1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000
Hello!

2
00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:02,000
Hello!

3
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000
Welcome back to Diagnosing a Killer, I'm Koelle and I'm Kenna.

4
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:22,000
I know, we're back.

5
00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:32,000
Again, again, we're back again.

6
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,000
We're gonna stop making promises you guys.

7
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,000
I know, I think we accidentally lied to you guys again.

8
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,000
Yeah, well, not on purpose.

9
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:45,000
New York was just so busy and I know that people that were listening that heard that were like,

10
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,000
oh we're gonna record in New York, we're like, yeah, fucking right.

11
00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:48,000
Yeah, right.

12
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,000
But we just, we brought all of our stuff and we just simply did not have time to do it.

13
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,000
That's true.

14
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,000
There was too much to do.

15
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,000
We were only there for four days.

16
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,000
Yeah.

17
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:00,000
And then by the time we got back, you weren't feeling well and I was really tired and then

18
00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,000
we thought you might have had COVID and so we had to wait for that to come back to record.

19
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,000
But we are back anyways nonetheless.

20
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,000
And nobody asked COVID.

21
00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,000
Yeah, no one asked COVID.

22
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,000
Not anymore.

23
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,000
Not anymore.

24
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:11,000
I did.

25
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,000
I did.

26
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,000
Well, yeah, I'm really excited.

27
00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,000
We're gonna do another case today.

28
00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,000
Yes.

29
00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:25,000
So originally we talked about doing a New York case, which I did do, but it also ties

30
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:26,000
into Texas.

31
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,000
Oh.

32
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:28,000
So that was gonna be like the whole thing.

33
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,000
It was like we were gonna be recording in New York.

34
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:31,000
Yeah.

35
00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,000
And then this case also gets brought into Texas.

36
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000
I mean, it's just like Kismet.

37
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,000
Yes.

38
00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,000
Ready?

39
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,000
I am ready.

40
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,000
Okay.

41
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:41,000
So Robert Durst.

42
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:42,000
Okay.

43
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,000
Do you know who Robert Durst is?

44
00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,000
Yeah, I've heard the name.

45
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,000
Damn it.

46
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,000
No, it's okay.

47
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:48,000
It'll be new to me a little bit of it.

48
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,000
Okay.

49
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:50,000
Well, not new, but just like a refresher.

50
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,000
Okay.

51
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,000
So Robert Durst was born April 12, 1943 in New York City to parents Bernice.

52
00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:01,000
I guess it's Hurstine, Hurstine, and Seymour Durst.

53
00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,000
Robert was the oldest of four kids.

54
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:08,480
It went Robert, then Douglas Durst, who's two years younger, Wendy Durst, who's four

55
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,160
years younger, and Tommy Durst, which is seven years younger than Robert.

56
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:18,040
His grandfather was named Joseph, and Joseph was actually an immigrant from Austria, Hungary,

57
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:20,160
who moved to the US in 1902.

58
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,160
Wow.

59
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,600
So he was a tailor before he moved, but after arriving into the States, he became a very

60
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,960
successful real estate manager and developer.

61
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:28,960
Oh, wow.

62
00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,960
And then thus creating the Durst organization in 1927.

63
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,400
I mean, real estate was just all the hype in 1902.

64
00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:37,400
It was.

65
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,600
Well, we went to the Empire State Building and you got to see like all the construction

66
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,320
and stuff and the old videos.

67
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:44,320
So cool.

68
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:45,320
It was booming.

69
00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,360
So Robert remembers his mother as being a happy woman and the house was really well

70
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:51,360
off.

71
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:55,920
Robert was quoted in saying, quote, all my life I have had more money than I can spend

72
00:02:55,920 --> 00:02:57,360
and it never made me happy.

73
00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,360
Oh, wow.

74
00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,840
It was noted that he had never gotten along with his brother, Douglas, however.

75
00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,120
And in fact, the siblings actually went to rivalry counseling sessions.

76
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,120
Oh my gosh.

77
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,120
I didn't know it was a thing.

78
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,440
Yeah, because it got so severe.

79
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:09,920
They just never got along.

80
00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:10,920
Wow.

81
00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:13,520
In 1951, Robert was seven years old.

82
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:18,600
Robert actually claimed that in the night, his father had escorted him to a window of

83
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,920
their house saying, come see your mommy.

84
00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:22,320
Let's say hi to mommy.

85
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:23,320
Uh.

86
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:29,200
So outside of the window, he could see his mother standing on the roof of the house in

87
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,200
her nightgown.

88
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:31,480
This is in the middle of the night.

89
00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,000
He said that he waved to her not knowing what was about to transpire.

90
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:39,200
He then witnessed his mother fall to her death.

91
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,640
Robert claimed that his father had brought him to the window with the intention of making

92
00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,760
him watch his own mother commit suicide.

93
00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,280
She was like, hey, by the way, like I'm out and the father was like, hold on, let me just

94
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:51,720
go grab the kid and show him.

95
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:52,720
I don't know.

96
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,920
So how did the dad know that she was going to do that?

97
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:55,920
Like at that moment?

98
00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,680
I don't, I, in, I don't know.

99
00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:05,200
Like I think that maybe if she was threatening to like kill herself or something that he

100
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,720
was like, are you going to do this to your child?

101
00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:08,720
Here's your child.

102
00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:09,720
I'm going to do this in front of your child.

103
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:13,080
But then I feel like she would be like, oh no, I don't want to do that in front of my

104
00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,080
child.

105
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:15,080
Right.

106
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,440
So it's like, did she even know that Robert was there?

107
00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,440
Yeah.

108
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,800
Robert, just like I said, his account was that he was walked to the window and was like,

109
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,640
come see your mother, like come see your mother.

110
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,160
You also have to think about the fact that he's what I would seven at this point and

111
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,360
it's the middle of the night.

112
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,840
This might not be the best, like most clear memory that he has.

113
00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,480
So that there could have been other aspects that happened and he just couldn't remember.

114
00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:37,480
Yeah.

115
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,120
So he did say that he was woken up in the middle of the night and was escorted to the

116
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,120
window.

117
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,640
And also it was on the second story.

118
00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:44,640
They had a pretty big house.

119
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,760
I'm pretty sure she was like about third or fourth story.

120
00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:47,760
Okay.

121
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,200
I was going to say that's unlikely to kill somebody is just a second story.

122
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:57,280
And they had people like maids or housekeepers that were also that also tended to the house

123
00:04:57,280 --> 00:04:58,280
because they were really rich.

124
00:04:58,280 --> 00:04:59,280
Yeah.

125
00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:00,280
They were super well off.

126
00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:01,640
Damn, that sucks.

127
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:07,240
So again, Robert's account is that he claimed that his father did this on purpose to him.

128
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:11,040
This is something that Seymour has denied completely.

129
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,920
And Douglas, even his brother, backed him up and said, Robert never witnessed the death

130
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:15,920
of her mother.

131
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:16,920
Yeah.

132
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:17,920
Wow.

133
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:18,920
Okay.

134
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:22,640
And if that was true, like how fucking like mentally skewing would that be to hear somebody

135
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,840
say like, no, you're wrong.

136
00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:24,840
You didn't see that.

137
00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:25,840
You didn't see that.

138
00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:26,840
I am like, I witnessed it.

139
00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:27,840
I did.

140
00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:28,840
Yeah.

141
00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:29,840
Like what the hell?

142
00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:30,840
Exactly.

143
00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:34,600
The newspaper has even stated that the incident was an accident saying that she had slipped

144
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:35,600
from the roof.

145
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:41,160
But like, why was she out there in the middle of the night in a nightgown no less?

146
00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:42,160
So like what is it?

147
00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,920
It's not like she's working on the roof in the middle of the night.

148
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:44,920
Maybe she was sleepwalking.

149
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:45,920
I don't know.

150
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,560
But it's like, is there a cover up?

151
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:55,720
Like because apparently multiple adults had witnessed this and said that it was an accident.

152
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:56,720
That's kind of weird.

153
00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:57,720
Yeah.

154
00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:58,720
I don't know.

155
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,640
I mean, nobody wants to believe that their loved one or someone that they're close to

156
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,640
is willing and able to commit suicide, but at the same time it's like, does it really

157
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,160
sound like an accident to me?

158
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:09,160
Right.

159
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,160
And kind of doesn't.

160
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:11,160
It's kind of a weird situation.

161
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:12,160
Yeah.

162
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,560
So Robert was quoted in saying that quote, that night has never left me.

163
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:16,560
Uh, yeah.

164
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,520
It wouldn't leave me either.

165
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,760
So this kind of became the beginning of Robert starting to act out and specifically in running

166
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:23,760
away.

167
00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,520
He would run away at night during the day.

168
00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,480
He just wouldn't come back home, all this other stuff.

