Hello! Hello!
Welcome back to another episode of Diagnosing a Killer. I'm Koel and I'm Kenna.
How are you doing?
I'm doing okay. How are you?
I'm doing well.
Wow, that's the first. I feel like if you listen to any previous episodes, you're like, oh, it's been a thing.
It's a day.
Life.
No, things have been going really good and it's good to see you again. I haven't seen you in a while.
I know. It's weird.
We're actually in the same room again in our old closet.
Yes.
So it's going to sound nice and crisp for the audio, which is nice.
This is just going to have to be the recording closet forever.
It's just going to have to be because it's just not conducive.
Unless your new place has a cool recording closet.
I intend to make a little cool recording closet.
So we'll see.
Perfect. But it's not going to be close.
No, it's not.
We're going to live like 25 minutes apart.
Yeah. That's going to be weird.
Because even now that I'm not living at home, I only live like 8 minutes away.
Yeah.
So I'm not far.
Well, it's not too far from here. It's probably about 12 minutes.
Oh, that's not bad.
In fact, I think you're even closer where you're at.
Well, there you go.
I haven't looked at the address.
Sorry.
I'm rude. I have seen the house though and it's very nice.
Oh, thanks.
I'm excited for you. Me too.
We're doing the damn thing. We're moving up.
I know.
Well, I'm excited to hear your case.
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And yeah.
Yeah, it's exciting.
It's new stuff.
Holiday is coming up and all that.
So for sure.
Well, that's all I had. I'm really ready to hear what you have
because I feel like I've been eagerly awaiting
who you're covering.
It's given me nightmares.
Oh no.
Today, we're going to be talking about a one Andrew Cunanan.
Okay, it kind of sounds familiar,
but I'll have to get a memory
to draw it.
And then just a reminder to our listeners,
nothing will sound different on your end.
However, we are going to be recording
the content warning at the end
so that kind of isn't
wise
what we're going to be talking about,
but you will hear your content warning right now.
Content warning.
This episode contains discussions of physical abuse,
LGBTQ plus discrimination,
torture and ultimately suicide.
If this episode is not for you,
please check out another one of our episodes.
Remember that your mental health comes first
and we love you.
Andrew Philip Cunanan
was born August 31st,
1969
in National City, California
to Filipino-American
Modesto, or Pete as he went by,
Dango Cunanan
and Italian-American
mother Mary Ann
Shalachi?
There you go. Shalachi.
You kind of threw me off for a second.
You said California and then you said his name is Modesto.
Isn't there a city in California called Modesto?
There is. Yeah.
Heard that one before. Never heard that.
Modesto was a chief petty officer
in the Navy
and Mary was a homemaker taking care of Andrew
and his three older siblings.
The family was brought up in a very devout
Catholic home
and by the time that Andrew was born,
Modesto was actually serving overseas
in the Vietnam War.
Due to this, Modesto from the beginning
had denied that Andrew
was even his child
and had accused Mary
of cheating on him when the child was conceived
although there has been absolutely no evidence
that this was the case.
He was just like, yeah.
He's like, oh, you had this baby
while I was gone, therefore you cheated on me.
Huh. Yeah.
I've only been gone for nine months.
I left yesterday.
That baby's not mine.
Modesto was known
for ruling his home with an iron fist
although not as often to his favorite child, Andrew.
It is unclear
if he became physically abusive to anyone in the home
but Modesto was known
for his short amount of patience
especially with children.
That's a great quality to have
as an adult. Yeah.
I want to have plenty of children
but I don't want anything to do with them.
And I don't like kids. I don't.
I don't enjoy children.
I don't like kids who have sticky hands.
I mean, they do. They do.
I'm going to be an almond mom to avoid all that shit
because there's no way.
Yeah.
And I thought that was interesting too
that he has these children he doesn't really care for
but if he had to pick one it would be Andrew.
You know, the bastard.
Yeah, right. Exactly.
But is he maybe the only boy?
Did you know what his siblings are?
No, I think he has two brothers and a sister.
Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know.
And these are literally prince...
Yeah.
Madesto may have had a hard time
connecting with his children
and this may explain why he decided
to coddle them with money.
He's like, Harak it away.
Take this money.
Andrew would live in the master bedroom
of the family home...
What?
...complete with his own bathroom.
Where were the parents?
I don't know. I guess they just...
in a smaller room.
Like Regina George.
Like, it used to be my parents, but I made them trade beef.
But I made them switch.
The family was well off given Modesto's successful career in the military, and when he finally
came home permanently after his service, he decided to change careers and become a stockbroker.
More money.
This allotted the family with even better finances, and in order to appease his children,
Modesto gave into a lot of luxuries for his children.
The kids attended very expensive private schools and dressed their very best every day.
And eventually the family settled in La Jolla, California, and once again Andrew was enrolled
in a private Episcopal middle school.
Teachers and staff remembered Andrew from his laugh and talkative nature.
He seemed to be excited about getting to know others and often used his charisma to gain
the attention of others.
One thing that is also noticed about Andrew around this time was that he often fabricated
stories or would sometimes just outright tell lies.
This wasn't taken too seriously by teachers or staff at the time, as Andrew was the furthest
thing from a troublemaker.
He never got in trouble, he never picked fights, he just embellished.
It was also determined around this time that Andrew actually had an IQ of 147.
His brother Christopher would say that by age 10, Andrew had read all of the encyclopedias
in the home, often referencing facts that he had read about.
Andrew would meet his best friend Liz during his attendance here at the private school,
and the two became inseparable.
Andrew was, as I mentioned, very charismatic, well-dressed, and there was just something
different about him.
He seemed to really only connect with his girl classmates, and often Andrew got heat
for this.
Nevertheless, school was an escape for Andrew, and his home life was only continuing to deteriorate.
Andrew's mother became severely depressed after the years of verbal abuse she suffered
at the hands of his father, and on most days she would lay in bed and just sleep or cry.
That's such a horrible feeling, because I know you and I both know how that feels, and
laying in bed only makes it worse, but you can't do anything.
You can't get up.
