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Hello! Hello!

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Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koel and I'm Kenna.

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How are you doing?

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I'm doing okay. How are you?

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I'm doing well.

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Wow, that's the first. I feel like if you listen to any previous episodes, you're like, oh, it's been a thing.

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It's a day.

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Life.

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No, things have been going really good and it's good to see you again. I haven't seen you in a while.

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I know. It's weird.

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We're actually in the same room again in our old closet.

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Yes.

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So it's going to sound nice and crisp for the audio, which is nice.

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This is just going to have to be the recording closet forever.

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It's just going to have to be because it's just not conducive.

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Unless your new place has a cool recording closet.

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I intend to make a little cool recording closet.

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So we'll see.

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Perfect. But it's not going to be close.

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No, it's not.

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We're going to live like 25 minutes apart.

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Yeah. That's going to be weird.

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Because even now that I'm not living at home, I only live like 8 minutes away.

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Yeah.

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So I'm not far.

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Well, it's not too far from here. It's probably about 12 minutes.

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Oh, that's not bad.

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In fact, I think you're even closer where you're at.

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Well, there you go.

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I haven't looked at the address.

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Sorry.

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I'm rude. I have seen the house though and it's very nice.

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Oh, thanks.

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I'm excited for you. Me too.

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We're doing the damn thing. We're moving up.

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I know.

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Well, I'm excited to hear your case.

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And before we get started, I'd just like to give everybody our social media handles.

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If it's your first time here, welcome.

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If you're not your first time here, then welcome back.

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Good to see you all.

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And you can follow us anywhere at Diagnosing a Killer with the exception of Twitter,

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which is or X, which is at Killer Diagnosis.

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We have a Venmo, PayPal,

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Cash App Setup, all at Diagnosing a Killer.

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And you can also reach out to us via email

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at Diagnosing a Killer at gmail.com.

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Yes.

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Finally, we do have that Patreon setup.

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If you are a current Patreon member,

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you have to do nothing different.

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You will still be getting the same content.

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And if you are not a current Patreon member,

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we do have two tiers now.

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We have a tier one that'll get ad free every episode.

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And then our tier two will get

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ad free every episode with an additional bonus episode

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each month.

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And yeah.

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Yeah, it's exciting.

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It's new stuff.

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Holiday is coming up and all that.

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So for sure.

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Well, that's all I had. I'm really ready to hear what you have

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because I feel like I've been eagerly awaiting

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who you're covering.

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It's given me nightmares.

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Oh no.

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Today, we're going to be talking about a one Andrew Cunanan.

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Okay, it kind of sounds familiar,

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but I'll have to get a memory

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to draw it.

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And then just a reminder to our listeners,

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nothing will sound different on your end.

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However, we are going to be recording

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the content warning at the end

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so that kind of isn't

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wise

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what we're going to be talking about,

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but you will hear your content warning right now.

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Content warning.

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This episode contains discussions of physical abuse,

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LGBTQ plus discrimination,

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torture and ultimately suicide.

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If this episode is not for you,

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please check out another one of our episodes.

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Remember that your mental health comes first

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and we love you.

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Andrew Philip Cunanan

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was born August 31st,

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1969

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in National City, California

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to Filipino-American

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Modesto, or Pete as he went by,

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Dango Cunanan

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and Italian-American

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mother Mary Ann

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Shalachi?

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There you go. Shalachi.

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You kind of threw me off for a second.

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You said California and then you said his name is Modesto.

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Isn't there a city in California called Modesto?

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There is. Yeah.

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Heard that one before. Never heard that.

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Modesto was a chief petty officer

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in the Navy

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and Mary was a homemaker taking care of Andrew

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and his three older siblings.

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The family was brought up in a very devout

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Catholic home

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and by the time that Andrew was born,

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Modesto was actually serving overseas

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in the Vietnam War.

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Due to this, Modesto from the beginning

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had denied that Andrew

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was even his child

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and had accused Mary

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of cheating on him when the child was conceived

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although there has been absolutely no evidence

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that this was the case.

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He was just like, yeah.

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He's like, oh, you had this baby

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while I was gone, therefore you cheated on me.

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Huh. Yeah.

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I've only been gone for nine months.

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I left yesterday.

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That baby's not mine.

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Modesto was known

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for ruling his home with an iron fist

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although not as often to his favorite child, Andrew.

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It is unclear

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if he became physically abusive to anyone in the home

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but Modesto was known

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for his short amount of patience

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especially with children.

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That's a great quality to have

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as an adult. Yeah.

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I want to have plenty of children

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but I don't want anything to do with them.

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And I don't like kids. I don't.

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I don't enjoy children.

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I don't like kids who have sticky hands.

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I mean, they do. They do.

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I'm going to be an almond mom to avoid all that shit

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because there's no way.

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Yeah.

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And I thought that was interesting too

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that he has these children he doesn't really care for

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but if he had to pick one it would be Andrew.

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You know, the bastard.

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Yeah, right. Exactly.

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But is he maybe the only boy?

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Did you know what his siblings are?

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No, I think he has two brothers and a sister.

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Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know.

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And these are literally prince...

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Yeah.

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Madesto may have had a hard time

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connecting with his children

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and this may explain why he decided

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to coddle them with money.

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He's like, Harak it away.

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Take this money.

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Andrew would live in the master bedroom

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of the family home...

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What?

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...complete with his own bathroom.

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Where were the parents?

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I don't know. I guess they just...

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in a smaller room.

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Like Regina George.

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Like, it used to be my parents, but I made them trade beef.

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But I made them switch.

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The family was well off given Modesto's successful career in the military, and when he finally

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came home permanently after his service, he decided to change careers and become a stockbroker.

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More money.

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This allotted the family with even better finances, and in order to appease his children,

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Modesto gave into a lot of luxuries for his children.

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The kids attended very expensive private schools and dressed their very best every day.

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And eventually the family settled in La Jolla, California, and once again Andrew was enrolled

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in a private Episcopal middle school.

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Teachers and staff remembered Andrew from his laugh and talkative nature.

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He seemed to be excited about getting to know others and often used his charisma to gain

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the attention of others.

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One thing that is also noticed about Andrew around this time was that he often fabricated

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stories or would sometimes just outright tell lies.

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This wasn't taken too seriously by teachers or staff at the time, as Andrew was the furthest

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thing from a troublemaker.

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He never got in trouble, he never picked fights, he just embellished.

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It was also determined around this time that Andrew actually had an IQ of 147.

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His brother Christopher would say that by age 10, Andrew had read all of the encyclopedias

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in the home, often referencing facts that he had read about.

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Andrew would meet his best friend Liz during his attendance here at the private school,

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and the two became inseparable.

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Andrew was, as I mentioned, very charismatic, well-dressed, and there was just something

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different about him.

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He seemed to really only connect with his girl classmates, and often Andrew got heat

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for this.

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Nevertheless, school was an escape for Andrew, and his home life was only continuing to deteriorate.

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Andrew's mother became severely depressed after the years of verbal abuse she suffered

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at the hands of his father, and on most days she would lay in bed and just sleep or cry.

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That's such a horrible feeling, because I know you and I both know how that feels, and

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laying in bed only makes it worse, but you can't do anything.

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You can't get up.

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You're literally not getting up.

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Yeah.

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This only exacerbated Andrew's lies to his friends at school in order to cover up his

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home life.

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This also gave Andrew a sense of comfortability and confiding in some of his friends by the

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time that he had high school.

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Andrew would eventually come out to his best friend Liz that he was in fact gay.

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Andrew had another side to him that began to develop.

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He would often, on the weekends, take his newly purchased car by his father, his father

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bought him a car.

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Down to San Francisco's Castro district, known for its dense gay population, Andrew

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began to find attraction to older, wealthier men, and went off to go out on dates with

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these men who would pay for the evening, essentially.

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That sounds like, sorry to interrupt you, but that sounds like, for lack of a better

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phrase, like kind of daddy issues.

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He's trying to seek the comfort of elder men, but I know that he definitely has a constricted

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relationship with his father, but it also sounds like that might, he might, maybe, this

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is me speculating, have been sexually abused by an older male.

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Maybe not his father, but maybe an older male because I feel like that's another thing

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that can lead into that.

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Because he has, as far as I'm concerned, the wealth and the money, all that financially

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stable from his dad, but I don't know.

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I just feel like that kind of says to me, he might have been searching for something

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different.

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Yeah, I do want to remind the listeners that Modesto isn't home very often.

