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Hello. Hello.

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Oh.

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Bruce from Hollywood.

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Hello. Hello.

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It's all sultry.

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I'm Koelle. And I'm Kenna.

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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The mental breakdown.

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The minty breaky.

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Yes.

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I'm excited.

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I'm excited too.

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So I've been watching recently this YouTube channel and they kind of dissect the way that people like speak or hold themselves like behavioral analysis.

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Okay.

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And they're really, really interesting. They're called behavior, behavior panel. They're a lot of fun to watch.

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Anyways, they did one on Richard Ramirez and there was this really creepy quote that I kind of just want to like throw out there.

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So the interviewer says, you've now entered a very rare group of people in this country.

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You're in the ranks with Charlie Manson and Ted Bundy.

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You claim you didn't commit these murders, but you're right there now as far as everyone else is concerned.

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Richard says, serial killers do on a small scale what governments do on a large one.

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They are the product of the times and these are bloodthirsty times.

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Even psychopaths have emotions if you dig deep enough. But then again, maybe they don't.

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The interviewer asks, do you have emotions Richard?

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He says, no comment.

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He said no comment.

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He said no comment.

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Do you think he was like intentionally trying to be creepy or do you think he was just being himself and it was actually creepy?

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Well, I think it was a little bit of both because that's what makes him so interesting is that he's obsessed with this idea of making people feel uncomfortable.

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He enjoys that. That's what gets him off. That's what he likes is to make, I mean, he's the night stalker.

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You know, I mean, that's what he does. He prays upon people in the middle of the night.

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It's unnerving.

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And I think that it is, you know, he's a little obsessed about cult things and the creepier the better, for sure.

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Yeah, but I mean, even the interviewer was like, you don't have to read from that piece of paper because he brought a piece of paper and wrote down all these specific things that he wanted to say.

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Because he can't have an original thought or just like talk to someone normally in a regular conversation.

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He has to like have notes about like how creepy he can be.

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And yeah, exactly like, oh, that's so good. That's going to creep someone out.

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It's like a comedian writing his punchlines.

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Yeah, exactly.

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It's all a joke.

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And one very real moment his face kind of drops and he says, I gave up on love a long time ago.

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And I think like there in that moment and even the behavior panel talks about how it's a very rare real moment because his face is laxed.

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It's not creepily smiling or whatever. And I think he really, really feels that way that he was let down his whole life, which he was.

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That's really sad. Yeah. It's almost like, you know, you get glimpses of people, especially now when courts are able to be video recorded, you know, court hearings and stuff.

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But one of the earliest, one of those I would say is Ted Bundy when they were able to kind of record in the courtroom.

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And we've talked about this before, but for the listeners that maybe haven't heard me say this before.

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There's just one part of his trial where he's being walked out from the courtroom by officers and someone in the crowd like says something to him.

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And this stoic Ted that's just been like super nonchalant, super cash the whole time, completely like snaps and he looks back at her with these like black eyes.

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And she said in a later comment, that's exactly what his victims saw that that person, not the person that is trying to defend himself and is standing on the witness stand for himself.

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This guy that has those deep dark eyes, giving me that horrendous look. That's what his victims saw. And that's terrifying.

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It is. And I can snap like that.

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I don't remember who I was speaking with about this, but even like Gary Ridgway, if you look at photos of Gary Ridgway, his eyes are blue.

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He's kind of a good looking dude.

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His eyes are blue. And that young photo where he's actually smiling, you know, his eyes are blue.

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You look at the photo of him being arrested, his eyes are jet black. It is so haunting.

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It's like animalistic.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I don't know if it's the dilation of pupils or what it is, but it's absolutely consistent.

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Adrenaline or whatever makes you kind of on edge and look different. Yeah, that's because you know how different people's eyes can look when they're mad versus when they're happy.

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I don't know if you I mean, I'm sure you've had a friend that has green eyes and when they cry their eyes get like bright green.

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Like it's so cool, but it's like tennis.

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I mean, even like Casey's eyes change color when he's upset or when he's happy or whatever I've noticed.

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You see it when you see someone so often you notice.

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So the topic we're going to talk about is going to be lying.

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Oh, we're going to talk about lying.

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Okay.

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We're going to talk about the definition of lying.

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We're going to talk about some reasons people may lie.

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And we're going to talk about some ways that you can spot that through body language since I was talking about behavior panel.

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And then at the end, we're also going to talk about some diagnoses that come along with stuff like that.

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Complete side note right before we get started.

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Just reminded me when you said lying, I don't I'm really bad at lying.

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I know that you know that I don't like to lie.

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I really sometimes I will and then I'll feel so guilty about it later.

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But in a way that it helped me knowing this knowledge about lying and my psychology degree.

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And when I was working at my last job, I we did a secret Santa and I had my boss who actually also has a psychology degree.

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So I knew when he asked me if I had him, I couldn't give the tells because then he would know I was lying.

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Right.

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So I did the opposite of what you would do when you were lying and he thought I was telling the truth.

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And I was like, oh my God, I tricked him like that's I felt like I had like a superpower for a second.

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Like I didn't like to lie, of course, but it's like all fun and games.

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You want to maintain the secrecy of secret Santa.

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But for sure.

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It was just funny because you know, I'm sure you'll mention it, but there's certain tells that people give,

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especially people that are right dominant, left dominant things like that.

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But I didn't do them on purpose and he really thought I was telling the truth.

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That's really bad.

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You pass the lie detector.

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I guess I could be a good liar if I wanted to.

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But I don't know.

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I just I hate my guilty conscience.

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I feel like most people know where they stand with me.

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I feel like I don't really genuinely have to express how I'm feeling because I'm already doing it.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So yeah, if something bothers me, I will say something.

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I'll let you know.

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I think we're similar in that way.

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Like if something's bugging me, like you will know.

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If I don't like you, you will know.

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Yeah.

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So people lie just for whatever reason, right?

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Yeah.

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So a lie or lying is to make an untrue statement with the intent to deceive.

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Very important.

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Okay.

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So some of the reasons that someone would lie, right?

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First of all, to avoid being punished.

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Yeah, of course.

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So many people grow up with the intention of pleasing the closest people to us in our lives,

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namely family members.

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We have grown to learn how our future social selves will participate in the world by, you know, our surroundings.

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So this also comes with trying not to upset those that are around us, right?

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We want to have a peaceful existence, well, little.

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Yeah.

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So lying at a young age, it starts usually around three, but mostly at four.

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Okay.

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It can last all the way up to six with just, there's certain steps, essentially, like milestones.

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Lying milestones, if you will.

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And so from like four to six, it'll be things that are obviously not true.

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But this idea of theory of mind starts to develop at four, where a four-year-old is realizing other people have minds that I may or may not be able to manipulate.

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And so they start understanding this concept of, I have an internal dialogue, but so do you.

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And I want to know if I can change that or, you know, manipulate that or how can I get away with that.

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And it's not necessarily malicious.

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Theory of mind is what they call it.

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You know, around that age as well, you've, everyone's seen a little kid throw a tantrum of some sort.