You're literally not getting up.
Yeah.
This only exacerbated Andrew's lies to his friends at school in order to cover up his
home life.
This also gave Andrew a sense of comfortability and confiding in some of his friends by the
time that he had high school.
Andrew would eventually come out to his best friend Liz that he was in fact gay.
Andrew had another side to him that began to develop.
He would often, on the weekends, take his newly purchased car by his father, his father
bought him a car.
Down to San Francisco's Castro district, known for its dense gay population, Andrew
began to find attraction to older, wealthier men, and went off to go out on dates with
these men who would pay for the evening, essentially.
That sounds like, sorry to interrupt you, but that sounds like, for lack of a better
phrase, like kind of daddy issues.
He's trying to seek the comfort of elder men, but I know that he definitely has a constricted
relationship with his father, but it also sounds like that might, he might, maybe, this
is me speculating, have been sexually abused by an older male.
Maybe not his father, but maybe an older male because I feel like that's another thing
that can lead into that.
Because he has, as far as I'm concerned, the wealth and the money, all that financially
stable from his dad, but I don't know.
I just feel like that kind of says to me, he might have been searching for something
different.
Yeah, I do want to remind the listeners that Modesto isn't home very often.
That's also true.
And he's definitely looking for the connection, whether it be intimate or not, he's looking
for a connection with someone who represents his father.
So I agree with you about the quote unquote daddy issue, that he was lacking that growing
up and he's looking for that again.
Yeah.
Okay, that makes more sense.
I forgot to remember that little detail.
Andrew still maintained his grades regardless of his double life and he would graduate in
1987.
He then enrolled in college, mostly at his father's insistence and he registered for
the University of California, San Diego.
However, just the following year in 1988, it would be found out that Modesto had actually
been charged for embezzlement, stealing over $100,000.
And people just be rich and just be rich like, honorably?
No.
That's not possible.
The answer is no.
I'm going to prove you all wrong.
We solved it here on DAK.
Modesto would then pack up and flee to the Philippines, leaving his entire family behind.
Furthermore, Modesto would then sell the home out from under his family.
Oh my gosh.
Keeping all the profits.
But that's crazy.
Mary and the children would move to a small home and this did not serve Andrew, who had,
up until this point, always appeared rich and wealthy and put together.
And not for nothing, but as a kid growing up, if you know nothing else, you kind of
get used to that lifestyle.
So it's got to be a huge impact, being like, oh, I can no longer afford this or no longer
being able to live like this.
Yeah, it's kind of silly to call it a culture shock, but I mean, it's more of like a class
shock.
And I wanted to just ask really quick, do you think that Modesto fled in order to avoid
prosecution for those charges?
Yeah, I think so.
I think that's why he went to the Philippines and then, yeah, and then, you know, sold the
house because, you know, if he were to go to trial for that, that's why I don't ever
think he went to trial.
I think he was charged with it and then he fled.
Right.
Because if he would have sold the house, they would have been able to take that money, like
just right back.
Yes.
But if he liquidates his assets, so to speak, then maybe he could get away with it?
Yeah, before he's found guilty, exactly.
He wants to cash in as much as he possibly can.
For someone that is going into the law field, I need to learn more.
Yes.
I'm like, how does that work?
Yes, so Andrew was almost immediately fed up by this downgrade and he would also pack
his bags and tell his mother that he was also moving to the Philippines to be with his father.
Andrew had always known his father to be well put together, rich, and living an affluent
life.
So Andrew was completely shocked when he went to the Philippines and found his father was
living in squalor.
In his mind, it was worse than what his mother was living in, so Andrew decided to pack up
and leave the Philippines moving back in with his mother.
He's like, as a matter of fact, make that a round trip.
Thank you.
But where's the money for the house?
Like how he's not using that money in the Philippines to give himself that kind of lifestyle
there?
I have no idea.
And that's another thing is, is he is he paying for his own room and board?
Was the money that he got for the house the only money he had?
Yeah, that's true.
And he's got to stretch it out, right?
I mean, he's on the run.
This entire situation was a lot for Andrew and thus he began to turn to other things
to make himself feel a little better.
He began frequenting gay nightclubs, doing drugs, partying all night, hooking up with
one nightstands, and eventually coming back home in the wee morning hours.
Geez.
Mary and Andrew would regularly argue about Andrew's behavior as she was a devout Catholic
woman.
And even if she didn't agree with Andrew's being gay, she certainly didn't agree with
Andrew putting himself in harm's way.
Not respecting his body and overall dangerous situations.
And it seems like, I mean, he's kind of looking, yeah, you're right, like for that outlet,
like how am I going to kind of avoid what I feel internally?
And I'm going to just distract myself with all these things.
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew didn't care what his mom had to say.
He was going to do whatever he wanted to do.
She was just going to have to deal with it.
They would argue over and over again.
One time Andrew actually would shove his mother and when she fell, she dislocated her shoulder.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Andrew was completely unapologetic about his behavior.
He was dating closeted wealthy men at this time who usually paid for his dinners, his
partying and even his tuition.
Oh wow.
He had absolutely no plans on changing his path anytime soon.
Showing clear signs of a lack of empathy after this altercation with his mother, Andrew moved
closer to the Castro district and would eventually quit school.
Although Andrew went on plenty of dates, he did seem to want something long term.
Andrew would continue seeking attention from rich men and always saw himself as deserving
of luxury brand clothing and accessories and always tried to maintain an overall wealthy
image.
Again, if that's all you know growing up, that's what you're going to want to seek
in the future.
And you know, I understand that his parents raised him with the mindset of being a hard
worker, but I feel like he's kind of like at this point, fuck it, I've been giving
money my whole life, why can't it continue without me doing much for it?
Like, work wise.
Andrew seemed to mostly be driven by this want or wish to look wealthy, but it always
seemed like a really profound loss for whenever Andrew would end a relationship.
It was especially egregious when it came to being denied by men who refused to reveal
that they were even in fact gay.
So again, closeted men, he was dating closeted men and relationships would end, but he would
be even more upset if it was out of the refusal of acknowledging that the other person was
gay.
