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Hello, hello, I am Kenna and I'm Koelle welcome back to diagnosing a killer

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That's a tired one today

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It's a tire. Do you feel like it was like low energy? No, I'm just tired. Oh, you're tired

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I thought you said I thought you said we sound tired today

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Oh, no, I'm just gonna brag on myself for a second. I went to Colorado this weekend and it was so much fun

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I got to visit a couple friends and we just had a blast and it's 85 degrees here right now when it was like 35 degrees up there

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So definitely a change and it was very fun and we got to see the mountains and we got to hang out

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You know Halloween weekend was always always fun in Colorado. So that's why I'm tired

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But I shouldn't be complaining about being tired from being having fun, you know

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I'm tired because I'm on my period. Oh, so worst

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Girl stuff just girl things. Just you know girl things

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I don't think there's really any

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Business we need to talk about before we get started. No, I don't think so cut and dry week

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Yeah, there hasn't been really a lot going on. I think everybody was just enjoying their holiday weekend

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Yeah, absolutely. Well, we hope that you guys have been enjoying these mental breakdowns that we've been doing

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Yeah, we're gonna continue to put those out every Sunday at midnight

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And the cases regularly should be coming out hopefully on Thursdays, but last week I got too busy. So it was Friday

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You were out of town though. Yeah, I did the editing on the plane

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That's commitment

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All right, well, I'm just gonna go ahead and jump right in

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Today we are going to be talking about Carla Faye Tucker Carla Faye Tucker. Okay, hmm

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this wasn't not a known one for me. I I started reading and I got interested and

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You might have a differing opinion of me at the end of this and I had a differing opinion at the end of it as well

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Because I was yourself. Yeah, I thought I wouldn't do it thinking one thing and then

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Thinking of those like yeah

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So without further ado Carla Faye Tucker was born on November 18th 1959 in Houston, Texas

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To Larry and Carolyn Tucker. She was the youngest of three girls her older sisters being Carrie and Kathy both with case

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So it's just like us all three of us start with case Kathy and Carla. Yes

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Now by all accounts her parents didn't have the best marriage

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We see this a lot in cases of you know like this children growing up to be killers. They usually didn't have a great home life

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Yeah, it's just interesting that I mean that that clearly will forever be a theme

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Yeah shows how the importance of your mental development growing up. Absolutely now Carla began smoking cigarettes with her older sisters at the age of

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eight eight eight

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So we don't even know what a cigarette. Maybe I did but and

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At age 10 her parents decided that they were going to divorce and actually during these divorce proceedings during the court hearings

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She had found out that her birth was the result of an extramarital affair. Okay, so her mom mom

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Okay, yeah, I had had an affair and she was the result of my own. I know

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Well, her mom not being the you know having a good track record yet

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She was a prostitute and she actually introduced Carla to drugs and sex at the age of 12

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Oh my gosh, and then introduced her to prostitution at the age of 14. So maybe okay, so I mean again

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we don't know the ins and outs right like but

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But maybe I don't know did the mom's like because of the divorce did the mom starts to decline

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You know maybe she was already in there might have been because of her behavior

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Oh, I see okay

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So maybe she was prostituting on the side or maybe she was already cheating and she was like oh I can get paid for this

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Yeah

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Now get this at the age of 14 Carla dropped out of school

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And then she went to live with her mother full-time

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Where they both began traveling with well-known rock bands like the All-Men Brothers Band

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The Marshall Tucker band and the Eagles

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What so they started she was 14 and her mom was how a holder out of school to become a Garooby pretty much

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Oh my god, isn't that awful that is awful now when she turned 16

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She met a man named Steven Griffith and was briefly married to him. Okay. He was obviously quite older

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He was 68 right now in her early 20s. She began hanging out with bikers. That was like kind of her theme. Okay

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She was like a scene biker rocker chick

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Yeah, so she started hanging out with bikers and it was at this time that she met a woman named Sean Dean and her husband

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Jerry Lynn Dean. Okay. Her name is Sean, but that's the wife just to be clear because I got a little confused when doing research and

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In 1981 when Carla was 21 this couple introduced her to a name

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A name to a man named Daniel Ryan Garrett. Okay, and he was 35 at this time and she was 21

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Okay, I mean she's an adult

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But now after spending the weekend using drugs with Danny and their friends Carla and Danny entered

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Jerry Dean's apartment so the husband in Houston, Texas on July 13th

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1983 between 2 30 and 4 30 a.m. With the intent of stealing a motorcycle that he had been restoring

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So their friends with this couple your biker, you know kind of group. Yeah, and they're like, let's get some money

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I guess their their original plan was

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Carla had had a conversation with Danny and this accomplice that they'll end up having James that included wanting to go over to Jerry's apartment and

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Intimidating and them intimidating him into giving them money

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And then if he refused they were trying to like list out things that they would just steal instead