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And when the parent allows it, it's almost like the child does it more because they know that they can get what they want by doing this because it's happened in the past or whatever.

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Or their parent has caved in the past or will.

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Right.

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So usually we grow out of this stage because we realize lying's not good.

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Fibbing isn't good.

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And we learn that lesson somewhere.

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Or maybe we grow independent enough to realize, like, within our true selves, like a moral compass.

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So we gain a moral compass, hopefully.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But even as adults, again, we avoid being in trouble all the time, right?

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So again, but that, that avoiding punishment comes from a very young age and we still do it as adults.

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We don't want to get punished or, yeah, cover something up or, yeah.

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Exactly.

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Or even have an argument with someone.

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Someone will ask me a question that I could answer very honestly or I could tell a little white lie just to avoid an argument later.

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Exactly.

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Or right then and there.

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I'll even ask people sometimes, like, do you want the truth or do you want me to be nice?

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What do you need from me?

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And I'm not trying to be mean, but, you know, like really quick, sorry, this girl the other day at the rodeo, it was these two girls sitting next to us.

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They both had, both had drinks.

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I think I might have told you this.

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And this girl leans over and she goes, hi, I'm sorry.

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Can I ask you a question?

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I was like, yeah, what's up?

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She goes, how old do I look?

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And I was like, do you want the truth?

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She's like, yeah.

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And I was like, 19.

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She's like, oh, shit, I'm 20.

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I was like, what are you going to go try to buy alcohol?

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That's only one year.

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And she went down there with her empty cup that her friend had bought for her and she got two fucking drinks.

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She was ballsy.

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I was like, hell yeah, girl, I'm not going to tip for you.

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But yeah, go ahead.

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So a child who continues to lie well until their teens and about serious issues, it may be a sign that the child is experiencing a conduct or oppositional defiant disorder.

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So we may also see ADHD kind of entangled with those kiddos as well.

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Either way, adults lie as a way to avoid being punished by those around us.

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And if you haven't, then you're a fucking liar.

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Oh, no.

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What was that?

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Nothing.

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Liar.

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Liar.

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Nothing.

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Just get lamp.

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Jesus.

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Shout out Brady for all the notes on our last episode.

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Get lamp.

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Nipple belt.

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Oh my God.

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So another reason that someone might lie is to obtain a reward not otherwise readily obtainable.

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Okay.

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Oh, I don't like when people do that shit.

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So who hasn't fluffed a resume though?

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I have.

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Oh please.

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I swear I have not.

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Who hasn't fluffed, you haven't fluffed.

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Because my qualifications are impressive.

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I don't need to fluff my resume.

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I fluff other things.

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Well it's like saying, you know, I'm not a janitor.

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I'm a custodial engineer.

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Things like that.

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Okay.

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That's what I'm saying.

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All right.

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So that's not readily attainable, right?

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Okay.

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Who hasn't boasted about accomplishments around the office, right?

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Even talking about their kids' successes, right?

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So these are like small examples, right?

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We also hear stories all the time about people lying to other people to get them into bed,

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right?

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That's also something that might not be readily obtainable unless you lie.

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Because in some situations if you're 16 and 19 year old doesn't want to sleep with you,

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but if you lie and say you're 18, not that I've done that, but just talking in general.

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Wow, that was just specific.

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Wow.

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Wow.

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Then they might be more willing to sleep with you.

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And I really can't stand people do that because that's like entrapment.

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Oh yeah.

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But the person that is young like really doesn't even realize the weight of what they're doing

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and the consequences for the other person.

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Right.

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I just mean in general, like just in a bar setting.

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You know, just like bragging about your job or like what you do and then like you realize

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it's all shit after the act.

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The act.

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The deed.

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So there are plenty of situations a person might lie in order to obtain something that

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they want, especially if it means that the reward that they receive induces endorphins.

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You know, lying in order to obtain sex or drugs or money, something like that.

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Something that creates the endorphins.

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True.

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Another reason somebody might lie is to protect another person from being punished.

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We see this sometimes in like false confession cases where people are willing to take the

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fall.

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I still think David Berkowitz didn't tell the full truth.

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I think that he was covering for someone for whatever reason.

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But to protect somebody, you know, another person maybe that you love, you know, you

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take the fall for them or something.

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That's always really hard to.

232
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But sometimes like I'll even put my foot down and be like, I'm not going to lie for

233
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:02,920
you.

234
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,840
Don't bring me into this and make me lie for you because I won't.

235
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,320
But sometimes I will take it upon myself to do that because it's hard.

236
00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,840
It's a situation that's difficult.

237
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,200
And I know everyone's probably experienced a situation like that.

238
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,200
Yeah.

239
00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,200
Oh yeah.

240
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,200
I remember what comes to mind is that me and a guy friend of mine, we were tagging.

241
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,600
We had spray paint and he took the fall.

242
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,560
I mean, he was painting way more.

243
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:27,640
And when the couch showed up, he was the one with the can in his hand.

244
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,400
But you know, but I mean, I still carry that with me because I mean, he had to do community

245
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,760
service and like pay a fine and like all this stuff.

246
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:35,680
And I was like, should I have just confessed?

247
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:36,680
Yeah.

248
00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:37,680
Can't do anything about it now.

249
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:38,680
Can't do anything about it now.

250
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:39,680
You should confess.

251
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:40,680
Sorry, Matt.

252
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:41,680
Oh man.

253
00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:42,680
DAK live to confession tapes.

254
00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:43,680
The confession tapes.

255
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:44,680
Damn.

256
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:45,680
It's hardcore.

257
00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:54,680
So to protect oneself from a threat of physical harm might be another reason.

258
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:55,680
Ooh.

259
00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:56,680
That's interesting.

260
00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:59,840
Which is something that, yeah, you would like one would experience in a domestic abuse

261
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:06,920
household, you would lie to that person in order to not be hit or hurt in some kind of

262
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:07,920
a way.

263
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,880
Or if you find yourself in immediate danger and you're like a single woman that's never

264
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,240
had kids, you can say like, oh, I have a family.

265
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:14,240
Like I have children.

266
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,880
They need me or whatever to save yourself from being hurt by someone.

267
00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:17,880
Oh yeah.

268
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:18,880
For sure.

269
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:19,880
Yeah.

270
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,160
They said that that's a tactic to use, I guess, during a shooting of some kind.

271
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:23,760
Oh, you definitely have to humanize yourself.

272
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:24,760
Yeah.

273
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:25,760
You talk about yourself.

274
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:26,760
Yeah.

275
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,440
I mean, I'm a very serious anatomy where Patrick Densey is about to get shot by the gunman

276
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,400
and Sarah Drew comes out and she's like, she starts naming like all of her sister's names

277
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,280
and her parents and their names and what they do.

278
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:37,280
Oh my God, it's so heartbreaking.

279
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,720
Yeah, April Kepner in the show.

280
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:40,720
She's such a good actress.

281
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:41,720
I really think she is.

282
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,600
But and then he lets her go because she humanized herself and she's literally like, that was

283
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:46,600
what I did.

