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Hello! Hello! I'm Koelle. I'm Kenna. Welcome to the first episode of Diagnosing a Killer.

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My stomach is so full of fur. Oh my god, I'm jealous. Just so much soup. I'm so jealous. I had no

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Miller and it actually didn't even snack today. I was a little disappointed. I dropped my tea all over the floor. You did!

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Before you even came inside, you came in with an empty cup. It's crying. RIP to my sweet tea. Well, I didn't need it anyways.

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Did you end up taking that green tea? No, I drank Kasey's tea because he loves me. Oh, that's sweet.

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I always have to have tea somewhere, like if it's urban latte or green tea or something. Yeah.

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We are super excited to introduce our new podcast. We have been thinking about this concept for quite a while and both of us are very interested in true crime and we are both big advocates for the mental health community and mental health awareness.

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I think that we decided we wanted to put those two together and create this little child that was. True crime has been blowing up in this way.

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More so when you talk about the mental health awareness aspect of some of these cases. I'm really excited to get both of those out there.

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It's going to be thrilling and entertaining and thought-provoking. I'm really excited.

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Yeah, and on top of thrilling, entertaining, thought-provoking, those things that you do get with true crime, it'll also be educational and it'll help bring awareness and hopefully you will learn something throughout this process.

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Not only just about true crime, but about mental health and mental illness.

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I think one of my big goals personally is to drive that sense of compassion into people when you do think about mental health and how it does. It can affect people to the point of committing crimes and it's very unfortunate.

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We're not by any way saying that people that are mentally ill will commit crimes, but it does correlate. It does have some sort of prevalence in the cases that we're going to talk about.

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It's good to be aware of those things. Just in a general standpoint with mental health, if you know somebody that's struggling, maybe you'll be able to help you understand that more and be able to be a little bit more compassionate towards them.

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Right. And I think that's a theme that we'll end up seeing is that it's either people that have gone undiagnosed or people that have gone without treatment.

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Or even people that didn't find any of that compassion growing up or maybe in a relationship that a lot of these people were ignored or shoved to the side or didn't have that availability or openness with another person enough to be able to express themselves and then get the help that they needed.

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Absolutely. And we definitely want to hear from you guys. I know our plan is to get some sort of line of communication open, so we're eventually going to have an email set up and social media as well as maybe a couple of other ways to get in contact with us.

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For sure.

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Well, I do have my very first case and I'm really excited to share it with you. This is actually a local case. So this happened just north of Dallas, Texas.

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Okay.

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So we're from South Texas because in case anybody's listening that doesn't know us, like all two of you that are listening to this.

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So yeah, we're going to be talking about Andre Thomas today.

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Okay.

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So Andre Thomas was born on March 17, 1983 to Rochelle and Danny Thomas. He was the fourth of six boys, raised mostly by their mother in Sherman, Texas. So that's a little bit north of Dallas.

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What their dad do.

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So I'll get into them. They were together, I think until Andre was about three.

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Okay.

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They were kind of like back and forth and then he just kind of like took off eventually and I'll explain why.

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Okay.

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So Rochelle, the mother was actually an alcoholic that also suffered from depression. She had actually experienced sexual abuse early on in her life. So it's really unfortunate.

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Yeah, that's traumatic. I mean, you definitely carry that with you for the rest of your life.

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I mean, that explains almost the alcoholism and depression to me. You know, she's actually not the only person in the family to experience mental illness on her kind of generation wise.

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There were other family members that also suffered from things such as depression, substance abuse and violence. Actually, 10 years before Andre was even born, his uncle was shot and killed by his own father-in-law.

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Oh my gosh.

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Yeah.

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They also say that mental disorders or mental illness can also be, it's a trait that you can pass down.

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Yeah.

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Especially throughout a family.

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Yeah.

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So clearly the family dynamic here is like, there are probably some issues going on that not a lot of people are taken care of.

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Of course.

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And we've talked about this off camera or off mic about how you can be predisposed to genetic mental illnesses without even, for something that happened in generations before you that you have zero control over.

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Right.

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And something like an environmental trauma can actually cause that to present itself.

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So just a quick note about the dad, because we were talking about Danny, he was actually questioned like way later on during the trial about Andre's childhood growing up.

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So by all accounts, like I said, the dad wasn't around much, but in court when he was questioned, he was adamant that he was quote in that house all the time.

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Ew.

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Yeah.

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So he also included the fact that Rochelle would leave for three months at a time frequently.

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He was trying to, I guess, insert like, oh look how much of a great daddy and we had such a great relationship.

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Like he would say like, oh, Andre was the baby.

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We called them like sweet toonie, like tuna.

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And you know, oh, he was so sweet.

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You know, that's why he had that nickname kind of like, I guess like pleading his case about how he was like this great, like,

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involved dad.

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But he just wasn't there.

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Yeah.

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So according to Danny in 1986, Rochelle came back for good.

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And then the two of them separated when he quote willingly left.

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So I willingly left.

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So he was saying that she was convinced my will.

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Right.

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He was saying that she was leaving for months at a time.

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And then all of a sudden she's back and he's like, oh, she's back for good.

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Bye.

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Like, how do you know she's back for good?

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Oh, now that she was frequently leaving.

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Now that there's at least one parent.

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It's impossible to have two, right?

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You're only allowed one at a time.

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Now when he left, he left for Denison, Denison, Texas.

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So that's 75 miles north of Dallas.

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So just a little bit farther north.

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He wasn't too far away.

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Yeah.

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But he didn't come back.

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So we certainly didn't come back.

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Yeah.

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And like I said, Andre was about three years old at this time.

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So when asked why he left, Danny said that he just couldn't stand to be in the house with Rochelle at the same time.

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So get an apartment down the street.

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Why you got to move away?

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Right.

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And have like a civil separation where you can have like joint custody or something.

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Joint custody.

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Yeah.

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Both being exposed to the kids.

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Right.

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So he said that he knew that when she had come back for good, he had decided it best for him to leave them with their mom for the majority of the time.

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But she's not there all the time.

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So how is that best for the kids?

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I don't.

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If he's such a phenomenal dad, why isn't the kids being with him the best thing?

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Well, so get this.

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He also mentions that in the years following, the boys moved back and forth from Denison to Sherman occasionally.

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Like they would go up and visit their dad. I guess they took a bus or something and stay with him for like a certain amount of time.

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They would actually go to school half time in both places.

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What?

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Right?

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It's like a terrible time.

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And this is in the 80s.

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Yes.

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That's like, come on.

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Yeah.

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So he said that they would.

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This isn't the 1940s or 50s where it's like an obligation.

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Right.

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Just get over it.

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If you really think that like what's best for your child is for the children to be with the mom, why make them shuttle back and forth?

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Well, that's the thing.

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I don't think he made them do anything.

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I think that they took it upon themselves to go because it was such a shitty home life with their mom.

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So the fact that he up and left these boys knowing that they were going to have a shitty household with their mom and he didn't give a fuck, you know, like.

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So they went to go escape or like they missed their dad.

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Yes.

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He wasn't like picking them up and bringing them back and forth.

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They did say, yeah, maybe a bus or something like that.

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So he said that they would ride bikes, play in the creeks.

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He said that sometimes they would even skip school to go to the creek.

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So they pretty much spent half the time with him and half their time with their mom.

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Yeah.

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Well, another thing that dad had mentioned during the trial about Andre, he said that this is actually kind of cute.

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Again, pleading his case about how much he has a great relationship with their BFF.

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He said they used to call him mad scientist because he was always making stuff.

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Aw.

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He was really interested in engineering, like he would actually like take like toy cars apart or whatever and like put them back together.

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Like things like that.

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Like really cool little hobbies, right?

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Wicked smart kid.

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Wicked smart.

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Another part of the trial later on that was mentioned, the prosecutor actually asked Danny if he thought Andre was quote the R word.

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He didn't say it like that, but I don't want to say it.

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And Danny said no.

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He had a mental deficiency.

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Yeah.

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He said he seemed, he was very adamant about this response and he said that no, like he was a very bright child, you know, there's no evidence of that.

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Yeah.

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And lastly, Danny also mentioned while being questioned that he never had to spank Andre.

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I thought this was interesting to add because physical abuse as a child, no matter how small, is can cause a lot of trauma growing up.

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Yeah.

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And a lot of your psyche kind of to become skewed.

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Of course.

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Then that's what you think that people that love you do to you, like or when you love someone, that's what you do to someone else.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, there is evidence that suggests that kids that are abused or even like emotionally degraded can grow up thinking that violence is a way of life like that.

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And then they in turn, you know, bring that into their, you know, next relationship.

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Yeah, those young babies become adults.

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So yeah.

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So I thought it was important to mention that according to Danny, this did not happen in Andre's childhood.

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That he was never spanked or anything.

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He was never spanked.

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Yeah, he didn't, they didn't have any violence or, you know, abuse, physical abuse.

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Okay, Danny.

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Even though there was definitely a neglect that's abuse in and itself.

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So I know that was definitely neglect.

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I think that my facial and body expression when I said that was funnier than what I actually said.

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You look like you were leaning up against a fence post.

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Hey, you want a cigarette?

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One for you.

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They're good for you.

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Yeah, like you have rolled cuffs on your jeans.

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Sevely abused.

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Yeah, you're neglected.

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Sevely abused.