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Right much so like in order of importance pretty much. Yeah, I remember this case. Oh, yeah a little bit

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Yeah, just when you said with the intention of stealing a motorcycle. Yeah

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Like all came crashing

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During these conversations like two weeks prior one account had actually said that Carla was heard talking about quote

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Offing Jerry

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So it doesn't seem like the intention was to go over there and intimidate him

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It was yeah and steal stuff. It was with the intent to probably murder him. Yeah

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As well as steal things. Yes

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Now this night like I said another friend of theirs named James LeBrandt went with them to Jerry's apartment

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James later reported that he himself went looking for Jerry's El Camino because they were kind of steal that that was one of the things

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While Carla and Danny entered the apartment with a set of keys that Carla claimed she found she sold James

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I found these keys, but in reality she stole them from Sean and then convinced Sean that they were lost

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So she's planning this as fuck. Wow

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Why was just thinking that maybe James might only think they're going there to steal something? Oh, yeah

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I don't think yeah, I don't think he thinks that at this point. Yeah murdering anyone. I agree

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But clearly she's Carla's been planning this yes for a while now during the burglary

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Carla and Danny entered Jerry's bedroom where Carla sat on top of him

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You know what you do when you're trying to intimidate when you're trying to it's a real intimidating. Yeah, it might be I don't know

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Yeah, Carla actually later relayed to her older sister Carrie that when she entered the room

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She immediately put this pickaxe that was next to the bed to Jerry's head and told him quote

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Not to move motherfucker or you're dead

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And this is very weird because later it's like oh no like what was me kind of like but okay

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So again, she's telling people or like at least her accomplices, you know a

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Combliss that James that they're just going in there to steal stuff, right? Yeah, but who who was the other guy that's with her?

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Her husband Danny Danny. Well her partner. I don't know if they were married. Okay Danny. Yeah, the older guy

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I know Danny and Jerry's on very I know it was like Danny. Danny's the bad guy Jerry's the victim

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Okay, so yeah, she be lines it for his room and then it's like

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Don't move don't move motherfucker. Oh, you're gonna get this big

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Surprise mother fucker. Oh shit

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Now trying to protect himself, of course Jerry grabbed her above the elbows

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It was noted and this is when it gets kind of hairy because one source said something another source said something different

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So I'll give you both sides of it. Okay one source said that Danny

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This is when Danny intervened Danny then hit Jerry numerous times on the back of his head

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With a ball peen hammer that he had found on the floor next to the pickaxe and after hitting Jerry

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Danny left the room. I know why does he have all these weapons next to it?

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I was gonna say is Jerry a minor like he goes to the mining, you know

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He's a coal miner every day to go dig for gold like what is he's got a pickaxe a ball peen hammer

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Like I would say a pickaxe is a little out there for like a weapon

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Yeah, yeah tool like us right now after hitting Jerry with this hammer

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Danny then left the room in order to carry the stolen bike parts out of the apartment

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Carla stayed behind however and this is when James returned. Remember when James went to go look for the car?

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Yeah, so he returned at this time. He entered the room for whatever reason. Maybe he was looking for Carla

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Or maybe you heard her yeah, and he later reported that at this time. This is kind of bad

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Jerry was making a gurgling sound. Yeah, of course, which is what you do when you have blood and you know that area and

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According to James Carla responded by pulling the pickaxe back out

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Smiling and hitting Jerry again with okay, so like really fucking creepy. Yeah unless it's overkill. Oh, of course

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I mean, I guess you could justify it by saying she didn't want him to suffer or whatever it is

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But it's like, you know, are you trying to render him?

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defend like

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unable to defend himself or are you

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actively trying to murder someone yeah, exactly now this is when James LeBrant left the scene

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But he later helped Danny dispose of Jerry's car and I'll explain why

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Danny and Carla both reported that they were angry with James for leaving the scene like right after that

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I'm out of here. Exactly. This is what I signed up for I'm out exactly

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So in order to make amends and I put and to prevent them from killing him too

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This is why James came back later to help with the car so that he was a kind of part of it

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I guess maybe he was scared that they were gonna come after him next yeah saw something Danny after this point that James left

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According to this source Danny re-entered the room where he reportedly gave the final blow the fatal wound to Jerry in the chest with the

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Pickaxe Wow another source did not mention that Danny helped with Jerry's murder at all and

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Instead said that Carla stuck Jerry with the pickaxe 28 times while he was begging for his life and

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Repeatedly using her name when he was pleading with her

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So the first account was Danny's account of the events there was two separate accounts

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It wasn't either one of their accounts. I don't think it was different reports. I read two people. Oh

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It's two different reports. Well, maybe I maybe it was one of their accounts

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But it didn't say like this is what Danny said and this is what you know

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Carla it was like two different sources that I was reading right so it could theoretically be someone that Danny told

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Yeah, and then someone that Carla told yes, and then or James told and this is just different

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potential

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Interviews the police had with people. Yeah, and so and so we'll pretty much see that the first source that I read says that Danny and

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Danny was mostly responsible for Jerry's death and Carla played a role

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The second one says Danny didn't even help at all. It was all Carla. Okay, or that killed Jerry

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now

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Danny then left the room again to continue loading the bike parts into the Ford Ranchero that they had driven there at this point again

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Carla was in the room by herself when she noticed a woman

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Who had hidden under the bed covers and against the wall in the same room? Wow been here this whole time?