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That's also true.

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And he's definitely looking for the connection, whether it be intimate or not, he's looking

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for a connection with someone who represents his father.

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So I agree with you about the quote unquote daddy issue, that he was lacking that growing

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up and he's looking for that again.

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Yeah.

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Okay, that makes more sense.

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I forgot to remember that little detail.

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Andrew still maintained his grades regardless of his double life and he would graduate in

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1987.

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He then enrolled in college, mostly at his father's insistence and he registered for

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the University of California, San Diego.

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However, just the following year in 1988, it would be found out that Modesto had actually

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been charged for embezzlement, stealing over $100,000.

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And people just be rich and just be rich like, honorably?

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No.

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That's not possible.

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The answer is no.

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The answer is no.

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I'm going to prove you all wrong.

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We solved it here on DAK.

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Modesto would then pack up and flee to the Philippines, leaving his entire family behind.

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Furthermore, Modesto would then sell the home out from under his family.

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Oh my gosh.

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Keeping all the profits.

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But that's crazy.

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Mary and the children would move to a small home and this did not serve Andrew, who had,

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up until this point, always appeared rich and wealthy and put together.

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And not for nothing, but as a kid growing up, if you know nothing else, you kind of

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get used to that lifestyle.

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So it's got to be a huge impact, being like, oh, I can no longer afford this or no longer

261
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,800
being able to live like this.

262
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,720
Yeah, it's kind of silly to call it a culture shock, but I mean, it's more of like a class

263
00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,720
shock.

264
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,600
And I wanted to just ask really quick, do you think that Modesto fled in order to avoid

265
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,200
prosecution for those charges?

266
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,400
Yeah, I think so.

267
00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,680
I think that's why he went to the Philippines and then, yeah, and then, you know, sold the

268
00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:59,320
house because, you know, if he were to go to trial for that, that's why I don't ever

269
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,320
think he went to trial.

270
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,400
I think he was charged with it and then he fled.

271
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:03,400
Right.

272
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,880
Because if he would have sold the house, they would have been able to take that money, like

273
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:06,880
just right back.

274
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:07,880
Yes.

275
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,360
But if he liquidates his assets, so to speak, then maybe he could get away with it?

276
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,000
Yeah, before he's found guilty, exactly.

277
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,320
He wants to cash in as much as he possibly can.

278
00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:22,520
For someone that is going into the law field, I need to learn more.

279
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:23,520
Yes.

280
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,720
I'm like, how does that work?

281
00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,120
Yes, so Andrew was almost immediately fed up by this downgrade and he would also pack

282
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:39,080
his bags and tell his mother that he was also moving to the Philippines to be with his father.

283
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,360
Andrew had always known his father to be well put together, rich, and living an affluent

284
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:44,520
life.

285
00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:49,040
So Andrew was completely shocked when he went to the Philippines and found his father was

286
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,720
living in squalor.

287
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:57,600
In his mind, it was worse than what his mother was living in, so Andrew decided to pack up

288
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,200
and leave the Philippines moving back in with his mother.

289
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,680
He's like, as a matter of fact, make that a round trip.

290
00:13:02,680 --> 00:13:03,680
Thank you.

291
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:04,680
Thank you.

292
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:05,960
But where's the money for the house?

293
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,400
Like how he's not using that money in the Philippines to give himself that kind of lifestyle

294
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,400
there?

295
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:12,400
I have no idea.

296
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,640
And that's another thing is, is he is he paying for his own room and board?

297
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,440
Was the money that he got for the house the only money he had?

298
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:20,440
Yeah, that's true.

299
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:21,440
And he's got to stretch it out, right?

300
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,400
I mean, he's on the run.

301
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,560
This entire situation was a lot for Andrew and thus he began to turn to other things

302
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,440
to make himself feel a little better.

303
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:37,560
He began frequenting gay nightclubs, doing drugs, partying all night, hooking up with

304
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:42,440
one nightstands, and eventually coming back home in the wee morning hours.

305
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:43,440
Geez.

306
00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:48,560
Mary and Andrew would regularly argue about Andrew's behavior as she was a devout Catholic

307
00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:49,560
woman.

308
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:53,120
And even if she didn't agree with Andrew's being gay, she certainly didn't agree with

309
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,560
Andrew putting himself in harm's way.

310
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:59,240
Not respecting his body and overall dangerous situations.

311
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,640
And it seems like, I mean, he's kind of looking, yeah, you're right, like for that outlet,

312
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,760
like how am I going to kind of avoid what I feel internally?

313
00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,240
And I'm going to just distract myself with all these things.

314
00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,040
Yeah, absolutely.

315
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,920
Andrew didn't care what his mom had to say.

316
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,920
He was going to do whatever he wanted to do.

317
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,040
She was just going to have to deal with it.

318
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,480
They would argue over and over again.

319
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,200
One time Andrew actually would shove his mother and when she fell, she dislocated her shoulder.

320
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:25,200
Oh my gosh.

321
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:26,200
Yeah.

322
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:30,640
Andrew was completely unapologetic about his behavior.

323
00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:35,160
He was dating closeted wealthy men at this time who usually paid for his dinners, his

324
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,040
partying and even his tuition.

325
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,840
Oh wow.

326
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:43,080
He had absolutely no plans on changing his path anytime soon.

327
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,600
Showing clear signs of a lack of empathy after this altercation with his mother, Andrew moved

328
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,400
closer to the Castro district and would eventually quit school.

329
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:58,520
Although Andrew went on plenty of dates, he did seem to want something long term.

330
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,160
Andrew would continue seeking attention from rich men and always saw himself as deserving

331
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:08,800
of luxury brand clothing and accessories and always tried to maintain an overall wealthy

332
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:09,800
image.

333
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,160
Again, if that's all you know growing up, that's what you're going to want to seek

334
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,160
in the future.

335
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,200
And you know, I understand that his parents raised him with the mindset of being a hard

336
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:22,960
worker, but I feel like he's kind of like at this point, fuck it, I've been giving

337
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,480
money my whole life, why can't it continue without me doing much for it?

338
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,600
Like, work wise.

339
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:37,200
Andrew seemed to mostly be driven by this want or wish to look wealthy, but it always

340
00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:42,480
seemed like a really profound loss for whenever Andrew would end a relationship.

341
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:47,280
It was especially egregious when it came to being denied by men who refused to reveal

342
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,640
that they were even in fact gay.

343
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:55,560
So again, closeted men, he was dating closeted men and relationships would end, but he would

344
00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,640
be even more upset if it was out of the refusal of acknowledging that the other person was

345
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:02,640
gay.

346
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,640
Oh my God.

347
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:10,160
So they would be dating in secret, but if the other man chose to end the relationship

348
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,800
because he didn't want to be outed, that was especially hurtful to Andrew.

349
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,760
Yeah, he's probably like, I'm living my authentic life, like why can't you?

350
00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:23,320
That's gotta be frustrating, not to say that anybody should come out before they're ready,

351
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,640
but it's a hard situation.

352
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,680
Liz, Andrew's best friend and her boyfriend lived with Andrew for a while and would, on

353
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:37,200
more than a few occasions, have to pick up the pieces for a heartbroken Andrew.

354
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,800
Andrew's best male friend at the time was a one Jeffrey trail, and Liz and Jeffrey were

355
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,040
always Andrew's sense of community.

356
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,540
Andrew's wild behavior continued to escalate and he began to engage in more risky sexual

357
00:16:50,540 --> 00:16:52,800
behaviors with others.

358
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,120
He would sometimes not use protection with strangers and also began exploring the world

359
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,320
of kinks.

360
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,440
Andrew would begin to watch extreme and violent porn and would enact some of these images

361
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,840
with others participating in BDSM groups.

362
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:14,440
During this time, Andrew began to go by different aliases, including Andrew De Silva, Lieutenant

363
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,280
Commander Andy Cummings, which is hilarious.

364
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:18,280
That's so funny.

365
00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:19,280
Also gross.

366
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,280
Super clever.

367
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,280
Andrew Cunningham and Kurt Matthew De Maris.

368
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:30,040
I think Lieutenant Commander Andy Cummings is probably what I'm gonna change my Instagram

369
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,040
handle to.

370
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,040
Yeah.

371
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,040
It's brilliant.

372
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:39,120
In 1995, Andrew began dating a wealthy architect by the name of David Mattson.

