Hello. Hello. I'm Kenna and I'm Koelle. Welcome back to diagnosing a killer.
You can say welcome back. Welcome back!
We are back for another episode of diagnosing a killer.
Hmm. And if you haven't noticed, we're really weird.
I should have brought water in here.
Do you want me to go get you water?
No.
Yes you do. I can see where you're going.
Okay, I'll just, I can text John. It's alright.
Anyways, hi. I'm excited to do this episode.
Yeah, I'm really excited to hear it. I'm, yeah.
I know that everyone kind of got like my take on like the way that I do research and so now I'm excited for them to hear you.
And we're gonna see the differences and similarities.
Let's get into it. Let's get right on in.
So, I decided to research a little lady by the name of Kristen Gilbert.
A little old lady?
And she's not an old lady.
I know, but little.
You'll learn that like her career is very early on in her life.
Okay.
So, Kristen Heather Strickland was born November 13th, 1967 in Fall River, Massachusetts.
I think I know this case.
Massachusetts.
Kristen was the daughter of Richard and Claudia Strickland and she had one younger sister who was seven years younger than her and her name was Tara.
Richard was an electronics executive, which I don't really know what that means.
Like, did he work for a radio shack or did he work Microsoft?
Yeah, Microsoft. Like, I don't really know. I didn't, I didn't research the parents. They're just not my subject.
Yeah.
And Claudia was a homemaker and she was a part time substitute teacher.
Oh, good for her.
Yeah.
We love a teacher.
We, they're the backbone of the education system, of course.
They're the frontline workers of the education system.
That was silly of me to say.
So, when Kristen was about to start high school, the family had actually moved to Groton, Massachusetts.
Okay.
And like literally every single account of Kristen in high school said that she was super bright and she had an amazing IQ and she was just incredibly intelligent.
Okay.
Unfortunately, that can be used for bed.
Yeah.
So, Kristen had also expressed throughout her life that she felt like her parents were really cold and distant.
And even in later testimony, if you will, she had said that her dad had favored her younger sister like way beyond her.
At least that's how she felt.
Not an excuse, but okay.
No. And I mean, I get that it's like a seven year difference and you're seven and there's this baby, you know, and the baby is going to be a baby for at least a year.
Four years.
And by that point, you're in your early teens and you know, so when you were seven, did you think that way about me?
No, because I had Cameron.
Oh.
I'm like, because we're like eight years apart.
Yeah.
But I mean, I guess I get it.
So, but you'll see that this, this need for attention becomes a pattern, right?
Yeah.
So by the time Kristen was in high school, she had started her career in lying.
She was described as a pathological liar.
Did she get paid for that?
No, I hope.
I would hope, I mean, I would hope nobody gets paid to be a liar.
Well, I don't know who would get paid to be a liar.
Fucking defense attorneys.
Oh, that's true.
So true.
Or an international good.
International spy, you know, like a liar, you know, like a liar.
So she was also known to be a thief and defense attorney.
Notably, one of her classmates had accused Kristen of going into her closet once when
she was at this girl's house.
Oh my God.
Taking a top of hers, then wearing it at school.
Oh.
And when the girl confronted her about her wearing the top, she basically called the
girl crazy and she was like, no, this is my top.
Okay.
Literally Cameron did that to me one time.
I swear to God.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
She didn't try to convince me that it wasn't my top, but she definitely lied about it for
a while.
And I was like, bro, I don't know.
It was just in my closet.
I don't know how I can do that.
I don't know.
It's like somebody must have left it here.
I don't know.
I'm like, I'm locking my fucking door.
Yeah.
But yeah, she called this girl crazy and they claimed that the blouse was hers.
That's gaslighting at its finest.
Right.
And they're just like, I bet that girl's like, am I crazy?
Yeah.
Maybe she has the same top.
She just, she looks so genuine when she says.
Oh my God.
That's awful.
Yeah.
And from the same time she had been telling classmates that her mother was physically
abusive and was an alcoholic and family would later say that that was complete bullshit.
Oh my God.
That's terrible.
Yeah.
When you're fabricating like abuse, that's, you gotta be mentally skewed.
Right.
Like straight up just fabricated this for attention.
So people would pay attention to her or feel badly for her.
Yeah.
And they would be attracted to young girls.
So she was never, ever short of boyfriends.
But according to many of her boyfriends, when they would get into fights or disagreements
or whatever, she would regularly throw temper tantrums and be physically abusive towards
them.
Like would scratch them and shit.
How old was she at this time?
This is in high school.
She's probably like 15, 16.
I was gonna say this sounds like teenage behavior, like underdeveloped frontal lobe behavior.
In my mind, it's probably like 14, 15 years old.
Yeah.
Like teenage behavior, that's kind of outside of the realm of, you know, yeah, like common.
Yeah.
And like you said, like hormones are a blazin', you know?
People get into fights, people lie.
So she developed this habit of lying and this habit of lying, especially to her boyfriend
started to develop in false, like false suicide attempts is basically like she would falsify
her trying to commit suicide.
It's like literally the worst thing that you can do to someone else's mental health.
She also started making up lies about herself to make herself like seem more interesting,
I guess, to people.
Oh, like she's been to Paris before.
Yeah, things like that.
But one of the most notable ones is that she said that she was a distant relative from
Lizzie Borden.
Oh my god.
The ax murder.
Okay, so yeah, I'm like, she's all, here we go.
And she was in the same hometown.
So remember, she had moved to Grotton, which was a different town altogether.
So really in this other town, nobody's gonna know whether or not that's true.
She's like, oh, I'm from there.
Oh, really?
Lizzie Borden's from there.
Yeah, we're related.
Okay.
You know who else?
Just like a lot of other people have been born there.
That's like us trying to say that we're related to like Tony Parker.
Selena.
Yeah, her Selena.
I'm gonna say that when I- I'm sorry, Tony Parker was not born here.
I don't know.
He's French.
He's totally French.
Well, we went to Paris.
So there you go.
Oh, there you go.
Yeah.
Yeah, when I- next time I go overseas, which is probably never, but next time I go overseas,
I'm definitely gonna be like, oh, I'm totally related to Eva Longoria.
Yeah.
Straight up.
And Selena.
Yeah.
So clearly around this time, she's exhibiting a lot of neurotic behaviors and she was
labeled strange by most of her classmates.
Wow, that's terrible.
Right?
Either way, again, she's very bright.
Kristen ends up graduating a year and a half earlier than her peers with honors at age 16.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's impressive.
Right.
And I was like, I was one of the youngest people in my class and they wanted to- they
actually offered for me to skip a grade in elementary school and mom and dad were like,
no, she's already so much younger than everyone else and her peers and stuff.
And I'm glad that they said no because graduating at 16 would have been, I feel like, for me
at least.
That's a lot of pressure.
Yeah, uncomfortable and I wouldn't have felt like I was ready to be out in the world.
And then the next step is college.
So it's like-
At 17.
At 16, 17 years old.
I didn't know college was 19.
Oh, why would you do that?
Yeah.
So that's exactly what Kristen did.
She went to college right after high school, after she graduated in 1984.
And she applied to Bridgewater State University in Bridgewater, Massachusetts.
She was pursuing pre-med classes with a focus on becoming a registered nurse.
So throughout this time, of course, a very bright and attractive Kristen again was never
short of boyfriends.
However, her behaviors towards them to garner more attention and control over her partners
only got way more serious.
Oh my gosh.
So a few years into college in 1986, she was dating a fellow student and he attempted to
break up with her.
And she hand wrote a note and left it on the boyfriend's doorstep claiming that she had
swallowed glass in an attempt to kill herself.
Okay, ouch.
And also like-
Yeah.
What?
I swallowed a bunch of glass and then-
Come find me.
Like, and then wrote a note while my esophagus is bleeding.
Yeah.
