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Hello!

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Hello!

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How's it going?

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Oh, thank you for asking.

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It's going well.

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Good, I'm glad.

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Like, I'm the one that usually asks that.

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How's it going?

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I'm Koelle.

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I'm Kenna.

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Welcome to another episode of Diagnosing It Killer.

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The not mental breakdown edition.

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I was about to say that, but it's not.

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It's not the mental breakdown.

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It's just a regular old case.

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Tis a case.

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Tis a case.

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This person we're going to talk about today.

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A doozy.

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Like a doozy and a half.

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A doozy and a half.

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Yeah, like this person is, and it's not necessarily that they had like, well, I don't know, you'll

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see.

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She's just a piece of work.

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Okay, well she said she, so a fuller shadowing.

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Before we get started, I do just want to say that we have reached 11,000 downloads.

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Woohoo!

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It's really exciting.

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Thank you guys for continuously downloading our podcast and listening to us and subscribing

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and messaging us, reaching out to us, et cetera.

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Spreading the word.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I do have another Instagram post or message actually that we got.

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I'd like to share.

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It is from a new podcast called Caffeinated Crime Podcast.

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They do not have any episodes out yet, but there is an Instagram account and it looks

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like it's hosted in the bio.

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It says, Bioperson and Annie.

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So, it says, runs purely on caffeine.

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So that'll be fun.

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There's no episodes out yet, but I do want to say that they reached out to us and the

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message is as follows.

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Hey y'all, just listen to your first episode, smiley face.

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It was so very good.

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I appreciate your awareness and thoughtfulness of the mental health issues presented in this

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case.

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Just wanted to give you a quick message and say thank you.

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Y'all are doing great with the little like party emoji.

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Awesome.

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Thank you very much for the kind words.

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I know I responded to you so you can read that as well, but it's just cool to like know

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the mental health plus the true crime is what's really like keeping people around because

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they really like the mental health and mental illness advocacy and things like that.

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So, that's why we're here.

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Well, that's exciting.

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And I think again, like I said earlier, word of mouth.

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You guys do such a great job about talking about it and I hear it in conversations sometimes

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when we're out and about and it's really nice.

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So thank you.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I mean, I'm just bringing it up every time I meet someone new, but like it just happens

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to come out and especially because we have the QR codes on our back of our phones.

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And so everyone's like, oh, what's that on your phone?

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What's that on your phone?

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And so of course it comes up in conversation, but it's really nice when like I'm out with

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some friends and we meet some new people and then my friends rather than me are like, oh,

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look, have you heard about Kenneth's podcast?

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Have you ever been a kid and cool podcast?

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So it's cool that everyone else is helping us spread the word as well.

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So yeah, I just wanted to pepper those things in there.

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If you did not have us on social media, you can follow us on anywhere at diagnosing a killer.

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Twitter is at killer diagnosis.

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And if you want to donate to the Patreon, that gives us more time to create content for you guys.

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We've been actually doing really good about putting out two episodes a week.

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I'm really proud of us.

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But continue to donate to the Patreon.

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Email us, please let us know if you guys want to hear anything.

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And yeah, I think that's all I had to say.

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You want to get on into the case.

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Today we're going to be talking about a one Amy Bishop.

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Amy Bishop.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Okay.

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Just follow me.

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Follow me.

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Okay.

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Amy Bishop was born April 24th, 1965.

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Amy was the first child of her parents, Samuel and Judith Bishop.

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Oh, Judith.

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Oh, Judith.

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Last episode was for Gary Ridgway's ex-wife or he was married when he got caught.

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Oh, Judith.

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Judith.

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Judith.

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Judith.

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Exactly.

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So the three lived in Iowa City, Iowa and her father was actually pursuing a fine arts

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degree at the time that Amy was born.

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Her brother, Seth, was born a few years later on April 9th, 1968.

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After the family had Seth, they moved to Braintree, Massachusetts.

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I spelt it M-A-S-S-A-T-U-R-C-H-E-S-T.

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Massarchoo shirts.

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Massachoo chest.

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Massachoo chest.

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Not much is to be said about the family itself during these early years.

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But Samuel, Amy and Seth's father, he was actually a professor for the University of

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Boston in the art department.

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So the two kind of grew up in this educationally driven household.

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Amy grew up with severe asthma and began to become interested in science and genetics

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at a very young age.

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Although Amy was a smart girl, it always seemed like Seth, her brother, excelled in almost

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anything he did.

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Oh, of course.

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Of course.

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By the time that Amy was in high school, she began to feel like most of her parents'

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focus was put onto her younger brother, Seth.

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Seth was a part of the high school rifle team and was all around successful in his academics.

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He won several math and science awards throughout his high school career.

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Oh no, another sibling gets all the praise.

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Of course.

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These start like that.

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Amy had trouble maintaining friendships and although her grades were also good, she never

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fell up to par with Seth.

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While in high school, Amy had played the violin, but Seth, of course, had a passion for violin.

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And he actually played in the Greater Boston Youth Symphony and Orchestra.

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So it's like, you played the violin, but I played it a little bit better.

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But a little bit better.

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Right?

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Eventually, she graduated from Braintree High School and began attending Northeastern University

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where her dad was actually teaching.

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Okay.

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Shortly after Amy had begun college, she met a young man by the name of Jimmy Anderson.

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Jimmy was also interested in the sciences as he was studying biology, so the pair kind

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of hit it off almost immediately.

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They also had quite a bit of common.

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When meeting Jimmy's family, they found it odd when Amy referred to him as James because

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Jimmy was his legal name.

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James was not.

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Okay.

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And they thought it was really interesting.

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He was actually a junior.

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He was Jimmy Jr.

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His dad was Jimmy Sr.

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But isn't James a nickname for Jimmy?

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But that wasn't his legal name.

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So?

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Well, that's like when you call Clay Clayton.

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His name is just Clay.

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It's not Clayton.

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I know.

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I do that on purpose to mess with it because it doesn't like it.

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Right.

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But that's what I'm saying.

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So she used to call him or she would call him James.

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Like against his wanting?

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Even when Jimmy Sr. asked why she insisted on calling him James, Jimmy Jr. answered with

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quote, she doesn't want people to think I'm a southern redneck end quote.

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She thought it sounded unprofessional.

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Jimmy?

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Jimmy.

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Jimmy.

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Oh, no.

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Shout out.

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My friend Austin, he has an English Bulldog.

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His name is Jimmy.

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Jimmy.

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And he's so damn cute.

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But okay, so if you're okay with me saying this on the podcast, you have a friend named

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James and you call him Jimmy or vice versa.

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So what's this?

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All of his girlfriends.

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All of his girlfriends called him James though, for the most part.

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None of his like, sorry, James.

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And his name is James.

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And you call him Jimmy?

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I call him Jimmy.

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Why?

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Because it's short for James.

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The James isn't short for Jimmy.

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I see.

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I was confused.

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I thought it was like interchangeable.

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That's why I was not interchangeable, but I thought it was the other way around.

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And I was like, why is that weird that she's calling him James?

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I see.

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His name isn't James.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I was saying like, no, my name's Ricky, but you insist on calling me Richard.

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You know?

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Like, like that's when people call me McKenna.

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Yeah.

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And I'm like, that's not my name.

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They think they're clever.

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They're like, oh, McKenna.

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Like that would be funny if that was actually my real name.

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My full name is Kenna.

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It's just Kenna.

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It's not McKenna.

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Okay, I get it.

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I get it.

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But yeah, that's really, that's kind of fucked up.

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She's like, oh, Jim Baum over here sounds too redneck.

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Yeah, you sound like a redneck.

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God, that's awful.

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I'm going to call you James.

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Because it sounds professional.

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Yeah, James.

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I'm going to take it upon myself to give you a more professional name because I think

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it needs, okay.

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She's already controlling what I want.

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Exactly.

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When Amy brought Jimmy home to her family, Seth almost kind of scoffed.

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He wasn't really impressed by Jimmy and furthermore, he actually tried to convince his sister

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that some of her extracurriculars, because she was now going to college, weren't going

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to make her popular and yield her in a new friends, namely the D&D club that she entered.

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So she was very nerdy.

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Yeah, and Seth was like, well, Seth was like, he plays-

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Well, I mean, it's cool now because of nerd culture.

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He plays the violin.

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Sure.

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So he also has a quirk that is not necessarily aligned with a young male, but any, especially

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in the 50s, you know?

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Anything he touches turns to gold.

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Oh, okay.

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So Seth graduated from Braintree High School in 1968 and he applied and was accepted to

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Northeastern University in Boston where his dad taught and where his sister was going.

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How excited do you think Amy was?

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Oh, she was probably pissed.

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And it sounds like he's like trying to one up her.

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He's going to the school with her on purpose so that he can make himself look better.

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That's interesting.

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It's an interesting thought.

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Maybe we're thinking a little along the lines like Amy does.

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So he focused on electrical engineering while he was at Northeastern University of Boston.

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Amy, now 21 years old, was still living at home and also attending Northeastern University,

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which of course Amy was like, yay, great, my brother's hanging out with me every day.

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People around campus were really shocked that Amy and Seth were actually brother and sister.

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Amy was quite reserved and quiet and nerdy and geeky when Seth was this Camaro driving

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smart, witty, outgoing young man.

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That's 100s.

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And he was adorable.

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Was he?

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Oh, he was adorable.

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He was adorable.

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Seth wasn't a narcissist though.

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Seeing how upset it made Amy on some occasions, he actually started to stop talking about

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his successes as often to make her feel better and to not make her feel bad.

