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Hello hello hello. Yes, let's fucking go!

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Hello! Hello! That was me after an hour finally figuring out our audio because

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the software that we used to record updated without my knowledge and so when we came to

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record it wasn't fucking working. Yeah. We were getting so frustrated and we have kind of a

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time crunch for this episode and so we were like oh my gosh we better figure this out like right now.

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It's so true yeah. Kenna was out of commission for the last like two days and so we are recording

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this and you will hear it tonight at midnight. Yep exactly. So yeah time crunch it's always

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like when we're in a rush right? Yeah. When we're in a rush it's always something going on here.

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It's just like tier one too like tier one IT it's like oh is it plugged in? Oh unplug it plug it

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back in. No for real. Restart your computer like just a bunch of shit like that usually. I restarted

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our software probably eight times I redownloaded it I deleted it redownloaded it restarted my

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computer like unplugged and plugged everything I was getting really frustrated and finally

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figured it out that's why you heard me in the beginning going let's fucking go because I

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really made it work. So now we are back with another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. My name

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is Kenna. I'm Koelle and we are super fucking excited for this. So excited. Episode to air. I

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know you guys have probably seen on social media that we've been talking about a collab we have

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mentioned in our last couple episodes. Do you want to tell everyone the spoiler alert and who we're

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collabing with and what we're talking about? Yeah so we are working with Moviecation. I'm sure

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some of y'all have seen that on the Instagram. So essentially what we're gonna do is we are going

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to talk about a true crime case that has inspired movies or specifically a movie that Movication

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will go over. I'll let them do that portion. If you don't know Movication is Brady, Cole, Joe,

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and Tyler and they give their opinions and reviews on movies. They actually as far as I know have

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reformatted kind of what they're gonna be doing. They were talking about like current films or current

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TV shows. A bunch of funny dudes. They're hilarious. I love listening to them. Check out their Academy

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Award episode is probably like my favorite. It's just so funny. So they essentially are going to be

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tackling one film, an older film, that is in relation to the case that we're talking about today. So I

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think that they're gonna probably go for that. I think just you know one movie and then all four

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of them talk about it and give their opinions. So I'm excited to listen to their episode as well.

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Same. Yeah and we'll be talking about of course deep dive into the case and the psychology of this

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person and then at the very end we will give our kind of take on the movies because I actually

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fucking watched them. I am you know, I'm sure listeners recognize that I don't watch a lot of

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movies and I haven't and so I actually spent my time. I again like Cole said I was out of

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commission for the last two days. I had a medical procedure nothing crazy but I kept me in bed at

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least for a whole day so I was like oh perfect now I can watch these movies and get my real opinion

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and yeah. So really excited about that. So make sure you guys like, subscribe, a move to

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a vacation. You can find them anywhere you listen to podcasts. Yeah absolutely and of course Instagram

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as well. You can just we tag them in our post so you can follow them as well. And they love responding

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too. I feel like every time you and I comment or they have a comment they're pretty quick to respond

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like all that good stuff. So they're really like they really respond quickly. Yeah definitely and

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speaking of social media you guys can find us on social media anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer.

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Twitter is at Killer Diagnosis. We do have a Patreon setup. We have our stickers and business cards

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actually on the way with our QR code so that'll take you straight to our Instagram as well. If you

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subscribe to the Patreon you will get a sticker immediately sent to you. We have email at Diagnosing

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a Killer at Gmail and then of course you know anywhere else Diagnosing a Killer at Google

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as you can find us. I've been looking up like I've been in vain and like googling us and then like

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our names pop up and everything. I know. Oh my god. The images too. Right. So I do have one email

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actually and one very nice direct message on Instagram that I would like to read before we get

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started. The email actually came from Frankie. She said it was okay to use her name. From Franklin.

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So Frankie said Coco and Kenna I'm writing to you from a plane going on vacation to Portland

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Oregon and last time I took a trip out there the soundtrack to my flights back and forth was the

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podcast so I'm making it a tradition and doing it again. I've got John Wayne Gacy on to kick off

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the flight out of San Antonio and since I've got a little time I figured I could finally send out

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an email to you guys. A little throwback to some of the earlier episodes when Kenna would say quote

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we're practically celebrities we're famous now. I see Coel pretty consistently when I come out to

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our regular bar and she's one of my dearest friends so she dazzles me all the time but since

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I started listening to the podcast about six months ago Kenna I hadn't gotten to see you in a while.

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Just a quick little wave from the car once or twice and it started to feel like ooh Kenna's

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so elusive. It's like a celebrity sighting and then when you finally came out recently and we

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were talking about the podcast it almost felt like a celebrity meet and greet where I got to hear

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some of the behind the scenes stuff and bra it was so cool. So Kenna you've done it you've reached

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celebrity status lol. If Frankie says that it's true. I love that. If Frankie says that it's true.

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Thank you. She goes anyhow just wanted to drop in and say I've been loving the podcast and for a

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future recommendation I've just recently learned about maybe the most chilling case I've ever

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come across and would love to see you guys cover this one somewhere down the line. David Parker

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Ray aka the Toybox Killer. You're gonna have to do that one I don't know nothing about it. Oh it's

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it's bad. She continues even just briefly hearing about this one gave me as Kenna says the full body

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heaps in all caps and I didn't even get the whole story high key I heard enough to chill me to the

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bone and said nope gonna wait for my deep dive for the deep dive for my girl's lol anyhow anyhow

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it's been over a week since I started writing you guys this email because I'm a terrible procrastinator

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lol but I just wanted to say the podcast is amazing love you babes xoxo Frankie. Love you Frankie.

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Love you that was so sweet and honestly um that case is chilling I remember listening to an episode

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of it was like a two-parter three-parter episode that I listened to about him and man it is heavy

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so I will say I am down to research and bring that case however the details that you probably

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heard um really graphic stuff I will probably won't include just because it's really bad.

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However I'm down because it's a very interesting case it really is and this guy's like like one

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of the worst in my opinion yeah so thank you Frankie for that lovely email. Thanks Frankie.

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Next I just want to really quickly read a DM from Instagram this is from one of Cameron's old

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old friends from high school they were actually in dance together in high school and they were

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seniors when I was a freshman so I got to dance with her as well not with her but you know in the

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same year so her name is Leah and Leah messaged us and said Kenna I'm way late to your podcast

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party but I'm here now I I've binged all y'all's episodes and I love it in my head you're still

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a baby freshman on pep squad and I feel like a proud dance team big sister literally listening

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to the episode with your mom right now and I had no idea your mom was in healthcare admin samezies

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and oh my god yes there's absolutely not enough mental health resources when I worked in the ER

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and we get a psychiatric patient the poor patient would end up sitting in the ER for 24 plus hours

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waiting on a bed in a mental health facility we hated it we weren't doing the patient any good

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and it broke my heart that we couldn't actively provide the help that they needed that sucks honestly

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because she continues anyways I just wanted to pop in and say hi and that I'm so proud of you

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and Koel who has no idea who I am she goes I love this show keep it up PS I'd vote for your mom for

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governor she goes pps it made me smile a few episodes ago when Koel mentioned that cam had cut

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her hair when she was young and it looked really good not shocking she had to do my hair most of

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the time during pep squad and then she went away I guess and came back it goes I lied I'm back

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fuck that insurance company and I'll stop live responding to the episode now so thank you Leah

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that's really sweet thank you and yeah honestly like I mean if you guys haven't listened to our

