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Hello. I'm Koelle. I'm Kenna.

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And welcome to diagnosing a killer, mental breakdown.

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B-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-breakdown!

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Well, well, well, well.

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We're gonna try to do these once a week for you guys.

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They are going to kind of break down mental disorders and unique needs,

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as far as psychology and all that other stuff.

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We're usually gonna pick out one from the DSM-5.

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So this week's is going to be Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders.

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We've been talking about that a lot lately.

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Yeah, so I know recently we did an episode about Richard Chase,

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who was diagnosed at the time with paranoid schizophrenia.

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The latest copy of the DSM-5, it has been reworked a little bit.

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It is no longer part of the DSM-5.

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They now refer to schizophrenia as a spectrum, much like autism.

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They no longer diagnose people with Asperger's syndrome.

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It is all on a spectrum.

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With that, the topic that we're talking about is going to be Schizophrenia Spectrum

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and Other Psychotic Disorders.

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This is according to the DSM-5.

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It includes schizophrenia, other psychotic disorders,

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schizotypal personality disorders.

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They're defined by abnormalities in one or more of the following five domains.

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These five domains are delusions, hallucinations,

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disorganized thinking, including speech,

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grossly disorganized or abnormal motor behavior, including catatonia,

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and other negative symptoms.

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If you have one or more of the previous, you may in fact be on the spectrum for schizophrenia.

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Yes.

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You also, I just want to note really quick,

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because I'm actually taking abnormal psychology this semester,

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and it's been so beneficial with my knowledge of psychology.

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I actually bought my own copy of DSM-5, I told you.

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It has to do with one or more of the symptoms presenting itself,

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that it has to be a reoccurring kind of, like,

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frequent, recent kind of realization, I guess, of these symptoms.

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Yeah.

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So some of the types of schizophrenia,

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like we said with Richard Chase's case,

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he was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.

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The previous types that were on the DSM-4 were the paranoid type,

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disorganized type, catatonic type,

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the undifferentiated type, and the residual type.

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If you guys want to look up which each of those means,

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then be my guest.

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I won't go into detail just because it's a lot.

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But those are the ones that have been dropped between the DSM-4

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and the DSM-5, and that's why it is that spectrum blanket.

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And the DSM-4, if I'm not mistaken, was published in 2008,

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and the DSM-5 has been revised,

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but it was originally published in 2013.

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So I think there's a DSM-6 or a DSM-5 R coming out pretty soon.

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Yeah, well on its way.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, but this is the most updated version.

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I think the diagnosing criteria is going to be two or more

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of each one of these presented, like we said,

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the delusions, the hallucinations, disorganized speech,

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catatonic behavior, or diminished motor skills,

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and then of course those extra negative symptoms.

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These are all disturbances that happen within,

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can be a one to a six month period depending on the type

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of disruption that you're experiencing.

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Which is terrifying.

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Yeah, and so it's got to be reoccurring, like I said,

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two at a time or two of those exuding behaviors

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or exhibiting behaviors within a few months.

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Yeah.

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And you're not going to find a case with all of those.

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I mean, it's very unlikely to have all of those

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because there's only, there's three different ways

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that schizophrenia presents itself.

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It's positive symptoms, negative symptoms,

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and cognitive symptoms that don't get into later,

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but it's very unlikely to have all of those.

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It's usually one or the other.

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Right, yeah.

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Two or the other.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Just another like little interesting thing about

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the schizophrenia spectrum disorder,

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the co-warmbidity is substance use.

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Like it's, it's, it's the substance related disorders

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are super high on schizophrenia.

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Over half of individuals with schizophrenia

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have tobacco use disorder and smoke cigarettes regularly.

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Co-warmbidity with anxiety disorders

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is increasingly recognized in schizophrenia.

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Rates of obsessive compulsive disorder are high,

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panic disorder are high,

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and that's in comparison to the general population.

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Schizophrenia type or paranoid personality disorder

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sometimes precede the onset of schizophrenia.

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So you'll see all these little like blitz of paranoia

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and that gets a type, type of behaviors

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like manic, panic, things like that.

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So unfortunately life expectancy is reduced with individuals

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with schizophrenia because of the associated medical conditions.

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Like weight gain, diabetes, metabolic syndrome,

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cardiovascular, pulmonary disease,

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they're way more common in people with schizophrenia

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than in the general population as well.