Oh my God.
So they would be dating in secret, but if the other man chose to end the relationship
because he didn't want to be outed, that was especially hurtful to Andrew.
Yeah, he's probably like, I'm living my authentic life, like why can't you?
That's gotta be frustrating, not to say that anybody should come out before they're ready,
but it's a hard situation.
Liz, Andrew's best friend and her boyfriend lived with Andrew for a while and would, on
more than a few occasions, have to pick up the pieces for a heartbroken Andrew.
Andrew's best male friend at the time was a one Jeffrey trail, and Liz and Jeffrey were
always Andrew's sense of community.
Andrew's wild behavior continued to escalate and he began to engage in more risky sexual
behaviors with others.
He would sometimes not use protection with strangers and also began exploring the world
of kinks.
Andrew would begin to watch extreme and violent porn and would enact some of these images
with others participating in BDSM groups.
During this time, Andrew began to go by different aliases, including Andrew De Silva, Lieutenant
Commander Andy Cummings, which is hilarious.
That's so funny.
Also gross.
Super clever.
Andrew Cunningham and Kurt Matthew De Maris.
I think Lieutenant Commander Andy Cummings is probably what I'm gonna change my Instagram
handle to.
Yeah.
It's brilliant.
In 1995, Andrew began dating a wealthy architect by the name of David Mattson.
The two met in a San Fran bar and David was actually just visiting from Minneapolis at
the time.
David was in San Francisco, perhaps due to his work on AIDS and HIV awareness.
David had recently designed a memorial for the HIV and AIDS epidemic that had eradicated
so many lives in the queer community during this time in the 80s and the 90s.
A lot was still not known about this disease and David was very passionate about educating
others surrounding this mysterious illness.
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Andrew found immediate attraction to David.
He was intelligent, kind, funny, and most of all, he was wealthy.
Andrew charmed David and the two kept in contact after their meeting.
The two began a long distance relationship, visiting each other when they could.
Things seemed to go well in Andrew's mind, so it was a surprise to him when David would
eventually break things off without an explanation.
Although David would tell his friends and family that there was just something off about
Andrew that he couldn't quite put his finger on.
Andrew was, of course, devastated.
He didn't understand why David wouldn't want to be with him when he loved him so hard,
he tried to make it work, even if it was long distance.
Andrew considered David the love of his life, even if their time together was just brief.
Once again, Liz and Jeffrey came to Andrew's side to help him through this difficult time.
However, Andrew would very soon start dating another man by the name of Norman Blatford.
The two would quickly move in together.
This is before gay marriage was legal they couldn't have.
Andrew found himself having full access to Norman's finances.
Norman took Andrew on lavish trips, he bought Andrew a new car, he paid for his way as far
as living expenses, dinners, clothing, everything.
Without a need for having to pay for anything for himself, Andrew began using drugs heavily
again.
His preferred choice being methamphetamine, which makes everything better.
That's going to calm him down for sure.
Yeah, his already erratic behaviour.
Regardless of Norman paying for literally everything, Norman would still come to discover
that every single one of his credit cards were completely maxed out.
After this discovery, Norman would bring this up to Andrew, who then responded by packing
up his shit and leaving.
He was just like, oh you're going to confront me about taking all your money, I'm gone.
I already took all your money, so what else do you offer me?
I don't have anything else.
I'm taking this apple you left on the counter.
And the car you bought me.
And the car, right?
Even the roast beast.
The roast beast.
Once again, Liz and Jeffrey going to Andrew, helping through this difficult time.
I'm a little worried for Liz and Jeffrey at this point.
At this point, Jeffrey begins to get fed up with Andrew's behaviour.
Jeffrey could not understand or see how Andrew would just use these men essentially, who
seemed like great guys, and simply leave them or not take any accountability for his actions
of the deterioration of the relationship.
Right.
He's like, oh well he's an asshole, he left me and whatever screwed him.
Oh, I'm devastated that I had to leave Norman because he's broke.
Yeah.
Like what?
He doesn't have any more money.
I don't know what the hell happened.
What's going to happen to me now?
Yeah.
What about me and my needs?
I'm a true narcissist in this case.
Jeffrey was absolutely done.
He broke off any relationship with Andrew he had after the breakup with Norman, and
he would actually move to Minneapolis, which is coincidentally very close to Andrew's
ex, David.
Yes.
Yeah, I was just thinking that.
After this breakup, Andrew actually began dealing drugs as well.
It might have been the drug use, or it might have been the multiple breakups, or it may
have even been the paranoia that he himself had contracted HIV, but it was clear that
Andrew began to develop a deep self-hatred for gay men.
Whoa.
Yeah.
In April of 1997, Andrew told a few friends that he was to soon visit Minneapolis to meet
up with Jeffrey.
People found this to be very odd as it was a well-known fact that Jeffrey and Andrew not
long ago had stopped talking.
Now is Jeffrey a gay man as well?
Yes.
Okay.
And Andrew would have been one in his late 20s around this point?
I'm not sure.
Yeah.
So he was born in 1969, and this is 1997.
Okay.
By the way, that was a quote, if anyone didn't get that.
That's one of my favorite movies of all time.
When pushed about if Andrew and Jeff had made up somehow, Andrew would simply state that
he and Jeff had quote, some business to take care of, end quote.
You got a little business.
Yeah.
It's called meth, I'm kidding.
In Minneapolis, Jeff would tell friends that he in fact knew that Andrew was coming to
visit him, but that he didn't necessarily want to make things right with Andrew.
Because he was dating David.
No.
Just that he was willing to hear Andrew out, it was also understood that Andrew was to
visit his ex David with the intention of rekindling their relationship.
Although David made it very clear to others that he was uninterested in making up with
Andrew.
Right.
It's like you leave someone for a reason.
Yeah.
I don't want them to come trying to find me.
Like, yeah.
Like we had a good run of it, but like I don't want anything to do with you.
We broke up.
Yeah.
For sure.
And we live in different states.
Why are you coming all the way over here?