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da k live episode our mom was our guest host our guest star if you will and we talked about you

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know her past positions work wise and just how shitty the system is when it comes to mental

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health care yeah but yeah that's all I had do you have anything else before we get into this case

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mom for governor yeah yeah I think uh just the only other thing that I kind of wanted a

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pepper in was uh big things coming up hopefully maybe by august we may have a pretty big announcement

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hint hint yes so I'm excited I'm really excited we will see yeah we're gonna try to um really get

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some get ourselves out there I guess if you will and really just try to interact with more of you

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guys so I'm excited about that me too well without further ado I am going to close out my windows

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showing me how to work the software I'm gonna pull up my research before we begin this episode I just

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want to put a blanket content warning we said we're trying to do this before every episode this

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episode will contain content of manipulation of people after they are deceased and um abuse and

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neglect and childhood to minor also included in this episode are content of animal abuse as well

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if those topics make you uncomfortable we do encourage you to check out any one of our other

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episodes and thank you for joining us love you love you bye so well knows of course what we're

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doing today because of our collaboration um but for the listeners and I'm sure you saw by the name

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of the episode today we are going to be talking about Edward Theodorgin Theodoll Theodoll more

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commonly known as Ed Gein so that is the person we will be talking about today and I'm sure you can

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figure out the movies that we're gonna talk about as well um but let's get into this case let's do it

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on the morning of November 16th 1957 Plainfield hardware store owner Bernice Warden disappeared

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a Plainfield resident reported to police that the hardware store truck had been driven out of the

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rear of the building around 9 30 a.m. the same day the store had had a few customers for the entire

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day and a slow day for the business local residents believed it was slow because deer season had just

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opened up and they figured that most people were out hunting Bernice Warden's son becoming worried

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about his mother entered the store around 5 p.m. to find the store's cash register open and blood

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stains on the floor oh frank frank is her son frank told investigators that on the evening before

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his mother's disappearance a man he knew had been in the store and that he was supposed to return

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the next morning to pick up a gallon of antifreeze what kind of a oh this is a hardware store yes

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I don't know why I thought flour shot I'm scared upon looking into it further a sales slip for a

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gallon of antifreeze was the last receipt written by Bernice on the morning she disappeared oh well

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Frank Warden Bernice's son just so happened to be a deputy sheriff so the entire task force

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zeroed in on the suspected perpetrator that Frank was able to name himself the person of interest

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in the murder was none other than Edward Theodore Gein so we're gonna talk about Ed Gein why would

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he do okay okay I'm gonna wait I'm gonna wait did he not know sorry did go ahead did he not know

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that I mean I don't know what I'm just throwing it out there it is diagnosing a killer not diagnosing

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a kidnapping kidnapper didn't he know that like the woman's son was a sheriff and the I'm sure he

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didn't care probably didn't give a shit okay all right all right that's all okay I'll be quiet

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Edward Theodore Gein was born in La Crosse Wisconsin on August 27th 1906 to George Philip Gein in

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Augusta Wilhelmine Wilhelmine Gein I don't know how to say that middle name I think it's Wilhelmine

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like German it's it's all W's yeah Edward was the second of two boys his older brother being Henry

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George Gein born in 1901 he's the oldest of how many I'm sorry two two oh okay no he was a second of

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two so he's an older brother yeah an older brother Henry okay sorry in 1901 Henry was born isn't that

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wild 1901 it's ancient when Augusta and George married she was very adamant against sex and

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sexuality but she really longed to be a mother so it was okay for her well I mean she only had to

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have sex twice true she's like give her a wish please yeah however it was when Henry was born

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it is noted that Augusta felt really detached from Henry um because he was a boy and she would

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she prayed that God would give her a daughter which is why they tried a second time for a second

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child so she well so she only really wanted one child yeah if she wanted a little girl okay um

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but then they had a voice George yeah yeah what a peach yeah George Philip the boy's father was a

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terrible alcoholic who was unable to keep a job due to it although he did work at various times as a

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carpenter tanner and insurance salesman and mother Augusta operated a small grocery store that she

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actually had George had owned the grocery store at one point and was unable to keep it because of

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his drinking and she took over the store so she would work at the grocery store okay um however

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this household was notably different than others of the time as Edward's mother was the ruler of the

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home with an iron fist if you will and did not waste any time teaching the boys about her extreme

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devotion to her Lutheran faith hmm so she was she was wore the pants essentially no that's not really

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that's kind of an outdated term but she did um it was what she says goes and you're gonna think

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about how I think yeah she would consistently preach to her sons about the innate immortality

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of the world the evil of drinking and especially her belief that all women apart from herself

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were naturally promiscuous prostitutes and instruments of the devil great we're off to a

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great start and she was Lutheran that doesn't even sound like Lutheran and she sounds like

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something else she's like I'm perfect but all the women are trash and don't trust any of them you

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know the bible says to be obedient to your parents oh sure she took that to heart I'm sure she did

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Augusta would reserve time every afternoon to read the bible for the boys usually choosing

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verses from the old testament and the book of revelation concerning death murder and divine

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retribution cool put it in her mind it's a real strong start god it's awful I mean it's it's

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really not funny it's actually really sad because like especially and of course considering what

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happens later he like didn't have a fucking chance you know I neither did Henry but we'll see what

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happens uh-oh I can't stand that all like fire like it's terrifying your children really especially

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was something as it pertains to religion something that is supposed to be uh like guide

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guideful like helpful exactly to use all of the negative things is like be like don't sin or you're

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gonna die geez don't have sex you will get chlamydia and you will die on top of this due to George's

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alcoholism Augusta despised him and took over again his role as head honcho at the home this

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reign in the home and practicing of the bad parts of religion in my opinion went on for many years

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and I guess Augusta kind of realized that the boys were beginning to when they were getting older

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they were beginning to like take information from others that they had met in the community like

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in school and started to like think about other beliefs rather than just hers yeah um and she

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didn't like that of course like no you can't listen to anybody else I'm right everyone else is wrong

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like don't take advice from people she was essentially telling them like don't talk to

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anybody when you're out of the house wasn't that not yeah it was kind of Susan Smith right what it

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was well it was her husband David remember his mom was like super religious and you know

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eventually you know his parents split yeah um in 1915 when Edward was nine Augusta made the

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decision to move the whole family to a ranch that she had purchased on the outskirts of town

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seemingly to isolate the boys from being influenced by others in the community one of her other

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reasons for moving is that she also referred to lacrosse as a quote sinkhole of filth seemingly

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like rationalizing her decision she's like oh that place is gross for you this woman sounds like a joy

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yeah she's gonna like spend a day with her she's great I should watch a DVD of her life

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well Edward wanted to this 155 acre ranch was located in the small town of plainfield Wisconsin

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after moving here Augusta got her wish and the boys became completely isolated with the exception

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of going to school and back which honestly I'm surprised she didn't try to like homeschool them

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yeah that is surprising when they were not actively at school their lives consisted of chores and

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listening to the religious preachings of Augusta due to this isolation and lack of social gatherings

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Edward quickly became a target at school and he was frequently teased by his classmates for being

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like a weirdo essentially it's not even his fault he's a weirdo it's for faults um he was noted

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as being particularly effeminate and socially awkward this is a quote with a lazy eye and a

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speech impediment so he didn't really have a lot of stuff going for him um he actually also had a

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growth over his left eye and his speech was stunted due to a lesion on his tongue a lesion on his