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Well, this woman was one Deborah Thornton. We're gonna call her Debbie. No one

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Now Debbie had actually gotten into an argument with her husband the day before

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And went to a party where she ended up staying the night in Jerry's bed with him

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Oh, well what happened, but yeah say anything like that. It was just maybe they were just friends or whatever

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Now upon discovering Debbie Carla and Danny knew that her that Carla's name had been said over and over from Jerry when he was

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You know being

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Hurt and the lights were also on and so they said well, she's a witness

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We need to kill her as well. Hmm now

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It's reported that Carla grazed Debbie's shoulder with the pickaxe where of course Debbie began to freak out because I'm next

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I saw what you just did to him

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The two started to struggle Carla and Debbie and it was at this time that Danny reportedly

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Re-into the room. He just keeps going back and forth. I know this room is coming in check in on yeah

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I'm sure everybody's okay or not

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So he re into the room and a reportedly separated the two well then Carla proceeded to hit Debbie

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repeatedly with the pickaxe and then

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Embedded it into her chest where it punctured her heart and this is actually where the weapon was found later by investigators

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She left she left it there. Yes

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Um, this is bad trigger warning

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Carla later made a statement and testified that she had experienced multiple orgasms with each blow of the pickaxe during both of the murders

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That's fucking disgusting

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So it's like not only are you like this monster of a person, but you're like genuinely enjoying you really enjoy it

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That's I just got a full body heaps

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Now the next morning Carla showed up at the house of Douglas

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McAnger Garrett who is Danny's brother at about 6 30 a.m. In Jerry's car, so she drove the car over there. Okay smart, right?

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Yeah, she yeah now. I'm trying to hide it. Yeah now after unloading the motorcycle frame from the back

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She said and I quote we off to Jerry Dean last night

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Just straight up. Yeah, and I'm sorry last night went to a movie murdered again. How cold is that we often?

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That's like you put something you hear in a movie that you're like now. No one would fucking say yeah

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We're gonna whack the guy. Yeah

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Now she told him about how Danny hit him with a hammer

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But she with a pickaxe and once again said that she received sexual sexual gratification

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So this is multiple people that she's told

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She then handed the brother Jerry's wallet which Doug immediately burned in an ashtray

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Although Doug insisted he burned it in an ashtray right fine. I mean seriously. I burned it in the sink like this

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It's bizarre

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Although Doug insisted they removed the motorcycle parts from his garage

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He actually later allowed his brother Danny to store some of the parts with him

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He actually disposed of the parts before going to the police, but led them to Dana Danny and Carla at a later time

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On top of all of this he also called a man by the name of JC Moiser

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He's a family friend who just so happened to be a detective in the homicide division

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What and he gave him James LeBrand's name as well. So he's like yeah, you can hide your

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Accomplishing murder shit here, but then I'm gonna turn around and turn you in like I'm sure it's I don't know what I would do in

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That situation I'd probably be like yeah

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I'm cool with everything and then immediately when I'm like run to the police. Yeah, I mean

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I don't I mean

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I think it's kind of a little weird that you would witness a murder like James did and not immediately go to the yeah

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I mean, but I get that

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Then he would have to really like explain what he was doing there. Well, I'm there to steal a bunch of shit

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Yeah, and then I witnessed a murder

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I wasn't there to do a bunch of shit

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Yeah, I was just passing through at 3 a.m

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So the brother Doug actually as well later assisted the police and obtaining a taped conversation

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Between Carla and Danny that discussed the murders. So idiots

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Dummies. Yeah

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Now on the other side of things on the victim side the morning after the murder one of Jerry's co-workers by the name of Gregory

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Scott Traver had actually been waiting on Jerry to give him a ride to work

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Well, he became worried when he didn't show so he went over to the apartment to check on him

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And this is when he discovered the gruesome scene along with the two bodies

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He also noticed that the motorcycle was missing and the TV had been moved

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So he looked I think he noticed that first and then he noticed the bodies

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He went to the go sit down on the couch to watch some TV. He's like, huh, this is just like cocked sideways a little bit

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Yeah, it's bizarre

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Now on the evening of June 13th, so this is the same day

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But like obviously that happened in the middle of the night and now this is that night

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Carla and this honestly cringed me the fuck out Carla and Daniel is cringy of any ways

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Carla and Danny were watching TV when they saw the news about the murders

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They reportedly laughed and giggled and said that they were famous and then they just called up James

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So that he could come over and watch along with them. Oh my gosh, they're famous. I'd be like get fucked

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I'm not watching that with you. Are you not scary?