284
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,040
She was like, I've always been told to make sure that they know that you're a person.

285
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,480
She's like, she literally says, I'm a person.

286
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:52,480
I'm a person.

287
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,480
Please don't shoot me.

288
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,480
Oh, I have goosebumps.

289
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:55,480
I hate that part.

290
00:14:55,480 --> 00:15:00,040
I always end up watching all the way up until right around that part.

291
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,400
And then you got to deal with a bunch of bullshit until you get to the plane crash.

292
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:08,000
But yeah, I actually just watched the most recent episode that came out.

293
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,760
I'm not going to put a spoiler out there because it's I mean, it's like it's not it's not a

294
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,120
secret that Ellen Pompeo left the show that's been like all over the internet ever.

295
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,040
But it was the most recent episode that it was the first episode that she has not been

296
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,040
in at all.

297
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,040
Yeah.

298
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,200
Her voice is still in it, but she's not in it.

299
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,200
Right.

300
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,200
And at this point, like I love the fucking show, which is why I keep watching it.

301
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,920
But like, just end it.

302
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,920
Like you don't need it.

303
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,400
It's literally they're trying to build like this whole new intern class and they're trying

304
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,480
to make like two new characters come to the forefront.

305
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:38,480
Christina was the best.

306
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:39,480
After Sandra, oh, I stopped watching.

307
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:40,480
I'm just like, I love Sandra.

308
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,480
Oh, too much.

309
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:42,480
I hated Christina, but I love Sandra.

310
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:43,480
Oh, I love Christina.

311
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:44,480
Really?

312
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:45,480
Yes.

313
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,480
Oh God, Christina is my jam.

314
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:48,480
Anyway, sorry.

315
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:49,480
We love her.

316
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:50,480
We love Grey's Anatomy.

317
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:51,480
Kate Walsh for listening.

318
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:52,480
I fucking love you.

319
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,480
Oh my God.

320
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:55,000
Have you not watched Umbrella Academy yet?

321
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,360
No, I've watched private practice though and she's been here.

322
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,960
Kate Walsh is, she's the handler.

323
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,480
You have to watch Umbrella Academy.

324
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:04,040
I'll watch it for you, Kate.

325
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,040
Seriously.

326
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,400
Kate Walsh, ugh, she's brilliant in it.

327
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,080
And Aiden Gallagher's hot.

328
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,080
These are all truths.

329
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,080
I can see that because he's 19 now.

330
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,080
These are all truths.

331
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:16,080
This is the confession taste.

332
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,080
Jeez, I know.

333
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,080
This is my confession.

334
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:24,080
So yeah, we were talking about physical abuse before all that.

335
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,080
Oh God, okay.

336
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,720
Yeah, but lying to appease someone, right, under the threat of being abused or harmed.

337
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,360
So another reason one might lie is to win the admiration of others.

338
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,320
So this feels like a narcissistic type territory, right?

339
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,360
Or dependent personality disorder.

340
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,440
So, and they're actually right next to each other in the DSM-5.

341
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,800
That's interesting that this is coming up in this mental breakdown because we just did

342
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,640
a case where someone had dependent personality disorder and it was their first one.

343
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,040
That was the Susan Smith?

344
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,400
Yeah, it was.

345
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:56,080
So with these disorders or most personality disorders, seeking approval of others is very,

346
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,840
very important to people with these disorders.

347
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,400
Yeah, for sure.

348
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:05,360
So a number six would be to get out of an awkward social situation.

349
00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:06,640
Oh, I've done that.

350
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:07,640
Me too.

351
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,080
Oh my God, I've done that.

352
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,080
I've definitely done that.

353
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,080
Absolutely.

354
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:12,880
To get out of awkward social situations?

355
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:13,880
Oh, yeah.

356
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:14,880
No, yeah.

357
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,120
Like I've had girlfriends tell me like, hey, I'm going on a date with this guy.

358
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:19,120
If it doesn't go well, I need you to call me with a fake emergency.

359
00:17:19,120 --> 00:17:22,440
And I'm like, oh my God, I need you to come here right now.

360
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:23,840
I really need your help with something.

361
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:25,920
And they're like, oh my God, and they run out of the room.

362
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,360
I need help packing up boxes because I'm moving.

363
00:17:28,360 --> 00:17:31,240
No, really, I've done that before as well.

364
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:32,880
So yeah, everyone's done it.

365
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:36,360
Or I'll pretend to be on the phone when I'm walking through a certain area because I don't

366
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,760
want to talk to someone or I don't want someone to try to talk to me.

367
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:39,760
That's a lie.

368
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:40,760
I'm not actually on the phone.

369
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,840
I'm not actually on the phone.

370
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,240
I feel like most social situations for me are awkward.

371
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,320
So it's really, it's definitely a...

372
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:51,520
Just have like all these awkward social interactions.

373
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,840
I don't know, I guess, I gotta go.

374
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:55,840
So yeah.

375
00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:01,400
Yeah, and we've all heard that like, oh yeah, like sorry, like I gotta go like from a party,

376
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,400
you know?

377
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:08,600
Yeah, I had a friend in college, but she was on the bus one time on the way home and she

378
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,520
had her headphones in and she was texting and it was like an empty bus.

379
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,880
Say it was like a late night on the way back home from school and there was like no one

380
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:17,880
on the bus.

381
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,960
She sits down and this guy gets on and he sits down right next to her.

382
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,640
It's like this whole empty bus, right?

383
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:23,640
I hate that.

384
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,760
And so she's texting her friend and she's like, and this has nothing to do with lying,

385
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,920
I guess, but she's texting her friend and she's like, oh my God, this really creepy guy

386
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,520
just sat next to me like, please have your phone on you just in case anything happens.

387
00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:41,240
And this guy leans over, pulls her headphone out of her ear and goes, I'm not creepy.

388
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:48,600
He saw her text and then he's creepily, I'm not creepy.

389
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,880
I would pull the, I just pull the lever and get off immediately like at the next stop,

390
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,120
I just be like, I gotta get out of here.

391
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:55,320
I got, I have to leave.

392
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:56,320
I have to leave.

393
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:57,320
What do you do?

394
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,320
I think she just like was like, oh sorry, like I'm sorry, like that was rude.

395
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,960
And then like she's like caught up with the next stop.

396
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,000
Oh my gosh, it's so funny.

397
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,000
I forgot about that.

398
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,000
That's awkward.

399
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,520
I was like texting someone to get out of it, that's an awkward situation, right?

400
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:13,520
So texting someone to-

401
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,080
It's weird being in New York and being on the subways because everybody is so into their

402
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,440
phone because nobody wants to like make eye contact with anybody.

403
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,080
If you make eye contact with someone, it's weird.

404
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:23,080
It's weird.

405
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:24,080
It's scary.

406
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,040
You should not make eye contact with people on a New York subway for sure.

407
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,320
I mean, if you're from New York, you're probably more like desensitized to it, but when we

408
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,440
went, it was a big culture shock because like I'm the kind of person that just talks to

409
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,920
people when we're waiting in line for like to order food.