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I love that.

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Shout out, Boston.

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And now on the mother's side, like I said, the house was in very rough shape.

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They were being raised in part time.

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Like I told you, they were going back and forth.

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The house had no running water, no heat, no electricity.

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At his mom's?

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Yes.

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But yeah, it was the better place to be.

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Best that they stayed in.

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You Danny, oh, scoundrel.

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Now, because this was the case, the boys would spend the majority of their downtime at the Harmony Baptist Church down the street rather than at home.

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They began to be noticed, of course, as frequent fliers in the church.

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And many people around town seem to know about their living situation.

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So they kind of just let it slide.

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Whatever.

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I mean, a church is there to help you, right?

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Yeah, of course.

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And I mean, of course, of course, of course, of course.

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I can see, especially from the perspective of the church, like, well, at least they're in here.

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They're not out there getting in trouble, you know, running the streets or whatever.

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I probably would have gone a little bit farther and, you know, maybe called like CPS or something.

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A parent.

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Yeah.

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One of the parents.

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Yeah.

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And we'll see that this becomes a theme this entire case, that there are so many people that had so many opportunities to help Andre.

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And they just turned a blind eye and they didn't.

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They didn't.

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And it caused him to go down this horrible path.

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Now, despite all these hardships that Andre is facing as a child, you know, with his father not living in the same city as mom being a transient drug user alcoholic,

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probably not paying much attention to them.

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Andre actually did really well in school for the first few years.

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His Sunday school teacher even said that he would raise his hand and answer questions before she could finish asking them.

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Oh, love that.

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I know, isn't that sweet?

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It's a Tracy flick.

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Yeah.

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So it was, by all accounts, seemed that he had like a very good intuition into context clues, like paying attention, really being on top of things when it came to him.

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Well, you know, that makes a little bit more sense too, because, and I have seen that in a few other just like true crime things that I've seen and stuff.

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Yeah.

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That some people when they have like a really bad home life, they throw themselves into academics or they throw themselves into sports.

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Yeah.

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Because that's where they, yeah, and it's like a way to spend all of their time.

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Yeah.

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They also don't have to go home.

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So yeah, they, for sure, it gives them something to focus on.

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So by all accounts, other family members of Andres would say that he enjoyed sketching future futuristic cars.

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He wanted to design cars one day and he would constantly talk about it.

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That's so cute.

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Isn't that so sweet?

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On top of all of this, he was even in the GT program at school.

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Wow.

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So in Texas, that's gifted and talented.

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I'm not sure if it's different other places or if it's called something else, but I just wanted to mention that.

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I was in the GT program in school, just to say that.

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In like elementary school, when it didn't matter.

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She was like, for one year.

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There's also a quote mentioned from his sister-in-law, Rachel Callis, that said, quote,

225
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,000
we definitely saw him doing great things, but he definitely didn't go down that road.

226
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,000
So that was like a quote later on.

227
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000
This makes me, this is already breaking my heart.

228
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,000
It's a really sad case.

229
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,000
It's really unfortunate.

230
00:12:55,000 --> 00:13:02,000
So around 1990 to 1991, Andre actually attended three different schools in two different states.

231
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,000
So in 1990, 1991, so he was like seven or eight years old.

232
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,000
Yeah.

233
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:11,000
And so I wasn't able to find the other state of my research, but I'm assuming it's Oklahoma, just because it's like right there.

234
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,000
Yeah.

235
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,000
But it was pretty clear that he attended one school in Sherman, Texas, where Rochelle lived, one in Denison, Texas, where his dad lived.

236
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,000
And I'm not sure about the third one.

237
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,000
Yeah.

238
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:29,000
Either way, three different schools in two different states within a year, like that can definitely take a toll on your social, you know, personality.

239
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,000
Right.

240
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,000
Just your psyche.

241
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000
Yeah, because you don't get a chance to connect with anybody.

242
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000
Yeah, exactly.

243
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,000
So he definitely had it had it rough socially during those years.

244
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000
Pears are doing a great job.

245
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,000
Right.

246
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,000
Yeah.

247
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
A plus.

248
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,000
So we're going to fast forward to when Andre was about 10 years old.

249
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000
This is where it's most noted that his behavior started to change significantly.

250
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:53,000
So according to some of his classmates, he told them that he heard quote, angels and demons arguing in his head.

251
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,000
So that sounds like schizophrenia spectrum to me.

252
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,000
Yeah, especially at 10.

253
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,000
Yes.

254
00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,000
And 10 is a very early age to start showing signs of schizophrenia.

255
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:05,000
Well, is it though, because I thought that schizophrenia was anywhere from like eight to 12.

256
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,000
No, schizophrenia, because it doesn't appear at all in children, like babies.

257
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,000
Yeah, I don't think that.

258
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,000
And adolescents.

259
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000
I don't think that schizophrenia spectrum shows itself until you're late teens.

260
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,000
Oh, really?

261
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,000
If I'm not mistaken.

262
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,000
So he also claimed that he was Raiden.

263
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:24,000
This is a Mortal Kombat character that was based on the Japanese deity, Ragen.

264
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,000
And he was depicted as the God of Thunder who possesses control over lightning.

265
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,000
Oh, like Odin.

266
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,000
Yes, that's cool.

267
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,000
But like this alone is not a red flag, obviously.

268
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,000
Yeah.

269
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000
Because children have very magical minds.

270
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,000
Well, it's Mortal Kombat.

271
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,000
Yeah, I know.

272
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000
So the fact that he's Raiden's awesome.

273
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,000
Yeah.

274
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,000
And he thinks that this character is, he's this character.

275
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,000
That's not the issue.

276
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000
That's, you know, that's fine.

277
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,000
Yeah.

278
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,000
But the fact that he said that he's hearing the angels and demons, that's a little bit

279
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,000
abnormal for a children's imagination to kind of make up.

280
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,000
Especially if you're hearings, it's auditory.

281
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,000
And at 10, because usually like imaginary friends pop up.

282
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,000
I mean, you know, I have a son who's in his younger years.

283
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000
Yeah.

284
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000
His imaginary friends started popping up like probably three, four.

285
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,000
Yeah.

286
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,000
When they start realizing that there's other kids that are their age and they kind of

287
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000
want a sibling.

288
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000
It's usually around that age.

289
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:14,000
10, I feel like is pretty late to be saying that you have like, not that he's saying he

290
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,000
has imaginary friends.

291
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000
Yeah.

292
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,000
But an adult might perceive them to be imaginary friends, right?

293
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,000
So I feel like that's a little old.

294
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,000
Yeah.

295
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,000
And actually, this also points to schizophrenia spectrum to me because auditory delusions or

296
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,000
hallucinations is actually the most common symptom of schizophrenia.

297
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,000
Yeah, I believe that.

298
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,000
Yeah.

299
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,000
This is also the time in his childhood when he started smoking weed.

300
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,000
At 10?

301
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000
At 10 years old.

302
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,000
He started smoking weed, which is absolutely awful that he has access to it.

303
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,000
Let alone smoking it.

304
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,000
When he's smoking the devil's lettuce.

305
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:47,000
No wonder he's, what are you seeing angels and demons?

306
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,000
Your brain is so underdeveloped at that point that it can be really detrimental to the

307
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,000
development of your brain and your mental health.

308
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:58,000
Well, later on it was actually thought to be a way to try to control the voices in his

309
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000
head.

310
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,000
So they thought that he was trying to self medicate with the weed.

311
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,000
At the age of 11, he was actually arrested for the very first time.

312
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,000
For having weed?

313
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,000
No.

314
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000
Oh.

315
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,000
He was charged with criminal mischief for an apartment complex pool escapade, which

316
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000
sounds very dramatic.

317
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,000
Tell me about this scenario.

318
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:23,000
He was literally with some buddies and they broke into an apartment complex pool and got

319
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,000
like, the cops came, I guess, because they didn't live there.

320
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
They weren't allowed to be there.

321
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Then there's.

322
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,000
And they probably just ran away.

323
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000
And they were like, apartment complex pool escapade.

324
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000
An escapade.

325
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,500
Like it's this giant like machines bond.

326
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,000
Was that in the newsletter for the apartment complex?

327
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:38,000
Literally.

328
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,000
Like next door.

329
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:40,000
Oh, there was an escapade.

330
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,000
Like.

331
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,000
With an 11 year old.

332
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,000
And he's like, that's ridiculous.

333
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,000
That's silly.

334
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,560
So for this arrest, he was actually placed on probation at the age of 12 for being in

335
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,000
a pool when he wasn't supposed to.

336
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,000
Yeah.

337
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,280
Well, they're according to the community, it seems like these are troubled kids because

338
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,000
their mom and their home life isn't very good and they're just breaking in their things.

339
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,440
Well, they're also smoking weed at 11 years old, 10 or 11 years old.

340
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,000
But at the same time, like they're just kids.

341
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,000
So what now this kid has a record at age 11 because he was breaking, pretty much breaking

342
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,000
and entering.

343
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,000
Is that what they're trying to say?

344
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000
Breaking and entering into a pool, maybe after hours or something.

345
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,440
I don't know, maybe just in general, not even after hours.

346
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:23,500
So this case plan for his probation was signed by him and his probation officer, Michael

347
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,680
Polk, but neither of his parents.

348
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:27,680
He's 12.

