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Hello, I'm Koelle and I'm Kevin welcome to this week's a mental breakdown

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mental it gets a good breakdown keeping that in there

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just grabbed my toes they were like it was like toe holding or hand-foot

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holding feet hold hand-holding what I'm trying to it's like when you never

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mind I know what you're trying to say but you said eight things yeah all right

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what are you gonna say my armpits smell really bad do they I can't wait to take

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a shower oh yeah and I've worked tonight to we this is my only day off work we

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really didn't work yesterday you are awful you're out of town but I'm gonna

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be busy don't be busy Andrew is taking an extended hiatus off work and so they've

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moved me to bar and so nice play was like I need help find the bar and I was

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like okay that's cool yeah that's cool I don't see you need a bit of a break

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lovey-squee like the bar

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all righty guys this week's mental breakdown topic is going to be drum roll

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obsessive compulsive disorder I know I think I have this lookie no okay so

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oh my god I'm pretty sure I have that that's terrible that's so good now I

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think I've pinpointed the disease but I heard the diagnosis that I could have

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really I'm also not a psychiatrist but I'll actually do that one right next

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one I'm gonna do that one so do what your own diagnosis the one that I think I

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could be dying like so much fun yeah I'll let you talk now no you're fine so

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kind of the reason that I want to talk about OCD is because I feel like it's

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thrown out so much no people like oh it's just my OCD but it's not but it's

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not no I see the actually you know what I mean like and it's it's it's kind of

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interesting that we throw it around so much like it's so yeah yeah like oh my

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gosh this lights on I must turn it off it's it's triggering my OCD you know

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yeah which okay so in order for you to or one to be diagnosed with obsessive

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compulsive disorder at this point we'll just call it OCD you have to have the

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presence of one or both of these behaviors so it's a it's a this is

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straight from the DSM 5 it is one a recurrent and persistent thought urge

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or images that are like experienced at some point at some point during the

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disturbances you're experiencing so disturbance of intrusive thoughts you

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know disturbance of unwanted thoughts and it causes stress and anxiety so you

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have to have that right recurrent persistent thoughts and possible addition

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to so number two the individual attempts to ignore or suppress the thoughts

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urges or images or neutralize them in some way with a thought or an action and

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it's done by performing a compulsion yes so it's you're already having intrusive

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thoughts and you want these thoughts to go away so it's you're creating another

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thought or an action to distract your brain from that or in some type of a way

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to prevent that thought so you count to ten three times right that could be

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considered a compulsion right a compulsion so what I wondered though is

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because it said it's the presence of one or both and so does that mean that you

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could have one without the other but you can't have the other without the first

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one no you know what I mean I think you could have one without the other on

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either or but if you have recurrent and persistent thoughts or just images and

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it's intrusive I think you could have that without the compulsion that's what

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I'm saying but I don't think you can have the compulsion without the thought

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because the compulsion itself comes from the fact that you're trying to prevent

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the thought that you're having do you know what I mean I get what you mean it's

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like having non-gmo it were organic you can have something non-gmo but it's not

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organic but if it's organic it's already non-gmo that's a good that makes sure so

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I just wondered about that because it really didn't describe them that in the

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DSM 5 I'm sure if I did a little bit more research and then I probably find

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that so what are compulsions you ask but wish you didn't but I didn't but I'd

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like to know so compulsions are defined as repetitive behaviors so that's like

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hand-washing which is like what would be manifesting as a physical one or it

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could be a mental act like counting or repeating words silently over and over

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again and this person feels like they are driven to perform these in a response

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to an obsessive thought or according with the rules that are applied so like your

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compulsion might be not the same as my compulsion just because of the thoughts

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that I'm having are different yes and I again I said this earlier somewhat

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jokingly I think that I exhibit some signs and symptoms of OCD I don't think

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that I have enough to be diagnosed with it but the compulsions that you're

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talking about I have a persistent and intrusive thought when I lay down