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Now this is where I'm gonna talk about the bodies so a little bit of a content warning

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Examination of the bodies showed that Jerry had been struck in the head and had several stab wounds

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There were a total of 28 stab wounds 20 of which could have been fatal along with a fatal skull fracture

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So that's like pure fury over like that's that's way overkill. That is so unnecessary

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Now Debbie also died from multiple stab wounds to the chest and stab wounds and blunt trauma to the back

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Pickaxe like the one recovered from the scene obviously caused the wounds that killed them both

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well, it was very obvious in Debbie's case, but you know

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It could multiple people it could have been multiple, you know weapons and so they determined that that was the weapon that killed both right

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Yeah, well, I mean she has a pickaxe

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protruding out of her chest. Yes, I could imagine that they could say that

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But she wasn't struck as many times as Jerry, right? I mean, I don't know

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What it seems like right? Yeah, so yeah, I mean it definitely seems like it was mostly geared towards him

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but it might also be that

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Maybe it wasn't as personal for Carla because she didn't know Debbie

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But she knew Jerry and Jerry could tell the police officers like who they were

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Yeah, I was debating on whether or not I wanted to say this because I didn't want to sound insensitive

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But Carla nobody fucking has 28 orgasms in a row. Nobody like you said you had an orgasm with every blow bullshit

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Sorry, that's really terrible. That is overkill

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Like you were a fabricator. Yeah, anything else you're a fucking liar. Yeah, but you're the worst liar in history

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Now the investigation led to Carla and Danny's arrest just five weeks later. I

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Actually didn't hear if or come across I probably should have looked into it a little bit more

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But I didn't come across anything about James getting charged or tried for anything

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Well, you know what and a lot of times like that, of course like he was afraid probably to come forward

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Yeah, in general because he was gonna steal stuff. Yeah

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Um and of clearly he like aided in the disposal. Yeah evidence, but with his testimony

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He probably got a plea deal. Yeah. Now in September of 1983 Danny and Carla were indicted for murder and tried separately for the crimes

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Carla was originally charged with both murders

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But after testifying against Danny the charge for the murder of Debbie was dropped dropped dropped

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Any the okay, so she basically took a plea where she didn't have to get charged for both murders

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Yeah, when she testified against Danny. I also read that Danny was not charged with her murder either

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so

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Carla entered a plea deal of not guilty and was jailed while awaiting trial

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But it doesn't seem like either one has been got charged for the murder of Debbie at all. That's terrible

246
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She was just much of a victim is yeah charge for the murder, but I don't know

247
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I don't know if somebody has any information about that email us please

248
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Yeah, I mean it might not have been a first-degree murder charge. It might have been a different type of charge

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Yeah, of course

250
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And we'll get actually there's a lot of information in here about Debbie's brother, so we'll get to that

251
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I didn't find much about her actual

252
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Conviction or Danny's but I will tell you that the death penalty was hardly ever sought out for female killers, of course

253
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But however Carla along with Danny were both sentenced to death

254
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Now as soon after being in prison Carla took a Bible from the prison ministry program and read it in her cell

255
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I actually listened to that she was gonna eat it right I

256
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Took a Bible and then she ate it. I was watching a documentary on the plane and it said

257
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That the lady that was like like hosting them in the prison ministry

258
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She said that Carla like sneakily took the Bible like she thought she was stealing it. She was like she had no idea

259
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They were free

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I do that at like grand openings that trade her toes

261
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You don't have to sneak those their gifts

262
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Now after reading the Bible she later recalled quote

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I didn't know what I was reading before I knew it. I was in the middle of my cell floor on my knees

264
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I was just asking God to forgive me and honestly dude in this documentary that I watched

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It's called like the power of forgiveness or something and I'll explain why later, but she's it's like I almost believed her like she's

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Very convincing and she seems like the nicest fucking person. I'm like

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Were you just like really on drugs and that fucked you up? Are you that manipulative as a person?

