Hello!
How's it going?
Oh, thank you for asking.
It's going well.
Good, I'm glad.
Like, I'm the one that usually asks that.
How's it going?
I'm Koelle.
I'm Kenna.
Welcome to another episode of Diagnosing It Killer.
The not mental breakdown edition.
I was about to say that, but it's not.
It's not the mental breakdown.
It's just a regular old case.
Tis a case.
This person we're going to talk about today.
A doozy.
Like a doozy and a half.
A doozy and a half.
Yeah, like this person is, and it's not necessarily that they had like, well, I don't know, you'll
see.
She's just a piece of work.
Okay, well she said she, so a fuller shadowing.
Before we get started, I do just want to say that we have reached 11,000 downloads.
Woohoo!
It's really exciting.
Thank you guys for continuously downloading our podcast and listening to us and subscribing
and messaging us, reaching out to us, et cetera.
Spreading the word.
Yeah, absolutely.
I do have another Instagram post or message actually that we got.
I'd like to share.
It is from a new podcast called Caffeinated Crime Podcast.
They do not have any episodes out yet, but there is an Instagram account and it looks
like it's hosted in the bio.
It says, Bioperson and Annie.
So, it says, runs purely on caffeine.
So that'll be fun.
There's no episodes out yet, but I do want to say that they reached out to us and the
message is as follows.
Hey y'all, just listen to your first episode, smiley face.
It was so very good.
I appreciate your awareness and thoughtfulness of the mental health issues presented in this
case.
Just wanted to give you a quick message and say thank you.
Y'all are doing great with the little like party emoji.
Awesome.
Thank you very much for the kind words.
I know I responded to you so you can read that as well, but it's just cool to like know
the mental health plus the true crime is what's really like keeping people around because
they really like the mental health and mental illness advocacy and things like that.
So, that's why we're here.
Well, that's exciting.
And I think again, like I said earlier, word of mouth.
You guys do such a great job about talking about it and I hear it in conversations sometimes
when we're out and about and it's really nice.
So thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I'm just bringing it up every time I meet someone new, but like it just happens
to come out and especially because we have the QR codes on our back of our phones.
And so everyone's like, oh, what's that on your phone?
What's that on your phone?
And so of course it comes up in conversation, but it's really nice when like I'm out with
some friends and we meet some new people and then my friends rather than me are like, oh,
look, have you heard about Kenneth's podcast?
Have you ever been a kid and cool podcast?
So it's cool that everyone else is helping us spread the word as well.
So yeah, I just wanted to pepper those things in there.
If you did not have us on social media, you can follow us on anywhere at diagnosing a killer.
Twitter is at killer diagnosis.
And if you want to donate to the Patreon, that gives us more time to create content for you guys.
We've been actually doing really good about putting out two episodes a week.
I'm really proud of us.
But continue to donate to the Patreon.
Email us, please let us know if you guys want to hear anything.
And yeah, I think that's all I had to say.
You want to get on into the case.
Today we're going to be talking about a one Amy Bishop.
Amy Bishop.
Okay.
All right.
Okay.
Just follow me.
Follow me.
Okay.
Amy Bishop was born April 24th, 1965.
Amy was the first child of her parents, Samuel and Judith Bishop.
Oh, Judith.
Last episode was for Gary Ridgway's ex-wife or he was married when he got caught.
Oh, Judith.
Judith.
Exactly.
So the three lived in Iowa City, Iowa and her father was actually pursuing a fine arts
degree at the time that Amy was born.
Her brother, Seth, was born a few years later on April 9th, 1968.
After the family had Seth, they moved to Braintree, Massachusetts.
I spelt it M-A-S-S-A-T-U-R-C-H-E-S-T.
Massarchoo shirts.
Massachoo chest.
Not much is to be said about the family itself during these early years.
But Samuel, Amy and Seth's father, he was actually a professor for the University of
Boston in the art department.
So the two kind of grew up in this educationally driven household.
Amy grew up with severe asthma and began to become interested in science and genetics
at a very young age.
Although Amy was a smart girl, it always seemed like Seth, her brother, excelled in almost
anything he did.
Oh, of course.
Of course.
By the time that Amy was in high school, she began to feel like most of her parents'
focus was put onto her younger brother, Seth.
Seth was a part of the high school rifle team and was all around successful in his academics.
He won several math and science awards throughout his high school career.
Oh no, another sibling gets all the praise.
Of course.
These start like that.
Amy had trouble maintaining friendships and although her grades were also good, she never
fell up to par with Seth.
While in high school, Amy had played the violin, but Seth, of course, had a passion for violin.
And he actually played in the Greater Boston Youth Symphony and Orchestra.
So it's like, you played the violin, but I played it a little bit better.
But a little bit better.
Right?
Eventually, she graduated from Braintree High School and began attending Northeastern University
where her dad was actually teaching.
Okay.
Shortly after Amy had begun college, she met a young man by the name of Jimmy Anderson.
Jimmy was also interested in the sciences as he was studying biology, so the pair kind
of hit it off almost immediately.
They also had quite a bit of common.
When meeting Jimmy's family, they found it odd when Amy referred to him as James because
Jimmy was his legal name.
James was not.
Okay.
And they thought it was really interesting.
He was actually a junior.
He was Jimmy Jr.
His dad was Jimmy Sr.
But isn't James a nickname for Jimmy?
But that wasn't his legal name.
So?
Well, that's like when you call Clay Clayton.
His name is just Clay.
It's not Clayton.
I know.
I do that on purpose to mess with it because it doesn't like it.
Right.
But that's what I'm saying.
So she used to call him or she would call him James.
Like against his wanting?
Even when Jimmy Sr. asked why she insisted on calling him James, Jimmy Jr. answered with
quote, she doesn't want people to think I'm a southern redneck end quote.
She thought it sounded unprofessional.
Jimmy?
Jimmy.
Oh, no.
Shout out.
My friend Austin, he has an English Bulldog.
His name is Jimmy.
Jimmy.
And he's so damn cute.
But okay, so if you're okay with me saying this on the podcast, you have a friend named
James and you call him Jimmy or vice versa.
So what's this?
All of his girlfriends.
All of his girlfriends called him James though, for the most part.
None of his like, sorry, James.
And his name is James.
And you call him Jimmy?
I call him Jimmy.
Why?
Because it's short for James.
The James isn't short for Jimmy.
I see.
I was confused.
I thought it was like interchangeable.
That's why I was not interchangeable, but I thought it was the other way around.
And I was like, why is that weird that she's calling him James?
I see.
His name isn't James.
Yeah, exactly.
I was saying like, no, my name's Ricky, but you insist on calling me Richard.
You know?
Like, like that's when people call me McKenna.
Yeah.
And I'm like, that's not my name.
They think they're clever.
They're like, oh, McKenna.