And then left it on the guy's doorstep.
No.
And then left it on.
That's very far from it.
Yeah.
She claimed that she swallowed glass.
So clearly, this is a problem, the threat was actually taken so seriously that the college
themselves told her that if she wanted to continue going there and continuing classes
there, she had to seek psychiatric treatment.
Well, good.
Good for them.
That's exactly what you should do.
And it was-
Clearly, she's mentally ill.
Right.
And it's not just this boyfriend's account, but several other people, girls that were
friends of his or any other boyfriend that she dated, she was disruptive.
She was noted as-
Yeah, like a lot of people had the same mindset.
Right.
So this was after some time.
So clearly, this was for the safety of everyone and for Kristen's safety, honestly.
The college was really concerned.
Kristen did not, however, attend these treatments.
Shocker.
Yeah.
In the same year in 1986, she met a man by the name of Glenn Gilbert in his hometown
of Hampton Beach, New Hampshire.
So I guess she was on vacation because it's on like-
It's probably about like a two and a half hour drive.
So the couple decided to live separately for the time being and they were in a long distance
relationship while he stayed in New Hampshire and she was attending college.
Well, not at this time.
She was attending college.
So at this time, she had started working as an at-home health aide.
And I only found like a few accounts of these, but it didn't really give me any more specifics
than other than at some point during her employment, she was responsible.
For watching a disabled young boy.
And while she was supposed to be watching the boy, she was going to give him a bath
and he was scalded from a very hot bath, basically, from the water.
He was burned over 60% of his body.
She just threw his ass in there when it was scalding hot.
So what's interesting is that she claimed that it was an accident, but the tub itself
is actually for disabled people where it's like a very specific setting that's set.
It's in order for like, in case somebody falls on it or whatever, it doesn't change the temperature.
So you would deliberately have to change the temperature of this bathtub in order for that
to happen.
And do you know what kind of disability this boy had?
Like, was he paralyzed?
It didn't specify it.
Because it almost sounds like he couldn't maybe physically lift himself into the tub
and she like put him in there.
Yes.
Well, that's exactly what it was.
She put him in there.
Yeah.
Okay, that's awful.
Yeah, and that's why they're saying like it had to have been delivered because she had
to have been manipulated to water.
Oh my God, that's so sad.
So he was like I said burned over 60% of his body and the parents of the boy did file a
formal complaint with Kristen's superior, but no charges were ever filed.
And at this point, this is unclear of whether or not this is her first attempt at garnering
attention through the means of harming someone else.
This is like munchausen by proxy almost, it sounds like.
Yeah, which is interesting in itself because I don't think she's ever diagnosed with that.
And munchausen by proxy, I know like you can make yourself sick.
No, that's munchausen, regular.
By proxy is when you do it to someone else and usually it's like a parent to a child.
Yes, but it also includes caretakers like a parent or a child to their elderly parent
or a caretaker or a spouse.
For sure.
Yeah, that sounds like munchausen.
What she eventually does is not munchausen though because I feel like in munchausen,
center by proxy, that you hurt someone else, but you don't intend to kill that person.
No, of course.
Yeah, and it's almost like gradual.
Like you start off with like little things, like petty things, and then you take care
of it and then you do another thing and then you take care of it.
Right.
That's why I said it almost sounds like it, but it also almost sounds like attempted murder.
Well both judge at the end of this of whether or not we think it's munchausen.
But I can tell you right now, Kristen was never diagnosed with that.
I was going to say, I think I do know this case and I'm pretty sure I'm leaning towards
murder and attempted murder.
Not munchausen.
Yeah.
So Kristen decided that eventually she did want to go back to college, but again, she
couldn't attend Bridgewater because otherwise she would have to attend psychiatric treatment,
which she did not.
God forbid.
So she transferred to Mount Wachisette Community College in Gardner, Massachusetts.
So she literally downgraded colleges because she didn't want to get self-help or like therapy.
She didn't want to admit that she had a problem, I guess.
How stubborn.
Wow.
How narcissistic.
And she took these into become manners.
She spent one year at Wachisette and then she transferred again to Greenfield Community
College while maintaining her relationship with Glenn.
Again long distance.
So Kristen graduated with a license in nursing in 1988.
So this was then two years.
So four years from when she started, but within two years we're going back to school.
Kristen graduated with a license in nursing in 1988.
So again, this is four years after she left high school.
And that same year her and Glenn eloped and then they moved to Northampton, New Hampshire,
which was closer to where he was.
So although not much is documented around the time that the couple were in the relationship,
there's really not a lot that was actually said or documented.
I'm sure stuff was said in the trial.
But there was one incident very early on in their marriage where Kristen actually chased
Glenn around the house wielding a knife.
Come again?
Yeah, I don't know.
Like my employers type shit.
It escalated to the point to where she chased him around with a knife.
Terrifying.
He actually had to lock himself in another room until she calmed down enough to put the
knife down.
What?
Well, what is that about?
What happened?
Oh my God.
I don't know.
And again, this is all testimony that he would give much later.
He never reported it to police.
Did he stay with her after that?
He did.
Yeah.
Glenn is one of those people that believes in the sanctity of marriage so much that
he would stay with his wife even after she'd threatened him.
Even if it kills him.
To death to last thought.
Yeah, they definitely stayed together.
So again, this is only probably within the first two or months of their marriage.
Wow.
Yeah.
This is going to be a long ride for you, Glenn.
So within the year of her graduating, Kristen ended up finding work at the Veterans Affairs
Medical Center in Northampton.
Okay.
So in their home, where they're living.
So co-workers described her as a very committed and highly schoolful nurse.
She never forgot a co-worker's birthday and was always in a cheerful mood.
She probably had a calendar.
Like that was there with everyone's birthday on it.
Everyone had calendars.
She's the one that wrote them down.
Yeah.
Seriously.
So they got her to organize gift exchanges every Christmas for disadvantaged families.
Okay.
And in 1990, she was actually featured in an article of a magazine called VA Practitioner
in the April edition.
So they actually wrote an article about her.
It seems like she really likes to be the center of attention.
Oh yeah.
And she really wants everyone to think that she's just this great person.
She's perfect.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I think that also plays into why she moved around so much.
I mean, she went to three different colleges in four years.
She's just wore out the cities.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Or people are like getting too close maybe.
Yeah.
You know?
So later that same year in 1990, the couple gave birth to their first child, a boy.
Okay.
They had a boy.
She had some time with her new family during her maternity leave.
And then when she returned, she insisted on being switched to the late night shift, which
is not overnight, but it's 4 p.m. to 11 p.m.
That sounds a little odd when you have a newborn.
Ish.
Yeah.
I think we'll see why she did it, but...
Well, I know why she did it, but let me just say, for everyone else's, I would be like,
are you sure?
You're a new mom.
Your husband doesn't need help getting the baby to bed and stuff like that.
Well, I don't know.
At this time, we also don't know if Glenn works during the day.
So it's a little easier for her to maybe find a sitter for an hour or something.
So it was around this time that it was actually kind of suspicious the death rates in the
facility started to spike.
After Leon Cardiac arrests or heart attacks.
Let me guess, from 4 to midnight.
Well let's see.
People started to take notice that patients seem to die under Kristen's care more than
any other caregiver.
And sometimes as much as double the amount of people would die on her shift than anyone
else's in a 24-hour span.
What?
And she's just like, whoops, like what is her explanation for all this?
She doesn't have one.
So recollecting some of these emergency events, coworkers said that Kristen was always calm
and in control in any situation at hand.
But maybe she's just a really good nurse, right?
Yeah, of course.
So some coworkers jokingly gave her the moniker of the angel of death.
Yep, there it is.
There's that infamous nickname.
Since people always seem to die under her care, like regardless of the situation.
And maybe she was just really unlucky.
And so again, everybody was just like, oh look, there goes the angel of death.