169
00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,920
He just did not want to be home.

170
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:35,960
Seymour's escape, his dad, was basically throwing himself into work and he basically left the

171
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,920
kids to grieve alone because they were being taken care of by other people.

172
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,000
So he was never really around and Seymour rarely spoke of anything regarding his late

173
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,960
wife at all from that point on.

174
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:52,800
You could really argue that if this whole thing did happen that Robert would be, as

175
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,360
a child, scared that maybe I'm next.

176
00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,840
Like maybe that'll happen to me if he thought that she was coerced in any way or she thought

177
00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:03,960
that his dad clearly in his memory didn't care about what happened to his mother so

178
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,440
what does he care what happens to me?

179
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:11,960
So in 1953 evaluation by psychologist cited Robert had shown signs of quote, personality

180
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,800
decomposition and possibly even schizophrenia.

181
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:16,800
In Robert's?

182
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,000
For Robert, yeah.

183
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,280
And this was through some of the counseling that him and Douglas were experiencing together.

184
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:27,120
So during his high school years Robert was described as a loner.

185
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,120
Can't see why.

186
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:33,360
In college in Pennsylvania he played on the Varsity La Crosse team and he was actually

187
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,480
a business manager of the school's newspaper.

188
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,120
That doesn't sound like a loner to me.

189
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,120
Right?

190
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:39,120
Yeah.

191
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:40,120
I think he was trying his best.

192
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:43,560
I think that was high school was that he was described as a loner but in college he

193
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,560
played.

194
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:45,560
Oh I see, I see.

195
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,200
He played Varsity La Crosse and a business manager of the school's newspaper.

196
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,720
He eventually graduated with a bachelor's in economics in 1965.

197
00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:58,360
Robert then decided to move to California to study at UCLA and he was pursuing a doctoral

198
00:07:58,360 --> 00:07:59,520
degree.

199
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,800
Here he met Susan Berman.

200
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,120
Susan Berman was the daughter of an infamous Jewish American mobster and he was known for

201
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,840
taking over the Flamingo in Las Vegas from Bugsy Siegel after his death.

202
00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,120
Okay, that's fucking cool.

203
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,440
Yeah, like that's your dad.

204
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,480
Yeah, we just stayed there in August.

205
00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,880
So although some details about her early life are definitely out there if you want to research

206
00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,560
it, be my guest, but for this purpose and this time I just want to say that Susan Berman

207
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,320
became Robert Durst's best friend during these years in college.

208
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,320
So again, this was in the late 60s.

209
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:36,560
So by 1969 Robert would actually drop out of school and return to New York.

210
00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:42,760
This is basically because Robert was pressured by Seymour to come back for the family business

211
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,640
because again this is like across.

212
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,400
He was growing up in New York and all sort of stuff.

213
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,680
He grew up in Pennsylvania then went to California and again that's where he met Susan.

214
00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:57,120
But although Robert did move back into the area of New York, he ended up actually moving

215
00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,200
to Vermont and started up a health food store.

216
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,480
It's a similar to Whole Foods.

217
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,720
So I think at this time he's like, okay, I'm a little hippie-dippy probably at this point.

218
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,960
It's the late 60s going into the 70s.

219
00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:15,720
I think that that's something that was completely different than what his dad wanted.

220
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,280
And so again, I think it's just like kind of interesting.

221
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,360
Like, well, you got to work, you got to do something and what am I going to do with dad's

222
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:24,360
money?

223
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,360
I guess I'm going to open up a health food store.

224
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,080
Yeah, just help some people out.

225
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,080
Yeah.

226
00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,560
So in the fall of 1971, again, this is just a few years later, Robert actually met Kathleen

227
00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:36,000
McCormick or as her family and friends called her Kathy.

228
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,960
Kathy was described as a always well put together and incredibly smart individual.

229
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,120
While out with friends, she met Robert.

230
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,000
She was swept off her feet immediately.

231
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:50,480
They had actually met in New York where she was living and Robert was in town visiting

232
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:51,480
from Vermont.

233
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:56,000
But after just two dates, Robert asked Kathy to move in with him and she did.

234
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,000
Okay.

235
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,000
Yeah.

236
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,800
So it was like, world-wind, Kathy.

237
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:00,800
Yeah.

238
00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:01,800
Balzy.

239
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:02,800
Right?

240
00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,280
He's just a smooth talker.

241
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,720
So within a year, the couples actually started talking about marriage.

242
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,640
And so this has had to have been like 72 maybe, all very, very quick, right?

243
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,840
And they actually ended up getting married on Robert's 30th birthday.

244
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,600
So April 12, 1972-ish.

245
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:25,280
So feeling the pressure to continue the family business once again, Robert eventually sold

246
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,160
his health food store in order to please his father, Seymour.

247
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,680
So they did move back to New York.

248
00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:37,440
And although the couple seemed happy, Kathy's family grew increasingly suspicious of Robert

249
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,640
and his behavior was described as odd oftentimes.

250
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,840
Is he still struggling with this half-diagnosed schizophrenia?

251
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,360
Yeah, of course.

252
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,440
Like, he's never taken any type of medication for it.

253
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,040
He was never really treated for it.

254
00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:58,240
So after leaving family events, oftentimes Robert and Kathy would argue, mostly because

255
00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,560
the family didn't like Robert.

256
00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:00,560
Well, yeah.

257
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:04,640
And then it's like frustrating whenever you go to an event, you don't have a good time,

258
00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:05,640
things happen.

259
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,400
And then as soon as you leave, that's what you're going to talk about.

260
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:08,640
I mean, me and Casey do that.

261
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,840
I mean, we talk about good things, but whenever we go somewhere, we have a time, whatever,

262
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:13,640
about our good, we talk about it on the way home.

263
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:14,960
And of course, yeah.

264
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:20,240
And from what I can tell, the family probably didn't live very close to where Kathy and

265
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,160
Robert did.

266
00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:28,320
At this point, they do have a house that is on a plot of land by a lake.

267
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,440
But they also have an in-town or in-city apartment that they also have as well.

268
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,480
I'm assuming just for convenience.

269
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,160
Yeah, absolutely.

270
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,480
But it just seemed like when they would be traveling home to the lake house after a visit

271
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,400
with Kathy's family, they would kind of, of course, argue, be like, you know, they don't

272
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:45,400
like me.

273
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:46,400
Like, why are we there or whatever?

274
00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,080
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be around someone's family that didn't like me.

275
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:50,080
Yeah.

276
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,080
And made it very clear that they didn't like me.

277
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:53,080
Right.

278
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,800
And so for Kathy, it was like, can't you just like chill out for an hour or two?

279
00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,520
Like, do you have to be so, you know, I think everybody goes through that.

280
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:01,520
I can see it on both sides.

281
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:02,520
Yeah, I really can.

282
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,520
Everybody goes through issues with the other partner's family.

283
00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:05,520
Yeah.

284
00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,840
And that's part of being in a relationship, honestly.

285
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,600
So of course, Robert, being used to a certain lifestyle, he said that he would feel, quote,

286
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,880
forced to spend time with the average American family, which, again, he's used to a certain

287
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,400
type of lifestyle and he probably thought they were country bumpkins compared to what

288
00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:22,400
he was growing up with, you know?

289
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:28,080
Yeah, but he's been away from his, like, I guess, physically been away, like in California,

290
00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:29,080
this and that and the other.

291
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,360
He's been back, but I feel like he kind of distanced himself from that a long time ago.

292
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,360
Yeah.

293
00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,720
And he's kind of complaining now that he doesn't have that.

294
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:36,720
Yeah.

295
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,640
He wants to have his cake and eat it too.

296
00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:39,640
Yeah.

297
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,880
So on January 31st, 1982, the last person to see Katya live was a friend of hers who

298
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,520
was hosting a dinner party.

299
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:47,520
Hold on.

300
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,840
So they've been together for, what, like almost 10 years?

301
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:50,840
Yeah.

302
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,360
I think they were married and, well, they met in 71.

303
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,320
They married a year later, so about eight to 10 years somewhere in there.

304
00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,320
All of the sudden?

305
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,320
She's just...

306
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:02,640
Well, it's not kind of all of the sudden.

307
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,400
Well, it seems that way though.

308
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:07,680
It does seem that way though.

309
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:09,240
It does.

310
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,520
So although Kathy wasn't actually invited to this dinner party, she had showed up.

311
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:16,400
And it was a good friend of hers.

312
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,200
It's not like it was, you know, an acquaintance.

313
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:21,600
This person was actually one of her best friends.

314
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,800
She was just hosting a dinner party and I don't know what the circumstances were, but it's

315
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,040
not that Kathy wasn't necessarily not invited.

316
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,720
It was just she was hosting a dinner party and I guess Kathy knew.