373
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:44,680
The two met in a San Fran bar and David was actually just visiting from Minneapolis at

374
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,280
the time.

375
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:52,240
David was in San Francisco, perhaps due to his work on AIDS and HIV awareness.

376
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,640
David had recently designed a memorial for the HIV and AIDS epidemic that had eradicated

377
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:03,040
so many lives in the queer community during this time in the 80s and the 90s.

378
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,400
A lot was still not known about this disease and David was very passionate about educating

379
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:14,840
others surrounding this mysterious illness.

380
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,280
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384
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390
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391
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Andrew found immediate attraction to David.

392
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:02,680
He was intelligent, kind, funny, and most of all, he was wealthy.

393
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,000
Andrew charmed David and the two kept in contact after their meeting.

394
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,800
The two began a long distance relationship, visiting each other when they could.

395
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,660
Things seemed to go well in Andrew's mind, so it was a surprise to him when David would

396
00:19:16,660 --> 00:19:21,000
eventually break things off without an explanation.

397
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,160
Although David would tell his friends and family that there was just something off about

398
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:31,960
Andrew that he couldn't quite put his finger on.

399
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,720
Andrew was, of course, devastated.

400
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,160
He didn't understand why David wouldn't want to be with him when he loved him so hard,

401
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,320
he tried to make it work, even if it was long distance.

402
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:49,840
Andrew considered David the love of his life, even if their time together was just brief.

403
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:55,200
Once again, Liz and Jeffrey came to Andrew's side to help him through this difficult time.

404
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:02,240
However, Andrew would very soon start dating another man by the name of Norman Blatford.

405
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,400
The two would quickly move in together.

406
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,400
This is before gay marriage was legal they couldn't have.

407
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:14,280
Andrew found himself having full access to Norman's finances.

408
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:21,760
Norman took Andrew on lavish trips, he bought Andrew a new car, he paid for his way as far

409
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:26,960
as living expenses, dinners, clothing, everything.

410
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:32,240
Without a need for having to pay for anything for himself, Andrew began using drugs heavily

411
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:33,880
again.

412
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:40,880
His preferred choice being methamphetamine, which makes everything better.

413
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,920
That's going to calm him down for sure.

414
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,360
Yeah, his already erratic behaviour.

415
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:52,200
Regardless of Norman paying for literally everything, Norman would still come to discover

416
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:57,840
that every single one of his credit cards were completely maxed out.

417
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,840
After this discovery, Norman would bring this up to Andrew, who then responded by packing

418
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,960
up his shit and leaving.

419
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,920
He was just like, oh you're going to confront me about taking all your money, I'm gone.

420
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,640
I already took all your money, so what else do you offer me?

421
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,200
I don't have anything else.

422
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,520
I'm taking this apple you left on the counter.

423
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,520
And the car you bought me.

424
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:16,640
And the car, right?

425
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:17,800
Even the roast beast.

426
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,280
The roast beast.

427
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,760
The roast beast.

428
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:28,680
Once again, Liz and Jeffrey going to Andrew, helping through this difficult time.

429
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:32,000
I'm a little worried for Liz and Jeffrey at this point.

430
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,720
At this point, Jeffrey begins to get fed up with Andrew's behaviour.

431
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:43,240
Jeffrey could not understand or see how Andrew would just use these men essentially, who

432
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:48,280
seemed like great guys, and simply leave them or not take any accountability for his actions

433
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,400
of the deterioration of the relationship.

434
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,400
Right.

435
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,360
He's like, oh well he's an asshole, he left me and whatever screwed him.

436
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,880
Oh, I'm devastated that I had to leave Norman because he's broke.

437
00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:58,880
Yeah.

438
00:21:58,880 --> 00:21:59,880
Like what?

439
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:00,880
He doesn't have any more money.

440
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,880
I don't know what the hell happened.

441
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,120
What's going to happen to me now?

442
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:04,120
Yeah.

443
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,560
What about me and my needs?

444
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,760
I'm a true narcissist in this case.

445
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,720
Jeffrey was absolutely done.

446
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,960
He broke off any relationship with Andrew he had after the breakup with Norman, and

447
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:19,680
he would actually move to Minneapolis, which is coincidentally very close to Andrew's

448
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:20,680
ex, David.

449
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,680
Yes.

450
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,560
Yeah, I was just thinking that.

451
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,920
After this breakup, Andrew actually began dealing drugs as well.

452
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,880
It might have been the drug use, or it might have been the multiple breakups, or it may

453
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:41,520
have even been the paranoia that he himself had contracted HIV, but it was clear that

454
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,160
Andrew began to develop a deep self-hatred for gay men.

455
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,160
Whoa.

456
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,160
Yeah.

457
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:56,320
In April of 1997, Andrew told a few friends that he was to soon visit Minneapolis to meet

458
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,560
up with Jeffrey.

459
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:04,880
People found this to be very odd as it was a well-known fact that Jeffrey and Andrew not

460
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,080
long ago had stopped talking.

461
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,040
Now is Jeffrey a gay man as well?

462
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,040
Yes.

463
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,040
Okay.

464
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,720
And Andrew would have been one in his late 20s around this point?

465
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,920
I'm not sure.

466
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,420
Yeah.

467
00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:23,040
So he was born in 1969, and this is 1997.

468
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,040
Okay.

469
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,520
By the way, that was a quote, if anyone didn't get that.

470
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,760
That's one of my favorite movies of all time.

471
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,960
When pushed about if Andrew and Jeff had made up somehow, Andrew would simply state that

472
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:39,040
he and Jeff had quote, some business to take care of, end quote.

473
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,440
You got a little business.

474
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,440
Yeah.

475
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,040
It's called meth, I'm kidding.

476
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:49,200
In Minneapolis, Jeff would tell friends that he in fact knew that Andrew was coming to

477
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,680
visit him, but that he didn't necessarily want to make things right with Andrew.

478
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,600
Because he was dating David.

479
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,000
No.

480
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,840
Just that he was willing to hear Andrew out, it was also understood that Andrew was to

481
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:07,360
visit his ex David with the intention of rekindling their relationship.

482
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:11,840
Although David made it very clear to others that he was uninterested in making up with

483
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:12,840
Andrew.

484
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,840
Right.

485
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:14,840
It's like you leave someone for a reason.

486
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:15,840
Yeah.

487
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:16,840
I don't want them to come trying to find me.

488
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:17,840
Like, yeah.

489
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,840
Like we had a good run of it, but like I don't want anything to do with you.

490
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,840
We broke up.

491
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:21,840
Yeah.

492
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:22,840
For sure.

493
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:23,840
And we live in different states.

494
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,120
Why are you coming all the way over here?

495
00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:31,200
Various reports conflicted on whether or not David and Jeff were in some kind of a romantic

496
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:38,560
relationship or if Andrew even suspected that the two might be seeing each other.

497
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,520
Correspondents between Jeff and Andrew's best friend Liz suggested that Jeffrey was

498
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,960
uncomfortable with Andrew's impending visit, saying that he knew that a big fight or a

499
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,640
blow up was imminent.

500
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:57,520
The night before Andrew left, he joined a few friends at a ritzy dinner, but unlike usual,

501
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,200
Andrew did not pay for the entirety of the dinner.

502
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:06,480
The following day, Andrew headed to Minneapolis and had convinced David to let Andrew stay

503
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:07,480
with him.

504
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:08,480
What?

505
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:14,360
David had also suggested that he pay for dinner the first night that Andrew would be in town.

506
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:19,160
Now the dinner and the stay with David may have only happened because David understood

507
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,400
that Andrew was dead broke.

508
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,120
He had maxed out all of his credit cards, and in fact, he had asked for an extension

509
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:34,400
on his payment to his credit cards just to pay for the one way flight to Minneapolis.

510
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,760
One way, you say?

511
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:37,160
One way.

512
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:44,480
The night that Andrew arrived, David, Jeffrey, and Jeffrey's partner, and Andrew, of course,

513
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,440
all visited Jeff's place before David and Andrew went out to an expensive dinner that

514
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,720
David would eventually pay for.

515
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:58,440
After dinner, the two, being Andrew and David, would go to a party at a nightclub.

516
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:03,280
The two would return home seemingly without incident that evening.

517
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,480
On the 26th of April, Andrew had made plans to stay at Jeffrey's place.

518
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:14,320
However, Jeffrey and his then boyfriend weren't going to be home, which is possibly why Jeffrey

519
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,200
agreed to Andrew staying in the apartment.

