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:51,960
Sure.

540
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:52,960
Essentially.

541
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:53,960
That's ridiculous.

542
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:54,960
Yeah.

543
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,960
I mean, there's some probably some things going on in there.

544
00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,680
Up in the old bird cage.

545
00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,800
He's clearly mentally ill.

546
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:01,960
I'm not sure about her.

547
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,720
He's clearly hearing things.

548
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:09,880
They would gain their first follower in 1974, which was a family friend from Houston, and

549
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,640
she began to travel with them as well.

550
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:19,600
Hurf began to write propaganda depicting himself as Jesus Christ reincarnated as a cowboy.

551
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,600
What the fuck?

552
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,320
In reference to himself because he was from Texas.

553
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:25,840
I'd like to see that painting.

554
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:26,840
Howdy, y'all.

555
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,840
Oh my gosh.

556
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:37,400
You've seen those paintings of Jesus where he's slam dunking a basketball or he's lying

557
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,400
on one of those.

558
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,400
He's laying on one of those.

559
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,400
It's like one of those.

560
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:41,400
He's a cowboy.

561
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,400
He's a cowboy.

562
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:43,400
It's hilarious.

563
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,160
How dare you.

564
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:50,840
They outlined their religion saying that the afterlife would be called the next level.

565
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:58,240
And in the next level, they would be transported through space ships and fly off into the

566
00:24:58,240 --> 00:24:59,880
center of something I don't remember.

567
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:00,880
I'm sorry.

568
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,120
I'm not meaning to laugh.

569
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,400
They truly probably believed this.

570
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,400
Oh yeah, absolutely.

571
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,840
That's really sad because clearly they're, at least him if not both of them are experiencing

572
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,440
a delusion of some sort.

573
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,440
In May, Hurf was arrested for not returning a rental car because it was quote, divinely

574
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,040
gifted to him.

575
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,440
What was it?

576
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,760
He spent six months in jail for this.

577
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,560
And after his release, all of this time that he kind of had by himself, he really wanted

578
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,600
to hit the pavement as far as recruiting people, as many people as possible.

579
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,360
He's like, that six months in jail was divinely given to me because it gave me time to think

580
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:40,360
about my plans.

581
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:41,360
Exactly.

582
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:42,440
Yeah, absolutely.

583
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:43,960
So the two hit the pavement.

584
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,360
They started recruiting people.

585
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,800
They approached people with pamphlets and offered anyone who would want to join a chance

586
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,600
to reach quote, the next level.

587
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,200
Freezing it almost like it was an experiment.

588
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,320
I was like, well, you have nothing to lose because if it doesn't happen, like whatever,

589
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,760
you know, but like also spaceship ride for free.

590
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,360
I think you lose, but you're a fucking sanity in your life.

591
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,920
Well, so the two approached this like kind of like they were sci-fi nerds.

592
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,320
And this is also a really big thing in the 1970s.

593
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,880
Things like Star Trek, Star Wars, Dark Star.

594
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,440
I totally forgot how much I love the movie Dark Star.

595
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,560
If Movication Guys are listening, please do an episode on Dark Star.

596
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,560
That movie is so cool.

597
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,160
I can't say I've seen it.

598
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:26,160
It's awesome.

599
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,200
And it's just a bunch of dudes with big beards.

600
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,440
It's like Duck Dynasty meets Star Wars or what?

601
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,440
Yeah, kind of.

602
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,840
They all have these really big beards.

603
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:41,560
So everything about space was super intriguing at this point of our culture society and also

604
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,360
just counterculture in general.

605
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:44,360
Yeah.

606
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,760
So I can see how people would be kind of gravitating towards that.

607
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,760
Yeah.

608
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,840
It probably thought it was like a little club, you know, where we just sit around and a little

609
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:54,840
club.

610
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:55,840
A little club.

611
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,960
We just eat our flying saucer, double-dags.

612
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720
And just don't drink the flavorade.

613
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,280
In 1975, the two had about 30 followers and they traveled to California to continue to

614
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:11,520
grow.

615
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,560
At this time, the two began calling each other Bo and Peep in reference to the fact that

616
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:22,000
they considered them their followers a flock of sheep and they were the shepherds.

617
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,200
Oh my god.

618
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,080
Oh my god.

619
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:32,000
So as they coached the flock in preparation for the next level, Bo would preach that renouncing

620
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,160
all earthly desires was a necessary step in order to be accepted on the ship.

621
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,160
So what do you do?

622
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:42,680
You get there and starve to death and renounce everything on earth, all the desires.

623
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,680
Yeah.

624
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,680
What if I have to pee?

625
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:45,680
That's a desire.

626
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:46,680
You can go to the bathroom.

627
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,560
I can't do that.

628
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:59,000
No drugs, no alcohol, no jewelry, no media, no facial hair, no sexuality, no friends,

629
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,000
no family.

630
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000
I'm out.

631
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,000
You lost me at facial hair.

632
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,000
You lost my school and TQ.

633
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,000
You lost me at alcohol.

634
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,000
That's only the second one.

635
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,000
I'm just kidding.

636
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,000
I'm just kidding.

637
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,280
Oh, okay.

638
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,160
So did people leave after this?

639
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:18,320
Bo insisted that almost also have biblical names, but ending with Audi.

640
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,280
So like Leviticus would be Levati or James would be Jamati.