317
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,480
So she showed up and it was noticed by her friend that Kathy was wearing a pair of red

318
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,680
sweatpants, which was very unusual for the well put together, Kathy, right?

319
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:42,080
She was described as always put together.

320
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,640
Kathy seemed down all night or kind of emotional about something.

321
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,720
And throughout the time that Kathy was at her friend's house, Robert had called several

322
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,640
times and each time Kathy seemed to get more agitated.

323
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,320
So she was just, I guess he was calling to make sure she was there.

324
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,040
I mean, not abnormal in and itself.

325
00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,040
Like, I've gotten annoyed too.

326
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,960
But out of combination with her feeling like emotional and stuff too.

327
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,160
And wearing like abnormal clothes for her.

328
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,160
Yeah.

329
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,280
It was like every time she answered the phone, she would get more upset.

330
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,640
Just kind of like, so eventually she decided to depart from the party and make her way

331
00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,320
back home to the lake house with a couple shared.

332
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:19,080
So the next day, some of Kathy's friends were supposed to meet up with her for drinks

333
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,800
and Kathy never showed.

334
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:25,680
The next several days, the friends attempted to contact police regarding the potential disappearance

335
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:31,120
of Kathy and nearing the end of the week, Robert himself finally decided to notify police.

336
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,120
So nearly a week.

337
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,320
So the friends were like talking to Robert and he was like, I don't know where she is.

338
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,520
Either like, maybe we should file a report.

339
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,920
And so it seemed like they were concerned.

340
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,160
They were calling Robert.

341
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,720
They were calling Kathy.

342
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,160
There was no answer.

343
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:51,160
Either there was answers from him and he was just kind of like evasive or, you know, they

344
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,760
would be calling the New York apartment and no answer, the one inside the city.

345
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,520
And there would be no answer.

346
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,760
I'm assuming they probably tried to contact other friends and family members.

347
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:09,560
But this is like since the next day after they saw her at the party, but Robert waited

348
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:11,060
an entire week.

349
00:15:11,060 --> 00:15:14,520
And it seemed like the only reason he did report it is because people were asking him

350
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:15,960
where Kathy was.

351
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:21,400
So this is after he was advised by his dad and his brother to not come forward, by the

352
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:22,400
way.

353
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,660
Like they were the ones that were telling him like he called according to Robert.

354
00:15:27,660 --> 00:15:31,600
He called his dad and his brother and said, should I be worried?

355
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,960
And both the dad and the brother were like, well, you've had some problems with her.

356
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,160
Like maybe she's just trying to lay low for a little bit.

357
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,360
I wouldn't be so concerned just yet.

358
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:47,760
And I think honestly, part of it is because they're a really well off family and they're

359
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,320
really well known in New York.

360
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,560
And if, you know, they didn't want media.

361
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,200
If it's a misunderstanding, then they look silly.

362
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:55,200
Exactly.

363
00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:00,320
Or if it's a crime, then they look worse.

364
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,680
So Robert came in for an interview and he spoke to police about the events that transpired

365
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,560
on the 31st of January.

366
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,760
He said that in the morning it was typical that he and Kathy went to a local shop for

367
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,360
a newspaper and coffee, as they always do.

368
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,360
They came back to enjoy breakfast.

369
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,640
Kathy then decided to go to her friend's house around 3.30 or 4.00 PM.

370
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,760
Then she came home at about 7.30.

371
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,360
Robert could tell that she had been drinking at her friend's house, but that she was not

372
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,360
drunk.

373
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,320
Robert said that they ate together that night having sandwiches and then they both left

374
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:31,320
for the train station.

375
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:32,320
Oh, that's a lie.

376
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:34,320
Cause who the fuck has sandwiches for dinner?

377
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:35,320
When you're rich.

378
00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:36,320
When you're rich.

379
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,160
When it was very specific.

380
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,160
It was only-

381
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,160
Actually, we had sandwiches.

382
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,160
So, I know.

383
00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,520
It was kind of a weird thing to say.

384
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,520
So I'm just- I'm kind of thinking like, because- okay, so she went to her friend's

385
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,600
house at 3.30 or 4.00, right?

386
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,400
Then she came home at 7.30.

387
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,160
How many times do you think he called her in between that time?

388
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,160
No, probably multiple times.

389
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:58,160
Three or four hours?

390
00:16:58,160 --> 00:16:59,160
Yeah.

391
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:00,480
He probably called at least three or four times.

392
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,200
At least.

393
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,600
Because apparently she was getting agitated and apparently it was enough for other people

394
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:06,760
to notice.

395
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,600
Then she comes back at 7.30.

396
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,360
She's been drinking but she's not drunk.

397
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:15,000
They ate sandwiches together and then they both left for the train station.

398
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,360
So I should be clear.

399
00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:21,880
The house that they were staying at is the lake house.

400
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:26,000
But when they both headed to the train station, Kathy was planning on taking the train to

401
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,000
their apartment.

402
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,640
So they were going to stay separately that night.

403
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,920
I'm assuming because maybe they were in an argument or something.

404
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,920
So Robert said that he watched her get onto the train, headed towards the couple's apartment,

405
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,080
right?

406
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,040
And then that was the last that he physically saw her.

407
00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,200
Robert then came back home and I guess he saw his neighbor Bill outside and decided to

408
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,520
have a drink with his neighbor Bill.

409
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,240
He then went for a walk with the dog.

410
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:56,560
Robert claimed that he then called Kathy from a payphone while on his walk at 11.15 when

411
00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,040
she said that she was just fine watching TV at the apartment.

412
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,200
Okay, so here's all of my alibi.

413
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,200
Bill, the payphone.

414
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,200
Can you ask the dog?

415
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:08,200
I was with the dog.

416
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:09,200
I was with the dog.

417
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,200
You should ask him.

418
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:16,480
No, but the fact that my neighbor Bill, here's his last name, here's where he lives, all

419
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:17,480
of them, here's his number.

420
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:18,480
You know what I mean?

421
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:19,480
It's oddly specific.

422
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:20,480
It is.

423
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:25,480
And then I went to this payphone on the corner of 38th and 1st or whatever.

424
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,200
It's like, I don't know.

425
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:28,200
It's too much.

426
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,440
It's way too many details.

427
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,160
And this is like literally, I mean, again, I think the interrogation video is out there.

428
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:39,400
If not, there's definitely a documentary that has it, but it seems like, hey, how's

429
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,400
it going?

430
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:41,400
Capas?

431
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,400
And then it's like, yeah, here's all my things.

432
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:43,400
Here's all my alibis.

433
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,400
And then, you know.

434
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,400
Like I called her.

435
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,400
She said she was fine.

436
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:47,400
She said she was fine.

437
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,400
She was watching TV.

438
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,400
Can you ask the TV?

439
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:50,400
Yeah.

440
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:51,400
Can you ask the TV?

441
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,400
Can you ask the TV?

442
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,400
Yeah.

443
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:54,400
So Robert then goes home and then goes to sleep.

444
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,920
So police do believe that Kathy did make it to the city because a doorman actually claimed

445
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,640
that he saw Kathy arrive at the apartment building around 11.30.

446
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:03,640
But he called her at 11.15.

447
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:04,640
Right?

448
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:05,640
And then she said, home watching TV.

449
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:06,640
Yes.

450
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,240
Poking a little holes in your story there, Robert.

451
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:14,640
Police further believe that Kathy was actually unharmed by the next morning because she did

452
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:20,560
call into class because she was actually still in courses, I should have said that.

453
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,200
And she was actually three months away from graduating too, as well as at this point.

454
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:30,920
But she had called class, spoke to the dean and said that she wasn't feeling well.

455
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,080
Police at this point believe that she must have just left Robert and then given his controlling

456
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:41,160
nature by accounts of all of her friends and stuff like that, they didn't suspect foul

457
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:42,160
play at all.

458
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:44,040
They just thought that she left.

459
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,160
Kathy's friends convinced that Robert had something to do with Kathy's disappearance

460
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,840
and knowing that the police were losing interest, they began to investigate themselves.

461
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:52,840
Hell yeah.

462
00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:53,840
Right?

463
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:54,840
I know.

464
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:55,840
Bad bitch club.

465
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,440
So one of the more suspicious things that Robert had done following the disappearance of his

466
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:04,960
wife was that he initially had proposed a $100,000 reward for information regarding the

467
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,560
whereabouts of his wife.

468
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:11,440
He then leased into that reward money from $100,000 to $15,000.

469
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,440
What the hell?

470
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,480
From $100,000 to $15,000.

471
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,480
This is in the week.

472
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,640
Okay, so everything that I'm about to tell you right now is within the week before he

473
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:22,880
reports it.

474
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,160
So he's like, oh wait, I'm sorry, my wife, knowledge of my wife is not worth $100,000.