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somebody's gonna break in somebody's gonna break in I get up three or four

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times just to check the locks yes that is consistent with those that is right and

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so yes you've hit the nail on the head for yeah because that's part of what a

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compulsion is so the other half of the compulsions are that the behaviors or

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mental acts are aimed at preventing or reducing the stress that you're already

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experiencing or preventing some dreaded event or situation so it comes with like

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the sense of fear right you're fearful of something however these behaviors or

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mental acts either are not connected in a realistic way with what their disease

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is designed to neutralize or prevent or are clearly excessive so that's part of

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it it's like there's a disconnect so one might one person might be like well I

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don't want anybody to come into the house so I'm gonna lock the door and that

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one time you check is sufficient but when you are like you said laying in bed

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and having repetitive thoughts repetitive thought like it's not gonna go away

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until I touch that doorknob to make sure touch that lock right so that is I would

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consider a hint of OCD even a hint but yeah even if I fucking turn the top

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bolt lock in the door handle I still jiggle the door to make sure that I do

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that too but I wouldn't know I like if that's necessarily like I feel like it's

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a reasonable compulsion and I think that that's that's what this is saying here

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is that when it's irrational yeah like you having to check a light switch a

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billion times because you're afraid it's somehow going to cause a butterfly

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effect that will kill your family now those are two thoughts yeah that don't

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seem like they're connected in some way and so that's what this is saying it's

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like the behaviors are not connected in a realistic way yeah and so that's that's

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what can be considered a severe OCD and I've heard cases where people you know if

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I don't say the pledge of allegiance three times in a row I'm going to fall

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off of a cliff today or something right like things like that you're right like

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those things seemingly don't have anything to do with each other but the

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brain puts them together as if okay if I don't do this then this will happen right

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or vice versa if I do this then this won't happen exactly yeah so just some

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warning signs you may have OCD if the obsession or compulsions you're

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experiencing are time-consuming i.e. they're taking more than an hour out of

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your day or it caused clinical significant distress or impairment and

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social occupational or other areas of function that's also something that you

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like experience when you're watching TV and you have let's see somebody on Dr.

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Phil who has OCD compulsions like they have a compulsion to you know turn their

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car on and off five times before they start driving otherwise they're going to

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be in an accident and it takes forever and a lot of these people it sucks because

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they can't they can't get to work on time it's affecting their daily life

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exactly can't pick up their child from school on time or whatever it is so

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another one of these are a disturbance your experience is not better explained

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by symptoms of another mental disorder okay so which is kind of interesting when

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I was reading this I was like okay that that totally makes sense so these

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examples are excessive worry as in general anxiety disorder preoccupation

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with appearance like a body dysmorphic disorder difficulty discarding or

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parting with certain possessions in hoarding disorder hair pulling as in

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tricked atillomania like pulling hair disorder repetitive patterns of

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behavior like autism spectrum disorder and the list goes on unless it's like

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explained with a different type of disorder that may be present and then thirdly

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the disturbance you're experiencing is not due to a direct physiological effect

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of substance abuse basically drug abuse medication or a general medical

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condition and that's everything which really is and so that's I maybe that's

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why it's so easy for people to say oh it's my OCD and and be tossed around a

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little bit more maybe yeah and what I thought it was really interesting is like

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when I tried to look up killers with OCD there were a lot of other more

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prevalent mental disorders on some of these cases like Ted Bundy had narcissistic

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personality disorder and things like that but OCD may be a co-morbidity with

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right just not as prevalent exactly and and like I said with that that list that

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goes on I mean it literally touches on everything in the DSM 5 it is as long as

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it is not any of these other things yeah it might be possible it's possible and so

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again I like you said co-morbidity is huge with this and it manifests in a lot

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of other diagnosis yeah I just think it's silly when someone says like you know I

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walked into the house and it was dirty and I cleaned it because you know my OCD

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like no that's like what everyone does when something's dirty they clean it