So funny.
So hilarious that she's on her way to kill somebody else.
So I think maybe, like, because things like that happen where if people find something
about someone that they don't really particularly like, they choose to talk about it.
And I think it's more like a thing that we do.
We become desensitized to that one thing we don't like about that person by always bringing
it up.
Do you know what I'm kind of saying?
Like it bothered them, but they didn't want to accuse her of killing people because that's
ridiculous.
But it bothered them.
So they made up a joking nickname, you know?
Just to kind of be like, oh, haha.
We're on to you.
Yeah.
Or are we?
Yeah.
So in 1993, Kristen and Glenn welcomed their second child, another boy.
Okay.
When Glenn's return to work, she had started spending time with a security officer who was
working at the medical center.
I don't know.
His name was James Perrault.
And his shifts were actually from 3 p.m. to 11 p.m.
Convenient.
And since Kristen and James had had similar shifts, oftentimes Kristen and her co-workers
would go out for drinks and James would be there as well because they're all going together.
Which is not unusual in itself.
Right.
Whatever.
Yeah.
I had the sneaking suspicion that she knew that James worked those shifts and maybe she
thought he was attractive.
So by the time she had her first shift, yeah, that's what I think.
I was thinking that she switched her shift so that she could like kind of fly under the
radar with these patients' deaths.
Right.
I mean, I don't know exactly what her plan was.
Of course you do.
Speculating.
That's all we're doing right now is speculating.
So typically when there's emergencies, security was also called to assist because they're
trained EMSs as well.
Oh, I didn't know that.
That's interesting.
So almost every single time there was a call, James would also be called.
Right.
Damsel in distress.
This gave James an opportunity to watch Kristen as well during her little moments of heroism.
But she probably thought she sucked because all these people kept dying.
He's like, yeah, you don't know how to do CPR.
He told friends and family that he was really impressed by her.
Yeah.
He's like, oh my gosh, this superstar I have a nurse.
She just rushes in and just happens to know exactly what's going on with these patients
and how to run a room.
Right.
You can't hear me on the microphone.
I could a little bit.
No one else will be able to hear that.
So of course this falls into Kristen's already obsessed mind with attention.
Oh yeah.
Her love for attention, especially male attention.
And I'm sure he's doding over her in front of her as well to her, to his family.
So eventually we all know where this is going.
The two began an affair.
He does, James recalls one night where he would walk her to her car and they would kiss.
And so that's where it started, is that he walked her to her car, they kissed and they
would do that routinely.
It's frustrating because it's not only that she's taking it upon herself to cheat on her
husband.
But she definitely probably knows she's married and has two children.
Well you would think, right?
Maybe.
I mean, I hope he does it because that makes me feel a little bit worse for him.
But if he knew that I'm like, hmm.
Right.
We'll talk about that.
Yeah.
Okay.
So pretty much since that moment, Kristen especially would find no last opportunity
to take James into closets, Haitians rooms.
No.
Even while they were in there.
On call rooms.
Crazy.
So I think they could find a location within the hospital pretty much.
Oh my God.
Isn't that like a conflict of interest?
Can't they not do that?
I don't know.
I mean, I don't know.
Maybe.
I know.
You know what it is.
Clearly they think it's funny that she is killing people.
Not killing people, but that people are dying around her.
They think it's funny enough, right?
A nurse said that one time there was a code that was called and James came in first and
he started doing CPR on this guy, right?
And Kristen was standing by and was like, oh my God, you look so strong right now.
I want to throw up.
I got to go.
I'm serious.
And she's like, look at your muscles.
Oh my God, your muscles.
Someone is actively dying.
And she's like grabbing his arms like look at your muscles.
No, she's not.
I'm not even kidding.
She didn't grab the arms.
Not even kidding.
But she's like, you're so strong.
Yeah.
It's time to pop a boner over here.
Someone's having a cardiac infarction.
So another time.
So this, of course, like Kristen herself starts to change through this affair, right?
She starts wearing more makeup.
She starts dressing a little bit more scantily clad at work.
Like she's changing from this almost soccer mom to this like vixen, right?
So being like, you're not supposed to be sexy at work.
I'm sorry, unless you look like a porn star.
But she wants the attention, right?
Like any attention.
So another time a doctor actually recounted that like the situation where another patient
was coding and James was already in the room doing whatever, but not CPR.
Kristen comes in, hops on top of the man that is coding, straddling him to perform CPR.
And as she's doing it, she says something to denote that she's wearing a garter on her
thigh.
You know, like when you're married or like when you're in a porno as a nurse.
Yeah.
Not an actual nurse.
What?
Okay.
The only time you should ever get on top of somebody and shadow them and do it when
you're to do CPR is when they are actively being transported to the operating room.
No, she was.
Yeah.
He was in a hospital room.
No, if they're going to the room to like the operating room and they have to move and
they have to move.
That's the only acceptable time to do that.
If you're just like in emergency because now they have those automatic CPR things that
they do that when they transport people.
Yes.
I mean, that was absolutely uncalled for and unnecessary and disgusting 90s.
Yeah.
In that bubble.
I would have cringed the fuck.
Like I would have been like, you know what, get off me.
I don't even want to live with your made out on top of his body.
Like that is so fucking cool.
Absolutely.
Disrespectful too.
She's so gross.
How disrespectful to that person.
So during this time, clearly, Kristen's need for attention is only growing.
And even more so was her need to keep James' interest in her.
So Kristen continued to create attention through the means of her patients, clearly.
So for the next three years, deaths had nearly tripled than the previous three years of her
not working there.
Even no one's noticing this like sudden change in demographics or statistics.
Coinciding with this, other physicians are noticing that there is a decreased amount
of epinephrine around the facility.
Just a shortage.
They're like, man, I swear there was like at least five vials in here.
Oh well.
So.
Like croaking over here.
Oh my god, I want to listen to that so bad.
It's worth it to stop for the- Okay, we just listened back to that.
I had to stop to listen to that and it's surprising.
It's worse than I thought it was going to be.
It's sound like an old man.
My last deathbed confession.
God.
Anyways, sorry about that.
It's allergy season.
Shit.
Continue.
So.
In early 1994, I can't even hold on.
I feel like my voice is shaky just from laughing.
In 1994, a patient's breathing apparatus had been removed.
I say what?
His breathing apparatus had been removed.
Kristen happened to be the first one on the scene saving the patient's life.
Oh, how convenient.
This is actually the first known case of evidentiary value.
I wonder how it was removed.
Well, I guess somebody saw her go in there.
That she likely had a hand in it.
This is the first time that she was witnessed going in there and then something happened.
So this actually triggered an unofficial watchful eye over the word that she was working in
by doctors and nurses.
Okay, so she didn't know?
No.
She didn't know that other people were kind of catching on, but it was kind of like a
rumor kind of where they started pretty much just watching her closely.
This seems like more of just a coincidence.
Maybe you keep an eye out just to see if there's any other coincidences and then we'll
coincide.
What's the plural of coincidences?
Coincidences?
Coincidize sounds cooler.
Anyways.
Like octopi?
Octopi.
Later in that same year in 1994, Glenn had begun to become mysteriously ill.
Okay, and he doesn't know about the affair, right?
No, not at this point.
So a concerned Kristen took him to the emergency room and went struck ill.
Yes, he just, oh, he got the vapors and she had to take him down to the emergency room.
So I'm sorry really quick, I'm surprised he's on family guy when Lois wants Peter to go
with her family for something and he's like, he made plans with the guys instead and he
ran upstairs and he goes, Lois, he calls her, he's like, I'm afraid I'm on my way upstairs
to change.
I struck ill.
He's like, I won't be a tennis player.
Exactly.
I struck ill.
He struck ill.
So a concerned Kristen, like I said, took him to the emergency room and so after a few
tests doctors had come back and told Glenn that he was deficient in potassium and in
glucose.
