Dun-nun-nun-nuh.
Ba-dun-nun-nun-nuh.
Beep-beep-beep.
I believe in miracles.
Ha ha.
Where you from?
You're so fine.
Sorry to learn.
Hello.
I am Kenna.
I am Koelle.
And Kenna.
Kenna.
Always.
Still sick over here.
Welcome back to diagnosing a ke-la.
Yeah.
Do you like ke-la?
I know.
Mmm.
That kawafi.
I know!
I was just a little slay-na.
I was just coffee.
The kawafi.
I feel like my teeth are jittering.
Jittering.
I like that.
I like that a-
Oh-oh-oh!
I like-
When you're like-
When you're walking towards somebody but you don't know which way to go and you're like-
I was like-
I can forward.
Oh, I'm still in that.
The white side of me always goes, it was lovely dancing with you.
Oh my god.
Shit, why people say.
That's so funny.
Alright, I think we are getting back into Randy Kraft Part 2 today.
Part 2.
So, we did go over the, you know, his kills.
And when he ultimately got cut and I think we're talking about the trial.
So yeah, the first episode was mostly all victims.
I mean, it's-
It was a doozy of victims.
For sure.
I hope everybody enjoyed our little blooper reel at the end.
Just some harmless bloopers, but that was such a heavy episode.
I think that everybody that stayed through it deserved that little bit of comedic relief.
It was good.
It's funny to hear all of those things in a compilation.
Right.
And just thinking for some reason, I like to fantasize about like our future fans, like
asking us things we're talking to us.
And I was thinking how funny would it be if we didn't do any editing one time and just
played the entire clip like the way that it is.
Because I edit a lot.
Like I edit like the pauses.
I edit the ums.
I edit a lot of stuff that we don't, you know, it's hard when you're talking for an hour
to not mess up.
And so it would be funny to see it or to hear it, you know, from them.
Because from their perspective, we sound perfect, right?
Like if the information comes out correctly, it comes out, it's pronounced correctly and
stuff, but we're over here like googling stuff sometimes.
How do you pronounce that?
Yeah, roofland, exactly.
So I think it would be funny, maybe, you know, maybe like a mental breakdown, something
short, but yeah, if I didn't edit at all and just posted that.
It is kind of funny to think that there's...
I lost my train of thought.
That it's never one take.
Yeah.
Never one take.
Never.
And then when you hear like other podcasts, like you know that they're doing just as much
editing as we are, but you'll never know, you know.
And I think sometimes I can catch it like when I hear something that probably should have
been left in there and it was, I was like, oh, you got it.
All right.
Anyways.
Randy Kraft.
Yes.
When we last left off, Randy Kraft was pulled over for suspicion of driving while intoxicated.
Because that's when they found Terry Lee Gambrill who had been murdered in the passenger seat.
Imagine being that cop.
Like you're pulling someone over thinking, okay, this drunk idiot, just know whatever.
And then you find a literal corpse in the passenger seat.
You think it's a drunk guy driving is even more drunk or a friend or something.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Oh my God, I can't imagine that poor thing.
So Kraft was initially charged with driving while under the influence.
And he was held in custody as detectives conducted a pretty thorough search of his vehicle.
So in the rear seat of the car, investigators actually found a belt where the width itself
was consistent with the ligature marks that were on Gambrill's neck.
Wow.
So straight up like their murder weapon.
Very clear evidence.
Dummy.
So other in incriminating evidence also included, of course, like the alcohol that he supplied
his victims with, but there were also tranquilizers, various prescription drugs and different types
of like stimulants.
Again, how many doctors does this guy have that are just prescribing him value because
he has a lot of value?
It makes me wonder if he didn't just use like an alternate name or something like an
alias and then went to multiple doctors, which is honestly something that nobody touched
as far as the research that I did.
So if anybody does know the answer to that.
If he was ever charged for any type of forgery or anything like that, that would be interesting.
I mean, it was a hell of a lot easier to get away with that stuff in the 70s and 80s now.
So the passenger seat and the carpet like on the floorboards was completely covered
in blood.
Oh.
However, Gambrill didn't have an open wound on him.
Oh.
So it's older.
So this guy's just been like hoarding this like festering blood.
So I guess he never once got pulled over at all and that was ever suspicious to anybody.
I love his car smell.
Could you imagine?
Yeah.
I was going to say, can you imagine like hitching a ride from this guy and then you're just
like you're in the passenger seat and there's blood all over it?
Well, you know, to the untrained eye, that could look like anything.
You know, I have so bad.
I popped a pimple in front of my little mirror when I was sitting down by my bedroom door
the other day and I was wiping the blood on the carpet in front of me because I was like
whatever.