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I mean, I would think she's that manipulative. I mean that's terrifying the fact that she

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You clearly she has no remorse by going around and telling people the story. Yeah, and that she climaxed a billion times which again

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liar

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You are a liar

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But I mean, you know what I'm saying like she thinks that

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That probably made her sound cool, which is even worse like

274
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Than just being like boisterous about it. Yeah, so yeah, I think that that's a bunch of

275
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Bullshit that she's like she knows she's gonna be on trial now all the sudden she's gonna turn her life around because she stole a

276
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Bible. Yeah, no, I don't think so. Yeah, so this actually says

277
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Carly became a Christian in October of 1983 and she later married her minister Reverend Dana Lee Lane Brown in 1995

278
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And they actually had a Christian wedding ceremony inside the prison

279
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Seemingly reformed

280
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Now, yeah, so I'd mentioned that Danny was also on death row, but Danny ultimately died of liver disease in 93 while awaiting execution

281
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between 1984 and 1992

282
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requests of Carla or requests by Carla for a retreat

283
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Retrial and appeals were denied

284
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But on June 22nd Carla requested that her life be spared on the basis that she was under the influence of drugs at the time of the offense

285
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She said that she was now a reformed prisoner and if she had not taken the drugs the murders would have never happened

286
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There's tons of people that do drugs and don't murder people literally like tons of people

287
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Yeah

288
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billion people

289
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like a billion orgasms

290
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Now this was

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Very interesting to me her plea drew support from abroad and also from some leaders of american conservatism

292
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Among those who appealed to the state of texas on her behalf

293
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were

294
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Bakri Wally Nidavi

295
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He was the united nations commissioner on summary and arbitrary executions the world council of churches

296
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Pope john paul II oh my god

297
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Italian prime minister Amano Prody the speaker of the u.s. House of Representatives newt gingrich

298
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televangelist pat robertson and ronald carcin debbie's brother

299
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What all of these people appealed to the state of texas on her behalf so that she wouldn't get executed

300
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But like still life. Yes, not out of jail just not executed. Okay

301
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Now the warden of texas's huntsville prison also testified that she was a model prisoner and that after 14 years on death row

302
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She had likely been reformed because he's a psychiatrist. Is he really no i'm lying. He's definitely a psychiatrist

303
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I think you're a word flyer

304
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Even with all of this the board still rejected her appeal on january 28th

305
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1998 hours before the execution

306
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George w bush who was the governor of texas at the time

307
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Refused the final 11th hour appeal to block her execution now while on death row carla was incarcerated in the mountain view unit

308
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Of gatesville texas that sounds too fancy mountain view mountain view. There's no mountains in texas east texas

309
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Oh, no, he's hills flat hill country about the mountain country. Where's the mount?

310
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Where's the closest mountain?

311
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,600
mexico new mexico

312
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mexico mexico

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The old mexico

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Old mexico oj oj mexico now she became the texas department of criminal justice

315
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criminal

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criminal

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criminal

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criminal

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criminal

320
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criminal

321
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Now she became the texas department of criminal justice's death row inmate number

322
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seven seven seven

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Right jesus that's fitting because she was all about god. Yeah this time

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Now on february 2nd 1998 state authorities took her from the unit in gatesville and flew her on the td

325
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She did it and flew her on the td cj aircraft

326
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Transporting her to the huntsville unit for her last meal. She requested a banana a peach and a garden salad with ranch

327
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Dang that sounds good. Right? It does look like my meals. I know not really i'm like

328
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,720
What was it something peach a banana a peach and a garden salad with ranch?

329
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,880
What do you think they were organic if I had to have one more banana in my whole life?

330
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It would be an organic banana. Of course. You can't have a different one. They taste the way all bananas should yes

331
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:25,840
It's so weird. I agree that and sumo oranges sumo oranges are the way that every orange should taste

332
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,480
tony knows what i'm talking about sumo oranges are delicious and you can get them every march

333
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,240
Oh, there's such. Yeah, there's a seasonal citrus. What's november? I know i'm excited

334
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,960
We're gonna have cold weather early this year too. We're gonna have big sumo oranges. I'm so excited

335
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Now carla also selected four people to watch her die

336
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Who included her sister carrie weeks?

337
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Don't know where the other sister was her spouse danin brown her close friend jackie onkin

338
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And ronald karson debbie's brother

339
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,280
Now the way that this works and I heard about this in the documentary which I did not know

340
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,120
There's a it's like a three box kind of thing in the middle

341
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,800
There's the table with the gurney and straps so they can put the in-mid on there

342
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,840
Right on one side and another room is the victims family and on the complete other side is the

343
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,800
Prisoners family and friends whoever yeah, so

344
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:22,560
ronald karson decided himself that he wanted to be on her side of the execution

345
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:24,960
Instead of the victim side

346
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,080
Now you may be thinking me why the fuck with the victim's brother want to be on her side of the execution

347
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,760
Why the fuck he actually supported the execution of her at first

348
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,960
But after a religious conversion he decided that he was against any and all executions

349
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Everyone's converting

350
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,280
I'll get I'm gonna get more into that in just a minute because I'll go because this is very interesting

351
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,440
But now the witnesses for the murder victims included debbie's husband richard

352
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,120
Her only child william joseph davis and her stepdaughter katie

353
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,520
Carla's execution was also witnessed by many members of the tdcj