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Okay, that's kind of sad because you shouldn't have to dim your light to make someone else

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feel better.

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One Christmas, he actually asked his parents to not get him anything because he just wanted

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to enjoy the holiday without stuff just with his family.

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He was a really humble guy.

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Damn.

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Yeah.

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He just happened to be great at everything.

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Yeah, it's not his fault.

259
00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:53,320
He almost, it almost seemed like these gestures, however, only upset Amy more.

260
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,760
Like she was like, oh, he's such a great guy.

261
00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,920
He's so humble.

262
00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:02,280
On top of him being great at everything, he's also great at being a human, right?

263
00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,680
Sounds like she's just jealous of everything.

264
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:07,560
She is.

265
00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:13,280
Sometime in 1985, the house had been burglarized and Amy became increasingly paranoid about

266
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,040
burglars getting into the house.

267
00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,000
So then, of course, fast forward, this has been like the first semester that Seth is

268
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,920
at Northeastern University.

269
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:28,920
Amy is due to graduate the upcoming spring, but this is December, 1986.

270
00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,200
Amy was home alone while her brother went grocery shopping and her parents were out

271
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,480
for the day.

272
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,320
When Seth arrived home, he ran into his mother who had just arrived at the house at the same

273
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:38,560
time.

274
00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,280
Judith began helping Seth into the house with groceries.

275
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,040
While the two were setting groceries down on the countertop, Amy called to her brother

276
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,320
to help her with something.

277
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,440
Amy had, while in the house by herself, went to her father's closet, which had a 12 gauge

278
00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:55,680
shotgun inside of it.

279
00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,360
The gun was actually a gift to Seth because he was on the rifle team.

280
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,360
This is, yeah.

281
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,280
Wait, it was a gift that he never received because he didn't want Christmas gifts, or

282
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,280
it was a gift he would receive in the future.

283
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,960
Well he was on the rifle team in high school, and so it had been a gift to Seth.

284
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:11,960
Oh, I see.

285
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:17,000
Amy had loaded the gun after she claimed hearing something inside of the house because she

286
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:22,880
thought maybe it was a burglar, and she had already shot the gun inside of her room, seeming

287
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,240
to test it out or possibly scare away a robber.

288
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,920
So this is before anybody arrived home.

289
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,080
But now that she knew that her family was in the house, she didn't know how to unload

290
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,320
it.

291
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,440
Amy began to say, I need help unloading this as she raised the gun up to pass it to her

292
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:40,440
brother.

293
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:41,440
No.

294
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,800
Seth began to say don't point it at anyone when he reached his hands out, the gun went

295
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,080
off, and he was shot in the chest.

296
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,040
The gun did not go off.

297
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,600
Amy pulled the trigger.

298
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,880
Guns do not go off unless someone pulls the trigger.

299
00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,720
Judith claimed that she witnessed the entire shooting and immediately called 911.

300
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:04,800
She also claimed that Amy immediately ran outside to look for help from a neighbor,

301
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,560
a neighbor next door or something that was a nurse, and Judith had claimed that Amy was

302
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:14,320
yelling this person's name down the street.

303
00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:19,000
When police arrived, however, Amy was nowhere to be found and neither was the shotgun.

304
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,000
Just suspicious.

305
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:26,480
They just fled the scene of her own crime.

306
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:27,680
With the murder weapon.

307
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:28,680
Yeah.

308
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:33,200
There were reports in the area that a young lady brandishing a gun was trying to flag

309
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,720
down or threaten passing motorists.

310
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,840
That's the opposite of what her mom said that she did.

311
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:41,840
Right?

312
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:43,880
Quite the opposite is happening.

313
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,320
Seth was rushed to a local hospital where he would succumb to his injuries.

314
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,320
Oh my god.

315
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:49,320
He probably got shot in the face, right?

316
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,320
Because he had his hands in his chest.

317
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:52,320
In his chest.

318
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,320
Oh my god.

319
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:54,320
He was 18.

320
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,320
Oh my gosh.

321
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,200
The police was eventually located at a service station down the street when employees said

322
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,360
that she had tried to take a car at gunpoint.

323
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:10,840
After police interviewed both Amy and Judith, Seth's death was ruled an accidental death.

324
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,200
The parents are definitely in on this shit.

325
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,680
What made her like randomly decide seemingly to just like shoot her brother?

326
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,720
Cause like, well, she's not dumb.

327
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,360
Like she knows probably enough about guns.

328
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,280
She knew how to load it.

329
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:33,480
Well it was always something that like her dad and like Seth had like kind of done together.

330
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:39,160
So it wasn't really like something that she knew about.

331
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:44,280
But mysteriously, cause they had like taken pictures of like the crime scene and stuff,

332
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:46,360
crime scene, quote unquote.

333
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:53,480
They had taken a picture of the hole in Amy's wall in her bedroom and in this photo, you

334
00:14:53,480 --> 00:15:01,320
can see like this magazine article about someone who had committed a similar crime, that they

335
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:06,600
had shot and killed someone and that they had ran away from the location and used the

336
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:12,480
gun to hide, car jack someone and then flee the scene and then like wasn't found or something

337
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:13,960
for a while.

338
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:18,840
So it was almost like she read this and then like gained inspiration to do this.

339
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:19,840
Like copycat.

340
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:20,840
Yeah.

341
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,720
But I feel like, I feel like that's so, I don't want to say random cause obviously

342
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:32,360
she was harboring these feelings of like rage towards her brother.

343
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:37,320
But like seemingly decent childhood, like seemingly decent home life, you know, she's

344
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,240
just I guess jealous of her brother.

345
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:46,640
But like, I feel like if it was a long thought out, not a long, a long kind of like stacking

346
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,920
on top of itself rage, it would have been more thought out than that.

347
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,760
So I don't know like how long she'd been stewing about it.

348
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:59,440
But when I, in my opinion, what I think happened was that she knew that her parents were gone

349
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:05,520
for the day and she maybe didn't expect because in her mind, remember that Seth and Judith

350
00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,560
showed up at the house at the same time.

351
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:13,040
I think that maybe she might have looked out a window or whatever and saw that he pulled

352
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:18,000
up and then started making her way downstairs.

353
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,440
And then when Judith pulls up, she's thinking that he's the only person around.

354
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:23,440
Yeah.

355
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:29,240
Cause I, my, my other thought was why wouldn't she have tried to do it away from her parents?

356
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,120
Like if she knew her mom was downstairs, why would she do that?

357
00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:33,120
Right.

358
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,440
And so what I'm thinking is that maybe she didn't think that Judith was in the house

359
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,160
too, just Seth, because it sounded like one person came home.

360
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,160
Oh, okay.

361
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,160
Two people.

362
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,160
Does that make more sense?

363
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:43,160
Yeah.

364
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:44,160
Yeah.

365
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,160
No, definitely.

366
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,160
Okay.

367
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,120
So the second half of that is the fact that Judith knew the police chief very, very well

368
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:56,120
and was a staunch like supporter of his and had donated quite a bit of money and all

369
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,440
this other stuff.

370
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:02,960
So they get Amy, they take her down to the station.

371
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,760
While she's being interviewed, police chief walks in and is like, interviews over, she

372
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,760
can go home and just lets Amy leave with Judith.

373
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,320
So do you think that Amy like kind of knew that they could make it seem like it was an

374
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,000
accident or at the very least she would get like off on like something really minor because

375
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,600
of her mom's relationship with the police chief?

376
00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:24,600
Probably.

377
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,440
I think that she knew that after a while.

378
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,120
Like I don't think that she thought about that in the moment, but it just happened to

379
00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:30,640
work out that way.

380
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,640
Yeah.

381
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,000
That was completely different than what I thought was going to happen.

382
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,000
Go ahead.

383
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:36,000
Isn't that crazy?

384
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,000
That is wild.

385
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:38,000
And it was really soon.

386
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,280
Like it was just like all of a sudden it seems.

387
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,760
Neighbors were absolutely shocked that Seth had died in the way that he did.

388
00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,320
He was such a good kid.

389
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:50,320
But furthermore, locals were absolutely bothered that Amy acted the way that she did with no

390
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,320
consequences.

391
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,840
And after the fact too, if she was like sobbing and actually screaming for the neighbor and

392
00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:55,840
stuff, that's one thing.

393
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,640
But the fact that she just fucking like, the dipset, she's like bye.

394
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,640
She's like bye.

395
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,320
She's like waving guns around at neighbors or whatever.

396
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:04,320
Carjack people.

397
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,800
What the fuck?

398
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,120
Everyone trusted though that the police had done their due diligence and had done their

399
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:10,120
job.

400
00:18:10,120 --> 00:18:13,080
But again, everybody deals with panic differently.

401
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,800
Maybe she just had a death grip on that gun and was just like, ah, you know, and there's

402
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,240
I don't know, running around waiting.

403
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,000
Or maybe it's like a lot of our other cases where the police are like, no, for the need

404
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,000
to investigate.

405
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,680
And then they later get like the same person for like multiple homicide.

406
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,680
Yeah.

407
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,840
Okay, maybe I should have investigated more.

408
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,240
Check this out.

409
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:37,840
Just two weeks after Seth's death, Amy and Jimmy went to go visit Jimmy's parents.

410
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,640
It wasn't until much later in the evening that the couple would even bring up Seth's

411
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,600
death to which Jimmy's parents were taken off guard by because they hadn't heard about

412
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:46,600
what happened.

413
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,440
Oh, by the way, my brother died.