641
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,280
I'm not even kidding.

642
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:26,280
Why?

643
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:27,280
Why?

644
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,280
I don't know.

645
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:29,280
He insisted.

646
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,800
Bo insisted that they all change their names to something that was uniform.

647
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:33,800
Audi?

648
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:34,800
Yeah.

649
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,800
That's really Audi.

650
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,480
I'm so funny.

651
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,080
Around this time, the group also began calling themselves Heaven's Gate.

652
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,680
So I'm sure everybody knows a little bit or at least has heard something about Heaven's

653
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,680
Gate.

654
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,960
In late 1975, although the group was traveling from place to place, campsites and such, Bo

655
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,760
would say that there would be no more public meetings.

656
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,280
They couldn't have public meetings out in an open space.

657
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:08,000
So around this time, the group would rent houses, spending some time in Denver and some

658
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,000
time in Dallas.

659
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:15,320
So they were renting these big home properties and they began to grow and grow.

660
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,040
Bo was convinced that heat and peep would be assassinated at some point.

661
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:26,060
So it gave another reason to not be out in the world and begin to isolate these people.

662
00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:30,640
After some time, the media got wind of this cult-like group traveling about talking about

663
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,800
aliens and UFOs.

664
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,400
Bo claimed that this was the assassination that he prophesied.

665
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,400
What?

666
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,200
He was like, oh, slander, slander.

667
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:46,560
You assassinated my character because the prophecy wasn't coming true.

668
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,920
On other occasions, the two gathered their followers in a field claiming that their

669
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:56,800
higher ups would appear in the sky to send them a message.

670
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,320
After a few hours of standing around, peep said, you're going to be out.

671
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,920
Peep said she had received a message that the visit was a test to test everybody's devotion.

672
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:06,920
Yes.

673
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:07,920
Oh my god.

674
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,920
And people were like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.

675
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:10,920
Yeah.

676
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:11,920
Oh wait, actually that does make sense.

677
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,520
Oh thank god I passed that test.

678
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,200
Because I was there, standing in the field for hours.

679
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,200
No peeing.

680
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,880
No alcohol.

681
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,640
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691
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692
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:11,320
So the group was essentially becoming isolated from friends and family, and Bo and Peep didn't

693
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,680
allow outside communication to anybody.

694
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:20,360
Some followers would leave, but oftentimes return, saying that they had never had, you

695
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,440
know, self-worth more than inside the group.

696
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:33,520
Just like that really do have a way of making you feel special and needed in that area.

697
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:38,080
Bo had an open door policy for any issues that the members wanted to express to him,

698
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,840
but encouraged the members not to discuss their qualms with other members, not only

699
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,680
to keep control of what was being said, you know what I mean?

700
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,640
Because if all the problems come to him, he knows how to fix it before it reaches anybody

701
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,120
else, which is really calculated.

702
00:31:53,120 --> 00:32:00,560
It was also in this kind of weird way to not incite an uprising as well, because if

703
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:06,160
you're talking to someone, you know, and everybody kind of comes to this agreement that they're

704
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,920
going to overtake him or overthrow him or whatever.

705
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:14,040
Yeah, no, that's definitely seems like something that would go on in the group like that.

706
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,840
By 1980, there were over 80 members in the group, and after multiple attempts by family

707
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,080
members to contact their loved ones, Bo did allow some of them to come visit their families

708
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:24,960
on Mother's Day of 1980.

709
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,520
But it had to be on the property with his supervision.

710
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,040
Yes, of course.

711
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:34,840
And I think it was also so that the family members didn't call the cops for well-being

712
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:35,840
checks and stuff.

713
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,320
No, yeah, for sure, but also he probably put on a facade like, oh look, it's like a cool

714
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,320
little community.

715
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,160
We're all hanging out here, everyone's happy.

716
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,400
The group were instructed to tell their families that they were pursuing careers in mechanics

717
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,840
and that they were safe and secure in their religion.

718
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,720
Most of the group were actually encouraged to work on mechanics and computers since that

719
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,000
would be one of the only remaining jobs on the next level.

720
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,000
Wow.

721
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Yeah.

722
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:05,080
By this point, Bo and Peep started going by Doe and Tee.

723
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,400
Why do they keep changing their fucking names?

724
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,200
Which is apparently completely random.

725
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,480
That apparently was no meaning behind it, they just changed their names.

726
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,640
It just rhymes with their previous names.

727
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,680
Doe, a deer, a female deer.

728
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,120
Yeah, they used to sing that all the time too.

729
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,120
Oh god.

730
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,120
Isn't that terrifying?

731
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,120
The sound of horror.

732
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,440
Which was, yeah, like I said, completely random on the names.

733
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,400
They probably claimed that it was like passed down.

734
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,120
Like, oh, I don't know, it just came to me.

735
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,120
Divine gift from God.

736
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,120
Yeah.

737
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:40,360
In 1983, Tee expressed to Doe that she had been sick for some time.

738
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,920
Tee had suffered from cancer and can no longer hide the fact that she was going to go through

739
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:49,320
emergency surgery, which actually removed one of her eyes that was damaged by cancer.

740
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:54,480
Wouldn't that be against the rules though, to have surgery or to have medical help?

741
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:55,480
Medical intervention?

742
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,480
I don't know.

743
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,640
Well, they do believe in science.

744
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,640
That's true.