475
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,160
Maybe $15,000.

476
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:29,160
That was a little bit of a typo.

477
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,160
I don't know.

478
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,160
Yeah, what the hell?

479
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,160
My bad.

480
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,320
So again, significantly less than his original offer.

481
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:40,520
So through looking at some of Kathy's diaries that her friends had had or had gotten a hold

482
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,320
of, they actually had broken into Kathy's apartment.

483
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,920
They broke into- I probably wouldn't have too.

484
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,080
Yeah, and they broke into the apartment, the one that she was staying at in New York.

485
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,280
And the entire place had been tossed, completely tossed.

486
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:55,400
Everything had been rearranged.

487
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:57,480
Everything was up on its end.

488
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,520
So through there, they had found Kathy's diaries.

489
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,200
And on several occasions, she had written about the fact that Robert had punched her

490
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:05,440
during several arguments.

491
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,440
Oh no.

492
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,440
Like a lot.

493
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,160
It's not looking good for Robert.

494
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,160
Yes.

495
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,640
So then Robert goes and reports and all sort of stuff.

496
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,560
So about three weeks later after Kathy's disappearance, her friends took garbage from outside of the

497
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:23,600
Robert and Kathy's lake house and just took it off of the sidewalk, I guess.

498
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,640
And they found multiple trash bags containing Kathy's clothes, schoolwork, school books,

499
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,080
and several other personal belongings.

500
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,960
So he was just getting rid of her shit.

501
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:40,280
I understand the need or want to get rid of somebody's stuff after you know that they've

502
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,760
passed, but at this moment, she's still a missing person.

503
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:45,760
She's a missing person.

504
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,120
And he's already tossing her shit out the window.

505
00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:50,120
Highly suss.

506
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:51,120
Yes.

507
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,120
Highly suss.

508
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:56,360
So it was then that the women found something super haunting.

509
00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:03,560
They found a note written in Robert's handwriting saying the words, quote, town, dump, bridge,

510
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:14,400
big, boat, other, shovel, or car, truck, wrench, end quote.

511
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,400
Just like a list.

512
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,400
Yeah.

513
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:17,400
Terrifying.

514
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,880
Her friends were now convinced that Robert absolutely killed Kathy and there was nothing

515
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,800
that they could do about it at this point.

516
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,120
The police took this as circumstantial evidence with no tangible evidence beyond a doubt that

517
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,720
there was nothing to charge Robert with.

518
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,760
I mean, unfortunately, there's not circumstantial.

519
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,120
Because he was, you know, he could just be like, oh, spring cleaning.

520
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,360
I'm just getting rid of some stuff.

521
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:39,400
And the words, I was teaching someone how to read.

522
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,400
Yeah.

523
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,400
Like, write.

524
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:42,400
I don't know.

525
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:49,120
No, that was like dream I had and I was just trying to write it down in my sleep.

526
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,040
I mean, he literally could say anything about that note though and they have no reason to

527
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:54,640
believe him or to not believe it.

528
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,640
I know.

529
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,960
I mean, literally, I mean, it really, town dump, like, okay, I need to run some, I need

530
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,200
to go throw some stuff down at the town dump.

531
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,200
Yeah.

532
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,200
A bridge.

533
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:04,200
I don't know.

534
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,200
Do you need to throw stuff off our bridge?

535
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,200
I mean, I don't know.

536
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,200
Dig, boat, shovel.

537
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,800
It's just, that's kind of scary.

538
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,280
Robert did admit that the relationship had been toxic and that Kathy actually had filed

539
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,160
for divorce about a week before.

540
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,240
He maintained that due to an abortion that he forced her to have years before, Kathy

541
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,200
had become an unpredictable and broken person capable of leaving him without warning.

542
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:29,680
Oh, I wonder fucking why when you force somebody to get an abortion that they're going to

543
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,080
become a little uneasy and go on edge.

544
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,080
Yeah, exactly.

545
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,760
And of course, it's just so sad.

546
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,280
That is so sad.

547
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:41,600
Robert, however, was insistent that Kathy would have finished medical school since she

548
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:42,960
was so close to graduating already.

549
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:43,960
So he was like, okay, I agree.

550
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,960
That is weird that she did medical school.

551
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:46,960
Yeah, of course.

552
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,960
So it's like he's giving them a little bit.

553
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,960
Yeah.

554
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:50,960
But like kind of not.

555
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,960
Like he's trying to be helpful, but it comes off as very suspicious, right?

556
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,480
Like he's like, oh yeah, she did file for divorce.

557
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:58,960
Oh yeah, we did have arguments.

558
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:00,480
Oh yeah, our relationship was toxic.

559
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,240
That is kind of weird if she didn't show up to school.

560
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,640
Yeah, she did hate me because I forced her to have an abortion.

561
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:05,640
Well, she did hate me.

562
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,760
Well, I am your number one suspect.

563
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,760
Yeah.

564
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,760
Besides the point.

565
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:10,760
Yeah.

566
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,160
So that is the story of Kathy McCormick.

567
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:26,640
It is the story of Kathy McCormick.

568
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:27,640
Kathleen.

569
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,640
Kathleen.

570
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:29,640
Her name is Kathleen.

571
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:30,640
Oh, I said Kathleen.

572
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,640
No, not Kathleen.

573
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:32,640
Kathy.

574
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,640
Okay.

575
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,640
Kathy McCormick.

576
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:35,640
Kathy McCormick.

577
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:36,640
Kathy McCormick.

578
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:37,640
She's just gone.

579
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:38,640
That's it.

580
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:44,520
Only 20 years later in 2000, a tip provided in an unrelated case reopened the investigation

581
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:45,920
into Kathy's disappearance.

582
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,400
Oh my God.

583
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,400
Sometimes.

584
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,400
Oh my God.

585
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,400
And 20 years ago.

586
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,400
Yeah.

587
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:52,400
Which is crazy.

588
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,400
Oh yeah, 20 years ago.

589
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,920
Many areas of interest were searched at that time, so in 2000, including Robert and Kathy's

590
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,840
lake house that had been sold long ago.

591
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,640
Divers actually looked into the lake behind the Durst house in a small, like hidden nook

592
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,240
and cranny of the house.

593
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,320
It was like behind like a closet door.

594
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,200
And they, in an interview, the lady that owns the house was like, I didn't even know that

595
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:16,200
door existed.

596
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:17,200
That's terrifying.

597
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,040
Yeah, so they searched all back there.

598
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,520
But they had nothing to show for it.

599
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:22,520
They didn't find anything.

600
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,640
What was the tip that reopened the case?

601
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:31,080
It was an unrelated, it was, some guy had gotten arrested and in order for him to like

602
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:38,160
get a plea deal or whatever it was, he had said that he knew someone who knew that

603
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,400
Robert had killed Kathy.

604
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,760
And again, the details are out there.

605
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,160
So with nothing to show for the investigation, since they didn't find anything, investigators

606
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,880
started turning to first-hand accounts of that night.

607
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,360
In later interviews, Robert would admit that he did not go to the neighbor's house that

608
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,360
he had originally said.

609
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,600
Which is stupid, because he would think that the investigators would be like, who's Bill?

610
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,720
Yeah, no, I was gonna say, did they not talk to Bill?

611
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,880
And Bill definitely was like, I don't even know that guy.

612
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,560
And then 20 years later, Bill's like, thank you.

613
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:10,920
I was trying to fucking tell you.

614
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:16,240
So it was after they had actually, so again, this is 2000, this is 20 years later almost.

615
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,840
And they go to Bill's house and he was like, he was never over here.

616
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,120
And then he was like, hey, we talked to your neighbor and he said you were never over there

617
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,680
and Robert goes, oh yeah, I wasn't.

618
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,040
They didn't think to talk to Bill 20 years before.

619
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,040
No.

620
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,040
Wow.

621
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,680
Wait, this is New York?

622
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:32,680
This is New York, yeah.

623
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,080
I thought it was gonna be the LAPD.

624
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,840
No, this is all New York.

625
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:42,080
He also admitted that he did not speak with Kathy that night on a pay phone.

626
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:46,360
And of course, it's like, when this is found out, this is like 20 years later.

627
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:47,360
Yeah.

628
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,960
And then just like, oh, okay, you talked to Bill, you talked to the pay phone.

629
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:51,960
Yeah, exactly.

630
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,560
Well, because they were already convinced that she just ran away.

631
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,280
Yeah, because, and because of the Dormin's account that he had seen Kathy.

632
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,280
That's ridiculous.

633
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,280
Yeah.

634
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,280
So they didn't think to do any of that, which is real dumb.

635
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,560
And this asshole lied and got away with it for 20 years.

636
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:06,560
Yeah.

637
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:07,560
And then he just told them.

638
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,840
His excuse was that he's like, well, I just figured it would all just go away.