Like that would be funny if that was actually my real name.
My full name is Kenna.
It's just Kenna.
It's not McKenna.
Okay, I get it.
I get it.
But yeah, that's really, that's kind of fucked up.
She's like, oh, Jim Baum over here sounds too redneck.
Yeah, you sound like a redneck.
God, that's awful.
I'm going to call you James.
Because it sounds professional.
Yeah, James.
I'm going to take it upon myself to give you a more professional name because I think
it needs, okay.
She's already controlling what I want.
Exactly.
When Amy brought Jimmy home to her family, Seth almost kind of scoffed.
He wasn't really impressed by Jimmy and furthermore, he actually tried to convince his sister
that some of her extracurriculars, because she was now going to college, weren't going
to make her popular and yield her in a new friends, namely the D&D club that she entered.
So she was very nerdy.
Yeah, and Seth was like, well, Seth was like, he plays-
Well, I mean, it's cool now because of nerd culture.
He plays the violin.
Sure.
So he also has a quirk that is not necessarily aligned with a young male, but any, especially
in the 50s, you know?
Anything he touches turns to gold.
Oh, okay.
So Seth graduated from Braintree High School in 1968 and he applied and was accepted to
Northeastern University in Boston where his dad taught and where his sister was going.
How excited do you think Amy was?
Oh, she was probably pissed.
And it sounds like he's like trying to one up her.
He's going to the school with her on purpose so that he can make himself look better.
That's interesting.
It's an interesting thought.
Maybe we're thinking a little along the lines like Amy does.
So he focused on electrical engineering while he was at Northeastern University of Boston.
Amy, now 21 years old, was still living at home and also attending Northeastern University,
which of course Amy was like, yay, great, my brother's hanging out with me every day.
People around campus were really shocked that Amy and Seth were actually brother and sister.
Amy was quite reserved and quiet and nerdy and geeky when Seth was this Camaro driving
smart, witty, outgoing young man.
That's 100s.
And he was adorable.
Was he?
Oh, he was adorable.
He was adorable.
Seth wasn't a narcissist though.
Seeing how upset it made Amy on some occasions, he actually started to stop talking about
his successes as often to make her feel better and to not make her feel bad.
Okay, that's kind of sad because you shouldn't have to dim your light to make someone else
feel better.
One Christmas, he actually asked his parents to not get him anything because he just wanted
to enjoy the holiday without stuff just with his family.
He was a really humble guy.
Damn.
Yeah.
He just happened to be great at everything.
Yeah, it's not his fault.
He almost, it almost seemed like these gestures, however, only upset Amy more.
Like she was like, oh, he's such a great guy.
He's so humble.
On top of him being great at everything, he's also great at being a human, right?
Sounds like she's just jealous of everything.
She is.
Sometime in 1985, the house had been burglarized and Amy became increasingly paranoid about
burglars getting into the house.
So then, of course, fast forward, this has been like the first semester that Seth is
at Northeastern University.
Amy is due to graduate the upcoming spring, but this is December, 1986.
Amy was home alone while her brother went grocery shopping and her parents were out
for the day.
When Seth arrived home, he ran into his mother who had just arrived at the house at the same
time.
Judith began helping Seth into the house with groceries.
While the two were setting groceries down on the countertop, Amy called to her brother
to help her with something.
Amy had, while in the house by herself, went to her father's closet, which had a 12 gauge
shotgun inside of it.
The gun was actually a gift to Seth because he was on the rifle team.
This is, yeah.
Wait, it was a gift that he never received because he didn't want Christmas gifts, or
it was a gift he would receive in the future.
Well he was on the rifle team in high school, and so it had been a gift to Seth.
Oh, I see.
Amy had loaded the gun after she claimed hearing something inside of the house because she
thought maybe it was a burglar, and she had already shot the gun inside of her room, seeming
to test it out or possibly scare away a robber.
So this is before anybody arrived home.
But now that she knew that her family was in the house, she didn't know how to unload
it.
Amy began to say, I need help unloading this as she raised the gun up to pass it to her
brother.
No.
Seth began to say don't point it at anyone when he reached his hands out, the gun went
off, and he was shot in the chest.
The gun did not go off.
Amy pulled the trigger.
Guns do not go off unless someone pulls the trigger.
Judith claimed that she witnessed the entire shooting and immediately called 911.
She also claimed that Amy immediately ran outside to look for help from a neighbor,
a neighbor next door or something that was a nurse, and Judith had claimed that Amy was
yelling this person's name down the street.
When police arrived, however, Amy was nowhere to be found and neither was the shotgun.
Just suspicious.
They just fled the scene of her own crime.
With the murder weapon.
Yeah.
There were reports in the area that a young lady brandishing a gun was trying to flag
down or threaten passing motorists.
That's the opposite of what her mom said that she did.
Right?
Quite the opposite is happening.
Seth was rushed to a local hospital where he would succumb to his injuries.
Oh my god.
He probably got shot in the face, right?
Because he had his hands in his chest.
In his chest.
Oh my god.
He was 18.
Oh my gosh.
The police was eventually located at a service station down the street when employees said
that she had tried to take a car at gunpoint.
After police interviewed both Amy and Judith, Seth's death was ruled an accidental death.
The parents are definitely in on this shit.
What made her like randomly decide seemingly to just like shoot her brother?
Cause like, well, she's not dumb.
Like she knows probably enough about guns.
She knew how to load it.
Well it was always something that like her dad and like Seth had like kind of done together.
So it wasn't really like something that she knew about.
But mysteriously, cause they had like taken pictures of like the crime scene and stuff,
crime scene, quote unquote.
They had taken a picture of the hole in Amy's wall in her bedroom and in this photo, you
can see like this magazine article about someone who had committed a similar crime, that they
had shot and killed someone and that they had ran away from the location and used the
gun to hide, car jack someone and then flee the scene and then like wasn't found or something
for a while.
So it was almost like she read this and then like gained inspiration to do this.
Like copycat.
Yeah.
But I feel like, I feel like that's so, I don't want to say random cause obviously
she was harboring these feelings of like rage towards her brother.
But like seemingly decent childhood, like seemingly decent home life, you know, she's
just I guess jealous of her brother.
But like, I feel like if it was a long thought out, not a long, a long kind of like stacking
on top of itself rage, it would have been more thought out than that.
So I don't know like how long she'd been stewing about it.
But when I, in my opinion, what I think happened was that she knew that her parents were gone
for the day and she maybe didn't expect because in her mind, remember that Seth and Judith
showed up at the house at the same time.
I think that maybe she might have looked out a window or whatever and saw that he pulled
up and then started making her way downstairs.
And then when Judith pulls up, she's thinking that he's the only person around.
Yeah.
Cause I, my, my other thought was why wouldn't she have tried to do it away from her parents?