414
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:49,440
Did you hear?

415
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,440
I shot him.

416
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:51,440
I killed him.

417
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:52,440
On accident.

418
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:53,440
But it was an accident.

419
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:54,440
Did you hear?

420
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,400
She was probably trying to get ahead of it before they heard.

421
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,800
And they were like, why didn't you fucking tell me?

422
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,000
Because she should have said that the first thing that she fucking told me.

423
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,000
Or maybe Jimmy should have said that.

424
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,000
Yeah.

425
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,000
Right?

426
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000
It's creepy.

427
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,000
Just to let you guys know, like, you know, her brother dies.

428
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,800
Like don't bring it up or whatever, you know.

429
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:09,800
Yeah, exactly.

430
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,920
Further raising eyebrows, the couple would actually get married just four months later

431
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,920
in April 1987.

432
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:18,640
There it is.

433
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:19,640
There it is.

434
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:24,800
In the very same church that Seth had his funeral.

435
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,800
Ew.

436
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,600
That is so fucking gross.

437
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,200
Fucking awful.

438
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,400
And everyone was like four months.

439
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,400
Four months.

440
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,400
Did people show up?

441
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:37,400
I don't fucking know.

442
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,960
And they were just like, yeah, this checks out.

443
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:40,960
This makes sense.

444
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:41,960
Isn't that creepy?

445
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:42,960
Ew.

446
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:43,960
Ew.

447
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,360
Is Jimmy like in on it?

448
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:46,360
I mean, he has to be.

449
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,360
I don't know.

450
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,360
What the fuck was that?

451
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:49,360
Did you hear that noise?

452
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:50,360
What?

453
00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:51,360
I don't know.

454
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:52,360
I thought I heard.

455
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:53,360
Every time I record, I feel like I hear a weird noise.

456
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:54,360
I know, me too.

457
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:55,360
Every time.

458
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,240
All right, go ahead.

459
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:02,960
Amy was due to graduate after that spring semester to which she kept that promise to herself,

460
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:10,120
not taking a single day off for bereavement after Seth's death.

461
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:16,360
Choosing not to change her last name, she called herself future Dr. Amy Bishop.

462
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:17,800
Like didn't take Anderson.

463
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,800
Gagged me.

464
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,680
She's like, no, that's reserved because like, yeah.

465
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,040
You are only, not only.

466
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,880
It's very common to keep your maiden name if you got that title when you had your maiden

467
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,560
name, but you're not changing it on purpose so that you can keep that as your maiden name.

468
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:34,560
Exactly.

469
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,880
And it doesn't, again, it's not like every woman has to take the last name.

470
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:37,880
They don't.

471
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:38,880
Okay.

472
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:39,880
Yeah, absolutely.

473
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,640
But still, it was like she said to Jimmy, I'm not going to take your last name because

474
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,520
I want my last name when I get my doctorate.

475
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,520
Fine.

476
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,520
Okay, that's fine.

477
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,520
I thought you meant like she, yeah.

478
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:51,520
Okay.

479
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,520
No, yeah.

480
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:53,520
It's a little narcissistic.

481
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,520
I'm just saying.

482
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:55,520
It's fine.

483
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:56,520
Do you, girl?

484
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:57,520
Do you?

485
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,440
The couple would graduate together that spring 1987.

486
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,600
Amy had actually written a thesis while in her graduating year that Harvard had actually

487
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:06,840
taken notice of.

488
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:11,880
And with this, Amy decided to apply and would be accepted to Harvard for the following fall

489
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:12,880
semester.

490
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:13,880
What was the thesis about?

491
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,360
How did I kill my brother and got away with it?

492
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:23,120
I didn't do it, but if I did, Jimmy had no choice but to follow Amy, who would pursue

493
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:24,920
a PhD in genetics?

494
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:25,920
Amy would.

495
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,400
Damn, that's like intense.

496
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,160
Well, that's again, that was kind of like her passion because like I said, she had grown

497
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,040
up with asthma and like things like that.

498
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,760
And was looking towards, you know, genetics and she had a really an interest at that at

499
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:38,760
a young age.

500
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,360
I guess I blacked out when you said that because I don't remember seeing that.

501
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:43,840
It was when I was talking really, really fast.

502
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,520
Oh, well, I'm not going to put me telling you to slow down in the podcast.

503
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:50,720
I'll say it again.

504
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:51,720
Okay.

505
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,320
Amy would never let anyone forget that she was going to Harvard.

506
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,680
She would constantly talk about it with family, friends and colleagues.

507
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,600
She introduced herself to people as Dr. Amy Bishop, Harvard trained.

508
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,400
Hi, I'm Dr. Amy Bishop, Harvard trained.

509
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:09,400
Yeah.

510
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,360
I immediately know I'd be like, you don't need to know my name.

511
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:12,360
We're not friends.

512
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:13,360
Okay.

513
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:14,360
Bye.

514
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,320
That is very great for you.

515
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:17,320
I'm leaving.

516
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,320
That's great.

517
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,840
I'm going to keep calling him Jimmy, I am not going to call him James.

518
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:23,840
No, don't do that.

519
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:24,840
It's hilarious.

520
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:30,240
Jimmy would keep busy with various biology projects at Harvard kind of, but mostly he

521
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,960
supported Amy and her future and her career.

522
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:34,960
Just like she wants.

523
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,240
Just like she always wanted.

524
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:41,880
Eventually Jimmy would quit work and university related projects to become a stay at home

525
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,040
dad.

526
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,040
Over the course of the next several years, Amy and Jimmy would welcome their daughter,

527
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,440
all this daughter, Lily, and then two more girls.

528
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,040
While Amy, this is all while Amy was finishing her doctorates.

529
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,520
I just said the two other girls because they didn't really name them, but yeah.

530
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,360
She didn't take any days off for pregnancy.

531
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:01,360
No, she probably didn't.

532
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,800
She probably didn't in the classroom and then just kept going.

533
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:04,800
Exactly.

534
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:05,800
Sure.

535
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:06,800
Yeah.

536
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:07,800
No days off for me.

537
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:08,800
No days off for me.

538
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,400
In order to receive her PhD, Amy needed to write a dissertation.

539
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,400
Bear with me.

540
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,400
No.

541
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,400
The dissertation was titled The Role of Mesothation in Respiratory Births and Pheagocytes.

542
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,400
Pheagocytes.

543
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,400
Something like that.

544
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,400
You got it.

545
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,400
It's fine.

546
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:24,400
Is that fine?

547
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,400
Yeah.

548
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:26,400
It's something like that.

549
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,400
It's a real page turner.

550
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:28,400
Clearly.

551
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:33,720
It's a real page turner.

552
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,640
It was actually 137 pages in length.

553
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,640
God.

554
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:43,080
And in her acknowledgments, she states, quote, Bear with me on this one too.

555
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:48,240
I would like to thank my thesis advisor, Dr. Paul Gallup, for his enthusiasm, insight,

556
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,480
and willingness to spend hours listening to my ideas and his presenting his own.

557
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,480
Harvard-Trait.

558
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,480
Harvard-Trait.

559
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,760
Dr. Paul Gallup not only concerned himself with my scientific development but cared about

560
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,320
me as a person.

561
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,920
I would like to thank Dr. Mercedes-Paz for her support and being a positive role model.

562
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,440
The rest of the Gallup lab, Vladimir, Rudolph, and Sylvia, as well as Ed, Henson, were valued

563
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,640
colleagues.

564
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,480
I would like to thank my thesis committee chairman, Dr. Manfred Kamomsky, for his calming influence

565
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,160
and for keeping me focused.

566
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,400
I would like to thank my best friend, Barbara Burroughs, for her optimism.

567
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:30,040
The graduate experience of my closest friend, David LaTour, gave my emotions and experiences

568
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,880
as a graduate student perspective, and for that I am grateful.

569
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,360
I am particularly indebted to my mother, Judith Bishop.

570
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:38,360
Judith.

571
00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,360
The fuck is Judith?

572
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:45,240
Judith Bishop for moral support and for watching my daughter, Lily, while I worked in the lab.

573
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,120
I am also indebted to my father, Samuel Bishop, as well as my grandmother, Theano, and my

574
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:54,320
aunt Rose for their unwavering faith in my ability to graduate.

575
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,800
Finally, I would like to thank my husband, Jim Anderson.

576
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,800
Calls him Jim.

577
00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:59,800
Love it.

578
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:00,960
I was waiting for her to not thank him in there.

579
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,560
I know, me too.

580
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:08,000
For graphics, tight-setting, computer assistance, and midnight cups of coffee.

581
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,920
Not for watching my three children while I am in school 24-7.

582
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,760
This thesis is dedicated to my brother, Seth Morrison Bishop.

583
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,760
No.

584
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:17,760
Straight up.

585
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,760
End quote.

586
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,760
Who I murdered.

587
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,240
Who I fucking murdered.

588
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:22,440
And I'm still walking the street.

589
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:26,440
She dedicated the thesis to him, or the dissertation to him.

590
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:27,440
Yep.

591
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:28,440
Yep, that's disgusting.

592
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,680
And I guarantee, like, everyone around her was like, oh, that's so sweet.

593
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,480
She probably convinced them.

594
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,280
My point in reading all that is I get that it's like acknowledgments, like you're supposed

595
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,960
to acknowledge the people, but it sounded just like name dropping.

596
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,920
It sounded like a lot of name dropping.

597
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,320
I'm like, look at what a good person I am.

598
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,320
You know?