745
00:33:58,640 --> 00:33:59,640
Yeah.

746
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,400
This goes against all things that they preached because Doe and Tee were supposed to join

747
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,200
the group at the same time on the next level.

748
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,760
Tee believed in Doe and she believed that when he said that it was impossible for her

749
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,480
to die, she believed him.

750
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:18,840
She cursed the doctors when they suggested that she only had a year or so to live.

751
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:23,440
Bonnie Lunettles would pass on June 19th, 1985, just two years later.

752
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Oh no.

753
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,920
Doe preached to the group that Tee had left her broken vessel behind and was already promoted

754
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:35,560
to the next level and that their duty was to stay behind so that they could eventually

755
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:41,040
be reunited with Tee because Tee was helping from the other side, like the next level.

756
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,000
He just had to think on his feet and say something because he didn't know how to explain

757
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,720
away her death.

758
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:47,720
Yes.

759
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:48,920
So, he was complicating things for Doe.

760
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,840
He also had to explain why Tee didn't hop on a spaceship and go to the next level.

761
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,840
Because that's what they've been saying, like we're going to board this spaceship

762
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,000
and we're going to leave together.

763
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:04,720
Doe claimed that Earth bodies are different from space bodies, so Tee left hers behind

764
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:09,680
and gained a new one that is more acclimated to the ship and that all of the followers

765
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,360
would also receive new bodies, essentially a resurrection.

766
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,880
Oh no.

767
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,480
That's like giving way for them to all be willing to die.

768
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:21,480
It's awful.

769
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,680
Oh, that's fucking terrible.

770
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,320
I think the saddest fact about Tee's passing is that almost nine or ten months later,

771
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,840
Tee's daughter came looking for her mother, had no idea that she had passed away.

772
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,720
And Doe, unfortunately, had to break the news to her, which is awful.

773
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:39,920
Yeah, he couldn't fucking say anything when it did happen.

774
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,080
Because this is like years later after she abandoned her family.

775
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,080
Yeah.

776
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,600
Oh my god.

777
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:53,640
Doe, of course, became very depressed that Tee was his sole partner.

778
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Tee's death triggered something in him and he began having marriage ceremonies with his

779
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:07,160
followers of any gender and started using he-him pronouns when referring to Tee because he

780
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,720
believed that she was the father of God.

781
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:11,840
Okay.

782
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:19,400
So Tee was, I'm assuming that they were saying that Tee's body, although maybe indicative

783
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:25,200
of female anatomy, was a vessel for the father of God.

784
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,920
And so when he referred to Tee, he referred to her as he.

785
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:30,920
It's just getting worse.

786
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:31,920
Yeah.

787
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,080
It's like, but again, they're eating it up.

788
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,280
They trust him so much.

789
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,360
They're just believing him.

790
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,160
Doe began to become increasingly paranoid of government involvement and paranoid of the

791
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,520
people around him as well.

792
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,160
So further isolating, like further isolating himself and others.

793
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:55,920
He felt that outsiders were controlled by Lucifer and constantly talked about the apocalypse.

794
00:36:55,920 --> 00:37:01,360
So throughout the 1980s, there were multiple alien abduction claims, which Doe felt like

795
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,880
this was proof that there is more followers around the globe that are also going to the

796
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,440
next level.

797
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,440
Okay.

798
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,440
Right?

799
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:10,440
Does that make sense?

800
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,240
I mean, no, but yes.

801
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:17,760
If further convinced others that they too would also be called up to the next level as well.

802
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:22,880
I just, I wouldn't be in a situation like this in the first place.

803
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,960
However, I would probably be like, so why has it been taking so long for us to get there?

804
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,080
If you keep saying this and it's happening to everyone else, what are we doing wrong

805
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,360
that we haven't been able to get there?

806
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,760
So the group actually fell off the map for quite a few years and by 1988, the group's

807
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,640
peak was actually at 200 members.

808
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,480
So they gained quite a bit of following, right?

809
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:48,040
During this quiet period, Doe found a doctor that was willing to perform a mass castration

810
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,560
of the members who chose to participate.

811
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:51,560
What?

812
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:52,560
Yeah.

813
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,080
Was he a veterinarian or was he like an actual human doctor?

814
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,760
Because I feel like that's what veterinarians do, not actual human doctors.

815
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:00,760
Maybe HH.

816
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,440
God, that's fucking bonkers.

817
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:10,160
From all accounts, I'm pretty sure only seven to nine people participated though.

818
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,520
That's still like almost a dozen people.

819
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,440
That's wild.

820
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,680
It was suggested by Doe as a form of proving you'd leave your earthly desires behind and

821
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:21,680
assign a commitment to the group's ideals.

822
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,040
But if they were already abstaining from sex, why do they have to be on the group?

823
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,040
Maybe some couldn't.

824
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,520
Maybe that's those are the people that said that they would, you know, is that they still

825
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,200
felt like they had this and if they couldn't perform anymore or whatever, then maybe they

826
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,120
wouldn't feel that way.

827
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,120
Yeah.

828
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,400
Doe himself was also castrated.

829
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,240
Doe said that the next level beings do not have genders in originitalia and that to castrate

830
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:50,000
yourself would make you one step closer to being like them.

831
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,800
Just getting acclimated to your next level body, right?

832
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:53,800
Yeah.

833
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:55,800
Well, not yeah, like I understand, but yes.