Like if she knew her mom was downstairs, why would she do that?
Right.
And so what I'm thinking is that maybe she didn't think that Judith was in the house
too, just Seth, because it sounded like one person came home.
Oh, okay.
Two people.
Does that make more sense?
Yeah.
No, definitely.
Okay.
So the second half of that is the fact that Judith knew the police chief very, very well
and was a staunch like supporter of his and had donated quite a bit of money and all
this other stuff.
So they get Amy, they take her down to the station.
While she's being interviewed, police chief walks in and is like, interviews over, she
can go home and just lets Amy leave with Judith.
So do you think that Amy like kind of knew that they could make it seem like it was an
accident or at the very least she would get like off on like something really minor because
of her mom's relationship with the police chief?
Probably.
I think that she knew that after a while.
Like I don't think that she thought about that in the moment, but it just happened to
work out that way.
Yeah.
That was completely different than what I thought was going to happen.
Go ahead.
Isn't that crazy?
That is wild.
And it was really soon.
Like it was just like all of a sudden it seems.
Neighbors were absolutely shocked that Seth had died in the way that he did.
He was such a good kid.
But furthermore, locals were absolutely bothered that Amy acted the way that she did with no
consequences.
And after the fact too, if she was like sobbing and actually screaming for the neighbor and
stuff, that's one thing.
But the fact that she just fucking like, the dipset, she's like bye.
She's like bye.
She's like waving guns around at neighbors or whatever.
Carjack people.
What the fuck?
Everyone trusted though that the police had done their due diligence and had done their
job.
But again, everybody deals with panic differently.
Maybe she just had a death grip on that gun and was just like, ah, you know, and there's
I don't know, running around waiting.
Or maybe it's like a lot of our other cases where the police are like, no, for the need
to investigate.
And then they later get like the same person for like multiple homicide.
Yeah.
Okay, maybe I should have investigated more.
Check this out.
Just two weeks after Seth's death, Amy and Jimmy went to go visit Jimmy's parents.
It wasn't until much later in the evening that the couple would even bring up Seth's
death to which Jimmy's parents were taken off guard by because they hadn't heard about
what happened.
Oh, by the way, my brother died.
Did you hear?
I shot him.
I killed him.
On accident.
But it was an accident.
Did you hear?
She was probably trying to get ahead of it before they heard.
And they were like, why didn't you fucking tell me?
Because she should have said that the first thing that she fucking told me.
Or maybe Jimmy should have said that.
Yeah.
Right?
It's creepy.
Just to let you guys know, like, you know, her brother dies.
Like don't bring it up or whatever, you know.
Yeah, exactly.
Further raising eyebrows, the couple would actually get married just four months later
in April 1987.
There it is.
In the very same church that Seth had his funeral.
Ew.
That is so fucking gross.
Fucking awful.
And everyone was like four months.
Four months.
Did people show up?
I don't fucking know.
And they were just like, yeah, this checks out.
This makes sense.
Isn't that creepy?
Ew.
Is Jimmy like in on it?
I mean, he has to be.
I don't know.
What the fuck was that?
Did you hear that noise?
What?
I don't know.
I thought I heard.
Every time I record, I feel like I hear a weird noise.
I know, me too.
Every time.
All right, go ahead.
Amy was due to graduate after that spring semester to which she kept that promise to herself,
not taking a single day off for bereavement after Seth's death.
Choosing not to change her last name, she called herself future Dr. Amy Bishop.
Like didn't take Anderson.
Gagged me.
She's like, no, that's reserved because like, yeah.
You are only, not only.
It's very common to keep your maiden name if you got that title when you had your maiden
name, but you're not changing it on purpose so that you can keep that as your maiden name.
Exactly.
And it doesn't, again, it's not like every woman has to take the last name.
They don't.
Okay.
Yeah, absolutely.
But still, it was like she said to Jimmy, I'm not going to take your last name because
I want my last name when I get my doctorate.
Fine.
Okay, that's fine.
I thought you meant like she, yeah.
Okay.
No, yeah.
It's a little narcissistic.
I'm just saying.
It's fine.
Do you, girl?
Do you?
The couple would graduate together that spring 1987.
Amy had actually written a thesis while in her graduating year that Harvard had actually
taken notice of.
And with this, Amy decided to apply and would be accepted to Harvard for the following fall
semester.
What was the thesis about?
How did I kill my brother and got away with it?
I didn't do it, but if I did, Jimmy had no choice but to follow Amy, who would pursue
a PhD in genetics?
Amy would.
Damn, that's like intense.
Well, that's again, that was kind of like her passion because like I said, she had grown
up with asthma and like things like that.
And was looking towards, you know, genetics and she had a really an interest at that at
a young age.
I guess I blacked out when you said that because I don't remember seeing that.
It was when I was talking really, really fast.
Oh, well, I'm not going to put me telling you to slow down in the podcast.
I'll say it again.
Okay.
Amy would never let anyone forget that she was going to Harvard.
She would constantly talk about it with family, friends and colleagues.
She introduced herself to people as Dr. Amy Bishop, Harvard trained.
Hi, I'm Dr. Amy Bishop, Harvard trained.
Yeah.
I immediately know I'd be like, you don't need to know my name.
We're not friends.
Okay.
Bye.
That is very great for you.
I'm leaving.
That's great.
I'm going to keep calling him Jimmy, I am not going to call him James.
No, don't do that.
It's hilarious.
Jimmy would keep busy with various biology projects at Harvard kind of, but mostly he
supported Amy and her future and her career.
Just like she wants.
Just like she always wanted.
Eventually Jimmy would quit work and university related projects to become a stay at home
dad.
Over the course of the next several years, Amy and Jimmy would welcome their daughter,
all this daughter, Lily, and then two more girls.
While Amy, this is all while Amy was finishing her doctorates.
I just said the two other girls because they didn't really name them, but yeah.
She didn't take any days off for pregnancy.
No, she probably didn't.
She probably didn't in the classroom and then just kept going.
Exactly.
Sure.
Yeah.
No days off for me.
In order to receive her PhD, Amy needed to write a dissertation.
Bear with me.
No.
The dissertation was titled The Role of Mesothation in Respiratory Births and Pheagocytes.
Pheagocytes.
Something like that.
You got it.
It's fine.
Is that fine?
Yeah.
It's something like that.
It's a real page turner.
Clearly.
It's a real page turner.
It was actually 137 pages in length.
God.
And in her acknowledgments, she states, quote, Bear with me on this one too.
I would like to thank my thesis advisor, Dr. Paul Gallup, for his enthusiasm, insight,
and willingness to spend hours listening to my ideas and his presenting his own.
Harvard-Trait.
Dr. Paul Gallup not only concerned himself with my scientific development but cared about
me as a person.