520
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,600
He's like, yeah, you can stay at our place.

521
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,600
We're actually going to be out of town.

522
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,240
So if David needs a little space or whatever, maybe David said you can stay here but only

523
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,720
one night, whatever the situation was.

524
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,360
Like a house sitter.

525
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:37,720
Andrew also hoped that Jeff and him eventually would have their long-awaited conversation.

526
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,440
When Jeff and his boyfriend returned home the next evening, however, it was odd that

527
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,240
none of Andrew's luggage was there.

528
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,160
In fact, it almost looked like Andrew had never stayed there.

529
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,880
Upon returning home, Jeff would also receive a phone call from Andrew, stating that he

530
00:26:53,880 --> 00:27:00,960
was at David's place and that the first night that Andrew was visiting with Jeff and Jeff's

531
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,160
partner, Andrew had actually stolen a handgun from Jeffrey's residence.

532
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:07,160
What?

533
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,240
So essentially Andrew's at David's.

534
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:18,480
And Andrew calls Jeffrey's place and says, hey, we still need to have that long-awaited

535
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,480
talk.

536
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,480
Oh, and by the way, I stole something from your apartment.

537
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,920
It was a gun.

538
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:31,040
If you want it, come over to David's so that I can give you your gun back and we can have

539
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,120
this long-awaited conversation.

540
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,720
So while they were out of town, Jeffrey and his partner, Andrew didn't stay over there,

541
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:37,960
but he went over there.

542
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:38,960
Yes.

543
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:39,960
Okay.

544
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,960
The first night they were all at Jeff's.

545
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:41,960
Oh, got it.

546
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:42,960
Yeah.

547
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:43,960
Okay.

548
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:50,680
So it's almost either like he's using it as collateral or incentive to get Jeffrey over

549
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:56,080
there or he's luring Jeffrey over there maybe for some other sinister reason.

550
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,080
Yeah.

551
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,080
Which I don't know.

552
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,080
I'd be like, I don't know.

553
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,080
I don't know what Andrew sold him.

554
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,760
It could have been like, oh, I took the gun from your apartment because I didn't know

555
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,080
how hostile everyone was going to be.

556
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,760
I didn't know, like I'm in Minneapolis.

557
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,080
I've never been here before or whatever.

558
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,400
You know, I need protection.

559
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,520
Maybe it didn't sound threatening the way he said it.

560
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:13,520
Right.

561
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,520
Exactly.

562
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,840
It probably hadn't have been just because Jeffrey was saying that he didn't want to be

563
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,480
around Andrew.

564
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:26,400
So I'm assuming that Andrew, again, using that charisma he's always had, was able to

565
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:32,320
convince Jeffrey to come over to David's.

566
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,920
Jeff then tells his boyfriend that he's going to go to David's to finally get this chat

567
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,520
over with with Andrew, but he was not necessarily concerned that Andrew would harm him.

568
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,040
And he's probably thinking too, like David's there.

569
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,840
Like, I believe there's another person there.

570
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,840
Why would he?

571
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:53,560
Jeffrey walked out the door at 9 p.m., arriving at David's apartment around 9.45.

572
00:28:53,560 --> 00:29:00,680
When Jeff arrived at David's apartment, he was even more, of course, like you said, at

573
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,560
ease that David was at least there.

574
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:09,280
So again, this is now Jeffrey and David and Andrew all at David's apartment.

575
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,120
But eventually, David would take the dog for a walk.

576
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:20,560
During this time, Andrew would actually bludgeon Jeffrey with a hammer while David was gone.

577
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,520
Oh my gosh.

578
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:28,960
Andrew killed Jeffrey, with David returning home a short time later to find Jeffrey's

579
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,120
bloody body on the floor of his apartment.

580
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,480
That's crazy.

581
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,880
Andrew would eventually roll up Jeffrey's body into the living room carpet.

582
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,080
While David's there.

583
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:47,240
Andrew and David would stay in the apartment for two days with Jeffrey's body.

584
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,640
It is not sure what has transpired over the course of these days, but it is confirmed

585
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:57,640
that on at least one occasion, the pair was seen getting onto the elevator of the apartments.

586
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:02,680
And on another occasion, the two were seen walking at David's dog.

587
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,280
Just a quick side note.

588
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:12,280
In my mind, I'm thinking now either David's in on this or he's also under threat of Andrew.

589
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,640
And he's now being essentially held hostage and forced to stay there.

590
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,880
And he's too afraid to try to run because of what he saw happen to Jeffrey.

591
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:21,880
Yeah, of course.

592
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,320
I mean, again, like you're saying, you're under the threat of a gun at all times.

593
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,120
Who knows what that's like?

594
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,040
Do you walk the dog?

595
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,600
The entire time David's dog has to be walked.

596
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,160
They have to go on about their business as usual, at least maybe in Andrew's mind to

597
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,160
save face.

598
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,440
Does he have a gun in his pocket the whole time?

599
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:43,440
Yeah.

600
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,000
You know, nobody knows.

601
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:52,760
On May 3rd, 1997, Andrew presumably forced David to get into his vehicle and the two

602
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,320
began driving into David's vehicle.

603
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:03,560
The vehicle came to a rest at Rush Lake, Minnesota, where David would see an opportunity to escape

604
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,000
from Andrew.

605
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,320
David turned away to run when Andrew shot David in the back, then knocking him to the

606
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,400
ground.

607
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:21,000
Andrew would turn David over before shooting him in the head, killing him by the lake shore.

608
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,640
Andrew Kunanan had made the decision to head far away from this scene, but not returned

609
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,000
to California.

610
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:35,800
On May 3rd, which was later that day, Kunanan found himself in Chicago, Illinois, and meanwhile,

611
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,280
police had already discovered David's body.

612
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,960
Returning to David's home some three hours drive away, Jeffrey's body was also discovered

613
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,800
by police.

614
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,920
Police who may have thought that maybe David had been the one to hurt Jeffrey and then somehow

615
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:56,600
shot himself, realized very quickly that there was no gun at the scene.

616
00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:03,520
They had also realized that David's jeep was missing, and police put a bolo out, which

617
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,480
is a B on the lookout.

618
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,880
So they're looking for a red jeep and a potential suspect.

619
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:16,720
Very quickly, police realized that their potential suspect was Andrew Kunanan after interviewing

620
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,880
neighbors and friends.

621
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:18,880
And Jeffrey's boyfriend.

622
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:19,880
And Jeffrey, yeah, probably.

623
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Yeah.

624
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,840
It was very, very quick.

625
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,120
They realized what was going on.

626
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,040
Kunanan needing to switch vehicles and being without any money would break into the home

627
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,880
of a 72-year-old man by the name of Lee McGlin.

628
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:39,280
Lee was a well-known real estate developer in Chicago and found his fortune in some of

629
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,960
the tallest buildings in the U.S.

630
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:48,240
He was also making plans to develop the tallest building in the world.

631
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,200
Lee was known for his philanthropy and was perhaps even more well-known for his love

632
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,800
of helping others.

633
00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:00,080
However, on this day, Lee was forced to face his mortality.

634
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,680
Kunanan bound Lee by his wrists and ankles.

635
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:08,280
Kunanan would then beat the 72-year-old over the course of many hours.

636
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:14,520
It seemed that, for whatever reason, Kunanan looked to torture the man, not just kill him.

637
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,960
The FBI would note that duct tape had been wrapped around Lee's face, but that the tape

638
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,360
was placed beneath Lee's nose, allowing him to breathe.

639
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,480
So it wasn't that he was trying to suffocate him.

640
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,800
Showing that Kunanan intended to keep him alive for a long while.

641
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,720
Because of this, the FBI was willing to say that Kunanan and Lee must have known each

642
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,520
other prior to the attack, although there is no direct evidence to this day that this

643
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,520
was the case.

644
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,800
Cause it sounds like a crime of passion, or at least something a little bit more personal

645
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:46,800
than a break-in.

646
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,200
I just need your money and your car.

647
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,080
If you just wanted the money and the car, you could have just killed the man, or maybe

648
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,080
even not killed the man.

649
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,520
You could have just taken it.

650
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,680
He was a spry 72, but he was 72 years old.

651
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:08,600
His family also denies that they ever knew Lee to be gay or be intimate with another

652
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,680
man or any of that other said had anything like that.

653
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:20,040
On May 4th, Kunanan would stab Lee repeatedly with a screwdriver 22 times before his throat

654
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,520
was ultimately slit using a hacksaw.

