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Hello!

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My name is Kenna.

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I'm Koelle.

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And welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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Diagnosing a killer.

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Is there an echo in here?

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Did that sound the same?

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Yeah, I did.

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Woo!

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I'm... God man.

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This has been a process.

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Strap on your boots.

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Strap up your other things like suspenders or something.

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Yeah.

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Get ready for this one.

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I have spent the better part of like three weeks researching this.

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And it's so much.

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I was literally typing up until like 30 minutes ago.

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And now I'm completely... I don't even think I'm done.

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I left out a lot of stuff too.

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How long are we gonna be sitting here?

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This is gonna be probably our first two hour episode.

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We don't have another two hour episode?

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It's like an hour 45 I think when we did BTK.

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An hour 58.

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Yeah.

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But you guys have been asking for super long episodes so that you can get all of the content.

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So we are going to yet again sit here until our butts fall asleep.

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And we're going to give you all the content in one episode.

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Do you want to know who I'm talking about?

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Yes.

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Get ready for one of the most infamous and prolific serial killer stories.

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Everyone knows who he is.

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I felt it was fitting because he had a feature at the end of the new Dahmer series.

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So we're going to be talking about...

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Stop.

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John Wayne Gacy, a.k.a. the Killa Clown.

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Stop.

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Yeah.

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Pogo the Clown.

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He is a lot.

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Oh my gosh.

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He is a lot.

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A lot.

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Alright, we're going to get right on into it because this is going to be a long episode.

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I do just want to put a big blanket statement over this entire thing.

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I'm sure a lot of people listening know that John Wayne Gacy had over 30 victims.

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So there is a lot of back to back to back victims.

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Of course, we don't go into the super graphic detail on the podcast, but there will be a

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lot of talk about that.

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And there is a lot of names that I'm going to mention.

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So I'm doing my best to repeat the names when they come back into the story, but a lot of

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people are involved in this.

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So just let everyone know.

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And lastly, there is victims as young as 14 and as old as 21.

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So these are all very young men that we're going to be talking about just a content warning.

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John Wayne Gacy was born on March 17, 1942 in Chicago, Illinois to John Stanley Gacy and

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Marion Elaine Robinson.

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Did you say the 17th?

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17th.

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17th.

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Oh, that's St. Patrick's Day.

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Oh, it is.

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We're like St. cursed baby day.

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Yeah.

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He was named after the Hollywood icon John Wayne, according to his father.

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He was the second of three children, the eldest being Joanne Gacy and the youngest being Karen

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Gacy.

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So he had two sisters.

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And he was the middle?

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Yes.

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Middle child center.

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Yep.

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Already.

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So I'm going to be referring to the father as John Stanley and of course the child

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as John Wayne.

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Just to let everyone know.

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John Stanley was an auto repair mechanic and World War II veteran while mom Marion was

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a homemaker.

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John Stanley was of Polish and Danish ancestry and grew up in a strictly Catholic family.

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So of course he led that on to his adult life with his kids.

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Contrary to his religious beliefs, however, John Stanley was a less than caring father

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to all three of the children growing up and to his wife alike.

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Probably one of those like you serve me because God sub so kind of men.

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Yeah, and also like I got this growing up so my kids can take it because I took it when

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I was growing up instead of like trying to be better.

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Just like whatever.

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Like John Stanley would often become verbally and physically abusive and belittle John Wayne

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calling him dumb and stupid and often comparing him to his sisters stating that he was inferior

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to them.

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John Wayne was also a quite overweight child, unathletic and introverted the exact opposite

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of what his father wanted for his only son.

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Yeah, did you think like his dad was all like who raw military like he wanted John Wayne

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to be this man?

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Yeah, I think so.

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Manly figure that could go into the military and follow in his father's footsteps kind

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of thing.

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Yeah, I think so, especially because of what happens like a little bit later, which of

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course we'll get into.

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John Stanley would turn around and verbally and physically abuse the sisters as well.

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His favorite method of violence being a razor strap.

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I didn't know what that was, but it's a small piece of leather that I had to look up.

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It has like a metal ring on the end for listeners that don't know what that is.

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So he would like hit them with the end of it with the metal ring.

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So it would be painful.

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Yeah, so that I mean everybody's, well, I wouldn't say everybody's seen Sweeney Todd,

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but yeah, that's what that is.

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It's to like wipe off the single blade.

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And then the hook is to hook on your belt loop.

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John Wayne would frequently try to help his father in the basement while working on various

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projects.

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But when he would be like the least bit clumsy, his father would berate him and call him stupid

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for not knowing how to like do.

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How to walk?

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Yeah.

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Because of this constant abuse, John Wayne would frequently look to his mother for comfort

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while Marion also tried to shield John from the abuse.

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But this led to the father accusing John Wayne of being a quote sissy and a quote mama's

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boy who would probably grow up queer.

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That's a quote.

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He literally said that to John.

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I mean, Marion's like trying to quote unquote protect her children when she could just leave

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his ass.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I guess it is like the fifties at this point.

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Yeah.

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But still, still.

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Gacy would later say that he still loved his father despite all of his shortcomings,

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but he felt as though he was quote, never good enough in his father's eyes.

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He was also noted as saying quote, my dad was domineering.

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He had a different set of values, but also a very stern individual.

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My dad drank a lot and when he drank a lot, he was abusive to my mother and to me.

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But I never swung at my dad because I loved him for what he stood for.

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Not exactly sure what that means.

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You haven't either.

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Stood for what?

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Yeah.

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Abusing children?

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Yeah.

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Who's the pussy now, dad?

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Literally.

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Criminologist Christopher Berry D stated that he did not believe Gacy's upbringing had

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anything to do with the crimes he later committed.

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What?

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He was noted as saying- Sorry, what was this guy's name?

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I'm sorry.

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What was his name?

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He is a hyphenated last name.

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Idiot.

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He was noted as saying quote, millions of kids get beaten from time to time, but that

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doesn't make them serial killers.

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You have three children who suffered the same abuse, but only one turned out to be the rotten

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apple, which is kind of true.

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I mean, sure, not every child that gets abused is going to kill people, but most of the time,

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most children that have been physically abused and beaten as children go on to beat their

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own wives and their own children.

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So yeah, they might not kill them.

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They didn't get that far.

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Yeah.

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But, you know, it's the cycle of abuse.

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It doesn't mean that it didn't- While John Wayne denied suffering any sexual abuse at

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the hands of his father, his childhood was not without this horrific crime.

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When John Wayne was five years old, he went with his mother to visit a friend of hers

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at their home.

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Also at the home, this friend's 15-year-old daughter, who allegedly brought John Wayne upstairs

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to her bedroom and sexually touched him and tickled him.

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The woman found the kids in her bedroom, and John Wayne remembers the mother of the 15-year-old

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girl hit her several times in front of him as punishment for doing this to him.

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Now the 15-year-old girl was developmentally disabled, but of course I'm not excusing

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this behavior, but the mother should have kept it better right on the two of them, you

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know, especially him being five and her being 15, you know.

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Definitely shouldn't have been up her bedroom alone, in my opinion.

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I mean, also at that age though, you don't think that a 15-year-old and a five-year-old

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are just- Yeah, that's true.

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You know what I mean?

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But I do see what you're saying though, it's like, I don't know.

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When John Wayne was seven years old, allegedly his father found out that him and another young

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boy were caught sexually fondling a young girl, and he was beaten by his father for

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it.

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When John Wayne was eight years old in 1950, a man in his mid-thirties began working on

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the home next door to them and became friends with John Stanley.

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After getting to know the family, the contractor would eventually take a liking to John Wayne

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and lure him into his truck with the promise of them going to get ice cream together.

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Allegedly, his mother knew that this was happening, but she was like, oh yeah, go ahead and go,

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like she trusted the guy.

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I don't know why.

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But she's down to protect her children.

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Once alone in the truck, the contractor would perform what Gacy later called, quote, wrestling

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moves and sexually abused him as well.

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He reportedly told John Wayne to quote, bend down and put my head under his leg, which

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he did for several minutes.

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This incident occurred at least two more times, and the contractor would quote, reward John

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Wayne with ice cream afterwards.

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Just so awful.

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That's disgusting.

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During one of these attacks, John Wayne got the courage to run away from the contractor

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and tell his father what happened and that he did not want to be alone with him again.

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John Stanley responded to this by approaching the contractor and threatening to call the

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police if he ever got near his child again.

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Down to protect the children.

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Not like I'm calling the police because you touched my child.

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It's just like, don't do that again and I won't call the police.

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They're just doing the Lord's work, y'all.

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I mean, come on.

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Throughout his childhood and into his teen years, John Wayne was always the odd one out

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of his peers.

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Due to a heart condition, he was told to avoid all sports growing up, and during the fourth

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grade he began to experience blackouts and was hospitalized due to it.

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Yeah.

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In 1957, he was also hospitalized for a burst appendix and later stated that during the

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ages of 14 to 18, he had spent almost a year in the hospital for various reasons and attributed

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the decline of his grades to missing so much school because of it.

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I'm not trying to say there's a link here, but I feel like we come across an unusual

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amount of cases where there's heart conditions.

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Yeah.

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Have you noticed that too?

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Well, it's hospitalization and then there's the blackouts.

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It's a big red flag for me because that's the same thing as seizures.

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That can hurt your brain development.

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Yeah.

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It was gasey.

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I think Andre Ciccattillo as well had some kind of a heart issue.

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Yeah.

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Robert Burdella had, like, had a big issue.

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And had a big issue.

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Like, I was just a weasel.

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John Wayne's father, however, did not believe that he was actually experiencing medical

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issues and instead was fishing for attention while in his hospital bed.

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Thank you.

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He's just fishing for attention.

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He's just fainting for attention.

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He's just blacking out on purpose.

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He's just, okay, I'm going to black out now.

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Yeah.

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So John Wayne was actually never officially diagnosed with anything medically concrete,

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but his mother's sisters and a few close friends never doubted his illness.

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During his teenage years, John Wayne's situation at home stayed the same with his abusive

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father and isolation.

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One of his high school friends recalled several instances where John Stanley ridiculed or

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beat John Wayne for seemingly no reason and without provocation.

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On one occasion in 1957, this friend witnessed John Wayne's father emerging drunk from the

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basement to begin belittling and then hitting his son for no apparent reason.

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John Wayne's mother attempted to intervene as her son simply, quote, put his hands up

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to defend himself.

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According to the friend, John Wayne never struck his father back during these altercations.

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That's so sad.

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Which is like, it is.

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Like, he just kind of stood there and took it almost, you know, didn't fight back.

249
00:11:45,180 --> 00:11:47,940
And then John Stanley still took advantage of him like that.

250
00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:48,940
What a piece of shit.

251
00:11:48,940 --> 00:11:49,940
Is this guy dead yet?

252
00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:50,940
Oh, John Stanley?

253
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:51,940
Yeah.

254
00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:52,940
Oh, I'm sure he is.

255
00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:54,940
Well, I'm sure he's dead now, but when does he die?

256
00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:57,940
Oh, he's still well alive in this shit.

257
00:11:57,940 --> 00:12:00,540
I thought we were going to get lucky.

258
00:12:00,540 --> 00:12:01,540
Right.

259
00:12:01,540 --> 00:12:05,260
It was also around this same time, so high school, that John Wayne's personal life began

260
00:12:05,260 --> 00:12:06,420
to change.

261
00:12:06,420 --> 00:12:09,780
It was at this point that he began to question his sexuality.

262
00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:13,660
And as he was starting to realize that he was, quote, not particularly attracted to

263
00:12:13,660 --> 00:12:19,100
girls and would sometimes have quotes, thoughts of embracing his friends.

264
00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:22,660
It was at this point in his life that he even considered entering the priesthood because

265
00:12:22,660 --> 00:12:25,180
he thought it would help alleviate these feelings.

266
00:12:25,180 --> 00:12:26,180
Wow.

267
00:12:26,180 --> 00:12:30,380
He ultimately did not, but he did accept his sexuality eventually, although he went through

268
00:12:30,380 --> 00:12:33,180
major emotional turmoil with these feelings for a while.

269
00:12:33,180 --> 00:12:36,780
Of course, with his dad being so like, you're going to grow up like this.

270
00:12:36,780 --> 00:12:39,300
And then he's probably like, oh shit, like he's right, you know?

271
00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:40,300
Shit, he's right.

272
00:12:40,300 --> 00:12:43,980
Like, I mean, that's got to be hard, especially in the late fifties.

273
00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:44,980
Right.

274
00:12:44,980 --> 00:12:47,900
And to be terrified of that, because that would apparently, that would seemingly be

275
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:49,460
his father's worst fear.

276
00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:51,340
Yeah, exactly.

277
00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:57,660
In 1960, at age 18, Gacy became heavily involved in politics, which we've also seen before

278
00:12:57,660 --> 00:13:00,140
with many, many serial killers.

279
00:13:00,140 --> 00:13:05,180
And eventually in 1970, he began working as an assistant precinct captain for a Democratic

280
00:13:05,180 --> 00:13:07,820
party candidate in his neighborhood.

281
00:13:07,820 --> 00:13:12,140
This led to more criticism from his father, who was a diehard Republican, and John Stanley

282
00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:17,260
used this knowledge to continue berating John Wayne and calling him a quote, patsy.

283
00:13:17,260 --> 00:13:18,260
A patsy.

284
00:13:18,260 --> 00:13:20,260
I think that's a funny word.

285
00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:21,260
A patsy.

286
00:13:21,260 --> 00:13:22,260
Like, okay, cool.

287
00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:27,220
I thought a patsy was like a driver.

288
00:13:27,220 --> 00:13:29,340
I think a patsy is like a pansy.

289
00:13:29,340 --> 00:13:31,540
I think it's like a pansy.

290
00:13:31,540 --> 00:13:35,700
A person who is easily taken advantage of, especially by being cheated or blamed for

291
00:13:35,700 --> 00:13:36,700
something.

292
00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:37,700
Oh, okay.

293
00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:41,140
John Wayne actually was very politically involved for a number of years, and at one

294
00:13:41,140 --> 00:13:46,660
point in the mid-1970s, due to his connections, he actually met First Lady Rosalind Carter

295
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:50,540
while President Carter was in office and took photos with her.

296
00:13:50,540 --> 00:13:55,020
The infamous photo can be found online, which Rosalind had actually signed and given to

297
00:13:55,020 --> 00:14:00,380
Gacy stating quote, to John Gacy, best wishes, Rosalind Carter.

298
00:14:00,380 --> 00:14:01,380
That's nuts.

299
00:14:01,380 --> 00:14:02,380
Right?

300
00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:03,380
I've seen it.

301
00:14:03,380 --> 00:14:04,380
It's wild.

302
00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:05,380
I've seen it.

303
00:14:05,380 --> 00:14:08,380
John Wayne was at the Democratic Party at this time that Gacy was involved in, and he

304
00:14:08,380 --> 00:14:12,220
even acted as a marshal in a Polish parade at one point.

305
00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:13,620
So we're going to back up to 1960.

306
00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:18,940
I just wanted to pepper that in there because that was when he got involved in politics.

307
00:14:18,940 --> 00:14:23,300
So back to 1960, the same year that John Wayne began his heavy political involvement,

308
00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:25,420
his father bought him a car.

309
00:14:25,420 --> 00:14:29,300
John Stanley actually kept the vehicle's title in his own name until John Wayne could

310
00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:30,940
finish paying for it.

311
00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:32,340
John Wayne.

312
00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:35,740
John Wayne was working at a fast food restaurant to keep up with the payments, but the monthly

313
00:14:35,740 --> 00:14:38,980
payment on the vehicle still took him several years to complete.

314
00:14:38,980 --> 00:14:42,940
And the whole time he was making these payments, John Stanley would frequently take the keys

315
00:14:42,940 --> 00:14:46,620
from him if he acted any way other than exactly how his father wanted.

316
00:14:46,620 --> 00:14:48,620
So he's just like using it.

317
00:14:48,620 --> 00:14:49,620
Yeah.

318
00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:51,100
It's like dangled a little above his head.

319
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:56,860
In April of 1962, John Wayne actually purchased a second set of keys after his father compensated

320
00:14:56,860 --> 00:14:59,340
the original set, seemingly for good.

321
00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:00,500
Oh no.

322
00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,340
In response to John Wayne getting a second set of keys.

323
00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:06,060
He got a third set of keys?

324
00:15:06,060 --> 00:15:07,060
No, actually.

325
00:15:07,060 --> 00:15:10,700
No, he's buying like extra sets of keys.

326
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:11,700
Oh yeah?

327
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:12,700
Well, just by the fourth.

328
00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:13,700
Yeah.

329
00:15:13,700 --> 00:15:14,700
And the fifth.

330
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:15,700
One more of the names.

331
00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:16,700
20 days later.

332
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:21,860
John Stanley actually removed the distributor cap out of the engine and kept the part for

333
00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:23,100
three days as punishment.

334
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:24,940
Well, your car can't start without that.

335
00:15:24,940 --> 00:15:25,940
Oh my.

336
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:26,940
It wasn't working.

337
00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:27,940
What is wrong with this guy?

338
00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:28,940
I don't know.

339
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:29,940
He's a maniac.

340
00:15:29,940 --> 00:15:34,500
So, Gacy later recalled that he felt quote, totally sick and quote, drained after this

341
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:35,500
incident.

342
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:40,300
He also later stated about this quote, I had to pay him $100 a month as part of the money

343
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:42,380
he put up so that I could get a car.

344
00:15:42,380 --> 00:15:45,180
And by March, I had fallen one payment behind.

345
00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:47,940
By April, he was threatening to take away the car.

346
00:15:47,940 --> 00:15:52,140
So on the sixth or ninth of April, I decided to run away.

347
00:15:52,140 --> 00:15:54,060
Now keep in mind, he's 20 years old at this point.

348
00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:55,060
He doesn't need to run away.

349
00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:56,060
No, he's in the top.

350
00:15:56,060 --> 00:16:02,100
But he was only one car payment behind or I guess reimbursing him.

351
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:03,100
Yeah.

352
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:07,460
Probably not even because the dad probably either paid it off or is already making the

353
00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:08,460
payment.

354
00:16:08,460 --> 00:16:09,460
Yeah.

355
00:16:09,460 --> 00:16:10,460
Just $100.

356
00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:11,460
Yeah.

357
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:12,460
I mean, it's 1950s, I get it.

358
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:15,060
Shit, if mom and dad took away my car after missing one payment, I would have not had

359
00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:16,060
a car.

360
00:16:16,060 --> 00:16:18,420
You would have just not got a car.

361
00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:19,420
Same.

362
00:16:19,420 --> 00:16:20,420
Thanks, mom.

363
00:16:20,420 --> 00:16:21,420
Thanks, dad.

364
00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:22,420
All right.

365
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:26,740
So just hours after John Stanley replaced the distributor cap, John Wayne left home

366
00:16:26,740 --> 00:16:28,500
and took off to Las Vegas, Nevada.

367
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:31,740
Oh, so he replaced it and then he took off in the car?

368
00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:34,460
So John Stanley was like, okay, I guess he had made the payment.

369
00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:37,180
So he was like, okay, now you get the distributor cap back.

370
00:16:37,180 --> 00:16:40,860
Just hours after he gave him the cap back, John Wayne was like, I'm the fuck out of here.

371
00:16:40,860 --> 00:16:42,060
And he took the car though.

372
00:16:42,060 --> 00:16:43,060
Yeah.

373
00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:44,060
Oh, okay.

374
00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:45,060
Badass.

375
00:16:45,060 --> 00:16:48,700
He found work in Las Vegas within the ambulance service and eventually was transferred to

376
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,380
work as an attendant at Palm Mortuary.

377
00:16:51,380 --> 00:16:52,460
Hmm.

378
00:16:52,460 --> 00:16:56,540
As a mortuary attendant, John Wayne actually spent his nights on a cot behind the embalming

379
00:16:56,540 --> 00:16:59,740
room for three months that he worked there because he couldn't afford rent.

380
00:16:59,740 --> 00:17:02,540
I bet it smelled so bad.

381
00:17:02,540 --> 00:17:06,100
Also during this time, he would frequently observe embalming sessions by the morticians,

382
00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:09,420
of course, and occasionally served as a pallbearer for funerals.

383
00:17:09,420 --> 00:17:11,500
I'm sorry, just the thought of embalming fluids.

384
00:17:11,500 --> 00:17:12,500
Oh, I know.

385
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:13,500
The smell alone is like-

386
00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:14,500
Like formaldehyde?

387
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:15,500
Yeah.

388
00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:16,500
This next part's kind of content warning.

389
00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:20,740
One night, Gacy found himself alone at the mortuary business and decided to do something

390
00:17:20,740 --> 00:17:23,180
unheard of up until this point in his life.

391
00:17:23,180 --> 00:17:28,060
Gacy snuck into the room that was holding a deceased teenage male in a coffin awaiting

392
00:17:28,060 --> 00:17:30,060
the upcoming funeral service.

393
00:17:30,060 --> 00:17:35,300
He climbed into the coffin with the young boy and embraced and caressed the body for

394
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:41,460
a few moments until he reportedly experienced a sense of shock and climbed back out collecting

395
00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:42,460
himself.

396
00:17:42,460 --> 00:17:43,460
Okay, Dahmer.

397
00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:44,460
Yeah.

398
00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:49,660
Like, isn't that- I didn't even know he did that.

399
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:53,660
He apparently was so uneasy about his own actions that he immediately called his mother

400
00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:57,660
to ask if she thought John Stanley would allow him to move back in with them.

401
00:17:57,660 --> 00:18:01,300
He's like, I've moved out of the house, I'm going crazy now because I'm caressing

402
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:03,100
dead- dead boys?

403
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:04,100
Yeah.

404
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:05,100
Ooh.

405
00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:08,700
His father agreed and John Wayne left Las Vegas and drove back to Chicago within a few

406
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:10,500
hours of this incident.

407
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:14,620
Once returning home, Gacy decided that he wanted to further his education and he enrolled

408
00:18:14,620 --> 00:18:19,140
at Northwestern Business College despite having failed out of high school previously.

409
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:22,820
This time around, he was much more studious and he ended up getting his bachelor's degree

410
00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:28,500
in 1963 and shortly afterward, he took a management trainee position with the Nunn-Bush

411
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:30,380
Shoe Company.

412
00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:35,500
A year later in 1964, the same shoe company transferred Gacy to Springfield, Illinois,

413
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:39,660
where he was given the promotion to manager of his department.

414
00:18:39,660 --> 00:18:43,140
It was while working at this new position in Springfield that he had met a woman named

415
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:47,580
Marilyn Myers, a beautiful brunette who caught his eye and worked in the same department

416
00:18:47,580 --> 00:18:49,300
store as him.

417
00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:51,540
At this point, Gacy was 22 years old.

418
00:18:51,540 --> 00:18:55,980
I couldn't find out how old Marilyn was, but she was seemingly around the same age.

419
00:18:55,980 --> 00:19:00,220
The two became friendly and began to date and eventually ended up marrying only nine

420
00:19:00,220 --> 00:19:03,420
months after becoming serious.

421
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:05,220
That's also a theme that we see, right?

422
00:19:05,220 --> 00:19:06,220
Yeah, it's a very good thing.

423
00:19:06,220 --> 00:19:09,580
Getting into a relationship, especially guys that are on the questionable end of their

424
00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:11,660
sexuality that are like, okay, I have to marry a woman.

425
00:19:11,660 --> 00:19:14,420
It's a beard, totally.

426
00:19:14,420 --> 00:19:19,740
Gacy then got back into politics heavily and joined a branch of the United States Junior

427
00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:23,900
Council by the name of the Waterloo JCs.

428
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:28,060
The purpose of this organization was to offer the best opportunities for business development

429
00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:33,060
and career advancement for both men and women between 21 to 40 years of age.

430
00:19:33,060 --> 00:19:37,820
However, it came out later that this particular organization was not as proper as they were

431
00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:40,060
making themselves out to be.

432
00:19:40,060 --> 00:19:45,460
He was known in the group as working tirelessly for them and was actually named Key Man at

433
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:47,900
one point in his involvement.

434
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:53,180
During his time with the JCs, John Wayne also had his second homosexual experience, the

435
00:19:53,180 --> 00:19:54,180
first one being at the orchard.

436
00:19:54,180 --> 00:19:57,860
Laying down with a deceased boy, okay.

437
00:19:57,860 --> 00:20:01,820
One of his colleagues in the JCs provided multiple drinks for the two of them, and once

438
00:20:01,820 --> 00:20:06,300
Gacy was very intoxicated, the friend offered for him to just crash on his couch to avoid

439
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:07,300
a driving home.

440
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:08,300
Sure.

441
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:09,300
Avoid a driving home.

442
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:11,260
Avoid big hubs.

443
00:20:11,260 --> 00:20:16,300
Gacy agreed, and allegedly the colleague performed oral sex on him while he was very drunk.