I would like to thank Dr. Mercedes-Paz for her support and being a positive role model.
The rest of the Gallup lab, Vladimir, Rudolph, and Sylvia, as well as Ed, Henson, were valued
colleagues.
I would like to thank my thesis committee chairman, Dr. Manfred Kamomsky, for his calming influence
and for keeping me focused.
I would like to thank my best friend, Barbara Burroughs, for her optimism.
The graduate experience of my closest friend, David LaTour, gave my emotions and experiences
as a graduate student perspective, and for that I am grateful.
I am particularly indebted to my mother, Judith Bishop.
Judith.
The fuck is Judith?
Judith Bishop for moral support and for watching my daughter, Lily, while I worked in the lab.
I am also indebted to my father, Samuel Bishop, as well as my grandmother, Theano, and my
aunt Rose for their unwavering faith in my ability to graduate.
Finally, I would like to thank my husband, Jim Anderson.
Calls him Jim.
Love it.
I was waiting for her to not thank him in there.
I know, me too.
For graphics, tight-setting, computer assistance, and midnight cups of coffee.
Not for watching my three children while I am in school 24-7.
This thesis is dedicated to my brother, Seth Morrison Bishop.
No.
Straight up.
End quote.
Who I murdered.
Who I fucking murdered.
And I'm still walking the street.
She dedicated the thesis to him, or the dissertation to him.
Yep.
Yep, that's disgusting.
And I guarantee, like, everyone around her was like, oh, that's so sweet.
She probably convinced them.
My point in reading all that is I get that it's like acknowledgments, like you're supposed
to acknowledge the people, but it sounded just like name dropping.
It sounded like a lot of name dropping.
I'm like, look at what a good person I am.
You know?
The cross-dise.
I didn't kill my brother.
You know?
This is the memory of him.
Yeah.
Even though I didn't take a day off to grieve him.
And I had my marriage in his funeral church four months later.
Seems legit.
Yeah.
People hated the dissertation.
Yeah.
And many of her colleagues found the paper to be written unprofessionally, and the overall
subject matter kind of an easy target to hit.
Yikes.
Although Amy would receive her doctorates, many referred to this controversy as, quote,
local scandal number one, end quote.
Damn, this place didn't have any other local scandals.
No, it was the biggest one.
I thought it was like the first one.
No, it's just the biggest one, number one, yeah.
Either way, Amy was accepted to a fellowship at Harvard to the Desmaosum.
Most notably, her supervisor, Dr. Rosenberg.
He was a medical professor and a physician at the Children's Hospital at Boston, where
he and Amy worked together in the neurobiology department.
Rosenberg found Amy difficult to work with, citing that on more than a few occasions,
Amy would get into verbal altercations with several colleagues.
Like regularly.
He was given a copy of Amy's dissertation by Amy and was asked to review it and give
his professional opinion on it.
Here, read this 137-page document that I already utilized and graduated because of.
But read it just for shits and giggles, please.
No, read it because I want you to tell me how amazing I am.
Yeah, exactly.
Of course Rosenberg agreed that it lacked certain aspects typically required of a PhD
dissertation.
And when did he die?
After some time.
No, of course.
I was kidding.
After some time.
Rosenberg was to give Amy a professional evaluation, which outlined some of the doctor's concerns
regarding Amy's performance, stating that Amy, quote, couldn't meet the standards required
for the work.
No.
And asked for Amy's resignation over him discontinuing her fellowship instead.
So like, I will discontinue her fellowship or you can resign.
He literally was like, yeah, you would have been fine in this program if you hadn't shown
me that piece of absolute dog shit.
Now I know you're bragging.
I know that you're trash at this.
Yeah, I can no longer attend this fellowship.
And also you're a bitch to like everyone.
Yeah.
So Amy agreed to the resignation.
That's surprising.
On December 19, 1993, Dr. Rosenberg and his wife were out of town on vacation.
The couple had a family friend arranged to come over to feed their cats while they were
gone.
This cat sitter arrived on the last day that the couple were to be gone and noticed that
there was a package sitting in front of the porch, like on the front porch.
The sitter picked up the package, took it inside and sat it on the counter before feeding
the cats and then leaving.
Just to give you like an overall like what kind of time we're talking about here.
During this time, the unabomber was still active.
I was just thinking the unabomber and had been since 1978.
Now this is 1993 and I did not realize Ted Kaczynski was doing that for that long.
But Ted Kaczynski was still at large and his MO at the time had been going for some time
and he usually targeted universities and airports or airlines, hence UNE, like University A,
Airlines Bomber.
So when Dr. Rosenberg and his wife returned to their home and saw the package inside their
home when they hadn't expected anything, he was immediately cautious.
Dr. Rosenberg decided to take a knife and cut a hole at the very center of the top
of the box instead of opening the package like normal.
When he did and he was able to peek inside, he saw wires and he called police.
So he totally saved him and his wife's life.
That's so fucking scary.
Because it was a homemade bomb.
The ATF arrived along with a detonation team to remove the bomb.
It was disposed of and it was essentially a failed bombing.
I bet she was like meh.
Meh.
Well, we'll get to it.
Witnesses approached the ATF with information that they overheard or had engaged in a conversation
with Jimmy Anderson, Amy's husband, in which he had stated that he hated Rosenberg for
forcing his wife to leave as she was the sole breadwinner and that he wanted to quote, shoot,
stab, bomb, or strangle Rosenberg and quote.
This fucking dumbass.
Right?
Yeah, just go ahead and like purge yourself.
Fucking.
Well, this was never substantiated and in fact the police had nothing but circumstantial
evidence relating Amy and Jimmy potentially to this attempted pipe bombing.
And the case was eventually closed after several months.
Although it would be confirmed that the pipe bomb was not that of the unibomber.
Yeah.
So who the fuck was it?
Jimmeth, perhaps?
Jimmeth?
It's his eye.
Jimmeth.
After all of this cooled off, Amy decided to start finding work again.
She bounced around several labs but would always end up quitting or getting fired since she
didn't work well with others.
Oh, interesting.
She does not work well with others.
Because she has to be the leader and if she's not the leader then there's a problem.
She should probably get into tennis then if she doesn't want to do a team base work.
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to life.
She would accuse people of stealing her work or ideas, still berating people and insisting
that she alone was the superior person on the team or in the lab.
In 2001, Amy and Jimmy would welcome their youngest son, a boy named Seth, after her late
brother.
Fuck off.
I'm not even kidding.
That is so gross and the fact that she's like, only British murder was an accidental
death.
Now I'm going to reincarnate him and live on with my son and his name.
He turns British even more weirder than that.
He was actually born on Seth's birthday.
Oh, that's really kind of weird like reincarnation thing.
It's terrifying.
When he got older, was he like, why'd you kill me?
Like as a child.
What is that creepy thing?