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tongue so not only are they giving their children you know all these negative ideolations they probably

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don't believe in chores they probably aren't taking care of them like health wise it's definitely

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neglect and abuse on top of this it was noted by classmates and teachers alike that Edward would

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laugh at like random times for no reason seemingly it kind of seemed like he was reacting to like a

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joke that like no one else had heard yeah like it was okay like he was hearing things maybe yeah

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maybe he was like he just thinks he's funny he's like making jokes and he's like oh well you know

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like what we've discussed uh laughter as being a symptom of seizures it could be yeah absolutely yeah

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and yeah it that's very well might be and that if it that is the case it makes a lot of sense

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for his you can stunted frontal lobe development you can ask mom when i was like young like an

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elementary school that i used to just like laugh like that yeah and um although i only maybe remember

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one instance of it happening yeah but given Cameron's history of seizures at that same age

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i wonder if it's not correlated yeah yeah no definitely i think about that too not that he

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was really able to form connections to begin with but to add insult to injury his mother would scold

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him when he would try to make any friends at school like she'd be like you can't talk to that person

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what are you doing like how dare you try to make friends reminds me about wife swap lady

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she's dark saddened god i love that shit that woman uh not terrible augusta was known kind of

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by people in the community to be verbally abusive in other situations as well it is noted that one

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time edward came home from school crying due to the amount of bullying that he was experiencing

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and in response to this augusta berated him and his father actually hit him over the head for crying

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kind of like man up kind of thing what i think his mom was like oh he's oh you got to do something

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about this to the dad you know so it's like okay i'll be the verbally abusive one and you can be

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the physically abusive one and then we've got like all the edges covered there yeah you know like all

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the bases covered now because of his inability to be social or you know of course with his mother's

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response to that um edward actually wound up having a number of imaginary friends in childhood

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which is i mean reasonable of course that makes sense yeah our brains are kind of hardwired for

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the most part to be social yeah no for sure and it's i mean all he has is his brother literally

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he can't talk to his parents you know about anything and they were they're like four or five years

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apart son yes they're five years apart five years apart okay now despite all of these hardships he

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was experiencing edward actually did really well in school particularly in reading which he excelled

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at edward continued to attend school with this isolated home life but in 1920 after completing

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the eighth grade he actually quit school altogether to begin working on the family farm so i kind of

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seemed like it kind of seems like that was maybe suggested by his parents like you're old enough

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now to like really help us with the physical labor and things like that i'm sure that's definitely

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what one of their goals was was like you know legally we can't not let you go to school yeah

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or out to a certain point you know well i don't know how it was in 1920 i'm sure children were

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expected to be in school yeah homeschooling probably wasn't even a thing probably not yeah you know

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what your riot didn't think about that um but it makes sense to deal with their own self into reading

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because it's like another like another world escaped to another world yeah and it's like internal

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as well now despite all of the terrible behavior by his mother edward actually idolized her growing

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up and this was a fact that concerned his older brother henry as he was the only one of the two

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boys that ever stood up for them edward would pretty much just take it yeah for lack of a

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better phrase and henry would stand up for the two of them yeah interesting now between 1920

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and 1940 there's actually really not much known about edwards home life but seemingly during this

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time he was still working on the farm the whole time not really having any stepping stones to get

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out of the family business and into the real world um and henry was also still at the family home so

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again they really only had each other to talk to and rely on i mean they're in their adults like

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then they're 30 and they're 30 yeah huh and at this point it was also noted that their mother

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consistently treated them similarly to when they were kids um and she would pretty much say that

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they were going to become just like their father growing when they grew up um yeah just wait a

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few more years you'll be an alcoholic and you'll be abusive too now on april 1st 1940 when ed was

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34 years old his father george actually died of heart failure causing caused by his alcoholism at age

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66 that's young for yeah so at this point with their father deceased ed and henry began doing

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odd jobs around town in order to help their mother with living expenses because they were

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consistently going into town to do odd jobs the boys were actually really well known around town

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as being reliable and honest they were you know honest workers those geen brothers yeah um well

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both brothers worked as handymen ed also frequently babysat for neighbors something he really liked

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doing because he seemed to relate more to children than adults at this time yeah which explains the

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i mean his brain is probably underdeveloped considering the abuse it's like peter pan

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syndrome almost like if especially if you never had a childhood yeah you know exactly michael jackson

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syndrome right also um imagine fucking being babysat by edgie and like later in life you're

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like oh shit that was my baby sitter like yikes that's awkward you're like oh my god that's i

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never even thought about that yeah you imagine uh um a few years later henry began dating a

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divorced mother of two and eventually planned on moving in with her although he worried about ed's

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attachment to their mother he would still often speak ill about augusta in front of ed well ed

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did not like the fact that henry was still talking ill about their mother and he responded with shock

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and hurt from his brother's words he was like don't talk about her like that you're an asshole

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that's so interesting to me is it just because you become so desensitized to the abuse you still

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well i mean we've talked about it before that it's you always want to you're always trying to seek

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that approval right and then maybe if you know maybe if you respect that person and you don't

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talk ill about that person maybe they'll respect you back well yeah i mean he is i don't know what

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the difference is with henry and ed but since he was little like ed has been told by his mother that

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she is perfect and all other women are bad it's true not only i feel like it's also maybe like a

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stockholm syndrome or eddipus complex like maybe a little bit of both yeah like it's norman bates

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yeah it's definitely norman bates i know that name i just haven't oh psycho oh yeah i have seen the

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movie yeah that was silly do you think that well maybe that'll tie in too i should google it yeah

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maybe and it's also the younger one though so maybe when henry was younger and then five years

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between him and ed him being more and ed being more maybe her his mom didn't preach that to him

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in those five years those are formidable years and then when ed was born maybe she did i don't know

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but yeah it's just a wonder why ed became very infatuated and like obsessed with his mom and

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henry became very detached right like this same household it's it's true though yeah i mean not

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to you know i would love moviecation to do psycho that'd be hilarious the old one and the new one

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the new one with vince vaughn but yeah that's in psycho it's his mom has died and he preserves

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his mother like he has his mother's skeleton in the basement no that's it might be okay because

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because it might be yeah psycho was in like the 1960s so i wonder it could very well be based off

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of edgene so yeah norman bates keeps his mom like in a basement like just dead mom like the skeleton

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and then like throughout the movie you think it's the mom committing murders because he dresses up

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like in her wigs and her gowns but yeah so he'll like go around instead of like the bates motel

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and he'll go around like murdering okay so i like he murdered this woman and then you think it's the

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mom the whole time killing and then you realize at the end that the mom's dead and he dresses up

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like his mom because he idolizes mom because his mom always told him he was perfect and like

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you're perfect and i'm perfect and i'm your mother and blah blah like he was obsessed with his own

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mother might be loosely based on it because it's not exactly the same but also when i said earlier

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that i had seen psycho i was mistaken i've seen american psycho i've never seen the movie psych oh

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yeah no not americans i go it's like the one that's like yeah in the shower the shower scene okay and

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then ann haysian vent von vent von plays norman bates and the remake and ann hays is the one that

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he murders damn yeah and then there's like this detective that's like going around looking for

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her and stuff like that because she's missing i think she has like a fiance we should just like

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partner up with mivication and do the whole episode with that be fun all right so going back to the

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case um now of course i just said that ed did not care for henry when he was talking negatively

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about his mother oh is that foreshadowing on may 16th oh no here comes the date you know when we

