Motherfucking helleeeee!
Whoa!
Really loud, I'm so sorry.
Let me back the fuck up.
Have you seen those TikToks where it's like someone says something and then they shriek
and then they comment and it says the word and then it goes with the eagle emoji.
I have not seen that.
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.
The mental breakdown.
The minty breakdown.
My name is Kenna.
I'm Koelle.
We forgot to do that.
Yeah we did.
We're back because we missed the mental breakdown last week.
It was just so crazy.
We just didn't have time.
It was Valentine's Day week.
I think people understood.
I think the case came out a little bit later than it usually does.
I was busting my chops to get it edited.
It came out the same day but at night.
Usually it comes out midnight than the night before.
Oh I see.
I think you guys are being patient with me.
We have had such good feedback lately and I really love it.
Everyone's just been so awesome.
Every time I get a notification about a comment on the Instagram, I know you see them too.
We get excited and someone commented on the Amy Bishop thing that said they lived an hour
away from where that happened and I was like, oh that's cool.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
If you guys want to tell us your stories, please email us DM us.
We'd love to do an episode of your stories or something.
I'm not sure how that would work but something like that would be really cool.
I agree.
Or if it's just a few emails or something then we could have a bunch of stories.
Give us details and stuff like that and then we'll put a compilation where I'll read one
and then you read one.
Even if it's from a mental health perspective.
That would be really cool.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Do a listener's story maybe episode.
Something like that.
Yeah.
I just want to say you guys are fucking awesome because we've had such good feedback on the
mental health aspect of this podcast.
Everyone is saying that, everyone that we've talked to recently is like, dude, especially
new listeners, they're like, I have not found a podcast that is as detailed in the mental
illness aspect of the podcast, of the crime, the childhood.
We really dive deep into that and why people do what they do.
Everyone is really reacting well to that and they're saying we really appreciate the fact
that you're not only telling the story but you're not idolizing the crime or the criminal.
You're really educating on the psychology behind it.
Yeah, of course.
And of course that's what we set out to do but it's really nice that that's recognized
by people and they're not trying to listen to us for the gory details.
They're listening to us for the education and I really like that.
So thank you guys.
Yeah, I actually had someone who was a first-time listener write to me personally and said,
just finish the first episode of your podcast and first off, I'm usually not a fan of true
crime because of the implicit bias our justice system has against poor black brown and marginalized
people.
I hate how so many true crime shows sensationalize cases and glorify the job that the detectives
and the cops do even though sometimes they arrest innocent people and it completely ruins
their lives and reputations.
It's just a vicious cycle of injustice and racially profiling people.
I love how you guys look at it from a psychological standpoint instead of digging into the gory
details of crime to paint a picture of a vicious monster that we should all fear instead of
talking about the mental health aspect of it.
Of course and the last thing that we want to do and I think that we've done a really
good job of it so far but I always like to remind people and I posted about this earlier
on the Instagram actually mental illness is not a crime.
Mental illness is not equal a criminal and a lot of people seem to have this bias or
this mindset of if you're mentally ill you're dangerous and that is absolutely not the truth.
That is absolutely not what we want people to get from our info.
I know we've done a really good job of doing that so far but I always like to remind people
of that and pepper that back and I always say pepper is in.
But you know it's like so many people especially with those diagnoses like schizophrenia and
antisocial personality disorder, narcissistic things like that people hear those words and
they're like wow stay away from that person or we have to protect ourselves from that
person.
Like no that's not the truth at all.
They assume that that person is unpredictable.
Exactly.
And that's you know not always the case.
It might take a moment for that individual to realize these are the patterns and behavior
that are causing this reaction or this feeling but if anything talking about it will only
help the individual and say hey do you know that sometimes you do this or can you tell
me why that is or why you're feeling that way or how often do you feel that way?
Trying to understand rather than trying to or just judging right off the bat.
To avoid people which is honestly probably the worst thing you can do for somebody with
a mental disorder that doesn't know that they have it.