In 2002, the family of six decided to go eat at an iHop.
When the family was seated, Amy asked for a high chair or booster seat for one of the
kids.
A waitress apologized as the last booster seat had actually been given to the family
that was seated right before this family.
No, they shouldn't have done that.
She's a man done that.
Don't fuck up.
Amy wasn't having any of this.
She flew into a rage first at the waitress stating that she was Dr. Amy Bishop from Harvard
and she demanded a booster seat.
Harvard train.
Fire, but train.
Then Amy actually approached the family that had the last booster seat.
She demanded that the mother give up her child's seat and the mother was like, are you insane?
Yeah, literally.
Amy lunged at the little girl that was sitting in the seat and tried to snatch the seat from
underneath the little girl.
Not even kidding.
She's really litter fall.
Harvard, she didn't care.
She's Harvard trained.
When the girl's mother tried to defend her daughter, Amy began to punch the woman in
the face and head while yelling, I'm Dr. Amy Bishop.
I'm not even kidding.
It sounds so stupid.
I'm not even kidding.
I'm Dr. Amy Bishop.
Like screaming while she's punching this woman in front of her children.
In front of Amy's children.
In front of fucking you.
Like there's a lot of people that are fucking doctors in this world.
You know, Shaq has a fucking doctorate.
All right, if you really want to get technical Shaquille O'Neal has a fucking doctorate.
He doesn't go around screaming at the fact that he has a doctorate.
But is he Harvard trained?
No, that's the real world.
No, I didn't think he's Harvard trained.
You know what?
She's an Ivy League school.
Come to think of it, she's right.
She's Harvard trained.
She just has to do whatever she wants.
So true.
She can push little children over and steal their booster seats.
Oh, bad.
So yes, she was actually arrested and taken to jail for assault on this woman.
She battered the shit out of this woman in front of a restaurant.
This poor lady was just trying to have breakfast with her family.
Could you imagine like you're sitting there and is like, I need that bastard saying hi,
hi, hi, hi, right.
And you're like, I'm sorry fucking what?
No thanks.
I need to donate to the funds.
Thank you.
Pancakes halfway in your mouth.
You know, like I'm sorry fucking what?
It's crazy.
Amy entered an Alfred plea in order to receive a lesser sentence of probation plus anger
management classes.
What is an Alfred plea?
An Alfred plea is when you, you're not necessarily saying that you are.
You are pleading guilty, but you understand that the evidence that's put forth against
you is enough to convict you.
Oh, so you're not pleading guilty, but you're not pleading not guilty.
Right.
But it's kind of like a no contest, but not really.
Yeah.
Like a no contest is like, I just don't feel like fighting it.
You could have evidence against me.
I don't want to go through a trial process kind of with an Alfred plea is like an Alfred
plea.
They'll show you all the evidence they have against you and then you just plead like
Alfred.
Yeah, you say that.
How does a defendant plead?
Alfred.
All right, move on.
Once Amy's probation was up, the family was looking for a new start.
Clearly.
Like everybody knows I'm insane in this, in this town.
I'm just going to leave.
Well, shit.
Like now that, okay, if it doesn't fucking ring any bells before with her brother, I
had to pick up, sorry, this intense outburst of a random fucking stranger because of a
booster seat.
Should be, should be.
Yeah, she's I have like the weird burps.
Like I can't burp, but I have like the bubble, like the air.
I hate that.
Yeah.
A fun fact for anyone listening that doesn't know me in person.
I can't burp.
It's true.
And she has to throw up.
I don't throw up.
I have to like essentially throw up and nothing comes out.
She's like, it's just air.
Really bad.
If anyone else has that problem, email me because I feel like I'm lonely.
Lonely.
All right, go ahead.
Amy applied at the University of Huntsville in Alabama as an assistant professor.
And although it was a coveted job, Amy seemed flippant about her position there.
She was just like, whatever.
It's not Harvard.
I went to Harvard.
This is below me, right?
Once again, Amy's reputation was to follow her in this role as well.
It doesn't matter where the fuck you go.
The place isn't the problem.
You were the problem.
You're the problem.
Her peers would often say she was aloof and strange in meetings.
She would go off on tangents that had nothing to do with topics at hand, seemingly to hog
the meetings and control whatever was being talked about while maintaining focus on herself.
I can diagnose her.
Yeah, we're gonna.
We are gonna.
Starting up to 2009, Amy was seen as one of the worst performing professors at UAH.
She would be argumentative with students when they asked for help.
She would.
I'm sorry, your job.
Yeah.
You can mad at students for needing help.
She would constantly ask for transfers for students to be placed in other classes or
dismiss students from her lab, kicking them out for the day.
Like just getting irate with students for asking questions.
Like again, your fucking job, what you signed up for.
Students.
What did you get paid to do?
Students began to notice that she never really answered any of the questions that they posed.
And I'm sure this upset Amy not knowing the answers.
Of course.
It got so bad that a large group of students signed a petition to request Dr. Amy Bishop
be removed from the campus as a professor saying that she was, quote, ineffective in
the classroom and odd unsettling ways that she would handle her classroom.
Oh my God.
Mass shooting at the school.
This did not convince the university.
No.
Stop.
I was kidding again.
This did not convince the university, however, and they kept Amy in their biology department
until 2009.
In March 2009.
She still worked there.
Yes.
She still did.
Okay.
So that was just kind of like a breakdown from like 2000.
I think she started in like 2003 for like five, six years.
That was just kind of the reputation that she started building for herself is that she
was a shitty professor.
Well that's kind of lame that like the university like didn't take all those students seriously.
However in March of 2009, Amy was informed that due to her performance, the university
would be denying her tenure and that this upcoming school year was to be her last at
UAH.
The university gave her until March 2010 to find another position somewhere else.
Amy was livid of course.
Uh, yeah.
This is now the second time she's been fired because of her own actions.
No one else's.
Right.
She was convinced that there was some kind of a coup between the staff and that the
staff just didn't like her.
She appealed the denial of her tenure after she heard that a fellow biology professor
called her crazy.
Amy filed a case with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission saying that she was
discriminated against because she was a woman and that this professor saying that she was
crazy was like kind of proof that this was discrimination.
Yeah.
When asked if this professor had said things like this, he actually doubled down and was
like shit, yeah I said those things.
He was-
Say I'm fun care.
He didn't fun care.
He was quoted and saying quote, I said she was crazy multiple times and I stand by that.
This woman has a pattern of erratic behavior.
She did things that weren't really normal.
She's just very out of touch with reality end quote.
Spit and fax.
Yeah.
Spit and fax.
Like hashtag for women.
He doesn't just work in the biology department, he works in the psychology department.
Both Amy and Jimmy decided to fight against this denial of her tenure.
Jimmy's just hanging out this whole time.
He is.