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Poor engagement in health maintenance,

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like cancer screeners are exercised.

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That also includes just taking care of yourself physically.

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Yeah.

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And again, when we were talking about Richard Chase,

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he started bathing as often and he was very unkempt.

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Yeah.

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That also can be a sign of somebody

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that is struggling with schizophrenia.

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Not to mention you're not going to the doctor

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or getting regular checkups when you're so preoccupied

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with these other things that's going on in your mind.

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Yeah, you have such high anxiety and paranoia.

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It's like, why would I go to a doctor?

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So poor engagement in health maintenance behaviors,

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like cancer screening, exercising, all that stuff.

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You're more at risk for chronic diseases

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and other disorder factors like medications,

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lifestyles, cigarette smoking, diet

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are also going to play a role in that.

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If you're treating all of these other symptoms

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like high anxiety or high paranoia

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and you're not actually treating the schizophrenia itself,

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you're also increasing your chance for that to become an issue

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because you are also now taking things that aren't appropriate

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for your brain and it's causing this frustration

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within the chemicals.

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I was just going to say a lot of people get misdiagnosed

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when they are presenting symptoms of schizophrenia

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because other symptoms are maybe presenting more.

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They're expressing themselves more.

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And unfortunately, they do get prescribed the wrong medication

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which then heightens their schizophrenic tendencies

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or their paranoia symptoms, which is awful.

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Yeah, so a shared vulnerability for psychosis

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and mental medical disorders may explain

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some of the medical comorbidities of schizophrenia.

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So yeah, absolutely.

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It's going back to Richard Chase

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just with the drug abuse and all that stuff.

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You're seeking something and nothing is working

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and it's only making it worse.

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And it's such a case that is really easy to relate that stuff to

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because he went through all of the very early on symptoms

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and then he tried to get help and then he did get help

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and it was working.

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The medication he was on but then his mom took him off of it

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and all this stuff and then it heightened itself and heightened itself

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and then it turned into this horrible, horrible crime.

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Not to mention Andre Thomas was also diagnosed with schizophrenia.

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I remember by the psychiatrist before they came back

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and decided that that was incorrect, which was not true.

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Yeah.

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But he was the one that...

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And he also saw help.

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Yeah, he actually tried to self-medicate with marijuana

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and that was thought to be the way to quiet the voices that he was hearing.

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And then of course, you know, the alcohol abuse

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and then unfortunately in his trial and of course he...

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I don't believe that he shouldn't have gone to jail or gone through trial

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but they used that against him and they tried to say that

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because of his drug use and because of his alcoholic behavior

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it actually heightened his paranoia and his delusions which it might have

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but that's not the reason for the disease.

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The disease is there regardless.

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He's trying to abuse substances and abuse alcohol in order to help himself

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not to make it worse.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Like to quiet the voices, if you will.

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Some famous killer cases, if you will, that include offenders that have schizophrenia

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and in no, again, I'm not going to use the terms paranoid schizophrenia or any of that

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on the spectrum of schizophrenia.

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And we want to be accurate with the current information.

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Of course. Ed Gein.

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Ed Gein was known as the butcher of Plainsfield.

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He's actually inspired many film characters like Leatherface,

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terrifying creatures in Hollywood.

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He was actually found not guilty by reason of insanity due to his schizophrenia.

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Bizarre to me.

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I mean that makes sense when you say it out loud

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but the insanity plea is so hard to come by

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and it's so hard to get, like that sounds about to get

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but like unfortunately, we saw it on Jay Thomas's case,

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it's so hard to prove to the court system that you're insane.

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Yeah.

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And the legal definition of insane is not the definition of normative people

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or people that aren't struggling with these illnesses, how they would define insane.

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Insane, yeah.

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And that's very unfortunate.

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Richard Chase as well.

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He went for that plea and didn't get it.

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According to psychology today, I believe it was,

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it's 1% of all murder cases have that plea,

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that have pleaded that, and only 25% of that 1% are actually found not guilty by reason of insanity.

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So that's like min school.

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Yeah, it is a micro, it is a decimal.

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Yeah.

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Like it is so rare.

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So I don't think a lot of people knew that, I didn't know that,

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that Ed Gein never saw the inside of a jail cell, he never went to prison.

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He lived the rest of his life in a hospital and died at 77.

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I actually didn't know that and he's one of the ones that I want to cover as well.

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Yeah.