655
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:25,520
That is brutal.

656
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,280
That's overkill.

657
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,320
Once friends and family were concerned about not hearing from Lee Miglin, they went looking

658
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,720
on Lee's property.

659
00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:38,120
Eventually they would find his body in his own garage.

660
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,640
It's just pure rage.

661
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,240
But again, this man was clearly very well loved if people were missing him after just

662
00:34:46,240 --> 00:34:48,520
hours, essentially.

663
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,480
I would say less than 24 hours.

664
00:34:52,480 --> 00:35:01,440
Lee's green Lexus was missing, but just down the road, a red Jeep registered to David.

665
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:09,440
Five days after Lee's body was found, 45-year-old William Bill Reese was at work at Fenns Point

666
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440
National in Pensville Township, New Jersey.

667
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,080
He got four.

668
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:16,080
Yeah.

669
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,920
He was gone from Minneapolis.

670
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,520
He went up to Minnesota a little bit, or not Minnesota, but Lake.

671
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,640
Which was three hours away.

672
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,560
Then drove to Chicago in the opposite direction.

673
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,800
Then we were at, now we're at Jersey.

674
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,720
The farthest point from California.

675
00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,200
So we're talking about Bill Reese.

676
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:46,400
Bill loved his wife, his job, which he had worked for over 15 years, and enjoyed civil

677
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,960
worry enactments with friends, which is a-

678
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,440
Oh, that's so wholesome.

679
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,720
So cute.

680
00:35:53,720 --> 00:36:00,160
He was described as a kind man, and he had a real love for life and laughs.

681
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:05,560
But once again, Qnannan needed to switch vehicles after learning that the FBI had been tracking

682
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:11,440
Lee's car by peeing the car's phone as Qnannan was using it.

683
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,960
Which again, we have to remind the listeners that this is in the 90s.

684
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:16,960
Right.

685
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:17,960
It's not like-

686
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:18,960
You had car phones.

687
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:19,960
Okay.

688
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:20,960
Knowledgeable.

689
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:21,960
Like, maybe he might not even realize it could be tracked.

690
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:22,960
Right.

691
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,240
Because you had a landline at home, or you had a car phone.

692
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:27,240
Yeah.

693
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:31,640
I mean, that was as mobile, pun intended, as phones got.

694
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:37,440
So yes, they could track this while Qnannan was driving because he insisted on using it.

695
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,320
They call it, and he's like, hello, what do you want?

696
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:44,000
He must have thought he was real rich shit sitting in that Lexus with that phone car.

697
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,280
I'm sure he drove with the windows rolled down so everybody could see him using it.

698
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:56,240
While driving through the cemetery, Qnannan, he saw Bill's 95 red shivvy pickup sitting

699
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:59,800
outside the caretaker's office.

700
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:06,640
Qnannan would enter the office, find Bill, where he would shoot him in the head, and

701
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,080
Bill would essentially die almost instantly.

702
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,160
But again, he didn't torture him.

703
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:15,320
What's the difference between him and Lee?

704
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:21,240
I don't know, and also what's the difference between giving me your keys at gunpoint and

705
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:22,240
killing the man?

706
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:25,000
Like, he just wanted to kill, seems like.

707
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:30,440
And I think that, maybe sorry, the difference might be the time that had passed from David's

708
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:31,440
murder.

709
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:38,960
So my mind, psychologically standpoint speaking, is he's raging, even though he's multiple

710
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,800
hours away from Chicago, that whole drive he's probably hitting the steering wheel in

711
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,300
a rage.

712
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:48,400
First person he sees, overkill, brutal murder.

713
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,680
Then he has all this time to drive to New Jersey, maybe the someone that has worn off.

714
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,240
But he still thinks that he has to cover his tracks, so to speak, so he kills the man quickly.

715
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:02,720
I think what's interesting about it too is that the time in between is getting shorter.

716
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:07,120
You had David, he killed Jeffrey.

717
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,200
He had David with him for, what, three days?

718
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:17,320
When he tortures Lee for 18 hours, then he just shot Bill.

719
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,800
So is it that he's feeling the pressure?

720
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:26,760
He's feeling the anxiety, he knows he's going to get caught soon, so it's becoming more

721
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,760
of a spree.

722
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:29,760
Yeah.

723
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,320
Well, he knows he's being tracked.

724
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,320
Yeah.

725
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:39,480
Andrew Cunanan would steal Bill's truck, leaving Bill in the office with the radio playing.

726
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,280
It wasn't until Bill did not return home by dinner time that Bill's wife arrived at

727
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,000
the cemetery to check on him.

728
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,280
Oh my god.

729
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,320
She would be the one to find Bill's body.

730
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,200
Cunanan continued to head south, perhaps to find somewhere low-key.

731
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,720
However, it's never been in Andrew's nature to remain low-key.

732
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:02,920
Right, he's always wanted to be a peacock.

733
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:08,720
Andrew Cunanan books a hotel in the Normandy Plaza Hotel on May 12th in Miami, Florida

734
00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:10,600
for $20 a night.

735
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:11,600
Oh.

736
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,120
Sorry, $29 a night.

737
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,120
Hey, big spender.

738
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,680
Big spender.

739
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:17,680
But in the 90s.

740
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,760
I did the conversion, it's still only like 80 bucks.

741
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,160
Still do, the hotel is like 40 right now.

742
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,640
Well, that's true.

743
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,640
It's not the most lavish hotel, but it does boast that some of the world's most famous

744
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:37,160
players have stayed there, including Marilyn Monroe, Humphrey Bogard, and Frank Sinatra.

745
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:39,680
He's like, oh, I've made it.

746
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,560
I would say that it's stupid for Andrew to go to a major city, however, he chooses this

747
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,520
location specifically for its nightlife.

748
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:51,760
This is in South Beach, Miami, where there is a dense gay population, and Andrew Cunanan

749
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,360
could fit right in hiding in plain sight.

750
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,600
Perhaps blend in, even.

751
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,200
Perhaps even blend in.

752
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,040
Just gonna become one of the locals.

753
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,200
Yeah, he's gonna fake a Cuban accent.

754
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:09,000
One month after Bill Reese's murder, Andrew Cunanan was officially added to the FBI's

755
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,000
most wanted list.

756
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,320
Oh my god, it's been a month already.

757
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:12,720
A month.

758
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:14,720
Since his last killing.

759
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:15,720
That we know of.

760
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:19,280
And he's just hanging around people, people are interacting with him every single day.

761
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,280
Every single day.

762
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,720
Probably sleeping with more wealthy men.

763
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,120
Probably using their money.

764
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:32,000
Yeah, he's going back to his old life.

765
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:35,960
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769
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,840
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770
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771
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,520
So yes, the FBI had added him to the most wanted list after bullet fragments found at

772
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,920
the scene were matched to the bullet fragments at the David Madsen murder.

773
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,280
This is Bill's murder.

774
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,840
So same gun, same bullet.

775
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:17,760
But even this would not keep Cunanan from walking along Miami's South Beach every night.

776
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:18,760
Gun in hand.

777
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:19,760
Gun in hand.

778
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:20,760
No, that's horrible.

779
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,880
But that's just like the arrogance is what it is.

780
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,480
It's like, oh, I'm just gonna do whatever the fuck I want again and no one can catch

781
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:28,480
me.

782
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,960
Yeah, I'm sure he thought like, okay, well, I'll go out this day and if nobody recognizes

783
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,800
me then I'll go out the next day and the next day until you know, somebody gives him

784
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:37,800
a side eye.

785
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,200
It's been a month and he's like, oh, I got away with it.

786
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:47,760
On July 7th, Cunanan, low on funds, takes a gold coin previously stolen from Lee Miglin's

787
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,160
residence and walks into a pawn shop.

788
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,400
He then pawns the coin for just $200.

789
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:03,120
The clerk of the shop only asked for Andrew's full name in current residence, with Cunanan

790
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,480
feeling completely unbeatable at this point, gives his real name and the address of the

791
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,000
Normandy Motel where he's staying.

792
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,000
Wow.

793
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,000
Room number.

794
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,000
Yeah, right.

795
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,200
I'm there from the hours of.

796
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,360
I also murdered three people.

797
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:18,360
Write that down.

798
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,520
And a month ago.

799
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:25,160
The clerk did not ask Andrew Cunanan for any forms of identification, simply taking

800
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,320
his word for it.