They even hired a lawyer to handle the case.
Both were confident that the denial would be overturned.
Yeah, after a thorough investigation, it was determined that the university worked well
with its rights to not accept Amy back for the following year.
And then the denial of tenure was actually sustained.
The thing is is that she clearly has this mindset of like there is no way that it's
me.
Like I'm not the problem.
Right.
I have to find what the problem is because there's absolutely no way in hell that it's
me.
Right.
Same thing with the other place that she left, whatever.
There's no way that it's me.
Who else messed up?
Why?
You know?
And then the professional, it's going to be crazy.
That's why they're not giving me tenure.
Not because I fucked up or I haven't been for the last time.
Because I'm a woman and I'm in the sciences, therefore I am crazy.
Like that's what she's trying to say.
They're saying, you know?
No, you're not teaching the students anything.
Yeah.
And you don't seem to like understand that it's your problem, your work ethic, your
whatever.
Like, and if it's too much for you to handle, maybe back up a little bit, you know?
Exactly.
Instead of taking more on.
She's like, they promoted her.
They promoted her to department head of biology.
What?
You ready?
Yes.
On February 12th, 2010, you always know when you pull out like a specific date.
On February 12, 2010, Amy attended her morning classes as usual.
Later in the day, around 3.30, a meeting was scheduled for the biology and neuroscience
department to gather and discuss the upcoming school year.
Amy decided to attend this meeting, which was only a little unusual because she wasn't
going to return after March.
But either way, some people didn't find it odd at all since it was to be her last meeting
there at the university.
And maybe she still wanted to be included and didn't feel, you know, didn't want to
feel excluded because that is still her department, right?
Okay.
Around 4 p.m., almost an hour after the meeting began, Amy suddenly stood up and produced
a 9mm handgun from her lap.
She began firing at her colleagues, starting from the closest to her and so on around the
table.
So we're going to get into the victims of this crime.
Oh my god.
Dr. Gopi Padilla was the first to be shot.
He listed his interests on his bio as quote, engineering tree biomass for bioenergy, functional
genomics of plant-microbe interactions, and plant-molecular biology and biotechnology,
end quote.
Damn.
Very smart man.
Yeah.
Dr. Gopi Padilla left behind his wife, Vanny, and his two young daughters.
He was described as a helpful man who loved culture and the arts and was a major contributor
to the scientific achievements in bioengineering all over the world.
He was just 52.
He was shot down.
Oh.
Dr. Adriel Johnson was a biology professor at UAH with a focus on cell biology and nutritional
physiology.
Faith was very important to Dr. Johnson, and his sense of community drew him to be a leader
amongst young people.
He chose to dedicate his time to the enriching of the lives of people around him through
ministry and his compassion.
Dr. Johnson's life was taken that day at the hands of Amy Bishop.
Left behind was his wife, who was also a doctor, and two sons, one of which bears his namesake.
He was just 52.
Dr. Maria Regland Davis was an assistant professor of molecular biology and plant genetics.
Dr. Davis was excited about grants that she was going to be receiving for research the
following year and had many publications.
She was also looking ahead at some pretty big things.
She had a lot of graduates under her belt.
She was shot and killed that day at age 50.
Dr. Luis Cruz Vera is a Mexico native, and he has a PhD in genetics and molecular biology.
He was an assistant professor who had started at the university just a few years prior.
Today, Dr. Cruz Vera is one of the highest ranking scientists not just in the US, but
in the world.
Oh, wow.
He was at Huntsville, although he briefly left in 2014, but returned later that year.
And he has resumed teaching a week just after the shooting, like he was shot in the chest
and he returned a week later.
And he is still alive today.
Dr. Joseph Leahy was dedicated to his faith and to his family with a wife and two boys.
He was a microbiologist and started at the university in 1993.
He was described as approachable and would love to make complicated scientific ideas
accessible and digestible to his students with his fun-loving personality.
That's so sweet.
I love teachers like that.
Me too.
Dr. Leahy was shot in the head, but he would ultimately survive, although he would lose
one of his eyes due to the damage that he suffered.
Oh my gosh.
Dr. Leahy would actually pass seven years later due to a heart attack, but it was not
in relation to the shooting that day.
Wow.
He did survive the shooting.
Stephanie Monticello was Dr. Padilla's assistant and had actually sat in the meeting in order
to take notes for the doctor when Amy began firing.
Oh my gosh.
Being one of the last hit, Stephanie had time to shield her face from the bullet that traveled
through her ring finger and into her head.
She had she not shielded her face, the bullet likely would have killed her, but since the
bullet struck her finger first, it actually ricocheted and landed in her cheek, and it
saved her life.
She too would lose an eye and go through fine motor skill therapy, but would ultimately
make an almost complete recovery.
Wow.
Deborah Moriarty witnessed the entire attack from start to finish, which only lasted a
total of 45 seconds.
I bet that felt like hours.
I bet it did.
That's so fucking scary.
In almost a slow motion movie, Deborah weighed her options as the horror unfolded in front
of her.
She was standing pretty much to the left of Amy.
So Amy started on the right hand side and was going around the room.
She had known Amy for years and was shocked when Amy pulled out a gun.
When everyone started to duck down, Deborah remembers reaching out to Amy to try to get
her to stop or something.
She said about this moment that she felt like if she could just get Amy to look at her,
Amy would snap out of it.
Yeah, I mean, I can understand that way of thinking.
Once Deborah grabbed Amy's leg after kind of ducking, Amy pointed the gun at Deborah.
Deborah began to say, quote, Amy, think about my grandson, think about my daughter, Amy,
you know I've helped you, I will help you again.
It's me, it's me.
She said later, part of my brain thought that she'll go, oh, it's Deb, and then she'll
just stop.
And Amy pulled the trigger, but the gun began to click.
Amy tried to shoot several times each time being met with a click, click, click.
Amy turned and ran out of the room.
A few other professors who had not been hit by gunshots had began to barricade the door.
Dr. Cruz Vera, the one that was shot in the chest, he called 911 because at this time
he hadn't realized that he had been shot.
Bad bitch alert.
Right.
But he did soon realize while he was on the phone with 911 operators and then passed the
phone to someone else.
The professors all began to treat each other's wounds, taking off shirts and dressing each
other.
And Amy started to make her way through the Shelby Center building.
She's just like walking around, like casual.
She had actually hit up a bathroom first, she washed her hands and the gun before throwing
it a trash can and then ultimately exited the building.
Oh my gosh, that Deb, Deb, Deb, Deb was the one that tried to stop her.
How gut-wrenching is that to know that even though you thought she was going to step out
of it, she tried to shoot you even though she wasn't successful.
She would have killed you or at least injured you if she still had bullets.
A lot of people actually credit Deb to making it kind of stop because she interacted with
her and she kind of took the focus off and then just gun jammed.