599
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:47,320
The cross-dise.

600
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,720
I didn't kill my brother.

601
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,720
You know?

602
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:50,720
This is the memory of him.

603
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:51,720
Yeah.

604
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,720
Even though I didn't take a day off to grieve him.

605
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,040
And I had my marriage in his funeral church four months later.

606
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,040
Seems legit.

607
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,040
Yeah.

608
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,440
People hated the dissertation.

609
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:01,440
Yeah.

610
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,840
And many of her colleagues found the paper to be written unprofessionally, and the overall

611
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,960
subject matter kind of an easy target to hit.

612
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,960
Yikes.

613
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:14,920
Although Amy would receive her doctorates, many referred to this controversy as, quote,

614
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,080
local scandal number one, end quote.

615
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,360
Damn, this place didn't have any other local scandals.

616
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:22,360
No, it was the biggest one.

617
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:24,680
I thought it was like the first one.

618
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,520
No, it's just the biggest one, number one, yeah.

619
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,760
Either way, Amy was accepted to a fellowship at Harvard to the Desmaosum.

620
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,280
Most notably, her supervisor, Dr. Rosenberg.

621
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,160
He was a medical professor and a physician at the Children's Hospital at Boston, where

622
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,280
he and Amy worked together in the neurobiology department.

623
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,040
Rosenberg found Amy difficult to work with, citing that on more than a few occasions,

624
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:55,040
Amy would get into verbal altercations with several colleagues.

625
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,040
Like regularly.

626
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:02,240
He was given a copy of Amy's dissertation by Amy and was asked to review it and give

627
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,800
his professional opinion on it.

628
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:09,440
Here, read this 137-page document that I already utilized and graduated because of.

629
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,960
But read it just for shits and giggles, please.

630
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,520
No, read it because I want you to tell me how amazing I am.

631
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,680
Yeah, exactly.

632
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,080
Of course Rosenberg agreed that it lacked certain aspects typically required of a PhD

633
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,160
dissertation.

634
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:24,800
And when did he die?

635
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:25,800
After some time.

636
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:26,800
No, of course.

637
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,800
I was kidding.

638
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,040
After some time.

639
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:35,640
Rosenberg was to give Amy a professional evaluation, which outlined some of the doctor's concerns

640
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:41,160
regarding Amy's performance, stating that Amy, quote, couldn't meet the standards required

641
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,160
for the work.

642
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,160
No.

643
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:49,040
And asked for Amy's resignation over him discontinuing her fellowship instead.

644
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,120
So like, I will discontinue her fellowship or you can resign.

645
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,880
He literally was like, yeah, you would have been fine in this program if you hadn't shown

646
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,760
me that piece of absolute dog shit.

647
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,160
Now I know you're bragging.

648
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,760
I know that you're trash at this.

649
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,400
Yeah, I can no longer attend this fellowship.

650
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,760
And also you're a bitch to like everyone.

651
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:06,920
Yeah.

652
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,040
So Amy agreed to the resignation.

653
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:11,880
That's surprising.

654
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:19,720
On December 19, 1993, Dr. Rosenberg and his wife were out of town on vacation.

655
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,400
The couple had a family friend arranged to come over to feed their cats while they were

656
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:24,720
gone.

657
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,120
This cat sitter arrived on the last day that the couple were to be gone and noticed that

658
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:33,480
there was a package sitting in front of the porch, like on the front porch.

659
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,160
The sitter picked up the package, took it inside and sat it on the counter before feeding

660
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,040
the cats and then leaving.

661
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:46,040
Just to give you like an overall like what kind of time we're talking about here.

662
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,120
During this time, the unabomber was still active.

663
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,720
I was just thinking the unabomber and had been since 1978.

664
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,960
Now this is 1993 and I did not realize Ted Kaczynski was doing that for that long.

665
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:04,000
But Ted Kaczynski was still at large and his MO at the time had been going for some time

666
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:11,720
and he usually targeted universities and airports or airlines, hence UNE, like University A,

667
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,480
Airlines Bomber.

668
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,720
So when Dr. Rosenberg and his wife returned to their home and saw the package inside their

669
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,920
home when they hadn't expected anything, he was immediately cautious.

670
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:28,640
Dr. Rosenberg decided to take a knife and cut a hole at the very center of the top

671
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:32,840
of the box instead of opening the package like normal.

672
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:39,680
When he did and he was able to peek inside, he saw wires and he called police.

673
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,440
So he totally saved him and his wife's life.

674
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,360
That's so fucking scary.

675
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,320
Because it was a homemade bomb.

676
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,880
The ATF arrived along with a detonation team to remove the bomb.

677
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,880
It was disposed of and it was essentially a failed bombing.

678
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,400
I bet she was like meh.

679
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,400
Meh.

680
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,160
Well, we'll get to it.

681
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:05,080
Witnesses approached the ATF with information that they overheard or had engaged in a conversation

682
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:11,320
with Jimmy Anderson, Amy's husband, in which he had stated that he hated Rosenberg for

683
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:17,840
forcing his wife to leave as she was the sole breadwinner and that he wanted to quote, shoot,

684
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,800
stab, bomb, or strangle Rosenberg and quote.

685
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:22,800
This fucking dumbass.

686
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:23,800
Right?

687
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,640
Yeah, just go ahead and like purge yourself.

688
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:27,640
Fucking.

689
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,720
Well, this was never substantiated and in fact the police had nothing but circumstantial

690
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:38,360
evidence relating Amy and Jimmy potentially to this attempted pipe bombing.

691
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,120
And the case was eventually closed after several months.

692
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,640
Although it would be confirmed that the pipe bomb was not that of the unibomber.

693
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,640
Yeah.

694
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:47,640
So who the fuck was it?

695
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,640
Jimmeth, perhaps?

696
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:49,640
Jimmeth?

697
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,640
It's his eye.

698
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:52,640
Jimmeth.

699
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,480
After all of this cooled off, Amy decided to start finding work again.

700
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,800
She bounced around several labs but would always end up quitting or getting fired since she

701
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,200
didn't work well with others.

702
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,200
Oh, interesting.

703
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,920
She does not work well with others.

704
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,200
Because she has to be the leader and if she's not the leader then there's a problem.

705
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,800
She should probably get into tennis then if she doesn't want to do a team base work.

706
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:12,800
No team base work.

707
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:20,760
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708
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711
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712
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716
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717
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to life.

718
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,760
She would accuse people of stealing her work or ideas, still berating people and insisting

719
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:14,520
that she alone was the superior person on the team or in the lab.

720
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:20,920
In 2001, Amy and Jimmy would welcome their youngest son, a boy named Seth, after her late

721
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,920
brother.

722
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,920
Fuck off.

723
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:23,920
I'm not even kidding.

724
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:30,200
That is so gross and the fact that she's like, only British murder was an accidental

725
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,200
death.

726
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,120
Now I'm going to reincarnate him and live on with my son and his name.

727
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,920
He turns British even more weirder than that.

728
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,200
He was actually born on Seth's birthday.

729
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,600
Oh, that's really kind of weird like reincarnation thing.

730
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,600
It's terrifying.

731
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,520
When he got older, was he like, why'd you kill me?

732
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,520
Like as a child.

733
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,040
What is that creepy thing?

734
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:01,120
In 2002, the family of six decided to go eat at an iHop.

735
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,160
When the family was seated, Amy asked for a high chair or booster seat for one of the

736
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,160
kids.

737
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,160
A waitress apologized as the last booster seat had actually been given to the family

738
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,120
that was seated right before this family.

739
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,320
No, they shouldn't have done that.

740
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:15,920
She's a man done that.

741
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:16,920
Don't fuck up.

742
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Don't fuck up.

743
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,880
Amy wasn't having any of this.

744
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:27,000
She flew into a rage first at the waitress stating that she was Dr. Amy Bishop from Harvard

745
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,840
and she demanded a booster seat.

746
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,400
Harvard train.

747
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Fire, but train.

748
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:42,640
Then Amy actually approached the family that had the last booster seat.

749
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,040
She demanded that the mother give up her child's seat and the mother was like, are you insane?

750
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Yeah, literally.

751
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,760
Amy lunged at the little girl that was sitting in the seat and tried to snatch the seat from

752
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,480
underneath the little girl.

753
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,480
Not even kidding.

754
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,040
She's really litter fall.

755
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,640
Harvard, she didn't care.

756
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,280
She's Harvard trained.

757
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,280
When the girl's mother tried to defend her daughter, Amy began to punch the woman in

758
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,800
the face and head while yelling, I'm Dr. Amy Bishop.

759
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,400
I'm not even kidding.

760
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,400
It sounds so stupid.

761
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:16,400
I'm not even kidding.

762
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,760
I'm Dr. Amy Bishop.

763
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,760
Like screaming while she's punching this woman in front of her children.

764
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,760
In front of Amy's children.

765
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:23,760
In front of fucking you.

766
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,720
Like there's a lot of people that are fucking doctors in this world.

767
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:28,400
You know, Shaq has a fucking doctorate.

768
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,440
All right, if you really want to get technical Shaquille O'Neal has a fucking doctorate.

769
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,920
He doesn't go around screaming at the fact that he has a doctorate.

770
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:36,320
But is he Harvard trained?

771
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:37,920
No, that's the real world.

772
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,120
No, I didn't think he's Harvard trained.

773
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:41,120
You know what?

774
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:42,120
She's an Ivy League school.

775
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,480
Come to think of it, she's right.

776
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,480
She's Harvard trained.

777
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,120
She just has to do whatever she wants.