801
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:33,840
Nonetheless, the paperwork was filed, eventually ending up on the desk of Miami's police department,

802
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,960
which checks all pawn records for things like stolen goods and guns and stuff.

803
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,440
This paperwork, however, would not immediately be looked at.

804
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,520
Cunanan would make this money last for just one more week.

805
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:53,560
Okay, what I'm thinking is you're running a hotel for what, $30 a night?

806
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,160
I mean, I guess that's enough, right?

807
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,360
How many more am I living with it?

808
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,520
Yeah, I think that's about it.

809
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,520
The Whistley Cat.

810
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:04,520
But still.

811
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,920
But you know, he's going out still.

812
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:06,920
Yeah.

813
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:07,920
I mean, he can't help it.

814
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,200
But again, he's probably getting everything paid for him when he goes out because he's

815
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:11,200
charming.

816
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:12,200
That's true.

817
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,240
So Cunanan would eventually have to check out of the hotel on July 14, 1997.

818
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,120
What was that?

819
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,120
You were two years old.

820
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:20,120
It was two.

821
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,840
The very next morning, a set of circumstances would ensure that the entire world would know

822
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:32,480
the name Andrew Cunanan, and even more so the name Gianni Versace.

823
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:39,360
Giovanni Versace was born on the 2nd of December 1946 to his parents, his mother being a dressmaker

824
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,880
by trade.

825
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,360
Which is adorable.

826
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,640
Gianni was the middle child of four.

827
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:51,120
One of his siblings had actually passed away at age 12 by an untreated illness, so he would

828
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:52,360
have had three siblings.

829
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,360
I'm sorry.

830
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:54,640
Oh no, he has four.

831
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:55,640
One passed away.

832
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,000
There's two rebating.

833
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:03,520
Growing up, he had an older brother, Santo, and a younger sister named Donatella.

834
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:09,160
Gianni grew up embracing his culture as the family lived in the, oh gosh, just bear with

835
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,840
me.

836
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,360
It's Reggio Calabria.

837
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,120
There you go.

838
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,360
Known for its dims Greek and Italian influences.

839
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,880
At a young age, Gianni was helping his mother in her dressmaking, and he had always had

840
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,760
a keen eye for design.

841
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:31,560
At first he thought he'd become an architect, but found that he did have a true gift in

842
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,480
fashion.

843
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,880
At age 26, he moved to Milan to pursue his career in fashion.

844
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:46,120
He first collaborated with the design company, Gianni, for his youth engineer line, Biblos.

845
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,520
And then he moved to another collab titled, Complyce.

846
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:56,080
And soon in 1978, Gianni would introduce his first collection and would open a boutique

847
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,600
before his first fashion show in Milan.

848
00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,600
How cool.

849
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:00,600
I know, right?

850
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:01,600
He's like mid-20s.

851
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,880
I don't have an eye for that kind of thing.

852
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:04,880
Wild.

853
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:10,320
Gianni was known for his bold use of color and pushing the boundaries of sexuality.

854
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:15,720
Gianni was used to sewing women's wear, and thus often tailored men's suits with stitching

855
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:17,640
that accentuated the male form.

856
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:18,640
Wow.

857
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:19,640
Right?

858
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,600
So that's why it was so unique and why it was so revolutionary.

859
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:30,360
He was not designing women's wear, he was designing men's wear, but that shape the

860
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:31,840
male body.

861
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:32,840
That's really cool.

862
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:39,240
And especially for that time period, there's plenty of people, men, that like to dress

863
00:45:39,240 --> 00:45:40,240
differently.

864
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,840
Like, you know, so many men's clothing that you see today is all the same cut, the same

865
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,000
fit, except for like big and tall.

866
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,360
You know, they're most usually the same style on the same fit.

867
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,000
And that's really cool that it was super unique.

868
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,400
And no wonder he's so famous.

869
00:45:54,400 --> 00:46:00,560
Essentially Gianni laid the form, or the platform down for things like slim fit.

870
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:01,560
You know what I mean?

871
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,200
You know, jeans, if you think about it, you know, things like that, little influences.

872
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,680
We are skinny jeans gals through and through.

873
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:08,680
Oh my God.

874
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:10,360
I cannot get away from the skinny jeans.

875
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,360
Oh my gosh.

876
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:17,000
Although I have bought some carpenter jeans recently and I don't hate them.

877
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,920
So Gianni actually would design and make his own materials and fabrics.

878
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:21,920
Wow.

879
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,880
Like he's actually named specific fabrics, blends of fabrics.

880
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:26,880
Cool.

881
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:27,880
Yeah, I mean he's like, yeah.

882
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:28,880
He's a genius.

883
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:29,880
He's the god of it.

884
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:30,880
Creative genius.

885
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:35,720
Gianni would add nodes to his Greek heritage by incorporating gods and goddesses on his

886
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:40,680
designs, one of the more famous one being that of Medusa.

887
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:46,280
Gianni had rivalries at the time, especially with fashion designer Giorgio Armani saying

888
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:51,200
that quote, Armani dresses the wife, but Versace dresses the mistress.

889
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,200
And quote.

890
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,760
Oh, look at the look.

891
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,720
Gianni created his business around his family.

892
00:46:57,720 --> 00:47:02,000
His brother Santo was the president and his sister Donatella was the vice president, making

893
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,280
her husband overseer of menswear.

894
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,160
So it was a whole family affair.

895
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:10,960
That's honestly really cool too because he provided for them as well, not just for himself.

896
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,040
He's like, hey, like I want to bring you guys in on this.

897
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,040
Yeah.

898
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:15,040
This is really cool.

899
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:16,040
It's an empire.

900
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,040
Yeah, definitely.

901
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:24,680
In 1982, Gianni would meet the man that would change his life forever, model Antonio D'Amico.

902
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:29,280
It was said that Gianni and Antonio loved each other very much and traveled and worked

903
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,200
together most of their life together.

904
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,640
It was when the two had traveled to Miami for work when Gianni told Antonio that he would

905
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,600
never want to leave.

906
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:44,400
He loved the excitement, the heat, the culture and the scene of South Beach.

907
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:50,640
Gianni would purchase an oceanfront property at the time worth under just $3 million, which

908
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,480
is a lot.

909
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:58,400
So the property was dubbed Casina Casurina, which was located on South Beach in 1992,

910
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,640
where the couple would eventually live permanently.

911
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:08,120
Gianni Versace bought the house for $2.95 million in 1992.

912
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,800
He would restore the original name and actually return it to private use because it had been,

913
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,520
I think, turned into a hotel.

914
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:22,440
He created eight bedrooms, two kitchens, three sitting rooms, 10 bathrooms, a bar, a library,

915
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:23,960
and four living rooms.

916
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:24,960
Goals.

917
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:25,960
Right?

918
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,960
He installed modern systems, including central air conditioning.

919
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:36,480
In 1993, Versace bought the adjoining Riviera Hotel to the south for $3.7 million, which

920
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:40,000
he would then tear down to make a pool and a garden area for the house.

921
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,160
Could you imagine buying a $3 million house just to tear it down?

922
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,160
That is baller.

923
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,720
That's his fucking ball.

924
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:48,800
Whoa.

925
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:54,360
The pool was known as the renowned Thousand Mosaic Pool, adorned with thousands of 24-carat

926
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,280
gold tiles imported from Italy.

927
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,280
Geez.

928
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,280
Doing the damn thing.

929
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,120
Versace had actually commissioned Sir Roy Strong, which is an English art historian and

930
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:10,720
landscape designer, to work on the garden to create the garden.

931
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:17,520
He had also created gardens at Versace's Villa Fortinelli on Lake Como in Italy.

932
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:21,800
And Gianni loved this place, and the locals loved him too.

933
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,120
He would sometimes walk down to the South Beach streets and often wouldn't be hassled

934
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:27,360
as much.

935
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,800
One of his daily tasks would be to collect the newest magazines, and regularly he had

936
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,840
an assistant do this for him most mornings.

937
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,600
On the morning of July 15th, however, Gianni wanted to make the morning walk alone at about

938
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,360
8.45 in the morning.

939
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:48,840
Gianni reached the café for the daily articles, purchased a newspaper, and then began to make

940
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,120
the walk back.

941
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:56,400
When Gianni reached the gate of his home, he would be shot twice in his back, as his

942
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,200
back was turned to in a salient.

943
00:49:58,200 --> 00:49:59,200
What?