As she made her way out the building, there was police officers waiting there.
They immediately took her into custody, she didn't get to leave the scene.
By the way, Lily, which is her eldest child, she was 18 at the time of the shootings.
And one of the professors, she was also studying biology and biochemistry, I think.
One of her professors was in the room or was one of the people that were shot.
Oh my gosh.
I didn't specify which one, but eventually she would go back to Huntsville and attend
in the fall.
That's twice as traumatizing for Lily because not only is she experiencing a school shooting,
but it's also a home like her mom.
Oh my gosh.
Her grandfather, which was Samuel Bishop, which was Amy's father, would put out an article
about how difficult it was for the children to move on after that and for them to attend
any school around in the area if your mother was this perpetrator of a school shooting.
Who's to say that someone's not going to come and try to get revenge or whatever?
Yeah, exactly.
So I don't know what happened to Lily, but I didn't want to research too much on the
kids just because I wanted to respect their privacy as well.
Yeah.
Because that's got to be really, really hard.
Yeah, definitely.
Once news broke of the incident, people were shocked.
It is highly unlikely that a woman would commit a mass shooting.
Especially a professor.
In fact, according to an article published by The Guardian, an FBI study once showed
that out of 160 active shooter incidences between 2000 and 2013 found that only six of those
instances or about 4% were perpetrated by a female shooter.
Wow.
So it's very, very rare.
Yeah.
It's really strange that she took out...
Okay, so she was just kind of going back to her brother.
She was an ingrained brother, obviously jealous, whatever, kills him.
And then it's interesting that she...
And she tries to bomb the other, you know, the Harvard guy, the doctor.
It's interesting that she took out her anger on the colleagues and not the dean or whoever
fired her, you know, the...
Yeah.
What's the head of the department or whatever?
Like whoever gave her the option to leave or be fired from the university, it's interesting
she didn't try to just target him.
Right, yeah, or them.
Yeah, I think it's more probably because I think she has this mentality that like specific
people or like institutions are working against her and not necessarily a person, right?
So like...
Yeah.
I mean, it's kind of similar with the waitress thing, right?
Like it's like she could have berated the waitress and then wanted to speak to the manager,
but she didn't.
She took it out on the unsuspecting people.
Yeah, that's true.
You know what I mean?
Like I think that she finds that kind of like weak spot, I guess, because like I guess Rosenbaum
was technically her... Rosenberg, I'm sorry, Rosenberg was technically her supervisor,
so I can get that, but she did it in a very sneaky little bitch way.
Yeah, that's true.
You know what I mean?
Like she didn't try to harm specifically him.
Like she planted a fucking bomb that anybody could pick up.
Like that's bullshit.
Yeah.
Amy's court-appointed lawyer expressed his concern that Amy was... this is a quote, a
paranoid schizophrenic, which we now know is not the correct term.
We know it's schizophrenic spectrum disorder.
With a team of psychologists at her disposal, it was determined that Amy did suffer from
this disorder and was put on medication.
She had also expressed that many times in her life she had had gaps of time missing,
not remembering things that seemed to be bigger things in her life, like specific things that
people would know, or like things that like her mom and her dad would probably know like,
you know, that was like a really big thing and you don't remember that happening, things
like that.
So this kind of inferred that maybe she was experiencing some type of a mental break.
In June it was made public that Amy would be investigated for the 1986 shooting of her
brother and just two days later she would actually try to take her own life in jail.
What?
She was not successful in this attempt.
Amy would plead not guilty by reason of insanity in the murder and attempted murder cases of
the Huntsville shooting.
She eventually opted to take a plea of guilty to be spared the death penalty and in fact
all of the survivors of that meeting that were in that room, because there were also
other people in that room, all of the survivors said that they would also agree not to seek
a death penalty.
Like they didn't want the death penalty to be sought.
And they all knew her.
Exactly.
I think they all knew that she was troubled.
Yeah.
It was a pretty cut and dry case and on September 24th, 2012, Amy was stood in
prison for the death penalty.
She was sentenced to life without parole.
Amy would eventually not stand trial for the suspected murder of her brother, although
the circumstances around the death were a little wonky.
Just what we described earlier about her trying to hold somebody at gunpoint or maybe not
or whatever.
But the truth of the matter is there was only one witness and that witness was her mother,
supposedly.
Yeah.
And Judith testified during the evidentiary hearing that what she witnessed was that Amy
yes, had raised this gun, but her finger wasn't on the trigger is apparently what Judith said.
But because she was the only witness to the crime, they kind of took her word for it.
Yeah.
But again, I repeat.
No, I agree.
The gun doesn't fucking go off unless you pull the trigger.
I agree.
Absolutely.
Unless you're in like the fucking 1800s maybe.
Yeah.
You got a bone stick.
Yeah.
Wow.
So they did forever and for good label Seth's death as an accident.
Wow.
In a crazy turn of events.
No.
On April 18, 2021, Amy's youngest child, Seth Bishop Anderson, at this time 21, was actually
shot and killed by a neighborhood youth while the two were in the car playing with guns
and a moving vehicle with their other friends.
He was shot and killed.
Was he shot in the chest?
I don't know.
I don't think so.
I don't know.
I didn't say.
Either way, this young man has since been arrested and tried for manslaughter.
He was 18 at the time when he accidentally shot Seth.
An accidental shooting.
Wow.
Isn't that bizarre?
Full fucking circle.
That's wild.
You'd think if it was like his reincarnate though, like that Seth would have been like,
I don't like guns, stay away from me.
Well I think it's interesting that Seth made it to 21, but that Amy was 21 when she shot
her brother.
And he was shot by an 18 year old.
I don't like that either.
You know what I mean?
He was 18, she was 21, he was 21, and he was 18.
That's bizarre.
And they share this.
It's very coincidental.
It's so crazy.
That is wild.
Amy is still in prison today.
Her appeals have been denied so far.
There's a Julia Tutwiler's facility for women in Alabama.
She is 56 years old.
That is an intense case.
That is really intense.
There's not like a whole lot to the beginning or like, we don't really know what, it's kind
of like the Stoutie case, right?
We don't really know about Diana before Diana or Amy in those formidable years when you
have a lot of exposure to, I don't know, I guess it was just she grew up in a household
where her dad was really educated and maybe that was like, her goal is to also be educated.
And then here comes her brother.
You know, he's a shithead for being smart, which is ridiculous.
And well, with, you know, schizophrenia spectrum, I will say, and we've talked about this before,
but you know, in case someone hasn't heard those other episodes, I'll just repeat.
It does present itself in the early 20s.
Usually it's actually like the later 20s for women, but it can present itself in the early
20s, which makes sense because she was 21 when this whole almost like mental break happened,
if you will.
It's true.