And one of the symptoms he was having while he was sick was that he seemed to be using
the bathroom a lot, like a lot a lot, like abnormal, a lot of diarrhea and urination
like all the time.
He thought that he might have diabetes because it was so frequent.
So I did a little bit of a research into this so we could maybe get a glimpse into what
some of the symptoms he might have been experiencing were.
So low potassium levels can actually make you feel really weak in your muscles.
You can get muscle cramps and twitches as well and you can even become paralyzed.
So it's got to be like, I mean, imagine the worst Charlie horse you've ever had in your
life, but that's in your body, like your arms and everything.
So it can actually actually cause abnormal heart rhythms as well.
Low glucose levels will actually feel same kind of the same kind of symptoms, which are
weakness in your muscles.
You can actually get lightheaded and dizzy as well.
So clearly Glenn's knew something wasn't right, like his body was fighting against
him at this point.
So he had become suspicious and he started thinking maybe Kristen is poisoning my food.
Okay.
I mean, there has to be a reason why his mind went straight to that and so he's like, I'm
ill, I'm getting cancer or whatever.
Well, and it was because he was kind of going in and out of the hospital as well after this
point.
So I'm like right after that hospital visit, I should have said that earlier, but he was
going in and out of the hospital.
So it would be like he would decline, he'd go to the hospital, stay for a few days, feel
better, come back home a week later, get sick again, go to the hospital.
So the correlation was home, like something was happening at home.
And whether he actually knew that or not, he was making comments to friends and family
about her wanting him dead before Thanksgiving because this was in November of that year.
And he would joke to friends and family and say like, oh, she probably just wants me dead
before Thanksgiving.
Like I don't know why you would joke about that, but again, he believes in the sanctity
of marriage.
He believes in the sanctity of marriage.
He's not going to leave her.
Weird flex, but okay.
So on another one of Glenn's forced episodes of illness, he was admitted again into a civilian
hospital.
And at some point during this visit, Kristen told her husband that because of her own expertise,
and she believed in the hospital that she worked at, that she would like to take a blood
sample for herself and go have it tested.
So while they're in the hospital room, Kristen takes out a syringe.
And as she's getting closer to Glenn, he notices that there's a clear liquid already
inside the syringe.
Oh my God, that is so terrifying.
So when he asked, what is in that syringe?
She simply said that it was saline solution.
And when injected, Glenn described the pain as cold and paralyzing.
Okay, you don't inject saline solution into somebody and then use that same needle to
draw blood.
That's not how that works.
This is his wife.
He trusts her.
Why?
And when he tried to pull back, she actually pinned him down to administer the rest of the
shot.
I had no idea about any of this.
Oh my God, okay, keep going.
So, yeah.
What was it?
Later it was determined that Kristen had been trying to poison him with a diuretic drug.
So basically trying to expel everything out of his body.
And he's like minerals, vitamins, everything.
What?
Did he survive?
So we're gonna get to that.
Kristen had actually begun telling James around this time that Glenn was physically and verbally
abusive to her.
All right, bye.
So again, making her look like a noble ass victim.
What was me?
Yeah.
So in response to this accusation, James pretty much went, instead of giving his sympathy and
empathy and understanding and try to coddle her, he said, well, if he's a bad person,
if he's abusive to you, you need to leave.
And if you're not gonna leave, I'm gonna leave.
Yeah.
Good for him.
I mean, he's not really going thus far because he knows she's married, but still good for
him for saying that.
So on behalf to both James and Glenn, this decision would actually save Glenn's life
because Kristen did leave.
Wow.
Right?
Wow.
So, yeah, I mean, he has no idea that his wife is having an affair, let alone the man
that she's having an affair with.
Pretty much, I mean, saves his life.
Wow.
Is that incredible?
Imagine, I mean, he obviously found that out later.
They should get married.
Right?
James and Glenn, 2021.
Right?
So, yeah, in December of 94, Kristen left Glenn and her two children.
I mean, honestly, they're probably better off.
So she moved into her own apartment and she eventually filed for divorce.
So bye, Glenn.
She's gonna keep your last name, though, Glenn.
It's gonna be Kristen Gilbert.
So in the same month, Kristen had offered another coworker who was, they were just,
you know, whatever on their work shift.
Her coworker had mentioned that she felt like she was having an asthma flare up.
And Kristen dug into her coat pocket and pulled out a vial of epinephrine and said,
I could give you some if you want.
Why does she just have that in her coat pocket?
Exactly.
That's not what doctors do.
This is kind of like people started noticing that epinephrine was kind of a thing or whatever,
but it still wasn't completely linked at the time that this was a problem.
But the nurse was also like, okay, like, why does this bitch have a bottle of epinephrine?
Yeah, it's not like it's a bottle of ibuprofen.
It wasn't something that regularly occurred that you needed epinephrine.
Like it really wasn't a thing where they were at in the specific area of the hospital.
So for those of you who don't know what epinephrine is, epinephrine is a drug used to increase
your heart rate.
And these basically they're like pure adrenaline shots.
Yeah, that's what I was gonna say.
They're for people that are already in cardiac arrest and it's to usually create that, like
if you have a really low heart rate or somebody who's dying, it's pretty much a last resort.
But what's interesting about it is that in large quantities, it can actually cause the
thing it's meant to prevent.
Yeah, you can actually inject epinephrine straight into the heart when you have open
heart surgery.
It's like as long as it's a small enough dosage, isn't that interesting?
Yeah, that is interesting.
Yeah, but it's like if CPR isn't working and the paddles aren't working, it's like another
thing.
And it's part of the drug included in like, like they call an epi-pin, like if you have
an anaphylactic reaction to like if you're allergic to peanuts or if you're allergic
to latex or something and you can flare up with asthma, you can also use it to treat
that.
Interesting.
I took a CPR class recently for work.
I got it renewed for the third time.
But I asked because you know, people have epi-pins like I said that are for, they carry on them
all the time in case of an anaphylactic reaction.
And I asked if they were universal, like if I was allergic to peanuts and you were allergic
to latex and I had a flare up, but you only had your pen on me, like on you could I use
it?
The answer is yes.
So if you find yourself in a situation where you only have one person's epi-pin and another
person needs it, you can use it.
Interesting.
And if it doesn't work, it's not going to hurt them.
Yeah.
So that was interesting.
So I'm just going to go ahead and pretty much say what we're all thinking here, right?
Kristen has been administering epinephrine to patients in order to garner attention.
Yeah.
And then she's saving the day when they do a code blue and she starts CPR and brings
them back or doesn't.
Yeah.
And just like James said, it's thoroughly impressive.
So she loves that.
And she knows just as she literally knows like just as much CPR to do in order to like not
save them like that sounds like.
So I'm going to go ahead and although many people suffered at the hands of Kristen Gilbert,
I'm going to give you the charge for.
Yes.
I'm going to give you the four patients that she has actually been charged for.
Okay.
Now I'm going to go ahead and do this now because I'm going to do it in chronological
order from when the story began.
Okay.
But we'll get to her pretty much what would be her trial or her court process in a bit
because it gets way weird.
So I also want to want everybody to keep in mind that because a lot of people are going
to be like, why?
Like how did she get away with all of this?
Right?
So currently at the center, they don't keep track of their medications.
Like there was no proper procedure to check out a medication for a specific patient.
Well, this was the 80s too.
Well, it's the mid 90s now.
It's not like it's the fucking 80s.
Yeah, that's true.
So I'm just again, I'm going to talk about who would be named as the victims that she
was charged for.
Okay.
So in August of 95, Stanley Jagadowski, who was in his 60s at the time.
He was admitted into the VAMC with a bowel obstruction and he was in stable condition.
He was even noted to have an extremely healthy heart for his age and Stanley was actually
a truck driver at this time, but he had served in the army in the Korean War.