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He's been on my list for quite some time.

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It is unfortunate though because some big, big, big name serial killers,

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like I know you're probably going to mention them, Charlie Manson and Ted Bundy,

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they, and we'll talk about them of course because we have to, they're just, you know.

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They're on a different type of spectrum.

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They are.

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They are technically not paranoid.

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They are, but they both tried to plead insanity as well as trying to say,

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and it was hilarious because they're like, yeah, get fucked.

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Charlie and Ted.

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Charlie get fucked.

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No, no.

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So another really famous case, David Berkowitz, the son of Sam.

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Oh yeah, son of Sam.

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He had believed that his neighbor's dog was actually the one that commanded him to take,

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to do these killings, which you would consider part of the cognitive,

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because it was definitely his brain almost thought closing in on himself.

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Absolutely.

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And him lashing out was out of necessity in his mind.

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Absolutely, absolutely.

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And it's also, if I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if I'm wrong,

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it's your own internal monologue that they're hearing,

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but they're interpreting it as somebody talking.

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It's not like, as far as I understand, it's not like it sounds like somebody,

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like if you and me are sitting here talking, it's not like it sounds like an outside person talking to you,

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but you hear it and you think it's somebody else even though it can be your internal one.

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It's like an inflated conscience.

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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So the last one I'm just going to touch on just as far as Schizophrenia goes,

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James Holmes, the Batman, what they call him, the Batman killer or the Aurora theater shooting.

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Oh yeah.

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I was like, I don't think I know who that is.

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Yes, I do.

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Yes, it's very recent.

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I mean, it's probably in the last eight years.

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I remember that.

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James Holmes has been diagnosed schizophrenic by 20 different doctors.

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Oh my God, before or after this?

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After the killings.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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I mean, sorry, but after the first like three, why did you need 17 more doctors?

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You know what?

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I think it's probably because they want to believe that this man did this out of malice.

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Yeah.

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And I think that with that diagnosis, I feel like maybe it kind of makes people feel like,

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like almost like he hasn't taken accountability.

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Yeah.

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And I see that.

256
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Yeah.

257
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And I think that's why they've done so many diagnosis with him.

258
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I can see that.

259
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,000
I mean, it's amazing.

260
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000
But I thought that was really interesting.

261
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,000
20 doctors.

262
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,000
Yeah, that's wild.

263
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,000
I don't even know 20 doctors.

264
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,000
Right?

265
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,000
I haven't even gone to 20 doctors.

266
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,000
So I'm briefly going to talk about, and I wasn't, I wasn't planning on talking a lot

267
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:32,000
during this episode, but I got this really amazing document from school.

268
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,240
I said I'm taking abnormal psychology, and I really wanted to share it with everybody

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because it is the top 10 myths about schizophrenia that people think are true, but are actually

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00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,000
true.

271
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Okay.

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00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,000
Shout out to Dr. Kahnbach for giving it to me.

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00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,800
This is actually from WebMD, so you can find it, and I'll put the link in the show notes.

274
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:53,000
So like I said earlier, schizophrenia can present itself in three different ways, positive,

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negative, or cognitive.

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Positive does not mean something good.

277
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It means that it heightens something.

278
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So it's going to heighten your paranoia.

279
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It's going to heighten your anxiety or your delusions.

280
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Negative is going to decrease them.

281
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So it's going to make you monotone.

282
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It's going to make you catatonic, like we said earlier, things like that.

283
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,200
And then cognitive is when those voices come into play.

284
00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,320
And that's not, that's just a broad spectrum of what can happen is also a lot of other

285
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,080
things that do happen.

286
00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,480
Now myth number one, it means you have multiple personalities.

287
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A lot of people confuse schizophrenic disorder with multiple personality disorder.

288
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They are definitely different.

289
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,100
It's one of the biggest misunderstandings.

290
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:38,680
So one poll actually found that 64% of Americans believe this.

291
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:42,880
So not to be confused with multiple personality disorder, like I said, or more accurately,

292
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,720
disassociative identity disorder if you've ever seen the movie Split.

293
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,280
That is what the main character suffers from.

294
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,200
So a person with schizophrenia doesn't have two different personalities.

295
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,120
Instead, they have false ideas or have lost in touch with reality.

296
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,520
Now myth number two, most people with schizophrenia are violent or dangerous.

297
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:01,400
That is also not true.