And she described the paranoia that she felt after the house had been broken into.
And usually, usually it coincides, especially if it's not like genetic, like other people
in our family might have had it.
But you know how we've talked about like epigenetics and like predisposition to developing a disorder
and then like an environmental trauma will like cause that to present itself.
Right.
So usually it's only brought on once the trauma has been experienced, although there's not
that we know of any trauma that happened.
But who knows, there could have been something that she never told anybody that happened,
that happened to her, you know, that caused those symptoms to present themselves or just
age development in general.
Maybe she had gotten it passed on hereditarily and it just presented itself when it comes
out.
And it seems to me like the breaking point, when she got these symptoms, that's what made
her maybe kill Seth or at least like get the gun and kind of, you know, play out that scenario.
Maybe the article, you know, that you said she read and then again, we talk about routine
all the time.
The routine when she was at Harvard maybe helped her keep her urges or her paranoia at bay,
but maybe not her, you know, aggressive tendencies like it's a controlling this.
One thing at the university and then one thing happens and it kind of like pushes the glass
over.
For sure.
Yeah.
I think, you know, like you said with the Harvard thing, I think once she realized that she
didn't have that routine or that maintenance, I guess, then that's when she's like, oh shit,
like I'm going to lose my job here.
I've already lost my job here and I don't have this routine.
And that's when the IHOP thing happened.
That's when the IHOP thing happened.
That's when the bombing happened or the failed bombing.
And then this instance at Huntsville and I think that, yeah, I think it's the fact that
she's like, it's almost like, fuck no, I'm not going to go back there.
You're not going to make me not be in this routine or be in this, you know, position
of control of my life.
Yeah.
Like even down to the kids, like when she was attending Harvard, when she had the kids,
I bet she had a lot of routine, you know?
I mean, she clearly wrote 137 page dissertation.
And clearly a lot of people read it, even though it probably wasn't the best dissertation,
she had the wherewithal to sit down and do that and commit to that.
It was probably likely a lot of routine for her.
Yeah.
And I was actually thinking earlier when you said, you know, the symptoms and stuff that
she was showing, I thought she might have had or potentially been struggling with narcissistic
personality disorder.
I agree.
But now that we're talking about the Schizophrenic spectrum, there's actually a subset of schizophrenia,
which we now know there's a bunch of different types of schizophrenia, and one of them is
that grandiose sense of self.
That's true.
So it might have just been that, you know?
Inductibility, yeah.
Exactly.
My point in saying all that is that's why it's so important to have people advocating
for you, people on your side that are going to help you get help, because when it gets
to this point of untreated, it can now, it's obviously affecting other people, but then
it puts everyone else that she's working with in a position of, let's say hypothetically
speaking, they know what's going on and they know that she needs that routine.
Now it's almost like she can do whatever she wants and we can't fire her because if we
fire her, God knows what's going to happen, right?
So that's why it's really important to get the treatment.
Of course, not everyone has the luxury of seeking treatment or affording treatment,
but I'm saying that because if you know anybody that is maybe struggling with something like
this, especially if you're, you know, I think about that all the time when I become a parent,
like I am going to advocate for my kids to get any treatment or help that they need because
I want to nip it in the bud, so to speak.
Like I want to not have that later on because again, I'm sure people were scared to, I'm
sure they were scared to let her go from her job or scared to talk back to her work and
stuff because it's the unpredictability and it's unfortunate, but that is something that
comes with untreated mental illness sometimes.
I agree with that.
I also do think that it's like, as long as, and I've met people like this, as long as
I, like if I come in at like a hot 98, you know what I mean?
Nobody's going to fuck with me.
If I come in, I'm always at this level, you know, and then say I'm like down here one
day, like I walk into work and I'm like at a 50 or 60 and I'm being kind of personable,
people will remember that one time I was at a 98 and they're going to be like, I don't
know if I want to fuck with that person.
Exactly.
And that in itself is like a part of our environment as people is like you show people what you
want them to see of you.
And if, again, if you're just going to come in and just be at that 98, like right when
you walk in, nobody's going to fuck with you, you know?
And I do think it was a little bit of that in my opinion.
I feel like as, you know, she probably felt like the odds were against her being a woman
in, you know, a scientific field and things like that.
And I think that maybe that was driven home a little too soon because Seth was successful
at everything and nobody batted an eye at him, you know?
Well, it's probably because he was a man.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's also one of those things too, where it's like, I feel like sometimes children
or young adults or whoever can kind of be overlooked by their parents, especially if
like another one of their kids is doing really great, because I feel like the parents can
kind of get like the cloud like, oh, well, all my kids are fine.
Look at Seth, he's doing so well.
So like all the other kids or other kid in this, you know, situation must be okay because
he's fine, you know?
Yeah.
It's like a person to person basis.
Right.
It's like check on all your kiddos, check on all your friends, you know, just do your
due diligence.
Like that's why I'm so interested in the field of psychology and educating people on it because
it's like, you don't know what to look for.
So educate yourself on what to look for so that you can prevent this from happening in
the future.
Sure, yeah.
Even if it's a conversation, sorry.
Even if it's a conversation, just one conversation you need to have, you know?
Exactly.
Yeah.
Dang, that was a really great one.
That's really different than anything else we've ever done.
Right?
I thought it was, you know, I think I might have even mentioned that in the case before
or maybe once I break down when I was like, I'm going to do something different.
Because again, we don't hear a lot about that, about women being a perpetrator of a,
like a mass shooting like that, especially a school shooting.
And you know, of course, like now we're so desensitized to stuff like this happening.
But yeah, especially then, like early 2000s, it was really rare, especially for a woman.
But again, it's, it just shows that like certain diagnoses, they don't have genders.
Yeah, exactly.
You know, diagnoses, schizophrenia, spectrum disorder does not have a gender.
They don't discriminate.
Yeah, exactly.
So.
Wow, that's really interesting.
If you like this episode and you want to hear more, we actually do have a mental breakdown
earlier in our episode season about schizophrenia spectrum that Coal brought.
So if you want to do a little bit more research on that, feel free to listen to that episode
if you haven't already.
And again, if anybody has any suggestions for cases or mental breakdowns, please let us
know.
Again, you can email us.
You'll have our handles.
I said them at the beginning, but that was a really great case.
I'm happy you brought that one.
I would, I'd never heard about that before.
Yeah.
I always say that.
I never knew though.
It's probably recently.
I mean, it's in the last 10 years.
Yeah.
And we're going to, I think in the next, next case that I'm going to bring, I don't think
a lot of people know about it either.
So it's going to be like a couple of like peppering in some not so known cases around the really
ones that we've been doing.
So, well, that was a great, good job.
Thanks for bringing that.
My butt is asleep again.
You got anything else?
Nope.
Okay.
We will talk to you later.
Talk to you later.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
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