778
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:47,120
So true.

779
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,680
She can push little children over and steal their booster seats.

780
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:50,680
Oh, bad.

781
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,680
So yes, she was actually arrested and taken to jail for assault on this woman.

782
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,880
She battered the shit out of this woman in front of a restaurant.

783
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,440
This poor lady was just trying to have breakfast with her family.

784
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,120
Could you imagine like you're sitting there and is like, I need that bastard saying hi,

785
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:04,120
hi, hi, hi, right.

786
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,120
And you're like, I'm sorry fucking what?

787
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,120
No thanks.

788
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:08,120
I need to donate to the funds.

789
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:09,120
Thank you.

790
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,120
Pancakes halfway in your mouth.

791
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,120
You know, like I'm sorry fucking what?

792
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,120
It's crazy.

793
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:18,080
Amy entered an Alfred plea in order to receive a lesser sentence of probation plus anger

794
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,400
management classes.

795
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:20,640
What is an Alfred plea?

796
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:27,840
An Alfred plea is when you, you're not necessarily saying that you are.

797
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,960
You are pleading guilty, but you understand that the evidence that's put forth against

798
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,600
you is enough to convict you.

799
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,360
Oh, so you're not pleading guilty, but you're not pleading not guilty.

800
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:37,360
Right.

801
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:38,960
But it's kind of like a no contest, but not really.

802
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:39,960
Yeah.

803
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,760
Like a no contest is like, I just don't feel like fighting it.

804
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:43,880
You could have evidence against me.

805
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,200
I don't want to go through a trial process kind of with an Alfred plea is like an Alfred

806
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,200
plea.

807
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,760
They'll show you all the evidence they have against you and then you just plead like

808
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:52,760
Alfred.

809
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:59,520
Yeah, you say that.

810
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,000
How does a defendant plead?

811
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,000
Alfred.

812
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:03,000
Alfred.

813
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,840
All right, move on.

814
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,360
Once Amy's probation was up, the family was looking for a new start.

815
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,360
Clearly.

816
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,720
Like everybody knows I'm insane in this, in this town.

817
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:13,720
I'm just going to leave.

818
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:14,720
Well, shit.

819
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:20,520
Like now that, okay, if it doesn't fucking ring any bells before with her brother, I

820
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:26,840
had to pick up, sorry, this intense outburst of a random fucking stranger because of a

821
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:27,840
booster seat.

822
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,840
Should be, should be.

823
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,440
Yeah, she's I have like the weird burps.

824
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,560
Like I can't burp, but I have like the bubble, like the air.

825
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:37,560
I hate that.

826
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:38,560
Yeah.

827
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,960
A fun fact for anyone listening that doesn't know me in person.

828
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:41,960
I can't burp.

829
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:42,960
It's true.

830
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:43,960
And she has to throw up.

831
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:44,960
I don't throw up.

832
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,320
I have to like essentially throw up and nothing comes out.

833
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,360
She's like, it's just air.

834
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,360
Really bad.

835
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,040
If anyone else has that problem, email me because I feel like I'm lonely.

836
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,040
Lonely.

837
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,680
All right, go ahead.

838
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,880
Amy applied at the University of Huntsville in Alabama as an assistant professor.

839
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,600
And although it was a coveted job, Amy seemed flippant about her position there.

840
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,960
She was just like, whatever.

841
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:10,960
It's not Harvard.

842
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:11,960
I went to Harvard.

843
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:12,960
I went to Harvard.

844
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,920
This is below me, right?

845
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,440
Once again, Amy's reputation was to follow her in this role as well.

846
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,160
It doesn't matter where the fuck you go.

847
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,600
The place isn't the problem.

848
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:22,600
You were the problem.

849
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,200
You're the problem.

850
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,640
Her peers would often say she was aloof and strange in meetings.

851
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:32,120
She would go off on tangents that had nothing to do with topics at hand, seemingly to hog

852
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:37,600
the meetings and control whatever was being talked about while maintaining focus on herself.

853
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:39,440
I can diagnose her.

854
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,680
Yeah, we're gonna.

855
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,840
We are gonna.

856
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:50,400
Starting up to 2009, Amy was seen as one of the worst performing professors at UAH.

857
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,880
She would be argumentative with students when they asked for help.

858
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:55,880
She would.

859
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:56,880
I'm sorry, your job.

860
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:57,880
Yeah.

861
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:58,880
You can mad at students for needing help.

862
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:04,520
She would constantly ask for transfers for students to be placed in other classes or

863
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,280
dismiss students from her lab, kicking them out for the day.

864
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,200
Like just getting irate with students for asking questions.

865
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,800
Like again, your fucking job, what you signed up for.

866
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:15,800
Students.

867
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,240
What did you get paid to do?

868
00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:22,800
Students began to notice that she never really answered any of the questions that they posed.

869
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,320
And I'm sure this upset Amy not knowing the answers.

870
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,320
Of course.

871
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,800
It got so bad that a large group of students signed a petition to request Dr. Amy Bishop

872
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,360
be removed from the campus as a professor saying that she was, quote, ineffective in

873
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,640
the classroom and odd unsettling ways that she would handle her classroom.

874
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:44,560
Oh my God.

875
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,000
Mass shooting at the school.

876
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,800
This did not convince the university.

877
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:50,800
No.

878
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,800
Stop.

879
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,960
I was kidding again.

880
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,120
This did not convince the university, however, and they kept Amy in their biology department

881
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:01,320
until 2009.

882
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:02,920
In March 2009.

883
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:03,920
She still worked there.

884
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:04,920
Yes.

885
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:05,920
She still did.

886
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:06,920
Okay.

887
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,880
So that was just kind of like a breakdown from like 2000.

888
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,360
I think she started in like 2003 for like five, six years.

889
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,040
That was just kind of the reputation that she started building for herself is that she

890
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,640
was a shitty professor.

891
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:24,880
Well that's kind of lame that like the university like didn't take all those students seriously.

892
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,440
However in March of 2009, Amy was informed that due to her performance, the university

893
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:34,600
would be denying her tenure and that this upcoming school year was to be her last at

894
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,800
UAH.

895
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,360
The university gave her until March 2010 to find another position somewhere else.

896
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:42,560
Amy was livid of course.

897
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,560
Uh, yeah.

898
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,600
This is now the second time she's been fired because of her own actions.

899
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:47,600
No one else's.

900
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:48,600
Right.

901
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,600
She was convinced that there was some kind of a coup between the staff and that the

902
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,280
staff just didn't like her.

903
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,920
She appealed the denial of her tenure after she heard that a fellow biology professor

904
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,560
called her crazy.

905
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,520
Amy filed a case with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission saying that she was

906
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,000
discriminated against because she was a woman and that this professor saying that she was

907
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,240
crazy was like kind of proof that this was discrimination.

908
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:13,240
Yeah.

909
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:17,600
When asked if this professor had said things like this, he actually doubled down and was

910
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,120
like shit, yeah I said those things.

911
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,120
He was-

912
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,120
Say I'm fun care.

913
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,120
He didn't fun care.

914
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,920
He was quoted and saying quote, I said she was crazy multiple times and I stand by that.

915
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,080
This woman has a pattern of erratic behavior.

916
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,000
She did things that weren't really normal.

917
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,920
She's just very out of touch with reality end quote.

918
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:36,920
Spit and fax.

919
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:37,920
Yeah.

920
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,920
Spit and fax.

921
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,840
Like hashtag for women.

922
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:46,120
He doesn't just work in the biology department, he works in the psychology department.

923
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,800
Both Amy and Jimmy decided to fight against this denial of her tenure.

924
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,000
Jimmy's just hanging out this whole time.

925
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,000
He is.

926
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,840
They even hired a lawyer to handle the case.

927
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,520
Both were confident that the denial would be overturned.

928
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:03,720
Yeah, after a thorough investigation, it was determined that the university worked well

929
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:06,960
with its rights to not accept Amy back for the following year.

930
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,120
And then the denial of tenure was actually sustained.

931
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:16,760
The thing is is that she clearly has this mindset of like there is no way that it's

932
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:17,760
me.

933
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:18,760
Like I'm not the problem.

934
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:19,760
Right.

935
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,840
I have to find what the problem is because there's absolutely no way in hell that it's

936
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,840
me.

937
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:24,840
Right.

938
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,840
Same thing with the other place that she left, whatever.

939
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,160
There's no way that it's me.

940
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,160
Who else messed up?

941
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:29,160
Why?

942
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,160
You know?

943
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:31,160
And then the professional, it's going to be crazy.

944
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,160
That's why they're not giving me tenure.

945
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,160
Not because I fucked up or I haven't been for the last time.

946
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,440
Because I'm a woman and I'm in the sciences, therefore I am crazy.

947
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,760
Like that's what she's trying to say.

948
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:39,760
They're saying, you know?

949
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,280
No, you're not teaching the students anything.

950
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,280
Yeah.

951
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,480
And you don't seem to like understand that it's your problem, your work ethic, your

952
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:49,480
whatever.

953
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,840
Like, and if it's too much for you to handle, maybe back up a little bit, you know?

954
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:53,840
Exactly.

955
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:54,840
Instead of taking more on.

956
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,840
She's like, they promoted her.

957
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,840
They promoted her to department head of biology.

958
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:01,840
What?

959
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:02,840
You ready?

960
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:03,840
Yes.

961
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:11,200
On February 12th, 2010, you always know when you pull out like a specific date.

962
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:16,120
On February 12, 2010, Amy attended her morning classes as usual.