Especially people that even if they may think that they do have it like see people avoiding
them that's just going to exasperate their symptoms more.
They're going to be like well what's going on why are people not you know talking to
me anymore it's going to make those feelings even larger.
Right.
And I actually did a mental breakdown episode on the schizophrenia spectrum and so if you
want to listen to that I actually think I did in that episode if I'm not mistaken like
10 common myths about that disorder.
Yeah.
So if you want to listen to that one there's a lot of good info in there but we just want
to continue to remind everyone that we're doing this from a place of education and a
place of love and empathy.
We definitely want to make it clear that again mental illness is not a crime and we will continue
to say that and I'm sorry if you guys get burned out of us saying that.
I'm going to sound like a broken record but I really know that to be true and I want everyone
to understand that.
Yeah.
I think that's really what we sought out to do with this podcast is really you know hone
in on again that mental health aspect and really just try to stay true to that and I
think that's something that I hope that we've accomplished.
We also have a little fun along the way.
Of course.
Yeah.
I think that's what we've really tried to do with our podcast was do that.
And I think also just last note really quick before we get into this I've had a lot of
good feedback as well of people saying you know you guys are not only like educational
but you're fucking hilarious and like you guys are really casual.
It's like just having a conversation like people have told me they're like I feel like
I'm in the room with you guys when you're talking and I can like respond and you guys
will like know what I'm thinking or whatever like it's just like a group of people or just
a couple of people like us when we sit down here just chatting away we're having a good
time you know we're being authentic we're not fibbing we're not you know everything
that we say is factual we try to not really have a lot of opinion in there of course we
do sometimes and then we just try to be lighthearted as about it as well when it's not a serious
content moment you know.
Right.
Tyler from Movication texted me I think yesterday was like quoted something that I had said
or you had said and I was like we're so funny.
We're just hilarious.
We're just so funny.
America's got talent.
She's kidding.
Yeah so definitely thank you guys again so much for everything.
Before we do get started I also just want to add in our handles because I like doing
it at the beginning as well so if you want to follow us on Instagram or email us or
anything like that our handle is at diagnosing a killer at everything except for Twitter which
is at Killer Diagnosis.
If you guys want to donate to the Patreon that would be amazing for us and you get some
goodies as well.
If you'd like to do so that's patreon.com slash diagnosing a killer and that is all
I have.
I can't believe we got a paid partnership with temporary tattoos.
Oh my gosh I'm so excited about that.
That's really awesome.
Mom was saying she was like we should go buy like a bunch and like try them out as well
so that we can give like you know actual.
Honest feedback.
Yeah honest feedback exactly and I mean I don't know if you guys don't know us we both
have a lot of tattoos.
I have a half sleeve and Koel has a bunch how many tattoos do you have?
I think I have one, two.
I think I have I'm just going to guess.
I think I have eleven but they're all scattered.
Well we both have a bunch of tattoos and we're both we actually have matching tattoos.
We have hearts on our middle fingers, our left, mine's on my left hand and yours is
on your right hand so that when we hold our fingers up together they like we can flick
people off and like give them love at the same time.
Yeah it's like the ultimate flicking someone off it's like with our powers combined.
We'll have to post a picture on the Instagram for people to see but anyway my point being
is that we both have a bunch of tattoos but I've also like always wanted to experiment
with the temporary tattoos because I'm like it's really cool because you can try it on
before you actually get it and if you don't like it then great you didn't put it in your
body forever you know.
So that and I've looked at their website it has amazing options they have like a full
color like everything they have some St. Patrick's stuff St. Patrick's Day stuff coming out
right now so that'll be really cool as well and then if you click the link in our bio
you can get 10% off of those stock photos as well those stock tattoos as well.
I think they last for a really long time too because you know Kota Steven on TikTok he's
the guy that goes like that guy nope nope I love that guy.
He did one where he did like a full on sleeve and his mom about smacked the shit out of
him.