Various reports conflicted on whether or not David and Jeff were in some kind of a romantic
relationship or if Andrew even suspected that the two might be seeing each other.
Correspondents between Jeff and Andrew's best friend Liz suggested that Jeffrey was
uncomfortable with Andrew's impending visit, saying that he knew that a big fight or a
blow up was imminent.
The night before Andrew left, he joined a few friends at a ritzy dinner, but unlike usual,
Andrew did not pay for the entirety of the dinner.
The following day, Andrew headed to Minneapolis and had convinced David to let Andrew stay
with him.
What?
David had also suggested that he pay for dinner the first night that Andrew would be in town.
Now the dinner and the stay with David may have only happened because David understood
that Andrew was dead broke.
He had maxed out all of his credit cards, and in fact, he had asked for an extension
on his payment to his credit cards just to pay for the one way flight to Minneapolis.
One way, you say?
One way.
The night that Andrew arrived, David, Jeffrey, and Jeffrey's partner, and Andrew, of course,
all visited Jeff's place before David and Andrew went out to an expensive dinner that
David would eventually pay for.
After dinner, the two, being Andrew and David, would go to a party at a nightclub.
The two would return home seemingly without incident that evening.
On the 26th of April, Andrew had made plans to stay at Jeffrey's place.
However, Jeffrey and his then boyfriend weren't going to be home, which is possibly why Jeffrey
agreed to Andrew staying in the apartment.
He's like, yeah, you can stay at our place.
We're actually going to be out of town.
So if David needs a little space or whatever, maybe David said you can stay here but only
one night, whatever the situation was.
Like a house sitter.
Andrew also hoped that Jeff and him eventually would have their long-awaited conversation.
When Jeff and his boyfriend returned home the next evening, however, it was odd that
none of Andrew's luggage was there.
In fact, it almost looked like Andrew had never stayed there.
Upon returning home, Jeff would also receive a phone call from Andrew, stating that he
was at David's place and that the first night that Andrew was visiting with Jeff and Jeff's
partner, Andrew had actually stolen a handgun from Jeffrey's residence.
What?
So essentially Andrew's at David's.
And Andrew calls Jeffrey's place and says, hey, we still need to have that long-awaited
talk.
Oh, and by the way, I stole something from your apartment.
It was a gun.
If you want it, come over to David's so that I can give you your gun back and we can have
this long-awaited conversation.
So while they were out of town, Jeffrey and his partner, Andrew didn't stay over there,
but he went over there.
Yes.
Okay.
The first night they were all at Jeff's.
Oh, got it.
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's almost either like he's using it as collateral or incentive to get Jeffrey over
there or he's luring Jeffrey over there maybe for some other sinister reason.
Yeah.
Which I don't know.
I'd be like, I don't know.
I don't know what Andrew sold him.
It could have been like, oh, I took the gun from your apartment because I didn't know
how hostile everyone was going to be.
I didn't know, like I'm in Minneapolis.
I've never been here before or whatever.
You know, I need protection.
Maybe it didn't sound threatening the way he said it.
Right.
Exactly.
It probably hadn't have been just because Jeffrey was saying that he didn't want to be
around Andrew.
So I'm assuming that Andrew, again, using that charisma he's always had, was able to
convince Jeffrey to come over to David's.
Jeff then tells his boyfriend that he's going to go to David's to finally get this chat
over with with Andrew, but he was not necessarily concerned that Andrew would harm him.
And he's probably thinking too, like David's there.
Like, I believe there's another person there.
Why would he?
Jeffrey walked out the door at 9 p.m., arriving at David's apartment around 9.45.
When Jeff arrived at David's apartment, he was even more, of course, like you said, at
ease that David was at least there.
So again, this is now Jeffrey and David and Andrew all at David's apartment.
But eventually, David would take the dog for a walk.
During this time, Andrew would actually bludgeon Jeffrey with a hammer while David was gone.
Oh my gosh.
Andrew killed Jeffrey, with David returning home a short time later to find Jeffrey's
bloody body on the floor of his apartment.
That's crazy.
Andrew would eventually roll up Jeffrey's body into the living room carpet.
While David's there.
Andrew and David would stay in the apartment for two days with Jeffrey's body.
It is not sure what has transpired over the course of these days, but it is confirmed
that on at least one occasion, the pair was seen getting onto the elevator of the apartments.
And on another occasion, the two were seen walking at David's dog.
Just a quick side note.
In my mind, I'm thinking now either David's in on this or he's also under threat of Andrew.
And he's now being essentially held hostage and forced to stay there.
And he's too afraid to try to run because of what he saw happen to Jeffrey.
Yeah, of course.
I mean, again, like you're saying, you're under the threat of a gun at all times.
Who knows what that's like?
Do you walk the dog?
The entire time David's dog has to be walked.
They have to go on about their business as usual, at least maybe in Andrew's mind to
save face.
Does he have a gun in his pocket the whole time?
Yeah.
You know, nobody knows.
On May 3rd, 1997, Andrew presumably forced David to get into his vehicle and the two
began driving into David's vehicle.
The vehicle came to a rest at Rush Lake, Minnesota, where David would see an opportunity to escape
from Andrew.
David turned away to run when Andrew shot David in the back, then knocking him to the
ground.
Andrew would turn David over before shooting him in the head, killing him by the lake shore.
Andrew Kunanan had made the decision to head far away from this scene, but not returned
to California.
On May 3rd, which was later that day, Kunanan found himself in Chicago, Illinois, and meanwhile,
police had already discovered David's body.
Returning to David's home some three hours drive away, Jeffrey's body was also discovered
by police.
Police who may have thought that maybe David had been the one to hurt Jeffrey and then somehow
shot himself, realized very quickly that there was no gun at the scene.
They had also realized that David's jeep was missing, and police put a bolo out, which
is a B on the lookout.
So they're looking for a red jeep and a potential suspect.
Very quickly, police realized that their potential suspect was Andrew Kunanan after interviewing
neighbors and friends.
And Jeffrey's boyfriend.
And Jeffrey, yeah, probably.