834
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,800
Yeah.

835
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,800
I totally get that.

836
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,600
I hear what you're saying.

837
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,360
Like previously mentioned, the group wasn't allowed to consume any media of any kind,

838
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:08,400
but now coming into the 90s, the internet was becoming a thing and public access cable

839
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,800
TV was also a thing.

840
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:17,200
So Doe would actually preach on public access television and some of these, some of this

841
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,920
footage would later become infamous footage.

842
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,720
Doe would often have the group video record their experiences while preparing for the

843
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:29,800
next level, which included shaving their heads and bodies, dressing the same as they wanted

844
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,360
to look more androgynous.

845
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,760
After criticism was thrown their way, several members did leave the group and the numbers

846
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:42,320
actually plummeted all the way down to just 26 members in a few years since the castration

847
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:43,320
stuff.

848
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,360
Well, but what did he not like do anything?

849
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,800
Like when people left, he just like let them leave.

850
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:49,800
Yeah.

851
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:50,800
Or he didn't try to like backlash.

852
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:51,800
Right.

853
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,800
Exactly.

854
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,880
And then when they came back, they were received with open arms.

855
00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,280
They didn't, there was no, it was just like, you know, oh look, there's Lavi, Lottie Dolly

856
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,280
or whatever it is.

857
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,280
I just feel like, yeah, I just feel like that's kind of different than what I would assume

858
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,920
would happen is like I would feel like he would be like mad that someone would leave

859
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,640
and then try to like re recruit them or not allow them to leave or something like that.

860
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,600
Because then they would reveal the secrets of the, of the group to other people on the

861
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,600
outside or whatever.

862
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:20,600
Yeah.

863
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,880
And really, it wasn't more that they were trying to keep their religion privatized.

864
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,280
I think it was more like, A, he was paranoid.

865
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,600
He didn't want to be around people.

866
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,800
B, their recruiting style was more like one-on-one face-to-face.

867
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:40,320
And I think that the preaching part of it was like once you were accepted into this piece

868
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,240
of land or whatever, I don't think that he was really terrified of anybody going around

869
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:45,640
talking about their religion.

870
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:46,640
I think that he wanted to do that.

871
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:48,400
He didn't think he was doing anything wrong.

872
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:49,400
Right.

873
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,400
Okay.

874
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,080
So there was a part of him that genuinely cared about people in a weird way.

875
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,360
And having people pay attention to him and listen to him, you know, preach.

876
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,840
And I think that's what gave him power, whether it was one person or 25 people or 200 people.

877
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,440
They also moved around a lot.

878
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:10,160
So I'm sure there's plenty of times where followers just did not follow them.

879
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:15,640
In 1995, Doe learned that the Hail Buck Comet was to pass in 1997.

880
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,480
And this was a sign to him that this would become the vessel carrying the next level

881
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,480
ship.

882
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,480
Oh, great.

883
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:27,800
Doe, becoming older and fearful of being sick of cancer himself, looked to settle down

884
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,520
somewhere and purchased a compound in New Mexico, although it was more like a piece of land

885
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,040
that they tried to like make shacks at.

886
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:36,840
And it didn't work out.

887
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,200
They lived there for about a year.

888
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,400
And during this time, Doe began preaching how he now realized the only way out of their

889
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,880
human forms was to commit suicide.

890
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,280
Oh, my gosh.

891
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:52,280
He further explained to the group that when Hail Buck Comet were to pass is when they

892
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,320
needed to board the vessel onto the comet to achieve the next level.

893
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,080
The group would then move one more time to San Diego, California.

894
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:06,080
Doe began his final recordings of the group on March 19, 1997.

895
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:11,000
Doe began to explain all of the intent behind what was to come.

896
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,880
He talked about their beliefs and provided what he claimed to be proof that this is the

897
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,200
only way for the group to make it onto the next level ship.

898
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,760
On March 20, Doe allowed his 38 followers that agreed to take their lives to say goodbye

899
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,600
to their families through a video recording.

900
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,800
Most of the group described their long-awaited journey, saying that they hated Earth and

901
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,160
that they could not wait for the next step in their life.

902
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,760
Mostly they never shed a tear.

903
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,560
They were genuinely excited to exit Earth is what they would say.

904
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:47,320
On March 21st, the group gathered one last time to enjoy a meal together.

905
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:51,480
They ate turkey pot pie, cheesecake with blueberries, and drink tea.

906
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:52,480
Yum.

907
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,480
That's like my kind of meal.

908
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,520
That sounds good, right?

909
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,560
On March 22nd, the group began to take their lives.

910
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:01,640
And I won't say it here.

911
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,960
If you want to look up the method, you more than welcome to just go Google it.

912
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:09,720
It's on Wikipedia, but just for respect, I'm just not even going to put this in there.

913
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:11,000
It doesn't matter.

914
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,400
But essentially they overdosed.

915
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,560
One by one, as the members began to pass, others who were tasked with caring for the

916
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,560
bodies afterwards would hide their face in purple coverings, place a coin bag with some

917
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,320
money in it, and a form of ID next to each body.

918
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:33,960
The money was $5.25, which was said to have referenced Mark Twain's Captain Stormfield's

919
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:42,160
Visit to Heaven, where he wrote that quote, to hitch a ride on a comet costs $5.75.