Oh man but it was like weeks later he was still doing videos and it looked just like
a faded tattoo but yeah it was pretty amazing.
And it doesn't come off unless you use their specialty wipes that actually take them off
so yeah pretty cool.
Like water doesn't make it.
Lemon scented.
So yeah thank you guys again for everything and we're gonna get into the mental breakdown
because we've been talking for a while now.
Sorry about it sorry.
So today I thought it would be really cool because we always talk on our mental breakdowns
about specific diagnoses or what have you mental disorders but I thought it would be
cool because we always reference the DSM-5 to really explain what the DSM-5 is and like
how to navigate through it.
Okay so I thought that was kind of interesting.
That is interesting you know I didn't actually learn about the DSM-5 until I took abnormal
psych and that was when we really dove into the actual book like I told you I bought myself
a copy I know you've been using it and I didn't know about it though like in detail until
I took that course.
So interesting.
The DSM-5 is the American Psychiatric Association Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders.
Proud of you.
Thanks.
You got through that easily.
Thanks.
So its last revision was actually the fifth edition which came out in 2013.
It is essentially a clarification and classification of disorders that the American Psychiatric
Association uses as kind of a diagnostic tool.
That is a good trivia question because a lot of people think that it's the American
Psychology Association and not the American Psychiatric Association.
And the difference I mean as far as I know they're both able to diagnose patients.
Psychiatric means doctor means able to prescribe medication for those diagnoses.
So it was first released in 1952 and again like I said the most recent revision was in
2013.
With this edition came some changes most notably things like Asperger's syndrome has been
included in the autism spectrum disorder rather than having a specific diagnosis.
Gender identity disorder is now gender dysphoria and bereavement exclusion has been removed
from depressive orders which I thought was really interesting.
Depression exclusion what is that?
So I just looked it up because I didn't know what that was.
It pretty much advised clinicians not to diagnose people with major depression within the first
two months of losing a loved one.
But now we know that depression can be diagnosed much sooner.
So that's probably why they got taken out.
Makes sense.
This book is not just for psychiatrists and psychologists.
Almost anyone can use this tool including doctors, lawyers, teachers and even insurance
companies.
It's helpful for anyone because even first responders things like that.
Pilots.
I mean studying that can literally help anybody.
I always say this but I truly believe even just an intra-to-sight course can help anybody
in any field of work.
I agree with that.
Each disorder in the DSM-5 is detailed down to criteria, treatment and comorbidities.
Just to name a few of each section.
Section one of the DSM-5 talks about the use of the manual.
It'll actually have an index as well to quickly locate the disorders.
But section two essentially details each disorder and we'll have some kind of like an umbrella
disorder.
For example, they give it as like a chapter.
So it'll be on neurodevelopmental disorders.
So that chapter quote unquote will start with kind of like an overall description of what
neurodevelopmental disorders are and what qualifies as such.
In this chapter we talk about things like intellectual disabilities, speech and sound
disorders, childhood onset fluency disorder or known as stuttering which I didn't realize
that was the full term.
Okay, I didn't either.
Autism spectrum disorder, tick disorders and so on.
Okay, so it would be like one chapter quote unquote would be like personality disorders
and then it would have all of them underneath it?
Correct.
Yeah, like anti-social or yeah.
Even each of these specified disorders will be a diagnostic criteria usually described
if a few of these criteria are met essentially that it may be grounds for a diagnosis under
this condition.
So there may be specifications required in order to meet the criteria.
For example, in autism spectrum disorder since we were already talking about it, the specifiers
dictate that the severity of the disorder may vary and quote with or without accompanying
intellectual impairment end quote.
So it could determine eligibility but again that's why it's a spectrum because it does
vary.
Yeah.
The DSM-5 will go on to describe a diagnostic or the diagnostic features of the disorder.
So in autism spectrum disorder certain signs of behaviors could be used towards a diagnosis.