349
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:28,680
What?

350
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,760
So you'll see why in a second.

351
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,000
Because they're shitty fucking people.

352
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,000
I know why you told me.

353
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,480
So this case plan required him to obey curfew and report to the courthouse twice a week.

354
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:43,480
How was he going to get there?

355
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,480
12 years old.

356
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,480
How was he?

357
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,120
I mean, he's going to have to take a bus or something or walk.

358
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:51,480
So the fact that this wasn't signed by either of his parents is of course just as bizarre

359
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,360
to you as it is to me because he was a minor.

360
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:55,360
Not even that.

361
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:56,600
They're expecting him to show up at the courthouse.

362
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:57,600
What the hell?

363
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,960
His parents either don't know about this or they don't care.

364
00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:01,960
So I was supposed to make it there.

365
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,400
So after looking into this further, I actually found out that his mother wanted absolutely

366
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:12,200
nothing to do with him once he was on probation and frequently told him that she wishes she

367
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,440
had aborted him when he was a fetus.

368
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:20,840
So like, your son gets in trouble for doing something that you are allowing and not saying

369
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:25,720
they're bad at all for kids because you fucking do it and then you tell him something like

370
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:26,800
that.

371
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,920
That is like the most heartbreaking thing.

372
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,040
Danny clearly knew what was best for him.

373
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:32,640
Yeah, I mean obviously it was-

374
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:34,960
Wherever you're at Danny, fuck you.

375
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:35,960
Literally.

376
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,440
Now because of this reason, he always met his probation officer alone and neither of

377
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:44,400
his parents were around for it, which I'm not in any way indicating that this probation

378
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,720
officer was crooked at all, but that's a liability in itself.

379
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,720
He could be.

380
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:50,720
Exactly, he could be.

381
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,720
He could be at 12 at this time, you know?

382
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,720
Like, that's scary.

383
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,560
Like, nothing ever happened that I saw, but that, you know, it could have potentially

384
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,440
been a very bad situation for him.

385
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:05,160
Like these, I mean, I know that there's probably things in place now that like a child that's

386
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,760
in that type of a situation has an advocate that likely go with them to these things or

387
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,000
pick them up or chauffeur them or whatever.

388
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,000
There has to be.

389
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Yeah.

390
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,240
I mean, especially, I mean, this was in the 90s, but yeah, especially now you would think.

391
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:20,760
So by the age of 13, he actually made his first suicide attempt by slitting his wrists.

392
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,560
It seems like a very intense way to try to commit suicide at the age of 13.

393
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:25,560
At 13.

394
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,560
Yeah.

395
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,080
So I can only imagine, and this is me speculating, maybe what he had seen at school or with his

396
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,080
mom or something, you know?

397
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:32,080
Yeah.

398
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,080
Like that sounds like really intense.

399
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,200
He ended up being okay and just received some stitches for his wounds, but stitches, I

400
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,120
mean, that's a, you know, you have to have a pretty traumatic wound to get stitches.

401
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,280
Clearly significant enough to have to go to the hospital.

402
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,720
So it's unknown whether or not his parents knew about this, but I'm sure they did because

403
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,840
he was injured and they had to call him or not because they didn't tell him about the

404
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,280
probation thing or they didn't care.

405
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,280
Yeah.

406
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,800
No, they probably, he probably had to walk to the hospital.

407
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:55,800
Yeah.

408
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,600
So at age 15, he had a series of arrests building up his record.

409
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,680
These arrests included one for stealing a car and while he was in Juvie for this, he

410
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,360
was placed on suicide watch for a while, but he never received any ongoing mental health

411
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,680
treatment following his release, you know, just like what you do.

412
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,440
So at age 16, he's actually expelled from Sherman ISD's alternative education program

413
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,200
and placed in the alternative learning academy.

414
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:24,760
I couldn't really find the difference in these two, but maybe the learning academy is for

415
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,720
people with low attendance or maybe it's a more focused on behavioral rather than like

416
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,720
education.

417
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,600
So alternative school is basically like, like if you were to get your education while

418
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:34,880
also being in Juvie.

419
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:35,880
Okay.

420
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,000
So it's not like, but it's not locked down like a jail.

421
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,480
You can come and go like, and you know, honestly, some kids just choose not to show up, but

422
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:48,840
it's pretty much like a more condensed, it's like, go, yeah, you ever been to ISS?

423
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:49,840
Nope.

424
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,480
Did you ever go to after school detention or Saturday detention?

425
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:54,960
Yeah, I went to after school detention.

426
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:55,960
Okay.

427
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,920
But it was just like, do your homework and leave.

428
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,440
I didn't do that, but like a school.

429
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,760
So it's, yeah, it's like concentrated, like you're more eyeballs and you know, but you

430
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,680
do get more one-on-one time with teachers.

431
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,360
So it can be helpful for kids that are like in trouble and they can't go to regular school

432
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,640
because the regular school doesn't want you anymore because it costs you much of a fuss

433
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,600
and you go to alternative school.

434
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,200
He's having a lot of arrests at this point and you know, acts of defiance and stuff.

435
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,000
Well, I'm surprised that he was 16.

436
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,400
They made it all the way to 16 in school, honestly.

437
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,400
Yeah.

438
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,240
Now during this time, another suicide attempt is made by this time by scratching the skin

439
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,080
off of his wrist with his nails out.

440
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,320
This second suicide attempt does not work and he is bandaged up and sent on his way.

441
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,080
Again, no follow-up for the mental health.

442
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,560
So this is where he starts to take a turn for the worse.

443
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,680
He already has a track record of course of not great, you know, arrest record and stuff,

444
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:55,960
petty things like, well, seemingly small, acts of-

445
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,200
Similar to what happens later.

446
00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,200
Yes.

447
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,600
At 16 still, Andre begins dating a woman named Laura Boren.

448
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,760
Laura is a young white woman, which is important to mention because Andre is a young black

449
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:08,760
man.

450
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,400
Laura's about 15 at this time and after dating, she finds out that she's pregnant.

451
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,960
So after finding out that Laura's pregnant, Andre dropped out of school to work several

452
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:16,880
jobs in order to support her and the baby.

453
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,960
So dropping into school, not the greatest move, but also he's doing it, I guess for

454
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:20,960
the right reasons to work.

455
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,800
Yeah, he's doing the right thing.

456
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,280
On August in 1999, Laura gave birth to their child, Andre Thomas Jr.

457
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:28,280
Oh, a baby.

458
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:33,440
And on March 17th, 2001, on Andre's 18th birthday, the two got married.

459
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,960
Unfortunately, their marriage does not work out and they ultimately separated only four

460
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,960
months later.

461
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:38,960
Oh my gosh.

462
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:39,960
I know, very short.

463
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,000
After the marriage broke up, Andre experienced much more intense delusions and suicidal thoughts.

464
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,560
Now at this point, you know, he had already attempted suicide twice with seemingly no

465
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,280
concern from his parents and absolutely no mental health console.

466
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,280
Right.

467
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,400
He had no help or even self-help at this point.

468
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,320
He's not doing anything.

469
00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,040
During this time, he became obsessed over apocalyptic concepts in the book of a relation and he

470
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,640
had trouble keeping a job because of it.

471
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,200
So I mentioned like it's okay to have piqued interest in anything, but when it starts to

472
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,520
affect your daily life, your job, your finances and your relationships, that's when it becomes

473
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,600
an obsession and a problem.

474
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,760
This actually got so bad that he began to believe that his ex-wife, Laura, was Jezebel.

475
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,520
If you don't know who Jezebel is, if you're not a Christian or you don't follow the Bible,

476
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,640
Jezebel was the daughter of Ithbal, who was the king of Cytoh and the wife of Ahab, king

477
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,840
of Israel.

478
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:31,040
It's said that in the Bible, she promoted the worship of false gods, harassed and killed

479
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,080
God's prophets and arranged for an innocent man to be falsely charged and executed.

480
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,240
So not a good lady.

481
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:37,240
Yeah.

482
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,440
That wasn't a compliment.

483
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,400
So in Andre's mind, Jezebel, a terrible person, needs to be punished.

484
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,360
On top of thinking that she's Jezebel, he's now thinking and believing that his baby son

485
00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:49,360
is the Antichrist.

486
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:51,320
So you can see where this is going.

487
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,000
I just, I know.

488
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,080
Back to when you said clearly the parents aren't taking care of any of this or whatever, but

489
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,800
what about school officials?

490
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:00,800
What about teachers?

491
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,360
They're mandated reporters.

492
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:05,400
It just gets worse with the lack of help for him.

493
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:06,400
Seriously.

494
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,960
It's absolutely baffling to me how many opportunities this guy had to get help and nobody fucking

495
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:11,960
cared.

496
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:17,240
That's why I wanted to do this one for the very first one, to really push in the fact

497
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,760
that this is a mental health advocacy podcast that touches on true crime.

498
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,360
And don't get me wrong, I am not by any way saying that he doesn't deserve to be punished

499
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:26,360
for his actions.

500
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:31,640
However, there's a lot of opportunity for him to not have even gone down this path.

501
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,760
So fast forward to January 2002, Andre got arrested again on an assault charge.

502
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:37,760
Sidebar, sorry.

503
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,040
You said that it was important that we know that she's white and he's black.

504
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,040
Why?

505
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,040
It'll come up later.