Bowel obstructions can be scary, but it seems like they could control.
Yeah, totally.
Yep.
And I actually watched a documentary where it was the first account, like the first
person account from the doctor who actually was a part of these specific cases.
So it's a first hand account.
He's like, absolutely this guy, like, yeah, like I said, it can be scary, but he was in
stable condition.
He was completely fine when I left him.
Yeah.
And how old was he?
He was in his 60s.
I think like mid 60s.
After lab results came back, Stanley was to be on oral medication only.
Okay.
So that's a very important fact.
Yeah, because he doesn't have an IV setup.
Oh, he probably does, but not for medicine.
Right.
Just for the ceiling.
So Kristen was actually witnessed by another doctor going into the room with a syringe.
Like, in her hand.
Um, yeah, that's like sketch 101.
When he's only supposed to have oral medication.
Yeah.
Like everybody knows that, right?
So it would be later revealed that Kristen, for some of her patients, she would actually
do an IV flush.
Okay.
Which I'm not entirely sure what that is.
I think it's probably.
Either way, she was injecting it into the IV.
It sounds to me like maybe you flushed like a bunch of saline through the IV in order to
clean it out, like and clean out like the excess medication that you might not have
gotten with your body.
Right.
And she was put in a shaker.
It sounds dangerous.
Yeah.
It really does.
So anyways, Kristen had gone into Stanley's room and another nurse would later testify
that as she passed by the room, she heard Stanley yell out, ow, ow, stop, you're killing
me.
Oh my God, that's so scary.
My voice got cracky again.
Oh my God.
That's terrifying.
Yeah.
The nurse didn't stop?
Well, okay.
So again, I thought about that too.
I was like, well, I mean, but how often do they hear that?
That's true.
Because somebody's in pain?
That's true.
Or they don't like shots?
Or they don't like IVs?
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
So she didn't think anything of it.
However.
I didn't see it.
15 minutes later, Mr. Jodowski went into cardiac arrest and he died later that night.
That's so awful.
In December 1995, a patient by the name of Henry Houdon had fallen under the care of
Kristen.
Henry was actually 35 years old.
He served in the Air Force and was actually an assistant physical therapist.
And this is while he served in the Air Force.
So while serving, Henry had actually sustained a head injury of some kind.
It didn't specify what, but he was later diagnosed with schizophrenia.
So it was probably a pretty traumatic brain injury that he had suffered.
He'd been diagnosed with schizophrenia.
So other than this, other than this thing that happened while he was in the Air Force,
Henry was completely healthy.
He was an extremely healthy 35 year old.
So Henry was actually originally admitted with the flu and where he was going on, like
where he was living locally, it was almost like a pandemic.
It was really, really bad and it was killing people.
So in order to get ahead of it, he, his family suggested you should probably go to the hospital
just to be sure.
To be safe, you can quarantine, you can get all the medicine, all the medicine you need
and all that.
I bet they felt so bad later.
His sister was the one that I watched on the documentary and she was one of the people
that said like, I told him you should go to the hospital.
So again, Henry was completely stable during the day of his visit, but within an hour of
him showing up, he had suffered a cardiac arrest.
Within an hour.
35.
And people just believe that like, like it's not cause she got put on trial for it, but
at 35, you don't have a heart attack at 35.
That doesn't happen.
Yeah.
So a code was called.
And then with the help of other doctors and nurses, Henry was actually revived.
He was brought back to life.
So he was in stable condition, all this stuff.
And again, a doctor testified that he had, after they had stabilized him and everything,
he had a conversation with Kristen afterwards and he said, man, what a relief.
This guy is so young.
And she said, I wouldn't be so happy.
He's schizophrenic.
What?
Like she thought that she could kill him because he's schizophrenic and she was basically doing
it in my favor.
What a bitch.
And he said that he was appalled by this, but at this time, like it doesn't mean that
he was suspicious of her trying to harm him.
He just thought that this nurse was just a bitch.
That really sucks.
I mean, especially in the nineties, the stigma around schizophrenic, I mean, even today.
Yeah.
Is very bad in the nineties.
It's horrible.
And he's 35.
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm pretty sure at some point in your
life you could treat it.
Like I feel like it's a treatable condition.
Yeah.
It's definitely not curable.
But you can definitely manage it.
So unfortunately, Henry would go on to have three more cardiac arrests in the span of
six hours.
This poor man was killed pretty much and brought back to life like five times.
Well, three, three or four.
That is awful.
So each time he came, he came back, I guess, except for the last one.
You know, Kristen's over here like every time he gets brought back.
Like she was determined.
That's the way I feel.
I feel like she took it as a challenge.
Yeah.
She's like, no, this guy's going to die.
Like I'm going to kill this guy.
God, that's so awful.
You think that she would like snap out of it after some point, you know?
So both the family and other co-workers of Kristen simply thought that maybe it was a
medication mix up.
That's what the family was told.
That's what the family believed.
They did not think that there was anything else that there was, they didn't have any
reason to believe that it was a suspicious thing.
They thought that it was a medication mix up and they didn't pursue it.
I would still pursue it if it was a medication mix up.
For malpractice, that's what I would have done.
Yeah.
I mean, not to say that they did anything wrong, but.
Yeah.
So Kenneth Cutting was an army veteran and he was 41 years of age when he was admitted
to the Center for Sepsis.
He had lost his eyesight and the mobility of most of his extremities.
Oh my God.
He had lost his vision through things that I mean, it didn't really specify, but it
was other illnesses that he had had previously.
So Kenneth was a, like other than those issues, Kenneth was a healthy husband and father.
Kristen was anxious to leave work that day and she had made plans with James to go out
on a date that night.
She had passed by the nurse's station to ask her bosses that if, quote, if my patient
were to die, leaving me with no further responsibilities for the night, would I be allowed to go home?
No, she fucking did not.
The boss answered.
And what did they say?
The boss answered, well, yeah, if you have no responsibilities, you can go home.
I would.
Within a few hours, Kenneth had died.
Before her shift.
If I was that boss, I'd be like, why are you asking me that?
Are you trying to kill your patient?
Right.
Like, sorry, but like.
I know.
Well, that's the thing is like, it seems like it's right in front of everyone's face.
And that's so matter of fact.
That's like me being like, so if my table doesn't show up.
But then it's like you're going to go murder them.
No, I'm sorry.
You know what?
If my table leaves somehow, if they just leave early, can I go home?
But then you go over to the table and you're like, hey, could you guys fuck off?
No, not even.
Okay.
You know what I mean?
I know what you mean.
But what I'm saying is like, innocently, like, oh, if my table decides to get out of here
early, like can I leave?
Like I'm not going to do anything to cause them leaving.
Right.
But that's like a nonchalant matter of fact question.
But like if she's asking it about murder.
Yeah.
So hypothetically speaking, if my patient died, can I leave?
Would I leave?
Yeah.
I would be like, no, you're staying here all night.
She'd probably kill everyone in the fucking hospital.
Right.
That's what I would have said.
I'd be like, just because somebody dies doesn't mean there's not something to do.
It's not a fucking celebration for you.
You have time to lean.
You have time to clean.
Like, ew.
Oh my God.
I don't know what I would say if someone asked me that question.
I'd be like, are you fucking mad?
Like Edward Scare was in his 60s and was a World War II veteran.
He was admitted to the center originally from actually suffering a seizure from experiencing
delirium tremens, which are also known as DTs, but it happens with alcohol withdrawals.
And it can cause like shaking, confusion, and like in bad cases, it can cause hallucinations
as well.
And when was this?
I think this was early 96.
So it's actually like I said, brought on by alcohol withdrawals and causes shaking, all
that other stuff.
Most of the time it's not fatal, but it does depend on the severity of your withdrawal
symptoms.
So treatment is typically just some kind of mild sedative like valium.