And Casey was like, it was so fucking gross.
It looks like chocolate now.
It was like a chocolate thing.
I'm like, no, whatever, no.
This is my blood.
That's so gross.
If you ever need it for anything, there it is.
There it is.
There's a DNA sample.
So the upholstery was eventually removed by forensic nail.
The upholstery was removed by forensic.
The全部 was removed by Forens front.
Anyway, it was the upholstery the upholstery was removed by Justv said
Bon Appetit.
Don't wear too much coffee.
Yeah.
That's lame giggly.
I think my brain is breaking.
The upholstery was removed by the forensics team and it was confirmed that it was human
blood.
Do I?
Nobody has to tell me that, right?
So beneath the carpet after the removal the investigators had discovered an envelope
that contained more than 50 photographs of young men in sexually suggestive positions.
What a horrific thing to find.
Yeah, 50 images.
Under the floorboard?
Yeah, it was under, like I guess maybe like under the mat or like he tucked it in there
somewhere.
What a fucking creep.
But like you just carry that shit around?
Like ew.
Yeah.
Ew.
What if he like, oh no, what if he like showed that to them before, oh my god, sorry.
Many of the subjects in the pictures appeared to be either asleep or dead and inside the
trunk investigators found a binder that contained 61 handwritten like coded notations in the
binder.
So this was his scorecard.
Oh my god.
61.
61 coded notations.
That is like nauseating.
And that's why they say like on his thing it's like 16 to 67 or whatever, like on his
little bio.
Yeah.
On his bio.
He's famous.
He's on plenty of fish.
On his bio.
16 to 67 murder victims because they found this binder.
And most of them or some of them were cooperated through just known victims.
So that's why they take every single one so seriously.
I like, I'm glad I can't put myself there.
But like I don't know what I would do if I found a dead body, let alone taking photos
and like driving around.
The human being that you murdered.
He's ceased to exist because of your dick ass.
Yeah.
Like, and then you're just going to take photos of it for leisure, like for fucking
for fun.
Like, oh, that grosses me the fuck out.
So later a search of cross home revealed further incriminating evidence.
Clearly they're like, oh, look at this evidence.
We should probably go take a look at this guy's home life.
Wow.
Good thing.
It's California PD doing something.
Doing something.
Finally.
Jesus.
So again, a search of cross home revealed that he had clothes and certain personal possessions
of numerous victims.
Like the house itself was evidence.
Like he had so much shit.
So fibers taken from a rug at Crafts House was consistent with fibers that was actually
found on Scott Hughes, one of his victims.
Wow.
In addition to the couch that was in Crafts living room that you know a few pictures were
taken on, right?
It was clear that like that was the couch that was in most of the photographs.
Yeah.
I mean, you can't get more like.
You're a dumbass.
That's clearly evidence that will be used against you.
There's no way around that.
So our role of film was actually discovered in the house as well that contained still
frames of Eric Church and Roger Duvall.
And they were actually taken in Crafts car.
So one of these images, a literature mark was actually visible on Duvall's neck.
So it was likely that he was deceased when the picture was taken.
He's like, here's literal evidence of me murdering people.
So the scorecard itself was a binder and it was like I said, it contained coded notations,
61 of them.
And there are references that are written in like very precise and clear handwriting.
So to me, when I like hear that, it's like clearly written out.
It means that like he wasn't writing these down in a panicked manner.
He wasn't writing them down in like a like a disheveled or like a manic way.
No, he was very much enjoying.
Exactly.
Or remembering what was happening.
Super in control.
So again, they were found in the trunk of his car and they're believed to refer to each
one of his victims.
Many entries appear innocuous at first, but each one is believed to be referring to specific
murder victims or double murders.
Double entries clearly reference victims names.
For example, the entry reading EDM refers to the initials of the victim Edward Daniel
Moore, so EDM.
Or Vince M, which refers to Vincent Mista.
In other instances though, entries indicate torture or mutilation inflicted upon the
victims or in the ways that they were last left by him, I guess.
So the entry that it, there's an entry that says Marine Head BP.
And that is believed to be referred to as Mark Marsh, who was a Marine.
He was found decapitated, which is in the reference to the head.
It's a Marine head and then BP since he had been hitchhiking in Buena Park when he went
missing.
Wow.
So it's very like, like there's no way around it.
Like he's referring specifically to these crimes.
It's very personal to him.
Yeah.
And it doesn't seem strange because these people are not people that he knows.
Usually when you see personal killings like that or personal, you know, relations, like
when you're relating it personally to the murder, it's somebody that you know and you
are known for a long time where you care for.
I just feel like it's such an odd trophy.