410
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:38,800
And I tried to do that like at least twice and they just gave me the weirdest look like

411
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:39,800
I was crazy or something.

412
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:40,800
I'm like, well-

413
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,800
What's that thing that you say?

414
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,280
You said like something about kind or people in the South are kind but not nice or something?

415
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,840
People, I say, well, this is not really true everywhere, but I say like people in the South

416
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,520
are nice but they're not kind.

417
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,760
Like they'll wave to you when you walk by, but they'll ignore you if you need help.

418
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,560
People in the North are not nice, but they are kind.

419
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,200
Like they'll change your tire for you, but they won't like wave to you or like smile

420
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,200
at you when they're walking by.

421
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,040
And that's just what I've seen in my own opinion.

422
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,120
It was definitely like warming up to the people, you know?

423
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:11,040
Because I mean, as soon as we walked in that first bar, it was like talking to the bartender

424
00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:12,960
and he was like, oh, yo, what can I get you?

425
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:13,960
Like whatever.

426
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,160
And we were just like, oh, like, da, da, da, da, da, da.

427
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:18,800
And then I think you were like, is there a good place to eat around here?

428
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,760
AKA like we're tourists.

429
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,280
And he was like, oh, where are you all from?

430
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:23,280
And then you know-

431
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,280
He was like the nicest fucking dude.

432
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:25,880
And he was like, oh, I'm from Louisiana.

433
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,920
Like that's so close, you know, or whatever.

434
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,320
Yeah, he definitely had like leaned into the culture of New York because again, like he

435
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,320
wasn't immediately like, hey guys, how's it going?

436
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:34,320
Welcome to the Moon.

437
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,040
We were like the only ones in there at the bar top.

438
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,440
So like he wasn't like, yeah, welcome in.

439
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:38,440
Like what can I get for you?

440
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:39,440
Like chatty chatty.

441
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,720
But as soon as we tried to like actually have a conversation, he was like, the fucking

442
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,720
coolest dude.

443
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,640
I think the people at the Speakeasy were probably the most welcoming.

444
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:47,640
Yeah.

445
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,680
But even then it was more, it was very customer service.

446
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:51,680
Yeah.

447
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:52,680
Nice.

448
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:53,680
Like I made kick ass drinks.

449
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:54,680
Oh my God.

450
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:55,680
Every drink was good.

451
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,680
And I don't even like half the liquors that they were made with, but every drink was good.

452
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,680
He was hot too.

453
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:00,680
I disagree.

454
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:01,680
Sorry dude from New York.

455
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:02,680
Sorry dude from New York.

456
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:08,640
All right, where were we?

457
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,080
To avoid a bear, to avoid embarrassment.

458
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,080
I just had a thing happen.

459
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,080
It spazzed him in my mouth.

460
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,080
I didn't lie.

461
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,080
I mean, that makes sense.

462
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:23,080
You shit your pants.

463
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,080
You lie about it.

464
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,080
You know, I mean, oh man, I'm not that bitch.

465
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,080
I'm like, I shit my pants.

466
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,080
I just started.

467
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,080
I left my underwear in the trash.

468
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,080
I'm like, I'm not that bitch.

469
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,080
I'm like, I'm not that bitch.

470
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,080
I'm like, I'm not that bitch.

471
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,080
I'm like, I'm not that bitch.

472
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:37,080
My underwear in the trash can, oh I've done that many, many a time.

473
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,640
Sorry, I'm only I'm only referencing you when I say that you throw your underwear in the

474
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:42,640
trash.

475
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,400
I have lost many, a good pair of underwear.

476
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,920
It's like cannot contain control of my balance when I'm drinking.

477
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,760
No, that's not gonna shit myself every time I get drunk doesn't happen.

478
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,720
I think I've actually shit myself more times sober.

479
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,080
Oh, God, I like these because they're not as serious as the cases and we can just like...

480
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,080
Yeah.

481
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,440
So clearly that's acceptable, right?

482
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,200
Lie about shitting in your pants.

483
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,840
Some might agree, some might not.

484
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:19,040
So another reason one might lie is to maintain privacy without notifying others of that intention.

485
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,040
So like essentially it would be maybe you're telling a story or something, right?

486
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,840
And you're just like to remain anonymous, this person or whatever, or use a different

487
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,080
person or a different situation potentially.

488
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,080
Yeah.

489
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,080
To maintain privacy.

490
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,080
Okay.

491
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,040
I would say like sometimes like I, someone's asked me for my phone number that I didn't

492
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,880
want and I've given them a false phone number because I don't want to be rude.

493
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,480
But I don't want them to have my number.

494
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,480
Exactly.

495
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:48,680
To maintain privacy without notifying others.

496
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,600
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So the last one we're going to talk about is to exercise power over others by controlling

506
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,560
the information that the target has.

507
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:30,560
Oh, that's so manipulative.

508
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,320
Like I'm only going to tell you what I want to tell you to maintain control over this

509
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,360
entire narrative, right?

510
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:39,720
I know people like that.

511
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:44,360
So to me, again, another textbook narcissist tendency, maintaining control over someone

512
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,880
by using information or manipulating information, huge red flag, I think we can all agree that

513
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:53,360
there are varying levels in which a person can lie.

514
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,320
Some may be socially acceptable and some maybe can be argued over.

515
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,800
There's some people out there that say any one of those reasons, nope, should never lie.

516
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,560
But we're sitting here giggling because we're like, oh, totally, like this lie or that lie

517
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,040
or whatever.

518
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,120
And so what is socially acceptable and what's not?

519
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,120
Yeah, you know.

520
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:12,120
It's true.

521
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:16,400
I think people will say a couple of those things like lying in order to prevent yourself

522
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:17,400
from getting hurt.

523
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,360
That's acceptable to me at least.

524
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,840
But lying by omission and lying to manipulate someone else, I would not do that.

525
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,120
And I hate when people do that to me because it's been done to me.

526
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:30,960
And it's been done to probably everybody that I know.

527
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,400
It's just, unfortunately, it's very common.

528
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,560
And sometimes people don't even realize that they're doing that.

529
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,880
It's just so normal to them to narrate the story their way that they don't even realize

530
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:41,880
how toxic it is.

531
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:42,880
It is.

532
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,200
I believe, yeah, that it can be a toxic trait.

533
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,680
And I definitely think, I mean, we did talk about this at one point that somewhere along

534
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:56,880
the way maybe that lying served you because you were afraid of punishment or a domestic

535
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,560
situation.

536
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:04,200
But when you're talking to someone that you care about, that skill shouldn't serve you

537
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:05,600
any longer.

538
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:10,600
And so there are tools to, we'll talk about that later.

539
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:16,840
But so let's talk about some ways that you may or may not be able to recognize when somebody

540
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,160
is lying to you.

541
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,720
Or just maybe not necessarily that they're lying to you, but that there's uncomfortableness

542
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,200
or stress around the situation, right?

543
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:26,720
Around the conversation.

544
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,000
So blink rate.