963
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,480
Later in the day, around 3.30, a meeting was scheduled for the biology and neuroscience

964
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,960
department to gather and discuss the upcoming school year.

965
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,080
Amy decided to attend this meeting, which was only a little unusual because she wasn't

966
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:30,840
going to return after March.

967
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,880
But either way, some people didn't find it odd at all since it was to be her last meeting

968
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,560
there at the university.

969
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:40,280
And maybe she still wanted to be included and didn't feel, you know, didn't want to

970
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,440
feel excluded because that is still her department, right?

971
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:44,640
Okay.

972
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:49,480
Around 4 p.m., almost an hour after the meeting began, Amy suddenly stood up and produced

973
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,360
a 9mm handgun from her lap.

974
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,600
She began firing at her colleagues, starting from the closest to her and so on around the

975
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,600
table.

976
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,440
So we're going to get into the victims of this crime.

977
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:02,440
Oh my god.

978
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,800
Dr. Gopi Padilla was the first to be shot.

979
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:11,440
He listed his interests on his bio as quote, engineering tree biomass for bioenergy, functional

980
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,560
genomics of plant-microbe interactions, and plant-molecular biology and biotechnology,

981
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:18,560
end quote.

982
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:19,560
Damn.

983
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:20,560
Very smart man.

984
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:21,560
Yeah.

985
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,160
Dr. Gopi Padilla left behind his wife, Vanny, and his two young daughters.

986
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:30,600
He was described as a helpful man who loved culture and the arts and was a major contributor

987
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,400
to the scientific achievements in bioengineering all over the world.

988
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:36,520
He was just 52.

989
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,520
He was shot down.

990
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,520
Oh.

991
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:44,880
Dr. Adriel Johnson was a biology professor at UAH with a focus on cell biology and nutritional

992
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:46,520
physiology.

993
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,840
Faith was very important to Dr. Johnson, and his sense of community drew him to be a leader

994
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,440
amongst young people.

995
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:56,620
He chose to dedicate his time to the enriching of the lives of people around him through

996
00:43:56,620 --> 00:43:58,280
ministry and his compassion.

997
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,600
Dr. Johnson's life was taken that day at the hands of Amy Bishop.

998
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:08,320
Left behind was his wife, who was also a doctor, and two sons, one of which bears his namesake.

999
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,640
He was just 52.

1000
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:16,120
Dr. Maria Regland Davis was an assistant professor of molecular biology and plant genetics.

1001
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,280
Dr. Davis was excited about grants that she was going to be receiving for research the

1002
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,440
following year and had many publications.

1003
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,720
She was also looking ahead at some pretty big things.

1004
00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:29,440
She had a lot of graduates under her belt.

1005
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,960
She was shot and killed that day at age 50.

1006
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:39,260
Dr. Luis Cruz Vera is a Mexico native, and he has a PhD in genetics and molecular biology.

1007
00:44:39,260 --> 00:44:43,280
He was an assistant professor who had started at the university just a few years prior.

1008
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,720
Today, Dr. Cruz Vera is one of the highest ranking scientists not just in the US, but

1009
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:48,720
in the world.

1010
00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:49,720
Oh, wow.

1011
00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:54,440
He was at Huntsville, although he briefly left in 2014, but returned later that year.

1012
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,360
And he has resumed teaching a week just after the shooting, like he was shot in the chest

1013
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,080
and he returned a week later.

1014
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,680
And he is still alive today.

1015
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:07,480
Dr. Joseph Leahy was dedicated to his faith and to his family with a wife and two boys.

1016
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,720
He was a microbiologist and started at the university in 1993.

1017
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,840
He was described as approachable and would love to make complicated scientific ideas

1018
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,040
accessible and digestible to his students with his fun-loving personality.

1019
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:21,040
That's so sweet.

1020
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,040
I love teachers like that.

1021
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:23,040
Me too.

1022
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,000
Dr. Leahy was shot in the head, but he would ultimately survive, although he would lose

1023
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,080
one of his eyes due to the damage that he suffered.

1024
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,080
Oh my gosh.

1025
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,760
Dr. Leahy would actually pass seven years later due to a heart attack, but it was not

1026
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,120
in relation to the shooting that day.

1027
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,120
Wow.

1028
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:37,120
He did survive the shooting.

1029
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,000
Stephanie Monticello was Dr. Padilla's assistant and had actually sat in the meeting in order

1030
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,520
to take notes for the doctor when Amy began firing.

1031
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,520
Oh my gosh.

1032
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:50,160
Being one of the last hit, Stephanie had time to shield her face from the bullet that traveled

1033
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,400
through her ring finger and into her head.

1034
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,600
She had she not shielded her face, the bullet likely would have killed her, but since the

1035
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:01,840
bullet struck her finger first, it actually ricocheted and landed in her cheek, and it

1036
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,560
saved her life.

1037
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:07,080
She too would lose an eye and go through fine motor skill therapy, but would ultimately

1038
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,000
make an almost complete recovery.

1039
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,000
Wow.

1040
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,640
Deborah Moriarty witnessed the entire attack from start to finish, which only lasted a

1041
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,800
total of 45 seconds.

1042
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,080
I bet that felt like hours.

1043
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,080
I bet it did.

1044
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,760
That's so fucking scary.

1045
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:25,680
In almost a slow motion movie, Deborah weighed her options as the horror unfolded in front

1046
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:26,680
of her.

1047
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,880
She was standing pretty much to the left of Amy.

1048
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,400
So Amy started on the right hand side and was going around the room.

1049
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:36,200
She had known Amy for years and was shocked when Amy pulled out a gun.

1050
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:40,120
When everyone started to duck down, Deborah remembers reaching out to Amy to try to get

1051
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:42,320
her to stop or something.

1052
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,440
She said about this moment that she felt like if she could just get Amy to look at her,

1053
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:47,920
Amy would snap out of it.

1054
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,600
Yeah, I mean, I can understand that way of thinking.

1055
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:57,720
Once Deborah grabbed Amy's leg after kind of ducking, Amy pointed the gun at Deborah.

1056
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:02,480
Deborah began to say, quote, Amy, think about my grandson, think about my daughter, Amy,

1057
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,960
you know I've helped you, I will help you again.

1058
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,960
It's me, it's me.

1059
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:11,360
She said later, part of my brain thought that she'll go, oh, it's Deb, and then she'll

1060
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:12,480
just stop.

1061
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:17,320
And Amy pulled the trigger, but the gun began to click.

1062
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,880
Amy tried to shoot several times each time being met with a click, click, click.

1063
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,120
Amy turned and ran out of the room.

1064
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,640
A few other professors who had not been hit by gunshots had began to barricade the door.

1065
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:35,120
Dr. Cruz Vera, the one that was shot in the chest, he called 911 because at this time

1066
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,240
he hadn't realized that he had been shot.

1067
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:38,240
Bad bitch alert.

1068
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:39,240
Right.

1069
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:43,320
But he did soon realize while he was on the phone with 911 operators and then passed the

1070
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,080
phone to someone else.

1071
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,640
The professors all began to treat each other's wounds, taking off shirts and dressing each

1072
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:49,920
other.

1073
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,400
And Amy started to make her way through the Shelby Center building.

1074
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,200
She's just like walking around, like casual.

1075
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,600
She had actually hit up a bathroom first, she washed her hands and the gun before throwing

1076
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,120
it a trash can and then ultimately exited the building.

1077
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:08,000
Oh my gosh, that Deb, Deb, Deb, Deb was the one that tried to stop her.

1078
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:13,200
How gut-wrenching is that to know that even though you thought she was going to step out

1079
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,320
of it, she tried to shoot you even though she wasn't successful.

1080
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,920
She would have killed you or at least injured you if she still had bullets.

1081
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:26,200
A lot of people actually credit Deb to making it kind of stop because she interacted with

1082
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:33,280
her and she kind of took the focus off and then just gun jammed.

1083
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:37,480
As she made her way out the building, there was police officers waiting there.

1084
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,080
They immediately took her into custody, she didn't get to leave the scene.

1085
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:47,320
By the way, Lily, which is her eldest child, she was 18 at the time of the shootings.

1086
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:54,000
And one of the professors, she was also studying biology and biochemistry, I think.

1087
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:58,320
One of her professors was in the room or was one of the people that were shot.

1088
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,320
Oh my gosh.

1089
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:05,920
I didn't specify which one, but eventually she would go back to Huntsville and attend

1090
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:06,920
in the fall.

1091
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,120
That's twice as traumatizing for Lily because not only is she experiencing a school shooting,

1092
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,920
but it's also a home like her mom.

1093
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,680
Oh my gosh.

1094
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:22,920
Her grandfather, which was Samuel Bishop, which was Amy's father, would put out an article

1095
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:28,400
about how difficult it was for the children to move on after that and for them to attend

1096
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:34,280
any school around in the area if your mother was this perpetrator of a school shooting.

1097
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,080
Who's to say that someone's not going to come and try to get revenge or whatever?

1098
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:39,080
Yeah, exactly.

1099
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:42,560
So I don't know what happened to Lily, but I didn't want to research too much on the

1100
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,800
kids just because I wanted to respect their privacy as well.

1101
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:46,800
Yeah.

1102
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:48,560
Because that's got to be really, really hard.

1103
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:49,640
Yeah, definitely.

1104
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,040
Once news broke of the incident, people were shocked.

1105
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,840
It is highly unlikely that a woman would commit a mass shooting.

1106
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,200
Especially a professor.