298
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,240
And they really portray that in movies and TV shows, the crazed killer is always psycho

299
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,160
and they're schizophrenic.

300
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,160
Unfortunately, that's a very bad stigma.

301
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,960
And the substance abuse that we're talking about, alcohol or drug abuse is actually what

302
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,200
causes them to become violent.

303
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,080
But the disorder alone does not make you physically aggressive.

304
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,680
Myth number three, bad parenting is the cause.

305
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,320
I would say that in Richard Chase's case, maybe because of the interest.

306
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,160
It's not the best moment.

307
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,840
Richard Senior was definitely terrible.

308
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:30,840
Yeah.

309
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,440
But it's also hereditary, right?

310
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:33,600
Yes, it is.

311
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,680
But mother is actually in particular often get blamed.

312
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,320
And because schizophrenia is a mental illness, it does have many causes, including drug abuse,

313
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,240
trauma and the gene transfer, like I told you earlier.

314
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,200
But scientifically proven mistakes that you've made as a parent will not cause your child

315
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:50,200
to get this condition.

316
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,880
It's not something that you can get.

317
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,360
It's something that you are susceptible to and you either have outside trauma or you

318
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:56,360
don't.

319
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,360
And that determines whether or not you tumble over or you don't.

320
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,320
And it seems like there is a bit of a guide, right?

321
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,480
I mean, it's not necessarily a black and white situation.

322
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:06,480
Yeah, no.

323
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,480
And like I said, I think I said it in the last episode that schizophrenia is transferred

324
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:12,480
through genes.

325
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:13,480
It is genetic.

326
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,000
However, it's not the disease that's genetic.

327
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,080
It's the predisposition to the disease.

328
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,600
And bad parenting can make it come over to the edge.

329
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:23,680
But this is saying that you're not...

330
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,440
A child that is not predisposed to have this disease is not going to get it if you are

331
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:29,440
making mistakes.

332
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,440
It's not contagious by bad parenting.

333
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:32,440
Yes.

334
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,120
Now, myth number four, if a parent has schizophrenia, you'll get it too.

335
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:37,520
Unfortunately, genes do play a role.

336
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,720
But just because one of your parents has a mental illness does not mean that you're destined

337
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:41,720
to get it.

338
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,920
However, you have a slightly elevated chance.

339
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:48,960
If one of your parents has schizophrenia, you have a 16% chance of getting it, which

340
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:49,960
is definitely not...

341
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:53,600
It's not low, but it's not high.

342
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,400
If both of your parents have it, you actually jump up to about 45%, which is still low.

343
00:15:58,400 --> 00:15:59,600
Less than half.

344
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:00,800
And this is super interesting.

345
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,680
If twins get it, if one of the twins gets it, it's less than a 50% chance that the other

346
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,400
twins are going to get it, even if they're identical twins.

347
00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:08,400
Wow.

348
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,400
That's science.

349
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:10,400
That's science.

350
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:11,400
That's science.

351
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,760
Now, myth number five, people with schizophrenia aren't smart.

352
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,160
That is simply not true.

353
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:20,560
There is just a lot of people just have trouble taking tests like memory and skill tests.

354
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,720
And they have trouble with attention, learning and memory.

355
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,440
But that does not mean they're not intelligent.

356
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,680
They just simply can't put forth the thoughts that they are capable of having because they

357
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,600
have all these things that are barriers to them.

358
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,160
Now myth number six, if you have schizophrenia, you belong in a mental hospital.

359
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,160
There was a time where people believed that there's a time now that people still believe

360
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,240
that however, people can live very, very full lives with schizophrenia as long as they're

361
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,520
properly medicated and they stay on their treatment.

362
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,680
Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen because having medical and health treatment

363
00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,440
is a luxury, unfortunately, in America and it sucks, but it is.

364
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,680
And that's why you see a lot of transient people that are suffering with schizophrenia

365
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,760
and because they do not have the money to get it treated.

366
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,840
Myth number seven, you can't hold the job if you have it.

367
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:06,600
Again, like I said, you can live a very normal life as long as you have treatment.

368
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,040
Myth number eight, schizophrenia makes people lazy.

369
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:13,320
The illness can make it harder for them to do their daily things such as dressing and

370
00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,680
bathing, but that doesn't mean they're lazy.

371
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,400
They just need help.

372
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,400
Myth number nine, it comes on with a sudden psychotic break.