Essentially what the previous criteria had outlined just with more detail and more specificity.
With the potential to further describe signs of autism, the associated features paragraph
may help to support a diagnosis.
So that's another, again, another little, not chapter but like paragraph essentially
would be the associated features.
So then prevalence would probably be right after that.
Prevalence is talked about with people who have autism being about 1% of the population
around the world which I thought was interesting.
Because I was thinking like in America 1% that's not a whole lot of people but of the
world.
Yeah.
That's a huge population of people.
Yeah, absolutely.
So other paragraphs within this chapter, quote unquote, would be the development of the disorder,
risk and prognosis, culture relations, gender relations, and differential diagnosis as well
like can be underneath, again, this little, not umbrella but the chapter of the umbrella.
It's kind of weird.
It's like a little bracket system.
So another thing that they touched on is going to be comorbidity.
We talked about comorbidity a lot in this podcast before.
Comorbidity is effectively the presence of two or more disorders or conditions in one
patient.
So in each diagnosis there is a risk of comorbidities and for example in autism it could be things
like ADD, ADHD, anxiety, depression, changes in eating like restricting food intake which
is part of the ED conversation that we had, sleeping issues like insomnia because of the
anxiety or the depression, and then language defects and then so on and so forth.
Interesting.
I just want to say I feel attacked because you pointed at me when you said anxiety.
Just excited.
I have anxiety now that you pointed at me.
So I know we talked about the umbrellas earlier and so I'm just going to list off what those
umbrellas are.
I won't name every single disorder underneath these umbrellas because that would take a
long time.
But they will be neurodevelopmental disorders, schizophrenia spectrum and other psychotic
disorders, bipolar and related disorders, depressive disorders, anxiety disorders, obsessive
compulsive and related disorders, trauma and stressor related disorders, dissociative disorders,
somatic symptom and related disorders, feeding and eating disorders, elimination disorders,
sleep wake disorders, sexual dysfunctions, gender dysphoria, disruptive impulse control
and conduct disorders, substance related and addictive disorders, neurocognitive disorders,
personality disorders, paraffillic disorders and other mental disorders.
I feel like we've done at least half of those for our mental reasons in the past.
Well, I weren't talking about it.
So the last portion of the book of the DSM-5 highlights any revisions from the last edition
while simultaneously going into detail as to why the revision took place.
I actually didn't know that.
That's really smart to do this.
Especially if it's a new diagnosis and the person that is looking it up is referring
to the old one.
I guarantee you it shows where the new one is and again why it's revised.
That's really interesting.
That is really smart.
Well, I think it's also to encourage people that like, okay, it's changed.
The verbiage is just why.
There's also a glossary at the end as well.
Interestingly enough, there's also a culture concept of distress section including kufeng
is is a.
It's not kufengisia.
It's kufengisisa.
This whole time.
I didn't pronounce it right the whole time.
Damn it.
It's such an inside joke.
Kufengisisa?
Kufengisisa.
Not kufengizia, huh?
No.
Sorry.
It's really not.
I thought it was kufengisia.
Oh my gosh.
Let me look up kufengisia.
Kufengisisa.
Now it's all I can hear.
Kufengisisa.
Wow.
I am so sorry if anybody listened and was like, Kenna, you're saying it wrong the whole
time and then in the bloopers, I was clearly saying it wrong the whole time in the bloopers,
but I thought I was so smart for saying it correctly because it took me a long time to figure
that out.
The funny part about it is that you were taking it so seriously.
Get it right.
Yeah, and I still said it wrong.
God, it's embarrassing.
Kufengisisa.
Very interesting.
Yes.
Well, forever it's going to be out there that I say kufengisia.
Kufengisia.
That's all I have.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
I figured it just would help people.
I mean, because you can get a copy of the DSM-5.
Yeah, it's like 30 bucks on Amazon.
Yeah, to know what you're really looking at, looking for.