920
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:47,160
The group was given patches that adorn their uniforms, saying, quote, Heaven's Gate away

921
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,440
team on it.

922
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,800
They most notably worn Nike sneakers.

923
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:52,800
Everybody knows that.

924
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:54,800
I don't know that.

925
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,280
They all wore Nike sneakers.

926
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:57,280
Yeah.

927
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,080
And they were a very specific type of Nike sneakers.

928
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,600
I don't even know.

929
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:06,920
Apparently they were cheap and comfortable, and that's according to Doe.

930
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,640
It would be another four days before an anonymous caller asked for a welfare check on the grounds

931
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,680
of the group's house.

932
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,520
There on March 26, the bodies were discovered.

933
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,720
39 members, including Marshall Applewhite, were found dead.

934
00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:21,720
Oh my God.

935
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:27,320
21 women, 18 men, aged between 26 and 72.

936
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,520
So I'm going to list a few of these.

937
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,600
There's only 31 listed here, and the others either have probably not been identified or

938
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,600
have not been released.

939
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,640
Judith Rowland, 50.

940
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,400
Cheryl Butcher, 32.

941
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,720
David Van Cendron, 48.

942
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:43,800
Alan Bowers, 45.

943
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,840
Margaret Bull, 54.

944
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,080
Alfonso Foster, 44.

945
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,120
David Moore, 40.

946
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,960
Julie Lamontogne, 45.

947
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,480
Darwin Lee Johnson, 42.

948
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,800
Robert Arrencio, 45.

949
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,840
Gary Jordan St. Louis, 43.

950
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,080
Ladonna Bregato, 40.

951
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,640
Joel Peter McCormick, 28.

952
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,000
Gail Mater, 27.

953
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,720
Thomas Nichols, 58.

954
00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:15,080
John Craig, 62.

955
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,560
Margaret Richter, 46.

956
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,560
Susan Elizabeth Nora Paup, 53.

957
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,520
Michael Barr Sando, 25.

958
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,080
Norma Jean Nelson, 59.

959
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,440
Susan Cook, 54.

960
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,200
Jacqueline Leonard, 72.

961
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,640
Susan Strom, 44.

962
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,360
Yoram McCurdy Hill, 38.

963
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:40,240
Denise J. Thurman, 44.

964
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:42,600
Linlee Earhart, 41.

965
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,000
Jeffrey Howard Lewis, 41.

966
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,360
Erica Ernst, 40.

967
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,760
Lucy Eva Pechow, 63.

968
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,680
And Joyce Scala, 58.

969
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,920
Damn.

970
00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,240
So Nichelle Nichols' brother, who was Thomas Nichols.

971
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:02,440
I had mentioned Thomas Nichols.

972
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,560
He passed at 58.

973
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,200
Nichelle Nichols is actually an actress

974
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,720
from the original Star Trek.

975
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:10,360
Oh, really?

976
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,880
So that was her brother that passed,

977
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,240
which is pretty interesting given that this is all sci-fi.

978
00:46:17,240 --> 00:46:18,600
Well, you know what's interesting to me

979
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,600
is that when you think of a cult and people that

980
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,960
are able to become brainwashed to the point

981
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,200
where they are willingly committing suicide,

982
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,080
I would immediately assume that they would be younger people,

983
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,520
like maybe late teens, early 20s.

984
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,240
And most of the people that you read were in their 40s and 50s

985
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:39,920
even older.

986
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,320
That's really surprising to me that people of that age,

987
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,280
I know you said one person was 72,

988
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,880
are able to become brainwashed like that.

989
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,160
Because again, I would think of that as not fully developed

990
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,240
brain behavior.

991
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:57,880
My point in saying that is that shows how convincing,

992
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,000
how manipulative, how calculated this man was.

993
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:01,640
Right.

994
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,760
Applewhite was 65, though.

995
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:04,280
Yeah.

996
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,000
So yeah.

997
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,360
It's just, yeah, it was an older bunch.

998
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:10,080
I don't know why.

999
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,040
I don't know why, sci-fi stuff.

1000
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:12,760
I'm not sure.

1001
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,280
But I mean, then again, they were following him for many years.

1002
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,560
So maybe they were much younger when they first met him.

1003
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,600
And then they just formed this bond.

1004
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,920
And you know, it's true.

1005
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:22,680
Wow.

1006
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,600
This was the largest mass suicide involving American citizens

1007
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:31,400
since Jonestown in 1978, which claimed 913 people.

1008
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:32,200
Holy shit.

1009
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:33,840
I didn't realize it was that many.

1010
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:35,800
It was a lot.

1011
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,360
But they didn't do it willingly.

1012
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,200
No, they did.

1013
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:38,840
Jonestown?

1014
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,160
Yeah.

1015
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,800
I thought he'd give it to them and they didn't know.

1016
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:42,800
No, he gave it to them.

1017
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,000
And parents were feeding their babies.

1018
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:44,760
Oh, you're right.

1019
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:45,080
Yeah.

1020
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:45,640
You're right.

1021
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:47,800
Yeah, absolutely.

1022
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,560
God.

1023
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:50,720
Appleshite.

1024
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:52,920
Oh my god.

1025
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:53,640
Yeah, I mean.

1026
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,920
Appleshite was found not to be.

1027
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,600
Applewhite was found to not have been riddled with cancer

1028
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,880
upon his autopsy.