1107
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:02,000
In fact, according to an article published by The Guardian, an FBI study once showed

1108
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:09,640
that out of 160 active shooter incidences between 2000 and 2013 found that only six of those

1109
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,760
instances or about 4% were perpetrated by a female shooter.

1110
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,760
Wow.

1111
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:15,760
So it's very, very rare.

1112
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:16,760
Yeah.

1113
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,360
It's really strange that she took out...

1114
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,120
Okay, so she was just kind of going back to her brother.

1115
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,280
She was an ingrained brother, obviously jealous, whatever, kills him.

1116
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,360
And then it's interesting that she...

1117
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,480
And she tries to bomb the other, you know, the Harvard guy, the doctor.

1118
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:36,640
It's interesting that she took out her anger on the colleagues and not the dean or whoever

1119
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,120
fired her, you know, the...

1120
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:39,120
Yeah.

1121
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:40,960
What's the head of the department or whatever?

1122
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:47,280
Like whoever gave her the option to leave or be fired from the university, it's interesting

1123
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,400
she didn't try to just target him.

1124
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,200
Right, yeah, or them.

1125
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,640
Yeah, I think it's more probably because I think she has this mentality that like specific

1126
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:05,240
people or like institutions are working against her and not necessarily a person, right?

1127
00:51:05,240 --> 00:51:06,240
So like...

1128
00:51:06,240 --> 00:51:07,240
Yeah.

1129
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:08,920
I mean, it's kind of similar with the waitress thing, right?

1130
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:14,160
Like it's like she could have berated the waitress and then wanted to speak to the manager,

1131
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:15,160
but she didn't.

1132
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,760
She took it out on the unsuspecting people.

1133
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:17,760
Yeah, that's true.

1134
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:18,760
You know what I mean?

1135
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:25,520
Like I think that she finds that kind of like weak spot, I guess, because like I guess Rosenbaum

1136
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:30,480
was technically her... Rosenberg, I'm sorry, Rosenberg was technically her supervisor,

1137
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:35,520
so I can get that, but she did it in a very sneaky little bitch way.

1138
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:36,520
Yeah, that's true.

1139
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,520
You know what I mean?

1140
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,560
Like she didn't try to harm specifically him.

1141
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,320
Like she planted a fucking bomb that anybody could pick up.

1142
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,520
Like that's bullshit.

1143
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:46,520
Yeah.

1144
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:51,760
Amy's court-appointed lawyer expressed his concern that Amy was... this is a quote, a

1145
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,320
paranoid schizophrenic, which we now know is not the correct term.

1146
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,320
We know it's schizophrenic spectrum disorder.

1147
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:02,120
With a team of psychologists at her disposal, it was determined that Amy did suffer from

1148
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,200
this disorder and was put on medication.

1149
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:10,160
She had also expressed that many times in her life she had had gaps of time missing,

1150
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,040
not remembering things that seemed to be bigger things in her life, like specific things that

1151
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,040
people would know, or like things that like her mom and her dad would probably know like,

1152
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,640
you know, that was like a really big thing and you don't remember that happening, things

1153
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:23,760
like that.

1154
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:29,360
So this kind of inferred that maybe she was experiencing some type of a mental break.

1155
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:33,760
In June it was made public that Amy would be investigated for the 1986 shooting of her

1156
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:39,160
brother and just two days later she would actually try to take her own life in jail.

1157
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,320
What?

1158
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,160
She was not successful in this attempt.

1159
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,760
Amy would plead not guilty by reason of insanity in the murder and attempted murder cases of

1160
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,920
the Huntsville shooting.

1161
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,520
She eventually opted to take a plea of guilty to be spared the death penalty and in fact

1162
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:59,040
all of the survivors of that meeting that were in that room, because there were also

1163
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,440
other people in that room, all of the survivors said that they would also agree not to seek

1164
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:04,440
a death penalty.

1165
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,000
Like they didn't want the death penalty to be sought.

1166
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:08,400
And they all knew her.

1167
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:09,400
Exactly.

1168
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,480
I think they all knew that she was troubled.

1169
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:12,480
Yeah.

1170
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,680
It was a pretty cut and dry case and on September 24th, 2012, Amy was stood in

1171
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:18,680
prison for the death penalty.

1172
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:19,880
She was sentenced to life without parole.

1173
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:24,080
Amy would eventually not stand trial for the suspected murder of her brother, although

1174
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:27,880
the circumstances around the death were a little wonky.

1175
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:33,160
Just what we described earlier about her trying to hold somebody at gunpoint or maybe not

1176
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:34,720
or whatever.

1177
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:39,240
But the truth of the matter is there was only one witness and that witness was her mother,

1178
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:40,240
supposedly.

1179
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:41,240
Yeah.

1180
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:47,560
And Judith testified during the evidentiary hearing that what she witnessed was that Amy

1181
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:55,800
yes, had raised this gun, but her finger wasn't on the trigger is apparently what Judith said.

1182
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,040
But because she was the only witness to the crime, they kind of took her word for it.

1183
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:00,040
Yeah.

1184
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:01,040
But again, I repeat.

1185
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:02,040
No, I agree.

1186
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,200
The gun doesn't fucking go off unless you pull the trigger.

1187
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:05,200
I agree.

1188
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:06,200
Absolutely.

1189
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,960
Unless you're in like the fucking 1800s maybe.

1190
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:08,960
Yeah.

1191
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,160
You got a bone stick.

1192
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:12,160
Yeah.

1193
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,160
Wow.

1194
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:18,600
So they did forever and for good label Seth's death as an accident.

1195
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,080
Wow.

1196
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:21,520
In a crazy turn of events.

1197
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:22,520
No.

1198
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:30,840
On April 18, 2021, Amy's youngest child, Seth Bishop Anderson, at this time 21, was actually

1199
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:35,360
shot and killed by a neighborhood youth while the two were in the car playing with guns

1200
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:38,720
and a moving vehicle with their other friends.

1201
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:39,720
He was shot and killed.

1202
00:54:39,720 --> 00:54:40,800
Was he shot in the chest?

1203
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:41,800
I don't know.

1204
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:42,800
I don't think so.

1205
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:43,800
I don't know.

1206
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:45,480
I didn't say.

1207
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,760
Either way, this young man has since been arrested and tried for manslaughter.

1208
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,080
He was 18 at the time when he accidentally shot Seth.

1209
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,080
An accidental shooting.

1210
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:56,080
Wow.

1211
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,240
Isn't that bizarre?

1212
00:54:59,240 --> 00:55:00,600
Full fucking circle.

1213
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,000
Full fucking circle.

1214
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,600
That's wild.

1215
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,800
You'd think if it was like his reincarnate though, like that Seth would have been like,

1216
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:11,640
I don't like guns, stay away from me.

1217
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:16,520
Well I think it's interesting that Seth made it to 21, but that Amy was 21 when she shot

1218
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:17,520
her brother.

1219
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:21,400
And he was shot by an 18 year old.

1220
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:22,760
I don't like that either.

1221
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,200
You know what I mean?

1222
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,520
He was 18, she was 21, he was 21, and he was 18.

1223
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:30,520
That's bizarre.

1224
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:31,520
And they share this.

1225
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:32,520
It's very coincidental.

1226
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:33,520
It's so crazy.

1227
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:35,440
That is wild.

1228
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,160
Amy is still in prison today.

1229
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:39,120
Her appeals have been denied so far.

1230
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:43,000
There's a Julia Tutwiler's facility for women in Alabama.

1231
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,560
She is 56 years old.

1232
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:47,560
That is an intense case.

1233
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:48,560
That is really intense.

1234
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:54,040
There's not like a whole lot to the beginning or like, we don't really know what, it's kind

1235
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:55,440
of like the Stoutie case, right?

1236
00:55:55,440 --> 00:56:01,920
We don't really know about Diana before Diana or Amy in those formidable years when you

1237
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:07,960
have a lot of exposure to, I don't know, I guess it was just she grew up in a household

1238
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:14,080
where her dad was really educated and maybe that was like, her goal is to also be educated.

1239
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:15,720
And then here comes her brother.

1240
00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:19,320
You know, he's a shithead for being smart, which is ridiculous.

1241
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:26,800
And well, with, you know, schizophrenia spectrum, I will say, and we've talked about this before,

1242
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:30,520
but you know, in case someone hasn't heard those other episodes, I'll just repeat.

1243
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,880
It does present itself in the early 20s.

1244
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,720
Usually it's actually like the later 20s for women, but it can present itself in the early

1245
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:44,560
20s, which makes sense because she was 21 when this whole almost like mental break happened,

1246
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:45,560
if you will.

1247
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:46,560
It's true.

1248
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,080
And she described the paranoia that she felt after the house had been broken into.

1249
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:57,680
And usually, usually it coincides, especially if it's not like genetic, like other people

1250
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:58,680
in our family might have had it.

1251
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,320
But you know how we've talked about like epigenetics and like predisposition to developing a disorder

1252
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:06,600
and then like an environmental trauma will like cause that to present itself.

1253
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:07,600
Right.

1254
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,800
So usually it's only brought on once the trauma has been experienced, although there's not

1255
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,280
that we know of any trauma that happened.

1256
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,520
But who knows, there could have been something that she never told anybody that happened,

1257
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:23,160
that happened to her, you know, that caused those symptoms to present themselves or just

1258
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:24,680
age development in general.

1259
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,840
Maybe she had gotten it passed on hereditarily and it just presented itself when it comes

1260
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:30,840
out.