373
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,720
I thought it was really interesting because it doesn't.

374
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,600
You don't just all of a sudden break and then you have it develop.

375
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:31,160
There might be some type of trauma that happens that makes that more forward presenting to

376
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,120
people around you in the way that you exhibit your behavior, but I don't think it's one

377
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:39,280
thing that creates schizophrenia.

378
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,280
The fact of this one is that some people do have a big mental event that leads to the

379
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,960
diagnosis but not to the disorder.

380
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,000
And symptoms can appear over time and they're actually really hard to notice.

381
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,680
So that's why people think that it comes on all of a sudden when it really doesn't.

382
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:57,200
Early symptoms of schizophrenia include being less social, showing less interest in normal

383
00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:01,480
activities and withdrawing from everyday life, but other symptoms like acting out delusions

384
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,320
and hallucinating can show up later, which is why actually I think it's somewhat of like

385
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:12,320
75 or 80% of people that were diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia didn't know there was

386
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,680
something wrong for the first while of their diagnosis, of their illness because it doesn't

387
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,640
present itself so abruptly and so aggressively where you're like, whoa, there's got to be

388
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,360
something wrong with that person.

389
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:27,880
And that's another thing that they say is like, though the cases of schizophrenia, it

390
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,640
has a one present prevalence rate in the United States, which is a shitload of people.

391
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:36,600
But they're estimated to be a lot higher if people just recognize the signs and symptoms

392
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,800
early and they are able to get themselves treatment and diagnosis.

393
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,400
And lastly, the last myth is that you can never recover from it.

394
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,400
Again, it can be hard to treat, but it's not impossible.

395
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,720
There's no cure for it, of course, but anti-psychotic medications can help stabilize people that

396
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:55,000
are suffering with this and lower the risk of future symptoms, as well as talk therapy

397
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,720
and cognitive behavioral therapy.

398
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,680
Those are helpful tools as well that can show you how to handle stress better and live life

399
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,680
well.

400
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,680
And then with the right medication and therapy, about 25% of people with the disease will

401
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,280
recover completely and another 50% will see improvement in their symptoms, but many people

402
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,840
again can live full and productive lives.

403
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:19,160
And thank you for reading that honestly because every mental breakdown we do want to tackle

404
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:25,120
some type of a diagnosis from the DSM-5 and again, bring light and awareness to these

405
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,120
disorders and these unique needs that people have.

406
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:33,640
We're not saying that people on the schizophrenic spectrum are killers.

407
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,640
No, that's definitely not what we're saying.

408
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,840
We're not saying that all killers have schizophrenia.

409
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,760
We just, again, want to bring awareness.

410
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,560
And like I said, people can live very productive lives.

411
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:50,200
In fact, I wrote down a few famous people that have schizophrenia, very successful people.

412
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,560
Albert Einstein's son had schizophrenia.

413
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:53,560
Really?

414
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:54,560
Yeah.

415
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,080
Edward Einstein.

416
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,240
Sid Barrett from Pink Floyd.

417
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,880
And Peter Green from Fleetwood Mac.

418
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,440
Wow, I did not know that either.

419
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:07,760
Mary Todd Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln's wife, had schizophrenia.

420
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,320
And one of the coolest ones I think is Vincent Van Gogh.

421
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,640
How cool, not cool, but like how interesting.

422
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:20,080
So like clearly people with schizophrenia have been leading very successful lives.

423
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,840
And these are, I mean, other than Peter Green and Sid Barrett, and I looked up when they

424
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,880
were diagnosed, it was unknown when they were diagnosed.

425
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:34,080
I mean, this is before medication existed for this and these people lived fully functioning

426
00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:35,080
lives.

427
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,080
Yeah, absolutely.

428
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,320
And it is, it's incredible.

429
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,760
I would hate to think that just because you feel like someone doesn't understand what's

430
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,040
going on in your head that you would hate to reach out.

431
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,280
And like that's it.

432
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:54,280
It's like clearly now we've had two cases where they've tried to reach out and get help.

433
00:20:54,280 --> 00:21:00,240
And it wasn't received properly, it wasn't taken care of and it wasn't maintained.

434
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,760
And again, it's not that you have it and you don't take it, even if you don't take

435
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,960
care of it, does it not mean that you will harm someone?

436
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:06,960
Yes.