And then now here for forever, whenever we bring up the DSM-5 or we're talking from the
DSM-5 or whatever or referencing it, then you guys kind of have in your head a more
clear picture of what we're referring to or referencing.
Yeah, absolutely.
And like I said, it's like $30 on Amazon.
I know you can get the other ones like the DSM-4 or 3 and all that stuff.
Highly recommend getting the most current one because of course there are revised copies
and there are reasons why they're more current.
I think I said this in one of the mental breakdowns a while ago, but I wouldn't doubt
at least a DSM-5R coming out soon because it's been so long since it came out in 2013
or a DSM-6, but usually they do like the number and then they do a revised version
before they go to the next volume.
Oh, okay.
So yeah, definitely.
Because it was like 2008 to 2013 that they like did another one.
Yeah.
But yeah, that's really interesting.
Thank you for sharing that there is, I mean, thousands of diagnoses in there, right?
Or hundreds.
Yeah, I'd probably say each quote unquote chapter or umbrella rather would have anywhere
from four chapters to maybe six, seven.
And then there's also again that other section as well.
So anything that really hasn't been touched on or anything like that, that they'll talk
about those at the end towards the end of the book.
I mean, essentially we could do 400 plus episodes on each diagnosis that's in there.
Like we could literally go down the list of them and then just do an episode on each for
the mental breakdowns.
Yeah, like even under the autism spectrum disorder when they're talking about meeting
those specific criteria, they do say when we were talking about like the severity, not
the severity, but I guess the specifications and what the specifications could mean if
one thing, one criteria wasn't met.
Yeah.
Then it could likely be this or that.
But the reason that autism spectrum disorder is so interesting is because the pendulum
swings way to the right and way to the left.
There's so many different details.
That's why it's a spectrum and or like schizophrenia spectrum disorder.
There's so many varying degrees of certain criteria that you could meet, but then you
kind of don't meet that, but you kind of meet this and it's just very unique.
And it's interesting because I feel like when you think about autism, I think that maybe
people are a little less or a little more forgiving about what that might mean to them.
But when people hear the word schizophrenia, it's like crazy.
And that's not, I mean, it's a huge.
Describe someone else.
I would just hope that people would give more understanding like they do with autism spectrum
disorder to realize that schizophrenia is also a spectrum disorder.
Of course.
And again, I always bring it back to personality disorders, but like honestly, like, you know,
we all have our opinions and our, we have the statistics and the facts that we bring
out here, but and unfortunately a lot of our cases have to do with people that have been
diagnosed, maybe undiagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, anti-social.
But that, again, I can't say this enough does not mean that that is a disorder that is dangerous.
And like, again, if anything, we should be leaning more towards these people to help
them get the help that they need instead of, you know, turning a blind eye or, you know,
trying to avoid them or whatever.
You don't need to be on alert when you're in the presence of people that have this diagnosis.
You might not even fucking know that someone has this diagnosis.
That's what I was going to say.
You know, you don't know how many people you've met that you wouldn't even bat an eye at because,
you know, maybe they've sought help and treatment and they're on proper, like the proper dosage
and things like that.
Or maybe they don't even know and they're just having a very like lucid day, you know,
or whatever.
And you might not even know.
And so that's again, when we talk about the spectrum, it's you might not even know that
somebody has been diagnosed with something.
I mean, I don't think anybody looks at you and talks about, you know, just automatically
goes, oh, no, she's got all these problems.
She got PTSD.
I can see.
And that's the thing.
You know, again, we all have brains.
We're all capable of what we're talking about here.
And if you think that you're excluded, maybe you should look at yourself a little harder.
Yeah, because I mean, we're all capable of these things.
It is not people with diagnoses over here and then, you know, like typical, you know,
neurotypical people over here.
That that's like the worst way to look at it.
Yeah, no, honestly.
And it's I just think it's it's really a lack of education.
And I guess that's another another thing I want to say is like the biggest reason I think
why we're doing this is to educate on things like that.
You know, again, that the 10 common myths, like it's lack of education.