506
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:44,040
Oh, okay, okay.

507
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,040
Thank you.

508
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,040
I just know we're going to leave this up at all.

509
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,040
I will.

510
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,040
It's important to know.

511
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,040
Anyways.

512
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,360
Yeah, it's important.

513
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,880
So he reported that he drinks two 40 ounce beers each day and he has a history of suicide

514
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:55,880
attempts.

515
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:56,880
So he's doing the right thing.

516
00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,040
He's telling them, hey, I am self-medicating and I am suicidal.

517
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:06,800
The charge was actually for stabbing one of his brothers over an altercation over music.

518
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,880
So the background story of this real quick is that his brother was playing this loud music.

519
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,080
I guess they lived together.

520
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:13,800
He was staying with him or something.

521
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,560
And Andre believed that the loud music was actually sending evil spirit through the walls

522
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,720
and he didn't like that.

523
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:20,720
So he told the brother.

524
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,240
I'll say I wouldn't like that.

525
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,640
So he told the brother to turn the music off and when he didn't, he stabbed him and

526
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,200
was arrested and placed on suicide watch, but it was not indicted.

527
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,440
So how, I mean, not that you know, but how bad was the stabbing?

528
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:35,440
Was it just like once?

529
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:36,440
He was fine.

530
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:37,440
Yeah.

531
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,760
So it was just like, it wasn't enough to mention, you know, it was just like, turn the music

532
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,760
up.

533
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:41,760
Turn the music down.

534
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Lovely.

535
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,880
It's a little funny.

536
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,800
During this time of his arrest, he was noted as saying things along the lines of that he

537
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:55,040
was quote reliving the same day over and over and continued to speak of the angels and demons

538
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,040
arguing in his head.

539
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,320
So this is coming up again this many years later.

540
00:25:58,320 --> 00:25:59,560
He's like 20 at this time.

541
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,000
You probably have no perception of time.

542
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,000
Yeah.

543
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,240
Like if you feel like you're reliving the same day or exactly that's what I was going

544
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,240
to say.

545
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:09,240
It's like Groundhog Day.

546
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,240
But like if you feel like they're constantly talking to you, do you ever sleep?

547
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:13,960
Do you ever have a moment's rest?

548
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,360
Your brain is constantly working.

549
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,640
I mean, it has to be disorienting.

550
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,080
That's like a really like, I can't even imagine.

551
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,080
Me neither.

552
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:27,600
Like I feel like I have some tendencies towards like having anxiety and what if, and I know

553
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,960
that feeling about when my brain just won't shut off.

554
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:35,000
And I think most people like in that especially because there's memes about it.

555
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,800
It's got to be more than just me that experiences this or just you like when you're laying in

556
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,760
bed and those thoughts are just going.

557
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,480
And all of a sudden it's 5 AM and you're like, but could you imagine if that was your life

558
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,480
every day all the time?

559
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,120
No, people that you would have no idea what time it is.

560
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:52,200
People that are living with schizophrenia and you know, are living full lives of schizophrenia

561
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,680
I think are truly remarkable.

562
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:01,640
Like that is such an intense, you know, mental disorder to come like to like get a hold of

563
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:09,240
and go get through and properly diagnose it too because there's got to be so many other

564
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,480
things that are called like when you, what's that called when you have like something and

565
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,800
then there's all those underlying things.

566
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:17,800
Comorbidity.

567
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:18,800
Yes.

568
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:19,800
Comorbidity.

569
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,560
So the comorbidity might be sending off all of these other symptoms that you just treat

570
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,960
little by little and you don't treat the schizophrenia.

571
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:27,960
Yeah, exactly.

572
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,520
So you're seeing all these other forward presenting symptoms rather than like that.

573
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,520
Yeah, that makes sense.

574
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,080
So like he's obsessed with religion.

575
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,520
It's not that it comes from this, like nobody thinks it comes from the schizophrenia.

576
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,520
Yeah.

577
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,720
Everybody just thinks that he's like a nut, sorry, but like a nut job.

578
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,760
A nut job, I mean, you know, which I don't want to use terms like that, but you know,

579
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,640
people might just be like, okay, that guy's religiously weird.

580
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,280
Like he's too obsessed with religion.

581
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,280
Yeah.

582
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,720
They not understand that he has a disorder.

583
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:56,720
Yeah.

584
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,240
So thankfully for a little while after this, he was able to control his urges and thoughts

585
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,120
and everything was good, but I wouldn't say very good.

586
00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:05,600
He was just nonviolent for a few years.

587
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,840
In March 2004, this is three years after the divorce, after the divorce and his son is now

588
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,520
three years old, a friend of Andre's noticed that he was acting strange and took him to

589
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,280
a mental health clinic.

590
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:17,280
What a fucking guy.

591
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,000
That guy's like the truest of the true boy right now.

592
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,240
I don't know if it was a guy or a girl, but what a person.

593
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,960
That person has done more in his life than anyone else up until this point.

594
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:29,960
Seriously.

595
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,880
Now, of course, his mental health status had been very rocky and obvious since he was

596
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,240
10, he's now 21.

597
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,480
So this has been 11 years later that somebody's actually trying to help him get his mental

598
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,480
health under control.

599
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:40,480
Awesome.

600
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,480
Yay.

601
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:42,480
Go on you.

602
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:47,520
They took him to a mental health clinic where Andre literally said to the people in the

603
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,480
mental health clinic that he was going to jump in front of a bus and kill himself if

604
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,960
he could not speak to somebody.

605
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,200
So right this way.

606
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:01,320
He also says, quote, life is too much for me and I want to die right now.

607
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,480
What would you say if that was someone that came into your clinic?

608
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,760
I'd probably give them an extended stay insurance or rent free.

609
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,400
You immediately took him back.

610
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,400
Yeah.

611
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:14,400
Okay.

612
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,360
Well, these people did the quite opposite and said, oh, you need to go to the emergency

613
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,360
room.

614
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:19,360
They turned him away?

615
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,360
Yeah.

616
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,440
They said, oh, we can't help you here.

617
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:23,440
You need to go to the ER.

618
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,320
Like if you're suicidal, you need to go to the ER.

619
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,160
You're a fucking mental health.

620
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,160
Yeah.

621
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,160
What is that?

622
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:30,160
Like what?

623
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,360
You're telling me that nobody else in that mental health clinic wants to kill themselves.

624
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:34,360
Seriously.

625
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,360
Seriously.

626
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,360
Oh, don't worry.

627
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,320
They took a bit more action, however, and they had a judge prepare an emergency detention

628
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,560
order, which it can be helpful in order to detain somebody needed to be on suit as I'd

629
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,760
watch against their will.

630
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:46,760
Yeah.

631
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,640
However, it can take up to 12 hours to complete.

632
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,360
So what?

633
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,080
This guy is immediately in imminent danger of hurting himself.

634
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,960
And maybe that's why they said go to the emergency room is so that they could.

635
00:29:58,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Okay.

636
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:04,000
And if, but what, pump them full of drugs because that's typically calming down.

637
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,000
Yeah.

638
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,640
Until he's not feeling like shit anymore and then send him on his way.

639
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,080
But even if they were like, hey, go to the emergency room.

640
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,720
Don't you think they would have like arranged for him to get there?

641
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,720
Yeah.

642
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:15,720
So they're saying like, go on.

643
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:16,720
Like go on.

644
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:17,720
Figure it out.

645
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:18,720
Exactly.

646
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:19,720
Okay.

647
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:20,720
Go on to the next place.

648
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:21,720
Shame on those fucking people.

649
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:22,720
For sure.

650
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,720
So what do you think happens next?

651
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:24,720
Oh yeah.

652
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:25,720
He doesn't go to the fucking emergency room.

653
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:26,720
Yeah.

654
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:27,720
He just leaves.

655
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,200
And it's now a pattern of behavior where he's asking for help and nobody's willing to help

656
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,200
him.

657
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:33,200
Seriously.

658
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,200
So he just accepts that now.

659
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,200
So he doesn't go to the ER.

660
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,200
Shocker.

661
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,960
Three weeks later, he attempts suicide yet again, this time by stabbing himself in the

662
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,120
chest.

663
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,440
It was unsuccessful and he went to Texoma Medical Center.

664
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,640
When asked what happened, he said that he was trying to quote crossover into heaven.

665
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,120
That is a red flag from mental illness right there.

666
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,600
And the physicians at the ER should at least have a little bit of background knowledge

667
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,440
of mental health and how it presents itself as a mental illness.

668
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:03,760
I mean, how it presents itself.

669
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,640
Like that should have been a tall tall sign.

670
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:06,760
Like, okay, this guy is...

671
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:13,200
Well, don't people like when they go to the hospital for suicide attempts, don't they

672
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,640
get a psych eval before they leave?

673
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:16,640
Yeah.

674
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,160
So like I'm getting there.

675
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,880
This is infuriating.

676
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,200
So the wound was determined to not be life threatening, but the ER physician arranged

677
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,120
for psychiatric commitment either way.

678
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,240
Unfortunately, while these arrangements were being made, Andre left the ER.

679
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:34,480
How?

680
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,440
Because no one was watching him even though they were waiting for a psychiatric fucking

681
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,440
consult.

682
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:41,440
Nope.

683
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,200
They just left him in the room by himself with probably sharp objects.