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yeah if you are obsessed with obsessively cleaning like you can't have a

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speck of dust on something that's different right just cleaning because

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there's clutter is not OCD and I think it's funny because not funny but I think

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it's ironic because a lot of people think that OCD is that but it's completely

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different right yeah it's a lot more detailed than you think I can't can I

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consider myself to be a bit of a germaphobe like I don't share drinks or

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smokes with people or anything like that I if I if I feel like I have something

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nasty on my hands I'll wash it but it's but it's not hindering my everyday life

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and I don't think I'm doing it because I'm going to die or someone's going to

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die and I think that it coupled with that obsessive thought is what makes

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that's you know it's obsessive compulsive disorder so it's

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coupled with the thoughts of obsession over something that seems like it would

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be trivial or rational and then then comes the compulsion and I think that

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that's the thing that a lot of people are missing is that they feel like they

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have a compulsion to or maybe even a strong habit of making sure all your

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whites are put together when you put them in the washer or whatever that might

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be a really good habit or a strong habit that you're exhibiting but it's not a

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compulsion a compulsion is the need to do it because of the obsessive yes so

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yeah that was a good way of putting it so what I found to be really interesting

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is that the case of OCD can be exacerbated by the type of insight that

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the person has about their own diagnosis so if you have a good or a fair

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insight about what OCD is the individual can recognize that obsessive

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compulsive beliefs are definitely or probably not true or that they may or

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may not be true so if you recognize that you have this and you're you have a

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pretty good insight that yeah the thoughts may or may not be true or or

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not true yes and that way you know it kind of opens up the gateway into

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recognizing your own diagnosis and and learning to cope with it yeah and I

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think that goes for any of these diagnoses if you if you learn about it

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and you know exactly what's causing it exactly why you're thinking the way

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that you're thinking what you're doing the things that you're doing it's a

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lot easier to like kind of cope with like when we talked about DID as soon as

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not as soon as but you know when you get the proper knowledge of DID and what

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what it is and why it happens it's a lot easier for them to deal with the their

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everyday life right is DID you know which which can also spill into the

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stress that you're experiencing yeah and if your stress levels are lower you're

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probably likely to like have less compulsions so so with that with poor

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insights like you know enough about it but maybe you're not doing your due

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diligence enough and and learning about how your brain works and that the

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individual thinks obsessive compulsive disorder beliefs are probably true yeah

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so they it's one of those like it may or like it it's probably true so I'm

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gonna go ahead and do it anyways yeah I'd rather be safe than sorry exactly and

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if they're not if they're not sharing these thoughts with other people then

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they've not been told otherwise and they have no reason to believe it's not

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true right so with the absence of insight or with delusional beliefs the

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individual is completely convinced that obsessive compulsive disorder beliefs are

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true yes and of course can be detrimental yeah great mind-stick like

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yeah unfortunately obsessive compulsive disorder treatment may not result in a

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cure but it can also bring symptoms under control so they don't really your

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daily life so you can be able to daily function function daily depending on the

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severity of your OCD some people may need long-term on ongoing more intensive

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care it was really interesting again like we kind of touched on it I couldn't

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find any killers that had OCD that didn't have another more severe mental

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disorder or condition but what I did do instead is I we like to always add it

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like pepper in some famous people wringlin so of course one of the more

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famous cases of OCD that we see regularly is howie mandel right he's a

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germaphobe howie mandel what I found it really interesting in researching him

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is that he doesn't talk about his coping like skills or the way that he copes

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with his OCD at all because he's afraid to put out information that people think

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is like accurate yeah for everyone and those he says he said everybody's an

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individual what works for me work that's what works for him so he doesn't want to

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put out any of this information like it's the truth or like it's a cure or like

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it's gonna help everyone I think that's really cool like that he chooses not to

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talk about what he does but he's so comfortable in talking about who he is

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well that's that's a smart move on his be had that's an educational you know

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educational approach to that yeah is to not say something especially knowing