If you don't educate yourself on things, you potentially might fear them, right?
So you want to educate yourself as much as you can.
And that's what our I would I'll take that on as my responsibility or our responsibility
to educate people because there is so much stigma behind, oh, that person's crazy or
that person's psychotic.
Like, I hate when people are described as those words because that's not accurate, you
know, and just because, again, someone has a diagnosis does not mean that they're going
to be dangerous or, you know, violent or any different than you.
Right.
You know, it's just it's just a harsh, you know, mindset to have.
And I hope that a lot of people would be empathetic, especially after like this episode to just
keep an open mind that that's not like a diagnosis is not a death sentence.
It's not the end of the world.
Like you can still have a wonderful life, you know, moving forward, treatment is very
necessary in some cases.
But I mean, everyone's completely different.
Everyone's situation is different.
I feel like we've we've I feel like we've been talking to the neurotypical people, but
I want to talk to my neurodivergence because if you don't get what you need from someone,
maybe they're not the person you should be around.
And if you are being called crazy or nuts or psychotic or whatever, or you need medication,
you need there's a way to go about that.
That's not the right way.
And if you feel like you're being treated that way, maybe they're not the person to
be around for you for your mental health, because it is very important to us, your mental health.
Exactly.
I was on Instagram earlier as well.
I just want to say this.
This influencer had a really great quote and I don't I won't say it verbatim, but essentially
what he was saying was it is perfectly OK for people to dislike you as long as you're
being your authentic self.
Because when you're your authentic self, if someone is disliking that, then you don't
need them in your life.
Right.
So that is something that really hit me hit home for me today.
I was like, you know what?
That's absolutely right.
Like, I'm not going to change myself for anybody.
I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not or something I'm not.
If people don't like that, then people don't like that.
You know, not everyone's going to love you.
All you can do is just be true to yourself.
That's true because if you think about it, if you're not being your authentic self, then
what are what are they attracted to?
And it is so much more rewarding to be your authentic self and then someone be attracted
to you because exactly, you know, exactly.
One of my other favorite quotes.
I'll just close with this one.
I know it's not even my mental breakdown, but I want to say this as well.
I love saying I'm not going to water myself down to make myself more digestible for you.
You can choke.
Thank you very much.
That's one of my favorite scenes.
It's a scene because I love you.
Bye.
No, but thank you guys for hanging out with us today.
That was a really great mental breakdown.
Thanks.
Yeah, it was it was brief, but I think we got we got to chat.
We did get to chat.
We got to chat and we got to chat with y'all and yeah, we just really appreciate y'all's
support and really understanding what we're trying to accomplish here and being supporters
of that.
Of course.
And hopefully that is our authentic selves.
Of course it is.
And you know, one other thing I keep saying one other thing.
Let me just pepper this last thing in there that will stop.
I know it's not my mental breakdown.
I know.
It's the real world.
We'd love to hear feedback from you guys on we were actually talking about this earlier.
Do you guys like the amount of banter that we have now?
Do you think that we don't banter enough?
Do you think we banter too much?
Please let us know because honestly, like we just kind of do our thing.
We just kind of talk.
We get sidetracked very rarely, I think.
I feel like usually when we get sidetracked, it's really brief.
And then we get right back onto the case, which is the way that we've always done it.
If you guys want to hear more about us, I'm happy to share.
I don't know if I'm going to speak for both of us, but things like this where we're both
just really having a conversation and just being open and honest about what we're thinking
and what we're feeling.
And you know, I like those kind of conversations.
So let us know if you guys like something like this, maybe we can do something a little
similar or next mental breakdown or something.
And yeah, we'll go from there.
We also need to do another DAK live.
I really am thinking about that.
Yeah, DAK live would be really fun.
I think it would be cool.
I don't know who our guest would be.
We'll have to let you guys know.
We will have to see.
All right, well, we will see you guys next time with another case.
Thanks for joining us.
All right.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
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