684
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,240
I just, I think of those like typical like, uh, movie scenes where somebody's trying to

685
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,600
sneak out of a hot, they're like in a hospital gown.

686
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,600
Yes.

687
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,600
That was likely him.

688
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,600
Literally.

689
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,160
So also, what about that detention order, the emergency detention order?

690
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,160
It's been three weeks.

691
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,160
Don't they have that on file?

692
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,160
It's been three weeks.

693
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,160
It's been three weeks.

694
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,160
They should have that on file.

695
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,040
And in that case, they shouldn't have allowed him to leave at that point.

696
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:09,040
It's emergency detention.

697
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:10,040
They should have known.

698
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,160
He doesn't have free will to leave.

699
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,760
And it's not like an A, they can do an AMA.

700
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,400
Like he is literally detained for at least 72 hours.

701
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,480
No one communicated with each other.

702
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,480
No one cares.

703
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:21,480
No one cares.

704
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:22,480
That's awful.

705
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:23,480
That is so awful.

706
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,000
Oh, so shame on you.

707
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:26,000
Right.

708
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,720
So after the physician noticed that Andre was gone, they notified the, uh, the Denison

709
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,720
Police Department.

710
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:32,720
Good, right?

711
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,360
Uh, this is where his dad was living.

712
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,880
So not where he was in Sherman, but where his dad was living, I guess, because they

713
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,640
looked up his address on file or whatever, and that's where it was.

714
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,240
So maybe he was like, maybe he's going back to see his dad.

715
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:43,480
Like, let me call them and let them know.

716
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:48,360
When the physician contacted the police, they said, I believe at this point that Andre

717
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,800
may be dangerous, dangerous to himself and or society.

718
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,000
Police never had any contact with them after that.

719
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,000
They didn't even follow up.

720
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,000
They didn't even try to get a hold of Andre.

721
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,000
What?

722
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Literally.

723
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,000
They go to the dad's house at all?

724
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,000
No.

725
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,000
Not that I saw.

726
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,000
Not that they noted.

727
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Oh my God.

728
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,640
Like, do you see how many fucking opportunities these people have to stop what's about to

729
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:08,640
happen from happening?

730
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:11,080
Now this is March 27th, 2004.

731
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,040
This is two days after leaving the hospital against medical advice and while they were

732
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,040
trying to get him set up.

733
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:17,960
Andre, this is where I'm going to detail the crime.

734
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:18,960
So content warning.

735
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,880
Andre proceeded to go to Laura's apartment, his ex-wife, where she was living with her

736
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,240
new 13 month old daughter that she had had with her current relationship and her and

737
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,760
Andre's four year old son they shared was also there, Andre Jr.

738
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,320
Andre went into the apartment, kicked in the door and proceeded to stab Laura to death.

739
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,840
Now it was mentioned that he had three knives and I'll explain why.

740
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,320
After fatally wounding Laura, he actually tried to remove her heart with the knife,

741
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,240
but he accidentally removed a piece of her lung instead because he was didn't know what

742
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:48,240
it means.

743
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,240
Well, I mean, yeah.

744
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,760
So after this, he proceeded to go to the bedroom, which was shared by his four year old son

745
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,560
and the 13 month old daughter, proceeded to do the same thing to both of them.

746
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,800
He actually successfully removed both of their hearts.

747
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:05,120
And I didn't really find anything about why he wanted to remove their hearts, but sources

748
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,040
did say that because he thought his ex-wife was Jezebel and his son was the Antichrist,

749
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,040
that maybe he was trying to like make sure that they were like actually gone.

750
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:19,120
Or they're not trophies, but that they made sure that that part of them wasn't taken.

751
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,120
I don't know.

752
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:21,120
Yeah.

753
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:22,960
He also, I mentioned that he had brought three knives into the house.

754
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,480
He mentioned that he used a different knife on each victim because he didn't want their

755
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,560
blood to mix because that can in turn-

756
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,080
Was he Jehovah's Witness?

757
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,080
No.

758
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,080
No, no.

759
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,920
He thought that the blood contained like demon spirits and if he allowed the blood to mix,

760
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,080
the demon could like travel from the bodies and then like live.

761
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,080
Okay.

762
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,080
You know, does that make sense?

763
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,080
Not really, but you see everything.

764
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,080
No, yeah.

765
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,080
Yeah.

766
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,800
So this next part, I saw two different accounts from two different sources, so I'm going

767
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,800
to say them both.

768
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,120
After he had fatally stabbed all three of the victims, the first account said that he went

769
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,240
into the living room where his ex-wife was.

770
00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:57,720
He laid down on the floor and he stabbed himself in the chest three times, expecting

771
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,240
to die from his wounds.

772
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:04,040
It then said that after he realized that he wasn't going to die, he stood up, put the

773
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,600
organs in his pockets and then walked home.

774
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:07,600
That was the first source.

775
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:08,600
Okay.

776
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,520
And then he said after he fatally stabbed everybody, he also put the organs in his

777
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,720
pockets, but then he went home and stabbed himself in the chest there.

778
00:35:15,720 --> 00:35:16,720
Oh, okay.

779
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:17,720
So I'm not sure which one.

780
00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:21,280
I think the second one was a little bit more, it made a little bit more sense to me because

781
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:22,780
of what happens next.

782
00:35:22,780 --> 00:35:26,320
So upon arriving at home, again, it doesn't say before after, I'm sure it was before he

783
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,920
stabbed himself, he placed the organs in a bag and just threw them in the trash.

784
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,400
He immediately called his ex-wife's parents.

785
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,400
Right.

786
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:35,400
After he got, oh.

787
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:36,400
Before or after he stabbed himself?

788
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,640
I'm assuming this is before just because if you stab yourself, you're probably not ready

789
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:41,640
to make a phone call.

790
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:42,640
Right.

791
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,480
But the other account was that he stabbed himself, he tried to take a nap and he just

792
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:46,920
woke up and then walked home.

793
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:47,920
That's true.

794
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:48,920
Bad the wounds were.

795
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:49,920
Yeah.

796
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:50,920
They weren't life-threatening.

797
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:51,920
Yeah.

798
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,920
Well, they were pretty bad.

799
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:54,920
Okay.

800
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,800
Now they didn't answer the phone, but he did leave a voicemail for them, which is haunting.

801
00:35:58,800 --> 00:35:59,800
That's awful.

802
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:05,880
So the voicemail says the following, quote, Sherry, this is Andre.

803
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,320
I need y'all's help.

804
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,960
Something bad is happening to me and it keeps happening and I don't know what's going on.

805
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:11,960
I need some help.

806
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,560
I think I'm in hell and I need help.

807
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,040
Somebody needs to come help me.

808
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,400
I need help bad.

809
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:18,400
I'm desperate.

810
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:19,880
I'm afraid to go to sleep.

811
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,120
So when you get this message, come out to the house, please.

812
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,120
Hello?

813
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,120
That's the voicemail.

814
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,120
Oh my gosh.

815
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,840
Like imagine getting that because it doesn't say anything that happened.

816
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:29,840
It's just how.

817
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:30,840
You get that voicemail and you're like, what's going on?

818
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:32,720
Do you think he was trying to lure them?

819
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:33,880
No, I don't think so at all.

820
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,160
I think that he really realized that he messed up and he was terrified and he didn't know

821
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:38,160
what to do.

822
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,440
He probably doesn't even know how bad it was.

823
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:41,440
Exactly.

824
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,320
So shortly after this, Andre walked to the police department in Sherman, Texas and turned

825
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,400
himself in.

826
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,280
He entered the department at approximately 9.30 a.m. where standing in the lobby, he

827
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,320
told dispatcher Cindy Card that he had just killed his wife and wanted to turn himself

828
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:55,320
in.

829
00:36:55,320 --> 00:37:00,480
A nearby officer rushed to the lobby and kind of like patted him down for weapons.

830
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:05,440
And when the police arrived, most of them, and he was talking to them, he told them that

831
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:09,760
he, quote, thought God wanted to kill them and, quote, will I be forgiven?

832
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:10,760
That's what he said.

833
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:11,760
I know.

834
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,760
Like really terrible.

835
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,040
That's so sad.

836
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,840
He was noted as being calm and lethargic as he told the officer that he had also stabbed

837
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:20,920
himself in the chest.

838
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,920
So this is really like showing the lack of understanding and empathy that he doesn't

839
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:25,920
understand.

840
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:26,920
He's completely disconnected.

841
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:27,920
He doesn't get it.

842
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:28,920
Yeah.

843
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,880
He's playing that he killed each victim with separate knives because, like I said earlier,

844
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:33,440
he told them about the demons.

845
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,440
He didn't want to mix their blood.

846
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,440
He was also quoted as saying, quote, if the victim's blood were allowed to mix, the demon

847
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,640
may survive.

848
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,800
He was, of course, immediately taken into custody and sent to the hospital to take care

849
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:44,800
of the wounds.

850
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:45,800
Oh, no shit.

851
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:46,800
Yeah.

852
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,800
He went to the hospital and underwent chest surgery at this point.

853
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:49,800
Yeah.

854
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,800
Did he escape after that again?

855
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:51,800
Right.

856
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:52,800
They let him leave.

857
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:53,920
They just don't watch him.

858
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,560
So this is five days after the murders.

859
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,280
He's in jail awaiting trial.