354
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,640
Warren baggit and various representatives of the media

355
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:06,080
Before I continue I really just want to talk about ron really quickly because I've been kind of like hinting at it hinting at it

356
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,960
Because it also obviously seemed strange that he was on her side

357
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,520
Now this is his side of the story

358
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,480
He had actually gotten home from work at 5 p.m. The day of the murder or the day after the murder

359
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And he gets a phone call from his dad saying that he needed to go over because his sister had been murdered

360
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,560
He said he didn't believe it and it became real to him when he saw it on tv

361
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Their mother had died when he was five and his sister pretty much raised him the only two children of the family

362
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,240
So they were you know just them two. Yeah, she made sure he had clothes to wear that there was food on the table

363
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,600
He said that she would slap his hand if he did something wrong and made him do his homework

364
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,920
I mentioned that the mom had died when he was five

365
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,520
She had left their birth father when they were little very little and had been with this new man

366
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I'm not sure if they were married or just together. I see he took on the role of caretaker when she died

367
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,320
However, the kids didn't really want to stay with him

368
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,880
I don't didn't hear anything about abuse or anything, but they weren't it wasn't their real dad and their real mom was gone

369
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:06,000
Now when deborah was old enough she took it upon herself to travel to texas in search of her birth father

370
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,440
I think that her and ron had two different birth fathers is what happened

371
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,560
Now three years later when ron was 15 he left for texas to reconnect with his sister

372
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:21,040
He said that when he arrived he got really into drugs alcohol weed lsd. Whatever he could get his hands on

373
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,200
He just went down a really bad path. Yeah later on this is after deborah was murdered

374
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:32,000
Ron had reconnected with his birth father for a long time. He finds out that his birth father father has been shot and killed

375
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,320
Yes, he was murdered and then he found out that he had been murdered

376
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,880
He had reconnected with him and had had him in his life for a while, but after deborah was murdered

377
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,480
I didn't say how long after he found out that his birth father had been murdered

378
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,080
But it seemed like it was very shortly afterwards within like a few months damn

379
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:55,280
Now apparently his dad was murdered by a teenage male prostitute in his home. Okay. I want to talk about this case

380
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,600
That's why I'm mentioning this because it's very interesting

381
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Now ron turning back to what he knew began getting worse into the drugs and alcohol until he was given the bible that his dad owned

382
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,360
His dad's one of his dad's doctors actually gave it to him

383
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:12,720
Wrote in it for him and then after they went through the belongings and stuff the doctor gave this to ron as a gift

384
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,880
Hmm. He said he had never read the bible before and he was really fucked up that night and he began to read the word of god

385
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,440
And got to the part where they killed jesus and he said and I quote my god. They even killed god

386
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,520
So he said

387
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,000
He said that he prayed that night. Oh, bloody. Yeah, right. He said he prayed that night for the first time

388
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,480
He then went to visit carla in jail

389
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,440
Intending on being a dick and spitting in her face and stuff like that

390
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,920
And he actually told her that he forgave her

391
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,360
After getting his relationship started with god

392
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,720
He said that this is when he's hatred and anger was taken away and a weight was lifted off his shoulders

393
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:55,120
He also said that he continued to write frequently and visited carla once every two months all the way up into her execution

394
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,200
He actually that's why he decided to sit on the prisoner side of the execution room on that day

395
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:05,600
He was noted as saying that she did not need to die and that her and debbie were he knew that they were sure to get along in heaven

396
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,600
Because nothing bad matters up there

397
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:12,960
Again, I only mentioned this because I really would like to cover the story of his dad because that seems like an entirely

398
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:17,200
Different story, you know in and itself. Yeah, but I just think that's super like

399
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:22,240
Super big. I could not I don't think I could do that. I think that it's it's kind of

400
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,360
for me and

401
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:26,960
I feel like

402
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:33,200
He found a coping mechanism that works for him and that is throwing himself into religion and I think that

403
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:40,000
Clearly he had been through a lot growing up and for his sanity. Yeah, he needed that absolutely and and

404
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:44,800
You know with the loss of his sister and the loss of his biodad and yeah, totally

405
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,080
I can see that like he's already carrying so much why carry these extra things too like

406
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,360
Harboring, you know, these these bad feelings. So yeah, it makes sense now

407
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,560
I'd like to mention carla's last words because they're interesting

408
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:04,000
She said and I quote after being asked if she would like to say anything quote. Yes, sir

409
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,120
I would like to say to all of you the thornton family and jerry dean's family that I'm so sorry

410
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:14,880
I hope god will give you peace with this. She then looked at her husband and said baby. I love you

411
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,160
She then looked at ron and reverend. I love you. Sorry

412
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,960
Mr. President mr. Reverend

413
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:25,440
She then looked at ron and said quote ron give peggy a hug for me