Yeah.
It was very, very quick.
They realized what was going on.
Kunanan needing to switch vehicles and being without any money would break into the home
of a 72-year-old man by the name of Lee McGlin.
Lee was a well-known real estate developer in Chicago and found his fortune in some of
the tallest buildings in the U.S.
He was also making plans to develop the tallest building in the world.
Lee was known for his philanthropy and was perhaps even more well-known for his love
of helping others.
However, on this day, Lee was forced to face his mortality.
Kunanan bound Lee by his wrists and ankles.
Kunanan would then beat the 72-year-old over the course of many hours.
It seemed that, for whatever reason, Kunanan looked to torture the man, not just kill him.
The FBI would note that duct tape had been wrapped around Lee's face, but that the tape
was placed beneath Lee's nose, allowing him to breathe.
So it wasn't that he was trying to suffocate him.
Showing that Kunanan intended to keep him alive for a long while.
Because of this, the FBI was willing to say that Kunanan and Lee must have known each
other prior to the attack, although there is no direct evidence to this day that this
was the case.
Cause it sounds like a crime of passion, or at least something a little bit more personal
than a break-in.
I just need your money and your car.
If you just wanted the money and the car, you could have just killed the man, or maybe
even not killed the man.
You could have just taken it.
He was a spry 72, but he was 72 years old.
His family also denies that they ever knew Lee to be gay or be intimate with another
man or any of that other said had anything like that.
On May 4th, Kunanan would stab Lee repeatedly with a screwdriver 22 times before his throat
was ultimately slit using a hacksaw.
That is brutal.
That's overkill.
Once friends and family were concerned about not hearing from Lee Miglin, they went looking
on Lee's property.
Eventually they would find his body in his own garage.
It's just pure rage.
But again, this man was clearly very well loved if people were missing him after just
hours, essentially.
I would say less than 24 hours.
Lee's green Lexus was missing, but just down the road, a red Jeep registered to David.
Five days after Lee's body was found, 45-year-old William Bill Reese was at work at Fenns Point
National in Pensville Township, New Jersey.
He got four.
Yeah.
He was gone from Minneapolis.
He went up to Minnesota a little bit, or not Minnesota, but Lake.
Which was three hours away.
Then drove to Chicago in the opposite direction.
Then we were at, now we're at Jersey.
The farthest point from California.
So we're talking about Bill Reese.
Bill loved his wife, his job, which he had worked for over 15 years, and enjoyed civil
worry enactments with friends, which is a-
Oh, that's so wholesome.
So cute.
He was described as a kind man, and he had a real love for life and laughs.
But once again, Qnannan needed to switch vehicles after learning that the FBI had been tracking
Lee's car by peeing the car's phone as Qnannan was using it.
Which again, we have to remind the listeners that this is in the 90s.
Right.
It's not like-
You had car phones.
Okay.
Knowledgeable.
Like, maybe he might not even realize it could be tracked.
Right.
Because you had a landline at home, or you had a car phone.
Yeah.
I mean, that was as mobile, pun intended, as phones got.
So yes, they could track this while Qnannan was driving because he insisted on using it.
They call it, and he's like, hello, what do you want?
He must have thought he was real rich shit sitting in that Lexus with that phone car.
I'm sure he drove with the windows rolled down so everybody could see him using it.
While driving through the cemetery, Qnannan, he saw Bill's 95 red shivvy pickup sitting
outside the caretaker's office.
Qnannan would enter the office, find Bill, where he would shoot him in the head, and
Bill would essentially die almost instantly.
But again, he didn't torture him.
What's the difference between him and Lee?
I don't know, and also what's the difference between giving me your keys at gunpoint and
killing the man?
Like, he just wanted to kill, seems like.
And I think that, maybe sorry, the difference might be the time that had passed from David's
murder.
So my mind, psychologically standpoint speaking, is he's raging, even though he's multiple
hours away from Chicago, that whole drive he's probably hitting the steering wheel in
a rage.
First person he sees, overkill, brutal murder.
Then he has all this time to drive to New Jersey, maybe the someone that has worn off.
But he still thinks that he has to cover his tracks, so to speak, so he kills the man quickly.
I think what's interesting about it too is that the time in between is getting shorter.
You had David, he killed Jeffrey.
He had David with him for, what, three days?
When he tortures Lee for 18 hours, then he just shot Bill.
So is it that he's feeling the pressure?
He's feeling the anxiety, he knows he's going to get caught soon, so it's becoming more
of a spree.
Yeah.
Well, he knows he's being tracked.
Yeah.
Andrew Cunanan would steal Bill's truck, leaving Bill in the office with the radio playing.
It wasn't until Bill did not return home by dinner time that Bill's wife arrived at
the cemetery to check on him.
Oh my god.
She would be the one to find Bill's body.
Cunanan continued to head south, perhaps to find somewhere low-key.
However, it's never been in Andrew's nature to remain low-key.
Right, he's always wanted to be a peacock.
Andrew Cunanan books a hotel in the Normandy Plaza Hotel on May 12th in Miami, Florida
for $20 a night.
Oh.
Sorry, $29 a night.
Hey, big spender.
Big spender.
But in the 90s.
I did the conversion, it's still only like 80 bucks.
Still do, the hotel is like 40 right now.
Well, that's true.
It's not the most lavish hotel, but it does boast that some of the world's most famous
players have stayed there, including Marilyn Monroe, Humphrey Bogard, and Frank Sinatra.
He's like, oh, I've made it.
I would say that it's stupid for Andrew to go to a major city, however, he chooses this
location specifically for its nightlife.
This is in South Beach, Miami, where there is a dense gay population, and Andrew Cunanan
could fit right in hiding in plain sight.
Perhaps blend in, even.
Perhaps even blend in.
Just gonna become one of the locals.
Yeah, he's gonna fake a Cuban accent.
One month after Bill Reese's murder, Andrew Cunanan was officially added to the FBI's
most wanted list.
Oh my god, it's been a month already.
A month.
Since his last killing.
That we know of.