437
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:13,440
Look for the warning signs, especially that overuse of substances, alcohol, your depression,

438
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,960
like all of these things can be triggering factors into you not being able to get help

439
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,560
or getting to the point of no return.

440
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,200
So all we ask is you take care of yourself.

441
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,120
It really brings it into perspective when you say that thing about the well-known people

442
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:31,200
having it because you know, how many times have you seen a situation on TV in real life,

443
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,600
whatever it may be, where if it's a famous person, whatever, like they're not going to

444
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,200
know, the media is not going to let you know about that, especially nowadays.

445
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,640
But if you see a transient person on the side of the road that's yelling at apparently nobody,

446
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,000
then you're going to judge that person.

447
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,640
When they have the exact same diagnosis, mental illness, however, the person that has a celebrity

448
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,040
has the money and the power and the secrecy to get the treatment and the person that is

449
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,040
living on the street, unfortunately, it's not.

450
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:58,680
It's the exact same thing.

451
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,000
It's just two different lifestyles.

452
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:05,880
So that's just, you know, try not to make that assumption based and don't fall into

453
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,080
one of those myths either.

454
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:12,480
You know, it's not, it's not, there's a big stigma around mental illness, but schizophrenia

455
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:13,480
spectrum especially.

456
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:14,480
Yeah, I think so.

457
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,680
It's considered to be a very unpredictable disease.

458
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:18,680
It's really not.

459
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:24,680
Bottom line, one person that you may not even know that struggling is a celebrity and you'll

460
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,880
never know that, but you will unfortunately come across people that are on the street

461
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,400
that have the exact same illness.

462
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,400
So don't be so quick to judge that one person simply because they don't have the resources

463
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,400
to care for themselves.

464
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,040
And that's very unfortunate, but it does happen.

465
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:45,800
Yeah, I think that my last point here might be give people the space to let them talk

466
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,080
to you about it.

467
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,680
You know, as long as you give people, like know that that's an open door, like between

468
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,200
you and someone, if you see somebody exhibiting these behaviors, just let them know if they

469
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,040
ever want to talk to you about it that they can and you won't judge them and you'll be

470
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,160
able to receive that information.

471
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,800
And maybe it is just a friend that needs somebody to talk to.

472
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,120
But for me personally, I would hate to think that I ignored these warning signs and still

473
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:16,160
didn't give someone the benefit of the doubt and the space to communicate what they're

474
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,040
going through just so that they can get help.

475
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,440
So be an open door for your friends.

476
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:28,040
And also, just wanted to quickly say thank you guys if you listen to this mental breakdown.

477
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:32,920
We of course are very heavy on the true crime, but we are also very passionate about advocating

478
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,200
for mental illness and mental illness awareness.

479
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,400
So thank you for sticking with us.

480
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,040
And I hope that you learned something in this episode because I learned something and I'm

481
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,280
just listening to you.

482
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,280
I know.

483
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,120
So we're going to be doing more of these.

484
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:50,840
If you have a specific diagnosis that you'd like us to talk about, please by all means,

485
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:56,320
we're probably going to for now at least stick to diagnosis that are prevalent among killers.

486
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:01,640
But I'm totally happy to talk about that tobacco one that you were talking about sounds super

487
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:02,640
interesting.

488
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,480
Like I always have anything to do with murder or any true crime.

489
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,480
But still an interesting thing to talk about.

490
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,440
And it's a little palate cleanser with the heavy heavy.

491
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:13,440
The content.

492
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,840
Richard Chase case that we just went over.

493
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:23,000
I hope this can be a little small palate cleanser on your way to work or something different.

494
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,560
And it's something that again, like kind of said, we're huge mental illness awareness

495
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:28,720
advocates.

496
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,640
So it's something that we're super passionate about.

497
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,080
And it's something that we enjoy talking about literally in our everyday life.

498
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,560
So when we find something interesting, we want to bring it to you guys.

499
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:38,960
So I'm so excited.

500
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,320
This is our first mental breakdown.

501
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,960
I think we like actually had to stop ourselves from talking to each other last night about

502
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,960
this.

503
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:45,960
We did.

504
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,920
I don't want to see you for the next 24 hours.

505
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:50,920
Right.

506
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,520
And I like that idea of maybe the next time we do a mental breakdown, like the other person

507
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,640
doesn't know what it's about, like what we're going to cover.

508
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,080
And I like the idea of or I like that we've been doing the cases.