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pull out a date y'all someone's dying oh god don't laugh okay it's what march on may 16th 1944

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henry and ed were reportedly burning marsh vegetation on the property and the fire got out

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of control drawing the attention of the local fire department the two boys were working together

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to control the fire and when it was finally extinguished ed had lost sight of henry uh-oh

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he immediately reported his brother as missing to the police and when they arrived with a search

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party ed goes essentially oh i don't know where he could be let's just check over here and then he

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was there on this big property so ed led them directly to his missing brother after claiming

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that he didn't know where he was unfortunately the police stumbled upon henry who was found dead on

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the ground face down police became concerned about the circumstances by which they located

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henry of course because ed claimed he didn't know where he was and then led them immediately to him

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also he said he must have died from the fire yeah the fire must have that's what i was gonna ask

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what the cause of death was yes and police um would become more increasingly concerned with the

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fact that henry had bruises on his head and actually no signs of smoke inhalation or burns

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oh despite this the police dismissed the possibility that there was any foul play involved

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and the bounty coroner listed asphyxiation as the cause of death yeah we didn't find any evidence

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of that but we're gonna label it as an exciseation for sure yeah um not blood forced trauma apparently

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investigators also suggested that henry had been dead for some time and that this cause of death

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was not due to the fire sometime meaning like a few hours maybe like maybe right before the fire

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right not days but yeah however no autopsy was ever done and they closed the case and nothing came

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of it seems legit around here yeah nothing to see here it's fine yeah just barry them they're

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probably fucking scared of ed they're like oh shit don't talk about his mom yeah it was not

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suspected until many years later that ed might have been the perpetrator and the murder of his

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brother so he wasn't really like a suspect ever there wasn't any suspect because they didn't

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think it was foul play yeah they didn't they surely couldn't it surely couldn't have been ed

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because the boys were known about town right yes not boys they're men but brothers now with his

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father and brother gone ed was left in isolation with augusta and the two stayed at the home together

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shortly after henry's death augusta would actually have a paralyzing stroke oh wow it didn't kill her

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but of course paralyzed her yeah and after this incident ed devoted himself to taking care of

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her being her full-time caregiver norman mates of course ed later recounts that sometime in 1945

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so a year after henry died he and his mother visited a man named smith who lived nearby to

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purchase him straw for his name is just smith i guess they called him smith they called him other

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last names i guess oh my name smith just smith according to ed augusta had witnessed smith beating

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a dog a woman inside the smith home came outside and yelled for him to stop but smith unfortunately

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would beat the dog to death right in front of all three of them oh my god augusta was extremely

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upset by this scene however what bothered her did not appear to be the brutality toward the dog

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but rather the presence of the woman telling him to stop she was like how dare you tell a man what

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to do he can do whatever he wants to do and your trash for coming out here and interrupting his

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yeah fuck what's kind of backwards as my set is cast she says augusta told ed that the woman was

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not married to smith so she had no business being there and she angrily called her this is a quote

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smith's harlot oh damn yeah she was serious when she said that she was and like what the fuck she's

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like oh you're not married to him so you have no business telling him what to do like bitch what

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his name is smith i don't know he's lasted him again still now shortly after this augusta would

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suffer a second stroke and her health would decline rapidly on december 29th of 1945 augusta died at

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the age of 67 did he put her in a basement no damn it ed was absolutely devastated about the loss of

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his mother stating that he quote lost his only friend and one true love and he was absolutely

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alone in the world oh that is so it's like sad that is oh it's like it's misguided but it's sad oh my

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gosh becoming completely lost after his mother died ed became even more of a hermit while living

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alone now all by himself ed held on to the family farm and began working odd jobs again for money

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he actually boarded up rooms frequently used by his mother in order to like preserve them

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this included the upstairs the downstairs parlor and the living room and he would leave all of these

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rooms untouched unless he would clean them essentially but he didn't move anything it's

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really interesting about that and when you talk about like movies or television that kind of pulls

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from this story um there's definitely an ex files episode of like you know almost like

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hills have eyes ask family members like they it's it's actually two brothers and their mom and their

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mom is like something about her like she's like invincible or something but she's like lost a leg

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and they had her like on this really skateboard thing underneath the bed i don't know but either

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way like their whole thing was like i guess like the anti-augusta though because her she was like

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encouraging her sons to go like breed yeah it was really creepy anyways um but that's what

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reminded me of those like that style of house right and even in texas chainsaw the house is

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kind of boarded up right it's like this old wooden kind of thing but it's to preserve

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i don't never i never realized the connection between that but the representation of that

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feeling of like preservation like being represented in film or television when it comes to certain

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stories that mimic this yeah absolutely if y'all haven't guessed it of course we're going to be

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talking about the texas chainsaw massacre and we'll talk about that a little bit more in detail at

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the end but that is the movie that mivication has been kind of diving deep into in their episode

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and then um that's one of the ones that i watched to make sure that i had room but this actually

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ties into that as well i was gonna say um so despite leaving these boarded up and untouched the rest

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of the house actually became increasingly worn down and dirty uh while these rooms remained

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like pristine in condition and somewhat of like a shrine to his mother interesting so kind of reminds

360
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me of like the room in texas chainsaw where all of the dead animals and stuff the taxidermy is like

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that room is like closed off and like everything's in the right place and everything's really nice

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and neat now during this time ed actually slept in a small room next to the kitchen seemingly to

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like stay closer to like where his mother spent most of her time around this time as well i'd

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became interested in reading pulp magazines and adventure stories particularly those that involved

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cannibals or nazi atrocities interesting um he spent his days learning about nazi experiments

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studying human anatomy looking at porn and reading horror novels um he had also began to indulge in

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these horrific fantasies but nobody knew so he was kind of like taking it upon himself to maybe

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make some of this stuff like a reality and i'll get into that okay in 1947 it is stated that ed

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allegedly began grave robbing and would dig up freshly buried remains of women who reminded him

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of his mother like same skin tone same kind of age same hair color despite all of his extracurricular

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activities ed was still able to maintain his job as a handyman in town and actually received a farm

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subsidy from the federal government in 1951 i actually didn't know what that was but it's like

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an amount of money that's given to you monthly in order to keep your farm afloat in order to you

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know maintain the agriculture and the economy around this same year victor travis and ray

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burges disappeared in plain field leaving only a jacket and their dog behind in the woods near

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ed's property both of them at the same time went missing yes okay this was never connected to ed

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gein however but it is suspected that he might have had something to do with their disappearances

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ed would also occasionally work for the local municipal road crew and crop threshing crews

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in the area sometime between 1946 and 1956 he had also sold an 80 acre section of his land

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that his brother henry had owned before his death hmm so not only did he like he like pretty much

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cut henry out of his life entirely yeah oh that's henry's property yeah sell it i don't want i don't

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want to deal with that i wanted nothing to do with him on december 8th 1954 a 51 year old woman by

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the name of mary hogan disappeared she was the owner of a tavern that ed frequented and this

384
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:54,600
night he came by the bar mary informed ed that she was closing down and instead of leaving he simply

385
00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,280
stood up and shot her in the head killing her instantly what she was like standing up like

386
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:06,120
seemingly like he was gonna go and then he just immediately shoots her so he had put like a sled

387
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,600
in the back before going inside originally so after shooting her he had actually drug her outside

388
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,400
to put her there um so it was clearly premeditated and then he would take her body back to his form

389
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:21,080
the next day police found a bullet cartridge matching a 32 caliber pistol as well as overturned