1029
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,120
He was actually found to have a coronary, bear with me,

1030
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:11,200
he was found to have coronary atherosclerosis.

1031
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:11,680
OK.

1032
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,040
Sounds nice, right?

1033
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,120
Which can cause strokes, heart disease,

1034
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:16,520
and a myriad of other issues.

1035
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,840
So he clearly knew that something was going on with his body.

1036
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:19,240
Yeah.

1037
00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:20,240
He thought he had cancer.

1038
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:21,920
He didn't.

1039
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,240
He was found in his bed.

1040
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:27,480
He was the third to last to die.

1041
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,200
So two other members were the last.

1042
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,400
Because they were probably tasked with putting stuff

1043
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:33,680
next to his head and stuff.

1044
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:34,280
Yes.

1045
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,800
And they were the only two found without purple

1046
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,400
shrouds over their heads.

1047
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,280
Various individuals that had ties to the group previously

1048
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,880
received the farewell videos and at least one media outlet.

1049
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,960
So that was purposely sent out.

1050
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,960
The videos were soon published and public knowledge.

1051
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:52,720
Oh my god.

1052
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:53,760
Like that's so awful.

1053
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,400
Imagine that being one of your family members.

1054
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,240
People all over the world can see that last moment of their life.

1055
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:03,920
And most of these people from the accounts that I read

1056
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:08,080
didn't tell some of their family members they were leaving.

1057
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,440
They just went missing one day.

1058
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,440
So to find out that one of those people that I might have listed

1059
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,520
might have been one of those people,

1060
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,600
there was one instance where I think

1061
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,080
it might have been Scala, Joyce Scala, who was a news reporter

1062
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,840
and said that she was going to go to a religious meeting

1063
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:28,600
of some kind.

1064
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,040
And she was never seen again until her passing.

1065
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,080
And she was very devout.

1066
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,320
What a helpless feeling, like being a family member

1067
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,560
of those people, especially ones that didn't know what

1068
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:40,440
was going on.

1069
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:42,520
And then literally the next thing you hear about them

1070
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:43,520
is that they're dead.

1071
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,440
That's, god, it must be such a helpless feeling.

1072
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,600
If they had just, I can't believe, I can't imagine

1073
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,640
when people felt like if they had just opened up to me

1074
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,840
about this, I might have been able to get them out of there

1075
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:54,480
or something.

1076
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,760
Marshall Applewhite was actually on the cover of Times Magazine.

1077
00:49:57,760 --> 00:49:59,880
That's how big this was.

1078
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,000
After the incident became worldwide news.

1079
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,640
This incident would claim more lives

1080
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,440
over the following few months.

1081
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,760
A 58-year-old man who was reading the news

1082
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,560
decided to take his own life in fear of missing the comet.

1083
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,280
Three or more former Heavens Gate members

1084
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,640
would also commit suicide within the following months.

1085
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:19,920
Right?

1086
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:21,120
Geez.

1087
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,440
The co-discoverer of the Hale-Bott comet, Alan Hale,

1088
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,440
said that he wasn't surprised, honestly,

1089
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,320
when the story began to break.

1090
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,920
Comets have been very powerful forces in spirituality

1091
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:32,800
since the dawn of time.

1092
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,680
People have looked up to the stars for answers

1093
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:35,840
since we could look up.

1094
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,680
And many cultures have differing ideas

1095
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,480
of what it means to see a comet.

1096
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,160
Because, I mean, let's face it, we all

1097
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,080
wish on shooting stars sometimes, right?

1098
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,600
The Hale-Bott comet was the most viewed comet in history,

1099
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,840
beating out Haley's from 1986.

1100
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:50,360
I bet.

1101
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,720
Because everyone's like, what the fuck is this comet about?

1102
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:53,920
Let's go take a look at it.

1103
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Right?

1104
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:56,360
And it's true.

1105
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,240
And the news broke before the comet, before you could see it.

1106
00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:03,160
Well, I'm sure that some people, a bunch of people, I'm sure,

1107
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,440
were like, maybe there is a spaceship on the comet.

1108
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,520
Maybe we should watch it and see if some land's anywhere.

1109
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,080
So the Hale-Bott comet was actually

1110
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,240
visible without the use of a telescope for up to 18 months.

1111
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:17,800
That's how massive this thing was.

1112
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:18,560
18 months?

1113
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,280
18 months.

1114
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:21,480
How fat?

1115
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:22,720
That's what it said.

1116
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,800
That's what the word said.

1117
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,000
It's probably traveling fast as fuck,

1118
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,320
but you can't see it traveling fast as fuck

1119
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:30,360
because you're so far away.

1120
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,480
And it was also so big as the whole thing of it.

1121
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:34,120
Right?

1122
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:35,600
That's what it was.

1123
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,120
The Heavens Gate Colt ran for 22 years

1124
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,160
and essentially absolved and did obscurity after the suicides.

1125
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,080
Not very many people followed.

1126
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:45,320
Yeah.

1127
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,280
Many people believe that Marshall Applewhite

1128
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,480
is a murderer for brainwashing the group

1129
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,800
and that they were victims of wanting to feel like they belong

1130
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,600
to something great.

1131
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,800
Marshall Applewhite was never diagnosed with anything

1132
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,240
necessarily, but the paranoia and mania

1133
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:01,240
that he experienced may have come from schizophrenia.