860
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:58,280
Content warning.

861
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:03,120
So the jury at this point took it upon himself to remove his right eyeball with his bare

862
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,120
hands.

863
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,120
What?

864
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,560
Like he removed his own right eyeball with his bare hands.

865
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,600
And like, in...

866
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,640
Are you okay?

867
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,760
Like in jail awaiting trial?

868
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,560
He ripped out his own eye.

869
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,720
Yes.

870
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:24,600
After doing so, he actually asked for Laura, showing that he clearly had no idea that

871
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,760
she was gone.

872
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:32,400
So when asked about what the reasoning was behind him removing his eyeball, he...

873
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,480
One source said that he was reading the Bible wall in jail and he came across Matthew 5

874
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,840
verse 29, which says, quote, if your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out.

875
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,640
Another source that I read said that after pulling his eye out, he quoted Mark 9 verse

876
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,720
14, which states, quote, and if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, it is better

877
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:53,800
to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.

878
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:54,800
So...

879
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:59,160
So he thought by doing that, he might save himself from going to hell, which he had already

880
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:00,880
said that he felt like he was in.

881
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,640
So it kind of...

882
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,120
Imagining a life that's worse than the one that you have, that's scary.

883
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,120
It's very sad.

884
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:12,400
I think that although it doesn't make sense, it makes sense.

885
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,720
You can understand where he's coming from.

886
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,320
The mind set of him.

887
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,960
If I was not scared, then I probably would too, right?

888
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,760
So two psychologists came after this and interviewed him to determine his competence to withstanding

889
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:25,760
trial.

890
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:26,760
Perfect.

891
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,520
Which actually, that's what I want to do for my career later in life.

892
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,320
I want to be able to do that.

893
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,600
They actually both agreed that he met the standards to be diagnosed with schizophrenia.

894
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:36,600
Bum, ba-ba-ba.

895
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,600
There we go.

896
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:38,600
There's his diagnosis.

897
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:39,600
They also declared him...

898
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,760
Yeah, I don't think it took them this long for him to be evaluated.

899
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,760
Yeah.

900
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,160
They also declared him incompetent to stand trial.

901
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,040
So due to this diagnosis, he was sent to North Texas State Hospital, and this is in

902
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,920
mid-June 2004.

903
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,400
This is a mental housing unit for prisoners, and he was finally sent to a place that could

904
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,120
potentially help get a handle on the diagnosis.

905
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:06,560
He spent 47 days in the hospital, and at this time, psychiatrist Joseph Black, you're gonna

906
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:13,040
not like this guy, wrote to the court that Andre had suffered from drug-induced psychosis,

907
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:18,000
adding that he was indeed competent, and he might attempt to exasperate his mental illness

908
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,000
by engaging in self-harm or other erratic behavior.

909
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,000
What?

910
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,120
But he's saying, no, this guy's not schizophrenic.

911
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,360
He's a drug user and an alcohol abuser.

912
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,080
That's what made him psychotic.

913
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,360
Not the mental illness that he quote-unquote has.

914
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,280
And then he was using physical harm against himself in order to perpetuate the idea that

915
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:37,920
he was insane.

916
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,920
Yes.

917
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:44,480
So because of this, Joseph Black, he had the previous diagnosis of schizophrenia and

918
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,960
unfit to stand trial completely thrown out the window.

919
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,400
So now they're gonna try him.

920
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,400
What?

921
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,520
Like, as being competent.

922
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:53,520
Yes.

923
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,480
So one psychiatrist comes in and he's like, no, those other guys don't know what the

924
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:57,480
hell they're talking about.

925
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,280
This is my diagnosis, or anti-diagnosis, I guess.

926
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:02,280
He's fine.

927
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,280
Let's try him.

928
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,400
And is this the guy that was from the house, the psychiatric house?

929
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,400
This guy is just random.

930
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:08,400
Okay.

931
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,400
He's probably for the prosecution.

932
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:11,400
Of course.

933
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:12,400
Of course.

934
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,400
That's awful.

935
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,240
Now during this trial, Andre had a defense attorney named RJ Haggood.

936
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:24,480
The defense attorney that he had was actually ill with pancreatitis during the trial, and

937
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,800
he later came out and said that he regretted not objecting to Joseph Black's statement

938
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,200
of Andre being fit to stand trial.

939
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,640
So he had pretty much admitted that he dropped the fucking ball, and if he had just been

940
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,960
like, no, like if he'd challenged Joseph Black, he could have maybe had a complete different

941
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:40,960
outcome for the trial.

942
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:41,960
This is awful.

943
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:42,960
This is an awful way.

944
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,640
This is really awful.

945
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,720
And this is just worth noting because I thought it was interesting.

946
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,880
I actually looked up the signs and symptoms of pancreatitis to see that if anything that

947
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,320
this guy was potentially experiencing during the trial could have affected his ability

948
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,640
to have a fair trial.

949
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:03,160
So pancreatitis symptoms include severe abdominal pain, upper back pain, rapid heartbeat, upset

950
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:09,280
stomach, favor, favor, favor.

951
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,280
Favor.

952
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,280
Sorry.

953
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,280
He's got the favor.

954
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:22,800
Fever, weight loss, nausea and vomiting, stuff.

955
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:30,840
Fever, weight loss, nausea and vomiting, tender belly, bleeding and dehydration.

956
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,360
So I'm not sure about you, but if I was experiencing one or more of these symptoms.

957
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,560
At least two of those, I'd be like, I'm not coming in all the way today.

958
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:37,960
I probably wouldn't be in the best seat of mind.

959
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,560
Like literally you could have postponed the trial seriously.

960
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:40,560
Well, not only that, but-

961
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:41,560
Or gotten a sub.

962
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:42,560
Yeah.

963
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,600
But any types of medications that he might have been on to kind of help with those symptoms,

964
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,320
like pain medication, back and alter the way that he's thinking.

965
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,720
And he did come out later and he was like, I fucked up.

966
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:53,200
Like I shouldn't have gone through.

967
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,680
I should have been more like mentally like there, you know, competent.

968
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,280
So that was in March 2004 when the crime happened.

969
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,800
This is now February 15th, 2005, when his trial begins.

970
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,800
He was only charged for the death of Laura's 13 month old daughter.

971
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:11,360
And I'm not exactly sure why he wasn't charged for Laura or Andre Jr.'s deaths.

972
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,160
It might have been something to do with like, they were trying to paint him as such a monster

973
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,120
because this 13 year old innocent baby, but even as the four year old-

974
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,120
13 month old.

975
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,920
13 month old innocent baby.

976
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,560
You know, like maybe, I don't know, or maybe they had like the most concrete evidence for

977
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,440
that murder rather than the others.

978
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,440
I'm not sure.

979
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,800
It didn't really explain exactly why.

980
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,800
Either way, he got charged with just that death.

981
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,800
Okay, this is where the full circle comes back to the fact that Laura was a white woman

982
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,080
and Andre was a black man.

983
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:50,640
During trial, Andre faced an all white jury because, I mentioned that, because during

984
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:56,200
this time, three of the jurors and one alternate that was there just in case, all indicated

985
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,720
that they were opposed to interracial couples marrying or having children.

986
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:02,640
Oh my God.

987
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,920
So I don't know why they let these jurors continue on with this trial.

988
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:12,320
They had racially insensitive, you know, judgments about interracial marriage and reproduction.

989
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:18,320
And one of the jurors actually indicated specifically, quote, I don't believe God intended for this.

990
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,040
We should stay with our bloodline.

991
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:21,040
Oh my God.

992
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:27,160
And they let these people be on the jury of a young black man.

993
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,160
That is...

994
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:29,160
Oh my God.

995
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,160
Isn't it supposed to be a jury of your peers?

996
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,160
Yeah.

997
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,240
That is not a jury of his peers.

998
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:39,320
But the thing is, is like, not a lot of people know this about jury selection.

999
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,360
The prosecution and the defense both have to agree on who's sitting in that jury.

1000
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:45,360
Yeah.

1001
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:46,360
So what the fuck?

1002
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,760
So the defense had to have known these things before.

1003
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:50,760
So what the hell?

1004
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,680
Again, RJ had to drop in the ball.

1005
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:54,680
Yeah.

1006
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,760
Now, Andre's sanity was clearly a topic of interest during the trial and his behavior

1007
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,040
during the trial was described as almost catatonic at times.

1008
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,120
What you and I know, and if you don't know what the word catatonic means, it involves

1009
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,080
a lack of movement awareness or communication.

1010
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,080
So he's pretty much like staring into space.

1011
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,320
And not only paying attention, doesn't really understand what's going on.

1012
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,040
And then also aligns with schizophrenia.

1013
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,040
Yep.

1014
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,040
Yeah.

1015
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,160
He was also reported as eating Skittles during the trial for quite some time, which I don't

1016
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,080
know why they mentioned that, but I guess it's kind of like, oh, and he can just sit

1017
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,520
here and eat a snack, you know, or whatever.

1018
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,080
So the jury is also jealous that he has a snack.

1019
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,080
He has candy, Damien.

1020
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,080
He has candy.

1021
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,080
He wears my candy.

1022
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,880
So, of course, his defense attorneys put forth an insanity defense because he has as long

1023
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:35,960
history of mental illness.