944
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,280
How did I not know this?

945
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,440
It's pretty intense.

946
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:07,080
Witnesses who looked into the direction of the shots said that a man dressed in a grey

947
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:13,480
t-shirt, black shorts, a white hat, and carrying a backpack was fleeing the scene by the time

948
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,200
that they saw what was going on.

949
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:22,520
Antonio inside the mansion heard something outside, and he could see through the stained

950
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,320
glass of stairs that there was a commotion.

951
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:31,920
But not truly being able to see, he ran downstairs and would open the gates, where he saw his

952
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:37,360
partner of 15 years laying in a pool of blood on the front steps of their home.

953
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:38,840
Oh my god, that's scary.

954
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:43,680
Antonio said about this moment, quote, I saw Gianni lying on the steps with blood around

955
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:44,760
him.

956
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,160
At that point, everything went dark.

957
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,640
I was pulled away.

958
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:51,840
I didn't see anymore, end quote.

959
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,800
Paramedics arrived on scene where they took Gianni Versace to the hospital, where he would

960
00:50:55,800 --> 00:51:00,000
later be pronounced dead, just 40 minutes after the shots.

961
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,320
Okay, this is literally another John Lennon story because I did not know that he was

962
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:06,320
dead.

963
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,000
I swear I thought this guy was alive.

964
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:09,000
The company's still.

965
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:10,000
Yeah.

966
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,520
Oh my god, how horrible.

967
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:18,080
Meanwhile, police scoured the area looking for clues on who this gunman might be.

968
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:25,600
There in a nearby parking garage was Bill Reese's 1995 Chevy truck.

969
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:30,240
And it, articles of clothing that matched the description that the witnesses gave.

970
00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:31,240
So he changed.

971
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:32,960
Or he just took his clothes off.

972
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:33,960
Run around naked.

973
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:35,560
They're not looking for a naked guy.

974
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,840
He's naked somewhere.

975
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,840
They realize now that Q Nanon was in Miami.

976
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,520
Other witnesses stated that Q Nanon had hopped into a taxi before fleeing the scene.

977
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,320
Hearing this, police declared an immediate shutdown of the city.

978
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:52,320
Yeah.

979
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:53,320
Of Miami.

980
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:58,760
He was a huge, hugely famous person that just got assassinated.

981
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:03,240
Residents were encouraged to stay in place, lock their doors and stay off the streets

982
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:04,800
while police search for Q Nanon.

983
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:05,800
Right.

984
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:06,800
And they knew it was him.

985
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:07,800
Oh, because of the car.

986
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:08,800
Yeah.

987
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,800
Q Nanon would not be seen for another eight days.

988
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,280
Oh my god, that's so scary.

989
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:14,280
Like what do you do?

990
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,520
Wouldn't you lift the stay in place?

991
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:17,840
I wouldn't leave my house.

992
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:18,840
Right?

993
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:20,840
The homeboy's just running around naked somewhere.

994
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:21,840
What are you gonna do?

995
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,360
It's so bad.

996
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:30,960
A caretaker on an ocean drive marina was inspecting houseboats one by one, making sure that all

997
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,040
was secure and good.

998
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,840
But something caught his eye.

999
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:42,400
Inside one of the houseboats, Andrew Q Nanon had sought refuge, a mere seven minutes away

1000
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:43,640
from Versace's mansion.

1001
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,440
He had been there the whole time.

1002
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,440
For eight days.

1003
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:47,800
Oh my god.

1004
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:55,040
When the caretaker shouted to alert the man that he was trespassing, a shot was fired.

1005
00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:01,040
Frightened of being killed, the caretaker ran to phone the police on his findings.

1006
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,920
The police immediately thinking this must be Q Nanon.

1007
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:11,040
Police respond to the call and quickly surround the houseboat, ordering Q Nanon to come out

1008
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,520
with his hands in the air and surrender to law enforcement.

1009
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:19,280
This reminds me so much of the Boston Marathon bomber guy the way it played out.

1010
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,040
Oh my gosh, I remember watching that on the news.

1011
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:22,520
He was literally hiding in a boat.

1012
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:23,520
In the boat.

1013
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:24,520
Yeah.

1014
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,560
But I mean, I remember us seeing those aerial shots with the helicopters and there was like

1015
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:32,440
blood smearing on the sides of the boats because we had been shot.

1016
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:33,440
We had to cover that one.

1017
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:35,440
We definitely do.

1018
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:36,440
Sometimes.

1019
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:41,920
So after a long standoff, police decided to enter the houseboat in order to forcefully

1020
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,600
remove Q Nanon.

1021
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:49,560
There in the houseboat, lying on the bed, was Andrew Q Nanon.

1022
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:55,160
He had taken his own life by a single gunshot to the head.

1023
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:00,480
He had used the very same gun he used throughout the entire killings free.

1024
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:09,720
So initially, the houseboat guy, when he shouted and he heard a fire, he thought that he was

1025
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:13,960
being fired upon, but it was actually Andrew Q Nanon taking his own life.

1026
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:17,640
Honestly, that kind of peaves me.

1027
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:19,560
Doesn't it all?

1028
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:26,920
A spree killing, right, is defined by the Death Investigation Training Academy as quote,

1029
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:33,240
a spree killing involving a string of at least three murders in several locations arising

1030
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:39,240
from a key participating incident that continues to fuel the motivation to kill.

1031
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:44,640
In this case, Q Nanon's apparent hatred for gay men.

1032
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:49,320
The murders occur fairly close in time, but the timeframe lasts significantly longer than

1033
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:53,920
that of a mass murder, and locations are further apart.

1034
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,440
The victims can be targeted or random, end quote.

1035
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:02,920
It was also insinuated that Andrew Q Nanon was a sociopath, a sociopath being a person

1036
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:08,720
with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme, antisocial attitudes and behaviors

1037
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,600
and lack of consciousness.

1038
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:18,080
So what we say when, often time we come across that word, sociopath or psychopath, it's

1039
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:19,920
due to a personality disorder.

1040
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,880
That is the diagnosis, not one or the other.

1041
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,040
It's tendencies that put them into those categories.

1042
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:27,040
Yes.

1043
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,800
Which we now know, again, could potentially be antisocial personality disorder in Andrew

1044
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,720
Q Nanon's case, but the world may never know.

1045
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:36,720
Or narcissistic personality disorder.

1046
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:37,720
Yeah.

1047
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:41,920
Andrew Q Nanon's true motives have never been revealed, as that knowledge died with

1048
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:42,920
him.

1049
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:47,680
But what we can say is that Andrew Q Nanon clearly struggled with his place in the world.

1050
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:54,040
The lifestyle he wanted to live was unattainable by conventional matters, as he wasn't essentially

1051
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:55,040
going to work hard for it.

1052
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:57,080
He was just going to take it.

1053
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:01,880
He was too rebellious and self-centered enough to share deep connections with others, which

1054
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:04,480
we talk about narcissistic tendencies, right?

1055
00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:05,880
They're kind of apparent.

1056
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,160
Or was he just angry?

1057
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:12,520
After Gianni's death, his sister Donatella took over the family design.

1058
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:16,360
While some thought that she would never live up to her brother's work, Donatella has proven

1059
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:21,640
to strengthen the family's name and has created a complete empire in the Versace name.

1060
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,360
Ooh, got a full body in here.

1061
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:30,440
Donatella and Antonio had it out a bit after Gianni's death, as Donatella had the majority

1062
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:37,960
of Gianni's estate, and Antonio would essentially have to fight for his right as Gianni's partner.

1063
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:44,000
Again, this is before same-sex marriage was legal, and that's part of the reason why I

1064
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,600
think it should have always been legal.

1065
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:51,800
It's for situations like this, where you spent 15 years with your partner and you have no

1066
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:54,960
legal rights to anything you accumulated over the time you were together.

1067
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:56,040
Because you weren't married.

1068
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,040
Because you weren't married.

1069
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:58,040
Yep.

1070
00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,040
Like it was a choice.

1071
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,600
Ah, sad.

1072
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:06,360
So yes, it was ruled that Antonio could stay in Gianni's other residence with certain

1073
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:07,360
restrictions.

1074
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:14,600
And in 2018, a miniseries titled The Assassination of Gianni Versace, American Crime Story, was

1075
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,720
released on FX.

1076
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:21,920
The show received both praise and scrutiny for the portrayal of Gianni and his partner,

1077
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,400
even by Antonio.