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how big his platform is right how easily people are influenced by celebrities so

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I think that's really smart yeah I do too so Maria Bamford she is my favorite

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female comedian she is hilarious she does like voice stuff like when in her

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stand-ups she's just so funny and so unique I was really surprised this year

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on this list so actually I don't remember the source but in an interview

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she that she did she was talking about how when she was like nine or around that

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age like adolescence that she would lay awake in bed because she was afraid that

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if she fell asleep she would murder her parents and not know what and that she

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was afraid to wake up to them dead and then I heard that yeah but that was an

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obsessive thought so she was like through ages like nine to whenever she would

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just came to lay in bed and just obsess over that thought and she was afraid to

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go sleep so she just didn't sleep at night isn't that interesting yeah that

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your brain can get such a young age to that your brain just what you know I

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mean I feel like children can have irrational fears that's a pretty severe

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fear yeah and that's again where you see the obsession of the thought of killing

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her parents or losing her parents and the connection that she made with the

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compulsion to stay awake yeah and it seems so irrational right like if I lay

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awake I will save my parents this one seriously is so personal to me it's

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sugar from BTS oh my gosh I did not know that I didn't either and I was

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researching and I was like sugar from BTS oh my gosh that he deals with OCD he

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says that he's written quite a few songs but more specifically a song called

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the last is about his journey through seeking help for his OCD and yeah yeah

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about his struggles with OCD as well so the last one that I have for you is

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Leonardo Caprio what? I don't know like he's just one of those people that like at

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any age I'm like yeah he just seems like so candy and I mean I don't know him

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obviously personally but like he just seems like such a genuine person yeah

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and that's why in his acting you know I've not seen a lot of interviews about

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him or anything but so he actually played a part in a movie where he was

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portraying a person with severe OCD and that he really recognized that he did

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struggle with things similar to that although not as extreme but he says even

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to this day he has to catch himself walking in and out of doorways multiple

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times and so he tries not to be as forward presenting with his OCD and so he

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constantly tries to catch his own behavior but I found that was really

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interesting yeah super interesting and again we say this every mental breakdown

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but if this is your first one listening you know just goes to show that there

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are so many people that live with these diagnoses not even diagnoses but these

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struggles and we're you know symptoms maybe they're not diagnosed daily basis

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and it's a difference in availability insurance money that if you get it

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treated or not you know and so don't be quick to judge somebody based on

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something that they literally can't control and most of the time they can't

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get help for right or they don't want to because they're embarrassed or

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stigmatized or whatever so just a friendly reminder right and of course we

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mentioned before that the comorbidity between OCD and other disorders is very

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high and so if you do experience thoughts like that and you feel like

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they're abnormal I mean you know or someone mentions them to you that they

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might be abnormal maybe maybe talk to someone you know I mean you would hate

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for it to manifest into something else yeah and I like to say you know therapy

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of course is not cheap getting diagnosed for something is not cheap however use

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your free resources talk to your parents talk to your friends talk to anybody in

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your family that you think is you know willing and able to at least listen don't

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rely on anybody to diagnose you or anything like that but if you need

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advice and you're not in a position financially where you can get professional

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advice at least on your friends and your family and you ask them just not even

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ask but just vent just talk about whatever is bothering yeah the interesting

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thing about OCD is that there are so many resources online about it when you

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talk about different types of therapy or you know I know there's like meditation

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there's that exposure therapy there's another one even talk therapy is good

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for yeah things for sure well thanks for bringing I didn't know you were gonna

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do that one and I'm glad that you did because I mean I still I always learn

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something even though I'm like oh I know exactly what this is about I still it's

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nice to even just get like a reminder like a refresh on like the exact like

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professional diagnosis like the scientific words and stuff right that's

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what I want to how it's defined exactly and that's I mean one of my goals is to

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be able to you know talk about certain things like that and sound you know

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intellectually developed and and know exactly how to explain it so that