And then the rest of the care is basically just like symptom control.
So like letting it like kind of pass.
So like when you're hot, you know what I mean?
Like get a fan on, you know, if you're cold, you know, it's like having fevers, hot flashes,
cold flashes, things like that.
Well, it's like withdrawals from any drug.
Like literally you kind of have to just wait it out.
You wait it out.
And you can only treat the pain really.
So later that night, Edward did unfortunately suffer a heart attack.
This is completely not linked to a seizure because when you have a seizure, it is your
brain.
It is not your heart.
Your brain does not tell your heart to shut down.
It is basically just, again, you might need respiratory help with your lungs, but other
than that, it's very, very unlikely that a heart attack can be caused by a seizure.
Yeah.
So they're sitting there thinking that she caused the cardiac arrest as well.
So by this point, of course, even patients have begun to see a pattern.
So much so.
Like patients that have been there for a long time.
So much so that when new people were getting admitted and if they could talk to any of
the patients that have been there for a while, they would basically warn the people like
they would switch off a first service.
Yeah.
Oh my God, that's so scary.
It was that bad.
So once, and I don't know how, this is something that I read and I don't know if it's true
because it sounds like one of those donkey lady stories, but once a man had told her
bosses, Kristen's bosses, people are dying around here.
Patients know about it and staff knows about it.
People talk about it, but no one's really saying anything at all.
Yeah.
I mean, it seems that way.
It seems like everyone's just kind of like looking the other way except for like the
patients.
Yeah.
And the staff is like, well, I didn't really have a lot of information about this.
Let's just let it slide.
Like people are actively dying.
For sure.
So this patient was actually dismissed as being quote crazy and later that evening,
he died of a heart attack.
Not even kidding.
Oh my God, I just got goosebumps.
Ew, what?
I told you, it didn't say who, it didn't say specifically.
It just said that this was an account that somebody had had.
I don't know, but it's terrifying.
So he was like really onto her and trying to like get her caught and she got his ass
instead.
Like Dexter.
Like you're on my ass.
I'm going to find a reason to murder you.
That is so scary.
So as suspicions grew, unbeknownst to Kristen, her fellow staff members had actually been
collecting evidence to use against her.
I forgot about that.
They were trying to be silent.
What?
I was like, they were trying to be like sneaky.
I was like, why is anybody doing anything?
I was like, oh wait, they are.
They're just not mentioning it.
Yeah, of course.
So unbeknownst to Kristen for a while, her fellow staff members had been collecting
evidence that would later be used in court.
So a nurse had actually watched Kristen for an entire day during her shift and she had
been using a very specific biohazard box that day.
And inside the box after Kristen left her shift, inside the box, the nurse found three
vials of epinephrine in the biohazard box.
A vial of epinephrine is a lot.
Yeah, three.
A vial.
Yeah.
Like they're called something else, not just vials, but they're called something.
Yeah, like the syringe full or whatever, but that's a lot though.
You don't need an entire one per person.
Yeah, I'm thinking they're probably only about two ounce bottles, but still, that's
six ounces of epinephrine.
But you only need 0.10 milligrams per cardiac arrest event or whatever.
Right, exactly.
So there's three of them.
Now what was really interesting about this is that I told you earlier that not a lot
of epinephrine is ever used in this ward specifically.
And what was interesting about these vials of epinephrine is that they are a grade of
potency that would never be on this floor.
So she was taking them from elsewhere.
From another part of the hospital and then using them on that ward.
But didn't you say that the epinephrine shorted was coming from that ward?
No, just in the hospital in general.
Okay.
But they never linked to different wards.
But that's again, they never linked because they probably didn't talk all that much or
whatever from the different wards.
But yeah, so that specific potency is highly only used in highly high emergency situations.
Yeah, like trauma, like the trauma unit or the operating room wing.
So that was definitely suspicious.
So the nurse definitely came forward with her suspicions to investigators or to police.
February 29th, 1996.
Yes, I meant to say February 29th.
It was a leap year.
The formal investigation was opened into the supposed murders that were happening.
So first investigators went through her work schedule and began to correlate her shifts
and the spikes in death.
So whenever she would move to day shift, it would happen in the day shift, night shift,
if it did happen in night shift, the deaths literally followed her.
You could see it.
Yeah, she's a fucking idiot.
Yeah, it really seemed like it wasn't that hard of a connection.
So police did the math on these and they concluded that 350 patients' deaths between
1989 and 1996, Kristen was on duty for half of those.
For 350.
That's an outrageous number.
Yeah.
Honestly, though, this kind of bums me out because the amount of time that these investigators
are taking and the staff is taking key tabs on her, she's actively killing people at
this time.
All right, let's sit around and wait and see if she kills this guy.
Okay, she killed the guy.
Let's go tell the investigators.
Come on, I would run into the room if I knew that she went in there with the epi.
It'd be like, hey, stop.
So authorities actually ruled out the possibility of a coincidence as being one in 100 million.
Oh my God, you got it.
So in the paperwork, citing emergency situations, 75% of emergency codes during this time that
required intervention were signed by Kristen.
75%.
She's just calling code blue all the time.
Oh my God, she took a car.
She was, furthermore, she was actually present in eight out of 11 reported fires.
What?
I know, we don't talk about the fires at all, but that's, that's highly sus.
That's just highly sus.
She just started fires, literally.
Oh my God, she's a Jane and all trains.
Jane and all trains.
Yeah.
So actually, another report would come out saying that Kristen herself was treated more
than 20 times in the hospital for a parent's self-inflicted wounds, quote unquote.
So in another portion of the hospital, she was admitting herself, saying that she was
killing herself, like trying to kill herself over 20 times.
What a narcissistic bitch.
Yeah.
Just to garner attention from another side of the hospital.
Yeah.
I need everyone in this place.
Like to pay attention to me.
Right.
At this point, James is beginning to really pay attention to all of these alleged rumors
about his girlfriend.
And as the investigation starts to rev up more and more, he decides to end things with Kristen.
Smart man.
We've all gotten to know Kristen just a little bit, right?
She's not having it.
She's not having that.
So Kristen attempts suicide soon after James ends their affair by overdosing.
She actually attempts or does she like pretend it didn't?
I don't, I don't know.
She could have just said that.
But either way, this attempt was unsuccessful and she was actually admitted into a psychiatric
facility.
Okay.
Finally.
Where she needs to be.
Finally.
So James is the first to kind of like feed into this manipulation.
He's like, oh no, like Kristen, she's so distraught over me and all these allegations, all this
other stuff.
I'm so concerned that he calls Glenn and he's like, I'm so concerned for her well-being,
all this other stuff.
We need to make sure that she has our support and all this other shit, right?
And Glenn's like, New Phone Who Does.
Bro, I dodged that bullet.
Yeah, he's like wrong number by New Phone Who Does.
So while in the psychiatric facility, Kristen actually calls James to confess to her crimes.
Okay.
Reportedly, right?
She says, quote, you know I did it.
I did it.
I just wanted you to know that I killed those guys.
Okay.
So I'm not entirely sure why.
Maybe I think that, okay, it's a few things.
Either she wants the attention clearly, right?
That's kind of her thing.
She might also be like, don't leave me.
I trust you enough to tell you this big secret.
Maybe if he loves me enough, he'll want to be with me or feel bad for me or whatever.
And I don't know exactly what she said before or after this.
Of course, we don't have it recorded.
But I'm thinking that maybe she thought that James would support her and maybe wanted the
love to be reciprocated.
Like I said, I love you enough to tell you something deep about myself.
Well, maybe, yeah.
And then maybe he would think, wow, what a grand gesture.
I'm thinking maybe she's stuck in the psych ward and she's like, God, this place sucks.
Maybe if I confess, they'll take me to jail instead.
I don't know.
Maybe that's another chance what I was thinking.