390
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:26,440
furniture and a pool of blood behind the bar police did not immediately connect this with ed

391
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:32,600
gein however and he was able to stay unnoticed at the farm now this brings us back to november 16th

392
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:39,320
1957 three years after the murder of mary hogan when bernice warden goes missing okay again remember

393
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,520
her son is deputy sheriff frank warden so knowing that ed gein was the last person in the

394
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,560
hardware store frank warden would send the task force over to his home okay

395
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,680
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399
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purchase trusted health products products that you can feel good about when police arrived at the

400
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:30,680
gein home they saw something absolutely out of a horror film and i wrote that a while ago so it's

401
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:37,000
funny that we're talking about mucation police discovered bernice warden's body in a shed out

402
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:43,960
back she was hung upside down by ropes at her wrists and a crossbar at her ankles her torso

403
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:50,200
was quote dressed out like that of a deer carcass according to police i know it's really bad she had

404
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:55,960
been shot with a 22 caliber rifle a fatal wound and the mutilations were done postmortem after death

405
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,000
i mean that's like the slightest bit of good news here is that she didn't feel any of that yeah

406
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,320
yeah searching the home authorities found nauseating discoveries now there is everything

407
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:12,360
that was found in his home laid out online i did not include everything because it's very

408
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,680
graphic and very gross and it makes my stomach hurt so i'm just gonna put what i was comfortable

409
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,760
putting in there i'm just gonna read that yeah and then you can read the wikipedia page if you

410
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,440
want the rest or you can listen to move occasion because i'm pretty sure that they put everything

411
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:32,680
in there now among the items found in edgings home were four human noses whole human bones

412
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:39,560
and fragments wait just the no wait no wait back up already yes just like hanging around like in

413
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:45,400
the house um used in some kind of a way it seems like they might have just been kind of out in the

414
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:53,480
open decoration then again he was noted as using certain body parts or pieces of human to make

415
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,360
varying subjects right furniture okay that's mostly what i was getting at i was like was it like a

416
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:08,200
necklace nose or no noses also found was nine masks of human skin bowls made from human skin

417
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:15,240
like a cereal bowl it's human skulls i'm pretty sure i don't know if you know it was like how do

418
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:26,600
you know like what like like leather yeah leather bowl skin bowl scalp bowls i saw it okay um mary

419
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:32,600
hogan's head was actually found as well in a paper bag bernice warden's head was in a burlap sack

420
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:39,240
there was skulls on his bed posts organs in the refrigerator and again multiple other items that

421
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:43,800
i'm not gonna repeat here because it's horrid again this is all laid out online if you'd like to look

422
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,680
um i know that there's some very well known items that were found but i'm not gonna say them here

423
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:54,360
anyway skin lamp yeah there was a lamp made out of skin i was mostly referring to the belt made

424
00:38:54,360 --> 00:39:11,960
out of nipples but i'm not gonna put them here skin lamp also belt made nipples god awful

425
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:19,640
cool i heard that on a podcast and i was like uh now all of these artifacts artifacts

426
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,040
god jesus

427
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,720
they're not artifacts

428
00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:32,360
all of these collectibles

429
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,520
all of this memorabilia

430
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:43,080
we're like paraphernalia okay

431
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:50,120
fuck artifacts i don't know why i put that artifacts make sense but it just sounds like it's

432
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,360
in a museum yeah okay

433
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,440
now everything found in the gene home were photographed at a crime lab and then

434
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:07,240
destroyed good now walking into this home authorities most likely believed that this

435
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:11,880
man was responsible for the death of dozens of people obviously with all of the stuff that they

436
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:18,040
found but in reality it was not ed who killed these people the same day that bernice went missing

437
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:24,280
november 16th 1957 police arrested edgene and took him in for questioning when questioned about the

438
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:29,160
gruesome scene in his home ed admitted that he had been grave robbing since a few years after

439
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:37,320
his mother augusta died he stated that between 1947 and 1952 he made as many as 40 nocturnal visits

440
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:43,640
to three local graveyards to exhume recently buried bodies while he was in a quote days like state

441
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,520
so do you think that like i mean surely people well i don't know if they were recently buried

442
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:54,760
then i guess the dirt would still be fresh so you know as long as he snuck in there same night or

443
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,040
next day maybe nobody would notice that the bodies were actually missing and he would essentially like

444
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:05,480
look through obituaries to see like who was yeah recently deceased and the pictures of them of course

445
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,800
would look like his mother yeah but wouldn't there be like a groundskeeper i mean it's got to take

446
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,400
like at least an hour to dig it out and pull out a body and then i don't know how he got away with

447
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:21,080
it he's clearly used to using the sled thing though that seems like something that he knew how to do

448
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:26,840
so he had made as many as 40 visits like i said overnight to three local graveyards but on about

449
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,960
30 of those visits he said that he came out of the days while in the cemetery left the grave in good

450
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:39,800
order and returned home empty-handed so only about 10 times he actually grave robbed was he

451
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:44,040
was he like what is he like sleepwalking he's i think he's trying to say he was in like a days

452
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,880
like state i'm not sure if that means mental illness or sleepwalking um he didn't really

453
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,480
specify yeah i mean i'm like yeah i've been diagnosed with this i don't know any other case

454
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:58,200
where somebody would be sleepwalking and then uh robbing graves so yeah on the other occasions um

455
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,600
so again at least 10 times he dug up the graves of recently buried middle-aged women he thought

456
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:08,520
resembled his mother took the body's home where he tanned their skins to make his paraphernalia

457
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,840
ed admitted to stealing from nine graves from local cemeteries and led investigators to their

458
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:20,840
locations um alan willa movsky of the state crime laboratory participated in opening three

459
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:27,000
test graves identified by ed the test graves were exhumed because authorities were uncertain as to

460
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:32,680
whether the slight ed was capable of single-handedly digging up a grave during a single evening

461
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,600
because again you said it would take a really long time it would he was very thin and they were

462
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:41,240
trying to pretty much see like if it was even possible for one person to do that in that amount

463
00:42:41,240 --> 00:42:44,600
of time well you guess they have to do their due diligence because they want to make sure that

464
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,720
there's not like a bunch of missing people somewhere right so essentially during these um

465
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,440
test graves they were they were found that ed was being truthful and two of the graves were

466
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:59,400
actually found empty due to these findings police knew that ed was being truthful about his previous

467
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:04,520
actions and then they continued on um trying to identify each woman okay throughout conversations

468
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:10,520
with ed police began to realize the true intent behind his actions since his mother died he began

469
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:17,080
to create a quote woman suit so that quote he could become his mother to literally crawl into her skin

470
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:28,280
so yeah i mean there's no really like extra explaining that i'm not gonna try to woman

471
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:40,680
explain what that means like it's kind of it's it's kind of cut and dry no no oh no shit because he

472
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:57,560
would cut and dry their skin it's a little funny i hope that you guys understand that we're not

473
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:03,640
laughing at the people we just get really uncomfortable it is it's really uncomfortable

474
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:12,920
that's wild that is i mean that's that's beyond like that's like if there's no other way to phrase it

475
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,080
if like if like these movies had come out or like let's say like Buffalo but like

476
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,000
Silence of the Lands came out before this i would be like that's reaching like someone wouldn't do

477
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,480
that you know what i mean but like the fact that it's based on like true events is oh god it's

478
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:30,280
it's what that is yeah it's you have tears in your eyes