And then for you to be so specific, it's not coincidental that that means something.
Yeah.
And the fact that he-
Yeah, BP is clearly a Marine, one of the only, I mean, the only victim that I've heard of
to be decapitated.
And then the Buena Park thing, like clearly that is in reference to Mark Marsh.
Yeah, of course.
And the fact that like, I feel like it makes it worse because it shows that he like took
the time to get to know these things about these people.
Right.
Like you wouldn't know this guy was a Marine unless he was literally in his uniform.
Like you would have had to have a conversation with that guy about it or the other things
like date-
Yeah, date.
Like he was exactly like he was going to find his dog or going on a date or he came
on a date with his girlfriend.
Like you would not know that unless they told you.
So that means that you're a fucking asshole that-
I mean, he's already an asshole, but he took the time to get to know these little details
about these people and then used it as a reference point.
Like fuck you.
Right.
So the only other entries really besides the ones that are like more specific, either
by name or by what had happened to them is their dump locations.
So Golden Sales, for example, would refer to Craig Jannitas that was found at the motel.
So the list also contains entries indicating a minimum of four double murders.
So we know about the Grand Rapids 2, the GR2, right?
Yeah.
That is Dennis Ault and Christopher Schoenborn.
The cousins.
Yeah, the cousins.
So they were last seen in Grand Rapids, of course we know that.
The 2-in-1 Beach refers to victims Joffrey Nelson and Roger DeVall.
However, 2-in-1 Hitch and 2-in-1 MV to PL are entries that are noted in the book.
However, there's never been any disappearances linked to those.
And he's an asshole that didn't tell them about it?
No, of course not.
Like why would he?
Well, sometimes, you know, they like to take credit.
They're like, oh, well, there's four more bodies in this part of town or whatever.
They'll just say it because they're narcissistic.
So those are the only four that are, again, that are a minimum at least.
Those are the ones that say 2-in-1 or whatever it is, or reference to victims.
So they can definitively say these are the people.
But again, those other two entries, they've never had any specific double murder or disappearance
that's ever been linked to those.
Which I thought was interesting.
So on Kras scorecard, there's actually two murders that he was convicted of eventually,
which was Church and Gamble.
However, they weren't on his scorecard.
They weren't noted on there.
They weren't noted on there at all.
So there's a possibility that investigators just didn't figure out all of the codes related
to specific victims.
Maybe something that he knew or experienced that the investigators just didn't put two
and two together.
But in Gamble's case, it's probably because he didn't get to that point because he was
caught in the car with him.
So considering what we know, that Gamble probably isn't in his scorecard and specific
victims that they've just tallied and were able to link that they said that there's
a possibility of him having 65 to 67 victims.
Jesus Christ.
That's literally like, I can't even...
That's my eighth grade graduating class.
I was gonna say, that's like a classroom full of people in a college.
That's a shitload of people.
Right.
So on May 16th, 1983, two days after he was pulled over for a suspected DUI, Kraft was
formally charged with the murder of Terry Lee Gamble.
And by September 8th, 1983, investigators had interviewed over 700 witnesses and gathered
more than 250 pieces of physical evidence which pointed to Kraft as committing these
murders.
Holy crap.
And they're like, oh, this is the guy that we've just been kind of like beating around
the bush, like not really looking for.
Like, oh my God.
So they officially only really linked him to 15 other homicides besides Gamble.
So it's, I mean, it's a fraction of what he's done.
Yeah, of course.
And that's a really big bummer for like the other victims too.
You want to see him convicted of every single one that he committed.
So this is all between December 1972 and February 1983, 15, that they can definitively say this
was the guy.
So 11 years time that he was murdering.
That's ridiculous.
Probably longer.
Yeah, and of course there's more people in between that.
Yeah.
There's only ones that they have like without a doubt.
So he was formally charged with 15 murders in addition to two counts of sodomy and one
of emasculation because again, this is the only one which you know was a significant
MO for him.
Of course.
So the victims that he was charged with at this time were Edward Moore, Kevin Bailey,
Ronnie Wieb, Keith Crotwell, Mark Hall, Scott Hughes, Roland Young, Richard Keith, Keith
Klingbele, Michael Interbitten, Donald Crystal, Robert Loggins, Eric Church, Roger Duvall,
Jeffrey Nelson, and Terry Lee Gambrill.
That took you 15 to 20 seconds to say all of that and that's like a quarter of the amount
of people that he killed.
Yeah.
That should really, really say something.
It does really say something.
It does.
Yeah.
Yeah, it also gives their ages and then the dates that they believe the crimes occurred
as well.
And like, yeah, not even that far apart from each other.
Yeah, there's literally an eight day difference between Roland Young and Richard Keith.