444
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:20,740
Gacy tried to either forget or ignore what happened, and he eventually rose to the position

445
00:20:20,740 --> 00:20:24,820
of vice president of the Waterloo JCs in 1965.

446
00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:26,340
That's another theme that we see, right?

447
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:28,300
Pretty hardworking individuals for the most part.

448
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:30,260
Positions of power are really wanted, yeah.

449
00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:32,060
Like Kristen Gilbert.

450
00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:33,060
Yeah.

451
00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:37,140
Later that year, he was named the third of most outstanding member of the JCs in the

452
00:20:37,140 --> 00:20:41,380
state of Illinois, which is like a high honor, but I bet he was pissed that he wasn't the

453
00:20:41,380 --> 00:20:42,380
first.

454
00:20:42,380 --> 00:20:43,900
He was like the fifth.

455
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:44,900
Must be the first.

456
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:45,900
Yeah.

457
00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,220
So like I said, John Wayne and Marilyn began to date, and within nine months of meeting,

458
00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:53,820
they tied the knot, and together decided to move to Waterloo, Illinois after Marilyn's

459
00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:59,620
father offered Gacy a job and gave the two of them the family home for themselves.

460
00:20:59,620 --> 00:21:00,620
Wow.

461
00:21:00,620 --> 00:21:02,780
He had a lot of money.

462
00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:06,480
After moving into Marilyn's parents' old home in Waterloo, Gacy got lucky with the

463
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:12,500
job being handed to him by Marilyn's father, which was managing three different KFC locations

464
00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:14,460
that Mr. Meyers owned.

465
00:21:14,460 --> 00:21:18,420
You know what's so funny is that as you're describing certain things that he's done,

466
00:21:18,420 --> 00:21:24,300
I imagine John Wayne Gacy and these like outfits.

467
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:28,060
And each one is like, I do remember seeing a photo of that.

468
00:21:28,060 --> 00:21:29,740
I do remember seeing a photo of that.

469
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:31,620
I do remember seeing, you know what I mean?

470
00:21:31,620 --> 00:21:34,660
You know what, you reminded me just now when he said that, reminded me of the chicken man

471
00:21:34,660 --> 00:21:36,660
from Toy Story 2.

472
00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:37,660
That's probably what he looked like.

473
00:21:37,660 --> 00:21:38,660
The chicken man, he did.

474
00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:41,020
He did look like that, minus the glasses.

475
00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:44,900
Now, of course, it's become clear that Marilyn's family came from money, especially with her

476
00:21:44,900 --> 00:21:48,320
father being able to purchase three KFC franchises.

477
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:53,420
But on top of this, Gacy was getting paid an enormous amount by her father to manage

478
00:21:53,420 --> 00:21:54,420
them.

479
00:21:54,420 --> 00:22:02,060
He was making $15,000 a year, and don't worry, I did the conversion rate, $134, $550

480
00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:03,060
a year today.

481
00:22:03,060 --> 00:22:04,060
Wow.

482
00:22:04,060 --> 00:22:05,060
That's pretty good money.

483
00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:07,060
Plus, a share of the restaurant's profits.

484
00:22:07,060 --> 00:22:08,060
That's a lot of money.

485
00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:12,340
Could you imagine being like, yeah, I make $15,000 a year, and people will be like, holy

486
00:22:12,340 --> 00:22:13,340
shit.

487
00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:14,340
Yeah, exactly.

488
00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:15,340
I'd be like...

489
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:16,340
$15,000.

490
00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:20,180
On top of this, Gacy did not have any prior experience with management of restaurants

491
00:22:20,180 --> 00:22:21,980
or really management at all.

492
00:22:21,980 --> 00:22:24,460
So the only thing we're close to is...

493
00:22:24,460 --> 00:22:26,460
That's so true.

494
00:22:26,460 --> 00:22:27,460
That's so true.

495
00:22:27,460 --> 00:22:29,580
It's just like, here are these fucking restaurants.

496
00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:30,580
It's great.

497
00:22:30,580 --> 00:22:31,580
Do what you will.

498
00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:33,580
I don't know what the fuck to do with restaurants.

499
00:22:33,580 --> 00:22:38,180
So, the only thing required of him to be given this job was a completion of a management

500
00:22:38,180 --> 00:22:39,180
course.

501
00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:41,180
And he was like, all right, here you go.

502
00:22:41,180 --> 00:22:42,180
Take it around.

503
00:22:42,180 --> 00:22:43,180
Is it a front?

504
00:22:43,180 --> 00:22:44,180
No.

505
00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:45,180
It's not like a...

506
00:22:45,180 --> 00:22:48,180
He was just rich, and I guess the dad really liked him, and he was like, here you go.

507
00:22:48,180 --> 00:22:50,300
And he needed the help, so he's like, here you go.

508
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:51,300
Help with what though?

509
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:55,220
Because it seems like the father just bought him KFC, or did he own the multiple, and he

510
00:22:55,220 --> 00:22:57,380
let Gacy manage three of them.

511
00:22:57,380 --> 00:22:58,380
I see.

512
00:22:58,380 --> 00:22:59,380
Okay.

513
00:22:59,380 --> 00:23:00,380
I was like, what the fuck?

514
00:23:00,380 --> 00:23:04,300
So, he's like, computer sciences or computer networking, and then he's just like, here's

515
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:08,260
the three KFC restaurants, and Gacy's like, great, thanks.

516
00:23:08,260 --> 00:23:12,780
On top of the things that were required of Gacy, he also decided to take on some extra,

517
00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:18,540
you know, curricular stuff of his own, and he opened up a sort of club in like the family's

518
00:23:18,540 --> 00:23:23,100
home's basement where all of his employees could hang out while they were at work.

519
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:24,100
What?

520
00:23:24,100 --> 00:23:27,380
They would like play pool and drink and just like be dumb.

521
00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:29,180
But he called it something?

522
00:23:29,180 --> 00:23:32,220
No, but he's also managing a KFC.

523
00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:33,700
Who works at KFCs?

524
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:34,700
Teenagers.

525
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:36,260
Teenagers, yeah.

526
00:23:36,260 --> 00:23:37,260
Little kids.

527
00:23:37,260 --> 00:23:40,700
He quickly became the cool manager, but also super creepy.

528
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:44,060
He was hanging out with a bunch of teenagers like quite often.

529
00:23:44,060 --> 00:23:45,460
I think I've been in that situation before.

530
00:23:45,460 --> 00:23:48,860
I'm sure you have too, where you've worked at a place and you're like, well, so-and-so

531
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:51,300
was kind of creepy, but like, he's gonna buy us all beer.

532
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:52,300
Oh yeah.

533
00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:53,300
You know?

534
00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:54,300
For sure.

535
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:55,300
Which like, could think of our life.

536
00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:56,300
Oh, for sure.

537
00:23:56,300 --> 00:24:02,940
I was like, who is that like older person, like 45, 50, and they're like the only one

538
00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:06,540
in the room, and they're the ones that are supplying the booze and the cigarettes and

539
00:24:06,540 --> 00:24:07,540
the weed.

540
00:24:07,540 --> 00:24:08,540
You don't think it's weird when you were like-

541
00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:09,540
I think it's weird.

542
00:24:09,540 --> 00:24:12,900
I'm like, what is it about you that you don't have friends you're on age?

543
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:13,900
Yeah, that's true.

544
00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:14,900
You know?

545
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:15,900
It's weird.

546
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:20,220
Among the employees frequenting the basement club were teens of both sexes, but Gacy was

547
00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:23,980
known as only conversing with the young men when these gatherings happened.

548
00:24:23,980 --> 00:24:24,980
Sure.

549
00:24:24,980 --> 00:24:25,980
Of course.

550
00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:31,500
Also adding to his laundry list of activities, Gacy joined the Waterloo Jaysies chapter, so

551
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,860
he just- it's the same club, but he's in a different city, right?

552
00:24:33,860 --> 00:24:37,060
So similar to what he was doing back in Chicago.

553
00:24:37,060 --> 00:24:41,740
Although he was already working 12 to 14 hours at KFC Daily and frequently hosting these

554
00:24:41,740 --> 00:24:47,740
ragers in his basement, he decided to devote extended hours to the Jaysies as well.

555
00:24:47,740 --> 00:24:53,180
At meetings, Gacy often provided fried chicken from his local restaurant and even insisted

556
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:57,700
on being called the Colonel.

557
00:24:57,700 --> 00:24:58,700
Shut up.

558
00:24:58,700 --> 00:24:59,700
Shut up.

559
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:00,700
Oh, God.

560
00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:05,100
Just call me the Colonel.

561
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:06,660
He was like, you need to call me the Colonel.

562
00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:07,660
Like, that's what I'm talking about.

563
00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:08,660
You need to call me the Colonel.

564
00:25:08,660 --> 00:25:09,660
Sheesh.

565
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:14,180
Hey, guys, we're going over to the Colonel's house.

566
00:25:14,180 --> 00:25:17,860
Everyone, Colonel's house after work.

567
00:25:17,860 --> 00:25:19,860
The beer is on Colonel.

568
00:25:19,860 --> 00:25:23,660
Who's that creepy guy in the corner?

569
00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:24,660
Oh, you mean the Colonel?

570
00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:26,380
Oh, that's the Colonel.

571
00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:30,340
God, what an embarrassment.

572
00:25:30,340 --> 00:25:35,140
Also going on in this Waterloo chapter of the Jaysies, Gacy and other men engaging in

573
00:25:35,140 --> 00:25:38,540
wife-swapping, prostitution, pornography, and drug use-

574
00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:39,540
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

575
00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:40,540
...escalates quickly.

576
00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:41,540
Whoa, where am I?

577
00:25:41,540 --> 00:25:42,540
Did I zone out for 20 minutes?

578
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:43,540
What happened?

579
00:25:43,540 --> 00:25:44,540
Yeah.

580
00:25:44,540 --> 00:25:45,540
What?

581
00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:48,540
It just like came out of nowhere, right?

582
00:25:48,540 --> 00:25:50,540
Around...

583
00:25:50,540 --> 00:25:52,540
Oh, that's...

584
00:25:52,540 --> 00:25:53,540
I know.

585
00:25:53,540 --> 00:25:55,540
I mean, it had to happen at some point.

586
00:25:55,540 --> 00:25:56,540
Sure.

587
00:25:56,540 --> 00:26:00,100
Around the same time all of this was going on, Marilyn found herself pregnant.

588
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:05,780
And in February of 1966, she gave birth to her and John Wayne's first child, Michael

589
00:26:05,780 --> 00:26:06,780
Gacy.

590
00:26:06,780 --> 00:26:08,620
So he had to move the ragers to another location?

591
00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:09,620
Oh, no.

592
00:26:09,620 --> 00:26:10,620
Of course not.

593
00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:11,620
Was this like a five-story house?

594
00:26:11,620 --> 00:26:12,620
I don't know, actually.

595
00:26:12,620 --> 00:26:13,700
I didn't look...

596
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:18,980
The family was seemingly perfect and happy, and John Wayne continued his antics in the

597
00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:20,620
background of everything.

598
00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:23,020
Did she participate in the wife-swapping?

599
00:26:23,020 --> 00:26:26,620
That was a good question, because I didn't think that she did, but it comes out later

600
00:26:26,620 --> 00:26:27,620
that she might have.

601
00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:28,620
Oh, no.

602
00:26:28,620 --> 00:26:30,620
I don't want to say yes or no.

603
00:26:30,620 --> 00:26:31,620
Okay.

604
00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:32,620
I definitely don't want to put a cloud over her head.

605
00:26:32,620 --> 00:26:33,620
I'm not...

606
00:26:33,620 --> 00:26:34,620
I cannot confirm nor do I.

607
00:26:34,620 --> 00:26:35,620
Yeah.

608
00:26:35,620 --> 00:26:37,180
I mean, technically that's their own personal business.

609
00:26:37,180 --> 00:26:38,180
Yeah, of course.

610
00:26:38,180 --> 00:26:39,180
But...

611
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:40,180
Yeah.

612
00:26:40,180 --> 00:26:44,620
So just for the sake of the continuity, I just wanted to ask that question.

613
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:45,620
Yeah.

614
00:26:45,620 --> 00:26:50,420
So this went on for about another year, until Marilyn became pregnant once again and had

615
00:26:50,420 --> 00:26:57,180
her and John's second child in March of 1967, a girl named Christine Gacy.

616
00:26:57,180 --> 00:27:02,980
As far as the Jaysies go, Gacy was considered ambitious and a braggart, but other than that,

617
00:27:02,980 --> 00:27:08,460
the Jaysies actually held him in high regard for his fundraising work, and in 1967 he was

618
00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:12,420
named Outstanding Vice President of the Waterloo Jaysies.

619
00:27:12,420 --> 00:27:13,420
Wow.

620
00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:17,740
The same year, he was also given a place and served on the board of directors.

621
00:27:17,740 --> 00:27:19,500
Yeah.

622
00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,420
So they seemed to have everything they could want, of course, money, you know, a boy and

623
00:27:22,420 --> 00:27:24,940
a girl, perfect little family, a beautiful home.

624
00:27:24,940 --> 00:27:29,620
However, Gacy was not fully satisfied with his life as he was continuing to struggle

625
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:33,820
with his sexual identity and was constantly having sexual feelings towards these young

626
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:36,420
men that he was spending so much time with.

627
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:40,700
On top of all of the men in the Jaysies being close to Gacy, many of these young men had

628
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:45,740
teenage sons that they would also introduce to the lifestyle, so Gacy was frequently engaging

629
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:48,420
in conversations with them as well.

630
00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:49,420
Hmm.

631
00:27:49,420 --> 00:27:54,900
Now, in August of 1967, so just a few months after his daughter was born, Gacy lured a Jaysies

632
00:27:54,900 --> 00:28:00,580
15-year-old son by the name of Donald Voorhees to his home upon the premise of showing him

633
00:28:00,580 --> 00:28:04,780
heterosexual stag films that they regularly played at these events.

634
00:28:04,780 --> 00:28:09,980
At first, at his home, just two straight dudes in a basement watching some good old-fashioned

635
00:28:09,980 --> 00:28:10,980
hetero porn.

636
00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:11,980
Yeah, exactly.

637
00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:17,300
Now, once at his home, Gacy provided a copious amount of alcohol to Donald, allowing him

638
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:22,860
to watch the movie, and then persuaded him in mutual oral sex, stating, quote, you have

639
00:28:22,860 --> 00:28:26,500
to have sex with a man before you start having sex with women.

640
00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:28,500
That's like a read-a-passage.

641
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:29,500
Who made that rule?

642
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:30,500
Who made that?

643
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:31,500
Gacy.

644
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:33,500
I want that printed on a T-shirt.

645
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:35,500
Gacy.

646
00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,500
J-W-G.

647
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,500
So no one knows who's who.

648
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:39,500
Exactly.

649
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:44,020
Over the following months, Gacy did the same thing numerous times with multiple different

650
00:28:44,020 --> 00:28:47,980
teens, including one that he persuaded to have sex with his own wife, Marilyn.

651
00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:49,820
So maybe she was involved in it.

652
00:28:49,820 --> 00:28:51,460
Maybe she was.

653
00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:55,660
After the boy engaged in sexual activity with her, Gacy blackmailed him, threatening

654
00:28:55,660 --> 00:28:59,980
to get the boy in trouble for what he had done unless he engaged in similar acts with

655
00:28:59,980 --> 00:29:00,980
Gacy himself.

656
00:29:00,980 --> 00:29:01,980
What?

657
00:29:01,980 --> 00:29:04,340
Yeah, that's gross, right?

658
00:29:04,340 --> 00:29:05,340
Wow.

659
00:29:05,340 --> 00:29:09,900
During the duration of these assaults, Gacy allegedly told the boys that he was commissioned

660
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:15,380
to conduct homosexual experiments in the interest of science, and he gave each boy

661
00:29:15,380 --> 00:29:17,780
$50 for their cooperation.

662
00:29:17,780 --> 00:29:19,180
It's for science.

663
00:29:19,180 --> 00:29:21,820
Yeah, they're like, oh, okay.

664
00:29:21,820 --> 00:29:26,380
The following March in 1968, the first of these victims, remember Donald Voorhees we

665
00:29:26,380 --> 00:29:31,860
just talked about, was 15, by the way, reported this to his father that Gacy had sexually

666
00:29:31,860 --> 00:29:33,340
assaulted him.

667
00:29:33,340 --> 00:29:37,580
The boy's father immediately called police, who then arrested Gacy and subsequently charged

668
00:29:37,580 --> 00:29:42,860
him with performing oral sodomy on Voorhees, as well as the attempted assault of 16-year-old

669
00:29:42,860 --> 00:29:44,900
Edward Lynch, another boy.

670
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:48,980
Gacy denied the charges and demanded to take a polygraph to prove his innocence.

671
00:29:48,980 --> 00:29:49,980
Dumbass.

672
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:50,980
Like, dummy.

673
00:29:50,980 --> 00:29:51,980
He knows he did it.

674
00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:52,980
Polygraph me.

675
00:29:52,980 --> 00:29:53,980
What do people do that?

676
00:29:53,980 --> 00:29:57,380
Especially all the time on, like, I don't know, like, Mari or whatever.

677
00:29:57,380 --> 00:29:59,060
It's like, you know you're gonna get caught.

678
00:29:59,060 --> 00:30:01,220
Well, they're so freaking narcissistic.

679
00:30:01,220 --> 00:30:02,700
They think they can fool anyone.

680
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:04,740
So, of course, they can pass a polygraph test.

681
00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:06,420
I'm no one's better than me, right?

682
00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:08,300
It's just a dumb machine.

683
00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:09,300
Exactly.

684
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:14,140
So, I'm sure it's obvious the results indicated that Gacy was in fact nervous when he denied

685
00:30:14,140 --> 00:30:19,100
any wrongdoing as it pertained to these charges and assaults of both young men.

686
00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:23,420
Earlier in the last year, Voorhees Sr. had allegedly opposed the nomination of Gacy for

687
00:30:23,420 --> 00:30:26,020
the president position of the JCs.

688
00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:31,540
So Gacy used this info to publicly announce his innocence, stating that the accusation

689
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:33,420
was politically motivated.

690
00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:34,420
Heard.

691
00:30:34,420 --> 00:30:35,420
So stupid.

692
00:30:35,420 --> 00:30:36,420
I could see that, though.

693
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:37,420
That's kind of a little...

694
00:30:37,420 --> 00:30:38,420
Yeah, it is.

695
00:30:38,420 --> 00:30:41,780
You know, he's just saying that because he doesn't like me, just in general.

696
00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:46,460
In Gacy's favor, many of the other JCs stood behind the idea that his story was credible

697
00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:48,140
and that he was innocent.

698
00:30:48,140 --> 00:30:49,140
Wow.

699
00:30:49,140 --> 00:30:53,180
They rallied to his support, stating that he would not be capable of the crimes he was

700
00:30:53,180 --> 00:30:54,660
charged with.

701
00:30:54,660 --> 00:30:56,180
However...

702
00:30:56,180 --> 00:30:57,660
Never.

703
00:30:57,660 --> 00:31:02,860
Even with this background support, on May 10th, 1968, John Wayne Gacy was indicted on

704
00:31:02,860 --> 00:31:06,740
the sodomy charge and awaited trial for these charges on the streets.

705
00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:07,740
Wow.

706
00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:08,740
Okay.

707
00:31:08,740 --> 00:31:10,220
On August 30th, 1968...

708
00:31:10,220 --> 00:31:11,460
So career over now.

709
00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:12,460
Oh no, he's caught.

710
00:31:12,460 --> 00:31:13,460
Like, that's it.

711
00:31:13,460 --> 00:31:14,460
Yeah, he's caught.

712
00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:17,660
I don't have 30 more pages of research.

713
00:31:17,660 --> 00:31:23,780
On August 30th, 1968, Gacy persuaded an 18-year-old employee by the name of Russell Schroeder

714
00:31:23,780 --> 00:31:28,660
to physically assault Voorhees in an effort to discourage the boy from testifying against

715
00:31:28,660 --> 00:31:29,660
him.

716
00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:30,660
Wait, what?

717
00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:35,220
He hired another boy to assault the victim so that he couldn't testify against him when

718
00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:37,220
he were to go to trial, like later.

719
00:31:37,220 --> 00:31:39,020
Oh my god.

720
00:31:39,020 --> 00:31:42,940
Gacy promised Russell $300 in exchange for this act.

721
00:31:42,940 --> 00:31:47,860
Russell agreed, and in early September, he lured Voorhees to an isolated county park,

722
00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:51,740
sprayed mace in his eyes, and then began beating him ruthlessly.

723
00:31:51,740 --> 00:31:53,500
Oh my god.

724
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:56,780
Gacy's managed to escape and reported the assault to police.

725
00:31:56,780 --> 00:31:57,900
Bet us.

726
00:31:57,900 --> 00:32:00,860
Being able to actually identify Russell as his attacker.

727
00:32:00,860 --> 00:32:01,940
Hell yeah.

728
00:32:01,940 --> 00:32:03,340
Russell was arrested the next day.

729
00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:07,940
Of course, he initially denied any involvement, but quickly changed his statement and confessed

730
00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:12,580
to his crime, indicating he had done so at Gacy's request.

731
00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:17,500
Police arrest Gacy yet again, and laid an additional charge of hiring Russell to assault

732
00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,340
and intimidate Voorhees against him.

733
00:32:19,340 --> 00:32:20,340
A scandal.

734
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:23,260
So why was he fucking out while he was awaiting trial and he did this?

735
00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:25,820
Well, because it was only his first offense.

736
00:32:25,820 --> 00:32:28,820
Yeah, or sometimes you pay your bond or whatever you get out.

737
00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:29,820
Yeah, that's true.

738
00:32:29,820 --> 00:32:30,820
He did have money.

739
00:32:30,820 --> 00:32:31,820
That's true.

740
00:32:31,820 --> 00:32:36,380
On September 12, 1968, Gacy was court ordered to undergo a psychiatric evaluation at the

741
00:32:36,380 --> 00:32:39,300
psychiatric hospital of the University of Iowa.

742
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:42,380
Is that where that dummy was like, oh no, definitely not.

743
00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:45,340
He couldn't possibly sexually assault people because he was never sexually assaulted when

744
00:32:45,340 --> 00:32:46,340
he was a kid.

745
00:32:46,340 --> 00:32:47,340
Yeah, that was way later on.

746
00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:48,340
Oh, okay.

747
00:32:48,340 --> 00:32:49,340
Don't worry.

748
00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:51,060
I was like, is this the idiot?

749
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:56,740
Two doctors examined him over a period of 17 days and concluded that he had antisocial

750
00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:57,740
personality disorder.

751
00:32:57,740 --> 00:33:00,100
There's the diagnosis.

752
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:04,500
On top of this diagnosis, they also determined that he would be unlikely to benefit from

753
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:09,780
any therapy or medical treatment and that his behavior pattern was likely to bring him

754
00:33:09,780 --> 00:33:12,860
into repeated conflict with society.

755
00:33:12,860 --> 00:33:13,860
Barry the boy.

756
00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:14,860
Barry the boy.

757
00:33:14,860 --> 00:33:16,020
Just Barry and so.

758
00:33:16,020 --> 00:33:17,540
Why isn't the episode done?

759
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:18,540
Bye-bye.

760
00:33:18,540 --> 00:33:19,540
Then he's done, right?

761
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:20,540
Then he's done.

762
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:21,540
He's done it.

763
00:33:21,540 --> 00:33:22,540
He's done it.

764
00:33:22,540 --> 00:33:25,740
We're getting out because he did these heinous crimes and in fact hired somebody to beat

765
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:28,820
the shit out of a victim of his already.

766
00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:32,180
And clearly cannot be...

767
00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:34,060
He's clearly unfit for society.

768
00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:35,060
Yeah.

769
00:33:35,060 --> 00:33:36,060
He can't be rehabilitated.

770
00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:37,060
Clearly.

771
00:33:37,060 --> 00:33:38,060
Just put him away.

772
00:33:38,060 --> 00:33:39,060
Bye.

773
00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:40,060
Bye.

774
00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:41,060
That's it.

775
00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:42,060
Okay.

776
00:33:42,060 --> 00:33:43,060
Bye.

777
00:33:43,060 --> 00:33:44,060
Have a great day.

778
00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:45,060
Love you, bye.

779
00:33:45,060 --> 00:33:46,060
No.

780
00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:47,060
In fact, all I wanted to say is like, is this where he becomes the clown?

781
00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:48,060
Oh my God.

782
00:33:48,060 --> 00:33:49,060
Is this the part where he becomes the clown?

783
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:50,060
Is this the part where he becomes the clown?

784
00:33:50,060 --> 00:33:51,580
Is this the part where he becomes the clown?

785
00:33:51,580 --> 00:33:52,580
He's just clowning around.

786
00:33:52,580 --> 00:33:54,500
He's just clowning around.

787
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:59,780
During this evaluation, the doctors also concluded that he was indeed mentally competent to withstand

788
00:33:59,780 --> 00:34:00,780
trial.