639
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,920
Like I would just say, oh, yeah, I was here.

640
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,440
I was there and I did talk to her.

641
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,400
And he's like, because I was convinced she just left me.

642
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:20,400
So yeah.

643
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,800
All right, we'll see.

644
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,880
One of Kathy's friends around this time told police to talk to Susan Berman.

645
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,360
Do you remember Susan Berman?

646
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:30,120
That's his best friend.

647
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:34,960
So Susan was actually a successful writer at this point and she wrote her experiences

648
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,320
about being a mafia princess.

649
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,040
That was like her thing.

650
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,520
So she loved her father and actually idolized him in his professions.

651
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,480
Some people believe that's why Susan and Robert got along so well is that they both

652
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,520
had financially powerful dads like father figures.

653
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,960
So Susan actually lost her father at a very young age.

654
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,680
He was also murdered.

655
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,720
Susan had actually attached to Robert in a way that some found really unusual.

656
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,560
It was said that she would protect him at all costs and that their friendship was described

657
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,640
by Susan as quote special.

658
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,400
At the time of Kathy's disappearance in 1982, Susan had become actually the spokesperson

659
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,120
on Robert's behalf.

660
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,640
And she dealt with all of the media.

661
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,920
And I think it was more because she was exposed to media and being interviewed and things

662
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,240
like that because she's a writer.

663
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,320
But it was it's a little weird.

664
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,240
Susan could be incredibly persuasive with the media when it came to speculation as to

665
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,680
where Kathy was or potentially could be.

666
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,240
The quote, why I put quote or so.

667
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:44,400
So the Dirst family had actually come out saying that unnamed friends or family had

668
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,200
actually heard from Kathy weeks after her disappearance.

669
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,160
Oh, but we're going to just like leave them anonymous so that you can't confirm them.

670
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,160
Exactly.

671
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,400
So they were pretty much eating up anything that Susan was willing to give them as far

672
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,640
as speculation of where Kathy could be.

673
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,080
But yeah, it seemingly cooperated that runaway theory.

674
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,600
So the following years after Kathy's disappearance, Susan actually stayed in New York to support

675
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,440
Robert emotionally and would then leave back to Beverly Hills, California.

676
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:20,360
This is again during Kathy's disappearance in 1982 and then now we're fast forwarding

677
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,360
to 2000.

678
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:27,520
So she's still living in California, Hollywood, California or Beverly Hills.

679
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:32,120
So they basically are reopening up this case because of the new evidence that they found

680
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:37,520
and the fact that Robert had lied several times to the police and they're actually doing

681
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,000
interviews.

682
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:47,120
So Susan Berman actually is approached by NYPD and Robert recalls a phone conversation

683
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,960
that he had with Susan over the topic of the case.

684
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,080
And Robert says that Susan said she was approached by police to talk about Kathy and was saying

685
00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:00,520
that she can't believe that police are investigating this again and that it must be terrible for

686
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,160
him to have to experience all these old wounds again.

687
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:07,200
Oh, it must be terrible for him to have to go through all of this.

688
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,040
It's not terrible that, speculating here, Kathy got murdered.

689
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,640
That's not terrible.

690
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,200
But it's terrible that, oh poor Robert, the guy that fucking did it, has to go through

691
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,200
the pain and agony.

692
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Whatever.

693
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:18,960
If anything, he's getting a fucking boner thinking about that.

694
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,760
He's really a fucking creepo.

695
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,880
Sorry.

696
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,320
So, again, this is all Robert's account, right?

697
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,320
Yeah.

698
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:27,320
So this is all Robert's account.

699
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,280
This is what he said him and Susan were talking about.

700
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,680
And actually that was the last time Robert said he ever spoke to Susan.

701
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:33,680
Okay.

702
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,920
And also Sus.

703
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,920
So on Christmas Eve, police recall.

704
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:38,920
Wait.

705
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,920
No, she's got it.

706
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,920
Don't say it.

707
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,920
It's gonna happen.

708
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,880
Okay, go.

709
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:55,880
On Christmas Eve, police recalled about a suspicious set of circumstances.

710
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,880
No.

711
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,600
You should know my writing by now.

712
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,560
On Christmas Eve, police recalled about a suspicious set of circumstances.

713
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:11,080
A neighbor found Susan's beloved Fox Terrier outside of the residence with the back door

714
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,080
wide open.

715
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,080
He was alive.

716
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,080
It's okay.

717
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:15,080
He was alive.

718
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,880
They just thought it was unusual that the dog was running around by himself.

719
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:23,320
Police arrived and found Susan Berman shot to death as she laid on her bedroom floor.

720
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,120
Oh my God.

721
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,000
The house was in a very neat state.

722
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,880
The front door had still been deadbolted and it gave the indication that likely she knew

723
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,880
whoever it was.

724
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,160
Yeah, she let him in.

725
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,840
They clearly weren't there to rob her because nothing was touched, really.

726
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,880
Immediately rumors circulated that Robert had something to do with it.

727
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:43,880
You don't say.

728
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,120
It's well known that investigators had an interest in talking with Susan about the 1982

729
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:53,040
disappearance of Robert's wife, but mostly there was talk that Susan would be going national

730
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,560
and talking about the circumstances involving it.

731
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,680
And he's like, oh no, you don't?

732
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:58,680
Yeah.

733
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,680
Oh no.

734
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,680
Because, yeah.

735
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,080
Okay, this, come on.

736
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,680
He has to get caught now.

737
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:08,080
So the police were more convinced that Susan's murder was likely a mob hit.

738
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,840
The police, the LAPD.

739
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,920
They're like, oh, well, she wrote books about being a mafia princess and that apparently,

740
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,600
according to her friends, that she had stumbled upon something big and was going to release

741
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:20,600
that nationally as well.

742
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:21,600
Sounds like the LAPD.

743
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,600
Right?

744
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,600
Doing their best job ever.

745
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,600
Just doing the job.

746
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,320
Great job.

747
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,440
So a few days after Susan's body was found, the Beverly Hills Police Department received

748
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,000
a strange letter.

749
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:40,600
The envelope was addressed to Beverly Hills PD, but misspelled was the word Beverly.

750
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:47,640
It was spelled B-E-V-E-R-L-E-Y, not Beverly without the E at the end.

751
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,160
And it was postmarked for the 23rd of December, 2000.

752
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,800
She was found Christmas Eve, which is the 24th, but the postmark was for the 23rd, was

753
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,840
the day before.

754
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:04,240
The letter and the envelope stated 1527 Benedict Canyon, cadaver.

755
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,760
That's it.

756
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,480
So her address with the word cadaver.

757
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:14,920
So it sounds a lot like his old note that was found with just the random words.

758
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,840
Like a list.

759
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:22,560
And if any listeners don't know what cadaver is, it is, well, if I'm not mistaken, it

760
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,560
might have multiple meanings, but it's what-

761
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:25,560
It's a dead body.

762
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:26,560
Yeah, it is a dead body.

763
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:27,560
It's a body.

764
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,600
I think about like, surgeons and trainings that they can learn.

765
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:37,400
But like, the fact that someone, okay, so clearly it was postmarked on the 23rd, meaning

766
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,320
that someone knew there was a dead body in that house.

767
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,800
And the only times that usually anybody does that is when they know the person, they don't

768
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,320
want that person sitting there.

769
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:49,320
You know what I mean?

770
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Yeah.

771
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,920
It's the same reason why people like cover their faces and stuff is because they know

772
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:53,920
them personally.

773
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,920
So it's like, he loves her enough to be like, I don't want her sitting in there.

774
00:33:58,920 --> 00:33:59,920
Yeah, bullshit.

775
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:00,920
Isn't that creepy?

776
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:01,920
Oh, it's so creepy.

777
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:02,920
That is really creepy.

778
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:08,000
So at this point, the mafia was eliminated because they were like, the mafia doesn't

779
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,000
do that shit.

780
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,480
They're not going to send us a fucking little care.

781
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:17,600
But Robert was also identified to have been in California in the area a few days before

782
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,000
Susan Berman's murder.

783
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,200
Oh, that's just such a co-winky dink, isn't it?

784
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,120
He actually left the night before her body was found.

785
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,120
Also a co-winky dink.

786
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,400
So probably after he sent that letter, he was just like, gotta get the fuck out of here.

787
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,880
So a ledger was actually found by investigators in Susan Berman's house that stated that Robert

788
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,560
Durst had given Susan $50,000 because she was falling on hard times.

789
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:42,560
And she actually had-

790
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,320
And she probably has hush money and she was like, no.

791
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:46,320
Exactly.

792
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,320
And that's what I think.

793
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,320
I think it's hush money.

794
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:49,320
Well, then she was like, I think she knew.

795
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:50,320
I think she knew.