1261
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:36,520
And it seems to me like the breaking point, when she got these symptoms, that's what made

1262
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:42,320
her maybe kill Seth or at least like get the gun and kind of, you know, play out that scenario.

1263
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:47,160
Maybe the article, you know, that you said she read and then again, we talk about routine

1264
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,440
all the time.

1265
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:54,680
The routine when she was at Harvard maybe helped her keep her urges or her paranoia at bay,

1266
00:57:54,680 --> 00:58:00,320
but maybe not her, you know, aggressive tendencies like it's a controlling this.

1267
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:04,440
One thing at the university and then one thing happens and it kind of like pushes the glass

1268
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:05,440
over.

1269
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:06,440
For sure.

1270
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:07,440
Yeah.

1271
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,560
I think, you know, like you said with the Harvard thing, I think once she realized that she

1272
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:17,080
didn't have that routine or that maintenance, I guess, then that's when she's like, oh shit,

1273
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,280
like I'm going to lose my job here.

1274
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,520
I've already lost my job here and I don't have this routine.

1275
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:21,760
And that's when the IHOP thing happened.

1276
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:22,920
That's when the IHOP thing happened.

1277
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,680
That's when the bombing happened or the failed bombing.

1278
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:32,120
And then this instance at Huntsville and I think that, yeah, I think it's the fact that

1279
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,560
she's like, it's almost like, fuck no, I'm not going to go back there.

1280
00:58:35,560 --> 00:58:41,040
You're not going to make me not be in this routine or be in this, you know, position

1281
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,960
of control of my life.

1282
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:43,960
Yeah.

1283
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,200
Like even down to the kids, like when she was attending Harvard, when she had the kids,

1284
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,280
I bet she had a lot of routine, you know?

1285
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:54,520
I mean, she clearly wrote 137 page dissertation.

1286
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:58,920
And clearly a lot of people read it, even though it probably wasn't the best dissertation,

1287
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,520
she had the wherewithal to sit down and do that and commit to that.

1288
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,440
It was probably likely a lot of routine for her.

1289
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,440
Yeah.

1290
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,960
And I was actually thinking earlier when you said, you know, the symptoms and stuff that

1291
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:13,400
she was showing, I thought she might have had or potentially been struggling with narcissistic

1292
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:14,400
personality disorder.

1293
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:15,400
I agree.

1294
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:22,440
But now that we're talking about the Schizophrenic spectrum, there's actually a subset of schizophrenia,

1295
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,560
which we now know there's a bunch of different types of schizophrenia, and one of them is

1296
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:26,920
that grandiose sense of self.

1297
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:27,920
That's true.

1298
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,800
So it might have just been that, you know?

1299
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:30,800
Inductibility, yeah.

1300
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:31,800
Exactly.

1301
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:36,920
My point in saying all that is that's why it's so important to have people advocating

1302
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:42,600
for you, people on your side that are going to help you get help, because when it gets

1303
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:48,560
to this point of untreated, it can now, it's obviously affecting other people, but then

1304
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:53,960
it puts everyone else that she's working with in a position of, let's say hypothetically

1305
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,520
speaking, they know what's going on and they know that she needs that routine.

1306
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,960
Now it's almost like she can do whatever she wants and we can't fire her because if we

1307
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:03,960
fire her, God knows what's going to happen, right?

1308
01:00:03,960 --> 01:00:06,600
So that's why it's really important to get the treatment.

1309
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,400
Of course, not everyone has the luxury of seeking treatment or affording treatment,

1310
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,480
but I'm saying that because if you know anybody that is maybe struggling with something like

1311
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:19,320
this, especially if you're, you know, I think about that all the time when I become a parent,

1312
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:23,160
like I am going to advocate for my kids to get any treatment or help that they need because

1313
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,320
I want to nip it in the bud, so to speak.

1314
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:31,120
Like I want to not have that later on because again, I'm sure people were scared to, I'm

1315
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,600
sure they were scared to let her go from her job or scared to talk back to her work and

1316
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,840
stuff because it's the unpredictability and it's unfortunate, but that is something that

1317
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,680
comes with untreated mental illness sometimes.

1318
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:42,680
I agree with that.

1319
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:47,320
I also do think that it's like, as long as, and I've met people like this, as long as

1320
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:52,480
I, like if I come in at like a hot 98, you know what I mean?

1321
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,000
Nobody's going to fuck with me.

1322
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,160
If I come in, I'm always at this level, you know, and then say I'm like down here one

1323
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:02,760
day, like I walk into work and I'm like at a 50 or 60 and I'm being kind of personable,

1324
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,960
people will remember that one time I was at a 98 and they're going to be like, I don't

1325
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,680
know if I want to fuck with that person.

1326
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:09,680
Exactly.

1327
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:14,640
And that in itself is like a part of our environment as people is like you show people what you

1328
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:16,520
want them to see of you.

1329
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,320
And if, again, if you're just going to come in and just be at that 98, like right when

1330
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:22,720
you walk in, nobody's going to fuck with you, you know?

1331
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:25,560
And I do think it was a little bit of that in my opinion.

1332
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:30,080
I feel like as, you know, she probably felt like the odds were against her being a woman

1333
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:33,600
in, you know, a scientific field and things like that.

1334
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:39,640
And I think that maybe that was driven home a little too soon because Seth was successful

1335
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,080
at everything and nobody batted an eye at him, you know?

1336
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:44,920
Well, it's probably because he was a man.

1337
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:45,920
Yeah, yeah.

1338
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:50,800
And it's also one of those things too, where it's like, I feel like sometimes children

1339
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,440
or young adults or whoever can kind of be overlooked by their parents, especially if

1340
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,320
like another one of their kids is doing really great, because I feel like the parents can

1341
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,640
kind of get like the cloud like, oh, well, all my kids are fine.

1342
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:02,800
Look at Seth, he's doing so well.

1343
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,080
So like all the other kids or other kid in this, you know, situation must be okay because

1344
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:08,280
he's fine, you know?

1345
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:09,280
Yeah.

1346
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:10,280
It's like a person to person basis.

1347
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:11,280
Right.

1348
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,800
It's like check on all your kiddos, check on all your friends, you know, just do your

1349
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:14,800
due diligence.

1350
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,840
Like that's why I'm so interested in the field of psychology and educating people on it because

1351
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,280
it's like, you don't know what to look for.

1352
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:25,120
So educate yourself on what to look for so that you can prevent this from happening in

1353
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:26,120
the future.

1354
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:27,120
Sure, yeah.

1355
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:28,620
Even if it's a conversation, sorry.

1356
01:02:28,620 --> 01:02:31,640
Even if it's a conversation, just one conversation you need to have, you know?

1357
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:32,640
Exactly.

1358
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:33,640
Yeah.

1359
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:34,640
Dang, that was a really great one.

1360
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:35,640
That's really different than anything else we've ever done.

1361
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:36,640
Right?

1362
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:40,640
I thought it was, you know, I think I might have even mentioned that in the case before

1363
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,800
or maybe once I break down when I was like, I'm going to do something different.

1364
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:49,960
Because again, we don't hear a lot about that, about women being a perpetrator of a,

1365
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,200
like a mass shooting like that, especially a school shooting.

1366
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:59,720
And you know, of course, like now we're so desensitized to stuff like this happening.

1367
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:05,500
But yeah, especially then, like early 2000s, it was really rare, especially for a woman.

1368
01:03:05,500 --> 01:03:10,960
But again, it's, it just shows that like certain diagnoses, they don't have genders.

1369
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:12,040
Yeah, exactly.

1370
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:16,000
You know, diagnoses, schizophrenia, spectrum disorder does not have a gender.

1371
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,000
They don't discriminate.

1372
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,000
Yeah, exactly.

1373
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,000
So.

1374
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:20,400
Wow, that's really interesting.

1375
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:24,320
If you like this episode and you want to hear more, we actually do have a mental breakdown

1376
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:28,480
earlier in our episode season about schizophrenia spectrum that Coal brought.

1377
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:31,720
So if you want to do a little bit more research on that, feel free to listen to that episode

1378
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:33,360
if you haven't already.

1379
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,720
And again, if anybody has any suggestions for cases or mental breakdowns, please let us

1380
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:37,720
know.

1381
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:38,720
Again, you can email us.

1382
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:39,720
You'll have our handles.

1383
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,160
I said them at the beginning, but that was a really great case.

1384
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:43,160
I'm happy you brought that one.

1385
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:44,160
I would, I'd never heard about that before.

1386
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:45,160
Yeah.

1387
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:46,160
I always say that.

1388
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:47,160
I never knew though.

1389
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:48,160
It's probably recently.

1390
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:49,160
I mean, it's in the last 10 years.

1391
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:50,160
Yeah.

1392
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:52,880
And we're going to, I think in the next, next case that I'm going to bring, I don't think

1393
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:54,160
a lot of people know about it either.

1394
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:59,000
So it's going to be like a couple of like peppering in some not so known cases around the really

1395
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:00,560
ones that we've been doing.

1396
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,200
So, well, that was a great, good job.

1397
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:05,200
Thanks for bringing that.

1398
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:07,520
My butt is asleep again.

1399
01:04:07,520 --> 01:04:09,240
You got anything else?

1400
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:10,240
Nope.

1401
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:11,240
Okay.

1402
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:12,240
We will talk to you later.

1403
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:13,240
Talk to you later.

1404
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:14,240
Love you.

1405
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:15,240
Bye.

1406
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:16,240
Love you.

1407
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:17,240
Bye.

1408
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:23,360
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