789
00:34:00,780 --> 00:34:01,780
Boom.

790
00:34:01,780 --> 00:34:03,180
Okay, let's remember that for the future, okay?

791
00:34:03,180 --> 00:34:04,180
Yes.

792
00:34:04,180 --> 00:34:05,180
We talked to him for 17 days.

793
00:34:05,180 --> 00:34:06,620
He is not insane.

794
00:34:06,620 --> 00:34:12,660
On November 7th, 1968, Gacy pleaded guilty to one count of sodomy in relation to Voorhees,

795
00:34:12,660 --> 00:34:16,820
but not guilty to the charges related to his other assault victims.

796
00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:20,340
During the trial, Gacy was allowed to speak on his behalf.

797
00:34:20,340 --> 00:34:21,780
Can't wait to hear what he has to say.

798
00:34:21,780 --> 00:34:27,180
And he claimed that Voorhees had offered himself to Gacy and he had acted so out of curiosity.

799
00:34:27,180 --> 00:34:28,180
He's 15.

800
00:34:28,180 --> 00:34:29,180
Yeah.

801
00:34:29,180 --> 00:34:30,180
He can't consent.

802
00:34:30,180 --> 00:34:31,180
He can't consent.

803
00:34:31,180 --> 00:34:32,180
So what the fuck?

804
00:34:32,180 --> 00:34:33,900
The jury did not believe the story Gacy told.

805
00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:34,900
Fair.

806
00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:40,300
And he was convicted of sodomy on December 3rd, 1968 and sentenced to 10 years in prison,

807
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:43,140
which would be served at the Anamosa State Penitentiary.

808
00:34:43,140 --> 00:34:44,140
10 years?

809
00:34:44,140 --> 00:34:46,660
How much did he serve?

810
00:34:46,660 --> 00:34:48,820
I'll tell you.

811
00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:52,260
The next day, Gacy walks out of the jail.

812
00:34:52,260 --> 00:34:53,260
Skips along.

813
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:54,260
Skips along.

814
00:34:54,260 --> 00:35:00,300
The same day he was sentenced, his wife Marilyn petitioned for divorce, requesting that she

815
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:05,940
be awarded the family home and property, sole custody of their two children and alimony.

816
00:35:05,940 --> 00:35:06,940
Good.

817
00:35:06,940 --> 00:35:12,020
The court ruled in her favor and the divorce was finalized on September 18th, 1969.

818
00:35:12,020 --> 00:35:15,420
After this was finalized, Gacy never saw Marilyn or his children again.

819
00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:16,420
You go girl.

820
00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:22,820
During his incarceration, Gacy quickly acquired a reputation as a model prisoner.

821
00:35:22,820 --> 00:35:27,300
Within months of his arrival, he had risen to head cook in the kitchen and also joined-

822
00:35:27,300 --> 00:35:30,180
Stop giving this guy like head of everything.

823
00:35:30,180 --> 00:35:33,940
Also joined the JC chapter in prison.

824
00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:41,220
After he joined, he quickly became a leader and increased the chapter in size from 50 inmates

825
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:46,140
to 650 inmates in just 18 months.

826
00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:47,620
This guy, I-

827
00:35:47,620 --> 00:35:49,340
He thinks he's God.

828
00:35:49,340 --> 00:35:51,660
Like he's the complex.

829
00:35:51,660 --> 00:35:55,580
You know he thinks he's like macho, like I'm the best person in the world.

830
00:35:55,580 --> 00:35:58,140
I have powers.

831
00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:03,260
Gacy also became very friendly with the guards and was able to secure an increase in the

832
00:36:03,260 --> 00:36:09,060
inmates' daily pay in the prison mess hall and also supervised several projects to improve

833
00:36:09,060 --> 00:36:10,700
conditions for inmates.

834
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:12,900
But like that's not the guy's problem.

835
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:15,140
The guy's problem is that he assaults young men.

836
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:17,860
That's his problem.

837
00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:20,620
His problem isn't that he's participating in society.

838
00:36:20,620 --> 00:36:21,620
Clearly he does that.

839
00:36:21,620 --> 00:36:22,620
Yeah.

840
00:36:22,620 --> 00:36:24,100
He's trying to say like, oh look how great I'll be if I get out.

841
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:25,100
Exactly.

842
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:26,100
Like what I'll do for people.

843
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:28,100
But that people think that that equates to rehabilitation.

844
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:29,100
Yeah, exactly.

845
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:30,100
You know.

846
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:35,700
By the summer of 1969, Gacy had even overseen the installation of a mini golf course in

847
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:37,500
the prison wreck yard.

848
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:40,300
I couldn't even say that.

849
00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:42,300
Is this a Tim Burton movie?

850
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:43,300
This is a movie.

851
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:45,500
This is a Tim Burton movie.

852
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:49,260
In June of 1969, Gacy was denied parole.

853
00:36:49,260 --> 00:36:53,660
After his parole was denied, he began to prepare for the next one by completing numerous high

854
00:36:53,660 --> 00:36:56,820
school courses, 16 to be exact.

855
00:36:56,820 --> 00:37:01,460
He obtained his diploma in November of 1969 and his next parole hearing was scheduled

856
00:37:01,460 --> 00:37:03,100
for May of 1970.

857
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:04,900
I thought he already graduated.

858
00:37:04,900 --> 00:37:07,620
He had dropped out of high school and then he went to college.

859
00:37:07,620 --> 00:37:09,500
But he never had a GED or a diploma.

860
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:10,500
Oh.

861
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:12,500
I think he might have had a GED but he didn't have a diploma.

862
00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:14,420
So he went back to complete.

863
00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:15,420
Okay.

864
00:37:15,420 --> 00:37:22,420
On Christmas Day, 1969, Gacy's father died from cirrhosis of the liver and when Gacy

865
00:37:22,420 --> 00:37:26,020
was informed of this, he collapsed to the floor sobbing.

866
00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:27,020
Wow.

867
00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:28,020
I'm surprised.

868
00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:30,220
Yeah, same.

869
00:37:30,220 --> 00:37:35,060
He requested to have supervised, compassionate release following this but his request was

870
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:36,060
denied.

871
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:37,860
So your father was a piece of shit?

872
00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:38,860
No you cannot go so early.

873
00:37:38,860 --> 00:37:39,860
Yeah.

874
00:37:39,860 --> 00:37:40,860
What the hell?

875
00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:43,060
What the hell is he anyway?

876
00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:44,060
So awful.

877
00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:46,060
Oh dad, where's the body?

878
00:37:46,060 --> 00:37:47,060
Where's the body?

879
00:37:47,060 --> 00:37:48,060
Where's the body?

880
00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:55,180
Gacy eventually had his next parole hearing in June of 1970 after the date was pushed

881
00:37:55,180 --> 00:37:56,180
back.

882
00:37:56,180 --> 00:38:01,460
It seems as though his nice guy act and high school courses paid off and Gacy was granted

883
00:38:01,460 --> 00:38:09,500
12 months probation on June 18th, 1970 only having served 18 months of his 10 year sentence.

884
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:13,100
Oh my god, that's why.

885
00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:19,140
When he was, was it supposed to be at least 10 years served or was it like a 10 year minimum?

886
00:38:19,140 --> 00:38:25,380
Maximum, 10 year total was what he was sentenced to and he got out in 18 months.

887
00:38:25,380 --> 00:38:26,540
Months.

888
00:38:26,540 --> 00:38:27,700
Months.

889
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:31,940
Conditions of his probation included that Gacy relocated to Chicago to live with his mother

890
00:38:31,940 --> 00:38:35,580
and that he must observe a 10 p.m. curfew.

891
00:38:35,580 --> 00:38:39,820
That doesn't sound like a, I don't know, because probation you think like you're not allowed

892
00:38:39,820 --> 00:38:41,700
to leave that state.

893
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:44,020
So it's kind of funny that they're like, go to another state.

894
00:38:44,020 --> 00:38:46,740
Oh that's true, yeah you're right.

895
00:38:46,740 --> 00:38:51,140
Upon his release, Gacy had told a friend and fellow J.C. Clarence Lane who picked him up

896
00:38:51,140 --> 00:38:55,740
from the prison and also remained loyal to the idea that Gacy was innocent, that he would

897
00:38:55,740 --> 00:39:03,220
quote, never go back to jail and that he intended to reestablish himself in Waterloo eventually.

898
00:39:03,220 --> 00:39:08,660
Within 24 hours of being released, Gacy was relocated to Chicago by bus on June 19th and

899
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:12,540
shortly after began working as a short order cook in a restaurant.

900
00:39:12,540 --> 00:39:15,180
Seemingly laying low for a while, Gacy obeyed the rules of a per-

901
00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:45,160
Buh Turtle as a slapped

902
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:46,160
June 18.

903
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,160
So he couldn't just wait the, what, four months?

904
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,160
Three months?

905
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,160
Yeah.

906
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:58,840
The court dismissed the charges when the boy failed to appear in court.

907
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,880
I wonder who he hired to intimidate him.

908
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,600
On June 22nd, so this would have been about four days after his original probation was

909
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,960
up, but it got extended because of this past charge.

910
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:16,080
So on June 22nd, Gacy was arrested again and charged with aggravated sexual battery and

911
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,640
reckless conduct.

912
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,720
The arrest was in response to a complaint filed by a youth who claimed that Gacy had

913
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:27,400
flashed him a sheriff's badge, lured him into his car, and forced him to perform oral

914
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:28,720
sex.

915
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,560
The charges were dropped after the boy attempted to blackmail Gacy.

916
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,680
Somehow, because police departments do not communicate, the Iowa Board of Parole did

917
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:42,760
not learn about these arrests, and Gacy's parole ended in October 1971.

918
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:49,360
But they didn't, okay, so the thing is like even the case of like clearly that boy pressed

919
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,200
charges or whatever, and then it was gonna go to court, but the boy didn't show up.

920
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,400
Well, clearly someone in that court system or whatever knows that he was, he's a parolee.

921
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,880
Yeah, no, they have to.

922
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:01,040
You know what I mean?

923
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,280
So why would it even be up to like the kid showing up?

924
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,280
It's just stupid.

925
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:10,240
Well, I think it got extended and then it ended up ending anyway, even though he wasn't

926
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,000
like officially charged.

927
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,120
But still, you would think like clearly you were charged with this before you were, you

928
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,320
know, maxed for ten years.

929
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,280
You would think that they'd be like, oh well, clearly repeat offender.

930
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,280
Like it would be up to the state to charge is what I'm saying.

931
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:26,280
No, for sure.

932
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,920
Because it would be a second offense.

933
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:31,080
That's so weird.

934
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:35,400
The following month, the records of Gacy's previous criminal convictions were sealed

935
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,960
for unknown reasons.

936
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,920
So now they can't even look into that if they want.

937
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,240
With financial help from his mom, Gacy purchased a ranch house near the village of Norwich

938
00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:50,480
in Norwood Park Township, the outskirts of Cook County in Chicago, like little tiny

939
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:51,480
suburb.

940
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:52,480
Okay.

941
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,880
Him and his mother would live at this home together and him for the rest of his free life.

942
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,600
During the time he lived there, Gacy was known for being very active in the community and

943
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,640
helpful towards his neighbors.

944
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,600
He would willingly loan construction tools to neighbors and offered to plow snow from

945
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,640
their sidewalks free of charge.

946
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,240
He's such a nice guy.

947
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:14,160
He even hosted annual summer parties that were devoted to a different theme and had nearly

948
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:19,680
400 people in attendance each year, including politicians.

949
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:20,680
You're so right.

950
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,520
He's just such a narcissist.

951
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,920
He's so egotistical that he's just, he's terrible.

952
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:29,080
That's what he thrives on is being the good guy to as many people as possible.

953
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,880
Gacy began dating a woman he had attended high school with and briefly dated in high

954
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:39,720
school by the name of Carol Hoff and the two got engaged shortly after reconnecting.

955
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:41,220
Sure.

956
00:42:41,220 --> 00:42:45,040
Carol and her two young daughters from a previous marriage moved in with Gacy shortly after

957
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,520
they announced their engagement and Gacy's mother moved out around the same time.

958
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,160
Carol was noted saying about Gacy, quote, he slept me off my feet.

959
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,240
I don't think I loved him, but I was still mixed up about my first marriage and he treated

960
00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:58,240
me well.

961
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:03,480
In the same year, 1971, Gacy established a part-time construction business.

962
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:09,000
He named this business PDM for painting, decorating and maintenance.

963
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:14,320
Gacy worked evenings on his construction contracts while working as a cook during the day.

964
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:20,040
Initially, he overtook minor repair work like signwriting, pouring concrete and redecorating,

965
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:25,520
but he later moved up to take over interior design, remodeling, installation, assembly

966
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:26,520
and landscaping.

967
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,240
Do you think his new wife knows about his past?

968
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:31,240
I don't think so.

969
00:43:31,240 --> 00:43:32,240
Yeah.

970
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:33,240
I don't think so.

971
00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,520
Well, because it makes sense he would start his own business if he couldn't get a job.

972
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,520
Yeah, that's true.

973
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,520
You know?

974
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,520
Yeah.

975
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:40,520
And then just a cook.

976
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,480
But I would be wondering, you know, you have all this, you have like, you know, this

977
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:48,080
degree and like all these really amazing things that you've done, like, why are you a cook?

978
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,080
Yeah, no, for sure.

979
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,840
Kind of thing, you know, especially if politicians know him.

980
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:52,840
Yeah.

981
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,960
So, Gacy quickly reverted to his old ways and would often proposition his employees for

982
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:04,400
sex or insist on sexual favors for acts such as lending them vehicles, financial assistance

983
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:05,400
or promotions.

984
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,560
I don't think I've ever been in a situation as a friend where I'm like, hey, can I get

985
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,560
a ride?

986
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:10,560
Yeah, sure.

987
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:11,560
Handy?

988
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,560
Yeah, literally.

989
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,360
I've never been in a situation like that.

990
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:15,360
You got gas handy?

991
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,360
Yeah.

992
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,360
Is it a gas money?

993
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,200
I did have a former friend that flashed somebody from mushrooms once though.

994
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:22,680
Oh my gosh, that's funny.

995
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:30,240
Gacy would also talk about the fact that he owned guns and one time told an employee,

996
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:35,440
quote, do you know how easy it would be to get one of my guns and kill you and how easy

997
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,480
it would be to get rid of the body?

998
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,800
Like that's a fucking red flag.

999
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:41,200
I've never heard one.

1000
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,000
It's a red flag because it's a lie.

1001
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,040
He would keep it and snuggle it.

1002
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:50,640
It's a lie.

1003
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,880
So this is the part, content warning, that we're going to get into his first murder and

1004
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,000
it's going to be a lot from there on.

1005
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,240
So just to let everyone know.

1006
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:04,920
In the early morning hours of January 3rd, 1972, Gacy was nearby the Greyhound bus stop

1007
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:10,760
where he came upon 16 year old Timothy Jack McCoy and lured him into his car.

1008
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,320
Timothy was returning from a Christmas vacation in Michigan to his father's home in Omaha,

1009
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:16,320
Nebraska.

1010
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,400
Since he was not from town, Gacy told him he would take him on a sightseeing tour around

1011
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,560
Chicago and then drive him to his home with the promise that he would bring him back to

1012
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,600
the bus station the following morning.

1013
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,600
McCoy agreed and the two took off from the bus station.

1014
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,760
The next morning, Gacy claimed to have awoken to Timothy standing in his bedroom doorway

1015
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,400
with a kitchen knife in his hand.

1016
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,120
Gacy jumped from his bed and Timothy raised his hands up in a gesture of surrender and

1017
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:50,640
accidentally cut Gacy's forearm with the knife in the process when he lifted his hands up.

1018
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:54,840
Gacy responded to this by twisting the knife from Timothy's wrist, banged his head against

1019
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,200
the bedroom wall and kicked him against the dresser and walked towards him.

1020
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,360
Timothy then kicked Gacy in the stomach, doubling him over.

1021
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,760
Gacy grabbed Timothy shouting, quote, motherfucker, I'll kill you.

1022
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,960
He then wrestled Timothy to the floor and straddled him and proceeded to stab him multiple times

1023
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,360
in the chest.

1024
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:21,240
As Timothy lay dying, Gacy washed the knife off in his bathroom, then went to his kitchen

1025
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:26,960
and saw an opened carton of eggs and a slab of unsliced bacon on the kitchen table.

1026
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,200
Somebody is preparing breakfast?

1027
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,440
Timothy had set the table for two.

1028
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:36,720
He had walked into Gacy's room to wake him while absentmindedly carrying the knife in

1029
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:37,720
his hand.

1030
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:38,720
Aw.

1031
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:40,720
And this is Gacy's story too, right?

1032
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:41,720
Yeah.

1033
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:43,720
So you don't know how true it is or how not true it is.

1034
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:45,960
Well, you think he romanticized it?

1035
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:51,120
No, I think that Gacy was trying to say, like, I thought he was coming to attack me because

1036
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,120
he had a knife.

1037
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:53,120
But it was all.

1038
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,960
So I just immediately, of course, self-defense.

1039
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,080
And then I realized afterwards that he was just preparing breakfast and he was just trying

1040
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,080
to wake me up.

1041
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:07,800
So we have talked about that before on another episode about how some people, they, it's

1042
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:13,000
like they, they want to like blame the victim, but they feel badly, like they feel guilty

1043
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,520
of what they did.

1044
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,280
Even if it's like, these are my just, oh, it was Diane Stouty, which is like, these are

1045
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:20,600
my justifications for what I did.

1046
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,480
But it, you know, but it wasn't their fault or, you know, and then she was like, well,

1047
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,720
Sean was the one that was poisoning people, but it wasn't his fault or whatever.

1048
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:33,080
So that's really interesting that he would choose to light it like that.

1049
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:34,080
Yeah, no, definitely.

1050
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:39,080
Well, I did do this crime, although it was in self-defense, but he technically didn't

1051
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,680
do anything wrong because he would feel bad about blaming the victim.

1052
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:43,680
Yeah, no, I agree.

1053
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,760
That's definitely an interesting way to think about it.

1054
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:48,120
I didn't think about it like that.

1055
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,440
This next part is a content warning.

1056
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:55,960
Gacy said that immediately after killing Timothy, he felt quote, totally drained, yet noted

1057
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:01,720
that as he stabbed Timothy and listened to the quote, gurgulations and gasping for air

1058
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:05,800
that he experienced a mind numbing orgasm.

1059
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,040
Okay, Karla Faituckers.

1060
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:09,360
I was just thinking that.

1061
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,480
I didn't want to say it, but she's a fucking million orgasm.

1062
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,720
I had 57, 35,000 orgasms.

1063
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:17,720
Jesus.

1064
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:22,960
Gacy also added, quote, that's when I realized that death was the ultimate thrill.

1065
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,280
Oh, like, how cliche.

1066
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:30,720
Yeah, like how, like, how deep of you.

1067
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,040
He hid Timothy's body in a crawl space underneath his house.

1068
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:35,600
I know we've heard that before.

1069
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:37,040
That is his MO.

1070
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,120
Yes.

1071
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:45,320
In June of 1972, Gacy and Carol tied the knot and the construction business was booming.

1072
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:52,040
In 1973, Gacy and a teenage employee traveled to Florida to view a property Gacy had purchased.

1073
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:57,240
On their first night in Florida, Gacy raped the employee in their hotel room.

1074
00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:01,760
After returning to Chicago, the employee drove to Gacy's house and beat him in his

1075
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,360
front yard.

1076
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:05,560
Wow.

1077
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,680
When asked what happened by his wife, Gacy said that he had been attacked for refusing

1078
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,800
to pay the employee for a poor quality paint job.

1079
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:14,800
Sure, that's what it was.

1080
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:15,800
That's exactly what happened, right?

1081
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:16,800
Yeah, totally.

1082
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,200
That's what a normal person does when they don't get paid by their boss is beat the shit

1083
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,320
out of them.

1084
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:29,280
So the first victim, Timothy, he's buried in the crawl space in the family home?

1085
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,280
Yes.

1086
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:31,280
Oh.

1087
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:32,280
Yes.

1088
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,280
Okay.

1089
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:34,280
Yeah.

1090
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:35,280
That's much more disturbing.

1091
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,280
Yeah.

1092
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,280
Yeah.

1093
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:38,280
Yeah.

1094
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:45,040
In January, 1974, Gacy murdered again, this time an unidentified boy.

1095
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:49,360
Gacy strangled him and then placed his body in the closet before burying him underneath

1096
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:50,840
his house.

1097
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:55,180
He later stated that bodily fluids leaked from the victim's mouth and nose staining

1098
00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:57,000
his carpet.

1099
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:02,240
As a result, Gacy regularly stuffed cloth rags, the victim's underwear or a sock into

1100
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:05,600
the mouths of his other victims to prevent this from happening.

1101
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,440
But okay, so he didn't like give a description of like how he found this boy or anything?

1102
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:10,840
He's unidentified to this day.

1103
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,640
So it's just when they found him and he's like, oh shit, I don't remember.

1104
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,040
It was around this time, I think.

1105
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,040
Yeah.

1106
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:19,040
Pretty much.

1107
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,040
What a piece of shit.

1108
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:25,600
Almost a year later or over a year later in May, 1975, Gacy hired 15 year old Anthony

1109
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,880
Etanucci at PDM.

1110
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:28,880
Etanucci.

1111
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:34,520
Two months into working there, Anthony had an accident resulting in his foot being injured.

1112
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,000
Gacy went to his home to check in on him supposedly.

1113
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,880
Oh, and he just brought some wine along with him.

1114
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,520
You know, just in case.

1115
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,800
Mix it with that Vicodin baby.

1116
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:43,800
Yeah.

1117
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,720
The two drank a bottle of wine and watched a heterosexual stag film before Gacy wrestled

1118
00:50:48,720 --> 00:50:54,240
him to the ground and cuffed his hands behind his back.

1119
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:58,720
Gacy left the room for a second and while he was gone, Anthony noticed that one of the

1120
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:02,680
cuffs was loose and he was able to get his hand free.

1121
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:07,000
When Gacy returned, Anthony pounced on him using his knowledge of wrestling to help him

1122
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:08,640
gain the upper hand.

1123
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,160
But that's Gacy's like.

1124
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:12,160
That's his thing.

1125
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:16,080
Yeah, that's like Superman and the Sun.

1126
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:21,880
He wrestled Gacy to the floor, obtained possession of the handcuff key and handcuffed Gacy's hands

1127
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,840
behind his back.

1128
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,840
Damn.

1129
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,080
Bad ass bitch alert.

1130
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:30,560
At first, Gacy threatened Anthony, but then he calmed down and promised to leave if he

1131
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,720
would remove the handcuffs.

1132
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:35,480
Anthony agreed and uncuffed Gacy, who took off.

1133
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:36,480
Oh, he left.

1134
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:37,480
He left.

1135
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:38,480
Okay.

1136
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:42,760
Anthony later recalled that Gacy told him, quote, not only are you the only one who got

1137
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,960
out of the cuffs, you got them on me.

1138
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,880
That means he's always done that before.

1139
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,680
The same month on Mother's Day, Gacy and his wife were getting intimate when Gacy stated

1140
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,920
to her that this would be, quote, the last time they would ever have sex.

1141
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:58,920
She said that?

1142
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,960
He said that to her on Mother's Day.

1143
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:02,880
On Mother's Day.

1144
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:04,380
No babies for you.

1145
00:52:04,380 --> 00:52:09,160
He admitted to his wife that he was bisexual and he began spending most evenings away from

1146
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:13,920
home only to return in the early hours of the morning with the excuse that he had been

1147
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:14,920
working late.

1148
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:16,680
No, he was out with men.

1149
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:17,680
Yeah.

1150
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:18,680
Oh yeah.

1151
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:23,760
He agreed Gacy bringing teenage boys into the garage in the early hours and also found

1152
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,680
homosexual pornography and men's wallets and IDs in the home.

1153
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:29,680
What?

1154
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,640
Oh, that's a red flag right there, Karen.

1155
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:32,640
You call the cops.

1156
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:33,640
Carol.

1157
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,200
Whatever.

1158
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,480
When she confronted Gacy about these items being in the home, he got mad and told her

1159
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:41,720
it was none of her business.

1160
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:43,600
Is that in your business, Karen?

1161
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:44,600
Yeah.

1162
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,120
Mind your business, Karen.

1163
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:47,120
Carol.

1164
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:54,480
On July 31st, 1975, 18-year-old John Bukovic, a PDM employee from Lombard, disappeared.

1165
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,880
John's car was found parked near the corner of Sheridan and Lawrence and his jacket and

1166
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,880
wallet inside with the keys still in the ignition.

1167
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,320
The day before his disappearance, John had confronted Gacy over two weeks of back pay

1168
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:08,320
he owed him.

1169
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:09,320
What?

1170
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:10,320
That sucks.

1171
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,320
Yeah, I'd be pissed too.