That is...
I mean, that's how back to back this is.
That's outrageous to me.
So Kraus trial began September 26, 1988 and he was tried in Orange County before Judge
Donald A. McCartan.
So at the trial, almost 160 witnesses were called to testify on behalf of the prosecution
and over 1,000 exhibits were introduced as evidence.
Wow.
That's a lot of fucking evidence.
It's a long trial.
Yeah.
These exhibits included physical evidence such as blood stains, hair and fiber evidence
that was found at Kraus house and in his car.
Fingerprints were found on the glass shards from the Hall murder as well as negatives
and photographs of victims that were like hidden all over his vehicle.
Imagine being on that jury.
Yeah.
It wasn't just in the floorboard.
I mean like all over his car was scattered the stuff and his house.
Again, the photographs depicted either the men were dead, drugged or maybe asleep.
The belt that was used to strangle Gambrill and the prescription drugs, the buck knife
and the other stuff that was found inside of his vehicle at the time that Gambrill was
found.
Other evidence included his work schedules like his travel records, gasoline, receipts,
things like that that place him at certain times, certain areas.
So they basically could just find him through a paper trail.
Pretty much.
Oh, hey, like you're a dummy.
Yeah, well it's really good that they had all this extra evidence.
It might have seemed like, you know, overkill of like for lack of a bit of information,
but that's really shedding light on just how terrible this guy is and they're like,
we're not going to leave any room for doubt in the jury.
Yeah, for sure.
And so basically all of this paper trail or this paperwork showed is that he was either
in places where somebody had been abducted or were at the sites of like the dump locations.
But the defense was like, well, sorry, dude.
Right.
Best we can do is try to let them not kill you.
Yeah.
The icing on the cake though was definitely the fact that he had personal possessions
of various victims in his house and in his car.
It's funny that you mentioned the defense team because at this point the defense team
is like, hey, this guy Randy Kraft has like been in the military.
He's served for your country.
He is a, you know, a great student.
Like he was really studious growing up.
He was a really hard worker.
You know, all these really great things about him is like he's a really articulate stand-up
dude.
Like there's no way that this guy, a pillar of the community could be this way.
Right?
They didn't dispute that like these men had been murdered, but they did dispute that Kraft
was the one that didn't do it.
And the defense attorney says, quote, there are victims of someone, but it is not Randy
Kraft.
Okay.
Yeah.
A plus for effort.
The defense had pointed out that several of the 16 victims that he was being tried for
had initially been believed by investigators to have been killed by one of two other serial
killers, which are Patrick Kearney and William Bonham.
William Bonham.
I was just gonna say, it's probably William Bonham that they were talking about.
Yeah.
They were both known of court, well, we know, but audience might not that they are both
technically what you would consider like a highway or a freeway killers.
Yeah.
They all three at one point were dubbed as a freeway killer.
Yeah.
William Bonham is like the actual fruit.
Like he's like the main guy.
Yeah.
Sounds stupid, but the other guys were like Randy Kraft was, he was like, no, I don't
like that.
Yeah.
And the killer Kearney is not.
I think he was, maybe he was also a freeway killer.
Yeah.
I think either way.
Yeah.
But there was a matter.
They're all pieces of shit.
Yeah.
They're all garbage.
So the defense attorneys, of course, like I said, they argued that there was no concrete
evidence that Kraft had killed any of these victims, that they were probably victims of
these other serial killers.
But there was two out of three ain't bad.
Literally like there was concrete evidence.
Right.
Homeboy had the ligature mark around his neck with the same width as the belt in the back.
They just happened to plant all of this stuff and then specifically create an M.O. that
was specific to Randy Kraft just to like frame him.
And they did this for 11 years and they strategically planted evidence for 11 years.
Who does Randy Kraft think he is?
Literally.
He's so important and he needs to be framed for murder.
He's a narcissistic fuck.
Murder.
That's what they do.
They think they can get away with anything because they're fucking narcissists.
The trial lasted for a total of 13 months and it would be the most expensive trial in
Orange County history.
Yeah.
Again, imagine being on that jury for 13 months and having to, oh my God, that would really
fuck you up.
So much evidence.
So on April 29th, 1989, closing arguments were made and it lasted a total of three days
for closing arguments.
Oh my God.
It's like, I just imagine it being like, and the jury, this is why.
Time's up.
All right, see you tomorrow.
Yeah.
They're getting into the scene.
Yeah.
Break for lunch or break for night.
Break for, yeah.
So the prosecution again listed all the physical and circumstantial evidence pointing to Kraft's
guilt.
The defense, of course, was arguing that everything was circumstantial and the prosecutors claimed
that Kraft killed all of the victims was unfounded, which is dumb.