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everyone understands and I don't sound like right I'm leaving something out you

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know yeah absolutely I love that the DSM 5 is out there and accessible to people

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because if that is the true definition and I feel like especially when we're

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talking about personality disorders or schizophrenia spectrum that there's so

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much misinformation that all of the definitions are are just kind of pulled

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from different areas and what you think in your head or what people might think

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or society might think is the true definition of a disorder so to really

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read it in black and white is kind of huge yeah and learning about again

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comorbidity or what those specific compulsions are or mean or the difference

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between that and another type of a disorder I think is really huge because

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when you're speaking to someone or someone wants to come to you and approach

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you about this topic you know I I know a little bit more you know I know that

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like it just again it's full circle back to that fact that everybody says

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that's my OCD yeah so whenever you hear that phrase people according to

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diagnosing a killer mental breakdown nope you do not have OCD and it should be

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taken seriously and I feel like it shouldn't I mean there was a place in a

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time where people said things about you know retardation and stuff like that and

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how and to me that word affects me and I don't you know I don't like when people

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use that word yeah and so you know I'm glad that the progression of words like

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the words and the verbage that we're using is changing yeah and so I would

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hope that we come across a day or a time where people don't go oh it's just my

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OCD yeah or it's my hypochondria or it's my whatever and especially if you have a

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diagnosed with that yeah and that people could take it seriously and you can

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speculate all you want like I do but I also like to mention that I am not

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diagnosed with it I just think that I may be able to be but it's only only with

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the proper proper prognosis and you know and evaluations by a professional I

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definitely do not try to self-medicate or self-treat any of these symptoms

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yeah without making sure that of course what's going on and I do think that it

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again piggybacking off of the thought that we are progressing so much so far

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as a culture just especially I mean just worldwide culture in general

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recognizing mental illness and mental disorders I think that what's so

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important you know when we say things like it's my OCD it's my whatever that

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we recognize that when we use those terms and when we say those things I

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think that's what allows us to be introspective and realize that these

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diagnoses and these disorders are not far-fetched yes that everybody can relate

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to something like OCD everyone can relate to personality disorders

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antisocial you know these aspects of things and I think that instead of us

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using these terms we need to understand that like people really do struggle with

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these disorders but have empathy of course because it is not far-fetched

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people get people have these disorders of course and just we all have brains we're

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all capable of these things and just yeah and it's not something that you'll

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know I mean like we talked about in this good different spectrum that isn't

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presented in females to the late 20s early 30s so when you're 17 18 19 even

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mid 20s you know it sounds bad but it's still possible you know you're not as

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different as you want to think and we're not by any means saying that everyone's

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gonna develop a mental disorder at some point in their life but just be aware of

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the fact that it can happen to anybody and just be yeah and that was your

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sister your brother your father your mother your cousin your boyfriend your

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whatever yeah you would want people to be empathetic towards that so not be so

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quick to judge mm-hmm

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got it she said I think my phrase is for lack of a better term I say I'm not

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too but I say dummy a lot too I say I listen to the Robert DeFaero case

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Robert whoa I listened to the Ronald DeFeo case and I said idiot like 18 times

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I mean it was fitting but I was like idiot do you know a better word than that

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no anyways thank you guys for joining us for the mental breakdown yes season

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it's November it's November thanks give me mental breakdown yeah we'll do it

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we'll have to do a Thanksgiving episode yeah that'll be awesome all right guys

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message us text us email us at diagnosing a killer at gmail.com

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Twitter at killer diagnosis pay us pay us at patreon patreon.com

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slash diagnosing a killer Instagram is at diagnosing a killer as well and we're

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on Buzzsprout Spotify Apple Podcast RSS anywhere you listen to podcasts we are

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there I think and yeah hit us up we'd love to hear from you all and I know

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that I said I was gonna go watch the Astros when Game 1 of the World Series

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we lost but I'm gonna go watch the Astros when game 6 of the World Series

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right now