1172
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:16,000
Mr. Bukovic called Gacy, who claimed he was happy to help in the search for his son but

1173
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,760
was sorry that he had, quote, run away.

1174
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:19,760
That the son had run away?

1175
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,760
Yeah, like no one said he ran away.

1176
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:23,760
And you're the one.

1177
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,960
Oh yeah, sorry about that.

1178
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:26,960
He ran away.

1179
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:27,960
Oh, he ran away.

1180
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:28,960
Yeah, how do you know?

1181
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:29,960
Did he tell you something?

1182
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:30,960
Did he tell you something?

1183
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:31,960
Did he leave a note?

1184
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:36,000
When questioned by the police, Gacy said that John and two friends had arrived at his home

1185
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:42,480
demanding the overdue pay but they had reached a compromise and all three teens had left.

1186
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:48,320
Over the following three years, John's parents called police more than 100 times urging them

1187
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,240
to investigate Gacy further.

1188
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:51,240
Yeah, yeah.

1189
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:54,880
I mean as a parent I'd be pissed, like can't find my fucking kid.

1190
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:55,880
Yeah.

1191
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,560
And nobody seems to be taking it seriously.

1192
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,680
You just take one's random person's word for it.

1193
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:01,680
Yeah, exactly.

1194
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,960
That was the last person to see him alive pretty much.

1195
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:10,040
Gacy later admitted to encountering John exiting his car at the corner of West Lawrence, waving

1196
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:12,360
to get his attention.

1197
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:17,480
According to Gacy, John approached his car stating, quote, I want to talk to you.

1198
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,760
Gacy invited John into his car, then invited him back to his house, seemingly to settle

1199
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,360
the money issue.

1200
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:25,360
With the keys in the ignition?

1201
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:28,560
Yeah, that's like, oh, let me just hop out of my car real quick.

1202
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,560
And then just go with you in your car when my car is right there.

1203
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:33,680
This is all true.

1204
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:35,120
This next part.

1205
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:40,040
At his home, Gacy offered John a drink, then condom into allowing his wrist to be tied

1206
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:41,560
behind his back.

1207
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,280
Gacy later confessed to having, quote, sat on the kid's chest for a while before he

1208
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:47,680
strangled him.

1209
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:53,520
He put John's body in the garage, intending to bury him later in the crawl space.

1210
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,400
When Carol and the kids returned to the home earlier than expected, Gacy buried John's

1211
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,680
body under the concrete floor in the garage.

1212
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:02,680
How?

1213
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:06,680
Like, I guess you would, I don't know.

1214
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:08,520
Like that's loud as fuck.

1215
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,760
Unless it's one of those garages that has like, like there's a concrete slab, but there's

1216
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:13,960
like grass all around.

1217
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:15,480
Yeah, that's what it seems like.

1218
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,800
So like he could maybe bury it under.

1219
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,400
Yeah, because otherwise what?

1220
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:24,760
Like you would have to get like a sledgehammer, one of those jackhammers or something to do

1221
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,240
that.

1222
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:31,480
Among the many things that Gacy was involved in, in 1975, he also got back into politics

1223
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,400
and entered the local Democratic Party.

1224
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:40,000
He initially offered his employees as volunteers to clean party headquarters at no charge.

1225
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,560
Like, he like, voluntold his employees to go do this.

1226
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,040
Voluntold, I hate that.

1227
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:47,040
Voluntold.

1228
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,280
He was rewarded for his community service with an appointment to serve on the Norwood

1229
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:56,660
Park Township Street Lighting Committee and earned the title of precinct captain.

1230
00:55:56,660 --> 00:55:58,960
This is also the time where he met Russell and Carter.

1231
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,160
So this is coming back to that, what we talked about earlier.

1232
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:06,000
Okay, I just don't understand why this guy has a record of like, sodomizing children

1233
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,320
or something.

1234
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,640
And then he's like able to.

1235
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,960
He's able to just manipulate people still and be politically involved.

1236
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,000
Remember, his record is sealed though, somehow.

1237
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:18,000
That's right.

1238
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,880
I forgot about that.

1239
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:25,520
The event that he met Russell and Carter later became an embarrassment to the United States

1240
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:30,760
Secret Service because in the photo, Gacy is seen wearing a pen with the letter S on

1241
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:36,200
it, indicating a person given special clearance.

1242
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,960
So they were like, we're embarrassed that we didn't know this fucking guy was like actively

1243
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:44,480
killing people and we like gave him like special privileges for the fucking government.

1244
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:50,880
But they're like looking at my search history and they're like, oh, bitch did it.

1245
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,880
Yeah, exactly.

1246
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,760
She researches true crime.

1247
00:56:53,760 --> 00:57:00,040
Around October of 1975, Gacy and Carol got into an argument after she balanced a checkbook

1248
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,960
incorrectly.

1249
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:07,000
And all of the pent up anger from both of them came out.

1250
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:12,800
Carol asked Gacy for a divorce and he agreed to the request, although by mutual consent.

1251
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:17,160
She continued to live at the home with the children until February of 1976.

1252
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,920
So after they moved out, Carol and her daughters moved into an apartment.

1253
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:26,080
And one month later on March 2nd, 1976, the divorce was granted, decreed on the false

1254
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,680
grounds of Gacy's infidelity with women.

1255
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:34,520
Now if Gacy wasn't already involved in literally everything in late 1975, he heard about a

1256
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:39,880
Jolly Joker clown club that members regularly performed at fundraising events and for hospitalized

1257
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:41,040
children.

1258
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,360
So he decides to take on yet another opportunity.

1259
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:49,200
And of course this is where we get into the infamous, you know, killer clown kind of thing.

1260
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,440
Gacy decided that he wanted to join the club and created his own characters, pogo the clown

1261
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:55,760
and patches the clown.

1262
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:57,240
Yeah, I didn't hear about patches.

1263
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,120
I know about pogo though.

1264
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:05,680
He described pogo as a quote, happy clown, whereas patches was a more serious character.

1265
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:06,680
That's kind of scary.

1266
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:07,680
Which one kills people?

1267
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:08,680
Yeah.

1268
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:09,680
Both.

1269
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,520
Gacy rarely earned money for his performances and later stated that acting as a clown allowed

1270
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,640
him to quote, regress into childhood.

1271
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:18,640
That's terrifying.

1272
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:19,640
That's disgusting.

1273
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:21,920
Okay, Michael Jackson.

1274
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,840
He performed as both pogo and patches at numerous local parties, political functions, charitable

1275
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,920
events and children hospitals.

1276
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:34,360
All those pictures of him, they look like you ever see those really creepy Halloween costumes

1277
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,480
from like 1920 and 30s and stuff like that.

1278
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:39,600
Yes, terrifying.

1279
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:44,920
Sometimes Gacy would remain in his clown costumes after a performance and go have a drink at

1280
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,120
a local bar before returning home.

1281
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,000
I would be like, get the fuck out of here.

1282
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,000
Leave.

1283
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,920
Who are you?

1284
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:57,680
His public service as a clown throughout the years of his murders led him to being known

1285
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,160
as the Killer Clown.

1286
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:00,400
Of course.

1287
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,480
After Gacy was a bachelor again, neighbors frequently noticed him having company of many

1288
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:09,780
different teenage boys and a lot of strange behavior from Gacy himself, although nothing

1289
00:59:09,780 --> 00:59:12,720
suspicious enough to call in about.

1290
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,960
One month after his divorce was finalized, Gacy abducted 18 year old Daryl Samson.

1291
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:22,560
He was last seen in Chicago on April 6, 1976.

1292
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:26,640
Gacy murdered the boy and buried him under the dining room with a section of cloth lodged

1293
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:28,760
in his throat.

1294
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:33,560
Five weeks later, on the afternoon of May 14th, 15 year old Randall Reffett disappeared

1295
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,940
shortly after returning to his home from a dental appointment.

1296
00:59:36,940 --> 00:59:41,920
He was last seen by his grandmother later that afternoon, a victim of Gacy's.

1297
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,640
By the way, we're going to go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom right now just to let everyone

1298
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,140
know.

1299
00:59:46,140 --> 00:59:51,120
Just hours after Randall was last seen, 14 year old Samuel Stapleton vanished as he walked

1300
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,960
home from his sister's apartment.

1301
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,280
In the same day?

1302
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:58,480
He and Randall were close friends, and Gacy buried both of the boys together in the crawl

1303
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:04,160
space, investigators believing that both boys were killed on the same evening.

1304
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,600
On June 3rd, Gacy killed a 17 year old Lake View Teen named Michael Bonin.

1305
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,920
He disappeared while traveling from Chicago to Waukegan.

1306
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:16,120
Gacy strangled Michael with a ligature and buried him under the spare bedroom.

1307
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:21,320
10 days later, Gacy murdered 16 year old William Carroll and buried him in a common grave in

1308
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,280
the crawl space.

1309
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:27,600
William was the first of four victims known to have been murdered between June 13th and

1310
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:31,880
August 6th, 1976.

1311
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:38,920
Three were between 16 and 17 years old, and one unidentified victim was an adult.

1312
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:44,960
On July 26th, 1976, Gacy picked up 18 year old David Cram as he was hitchhiking on Elston

1313
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:46,440
Avenue.

1314
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,520
Gacy offered him a job with PDM, and he began working that same evening.

1315
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:55,800
On August 5th, a 16 year old Minnesota teen named James Hackison is last known to have

1316
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,040
phoned his family, possibly from Gacy's home.

1317
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:03,080
James died of suffocation at the hands of Gacy, and his body was buried in the crawl

1318
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:09,200
space beneath the body of a 17 year old Benzville teen named Rick Johnston, who was last seen

1319
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,240
on August 6th as well.

1320
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,360
It's like so much to even like think about.

1321
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:20,080
On August 21st, David Cram, the guy who had previously gotten the job, moved into the

1322
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:24,880
Gacy home after working at PDM for a month and needing a place to stay.

1323
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:25,880
What?

1324
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:26,880
How bad does that place smell?

1325
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:27,880
Literally.

1326
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:28,880
We say that all the time.

1327
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:29,880
I know.

1328
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,480
Like we watch Dommer, you're like, how bad does that apartment smell?

1329
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,720
The next day, David and Gacy shared several drinks to celebrate David's 19th birthday,

1330
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,480
and Gacy dressed as Pogo the Clown.

1331
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:49,000
Like I would be like, please, this is the last thing I want.

1332
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:50,160
Is this the nightmare?

1333
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:54,520
Now Gacy had a specific MO to get his victims to agree to be handcuffed, because we've talked

1334
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:58,360
about this previously, how he somehow convinces these guys to become handcuffed.

1335
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,480
He would quote, show them a magic trick and handcuff himself, the key hidden in his hand

1336
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:04,720
as he did it.

1337
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,480
He would then unlock the handcuffs seemingly without the key, and the boys were always intrigued

1338
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,640
as to how he was able to get out of them.

1339
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,160
He would then convince the boys to become handcuffed and try to get out of them, and

1340
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,640
they would agree.

1341
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:18,640
Interesting.

1342
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,960
When they could not get out of the cuffs, they would become nervous, and Gacy would

1343
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:27,600
say quote, the trick is you have to have the key.

1344
01:02:27,600 --> 01:02:32,360
Imagine like that fear setting in like when you know that you're fucking trapped.

1345
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:33,360
Terrifying.

1346
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:34,760
And it's a clown telling you that.

1347
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:35,760
Oh my God.

1348
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:36,760
I would freak out.

1349
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:37,760
I would freak out.

1350
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:39,760
I would freak out.

1351
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:41,920
I would just start crying.

1352
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:43,880
Now back to the night with David.

1353
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:48,240
Gacy convinced him to become handcuffed in front of his body rather than behind.

1354
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,920
He swung David around while holding the chain linking the cuffs, and he said he intended

1355
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:54,400
to rape him.

1356
01:02:54,400 --> 01:03:00,240
David kicked Gacy in the face, LOL, and managed to free himself from the handcuffs.

1357
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:05,080
Despite this strange encounter, David continued to live in the home and work at PDM.

1358
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:06,080
What?

1359
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,600
And Gacy was like, oh, I was just drunk, bro.

1360
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:09,600
Like everything's fine.

1361
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:10,600
Yeah.

1362
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:11,600
Like, no, nothing.

1363
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:12,600
No, no, don't worry about it.

1364
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:13,600
Don't worry about it.

1365
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:14,600
Oh, that smell in the basement.

1366
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:15,600
I don't know.

1367
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,600
Some old meat, my parents sent me.

1368
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,600
It's just some old meat my parents sent me in the freezer.

1369
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:22,600
The freezer.

1370
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:23,600
He's so Midwestern.

1371
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:24,600
So bad.

1372
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:25,600
Gacy is...

1373
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:26,600
Love Evan Peters, though.

1374
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:31,600
He did a good job of him.

1375
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:36,720
Gacy is thought to have murdered two further unidentified males between August and October

1376
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:41,360
1976, seemingly while David was still living in the home.

1377
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:47,000
A month after the attempted attack on David in September 1976, Gacy appeared at David's

1378
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:53,360
door intending to rape him, saying, quote, Dave, you really don't know who I am.

1379
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:55,960
Maybe it would be good if you give me what I want.

1380
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:57,360
I'm just drunk.

1381
01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:58,640
Like fuck you.

1382
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:06,280
David resisted and somehow got Gacy to leave the bedroom, saying, quote, you ain't no fun.

1383
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,280
Like fuck you.

1384
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:08,280
Gacy said you ain't no fun.

1385
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:09,280
You ain't no fun.

1386
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,280
Fuck you.

1387
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,680
Yeah, I'm not fine because I don't want to be raped.

1388
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:14,680
Hold it right there.

1389
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:15,680
Hold it right there.

1390
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:16,680
Hold it there.

1391
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:17,680
Stay.

1392
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:23,560
After this incident happened, David moved out of the home on October 5, 1976 and resigned

1393
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:24,560
from PDM.

1394
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:25,560
Good.

1395
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,680
He did periodically work for Gacy over the next two years.

1396
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:29,680
That's creepy though.

1397
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:30,680
I don't think, I don't know.

1398
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:33,800
I just, like, how do you remain friends with somebody like that?

1399
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,440
That's so weird.

1400
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:40,440
Shortly after David moved out of the home, another boy, 18-year-old Michael Rossi, moved

1401
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:41,440
in.

1402
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:48,280
Michael had worked for PDM since May of 1976 and he lived with Gacy until April of 1977.

1403
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:54,360
Michael sometimes assisted Gacy in clowning at grand openings of business, businesses.

1404
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:56,480
Gacy as Pogo and Michael as Patches.

1405
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:57,640
Oh, okay.

1406
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:03,880
On October 24, 1976, Gacy abducted and killed teenage friends Kenneth Parker and Michael

1407
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:04,960
Marino.

1408
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,200
The two were last seen outside a restaurant on Clark Street in Chicago.

1409
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:14,200
Two days later, 19-year-old construction worker William Bundy disappeared after informing

1410
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,480
his family that he was going to attend a party.

1411
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:21,520
William died of suffocation at the hands of Gacy and he buried the body beneath the master

1412
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:22,520
bedroom.

1413
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:27,640
It's interesting too, it's like, where does he, like, what's the methodology of choosing

1414
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:29,720
where the victims are going to be buried?

1415
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:33,800
Like, is it someone that you want closer to you, so you put them under the master bedroom

1416
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:35,120
rather than, like, in the living room?

1417
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:36,120
I don't know.

1418
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,520
You know, I was thinking about that too, like when you said under the dining room.

1419
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:39,520
Like, it's very specific.

1420
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:45,240
So, clearly it's been reiterated from him, like, and then I put him under the dining

1421
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:46,240
room, then I put him under the dining room.

1422
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,000
I mean, of course, it's where they were found eventually.

1423
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:49,000
That's true.

1424
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:50,000
And that's probably why.

1425
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,920
It could be, like, one of those interview things where it's like, well, the police might

1426
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,520
know the layout of the house, it was easier to describe.

1427
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:56,520
That's true.

1428
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,120
You know, under the bedroom, under the dining room, so that they know.

1429
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,620
That's true.

1430
01:06:00,620 --> 01:06:04,600
William Bundy had allegedly worked at PDM for Gacy as well.

1431
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:10,120
Between November and December 1976, Gacy murdered 21-year-old Francis Alexander.

1432
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:15,120
His last contact with his family was a phone call to his mother, made sometime in November.

1433
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:19,880
Alexander was buried in the crawl space directly beneath the room Gacy used as his office.

1434
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:24,800
Mind you, another one of his PDM employees, Michael Rossi, is still living with him at

1435
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:25,800
this point.

1436
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,480
It's kind of weird, like, again, this is the second time that he's had an employee work

1437
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,520
with him, or, sorry, live with him.

1438
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,020
But I don't know, it's kind of weird that he would try to, like, mess with that other

1439
01:06:36,020 --> 01:06:40,320
guy too, David, because it's like kind of shitting where you don't shit where you eat

1440
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:41,320
kind of a thing.

1441
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:45,000
Well, also, like, this guy, Michael's not noticing that all of his employees are, like,

1442
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:46,000
quitting unexpectedly.

1443
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:47,000
Right.

1444
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:48,000
Or, like, not showing up to him.

1445
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,120
Michael's worked for him for, like, a hot minute, right?

1446
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:52,520
And so, but it's just weird, I don't know.

1447
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,080
Because he's probably gonna assault this kid too, right?

1448
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:56,360
Well, we'll see.

1449
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:01,800
In December 1976, another PDM employee, 17-year-old Gregory Godsick, disappeared.

1450
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,320
This is what I mean, like, why is he killing off his employees?

1451
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:06,320
I don't know.

1452
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:07,560
Because he's just gonna hire more, I guess.

1453
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,640
Yeah, there's new 16-year-olds every day, so.

1454
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:14,240
His girlfriend, lost, saw him outside her house after he dropped her off at home following

1455
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,400
a date the two of them had shared.

1456
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,960
Gregory had worked for PDM less than three weeks before he disappeared.

1457
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,360
Oh, that's wise, because he thinks somebody's gonna know.

1458
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,080
Because he's like, oh, just didn't work out for him, he just quit.

1459
01:07:25,080 --> 01:07:26,080
Yeah.

1460
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:30,240
Before going missing, he had informed his family that Gacy had hired him to do some outside

1461
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:35,280
work, quote, digging trenches for some kind of drain tiles in his crawl space.

1462
01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:40,000
So he literally dug his own grave with that luggage.

1463
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,000
Oh, my God.

1464
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:43,000
It's awful.

1465
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:44,000
Oh, that's...

1466
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:45,000
Yeah.

1467
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:49,760
After the car was found later abandoned in Niles, Gregory's parents and older sister,

1468
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,040
Eugenia, contacted Gacy about his disappearance.

1469
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:57,080
Gacy claimed that he had run away from home and that Gregory had confided in him about

1470
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:58,920
wanting to do so.

1471
01:07:58,920 --> 01:08:03,160
Gacy also claimed to have received a message on his answering machine from Gregory shortly

1472
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,080
after he supposedly ran away.

1473
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:10,320
When asked by Gregory's family if Gacy could play the message back to them, he said he

1474
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:11,320
had deleted it.

1475
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:12,320
I just deleted it.

1476
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,920
It was a point of vital information, but I just deleted it.

1477
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:16,600
I'm deleting this like...

1478
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:17,600
It's evidence that I deleted it.

1479
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,880
Yeah, like purely fucking like...

1480
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:28,360
It's the one thing that could absolve me from a crime that I deleted it.

1481
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:34,800
On January 20th, 1977, Gacy lured 19-year-old John Scheitz into his house with the promise

1482
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,400
that he would buy John's Plymouth satellite from him.

1483
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:39,920
Gacy later confessed to strangling...

1484
01:08:39,920 --> 01:08:40,920
What's a Plymouth...

1485
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:41,920
Oh, it's a car.

1486
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:42,920
Sorry, my bad.

1487
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:47,320
...to strangling John in his spare bedroom, claiming Michael was asleep in the house

1488
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:48,320
at the time.

1489
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:51,920
Gacy later sold the car to Michael for $300.

1490
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:52,920
Sure.

1491
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,920
Okay, Michael, I see you, Michael.

1492
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:56,920
It's a little sus.

1493
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:57,920
It's a little sus.

1494
01:08:57,920 --> 01:08:58,920
It's a little fishy.

1495
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:00,920
Like, someone gets strangled in the room next to you and you don't hear anything.

1496
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,560
And you just got like this brand new car for $300?

1497
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:04,560
Yeah.

1498
01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:05,560
Interesting.

1499
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:11,520
Two months later, on March 15th, a 20-year-old Michigan native, John Prestige, disappeared.

1500
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:15,760
John was last seen leaving a restaurant, and Gacy abducted and strangled him to death.

1501
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:20,240
He was buried in the crawl space above the body of Francis Alexander.

1502
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:25,520
Shortly before he disappeared, John mentioned that he had obtained work with a local contractor.

1503
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,440
Gacy murdered one additional teen and buried him in the crawl space in the spring or early

1504
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:31,800
summer of 1977.

1505
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,040
The exact time of this murder is unknown and the youth has remained unidentified.

1506
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:36,040
I'm so sad.

1507
01:09:36,040 --> 01:09:39,120
Isn't it interesting how many Johns he murdered?

1508
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:40,120
There's a lot of Johns.

1509
01:09:40,120 --> 01:09:43,720
There's four or five already.

1510
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:48,640
On July 5th, Gacy killed a 19-year-old from Crystal Lake, Matthew Bowman.

1511
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:51,880
Matthew's mother was the last one to see him at a train station where he had intended

1512
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,320
to travel to another city to take care of a parking ticket.

1513
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:59,600
The following month, Michael Rossi, he's actually since moved out of Gacy's house,

1514
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,560
but the one that was living with him, was arrested for stealing gasoline while driving

1515
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:05,800
John Scheitz's car.

1516
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:10,360
The gas station attendant noted the license plate and police traced the car to Gacy's

1517
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:11,360
house.

1518
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,240
I guess they followed the car.

1519
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:18,800
Now again, Michael was no longer living with Gacy, but police arrived at his home to question

1520
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:19,800
him.

1521
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,600
Gacy informed police that John Scheitz had sold the car to him the previous February,

1522
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:25,880
saying he needed money to leave town.

1523
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:30,840
A check of the VIN number confirmed the car had indeed belonged to John.

1524
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,200
Following their meeting with Gacy, the police did nothing to pursue the matter further,

1525
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:39,320
although they did inform John's mother that he had sold his car.

1526
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:40,960
Like that's gonna fucking help.

1527
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,200
Great, okay, who has it?

1528
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:44,360
The man who murdered him.

1529
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,920
Great, there it is, solved.

1530
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:51,760
The police come up- okay, so is this the second or third time they've come up to the house?

1531
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:52,760
Second?

1532
01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:53,760
Maybe the first?

1533
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:54,760
Yeah, I think it's the first.

1534
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,080
Can't smell that shit through that fucking door?

1535
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:58,080
Oh no, it gets worse.

1536
01:10:58,080 --> 01:10:59,600
For fuck's sake.

1537
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:04,960
By the end of 1977, it is known that Gacy had murdered six more young men between the

1538
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,720
ages of 16 and 21.

1539
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:12,120
The first of these victims was 18-year-old Robert Gilroy, the son of a Chicago police

1540
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,960
sergeant, last seen alive on September 15th.

1541
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:16,960
What?

1542
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:20,520
Robert lived just four blocks away from Gacy, and his body was buried in the crawl space

1543
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:22,000
with the others.

1544
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,640
Like what?

1545
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:30,120
On September 12th, Gacy had flown to Pittsburgh to supervise a remodeling project and did not

1546
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,280
return to Chicago until September 16th.

1547
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:38,120
Because Gacy is known to have been in another state at the time Robert was last seen, police

1548
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:43,280
think he may have had one or more accomplices in several of his homicides.

1549
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:45,400
We'll come back to that.

1550
01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:51,000
Ten days after Robert was last seen, 19-year-old former US Marine John Mowry disappeared after

1551
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,120
leaving his mother's house to walk to his apartment.

1552
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:59,320
Gacy strangled John and buried his body beneath the master bedroom, another John.

1553
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:04,160
On October 17th, 21-year-old Minnesota native Russell Nelson disappeared.

1554
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:08,520
He was last seen outside of a Chicago bar and he came to Illinois looking for contracting

1555
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:09,520
work.

1556
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:14,520
Gacy lured him over, most likely on the premise of offering him work and murdered him.

1557
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:16,920
He buried the body underneath the guest bedroom.

1558
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,000
Again, this is what I mean by all the names.

1559
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:20,080
There's a lot of names.

1560
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:21,360
Yeah, a lot of names.

1561
01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:23,680
And we're going to keep going.

1562
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:28,000
Less than four weeks later, Gacy murdered a 16-year-old Kalamazoo teenager named Robert

1563
01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:31,040
Wench and buried him in the crawl space.