545
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,440
Many people talk about blink rate.

546
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,200
It may have a direct correlation in lying.

547
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,400
Someone who is lying may blink more often within a certain amount of time or sentences

548
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:41,760
because of the stress that the individual is experiencing is very high.

549
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,840
So you'll blink more often when the stress is high.

550
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,000
I'm blinking a lot right now.

551
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,160
No, I'm thinking about it.

552
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,160
I know, right?

553
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,480
Well, I get to one that I absolutely do.

554
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,920
So a good way to start a conversation with someone is to establish a baseline of that

555
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:59,520
person.

556
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,120
And you can do that by asking simple questions like, what's your favorite color, your dog's

557
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,560
name, where you went to high school, things like that.

558
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:09,520
You can usually gauge a person's baseline from these questions if they're being truthful

559
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,120
in the first place.

560
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,920
And then through that, you can ask more stressful questions.

561
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,240
It's the same thing with a polygraph.

562
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,320
I was just going to say it sounds like the same kind of approach as a polygraph.

563
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,320
Right, yeah.

564
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,680
So you get that baseline and it's just even and you can kind of gauge after that when

565
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,200
you start asking stressful questions what their tells are.

566
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,200
Yeah.

567
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,700
It's very interesting stuff.

568
00:26:29,700 --> 00:26:34,320
So breathing can also be a good indicator that someone is lying too rapidly without context

569
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,400
or too shallow without the correct context.

570
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,960
A lot of times when people are not being truthful or being deceitful in some way, they don't

571
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,600
breathe from their abdomen.

572
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,480
They breathe through their chest.

573
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,280
So it elevates.

574
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,440
And it's because all of everything else in your body is getting so tense.

575
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:58,120
Your body is essentially in this like fight or flight mode.

576
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,520
And so like a lot of things happen when you begin lying or especially if you're put in

577
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,240
a stressful situation, your blood will start flowing more.

578
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:12,400
So again, like when someone gets angry, right, their face may initially be red, but you've

579
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,000
ever been in a really big argument with someone?

580
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,720
Eventually their face goes pale because all of the blood is being pushed through the body

581
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,120
so quickly.

582
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:21,660
So same thing with the breathing, right?

583
00:27:21,660 --> 00:27:22,660
It's all up here.

584
00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:28,800
It's all, I'm getting ready to, I'm getting ready to, you know, run or fight or something.

585
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,600
So that's why the chest, right?

586
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,680
I didn't know that one.

587
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,600
It's really interesting.

588
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,160
So this one, the guys always talk about it on behavior panel, but they call it the Dupers

589
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:39,440
Delight.

590
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,080
The Delight comes from deceiving someone.

591
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,920
So it's kind of like a grandiose story or maybe the ability to manipulate somebody.

592
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,000
And it usually is in the fashion of dropping the jaw with a smirk.

593
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,400
Like, oh my God, that like gives me the fucking thieves.

594
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,400
I cannot stand up.

595
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,160
I just, yeah, I just modeled it.

596
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:02,120
But it's, they call it the Dupers Delight because they're, they want you to feed it.

597
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:06,960
You know, they're eating up your, the interaction, right?

598
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,960
The attention.

599
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,960
You're believing it.

600
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:09,960
I know, right?

601
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,960
I fucking hate that shit.

602
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,800
It's like, why do people drool?

603
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,760
I definitely know at least one or two people that do that regularly and it is haunting

604
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:19,760
and I hate it.

605
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,760
I'm stopped doing it.

606
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,400
Now that I know, I'm stopped doing it forever.

607
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,280
Stop doing it forever.

608
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,480
Now that I know like what that is, I'm never, I'm always going to see it.

609
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,480
Like I'm never going to unsee it.

610
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,360
When I was watching that Richard Ramirez one, he definitely did it at least once.

611
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:37,000
Like when he was talking about like, you know, how scary he is or whatever.

612
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,960
And he was like, waiting for you to react.

613
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,320
A really good example and I hope Movication Guys are listening to this because Brady had

614
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:50,640
touched on a hatchet wielding hitchhiker and Kai does it all of the time.

615
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,880
The hatchet wielding hitchhiker guy.

616
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:53,880
You know that story?

617
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:54,880
Smash, smash, smash.

618
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:55,880
No?

619
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:56,880
Okay.

620
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:57,880
Can't tell you.

621
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,800
Well, you're going to have to look at it after this.

622
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,880
But in his interviews, he does that.

623
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,880
Dupers delight a lot.

624
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,400
And they're, even the guys are talking about how he's originally from like Canada, but

625
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,640
he talks with this like, you know, California accent.

626
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:13,680
He's like, I'm from Dogtown.

627
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,720
Like and he makes this face and it's everything he says.

628
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,640
Like he's just feeding you bullshit.

629
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,040
It's, it's, it's seriously one of the ones that I'm going to take with me for the rest

630
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,040
of forever.

631
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,480
It's also one of those things where it's like, you say something that is a lie about someone

632
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,920
else and then it's like that face.

633
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,080
Like, can you believe that?

634
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,080
Like, yeah, exactly.

635
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:32,560
Like, can you believe that she said that?

636
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:33,560
Yeah.

637
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:34,560
Like that thing, I just did it again in the microphone.

638
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:35,560
I mean, you can't see it.

639
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,920
Well, you can't see it, but I think maybe, you know, listeners, if, if you were to do

640
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:39,920
that, right?

641
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,440
Like imagine that Valley Girl, like, oh my God, can you believe she said that?

642
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,640
Like that same tone and inflection, that is exactly what Dupers delight looks like.

643
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,040
That's so gross.

644
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:51,200
Terrifying.

645
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,040
Poster, of course, can be a big indicator of whether or not somebody is lying.

646
00:29:56,040 --> 00:30:03,680
More specifically, if one is covering one's neck with their hands, because all of this

647
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:09,040
right here, I'm not all of it, everything, everything here in your neck is vital.

648
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:10,480
It's all vital stuff, right?

649
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,920
So if you're talking to somebody and they're rubbing their neck, right?

650
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:20,360
Or if they have their hands in their laps, like covering their genitals, typically, or

651
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,080
they're just being depressed and it's like instinct to cover your, like to protect yourself.

652
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,080
Exactly.

653
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,120
And it may be a sign, and don't get me wrong here, it may be a sign of someone who has

654
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:35,080
been victimized in the past, but it can also allude to kind of this kind of cowardice, like,

655
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,720
oh shit, like I'm being confronted at this point.

656
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,760
And I mean, I'm just sure that you're going to say this, and you already have said this,

657
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,080
but of course, these are all the generalize.

658
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:45,960
This is not like, if someone does this, they're fucking lying.

659
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:46,960
They're fucking lying.

660
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,040
No, it's, it's, and it's not even that they're lying.

661
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,800
It's just that, it's just signs of stress, essentially.

662
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:53,800
Yeah.

663
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,760
I mean, sometimes, if someone is trying to tell, like I told you one time, one of the

664
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,800
biggest things that pisses me off is when someone tells me I'm lying when I'm not, because

665
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,000
that really holds a lot of weight with me.