1078
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:29,960
Quote, there has been so much written and said about the murder and thousands of suppositions,

1079
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:33,720
but not a trace of reality.

1080
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:39,240
Antonio expressed concern that the actor who portrayed him, which was Ricky Martin, did

1081
00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:43,000
not reach out to him in order to get a deeper understanding of the relationship between

1082
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,000
him and Gianni.

1083
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,200
Which he would think that that would be part of your job.

1084
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:55,640
And if you're portraying a real person, at least Antonio would have the choice of saying,

1085
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,120
you can talk to a source or you can talk to me personally.

1086
00:57:58,120 --> 00:57:59,120
Right.

1087
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,040
But to not even reach out, come on Ricky Martin, do better.

1088
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:06,320
You're living la vie de loca for sure.

1089
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:07,320
Sorry.

1090
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:14,120
Welcome to New York City and a funky cheap motel.

1091
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,000
All right, I'm done.

1092
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:18,640
He's talking about Andrew Cunanan.

1093
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,280
Oh my God.

1094
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:28,080
Antonio said, quote, the picture of Ricky Martin holding the body and his arms is ridiculous.

1095
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:32,240
Maybe it's the director's poetic license, but that is not how I reacted.

1096
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:37,400
And quote, Antonio would describe the clip of the show that he found Gianni as looking

1097
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,920
like the famous statue La Pita de Michelangelo.

1098
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,040
Yeah, with the stab wound on the side.

1099
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:49,240
Yeah, which is Mary holding Jesus in her arms and that's the way it was supposed to look.

1100
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,840
But if you think about Gianni, maybe he might have been a religious person, but if you're

1101
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,360
really going to duplicate a piece of art, don't you think that it would emulate something

1102
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:02,000
like Greek gods and goddesses or Italian influences?

1103
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,680
And I get Michelangelo's Italian, but you know, it's just a little more up there.

1104
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:07,680
Yeah.

1105
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:08,680
Yeah.

1106
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:11,880
It seems like low hanging fruit or, you know, just ask the person that's still around to

1107
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:12,880
tell you.

1108
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,760
And it's the courtesy you can do.

1109
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:15,760
Exactly.

1110
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:21,560
That's going to be hard to see a documentary portrayed not only about your person's life,

1111
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:22,560
but your life as well.

1112
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:23,560
Yeah.

1113
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,280
And not be able to give any help for facts.

1114
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,680
Think about the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you.

1115
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:34,000
And now think about Hollywood making it into something.

1116
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,040
And not even asking you what it was like.

1117
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:38,040
That's what that's like.

1118
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:39,840
It's awful.

1119
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:47,200
Unfortunately, Antonia would pass away in December 2022 at the age of 63, which is so

1120
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,200
young.

1121
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,200
That's really young.

1122
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:51,680
But as far as I can tell, I don't think he ever married.

1123
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,960
I think he dated long term, but yeah.

1124
00:59:55,960 --> 01:00:01,400
Well, Andrew Cunanan does not deserve final notes.

1125
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:02,720
Only Gianni Versace does.

1126
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,200
So that is Andrew Cunanan.

1127
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,800
I, again, am baffled over here.

1128
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,240
I thought that Gianni Versace was alive.

1129
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:13,240
I am silly.

1130
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,520
I need to get up on my pop culture, I guess.

1131
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:17,520
Your fashionistas?

1132
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:18,520
Yeah.

1133
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,960
But that story just from start to finish is just as wild.

1134
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:26,960
And we had kind of peppered in a couple of suggestions for disorders.

1135
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:32,760
But I think it has a lot of, and we always say that it has to do with like a poor childhood,

1136
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,080
low self-esteem, things like that that happen when you're younger.

1137
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:40,680
And I think that his dad not only not being around for the majority of his childhood, but

1138
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:45,520
then up and leaving at the drop of a hat really, really affected him.

1139
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:51,160
And of course, he not only had to endure maybe that verbal, any kind of abuse that he did,

1140
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:54,640
but he had to watch his mom go through that as well and maybe his siblings.

1141
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:56,800
And that's traumatic in and itself.

1142
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:01,160
And all those things can cause a dissociation of reality later in life, which is really

1143
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:03,960
true for people with antisocial personality disorder.

1144
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,280
I'm wondering if there wasn't something underlying originally, right?

1145
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,480
Like you said, antisocial personality disorder.

1146
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:18,160
But there's this just overall aura of defiance around Andrew.

1147
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,440
And I don't, did it start out as a defiance disorder?

1148
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:26,120
And did it not get treated or seen at all?

1149
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,120
Or maybe if it got stifled.

1150
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:29,120
Yeah.

1151
01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:36,400
And just the needing, of course he had Liz and for a short time there, he had Jeffrey

1152
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:40,280
that were validating those feelings, being some of the only people that he probably felt

1153
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,880
validated in to his core.

1154
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:48,920
Other than that, it seems like a lot of bouncing around to different, I would say, social groups

1155
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,720
to get that validation.

1156
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:56,240
It also seems like Liz and Jeffrey were what they could be for him for as long as they

1157
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:57,240
could be.

1158
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:02,320
And a certain time comes in your life where you mentally develop and you grow up and it

1159
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:08,160
almost seems like they kind of kept growing with their emotional maturity and Andrew didn't.

1160
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,960
And maybe that's what caused that disconnect between them.

1161
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:12,680
And that's obviously got to be another thing.

1162
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:19,480
I feel like maybe there was an emotional stunt in his brain and that's what kept him from

1163
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:25,160
becoming a mature, functioning, emotional, functioning adult and having all that rage

1164
01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:26,360
develop because of it.

1165
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:27,360
Yeah.

1166
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:36,160
Having to deal with this Peter Pan syndrome, if you will, and wanting to remain young and

1167
01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,880
hot and taking care of always.

1168
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:44,320
I mean, you hit the nail on the head right there because that's what I see.

1169
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:51,880
I see him not having that childhood enough for longer.

1170
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:53,240
He had to grow up very, very fast.

1171
01:02:53,240 --> 01:03:03,680
I mean, he was going down to these very potentially seedy areas even in high school trying to

1172
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:09,240
stay taken care of financially and emotionally and all that stuff.

1173
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,320
And when you have someone else taking care of all those things for you, then it gives

1174
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:13,880
you an excuse to not do it yourself.

1175
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,680
Like emotionally and mature.

1176
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:16,920
He didn't want to grow up.

1177
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:17,920
Right.

1178
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,240
But that's a wild story.

1179
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:20,240
Thank you for bringing that.

1180
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,200
I did not know that case at all.

1181
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,160
The last name just sounds kind of familiar, but nope, did not know it.

1182
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:26,160
So thanks for bringing that.

1183
01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:27,160
You're welcome.

1184
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:28,160
I hope you guys enjoyed this one.

1185
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:29,160
Yeah.

1186
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:33,000
I'm excited to never talk about Andrew Canaan and ever again.

1187
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,000
Perfect.

1188
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:35,000
I can go to bed easy now.

1189
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,600
Don't have to become nightmares.

1190
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,640
Just a quick reminder, we do have that new Patreon set up.

1191
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,400
There are still technically four tiers open.

1192
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,840
You can join any one of the three that are $5.

1193
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:47,040
They're all still there.

1194
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,600
And then the number, the first one is $3.

1195
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,360
So the $3 one is going to get you those ad free episodes.

1196
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:57,520
The $5 will get you ad free episodes as well as the bonus episode every month.

1197
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,040
Takes just a couple minutes to sign up.

1198
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,600
And yeah, that's pretty much all we got.

1199
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:03,600
Yeah.

1200
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:04,600
Anything else?

1201
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:05,600
That's it.

1202
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:06,600
Okay.

1203
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:07,600
We'll see you guys soon.

1204
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:08,600
Love you.

1205
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:09,600
Bye.

1206
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:10,600
Love you.

1207
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:11,600
Bye.

1208
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:12,600
Love you.

1209
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:13,600
Love you.

1210
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:14,600
Love you.

1211
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:15,600
Love you.

1212
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:16,600
Love you.

1213
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:17,600
Love you.

1214
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:18,600
Love you.

1215
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:19,600
I appreciate it.

1216
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:20,600
Thank you so much.

1217
01:04:20,600 --> 01:04:21,600
Thanks, Lilly.

1218
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:22,600
Love you.

1219
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:24,600
She likes to show up here.

1220
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:25,600
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1221
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,200
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