1564
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:35,680
On November 18th, 20-year-old single father Tommy Boiling disappeared after leaving a

1565
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,760
Chicago bar.

1566
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:42,680
Three weeks after this murder of Tommy, on December 9th, a 19-year-old Marine named David

1567
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:47,720
Talsma disappeared after informing his mother he was going to a rock concert in Hammond,

1568
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:48,720
Indiana.

1569
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:53,000
Gacy seemingly picked him up at a bus station and strangled him with a ligature and buried

1570
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,000
him in the crawl space.

1571
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:55,000
I'm so sad.

1572
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:56,800
Like, you didn't even make it out of the city.

1573
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:58,840
Like, that's so sad.

1574
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:03,440
On December 30th, Gacy abducted 19-year-old Robert Donnelly from a Chicago bus station

1575
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:04,440
at gunpoint.

1576
01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:06,680
Again, ballsy.

1577
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:10,240
Gacy drove him to his home where he raped, tortured, and repeatedly dunked Robert's head

1578
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:12,880
into a bathtub full of water until he passed out.

1579
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,240
Oh my god.

1580
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,280
Gacy teased and taunted him with statements like, quote, aren't we playing fun games

1581
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,280
tonight?

1582
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:20,760
Like, literally get fucked.

1583
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:22,000
I can't stand that shit.

1584
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:24,000
Like, you are the worst.

1585
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,080
Yeah, he honks his clown nose.

1586
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:27,080
God.

1587
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:30,720
This part's kind of bad.

1588
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:35,160
At one point Robert was so exhausted and desperate and in so much pain that he asked Gacy to

1589
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:38,720
just kill him so that he didn't have to suffer anymore.

1590
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,080
Gacy responded with, quote, I'm getting around to it.

1591
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:44,880
God, isn't that so awful?

1592
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:45,880
Hebe.

1593
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:47,160
Hebe hebe's.

1594
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:52,040
After several hours of this, Gacy actually did something completely out of the norm and

1595
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:57,560
he drove Robert to his workplace and released him, warning him that if he complained to

1596
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,720
the police, they would not believe him.

1597
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,880
So he is having fun, but he's not having so much fun that he's like, now he's like,

1598
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,160
okay, well, I'm going to release a few of these assholes so that then people know that

1599
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:08,160
I exist.

1600
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:09,160
Yeah.

1601
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:10,160
Because that's the whole thing, right?

1602
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:11,160
The egotism and narcissism.

1603
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:13,040
Yeah, no, he wants, yeah.

1604
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:14,600
He wants to be known now.

1605
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:18,720
It's not just fun that these are secrets because he's gotten away with it for so long.

1606
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,360
He wants people to know now.

1607
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,120
So of course we had direct quotes from that attack.

1608
01:14:24,120 --> 01:14:28,520
Robert later testified against Gacy in court and that's where this came from.

1609
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:34,040
Robert reported the assault immediately after and police questioned Gacy on January 6th,

1610
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:35,040
1978.

1611
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:36,040
Hey, did you do this?

1612
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:37,040
No.

1613
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:38,040
All right, have a nice day.

1614
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,160
Yeah, pretty much.

1615
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:45,200
Gacy admitted to having a, quote, sex slave relationship with Robert, but insisted that

1616
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:50,400
everything was consensual, adding that he, quote, didn't pay the kid the money he had

1617
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:51,400
promised him.

1618
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:52,960
He said, oh, I forgot to pay him.

1619
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:55,960
Can you go grab him actually and bring him back over here so I can pay him his money?

1620
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,480
In fact, can you just relinquish him to me?

1621
01:14:57,480 --> 01:14:58,480
I'll take care of him.

1622
01:14:58,480 --> 01:14:59,480
That's okay.

1623
01:14:59,480 --> 01:15:00,480
It's just like boyfriend.

1624
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:01,480
Yeah.

1625
01:15:01,480 --> 01:15:02,480
It's like a dommer.

1626
01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:03,480
Yeah.

1627
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:04,480
So the kid that was on drug debt, oh, it's just like boyfriend, he's just too drunk.

1628
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:05,480
Oh, he wasn't drugged up.

1629
01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:06,480
He was lobotomized.

1630
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:08,440
Oh, you're right.

1631
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:13,120
So after, you know, Gacy insisted this was consensual, the police believed him and nobody

1632
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,200
filed any charges for the police.

1633
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:16,920
I'm sorry, I didn't realize we were in LA.

1634
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:20,080
I didn't realize these were LAPD officers in Chicago.

1635
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:24,600
The following month, Gacy killed 19 year old William Kindred, who disappeared February

1636
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:31,080
16th after telling his fiance who knew Gacy that he was going to the bar for the evening.

1637
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:34,960
William was the last victim that Gacy would bury in the crawl space.

1638
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:40,480
On March 21st, Gacy lured 26 year old Jeffrey Rignal into his car and shortly after he

1639
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:45,040
entered the car, Gacy chloroformed him and drove him to his house.

1640
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,000
Once at the house, Gacy restrained the man's head and arms in a device that was attached

1641
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:52,800
to the ceiling and locked his feet into another device.

1642
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:53,800
What?

1643
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:57,840
Gacy explained to Jeffrey that he had complete control over him and that he intended to do

1644
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:02,280
whatever he wanted to him, when he wanted and how he wanted.

1645
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:07,520
He then proceeded to rape and torture Jeffrey with various instruments, including lit candles

1646
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:13,720
and whips, and repeatedly chloroformed him into unconsciousness.

1647
01:16:13,720 --> 01:16:19,200
Gacy then drove Jeffrey to Chicago's Lincoln Park where he was dumped, unconscious, but

1648
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:20,200
alive.

1649
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:21,200
Wow.

1650
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,240
Bad bitch alert.

1651
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:24,920
Wail, wail, wail.

1652
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:29,920
Jeffrey awoke at some point after this and was somehow able to stagger to his girlfriend's

1653
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:31,480
apartment.

1654
01:16:31,480 --> 01:16:35,840
Police were quickly informed of this assault, but did not investigate Gacy as Jeffrey did

1655
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:37,040
not know who he was.

1656
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:38,480
Oh, I see, okay.

1657
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,240
Jeffrey was able to recall, however, through the haze of the night, that the perpetrator

1658
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,680
who dumped him in the park was driving an old mobile.

1659
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,320
And dressed as a clown.

1660
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:47,600
Yeah, literally.

1661
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:52,560
And that he was at the corner of the Kennedy Expressway and another side street.

1662
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:56,480
So police couldn't really do much besides just like put in the corner that he looked

1663
01:16:56,480 --> 01:16:57,480
at he drives an old mobile.

1664
01:16:57,480 --> 01:17:00,600
Yeah, not canvas area, looking for the car or anything.

1665
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,920
I guess they weren't going to.

1666
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:07,920
Jeffrey took it upon himself with the help of two friends to stake out the particular

1667
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:14,080
exit of the highway that he remembered, and in April, they spotted the same old mobile,

1668
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:20,760
which he and his friends then followed to 8213 West Somerdale, Gacy's address.

1669
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:25,640
Police obtained an arrest warrant and arrested Gacy on July 15, 1978.

1670
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:31,520
However, they didn't have a warrant to search the house.

1671
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,240
So they didn't search the house.

1672
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:35,240
Jesus.

1673
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:39,240
The smell would be probable cause.

1674
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:44,720
Gacy was taken in and face trial for battery against Jeffrey by mid 1978.

1675
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:45,720
Just battery.

1676
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:46,720
I'm sorry.

1677
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:47,720
Not so any or sexual assault.

1678
01:17:47,720 --> 01:17:48,720
Oh, yeah.

1679
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:53,680
By mid 1978, the crawl space had no more room for any new bodies.

1680
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:57,960
Gacy later confessed to police that during this time he attempted to hide bodies in the

1681
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:03,960
attic, but had been worried about complications arising from decomposition and quote leakage.

1682
01:18:03,960 --> 01:18:09,680
Yeah, leakage and bloating and like when your stomach like explodes with all the bacteria

1683
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:11,000
and then you have a leaky ceiling.

1684
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:13,400
How was he not sick?

1685
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:15,840
Because they're in the basement probably.

1686
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:19,800
So because of all this, he needed another way to dispose of the bodies.

1687
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:23,320
He decided that instead of like, you know, just stopping killing people altogether,

1688
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:25,200
he just had to like plan another way.

1689
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:26,200
Yeah, that's not the problem.

1690
01:18:26,200 --> 01:18:27,200
Yeah, no problem.

1691
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:29,000
It's not lying with like how many people he's killed.

1692
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,800
It's how he disposes of them.

1693
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:31,800
Totally.

1694
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:36,280
He decided he would continue to kill and dump his victims off of the I-55 bridge into the

1695
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:38,120
Des Plaines River.

1696
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:39,120
That's not going to work.

1697
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:40,400
He wants them to stay with him.

1698
01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:43,280
The reason he's burying them in the basement is because he wants to keep them.

1699
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:44,280
Yeah.

1700
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:47,360
I mean, that's why he was getting all snuggly in a casket, right?

1701
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:51,720
So just, I don't think that's going to work out in my opinion.

1702
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:56,040
Gacy had stated that he threw a total of five bodies off of the bridge, one of which he

1703
01:18:56,040 --> 01:19:00,000
believed landed on a passing barge.

1704
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,000
Imagine that.

1705
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,120
You're like, good to f- or something.

1706
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:04,520
And you're like, what the fuck was that?

1707
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:05,520
I don't know.

1708
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:06,520
I'm sure we're fine.

1709
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:08,520
And then you show up somewhere like your destination.

1710
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:09,720
And you have a dead body.

1711
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,120
I wonder if they thought that he didn't just jump or something.

1712
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:13,240
They might have.

1713
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:17,320
The first known victim thrown from the bridge was 20-year-old Timothy O'Rourke.

1714
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:21,560
He was murdered in mid-June after leaving his apartment to buy some cigarettes.

1715
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:25,080
Shortly before he disappeared, Timothy had told his roommate that a contractor on the

1716
01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:28,680
northwest side had offered him a job.

1717
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:32,680
On November 4th, Gacy killed 19-year-old Frank Landigan.

1718
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:36,880
His nude body was found close to an inlet of the river by two duck hunters on November

1719
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:38,200
12th.

1720
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:42,920
On November 24th, a 20-year-old Elmwood Park resident, James Mazra, disappeared after

1721
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:45,960
having Thanksgiving dinner with his family.

1722
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:50,240
James had informed his sister the day before that he had gotten a job working in the construction

1723
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:52,640
industry and, quote, doing all right.

1724
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:55,480
He was propositioned by a clown to do some yard work.

1725
01:19:55,480 --> 01:20:00,720
He was last seen walking in the direction of the Bughouse Square carrying a suitcase.

1726
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:05,840
On the afternoon of December 11th, 1978, Gacy visited the Nissan Pharmacy in Des Plaines

1727
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:11,120
to discuss a potential remodeling deal with the store owner, Phil Torf.

1728
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:16,040
While he was with an earshot of 15-year-old part-time employee Robert Pist, Gacy mentioned

1729
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:21,360
that his firm often hired teenage boys at $5 an hour starting, almost double the amount

1730
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,040
that Robert was making at the pharmacy.

1731
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:27,920
Hey, yeah, I got this great business over here and I'm really looking forward to, you

1732
01:20:27,920 --> 01:20:34,560
know, hiring a young kid for, like, a billion dollars an hour.

1733
01:20:34,560 --> 01:20:38,240
Shortly after Gacy left, Robert's mother arrived at the store to drive her son home

1734
01:20:38,240 --> 01:20:41,320
so the family could celebrate her birthday together.

1735
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:46,920
Robert asked his mother to wait, adding that, quote, some contractor wants to talk to me

1736
01:20:46,920 --> 01:20:49,640
about a job.

1737
01:20:49,640 --> 01:20:55,320
He left the store at 9 p.m., promising to return shortly.

1738
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,280
Robert was murdered shortly after 10 p.m. at Gacy's home.

1739
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:02,480
Can you imagine that his mom's literally waiting for him to come back and he never comes back?

1740
01:21:02,480 --> 01:21:06,680
Gacy later stated that at his house, he asked Robert whether there was anything he, quote,

1741
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:11,160
wouldn't do for the right price, to which Robert responded that he did not mind working

1742
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:12,160
hard.

1743
01:21:12,160 --> 01:21:13,960
Fucking innocent boy.

1744
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:18,600
Gacy then used his magic trick to get Robert's hand cuff behind his back.

1745
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:23,960
Gacy told the boy, quote, I'm going to rape you and you can't do anything about it.

1746
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:29,240
Robert began to cry, obviously terrified, and Gacy tied a rope around his neck and strangled

1747
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:31,080
him.

1748
01:21:31,080 --> 01:21:35,800
As the boy was suffocating on his bedroom floor, Gacy stated that he took a work phone

1749
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:38,400
call from a business acquaintance.

1750
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:39,680
What the fuck?

1751
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:43,120
As he's dying in, like, the other room.

1752
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:44,320
That's some morbid shit.

1753
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:46,000
That's terrifying.

1754
01:21:46,000 --> 01:21:50,080
When Robert failed to return back to his mother, his family filed a missing persons report with

1755
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:52,560
the Des Plaines Police.

1756
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,760
Phil Torf named Gacy as the contractor Robert had most likely left the store with to talk

1757
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:58,960
about a job.

1758
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:03,120
Lieutenant Joseph Kozensak, whose son was actually a classmate of Robert's, chose to

1759
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:04,520
investigate Gacy further.

1760
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,440
Finally, we get an actual police name, meaning that everybody else that's been involved

1761
01:22:08,440 --> 01:22:12,760
so far is all liable for not doing shit.

1762
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:13,760
Oh yeah.

1763
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:14,760
That's what I hear.

1764
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:16,880
I hear an actual police officer's name.

1765
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:21,920
I know that they're actually going to be proactive, so I appreciate that.

1766
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:24,120
Hopefully.

1767
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:28,400
He spoke with Robert's mother on the morning of December 12th, the day after he went missing,

1768
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:32,680
and Kozensak became convinced that Robert had indeed not run away from home.

1769
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:33,680
What a guy.

1770
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:38,000
A routine background check on Gacy showed his previous prison sentence for sodomy of

1771
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:42,560
a 15-year-old boy and his current outstanding battery charge against him in Chicago.

1772
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:43,560
Wow.

1773
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:47,120
I thought just a quick Google search, not Google, but yeah.

1774
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,120
Anybody could have just looked into him a little bit more.

1775
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:52,000
Yeah, just your job.

1776
01:22:52,000 --> 01:22:53,640
Just believing it was consensual.

1777
01:22:53,640 --> 01:22:55,760
Due diligence.

1778
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:58,720
These are children we're talking about.

1779
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:03,880
Kozensak and two Des Plaines police officers visited Gacy at his home the following evening.

1780
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:07,640
Gacy had stated that he had seen two young boys working at the pharmacy, and that he

1781
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:11,760
had asked one of them, who he assumed to be Robert, whether there was any remodeling

1782
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,080
materials behind the store.

1783
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:18,200
He was adamant, however, that he had not offered Robert a job and had only returned to the

1784
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:22,360
pharmacy after 8pm as he had left his appointment book at the store.

1785
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:25,880
He's making it so much more complicated than it needs to be.

1786
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:27,880
He's like, no, I don't know who the fuck you're talking about.

1787
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:28,880
He's overlying.

1788
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:29,880
Yeah, it's true.

1789
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,120
He could just be like, maybe there's a kid that works there.

1790
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:33,120
I don't know.

1791
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:34,120
Yeah, he's probably Robert.

1792
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:38,640
He probably overheard me talking about my contacting job, but I never offered him one.

1793
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:41,280
But not, oh, I remember promptly at 8.50.

1794
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:43,200
I had to go get my pocket book.

1795
01:23:43,200 --> 01:23:47,840
My appointment book, because I had to know who was coming to stroll tomorrow.

1796
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:51,680
Gacy promised that he would go to the station later that evening to make a formal statement

1797
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:56,040
confirming this, but he could not do so right at this moment, as his uncle had just suddenly

1798
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:57,040
died.

1799
01:23:57,040 --> 01:23:59,560
Oh, wait, I just got word in my mind.

1800
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:00,560
My uncle died.

1801
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:01,560
I gotta go.

1802
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:03,080
He like, can't do it right now.

1803
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:04,080
Sorry.

1804
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:08,080
And the cops were like, okay, gotta go snuggle my dead uncle.

1805
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:09,080
Jesus.

1806
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,760
It's never going to be old.

1807
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:16,280
When questioned on how soon he could make it to the station for this report, Gacy responded,

1808
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,400
quote, you guys are very rude.

1809
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:21,840
Don't you have any respect for the dead?

1810
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:23,840
I'm fucking sorry.

1811
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:25,240
I just screamed in the microphone.

1812
01:24:25,240 --> 01:24:27,680
I'm fucking sorry.

1813
01:24:27,680 --> 01:24:31,080
Why would he get this?

1814
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,080
It gets, he's, he's bumbling.

1815
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:34,080
It gets worse.

1816
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:39,040
Oh, at 3.20 AM, Gacy arrived at the police station.

1817
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:44,160
Covered in mud, claiming that he was involved in a car accident.

1818
01:24:44,160 --> 01:24:46,440
On the way to go see my dad, uncle, I got into a car accident.

1819
01:24:46,440 --> 01:24:47,440
I'm covered in mud because I had to like.

1820
01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:48,440
I'm covered in mud.

1821
01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:49,440
Yeah.

1822
01:24:49,440 --> 01:24:51,960
That's not what happens in a car accident.

1823
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:52,960
I'm covered in mud.

1824
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:54,960
He's like clearly bearing a body.

1825
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:55,960
Yeah.

1826
01:24:55,960 --> 01:24:56,960
Exactly.

1827
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:58,960
He is a fucking shovel with him.

1828
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:00,960
Really bearing a body.

1829
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:01,960
God.

1830
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:02,960
Oh my God.

1831
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:04,560
He's got blood and mud all over himself.

1832
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:05,560
I know.

1833
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:06,560
Sorry, I'm late.

1834
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:09,280
I just had to kill someone real quick, literally.

1835
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:13,000
Gacy denied any involvement in the disappearance of Robert and repeated that he did not offer

1836
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,160
him a job.

1837
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:18,080
When he asked, when asked why he returned to the pharmacy, he stated he had done so in

1838
01:25:18,080 --> 01:25:22,880
response to a phone call from Phil Torf informing Gacy that he had left his appointment book

1839
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:24,040
there.

1840
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:28,480
Detectives had already spoken with Phil, who denied that he called Gacy at all.

1841
01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:32,400
At the request of detectives, Gacy prepared a written statement detailing what he claimed

1842
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,480
to have done on December 11th.

1843
01:25:35,480 --> 01:25:40,000
Assume that Gacy may be holding Robert captive at his home, they put in a request for a search

1844
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,120
warrant of Gacy's home on December 13th.

1845
01:25:42,120 --> 01:25:48,120
But why, if they thought that maybe this guy had him captive there, then why wouldn't

1846
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:50,040
they just go inside the house?

1847
01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,720
Yeah, or why would they be like, okay, yeah, well, go ahead and let you leave, but make

1848
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:56,400
sure to come to the station later if they think he might be in their home.

1849
01:25:56,400 --> 01:25:57,400
Exactly.

1850
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:58,400
Yeah.

1851
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,000
He just gave him time to kill him in Barriam, apparently.

1852
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,760
The search warrant was accepted, which is awesome.

1853
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:08,320
So the search of Gacy's home revealed several suspicious items, including several police

1854
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:14,120
badges, a six millimeter starter pistol inside a drawer, as well as a syringe and hypodermic

1855
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,200
needles inside a cabinet in the bathroom.

1856
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:21,360
Investigators also found handcuffs and several books on homosexuality and petristy, which

1857
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:24,600
is, of course, children, like porn.

1858
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:33,320
Also in the home, seven porn, seven, seven pornographic novels.

1859
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:40,160
Several pornographic films, capsules of amyl nitrate in an 18 inch dildo, a two by four

1860
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:45,480
with holes drilled into each end, bottles of valium and atropine, and several driver's

1861
01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:47,200
licenses.

1862
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:49,440
The driver's licenses should be like the fucking straw that we're capable of.

1863
01:26:49,440 --> 01:26:50,440
It's just a list.

1864
01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:53,360
Yeah, it's essentially a list of his victims.

1865
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:58,400
A blue hooded parka was found on top of a toolbox inside the laundry room, and underwear

1866
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:03,720
too small to fit Gacy's fat ass were located in the bathroom closet.

1867
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:04,720
That's not a direct quote.

1868
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:07,160
No, it's not, but I loved it.

1869
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:14,560
Lastly, in the Northwest bedroom, investigators found a class of 1975, Maine West High School

1870
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:20,920
ring engraved with the initials JAS, which is not done by Gacy, as well as a Nissan

1871
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:26,160
pharmacy photo receipt showing the purchase of a trash can and nylon rope from the pharmacy.

1872
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:30,480
The Des Plaines police confiscated Gacy's old automobile and all of his work vehicles

1873
01:27:30,480 --> 01:27:34,400
in order to prevent him from fleeing easily, at least.

1874
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:39,640
Police also assigned two two man surveillance teams to monitor Gacy on rotational 12 hour

1875
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:42,680
basis as they continued their investigation into his background.

1876
01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:43,680
Where's he staying?

1877
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:44,680
Like a hotel or something?

1878
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:49,520
No, he's well, the search already was over and he's back at home after they returned

1879
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:50,760
him to his home.

1880
01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:55,720
They have people on 12 hour rotational surveillance because they can't arrest him for anything

1881
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:56,720
just yet.

1882
01:27:56,720 --> 01:27:57,720
Everything's circumstantial.

1883
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:02,040
Okay, if you think that a person is missing, wouldn't you check a fucking basement or an

1884
01:28:02,040 --> 01:28:03,040
attic?

1885
01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:04,040
Yeah.

1886
01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:05,040
Yeah.

1887
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:06,040
Why?

1888
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:08,320
So they're still looking into his background and while they're doing so, they have him

1889
01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:12,920
on surveillance to make sure he's not doing anything sus, right?

1890
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:21,320
Well, part of these surveillance teams, officers Mike Albrecht and David Hackmeister and Ronald

1891
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:23,160
Robison and Robert Schultz.

1892
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:24,880
So those are the two sets of people.

1893
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:26,480
Dummy's that haven't checked the basement.

1894
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:29,720
Well, they're not the ones that are supposed to be the they were the ones that are just

1895
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:30,720
surveillance.

1896
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:31,720
They haven't been.

1897
01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:32,720
I don't think they were involved in the search at all.

1898
01:28:32,720 --> 01:28:33,720
Okay.

1899
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:34,720
Well, who was the other guy that you said earlier?

1900
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:36,400
He needed to check just to wait.

1901
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:37,400
I'm getting indignant.

1902
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:38,400
I'm pissed.

1903
01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:43,000
The following day after their investigation began, Michael Rossi phone police.

1904
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:46,520
So the old guy, the second guy that lived with him just for the listeners, if you forgot

1905
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:51,920
because his long names Michael Rossi phone police and informed them of Gregory God 6 disappearance

1906
01:28:51,920 --> 01:28:56,960
and the fact that another PDM employee Charles Hattula had been found drowned in an Illinois

1907
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,440
River earlier that year.

1908
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:02,600
Kind of like hinting that there's something going on with the employees of the police.

1909
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:03,600
Right.

1910
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:04,600
Yeah.

1911
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:07,040
Check and look into the employees and see how many people have done this.

1912
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:11,560
On December 15th, Des Plaines investigators obtained further details of Gacy's battery

1913
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:12,560
charge.

1914
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:16,680
They learned that Jeffrey Rignol, the complainant, had reported that Gacy had lured him into

1915
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:21,640
his car, then chloroformed, raped and tortured him before dumping him with severe chest and

1916
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,960
facial burns and rectal bleeding.

1917
01:29:24,960 --> 01:29:29,000
In an interview with Gacy's former wife Carol the same day, they learned of the disappearance

1918
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:31,080
of John Butkovich.

1919
01:29:31,080 --> 01:29:35,400
Along with these shocking discoveries, police also traced the Maine West High School ring

1920
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,600
to John Allen Schites.

1921
01:29:38,600 --> 01:29:42,000
An interview with John's mother revealed that several items were actually missing from

1922
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:46,200
her son's apartment, including a Motorola TV set.

1923
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:51,600
By December 16th, Gacy realized that he needed to do something to win over the police.

1924
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:56,160
So, he began being really friendly with the surveillance detectives that were tasked with

1925
01:29:56,160 --> 01:29:57,160
watching him.

1926
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:58,160
Bringing him donuts and coffee and stuff.

1927
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:01,880
He would invite them in for meals, or not in his house, but he would invite them to

1928
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,480
go with him to a restaurant and go eat meals.