666
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,400
But when someone tries to accuse me of lying and I know I'm not, I still do some of these

667
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,400
things.

668
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280
So it looks like I'm guilty, but I'm just super uncomfortable.

669
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,920
I'm like, oh my God, please fucking listen to me.

670
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:15,920
Yeah.

671
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,920
Like, you're not hearing me.

672
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:17,920
Right.

673
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,920
And it looks deceitful.

674
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:19,920
I'm just fucking overwhelmed.

675
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:26,280
You know, there's, for every net, what would be perceived negative behavior, there's other

676
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:33,080
positive behaviors that one can look at during that to that stressful moment to say, okay,

677
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,360
this person is being genuine, like talking with your hands open with your palms up.

678
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,400
This is, I hope that you're, it depends on how close your hands are.

679
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,400
If your hands are essentially touching and doing like, and gesturing with the palms open,

680
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:53,520
trying to describe it, this can be eat my shit, like, you know, I'm feeding you this.

681
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:58,600
If you were to use that same motion, but spread your arms out, you know, almost like, you

682
00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,600
know, you're like a W.

683
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:00,600
Yeah.

684
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:06,120
Like a W. And you're pleading in a manner towards somebody with your palms up.

685
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,120
It expresses openness.

686
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:08,120
Yeah.

687
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,120
So this is like, I'm telling, this is all I have to give you, you know, kind of a thing.

688
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,120
Yeah.

689
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,120
Yeah.

690
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,120
I do that too.

691
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,240
I do that worldwide international sign, like showing your palms as a sign of like, you

692
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,240
can trust me.

693
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,240
Like, I'm not, yeah, like a surrender.

694
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,240
Yeah.

695
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:23,240
Like you can see my palms.

696
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:24,240
I'm not a threat.

697
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,240
Right.

698
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,440
You know, which is interesting that like, it kind of translates through to lying as

699
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:29,440
well.

700
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,480
I was talking to Cody and Cody said I could use his name.

701
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,240
So I'm going to talk about Cody.

702
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,840
Cody was talking to me last night about, we were talking about body language and stuff.

703
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,720
And so I tried to tell him, I was like, you know, the way that you speak with your hands

704
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,200
up or your shoulders up, it's a very genuine expression.

705
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:49,200
And he's very expressive.

706
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,200
You've seen Cody talk.

707
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:52,480
He's very expressive with his hands.

708
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,960
And but to me, that just registers as genuine.

709
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:03,560
It just, there's nothing to me threatening about him, you know, in any way.

710
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:04,560
But I like that about him.

711
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:09,500
I like that he is an expressive person because it means that I can just take him at face

712
00:33:09,500 --> 00:33:13,840
value and then I can evaluate whether or not I want to hang out with this guy or whatever.

713
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,680
You know, and it's interesting, like the different dynamics of the way people act, because you

714
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,360
know me, like I'm a very like friendly person.

715
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:22,520
I smile at everyone.

716
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,440
I talk to everyone like no one's a stranger, you know, kind of that vibe.

717
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,800
But some people do perceive that as a threat.

718
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:29,800
Yeah.

719
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:30,800
Instead of like, oh, they seem genuine.

720
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,320
They seem open.

721
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,840
People have been like other women have been threatened by me in the past because I'm so

722
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,240
comfortable and vulnerable and open for sure.

723
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,840
And I didn't even fucking do anything.

724
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,840
Yeah.

725
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,840
I was that lady at the bar the other day.

726
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,120
Oh my gosh, that lady last night that I was at the bar and her friend was puking in the

727
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,320
corner and she turned and I said, she was like, Jen, Jen.

728
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,720
And I was like, Oh no, not Jen.

729
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:51,720
Haha.

730
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,720
Like as a joke.

731
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,720
And she goes, okay.

732
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:54,720
And then she like turned her friend.

733
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:55,720
She's like, are you okay?

734
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,800
Well, well, and then she came and sat right next to me.

735
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,040
And then she was like, who the fuck are you?

736
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,360
And I was like, who the fuck are you?

737
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,360
Yeah.

738
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,360
And I said, I'm Koelle.

739
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,360
Nice to meet you.

740
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,360
It's nice to meet you.

741
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,360
And she's like, blah, blah.

742
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,960
And I was like, my gosh, maybe feel so uncomfortable.

743
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:11,960
Right.

744
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,840
And then like, I was just fucking hanging out the other day and this lady pulls me into

745
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,120
the bathroom and is like, I'm not going to hurt you.

746
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,120
Let's go outside and have a conversation.

747
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:23,640
I was like, why would you lead with I'm not going to hurt you?

748
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,360
Her palms were not facing up.

749
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,040
And I literally didn't do anything.

750
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:30,720
She's like the people you're hanging out with are sketchy.

751
00:34:30,720 --> 00:34:31,720
I'm like, then talk to them.

752
00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:32,720
Don't talk to me.

753
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:33,720
Exactly.

754
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:34,720
That was her baseline.

755
00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:35,720
I was wild.

756
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:38,720
She's at a 100 all the time.

757
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:39,920
That was wild, man.

758
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,280
So I'm guilty of this all the time.

759
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:48,240
And it's definitely a subconscious thing for sure.

760
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:50,280
Tongue jutting or thrusting.

761
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,080
No, not like that.

762
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:54,080
Gross.

763
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,920
Don't ever do that again.

764
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:56,920
OK.

765
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,400
So how's that?

766
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,720
Or like, when you stick out your tongue and you're almost like licking your lips for

767
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:03,720
like a hot second.

768
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:07,240
Yeah, you look like a lizard now.

769
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:09,240
OK, so explain.

770
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:12,120
But it can be a sign of someone hearing what they don't want to hear.

771
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,120
Really?

772
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:14,120
So it's like a subconscious thing.

773
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,760
And where it comes from is when you were little, little babies and you were learning

774
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:25,000
to be weaned, honestly, where it was the rejection, tongue rejection.

775
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,840
So we do it as adults as well.

776
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,720
And it's again, not always a sign of somebody lying.

777
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:34,960
This is a sign of stress, something that I don't want to hear.

778
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,760
Like just did it again.

779
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,520
It's just it's such a small, subtle thing.

780
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:42,720
But when you're talking to somebody, you can kind of tell.

781
00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:48,280
And it's usually when, again, when you're speaking to someone and they're listening

782
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:49,280
to you.

783
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,680
So it's not like they're lying, they're sticking out their tongue.

784
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,560
It's when they're listening to you and they don't like what you're saying.

785
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,560
Yeah.

786
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:57,560
OK, I gotcha.

787
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:58,560
Yeah.

788
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,560
Interesting.

789
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,560
Pretty interesting.

790
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,400
Like a bad taste in your mouth comes from it.

791
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,520
Exactly, like a bad taste in your mouth.

792
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,480
So another sign that someone might be fibbing or lying to you or is in a very stressful

793
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:13,680
conversation is the loss of verbal fluidity.