So following the closing arguments, the jury deliberated for a total of 11 days.
Oh my God.
Why would they deliberate at all?
This fuck is guilty.
It's probably because there's 16 counts.
You know what I mean?
That's true.
So at least 16 counts of murder and then the two, sodomy, and then the one, emasculation.
So they have to debate on every single.
That's true.
It might not have been a hung jury, but still, like, that's a long time to deliberate.
You're right, though.
It's so much information.
It's so much information that they have to like sift through and then come to an agreement
on every count.
I hope no one in that jury was like, I don't know.
I think it's that Kearney guy.
Might have been Bonin.
So on May 12, 1989, Kraft was found guilty of 16 counts of murder, one count of sodomy,
and one count of emasculation.
So he got almost 100%.
So on June 5, 1989, the same jury reconvened to hear further testimony from the prosecution
and the defense before sentencing.
So this is after he's already been convicted, but this is for the sentencing.
This phase of Kraft's trial would last from pretty much from June to August.
Wow.
So it's a long, again, a long process.
This point, the prosecution introduced evidence of several additional homicides committed
in Oregon and Michigan.
So again, it wasn't used against him.
He couldn't be tried for those, but it's additional evidence towards saying like, well,
these are all of the other things that he's done over here in these states.
He's still highly dangerous.
Don't let this guy get a non-guilty verdict.
Right.
So like, again, they can't try him for it, but they can use it as evidence towards why
to support what they want as far as his sentencing.
So the defense had dismissed these additional allegations and referred to the prosecution's
claim as highly speculative.
What?
Yeah.
Oh, it's just a spec- what?
Highly speculative.
So there's some, what, like, weight to this.
It's highly speculative.
Or does it mean that it's highly suspected?
Or do you think it's highly as in like, it's ridiculous?
It's ridiculous is what they're trying to say, which I think it's highly speculative
that you guys are freaking trying to say that he's not guilty.
I think it's-
I think it's their job.
No, that sucks.
That sucks.
Soups cash.
So the defense also introduced testimony relating to a PET scan conducted on craft in which
they said it revealed abnormalities in the front lobes of his brain.
Oh, like the frontal lobe.
The frontal lobe is very important.
Yeah, they're saying that the frontal lobe.
But of course, they had suggested that this may have reduced his ability to control his
emotions and his impulses and stuff.
Yeah, whatever.
Ugh, just a good old defense team.
Yeah, there's a lot of people-
Classic defense.
Seriously, there's a lot of people that their frontal lobes not fully developed every single
person under the age of 25, and they don't commit crimes.
They don't murder people.
They don't murder 67 people.
Seriously.
So the prosecution had retorted by stating to the jury, quote, there's nothing wrong
with Mr. Kraff's mind other than the fact that he likes to kill for sexual satisfaction.
Boom, roasted.
And, quote.
And they also added to the fact that his family and friends had found it very difficult to
believe he had committed any of the murders, and it simply showed what the prosecution
considered that he was a really good salesman.
Wow.
Yeah.
So on August 11th, 1989, the jury had rendered a verdict of death for his sentencing.
So Judge Donald A. McCartan, like we said, Judge McCartan, that I'll refer to him from
that point on, or this point on, which he's only going to be mentioned like two more times.
But Judge McCartan had passed a death penalty sentence upon Randy Kraff's two months later,
November 29th, 1889.
I'm sorry, 1889.
Whoa.
He's a vampire.
November 29th, 1989.
That was two months after the verdict of death by the jury.
Judge McCartan said about the trial and the verdict, quote, to have something like this
take place in our society, I think I've sent maybe eight or nine individuals to their death
in my courtroom before.
I can take all those aggravating circumstances in those other cases, and they still don't
match Mr. Kraff's record.
I just can't comment right now.
If anyone deserves the death penalty, he's got it coming.
I wish we could kill him twice.
Right?
Or 67 times.
Literally.
So the death sentence was later upheld by the California Supreme Court on August 9th,
2000.
So it's almost 11 years to the day that the jury came back with their verdict of death.
Wow.
So in the course of 2021, Kraff still remains on death row at San Quentin State Prison.
He's still alive.
Sorry, I just screamed.
This motherfucker is still alive.
He still denies responsibility for any of the homicides in which he was either convicted
or suspected of committing.
Oh my God.
I mean, glad he's rotting.
Don't get me wrong.
Oh yeah.
However, tell me he doesn't have a cushy life.
Oh, I don't fucking know.
I didn't care to look at whether or not he has a cushy life.
Well, I don't want him to.
I don't think he does.
He's probably in segregation though, or isolated because he's so notorious.