1929
01:30:04,480 --> 01:30:09,520
Occasionally for drinks at the bar, they can't fucking drink, you dumbass.

1930
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:13,520
He would repeatedly deny any involvement in Robert's disappearance while he had the company

1931
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:14,520
of the officers.

1932
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:20,600
He actually accused the officers of harassing him because of his political connections or

1933
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:24,000
because of his occasional recreational drug use.

1934
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,600
He's like shooting stuff in the foot.

1935
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:28,400
Sometimes I enjoy a little bit of LSD.

1936
01:30:28,400 --> 01:30:30,600
And you're just harassing me because of that.

1937
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:32,200
You're just harassing God.

1938
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:36,740
Knowing the officers would be unlikely to arrest him for anything petty, he would also frequently

1939
01:30:36,740 --> 01:30:41,520
evade police by breaking like minor traffic laws, and was actually successful like multiple

1940
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:42,520
times.

1941
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:47,920
I mean, I don't want to arrest him for a traffic law, and then he gets released.

1942
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,480
They want to wait till they have something that they can really book him and nab him

1943
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:55,040
in and then have something solid.

1944
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:58,560
On the afternoon of December 16th, David Cram, we all remember him.

1945
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,080
He was the first young man that was staying with Gacy.

1946
01:31:01,080 --> 01:31:04,480
He consented to be interviewed by detectives regarding Gacy.

1947
01:31:04,480 --> 01:31:09,840
He described Gacy's hardworking lifestyle and open-minded attitude about sex with men.

1948
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:14,400
David also revealed that because he had a problem with time management, Gacy gifted

1949
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:19,400
him a watch, saying that he got it from, quote, a dead person.

1950
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:21,680
Fucking excuse me?

1951
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:22,680
Yeah.

1952
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:23,680
Fucking what?

1953
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:25,840
Whose watch is that?

1954
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:29,520
Investigators conducted a formal interview with Michael Rossi on December 17th when he

1955
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:34,080
informed them that Gacy had sold John Scheitz's vehicle to him, explaining that he bought

1956
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,440
the car because John was moving to California.

1957
01:31:36,440 --> 01:31:40,840
Gacy's car was also searched at this time, and investigators discovered a small cluster

1958
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:45,280
of fibers in the trunk of his car that they suspected to be human hair.

1959
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:50,000
Furthermore, police had three German shepherd dogs assist in a search to determine whether

1960
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:54,680
or not Robert Peist had been in or around Gacy's personal car.

1961
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:57,680
Use the dogs in the fucking house.

1962
01:31:57,680 --> 01:31:59,240
What is going on here?

1963
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:00,240
Why?

1964
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:01,920
So the search of the house has already been completed.

1965
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:02,920
No.

1966
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:03,920
They're not going back just yet.

1967
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:04,920
No.

1968
01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:05,920
There's bodies there.

1969
01:32:05,920 --> 01:32:06,920
Why is that?

1970
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:08,680
I don't understand.

1971
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,920
One dog approached the old automobile and laid on the passenger seat in what the handler's

1972
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:18,360
informed investigators was a quote, death reaction, indicating that Robert's deceased

1973
01:32:18,360 --> 01:32:20,440
body had been present in the vehicle.

1974
01:32:20,440 --> 01:32:22,440
Take the dog to the house.

1975
01:32:22,440 --> 01:32:23,440
Why?

1976
01:32:23,440 --> 01:32:24,440
I'm pissed.

1977
01:32:24,440 --> 01:32:25,440
I'm pissed.

1978
01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:32,560
That evening, Gacy invited detectives Albrecht and Hackmeister to a restaurant for a meal,

1979
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,720
and in the early hours of December 18th, he invited them to a different restaurant for

1980
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,280
breakfast.

1981
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:42,520
During the second meal, the three discussed Gacy's business, his marriages, and his activities

1982
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,760
as a registered clown.

1983
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:51,800
At one point during the conversation, Gacy said to detectives, quote, you know, clowns

1984
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:53,800
can get away with murder.

1985
01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:55,800
Fucking dumbass.

1986
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:59,080
What is wrong with-?

1987
01:32:59,080 --> 01:33:03,280
At this point, Gacy was beginning to noticeably display signs of strain from the constant

1988
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:04,360
surveillance.

1989
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:08,560
He was unshaven, looking tired, appeared anxious, and he was heavily drinking.

1990
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:09,560
Wow.

1991
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:12,280
Because he was nervous, he was going to get cut.

1992
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:14,880
It's just like not a matter of like if, it's a matter of when.

1993
01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:15,880
Yeah, pretty much.

1994
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:18,440
Because I'm sure like at a certain point he was like, oh, it's going to be like a few

1995
01:33:18,440 --> 01:33:21,400
days and then just like not going to give a shit anymore.

1996
01:33:21,400 --> 01:33:26,080
But now it's like, oh wait, they're not going away until they get stuff, you know?

1997
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:27,080
Yeah, for sure.

1998
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,000
Until they get, until they get a reason.

1999
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:32,120
They have something that they are looking for.

2000
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:38,440
That same afternoon, December 18th, he went to his lawyer's office to prepare a $750,000

2001
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:42,960
civil suit against the Des Plaines Police Department, demanding that they stop all

2002
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:44,600
surveillance.

2003
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:48,760
During the time he was gone, police had matched the serial number of the Nissen Pharmacy photo

2004
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:56,000
receipt found in his kitchen to 17-year-old Kimberly Byers, a colleague of Robert Pice.

2005
01:33:56,000 --> 01:34:00,200
Police went to interview Kimberly the following day, who stated that she was wearing a jacket

2006
01:34:00,200 --> 01:34:05,000
borrowed from Robert the day he went missing, and placed the receipt in the pocket of it

2007
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:09,560
just before handing it back to him, who needed it because a contractor had wanted to speak

2008
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:11,060
with him.

2009
01:34:11,060 --> 01:34:14,680
This statement had contradicted Gacy's that he did not have any contact with Robert on

2010
01:34:14,680 --> 01:34:16,360
December 11th.

2011
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:21,240
The same evening, December 19th, investigators interviewed Michael Rossi a second time, and

2012
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:24,040
this time he was much more cooperative.

2013
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:29,560
He told detectives that in the summer of 1977, at Gacy's request, he had spread 10 bags

2014
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:32,960
of lime in the crawl space of Gacy's house.

2015
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:37,320
Hearing this, investigators immediately went to file for a second search warrant of Gacy's

2016
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:38,320
home.

2017
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:39,320
They're like, oh, you have a basement?

2018
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:41,200
Yeah, I didn't think about that one.

2019
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:42,560
Did they check?

2020
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:44,560
Just wait.

2021
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:49,200
Ironically, at around the same time, Gacy's lawyers filed the civil suit against the Des

2022
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:53,640
Plaines Police, in which the hearing was scheduled for December 22nd, so they only

2023
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:57,360
had like three days before they had to stop surveillance.

2024
01:34:57,360 --> 01:35:01,720
So investigators showed up at Gacy's house with their second warrant search.

2025
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:06,040
Gacy invited them in, and Officer Robinson distracted him with conversation while Officer

2026
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:11,880
Schultz walked into Gacy's bedroom and attempted to write down the Motorola TV serial number

2027
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:13,960
they suspected had belonged to John Sheets.

2028
01:35:13,960 --> 01:35:14,960
Okay.

2029
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:17,160
I didn't know that Motorola made TVs.

2030
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:19,000
Yeah, I think so.

2031
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:20,000
I think they used to.

2032
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:21,000
They do phones.

2033
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:22,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2034
01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:25,280
For unknown reasons, he was unable to find the serial number either.

2035
01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:29,400
He couldn't like find it in time, like he got interrupted or he couldn't find it at

2036
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:33,200
all on the TV, so he didn't get to write it down.

2037
01:35:33,200 --> 01:35:38,520
While in the bathroom, Schultz flushed the toilet and noticed a smell that was eerily

2038
01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:43,240
similar to that of a rotting corpse coming from a heating duct.

2039
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:47,880
The officers who had conducted the first search of Gacy's home failed to notice the smell

2040
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:52,520
as the house had been very cold at the time of their search.

2041
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:56,920
Officers interviewed both David Cram and Michael Rossi again on December 20th.

2042
01:35:56,920 --> 01:36:01,200
When questioned by Officer Kozensak as to where he believed Gacy had concealed Robert

2043
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:06,280
Pice's body, Michael replied that Gacy may have placed his body in the crawl space underneath

2044
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:11,600
his home, and also added that he thought John Sheets' car was stolen.

2045
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:15,160
Michael agreed to take a polygraph test, and he denied any involvement or knowledge about

2046
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,160
the disappearance of Robert.

2047
01:36:17,160 --> 01:36:20,480
Michael was clearly nervous, as had this been the third time he was being interviewed about

2048
01:36:20,480 --> 01:36:24,360
Gacy, and he obviously knew more than he told them originally.

2049
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:27,720
This being the case, the polygraph results were inconclusive to whether or not he was

2050
01:36:27,720 --> 01:36:32,640
lying or telling the truth, and the whole thing ended up being scrapped.

2051
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:36,240
Although they could not use any of this, Michael did not end the interview without first discussing

2052
01:36:36,240 --> 01:36:41,680
the trench digging he did in the crawl space for Gacy, and he also noted that he did not

2053
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:48,320
dig anywhere he wasn't instructed to do so, as Gacy made sure of the guidelines.

2054
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:51,800
David was also present for this interview, and he decided to inform police of everything

2055
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:53,320
he knew as well.

2056
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:57,340
He started with the fact that Gacy attempted to rape him in 1976.

2057
01:36:57,340 --> 01:37:01,760
He also stated that after he and Gacy had returned to his home after the December 13th

2058
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:06,520
search of the property, Gacy had turned pale white when he saw mud on his carpet, which

2059
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,360
he suspected came from the crawl space.

2060
01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:14,080
David went on to say that Gacy grabbed a flashlight and immediately entered the crawl space to

2061
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:16,240
look for evidence of digging.

2062
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:20,120
When asked whether or not David had been down there, he stated that Gacy had once asked

2063
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:24,920
him to spread lime down there and also dig trenches, which Gacy explained were for drainage

2064
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:26,320
pipes.

2065
01:37:26,320 --> 01:37:31,120
The damning thing about these trenches, however, David explained, they were two feet wide and

2066
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:32,720
six feet long.

2067
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:35,000
The exact size of a grave.

2068
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:39,560
On the evening of December 20th, Gacy went to his lawyer, Sam Emerante's office in

2069
01:37:39,560 --> 01:37:44,280
Park Ridge to attend a scheduled meeting about the progress of his lawsuit.

2070
01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:48,360
Upon his arrival, Gacy appeared disheveled and immediately asked for a drink to which

2071
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:52,120
the lawyer grabbed a bottle of whiskey from his car for him.

2072
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:56,080
Upon his return, Sam asked Gacy what he needed to discuss.

2073
01:37:56,080 --> 01:38:00,160
Gacy picked up a copy of the Daily Herald from Sam's desk, pointed to a front page

2074
01:38:00,160 --> 01:38:05,640
article covering the disappearance of Robert Pist and said, quote, this boy is dead.

2075
01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:06,640
He's dead.

2076
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:07,640
He's in a river.

2077
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:08,640
To his lawyer?

2078
01:38:08,640 --> 01:38:09,640
Oh God.

2079
01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:10,720
That's you, Q-Ball.

2080
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:11,720
His lawyer?

2081
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:14,720
His lawyer?

2082
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:18,320
I know this is wild.

2083
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:22,400
Gacy proceeded to spill his guts in a rambling confession that lasted well into the next

2084
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:23,400
morning.

2085
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:24,400
How long was it?

2086
01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:28,000
I mean, I can't tell exactly when he went over there and when he left, but it was like

2087
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:29,000
clearly long enough.

2088
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:30,000
It was like all night.

2089
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:31,000
Yeah.

2090
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:35,800
He told his lawyer and another witness that he had, quote, been the judge, jury, and executioner

2091
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:42,800
of many, many people and that he now wanted to be the same thing for himself.

2092
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:47,560
He went on to say that he murdered, quote, at least 30 people, most of whom he had buried

2093
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:52,120
in his crawl space under the home and five others he had disposed of in the Des Plaines

2094
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:54,040
River.

2095
01:38:54,040 --> 01:38:59,080
During his confession, Gacy referred to his victims as, quote, male prostitutes, hustlers

2096
01:38:59,080 --> 01:39:05,040
and liars, to whom he gave, quote, the rope trick and adding that he would sometimes wake

2097
01:39:05,040 --> 01:39:10,920
up to find, quote, dead, strangled kids on his floor with their hands cuffed behind their

2098
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:11,920
backs.

2099
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:12,920
What?

2100
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:15,240
I would just wake up to find people murdered in my house.

2101
01:39:15,240 --> 01:39:16,240
Yeah.

2102
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:17,240
Like I'm blacked out.

2103
01:39:17,240 --> 01:39:18,240
That's normal.

2104
01:39:18,240 --> 01:39:19,240
Yeah, shit.

2105
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:20,240
That's normal.

2106
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:23,160
He had buried the victims in the crawl space as he believed that since they died in his

2107
01:39:23,160 --> 01:39:24,840
home that they were his property.

2108
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:30,280
So you were really on point earlier when you said that.

2109
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,600
All the while during his confession, Gacy was drinking heavily and about halfway through

2110
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:37,600
his speech, he ended up falling asleep.

2111
01:39:37,600 --> 01:39:41,360
Did they supply him with, I mean they would had to have supplied him with alcohol at that

2112
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:42,360
point.

2113
01:39:42,360 --> 01:39:44,120
Yeah, that was the whiskey that the lawyer brought in.

2114
01:39:44,120 --> 01:39:45,120
Yeah.

2115
01:39:45,120 --> 01:39:46,120
But I guess it was a full bottle.

2116
01:39:46,120 --> 01:39:48,000
But he was able to fucking pass out.

2117
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:49,000
Insane.

2118
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:53,920
While Gacy was asleep, his lawyers, Sam Amarante, had arranged for a psychiatric appointment

2119
01:39:53,920 --> 01:39:57,680
for Gacy at 9 AM, a few hours from the time that he had passed out.

2120
01:39:57,680 --> 01:39:58,680
When he was wasted.

2121
01:39:58,680 --> 01:39:59,680
Yeah.

2122
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:00,680
Cute.

2123
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:04,200
Gacy woke up several hours later and his lawyer informed him of the alarming confession

2124
01:40:04,200 --> 01:40:08,840
he spoke of while intoxicated, hoping that he would recant his words or say he was just

2125
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:10,920
playing around.

2126
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:15,680
When Gacy heard this, he shook his head and stated, quote, well I can't think about this

2127
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:18,360
right now, I've got things to do.

2128
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:19,360
Gotta go.

2129
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:21,360
I have to run some errands.

2130
01:40:21,360 --> 01:40:23,200
I'll be back.

2131
01:40:23,200 --> 01:40:27,360
Amarante told Gacy that he booked him an appointment with a psychiatrist, but Gacy declined to go

2132
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:30,640
and instead went to go tend to his business.

2133
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:31,640
I have a business to run.

2134
01:40:31,640 --> 01:40:32,640
I gotta go.

2135
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:33,640
Literally.

2136
01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:34,640
I'm talking out of here.

2137
01:40:34,640 --> 01:40:36,280
Five o'clock shadow, greasy hair.

2138
01:40:36,280 --> 01:40:37,280
I got a business to run.

2139
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:39,840
Full of mud.

2140
01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:43,760
After leaving the lawyer's office, Gacy drove to a gas station where he walked into the

2141
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:49,160
store and handed the cashier a small bag of marijuana, stating to him, quote, the end

2142
01:40:49,160 --> 01:40:50,560
is coming for me.

2143
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:53,560
These guys are going to kill me.

2144
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:56,880
Gacy then drove to a friend's house by the name of Ronald Road.

2145
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:01,440
Surveillance officers watched as Gacy hugged his friend and burst into tears.

2146
01:41:01,440 --> 01:41:06,640
What officers could not hear was Gacy stating to his friend, quote, I've been a bad boy.

2147
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:08,280
I killed 30 people.

2148
01:41:08,280 --> 01:41:10,400
Give or take a few.

2149
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:14,600
Gacy then left Ronald's home and drove to David Cram's house to meet with him and Michael

2150
01:41:14,600 --> 01:41:15,680
Rossi.

2151
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:20,560
As he drove along the highway, officers noticed that he was holding a rosary to his chin,

2152
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,920
praying while he drove, because of course they're still surveilling him.

2153
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:28,840
After a long talk with David and Michael, Gacy had David drive him to a scheduled meeting

2154
01:41:28,840 --> 01:41:34,160
with lawyer Leroy Stevens, and as he had this meeting with him, David informed the surveillance

2155
01:41:34,160 --> 01:41:39,880
officers that Gacy confessed to killing over 30 young men to his lawyers the previous evening.

2156
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:45,480
So Gacy had gone and then told Michael, that's the man, Sam, Michael and David the same thing.

2157
01:41:45,480 --> 01:41:50,040
After his meeting with this lawyer, Gacy had David drive him to Mary Hill Cemetery where

2158
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:54,320
his father was buried, seemingly to say goodbye.

2159
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:59,080
Gacy continued to go to multiple places that morning while police outlined the formal draft

2160
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:03,720
of their second warrant search in which they were specifically going to search for Robert

2161
01:42:03,720 --> 01:42:05,400
Pice's body.

2162
01:42:05,400 --> 01:42:07,080
So another search for the house.

2163
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:12,200
Well, okay, so that makes a little bit more sense that if they were to get a search warrant,

2164
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:15,640
that they could only search like the common areas instead.

2165
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:19,840
And now they're like, okay, well, this specific warrant states that we are trying to locate

2166
01:42:19,840 --> 01:42:22,360
this person.

2167
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:26,400
Due to Gacy going to many places and saying goodbye, they feared that he may be going to

2168
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:29,840
commit suicide and they informed the department.

2169
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:33,640
Officers decided to arrest him on a charge of possession and distribution of cannabis

2170
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:38,120
from the gas station in order to hold him in custody while they finalized their warrants

2171
01:42:38,120 --> 01:42:40,040
and their records.

2172
01:42:40,040 --> 01:42:43,560
After police informed Gacy of their intentions to search his crawl space for the body of

2173
01:42:43,560 --> 01:42:49,720
Robert, Gacy denied that the teen was buried there, but confessed to having killed in self-defense

2174
01:42:49,720 --> 01:42:53,160
a young man whose body was buried under his garage.

2175
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:55,400
So I guess he was trying to be like, okay, well, he's not there, but if you just find

2176
01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:57,080
this one body, then like, that's fine.

2177
01:42:57,080 --> 01:42:59,360
The Maldives, yeah.

2178
01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:02,680
Armed with yet another search warrant, this time for the crawl space, police and evidence

2179
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:05,480
texts drove back to Gacy's home.

2180
01:43:05,480 --> 01:43:10,320
Upon their arrival, officers noted that Gacy had unplugged his sump pump, which flooded

2181
01:43:10,320 --> 01:43:12,960
the crawl space with water.

2182
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:16,680
Because of this, officers had to replace the plug and wait for it to drain, but obviously

2183
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:19,680
this tainted some of the evidence.

2184
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:23,560
After it was cleared, evidence technician Daniel Gentry entered the crawl space and began

2185
01:43:23,560 --> 01:43:28,080
digging, uncovering putrified flesh and a human arm bone within minutes.

2186
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:32,320
Well, I'm sure with the flooding and stuff, some things are gonna float.

2187
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:36,080
Daniel immediately shouted to investigators that they should charge Gacy with murder,

2188
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:39,680
adding, quote, I think this place is full of kids.

2189
01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:40,680
Isn't that awful?

2190
01:43:40,680 --> 01:43:43,480
Oh my gosh, that quote.

2191
01:43:43,480 --> 01:43:48,200
More people joined in the digging and shortly uncovered a patella and two lower leg bones.

2192
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:51,760
However, they quickly knew these could not have been Roberts as their remains were too

2193
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:53,400
decomposed.

2194
01:43:53,400 --> 01:43:58,120
As one body discovered in the northeast corner was unearthed, another tech discovered the

2195
01:43:58,120 --> 01:44:01,440
skull of a second victim alongside it.

2196
01:44:01,440 --> 01:44:06,080
When later excavations of this body were performed, as they were revealing the feet, they noticed

2197
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:08,400
a third skull beneath it.

2198
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:12,480
After this, a fourth body discovered, and police very quickly realized this was going

2199
01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:14,000
to be a theme.

2200
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:17,480
Every single body being discovered is laid out online, but it was way too much to put

2201
01:44:17,480 --> 01:44:20,720
in here, so that's why I just cut it right there.

2202
01:44:20,720 --> 01:44:24,080
Gacy was informed by police that they had found human remains in his crawl space and

2203
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:26,800
he was now going to be charged with murder.

2204
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:30,640
Responding to this, Gacy told officers that he wanted to, quote, clear the air, adding

2205
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:35,000
that he knew his arrest was inevitable since he confessed the previous evening to his lawyer.

2206
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:36,320
So it's like his choice now.

2207
01:44:36,320 --> 01:44:37,320
I confess.

2208
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:38,320
You're not arresting me.

2209
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:39,640
Like you didn't catch me.

2210
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:42,120
I confessed.

2211
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:46,040
On the early morning of December 22nd and in the presence of his lawyers, Gacy provided

2212
01:44:46,040 --> 01:44:50,400
a formal statement in which he confessed to murdering approximately 30 young males, all

2213
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:53,040
of whom he claimed entered his house willingly.

2214
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:55,640
So annoying.

2215
01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:59,440
Although some of his victims were referred to by name, Gacy could not recall every name

2216
01:44:59,440 --> 01:45:00,840
of his victims.

2217
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:05,400
He claimed all were teenage male runaways or male prostitutes, the majority of whom he

2218
01:45:05,400 --> 01:45:06,840
had buried in his crawl space.

2219
01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:11,760
That's just like, ugh, like, if you're gonna kill people, like at least have the decency.

2220
01:45:11,760 --> 01:45:12,760
Yeah.

2221
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:14,280
To like, tell the truth.

2222
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:16,400
Well, to know their name.

2223
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:17,400
You know what I mean?

2224
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:19,640
Not that he's owed anything or whatever.

2225
01:45:19,640 --> 01:45:21,960
It's like, you know, I don't know.

2226
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,360
I just always thought that way about serial killers.

2227
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:27,520
It's like, oh, it's just like a no name.

2228
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:31,040
And it's like, you didn't even care to ask the dude's name.

2229
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:32,040
Yeah.

2230
01:45:32,040 --> 01:45:33,040
Like, come on.

2231
01:45:33,040 --> 01:45:34,840
Because they don't think of them as people.

2232
01:45:34,840 --> 01:45:35,840
They don't.

2233
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:40,000
He also added that he himself had only dug five graves but had multiple employees of

2234
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:46,640
his, including Gregory Godsick, dig the others so that he would quote, have graves available.

2235
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:47,640
Just in case.

2236
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:48,640
Just on a whim.

2237
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:49,640
Just in case.

2238
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:50,640
Yeah.

2239
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:51,640
You know.

2240
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:53,360
Gacy finished this confession stating that he had planned to conceal the corpses even

2241
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:58,680
further in the following January, 1979, by covering the crawl space with concrete.

2242
01:45:58,680 --> 01:45:59,680
Oh, he did.

2243
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:01,240
So if they, no, he was planning on it.

2244
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:02,240
Oh, he was planning on it.

2245
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:04,280
So if they had gone to him after that, they might not have been able to.

2246
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:06,760
They wouldn't even have known.

2247
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:10,840
In questions specifically about Robert Pist, Gacy confessed to luring him to his house and

2248
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:12,800
strangling him on December 11th.

2249
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:17,040
He also admitted that after he killed Robert, he slept next to his body before disposing

2250
01:46:17,040 --> 01:46:22,320
of him into the Des Plaines River in the early hours of December 13th.

2251
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:27,200
Accompanied by police, his lawyers and his older sister actually, Gacy was driven to the

2252
01:46:27,200 --> 01:46:31,920
I-55 bridge on December 23rd to show them the precise spot where he threw Robert's

2253
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:34,960
body and four others into the river.

2254
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:38,920
He was then taken to his house and instructed to mark his garage floor with spray paint

2255
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:42,760
to show where he had buried the individual he claimed to have killed himself to fence.

2256
01:46:42,760 --> 01:46:44,560
This is John Budkovich.

2257
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:48,160
To assist officers in their search for the victims buried underneath his house, Gacy

2258
01:46:48,160 --> 01:46:52,320
drew a rough diagram of his basement layout and where the bodies were buried.

2259
01:46:52,320 --> 01:46:57,520
26 bodies were unearthed from the crawl space over the next week, and three others were

2260
01:46:57,520 --> 01:47:00,400
also unearthed from other locations on the property.