And he's just hanging around people, people are interacting with him every single day.
Every single day.
Probably sleeping with more wealthy men.
Probably using their money.
Yeah, he's going back to his old life.
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So yes, the FBI had added him to the most wanted list after bullet fragments found at
the scene were matched to the bullet fragments at the David Madsen murder.
This is Bill's murder.
So same gun, same bullet.
But even this would not keep Cunanan from walking along Miami's South Beach every night.
Gun in hand.
No, that's horrible.
But that's just like the arrogance is what it is.
It's like, oh, I'm just gonna do whatever the fuck I want again and no one can catch
me.
Yeah, I'm sure he thought like, okay, well, I'll go out this day and if nobody recognizes
me then I'll go out the next day and the next day until you know, somebody gives him
a side eye.
It's been a month and he's like, oh, I got away with it.
On July 7th, Cunanan, low on funds, takes a gold coin previously stolen from Lee Miglin's
residence and walks into a pawn shop.
He then pawns the coin for just $200.
The clerk of the shop only asked for Andrew's full name in current residence, with Cunanan
feeling completely unbeatable at this point, gives his real name and the address of the
Normandy Motel where he's staying.
Wow.
Room number.
Yeah, right.
I'm there from the hours of.
I also murdered three people.
Write that down.
And a month ago.
The clerk did not ask Andrew Cunanan for any forms of identification, simply taking
his word for it.
Nonetheless, the paperwork was filed, eventually ending up on the desk of Miami's police department,
which checks all pawn records for things like stolen goods and guns and stuff.
This paperwork, however, would not immediately be looked at.
Cunanan would make this money last for just one more week.
Okay, what I'm thinking is you're running a hotel for what, $30 a night?
I mean, I guess that's enough, right?
How many more am I living with it?
Yeah, I think that's about it.
The Whistley Cat.
But still.
But you know, he's going out still.
Yeah.
I mean, he can't help it.
But again, he's probably getting everything paid for him when he goes out because he's
charming.
That's true.
So Cunanan would eventually have to check out of the hotel on July 14, 1997.
What was that?
You were two years old.
It was two.
The very next morning, a set of circumstances would ensure that the entire world would know
the name Andrew Cunanan, and even more so the name Gianni Versace.
Giovanni Versace was born on the 2nd of December 1946 to his parents, his mother being a dressmaker
by trade.
Which is adorable.
Gianni was the middle child of four.
One of his siblings had actually passed away at age 12 by an untreated illness, so he would
have had three siblings.
I'm sorry.
Oh no, he has four.
One passed away.
There's two rebating.
Growing up, he had an older brother, Santo, and a younger sister named Donatella.
Gianni grew up embracing his culture as the family lived in the, oh gosh, just bear with
me.
It's Reggio Calabria.
There you go.
Known for its dims Greek and Italian influences.
At a young age, Gianni was helping his mother in her dressmaking, and he had always had
a keen eye for design.
At first he thought he'd become an architect, but found that he did have a true gift in
fashion.
At age 26, he moved to Milan to pursue his career in fashion.
He first collaborated with the design company, Gianni, for his youth engineer line, Biblos.
And then he moved to another collab titled, Complyce.
And soon in 1978, Gianni would introduce his first collection and would open a boutique
before his first fashion show in Milan.
How cool.
I know, right?
He's like mid-20s.
I don't have an eye for that kind of thing.
Wild.
Gianni was known for his bold use of color and pushing the boundaries of sexuality.
Gianni was used to sewing women's wear, and thus often tailored men's suits with stitching
that accentuated the male form.
Wow.
Right?
So that's why it was so unique and why it was so revolutionary.
He was not designing women's wear, he was designing men's wear, but that shape the
male body.
That's really cool.
And especially for that time period, there's plenty of people, men, that like to dress
differently.
Like, you know, so many men's clothing that you see today is all the same cut, the same
fit, except for like big and tall.
You know, they're most usually the same style on the same fit.
And that's really cool that it was super unique.
And no wonder he's so famous.
Essentially Gianni laid the form, or the platform down for things like slim fit.
You know what I mean?
You know, jeans, if you think about it, you know, things like that, little influences.
We are skinny jeans gals through and through.
Oh my God.
I cannot get away from the skinny jeans.
Oh my gosh.
Although I have bought some carpenter jeans recently and I don't hate them.
So Gianni actually would design and make his own materials and fabrics.
Wow.
Like he's actually named specific fabrics, blends of fabrics.
Cool.
Yeah, I mean he's like, yeah.
He's a genius.
He's the god of it.
Creative genius.
Gianni would add nodes to his Greek heritage by incorporating gods and goddesses on his
designs, one of the more famous one being that of Medusa.
Gianni had rivalries at the time, especially with fashion designer Giorgio Armani saying
that quote, Armani dresses the wife, but Versace dresses the mistress.
And quote.
Oh, look at the look.
Gianni created his business around his family.
His brother Santo was the president and his sister Donatella was the vice president, making
her husband overseer of menswear.
So it was a whole family affair.
That's honestly really cool too because he provided for them as well, not just for himself.
He's like, hey, like I want to bring you guys in on this.
Yeah.
This is really cool.
It's an empire.
Yeah, definitely.
In 1982, Gianni would meet the man that would change his life forever, model Antonio D'Amico.
It was said that Gianni and Antonio loved each other very much and traveled and worked
together most of their life together.
It was when the two had traveled to Miami for work when Gianni told Antonio that he would
never want to leave.
He loved the excitement, the heat, the culture and the scene of South Beach.
Gianni would purchase an oceanfront property at the time worth under just $3 million, which
is a lot.
So the property was dubbed Casina Casurina, which was located on South Beach in 1992,
where the couple would eventually live permanently.
Gianni Versace bought the house for $2.95 million in 1992.
He would restore the original name and actually return it to private use because it had been,
I think, turned into a hotel.
He created eight bedrooms, two kitchens, three sitting rooms, 10 bathrooms, a bar, a library,
and four living rooms.
Goals.
Right?
He installed modern systems, including central air conditioning.