509
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,840
Like I don't tell you what case I'm going to cover and sitting down.

510
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,360
And then it's like, oh yeah.

511
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,840
I like doing it that way because I'm finding out when the audience is finding out.

512
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,840
I mean, really.

513
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:12,840
Real time.

514
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:13,840
You think about it.

515
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,920
Well, thanks for joining us again.

516
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,400
Please follow us on Instagram.

517
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,240
If you want to keep up with the latest posts that is at diagnosing a killer, we also do

518
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,480
have a Twitter at killer diagnosis.

519
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,520
We set up the Gmail.

520
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,040
So it's diagnosing a killer at gmail.com.

521
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:30,400
And we also set up our Patreon.

522
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:34,720
So if you feel so inclined to donate to help us out so we can get the ball rolling on some

523
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,960
merch and some different different content and all that good stuff.

524
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,600
I actually really quickly just wanted to shout out while we were recording the Richard

525
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,720
Chase case.

526
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,640
We got an email from somebody that we didn't know.

527
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,840
Someone emailed us and it wasn't someone that we were poking and telling to listen to.

528
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,840
Oh my gosh.

529
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:54,840
That's so cool.

530
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,080
I'm not going to say his name because he didn't give me permission to, but I will say

531
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,240
that the content of the email says, hey ladies, I just heard your story about 10ing.

532
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,960
I happened to have grown up near Schenectady and lived a bunch of my adult life there.

533
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,400
I remember it while hearing about it as a teen.

534
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,560
Schenectady is just west of Albany about 170 miles from New York City.

535
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,600
So super nice email.

536
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,760
Thank you for the information because it was very clear on the podcast.

537
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,360
I didn't know where Schenectady was.

538
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,000
So thank you for that information.

539
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,960
If you want to, I mean seriously, that made my entire night.

540
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,160
I ran into the living room and told mom, I was like, someone that we don't know emailed

541
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,160
us.

542
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,400
I was so excited.

543
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,160
So please, please reach out to us.

544
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,520
We want to hear what you'll have to say and we want to hear your thoughts on the case.

545
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,600
If we left anything out, please correct us.

546
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000
If we did something that offended you, tell us so we can do better for next time.

547
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,000
Seriously, anything.

548
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000
Yeah.

549
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,000
If you love us, tell us.

550
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,000
If you hate us, tell us.

551
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
I don't care.

552
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,000
What is it?

553
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,000
Bad publicity is still publicity.

554
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,800
Yeah, bad attention.

555
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Any attention is good attention.

556
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,800
Yeah, no, totally piggybacking off of that.

557
00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,640
Even if it's something that just crosses your mind or you want to add to a case or you just

558
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,680
want to just say your piece about it, love it.

559
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,880
Also any personal cases that if you know, my godmother actually suggested like three

560
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:09,880
cases.

561
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:15,360
First of all, she knows about a lot of cases that were like real close to her like location

562
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,440
wise and also like a friend of a friend of a friend.

563
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,440
I'm like, how do you know?

564
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,120
I just randomly connected to all these parts of the family is what it is.

565
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,120
But she did suggest a couple for us and so I'm going to start researching those.

566
00:27:25,120 --> 00:27:28,520
They might be minis because they're not really big cases, but oh my god.

567
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:29,520
Interesting.

568
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,480
I think that I think right now is the moment where I'm starting to get really optimistic

569
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,520
because I told everyone at work of course and like a lot of people, you know, the friends

570
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,520
of mom and dad have been listening and stuff like that.

571
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,480
So thank you all so much for listening to us.

572
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,440
Oh, and I told Sassar this guy that plays baseball with Casey that I'd shout him out.

573
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:48,960
So hey Sassar, hey Karina.

574
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:49,960
Good to see you.

575
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:50,960
Glad you're, hopefully you're listening.

576
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,160
He was talking shit about the echo in the first episode.

577
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,160
Oh god.

578
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:56,240
It's been solved.

579
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:57,240
It has.

580
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,920
Well, we hope you guys keep listening to us and thanks so much for joining us today.

581
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,680
Yeah, thanks for coming to the mental breakdown.

582
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,280
We'll see you next time when we break down another mental.

583
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:08,280
That didn't work.

584
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,280
I thought it was going to be something clever.

585
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,280
All right.

586
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:13,280
Love you.

587
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:24,900
Bye.

588
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:36,960
Bye band.