2261
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:04,800
I think if I recall correctly, I'm pretty sure when he drew those out, he knew a

2262
01:47:04,800 --> 01:47:08,520
few exactly who was on top of who or how many were on, because there was some that

2263
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:14,400
were like double stacked or triple stacked, and he knew like in this slot there's three,

2264
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:17,800
in this slot there's one, in this slot there's two and so on and so forth.

2265
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:21,320
Like couldn't use that knowledge and that like like...

2266
01:47:21,320 --> 01:47:22,920
He tried, it wasn't satisfying enough.

2267
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:23,920
Thank you for good.

2268
01:47:23,920 --> 01:47:24,920
For him.

2269
01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:29,520
Cook County Medical Examiner Robert Stein supervised the exhumations in which each victim

2270
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:34,320
was placed in a body bag and at the front door awaiting transportation to the mortuary.

2271
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:38,600
Each body was numbered depending on sections of the crawl space they were found in, and

2272
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:42,480
again you can find the entire list of numbered bodies online, but for time's sake, I'm not

2273
01:47:42,480 --> 01:47:44,080
going to name them all here.

2274
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:48,280
The search for victims was postponed temporarily over Christmas, and on December 26th they

2275
01:47:48,280 --> 01:47:50,200
resumed the exhumations.

2276
01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:54,800
On December 27th, eight more bodies were discovered, bringing the number up to 19.

2277
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:59,320
By December 29th, the number grew again to 26 bodies found, each of the victims being

2278
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:04,240
different in some way, MO, position, what was done, etc.

2279
01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:08,600
Shortly after his arrest, Gacy informed investigators that after he had assaulted and then released

2280
01:48:08,600 --> 01:48:14,840
Jeffrey Rignal in March 1978, he began to throw his victims into the Des Plaines River.

2281
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:19,280
He confessed to having disposed of five bodies in this manner, but only four were found.

2282
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:22,960
When asked if there was more victims, Gacy responded, quote, that's for you guys to

2283
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:23,960
find out.

2284
01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:24,960
No, there wasn't.

2285
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:25,960
He's just a pussy.

2286
01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:27,960
No, there was not.

2287
01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:28,960
Okay.

2288
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:32,440
Around the beginning of the year, Chicago faced a history-making blizzard causing the

2289
01:48:32,440 --> 01:48:34,840
investigators to halt their search.

2290
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:39,760
Gacy was insisting that all victims had been found, but in March of 1979, investigators

2291
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:42,600
returned to the Gacy home to continue looking.

2292
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:48,240
On March 9th, body 28 was found, and on March 16th, body 29 was discovered.

2293
01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:54,160
Of all the victims found at 82-13 West Somerdale, they were in an advanced state of decomposition,

2294
01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:58,200
but dental records and X-ray charts helped Stein identify the remains.

2295
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:03,360
23 victims were identified via dental records, with two further victims identified via skeletal

2296
01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:04,560
trauma.

2297
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:09,200
These identifications were also supported with personal items in Gacy's home.

2298
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:12,800
After police were sure that the search was over, they concluded, and the Gacy house was

2299
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:16,360
demolished in April 1979.

2300
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:22,640
A victim found six miles downstream from the I-55 bridge in January 1979 was not initially

2301
01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:27,440
connected to Gacy, but later was making this victim number 31.

2302
01:49:27,440 --> 01:49:31,280
On December 28th, one further body linked to Gacy was found a mile from the bridge,

2303
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:33,120
that's James Mazura.

2304
01:49:33,120 --> 01:49:38,680
On April 9th, 1979, a man walking along a Grundy County towpath discovered a decomposed

2305
01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:43,080
body entangled in exposed roots on the edge of the river and called police.

2306
01:49:43,080 --> 01:49:46,760
The body was identified via dental records at the Robert Pist the same evening, bringing

2307
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:49,120
Gacy's count to 33 victims.

2308
01:49:49,120 --> 01:49:54,000
Gacy was brought to trial on February 6th, 1980, being charged with 33 murders.

2309
01:49:54,000 --> 01:49:59,080
He was tried in Cook County, Illinois before Judge Louis Garrippo, but the jury was selected

2310
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:03,440
from Rockford because of the extensive press coverage in Cook County.

2311
01:50:03,440 --> 01:50:07,840
At the request of his defense counsel, Gacy spent over 300 hours with doctors at the Menard

2312
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:10,920
Correctional Center in Chester the year before his trial.

2313
01:50:10,920 --> 01:50:14,880
He underwent a variety of psychological tests before a panel of psychiatrists to determine

2314
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:18,000
whether he was mentally competent to stand trial.

2315
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:22,720
Gacy attempted to convince the doctors that he had multiple personality disorder, which

2316
01:50:22,720 --> 01:50:24,960
we now know is DID.

2317
01:50:24,960 --> 01:50:30,560
He claimed to have four different personalities, the hardworking, civic-minded contractor, the

2318
01:50:30,560 --> 01:50:36,360
clown, the active politician, and a policeman called Jack Hanley, whom he referred to as

2319
01:50:36,360 --> 01:50:39,880
quote, bad Jack.

2320
01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:44,440
When Gacy had confessed to police, he claimed to be relaying the crimes of Jack, who detested

2321
01:50:44,440 --> 01:50:50,080
homosexuality and who viewed male prostitutes as weak, stupid, and degraded scum.

2322
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:51,080
That was a quote.

2323
01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:54,320
The thing is, when he was trying to convince his professionals that he was suffering from

2324
01:50:54,320 --> 01:51:00,600
DID, he would pretend to be Jack and then come back as John and then recall things that

2325
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:04,480
happened when Jack was around, which we now know would not actually happen if you had

2326
01:51:04,480 --> 01:51:05,480
DID.

2327
01:51:05,480 --> 01:51:09,360
If you haven't listened to the DID episode, go listen, because that's not how that works.

2328
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:13,820
Gacy's lawyers opted to have him plead not guilty by reason of insanity to the charges

2329
01:51:13,820 --> 01:51:15,240
against him.

2330
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:20,200
Presenting him as a Jekyll and Hyde character, the defense produced several psychiatric experts

2331
01:51:20,200 --> 01:51:22,120
who had examined Gacy.

2332
01:51:22,120 --> 01:51:25,880
Three psychiatric experts at Gacy's trial testified that they found him to be a paranoid

2333
01:51:25,880 --> 01:51:29,000
schizophrenic with multiple personalities.

2334
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:33,480
Three experts are trying to say that he has that, even though they know it's a farce.

2335
01:51:33,480 --> 01:51:37,040
And just because they're part of the defense.

2336
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:41,160
The prosecution presented the case that Gacy was indeed sane and in full control of his

2337
01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:46,200
actions and produced several witnesses themselves to testify that Gacy worked with premeditation

2338
01:51:46,200 --> 01:51:50,120
and made efforts to escape detection, showing that he was sane.

2339
01:51:50,120 --> 01:51:54,800
The prosecution's doctors also refuted the defense's doctor's claims of multiple personalities

2340
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:55,800
and insanity.

2341
01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:59,440
David and Michael also testified that Gacy had made them dig trenches and spread bags

2342
01:51:59,440 --> 01:52:03,840
of lime in the crawl space, and they both stated separately that Gacy had looked periodically

2343
01:52:03,840 --> 01:52:08,000
into the crawl space to ensure that them and other employees were only digging in the spots

2344
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:09,880
he wanted them to.

2345
01:52:09,880 --> 01:52:13,880
On February 18th, Robert Stein testified that all of the bodies recovered from the property

2346
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:18,200
were quote, markedly decomposed and putrefied, skeletalized remains.

2347
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:23,520
In that out of all the autopsies he's performed, 13 victims have died of strangulation.

2348
01:52:23,520 --> 01:52:29,360
Six of ligature strangulation, one of multiple stab wounds and 10 in undetermined ways.

2349
01:52:29,360 --> 01:52:33,600
When Gacy's defense team suggested that all 33 deaths were caused by accidental erotic

2350
01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:36,320
asphyxia, Stein called this highly improbable.

2351
01:52:36,320 --> 01:52:38,400
Yeah, it's a- yeah, no, no, no.

2352
01:52:38,400 --> 01:52:40,480
Sorry, are you kidding me?

2353
01:52:40,480 --> 01:52:43,480
All 33 times you'd made the mistake 30 times?

2354
01:52:43,480 --> 01:52:44,680
All 30.

2355
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:46,000
Number one's calling an ambulance.

2356
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:47,000
Yeah.

2357
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:48,000
Number one's calling, like.

2358
01:52:48,000 --> 01:52:49,280
That was stupid.

2359
01:52:49,280 --> 01:52:53,400
Jeffrey Rignal testified on behalf of the prosecution on February 21st.

2360
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:57,480
He repeatedly wept as he recounted the torture that he faced at the hands of Gacy in March

2361
01:52:57,480 --> 01:52:59,200
of 68.

2362
01:52:59,200 --> 01:53:03,640
When asked whether Gacy appreciated the criminality of his actions, Jeffrey said that he believed

2363
01:53:03,640 --> 01:53:09,080
that Gacy was unable to abide by the law because of the quote, quote, beastly and animalistic

2364
01:53:09,080 --> 01:53:11,400
ways he attacked me.

2365
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:16,000
During this time on the stand in cross-examination about the torture specifically, Jeffrey vomited

2366
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:18,040
and was excused from further testimony.

2367
01:53:18,040 --> 01:53:19,040
Oh my God.

2368
01:53:19,040 --> 01:53:20,800
He got so ill.

2369
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:25,920
On February 29th, Donald Voorhees, the first boy that Gacy assaulted in 67, testified about

2370
01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:30,200
his encounter with Gacy as well as his attempt to silence him in previous court hearings

2371
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:33,200
by having the other boy threaten him.

2372
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:38,120
Shortly into the testimony, Donald felt unable to testify and was asked to step down.

2373
01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:42,240
Robert Donnelly testified the week after Donald Voorhees and recounted his attack from Gacy

2374
01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:44,120
in 77.

2375
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:48,240
While testifying, Robert was visibly distressed as he walked the court through the abuse he

2376
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:52,560
endured and he actually had to stop several times as he was close to breaking down.

2377
01:53:52,560 --> 01:54:00,400
So who was out of these men, who were the ones that were, one was beaten, right?

2378
01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:01,400
That's where he's-

2379
01:54:01,400 --> 01:54:05,640
And then one was paid off essentially or threatened in some way, right?

2380
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:06,640
Yeah.

2381
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:07,640
Mm-hmm.

2382
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:08,640
Yeah.

2383
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:13,320
The whole time Robert was testifying, Gacy notably laughed several times, but Robert was somehow

2384
01:54:13,320 --> 01:54:18,520
able to maintain his composure and finish the testimony, despite Gacy's lawyers also

2385
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:21,080
trying to discredit his story during cross-examination.

2386
01:54:21,080 --> 01:54:24,640
I can't imagine how difficult that would be, honestly.

2387
01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:29,080
During the fifth week of the trial, Gacy wrote a letter to Judge Garrippo requesting a mistrial

2388
01:54:29,080 --> 01:54:30,920
for multiple reasons.

2389
01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:33,360
He did not agree with his lawyers' insanity plea.

2390
01:54:33,360 --> 01:54:36,760
His lawyers did not allow him to take the witness stand as he had requested.

2391
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:40,920
They did not call enough medical witnesses on his behalf and the police were lying with

2392
01:54:40,920 --> 01:54:43,200
statements used against him.

2393
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:46,520
Those are all fucking stupid reasons.

2394
01:54:46,520 --> 01:54:50,240
Judge Garrippo addressed the letter by informing Gacy that both councils had not been denied

2395
01:54:50,240 --> 01:54:54,920
the opportunity or funds to summon expert witnesses to testify and that under the law

2396
01:54:54,920 --> 01:54:59,320
he had the choice whether he wished to testify and was free to tell the judge at any point

2397
01:54:59,320 --> 01:55:00,520
if he wanted to do so.

2398
01:55:00,520 --> 01:55:01,520
Yeah.

2399
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:02,520
Just go ahead.

2400
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:03,520
You can just let me know.

2401
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:04,520
That's fine.

2402
01:55:04,520 --> 01:55:05,520
Maybe you should just let me know.

2403
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:06,520
Just let me know.

2404
01:55:06,520 --> 01:55:09,800
On March 11th, final arguments by both the prosecution and defense teams began and they

2405
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:12,440
concluded the following day.

2406
01:55:12,440 --> 01:55:16,360
Juditing attorney Terry Sullivan spoke first, reminding the jury about Gacy's history of

2407
01:55:16,360 --> 01:55:20,840
abusing youths, the testimonies of his efforts to avoid detection and describing his surviving

2408
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:24,400
victims, for he's indonally as the quote living dead.

2409
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:29,640
Referring to Gacy as the quote worst of all murderers, Sullivan stated quote, John Gacy

2410
01:55:29,640 --> 01:55:35,520
has accounted for more human devastation than many earthly catastrophes, but one must tremble.

2411
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:40,560
I tremble when thinking about just how close he came to getting away with it all.

2412
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:45,400
After the state's four hour closing, counsel Sam Amarante spoke for the defense.

2413
01:55:45,400 --> 01:55:49,520
He argued against the testimony delivered by the doctors who had testified for the prosecution,

2414
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:54,000
repeatedly citing the testimony of four psychiatrists and psychologists who had testified on behalf

2415
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:55,320
of the defense.

2416
01:55:55,320 --> 01:55:59,320
Amarante also accused Sullivan of scarcely referring to the evidence presented throughout

2417
01:55:59,320 --> 01:56:03,080
the trial in his own closing argument and accused him of arousing hatred against his

2418
01:56:03,080 --> 01:56:04,080
client.

2419
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:05,840
Um, the lawyer didn't have anything to do with that.

2420
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:09,400
His fucking actions had everything to do with the hatred that was aroused for him.

2421
01:56:09,400 --> 01:56:10,400
Fucker.

2422
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:11,840
I can't believe we're having a discussion about this.

2423
01:56:11,840 --> 01:56:15,000
Like I really honestly can't believe we're having a trial and discussion about this.

2424
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:17,040
Like there is no discussion.

2425
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:18,200
Put the man away.

2426
01:56:18,200 --> 01:56:22,640
The defense lawyer attempted to portray Gacy as a quote man driven by compulsions he was

2427
01:56:22,640 --> 01:56:23,640
unable to control.

2428
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:26,640
Oh, what a baby.

2429
01:56:26,640 --> 01:56:30,640
Suggested that the state had not met their goal of proving Gacy was sane beyond a reasonable

2430
01:56:30,640 --> 01:56:31,640
doubt.

2431
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:34,760
In support of these arguments, the defense referred to the testimony of the doctors

2432
01:56:34,760 --> 01:56:38,640
who had appeared for them in addition to witnesses such as Jeffrey Rignal and a former

2433
01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:43,520
business associate of Gacy's named Mike Nicol Reed, both of whom had testified that their

2434
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:47,200
belief that Gacy had been unable to control his actions.

2435
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:50,000
That might be so that it doesn't mean he's fucking insane.

2436
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:51,000
Yeah.

2437
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:55,280
Amarante then urged the jury to put aside any prejudice they held against Gacy and asked

2438
01:56:55,280 --> 01:57:00,480
they deliver a verdict of not guilty by reason of insanity, adding that Gacy was a danger

2439
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:05,760
to both himself and to others and that studying his psychology and behavior would be of benefit

2440
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:07,520
to science.

2441
01:57:07,520 --> 01:57:11,840
So not only is he not a criminal because he was incapable of controlling his impulses,

2442
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:15,720
we should reward him by putting him in a lab where people can study him.

2443
01:57:15,720 --> 01:57:16,720
He's an anomaly.

2444
01:57:16,720 --> 01:57:17,720
He's precious.

2445
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:18,720
Yeah.

2446
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:19,720
He is one of the...

2447
01:57:19,720 --> 01:57:20,720
He's rare.

2448
01:57:20,720 --> 01:57:21,720
He's rare.

2449
01:57:21,720 --> 01:57:22,720
Literally.

2450
01:57:22,720 --> 01:57:23,720
That's so fucking gross.

2451
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:24,720
Okay, Dr. Frankenstein.

2452
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:28,760
On the morning of March 12th, William Kunkel continued to argue for the prosecution.

2453
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:33,360
He referred to the defense's contention of insanity as quote a sham, arguing that the

2454
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:38,320
facts of the case demonstrated Gacy's ability to think logically and control his actions.

2455
01:57:38,320 --> 01:57:42,880
Kunkel also referred to the testimony of one of the doctors who had examined Gacy in 68

2456
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:47,160
and had concluded he had antisocial personality disorder and was capable of committing crimes

2457
01:57:47,160 --> 01:57:51,840
without remorse and unlikely the benefit from social or psychiatric treatment.

2458
01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:53,520
Like fucking 15, 20 years ago.

2459
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:54,520
Yeah.

2460
01:57:54,520 --> 01:57:56,000
Remember when they did that?

2461
01:57:56,000 --> 01:57:59,240
Referring to this diagnosis, Kunkel stated that had the recommendations of this doctor

2462
01:57:59,240 --> 01:58:03,680
been taken seriously, Gacy would not have been freed from custody or psychiatric treatment

2463
01:58:03,680 --> 01:58:04,920
in the past.

2464
01:58:04,920 --> 01:58:09,400
At the end of this argument, Kunkel removed photos of Gacy's 22 identified victims from

2465
01:58:09,400 --> 01:58:14,200
a display board and asked the jury not to show sympathy but to quote, show justice.

2466
01:58:14,200 --> 01:58:15,680
Hell yeah.

2467
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:20,200
He followed with quote, show the same sympathy this man showed when he took these lives and

2468
01:58:20,200 --> 01:58:25,720
put them there before throwing the stack of photos into the opening of the trap door from

2469
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:30,600
Gacy's crawl space which had been introduced as evidence it was on display in the courtroom.

2470
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:35,680
He threw them into the door.

2471
01:58:35,680 --> 01:58:38,920
The picture is like.

2472
01:58:38,920 --> 01:58:43,040
Kunkel's stance was the last and the jury immediately left to consider their verdict.

2473
01:58:43,040 --> 01:58:47,080
The jury deliberated for less than two hours and when they returned they found Gacy guilty

2474
01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:52,160
of 33 charges of murder as well as sexual assault and taking indecent liberties with

2475
01:58:52,160 --> 01:58:56,040
the child both convictions and reference to Robert Peist.

2476
01:58:56,040 --> 01:59:00,800
His 33 convictions made him the deadliest murder in US history to date.

2477
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:04,600
In the sentencing phase of the trial, the jury deliberated for more than two hours before

2478
01:59:04,600 --> 01:59:10,000
sentencing Gacy to death for each murder committed after the Illinois statute on capital punishment

2479
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:17,720
came into effect in June 1977 and they placed an execution date for June 2, 1980 just a

2480
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:19,520
few months later.

2481
01:59:19,520 --> 01:59:21,560
Like that severe.

2482
01:59:21,560 --> 01:59:27,600
So thankfully he had committed crimes after June 77 and then the death penalty went into

2483
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:30,800
place so anything he committed after that they were like sentenced to death and this

2484
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:35,640
was in like May or March and they were like okay we're gonna be dead in like three months

2485
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:38,120
or whatever.

2486
01:59:38,120 --> 01:59:41,440
After Gacy was sentenced he was immediately transferred to Minnard Correctional Center

2487
01:59:41,440 --> 01:59:46,360
where he remained incarcerated on death row for 14 years.

2488
01:59:46,360 --> 01:59:47,920
It kept getting pushed back.

2489
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:53,920
Before his trial, Gacy initiated contact with WLS TV journalist Russ Ewing to whom he granted

2490
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:57,720
numerous interviews between 1979 and 1981.

2491
01:59:57,720 --> 02:00:01,760
The information Gacy divulged to Ewing would later prove to be substantial in identifying

2492
02:00:01,760 --> 02:00:03,680
his first victim.

2493
02:00:03,680 --> 02:00:10,480
On February 15th 1983, a fellow inmate known as the I-57 killer, Henry Bribson stabbed

2494
02:00:10,480 --> 02:00:15,920
Gacy in the upper arm with a sharpened wire as Gacy was participating in a voluntary work

2495
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:18,360
program.

2496
02:00:18,360 --> 02:00:20,360
Such a green guy.

2497
02:00:20,360 --> 02:00:24,920
A second death row inmate was also injured in the attack, William Jones receiving a superficial

2498
02:00:24,920 --> 02:00:26,520
stab wound in the head.

2499
02:00:26,520 --> 02:00:29,600
Both Gacy and Jones received treatment for their wounds.

2500
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:35,000
Once in prison, Gacy found himself particularly bored and decided to take on some new challenges

2501
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:41,120
and read numerous law books in an attempt to educate himself in the case of an appeal.

2502
02:00:41,120 --> 02:00:45,320
Gacy filed multiple motions and appeals although he did not have success with any of them.

2503
02:00:45,320 --> 02:00:49,320
He submitted these appeals on the grounds that Des Plaines police did not have a valid warrant

2504
02:00:49,320 --> 02:00:53,360
the first time they came to his house and he also objected to his lawyer's insanity

2505
02:00:53,360 --> 02:00:56,000
plea defense at his trial.

2506
02:00:56,000 --> 02:01:01,400
Gacy also claimed that although he had quote, some knowledge of the five murders of McCoy,

2507
02:01:01,400 --> 02:01:07,400
Butkovich, Godzik, Seitz and Pies, the other 28 murders had been committed by his employees

2508
02:01:07,400 --> 02:01:11,360
who had keys to his house while he was away on business trips.

2509
02:01:11,360 --> 02:01:17,080
Oh, those darned kids, you know, how they throw house parties, have a murder, you know,

2510
02:01:17,080 --> 02:01:18,800
Stacked them in my crawl space.

2511
02:01:18,800 --> 02:01:19,800
Stacked them in my crawl space.

2512
02:01:19,800 --> 02:01:22,720
And I just never called the cops on them.

2513
02:01:22,720 --> 02:01:24,360
Just kids being kids.

2514
02:01:24,360 --> 02:01:28,680
In mid-1984, the Supreme Court of Illinois upheld Gacy's conviction and ordered his

2515
02:01:28,680 --> 02:01:32,560
execution by lethal injection on November 14th.

2516
02:01:32,560 --> 02:01:36,280
Gacy filed an appeal against this decision which was denied by the Supreme Court of

2517
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:39,840
the United States on March 4th, 1985.

2518
02:01:39,840 --> 02:01:44,840
The following year, Gacy filed a further post-conviction petition seeking a new trial.

2519
02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:48,960
This new defense lawyer, Richard King, argued that Gacy had been provided with ineffective

2520
02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:52,000
legal counsel at his 1980 trial.

2521
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:56,920
This post-conviction petition was dismissed on September 11th, 1986.

2522
02:01:56,920 --> 02:01:59,640
Gacy appealed the decision that he was to be executed.

2523
02:01:59,640 --> 02:02:05,760
The Illinois Supreme Court upheld his conviction on September 29th, 1988, setting a new execution

2524
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:09,640
date of January 11th, 1989.

2525
02:02:09,640 --> 02:02:14,840
After the U.S. Supreme Court denied Gacy's final appeal on October 1993, the Illinois

2526
02:02:14,840 --> 02:02:18,960
Supreme Court formally set an execution date for May 10th, 1994.

2527
02:02:18,960 --> 02:02:19,960
Oh my God.

2528
02:02:19,960 --> 02:02:21,680
I know, it just keeps getting pushed back.

2529
02:02:21,680 --> 02:02:26,120
On the morning of May 9th, 1994, Gacy was transferred from the Menard Correctional Center

2530
02:02:26,120 --> 02:02:30,120
to Stateville Correctional Center in Cresthill to be executed.

2531
02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:36,520
That afternoon, he was allowed a private picnic on the prison grounds with his family.

2532
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:43,040
For his last meal, Gacy ordered a bucket of KFC, a dozen fried shrimp, french fries, fresh

2533
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:45,040
strawberries, and a diet coke.

2534
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:49,080
He's watching the old waistline.

2535
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:52,760
That evening, he observed a prayer with a Catholic priest before being escorted to the

2536
02:02:52,760 --> 02:02:56,680
Stateville execution chamber to receive a lethal injection.

2537
02:02:56,680 --> 02:03:01,680
In the hours leading up to his execution, a crowd estimated at over 1,000 gathered outside

2538
02:03:01,680 --> 02:03:06,960
the Correctional Center, consisting of a majority in favor of execution, but a small number

2539
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:10,240
were anti-death penalty protesters.

2540
02:03:10,240 --> 02:03:14,940
Among the people that were in favor, many were wearing t-shirts with the quote, no tears

2541
02:03:14,940 --> 02:03:19,000
for the clown on them.

2542
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:23,240
The anti-death penalty protesters also observed a candlelight vigil.

2543
02:03:23,240 --> 02:03:28,280
Before the execution began, the chemicals used in the IV solidified unexpectedly, clogging

2544
02:03:28,280 --> 02:03:37,600
the IV tube used to administer the chemicals into his arm and complicating the procedure.