I cannot believe he's still alive.
How old is he?
He's got to be like 70.
He is 76 years old.
Jesus Christ.
I mean, they should just let him in the general population so that he can get raped every day.
67 times.
67.
That's so fucking gross.
So interestingly enough, that is where Randy Kraft's life will end.
But there's all of these extra speculations.
So both circumstantial and DNA evidence relating to some of Kraft's murders have caused a lot
of people to strongly suspect that the murders that are attributed to Kraft aren't just
committed by just him.
Yes.
I think earlier that there was, or on the first part, I think we talked about there was
two sets of footprints in the sand.
Right.
Dragging marks.
So the prosecution believed that these inconsistencies could only be explained by the presence of
an accomplice.
And it is contended that Kraft, given his stature, would have a really hard time looking
around a 200-pound deceased person.
Because he's a scrawny little bitch or what?
Yeah, he's a little scrawny bitch.
Well, he looks like a little scrawny bitch.
I'm trying to think about who he reminds me of.
He reminds me of John Locke from Lost if that actor was shorter and thinner.
So he's got a bald head.
I mean, I don't know what he looked like in the 70s and 80s.
He's fuck ugly.
And I posted pictures of him on our Instagram.
If you listen to part one, you've already seen that.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
So for him to be lugging around corpses, or victims, and especially that, but dumping
them from moving vehicles.
How strong would you have to be to be driving and then force someone out of a moving vehicle
when you're going 90 or 80 down on the highway?
It seems really implausible for just one person to do.
True.
It does.
There are signs and debris that were found on some of the crime scenes, like where bodies
had been discarded or along freeways.
Again, they had signs of traveling more than 50 miles an hour.
So that's really hard for one person to do.
So like you mentioned, the footprints in the sand where John Laris was found at Sunset
Beach, it indicated that it looked like two people were dragging the body along the sand.
And in the case of Eric Church, samples of DNA that were found on his body were inconsistent
with Kraft's blood type.
Which is huge.
Interesting.
Very huge.
Not to say that Eric Church wasn't maybe with someone that night or whatever before he
was murdered.
So what's even more interesting is that the photographs that were found in Kraft's car
and around his house had to have been processed somewhere.
So you think like this is the 70s, this is the 80s, you took your film to go get processed.
Yeah, and people that processed it saw that and were like, okay.
Oh, whatever, right?
So this also alludes to the fact that someone that he was in contact with knew about Dark
Rooms and knew how to process film at home.
And Kraft didn't have any of that knowledge.
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah, and this person obviously knew what he was doing if they were processing this
footage.
Right.
So I think that no, just like kid that works at a Dark Room or like at a film development
store or job would not say something to police, right?
Yeah, of course.
So anyways, during Cross-Trial, members of the prosecution had admitted privately that
they didn't charge him with certain murders because they indicated that it would be only
possible through an accomplice.
Wow.
So there's certain murders that they pretty much knew he had committed, but because of
the evidence that a second person may be a part of it, that they wouldn't be able to
prosecute for those.
Wow.
So, yeah.
So although the DNA evidence on Church's body wasn't consistent with Kraft, they just
left that evidence out and they chose to focus on the photographs where Church was sitting
on the couch or in the car, I think it was.
And then some of his personal belongings were also found at Kraft's house.
So they used that evidence to convict him for a Church's murder.
And it just left out the DNA evidence, which is interesting.
Maybe you'll remember this name, Jeff Graves.
So that was Kraft's former lover, Jeff Graves.
And the prosecution also believes that Kraft was helped by Graves at some point, given
the fact that they had been together for like five years.
So during the time that Kraft and Graves were together for that five years, from 1971 to
1996, there is speculation that there was at least 16 other murders that occurred during
that time.
Okay.
Like it was separate from the ones he was convicted of.
Right.
So he was actually being questioned.
I think if you remember when Crotwell had been kidnapped and he was there with his friend
and then his friend got pushed out of the car, Graves was questioned during that.
And he had said, oh yeah, Randy was with me all night or whatever and covered for him.
And he verified parts of Kraft's statement.
Do you remember when he called and he was like, hey, my car got stuck, whatever.
So he corroborated that.
And that was in 1975.
So later on after Kraft's arrest, Graves was interrogated again and he said, quote, I'm
really not going to pay for it.
So meaning like he probably knew something, but he'll never go down for it.
Oh.
Yeah.
So the impression of this guy was like a victim of it in itself, but doesn't really seem like
it.
Well, and remember when he was being questioned or asked, he said that Kraft had never shown
signs of aggression or anything like that towards him.
So I don't know if he was just like inherently scared of him and he just didn't, he knew
maybe what he was capable of.