794
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:18,000
So this can be a disruption in the thought process, but it can also be a sign of tripping

795
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,240
up on what you want to say versus what you should say.

796
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:23,680
So I know you want me to say this.

797
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:24,680
I'm not going to say that.

798
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:29,600
I'm going to redirect and go and stutter for a second and then think about it and then

799
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,320
redirect and then finish my sentence.

800
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,960
Or it's when someone annunciates like, I cannot tell you anything different, OK?

801
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,600
I'm telling you the truth.

802
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,800
Like that annunciation, it's like, are you?

803
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:40,800
Are you though?

804
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Why would you be taking so long?

805
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:43,720
Because you're trying to think of what to say next.

806
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:44,720
Yeah, exactly.

807
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:45,720
Yeah.

808
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:47,880
Or don't raise your voice at me.

809
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:48,880
Yeah.

810
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:49,880
I love that.

811
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,720
I try not to do that anymore.

812
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,080
OK, first of all, don't raise your voice at me.

813
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,080
Oh my God.

814
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,080
No, I hate you.

815
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:00,320
Hey, give me a second to think about what I'm going to say next.

816
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,320
Yeah, no, for real.

817
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,480
And obviously, it's apparent that neither one of us really like conflict very much.

818
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,040
So it just makes me so uncomfy when people do that.

819
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,560
But then again, I've fucking done it.

820
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:19,120
So some lawyers like to create value to what they say in order to keep you appreciative

821
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,320
or engaged in what they're trying to accomplish by their lying.

822
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:23,320
Yep.

823
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:24,320
That's crazy, right?

824
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:25,320
It is crazy.

825
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:31,360
And it's like, OK, let me give you a little bit of the truth so that you trust me.

826
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,960
I will relate it to maybe you and I if I'm talking about someone else.

827
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,680
And then the next thing I tell you is going to be a lie, but you won't even think about

828
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,120
it because I've already been trusting with you at the beginning with the information.

829
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:47,000
Or on the flip of that, let me lie about something that's way smaller than what you're accusing

830
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:48,280
me of.

831
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,360
Because then if I admit to at least this much, it gives you satisfaction because you know

832
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:58,040
that I'm lying, but then I'm the victim.

833
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,000
Because yes, I did that and I admitted to that.

834
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:06,120
Fucking Alec Murdoch was doing that in his trial with the one that killed his wife and

835
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,440
his son or has been convicted of.

836
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,560
He would say something like, yes, I did lie to the police about that, but I wouldn't lie

837
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:17,000
about this though because I'm admitting and I'm putting everything on the table for you

838
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,000
to-

839
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,000
So why would I lie?

840
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:20,000
So why would I lie?

841
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,000
Because I'm already admitting to these awful things.

842
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Yeah.

843
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,000
And that's one awful thing.

844
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,000
Yeah.

845
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,720
But then you're creating value because you're like, the person is now becoming invested

846
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:28,720
into what you're saying.

847
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:30,960
But it's again, it's lying by omission.

848
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,640
You're saying, you're right, like I'm going to lie about, I'm going to tell you that I

849
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,280
was lying about this one thing so that now in turn you think that I'm not lying anymore.

850
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:39,280
Sure.

851
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,280
Yeah.

852
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,840
Or you know, you're going through problems in a relationship and someone says, okay,

853
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,920
I'm going to go to therapy, right?

854
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,600
They go to therapy for like a week or two and then they don't anymore.

855
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,760
It's a band aid.

856
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,880
I want you to be invested.

857
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,080
I messed up because of these reasons that I have.

858
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,200
Give me patience and time.

859
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,400
You know, but they're lies.

860
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:02,400
They're fucking lies.

861
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:03,400
It's like, I went to therapy.

862
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,400
What more do you want from me?

863
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:05,400
Yeah.

864
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,400
No, you went for two sessions.

865
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:07,400
Right.

866
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,760
So eye blocking, that's pretty self-explanatory.

867
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,040
I think we all know when people aren't looking you in the eyes or they redirect their eyes,

868
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,240
especially their gazes when they look down and left.

869
00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:20,320
Yeah, down and left or up and right.

870
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:21,320
Yes, exactly.

871
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:27,920
So what you want out of a conversation would be strong, positive, confident denials.

872
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,640
So these are like kind of good things.

873
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,600
Watch out for weak comments or non-direct answers.

874
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,040
People who are solid in what they're saying will hit you with these strong, confident

875
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,540
denials.

876
00:39:37,540 --> 00:39:42,800
So another thing is called, I love this word.

877
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,320
Serality, meaning, and a lot of it is something that you would see in like, mathematic equations

878
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:49,320
and stuff.

879
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,440
It's essentially mirror matching.

880
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,040
So it's a mirror image of something.

881
00:39:54,040 --> 00:40:00,240
And a lot of people that tend to manipulate other people want to show you, you.

882
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:01,840
It's mimicry.

883
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:07,120
So use that you accuse me of being jealous, I accuse you of being jealous.

884
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,520
The best way that the guys put it is, you're not looking for a wolf in sheep's clothing,

885
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,200
you're looking for a wolf in your clothing.

886
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:16,760
Does that make more sense?

887
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,760
Kind of.

888
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:22,880
It's like someone that is the non-manipulator or the person who is trying to express their

889
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,320
feelings, expresses a specific feeling and then in turn the person that is lying or manipulating

890
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,680
is like, well, I feel that way too about you.

891
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:37,760
So it's like, I am not going to hear or acknowledge your feelings because I have the same feelings

892
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,280
that might have been more important.

893
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,600
Even though they don't, they're just trying to turn around on you.

894
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,800
And I have absolutely met people like that.

895
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:46,800
And it's very frustrating.

896
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:53,480
Like I have frustration around the fact that you don't receive my feelings in a very specific

897
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,480
way or whatever.

898
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,400
And they're like, well, you don't receive my feelings in a very specific way either.

899
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,560
Or use it against you and say, well, I thought we had a conversation about this and you're

900
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,880
not respecting my feelings later.

901
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,880
You know what I mean?

902
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,880
And I'm just saying what you said because that's what you said.

903
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,880
Exactly.

904
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,280
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

905
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,720
So when does lying become pathological?

906
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:17,040
So the behavior is persistent, pervasive, often compulsive patterns of excessive lying

907
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:23,720
behavior that leads to clinically significant impairment of function in social, occupational,

908
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:31,640
or other areas, causes marked distress, poses a risk to self or others, and occurs for longer

909
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:32,640
than six months.

910
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,440
So that's all according to Wiki, right?

911
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:35,640
Love Wiki.

912
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,920
So although that pathological lying isn't a diagnosable disorder, it is listed in the

913
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,480
DSM-5 under almost every personality disorder, such as narcissistic personality disorder,

914
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:51,680
antisocial personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, and histrionic personality

915
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:52,680
disorder.

916
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,400
Yeah, I was going to say it's definitely a symptom of a disorder.

917
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,800
It's not like a disorder itself, but you're right.