1134
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:02,280
I agree.

1135
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,280
To me, the most obvious issue that hurt Marshall the most

1136
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,960
was how his sexual orientation was repressed.

1137
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,200
His entire life.

1138
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,160
And he never really felt like he could be himself.

1139
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,520
And then when Bonnie came along, she kind of

1140
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:15,320
helped support him in his sexuality.

1141
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,280
However, he identified was accepted.

1142
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,080
And they fed off of each other for that.

1143
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,040
Today, there are about 2,500 to 3,000 cults

1144
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,240
in the United States today.

1145
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:28,000
Really?

1146
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:28,720
Not even kidding.

1147
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:30,560
Although some of them can be very small, right?

1148
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:31,760
Yeah.

1149
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,920
And in the 70s, it was very common to have communes

1150
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,160
and live off the land and stuff.

1151
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,520
And then we also talked about the fact that counterculture

1152
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:39,920
was also very big.

1153
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:41,120
Yeah.

1154
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,760
Yeah, it was kind of grand enough for that to happen,

1155
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,040
that people would just go off on these little cliques

1156
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,840
and create their own little communities.

1157
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,000
Part of the reason that someone might be drawn to Heaven's

1158
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,520
Gate wasn't just the space exploration thing,

1159
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,800
but that Marshall and Bonnie adopted a lot of beliefs

1160
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,760
from other cultures that kind of commingled with science.

1161
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,960
So a lot of Westernized culture stuff, too.

1162
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,200
It was kind of a wide nut that they casted.

1163
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,520
And although they kind of fumbled with a lot of the details,

1164
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,760
I think that most everyone participated,

1165
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,480
had to have had at least one or two things they were attracted

1166
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:11,760
to.

1167
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,640
Yeah, they can relate to something.

1168
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:14,600
Right.

1169
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,200
Another thing is that when they recruited,

1170
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,240
like we mentioned earlier, they would recruit one-on-one.

1171
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:23,480
So it wasn't just out of dough and tea's mouth.

1172
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,640
It was out of everybody else's.

1173
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:30,160
So like I said, the greatest comparison you can have

1174
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,400
is Christianity.

1175
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:32,680
It's by word of mouth.

1176
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,280
You don't necessarily have to go listen to a minister,

1177
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,560
preacher talk about the Bible in order for somebody

1178
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,280
to approach you and talk to you about the Bible.

1179
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,880
And so I think that's another reason why it grew

1180
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,800
and why it was so intriguing to people.

1181
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,800
And it would really grasp people.

1182
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,480
Yeah, definitely.

1183
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,680
I think another thing that people really adhered to

1184
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,360
is the fact that they grew so quickly over such a short amount

1185
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,520
of time with just that face-to-face.

1186
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:02,840
Well, definitely.

1187
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,520
People want what other people have.

1188
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:05,400
People want to be included.

1189
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,800
They want to be a part of things.

1190
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,400
That's the scary thing about cult especially when you're so young.

1191
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,600
And I mean, I know those of these people were older,

1192
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,840
but you don't know how young they were when they started

1193
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:15,960
following him.

1194
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,200
It was 22 years.

1195
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:20,320
Those people that were in their 40s or in their 20s when they

1196
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,080
might have joined.

1197
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,520
And being at such a young, influential age,

1198
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,280
I mean, it just reminds me of like Charlie Manson.

1199
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,200
A lot of his followers were young women.

1200
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:33,080
And really influential age.

1201
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,440
And you're listening to someone that is a little bit older than you.

1202
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,360
So they're already more wise in your eyes.

1203
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,840
And you're really at an age where you want to do your own thing.

1204
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,160
You want to think for yourself.

1205
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:46,880
And people like that can make you think that you're thinking

1206
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:48,080
for yourself.

1207
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:49,920
This is your idealizations.

1208
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,440
You're making this choice for yourself.

1209
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,440
And in reality, they're controlling the way that you think.

1210
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,680
And you don't even realize it until you're completely brainwashed.

1211
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:58,320
I agree with that.

1212
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:03,400
Yeah, Doe definitely had this sense of you're in control.

1213
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,360
You're totally in control of this whole situation here.

1214
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,000
I just have a few requests.

1215
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:12,720
And people honor that because they are enjoying this.

1216
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:16,360
In this specific case, they're enjoying this thought of, man,

1217
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,240
like when I get to this next level,

1218
00:55:19,240 --> 00:55:21,080
I'm going to have everything I want.

1219
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:22,920
And this is my choice to make.

1220
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:24,120
I can leave whenever I want.

1221
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:25,280
I can come back whenever I want.

1222
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:26,560
And I will still be accepted.

1223
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:27,680
Exactly.

1224
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,200
And that's the thing.

1225
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:30,440
I'm not really sure.

1226
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:31,960
And I don't know how you feel about it.

1227
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:36,440
But I'm not really sure that he was a cold, blooded killer.

1228
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,000
I think that he was really misguided and really let down

1229
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:40,680
as a child.

1230
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:45,840
And he wanted to control his choices.

1231
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,280
In turn, he wanted to let others control their choices.

1232
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,240
But I think he also wanted in the back of his mind

1233
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:51,680
to control others.

1234
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,280
And he was clearly mentally ill.

1235
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:55,480
He was sick.

1236
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,600
So that's why he was having all these paranoias, delusions,

1237
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:00,160
hearing the voices and stuff like that.