479
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,920
yeah it's not that it okay it's not very complicated right and i think that's something

480
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,480
that we we experience a lot with these cases that we do when we're trying to break down

481
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:48,200
the psychology of somebody that it's a long history right and and uh when people have mo's

482
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:56,200
you know like btk has an specific mo you know but but the reasoning behind it is so convoluted

483
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,640
there's not really like a really good explanation it's kind of like well i just kind of wanted to

484
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:05,800
see if i could do it and then i did and then i just continued and not make a person suit yeah

485
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:14,760
that's very a very unique mo it is it really is now when investigators asked ed if he had also

486
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:20,680
committed necrophilia before dismembering the bodies he denied it stating quote they smelled too bad

487
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:27,720
ew i know during crime scene laboratory interrogation ed also admitted to shooting mary hogan the

488
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:34,600
tavern owner who had went missing in 1954 a 16 year old witness whose parents were friends with ed

489
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:40,920
reported that ed kept shrunken heads in his home which ed had described to this teen as relics from

490
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,280
the philippines sent by a cousin who had served on the islands during world war two well that's

491
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:53,800
distancing upon investigation by police the masks that were found at the home were determined to be

492
00:45:53,800 --> 00:46:00,840
human facial skins carefully peeled from corpses and used by ed like uh silence of the lambs when

493
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,240
he's laying in the ambulance yeah and his face is all cut up and then he stands up and like peels

494
00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:11,080
it away that's like that's like a little a little nudge a little a little uh a little a little

495
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:17,080
a strike what would you call that i don't know i just said a little a little a little like a bunch

496
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:22,440
little a little a little ladle ladle ladle ladle at one point it was thought that ed might have been

497
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:28,120
the perpetrator in other unsolved cases in wisconsin including the 1953 disappearance of eval and

498
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:34,040
heartly a lacrosse babysitter but nothing stuck to him babysitter during one round of questioning

499
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:39,960
ed was being questioned by uh washara county sheriff art shealy and during this interrogation

500
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:46,520
shealy reportedly assaulted ed by banging his head and face into a brick wall what he was like so

501
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:53,480
pissed off as to what he did yeah that he like like assaulted him wow as a result ed's initial

502
00:46:53,480 --> 00:47:07,320
confession was ruled inadmissible art shealy actually died of heart failure at age 43 in 1958

503
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:14,440
before ed's trial many who knew art said that he was traumatized by the horror of ed's crimes and

504
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:20,280
this along with the fear of having to testify especially about assaulting ed caused his death

505
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:29,560
wow full body heaps one of art's friends was actually noted as saying quote he was a victim

506
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:36,040
of ed gain as surely as if he had butchered him oh my god i know isn't that so heavy

507
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:44,680
on november 21st 1957 ed gain was arraigned on one count of first degree murder in washara county

508
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:50,600
court where he pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity during the trial examination

509
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:02,360
during the trial examinations ed was diagnosed with schizophrenia and found mentally incompetent

510
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:08,600
thus unfit for trial i didn't know this oh my gosh he was sent to the central state hospital for

511
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,000
the criminally insane now called the dodge correctional institution this is a maximum

512
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:18,120
security facility in wauppen wisconsin and he was later transferred to the medata state hospital

513
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,320
in madison wisconsin if i sang any sitting names wrong i apologize and you can feel free to correct

514
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:31,400
me i'm not from wisconsin wisconsin i'm not from wisconsin i don't think anybody's from wisconsin

515
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:40,600
wisconsin wisconsin ed gain's house and 195 acre property were appraised at $4,700

516
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:46,440
dollars which would be 45 000 today well his possessions were scheduled to be auctioned

517
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:52,600
on march 30th 1958 amidst rumors that the house and the land it stood on might become a tourist

518
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:58,680
attraction hello could you imagine but then they're also gonna sell his shit they might as well

519
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:03,400
just burn the fucking house down funny you should say that oh because early on the morning of march

520
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:09,960
20th the house mysteriously caught fire and was completely destroyed shut up a deputy fire marshal

521
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:15,880
reported that a garbage fire had been set 75 feet from the house by a cleaning crew but it

522
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:22,280
did not look accidental arson was suspected but the cause of the fire was never officially determined

523
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,960
damn some people think that the fire got so out of control because it was reported by deputy

524
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:34,200
sheriff frank warden so he didn't go over there in a hurry so he was like the first to know when

525
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:41,560
he was like oh i'm gonna stop i'm gonna stop for a shake on my way what a shame when ed learned

526
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:50,440
of the fire while in detention he shrugged and said quote just as well i don't like that i don't

527
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:56,600
like that was it also a g tones that had his like castles his murder castle burned yeah i was

528
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:04,040
it's crazy ed gains 1949 ford sedan which he used to haul the bodies of his victims was sold at

529
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:12,600
a public auction for $760 which would be $7100 today it was sold to carnival sideshow operator

530
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:18,360
bunny gibbons so you're trying to make fucking money on yeah exactly didn't you have a cauldron

531
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,760
he had a cauldron too the cauldron had a bunch of stuff the cauldrons owned by zack bagans i'm

532
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:28,920
pretty sure oh really so bunny gibbons would actually charge carnival goers 25 cents admission to see

533
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:35,480
the car ed was noted as being quiet and kept to himself for nearly a decade while incarcerated

534
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:42,200
now remember he's in the psychiatric facility in 1968 doctors determined that ed was quote

535
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:48,040
mentally able to confer with council and participate in his defense the trial began on

536
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:54,440
november 7th 1968 and would last one week a psychiatrist testified that ed had told him

537
00:50:54,440 --> 00:51:00,280
he did not know whether the killing of bernice warden was intentional or accidental he didn't

538
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:06,760
know he couldn't recall oh which honestly if your diagnosis schizophrenia that's not far fetched

539
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:13,000
to say yeah ed had told the psychiatrist that while he examined a gun in warden's store the gun

540
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:18,520
went off killing her instantly you know i always say guns just don't go off but you know as long

541
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:23,800
as you're a responsible gun owner yeah just be responsible exactly ed testified that after trying

542
00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,920
to load a bullet into the rifle it discharged he said that he had not aimed the rifle at warden

543
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:34,120
and did not remember anything else that happened that morning at the request of the defense ed's

544
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:40,760
trial was held without a jury with judge robert h gallmar presiding ed was found guilty of first

545
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:47,160
degree murder by gallmar on november 14th 1968 a second trial dealt with ed's sanity after

546
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:52,920
testimony by doctors for the prosecution and defense and gallmar ruled ed gain quote not guilty

547
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:57,720
by reason of insanity and ordered him committed to central state hospital for the criminally insane

548
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,760
but he was already convicted for one murder for first degree murder so he was convicted of first

549
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,720
degree murder and then he had a second trial that was solely based on his sanity i don't know why

550
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:14,360
they did too but that's yeah judge gallmar wrote quote due to prohibitive costs gain was tried for

551
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:21,160
only one murder that of miss warden he also admitted to killing mary hogan still mild mannered ed

552
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:27,160
made no new fuss while in jail other than attempting to petition for a release in 1974 which was rejected

553
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:35,000
he laid low for a few more years and on july 26th 1984 edward theodore gain died of lung cancer at

554
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:40,840
the age of 77 interesting i didn't know was he a smoker hmm i don't know now over the next couple

555
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:46,280
of decades souvenir seekers chipped pieces from his gravestone at the plainfield cemetery for