796
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,640
But I'm still going to put out this whatever it is, a statement.

797
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:55,640
Right.

798
00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:00,160
Or maybe he wasn't going to risk her saying something.

799
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,440
So Robert actually did not even attend Susan's funeral.

800
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,200
In an estranged turn of events, Susan's stepson actually became increasingly close with Robert

801
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,920
after this happened.

802
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,440
Robert actually offered to pay for her stepson's college graduation, full ride.

803
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:15,440
Hush money.

804
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:16,440
Hush money.

805
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,600
Guilty conscience, maybe?

806
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:18,600
Uh-huh.

807
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:24,600
Susan's stepson actually made plans with Robert to have dinner one week after- in a week or

808
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,320
so after all this happened.

809
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,880
But Robert would never make it to that dinner.

810
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,880
Okay.

811
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:31,880
In Galveston, Texas.

812
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:32,880
Oh my gosh.

813
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,880
We're bouncing everywhere with stuff.

814
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:35,880
There's so much stuff.

815
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,520
So again, that's all the New York stuff, right?

816
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,880
So now we're going to Texas, Galveston, Texas.

817
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:47,360
So in late September 2001, a teenage boy was fishing in the Galveston Bay when he came

818
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,720
upon a human torso floating in the water.

819
00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:52,720
Right.

820
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:53,720
Okay.

821
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:54,720
Right.

822
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:59,000
When the hunters arrived at the scene, they began to retrieve pieces of an adult male content

823
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:00,000
warning.

824
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,920
They found a torso, two legs, two arms, and they were all found in black plastic bags

825
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,680
floating along the shoreline.

826
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,560
But a head was never recovered.

827
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,040
The medical examiner had determined that in order, the right leg had been cut, the left

828
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:18,640
leg had been cut, the left arm, the neck, and then the right arm.

829
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:23,520
Maybe for things like I'm not savvy in how they determine the other orders, but they

830
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,800
knew that the right arm was blast since the blade had dulled to the point to where the

831
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:29,200
arm needed to be broken.

832
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,200
Oh, God.

833
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:37,400
Well, it also was, I don't know if it's like pooling or the way that the blood, like you

834
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,920
can tell if a cut has been made pre or postmortem.

835
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,200
So maybe one of those was made.

836
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,640
Well, it was also found in the water though.

837
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,240
So I'm saying, I mean, you can still kind of tell if it like the way that the blood

838
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,120
pools around the wound, like if the blood was still pumping when you cut the organs.

839
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:53,120
Yeah.

840
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,680
I think that's how they determined that first.

841
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,480
So along with the body parts, some trash was actually recovered in the bags as well.

842
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:07,560
So a newspaper found inside the trash bag gave an address to a Dorothy Siner who lived

843
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,320
in an apartment in a like a quadplex.

844
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,600
So there's like four, you know, apartments in one building and she lived in apartment

845
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:15,760
two.

846
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,760
So the detectives got to the location of the apartment on 2213 Avenue K in Galveston,

847
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:27,040
Texas, and they actually saw a blood trail leading from the street up into the stairs

848
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,880
of like going up to the residence.

849
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:29,880
Literally what an idiot.

850
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,280
Whoever did this, what an idiot.

851
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,240
So Kloss Dillman was actually the landlord and of course they called him to the scene

852
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:39,840
when they found out, you know, where this location was.

853
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,440
And he was asked to describe all of his tenants.

854
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:49,360
He described, there was two, I think, I think one of the apartments upstairs was vacant,

855
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:54,080
maybe both, but either way, he definitely had two tenants.

856
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:59,280
Tenant apartment number one is 70 year old Morris Black who was a homeless shelter volunteer

857
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,880
and an apartment number two lived Dorothy Siner.

858
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,200
She was an older lady who was deaf and mute, who mostly kept to herself, but she did travel

859
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,200
a lot.

860
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,800
When asked, Kloss said that she was not an attractive woman.

861
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,040
A woman with small busts were not his type.

862
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,840
But what intrigued him about Dorothy coming to apply for his apartment was that she wanted

863
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:23,160
to pay for a whole year in advance and that she regularly traveled.

864
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,560
But when she was home, she was very quiet tenant and there was never any complaints from her

865
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,840
or other residents in the community about her.

866
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,640
Except for that blood trail coming from the street to her front door.

867
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,440
She never had any visitors with the exception of her son-in-law who would come by regularly

868
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,080
to check on Dorothy to keep her company or to house it for her.

869
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,640
Police received a search warrant for apartments one and two.

870
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,320
There was actually blood found in the hallway as well in between the two apartments.

871
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,000
In Morris Black's apartment, there was no evidence whatsoever of foul play.

872
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:56,800
However, in apartment two in the kitchen, there were multiple cups in the linoleum of

873
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,160
the floor.

874
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,880
Like very deliberate saw marks were scattered all over the floor.

875
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,160
Like what happens when you saw limbs off of a body?

876
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:06,160
Probably.

877
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,800
Investigators then tore up pieces of the linoleum and underneath the cups they found blood stains

878
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,440
that had soaked through the floorboards.

879
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,800
Pills were taken and it was determined that the blood belonged to the body they found

880
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:18,800
in the bay.

881
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:19,800
Okay, how did this lady do that?

882
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:20,800
Hold on, go ahead.

883
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,080
Fingerprints determine that the body was that of Morris Black.

884
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:24,080
What?

885
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,080
It's a resident from apartment one.

886
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,080
What?

887
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:32,080
I thought it was going to be the body of Robert.

888
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,080
Okay, go ahead.

889
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,720
Oh my gosh, what a plot twist.

890
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:37,720
This story, man.

891
00:39:37,720 --> 00:39:42,040
Everyone's like, Ken, I should have if I wanted to hear the rest.

892
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,680
So already that's fucked up enough, right?

893
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,680
Yeah.

894
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,120
It's already fucked up.

895
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,080
While at the scene, investigators noticed that the number two apartment was a little

896
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:51,080
strange.

897
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,960
There was absolutely no signs that a woman lived there, let alone anyone.

898
00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:00,160
The apartment was pretty much bare, other than like a TV and like a full-doubt chair.

899
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,720
So who's this lady?

900
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,840
She's never home and when she is, it's like living with a ghost.

901
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,920
She has plenty of money to travel but yet she lives in an apartment in a really not

902
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,160
nice area.

903
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,080
The rent is only $300 a month but she pays a year in advance.

904
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,160
It's a little weird, right?

905
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,880
So at this point, police suspect it's a cover-up of some kind.

906
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:26,560
Police searched the trash cans outside and through all of these very non-feminine items,

907
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,000
they find a receipt for a hardware store.

908
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,520
Specifically on this list included knives, tarps, and a bosa.

909
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,120
They also find a receipt for an eyeglass's place.

910
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:42,880
The receipt was filled out by Robert Durst.

911
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,800
When detectives call the clinic, they say that the clinic said that Robert was supposed

912
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,860
to pick up his glasses last Friday but just as a caution, the detective left his name

913
00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:54,400
and number in case he did decide to swing by and get his glasses.

914
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,960
So sure enough, eventually the detective was called by the glasses shop after Durst came

915
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:00,880
to pick up his glasses.

916
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:09,000
They pull him over and Durst was compliant but officers did notice a bosa in the backseat.

917
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,080
What a fucking idiot.

918
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:15,280
First impressions from detectives are like, what is this guy?

919
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,200
Who is this guy?

920
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,960
One of the officers described him as looking like a librarian because he's a very small

921
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,680
petite man.

922
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,640
They take him down to the station and they talk about all of this incriminating evidence

923
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,880
and where Moritz Black is and all this stuff and he says that he doesn't really know what's

924
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,560
going on, he doesn't want to talk, and he asks if he needs bill money basically.

925
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,360
He's like, I won't talk to you until I talk to a lawyer.

926
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:43,800
It was then explained to him that he was being arrested for homicide and that it was a $250,000

927
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,800
bond.

928
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,320
But it's circumstantial at best.

929
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,160
They don't have any physical evidence of him yet.

930
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:54,000
Well they know that he was killed in this apartment that he pretty much lives in and

931
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:55,000
he signed.

932
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,760
You know, clearly he was there.

933
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,320
Look who is he paying this lady?

934
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,320
Maybe she's not deaf and mute.

935
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,320
Oh my god, maybe she's not.

936
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,480
She's just pretending.

937
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:04,480
Go ahead.

938
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,320
This is how my mind works.

939
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,320
Did you not get it yet?

940
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:18,160
Is he the lady?

941
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,880
He is Dorothy Sinner.

942
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:31,800
On top of everything else, he is now posing as a woman, an elderly woman.

943
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,400
I thought that he was paying an elderly woman to live there.

944
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,200
Not live there but pretend like she was a woman.