1024
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,520
And the other psychologist said that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, but then Joseph

1025
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,080
Black came in and got it removed.

1026
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,440
In response, the state said that Andre's mental illness was caused or worsened by drug

1027
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:48,440
use.

1028
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:53,000
And they said that the quote, Texas law invalidates an insanity defense if the mental condition

1029
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,680
was a result of voluntary action.

1030
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,680
Because he's black.

1031
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,200
He's black, he uses drugs.

1032
00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,920
That's what they're trying to say.

1033
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:03,320
So they're pretty much saying, yeah, he might be like a little mentally ill, but he's like

1034
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,040
making it much worse with drugs and alcohol.

1035
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,040
So that's his fault.

1036
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,120
But he's having those signs and symptoms of schizophrenia, which has nothing to do with

1037
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,520
the, again, the drugs and the alcohol are a comorbidity.

1038
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,480
They are not the cause of it.

1039
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:19,320
Those are symptoms of his schizophrenia.

1040
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,880
So the defense repuddles and says, no, the removal of his eyeball proves that he was

1041
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:24,880
insane.

1042
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,360
This happened and at the time of the crime, because he wasn't on drugs or drinking during

1043
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,360
that.

1044
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,560
And the state chalked it up to a quote, impulsive act rather than insanity.

1045
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,200
I swear to God, my, okay, impulsive act.

1046
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,560
I buy like $50 worth of food as an impulsive act that I don't eat.

1047
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,560
Like I'm sorry.

1048
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,000
I start painting my nails as an impulsive act and then I never finished the rest of

1049
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,000
them.

1050
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,000
Like what the hell?

1051
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,000
An impulsive bro.

1052
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,240
I don't think I've ever, yeah, no.

1053
00:46:56,240 --> 00:47:01,480
I would like to take a, if I could take a world poll right now and ask how many people

1054
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,560
have ripped out their eyeballs on an impulse, the answer is likely zero.

1055
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,560
Close to none.

1056
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:07,560
Yeah.

1057
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,160
Like what the fuck?

1058
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:14,080
So by the end of the trial, Andre was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death.

1059
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:15,080
Like literally.

1060
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:16,080
I'm like cringing.

1061
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:17,080
So awful.

1062
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,480
There's a lot of stigma surrounding the insanity plea.

1063
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,760
Of course it's like super hard to get approved as the insanity defense because you really

1064
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,200
have to prove pretty much that your client had no fucking clue what they were doing at

1065
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,560
the time of the crime.

1066
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,080
And even when you do prove that, sometimes the insanity defense still doesn't resonate

1067
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:31,080
with the jury.

1068
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:32,080
Yeah.

1069
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,640
Big names like Ted Bundy and Charlie Manson, they actually both tried to plead insanity,

1070
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,840
which is like fuck off because no.

1071
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:41,040
But you know, there's a lot of times in history where the insanity defeat gets proposed and

1072
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,040
then it gets denied.

1073
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,920
It's very rare, which I want to do like an entire podcast episode on the insanity plea.

1074
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:47,920
I think that would be super interesting.

1075
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:48,920
Yeah.

1076
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:49,920
Because I think Berkowitz even tried to plead insanity.

1077
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,920
Yeah.

1078
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,720
And it was schizophrenic as well.

1079
00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:57,080
And, uh, but I don't think that he has ever went through.

1080
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:58,080
Yeah.

1081
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,560
After the trial, Andre was sent to the Texas Department of Criminal Justice's Polanski

1082
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:02,560
unit.

1083
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,040
This is where Death Row and Mates are housed.

1084
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,960
And during this time, he continued to hear voices and claimed to see a six inch tall

1085
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:13,280
demon coming out of the prison wall and playing music from the band Queen.

1086
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:14,760
I love Queen.

1087
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:18,040
I love Queen so much, but that's terrifying.

1088
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,040
I don't know if I'm terrified or turned on.

1089
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,320
No, but seriously.

1090
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,320
No, six.

1091
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:24,840
I think it's a six inch.

1092
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:25,840
Six inch.

1093
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:26,840
Oh, six inches.

1094
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,840
Why would it be six inches?

1095
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:28,840
I don't know.

1096
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:29,840
Well, I would think it would be six foot.

1097
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:35,120
That's why I started doing this because I was like, oh, a six inch demon like playing

1098
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,120
the devil.

1099
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,120
No, but it was six foot.

1100
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,120
And I wrote it wrong.

1101
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:39,120
I don't know.

1102
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:40,120
The devil goes down again.

1103
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:41,120
Some sort of six, six, six, six.

1104
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,120
There you go.

1105
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:43,120
Yeah.

1106
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,400
Now in July, 2008, Andre attempted suicide yet again, this time by attempting to cut

1107
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,440
his throat with a sharp object.

1108
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:53,160
They didn't specify what it was, but the wound required eight stitches and he survived.

1109
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:58,040
Fast forward to October 2008, the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals denied his appeal, so no

1110
00:48:58,040 --> 00:48:59,320
movement in the case at all.

1111
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,040
They like stuck with the conviction.

1112
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,400
No, they don't have to do anything for the rest of forever.

1113
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:09,240
It's just a yet another black man who is living on death row, who killed his wife and his

1114
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:10,240
babies.

1115
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:11,240
Seriously.

1116
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:12,240
And a concurring drug addict.

1117
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:13,240
I mean, that's awful.

1118
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:14,240
Yeah, it's awful.

1119
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:19,200
In a concurring opinion, Judge Kathy Cochran wrote, quote, although reasonable people might

1120
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,960
well differ on the questions of whether this applicant was sane at the time he committed

1121
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,720
the murders or competent at the time he was tried.

1122
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:29,640
Those issues were appropriately addressed by the defense, the prosecution, trial judge

1123
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,440
in the jury during the trial.

1124
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,280
This is a sad case.

1125
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:39,160
Applicant is clearly, quote, crazy, but he's also, quote, sane under Texas law.

1126
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:40,160
Applicant.

1127
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:41,160
Yeah.

1128
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:42,160
Applicant.

1129
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,160
Not Andre Thomas.

1130
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,680
Not this person, not a human being, an applicant.

1131
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,400
So Leia Marie Hughes, which was the 13 month old, her father reportedly told the police

1132
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:56,120
after his daughter's murder that quote, Andre Thomas was crazy, unstable.

1133
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,640
Everyone knew him and his entire family was crazy.

1134
00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:59,840
I hate that fucking word.

1135
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:00,840
I hate that word too.

1136
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:01,840
I hate that word.

1137
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,800
That's like such a like cloud over your head stigma.

1138
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,180
So this Judge Kathy Cochran was pretty much saying like, yeah, he doesn't deserve the

1139
00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:13,120
death penalty, but he's because he's literally insane, but he doesn't meet all the requirements

1140
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,400
for being sane enough not to be put to death.

1141
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:16,480
Like, you know what I mean?

1142
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:17,480
Like that.

1143
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,560
Now, just after noon on December 9th, 2008, a corrections officer assigned to Texas's

1144
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:26,840
death row was making a normal security round in building 10 when he observed what appeared

1145
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,600
to be blood on the face of inmate Andre Thomas.

1146
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:36,000
The inmate told the officer that he had pulled out his last good eye and eaten it.

1147
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,720
So when he asked why he did this, he said it was to be.

1148
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:39,720
It was an impulse.

1149
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:40,720
Yeah.

1150
00:50:40,720 --> 00:50:41,720
Just an impulse in fact.

1151
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:44,440
You know, I just felt like ripping my only other eye out.

1152
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:45,440
Yeah.

1153
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:49,680
So he said to prevent the United States federal government from reading his thoughts.

1154
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,680
So again, not a, not a, you know, understanding explanation.

1155
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:55,680
Yeah.

1156
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,440
After that, he was treated in a hospital in Tyler, Texas, and then transferred to the

1157
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,760
Texas Department of Criminal Justice's Jester four unit where prisoners with mental

1158
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:09,080
health mental houses are ill with where prisoners with mental illness are housed.

1159
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:13,480
So finally, finally, his trial attorney said that he was able to finally get the psychiatric

1160
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:14,480
help that he needed.

1161
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:19,200
So we're going to fast forward a little bit more to March 16, 2010, when Andre appeals

1162
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:23,600
to the federal versus Eastern District Court, arguing that his trial was unfair and execution

1163
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,640
would be cruel and unusual punishment.

1164
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,080
The state denied his request.

1165
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,320
In early 2020, his case was actually brought before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth

1166
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,400
Circuit where attorney Catherine Carroll said that Andre's original legal representation

1167
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:41,160
was ineffective and his trial's attorney failed to object to the selection of three jurors

1168
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,080
with biased opinions against interracial marriages.

1169
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,480
Thank you.

1170
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,200
She also stated that trial counsel did not present an accurate information about Thomas's

1171
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:53,920
longstanding mental health problems, didn't request a complete competency hearing and

1172
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,600
presented a psychiatrist as an expert witness that did not have expertise in cases where

1173
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,760
mental illness were allegedly drug induced.

1174
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:01,760
Joseph Black.

1175
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,760
Oh my God.

1176
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:04,760
He didn't even have expertise in that field.

1177
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,120
This is 2020.

1178
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,640
This is 2020.

1179
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,880
And he's been in since pretty much 2005, 2006.

1180
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,120
Now people are saying like, oh, well, literally.