In 1993, Versace bought the adjoining Riviera Hotel to the south for $3.7 million, which
he would then tear down to make a pool and a garden area for the house.
Could you imagine buying a $3 million house just to tear it down?
That is baller.
That's his fucking ball.
Whoa.
The pool was known as the renowned Thousand Mosaic Pool, adorned with thousands of 24-carat
gold tiles imported from Italy.
Geez.
Doing the damn thing.
Versace had actually commissioned Sir Roy Strong, which is an English art historian and
landscape designer, to work on the garden to create the garden.
He had also created gardens at Versace's Villa Fortinelli on Lake Como in Italy.
And Gianni loved this place, and the locals loved him too.
He would sometimes walk down to the South Beach streets and often wouldn't be hassled
as much.
One of his daily tasks would be to collect the newest magazines, and regularly he had
an assistant do this for him most mornings.
On the morning of July 15th, however, Gianni wanted to make the morning walk alone at about
8.45 in the morning.
Gianni reached the café for the daily articles, purchased a newspaper, and then began to make
the walk back.
When Gianni reached the gate of his home, he would be shot twice in his back, as his
back was turned to in a salient.
What?
How did I not know this?
It's pretty intense.
Witnesses who looked into the direction of the shots said that a man dressed in a grey
t-shirt, black shorts, a white hat, and carrying a backpack was fleeing the scene by the time
that they saw what was going on.
Antonio inside the mansion heard something outside, and he could see through the stained
glass of stairs that there was a commotion.
But not truly being able to see, he ran downstairs and would open the gates, where he saw his
partner of 15 years laying in a pool of blood on the front steps of their home.
Oh my god, that's scary.
Antonio said about this moment, quote, I saw Gianni lying on the steps with blood around
him.
At that point, everything went dark.
I was pulled away.
I didn't see anymore, end quote.
Paramedics arrived on scene where they took Gianni Versace to the hospital, where he would
later be pronounced dead, just 40 minutes after the shots.
Okay, this is literally another John Lennon story because I did not know that he was
dead.
I swear I thought this guy was alive.
The company's still.
Yeah.
Oh my god, how horrible.
Meanwhile, police scoured the area looking for clues on who this gunman might be.
There in a nearby parking garage was Bill Reese's 1995 Chevy truck.
And it, articles of clothing that matched the description that the witnesses gave.
So he changed.
Or he just took his clothes off.
Run around naked.
They're not looking for a naked guy.
He's naked somewhere.
They realize now that Q Nanon was in Miami.
Other witnesses stated that Q Nanon had hopped into a taxi before fleeing the scene.
Hearing this, police declared an immediate shutdown of the city.
Yeah.
Of Miami.
He was a huge, hugely famous person that just got assassinated.
Residents were encouraged to stay in place, lock their doors and stay off the streets
while police search for Q Nanon.
Right.
And they knew it was him.
Oh, because of the car.
Yeah.
Q Nanon would not be seen for another eight days.
Oh my god, that's so scary.
Like what do you do?
Wouldn't you lift the stay in place?
I wouldn't leave my house.
Right?
The homeboy's just running around naked somewhere.
What are you gonna do?
It's so bad.
A caretaker on an ocean drive marina was inspecting houseboats one by one, making sure that all
was secure and good.
But something caught his eye.
Inside one of the houseboats, Andrew Q Nanon had sought refuge, a mere seven minutes away
from Versace's mansion.
He had been there the whole time.
For eight days.
Oh my god.
When the caretaker shouted to alert the man that he was trespassing, a shot was fired.
Frightened of being killed, the caretaker ran to phone the police on his findings.
The police immediately thinking this must be Q Nanon.
Police respond to the call and quickly surround the houseboat, ordering Q Nanon to come out
with his hands in the air and surrender to law enforcement.
This reminds me so much of the Boston Marathon bomber guy the way it played out.
Oh my gosh, I remember watching that on the news.
He was literally hiding in a boat.
In the boat.
Yeah.
But I mean, I remember us seeing those aerial shots with the helicopters and there was like
blood smearing on the sides of the boats because we had been shot.
We had to cover that one.
We definitely do.
Sometimes.
So after a long standoff, police decided to enter the houseboat in order to forcefully
remove Q Nanon.
There in the houseboat, lying on the bed, was Andrew Q Nanon.
He had taken his own life by a single gunshot to the head.
He had used the very same gun he used throughout the entire killings free.
So initially, the houseboat guy, when he shouted and he heard a fire, he thought that he was
being fired upon, but it was actually Andrew Q Nanon taking his own life.
Honestly, that kind of peaves me.
Doesn't it all?
A spree killing, right, is defined by the Death Investigation Training Academy as quote,
a spree killing involving a string of at least three murders in several locations arising
from a key participating incident that continues to fuel the motivation to kill.
In this case, Q Nanon's apparent hatred for gay men.
The murders occur fairly close in time, but the timeframe lasts significantly longer than
that of a mass murder, and locations are further apart.
The victims can be targeted or random, end quote.
It was also insinuated that Andrew Q Nanon was a sociopath, a sociopath being a person
with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme, antisocial attitudes and behaviors
and lack of consciousness.
So what we say when, often time we come across that word, sociopath or psychopath, it's
due to a personality disorder.
That is the diagnosis, not one or the other.
It's tendencies that put them into those categories.
Yes.
Which we now know, again, could potentially be antisocial personality disorder in Andrew
Q Nanon's case, but the world may never know.
Or narcissistic personality disorder.
Yeah.
Andrew Q Nanon's true motives have never been revealed, as that knowledge died with
him.
But what we can say is that Andrew Q Nanon clearly struggled with his place in the world.
The lifestyle he wanted to live was unattainable by conventional matters, as he wasn't essentially
going to work hard for it.
He was just going to take it.
He was too rebellious and self-centered enough to share deep connections with others, which
we talk about narcissistic tendencies, right?
They're kind of apparent.
Or was he just angry?
After Gianni's death, his sister Donatella took over the family design.