945
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,200
No, that's what I'm saying.

946
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:44,800
When Klaus, I mean, she was a very unattractive woman, small bust or not my thing.

947
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:45,800
It's come full circle.

948
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,800
Wow, that took me too long.

949
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,800
Did you not get it yet?

950
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,520
So at this point again, he's been placed under arrest for homicide and that the bail

951
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,840
is $250,000.

952
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,800
When asked if he had that kind of money, Durst calmly says, well, not on me.

953
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:03,800
Ew.

954
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:04,800
Yeah.

955
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:05,920
What an arrogant fucking prick.

956
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,720
One quick phone call to his wife would do the trick.

957
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:10,720
That's right.

958
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,160
He was remarried at this time.

959
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,480
That's right, both of us.

960
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,480
Yeah, I heard it, yeah.

961
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,520
He did, he remarried and he was actually married to a well-off real estate broker named

962
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:21,520
Deborah Cheriton.

963
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,520
Cheriton, Cheriton.

964
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,240
The two had actually been married since December of 2000.

965
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:31,880
This was after Durst had gone missing from New York and had made the move to Galveston.

966
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,760
Yeah, this is like the same year that Susan died, like the same month that she got remarried.

967
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,000
So with all of this, them trying to reopen up the case and all that sort of stuff, he

968
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,520
married this woman and then escaped to Galveston.

969
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:44,520
Oh my gosh.

970
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,520
Yes, or vice versa.

971
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,040
So although Deborah would deny she knew anything about the apartment in Galveston during this

972
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,600
time or whatever, Durst later claimed that his marriage to Deborah was solely out of desperation

973
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:01,080
to protect his assets and was described as, quote, a marriage of conveniences, not for

974
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,080
love.

975
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,280
I mean, sounds like it to me.

976
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:04,280
Right.

977
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,200
And you should, oh my gosh, you should see this woman be interviewed.

978
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,920
She's just like, maybe it was this, maybe it was that.

979
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,120
I don't really know.

980
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,400
She's really aloof.

981
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,600
She knows what she's doing.

982
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:14,120
She's a smart woman.

983
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:19,560
16 days after Durst bonded out of jail, he was supposed to appear in court for a hearing.

984
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,360
He did not show.

985
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,760
He was still indicted on charges of murder.

986
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,840
After a seven week long manhunt, Durst was found shoplifting, a chicken salad sandwich,

987
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,080
and some band-aids from a grocery store.

988
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:33,480
Man just loves his sandwiches.

989
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,240
Keep in mind, he has $500 cash on him.

990
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,200
What a fucking idiot.

991
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,960
He just did it because he wanted to.

992
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:41,960
Yeah.

993
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:42,960
He just can't help himself.

994
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,400
He loves sandwiches so much.

995
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:51,480
He was found with an arsenal in his car, guns, $41,000 in cash, weed, even Morris Black's

996
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:52,480
driver's license.

997
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,280
Oh, what a sick fuck.

998
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:55,280
Yeah.

999
00:44:55,280 --> 00:45:00,760
It was also found that at that time, he was actually stalking his brother to the point

1000
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,840
that Douglas had hired private security to monitor his family.

1001
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,840
Oh, that's so scary.

1002
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:07,840
Yeah.

1003
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,360
Durst was actually extradited to Texas for his trial, which did not occur until 2003.

1004
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:17,320
A psychiatrist spent over 70 hours examining Durst and diagnosed him with Asperger's syndrome,

1005
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:22,960
saying, quote, his whole life story is so compatible with the diagnosis of Asperger's

1006
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,920
disorder, end quote.

1007
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:29,960
His defense team argued at the trial that the diagnosis explained his odd behavior.

1008
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,400
The defense maintained that Durst and Black had actually become friends.

1009
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:35,840
They spent time together almost every day.

1010
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,480
The prosecution insisted that Morris had found out who Robert actually was and that's why

1011
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:41,480
he killed him.

1012
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,480
I mean, yeah.

1013
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:43,480
It seems to me.

1014
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:44,480
Yeah, exactly.

1015
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,360
The defense says that Robert acted in self-defense.

1016
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,080
He said that one day when he came home, Morris Black had broken into his apartment and when

1017
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,400
he walked in, Morris had found Robert's.22 caliber pistol.

1018
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,360
Durst did confess to dismembering Black's body, saying that he used a paring knife,

1019
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,560
two saws, and an axe.

1020
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:06,240
Given that Black's head was never recovered, there lacked sufficient forensic evidence

1021
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,440
to convict Robert Durst for murder.

1022
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:10,440
Not even kidding.

1023
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,800
So he confessed to dismembering him?

1024
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:17,280
Okay, so then get him on mutilation of a corpse at least.

1025
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:18,280
He was murder?

1026
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,920
No, he totally didn't.

1027
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,080
He was acquitted of murder in November of 2003.

1028
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:29,600
However, in December of the following year, 2004, Durst confessed to tampering with evidence

1029
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,960
charge as well as skipping his bail.

1030
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,360
He was sentenced to five years with time served for a total of three years in prison for the

1031
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:37,360
crimes.

1032
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,960
However, Durst was released on July 15, 2005.

1033
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,280
He never got tried for the other two murders?

1034
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:46,400
There's not enough sufficient evidence.

1035
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,640
They haven't brought him to trial for those years.

1036
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:48,640
So he's out right now?

1037
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,120
Well, listen, there's more.

1038
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,120
Oh my God.

1039
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,760
I'm like, should we hide?

1040
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,640
So that's for Morris Black, right?

1041
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,480
Holy crap.

1042
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,040
So yeah, that's the whole Morris Black story.

1043
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:01,040
Holy crap.

1044
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,440
So he, because they were basically saying like defense said it was self-defense, prosecution

1045
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,960
said that he just killed him because he found out he was Robert Durst.

1046
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,960
But because there was no head and he claimed to have shot him in the head, the rest of

1047
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:15,240
the body had no trauma other than the dismemberment.

1048
00:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,800
So they couldn't prove murder or self-defense.

1049
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,600
That's why he only got tampering with evidence.

1050
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,440
Even though he's like, yeah, I chopped him up in my kitchen.

1051
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:24,440
He did.

1052
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:25,440
Yeah, he totally admitted to that.

1053
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,280
Oh my God, that's so fucking ridiculous.

1054
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,080
Isn't that ridiculous?

1055
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,120
Ten years later, a docuseries called The Jinx was released on HBO.

1056
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,520
And I'm sure maybe if you guys are true crime fanatics, you probably already watched it.

1057
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,880
The docuseries documents the accounts of the disappearance of Kathy Durst, the murder of

1058
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,680
Susan Berman and the killing of Morris Black.

1059
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,240
Against the advice of his new wife, Deborah, and his lawyers, Robert Durst gave first account

1060
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:52,960
interviews and almost unrestricted access to documents.

1061
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:58,040
The documentary ends with Durst moving into a bathroom where his microphone is still on

1062
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,240
and he doesn't realize it.

1063
00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:01,240
Hot mic.

1064
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:02,240
Hot mic.

1065
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,800
He's seemingly saying to himself, there it is.

1066
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:05,800
You're caught.

1067
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,360
You're right, of course, but you can't imagine.

1068
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:10,360
Rest him.

1069
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:11,760
I don't know what's in the house.

1070
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,840
I want this.

1071
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:15,600
What a disaster.

1072
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:16,600
He was right.

1073
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:17,600
I was wrong.

1074
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:18,600
The burping.

1075
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,600
I'm having difficulty with the question.

1076
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,320
What the hell do I do?

1077
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,560
What did I do?

1078
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:24,560
Kill them all, of course.

1079
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:31,480
I don't like that at all.

1080
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,400
What he's referring to when he's saying the burping is that when the questions start getting

1081
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,520
really difficult, he starts having this acid reflux thing.

1082
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,480
It's like in the very last episode, it's haunting.

1083
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:42,480
Yeah.

1084
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,040
I got to get out of here.

1085
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,040
My overseas.

1086
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:53,600
So with newfound evidence acquired during the docuseries, prosecutors actually had sufficient

1087
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,040
amount of evidence to take Durst in on charges of murder.

1088
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:01,360
On the day that the last episode of the Jinx was to air, Durst was arrested for murder

1089
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,680
for the murder of Susan Berman.

1090
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,520
He was arrested in New Orleans posing under the alias of Everett Ward.

1091
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:14,040
Again, arrested with various IDs, weed, guns, ammo, different clothing styles, new cell phones,

1092
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,440
and the list goes on.

1093
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,400
He was denied bail at this point, but first he had to go through weapons charges in Louisiana

1094
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,320
because he was found with all of this stuff before being extradited to California for

1095
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,120
the murder of Susan Berman.