918
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,920
And the narcissistic thing completely makes sense with narcissistic personality disorder,

919
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,480
antisocial, things like that, I would even go as far to say as dependent personality

920
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:11,200
disorder because people with that disorder may lie about things in order to maintain

921
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,120
relationships or they may avoid confrontation, which is what we know to be true about that

922
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:24,360
disorder, and lie to others about that confrontation to make themselves seem right in the situation,

923
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:29,800
instead of actually acknowledging the original problem and the person's feelings that they

924
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,600
hurt originally.

925
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:38,040
And the same thing with narcissistic personality disorder, it's talk about that reward, right?

926
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:44,800
People with narcissistic tendencies or personality disorder have a habit of inflating themselves,

927
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:51,440
having these grandiose ideas, grandiose sense of self, and this image is very, very important

928
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,440
and to maintain that image.

929
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,280
I mean, there's lying, there's lying, there's lying, there's lying.

930
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,760
Yeah, Jose Menendez.

931
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,360
Yeah, Jose Menendez, Scott Peterson.

932
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,960
To maintain this image, I mean, even with Amber Fry, the woman that Scott was having

933
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:14,240
an affair with, covering that whole relationship up, I mean, he was at Lacey's vigil, calling

934
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:19,760
her saying that he was in Paris on New Year's Eve, like, what?

935
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,080
Yeah, it's definitely supported.

936
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,120
That's a lot, that's a lot.

937
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:28,560
That's really interesting, I think it's definitely worth knowing things like that, especially

938
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:33,320
for the general public, you know, if you're in a sticky situation with someone, if you

939
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:38,400
will, kind of not necessarily using that information to call people out, but at least

940
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,000
to just know and get some clarity for yourself that your feelings are valid and if someone

941
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,520
is doing something like this to you, it doesn't mean that you've done anything wrong.

942
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:53,000
And honestly, even being able to just spot and recognize that they are lying to you

943
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,480
might give you more clarity into the type of relationship that you want to maintain

944
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,280
or not maintain with that person, right?

945
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,440
So definitely don't want to use this knowledge as like a weapon.

946
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:02,440
No.

947
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,840
Or to be like, you're lying, I can tell because you did this, but.

948
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,600
Because diagnosing a killer said so.

949
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,640
Right, but just to be able to, again, make that choice for yourself, make that assumption

950
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,480
for yourself and then use that information to better your life and move forward without

951
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,760
those relationships if it gets to that point.

952
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,760
Yeah, I think also it's just a communication skill.

953
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,920
If you are in a relationship and you know, and you love your partner and you trust your

954
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:32,000
partner, some of these tools might just help you be very aware of how uncomfortable they

955
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,000
are.

956
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Yeah.

957
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,000
And you can meet it.

958
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,520
It doesn't have to be, oh, you're lying about it.

959
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:41,240
It's just like, okay, clearly this direction we're going is stressing you the fuck out.

960
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:45,320
Maybe we need to go another route in order to get the information I want, you know, in

961
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,960
order to make a better decision about the way the conversation goes or whatever.

962
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:49,960
Yeah, exactly.

963
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:50,960
That was a really good episode.

964
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:51,960
I really liked that topic.

965
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,440
It was definitely not what I was expecting.

966
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:54,440
Yeah.

967
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:57,880
It was interesting, you know, especially since talking about personality disorders lately,

968
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,640
I feel like, you know, this is a symptom.

969
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:05,080
Like you said, this is a symptom of, potentially a symptom of something bigger with a personality

970
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,080
disorder.

971
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:07,080
So yeah.

972
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,600
I like the education portion of this.

973
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:14,640
And again, what we like to kind of teach in these, I guess if you will, is just life

974
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,320
experience, you know, like just learning different things that you don't learn in school unless

975
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,840
you take a specific course that's going to go through that lesson and stuff.

976
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,480
But that was a great topic.

977
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:25,760
Thanks for bringing it.

978
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:26,880
Bringing it.

979
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,080
You guys can follow us on social media at diagnosing a killer.

980
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,240
Twitter is at killer diagnosis.

981
00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:37,920
We got our new stickers and we got our new business cards, which have the QR code now

982
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,640
linked to our Instagram account rather than our RSS feed.

983
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,120
And those are amazing.

984
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,560
And I'm really excited about them.

985
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,720
You I gave, I gave one to J. Well, not a sticker, but a thing.

986
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:51,720
I gave one to J. Well, I gave one to J, JD and Cody.

987
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:56,120
Oh, they all have the little business cards, which is cool about the business cards because

988
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:57,600
they do have a QR code on them.

989
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,360
Yeah, necessarily have to pass it out to anybody, but you can just have people scan

990
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:01,360
it, which is really cool.

991
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:02,680
Yeah, absolutely.

992
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:08,760
And now included in our Patreon, we have included tiers rather than just a regular random bid

993
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,080
of your choosing.

994
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:12,080
We do have three different membership tiers.

995
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,440
I did want to quickly go over those.

996
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,920
The $5 a month membership tier is called the pod lovers members of this tier will receive

997
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,280
a diagnosing a killer sticker anytime we get new ones, as well as a shout out on our latest

998
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,720
episode for being coming a patron.

999
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,520
They will also receive a new goodie every time we order, whether that be again, a business

1000
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,360
card, maybe a mug, a t-shirt, things of that.

1001
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,000
When they do, when we do get new merch.

1002
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,640
The mental breakdown team is our second tier that is for $10 a month.

1003
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,920
Members of this tier will receive any new merchandise when purchased as well.

1004
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,600
Again, a shout out on the latest episode.

1005
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,320
Members will also have first dibs on requests for mental breakdowns or cases.

1006
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,960
If they send us a request, they're in part of this tier.

1007
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,800
They will have first dibs on us doing those cases.

1008
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,920
And they will also get a tag on our Instagram post for that episode.

1009
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,480
So they'll have a shout out on the Instagram as well.

1010
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,680
And then lastly, our final tier, the diagnoses.

1011
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,640
It's going to be a $20 a month tier.

1012
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:11,600
Again, members of this tier will receive everything that the other tier has received,

1013
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:17,080
as well as having access to actually ad free episodes each week only available to this

1014
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:22,280
tier that will be available to be listened to on the Patreon website.

1015
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:27,000
And it'll come out at midnight the day of the rest of it, but it will be ad free completely.

1016
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,440
So that's a little perk of doing the $20 a month that you'll have ad free.

1017
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,520
I'm sure people have noticed we started doing ads and that will be an ad free episode for

1018
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,000
you guys if you are just for members of that tier.

1019
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,960
So just wanted to kind of write that pepper that in there because that is something new

1020
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:43,920
that we've just implicated.

1021
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,920
Do you have anything else?

1022
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,920
No, I'm good.

1023
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:48,240
That wasn't good.

1024
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:51,280
You guys, be honest, don't lie.

1025
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:52,280
Okay.

1026
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:58,040
Unless it's to save someone else from being hurt or you shake your pants.

1027
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,040
That's signing off.

1028
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:00,040
All right.

1029
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,040
All right.

1030
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,040
Love you.

1031
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:11,520
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