1238
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,600
And unfortunately, that led into his group

1239
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,120
that he decided to make.

1240
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,520
And I truly believe that he wanted to kill himself.

1241
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,080
And he was willing to let a lot of other people do it as well.

1242
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:13,400
For sure.

1243
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,360
I don't think that he wanted to kill other people

1244
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:17,480
for that satisfaction.

1245
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:18,520
I think he wanted to die.

1246
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,080
And he wanted other people to die with him.

1247
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:20,600
I agree.

1248
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:21,880
Or as well, if they wanted to.

1249
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:22,280
Right.

1250
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,440
And especially talking about the sexual and the repression

1251
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:30,960
of sexual orientation, him growing up, thinking that, OK,

1252
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:36,720
I'm not going to be praised for being gay or however

1253
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:37,760
you identified.

1254
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:39,040
I'm not going to be praised for that.

1255
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,440
But what I will be praised for is preaching.

1256
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,440
And what I will be praised for is teaching and guiding.

1257
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,040
And so I think, especially when it comes down

1258
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,280
to the castration, clearly that's something

1259
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,480
that he experienced because he couldn't get over

1260
00:56:55,480 --> 00:57:00,360
however he felt this repression of a sexual orientation.

1261
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,600
And through that, people are like, oh, well,

1262
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,160
I'm dealing with those same problems.

1263
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:06,680
Or I'm struggling with that as well.

1264
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,120
So you have support in me.

1265
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:08,400
Yeah.

1266
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,200
They can identify with each other.

1267
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,240
But definitely an interesting thought.

1268
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:13,480
Yeah.

1269
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,680
That's a really sad story.

1270
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:17,160
It is.

1271
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,800
It's a lot of tragedy, my bad, y'all.

1272
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:19,120
No.

1273
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,200
Definitely really different than anything we've ever done.

1274
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,320
I mean, that's, and that can be perceived multiple ways.

1275
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,440
You know, some people might hear that and think,

1276
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:27,240
he's not a killer.

1277
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,000
You know, everyone had their free will and their choice.

1278
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,920
Some people will think that he's a monster.

1279
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,800
So but I think it's definitely fits the theme of our podcast

1280
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,240
because he was clearly mentally ill.

1281
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:39,760
And he did, he did unfortunately cause, I think,

1282
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:41,080
caused the deaths of other people.

1283
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:42,320
Yeah, absolutely.

1284
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,120
With his manipulation tactics.

1285
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,240
And again, that schizophrenia hits right at that age,

1286
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,120
especially after the loss of his father.

1287
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,520
You know, he felt like he had a mental breakdown

1288
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:54,640
and that's why he went into the,

1289
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:55,920
you want to say, mental break?

1290
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:58,440
No, I just wanted to go, brrrch.

1291
00:57:58,440 --> 00:57:59,080
Sorry.

1292
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:00,800
But he did, I think that he felt like he was having

1293
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:01,560
a mental breakdown.

1294
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,680
And then here comes Bonnie, willing to give him anything

1295
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:05,720
and everything that he needs.

1296
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:05,960
Yeah, definitely.

1297
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:09,880
As far as cultivating what he wanted to create for himself.

1298
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:10,840
Definitely.

1299
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:11,440
So.

1300
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:12,080
Definitely.

1301
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:12,800
Interesting.

1302
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:14,680
Well, thanks for bringing that case.

1303
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:15,200
Yeah.

1304
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,200
That was really great.

1305
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:18,880
You guys, if you'd like, can follow us on social media,

1306
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:20,120
anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer.

1307
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,720
Twitter is at Killer Diagnosis.

1308
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:23,360
We do have a Patreon as well.

1309
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:25,440
That is going to be on our website when that does launch.

1310
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,640
And we'll keep you guys posted on that.

1311
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,200
The True Crime and Paranormal Podcast Festival is in August.

1312
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:32,320
You have until then to get your tickets.

1313
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,320
I would recommend just getting them early,

1314
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,200
because I don't know how, I'm sure they will sell out

1315
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:37,800
at some point.

1316
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:38,400
Yeah.

1317
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,360
So, better safe than not to be able to get one.

1318
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,360
And yeah, thank you guys so much for the support.

1319
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,880
We'll be back on Monday with another mental breakdown.

1320
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,720
And I was actually going to tell you,

1321
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:51,800
we need to get my case recorded as well,

1322
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,560
because I'm going out of town this weekend.

1323
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,200
And I'm going, we're going to be gone all week.

1324
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:56,920
So we're not going to have time to record.

1325
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:57,920
Shit.

1326
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,920
But we'll make sure to get that out for you guys as well

1327
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:02,320
next Thursday.

1328
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:03,240
And yeah.

1329
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:04,240
Yeah.

1330
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,560
No, I'm good.

1331
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:06,040
All right.

1332
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:07,320
We'll talk to you guys later.

1333
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:08,080
Love you.

1334
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:08,580
Bye.

1335
00:59:08,580 --> 00:59:09,080
Love you.

1336
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:09,580
Bye.

1337
00:59:09,580 --> 00:59:18,040
You already know that craft beers have been exploding in popularity over the past decade.

1338
00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:21,640
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1339
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,440
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1340
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1341
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:33,920
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1342
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1343
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1344
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1345
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1346
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Here at Craft Beer Club today.