Or he knew something and chose to just accept it.
I don't know.
He's kind of a piece of shit.
It's kind of like a strange little thing to say.
Like I'm really not going to pay for it.
Like, okay.
So Graves did die of AIDS on July 27th, 1987.
And at the time of his death, police had been preparing to question him further.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
So he could have been convicted of something.
In January 2000, journalist Dennis McDougal had published an article in which he interviewed
a small time criminal named Bob Jackson.
And Bob Jackson reportedly confessed to murdering two hitchhikers with Kraft.
Okay.
Right?
So one was in Wyoming in 1975 and the other was in Colorado the following year.
So authorities in both Colorado and Wyoming were unable to like determine whether or not
that was the truth.
So, I.E. they probably never found any victims.
There wasn't enough evidence to positively identify one victim or another.
Okay.
So Jackson also claimed to McDougal that the Kraft scorecard included only his quote
unquote more memorable murders.
And so in his opinion, he thought that Kraft murdered way more than 67.
But he just wrote down the certain ones.
Certain ones that he wanted to keep.
As late as.
Which honestly, I don't even think is ever fetched.
It's not.
It's definitely not.
Like this guy just went around willy-nilly.
And got away with it for 11 fucking years.
Yeah.
So McDougal did report these allegations that Jackson made to police and provided tape recordings
of all the interviews.
Okay.
Detectives interrogated Jackson and eventually persuaded him to either.
This is so.
To me, this got me.
They persuaded him to enter a mental institution.
Like they thought he was crazy.
Huh?
Yeah.
I don't know.
It seems like, again, they weren't able to cooperate his stories about Wyoming and Colorado.
And it was only two, but he said that he knew Kraft well enough that he was like, this person
clearly murdered more than these people.
Yeah.
And instead of taking him seriously, they put him in a mental institution.
That's ridiculous.
No murder charges were ever filed against him due to absence of direct incriminating evidence.
Wow.
Even though he confessed.
Yeah.
Not saying every confession is correct.
Of course.
And I would hope that they did their due diligence and they actually had him evaluated and then
offer for him to go into a mental institution.
Yeah, they probably do.
But it sounds like a, I mean, to me, I don't know.
And I don't want to sound like I'm paranoid, but it kind of sounds like a little bit of
a cover up.
They're like, we're not going to open up that can of worms, you know?
So Kraft actually sued McDougal and the publisher of Angel of Darkness in 1993 for a previous
book that McDougal had written about him.
He sought $62 million in damages.
What are you going to use that money for in prison?
The suit contended that the book smeared his quote, good name.
Oh, not even kidding.
The book did that.
Not the fact that you murdered almost a fucking hundred people.
Yeah.
And it destroyed his prospects for a future employment by ruining his chances of overturning
his conviction on appeal.
The lawsuit was later dismissed by California Supreme Court in June 94.
What future employment, you fucking piece of dog shit.
You were never getting out of fucking prison.
He said he was unjustly portrayed as a sick and twisted man.
I'm just, you know what else is fucking unjust?
The fact that you took the lives of 67 at least young boys and men.
Fuck you.
Oh my god.
I want someone to castrate him.
He's still alive.
I want someone to castrate him.
Still alive.
Dude, that infuriates me.
So 22 of Kraus' estimated 67 victims have remained unrecovered or unidentified, which
is unfortunate.
Yes, very unfortunate.
This is due in part to the killings having been occurred in several different states
with bodies being discarded in varying locations, especially being outside and stuff.
If you, just a sidebar here, if you are listening and you happen to be connected to anybody
that went missing during these time periods in any of these states, you can definitely
submit.
If you're not doing DNA, they couldn't really test it back then, but they definitely take
DNA and if there's any unidentified victims, you can actually do like a familial match.
If it's somebody in your family that had gone missing, you never got justice or you never
knew, you're completely welcome to call them and submit your DNA if you're comfortable
doing that to try to get some of these victims identified.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because that's very unfortunate.
I would hate for anybody to not get answers for something that they couldn't control.
So an entry in Kraft's scorecard read Navy White and that is believed by investigators
to be a 17-year-old man by the name of James Sean Cox.
And he was an apprentice at a medic station at Marther Air Force Base, so of course that
fits the MO.
He likes to take Marines.
And he was last seen on September 29th, 1974 and he was hitchhiking near Interstate 5 and
his body was found several weeks later in Rancho Santa Fe.
And at the time of his disappearance, Cox dressed in a white Navy uniform.
In addition to the color of his uniform, Cox was also blonde.
So Navy White, you know, when you think about what he was wearing, if that makes sense.