Either way, whenever she was released from the facility, she immediately went to James's
apartment, broke in in the middle of the night, woke him up and pleaded with him not to testify
against her.
What?
Yeah.
And he's like, whoa, what are you?
Get out of my apartment.
Get the fuck out of my apartment.
Yeah.
Who are you?
Anyways, James, who honestly, I don't think that he knew about any of this.
I think he does have like a solid head on his shoulders.
Yeah, I agree.
He did the right thing by entailing investigators immediately and then got a restraining order
on her ass.
Put it on, yeah.
So shortly after this, she attempts suicide again and yet again she ends up in a facility.
As a last-ditch effort to garner some type of attention from any man in her life, she,
and knowing she had a restraining order from James against her, she tried to get Glenn
to come back into her life.
So she did the same thing.
She called him and she pretty much, yes or no, kind of willed her way into giving a confession
to Glenn.
So why hasn't she been arrested yet?
I'm pretty sure this is all within the span of a week.
I'm not even lying.
When he broke up with her, she went to psychiatric, she got out the break in, back into psychiatric,
all this sort of stuff.
It's not that investigators aren't doing anything.
It's just so quick.
And all of these things, I mean, she only worked for the facility for three years.
Okay.
I mean, it's not a lot of time.
And then she had babies in between those years.
So it's, again, she wasn't at work a lot.
I mean, if she has six weeks for one baby, six weeks for another or whatever, however
long her maternity leave was.
So Glenn, who had been cooperative with police, didn't want anything to do with Kristen at
this point.
This actually led Kristen to showing up on Glenn's doorstep one day.
And when he answered the door, she tried to stab him with her keys.
Oh my God.
This is also after she vandalized both his and James's cars.
So she's just like going around bashing.
Going off the wall.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
So out of desperation at this point, Kristen doesn't know what to do because James has
a restraining order against her.
Glenn is ignoring her.
She knows that these people are cooperating with police officers at this point.
She actually purchased, I put a toy voice changer here, but I want all of my friends
and anybody who's older than me to appreciate this.
She bought a talkboy.
Okay.
I know what that is.
You do?
Yes.
From home alone.
No, in general.
I'm pretty sure we had one, didn't we?
No.
We never had one.
I was always so jealous.
They had a talkboy and a talk girl, and I wanted the talk girl because it was like purple.
Okay.
It was really cute.
Anyways, she bought a talkboy and I literally put in my notes, I always wanted one.
Anyways, so she actually called the VAMC and asked to speak with James through this voice
changer, right?
Like this talkboy.
What did she change her voice to?
Like everything low, like hello.
So when he answered Kristen, who is now apparently posing as a man, Kristen.
She said there's going to be three bombs that are going to go off and one of the wings
of the hospital and to evacuate the hospital.
Oh my gosh.
No fucking joke.
How like out there, like outrageous is that?
That's like, okay, my boyfriend isn't talking, my ex boyfriend isn't talking to me anymore.
He has a restraining order against me.
Oh, I've got it.
Bomb threat.
Yeah.
Like why not?
She needs the attention.
That's why.
So this specific word that she was talking about, quote unquote bombing.
Probably housed elderly and disabled people.
Oh, that's so messed up.
So it's probably like it's not able-bodied people that are able to do this.
That can just run out of the building.
And she said she was going to give them two hours, but still like to evacuate an entire
wing of hospital.
That's so awful.
It is awful.
So it's just like, it just shows like how much pleasure she gets out of other people's
pain, like and how she just like, she feels like she's Moses parting the Red Sea.
Like, you know, like she's that powerful.
Yeah.
Ew, that's so fucking narcissistic.
So what's interesting about all of this is that I'm being honest to her at the time,
she was actually under surveillance.
What the fuck is this?
These invests, we can see you talking into the talkboy.
Into the talkboy.
We're actively- Out of payphone.
Out of payphone.
No fucking joke.
That is- James was immediately like, it's Kristen.
Like I know it's Kristen.
And they're like, oh yeah, actually we're with her right now.
We can see you.
It's like a three way call.
It's ridiculous.
What a dummy.
Dummy.
Idiot.
So of course, you know, went through further investigation, eventually they got like an
actual call trace thing to prove that it was her, but they knew it was her.
They watched her do it.
So investigators actually got a search warrant for Kristen's house over her parents' house
because again, she was in and out of psychiatric treatment.
She couldn't really maintain an apartment at that point.
But she's all like, she answers the door and she's like, oh yeah, sure, search everything.
I have nothing to hide.
Because it's not your house.
No, she's an idiot.
So inside the house, police found medical journals with like literally epinephrine like
circled and like researched and highlighted in multiple books.
So of course, like they're like, oh well, you know, well, just because she circled epinephrine
doesn't mean she administered epinephrine to anyone, right?
I mean it is circumstantial, but still it's compelling.
They found the talk boy.
With the setting to man.
Non-suspicious male.
Not Kristen Gilbert.
Yeah.
God, with the setting to man.
I love that.
Oh shit.
Just man in general.
So there's actually a notebook that contained interrogation tactics and a list of people
who were potential witnesses to her crimes.
Was she just going to like kill them all?
Well, okay, so here's the thing is that it kind of implied the intentions of intimidating
a witness.
Like you have every intention to do what you've done to James and to Glenn and like the way
that she's harassed people and do that to people that she worked with.
How long was the list?
I don't know.
It was a hefty list apparently though.
It had to have been.
Well, because later we would find out that there's actually over 70 witnesses.
Oh my gosh.
To potential crimes.
Along with this, again, list of potential witnesses, the notebook also contained various
suicide notes and multiple drafts of various suicide notes.
She just had them ready to rip out and leave them.
Exactly.
That's so calculated.
It's like sickening.
Yeah, absolutely.
And it was every, every suicide note had a different like wild like scenario.
Yeah, it was just in case.
So Kristen was actually arrested on federal charges for the false bomb threat.
You forget it's in a hospital.
Hell yeah.
It's federal.
Get her ass.
Right.
Get her.
So in 1998, almost two years later after the false bomb threat, Kristen was actually
found guilty and served 15 months in federal prison.
She hasn't been tried for the murders yet?
No.
So it was actually, and there's a reason for that and I'll tell you in just a second.
She was also ordered to have psychiatric treatment and was found to at this point to
be suffering from borderline personality disorder or antisocial personality disorder.
That's a shocker to me.
I couldn't have told you that.
I know, right?
The first five minutes of the episode.
So while serving her sentence and of course needing a little bit more evidence against
her for the murders, they actually exhumed the body of all four victims to try that.
Well, I would say good on the family of the victims for giving them permission to do so.
Of course.
Because that's really helpful in a case like this.
Well, what was really interesting is that Henry Houdon's sister had said that they
had just believed that it was just a medication mixup.
And when she was approached by investigators, she was legitimately shocked.
She was like, wow, I didn't know that this was bigger than just my brother.
Imagine finding that out.
That's so awful.
So again, the bodies were exhumed and through toxicology reports, they did determine that
they were positive for excessive amounts of epinephrine, clearly.
So Kristen at age 30 was indicted on murder.
She's only 30.
That's what I'm saying.
At the beginning of this episode, it was like, it's going to be pretty shocking because
she's not an old lady.
This isn't a lifelong career.
Some people we may cover.
This is something that happened over the span of a few years.
So yeah, again, age 30.
She was indicted on murder charges for all four men and also on three counts of attempted
murder, which from three other people that they could actually prove.
What was not included in these charges are the presumed 350 murder victims and over 300
attempted murders throughout her seven-year career as a nurse.
That's wild.
She could potentially be responsible for that many-
That's every day.
That makes her-
Multiple times a day.
If that's true, which I believe that it is, that makes her one of the most notorious serial
killers in the world.
Yeah, absolutely.
A shitload of victims.