414
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:31,280
She then looked at all present weeping and smiling and said quote everybody has been so good to me

415
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,440
I love all of you very much. I'm going to be face to face with jesus now

416
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:41,520
Warren bag it. Thank all of you so much. You have been so good to me. I love all of you very much

417
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,160
I will see you all when you get there. I will wait for you. That's what she said. That was her last words

418
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,600
damn

419
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,120
She was executed by lethal injection on february 3rd 98 and as the chemicals were being injected

420
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,720
She praised jesus christ licked her lips looked at the ceiling and hummed just like kind of eerie

421
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,520
She was pronounced dead at 6 45 p.m. Only eight minutes after receiving the injection

422
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,120
She was buried at forest park laundale cemetery in houston texas

423
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:14,000
This was interesting. She was actually the first woman to be executed in the state of texas in 135 years

424
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,840
With chapita rodriguez being the first being the most recent

425
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:23,120
Um was executed by hanging in 1863 during the american civil war

426
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:29,440
Karla also became the second woman executed in the u.s. Since the reinstatement of capital punishment in 76

427
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:37,040
Dang doesn't happen for a woman. Yeah executed. I mean it was particularly brutal, of course and that's like

428
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,000
I think the orgasm thing really did it for me. I'm like, yeah

429
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,000
Like that is a part that is definitely a part of

430
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:50,400
Whether it's true or not. She got gratification out of saying it. Yeah, you know and that's like that's creepy

431
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:56,080
That is the complete lack of empathy it for me for sure now in the year following her execution

432
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,880
Tucker carlson who was noted as a conservative commentator that is not my words. That's what it said

433
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:07,360
Okay, question governor bush about how the texas board of pardons and peroles had arrived at the determination on her clemency plea

434
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,000
To not let her you know her plea go through

435
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:17,200
Karla's an alleged that bush alluding to a televised televised interview which karla had given to larry king

436
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:24,240
Smirked and spoke mockingly about her who was being interviewed larry king larry king was interviewing karla

437
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:31,520
Karla, but this guy carlson was saying that bush was referring to this interview in which karla had given to larry king

438
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:40,000
And when bush was saying it he smirked and spoke mockingly about her. You got her

439
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000
You got her bush

440
00:34:46,720 --> 00:34:48,720
Another man by the name of fred allen

441
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:55,840
He was the captain of the quote death house team was interviewed by verner herdsog for the 2011 documentary called into the abyss

442
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:03,760
Within days after karla's execution by the way, this guy fred allen had managed over 120 executions at this point

443
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,320
So within days after hers, he suffered a quote emotional breakdown

444
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,560
I really wanted it to say mental breakdown so I could be like

445
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:18,000
And he actually resigned from his job giving up his pension and changed his position on the death penalty

446
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:24,800
He was noted as saying quote. I was pro capital punishment after karla fe and after all this until this day

447
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:32,000
11 years later. No, sir. Nobody has the right to take another life. I don't care if it's the law and it's so easy to change the law

448
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,400
So this is like

449
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,600
This is oh gosh

450
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:42,320
What an interesting case because it's not just about her and what she did but it's all of these like ripple effects that are happening

451
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,520
I think that's what really drew me to this case was all of the

452
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,120
Aftermath of even before she was executed. Yeah

453
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:55,280
The idea that she was going to be executed sparked all these conversations and all these debates and all these like what if what?

454
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,720
You know, whatever right or wrong kind of thing. What's kind of bizarre to me though is that?

455
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:05,200
I feel like people get executed every day by lethal injection not women and not women and not like women

456
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:10,080
She's a pretty woman. Yeah, I hate to say that but she was and she was I mean she was white. Yeah

457
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,240
I mean, that's just that's interesting to me. Yeah, that is the case of

458
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,480
karla fe tucker

459
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,280
and

460
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:23,280
Annie but I don't think he deserves to be talked about as much. No, she deserves to be talked about. Yeah, the story is much more interesting

461
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,200
You got her

462
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:31,440
Again, she wasn't necessarily diagnosed with anything but I'd like to speculate on what I think she could have been diagnosed with

463
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,440
Or what have maybe occurred

464
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,040
Now there is a disorder called substance use disorder

465
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,600
We've obviously talked about the fact that she was under the influence of drugs during the time of the crime

466
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:48,240
It is classified as a mental disorder that affects a person's brain and behavior leading to a person's inability to control

467
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,400
their use of substances such as legal or illegal drugs alcohol or medications

468
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,440
Symptoms can range from moderate to severe with addiction being the most of your form. However

469
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,360
Researchers have found that about half of individuals who experience a substance use disorder during their lives

470
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,960
Will also experience a co-occurring mental disorder and vice versa

471
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,800
Co-occurring disorders can include anxiety depression attention deficit hyperactivity disorder ADHD