So another entry on the scorecard simply reads Iowa and it's believed to refer to an 18-year-old
Marine named Oral Alfred Stewart Jr. and he had been born in Iowa.
His body was found discarded close to a Long Beach apartment complex on November 10th in
1974.
The man died as a result of blunt force trauma and his body remained unidentified until March
2012.
Wow.
So 74 to 2012.
Investigators note the MO as being consistent with Kraft's and especially the disposal
style, which they don't really specify.
So the last scorecard entry that may be cooperated with a victim that went missing is Harikari.
This entry might refer to a stabbing of 30-year-old David Michael Stant.
He was found sexually assaulted and stabbed to death close to a vacant house on Long Beach
in January of 1975.
So the multiple stab wounds were all inflicted in the stomach, which was interesting.
And he was actually found in a kneeling position with his arms extended in front of him.
Weird.
In a position that was reminiscent of what the Japanese called Harikiri or Stepaku, which
is like a Japanese suicide ritual.
So that's one of the last ones that they suspect was his.
And so of course, we don't have to talk too much about it because I know we'll talk about
it eventually.
We'll be like Kearney and Bonin, but Kearney's other nickname and the reason that he had
a completely different MO, but he was technically the trash bag murderer.
So because he dismembered and he put people in trash bags.
And then Bonin, of course, was part of the freeway murders.
He wasn't the freeway killer, but he committed the freeway murders.
So yeah.
But he never used drugs or alcohol like Craft did.
Okay.
So.
Dang, that was a hell of a case.
Yeah, it was.
Kind of pissed that he's still alive.
I know.
It literally, it grinds my gears.
It does.
That's wild.
Well, thanks for sharing that.
That was a lot.
And thanks to everybody for sticking around for our first two-parter.
Yeah.
Hope it wasn't too, too long of, you know, there's a lot of information.
And so we'd instead of giving you a three hour long episode, we wanted to break it down
into two parts and never really talked about his mental status.
But yeah, really he's got the only thing that they talked about was maybe like maybe
a science of like if it's CTE or whatever for from his frontal lobe being damaged.
Yeah, I think he has narcissistic personality disorder.
Probably.
He's just a fucking asshole.
Yeah.
I mean, honestly, personality disorders are so prevalent among killers.
Again, not to say that every killer has that and not to say that everybody that has a
personality disorder will be a killer or is a killer.
However, that is the spectrum of personality disorders is the most prevalent among killers
and stuff that commit crimes.
It definitely seemed that there was a definite like switch that happened somewhere.
And like we didn't really get to see any of that or know about any of that.
It was, you know, he was militant.
He was conservative.
He was, you know, it was very black and white.
And then he just kind of like, like I said, like a flip switched and then it was like,
OK, well, now I'm liberal.
I work in a gay bar.
I am a serial killer.
Yeah.
And it's like, I mean, it's not mentioned if he did, but maybe he suffered a TBI in the
military or maybe he had some traumatic brain injury as a kid.
Right.
And you don't know about it.
And that unfortunately can cause a lot of damage to that frontal lobe and mental crisis
later in life.
Especially if you grow into it.
Like if you had brain damage when you were like in high school or even in college and
then you grow, but this part isn't developed.
Like I say this part like you guys can see that I'm pointing to the front of my head,
my forehead, but this part doesn't mature with you because of the damage.
I mean, yeah, that can definitely do something to someone.
I am.
I don't know about you, but I am very excited to get done with this shit and don't have
to think about this guy anymore because yeah, this case got me.
Yeah.
It's a hard one.
It is.
It is hard.
And I feel for the victims.
I feel for the victims' families.
Yeah.
So many people affected by one person.
Absolutely.
Well, anything else you got?
No, I think that's it.
Right.
Well, in the meantime, listening to me for two episodes.
You did great.
You did.
In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram at Diagnosing a Killer.
We also do have Twitter at Killer Diagnosis.
We are also on Spotify, Buzzsprout, Apple Podcasts.
We have our Patreon.
We have our Patreon.com slash Diagnosing a Killer.
And what else?
I think that's it.
That's it.
I think, oh, email us at Diagnosing a Killer at gmail.com.
Please email us.
And I am super happy to announce I just got a call actually during us recording from my
best friend in the world, Zach, and he said that him and his wife, Erin's, show got approved.
And they are wanting to hire me as a freelance writer for their Snapchat show about true
crime.
So I'm really excited about that.
As soon as I have more details, of course, I will put all of that on here so that you
guys can listen to that.
And then, yeah, it's gonna be fun.
I'm excited.
I'm excited for you.
That's great.
Well, in the meantime, we're all coming with another mental breakdown.
Thanks for listening to us.
Yeah, thanks for listening to us on the mental breakdown.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.