While some thought that she would never live up to her brother's work, Donatella has proven
to strengthen the family's name and has created a complete empire in the Versace name.
Ooh, got a full body in here.
Donatella and Antonio had it out a bit after Gianni's death, as Donatella had the majority
of Gianni's estate, and Antonio would essentially have to fight for his right as Gianni's partner.
Again, this is before same-sex marriage was legal, and that's part of the reason why I
think it should have always been legal.
It's for situations like this, where you spent 15 years with your partner and you have no
legal rights to anything you accumulated over the time you were together.
Because you weren't married.
Yep.
Like it was a choice.
Ah, sad.
So yes, it was ruled that Antonio could stay in Gianni's other residence with certain
restrictions.
And in 2018, a miniseries titled The Assassination of Gianni Versace, American Crime Story, was
released on FX.
The show received both praise and scrutiny for the portrayal of Gianni and his partner,
even by Antonio.
Quote, there has been so much written and said about the murder and thousands of suppositions,
but not a trace of reality.
Antonio expressed concern that the actor who portrayed him, which was Ricky Martin, did
not reach out to him in order to get a deeper understanding of the relationship between
him and Gianni.
Which he would think that that would be part of your job.
And if you're portraying a real person, at least Antonio would have the choice of saying,
you can talk to a source or you can talk to me personally.
Right.
But to not even reach out, come on Ricky Martin, do better.
You're living la vie de loca for sure.
Sorry.
Welcome to New York City and a funky cheap motel.
All right, I'm done.
He's talking about Andrew Cunanan.
Oh my God.
Antonio said, quote, the picture of Ricky Martin holding the body and his arms is ridiculous.
Maybe it's the director's poetic license, but that is not how I reacted.
And quote, Antonio would describe the clip of the show that he found Gianni as looking
like the famous statue La Pita de Michelangelo.
Yeah, with the stab wound on the side.
Yeah, which is Mary holding Jesus in her arms and that's the way it was supposed to look.
But if you think about Gianni, maybe he might have been a religious person, but if you're
really going to duplicate a piece of art, don't you think that it would emulate something
like Greek gods and goddesses or Italian influences?
And I get Michelangelo's Italian, but you know, it's just a little more up there.
Yeah.
It seems like low hanging fruit or, you know, just ask the person that's still around to
tell you.
And it's the courtesy you can do.
Exactly.
That's going to be hard to see a documentary portrayed not only about your person's life,
but your life as well.
Yeah.
And not be able to give any help for facts.
Think about the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you.
And now think about Hollywood making it into something.
And not even asking you what it was like.
That's what that's like.
It's awful.
Unfortunately, Antonia would pass away in December 2022 at the age of 63, which is so
young.
That's really young.
But as far as I can tell, I don't think he ever married.
I think he dated long term, but yeah.
Well, Andrew Cunanan does not deserve final notes.
Only Gianni Versace does.
So that is Andrew Cunanan.
I, again, am baffled over here.
I thought that Gianni Versace was alive.
I am silly.
I need to get up on my pop culture, I guess.
Your fashionistas?
Yeah.
But that story just from start to finish is just as wild.
And we had kind of peppered in a couple of suggestions for disorders.
But I think it has a lot of, and we always say that it has to do with like a poor childhood,
low self-esteem, things like that that happen when you're younger.
And I think that his dad not only not being around for the majority of his childhood, but
then up and leaving at the drop of a hat really, really affected him.
And of course, he not only had to endure maybe that verbal, any kind of abuse that he did,
but he had to watch his mom go through that as well and maybe his siblings.
And that's traumatic in and itself.
And all those things can cause a dissociation of reality later in life, which is really
true for people with antisocial personality disorder.
I'm wondering if there wasn't something underlying originally, right?
Like you said, antisocial personality disorder.
But there's this just overall aura of defiance around Andrew.
And I don't, did it start out as a defiance disorder?
And did it not get treated or seen at all?
Or maybe if it got stifled.
Yeah.
And just the needing, of course he had Liz and for a short time there, he had Jeffrey
that were validating those feelings, being some of the only people that he probably felt
validated in to his core.
Other than that, it seems like a lot of bouncing around to different, I would say, social groups
to get that validation.
It also seems like Liz and Jeffrey were what they could be for him for as long as they
could be.
And a certain time comes in your life where you mentally develop and you grow up and it
almost seems like they kind of kept growing with their emotional maturity and Andrew didn't.
And maybe that's what caused that disconnect between them.
And that's obviously got to be another thing.
I feel like maybe there was an emotional stunt in his brain and that's what kept him from
becoming a mature, functioning, emotional, functioning adult and having all that rage
develop because of it.
Yeah.
Having to deal with this Peter Pan syndrome, if you will, and wanting to remain young and
hot and taking care of always.
I mean, you hit the nail on the head right there because that's what I see.
I see him not having that childhood enough for longer.
He had to grow up very, very fast.
I mean, he was going down to these very potentially seedy areas even in high school trying to
stay taken care of financially and emotionally and all that stuff.
And when you have someone else taking care of all those things for you, then it gives
you an excuse to not do it yourself.
Like emotionally and mature.
He didn't want to grow up.
Right.
But that's a wild story.
Thank you for bringing that.
I did not know that case at all.
The last name just sounds kind of familiar, but nope, did not know it.
So thanks for bringing that.
You're welcome.
I hope you guys enjoyed this one.
Yeah.
I'm excited to never talk about Andrew Canaan and ever again.
Perfect.
I can go to bed easy now.
Don't have to become nightmares.
Just a quick reminder, we do have that new Patreon set up.
There are still technically four tiers open.
You can join any one of the three that are $5.
They're all still there.
And then the number, the first one is $3.
So the $3 one is going to get you those ad free episodes.
The $5 will get you ad free episodes as well as the bonus episode every month.
Takes just a couple minutes to sign up.
And yeah, that's pretty much all we got.
Yeah.
Anything else?
That's it.
Okay.
We'll see you guys soon.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
Love you.
I appreciate it.
Thank you so much.
Thanks, Lilly.
Love you.
She likes to show up here.
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