1096
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,840
He pleaded guilty to all charges and was to serve an 85-month prison sentence.

1097
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,240
This was handed down in February of 2016.

1098
00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:37,640
So this is within a year of the Jinx.

1099
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,640
But he only got 85 months for murder?

1100
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,920
No, this is for the weapons charge.

1101
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:46,280
So when he was found, he had all these guns and all this stuff, and he was a felon.

1102
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,880
So after getting everyone together, there was a lot of trouble getting everyone together

1103
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,560
for the trial in California.

1104
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,280
Durst actually went under for surgery.

1105
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,360
He went in for surgery, and Hurricane Harvey happened on the East Coast.

1106
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,080
So getting the lawyers together, all this other stuff.

1107
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:07,040
So the trial didn't start for the murder of Susan Berman until 2018.

1108
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,880
Robert's best friend at his wedding testified that Durst had actually confessed to him that

1109
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,360
he killed Susan because of she knew about Kathy.

1110
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:20,160
In the trial, a handwriting analysis suggested that Durst had written the letter to police,

1111
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,440
the one that was misspelled.

1112
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,760
The defense claimed that no evidence was presented in the Daki series that was new information,

1113
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,160
that the director was in cahoots with law enforcement, and that together they built

1114
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,760
a scheme to publicize and market the film.

1115
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:33,760
Oh, what the fuck ever.

1116
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:34,760
So stupid.

1117
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,240
So then COVID happens, woo.

1118
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,160
And so dates keep getting pushed back.

1119
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:43,120
It decided April 2021, then May 2021.

1120
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,840
Durst's attorney said that Durst was having complications with bladder cancer, postponed

1121
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,720
until June, then July, more complications, and it's thought at this point that Durst

1122
00:50:52,720 --> 00:50:54,680
was just faking medical conditions.

1123
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,600
So then he just didn't have to go.

1124
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,200
Really like there's more testimony.

1125
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,600
Douglas testifies against his brother, again citing years of bad blood and a sphere of

1126
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:03,600
his brother.

1127
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:08,520
In late July, once again, defense attorneys tried to push back more dates of the trial.

1128
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,360
At this point, it was denied, thankfully, because it's been forever.

1129
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:17,320
On September 17th, Robert Durst was actually convicted of the murder of Susan Berman, and

1130
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:22,480
on October 14th, he was sentenced to life imprisonment without the possibility of parole.

1131
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,440
All appeals have been denied.

1132
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:29,360
Since Susan Berman's murder trial, more accusations of connections between Durst and missing young

1133
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,120
ladies have surfaced.

1134
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,800
One girl that was known to frequent the health food store that Durst owned, she was actually

1135
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:39,080
seen across the street from the store on the day of her disappearance.

1136
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:44,280
Another girl went missing after she worked a shift at a homeless shelter that Durst was

1137
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:45,520
known to frequent.

1138
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,000
He had also been seen dressed as a woman in the girl's family bakery the day that she

1139
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:51,000
disappeared.

1140
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:56,000
There's also been connections to Durst's disposal MO in other counties that he's lived

1141
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:57,600
in over the years as well.

1142
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:02,440
In October, 2021, Robert Durst contracted COVID, and this was exacerbating underlying

1143
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,000
medical conditions.

1144
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,920
He was placed on a ventilator and pretty much suffered until he ultimately died of cardiac

1145
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,920
arrest on January 10th, 2022.

1146
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:12,920
Holy crap!

1147
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:13,920
Okay, there's your birthday.

1148
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:14,920
My birthday!

1149
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:15,920
I know!

1150
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:16,920
Happy birthday!

1151
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:17,920
Oh, so that was like the other day!

1152
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:18,920
Yeah.

1153
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:19,920
Wow!

1154
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,880
So, what are the picking cases that have had updates like recently?

1155
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:27,000
Well, you were gonna, we were gonna record that like literally 10 days after he died.

1156
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Yeah.

1157
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:29,000
Holy crap!

1158
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,840
Well, so he never got convicted of Kathy's murder?

1159
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,560
No, he was never convicted of Kathy's murder.

1160
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,680
Kathleen McCormick has never been found.

1161
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:40,080
Her parents asked that she be declared legally deceased in July, 2016.

1162
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,720
The McCormick family had asked the courts to quote, declare that Kathy died on January

1163
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:49,440
31st, 1982, when she was murdered by her husband Robert Durst.

1164
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,960
The court granted the request and Kathleen was declared dead in absentee in 2017.

1165
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:54,960
Oh, that's so awful.

1166
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:56,960
I can't imagine that.

1167
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:57,960
I know.

1168
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,240
Never getting that justice or that closure.

1169
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:01,240
World one of a story.

1170
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:02,240
Oh my gosh, I know!

1171
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,760
This is literally just the tip of the iceberg.

1172
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,760
If you want to like know more, the Jinx documentary is insane.

1173
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:07,760
Yeah.

1174
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,200
It's like a four, four, five, or six part docuseries.

1175
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,200
It's really good.

1176
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,520
That was a really, I don't think, I don't, so I didn't, I recognize the name probably

1177
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:17,680
because it's current.

1178
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:18,680
Yeah.

1179
00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:19,680
But I did not know that.

1180
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:20,680
Yeah.

1181
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:21,680
Okay, so wow.

1182
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,360
Like his whole life he was a shithead.

1183
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,240
Yeah, that's heavy.

1184
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:29,440
And don't let the diagnosis of Asperger's fool you.

1185
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:33,800
That's a very real diagnosis, a very real disorder.

1186
00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,600
But that does not cause you to act like that.

1187
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:41,320
There's definitely something else going on.

1188
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:46,400
And there's narcissism there.

1189
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,640
There's definitely a personality disorder in there.

1190
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:55,640
And the way that he holds himself is like this arrogance that you just really don't

1191
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:57,320
see very often.

1192
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:02,080
Yeah, it's very uncommon that we've seen, not uncommon, but it's different than what

1193
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:03,080
we've seen.

1194
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,440
Oh, he's got haunting shark eyes too.

1195
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:06,440
You should see his Wikipedia.

1196
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:07,440
He had.

1197
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:08,440
He had.

1198
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:10,520
Oh, yeah, he had.

1199
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:12,640
It's just an incredible story.

1200
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:18,200
And you know, I just, with Kathleen McCormick, I feel so badly for her family that she can't

1201
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:19,200
be brought home.

1202
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,960
And like after so long, you know, 82.

1203
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:23,960
That's so sad.

1204
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,800
That was a really, really good case though.

1205
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:27,800
Thank you for sharing.

1206
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,840
Yeah, it's got a lot of twists and turns.

1207
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:34,640
If you have any information about Kathleen McCormick's disappearance or about any of

1208
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:40,240
the girls that they think may be linked to Robert Durst or any of the girls that they

1209
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:44,240
think may be linked to Robert Durst, I'm sure there's some place that you can call and

1210
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:48,840
there's a tip line, I'm sure there is still open or just call your local police and get

1211
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:49,840
that information if you have it.

1212
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:54,440
I mean, no one should have to live life worrying or wondering what happened to their child.

1213
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:55,440
Yeah, it's really sad.

1214
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:56,440
It's awful.

1215
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,640
But yeah, he affected a lot of people for sure.

1216
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,920
I mean, knowing that like his own brother is terrified of him, that's like, that's scary.

1217
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:03,920
That is scary.

1218
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:05,920
Well, thanks for sharing.

1219
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:06,920
Yeah, it was intense.

1220
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,880
Yeah, thank you guys so much for being patient with us yet again.

1221
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,520
Now that I am no longer working and I think we have a lot more, I guess, free time, especially

1222
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:21,680
towards the end of the week, we need to get back to doing a case and a case and a mental

1223
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:22,960
breakdown a week.

1224
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:24,760
So we're really going to try to do that.

1225
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,320
We're going to put this one out probably, I guess you're going to be hearing this tonight,

1226
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,560
Friday night or Saturday morning and then mental breakdown, I'll probably just throw

1227
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:33,880
out on like Monday or Tuesday.

1228
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,160
So you don't have to wait that long and then we'll be back with another case next week.

1229
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,160
Sweet.

1230
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,480
In the meantime, you guys can follow us on Instagram at DiagnosingAKiller.

1231
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:46,280
We have Twitter at KillerDiagnosis, DiagnosingAKiller at gmail.com and if you want to donate

1232
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,800
to the Patreon, that is patreon.com slash DiagnosingAKiller.

1233
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,680
We're on every platform that you listen to podcasts on.

1234
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:58,400
So if you don't like Apple podcasts, we're on Buzzsprout, we're on Spotify, find us there.

1235
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,400
Anything else?

1236
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:00,400
No.

1237
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:01,400
All right, we missed you and we love you.

1238
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:02,400
Love you.

1239
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:12,400
Bye.