556
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:54,120
like keepsake until the stone itself was stolen in the year 2000 what the fuck that's kind of Jesus

557
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,800
some people think it's like a conspiracy theory and it never was stolen but some people think it

558
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:02,360
was so i just put that in there well it yeah they might have just chosen to remove it just because

559
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:09,240
it was getting destroyed anyways yeah it was recovered in 2001 near seattle washington and

560
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:14,200
was placed in storage at the washara county sheriff's department so his gravesite itself is

561
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:20,280
now unmarked but not unknown because he's buried between his parents and his brother interesting

562
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,680
now this is so funny because i wrote this research like i told you a couple weeks ago and my next

563
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:30,600
line says ed gain became the inspiration behind movies such as psycho i didn't know the texas

564
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:36,520
chainsaw massacres skin wearing leather face and the silence of the lambs buffalo bill so it does

565
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:42,200
make sense though um well i don't know if it makes a lot of sense but schizophrenia spectrum

566
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:47,080
um makes sense with like all of his imaginary friends growing up and and all the abuse that he

567
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:55,240
kind of suffered at the hands of his mom and his dad it seems like he was maybe pre-disposed

568
00:53:55,240 --> 00:54:00,520
to developing that and then the the trauma and abuse kind of made it come forthcoming or forward

569
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:06,600
facing yeah even the loss of like his dad and i mean you know i may you know by the time that his

570
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:13,160
dad died he was how old he was in his 30s so yeah but i mean usually schizophrenia spectrum

571
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:19,240
disorder starts rearing its head around early 20s right yeah it can it can show up like as early as

572
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:25,720
like 15 for men but yeah 20 15 to 25 is usually like yeah so i just feel a little late but he did

573
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:32,360
talk about kind of hearing things or voices yeah um who knows what he was dealing with on the inside

574
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:37,640
he pretty much kept to himself like he said he read a lot so i don't know yeah it's really interesting

575
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:44,680
it's definitely interesting and then um even the like schizophrenia spectrum might be the most

576
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:48,280
forward-presenting mental illness but who's to say that he doesn't have a bunch of different ones

577
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,200
that he could have been diagnosed with right and that might cause he did have the what seemed like

578
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,240
he might have had seizures when he was younger that kind of they might have stunted his brain

579
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:59,720
growth and everything like that but PTSD just from the abuse he suffered from his parents who

580
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:03,880
knows what kind of CTE issues he might have been having yeah exactly he got knocked around enough

581
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:10,680
yeah i think mostly what what you know just given the time as well do you think that maybe just

582
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:17,160
because he was so simply stating i'm making a human skin suit that people will be like clearly this

583
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:24,200
man has a mental issue here yeah no definitely um especially like after getting arrested because of

584
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,400
course it's noted that like nobody really knew what he was doing when he was i mean he was by

585
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:32,120
himself he was on like a piece of property that wasn't close to town and you know seemingly a

586
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,760
nice guy i mean shitty babysat people you know for a while but you'd think that like after finding

587
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:40,600
all that in this house they would be like oh we need an immediate psychiatric consult you know

588
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:45,720
instead of waiting almost what how 10 years in jail before or maybe no he i guess he did give him

589
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:51,080
one before he was sentenced but yeah but then they still tried him you know um for the murder

590
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:55,400
but but what i'm saying is like where's the line because there's plenty of other

591
00:55:55,400 --> 00:56:02,200
people that we've covered that do things that are seemingly i mean well that aren't you know

592
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:06,280
they're crimes right like the murdering people and however especially like like angel rizinda's

593
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:12,680
how brutal he was what what do you think is kind of like the difference between saying

594
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:17,560
this person over here is a committing committing these crimes over and over and over and over again

595
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:23,400
with people why is this person not up for i mean i'm sure they all get psych psychiatric

596
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:28,280
evaluations but yeah how is this person mentally competent but this guy over here is making a

597
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:34,040
skin suit from just dead people how is he not mentally yeah competent exactly well yeah and

598
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:38,440
the psych evaluation is just that like it's an evaluation it's not like a you're not like oh yeah

599
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:42,120
this is exactly what was going through your mind when you were doing this stuff or whatever and so

600
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:47,160
it's really it's really up to it like interpretation honestly like and it's it's unfortunate because

601
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:52,280
i truly believe that like everybody that kills people is mentally ill in some one way or the other

602
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:58,040
you know but um it's just i guess it's just time and circumstance you know who gets the right help

603
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:02,920
who gets the the psychiatrist that actually gives a shit and like you know it really wants to help

604
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,840
this criminal because i feel like there's a big stigma over it people aren't gonna i don't want

605
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:13,720
to assume anything but what i would think is like maybe some people don't want to give them like an

606
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:18,440
out so to speak like by giving them a mental diagnosis because then they're not held responsible

607
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,600
according to their crimes it's part of the defense right i mean there's people like Ted Bundy that

608
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:27,720
totally admits to everything that he does you know he blames it on pornography but yeah exactly

609
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:32,520
but other than i mean other than that yeah he's like yeah i surely did those things and it's like

610
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:38,840
okay is this guy mentally competent just because he understands what he did yeah and like that

611
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:44,440
registers does that mean that he's mentally competent well that's the thing yeah it's like

612
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:48,760
there's it's the difference between mentally ill and mentally competent like you can be mentally

613
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,360
ill and incompetent because you don't know what you're doing and you can be mentally ill and

614
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,200
competent because you don't know what you're doing you know right that's uh that's a deep dive there

615
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:01,400
yeah but that would be cool uh mental breakdown topic yeah that would be cool um okay so yeah let's

616
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,440
talk about Texas Chainsaw i guess let's do it yeah so i watched it for the first time yeah like i said

617
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:12,600
like a couple days ago it's very odd i it threw me for a loop and if anyone hasn't seen this movie

618
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,040
i'm sorry spoiler alert i guess but this is movie but it's been out since the 70s so if you haven't

619
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:22,120
seen it like me then you know whatever i didn't i did not know that i i knew that the guy like the

620
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:28,040
hitchhiker at the beginning might come back later on but i did not when she ran out of the house

621
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,400
sorry i'm going through all these things when she when the last girl finally goes down she gets away

622
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:35,400
she runs to the convenience store guy and he the way he was holding her face and trying to tell her

623
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,560
to calm down i was like oh he's about to start fucking strangling get out of there literally

624
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:46,360
so i kind of knew that but leather face is i guess what we should really talk about um because

625
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:53,880
that is what he was inspired by edgine of course because of the human skin suit but not so

626
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,400
related to edgine because this guy was almost non-verbal um leather face was he didn't really

627
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:03,560
talk he was clearly coherent and he understood you know commands and you know what people were

628
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,960
saying but he was non-verbal and that's not edgine well other than the fact that he said that he was

629
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:13,880
dazed in a trance that's true yeah i mean do you think that maybe there's been times that people

630
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:19,640
had run into him during those moments and he was kind of non-verbal or yeah maybe that makes sense

631
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,200
you know yeah just trying to attach it a little bit more not necessarily that's what what inspired

632
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:27,560
you know was the inspiration for him being non-verbal yeah and they definitely say like it's

633
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:33,160
loosely inspired but um the you know amount of like taxidermy and like the items that were in

634
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,720
the home and stuff like that in the movie it's like that's the biggest thing that holds weight with

635
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:43,080
edgine yeah and you know i can't almost it was almost like the kids that were coming into the

636
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:47,320
home were seeing that for the first time almost like the police would would with edgine's home