2545
02:03:37,600 --> 02:03:42,000
Blinds covering the window through which witnesses observed the execution were drawn closed while

2546
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:46,600
the team replaced the tube, and after 10 minutes, the blinds were back open and the execution

2547
02:03:46,600 --> 02:03:47,720
resumed.

2548
02:03:47,720 --> 02:03:51,480
The entire procedure took 18 minutes.

2549
02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:59,920
Could you imagine sitting there for 18 minutes watching somebody wait to die?

2550
02:03:59,920 --> 02:04:03,840
Anesthesiologists blamed the problem on the prison officials' inexperience at conducting

2551
02:04:03,840 --> 02:04:08,600
an execution, saying that had correct execution procedures been followed, the complications

2552
02:04:08,600 --> 02:04:10,720
would have never occurred.

2553
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:15,800
This error apparently led to Illinois adopting an alternative method of lethal injection.

2554
02:04:15,800 --> 02:04:20,280
On this subject, William Kunkel said, quote, he got a much easier death than any of his

2555
02:04:20,280 --> 02:04:21,280
victims.

2556
02:04:21,280 --> 02:04:25,120
Gacy was a diagnosed psychopath who did not express any remorse for his crimes, and he

2557
02:04:25,120 --> 02:04:29,400
was noted as telling his lawyer in his final moments that killing him would not compensate

2558
02:04:29,400 --> 02:04:32,960
for the loss of others and that the state was murdering him.

2559
02:04:32,960 --> 02:04:38,280
When asked if he had any final words, he simply stated, quote, kiss my ass.

2560
02:04:38,280 --> 02:04:44,160
John Wayne Gacy was confirmed to be dead at 12.58 am on May 10, 1994.

2561
02:04:44,160 --> 02:04:48,480
Helen Morrison, a witness for the defense at Gacy's trial, had interviewed Gacy and several

2562
02:04:48,480 --> 02:04:54,440
serial killers in an attempt to isolate common personality traits of violent sociopaths.

2563
02:04:54,440 --> 02:05:07,160
Upon his death, Gacy's brain was removed and given to Helen to study it.

2564
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:09,880
The remainder of Gacy's body was cremated.

2565
02:05:09,880 --> 02:05:14,520
Only 28 of Gacy's victims have been conclusively identified, the youngest being Samuel Stapleton

2566
02:05:14,520 --> 02:05:17,000
and Mitchell Moreno, both 14.

2567
02:05:17,000 --> 02:05:21,200
The eldest were Frances Alexander and Russell Nelson, both 21.

2568
02:05:21,200 --> 02:05:23,480
Five victims have never been identified.

2569
02:05:23,480 --> 02:05:27,960
In October 2011, Cook County Sheriff Thomas Dart announced that investigators, having

2570
02:05:27,960 --> 02:05:32,560
obtained full DNA profiles from each of the unidentified victims, were wanting to renew

2571
02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:35,720
efforts to identify the remaining victims.

2572
02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:39,960
In order to get the word out of their plans, Sheriff Dart stated investigators are actively

2573
02:05:39,960 --> 02:05:45,280
seeking out DNA samples from individuals across the US related to any male missing between

2574
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:48,720
1970 and 1979.

2575
02:05:48,720 --> 02:05:52,560
Results of these tests concluded thus far have confirmed the identity of three additional

2576
02:05:52,560 --> 02:06:01,400
victims of Gacy's confirmed, and solved four unrelated cold cases between 1972 and 1979.

2577
02:06:01,400 --> 02:06:06,560
To this day, five victims still remain unidentified, four of whom have been buried beneath Gacy's

2578
02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:11,440
crawl space and one buried about 15 feet from the barbecued pit in his backyard.

2579
02:06:11,440 --> 02:06:16,560
That being said, they're still taking those DNA samples if anybody knows anyone that had

2580
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:20,240
maybe a grandfather or someone that was missing around that time.

2581
02:06:20,240 --> 02:06:26,200
In that area probably, because it seems like his amoe is pretty around the area.

2582
02:06:26,200 --> 02:06:29,920
That one victim was a few houses down.

2583
02:06:29,920 --> 02:06:35,200
In the fall of 1979, forensic expert Betty Pat Gatliff used the skulls of the remaining

2584
02:06:35,200 --> 02:06:38,960
unidentified victims to create facial reconstructions.

2585
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:42,800
Based on Gacy's confessions, the location of the victims buried in the crawl space and

2586
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:47,680
forensic analysis, the police determined the most likely dates for when his unidentified

2587
02:06:47,680 --> 02:06:49,360
victims were killed.

2588
02:06:49,360 --> 02:06:55,800
January 3, 1972 to July 31, 1975, male aged 14 to 18.

2589
02:06:55,800 --> 02:07:01,040
June 13 to August 5, 1976, male aged 23 to 30.

2590
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:06,760
August 6 through October 5, 1976, male aged 17 to 22.

2591
02:07:06,760 --> 02:07:12,200
August 6 through October 24, 1976, male aged 15 to 24.

2592
02:07:12,200 --> 02:07:17,640
And March 15 to July 5, 1977, male aged 17 to 21.

2593
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:22,040
So those are like the dates narrowed down of when they were gone.

2594
02:07:22,040 --> 02:07:25,800
At the time of his arrest, Gacy claimed to both Des Plaines and Chicago police that

2595
02:07:25,800 --> 02:07:31,120
the total number of victims he had could be as high as 45 while only 33 were linked to

2596
02:07:31,120 --> 02:07:32,120
him.

2597
02:07:32,120 --> 02:07:33,120
Like, fuck off.

2598
02:07:33,120 --> 02:07:34,120
Like he knows.

2599
02:07:34,120 --> 02:07:35,120
Yeah.

2600
02:07:35,120 --> 02:07:36,880
Like 35.

2601
02:07:36,880 --> 02:07:39,920
Retired Chicago police officer Bill Dorsch stated that he had reason to believe there

2602
02:07:39,920 --> 02:07:44,600
might be more victims buried in the grounds of the apartment building located at the 6100

2603
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:49,880
block of West Miami Avenue in Chicago, a property where Gacy had been the caretaker for several

2604
02:07:49,880 --> 02:07:52,000
years before his arrest.

2605
02:07:52,000 --> 02:07:53,000
What about the Florida house?

2606
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:54,600
Remember you had the Florida house?

2607
02:07:54,600 --> 02:07:56,160
No, he just bought that property.

2608
02:07:56,160 --> 02:07:57,160
It wasn't a house.

2609
02:07:57,160 --> 02:07:58,160
So a property?

2610
02:07:58,160 --> 02:08:00,040
It was like a business property, that's true.

2611
02:08:00,040 --> 02:08:05,080
In 1975, when Bill was still a police officer, he observed Gacy, whom he knew on a casual

2612
02:08:05,080 --> 02:08:08,800
basis, holding a shovel in the early hours of the morning.

2613
02:08:08,800 --> 02:08:12,400
When Bill confronted him, Gacy said he was doing work that he was just too busy to do

2614
02:08:12,400 --> 02:08:14,360
during the day.

2615
02:08:14,360 --> 02:08:18,200
Bill had also stated that several other residents of the apartment complex had also seen Gacy

2616
02:08:18,200 --> 02:08:23,760
with a shovel, digging trenches in the grounds of the property in the early to mid-70s.

2617
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:28,120
In March 2012, Cook County Sheriff's officials submitted a request to excavate the grounds

2618
02:08:28,120 --> 02:08:29,280
of the property.

2619
02:08:29,280 --> 02:08:34,040
The state attorney denied the request, citing a lack of probability caused as the reason,

2620
02:08:34,040 --> 02:08:36,640
including the results of a 98 search of the property.

2621
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:43,280
I'm sorry, if somebody was like, oh, Jack the Ripper was probably just bearing shit

2622
02:08:43,280 --> 02:08:44,280
out here.

2623
02:08:44,280 --> 02:08:45,800
Oh, but you know what?

2624
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,080
No, it's probably not linked, so we're just not even going to check it.

2625
02:08:49,080 --> 02:08:50,080
Yeah.

2626
02:08:50,080 --> 02:08:51,080
Like who does that?

2627
02:08:51,080 --> 02:08:52,080
Exactly.

2628
02:08:52,080 --> 02:08:54,800
He's been convicted of killing 33 people.

2629
02:08:54,800 --> 02:08:56,200
It's likely that there's more.

2630
02:08:56,200 --> 02:08:59,200
There's likely that there's more and you're telling me that he lived on this property

2631
02:08:59,200 --> 02:09:03,680
and there's eyewitness testimonies saying they saw these things.

2632
02:09:03,680 --> 02:09:07,880
I think that any county would be like, let's check it out.

2633
02:09:07,880 --> 02:09:08,880
Why not?

2634
02:09:08,880 --> 02:09:10,440
It's something to do.

2635
02:09:10,440 --> 02:09:11,440
Of course.

2636
02:09:11,440 --> 02:09:16,320
However, the Sheriff's office noted that in 1988, a radar survey suggested 14 areas

2637
02:09:16,320 --> 02:09:21,640
of interest within the property grounds, yet only of the two of the 14 had been excavated.

2638
02:09:21,640 --> 02:09:26,680
Of the 12 remaining areas, four were described as being quote, staggeringly suggestive of

2639
02:09:26,680 --> 02:09:29,640
human skeletons.

2640
02:09:29,640 --> 02:09:31,520
Staggeringly suggestive.

2641
02:09:31,520 --> 02:09:36,560
Furthermore, A.K.A. they are, Bill Doris had provided police with a letter from the

2642
02:09:36,560 --> 02:09:40,800
radar company which confirmed the 1998 search of the grounds was incomplete.

2643
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:45,600
A second request to excavate the grounds was submitted by Tom Dart in October 2012 and

2644
02:09:45,600 --> 02:09:50,200
this request was granted in January of 2013, giving way for a search of the property to

2645
02:09:50,200 --> 02:09:51,920
be done in the spring.

2646
02:09:51,920 --> 02:09:56,320
Both FBI sniffer dogs and ground penetrating radar equipment were used in the second search,

2647
02:09:56,320 --> 02:09:59,520
however, no human remains were discovered.

2648
02:09:59,520 --> 02:10:10,900
One of the first things Gacy told investigators after his arrest was that he had not acted

2649
02:10:10,900 --> 02:10:12,800
alone in several of the murders.

2650
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:16,760
He asked whether, quote, my associates had been arrested.

2651
02:10:16,760 --> 02:10:20,480
When asked if this potential accomplice had been directly or indirectly involved in the

2652
02:10:20,480 --> 02:10:23,820
murders, he responded, quote, directly.

2653
02:10:23,820 --> 02:10:28,040
He would later claim that David Cram and Michael Rossi were involved in several of the murders

2654
02:10:28,040 --> 02:10:32,200
and in fact, some criminal defense attorneys and investigators reached the possibility

2655
02:10:32,200 --> 02:10:38,040
that Gacy had indeed not acted alone in several of the murders and have said there is, quote,

2656
02:10:38,040 --> 02:10:40,880
overwhelming evidence Gacy worked with an accomplice.

2657
02:10:40,880 --> 02:10:47,640
In the 1980s, Gacy informed FBI profiler Robert Restler that, quote, two or three PDM employees

2658
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:49,880
had assisted in several murders.

2659
02:10:49,880 --> 02:10:54,840
While Restler believed that there was unexplained avenues to the case that Gacy had killed more

2660
02:10:54,840 --> 02:10:58,720
than 33 victims in several different states, he was pretty much saying, like, it's kind

2661
02:10:58,720 --> 02:11:00,080
of hard for one person to do.

2662
02:11:00,080 --> 02:11:01,080
Yeah.

2663
02:11:01,080 --> 02:11:05,400
Gacy neither confirmed nor denied Restler's claims, however, Jeffrey Rignal, the one who

2664
02:11:05,400 --> 02:11:09,800
had been assaulted and tortured in 1978, was adamant that at one point during his abuse

2665
02:11:09,800 --> 02:11:16,240
and torture, a young man with brown hair had knelt before him and watched his abuse.

2666
02:11:16,240 --> 02:11:20,000
Jeffrey also stated that he saw a light come on at another part of the house at times,

2667
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:22,440
suggesting someone else was in the home.

2668
02:11:22,440 --> 02:11:26,880
On one occasion, three days before his arrest, Gacy was followed by two officers while surveilling

2669
02:11:26,880 --> 02:11:32,120
him, and he walked into a bar where he met two employees, Michael Rossi and Ed Hefner.

2670
02:11:32,120 --> 02:11:36,720
Gacy walked out of earshot of the detectives and was reportedly whispering to the boys.

2671
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:41,320
He was reported as saying, quote, you better not let me down, you fuckers, you owe it to

2672
02:11:41,320 --> 02:11:42,600
me.

2673
02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:47,720
The officers also overheard a conversation with Gacy and Michael in which he said, quote,

2674
02:11:47,720 --> 02:11:51,760
and what, buried like the other five.

2675
02:11:51,760 --> 02:11:55,040
In his interviews while on death row, Gacy said that at the time of his arrest, three

2676
02:11:55,040 --> 02:11:59,200
PDM employees were also considered suspects in the murders, all of whom had possession

2677
02:11:59,200 --> 02:12:01,000
of the keys for his home.

2678
02:12:01,000 --> 02:12:05,280
In addition to David and Michael, Gacy also named his former employee, Philip Pasky, who

2679
02:12:05,280 --> 02:12:08,600
was a close associate of many in Gacy's circle.

2680
02:12:08,600 --> 02:12:14,560
In the late 1970s, John Norman, another associate of Gacy's, operated a nationwide sex trafficking

2681
02:12:14,560 --> 02:12:17,560
ring based in Chicago known as the Delta Project.

2682
02:12:17,560 --> 02:12:18,560
Huh.

2683
02:12:18,560 --> 02:12:22,440
At least two victims believed to have been murdered by Gacy were last seen alive close

2684
02:12:22,440 --> 02:12:24,880
to where John Norman lived.

2685
02:12:24,880 --> 02:12:29,480
This led to the theory that Gacy was also involved in this sex trafficking ring.

2686
02:12:29,480 --> 02:12:34,560
Gacy claimed that he was not in Chicago when 16 of the identified victims had disappeared.

2687
02:12:34,560 --> 02:12:39,200
In 2012, two Chicago lawyers said that travel records showed that he had indeed been in

2688
02:12:39,200 --> 02:12:43,560
another state, but only at the time of three of the murders, implying that he was assisted

2689
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:45,560
by one or more accomplices.

2690
02:12:45,560 --> 02:12:46,560
Hmm.

2691
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:51,280
In 1984, Sam Emerante authored procedures that were incorporated by the Illinois General

2692
02:12:51,280 --> 02:12:55,360
Assembly into the Missing Child Recovery Act of 1984.

2693
02:12:55,360 --> 02:13:00,520
Emerante had since said the primary inspiration for this was at the time of the Gacy murders,

2694
02:13:00,520 --> 02:13:05,480
the Illinois police had to wait 72 hours before initiating a search for a missing child or

2695
02:13:05,480 --> 02:13:06,880
adolescent.

2696
02:13:06,880 --> 02:13:11,920
The Illinois Missing Recovery Act of 1984 removed the 72 hour waiting period and other

2697
02:13:11,920 --> 02:13:15,320
states across America quickly adopted similar procedures.

2698
02:13:15,320 --> 02:13:18,480
Like they have to be missing for three days before you can do anything.

2699
02:13:18,480 --> 02:13:21,080
But like even a baby, like a child child?

2700
02:13:21,080 --> 02:13:22,080
Children and adolescents.

2701
02:13:22,080 --> 02:13:24,240
So like even like four year olds.

2702
02:13:24,240 --> 02:13:26,400
Three year olds.

2703
02:13:26,400 --> 02:13:31,720
As a result, a national network aimed at locating missing children was gradually formed and

2704
02:13:31,720 --> 02:13:36,200
this has since developed into the child abduction emergency, more commonly known as the Amber

2705
02:13:36,200 --> 02:13:37,200
Alert.

2706
02:13:37,200 --> 02:13:39,080
I'm sure he's all like rolling in his grave.

2707
02:13:39,080 --> 02:13:40,680
Like he's like, I did that.

2708
02:13:40,680 --> 02:13:41,680
Yeah, literally.

2709
02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:43,880
Probably so.

2710
02:13:43,880 --> 02:13:46,960
Isolated in his prison cell, Gacy began to paint frequently.

2711
02:13:46,960 --> 02:13:51,160
He drew inspiration from a wide range of sources for his artwork with his paintings depicting

2712
02:13:51,160 --> 02:13:59,960
subjects such as diverse as Christ, birds, skulls, his own home and John Dillinger.

2713
02:13:59,960 --> 02:14:04,920
Many paintings were also of clowns, specifically himself as Pogo or Patches.

2714
02:14:04,920 --> 02:14:09,160
Although Gacy was permitted to earn money from the sale of his paintings until 1985, he

2715
02:14:09,160 --> 02:14:13,280
claimed his artwork was intended, quote, to bring joy into people's lives.

2716
02:14:13,280 --> 02:14:14,480
That's because that's what he does.

2717
02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:17,840
He just brings joy into people's lives.

2718
02:14:17,840 --> 02:14:21,240
Many of Gacy's paintings have been displayed at exhibitions and others have been sold at

2719
02:14:21,240 --> 02:14:25,960
various auctions with individual prices ranging from $200 to $20,000.

2720
02:14:25,960 --> 02:14:26,960
Still?

2721
02:14:26,960 --> 02:14:27,960
That was before.

2722
02:14:27,960 --> 02:14:31,520
Yeah, I'm not sure today.

2723
02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:35,120
Following Gacy's execution, family members of his victims publicly burned several of

2724
02:14:35,120 --> 02:14:36,120
his paintings.

2725
02:14:36,120 --> 02:14:39,600
Of course, there have been many film adaptations and documentaries about him as he's one of

2726
02:14:39,600 --> 02:14:42,800
the most prolific serial killers of all time.

2727
02:14:42,800 --> 02:14:46,760
Richard Rappaport, the chief psychiatrist for Gacy's defense, believed that Gacy's

2728
02:14:46,760 --> 02:14:50,760
childhood, particularly his relationship with his father, has played a pivotal role in his

2729
02:14:50,760 --> 02:14:55,120
treatment of his victims, stating, quote, the relationship that went on between John

2730
02:14:55,120 --> 02:14:59,840
Ryan Gacy and his father was the forerunner of the relationship he had to his victims.

2731
02:14:59,840 --> 02:15:04,120
He also noted, however, that Gacy's childhood was not solely to blame for his actions later

2732
02:15:04,120 --> 02:15:08,080
in life, stating something similar that, you know, you have three children that suffered

2733
02:15:08,080 --> 02:15:12,200
the same abuse, but only one turned out to be the rotten apple.

2734
02:15:12,200 --> 02:15:16,720
Rappaport was also noted as saying about Gacy's actions, quote, he was putting on a scenario

2735
02:15:16,720 --> 02:15:19,520
that reenacted the way he felt as a child.

2736
02:15:19,520 --> 02:15:23,400
He was essentially getting them to play his role of being helpless while he played the

2737
02:15:23,400 --> 02:15:27,920
role of the father, and he'd punished them for begging him and for looking like cowards,

2738
02:15:27,920 --> 02:15:31,560
whatever he felt about his own inadequacies he put on them.

2739
02:15:31,560 --> 02:15:34,640
So remember the McDonald triad that we talked about before?

2740
02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:38,040
The warning signs of a violent serial offender usually exhibited in childhood, bedwetting

2741
02:15:38,040 --> 02:15:41,280
past a certain age, fire setting, and the torture of small animals.

2742
02:15:41,280 --> 02:15:46,680
Well, according to Rappaport, who studied Gacy for nearly 65 hours in total, he actually

2743
02:15:46,680 --> 02:15:49,800
exhibited none of those behaviors as a child.

2744
02:15:49,800 --> 02:15:54,840
He stated, quote, I spent a full year before evaluating him, studying the literature, trying

2745
02:15:54,840 --> 02:15:59,920
to understand how a guy who seemed so normal could be so abnormal in this one respect.

2746
02:15:59,920 --> 02:16:05,160
So due to his childhood actions being seemingly normal, it kind of makes me believe that his

2747
02:16:05,160 --> 02:16:10,120
abuse was the really big thing that caused the horrendous future.

2748
02:16:10,120 --> 02:16:14,000
Some experts also believe that because of his abuse, he was hit in the head very hard

2749
02:16:14,000 --> 02:16:20,080
as a child, causing his brain to become underdeveloped and aggravating those awful feelings as an

2750
02:16:20,080 --> 02:16:21,080
adult.

2751
02:16:21,080 --> 02:16:24,240
But nonetheless, sorry, anti-social personality disorder, absolutely.

2752
02:16:24,240 --> 02:16:27,400
He definitely seems like he's the person that's definitely being controlled by the

2753
02:16:27,400 --> 02:16:31,080
id, you know, and that it's all impulse.

2754
02:16:31,080 --> 02:16:36,760
Like, again, it's like, if I get that urge to be in politics, I'm gonna do that.

2755
02:16:36,760 --> 02:16:41,000
Or if I get that urge to pursue this type of career, I'm gonna do that.

2756
02:16:41,000 --> 02:16:42,720
If I feel like killing someone, I'm gonna do that.

2757
02:16:42,720 --> 02:16:44,640
If I feel like burying them, I'm gonna do that.

2758
02:16:44,640 --> 02:16:50,920
And it is, it's even, you know, not just modus operandi, but it's methodical, it's

2759
02:16:50,920 --> 02:16:53,640
done essentially kind of the same way.

2760
02:16:53,640 --> 02:16:59,800
But it didn't ever really seem like, like you said, it just seems like I said, he's

2761
02:16:59,800 --> 02:17:02,600
controlled by the id, he's controlled by the impulse.

2762
02:17:02,600 --> 02:17:03,600
Yeah, no, definitely.

2763
02:17:03,600 --> 02:17:06,400
And that's all I have on my research that is this story.

2764
02:17:06,400 --> 02:17:07,400
Oh my goodness.

2765
02:17:07,400 --> 02:17:08,400
No, that was a very long episode.

2766
02:17:08,400 --> 02:17:10,160
My ass and my legs fell asleep.

2767
02:17:10,160 --> 02:17:11,160
I am so hungry.

2768
02:17:11,160 --> 02:17:12,160
Me too.

2769
02:17:12,160 --> 02:17:15,000
But thanks for hanging out with us for this super long episode.

2770
02:17:15,000 --> 02:17:16,000
I hope you guys like these.

2771
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:19,040
If you like these really long ones, like of course, why not this long?

2772
02:17:19,040 --> 02:17:20,480
Because this guy was just such an anomaly.

2773
02:17:20,480 --> 02:17:22,160
We had so much research.

2774
02:17:22,160 --> 02:17:24,560
So glad that I'm over researching him.

2775
02:17:24,560 --> 02:17:26,280
But if you guys like these longer episodes, let us know.

2776
02:17:26,280 --> 02:17:29,960
I know that we've done a couple lately and we'll just continue to pump out content.

2777
02:17:29,960 --> 02:17:30,960
Thanks for being patient with us.

2778
02:17:30,960 --> 02:17:31,960
I enjoy it.

2779
02:17:31,960 --> 02:17:32,960
I think it's fun.

2780
02:17:32,960 --> 02:17:35,440
But that's all I have.

2781
02:17:35,440 --> 02:17:39,040
I think we went off, we talked about his diagnosis, we talked about his shitty life, and we don't

2782
02:17:39,040 --> 02:17:40,040
have to talk about him ever again.

2783
02:17:40,040 --> 02:17:41,040
It's true.

2784
02:17:41,040 --> 02:17:42,400
Is that anything else you got?

2785
02:17:42,400 --> 02:17:43,400
No.

2786
02:17:43,400 --> 02:17:44,400
Okay.

2787
02:17:44,400 --> 02:17:45,400
I think it's pretty cut and dry.

2788
02:17:45,400 --> 02:17:46,400
I liked it though.

2789
02:17:46,400 --> 02:17:47,400
Thank you for presenting.

2790
02:17:47,400 --> 02:17:48,400
Absolutely.

2791
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:49,400
We will see you guys next time.

2792
02:17:49,400 --> 02:17:53,000
We can follow us on Instagram at DiagnosingAKiller, Twitter at KillerDiagnosis.

2793
02:17:53,000 --> 02:17:55,840
You can send us an email at diagnosingakiller at gmail.com.

2794
02:17:55,840 --> 02:18:02,000
We also have patreon.com slash diagnosingakiller and follow us on TikTok at diagnosingakiller.

2795
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:05,400
Thank you guys so much for everything you do for us and we will talk to you later.

2796
02:18:05,400 --> 02:18:06,400
Love you.

2797
02:18:06,400 --> 02:18:07,400
Love you.

2798
02:18:07,400 --> 02:18:14,400
Bye.