472
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,640
Bipolytis order personality disorders and schizophrenia among others

473
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:22,560
That makes me think that maybe just maybe I'm not giving her an out. I'm just saying maybe

474
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,040
One of these things did co-occur and maybe that's what caused her to have that break because by all accounts

475
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,160
She didn't do anything even remotely close to that for the rest of her life after that

476
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:39,840
Yeah, you know, so that is interesting like I mean, I've I've definitely had my fair share of experiences with people that

477
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:47,360
Maybe they smoke weed every day, you know, and it's again not that THC can be an addictive chemical

478
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,120
But the habit can be a drug and the dependency and the dependent

479
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,320
It's made so different than smoking cigarettes drinking alcohol in my opinion

480
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,360
I mean if you overuse the substance you overuse the substance. Yeah, even you know prescription pills

481
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,080
You can overdose on water if you drink too much water it can harm you

482
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,080
It's true you get water poisoning

483
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:11,520
I know a kid in my class once that he said you can get cancer from apples because if you eat too many apples you go and get cancer

484
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,760
and like

485
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,760
I don't know about all that but

486
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,000
but it's true. I think that

487
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:19,360
um

488
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,680
When you have a dependency on a habit doesn't matter what habit it is

489
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:31,280
You're still not allowing your brain a chance to kind of like breathe and settle and realize like

490
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:40,000
Where your like where your actual like natural tolerances are and like how you can be tolerant around the world around like of the world around you

491
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,200
So, yeah, I total I can think and depending on what kind of drugs which they didn't really say did they exactly?

492
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:52,480
No, it didn't specify but I think what's really it really holds a lot of weight is the fact that she I mean even cigarette smoking at eight years old

493
00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,720
Yeah, so it's drug

494
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,040
Drugs and substance abuse at the age of 12 like you that's

495
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:06,240
More than 10 years before your brain is fully developed and I know very easily influenced your cognitive thinking and who knows what kind of drugs

496
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,720
She was experiencing while she was on the road exactly their mom being a groupie and like all that stuff

497
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,720
I mean even cocaine you don't know it's in that shit. Well, Drew Barrymore was going to studio 54

498
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:18,400
I think at 12 her mom was just dropping her off. It was like bad drew have a nice night

499
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,600
Call me when you need me to pick you up sweetheart. And then you know, she was doing cocaine all night. So

500
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,960
um, and she talks about how that still affects her to this day

501
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,040
so using drugs does not make you a killer, of course not and

502
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,960
I think that there is something to be said about people who commit crimes while under the influence

503
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,000
And especially when they've been under the influence for a long time

504
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:45,120
I mean for her whole life. She was pretty much under the as soon as she was able to kind of do those things

505
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:52,000
Physically do it for herself. You know, so maybe there is some validity in her turning her life over to god or jesus and

506
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:54,000
being able to like

507
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,640
Have a moment of meditation and not having this dependency

508
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,920
But I still don't believe in the billion orgasm things. I think that's absolute bullshit

509
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,280
She might have said that when she was high though. I don't know. Yeah, you could you could be a christian

510
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,120
I you want that doesn't mean you can do 30

511
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,000
Organs in one sitting

512
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,200
No, that's terrible

513
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,480
Um, anyways, that's the story of carlifetucker. That was kind of a short one

514
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,640
But I know I think I got you know some pretty decent information in there. It was kind of a cut and dry case

515
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,360
I mean, yeah, it wasn't really like a whole search party or anything like that. They kind of just admitted what they did and then

516
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,720
Right. Yeah, they got it seemed like it. Yeah

517
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:33,600
I mean I I kind of feel for the james guy a little bit like for him to have to witness that too

518
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:39,200
And I hope that he had an opportunity to realize that he probably wasn't hanging around the best people

519
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,120
Right. Um, so, you know, yeah, well, thank you all for listening. I hope that you're enjoying our content

520
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:52,320
We're hopefully living up to your expectation of content weekly and a couple days in between each

521
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:58,720
I can't believe it's episode nine already. That's crazy. I know it's gonna be episode nine and ten and a little bit

522
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,800
And ten. A couple days from now it'll be ten. In the meantime when you're waiting for new episodes

523
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:10,240
You can follow us on instagram at diagnosing a killer. You can hit us up on twitter at killer diagnosis. We also do have a

524
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,320
Patreon setup patreon.com slash diagnosing a killer

525
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:20,720
And please email us at diagnosing a killer at gmail.com because I found that one email but no more

526
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:26,320
I was gonna say somebody's subscribed to our patreon because I'm the only person. Yeah, I need to I still need to

527
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:28,720
I want my dollar back

528
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:35,280
It's bullshit. Well, we hope to hear from you guys soon and we hope you keep listening to us

529
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,160
And we love you. We'll see you on sunday for our

530
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:45,120
mental breakdown times episode three three point it three point it