637
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:53,720
right yeah that's interesting um but that was uh it's a it's a it's a good movie i'm not a big

638
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:59,000
fan of like older um horror movies so i don't really think that they're that scary i can see how

639
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:05,320
when it came out it's very scary you know um people will probably throw it up in the theater oh yeah

640
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:11,560
for sure like the exorcist but um god that girl at the end like i'm sorry like i know you're in

641
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:17,960
like a dangerous situation but she screams for like the whole last 15 minutes of the movie even to

642
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,720
check on you i was like what's going on you're like watching texas song i was like oh okay i was

643
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:27,480
like dude she won't stop screaming like i'm sorry but if i'm running away from someone with a chainsaw

644
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:31,400
i'm not gonna scream i'm gonna try to be as quiet as possible so that if i do get far enough away

645
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:35,560
he doesn't hear me she like is hiding and she's like i don't know have you ever been next to

646
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,640
somebody that's holding a chainsaw yeah i have actually really loud it didn't have a chain on it

647
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:45,400
however i went through a haunted house with my friend for her like 13th birthday and i was so

648
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,400
scared and there was this lady with a chainsaw with no chain but she got it so close to my leg

649
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:54,920
she literally cut my leg with it i'm not even joking like the force of the air i was i was young

650
01:00:54,920 --> 01:01:03,320
i was a wee less i just i know but yeah that um yeah that movie is interesting yeah i just don't

651
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,960
like the fact that people are like they were so open to just like let me just go in this

652
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,880
random person's house like i'm worried about it yeah knocking and then well but again they're

653
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:18,440
teenagers yeah exactly like you would just go up and ask to use somebody's phone but also the uh

654
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:25,160
the guy at the gas station was like yo don't go down there you don't want to go down that road

655
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,280
he told them and then he also told like he told all three of the guys and he also told the girl

656
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:31,240
was like you don't want to go down there and then they still fucking did i was like all right

657
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:36,360
like you ever seen cabin in the woods i'm not cabin in the woods cabin fever i love cabin fever

658
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:43,320
you should watch cabin fever i should pancakes it's like the best part uh yeah i haven't seen

659
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:48,840
i haven't seen i'll have to i'll have to look into that to that writer strong was like bae to

660
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,800
writer strong is obey from boy meets world he was uh oh yeah oh yeah he was was this ace

661
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:59,960
oh not shon yeah danie was it danie no shon shon younger brother no he wasn't the brother he was

662
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:04,280
a friend korey's friend yeah yeah but he has an older brother oh yeah that was Matthew Lawrence

663
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:12,440
also bae oh yeah uh so yeah silence of the lambs also buffalo bill um i'm not bae yeah i really

664
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:17,320
really liked that movie yeah i really did and the first time that i watched it i just like got on

665
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:21,880
my phone i was like this video rings like i wasn't really paying attention i really liked it and i

666
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:27,480
think that like this sounds really bad but i was kind of like hype about fucking Hannibal Lecter

667
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:34,200
getting away at the end i was like hell yeah yeah the best part is when they when he flays that dude

668
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:41,800
it's insane when the angel oh yeah that's wild and that actually was actually really pretty but it

669
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:46,040
was like horrifying at the same time well you know what that's actually interesting that you say that

670
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:49,960
because of the way that bernie's warden was found that's actually really similar although she was

671
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:56,200
upside down yeah and the stomach thing that's yeah that was what it was that's really interesting

672
01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:01,400
to even think about that please said that and then the stuck out of my head the face on the face

673
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:06,120
that's a ben geene reference yeah and then the buffalo bill obviously when they find the the

674
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,720
dead body and on the back she has like those missing pieces of skin and jody foster's like

675
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:17,320
he's making a suit and her jody foster voice yeah dang yeah that was a really interesting

676
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,760
movie and then psycho can you talk a little bit more about that because i know we said it earlier

677
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:27,880
but what was the connection again uh just the mother like the yeah that he wanted to preserve

678
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:33,800
the mother and like he preserved her room uh similarly to what you had said um although he

679
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:39,480
didn't really board it up he just kept her room the exact same um but then would dress like his

680
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:46,920
mother her wigs her dresses things like that no skin but um and kept her rotting corpse in the

681
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:51,240
basement and would go like visit with her and like stuff like that and then like become her

682
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:58,680
and then he would like certain parts of the movie you can hear this old lady talking like this and

683
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,680
then he's like mother i won't do that blah blah blah but then you realize at the end of the movie

684
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:07,720
it's him doing his mother's voice oh my god ew ew ew ew ew ew that just gave me the heaps

685
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,960
you should watch that one you'd like it and it's not like terribly graphic i mean the most graphic

686
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:17,400
part is when he kills the trick well then can we just talk about uh speaking of graphic when

687
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:26,600
buffalo bill like would you be like blowing my mind right now because this reference has been

688
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:31,560
a reference for like a very long time i know it has family guy does a reference to it and it's yeah

689
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:38,280
i've known about that scene i've known about that scene forever i've just never actually seen it

690
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:43,080
yeah i've known that it's the thing but like actually seeing it i was like oh that makes a

691
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,400
lot of sense like people like talk about that and say that because it's creepy it is

692
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:59,560
it's like a bush oh god men have pubic hair too i know it's just funny no it just looks like a lady

693
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:07,080
bush it's a lady funny an effeminate bush oh god well that was um yeah that's edgine and the movie's

694
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:12,040
inspired yeah give it up for moviecation y'all i hope you go check out their episode they are gonna

695
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:16,280
cover the second half or the first half or whichever half technically i want to say that we

696
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:21,160
covered the second half only because uh tila gave me the heads up and they recorded first and they

697
01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:26,280
recorded first and they've been ready for like days and we haven't so there's no offense guys but i

698
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,920
thought it was going to be reversed i thought we were going to have this episode done like last

699
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:34,920
week and we're gonna be like these moviecation boys not get together well yeah thank you guys for

700
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,400
obviously it's collabing with us like that's freaking awesome i'm looking forward to doing

701
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:43,400
maybe something similar in the future and i've been waiting to do this case this case has been

702
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,840
requested by a lot of people as well so it was really cool that we were able to kind of collab

703
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:51,640
and be able to release the episode at the same time yep so if you guys are listening to this one

704
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:55,880
listeners then this the other one should be out around the same at the same time actually so

705
01:05:55,880 --> 01:06:00,040
they're both going to have to hear done with this one go on over there listen to theirs and we will

706
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:05,400
see what they have to say because i'm excited to listen to it too so excited yeah so that was yeah

707
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:11,480
that was a wild one with edgine we will be back on monday with another mental breakdown i don't know

708
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:15,080
what we're gonna do yet i don't know what you're doing it so exactly no wonder i don't know what

709
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:19,720
i'm gonna do yet so figure it out figure it out and again we'll keep you guys posted on stickers

710
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:26,200
and business cards and any news that we have with upcoming events because that's really exciting

711
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:30,840
yeah for sure yeah hopefully we get to uh to get out of there a little bit more on the

712
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:37,400
true crime circuit scene yeah absolutely that's gonna not just in san Antonio but maybe elsewhere

713
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:43,320
also we'll keep you guys posted yeah absolutely thank you guys for joining us and please keep sending

714
01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,400
those emails and those direct messages i love to read them and love putting them out here and you

715
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:52,120
guys are awesome thank you for everything you do for us and we love you we love you bye

716
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,440
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