And this is again, like I said, it's presumed and this is more so because of those four
men that they have.
They're all within a few months and given as many shifts or as many potential deaths
or as many cardiac arrests that were recorded, that's what they're saying.
Because again, when we heard that number earlier, 350, it said at least half of that
were on her shift or whatever you want to say during the time that she was working.
What about all the times that other people were working or other people were in control
of these patients or whatever it is?
She might have signed off on a lot of those documents, but how many did she create and
just walk away from?
Yeah, exactly.
And that there is no paper trail.
Exactly.
That's multiple victims a day or a shit.
I mean, she's just going to like, oh, number three, number four, number five, literally
just walking down the hall doing this.
This is insane.
How freaking cold of a person do you have to be?
Yeah.
So there were 70 witnesses and 200 pieces of evidence taken into account.
The caseload was huge, of course.
Because of the crimes that were committed on federal property, the option for the death
penalty was on the table.
Yeah, again, dummy because she called an abomb threat to a federal building and they committed
these murders in a federal building.
And they're veterans.
Like, come on.
And you took a freaking oath.
The Hippocratic oath, do no harm.
That's the first thing on there.
That's all that you're doing.
So it's actually, yeah, we know that, but maybe not a lot of people know that it's incredibly
rare for a woman to get the death penalty.
What's kind of coincidental or ironic about it is that if she were to be found guilty,
guilty, and sentenced to death, it would be by lethal injection.
Interesting, right?
Yeah, that is interesting.
It goes around, comes around.
Incredibly ironic for a woman who lethally injected people as an MO.
So Kristen pleaded not guilty.
Of course she fucking did.
Yeah.
She didn't think that she did anything wrong.
Like I think about the guy that was diagnosed schizophrenic.
Like she thought that she was helping that guy.
Yeah.
She probably did.
Well, she probably didn't think she was helping.
I don't know.
She's terrible.
Kristen was actually described as stoic, deadpan, and cold throughout the proceedings.
That does not surprise me at all.
So on March 14th, 2001, Kristen was found guilty on all charges.
Good.
Every single one.
So four murders and three attempted.
So Glenn and Kristen's parents had actually pleaded with the court to allow Kristen to
live because they were worried about Glenn's kids, like psychological things.
So like their well-being.
So which kind of makes sense.
I mean, yeah, but she did leave when they were very young.
And I don't want to say it's easy, but he could have taken the route of trying to shelter
them from, you know, that's not totally possible because he doesn't see them and doesn't have
access to them 24 seven.
They're going to go to school eventually.
They're going to hear about these things.
Right.
Another thing that a lot of people feel really strongly about even jury members is especially
when a defendant has children and they have been, you know, convicted of a murder and
they might have the death penalty on the table is that they're also robbing those children
from ever getting to know that parent like for the rest of forever.
Yeah.
But do they really want to though?
Well, they may or may not though, but that decision shouldn't be made for them is the
way that some people feel.
So she was given four live sentences without the possibility of parole plus 20 more years
for the attempted for life.
Four life sentences without parole.
Yeah.
So of course, Kristen tried to appeal her conviction.
Don't they all?
Well, what's interesting is that so she still even to this day claims that she's innocent.
However, if she were to appeal and they were able to find her guilty again, which they
would, yeah, the death penalty would be on the table again.
Therefore she has not ever filed an appeal.
Yeah, because she's like scared shitless.
Well, that just that admits and it shows that she knows she's guilty.
Yeah, that totally shows her guilt.
Like she knows that she's going to get convicted again.
Yeah, exactly.
So anyways, that's Kristen Gilbert.
That is a truly tragic story and the fact that she was able to have access to that many patients
and ultimately end all of their lives is terrible.
It is terrible, especially veterans, people who have survived wars.
Yeah.
And they can't know when they go over there.
The other person is at least they know that this person is trying to kill them.
Yeah.
But you come in seeking help from medical emergency or medical issue and yeah, safe places that
you can be.
Yeah.
And so you think.
And again, you're in a federal building.
Yeah.
Like you are in a veteran hospital.
You think that you are going to get the best treatment.
Yeah.
You know, it's just really sad.
Did she ever get actually diagnosed with anything or did she we just speculating here?
She currently resides in a prison in Fort Worth, Texas.
She's still alive.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
How old is she?
Well, she was convicted when she was 30 and that had to have been 98.
She's got to be.
Oh, she's 54.
Oh, she's 55.
55.
Oh, she's kind of ugly.
Well, she was really pretty back then.
If you look at pictures of her, she's like blonde.
I don't know.
She probably she's probably a pill popper.
Well, that's like a really like thank you for sharing that.
I knew a little bit about that case.
I had no idea about the things with Glenn.
Like that's intense.
Glenn, I just like the entirety and this is all stuff I had to like find.
Yeah.
It wasn't like just on like wiki, you know, like you had to I had to really dig into and
just kind of figure out like what that mindset might be like.
Yeah.
Anyway, so but like I mentioned earlier that she had borderline personality disorder with
anti-social behaviors, borderline personality disorder is described as a mental disorder
that's characterized by unstable moods, behaviors and relationships.
Clearly, she's hit and eat every single one of those.
So the cause of borderline personality disorder isn't really well understood at this point,
but diagnosis is made through symptoms.
So some of those symptoms are emotional instability, feelings of worthlessness, insecurity, impulsivity
and impaired social relationships like to a T. This is Kristin.
So people might experience anti-social behavior, compulsive behaviors, hostility, impulsivity,
irritability, risk taking behaviors, self-destructive behavior, self-harm, which she again had claimed
to have done and eventually did do.
Social isolation or lack of restraint that again sounds like Kristin.
The moods you might experience are going to be anger, anxiety, general discontent, guilt,
loneliness, mood swings or sadness.
Psychologically, you'll experience depression, distorted self-images, grandiosity or narcissism.
And of course, also very common are thoughts of suicide.
Grandiosity is like when you think like more highly of yourself than everybody else.
You're like, oh, I'm more important than you.
So treatment usually consists of some type of therapy like talk therapy.
In some cases, there are medications available and hospitalization even if like if some
symptoms are really severe.
So some of the therapies you might seek would be cognitive behavioral therapies, anger management,
dialectical behavior therapy, transference focused psychotherapy, some other types of
psychotherapy and then schemia therapy.
So yeah.
That's like super interesting.
Borderline personality disorder is very hard to diagnose.
Borderline personality disorder is very unique because it's like, you know right from wrong,
but you don't care in some cases.
And that's what can make people that are diagnosed with those illnesses or suffering from those
illnesses very unpredictable and very violent.
And then they seemingly have no remorse.
Wow.
That was an intense case.
It really is.
Yeah.
I really wish that they could have charged her for all of the victims that she unfortunately
took lives from because I think everybody deserves to have that justice.
But I also understand the want to like make sure you have concrete evidence and only kind
of narrow down those charges in order to make sure that she goes away for good.
Right.
I feel like that is a pretty serious accusation and especially in a federal building knowing
that it was likely going to end up in the conviction that it did.
I'm sure these investigators wanted to make sure they had as much proof as possible.
And especially if they thought that they only had one chance to get it right.
I know.
Absolutely.
Well thanks for sharing.
I really hope that everybody is enjoying our content.
I hope that we're being thorough enough in our research.
I think that we are.
So if you have anything that you want to add we're going to be working on getting that
line of communication open pretty soon.
So we'll let you know as soon as we have everything set up.
And maybe by the time you're watching this we might.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
So we'll let you know about that and we will be back.
I think we're going to try to start posting content on Thursdays.
So we'll post.
Yeah.
We'll be posting on Thursdays.
So we'll be looking out for those new episodes on Thursdays.
And we will see you next time.
Yeah.
We're going to really try to stick to a weekly schedule for you guys.
Alright.
Well, until next time.
Love you.
Bye.