1181
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:18,120
Oh my gosh.

1182
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,560
Now in response, the prosecutor said that while there was evidence to support his mental

1183
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:23,720
illness, he was not insane.

1184
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:28,160
So the most recent thing that we've heard was in April 2021, the Fifth Circuit upheld

1185
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,320
the trial court's verdict.

1186
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,720
So Andre stays in jail where his eyelids are literally sewn shut because he doesn't have

1187
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:35,040
eyeballs.

1188
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,160
And I guess to keep from hurting himself, obviously.

1189
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,720
But he's pretty much stuck there for the foreseeable future.

1190
00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:42,440
And he's still on death row to this day.

1191
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,680
I will definitely post updates as I see them.

1192
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,400
Currently not much movement in his case.

1193
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:49,760
Isn't that a wild story?

1194
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,520
That is an intense case.

1195
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:52,520
That was a lot one.

1196
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:53,840
That was a lot for our first case.

1197
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:54,840
Yeah.

1198
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:55,840
Oh my gosh.

1199
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:56,840
Yeah.

1200
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:57,840
Thank you.

1201
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:58,840
Thank everybody for sticking through that.

1202
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,600
I know that was kind of, you know, a lot of information.

1203
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:08,640
The whole theme of him, of someone trying to reach out just to try to figure out what's

1204
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,560
going on in their head and literally no one can help them.

1205
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:17,480
It gets to a point to where that person can't even make that decision anymore.

1206
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:19,280
And yet he's still not being held.

1207
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:20,280
It's really unfortunate.

1208
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,640
I think this is a really bad case of, oh, whatever, he'll be fine.

1209
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:29,480
Or he's just being exaggeratory or that guy's just crazy or whatever you want to say.

1210
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:36,760
Like it's truly tragic that it ended up the way that it did because I genuinely think that

1211
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,480
had he gotten the help that he needed that it would have gone a completely different

1212
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,920
way and it might have been able to be prevented.

1213
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,960
So our hearts absolutely go out to the victims.

1214
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,320
We're not in any way saying that, you know, they don't deserve their story to be told,

1215
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,640
which is exactly why we're doing this podcast.

1216
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:54,200
We want to advocate for the mental illness that the killer experienced, but we're not

1217
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:55,560
advocating for the killer.

1218
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:56,560
Right.

1219
00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:57,560
Yeah.

1220
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:58,560
Of course.

1221
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:02,000
We're not just talking about the victims and we're glad we got justice.

1222
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,440
I don't believe that Andre Thomas deserves to be free.

1223
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:06,560
I do don't believe he deserves to be on death row.

1224
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:12,720
I think that he needs to be housed in a mental housing unit for the rest of it or a psychiatric

1225
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:13,720
hospital.

1226
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:14,720
Right.

1227
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,840
It's just unfortunate because I feel like at this point there's not, I don't think

1228
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,200
there's a lot that you could do to probably reverse the damage that's been done to his

1229
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:22,200
brain.

1230
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,200
Oh yeah.

1231
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:29,880
The damage that has been allowed to continue with his diagnosis because I mean really we

1232
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,920
had two officials say that that's what they think that he has, but clearly he's never

1233
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,320
truly been evaluated.

1234
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:41,120
And I think that if things had happened when he was younger and he had people that paid

1235
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:47,080
attention to him, parents, teachers, coaches, whatever, when he was 10 years old saying

1236
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:52,200
these things, that I think that he could have had at least somewhat of a grasp.

1237
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,640
And I think with a lot of mental illnesses and a lot of mental disorders, if you don't

1238
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,440
know what your brain is experiencing, you can't ever catch it.

1239
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:01,440
Of course.

1240
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:06,280
And you can't, if you don't know the ins and outs of the symptoms and you don't know

1241
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:13,040
what to look out for, I mean it's really hard to reach out to someone and say, I don't know

1242
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:17,480
what's going on, but it's easier to reach out to someone and say, I do kind of know

1243
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:18,480
what's going on.

1244
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:19,480
Exactly.

1245
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,440
And I know that at this point I've reached my threshold and I need to find some like

1246
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:24,920
an alternative to this.

1247
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:26,920
And he tried that so many times.

1248
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,320
Even without the knowledge of what was going on in his brain.

1249
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:34,160
Yeah, and I truly believe that anybody and everybody should be required to take some

1250
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:40,000
sort of psychology course in their, even in high school honestly, because just having

1251
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,280
that little bit of knowledge is very helpful for everyday situations.

1252
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,160
I use psychology every single day at work and I work in the service industry.

1253
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:52,440
I use it every single day in order to solve problems or to resonate with someone that's

1254
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:58,880
going through something when my co-worker is or guest or whoever.

1255
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:06,600
It genuinely helps me get through and I feel humbled by it and I feel like I'm giving back

1256
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:12,160
to my community and my peers and stuff by being able to give that information and educate

1257
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,840
people in that sense.

1258
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,800
And I think that's really why both of us are so passionate about getting this podcast started

1259
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,840
is because we really, really like the stories of true crime and stuff and it's very interesting

1260
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:28,760
to us but the mental health advocacy is really I think the main goal here.

1261
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:34,000
So we talked about schizophrenia in pieces during the episode.

1262
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:40,000
I think we'll, I don't know, we're going to go into, I want to go into depth on certain

1263
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,800
mental illnesses maybe in the future.

1264
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:47,840
So that was the diagnosis that he was I guess loosely diagnosed with by those two psychiatrists.

1265
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,680
Schizophrenia like I said, the number one symptom is auditory hallucinations.

1266
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:55,000
You're hearing voices, they're inside your head, people are talking to you and you talk

1267
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:56,280
back to them.

1268
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,840
It also does come with a number of other things like the catatonia.

1269
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,800
It comes with visual hallucinations.

1270
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,720
You can see things that aren't there.

1271
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:07,400
It comes with episodes of manic and mania and depression and there's a lot of things

1272
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,760
that go into schizophrenia and it's actually really prevalent.

1273
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,360
Just like 1% of Americans have schizophrenia.

1274
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:18,120
It's a very prevalent disorder and you don't know like any literally anybody can have schizophrenia

1275
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,160
and you wouldn't know and they might not even know.

1276
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,680
So it's nice to have that knowledge so you can be able to differentiate between okay,

1277
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:27,280
is this person struggling with a mental illness or is there something else going on?

1278
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,800
And if there is either one then you know how to approach it.

1279
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:36,720
So that's kind of a little bit of a tiny speck of information that we want to give about

1280
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:43,080
mental disorders but we'll definitely get some info flowing out for you all.

1281
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,160
Thank you so much for listening guys.

1282
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:46,160
Super happy.

1283
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:47,160
It was your first episode.

1284
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,720
I'm like really excited.

1285
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,520
I think we're gonna, hopefully we're gonna go far with this.

1286
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:57,240
I think we're gonna do really well and I'm hoping that you guys are enjoying the first

1287
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,000
content that we're putting out and let us know.

1288
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:01,000
Reach out.

1289
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,280
We'll try to get some lines of communication open and we'll let you guys know as soon as

1290
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,280
we get those started and yeah.

1291
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,920
In the meantime, my name is Kenna just to remind everybody, I know we're like brand new so

1292
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,120
this is Kenna speaking.

1293
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,120
I'm Koelle.

1294
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:15,120
And we are sisters.

1295
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:16,120
We're sisters.

1296
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,120
And yeah, super excited to continue the rest of our journey if you will.

1297
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:21,120
Yeah.

1298
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:22,120
Alright.

1299
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:23,120
Okay.

1300
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:24,120
Love you.

1301
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:25,120
Love you.

1302
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,120
Love you.

1303
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:27,120
Love you.

1304
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:28,120
Love you.

1305
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,120
Love you.

1306
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:30,120
Love you.

1307
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:31,120
Love you.

1308
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:32,120
Love you.

1309
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:33,120
Love you.

1310
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:34,120
Love you.

1311
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:35,120
Love you.

1312
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:37,960
Love you just love love still recognize.

1313
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,060
Love you.

1314
00:58:39,060 --> 00:58:40,160
Love you.

1315
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:41,300
Love you too.

1316
00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:42,300
Love you.

1317
00:58:42,300 --> 00:58:43,300
Love you.

1318
00:58:43,300 --> 00:58:44,300
Love you too.

1319
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:45,300
Love you.

1320
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:46,300
Love you.

1321
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:47,300
Love you.

1322
00:58:47,300 --> 00:58:48,300
Love you.

1323
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:49,300
Love you.

1324
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:50,300
Love you.

1325
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:51,300
Love you.

1326
00:58:51,300 --> 00:58:52,300
Love you.

1327
00:58:52,300 --> 00:58:53,300
Love you.

1328
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:54,300
Love you.

1329
00:58:54,300 --> 00:58:55,300
Love you.

1330
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:56,300
Love you.

1331
00:58:56,300 --> 00:58:57,300
Love you.

1332
00:58:57,300 --> 00:58:58,300
Love you.

1333
00:58:58,300 --> 00:58:59,300
Love you.

1334
00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:00,300
Love you, love you.

1335
00:59:00,300 --> 00:59:01,300
Love you.

1336
00:59:01,300 --> 00:59:02,300
Love you.

1337
00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:03,300
Love you.

1338
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:04,300
Love you.